e-cigs?
Mike Turco
things they'd care to share. Have you come across a good quality
product? If you've used these as a quit smoking aid (as in getting off
nicotine all together), how has that worked out for you? Also, if
you've used this product for a period of time, has it helped to reduce
coughing and breathlessness?
I bought a "smokeless cigarette starter kit" yesterday and started
using it. So far, this is what I see: "electronic cigarettes" are an
effective replacement for regular cigarettes in regards to getting a
nicotine fix. Better than the gum and the patch, it seems.
Quality-wise, the product I purchased isn't all that great.
Puff-to-puff, you never know how hard to hit the thing, and some
cartridges last longer than others. As these things are sealed units,
I imagine that once the battery goes you have to buy a whole new kit.
So far, so good (I think). I haven't had a "real" cigarette for almost
24 hours now. This thing has totally replaced "smoking" and I've not
had to deal with any cravings whatsoever. It's kind of like, "Good
news, I don't snort coke anymore. I shoot it up instead." I guess the
same story goes for all nic replacements.
Mike
FlatIronMike
not getting smoke, you are still taking a drug that is highly
addictive. More importantly, since it is like a sickerette, what do
you do it you are out and it runs out? Jones it until you get more of
the stuff or just move back to a sickerette as you are not breaking
the habit of holding, lighting or smoking and that is part of getting
smober.
You might find this works, I just feel it's just playing with fire. I
have used several methods to get smober and I can say this quit, which
I started with Chantix, has been the strongest I have ever had.
FlatironMike
Two years, eight months, four weeks, one day, 18 hours, 3 minutes and
43 seconds. 20055 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,016.26. Life saved:
9 weeks, 6 days, 15 hours, 15 minutes.
MsConserv
I think the best thing about these ecigs are that they give you
something to do w/your hands and put something in your mouth.
"Replacement therapy" so to speak. Anything that gets you over the
hump is worth it. It doesn't matter how you quit - just quit.
Hugs,
Pam
em
Thanks, you raise some good points. As I see these e-cigs, so far,
they are simply a replacement for cigarettes and I'll have to quit the
e-cigs too, eventually, just as one has to stop wearing "the patch". I
tried chantix once and it was a terrible experience for me. I think
it's great that chantix helped you. (I am who started this thread, by
the way. My ISP doesn't seem to be doing to well with their news
server so I switched over to google.) -- Mike
Eldon
If you want to continue ingesting nicotine in a laughable fashion
while doing less damage to your lungs, this is probably the way to go.
I think they're ludicrous, but maybe I'm a nicotine Luddite. I haven't
bought an iPod yet either.
So what color LED are you going to have on the end of your little
rechargeable plastic cylinder?
If you want to make a transition from smoking to non-smoking, then
switch to patches. They do a whole different thing than inhalation,
yet quell the cravings to some extent.
PolarBear
>
> - Show quoted text -
remember that the physical addiction is only 72hours long, after that
its all in the mind and habbit.
I once looked at those e-cigs in the store and was thinking about it,
but I realized that this would just get me into another addiction but
not really change the habbit and behaviour of smoking. Until the habit
is not broken it will be very difficult to stay sobber.
Mike, what ever works best for you to break the addiction from
nicotine is what is best for you.
HappyPolarBear
Bruce Watson
I'm afraid it's the wave of the future.
Suppose a drug was invented that did nothing much but addict.
Now fix a high price to it. Then step out of the way as
fools beat a path to your door.
>So what color LED are you going to have on the end of your little
>rechargeable plastic cylinder?
I call it the "Suck-O-Meter."
>If you want to make a transition from smoking to non-smoking, then
>switch to patches. They do a whole different thing than inhalation,
>yet quell the cravings to some extent.
I believe you're right. It's too much like the real cigarette--
the quick hit, the 8 seconds to the brain. Best to use something
like the gum or the patch. They're much less like smoking.
I was asked why, if I thought nicotine was so addictive, then
why aren't people hooked on the gum or the patch. I don't
know about the patch, but Don Imus (the radio guy) is
still using nicorette some 10-plus years after he quit
cigarettes.
FlatIronMike
side effects that can not work for some people. I do know though that
sometimes it is due to not taking the pills with food as the food
helps to balance the release of the drug, I think. Also, after about
3 weeks I skipped my evening dose by accident and realized I did not
miss it and took the rest of the 90 days doing one pill a day. That
might be an option if the side effects were bad but not horrid. Again
just my 3-cent opinion which I am known for.
I *am* remiss in not suggesting to you that you look through our FAQs
which are kept at www.quitbuddies.org, our official 'unofficial
website'. Stick around and that WILL make sense. <G> The FAQs do
have a lot of great information on how to live a smober life and know
that you are better because you are not addicted to smoke any longer.
FlatironMike
Two years, eight months, four weeks, one day, 22 hours, 21 minutes and
18 seconds. 20058 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,017.34. Life saved:
9 weeks, 6 days, 15 hours, 30 minutes.
Bruce Watson
Mike Turco <mi...@nomiketurcospam.com> wrote:
>
>So far, so good (I think). I haven't had a "real" cigarette for almost
>24 hours now. This thing has totally replaced "smoking" and I've not
>had to deal with any cravings whatsoever. It's kind of like, "Good
>news, I don't snort coke anymore. I shoot it up instead." I guess the
>same story goes for all nic replacements.
Keep us informed on your progress. If it helps you to
quit smoking, it's a good thing.
If you find yourself still using the e-cigarette some months
or years from now, what do you use to quit using it?
Eldon
This is not technically correct. It takes 72 hours to detox, but that
doesn't eliminate the brain chemistry changes (rewiring, so to speak)
that the nicotine addiction caused. Those spontaneous cravings that
occur months later are not just "in the mind," but "in the brain
circuitry." And that isn't just my imagination talking. ;-)
Eldon
> In article <a54924bd-efa4-4477-93ef-5acd467a3...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
Exactly. When I quit with patches years ago, I experienced some mental
weirdness and disorientation, but the trickle of nicotine took the
edge off. If Zyban had been available then, and I had used both, I
think it would have been pretty painless.
>
> I was asked why, if I thought nicotine was so addictive, then
> why aren't people hooked on the gum or the patch. I don't
> know about the patch, but Don Imus (the radio guy) is
> still using nicorette some 10-plus years after he quit
> cigarettes.
Some people do continue using patches or gum indefinitely. If you
recall that Psychology Today article you disagreed with, the two
doctors thought that was the best some people could do. I think that
probably applies to the <10% at the most addictive end of the bell
curve, and I also think it beats the hell out of smoking.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>This is not technically correct. It takes 72 hours to detox, but that
>doesn't eliminate the brain chemistry changes (rewiring, so to speak)
>that the nicotine addiction caused. Those spontaneous cravings that
>occur months later are not just "in the mind," but "in the brain
>circuitry." And that isn't just my imagination talking. ;-)
That's right. Withdrawal ends in a matter of hours (24 to 72).
Nicotine is effectively completely out of the system. After that
it's all craving. Craving is caused by the surplus of receptors
nicotine use created. It takes time for the receptors to reduce to
what they were before smoking. That can take as long as it took
to form them.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><a54924bd-efa4-4477-93ef-5acd467a3...@k19g2000yqc.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
I don't think Don Imus was at what you call the "most addictive end
of the bell curve." I might be wrong. I believe in his case it's
just misinformation and laziness. I believe he thinks he can't
function without nicotine. We all could before we started using
the drug. We all can after.
Janis Joplin said she couldn't do her art without Jack Daniels.
All junkies think alike. They all rationalize. They are all in denial.
Eldon
> In article <44d41ca1-41ed-4a54-b2f9-ab1815d65...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
Forty-plus years? Oh shit!!!!!
But thanks for agreeing with me anyway. But let's get a bit semantic.
Couldn't we call those later cravings "withdrawal symptoms"? This is
an important concept to me personally, because I blithely thought I
should feel just fine a few weeks after I detoxed. When things were
still going downhill after three fucking MONTHS, I thought I must be
unique. But after a little research, I discovered I wasn't.
Eldon
> In article <b6d30314-1079-44ab-8425-7b1c0595c...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Janis mainly drank Southern Comfort, a liqueur made of Bourbon
Whiskey, and shot heroin. I used to occasionally walk past her house
in Marin County on a public trail. She would emerge and scream at
people for "invading her space" or some such shit. She was a sad,
nasty-tempered person who was probably happier after she died.
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
I disagree - this is entirely person dependant and nothing to do with
brain chemistry... I quit 8 months ago and haven't experienced any
cravings whatsoever since the first couple of weeks of my quit ... you
can convince your own mind of anything!
em
>
> If you want to continue ingesting nicotine in a laughable fashion
> while doing less damage to your lungs, this is probably the way to
> go.
When I first saw the thing I thought about how silly it looked. A
little tube that lights up when you suck on it, and then you exhale
smoke. It made me realize how silly it is to smoke cigarettes.
Cigarettes do exactly the same thing.
Eldon
Yeah, I thought it must be a satire or a videogame thing. I had no
idea it would become an industry. Why couldn't the Chinese be content
just to make counterfeit cigarettes, anyway?
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><44d41ca1-41ed-4a54-b2f9-ab1815d65...@a31g2000yqn.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >doesn't eliminate the brain chemistry changes (rewiring, so to speak)
>> >that the nicotine addiction caused. Those spontaneous cravings that
>> >occur months later are not just "in the mind," but "in the brain
>> >circuitry." And that isn't just my imagination talking. ;-)
>>
>> That's right. Withdrawal ends in a matter of hours (24 to 72).
>> Nicotine is effectively completely out of the system. After that
>> it's all craving. Craving is caused by the surplus of receptors
>> nicotine use created. It takes time for the receptors to reduce to
>> what they were before smoking. That can take as long as it took
>> to form them.
>
>Forty-plus years? Oh shit!!!!!
No, nothing like that. At what point did you start smoking
for the drug and not for blowing smoke rings?
We all start out experimenting. We try different brands before
we settle on one--brand loyalty. That's a sure milestone for addiction.
But not the only one. For me it was about 5 years into a 15-year
smoking career.
By 3 years after I quit, I had very few, very mild cravings. By
5 years, I felt like I had never smoked.
>But thanks for agreeing with me anyway. But let's get a bit semantic.
>Couldn't we call those later cravings "withdrawal symptoms"? This is
>an important concept to me personally, because I blithely thought I
>should feel just fine a few weeks after I detoxed. When things were
>still going downhill after three fucking MONTHS, I thought I must be
>unique. But after a little research, I discovered I wasn't.
What I understand withdrawal to be is the reaction of the body
to the decrease in the drug as it is metabolized. The urge is
to replenish the level to an accustomed amount.
Craving, on the other hand, results from the mismatch of the numbers
of receptors in the brain to the reduced level (total absence if CT)
available to satisfy those extra receptors created by addiction.
It's more than semantics.
I wasn't completely free after detox either. The program I was on
said as much. They told us what to expect. They never told us
we would be just fine after 5 days--the name of the program--they
told us cravings would continue well past the point nicotine
completely left the system. But they said they would become less
frequent and less intense. Which they did.
Was it really "downhill"? I can appreciate your disappointment is
wasn't all over in a few days, that it would take longer, but
actually downhill?
Could it have been events in your life other than quitting causing
the "downhill" thing?
For me, smoking had been dragging me downhill, so that when
I quit, I was level but I had been going downhill so long, level
looked like up.
The reason cravings continue is that the wiring has to go back
to normal and it does so one receptor at a time. You were expecting
that to happen at once and was disappointed when it took time. Months.
For me it took years.
Eldon
Yes, it's person-dependent, but no, you can't convince your own mind
that withdrawal symptoms are imaginary or "mental phenomena."
You got lucky. Some people get crazy.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><b6d30314-1079-44ab-8425-7b1c0595c...@m26g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
>>
I heard it was Jack Daniels. But thanks for that correction.
It doesn't change anything. She was a junkie who thought her
drugs were helping her. Cigarette smokers make the same mistake.
It's called "junkie thinking" here. The list is frequently posted.
Smokers are afraid they will not be able to function normally without
nicotine. They're afraid to quit because they fear they'll never
be able to enjoy things like good food, a drink, etc. things they
closely associate with a nicotine fix.
I believe that's the greatest impediment to quitting. Not laziness.
Not procrastination. Ignorance. Simply not knowing any better. We
all know our senses of taste and smell sharpen after quitting
and a good meal is even better. We can better enjoy all the other
things we do because we are no longer dragged down by the drug and
the "tar" and carbon monoxide.
They forget they were just fine before they started smoking and can
become like that again. You really can go back.
em
> If you find yourself still using the e-cigarette some months
> or years from now, what do you use to quit using it?
Honestly, sucking on this tube, lighting up a little red light,
getting nicotine into my lungs and blowing out fake "smoke" is so much
like real smoking that I'm really concerned about how well or whether
this is going to work. It is a lot like saying, "Hey, I quit drinking
beer" by switching from beer to wine.
I bought a handful of refill cartridges yesterday that will probably
last until the end of the week. Thought I'd play things one day at a
time up until then.
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Trust me there was no luck involved in my quit - there never is with
this addiction! Nott quite understand your comment but withdrawal
'symptoms' in months beyond quitting are triggered by your sub-
conscieous mind making associations with past events - purely mental
not real.
Eldon
I was talking about the duration of symptoms (cravings and other
miserable feelings). They may be partially triggered by the
subconscious, but to some extent, they are biochemical. And they are
different for each person. So your experience isn't applicable to
everybody.
Bruce Watson
There have been people who have quit smoking by using NRT and
kept on using it. The president for one. I don't know from whom
he bums his occasional cigarette but each one of his Secret
Service people who personally guard him are never without Nicorette
should he need one.
I don't know anything about the gum (or the patch). They didn't
exist when I quit. I don't know what the patch feels like or the
gum tastes like. And I never will. Isn't there a recommended
procedure of use for both on the package. I mean, shouldn't the
president, a year or more later now, supposed to be off the gum?
The begs the question what he should do to break his addiction
to the gum. The patch? Something else?
I fear the same thing will happen with the e-cigarette. It happened
with the real cigarette. Will users look down at the thing in their
hands and say WTF? Will they continue to use it for decades?
I also fear, even more so, that people who were put off by the
irritating smoking and the threat of disease and never took up
smoking tobacco cigarettes will think they have a pass to use
the e-cigarette once again underestimating the awesome power of
nicotine to addict.
There's no "tar," no CO2, no Polonium-210 but there's still nicotine.
And it's the most addictive drug on the planet. And it doesn't do
much of anything except enslave its users.
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
And neither is yours, all depends what you believe, what you read and
what you convince yourself!
DutchVanAfoort
going ok. (((Karen)))
"Karen" <> schreef in bericht ...
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>>
>> > If you want to continue ingesting nicotine in a laughable fashion
>> > while doing less damage to your lungs, this is probably the way to
>> > go.
>>
>> When I first saw the thing I thought about how silly it looked. A
>> little tube that lights up when you suck on it, and then you exhale
>> smoke. It made me realize how silly it is to smoke cigarettes.
>> Cigarettes do exactly the same thing.
>
>Yeah, I thought it must be a satire or a videogame thing. I had no
>idea it would become an industry. Why couldn't the Chinese be content
>just to make counterfeit cigarettes, anyway?
I think you're both underestimating the potential for this thing
to really take hold. It's nicotine we're talking about. And it's
inhaled nicotine. The fastest way to the brain. Like crack the
reinforcement is almost immediate and therefore compelling.
When smokers try the tobacco cigarette they have to be very
careful not to take in too much smoke or they lapse into a coughing
spasm and turn green. It takes practice and patience and dedication.
With the e-cigarette there's none of that. Maybe the bitterness of
the nicotine (it's an alkaloid) but that's masked by the flavorings.
The cutoff commonly used to define a smoker is someone who
still smokes and has smoked a minimum of 100 cigarettes. There
has to be a cutoff somewhere. This is just a convenient definition.
But it could actually be the number one has to smoke to become addicted.
With the e-cigarette, it could take a few dozen puffs, about what one
gets from a couple of tobacco cigarettes. It could addict quicker.
It could sucker in people who would never get close to using tobacco.
Let's see how it marketed: "All the 'pleasure' of smoking without
any of the irritation of smoke or risk of fatal disease."
Nevermind the "pleasure" is just the relief the user gets from
the drug-caused craving and withdrawal which is confused with
real pleasure which does not involve a drug.
People who have no experience with nicotine think it can't be
addictive because it doesn't cause intoxication. They don't know
those properties do not correlate.
And so they might think they can ride the tiger and not be eaten.
When they find out they're wrong, it's too late. They're hooked
and go on to rationalize they need it to function--just like with
tobacco.
em
> There's no "tar," no CO2, no Polonium-210 but there's still nicotine.
> And it's the most addictive drug on the planet. And it doesn't do
> much of anything except enslave its users.
Speaking only for myself, my caffeine addiction is worse than my
smoking addiction. I have "quit smoking" for months and years at a
time. (Two years once.) Caffeine, though, forget it.
As an aside, what are the negative side effects of nicotine, in and of
itself?
em
> There's no "tar," no CO2, no Polonium-210 but there's still nicotine.
> And it's the most addictive drug on the planet. And it doesn't do
> much of anything except enslave its users.
Speaking only for myself, my caffeine addiction is worse than my
Karen
((((Robin)))
I am being a naughty girl - bored lunch hour at work ;-)
Its going real good thanks just need to get hubby there too now and
life will be perfect hugs and kisses to Holland from Canada :-)
em
In answer to my own question:
http://www.drugs.com/sfx/nicotine-side-effects.html
DutchVanAfoort
"Karen" <> schreef in bericht ...
>
> - Show quoted text -
>
((((Robin)))
Eldon
I see. So why don't you rilly, truly BELIEVE you can smoke just one
cigarette once in awhile and do that?
Just kidding, of course. But that's the logical extension of what you
just said.
Eldon
Yes, ithe most important problems seem to be cardiovascular. And hey,
if you want to puff on those little e-cigs, have at it. You will be
far better off than you would be sucking smoke out of the real ones.
But excuse me if I snicker.
Bruce Watson
em <turco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> There's no "tar," no CO2, no Polonium-210 but there's still nicotine.
>> And it's the most addictive drug on the planet. And it doesn't do
>> much of anything except enslave its users.
>
>Speaking only for myself, my caffeine addiction is worse than my
>smoking addiction. I have "quit smoking" for months and years at a
>time. (Two years once.) Caffeine, though, forget it.
You're using nicotine with the e-cigarette. You may have "quit
smoking" as you put it, but you're still on the drug.
>As an aside, what are the negative side effects of nicotine, in and of
>itself?
It raises the pulse rate. If it's true we have only so many heartbeats
in a lifetime:
http://www.csgnetwork.com/avglifeexpfromhr.html
. . . then maybe we want to conserve them and work on a
very low resting pulse rate:
http://www.patcroce.com/fitness/resting.html
It's linked to circulatory disease:
DutchVanAfoort
That's just the shit you need in the back of your mind. 'Kidding or not.
Maybe my quit *is* so strong I *can* have one or two and get away with it.'
You need to be right so bad you don't even see you are fucking with people's
quits. Do you?
"Eldon" <> schreef in bericht ...
Bruce Watson
em <turco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> > There's no "tar," no CO2, no Polonium-210 but there's still nicotine.
>> > And it's the most addictive drug on the planet. And it doesn't do
>> > much of anything except enslave its users.
>>
>> Speaking only for myself, my caffeine addiction is worse than my
>> smoking addiction. I have "quit smoking" for months and years at a
>> time. (Two years once.) Caffeine, though, forget it.
>>
>> As an aside, what are the negative side effects of nicotine, in and of
>> itself?
>
>In answer to my own question:
>http://www.drugs.com/sfx/nicotine-side-effects.html
So what does nicotine do that you want to chance experiencing
those things?
It must do something really good to compensate for:
Acne; back pain; burning or irritation of the mouth, nose, or eyes;
changes in taste and smell; constipation; cough; earache; flushing
of the face; gas; headache; hoarseness; indigestion; irritability;
joint pain; mouth sores; nasal ulcers or blisters; nausea; nose
bleed; numbness of the mouth; painful menstruation; runny nose;
sinus irritation; sneezing; sore throat; stuffy nose; tingling;
tooth disorder; watery eyes.
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
No, I made a firm vow about 8 months ago that smoking was not an
option, not one not ever - maybe that's why I got "lucky" and maybe
with a thought process like yours thats why you are still struggling
with withdrawal- I wish you all the luck in the world Eldon, you
obviously need it!
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>I see. So why don't you rilly, truly BELIEVE you can smoke just one
>cigarette once in awhile and do that?
>
>Just kidding, of course. But that's the logical extension of what you
>just said.
I recently thought about that. Why would I want to smoke?
It really wasn't doing much for me, if at all, if it ever did.
There would be no point. Even if it didn't restart the addiction
and send me back to nearly 3 packs a day, why would I do it?
Maybe for $100 per cigarette. Or maybe not. Make it $1,000
and I'll smoke as many as you've got money.
I would probably, if enough were smoked, become physically
addicted. But we know the physical addiction is minor compared
to the psychological
But I now know the mechanism which I did not know when I smoked
(and 48 million smokers in the US still don't know). That it's just
a hamster exercise wheel that doesn't get you anywhere--an
endless cycle of craving and relief caused by the drug.
It gets the tobacco companies somewhere--the luxury cars they paid for
with your money.
FlatIronMike
think I always said to myself I will not smoke until .... And with
that back door slightly ajar, The Reason whatever the fork it was,
sooner or later showed up and did me in. I just decided this time
that I had smoked enough and that I needed my health much more than
feeding an addiction I was no longer at all in love with. Making that
connection in my head really did set me up to succeed this time beyond
my wildest expectations. I think a lot of the vacillation in many
posts are due to not making that sort of pact with oneself from the
beginning of the quit.
FlatironMike
Two years, eight months, four weeks, two days, 18 hours, 14 minutes
and 57 seconds. 20075 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,022.31. Life
saved: 9 weeks, 6 days, 16 hours, 55 minutes.
Eldon
> Just kidding? Way to plant little seeds of doubt in someone's mind Eldon.
> That's just the shit you need in the back of your mind. 'Kidding or not.
> Maybe my quit *is* so strong I *can* have one or two and get away with it.'
> You need to be right so bad you don't even see you are fucking with people's
> quits. Do you?
Awww.... what a delicate and fragile Dutch boy you are... As a safety
measure, why don't you go stick your finger in your psychic dike to
prevent a relapse? Perhaps that will make you feel safe from imminent
temptation.
Eldon
It's not a thought process, and I'm not struggling, dear. But I had to
do some biochemical ameliorations to get where I am. If you didn't,
then count yourself lucky, but don't discount the possibility that
it's more difficult for some people than others.
Eldon
> In article <08142198-97e0-4171-9f65-e3467483c...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >I see. So why don't you rilly, truly BELIEVE you can smoke just one
> >cigarette once in awhile and do that?
>
> >Just kidding, of course. But that's the logical extension of what you
> >just said.
>
> I recently thought about that. Why would I want to smoke?
> It really wasn't doing much for me, if at all, if it ever did.
>
> There would be no point. Even if it didn't restart the addiction
> and send me back to nearly 3 packs a day, why would I do it?
>
> Maybe for $100 per cigarette. Or maybe not. Make it $1,000
> and I'll smoke as many as you've got money.
>
> I would probably, if enough were smoked, become physically
> addicted. But we know the physical addiction is minor compared
> to the psychological
No, I don't know that at all. Please stop telling me that "we" know
it's mostly psychological. I say it isn't. I say it's mostly
biochemical. Is that clear, or do I have to figure out some more
definitive way to say it.
Just my opinion, of course, but I wish you would stop telling me what
he fuck I think.
DutchVanAfoort
It's not *your* quit. Dumbass.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article <08142198-97e0-4171-9f65-e3467483c...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>> addicted. But we know the physical addiction is minor compared
>> to the psychological
>
>No, I don't know that at all. Please stop telling me that "we" know
>it's mostly psychological. I say it isn't. I say it's mostly
>biochemical. Is that clear, or do I have to figure out some more
>definitive way to say it.
You're wrong. And I'm not alone in this.
>Just my opinion, of course, but I wish you would stop telling me what
>he fuck I think.
If you could admit it's in your mind, you might be able to
deal with it better.
em
> In article <87b8bc48-2e79-43d0-8684-189938ede...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
I'm not having any of those problems. Well, OK, gas. I keep telling
the kids, "Whatever you do, don't pull my thumb. Don't do it.
Noooo..." Kids, though, they never listen. Sheesh.
I'd put up with any of those side effects, for the short term, to use
a nic replacement and quit smoking. Well, except for nasal ulcers or
painful menstruation. If I get either of those two things I would
strongly consider going back to smoking.
Eldon
> In article <876e034c-4225-43fa-a27f-4a5edfc32...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
Yeah, sure. Maybe Christian Science should start a smoking cessation
program, huh? It might solve their problem of dwindling membership.
It's all in your mind! In fact, if that's the case, why don't you
telepathically cure some cases of lung cancer and get back to me with
the results?
Bruce Watson
em <turco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>> In article
><87b8bc48-2e79-43d0-8684-189938ede...@l13g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>>
While I was smoking I did have lower back pain (I'm told the
back muscles are poorly served by the circulatory system--smoking
interferes with it), my eyes would burn if I held the cigarette
in my mouth (I couldn't understand how smokers could do that--it
was almost always in my hand). It wasn't until I quit I realized
my sense of smell was subdued. It came back with a vengeance in
a city known for it's fine food. I took advantage of that. My
throat was almost always sore. I'd get mouth sores. It was killing
my sinuses.
All the "advantages" of smoking.
Nicotine must be pretty strong to compel smokers to suffer those ills.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><876e034c-4225-43fa-a27f-4a5edfc32...@a32g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>
><08142198-97e0-4171-9f65-e3467483c...@r5g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>> >> I would probably, if enough were smoked, become physically
>> >> addicted. But we know the physical addiction is minor compared
>> >> to the psychological
>>
>> >No, I don't know that at all. Please stop telling me that "we" know
>> >it's mostly psychological. I say it isn't. I say it's mostly
>> >biochemical. Is that clear, or do I have to figure out some more
>> >definitive way to say it.
>>
>> You're wrong. And I'm not alone in this.
>>
>> >Just my opinion, of course, but I wish you would stop telling me what
>> >he fuck I think.
>>
>> If you could admit it's in your mind, you might be able to
>> deal with it better.
>
>Yeah, sure. Maybe Christian Science should start a smoking cessation
>program, huh? It might solve their problem of dwindling membership.
>It's all in your mind! In fact, if that's the case, why don't you
>telepathically cure some cases of lung cancer and get back to me with
>the results?
Until I explained it, you didn't know the difference between
withdrawal and craving. After two months without nicotine, there
was no way you could still be experiencing withdrawal. That's
the physical part of drug use. Nicotine doesn't rate high with
withdrawal like heroin (Alcohol is supposed to be deadly for
some in withdrawal. I find that hard to believe. I must not
be drinking enough).
What you were experiencing, after those two months, was craving.
Not withdrawal. Craving is caused by the mismatch between the
number of new nicotinic receptors you created by smoking and
the lack of nicotine to stimulate them after you stop supplying
them with nicotine.
Yeah, Ok, it's biochemical. But it's in the brain, not the body.
Craving is not a physical symptom. It's a brain process. It's mental.
Until you understand that, you're going to misinterpret what's
happening and cause problems.
Eldon
> In article <a4f8a2bf-ccfd-4e72-9c0f-e0bdccbbf...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
Excuuuuuuse me, but the brain IS part of the body, is it not? Last
time I checked, mine was percolating away right inside my skull,
almost as fast as the chips in my Macintosh, consuming about 60 watts
worth of glucose. Aren't we talking about a physical organ? A brain
process is biochemical. It can be observed on scanning machines.
The definition of "mental" is something else. It is the result of
brain processes, and perhaps interacts to determine or influence them.
If you want to get into a soul > mind > nervous system discussion,
fine. But first, please try to educate yourself enough to prevent
idiocies like your statement above so you don't make a fool of
yourself again.
> Until you understand that, you're going to misinterpret what's
> happening and cause problems.
Back atcha, Bruce.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article <a4f8a2bf-ccfd-4e72-9c0f-e0bdccbbf...@k4g2000yqb.googlegroups.com>,
>>
Yes, it's part of the body. It's a piece of meat. But it's also
programmed. And can be reprogrammed.
>The definition of "mental" is something else. It is the result of
>brain processes, and perhaps interacts to determine or influence them.
>If you want to get into a soul > mind > nervous system discussion,
>fine. But first, please try to educate yourself enough to prevent
>idiocies like your statement above so you don't make a fool of
>yourself again.
I don't have to get into the definition of the soul because
that (if it exists) has to do with only religion and salvation, not
with any mental processing. Mind, yes. The central nervous
system is just another term for brain and brain stem.
What I'm trying to tell you is the difference between
withdrawal (purely physical) and craving (which is in
the brain) affecting our mental processes. What you experienced
after two months was not withdrawal (physical) but craving (mental).
Eldon
> In article <ae83e57d-39e0-46e2-a7b0-1b92d9f07...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
No, it was not mental or a result of my thought process. It had
nothing to do with thought. The "mental" part was my fucked up state
of mind with racing thoughts and random mental images of an unpleasant
variety. I correctly analyzed that as a neurochemical malfunction. My
synapses were fucked up. My RAM was scrambled. Whatever.
That happened progressively after I stopped smoking. Maybe it was just
a coincidence, but I doubt it. It was a sonofabitch.
em
>
> Nicotine must be pretty strong to compel smokers to suffer those ills.
I don't have a "burning desire" to stop smoking and that bothers me.
I'm not feeling driven to stick with it. But... it's time for me to
quit.
The cumulative affect of thirty-five years of smoking cigarettes has
really taken it's toll. I cough a lot, I get winded easily. Last time
I caught a cold I was in bed, literally, for three weeks. I could
barely breath. Still, though, I could smoke one right now and not feel
a stitch of guilt.
Meh! I'm in the middle of day 2. I'm sure that in a few days I'll feel
much better about this whole thing.
msmomo2u
> I'm wondering if anyone here has had any experience with these e-cig
> things they'd care to share. Have you come across a good quality
> product? If you've used these as a quit smoking aid (as in getting off
> nicotine all together), how has that worked out for you? Also, if
> you've used this product for a period of time, has it helped to reduce
> coughing and breathlessness?
>
> I bought a "smokeless cigarette starter kit" yesterday and started
> using it. So far, this is what I see: "electronic cigarettes" are an
> effective replacement for regular cigarettes in regards to getting a
> nicotine fix. Better than the gum and the patch, it seems.
> Quality-wise, the product I purchased isn't all that great.
> Puff-to-puff, you never know how hard to hit the thing, and some
> cartridges last longer than others. As these things are sealed units,
> I imagine that once the battery goes you have to buy a whole new kit.
>
> So far, so good (I think). I haven't had a "real" cigarette for almost
> 24 hours now. This thing has totally replaced "smoking" and I've not
> had to deal with any cravings whatsoever. It's kind of like, "Good
> news, I don't snort coke anymore. I shoot it up instead." I guess the
> same story goes for all nic replacements.
>
> Mike
Ummm. Well, no.
But my .02 is that it is not good to keep the same pattern.. even
playing with toy cigarettes
which this sounds like. A play cigarette. As if that is all you need
to replace that ritual in your life.
I'm a chantix advocate.
It takes a very strong vigilence I know, having gone through it, for
at least the very first two months.
But if you make it through for the few first days, every day builds on
the other so there is this
strength occuring because of your actions that build and build every
day. Kind of like a snow ball effect.
Best of luck,
Peace,
Suzie
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Where did I make any suggestion that it wasn't more difficult for some
people than others?
DutchVanAfoort
"Karen" <> schreef in bericht ...
>
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article <ae83e57d-39e0-46e2-a7b0-1b92d9f07...@c3g2000yqd.googlegroups.com>,
>> withdrawal (purely physical) and craving (which is in
>> the brain) affecting our mental processes. What you experienced
>> after two months was not withdrawal (physical) but craving (mental).
>
>No, it was not mental or a result of my thought process. It had
>nothing to do with thought. The "mental" part was my fucked up state
>of mind with racing thoughts and random mental images of an unpleasant
>variety. I correctly analyzed that as a neurochemical malfunction. My
>synapses were fucked up. My RAM was scrambled. Whatever.
That was happening inside your skull, not outside.
Bruce Watson
em <turco...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
>> Nicotine must be pretty strong to compel smokers to suffer those ills.
>
>I don't have a "burning desire" to stop smoking and that bothers me.
Just ask yourself what it was doing FOR you.
Was it making you smarter? Better looking? Giving you superhuman powers?
>I'm not feeling driven to stick with it. But... it's time for me to
>quit.
>
>The cumulative affect of thirty-five years of smoking cigarettes has
>really taken it's toll. I cough a lot, I get winded easily. Last time
>I caught a cold I was in bed, literally, for three weeks. I could
>barely breath.
That's what it was doing TO you.
Try to put in words what it was doing FOR you.
You'll find the words hard to come by.
>Still, though, I could smoke one right now and not feel
>a stitch of guilt.
Smoking isn't a guilty pleasure. It's a car payment.
Some tobacco exec is driving the luxury car you're making payments on.
>Meh! I'm in the middle of day 2. I'm sure that in a few days I'll feel
>much better about this whole thing.
Day 3 is hump day.
Hang in there.
Karen
Yeah!!!! I'm justy kind of disappointed he wasn't around to correspnd
with during all those easy times I had trying to quit ;-)
PolarBear
Yes, quit boddy you came a long long way and struggled a lot, and I am
glad you finally made it. I am so happy that you hava working quit.
/me jumps up and down for her quit boddy Karen.
HappyPolarBear
DutchVanAfoort
"Karen" <> schreef in bericht ...
>
Karen
((((HappyPolarBear)))) so glad you are here Carmen - I think you and I
are way too long overdue that icecream in Toronto!!!!!!!!!
PolarBear
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep yep way overdue....
I know a very good ice cream place here in Toronto. Dutch ice cream..
hmmmm yum yum...
the Dutch are the best ... /me smiles at Robin and wished she could
show him her favourite ice cream place.
HappyPolarBear
Eldon
You didn't say it, just implied it and then suggested that my thought
process was somehow causing me to struggle with with withdrawal,
right? Wrong assumptions. Your thought process appears to be flawed.
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
LOL!! I did not imply anything - you're the one whose made
assumptions. My initial comment was that I didn't agree with your
comment about withdrawal. I haven't assumed cos it's pretty *obvious*
not
*assumptive* that an idiot who would comment quote "So why don't you
rilly, truly BELIEVE you can smoke just one
cigarette once in awhile and do that?" must have some kind of problem
with
their thinking.
Learn to read Eldon!
DutchVanAfoort
"PolarBear" <> schreef in bericht ...
>
> - Show quoted text -
yep yep way overdue....
PolarBear
> I'd love to have some ice-cream in Toronto. If only. :-D
>
/me ducks and runs away...
Karen
Sounds lovely Carmen ... it's only a 6 hour flight for you Robin - the
airport is right in Toronto :-) we can meet you there!!
PolarBear
>
and we are nice Robin, we even pick you up from the airport so you
don't have to walk. :)
DutchVanAfoort
Lynn and Steve and Sarah and the boy and see Karen. Have
so many places and people on my list. Still need to see a friend
in newfyland and I'd like to go see a friend in Australia and
visit Jef. I'm just bad at traveling. Ask Cat, it doesn't bring out
the best in me. <grin> But I can dream, right? ;-) I mean, if
you can run like a duck, I can dream. <grin> You'll just have to
have an ice-cream for me hun.
"PolarBear" <> schreef in bericht ...
excuses, excuses....
rickh
>
Ice cream party in Toronto? I'm in! I'm about 50 km east..
Karen
>
> - Show quoted text -
Fantastic - bloody hell Rick you're even closer than me I'm in
Cambridge, if that means anything to you!!
FlatIronMike
Toronto airport in the making... Wonder which gate it will be held
at? <G>
FlatironMike
infrequent flier
Two years, nine months, one day, 22 hours, 9 minutes and 33 seconds.
20118 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,035.54. Life saved: 9 weeks, 6
days, 20 hours, 30 minutes.
DutchVanAfoort
too. Eating ice-cream in the snow. Or a snowball fight.
Can't have a meet with Carmen and not throw snow balls
for a bit, coz that will make her one happy polar bear.
"rickh" <> schreef in bericht ...
>
> - Show quoted text -
Ice cream party in Toronto? I'm in! I'm about 50 km east..