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Molly
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Cigarette trafficking has become a highly profitable revenue source
for criminal and terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, al Qaeda and
Hamas. Money is often raised in the United States, then funneled back
to these international terrorist groups. Cigarette smuggling is a
multibillion dollar phenomenon and getting worse. To counter this
trend, I introduced the Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act
of 2009 which recently passed the Senate Judiciary Committee. It
provides law enforcement essential resources to crack down on black
market tobacco ventures.
The PACT Act will strengthen our tobacco laws to ensure that law
enforcement has the tools they need to investigate and prosecute
cigarette traffickers. Illegal tobacco vendors around the world evade
detection by conducting transactions over the Internet, then shipping
their illegal products around the country to consumers. Just a few
years ago, there were less than 100 vendors selling cigarettes
online. Today, approximately 500 vendors sell illegal tobacco
products over the Internet. Each day we delay the PACT Act’s passage,
terrorists and criminals raise more money, states lose significant tax
revenue, and kids have easy access to tobacco products sold over the
internet.
In 1998, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco, Firearms and Explosives had
six active tobacco smuggling investigations. Today there are more
than 400. But the number of cases alone does not sufficiently put the
challenge into perspective. The amount of money involved is truly
astonishing. Cigarette trafficking, including the illegal sale of
tobacco products over the internet, costs states billions of dollars
in lost tax revenue each year. It is estimated that we lose $5
billion of tax revenue, at the federal and state level, every year.
The cost to Americans is not merely financial. Internet tobacco sales
have been used by terrorist and organized crime groups to raise
millions of dollars to support their illicit activities. Hezbollah is
estimated to have earned $1.5 million between 1996 and 2000 through
tobacco smuggling. The 9/11 Commission noted that terrorists often
raise money by trafficking in counterfeit goods, such as cigarettes.
We can no longer continue to let terrorist organizations exploit the
weaknesses in our tobacco laws to their advantage.
The Prevent All Cigarette Trafficking (PACT) Act will:
· Strengthen reporting requirements for interstate cigarette
sellers.
· Increase the criminal penalty from a misdemeanor to a felony
and create a substantial civil penalty for
violations, including violations of the reporting requirements
and state tobacco tax laws.
· Grant federal and state law enforcement officials more power to
investigate and prosecute violators.
· Prohibit the United States Postal Service from delivering
tobacco products
The common sense approach taken in the PACT Act to combat this problem
has brought together a strong coalition of supporters. The
legislation has the backing of the law enforcement community, numerous
public health advocates, and tobacco companies. I am encouraged by
the Judiciary Committee’s vote and am optimistic that we can work
together to pass this bill.
Molly
Bruce Watson
Molly <moll...@sbcglobal.net> wrote:
>
>Cigarette trafficking has become a highly profitable revenue source
>for criminal and terrorist organizations like Hezbollah, al Qaeda and
>Hamas. Money is often raised in the United States, then funneled back
>to these international terrorist groups.
I wonder how many current smokers will quit when they hear of this?
Some may give it a brief thought and reject the idea.
Nicotine, don't ever underestimate it.
Eldon
This is the one thing that might have some bite. They could also do
the same with UPS and Fedex, I'm sure.
They can also try to scare people about the dangers of counterfeits
from China, but people know the real thing is dangerous too.
http://www.timesonline.co.uk/tol/news/uk/article416370.ece
FlatIronMike
sent out the press release, but I am thinking it is likely that it's
Russ Feinberg? Anyway, I do think smuggled and illegal sickerettes
are yet another pain that needs to be removed. I do know when I
smoked, I bought sickerettes from a tribe of Indians who were located
outside of Buffalo until I feared getting caught as the City got into
investigating the practice. What I did find amazing was that the
United States POSTAL SERVICE was their carrier and if the Post Office
had a brain at all they ought to have refused to accept them for
delivery. A real case of the left hand not knowing what the right
hand was up to, eh?
FlatironMike
no mail service now
Two years, nine months, one week, three days, 18 hours, 43 minutes and
50 seconds. 20295 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,088.68. Life saved:
10 weeks, 11 hours, 15 minutes.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>
>This is the one thing that might have some bite. They could also do
>the same with UPS and Fedex, I'm sure.
Done and done. And done again.
Today's agreement means that the three major package delivery
companies FedEx, UPS and DHL have all agreed to prohibit deliveries of
cigarettes to individual consumers nationwide. However, the cigarette
traffickers continue to use the United States Postal Service as
courier for their illegal sales.
http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/tobacco_fedex.html
Molly
This was from Senator Herb Kohl. Molly
FlatIronMike
> This was from Senator Herb Kohl. Molly
Thanks for the clarification, Molly. I get emails from Feinburg often
but not Kohl so I am not as familiar with his 'style' <G>
FlatironMike
politically incorrect
Two years, nine months, one week, four days, 5 hours, 27 minutes and
42 seconds. 20304 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,091.36. Life saved:
10 weeks, 12 hours, 0 minutes.
Eldon
> In article <7af3610e-dab8-401c-ae36-331a4c5b0...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
>
> >This is the one thing that might have some bite. They could also do
> >the same with UPS and Fedex, I'm sure.
>
> Done and done. And done again.
>
> Today's agreement means that the three major package delivery
> companies FedEx, UPS and DHL have all agreed to prohibit deliveries of
> cigarettes to individual consumers nationwide. However, the cigarette
> traffickers continue to use the United States Postal Service as
> courier for their illegal sales.
Neat. You'd think it would be the other way around, but maybe there is
some legal liability for the USPS, or they just don't have the
resources to check.
>
> http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/tobacco_fedex.html
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><7af3610e-dab8-401c-ae36-331a4c5b0...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >the same with UPS and Fedex, I'm sure.
>>
>> Done and done. And done again.
>>
>> Today's agreement means that the three major package delivery
>> companies FedEx, UPS and DHL have all agreed to prohibit deliveries of
>> cigarettes to individual consumers nationwide. However, the cigarette
>> traffickers continue to use the United States Postal Service as
>> courier for their illegal sales.
>
>Neat. You'd think it would be the other way around, but maybe there is
>some legal liability for the USPS, or they just don't have the
>resources to check.
I suppose they just don't accept anything from the online
cigarette vendors.
Smokers in high-tax states like New York, Connecticut, Rhode Island,
New Jersey, Hawaii, Wisconsin, Massachusetts, Vermont, Washington,
Alaska, Arizona, Maine, Maryland, Michigan, New Hampshire, Montana,
Delaware, Minnesota, South Dakota, and Texas must really be
seriously thinking about quitting if they were dodging the price
by purchasing online.
Imagine the absurdity of being trapped into slowly killing
yourself and paying a hefty price for the privilege.
Eldon
> In article <944dab8f-2cb0-43c7-8703-883668b6a...@s31g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> In article
> ><7af3610e-dab8-401c-ae36-331a4c5b0...@j14g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
> >> >This is the one thing that might have some bite. They could also do
> >> >the same with UPS and Fedex, I'm sure.
>
> >> Done and done. And done again.
>
> >> Today's agreement means that the three major package delivery
> >> companies FedEx, UPS and DHL have all agreed to prohibit deliveries of
> >> cigarettes to individual consumers nationwide. However, the cigarette
> >> traffickers continue to use the United States Postal Service as
> >> courier for their illegal sales.
>
> >>http://www.consumeraffairs.com/news04/2006/02/tobacco_fedex.html
> >Neat. You'd think it would be the other way around, but maybe there is
> >some legal liability for the USPS, or they just don't have the
> >resources to check.
>
> I suppose they just don't accept anything from the online
> cigarette vendors.
True. The private shippers have tracking systems for each package, so
they could plop a list into the system. But anyone can just stick
postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox. The Unabomber only
used regular parcel post.
I guess the USPS would have to institute an X-ray detection system or
something of that sort.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> I suppose they just don't accept anything from the online
>> cigarette vendors.
>
>True. The private shippers have tracking systems for each package, so
>they could plop a list into the system. But anyone can just stick
>postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox. The Unabomber only
>used regular parcel post.
That would be time consuming if you're running a business.
Mailboxes and drop-off containers would fill up pretty
quickly. You'd have to constantly go all over town.
>I guess the USPS would have to institute an X-ray detection system or
>something of that sort.
There's talk of putting RFID chips in every pack of cigarettes
to combat counterfeiting and smuggling. That would be a giveaway
to the contents of a parcel containing cigarettes from an
online vendor.
At any rate, it's becoming harder for smokers to evade the taxes.
At what point do you think smokers will just say to hell with it?
Or is nicotine too strong a drug--that they will just pay the price?
FlatIronMike
$25 a pack for crunchy cat turds if it gave them their nicotine fix...
FlatironMike
cheaper than THAT!
Two years, nine months, one week, four days, 14 hours, 2 minutes and
11 seconds. 20311 cigarettes not smoked, saving $6,093.51. Life saved:
10 weeks, 12 hours, 35 minutes.
Eldon
> In article <99f1c579-ad5a-47d9-95f0-2b64e1e6d...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> I suppose they just don't accept anything from the online
> >> cigarette vendors.
>
> >True. The private shippers have tracking systems for each package, so
> >they could plop a list into the system. But anyone can just stick
> >postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox. The Unabomber only
> >used regular parcel post.
>
> That would be time consuming if you're running a business.
> Mailboxes and drop-off containers would fill up pretty
> quickly. You'd have to constantly go all over town.
>
> >I guess the USPS would have to institute an X-ray detection system or
> >something of that sort.
>
> There's talk of putting RFID chips in every pack of cigarettes
> to combat counterfeiting and smuggling. That would be a giveaway
> to the contents of a parcel containing cigarettes from an
> online vendor.
And how long before the Chinese learn to counterfeit those? As I
understand, there's a sizable amount of non-taxed fakes sold at those
little "discount outlets" in shopping malls, though of course they
charge prices that can pass for retail.
>
> At any rate, it's becoming harder for smokers to evade the taxes.
> At what point do you think smokers will just say to hell with it?
Well, the amount of money was what convinced me. Once they got up to
$7 a pack (in euros), I said that's it. I probably wouldn't have quit
as soon if I had been in a cheaper market like Spain or Greece. Of
course, a long time ago, I said I would quit when the price went over
$1... and then $2... and so on. But there is a limit somewhere for
most people.
> Or is nicotine too strong a drug--that they will just pay the price?
It's pretty strong. The hyper-analytical French Doctor Molimard has
studied how low income people will often buy cigarettes rather than
pay the rent or buy decent food -- and the health hazards for homeless
people who roll their own, pass them around, and smoke them down to
nothing.
Anne D.
"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:99f1c579-ad5a-47d9...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>
> But anyone can just stick
> postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox.
Not any more. Any package over13 ounces has to be handed over at the post
office. They can no longer be dropped in a mailbox or left in a rural-route
box.
Bruce Watson
FlatIronMike <flatiro...@gmail.com> wrote:
>Sad as it is, Bruce, I suspect there are some addicts that would pay
>$25 a pack for crunchy cat turds if it gave them their nicotine fix...
I agree. But not many.
We could see it happen. As taxes rise, smokers quit and
revenue decreases. States (and localities) could raise
other taxes but that's not very popular with the electorate.
So, they raise cigarette taxes again.
They keep doing that. Eventually we could see $25 packs.
Hooda thunk NYC smokers would ever be paying $9 to $10?
Eldon
> "Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
Hmmm... thanks for bringing me up to date. One carton would still be
less than that (9-10 ounces). But that would be easier for them to
detect large orders. Isn't all this speculation about surreptitious
stuff funny? Is to me anyway.
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article
><99f1c579-ad5a-47d9-95f0-2b64e1e6d...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com>,
>>
>> >> cigarette vendors.
>>
>> >True. The private shippers have tracking systems for each package, so
>> >they could plop a list into the system. But anyone can just stick
>> >postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox. The Unabomber only
>> >used regular parcel post.
>>
>> That would be time consuming if you're running a business.
>> Mailboxes and drop-off containers would fill up pretty
>> quickly. You'd have to constantly go all over town.
>>
>> >I guess the USPS would have to institute an X-ray detection system or
>> >something of that sort.
>>
>> There's talk of putting RFID chips in every pack of cigarettes
>> to combat counterfeiting and smuggling. That would be a giveaway
>> to the contents of a parcel containing cigarettes from an
>> online vendor.
>
>And how long before the Chinese learn to counterfeit those? As I
>understand, there's a sizable amount of non-taxed fakes sold at those
>little "discount outlets" in shopping malls, though of course they
>charge prices that can pass for retail.
The information would be encrypted.
>> At any rate, it's becoming harder for smokers to evade the taxes.
>> At what point do you think smokers will just say to hell with it?
>
>Well, the amount of money was what convinced me. Once they got up to
>$7 a pack (in euros), I said that's it. I probably wouldn't have quit
>as soon if I had been in a cheaper market like Spain or Greece. Of
>course, a long time ago, I said I would quit when the price went over
>$1... and then $2... and so on. But there is a limit somewhere for
>most people.
That's unusual. Price normally isn't the main driver for a smoker
to quit. Nearly all of us promised we would quit when the price
reached some round number and kept on smoking every time it reached
a new round number.
Health usually isn't either. Smokers are constantly
reminded of that every time their light up. They tune it out.
What usually tips the balance is the smoker gets to the point
where he realizes smoking just isn't doing anything worthwhile.
That can take decades.
>> Or is nicotine too strong a drug--that they will just pay the price?
>
>It's pretty strong. The hyper-analytical French Doctor Molimard has
>studied how low income people will often buy cigarettes rather than
>pay the rent or buy decent food -- and the health hazards for homeless
>people who roll their own, pass them around, and smoke them down to
>nothing.
Yes, they will deny it but nicotine is always at the top of the
smoker's shopping list. Next, a distance second, comes food for
the kids.
Bruce Watson
Anne D. <ann...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>
>"Eldon" <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote in message
>news:99f1c579-ad5a-47d9...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> But anyone can just stick
>> postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox.
>
>box.
I'd forgotten that. I've never mailed anything that heavy. Isn't it
(or wasn't it) 16 ounces?
A carton of cigarettes weighs more than 8 ounces. And isn't there usually
a two-carton minimum per order?
It certainly looks like cheap cigarettes online is a thing of the past.
A recent survey showed the percentage of smokers rose slightly
last year instead of the usual decline over the past half century.
But the survey period was BEFORE the SCHIP increase of 66+ cents.
Couple that with state rises and having to pay the full
amount to the state and you're giving up quite a bit of
money for the privilege of slow suicide from a drug that
doesn't do much of anything.
Eventually, the reasons pile up and the camel's back is broken.
Eldon
> In article <hec48d$v6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> Anne D. <anne...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>
> >"Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >news:99f1c579-ad5a-47d9...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> But anyone can just stick
> >> postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox.
>
> >Not any more. Any package over 13 ounces has to be handed over at the post
> >office. They can no longer be dropped in a mailbox or left in a rural-route
> >box.
>
> I'd forgotten that. I've never mailed anything that heavy. Isn't it
> (or wasn't it) 16 ounces?
>
> A carton of cigarettes weighs more than 8 ounces. And isn't there usually
> a two-carton minimum per order?
The carton weight I found on the Internet was 9-10 ounces; 250 grams
or a little more, depending on the brand. Some online places ship
cartons individually already even if the customer orders more than one
in order to stay under the radar.
That could make an interesting sitcom segment: Two native Americans
barreling around in a van, stuffing cartons in various mailboxes.
>
> It certainly looks like cheap cigarettes online is a thing of the past.
Maybe the really heavy addicts will be ordering a container of
counterfeits before it happens. Here are some suppliers:
http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/cartons_cigarettes.html
Bruce Watson
Eldon <Eldo...@aol.com> wrote:
>> In article <hec48d$v6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>>
>> Anne D. <anne...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>>
>> >"Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
>> >news:99f1c579-ad5a-47d9...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>>
>> >> But anyone can just stick
>> >> postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox.
>>
>>
>> I'd forgotten that. I've never mailed anything that heavy. Isn't it
>> (or wasn't it) 16 ounces?
>>
>> A carton of cigarettes weighs more than 8 ounces. And isn't there usually
>> a two-carton minimum per order?
>
>The carton weight I found on the Internet was 9-10 ounces; 250 grams
>or a little more, depending on the brand. Some online places ship
>cartons individually already even if the customer orders more than one
>in order to stay under the radar.
Sounds right. There is a gram of tobacco in each cigarette.
Then add the weight of the filter and the packaging.
Do you have an idea what the shipping costs would be for a single
carton. It probably isn't several dollars that the smoker would
be avoiding (evading) by the online purchase.
>That could make an interesting sitcom segment: Two native Americans
>barreling around in a van, stuffing cartons in various mailboxes.
Think of the cost of gasoline.
>> It certainly looks like cheap cigarettes online is a thing of the past.
>
>Maybe the really heavy addicts will be ordering a container of
>counterfeits before it happens. Here are some suppliers:
>http://buy.ecplaza.net/search/1s1nf20sell/cartons_cigarettes.html
I wonder how many really hard-core addicts there are left.
I mean the ones who would smoke regardless of cost, regardless
of disease, regardless of having to completely drop out of society.
It can't be many. I warn smokers not to be one when the percentage
hits ten. They will be invisible. People will start seriously
considering banning tobacco completely because the perception
will be no one smokes any more.
Eldon
> In article <1716d978-65ee-47a2-916d-d0134acd2...@f16g2000yqm.googlegroups.com>,
>
>
>
> Eldon <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote:
> >> In article <hec48d$v6...@news.eternal-september.org>,
>
> >> Anne D. <anne...@gEEmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> >"Eldon" <EldonB...@aol.com> wrote in message
> >> >news:99f1c579-ad5a-47d9...@s15g2000yqs.googlegroups.com...
>
> >> >> But anyone can just stick
> >> >> postage onto a parcel and toss it into any mailbox.
>
> >> >box.
>
> >> I'd forgotten that. I've never mailed anything that heavy. Isn't it
> >> (or wasn't it) 16 ounces?
>
> >> A carton of cigarettes weighs more than 8 ounces. And isn't there usually
> >> a two-carton minimum per order?
>
> >The carton weight I found on the Internet was 9-10 ounces; 250 grams
> >or a little more, depending on the brand. Some online places ship
> >cartons individually already even if the customer orders more than one
> >in order to stay under the radar.
>
> Sounds right. There is a gram of tobacco in each cigarette.
> Then add the weight of the filter and the packaging.
>
> Do you have an idea what the shipping costs would be for a single
> carton. It probably isn't several dollars that the smoker would
> be avoiding (evading) by the online purchase.
Nope, I have no idea. Of course, that would depend on whether they
were shipped from Moldavia, the Caribbean, or one's own region of the
US. All of which are real points of origin.