Support Ring for SuzyQ
lilblakdog
>Others: if you want to 'clearly' add your support, please tag onto
>this.
Well, I think she got the picture when I gave her my telephone number, told
her to call me collect, and let her know the hours I'm generally home.
But, just in case, I'm here too.
lil
---
"Who is at fault when a monster is a monster? Is it the monster's? Or the
person who created it to be a monster?"
Kevin
OK, I don't know if this will go or not.
I just wanted to make clear to Suzy that there is support here. I know
others have already expressed this, but it's often buried in the midst of
that long thread.
So what I'm saying is that I'm *acutely* aware of the impact that such an
experience over the last few days must have had upon Suzy, and that I,
for one, am willing to be here in support of what may come in the future
for her, and her situation.
It means I personally am doing my utmost to listen and acknowledge the
very real pain she has been in, and will likely continue to be in for
some time.
I'm also aware that I am learning from this situation too, and
particularly wishing to show appreciation for Suzy's perseverance and
sterling qualities - her ability to keep cool where I don't think I could
have managed it.
Welcome to the group Suzy!
Others: if you want to 'clearly' add your support, please tag onto
this... anyone who wishes for clarification on why I think this important
is welcome to email me.
Kevin
TYounger
I'm in, she can email me any time, and I'm 31121503 on
ICQ too. Anybody else is welcome to cantact me at that
number as well.
Just be aware that I need more mental breaks than the
average poster, because i get frustrated extraodinarily
easily.
Tamara
> Kevin said...
Kevin
> > Others: if you want to 'clearly' add your support, please tag onto
> > this... anyone who wishes for clarification on why I think this important
> > is welcome to email me.
> >
> > Kevin
>
> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
>
Thanks for bringing that up.
If it helps at all, I was reluctant to put that last bit in there. I'm
guessing you felt cross about it because you have a right to freedom of
choice of where,when and how you offer and express support.
In explanation: I can perceive your support in the thread clearly. I can
only imagine the amount of pain that Suzy is feeling and has expressed
for herself. Because of the amount of pain I've heard in her posts I'm
also guessing that she may not yet be able to feel the support coming
through, hence separating it out in a different thread for that
particular purpose.
So, the way I was seeing it, not posting to this thread does *not* mean
lack of support for Suzy, and I apologise for the misunderstanding. By
using the word 'clearly' in inverted commas in my original post I was
meaning 'clearly from Suzy's perspective'.
It's a gesture, and may or may not be necessary.
Kevin
--
If there is anything we wish to change in the child, we should first
examine it and see whether it is not something that could better be
changed in ourselves.
---Carl Gustav Jung
Sian Lee Reid
(Kevin) wrote:
> So, the way I was seeing it, not posting to this thread does *not* mean
> lack of support for Suzy, and I apologise for the misunderstanding. By
> using the word 'clearly' in inverted commas in my original post I was
> meaning 'clearly from Suzy's perspective'.
>
> It's a gesture, and may or may not be necessary.
>
You can add me to your 'gesture' list, Kevin...
Sian
nicky
And Kevin - I think that's a good idea of yours.
Nicky
april...@my-deja.com
hope that SuzyQ realizes that the majority of us just want to
understand and support her, whether we think what she is involved in is
right or wrong....I have been on both sides of the situation she is
dealing with, and have had friends go through it as well, so I am able
to see things from her point of view. I just hope we can all stick
together, and help her learn to help (and love) herself. My ICQ is
37148298, email to: ap...@bresnanlink.net (my regular acct) or
unik...@ivillage.com (private) April
In article <MPG.12ad6548f...@news.cwcom.net>,
> Others: if you want to 'clearly' add your support, please tag onto
> this... anyone who wishes for clarification on why I think this
important
> is welcome to email me.
>
> Kevin
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
ma...@sympatico.ca
> see...@cwcom.net (Kevin) wrote:
> > To Suzy and others
> > Others: if you want to 'clearly' add your support, please tag onto
> > this... anyone who wishes for clarification on why I think this
> > important is welcome to email me.
Sure.
Suzy, whatever I may think of your situation, you have my support *where*
*you're* *at*, not my support conditional on you changing anything.
And you can email me anytime you like, though I will not have good email
access from the 5th of December to the 5th of January.
I'll be checking the NG, though, and can check marnaa...@deja.com
Marna
Kallynn1
>I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
>
>
>
Ditto
lilblakdog
news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
I think Jane's got a great big point here. I have to admit, I responded to
it in rather a flip way for a reason--I didn't want to appear unfeeling but,
at the same time, I really didn't want to be a part of the idea of a
"support ring" around one person. This whole group--trolls aside--is a
support ring. I'm here for Suzie as much as I'm here for anyone
else--possibly more so when I think she needs it, same as anyone else--and
don't like the idea of coming out on here and *saying*, "Yes, I'm here for
Suzie," to the exclusion of everybody else.
When you needed extra support, Kevin, I contacted you directly. That's what
I did with Suzie and what I do with everyone. I must say that I'm not
comfortable with making it look like I'm rallying around one person.
I really feel it should be left up to the individuals if they want to offer
extra support, outside the newsgroup. Even inside the newsgroup, with no
pressure to feel as though they need to. It's a little like saying,
"lil...Suzie needs a hug. C'mon...c'mon over here and give Suzie a hug."
Which puts me on the spot. If I don't, it makes me look bad not only to
Suzie but to you, who is (are?) my friend. And which, I think, is what Jane
is saying. And how I really viewed the whole thing to begin with. If your
name shows up here, then you're part of this whole group hug; if it doesn't,
you must hate her. I don't really think that's fair.
And I know that you clarified that later, Kevin, but I just wanted to add my
feelings on it because I have an exceptionally large mouth when I've got an
opinion! :-)
lil
--
Who is at fault when a monster is a monster? Is it the monster? Or the
Vicki Robinson
:jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
:news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
:
:> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
:> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
:
:I think Jane's got a great big point here.
I generally hate "M3 T00!" posts, but M3 T00!!1! Exactly what lil
said.
Vicki
--
Does it make any sense to say that I decompensate between
paradigms? Probably not. -Jane Lawrence
Tracey
>*you're* *at*, not my support conditional on you changing anything.
Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't quite 'get' this.
--
Tracey
--
In dog years.....I'd be dead.
Melissa Torresan
my feelings almost perfectly.
I'm also going to say that I do not hate Suzy, just to make sure we're
all clear on that. I don't think anyone does.
I appreciate what you're trying to do, Kevin. Let me just say that
nobody did the same thing for me when I first came here, and that was
actually a good thing. I had to come to the realization myself, and if
people had been rushing to coddle me from everyone else's opinion, I
would never have got it. You're essentially giving her mixed messages
"Oh, all those nasty people saying nasty things.. here, have a
lollipop to take the taste out of your mouth.."
Thats just my own opinion, because I've been in a place where I had to
come to some pretty harsh knowledge about myself, and I know what it
was like. I know nobody appreciates that and nobody cares about my
opinion anyway.. but I've learnt a lot about myself here, and I feel
I've come a long way.
Mel
On Tue, 30 Nov 1999 09:29:53 -0800, "lilblakdog"
<lbdcre...@dog.com> wrote:
>jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
>news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
>
>> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
>> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
>
---------------------------------------------------
Melissa Torresan
sm...@crosswinds.net
---------------------------------------------------
Tracey
>opinion anyway..
Mel, who is the 'nobody' you're talking about? Nobody *nobody*
as in 'real life' AND here in the virtual world, or is it one or the
other?
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
>>I know nobody appreciates that and nobody cares about my
>>opinion anyway..
>
>Mel, who is the 'nobody' you're talking about? Nobody *nobody*
>as in 'real life' AND here in the virtual world, or is it one or the
>other?
To be quite honest, Tracey, its probably both. I still feel to this
day that no matter what I do or say here, I'm still an outsider. That
could be just my own paranoia working on me. There are people here who
have been great to me - I won't name names because they should know
who they are, but at the same time, I feel like some people
automatically skip over anything with my name on it - for whatever
reasons.
Here at home, I'm feeling totally out of the loop. I might as well not
even be here. I feel like BM has finally won and got her way, and I've
been swept under the carpet - opinion not noted. I guess it has a lot
to do with the agreement she and SO made about me not going to pickups
and dropoffs - if she can't see me or hear me, I don't exist, and I
really feel like I don't exist at the moment, because SO never even
told me about that till two weeks later. At the same time, this little
voice in my head is screaming "She doesn't matter, and you do exist,
and you're here, and she's not"
The other thing is, nobody really has any idea what that time between
Jane saying what she did, and me waking up, was like for me at all. It
was a version of my own personal hell. But now that I am here, down
the track, and know how much better I was for going through that, I
wouldn't change a thing. I keep saying it to everyone, but nobody is
listening to me. I think Suzy needs to go through that personal hell
thing herself, because she's going to come out a lot better on the
other side. But hey, what do I know? I've only been there and done it
myself. Maybe other things work for other people. I have no idea, I
just know what worked for me.
So I don't really know the answer to your question.. I'm just about at
the point where I am ready to give up on assp. Lots of you have helped
me heaps, and I feel I should stay here, but I no longer know if there
is anyone here wanting to hear what I have to say at all. There's just
this overwhelming feeling of "nothing I do or say is right" in just
about every part of my life right now.
Sounds like a plea for attention, doesn't it.. but I think validation
is more what I need right now.. pathetic, huh?
Mel
Anne Robotti
>
> Here at home, I'm feeling totally out of the loop. I might as well not
> even be here. I feel like BM has finally won and got her way, and I've
> been swept under the carpet - opinion not noted. I guess it has a lot
> to do with the agreement she and SO made about me not going to pickups
> and dropoffs - if she can't see me or hear me, I don't exist, and I
> really feel like I don't exist at the moment, because SO never even
> told me about that till two weeks later. At the same time, this little
> voice in my head is screaming "She doesn't matter, and you do exist,
> and you're here, and she's not"
Well, Mel, do you think that changing your perspective might help a
little bit? You don't exist in BM's world (so you think) anymore
because you don't go to pickups and dropoffs... I think that maybe
if you shift your focus to your role in your *own* house you'll see
that you're really the most important person in your relationships
there. Your relationship to SO wouldn't exist without you, your
relationship to SS wouldn't exist without you. You have a lot of
control in those relationships. You don't have any control in your
relationship with BM because she doesn't want to have one with you.
That's a hard pill to suck up. I've been there. It took me SIX YEARS
to come to the realization that I would not get any validation, respect
or admiration from BM. And you don't have control in DH's relationship
with her because you're not in that relationship. Your situation is a
lot like mine. It would be *easier* if DH would just let you handle
the whole thing. BM wouldn't be able to screw up your lives nearly
as much, you wouldn't feel manipulated all the time... that would all
be great. But it could only happen if *she* allowed it to happen and
she won't. I guess it could be argued she has that right. Even though
it would probably be better for the child involved if they would both
funnel through you and stop fighting, it's not going to happen. You can
only change the way you relate to everybody else, not the way they relate
to you.
>
> The other thing is, nobody really has any idea what that time between
> Jane saying what she did, and me waking up, was like for me at all. It
> was a version of my own personal hell. But now that I am here, down
> the track, and know how much better I was for going through that, I
> wouldn't change a thing. I keep saying it to everyone, but nobody is
> listening to me. I think Suzy needs to go through that personal hell
> thing herself, because she's going to come out a lot better on the
> other side. But hey, what do I know? I've only been there and done it
> myself. Maybe other things work for other people. I have no idea, I
> just know what worked for me.
I think we do, we all went through that learning process with you, just
like everybody did with me, and everybody is with Suzy and everybody
does with everybody. I'm not sure what you're saying there, that Suzy
needed somebody to be nasty to her? I'll go and retrieve Jane's post
to you, but I don't remember it as nasty. Jane rarely is.
>
> So I don't really know the answer to your question.. I'm just about at
> the point where I am ready to give up on assp. Lots of you have helped
> me heaps, and I feel I should stay here, but I no longer know if there
> is anyone here wanting to hear what I have to say at all. There's just
> this overwhelming feeling of "nothing I do or say is right" in just
> about every part of my life right now.
Well, if this is about what I said the other day, maybe we should take
it to private email. I obviously should have kept my mouth shut.
Anne
Kim Scheinberg
>
>I think we do, we all went through that learning process with you, just
>like everybody did with me, and everybody is with Suzy and everybody
>does with everybody. I'm not sure what you're saying there, that Suzy
>needed somebody to be nasty to her? I'll go and retrieve Jane's post
>to you, but I don't remember it as nasty. Jane rarely is.
'Nasty' is a bad choice of words. But jane definitely ripped her a
new asshole. And I don't think there was an inappropriate word in
her first response to Mel
-k.
--
ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
Sarai
lol,
heather
Vicki Robinson wrote in message <821200$jkq$1...@piper.xcski.com>...
>In a previous article, "lilblakdog" <lbdcre...@dog.com> said:
>
>:jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
>:news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
>:
>:> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
>:> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
>:
>:I think Jane's got a great big point here.
>
lilblakdog
>If
>that makes no sense, or is bugging the h*ll out of you, you are welcome
>to email me for clarification, as I suggested in the OP.
Why does that make me feel like if I don't like the rules I can have a
conference with the teacher after school?
It makes lots of sense, if those are *your* feelings. And nothing bugs the
hell out of me. I know you, Kevin, and clarification is not needed--I
understand why you posted what you did. I merely said that *I* wasn't
comfortable looking like I was rallying around one person and apparently
others felt the same.
But what about someone else who's posted here with a huge problem and gotten
less of a response? This whole thing has just been blown out of proportion.
We're here for *everyone*, not just one person at any given time.
I came in here on the single, most hated entrance I've ever seen--and that
includes Mel's. I didn't need everyone to coddle me; knowing my hatred for
hugs and affection, I probably would have thought you were all a bunch of
flakes and gone looking for someone who would tell it like it was.
What I *did* need was one or two people to hear what I was saying and
explain it to the rest of them in a way that I obviously couldn't. That's
what I got. Once they heard what I was saying, I got the support. They
still didn't think I was necessarily right--and *nobody* on here can say
that they always agree with me--but they were supportive. Which is all we
can offer Suzie. Which is why I made the post about giving her some time
and understanding that she *is* absorbing all we had to say.
lil
---
"Who is at fault when a monster is a monster? Is it the monster's? Or the
ma...@sympatico.ca
rbran...@aol.com wrote:
> >Suzy, whatever I may think of your situation, you have my support *where*
> >*you're* *at*, not my support conditional on you changing anything.
>
> Maybe I'm being dense, but I don't quite 'get' this.
I think I was unclear. What I meant to say was: I will give her support
based on my ability to do so, not based on whether I think she's behaving
well or badly.
That doesn't mean I will agree with her, or even be nice. Sometimes the
best, most loving support I can give someone is to call down the Bitch
Goddess and give them hell.
But I'll be *here*, for what it's worth.
More coherent?
Marna.
Jennaii
has already covered it. Sometimes I am JUST *TOO CLOSE* to the subject to be
able to respond sanely.
If the subject is totally out of my realm of experience I for SURE just keep
quiet, (well, usually, when I'm not being an ass).
I think you're doing a great job Mel, and deserve a pat on the back for all you
are dealing with.
>me heaps, and I feel I should stay here, but I no longer know if there
>is anyone here wanting to hear what I have to say at all. There's just
>this overwhelming feeling of "nothing I do or say is right" in just
>about every part of my life right now.
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Kevin
lil,
How you perceive the support group after two or so years is quite likely
to be different to how someone perceives it after a week - particularly
after emerging from that thread. However, I know you msged Suzy directly,
and may obviously have more insight than I do how she's doing.
I don't know what the answer is here. I have some very real concerns, and
while acknowledging the points you and others have made, and the fact
that I was not that comfortable with the idea myself (I thought about it
for about five hours before posting it), I would still do it again. If
that makes no sense, or is bugging the h*ll out of you, you are welcome
to email me for clarification, as I suggested in the OP.
Kevin
In article <yGT04.4146$t12.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>, lilblakdog
says...
> jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
> news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
>
> > Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
> > I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
>
> Who is at fault when a monster is a monster? Is it the monster? Or the
> person who created it to be a monster?
>
>
>
--
Geri and Brian
situation.
Geri
~~~~~~~~~~
"A hairball is not a toy.."
~~~~~~~~~~
To e-mail us, dump the litterbox. :-)
Sian Lee Reid
> >In a previous article, "lilblakdog" <lbdcre...@dog.com> said:
> >
> >:news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
> >:
> >:> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
> >:> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
> >:
> >:I think Jane's got a great big point here.
> >
wants here is an explicit list of people who are willing to do 'above and
beyond this newsgroup' duty.
There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do it; it certainly doesn't make
you unsupportive. The fact of the matter remains, however, that some
people can't, or don't want, or simply are unsuited to do the kind of
emotional work that is often a fine balance between pastoral counselling
and suicide prevention, with a complete stranger. There's nothing wrong
with that. But it is useful to know explicitly who *is* willng and able.
Prevents you from guessing wrong in a crisis. Makes a very reassuring
net, even if you never fall.
That's how I interpreted Kevin's call, at any rate...
Sian
Vicki Robinson
Sian, in reading this over, my comments seem to be aimed at you, since
I am using your post as a springboard. However, please don't take any
of this personally; I am addressing the group as a whole, and am
certianly not targeting you in any way. You are one of the most
consistently level-headed and compassionate (without straying into
alt.cuddle territory) posters here, and I always value your
contributions.
In a previous article, slr...@alfred.carleton.ca (Sian Lee Reid) said:
:Being supportive in the thread is a _good_ thing. I think what Kevin
:wants here is an explicit list of people who are willing to do 'above and
:beyond this newsgroup' duty.
:
There's a danger with this.
:There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do it; it certainly doesn't make
:you unsupportive. The fact of the matter remains, however, that some
:people can't, or don't want, or simply are unsuited to do the kind of
:emotional work that is often a fine balance between pastoral counselling
:and suicide prevention, with a complete stranger.
I have a friend who's got another year of university left (she's
completed ... 3 years, I think) to qualify her to do this kind of
counseling. The therapists I know and the ministers also have years
of training and acceditation under their belts. Anyone who thinks
that he can come to a newsgroup to get pastoral counseling or suicide
prevention is fooling himself, and for us to think that we can even
begin to offer such counseling is extremely foolish and downright
dangerous. I'm very serious here; friends (and newsgroups) can offer
advice and discussion, but what you're talking about here, Sian, is
the province of professionals.
NONE of us are qualified to do this kind of emotional work.
:There's nothing wrong
:with that. But it is useful to know explicitly who *is* willng and able.
:Prevents you from guessing wrong in a crisis. Makes a very reassuring
:net, even if you never fall.
:
Lots of us may be willing, but able is another thing entirely, and
anyone who comes here in a genuine crisis situation (you mentioned
suicide) is in the wrong place. And it's not that I feel myself to be
unable to do this kind of counseling, it's that I *know* that I'm not
qualified. I'm as good at arm-chair psychoanalysis as anyone else
around here, but anyone who listens to me as without a giant grain of
salt is foolish. I'm a smart cookie, plenty of experience, but
therapy is not my expertise. I've been in therapy a number of times.
That doesn't qualify me to analyse other people.
This is a newsgroup. This is a disparate group of people with a lot of
experience in many different things. We can offer each other support
and advice and commiseration, we can help each other pick things apart
and give new perspectives on our situations. We can offer friendship
and illumination. We cannot provide counseling or therapy. We are not
qualified and it would be irresponsible and possibly dangerous for us
to do so.
Sian Lee Reid
Robinson) wrote:
> NONE of us are qualified to do this kind of emotional work.
>
> This is a newsgroup. This is a disparate group of people with a lot of
> experience in many different things. We can offer each other support
> and advice and commiseration, we can help each other pick things apart
> and give new perspectives on our situations. We can offer friendship
> and illumination. We cannot provide counseling or therapy. We are not
> qualified and it would be irresponsible and possibly dangerous for us
> to do so.
>
Don't worry Vicki, I don't take this criticism personally. It's a very
valid point.
I used to work distress centre on a volunteer basis. I value professional
help more than most, because all distress center is, at the end of the
day, is triage. But sometimes people won't go to the professionals right
away, and they need that intermediate step. That, I am willing to do to
the extent to which I'm able.
Do I think Suzie should be relying on the newsgroup members to help her
'fix' her life? No. And I don't think she is. But I maintain that it is
good to know *who* is willing to talk some things through out of the
public eye.
I don't know. It's possible that I often walk that fine line between
compassionate and 'irresponsible and possibly dangerous'. Admittedly, I
only do it with people in my physical reach, not electronically (see
previous postings about the hot bipolar babes!).
It's worth us all thinking about though...
Sian
Melissa Torresan
is soaking wet. I *am* depressed. I do have a lot of other problems.
Life's one big rollercoaster here just now, and I'm the only one
riding while everyone else *here* - here as in people physically
around me, not on assp - just sits and watches. There is one thought
running around in my head, and its "What are you going to DO" and I
can't think of anything to tell it.
I feel like somebody drained everything out of me, except that one
thought. I can pretend to others that everything is ok, but I can't
kid myself. The one thing thats saving me right now is sleeping
downstairs on the sofa bed, and thats my nephew. He cheers me up.
Anyway, I just wanted to write that because you were so on the mark..
Mel
On Thu, 2 Dec 1999 00:23:25 +1100, "Yvette Campbell"
<y...@somewhere.com> wrote:
>Melissa Torresan wrote
>
>>>>I know nobody appreciates that and nobody cares about my
>>>>opinion anyway..
>
>How can you "know" this? And how dare you say that nobody cares? I have
>seen a hell of a lot of posts responding to yours, Mel...and you yourself
>have acknowledged that our responses have helped you grow as a person - and
>that's the aim of this group...
>
>You have posted frequently in the past, although a lot less lately (see? I
>have noticed!) I have put it down to you having a very hard emotional time
>lately - and I think you are doing a terrific job of working through those
>painful issues...and this group is continuing to help you do that...I just
>don't see why you feel so dissatisfied with the support given to you...
>
>>I still feel to this
>>day that no matter what I do or say here, I'm still an outsider.
>
>And let's face it, Mel - we are outsiders - geographically, culturally, to
>the core of the newsgroup which is based in US and Canada...We simply
>haven't served the years that the more established users have - yet - and
>it's not always easy to "see" each other's situations...
>
>For example, I still don't know what "diss", "bite me" and "glom" mean -
>I've taken a meaning from the surrounding words...
>
>What are you expecting or wanting from the ng? The "sage" status attributed
>to posters like Jane, Vicki or Merrie? The "warmth" of lil? The
>"level-headed" Nikki? The "funnies" Kitley and Kallynn? The
>"straight-down-to-business, tell-it-like-it-is-no-bullshit" of Kim and Anne?
>The psychoanalyse-it-til-it-sh*ts-but-very-in-touch-with-his-feelings Kevin?
>The intellectual eloquence of Erin and Sian?
>
>How do you want to be "seen"? I reckon you should just stick to the
>"sensitive, wears-her-heart-on-her-sleeve Mel...just be yourself, there is
>no competition going on here, we are all different...
>
>>That could be just my own paranoia working on me.
>
>*Could be?* IS!!! <grin>
>
>>There are people here who
>>have been great to me-I won't name names because they should know
>>who they are, but at the same time, I feel like some people
>>automatically skip over anything with my name on it - for whatever
>>reasons.
>
>Hey - I read everything on the ng - but I just cannot physically devote the
>time to responding to every post. There are some 30 "regulars" here now,
>and another 30 who are in and out on an irregular basis...I don't know about
>you, but I keep having to check old posts that I have saved to remind myself
>about each person's current situation...
>
>And I skip over threads and certain people's names *occasionally* - usually
>one of those inane "test" posts, or an analysis-to-the-death, or movies
>(which aren't out here in Oz yet). I make special time for the ice-cream
>posts, however! :>D
>
>>Here at home, I'm feeling totally out of the loop. I might as well not
>>even be here. I feel like BM has finally won and got her way, and I've
>>been swept under the carpet - opinion not noted. I guess it has a lot
>>to do with the agreement she &SO made about me going to pickups
>>and dropoffs - if she can't see me or hear me, I don't exist, and I
>>really feel like I don't exist at the moment, because SO never even
>>told me about that till two weeks later. At the same time, this little
>>voice in my head is screaming "She doesn't matter, and you do exist,
>>and you're here, and she's not"
>
>BINGO!!! This is your problem. The fact that your SO was not honest with
>you for two weeks. While I am sympathetic, I wish that you wouldn't get
>things all out of proportion and read more into the ng and its posters...we
>*do* care, to admittedly varying degrees...
>
>Still, I've been where you are. Finding things out by accident that I was
>never supposed to know, then wasting my emotional energy in trying to undo
>it so that I was included from the start. Sorry Mel - it's a one-way
>street...you can't change the past. You can only change your reaction to
>it.
>
>Make a vow to let it go now. Stop being a victim and take control back.
>Just *accept* that BM is dictating what little she can about your SS's life
>with you - it is obvious to me that is is very jealous of your parenting of
>her child - and she is doing her utmost to undermine that. And by paying
>any mind to her - you are letting her undermine you!
>
>Just be yourself when you have SK in *your* home, where BM has no reign over
>you...and let nature take its course. Your SK knows that you love him from
>your actions towards him, *not* from your reactions to his mother.
>
>>The other thing is, nobody really has any idea what that time between
>>Jane saying what she did, and me waking up, was like for me at all. It
>>was a version of my own personal hell.
>
>True. How can we? But some of us have been there (lil is one that comes to
>mind)...so some of us can imagine how hard that was for you...
>
>>But now that I am here, down
>>the track, and know how much better I was for going through that, I
>>wouldn't change a thing. I keep saying it to everyone, but nobody is
>>listening to me.
>
>Remember that - remember that this ng set you right...And what do you mean
>that you are not being listened to? I think everyone would agree with you -
>it's just that their first responses have made Suzi look inward, and having
>blown that hole in her side, some of us are floating in like tug boats to
>drag her back into the safety of the harbour...
>
>>I think Suzy needs to go through that personal hell
>>thing herself, because she's going to come out a lot better on the
>>other side. But hey, what do I know? I've only been there and done it
>>myself. Maybe other things work for other people. I have no idea, I
>>just know what worked for me.
>
>You are 100% right, Mel. All the ng can do is express opinions and advise.
>It's up to Suzy to take it and run with it - painful as it is. And there's
>a post from her that I have read where she is admitting that things are not
>so rosy, and that it hurts like hell to come to that realisation...
>
>>I'm just about at
>>the point where I am ready to give up on assp. Lots of you have helped
>>me heaps, and I feel I should stay here, but I no longer know if there
>>is anyone here wanting to hear what I have to say at all.
>
>Mel, will you listen to yourself? You are your own worst enemy! *Of
>course* you should stay here. *Of course* your opinion is valued in the mix
>of the ng, just like everyone else's. *Of course* you should go out
>immediately and buy yourself a 2 litre tub of Norgen Vaaz Coffee and
>Chocolate Fudge ice-cream...oh dear, I did it again, I mentioned the
>i-word...
>
>>There's just
>>this overwhelming feeling of "nothing I do or say is right" in just
>>about every part of my life right now.
>
>That's fairly obvious! Don't bite the hand that feeds you, Mel - we want
>you here, we value you and your opinions, and it is not our fault that you
>are going through something of a personal crisis at the moment...Share more,
>tell us the details of how "betrayed" you feel by SO...
>
>Some extra counselling sessions and some anti-depressants would be a great
>idea. You are sounding very depressed at the moment...and I am not blaming
>you, you have a huge amount on your plate, lots of complex issues...just
>acknowledging your tone and letting you know that this is how you are coming
>across...
>
>Other posters have advised you to take a back seat for a while where SK is
>concerned. Personally, nothing would change for me in my relationship with
>that child - except that I wouldn't go to drop-offs or pick-ups as BM
>requested - it's just more "comfortable" all round...and it doesn't give BM
>an opportunity to fault you...and I hope you realise that she'll be on the
>lookout for another way to undermine your relationship with SK, because she
>is *so* jealous of what you achieve with him...
>
>And you have to look inwards to work out what it is that your SO can do to
>appease you for "lying" to you for two weeks. What can he do to regain your
>trust and make you feel secure? Maybe some counselling sessions for both of
>you.
>
>Because *that* is the basic issue that has thrown you against the wall, and
>it is underpinning everything else you have posted here since it happened.
>
>HTH
>Yvette
Anne Robotti
he was asking for. I'm glad you wrote this, Sian.
It's not that I'm not willing to be supportive, I just don't
think it has to be such a big deal. Aren't all of our ICQ
numbers in the FAQ? I mean, I support everybody. Don't we all?
Anne
ICQ# 3935727 if there's anybody left on earth who doesn't have it!
Sian Lee Reid wrote:
>
> > Vicki Robinson wrote in message <821200$jkq$1...@piper.xcski.com>...
> > >In a previous article, "lilblakdog" <lbdcre...@dog.com> said:
> > >
> > >:jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
> > >:news:3844DAEB...@excite.com...
> > >:
> > >:> Oh, for heaven's sake, Kevin. I refuse to be put on the spot.
> > >:> I'm being as supportive as I can be in the thread.
> > >:
> > >:I think Jane's got a great big point here.
> > >
> Being supportive in the thread is a _good_ thing. I think what Kevin
> wants here is an explicit list of people who are willing to do 'above and
> beyond this newsgroup' duty.
>
> There's nothing wrong with not wanting to do it; it certainly doesn't make
> you unsupportive. The fact of the matter remains, however, that some
> people can't, or don't want, or simply are unsuited to do the kind of
> emotional work that is often a fine balance between pastoral counselling
> and suicide prevention, with a complete stranger. There's nothing wrong
> with that. But it is useful to know explicitly who *is* willng and able.
> Prevents you from guessing wrong in a crisis. Makes a very reassuring
> net, even if you never fall.
>
Tracey
Thanks for explaining it to me. Not that it wasn't understandable the
first time (I noticed that I was the only one who said anything.) I'm
sure it was just me not being able to get my brain around it. But, my
4yo has me pretty confused lately. <grin>
lilblakdog
news:slreid-0112...@192.0.2.1...
> I think what Kevin
> wants here is an explicit list of people who are willing to do 'above and
> beyond this newsgroup' duty.
But see, that's where my problem lies. And, like Vicki, I'm not arguing
with you Sian and I may be getting a little unreasonable because I feel as
though I'm being backed into a corner by others. So I should probably just
shut up. But bear with me.
I feel I *did* go above and beyond. But that's between Suzie and I. Now
what you all think of me matters to me. I'm not comfortable with the idea
that I'm either a part of this, or I'm painted as not willing to provide
that kind of support. And I know that you don't see that as a bad thing,
but I do.
It was just an unfortunate situation of a post that's got under my skin.
Merrie
medium isn't the place for it.
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@piper.xcski.com> wrote in message
news:823954$ok1$1...@piper.xcski.com...
. The therapists I know and the ministers also have years
> of training and acceditation under their belts. Anyone who thinks
> that he can come to a newsgroup to get pastoral counseling or suicide
> prevention is fooling himself, and for us to think that we can even
> begin to offer such counseling is extremely foolish and downright
> dangerous. I'm very serious here; friends (and newsgroups) can offer
> advice and discussion, but what you're talking about here, Sian, is
> the province of professionals.
>
> NONE of us are qualified to do this kind of emotional work.
>
>
> :There's nothing wrong
> :with that. But it is useful to know explicitly who *is* willng and able.
> :Prevents you from guessing wrong in a crisis. Makes a very reassuring
> :net, even if you never fall.
> :
>
> Lots of us may be willing, but able is another thing entirely, and
> anyone who comes here in a genuine crisis situation (you mentioned
> suicide) is in the wrong place. And it's not that I feel myself to be
> unable to do this kind of counseling, it's that I *know* that I'm not
> qualified. I'm as good at arm-chair psychoanalysis as anyone else
> around here, but anyone who listens to me as without a giant grain of
> salt is foolish. I'm a smart cookie, plenty of experience, but
> therapy is not my expertise. I've been in therapy a number of times.
> That doesn't qualify me to analyse other people.
>
> This is a newsgroup. This is a disparate group of people with a lot of
> experience in many different things. We can offer each other support
> and advice and commiseration, we can help each other pick things apart
> and give new perspectives on our situations. We can offer friendship
> and illumination. We cannot provide counseling or therapy. We are not
> qualified and it would be irresponsible and possibly dangerous for us
> to do so.
>
Boatinlady
rollercoaster here just now, and I'm the only one riding >>
Mel,
As a semi-newbie (is that a word??), I don't really reply to posts I don't know
much about. I stayed out of the SuzyQ posts quite simply because I WAS cheated
on, and felt I could contribute nothing except my own pain. Suzy didn't need
that, and quite frankly I didn't want to relive it.
I have my own personal rollercoaster right now as well. I know the feeling of
mass confusion. Where do I fit? I'm the evil step-witch. My ss will never
like me. You know..........those kinds of things.
But you know, I've always read your posts and I certainly have to say that I
respect you and what you are going through.
I came into this group expecting that everyone would side with me every time I
had something to vent about. What I got was caring, understanding, and people
who tried (successfully) to make me see things differently.
I haven't been here long, but I sure do appreciate each and every one of the
group!
Pat
Yvette Campbell
Yvette Campbell
jane lawrence
> Sometimes the
> best, most loving support I can give someone is to call down the Bitch
> Goddess and give them hell.
>
> But I'll be *here*, for what it's worth.
>
> More coherent?
>
Yes, actually, that's much clearer.
jane
jane lawrence
>
> To be quite honest, Tracey, its probably both. I still feel to this
> day that no matter what I do or say here, I'm still an outsider.
Mel,
I would email this, but I'm having trouble with my browser and I
might not catch your response for a while.
Are you depressed?
jane
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
Yes. But I am feeling a lot better today.. :) I can feel the tide
turning here..
Mel
>jane
lilblakdog
> When Suzy first came, lil called her "hon."
> I sometimes wish someone had sweet-talked Mel through her
> frustration and redirected her gently.
<smile>
I've never called anybody "hon" in my life. "Dear", "darlin'",
"sweetheart"...sometimes "bitch"...but never "hon".
Somehow it just seemed appropriate for Suzie.
Melissa Torresan
the end. It's important to me, ok? I don't care if you skip my other
posts, but please read this one!
On Fri, 03 Dec 1999 08:50:38 -0800, jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com>
wrote:
>Regarding Mel, I still wish it had worked out differently. I
>waited DAYS for someone else to say it nicely. Then, I did rip
>her a new asshole. When Suzy first came, lil called her "hon."
>I sometimes wish someone had sweet-talked Mel through her
>frustration and redirected her gently.
Jane.. how can I put this in a way that you'll understand it?
Sweet talking would have got absolutely nowhere with me, because to me
it would have seemed like people were agreeing with me. I *needed* to
go through my own personal hell to get the understanding. Fate brought
me to you. Nobody I knew personally would have done it. SO could not
even say anything to me about it. I was so convinced that I was right,
and everyone else was wrong. I was stubborn, bullheaded, whatever you
want to call it. I *still* am stubborn on other issues. Its taken me
ages to listen to Anne about having nothing to do with BM.
And it was hell.. it was a freezing cold day, but I was sweating, I
couldn't stop shaking. When SO came home, I pretended everything was
ok - how could I tell him that I was "abusing" his own child (for
anyone that doesn't know - that was NOT sexual abuse! It was emotional
abuse, which is possibly worse in the long run) - but by the next
morning, he wanted to know what was wrong. I think he could smell the
fear on me. Yep, I was shitscared. Of a lot of things, mainly of
losing SO totally.
BUT I GOT THE HELP I NEEDED. That is the most important thing. I do
not see any other way that would have ended with me at the Psych's. I
was mad at you, Jane.. right up until I realised you were right. Today
- I don't even know what to say to make you realise how I really feel
about this.. I so much value what you did for me. I'd give anything to
do something - ANYTHING for you in return. I hate to think of what
kind of hell I would be putting SK through today if it had not been
for your slap.
That doesn't mean I don't value what everyone else here does for me -
I do. If **any** of you want to come to Australia, you've got your own
personal tour guide right here. If you needed a place to stay, here I
am. If there was one sausage left in the house to eat, I'd give it to
any of you, and go hungry. If you needed a car, here's my keys. If you
saw a spider, I'd kill it for you. If we were walking in the bush and
saw a snake, we'd both stand perfectly still until it went away :) If
a kangaroo decided it wanted your icecream, I'd give it mine. I'd even
spare you the "Australia is a really dangerous place to visit because
there's so many things that can kill you" lecture that usually makes
visitors want to get back on the plane. That goes for all of you.
But for Jane, well, if she decided she wanted to go swimming with
sharks, I'd go with her if she wanted me to - for the rest of you, I'd
let you do that on your own.. thats a very scary thing. Scuba diving
terrifies me (I've done it) and I NEVER swim in the sea.
Does that give you a clue? I *like* the asshole you ripped for me.
It's done. :) and I'll not stop thanking you.. :)
Sian Lee Reid
(Melissa Torresan) wrote:
> If you're reading this, everyone, please keep going till you get to
> the end. It's important to me, ok? I don't care if you skip my other
> posts, but please read this one!
>
Wow Mel, I'm not sure _any_ of us are going to know what to say to that
one! I wouldn't want you to think I didn't read it all the way through
though, so...
Kangaroos like ice cream?
;)
Sian
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
>Wow Mel, I'm not sure _any_ of us are going to know what to say to that
>one! I wouldn't want you to think I didn't read it all the way through
>though, so...
thanks for reading it :)
>Kangaroos like ice cream?
Yep.. I was on Kangaroo Island (aptly named) on this great bus tour
thing. We stopped at this park in the afternoon, and its time for an
icecream :) So I was waiting for my friend to come out of the loo, and
this kangaroo walks up to me, kinda sniffing around, and then it puts
both its front paws on my shoulders, and tries to grab my icecream. I
was going to fight for my icecream, but the tour bus driver comes up
behind me and says "Let him have it.." quite calmly. So I do, and then
it hops away, and the bus driver says to me "Do you know what it would
have done if you didn't give it the icecream?" "No" "Should I tell
you?" "Yeah, at least I think so.." "Well, kangaroos can stand on
their tails only, and if you hadn't handed it over, it would have
boxed you with its rear legs"
I've since found out that if a kangaroo "boxes" a human, its not a
pretty picture.. so the moral of that story is, always give the
kangaroo whatever it's wanting :)
Mel
>;)
>
>Sian
Kevin
<hugs>
Kevin
In article <3846d8ea...@news.bigpond.com>, Melissa Torresan says...
--
Always and never are two words you should always remember never to use.
jane lawrence
>
> It wouldn't matter if anyone *was* a professional therapist - this
> medium isn't the place for it.
I feel very strongly about this. It's also not the place for
legal, medical, or pharmaceutical advice.
jane
jane lawrence
>
> Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> writes
> >
> >I think we do, we all went through that learning process with you, just
> >like everybody did with me, and everybody is with Suzy and everybody
> >does with everybody. I'm not sure what you're saying there, that Suzy
> >needed somebody to be nasty to her? I'll go and retrieve Jane's post
> >to you, but I don't remember it as nasty. Jane rarely is.
>
> 'Nasty' is a bad choice of words. But jane definitely ripped her a
> new asshole. And I don't think there was an inappropriate word in
> her first response to Mel
>
I've been thinking about this. There are so many new posters
here lately, I wonder what they think of all this. Suzy's
thread was hardly typical. From time to time, people do go
through a birth of fire, though.
This has reminded me of Geri's first posts. Frankly, Suzy seems
to be catching on more quickly. No offense intended, Geri.
I'll think you'll agree that your perception of the situation
has changed over time. You've got to admit that Suzy swallowed
the "you need a shrink" pill pretty well.
Regarding Mel, I still wish it had worked out differently. I
waited DAYS for someone else to say it nicely. Then, I did rip
her a new asshole. When Suzy first came, lil called her "hon."
I sometimes wish someone had sweet-talked Mel through her
frustration and redirected her gently.
jane
jane lawrence
> Does that give you a clue? I *like* the asshole you ripped for me.
> It's done. :) and I'll not stop thanking you.. :)
>
Well then, I guess I'll stop torturing myself. You're more than
welcome.
jane