Father's Day
Kathleen and Steve
inexpensive gift for Father's Day. I in no way try to tell her what to get.
I spent less than $15 on the total. She came back today saying the
fiance/step mom to be got upset with her because she didn't tell her in
advance that she was getting her Dad something and as a result she
"cancelled the big plans she had made for them" and did not allow Kayla to
give her Father the gift.
What is my response? I do not know even what to say to my daughter. She
has always gotten her Dad a gift. It's not something new. The step mom to
be wasn't hurt and upset when Kayla gave her a gift for mother's day. I
could understand if it was something big expensive or obviously something I
wanted her to buy him. It was a movie that I never saw and had no interest
in, but one that "he and Kayla both loved" and a cheap frog keychain
"because he loves frogs".
Vicki Robinson
<So, as I do every year, I made sure my daughter got her Dad a card and
<inexpensive gift for Father's Day. I in no way try to tell her what to get.
<I spent less than $15 on the total. She came back today saying the
<fiance/step mom to be got upset with her because she didn't tell her in
<advance that she was getting her Dad something and as a result she
<"cancelled the big plans she had made for them" and did not allow Kayla to
<give her Father the gift.
<
I don't even understand this. What power does the fiancee/SM2B have
to prevent Kayla from giving her father a gift? My DH would laugh in
my face if I tried to prevent his kids from giving him *anything* (a
gift or the flu!), and he'd be right!
I don't understand why the SM2B's upset.
<What is my response? I do not know even what to say to my daughter. She
<has always gotten her Dad a gift. It's not something new. The step mom to
<be wasn't hurt and upset when Kayla gave her a gift for mother's day. I
<could understand if it was something big expensive or obviously something I
<wanted her to buy him. It was a movie that I never saw and had no interest
<in, but one that "he and Kayla both loved" and a cheap frog keychain
<"because he loves frogs".
<
Do you and your ex get along? Call him if you can speak to
each other civilly and tell him that Kayla is very disappointed, and
you'd like to know what went down, since you can't always depend on
the child's version of the truth. Proceed from there. Keep the focus
on your daughter, not on the SM2B, and figure out a way that she can
give her father his Fathers' Day present.
This sounds insane to me.
Vicki
--
Family and Divorce Mediation Resources
http://xcski.com/~mediator/
rebecca
"Kathleen and Steve" <blit...@nospam4me.email.msn.com> wrote in message
news:XyoX6.818$Um3....@eagle.america.net...
> So, as I do every year, I made sure my daughter got her Dad a card and
> inexpensive gift for Father's Day.
I am a SM, I find this very respectful when our BM does this. I know some
on this group think that once a new partner's involved, the new partner
should assume this responsibility.
I in no way try to tell her what to get.
> I spent less than $15 on the total. She came back today saying the
> fiance/step mom to be got upset with her because she didn't tell her in
> advance that she was getting her Dad something and as a result she
> "cancelled the big plans she had made for them" and did not allow Kayla to
> give her Father the gift.
>
> What is my response? I do not know even what to say to my daughter.
This sounds so weird. I think you tell your daughter you are as baffled as
she is, then you call her dad and talk to him. It sounds like SM didn't
think this through in advance, and is probably concerned with building her
own family rituals and bonding, yadda yadda yadda. But "cancelling big
plans" because someone does something you don't like is a serious mark of
petty insecurity, wow. Is this stepmom's first father's day with them? How
old is your daughter? Sounds like she might need some more discussion about
the role her new stepmom will play. Does your ex give her an outlet to ask
questions and raise concerns directly with him? (She might not feel totally
comfortable doing it with you.) I can't help but picture my SS reaction if
I were to try to forbid him something like giving his dad a present, he'd
tell me to go stuff myself. LOL.
My $.02, anyway.
rebecca
Geri and Brian
>on this group think that once a new partner's involved, the new partner
>should assume this responsibility.
Do you think it has to do with the relationship between the parents (or even
who has custody at the time of the holiday)?
I know we didn't get anything for SD to give to BM for Mother's Day - she was
in her mom's custody at the time anyway, but it is pretty doubtful we would
have done so in any case. (It sounds like she got nothing from her other adult
children, too.) For Father's Day, we had custody of SD. I took her out and we
bought the gifts, cards, etc. BM never would have done such a thing and we
probably would have considered it intrusive if she had.
But I know there are lots of parents in this group who usually help the
children by whichever parent's day gift for the other parent. I think in many
cases they have fairly civil relationships with that parent, however.
~~~~~~~~~~
Geri ^ ^
> ' ' <
~~~~~~~~~~
Kathleen and Steve
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:9gl53m$ug0$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
I think we found a solution, which is for Kayla to keep the movie for
herself and give Dad the keychain at a later date. You know, a "here Dad I
got this for you the other day" thing.
I am really hesitant to bring it up to her Dad, because he will think I am
trying to be involved in his new relationship, or rock the boat anyway. She
didn't seem too upset, I think she just feels bad about the whole thing. I
think she just accepts these quirks as part of the package, and she really
does like the SM2B.
With hope and heart,
Kathleen
Kathleen and Steve
> > So, as I do every year, I made sure my daughter got her Dad a card and
> > inexpensive gift for Father's Day.
>
> I am a SM, I find this very respectful when our BM does this. I know some
> on this group think that once a new partner's involved, the new partner
> should assume this responsibility.
>
> I in no way try to tell her what to get.
> > I spent less than $15 on the total. She came back today saying the
> > fiance/step mom to be got upset with her because she didn't tell her in
> > advance that she was getting her Dad something and as a result she
> > "cancelled the big plans she had made for them" and did not allow Kayla
to
> > give her Father the gift.
> This sounds so weird. I think you tell your daughter you are as baffled
as
> she is, then you call her dad and talk to him. It sounds like SM didn't
> think this through in advance, and is probably concerned with building her
> own family rituals and bonding, yadda yadda yadda. But "cancelling big
> plans" because someone does something you don't like is a serious mark of
> petty insecurity, wow. Is this stepmom's first father's day with them?
How
> old is your daughter? Sounds like she might need some more discussion
about
> the role her new stepmom will play. Does your ex give her an outlet to
ask
> questions and raise concerns directly with him? (She might not feel
totally
> comfortable doing it with you.) I can't help but picture my SS reaction
if
> I were to try to forbid him something like giving his dad a present, he'd
> tell me to go stuff myself. LOL.
> My $.02, anyway.
> rebecca
I do kinda feel like it is my job to encourage her in this area. We are a
holiday/gift/card family, and always will be. In the past there were a
couple times that I left the gift thing up to the girlfriend (different one
than now) and it didn't get done and then I felt bad.
This is the Stepmom's first Father's day with them. She also had a horrible
childhood, Mom ran off, Dad died at the age of 12 and she was raised in an
orphanage... or something like that. So she seems to not have a lot of
emphasis on family - quite understandably. However, she does seem to be
loving, after all they have about 20 different animals over there, sugar
gliders, couple dogs, cat, snake, etc and I'm thinking you really have to
have a lot of love in your heart to take care of all those critters!
And, Kayla did mention that while SM was gone she mentioned to her Dad that
he was the only one who was hurt by the whole incident. So, I'm thinking I
should just stay out of it and let them work it out themselves.
Geri and Brian
>interest
>> <in, but one that "he and Kayla both loved" and a cheap frog keychain
>> <"because he loves frogs".
I can't see what the problem is. Did she want to see the movie at the same
time as the SM2B's plans? That is the only place I could see a problem. If
so, couldn't they just see the movie another day?
Kathleen and Steve
Well, Kayla's Dad and I used to have a civil relationship, although he
rarely (maybe 2x in 7 years) made sure she got me a gift on holidays. But I
always have. So I don't know if I should change my actions (quit
encouraging her to get them something) or not. You hit the nail on the head
Geri - I am wondering if this was seen as intrusive on my part, or maybe
there are more details that I don't know about. Maybe Kayla said "Well I
got Dad a gift while I was with *my mom*" or something like that.
hugs, Kathleen
PS. They are getting married too! She has a ring, and a date next month.
Kayla is going to walk her down the aisle and is very excited about it!
Geri and Brian
>encouraging her to get them something) or not. You hit the nail on the head
>Geri - I am wondering if this was seen as intrusive on my part, or maybe
>there are more details that I don't know about.
That is what I wonder, too - it seems there is more to the story. How is your
relationship with the SM (or how does she relate to you, maybe)?
rebecca
"Geri and Brian" <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote in message
news:20010618112749...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> Do you think it has to do with the relationship between the parents (or
even
> who has custody at the time of the holiday)?
Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure you could describe us as particularly civil.
And I'm not motivated by niceness, BM is so spiteful and patronizing to SO
that I really like the idea that once or twice a year she's reminded that
her precious child would not exist without SO. This year she actually added
a _card_ (gasp!) to the box of candy.
[Okay, yes, I'm a little mean sometimes. SS also arrived yesterday with a
moldy, wet, sand-filled plastic bag of clothes - would it -kill- her to wash
things once in a while?]
At some point, I'll start asking SS whether he's planning to shop with his
mom or wants me to do it, he's becoming more aware of these things - up
until yesterday, on holidays he would run into the house and throw something
at SO, saying "mom bought this for you!" Yesterday, he carefully explained
each present to his dad, including whether it was from HIM, HIM and the DOG,
HIM and ME or HIM, ME and the DOG.
Kathleen and Steve
I talked with the SM at first, but there were a couple incidents that really
hurt me. I know, you want to know what they are so here goes (but I may
have wrote them here before)...
The first one was Kayla's first band concert. They had custody that day.
My Mom, who has always gotten along wonderfully with Kayla's Dad and
previous girlfriends, drove 1.5 hours to be there. After the concert there
was a reception. We looked for Kayla but they had snatched her up and
rushed her home. I was mad. He could have mentioned it to me that they had
to leave ASAP. I couldn't believe they did that to my Mom, mostly because
it hurt Kayla most of all and I would NEVER do that to his family.
then - I had always wanted to get Kayla's ears pierced but he never wanted
them to be. So I respected that and waited for him to agree. He finally
decided he was going to get her ears peirced. So we discussed it and
decided we would all go. This was one of the "firsts" that I had always
looked forward to. Christmas Eve he called me and told me, quite by
surprise, that if I wanted to be there to meet them at the mall in 30 min.
(a 45 min drive). I was really upset. I did blame the SM. I know that was
wrong but at the time I was just really hurt and pissed. I felt they both
disrespected me. I feel if they are going to do things like get body parts
pierced, hair permed, hair colored, go on dates, that I should be consulted,
even that my agreement is required. I feel when they do these things it is
trying to win Kayla's favor, and make me (who they know will not agree to
most of those changes) out to be the "bad guy".
So, when this stuff started to happen I pretty much quit dealing with SM and
my relationship with ex has really deteriorated. I know it's partially my
fault. I tried to "fix" things but it doesn't look like there is any fixing
to do. So, for now, I just keep on like I always have and try to focus on
my behavior. I try to blow off all the craziness that Kayla claims goes on
over there, since she isn't being hurt I figure I need to just stay out of
it all. After all, she tells me as many good things as she does bad things.
She is excited about the wedding and they are including her. etc. I don't
call the ex, and I don't call their house. We no longer consider the same
things important. I'm sure you get the idea.
I just have to say, in my defense, that I do try to work on releasing the
resentments that have built up along the way. It seems sometimes that I am
successful and wish them nothing but hapiness. If this woman is insecure
she has no reason to be and I have never given reason to think I care about
the ex in any special way other than the father of my child. Because I
don't. We weren't good together, and I have never regretted saying goodbye,
or marrying my husband. We are pretty darn happy together!
And that is the core of the problem. I can't fix it on my own and am
unwilling to admit that I am the one who is wrong every time. They take it
as a major offense when I don't agree with them on every little thing. And
it offends me when either of them try to tell me how I should parent her
over here. I could give specific examples but it just brings the residuals
bubbling up. All unimportant petty things anyway.
What else can I say? The only thing that relates to this particular
incident, is that when Kayla wanted to get her SM2B a Mother's day gift and
card that I encouraged her to, and took her by their house so she could
leave it for her (which is what she wanted to do and didn't seem to cause
any problems - they were gone at the time.) So maybe she secretly hated it
too and if so, I'm glad she was able to put her feelings aside that time.
rebecca
> Well, Kayla's Dad and I used to have a civil relationship, although he
> rarely (maybe 2x in 7 years) made sure she got me a gift on holidays. But
I
> always have. So I don't know if I should change my actions (quit
> encouraging her to get them something) or not. You hit the nail on the
head
> Geri - I am wondering if this was seen as intrusive on my part, or maybe
> there are more details that I don't know about. Maybe Kayla said "Well I
> got Dad a gift while I was with *my mom*" or something like that.
> hugs, Kathleen
> PS. They are getting married too! She has a ring, and a date next month.
> Kayla is going to walk her down the aisle and is very excited about it!
>
Right, but even if she did say something awful, IMO, this is one of those
times when the stepparent should allow the child some latitude. If Kayla
enjoys shopping for her father's day gifts with you and you don't mind, why
force a change? It's not like you're inconsistent, so dad's going to always
get something. Or both of you (you and SM) could do it - dad's "family
gift" could get picked out by SM and Kayla, and you and Kayla could get him
something just from her. Or call dad - even if just to ask him what he
wants to do - "hey, dad, Kayla said there was a problem, maybe we could talk
about who's going to help her shop for these things."
SM needs to walk carefully, here, if Kayla sees certain activities as part
of your role, and SM just starts forcing her way in, there's trouble
a'brewin.
Kathleen and Steve
> > Do you think it has to do with the relationship between the parents (or
> even
> > who has custody at the time of the holiday)?
>
> Oh, I don't know. I'm not sure you could describe us as particularly
civil.
> And I'm not motivated by niceness, BM is so spiteful and patronizing to SO
> that I really like the idea that once or twice a year she's reminded that
> her precious child would not exist without SO. This year she actually
added
> a _card_ (gasp!) to the box of candy.
>
> [Okay, yes, I'm a little mean sometimes. SS also arrived yesterday with a
> moldy, wet, sand-filled plastic bag of clothes - would it -kill- her to
wash
> things once in a while?]
>
> At some point, I'll start asking SS whether he's planning to shop with his
> mom or wants me to do it, he's becoming more aware of these things - up
That sounds like a great solution! A way I can still be encouraging toward
her getting things for all her family members without being intrusive. Or
encourage her to ask her SM if they are going to shop together or if she
should do it over here.
hugs, Kathleen
Geri and Brian
>incident, is that when Kayla wanted to get her SM2B a Mother's day gift and
>card that I encouraged her to, and took her by their house so she could
>leave it for her (which is what she wanted to do and didn't seem to cause
>any problems - they were gone at the time.) So maybe she secretly hated it
>too and if so, I'm glad she was able to put her feelings aside that time.
Actually, after reading your post, you sound like a pretty cool BM to me. None
of us is perfect all the time in these things. As far as the Fathers' Day
incident, I don't see that you or Kayla did anything wrong. I guess if you
really want to know, maybe calling the ex to find out what SM's perception of
the problem is (or call the SM) or else maybe just let it go, as you mentioned.
Nikki
Kathleen and Steve wrote:
> So, as I do every year, I made sure my daughter got her Dad a card and
> inexpensive gift for Father's Day. I in no way try to tell her what to get.
> I spent less than $15 on the total. She came back today saying the
> fiance/step mom to be got upset with her because she didn't tell her in
> advance that she was getting her Dad something and as a result she
> "cancelled the big plans she had made for them" and did not allow Kayla to
> give her Father the gift.
I can totally get how someone without her own children, and new to the
stepparenting relationship could misinterpret this gift as being from an ex-wife
to her ex-husband rather than seeing it for what it *really* is and that's a
gift from the child to her father. Not a great long-term plan, but to my mind,
understandable in the beginning where nobody is sure where the boundaries are.
> What is my response? I do not know even what to say to my daughter. She
> has always gotten her Dad a gift. It's not something new. The step mom to
> be wasn't hurt and upset when Kayla gave her a gift for mother's day.
That time it was easier. While to you it's the same thing (your daughter wanting
to get a gift for someone while you provide the opportunity and the money) to
the stepmother it's different. She wanted to see acceptance from your daughter
of her on Mother's Day, and so was able to overlook that you made that present
'happen' in one way or another. This time, when the gift is for Dad, suddenly
the fact that you paid for the present and provided the opportunity are at the
forefront of her mind.
> I
> could understand if it was something big expensive or obviously something I
> wanted her to buy him. It was a movie that I never saw and had no interest
> in, but one that "he and Kayla both loved" and a cheap frog keychain
> "because he loves frogs".
I think in some families ex-partners continue to buy presents for their ex, from
the children and it works. In others, take mine, I'm the only 'mother' anywhere
who's made a fuss of my DH on Father's Day, or his birthday, from the children.
My stepson's mother never bothered when he lived with her, and my stepdaughter's
mother didn't bother until she got over her anger. I also think that in some
families it is maybe appropriate for the new partner to take on the
'responsibility' of providing the gifts away from the ex-partner. It's difficult
to make a blanket rule, IMO.
In your last paragraph you clearly recognise that there would be some
circumstances in which you could get a present for your ex (in the guise of
'from our daughter') that would be totally inappropriate. For example, you
mention an 'expensive' present, or something that 'you want to buy him'
yourself.
I think that your child's stepmother has mistaken some *very* appropriate
Mom-taking-child-to-buy-Dad-a-present for exactly the sort of inappropriateness
that you've mentioned above. A misunderstanding, as it were.
Maybe the SM just wasn't expecting you to take care of it and had already done
it herself. Maybe she realised when your daughter turned up with a gift that SM
was a fool for getting so carried away.
Either way, I think it's great that you assist your daughter in getting her
father a present. I also think it's great that the SM had made plans for
Father's Day to spoil her husband (after all he isn't yet father to any of her
children) - and she'd planned to include your daughter.
I think that maybe a call or note to the SM would be in order. I'd favour a call
as it can't be misinterpreted! Say that you were sorry to find out she'd already
taken care of the Dad-present-buying when you'd already helped your daughter get
something. Explain that you still buy these presents because your daughter wants
to, not because you want to send gifts to your ex. Perhaps suggest that you and
SM collude in future so that a: you are still able to buy presents for your ex
with your daughter if your daughter happens to spot something that she wants to
get for him AND b: SM takes your daughter on an outing before Father's Day to
get him a present at that point too.
I think if you can be gracious, totally non-threatening on the 'getting MY
child's Father a gift from HER' front, and make it clear that you're totally
behind SM developing her own 'Fathers Day' traditions (which will, of course,
include your daughter) that you guys could have some very positive resolution on
this matter that would pave the way for the future.
I, on the other hand, am in the opposite situation. I always took care of
Father's Day from my SD as her mother never did. I'm very glad to say that since
SD was about 6 and able to demand to buy a card and a stamp, she's done it
herself, with the aid of her mother. However, it's gone on so far that SD likes
to buy me, my SS, my DH and my new daughter presents for all birthdays and
Xmases! I'm about at the point where I'm wondering whether to call up my SD's BM
and offer to give her some cash (she's a little broke) to cover it :-)
Nikki
John Durden
> Do you think it has to do with the relationship between the parents
this is the problem in our situation, SO would be happy if BM fell off the face of
the earth. She's remarried now but still feels a need to be involved in his life as
a "family". Which they aren't anymore. that's just the way they are, before me so
don't blame me for it. He's a family with the boys, and she can be a family with
the boys if she wants but he wants no part of her, now or ever. He's told her this
again and again and again, but she refuses to listen. this father's day she went
and bought him a hilfigre shirt (which he has always expressed his HATRED for so
why she would get it is beyond me!) and took it to his moms (the boys had no part
in picking it out at all, it was 100% her!) so when he went to his parents he had
this present, that he didn't want, from someone he didn't want anything from, so he
took it by her house (kncocked but wouldn't answer the door or come around the
house even though we saw them in the back yard when we pulled up) and left it on
the porch, then his mom gets a phone call from her saying how upset she and the
boys are (which is funny because at that time she hasn't seen or heard from the
boys, so how would she know even if they were upset, which we just left them with
his mom this morning and they weren't upset in the slightest) then sends us a nasty
email talking about how can he live with himself refusing presents from his
children and he didn't even take the card and how they will (her her husband and
who ever else she thinks she can speak for) remember that next holiday, what kind
of a person he is that he won't take what his children give him. Now I had no part
in his returning it, even though to say the least I was very pissed off. SHe's been
told a thousand times not to, and there for it was not her place, yet she says its
their responsibility as parents to do that and she's not going to stop. This pisses
me off. and I'm sure you all think there is no right for me to be upset but I am. I
had the boys make him a big card, they got him a nice frame with pictures of them
and a shirt with tropical fish (what he does for a living). I made these plans
(taking them to buy the stuff and having them pick out pictures etc.) a month ago
and she (according to the recpit) goes out and buys shit the day before without the
boys with her even and then gets pissy (again after she's been told under no
circumstances to do this) and trys to tell john he's a bad father for not taking
the present that was in no way shape or form from those boys, the card was even
signed with her name not the boys. so anyway... I definitely feel like her doing
that is infringing on OUR home life. in our home, we make the plans. and I felt
very upset, that the BM tried once again to force her way in using the children as
an excuse. I'm not saying that's what you tried to do, but maybe that's how she
saw it. She had gone to alot of trouble to make special plans and then figured why
bother you were going to go and do it for her no matter what. I don't see why she
was mad with your daughter though, I would never be upset with the boys for
something their mother did. ANd neither would John, he would take the gift (if she
had the boys deliver it, which she didn't) and then later put it in a paper bag or
something so they wouldn't see it and return it to her that way, so he wouldn't
hurt their feelings,
Kathleen and Steve
That is just plain ridiculous. I don't understand these type of people, and
I suppose only the reasonable types hang out here to begin with. I can
understand you being pissed off, in fact I would be offended if I or my
husband received anything that was so obviously from the ex.
I'm not saying that's what you tried to do, but maybe that's how she
> saw it. She had gone to alot of trouble to make special plans and then
figured why
> bother you were going to go and do it for her no matter what. I don't see
why she
> was mad with your daughter though, I would never be upset with the boys
for
> something their mother did. ANd neither would John, he would take the gift
(if she
> had the boys deliver it, which she didn't) and then later put it in a
paper bag or
> something so they wouldn't see it and return it to her that way, so he
wouldn't
> hurt their feelings,
In this case I made no special plans for him, I let my daughter pick out a
$10 movie that I had never seen or ever had any intention of seeing (it was
"Anaconda"). It had nothing to do with me except that I went along with it
and provided the $. SM2B didn't take her shopping for his birthday either,
so he didn't get anything from her on that occasion (it was during holiday
visitation and I forgot all about it otherwise I would have mentioned it to
her then.) Whatever her special plans were, they were not shared with my
daughter. Furthermore, she told her SM2B on Tuesday that she had a gift for
him, but on Thursday she was informed that it ruined her plans and Father's
Day would be cancelled, and she hoped Kayla had saved her receipts.
At this point I quit feeling bad about it. Why anyone married would still
behave the way your hubby's ex does is beyond me. That's just plain crazy.
Anne Robotti
different people. My personal feeling is, if you've expressed to someone
that you would rather they didn't give you a gift, and they do it anyway,
that is very intrusive behavior.
I think a lot of exes (men and women) do this as a control thing, or to
make a point with the step-parent.
I think any arrangement is fine, as long as both the giving and receiving
party are fine with it. If BM and DH had arranged that they would help
SD shop for each other's gifts, I would get okay with it and assume it was
none of my business. In your situation, I'd be spitting NAILS.
Anne
Anne Robotti
But I'm just wondering, is it possible that this is just some kind of
misunderstanding? Did she think it would now be her responsibility,
and was she maybe looking forward to that? I always did. She might
feel the exact *opposite* way that you do, that her plans had been
ruined on purpose and that you did it to be mean. Not that you did,
but she might feel this way.
She cancelled Father's Day? Pretty neat trick. That must have hurt
your daughter, and I'm sorry.
Anne
Geri and Brian
>face of
>the earth. She's remarried now but still feels a need to be involved in his
>life as
>a "family". Which they aren't anymore. that's just the way they are, before
>me so
>don't blame me for it. He's a family with the boys, and she can be a family
>with
>the boys if she wants but he wants no part of her, now or ever.
That is the same deal with have.
> He's told her
>this
>again and again and again, but she refuses to listen. this father's day she
>went
>and bought him a hilfigre shirt (which he has always expressed his HATRED for
>so
>why she would get it is beyond me!) and took it to his moms (the boys had no
>part
>in picking it out at all, it was 100% her!) >so when he went to his parents he
>had
>this present, that he didn't want, from someone he didn't want anything from,
>so he
>took it by her house (kncocked but wouldn't answer the door or come around
>the
>house even though we saw them in the back yard when we pulled up) and left it
>on
>the porch,
That's what I would have done, too, if I had been him. In fact, I was thinking
it before I got this far in the post.
In your husband's shoes, I would send the BM a letter (send it return receipt
so she has to sign for it and you know she has gotten it - then she can't claim
otherwise later) telling her in no uncertain terms my feelings about receiving
gifts from her (yes, again) and even acknowledging that in no way could this
shirt have been from them, since they were with you. Then every time she sends
something, I would send it right back to her with a copy of the letter.
Hopefully, eventually she will get tired of it.
Wendy
Kathleen and Steve <blit...@nospam4me.email.msn.com> wrote:
>This is the Stepmom's first Father's day with them. She also had a horrible
>childhood, Mom ran off, Dad died at the age of 12 and she was raised in an
>orphanage... or something like that. So she seems to not have a lot of
>emphasis on family - quite understandably. However, she does seem to be
>loving, after all they have about 20 different animals over there, sugar
>gliders, couple dogs, cat, snake, etc and I'm thinking you really have to
>have a lot of love in your heart to take care of all those critters!
>And, Kayla did mention that while SM was gone she mentioned to her Dad that
>he was the only one who was hurt by the whole incident. So, I'm thinking I
>should just stay out of it and let them work it out themselves.
>With hope and heart,
>Kathleen
I think that's the way to go, because Kayla is the one who has to learn to
live with them and develop a relationship with them. Perhaps next time, she
could ring the SM in advance and just clarify that she wants to do something
herself for her Dad, or find out what the SM has planned and make sure her
own plans won't conflict.
I think as BM you can facilitate your children by enabling them to choose a
gift on their own. Well, that's what I do. I gave each of my daughters
money so that they could get something for their father. Madeleine, aged
10, chose a colourful spiral for hanging in his garden and Louise, aged 15,
bought him chocolate and Lynx aftershave.
Interestingly, Louise was a bit angry that he wasn't coming over to pick them
up until supper time. She felt that as it was father's day they should spend
it with their father. I sometimes think that because he doesn't place great
precedent on these occasions he fails to see that the children do.
On Sunday we went to the Peace Festival in Leamington and the youngest bought
a little present for my partner also. We're very careful to stress that he's
not their father, but they do care about him and feel concern that he isn't
able to see/be with his own children.
Wendy
jane
>From: Anne Robotti arob...@lightspeedcommunications.net
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 18:05:36 -0400
>
>
>You're going to get a lot of different opinions about this from a lot of
>different people.
Here's mine.
Why on earth would anyone even get into this? Don't you have anything better
to do than argue with someone about whether or not they can give you a shirt?
You can't tell BM not to buy gifts from the kids. If she feels that it's her
responsibility to make sure that the kids have an appropriate gift for their
father, then that's what she's gonna do.
Besides that, even assuming that this is a "control thing," there's no way you
can refuse the gift without appearing petty and churlish. The worst thing to
do is to fall into her plans and react, because then you end up being the bad
guy. Now he's the father that threw his Fathers' Day present back in his
children's faces.
If you just ignore this stuff, thank the kids for the shirt, and deny BM the
gratification of a reaction, then you're gracious and she's out $65. Then you
can come here and complain about her to people who understand how you feel.
jane
Kathleen and Steve
> misunderstanding? Did she think it would now be her responsibility,
> and was she maybe looking forward to that? I always did. She might
> feel the exact *opposite* way that you do, that her plans had been
> ruined on purpose and that you did it to be mean. Not that you did,
> but she might feel this way.
Yes it is possible. I have only heard Kayla's "side" of the story. Not
that I think she would lie to me, but she has been known to leave certain
relevant facts out. <g> She may have thought I did it on purpose to ruin
her day... no telling what is going through her mind and I don't want to
exacerbate the whole thing by calling - which is usually what happens when I
stick my nose in where it doesn't belong.
> She cancelled Father's Day? Pretty neat trick. That must have hurt
> your daughter, and I'm sorry.
>
> Anne
Yeah, I hate watching her be hurt. It's good practice in letting her go...
out in the real world I guess. Having a kid (and especially when you share
custody of said kid) is just like tearing your heart out of your chest and
watching it grow arms and legs and cruise around out in the world. I always
loved that expression.
Well, off to our beach house on the Texas coast. Whooooooohooooooo!
Flo...@onramp.net
I'm sorry that he feels should fall off the face of the Earth, but I'm sure
his sons wouldn't appreciate it if she did: that's their Mother. He
obvioiusly felt good enough about her at one time to make CHILDREN with
her. She spread her legs, he put his penis in, and children were the
consequence. He has to get over his bitterness or whatever the shit is
bothering him enough to do right by his sons, and that includes not
alienating their Mother. He needs to take responsibility for his own
actions and say: Hey! I made kids with her and do right by his own kids.
It sounds as if he has a big psychological problem because he is not
together with their Mother anymore, or else he's really immature. He should
just try to deal with his kids and not try to demonstrate any hostility or
anythign towards their Mother.
"John Durden" <john...@earthlink.com> wrote in message
news:3B2E6EBB...@earthlink.com...
John Durden
jane wrote:
>
> Why on earth would anyone even get into this? Don't you have anything better
> to do than argue with someone about whether or not they can give you a shirt?
she has been told over and over again that he doesn't want anything from her
that's why. You let her get by with this and she'll be back hassling him to go on
dates with her (and yes she's done that since she was married) If you let her
slide with one thing every thing goes to hell. He told her no, she did it anyway.
As far as he's concerned (which I think his feelings would be more important than
hers on this matter seeing as how it's HIM getting the gift) it is not her
responsibility it ceased to be HER responsibility when he divorced her.
> You can't tell BM not to buy gifts from the kids. If she feels that it's her
> responsibility to make sure that the kids have an appropriate gift for their
> father, then that's what she's gonna do.
I make sure the children have an appropriate gift for their father. Gifts that
they (even though they are young) are involved in somehow, I don't go to the mall
and buy something without them, that they don't even know about and then sign the
card with my own name. We've been very hesitant to get a restraining order on her,
but if she starts this again (like she does on holidays) we will. so no that's NOT
what she''s gonna do.
> Besides that, even assuming that this is a "control thing," there's no way you
> can refuse the gift without appearing petty and churlish. The worst thing to
> do is to fall into her plans and react, because then you end up being the bad
> guy. Now he's the father that threw his Fathers' Day present back in his
> children's faces.
No he didn't throw anything back in the children's faces, when she dropped it off
she didn't even ask to have it shown it to them or have them told who it was for,
they were none the wiser (we asked his mom exactly what she said when she dropped
it off) So he's not throwing anything back in their faces. He accepted the
presents form them with much joy so don't start that. the card that they worked
hard on to make and the shirt that I carried around the store for 2 hours while
they looked at every other one in there before they made up their minds. what they
gave him he took and loved it, not what he got from his Ex-wife under the pretense
of it being from the boys.
> If you just ignore this stuff, thank the kids for the shirt, and deny BM the
> gratification of a reaction, then you're gracious and she's out $65. Then you
> can come here and complain about her to people who understand how you feel.
that's not the way it works with her. You accept one thing than she thinks she and
john should be going to dinner 3 nights a week and going to see movies and have
family pictures taken together, then it's "well I think we can still work things
out if we try, it's not too late". (she seems to temporarily forget she's married
and pregnant (YES AGAIN {supposedly}) with her new husband's baby.) you can't let
one thing slide with her or the peace you've worked so hard to build over the
months and months is gone, consistence is a big thing with dealing with her.
> jane
Jennifer
Geri and Brian
>> to do than argue with someone about whether or not they can give you a
>shirt?
>He told her no, she did it anyway.
It is about overstepping boundaries. The shirt is just issue is just a symtom
of the problem.
>We've been very hesitant to get a restraining order on her,
>but if she starts this again (like she does on holidays) we will. so no
>that's NOT
>what she''s gonna do.
This might be tricky, but it is a form of harassment. I would guess you would
probably have to convince the judge that the children are not in any way
involved in these "gifts".
>that's not the way it works with her.
We have had to take a hard line approach with our BM as well. If we even throw
her a crumb of anything more than frigidly polite business attitude with her,
it blurs the boundaries too much for her, it seems. And that is what it is all
about with women like this, I think - inability or unwillingness to acknowledge
a boundary.
~~~~~~~~
Geri ^ ^
> ' ' <
"Whistling women and cackling hens
always come to no good end."
~~~~~~~~~
John Durden
Flo...@onramp.net wrote:
> They'll always be a family since they are linked together by these boys.
> I'm sorry that he feels should fall off the face of the Earth, but I'm sure
> his sons wouldn't appreciate it if she did: that's their Mother. He
> obvioiusly felt good enough about her at one time to make CHILDREN with
> her. She spread her legs, he put his penis in, and children were the
> consequence. He has to get over his bitterness or whatever the shit is
> bothering him enough to do right by his sons, and that includes not
> alienating their Mother. He needs to take responsibility for his own
> actions and say: Hey! I made kids with her and do right by his own kids.
>
> It sounds as if he has a big psychological problem because he is not
> together with their Mother anymore, or else he's really immature. He should
> just try to deal with his kids and not try to demonstrate any hostility or
> anythign towards their Mother.
you obviously have never ever in your life had to deal with a woman like this, I
think we all know how children are made but thanks alot for the lesson. he may
have had feelings for her once, but her lying, stealing and cheating on him
pretty much did away with any trace of that. Just because you love someone at
one time, doesn't mean you have to by law love them for ever, neither does
having children with them mean that they need to be a part of your life for
ever. they may have kids together, but she is not part of his family, and he
wants no part of hers. the way he felt about her "at one time" is irrelevant.
it's not like she's finding out for the first time that he doesn't want her ass.
I think she is the one with the problem and who is being immature, by trying to
force this on someone that doesn't want it, and then using her children as an
excuse. He does right by his sons every day. He takes care of them every day,
not her, he takes care of them when she would rather go party or something than
have her children. he takes full financial responsibility for them too (at this
point anyway we are working on that) she does not now, nor has she ever paid one
Cent in child support, helped one cent with tuition or day care or anything.
We've ended up dishing out more money to her for things for the boys than she
has to us (and we have full custody, she gets them every other holiday and 2
weekends a month which she usually trys to weasel out of) So you should read up
on a situation before you go running at the mouth about someone not doing right
by their kids. She is not a part of his life for a reason. those kids look at
her as nothing more than a way to get as much candy as possible. aside from that
they don't even want to talk to her on the phone anymore, because she lies to
them and uses them to get what SHE wants, over and over again and they are
starting to catch on that to her they are nothing more than a way to get to
daddy. they go over to her house they scream and yell she gives them candy so
they'll shut up and they go away. she wants them around because she thinks that
it makes her look good to her new husband (who says he hates people that treat
their children like baggage) JOhn has responsibility for his kids, he has
custody not her so where in the hell you get off saying he doesn't take
responsibility for them I'm not sure. you come live one day ONE DAY in my house
and try telling me he shouldn't demonstrate any hostility towards her
Jennifer
John Durden
Geri and Brian wrote:
> It is about overstepping boundaries. The shirt is just issue is just a symtom
> of the problem.
exactly
> >We've been very hesitant to get a restraining order on her,
> >but if she starts this again (like she does on holidays) we will. so no
> >that's NOT
> >what she''s gonna do.
>
> This might be tricky, but it is a form of harassment. I would guess you would
> probably have to convince the judge that the children are not in any way
> involved in these "gifts".
that shouldn't be too hard. she left the receipt in the bag and we photocopied it
with the fax machine before john took it back to her. it's a credit card purchase
made on a day after more than two weeks of her not having seen or spoken to the
boys. They didn't know what she bought, they weren't told that she had bought
anything, they had no involvement in it and had no idea that anything had been
bought at all. everything was signed "Jennifer Durden" (yeah she refuses to change
her name to the new husbands name, apparently she's keeping john's last name)
nothing was signed from the boys. and the card (which we scanned in and saved) was
a mother to father type card and not a child to father type card. when their nana
gave john the bag the present was in they actually thought it was a birthday
present for ashton (whose b day is at the end of the month) that's how little they
knew about what she had done. (john put it right in the trunk nd they forgot all
about it as after we told them it wasn't for them. lol. I don't see how this could
be construed in any other way than a gift from her
> ~~~~~~~~
> Geri ^ ^
> > ' ' <
Jennifer
Lauralee Adams
rebecca wrote:
>
> I am a SM, I find this very respectful when our BM does this. I know some
> on this group think that once a new partner's involved, the new partner
> should assume this responsibility.
My DH and his ex's informal arrangement has been that they each take the
kids shopping for gifts for each other for Father's and Mother's Day,
Christmas and their birthdays. This year, we spent 3 months (every other
weekend) encouraging the kids to buy Mother's Day and birthday gifts for
their mom, helped them to wrap the gifts and ensured that they were
delivered at the appropriate time. Imagine my surprise when the girls
showed up at our house last weekend without Father's Day gifts for DH.
No warning, no discussion or notification that she wanted to handle
things differently. They had made some crafts in Sunday School (at our
church, not hers), and the ex had unilaterally decided that that let her
off the hook for providing gifts and cards. Never mind that the oldest
girl was visibly uncomfortable about not having anything else to give
her dad; never mind that the middle girl had intended (said so after
making it) to keep the box she made, and did in fact end up keping it.
So I took them out to buy gifts and cards for DH, and I footed the bill
as their saving accounts were depleted from having bought stuff for
their mom.
Sorry, this seems to have turned into a rant. Does anyone have any ideas
as to how I could handle this? Do I write to the ex and ask her if she
intends to alter their previous arrangement? Do I just wait and see what
happens on his birthday, and assume the arrangement is changed if she
doesn't help them shop for him then? I should say that the corollary of
my taking on the responsibility of taking the kids shopping for DH is
that I would then have no intention of take them shopping for her - if
she wants me to handle gift-giving for DH, that's fine (I'd actually
enjoy helping the kids shop for DH a LOT more than shopping for their
mom), but her husband can then make sure the kids get gifts for her. I
know that communication regarding the kids should be between DH and his
ex, but he doesn't know that she did this, and it seems that I should be
involved in the discussion in some way since I'm the one who would be
taking on this responsibility.
Thanks in advance for any suggestions...
Lee
PS: I think the OP was perfectly correct in following established
procedure by helping her child buy a gift for her father. If the ex or
the SM2B wanted to change the way things were handled, they should have
called her ahead of time to discuss the situation.
Wendy
>Sorry, this seems to have turned into a rant. Does anyone have any ideas
>as to how I could handle this? Do I write to the ex and ask her if she
>intends to alter their previous arrangement? Do I just wait and see what
>happens on his birthday, and assume the arrangement is changed if she
>doesn't help them shop for him then? I should say that the corollary of
>my taking on the responsibility of taking the kids shopping for DH is
>that I would then have no intention of take them shopping for her - if
>she wants me to handle gift-giving for DH, that's fine (I'd actually
>enjoy helping the kids shop for DH a LOT more than shopping for their
>mom), but her husband can then make sure the kids get gifts for her. I
>know that communication regarding the kids should be between DH and his
>ex, but he doesn't know that she did this, and it seems that I should be
>involved in the discussion in some way since I'm the one who would be
>taking on this responsibility.
>Thanks in advance for any suggestions...
Lee, what I'd do is talk to the kids. Don't say anything about the BM,
just suggest that maybe they could ring you in advance and let you know
if they've dealt with it with their BM and her husband. I wouldn't get
into a tit for tat exchange, because it seems to me that the real losers
in these things are the kids.
Wendy
Melody R Baugher
wrote:
>
>"Lauralee Adams" <ler...@att.net> wrote in message
>news:3B2F8EB0...@att.net...
>>
>> Sorry, this seems to have turned into a rant. Does anyone have any ideas
>> as to how I could handle this? Do I write to the ex and ask her if she
>> intends to alter their previous arrangement?
>
>Hi--
>
>You know, for so long BM didn't do *anything* for SO on holidays (even while
>they were married) that I just automatically make sure SS gets a card and a
>gift for him, even if it means duplicating. Because, bottom line, I won't
>allow BM to mar our family holidays together.
>
>Rebecca
>
Since DH & I first started dating I've helped DSD get her dad a gift &
card for Father's Day - same for his birthday & Christmas. So far as
I know BM never did. But for whatever reason this year DSD came back
from her mom's with a card for her dad for Father's Day. (We have
custody but BM has DSD for the first 3 weeks fof summer with reversed
visitation.) I figure I'll just keep doing as I do even if BM keeps
up this new change. DSD will be 10 soon so it won't be much longer
(many more holidays) when I can start dropping hints that she needs to
think of these things herself.
Take care of yourself,
Melody
jane
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 15:39:28 GMT
>
>
>
>
>
>jane wrote:
>
>>
>> Why on earth would anyone even get into this? Don't you have anything
>better
>> to do than argue with someone about whether or not they can give you a
>shirt?
>
>she has been told over and over again that he doesn't want anything from her
>that's why. You let her get by with this and she'll be back hassling him to
>go on
>dates with her (and yes she's done that since she was married) If you let her
>slide with one thing every thing goes to hell. He told her no, she did it
>anyway.
That's the point. You cannot control her. If you stop trying to, then she
won't need to keep proving you can't.
jane
Lauralee Adams
> Lee, what I'd do is talk to the kids. Don't say anything about the BM,
> just suggest that maybe they could ring you in advance and let you know
> if they've dealt with it with their BM and her husband.
Good idea - I can ask the kids on one of DH's regular calls close to his
birthday. I know BM would have a fit if I contacted her in any way, even
though I've never had negative communications with her. And just to
clarify, I didn't say anything about BM to the kids in inquiring about
gifts - just asked them if they had gifts, and matter-of-factly told
them that we'd go shopping for him later in the week.
> I wouldn't get
> into a tit for tat exchange, because it seems to me that the real losers
> in these things are the kids.
<sigh> I _know_ this, but sometimes I need to have it reinforced.
Thanks.
> Wendy
Lee
jane
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: Tue, 19 Jun 2001 17:45:03 GMT
>
>
>
>
>
>rebecca wrote:
>>
> Does anyone have any ideas
>as to how I could handle this? Do I write to the ex and ask her if she
>intends to alter their previous arrangement? Do I just wait and see what
>happens on his birthday, and assume the arrangement is changed if she
>doesn't help them shop for him then?
I know. Just before DH's birthday, ask the kids if they need to buy him
something. Put Mothers' Day and BM's birthday completely out of your mind
(or, if you want to be big about this, ask the kids just before those events if
they need to buy her something). Don't get involved in any other conversations
with anyone.
jane
Purgatory
Last year she had a boyfriend and we figured let him worry about it.
This year shebroke up with her boyfriend and I tod DH I thought we
should get her a gift or have SS make one for her. He refused as she
never ecknowledges father's day, not even so much as to say happy
father's day to him. I tend to disagree with DH. Much as I can't
stand BM I still think she deserves a gift for her kid on fathers day.
I take care of DH's gift and have been doing so since we met and were
just friends, BM had no one to take care of it for her this year.
It's never a matter of spending money-the last gist we arranged for
her was a plaster of paris mold of SS's hand, it's the fact that her
child is giving her something.
gple...@aol.comicrelief (Geri and Brian) wrote in message news:<20010618112749...@ng-cc1.aol.com>...
> >I know some
> >on this group think that once a new partner's involved, the new partner
> >should assume this responsibility.
>
> Do you think it has to do with the relationship between the parents (or even
> who has custody at the time of the holiday)?
>
> I know we didn't get anything for SD to give to BM for Mother's Day - she was
> in her mom's custody at the time anyway, but it is pretty doubtful we would
> have done so in any case. (It sounds like she got nothing from her other adult
> children, too.) For Father's Day, we had custody of SD. I took her out and we
> bought the gifts, cards, etc. BM never would have done such a thing and we
> probably would have considered it intrusive if she had.
>
> But I know there are lots of parents in this group who usually help the
> children by whichever parent's day gift for the other parent. I think in many
> cases they have fairly civil relationships with that parent, however.
Kathy Cole
wrote:
> that shouldn't be too hard. she left the receipt in the bag and we
> photocopied it
Well, hell, if the receipt was in the bag, I'd have taken the shirt back
and had the sum credited to her card. That would have frosted her
without giving her the ammunition of making a scene in front of the kids
when the shirt was found on her porch.
Either that, or returned it for cash and put the money in an account for
the kids.
John Durden
she wood pretty much have to come to our home to do that, and I don't think
she'd have lasted long here with her attitude. she uses phone calls and
emails... or she catches you after you've either gotten or dropped off the
boys (on the rare occasions she actually wants them) or she'll corner you at
school functions. There is always someone to take the boys to where they
can't see or hear their mother being a bitch and making a complete ass out
of herself
Kathleen and Steve
> > just suggest that maybe they could ring you in advance and let you know
> > if they've dealt with it with their BM and her husband.
>
> Good idea - I can ask the kids on one of DH's regular calls close to his
> birthday. I know BM would have a fit if I contacted her in any way, even
> though I've never had negative communications with her. And just to
> clarify, I didn't say anything about BM to the kids in inquiring about
> gifts - just asked them if they had gifts, and matter-of-factly told
> them that we'd go shopping for him later in the week.
If I were you - the SM, I would just go ahead and make sure the kids get
something for their Dad. If they end up having more than 1 gift, the more
the merrier! I don't see why the BM should have any reason to get mad that
you took over this part of their life (at least I wouldn't be upset if
Kayla's SM had helped her shop for her Dad).
To me the bottom line is my values. I value appreciation, and gifts, cards,
attention is all nice - not the same thing as love - but is special to me.
I get a lot of joy out of giving gifts. And I see my husband the way his
daughter was raised to care less about him/their relationship. I don't want
either of my daugters to ever feel that way about their fathers. I want my
girls to treasure their relationships with all their family members, and
gifts are just tokens but it is truely the thought that counts.