The End of Summer Visitation
Wakanyeja Makah
Hello all,
Saturday was the end of my 9 y/o stepson's summer visitation.(6
weeks) It was difficult to put him on the plane knowing that it will be
nearly 5 months before we will see him again. Each year it seems to get
harder and harder.
This summer was especially different as during the first week of
his visitation he started referring to me (in conversation) as "Mom" and
then calling me "Mom" (along with his two brothers) for the entire summer.
The husband-person and I did not discourage (or encourage) it. We just
accepted it. Still, it has left a hole in my heart. For most of his life
I have felt no differently about him than I do my bio-boys (ages 8 and 11)
and although I feel like "Mom" and he has said over and over how he wishes
I were his "real mom"...this is the first summer he has ever done this. If
it can be possible I feel closer to him than I ever have. When he boarded
the plane saying that he didn't want to leave us and crying...well...once
he was out of sight I just lost it....right there in the airport.
We drove home and sat by the phone waiting to see if his plane made
it in safely and the bio-mom didn't even extend the courtesy (which we
ALWAYS do) of phoning to let us know he had arrived safely and she had
picked him up. (..I don't know WHY this surprises me...we have asked her
repeatedly to let us know and she rarely ever does) After waiting for an
hour after the flight was suppose to have arrived we phoned the airport (in
Sarasota) to make sure that it had indeed arrived safely (...it had arrived
on time...) and to make sure she had picked him up (according to their
records- she had). Her excuse later....well, she just didn't have TIME to
call and let us know. (....even though amazingly she did have the TIME to
whisk him off to McDonalds...which is where he said they went directly
after the airport...)
There are pay-phones right in the terminal and it takes 5
minutes!!!! In the future we are going to teach him how to use a pre-paid
phone card and give it to him so he can make the call himself and explain
to him to be INSISTENT if she attempts to refuse to let him. He will be ten
by then and having already raised one ten year old I know exactly how
insistent they can be when they want to. We are also going to bring this
behavior up in our pending Contempt of Court Motion (re: her failure to
keep us advised on medical conditions/school information/ et al...even
though we have a Court Order that states she must do exactly that...and
more recently her lies concerning his lead poisoning which she signed her
name to) Although the Court certainly can't legislate common courtesy...I
am sure that a judge would take a dim view of this thoughtlessness in
context with the rest of the difficulty we are having with her. One can
always hope.
Amazing. You have to have a license to own a dog....but our
judicial system will let a self-centered thoughtless woman like this have
custody of a child!!!!!
W. Makah
(...trying to just shake it off and go on....but sometimes it is *so*
frustrating!!!!)
The summer *was* wonderful and we were able to take a week long family
vacation (out of state) with all the boys. They LOVED that! Must embrace
the positive...and this year we will all be together for Christmas!
Kyle & Kim's Mom
and having been there (just yesterday again as a matter of fact) I thought I
would share my next best thing to getting the phone call solution. It's the
www.thetrip.com web site which has real time tracking of any flight. It
made me feel better to know my children were on the ground at 8:17 even
though I didn't get a call until nearly 11:00 p.m.
--
Pam
Kyle and Kimberlee's Mom
Click p...@vircom.net to reply or
remove nospam from address to reply.
Jeanette Cameron
Wakanyeja Makah wrote:
One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
My husband and I have my SD for 5 or 6 weeks during the summer with the mother
having visitation every other weekend. Out of the 5 yrs my SD spent the summer
with her father, the mother came once or twice for 2 yrs and the other 3 she
hasn't even bothered coming. This summer and last summer have been hard to
see SD go home because she has been telling us that she doesn't want to go
home. We try to encourage her that when she goes home, she will have fun there
and get to play with her neighborhood friends, baby sister, and cousins, but
that doesn't work. We have been noticing for about a yr now when we take her
home at the end of our every other weekend visitation, she gets sad. This past
visitation, she told us and her grandmother that she didn't want to go home.
We tell her that she has to. We are also noticing that the SD doesn't care a
lot for being or going places with her stepfather. Her stepfather has even
admitted this to some of my husband's family members.
The mother and the stepfather told the court and others that my SD is not happy
with us and we don't provide a loving environment for her (like they know what
goes on in our household.) Children Services put that silliness to rest.
During the summers, the stepfather and the mother like to call SD to make
promises (give her party when she comes home, take her to fun places, buy her
surprises, come to get her for their weekend visitation, etc.) which they don't
keep. It seems to me they are tyring to buy this child's affections. The
child should love both her mother and her father equally and not love who can
spend the most money on her (although we are more financially able to do so).
We are hoping that these things will work in our favor as the child gets older.
Don't be surprise if the court doesn't find the mother to be contempt. My SD's
mother has been in contempt for yrs and the court hasn't done anything to her.
She has even admitted to the court not doing the things that are written in the
visitation order. Justice is blind. I pray that God will be with you when you
go to court and everything will work out for you.
Wakanyeja Makah
<nosp...@vircom.net> wrote:
>I, too, have been in the situation of wait and wonder where my children are
>and having been there (just yesterday again as a matter of fact) I thought I
>would share my next best thing to getting the phone call solution. It's the
>www.thetrip.com web site which has real time tracking of any flight. It
>made me feel better to know my children were on the ground at 8:17 even
>though I didn't get a call until nearly 11:00 p.m.
Pam,
Thanks for the URL.
I suppose it is unrealistic to think that the situation will
change and we will receive a call when he gets off the plane (from her) and
yes, we will continue to make the call (to her) when he lands here- because
it is the right thing to do...and maybe by example he will learn (for later
in his life) that it IS the right thing to do (...being considerate to
other people..) regardless of what he learns there. Until that time this
will help ease our minds anyway.
Thanks,
W. Makah
carol koponen
something you may not like. I too am a step and it took a long time to
learn this.
The SS cried when he left bio-Mom and said he didn't want to go. This
is typical.
Tho' he called you Mom, you are not. For your own sanity, I suggest you
encourage him to call you by name or some other nick name.
Bio-Mom is under no obligation to call you when he arrives. You should
call him that evening. Her rudeness is nothing to the courts. You are
entering the world of hopelessness. Instead of complaining about her
incredible behavior, overcompens with calls, letters, email, faxes and
packages. Ignore her behaivor and focus on the boy. You will be happier
that way.
Good luck to you. I truly do understand how hard it is. I hope the
courts help you, they never helped us---and for a long time we had
custody!!!
Carol
Wakanyeja Makah
koponen) wrote:
>You need to step back, honey and take a deep breath. I'm about to say
>something you may not like. I too am a step and it took a long time to
>learn this.
Carol, I am taking that step back and the deep breath. I have been this
child's stepmother for the past 6 years. I am not exactly new to this
arena.
>The SS cried when he left bio-Mom and said he didn't want to go. This
>is typical.
No, actually I have picked him up many times (from train stations,
airports, and even her (former) home when she lived in Boston and amazingly
enough he says "Bye" and takes my hand and leaves. No tears. No falling
apart. None of that. Just "Bye". Additionally he NEVER asks to even call
her when he is with us. Something I find VERY strange. I have to
encourage him to call her, write her, get her a Birthday present, et al.
and all the while she croons to him as though he were a 2 year old child or
says "Good boy" as if he were a damn dog! He even complains about it. She
insists on calling him *Bootsie* (which even he has asked her to stop
doing) and he is nearly 10 years old. Go figure.
>Tho' he called you Mom, you are not. For your own sanity, I suggest you
>encourage him to call you by name or some other nick name.
Hmmmm.....I believe my sanity is quite fine (thank you very much) and I am
most aware that I am not his bio-mom. His decision to call me *Mom* I take
great pride in. For several years he has confided about how he wishes I
were his *real mom* and this year he decided to do this on his own and I am
certainly NOT going to discourage it or really make mention of it (to him)
in any way. Obviously he felt very comfortable doing so or he wouldn't
have done it.
>Bio-Mom is under no obligation to call you when he arrives. You should
>call him that evening. Her rudeness is nothing to the courts.
About this you are probably right. It is just a shame that this
inconsideration is what he is being raised with. As I said before we will
continue to do what I consider *the right thing* by always phoning to let
her know when his plane is in....encouraging him to call her and
write....encouraging him to remember and send a birthday gift or Christmas
or whatever. In short we are trying to set a good example.
Insofar as the lies about his medical information, the refusal to send
school information, and refusing to notify my husband in an emergency
situation....well....I am sure that the courts may see differently on these
issues.
> You are
>entering the world of hopelessness.
I am sorry that you view step-parenting this way. Although it is at times
quite challenging and sometimes heart-rending and
depressing...well....those times are such a tiny fraction of the big
picture...
My vent is because this is after all- alt.support.step-parents and many of
the people here I have known for some time and we have shared our ups and
downs.
> Instead of complaining about her
>incredible behavior, overcompens with calls, letters, email, faxes and
>packages.
Well, we stay very directly involved in his life..school...medical..et al.
We write weekly and occasionally send packages and call nearly every other
day. We don't buy into the "...buy love.." school of child-rearing and our
involvement is much more than the superficial send gifts and Disneyland Dad
approach. Sorry to disappoint you. Even over 1000 miles away we are going
to continue to be PARENTS.
> Ignore her behaivor and focus on the boy. You will be happier
>that way.
It is difficult to ignore her behavior when she is the person raising our
son...in fact it is impossible. We are not asking for anything that ANY
parent wouldn't expect.
>Good luck to you. I truly do understand how hard it is. I hope the
>courts help you, they never helped us---and for a long time we had
>custody!!!
>Carol
Carol...
I have read your episode and while your situation is in fact quite
sad...I have only the brightest of hopes that when my stepson is 14 he will
be sick of putting up with the endless stream of bullshit that she spews
and will ask the courts to live with us. He is an extremely intelligent
boy who loves his father, brothers, and me very much and has often said how
he wants to live with us. I believe him. We can offer him stability and
it has been my experience that a child (any child) does much better with
consistency in his/her life.
W. Makah
lilbl...@my-dejanews.com
wma...@hotmail.com wrote:
> It is difficult to ignore her behavior when she is the person raising our
> son...
"OUR"??? I caught that!
It is *soooo* nice, in this newsgroup full of upsets and small triumphs, to
hear someone refer to her stepson as "our son". I do it too...I stopped
thinking of my stepson as my husband's son years ago!
lil
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading
Wakanyeja Makah
>In article <35be33eb...@news.tds.net>,
> wma...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>> It is difficult to ignore her behavior when she is the person raising our
>> son...
>
>"OUR"??? I caught that!
>
>It is *soooo* nice, in this newsgroup full of upsets and small triumphs, to
>hear someone refer to her stepson as "our son". I do it too...I stopped
>thinking of my stepson as my husband's son years ago!
>
>lil
Hi lil,
Yes. The boys were all so young when our family blended that I
suppose I never thought of him any other way. I have always referred to him
as *my* son and the three of them as *our* boys-although biologically the
husband-person and I do not have any children of *our own*. (...quietly
pondering the fact that these non-existant children of our's can get pretty
noisy...)
It gets quite tiresome to hear how that as step-parents we are
just suppose to supervise them, teach them, feed them, get them to a
doctor, comfort them, watch them grow up, shelter them from harm as much as
possible, share life with them, wash their laundry, listen to their hopes,
dreams and heartaches, snuggle them, as needed discipline them...and about
a million other things..yet we aren't suppose to love them or have input in
their lives, or feel that they are *our child* too.
As I watch my stepson grow and see him embrace so many of my own
interests (some of which are not common to either his bio-mom or father) I
know that my contribution to his life is real. That he is as much *my* son
as he is *theirs* and we will always be a part of each other's lives. Long
after the bio-mom has lost that court-ordered piece of paper which has
somehow given her the right to treat him like a piece of property and a
commodity instead of a human being...he will be making a campfire somewhere
and sleeping outside under the stars and remember who taught him how
wonderful all of that can be.
W. Makah
(...forever the woods-woman...)
lilblakdog
Wakanyeja Makah <wma...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<35bf6b83...@news.tds.net>...
> Long
> after the bio-mom has lost that court-ordered piece of paper which has
> somehow given her the right to treat him like a piece of property and a
> commodity instead of a human being...he will be making a campfire
somewhere
> and sleeping outside under the stars and remember who taught him how
> wonderful all of that can be.
LOL! This reminds me of something that happened during our visit this
summer. For five years now I've been hearing about "My momma makes the
best soup" and "My momma knows how to do that too" (which is understandable
and certainly fine by me), but this year it was a little different.
For the past two summers, my stepson has been invited on our two-week long
camping trips. We stuff as much educational sightseeing into those two
weeks as possible, and still manage to stick in all the fun stuff as well.
I knew he enjoyed himself, but one day after we returned home he started
saying things like "My momma *never* takes me camping" and "I *never* get
to go to the waterslides at home".
So I guess we're slowly pulling ahead...we may win yet! :-)
lil
Jeanette Cameron
Wakanyeja Makah wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 14:35:26 -0400 (EDT), miscr...@webtv.net (carol
> koponen) wrote:
>
> >Bio-Mom is under no obligation to call you when he arrives. You should
> >call him that evening. Her rudeness is nothing to the courts.
>
> About this you are probably right. It is just a shame that this
> inconsideration is what he is being raised with. As I said before we will
> continue to do what I consider *the right thing* by always phoning to let
> her know when his plane is in....encouraging him to call her and
> write....encouraging him to remember and send a birthday gift or Christmas
> or whatever. In short we are trying to set a good example.
>
> Insofar as the lies about his medical information, the refusal to send
> school information, and refusing to notify my husband in an emergency
> situation....well....I am sure that the courts may see differently on these
> issues.
In my husband's visitation order, it states the mother is to notify him of such
things as school info, medical info, emergencies, activities, etc. but she
doesn't. The mother has even gone so far as to give us unlabeled medication
for my SD. We didn't know what it was, how much to give to her, or when to
give it to her. My husband tried calling my SD's mother and left messages with
the mother's mother about this situation. Of course we would never hear from
my SD's mother.
We went to court in 1996-1997 for change of custody. The mother and her
husband admitted to the court they don't notify my husband about these things,
they want his visitation rights taken away, and they don't want him around his
child. They even admitted to the court that they decided not to notify my
husband about the time my SD had surgery. They felt it wasn't in their or the
child's best interest. We on the other hand told the court we would include
the mother in the child's life and encourage the child's relationship with
her. The court decided the mother had the best interest of the child.
????????????
It's 1998 and they still don't notify my husband about anything.
Jeanette Cameron
Wakanyeja Makah wrote:
> On Tue, 28 Jul 1998 10:22:17 -0500, Jeanette Cameron <camer...@osu.edu>
> wrote:
>
> >One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
> >is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
> >5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
> >so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
>
> Actually the lawyer, husband-person and I discussed this issue.
> The lawyer seems to think that we should try to get a modification for the
> entire summer. I tend to disagree because he does have a life and
> schoolmates there (in Florida) as well as a Mom and an Aunt and a set of
> grandparents. At present they have a month together (while he is out of
> school) and I think this time is important to him as well (in the summer-
> out of school time) I just can't see it being very fair to him not to be
> able to spend part of the summer break with them. I try to think about
> what is in his best interest. Even when selfishly, I would love to have him
> for the entire summer. Sometimes it is hard, but I know it is the right
> thing to do.
Where my SD lives, she has her mother's family and my husband's family there
also. My husband is thinking about modifying the visitation order to get his
daughter for the whole summer. I have
mixed feelings bout this. My husband is constantly and purposely shut out of his
child's life. With
3 months, he can somewhat "make up" for the lost time (realistically those times
are gone and can
never be brought back). On the other hand, we would have to deal with more of
the mother's
crap while my SD is with us. Honestly, I don't look forward to my SD coming to
live with us
for 5 or 6 weeks during the summer.
>Don't be surprise if the court doesn't find the mother to be contempt. My SD's
> >mother has been in contempt for yrs and the court hasn't done anything to her.
> >She has even admitted to the court not doing the things that are written in the
> >visitation order. Justice is blind. I pray that God will be with you when you
> >go to court and everything will work out for you.
>
> Thanks. I don't hold a lot of faith in the legal system either. We
> recently asked for a change of venue (since she doesn't even live in the
> state and hasn't for years and we have a permanent residence outside of the
> county which has venue) We attempted to move it to our county. She filed
> an objection (for GOD knows what reason...more conflict I suppose) and not
> only did the transfer get denied..but we ended up paying $200. of HER legal
> fees. Because my husband had the audacity to ask for a venue change. Go
> figure!
> She has most recently been blatantly in contempt and a great deal
> of the lies and such bear her signature. We are hoping that the judge sees
> through all the bullshit...but as you know...it is a coin toss.
>
> Actually we just returned from our lawyer's office today (so please excuse
> my vent) but it all seems like some huge horrible game with my stepson used
> as stakes. My husband and I ask for a list of items (given to our lawyer)
> which we were willing (without pursuing the contempt of court motion) to
> ask her lawyer for. These were not unreasonable items. They were:
>
> Emergency information within 24 hours of an emergency.
>
> Actual documentation from the MD after visits to be send within a week
> (only asked for because she had been lying to us concerning medical
> information).
>
> All school schedules, sports schedules, and information pertaining to
> school to be sent within the month that she receives them (..for although
> we ask for these things we do not receive them and although we are rarely
> able to actually attend the sports functions we enjoy calling him and
> wishing him luck before the game or calling him on the first day of
> school...or possibly just knowing what is happening in his life!)
>
> Additional visitation of 1 week at Thanksgiving every other year (so that
> we can celebrate with him and he can participate in our family
> traditions...so that we can celebrate his birthday with him every other
> year, which otherwise we never get to do...so that in the years that we do
> not have Christmas visitation there will not be a period of time from July
> to April (9 months) that we are unable to see him. We feel this separation
> a bit excessive.)
>
> Sounds reasonable doesn't it?
>
> No....our lawyer (who I must admit I really was beginning to respect up to
> this point) says we are being unrealistic. Says that we should ask for a
> bunch of crap that we do not want...have no intention of getting...just so
> he can use it as *negotiating* power. WHAT THE HELL!
> Why should WE play games. That is what we are so angry at HER for
> doing! Everything (with the exception of the Thanksgiving visitation) are
> items that are clearly stated in the guidelines...things that have already
> been court ordered.......we aren't being unrealistic...we simply want her
> to do what ANY parent would want under the circumstances. (..and of course
> follow the court orders...what a concept...) We certainly AREN'T going to
> ask for a bunch of crap that we have no intention of getting (or want for
> that matter). Suggested (by the attorney) included: no support during the
> summer, a change in the split of travel expenses, taking the entire summer
> (even after we told him our firm position on this), and changing the tax
> deduction. Just more GAMES!!!! Of course we aren't going to do any of
> this. I think he is disappointed. Says that isn't "how it is done". When
> did honesty and morality go out of vogue?
Your lawyer seems to have a problem. I would suggest you find another lawyer.
Maybe you
can use Legal Aid to keep expenses down. It's bad enough the mother is using
your SS. Why
should you? Because you live so far away, the court may be willing to give your
husband more
time with his son. Dont't ask for anything you don't want. In my opinion, if
you ask for the
things the lawyer suggested, the court will automatically say no.
You and a lot of other people that have posted to this newsgroup are mature
people. In spite
of all the negative things the mother does to us and say to or about us, we
refuse to lower
ourselves to her level. We try to always do the right thing but that is
frustrating sometimes. We
treat the mother the way we would like to be treated. Maybe she will growup some
day.
A lot of stepparents encourage the child to be considerate (write, call, buy Xmas
gifts, buy
birthday presents, etc.) of the other biological parent. How many biological
parents would
allow the child to do these things for the stepparent? My observation is that
some biological
parents barely see us as human beings (we do have feelings) let alone as a
parent.
Vicki Robinson
>
> A lot of stepparents encourage the child to be considerate (write,
> call, buy Xmas gifts, buy birthday presents, etc.) of the other
> biological parent. How many biological parents would allow the child
> to do these things for the stepparent? My observation is that some
> biological parents barely see us as human beings (we do have feelings)
> let alone as a parent.
I am both stepmom and a biomom. My ex has a long-term SO, though he
swears that he'll never marry again. His SO, however, is very close
to my kids, and they think the world of her. I encourage this, and I
take them to the mall to get her birthday and Christmas presents. I
like her myself, and I think that she's good for my kids. She's smart
and educated and pleasant, and I think that kids can't have too many
caring adults in their lives. I get no acknowledgement from my
stepkids on birthdays or Christmas, although they are always glad to
see me and do draw me pictures and write me notes when we're together.
This is all background to what I want to say, so everyone knows where
I am coming from.
I believe in honoring my ex's SO's place in my children's lives, and
I consider her a kind of stepmom to them, as much of a stepmom as
they'll ever have. But she isn't their mom, she's something
different. I am not my stepkids' mom, either, I'm something else.
Being a stepparent is not inherently inferior to being a parent. It
doesn't diminish a stepparent's role to acknowledge that s/he is not
the child's _parent_, but is a _stepparent_.
I don't really blame bioparents for not honoring their
step-counterpart's role as "parent". I do blame them for not
recognizing and appreciating the very real richness that _step_parents
can bring to a child's life. But to recognize them as _parents_? I
don't think so.
My ex and I are the parents of our children. They have a "stepmom"
who brings more love, experience and caring into their lives and she
is very important to them; but she's not their mom. I am. My husband
and his ex are the parents of their children. I bring my own gifts to
their lives and I think I do a good job of it and I know they like me.
But I'm not their mom, and I won't be. What I am, and what my kids'
"stepmom" is, is different; not inferior, certainly not negligible,
worthy of respect and acknowledgement and appreciation, certainly.
But different.
Vicki
--
Visit our wedding at http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/wedding.html and
sign our guest book! The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can
be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com. Take a look, if you
have a week to spare.
Jeanette Cameron
Vicki Robinson wrote:
> In a previous article, camer...@osu.edu said:
>
> >
> > A lot of stepparents encourage the child to be considerate (write,
> > call, buy Xmas gifts, buy birthday presents, etc.) of the other
> > biological parent. How many biological parents would allow the child
> > to do these things for the stepparent? My observation is that some
> > biological parents barely see us as human beings (we do have feelings)
> > let alone as a parent.
>
I acknowledge the fact that my SD's mother is indeed her mother regardless
of what the mother does and I am not. In my situation, I think the mother
and sometimes my husband need to acknowledge this as well. The mother needs
to understand that the love SD has for her is different than the love she
has for me. I don't have a problem with this. I really would like to get
along with my SD's mother bus she doesn't want to get along with us.
Just because I am a stepparent doesn't mean that the mother can disrepect
me, try to cause problems in marriage, lie on me, try to turn my SD against
me, etc. and I am suppose to be ok with that. If my SD's mother had to deal
with the things she does to us (she was treated the same way she treats us)
she probably wouldn't like it. I haven't done anything to her. I am a
human being just like she is.
I am starting to believe that when people enter into a relationship where
the other person has kids especially if marriage is being considered, there
needs to be some kind of counseling addressing issues such as the role the
stepparent is to play in the child's life, the role the child is to play in
the stepparents life, pros and cons of stepparent/child relationship, or
whatever.
According to several posts, it seems like a lot of biological parents
wouldn't or don't encourage the child to be considerate to the stepparent.
There are a few people that have posted where they are also biological
parents and encourage their kid(s) to love, care for, be considerate, have a
relationship with the other biological parents spouse or SO such as your
post. You are trully in the minority. Unfortunately, if you are
considerate or kind to someone else doesn't mean that person will be that
way towards you. Your ex's SO should be counting her blessings.
Vicki Robinson
Thanks for really reading my post; I thought for a while before posting it,
because I was afraid that it would be misunderstood. You didn't
misunderstand, and I appreciate that you took the time to understand what I
was saying! Rare on Usenet. :-)
I don't know if my wife-in-law is counting her blessings (although her
friends and grown children have been amazed that we greet each other with
social hugs), but I count mine. I don't know what my post would have looked
like if my ex had hooked up with someone who was hostile or whom I considered
a bad influence on my kids. But he always did have good taste in women.
Vicki
--
Vicki Robinson
<blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
</a> and sign my guest book. Millions have!
Dean Barker
>
> One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
> is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
> 5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
> so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
We would fight to the bitter end if my SK's dad tried to take
them for the whole summer. We have to live through the day-to-day
battles of school-aged children. We have to put them to bed at
bedtime, make sure they are up in the morning, make sure they do
homework, handle discipline, daily chores, teach them manners and
politeness. When the school year is over and they can finally relax
a little and enjoy themselves, I'll be damned if they will spend
their whole vacation at dad's house, where there are no life pressures,
and where dad can take them on vacation and to fairs and parades
and fireworks. What good is it to be the parent that makes all the
demands on them and then let them go to their "other" parent for
all the good times?
-Dean
Jeanette Cameron
Dean Barker wrote:
Jeanette Cameron wrote:
>
> One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
> is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
> 5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
> so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
We would fight to the bitter end if my SK's dad tried to take
them for the whole summer. We have to live through the day-to-day
battles of school-aged children. We have to put them to bed at
bedtime, make sure they are up in the morning, make sure they do
homework, handle discipline, daily chores, teach them manners and
politeness. When the school year is over and they can finally relax
a little and enjoy themselves, I'll be damned if they will spend
their whole vacation at dad's house, where there are no life pressures,
and where dad can take them on vacation and to fairs and parades
and fireworks. What good is it to be the parent that makes all the
demands on them and then let them go to their "other" parent for
all the good times?-Dean
We have SD for 5 or 6 weeks in the summer. Just because she is on vacation doesn't mean we are.Since my husband and I still have to work fulltime during the summer and really can't take time off for vacations, her summers with us are more educational than fun. We put her in school, we take her to educational places, buy her educational CD's, and play educational games with her. My SD's mother does have visitation every other weekend while SD is with us for the summer, but chooses not to use it. This time could be used for the mother to do something fun with my SD.
Last summer, my SD's mother and stepfather wanted to take SD to his family reunion. Even though this was during our summer visitation and it was not their weekend visitation, we had no problem with letting her go. We traded weekends with them and even gave them 2 more days to be with her. Everytime we ask them if we can take her someplace and it's not our weekend visitation, they say no.
Regardless if we had my SD for 6 weeks, 8 weeks, or the whole summer, if the mother wants to take my SD somewhere or do something with her even though it's not her visitation time, we won't have a problem with it. We are not going to be selfish or inconsiderate to the mother even though she is to us.
P.S. My husband's visitation oder gives him the option of either
1) having the child for the whole summer with no weekend visitation for
the rest of the year or 2) having the child for part of the summer with
every other weekend visitation for the rest of the year. He currently
is doing option 2. Because the mother is willfully violating the
visitation order thus not allowing him to be actively involve in his child's
life, he is thinking about modifying option 1 to have every other weekend
visitation also.
carol koponen
carol koponen
janelaw
>
>
> A lot of stepparents encourage the child to be considerate (write, call, buy Xmas
> gifts, buy
> birthday presents, etc.) of the other biological parent. How many biological
> parents would
> allow the child to do these things for the stepparent?
Surely this isn't uncommon. I would never dream of sending my
daughter back for xmas without a gift for ex's SO. OTOH, I have
no idea what her birthday is. I guess I assume it is ex's job
to remind our child of the date. I'll get the date and write
it on our calendar here. Thanks for mentioning it.
janelaw
>
>
> One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
> is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
> 5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
> so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
>
I really think that this decision should include the child.
They have a whole life with the primary custodial parent. Some
of them just want every second they can get with the secondary,
but others want to spend their vacation playing ball and going
to disneyland with their friends. As they get older, they want
jobs, etc.
Mine just turned 11. Before this, she was just too young to
spend more than a few weeks away from "home." We live too far
apart to allow for weekend visitation. Last summer, she went
for two 3 week stints. It gets expensive. Even if I would
consider letting her go for the entire summer, she does not want
to. She fiercely needs to see her dad, but she wants to spend
part of her vacation hanging around the pool with her girls,
too.
Personally, I don't care. I miss her terribly while she is
gone, of course. But her dad is her dad, and she adores him.
As far as I am concerned, she can spend whatever time she wants
with him. I won't force her to go for longer than she wants,
though. I don't care at all what my ex wants or needs. As far
as I am concerned, visitation is for the benefit of the child.
So I go with what she tells me works for her. I am mainly
concerned with enabling her to express her wishes clearly and
without fear of recrimination. I don't know what I would do if
she ever told me that she didn't want to go at all. I can't
imagine it.
>
> snip..... This summer and last summer have been hard to
> see SD go home because she has been telling us that she doesn't want to go
> home....... <long snip>..........
> The mother and the stepfather told the court and others that my SD is not happy
> with us and we don't provide a loving environment for her (like they know what
> goes on in our household.) Children Services put that silliness to rest.
There are two things you should consider. First, it is
perfectly normal for SD not to want to leave you. Sometimes,
the pain of being torn from people they love makes children
sad. This doesn't mean she is unhappy at home. She probably
tells BM et. al. the same thing when she leaves them. Second,
sometimes children try to please both sides when there is
tension between the bios. It sounds to me like both sets of
parents here think that the child is unhappy with the other.
You know she is happy with you, but they are getting the idea
that she is unhappy SOMEWHERE. I don't think SD is necessarily
being dishonest, just that reality looks different to her
depending on which house she is in.
Jeanette Cameron
janelaw wrote:
> Jeanette Cameron wrote:
> >
> >
> > One of the many things I don't understand about the court regarding visitation
> > is why not give the other parent who lives far away the whole summer instead of
> > 5 or 6 weeks for the summer visitation? It seems in your situation, you live
> > so far away that every other weekend or every weekend visitation wouldn't work.
> >
>
My SD is 6 yrs old. She is still too young to make decisions about what visitation
schedule works for her or about anything else concerning her life, so the court
does. It would be nice if the mother and the father could agree to a visitation
schedule, but the mother doesn't even what him to have visitation (told court in
1997).
> > snip..... This summer and last summer have been hard to
> > see SD go home because she has been telling us that she doesn't want to go
> > home....... <long snip>..........
> > The mother and the stepfather told the court and others that my SD is not happy
> > with us and we don't provide a loving environment for her (like they know what
> > goes on in our household.) Children Services put that silliness to rest.
>
> There are two things you should consider. First, it is
> perfectly normal for SD not to want to leave you. Sometimes,
> the pain of being torn from people they love makes children
> sad. This doesn't mean she is unhappy at home. She probably
> tells BM et. al. the same thing when she leaves them. Second,
> sometimes children try to please both sides when there is
> tension between the bios. It sounds to me like both sets of
> parents here think that the child is unhappy with the other.
> You know she is happy with you, but they are getting the idea
> that she is unhappy SOMEWHERE. I don't think SD is necessarily
> being dishonest, just that reality looks different to her
> depending on which house she is in.
I never said SD was unhappy at the other home and I really don't believe SD is
unhappy with the other parent. I do believe she loves both her parents and want both
of them in her life, but she feels that she is in the middle of or the center of a
conflict between the two.
When SD tells us that she doesn't want to go home(during summer and on every other
weekend visitations), even though it's hard to see her go home we tell her she can
have a good time at the other home as well by playing with her friends, cousins, and
her baby sister. Her reply is it's boring at her house and they (mother and
stepfather) really don't do anything with her. She has also told my husband's
co-workers that she doesn't want to go home because she doesn't get enought time with
her dad (my husband takes her to work with him for 1 day each summer). They brought
this to our attention.
When SD is with us for the summer, we expect her to miss her mother. We even let her
write a letter to her mother this summer. She says she misses her dad when she is
with her mother, but her mother won't let her write him or call him.
Surprisingly, the stepfather has been telling us that all SD talks about is coming to
our home. She wants to come to our home not only for summer visitation, but
throughout the year. It would be nice if we didn't live so far away and the mother
and father could equally divide the time up with SD living in both households.
When SD is with us for the summer, the mother tries to cause conflict and wants SD to
be unhappy while she is with us. We have witnesses (including a caseworker from
Children Services in the county where we live) that have witnessed the emotional
abuse, behavior problems and the distress the mother inflicted upon the child when
with us for the summers. This same caseworker also witnessed the police coming to
our home on allegations the mother made that we were not feeding SD (she was eating
when they arrived) and that she was my husband's wife. The caseworker wrote a letter
to the judge detailing these events, my SD's behavior when mother called (crying
hysterically, dropping phone, not wanting to get back on the phone, going into
shock), SD's behavior with us, care of child, etc.) The judge of course didn't care,
however after we and our witnesses testified to these things, the emotional abuse and
rest of behavior problems stopped.
Dean Barker
>
> We have SD for 5 or 6 weeks in the summer. Just because she is on
> vacation doesn't mean we are.Since my husband and I still have to work
> fulltime during the summer and really can't take time off for
> vacations, her summers with us are more educational than fun. We put
> her in school, we take her to educational places, buy her educational
> CD's, and play educational games with her. My SD's mother does have
> visitation every other weekend while SD is with us for the summer, but
> chooses not to use it. This time could be used for the mother to do
> something fun with my SD.
Hi Jeanette, you can see why I get so bitter though, when my steps
go to their dad's, he has no job, his wife works and they bring
their daughter to daycare (don't ask me why, I don't get it). He
gets 100% time with them and he is as childish as a 10 year old so
they all get along. He has refused to pay child support and then
lately when forced to pay $200/month he has complained to us about
how we are destroying his life. I do not understand what his wife
sees in him.
>
> Last summer, my SD's mother and stepfather wanted to take SD to his
> family reunion. Even though this was during our summer visitation and
> it was not their weekend visitation, we had no problem with letting
> her go. We traded weekends with them and even gave them 2 more days
> to be with her. Everytime we ask them if we can take her someplace
> and it's not our weekend visitation, they say no.
We used to be able to work out changes with each other, but we've
had to stop. My SK's dad would ask for a weekend that was scheduled
to be ours, we'd say sure we'll swap that weekend for the next one.
After the two weekends would go by he'd think that the next one was
his, we would say no its ours, he'd have a fit and tell us we
are preventing him from seeing his kids. He does not understand
logic.
weekend 1 2 3 4 5 6
original sched M D M D M D
agreed change M D D M M D (he asked to switch weekend 3 for 4)
his logic M D D M D M
No matter how many times my wife would explain it to him he would
not understand why weekend 5 is ours after we switched 3 & 4. We
eventually had to say no more switching weekends, its the kids who
lose.
>
> Regardless if we had my SD for 6 weeks, 8 weeks, or the whole summer,
> if the mother wants to take my SD somewhere or do something with her
> even though it's not her visitation time, we won't have a problem with
> it. We are not going to be selfish or inconsiderate to the mother
> even though she is to us.
When my SK's are at their dads, they are rarely at the house, they
go to grandparents, aunts, and friends of their dad's. If we call
there normally we can leave a message, if we call there while the kids
are there the answering machine is turned off. My wife has to call
to all the relatives just to try to talk to the kids. I'm sure that
has caused them all to call her names. Arranging to see the kids
is out of the question.
>
> P.S. My husband's visitation oder gives him the option of either 1)
> having the child for the whole summer with no weekend visitation for
> the rest of the year or 2) having the child for part of the summer
> with every other weekend visitation for the rest of the year. He
> currently is doing option 2. Because the mother is willfully
> violating the visitation order thus not allowing him to be actively
> involve in his child's life, he is thinking about modifying option 1
> to have every other weekend visitation also.
My wife's and her ex's agreement is whatever they can work out. I'm
pushing to get it changed, but I have no power.
-Dean
>
Wakanyeja Makah
>We would fight to the bitter end if my SK's dad tried to take
>them for the whole summer.
<large amount of snippage>
> What good is it to be the parent that makes all the
>demands on them and then let them go to their "other" parent for
>all the good times?
>
>-Dean
Dean,
I will NEVER understand this attitude. My husband and I would
GLADLY give our ex the entire summer if we could have the day to day life
with my stepson. It isn't about parading them around or fireworks or
vacations. All of those things are nice...but the day to day sharing of
his life (which now we attempt to do from over 1000 miles away on the phone
and by photos and weekly letters) is so much more real.
W. Makah
Wakanyeja Makah
wrote:
>
>It's 1998 and they still don't notify my husband about anything.
>
Then I would continue to file Contempt Motions and I would call your local
media and turn it all into a Father's Rights circus if necessary...but the
tide is turning and if enough of us make waves...well, they can't ignore us
all and MAYBE (even if we can't make a difference in this one small
skirmish) we can win the war eventually.
W. Makah
(looking at the big picture)
Kriggs125
girl 6. He does get them occasionally, for the holidays, spring break ect.
This summer has been diffrent, He did have them for the month of july (they
come home this sunday)
But there was a price...I let him have the child support and the kids
disability money(ex is disabled) I still think that is the reason he agreed
to the month long visitation.
We have an open visitation policy, in fact i call him every few weeks to see
when he would be able to get the kids (ex lives 200 miles away) and he has
excellant family support.
I just want him to have more of a relationship with his kids.
kathy
Jeanette Cameron
> > snip..... This summer and last summer have been hard to
> > see SD go home because she has been telling us that she doesn't want
to go
> > home....... <long snip>..........
> > The mother and the stepfather told the court and others that my SD
is not happy
> > with us and we don't provide a loving environment for her (like they
know what
> > goes on in our household.) Children Services put that silliness to
rest.
>
> There are two things you should consider. First, it is
> perfectly normal for SD not to want to leave you. Sometimes,
> the pain of being torn from people they love makes children
> sad. This doesn't mean she is unhappy at home. She probably
> tells BM et. al. the same thing when she leaves them. Second,
> sometimes children try to please both sides when there is
> tension between the bios. It sounds to me like both sets of
> parents here think that the child is unhappy with the other.
> You know she is happy with you, but they are getting the idea
> that she is unhappy SOMEWHERE. I don't think SD is necessarily
> being dishonest, just that reality looks different to her
> depending on which house she is in.
By the way, the mother did admit to the court that she had been filing
false
allegations and that she didn't want the father to have visitation. Her
reasoning
was that the false allegations were to keep my husband from kidnapping
the child.
Merrie
with this option stuff? Who's creating the options?
Merrie
Merrie
Before I say anything else I want you to know that I have followed your
posts and think that you are basically a level headed fair person.
Don't read any further if you don't want to read anything that disagrees
with you...
When I look at this schedule:
> weekend 1 2 3 4 5 6
> original sched M D M D M D
> agreed change M D D M M D (he asked to switch weekend 3 for 4)
> his logic M D D M D M
>
and I'm under the impression that you have custody during the week... I
would have to say that his logic is the better one because if Mom takes
two weekends in a row it means that Dad doesn't see his child for about
20 days whereas, regardless of how many weekends Dad has, Mom never goes
more than two days without seeing the child.
Personally I think there should be some flexability in the schedule so
that the child doesn't miss important events and I think you should just
"give" the weekend. I really, really think it's the most fair thing to
do for the child. Do you realize that a weekend for you is just over
half of one percent of your time with him?
Of course I wouldn't expect to be thanked for the time that you would
give up, but the bad feelings that you could prevent might be worth it.
Especially if the bad feelings are your son's concerning something that
he misses out on. It sounds like he has friends and relatives on his
"other" family side so these things must come up.
I know it hurts to give Dad more time because he doesn't deserve it,
but don't even think about him just think about your son.
best wishes. Merrie
Jeanette Cameron
Merrie wrote:
> Just wondering; How far away from the kids do you live? and what's
> with this option stuff? Who's creating the options?
>
> Merrie
>
> Jeanette Cameron wrote:
> >
> >
> >
We live about 200 miles (2.5 hrs 1 way) from my SD. We live in central OH
and she lives in NE OH. My husband has the Standard Order of Visitation
which was given to him by the judge. The options are specified within this
visitation order.
Dean Barker
>
> Dear Dean,
>
> Before I say anything else I want you to know that I have followed your
> posts and think that you are basically a level headed fair person.
> Don't read any further if you don't want to read anything that disagrees
> with you...
>
> When I look at this schedule:
>
> > weekend 1 2 3 4 5 6
> > original sched M D M D M D
> > agreed change M D D M M D (he asked to switch weekend 3 for 4)
> > his logic M D D M D M
> >
>
> and I'm under the impression that you have custody during the week... I
> would have to say that his logic is the better one because if Mom takes
> two weekends in a row it means that Dad doesn't see his child for about
> 20 days whereas, regardless of how many weekends Dad has, Mom never goes
> more than two days without seeing the child.
Problem #1) How can we ever plan anything for any weekend when the whole
rotation
can be changed whenever he wants it changed.
Problem #2) Money. It is a 340 mile round trip to dad's house of which
we drive
half of it. We can not afford to do this 3 out of 4 weekends.
Problem #3) Where does it end? How many times does this happen and when
should
we put our foot down and stop it?
Mom may never go more than two days without seeing the kids, but in her
mind it
is 2 too many. At some point you have to look at who was so eager to
break up
the family and then later on make demands to take the kids away from
their mom.
Mom doesn't have to stand for it.
>
> Personally I think there should be some flexability in the schedule so
> that the child doesn't miss important events and I think you should just
> "give" the weekend. I really, really think it's the most fair thing to
> do for the child. Do you realize that a weekend for you is just over
> half of one percent of your time with him?
Half of one percent? You think just like the kids dad. Do you have kids
of your
own? School aged kids? M-F the actual quality time available to spend
with
the kids is 5:30 pm to 8 pm. That is 12-13 hours/week. The weekend is a
good
12 hours/day. You do the math, its not half of one percent. Again, the
custodial
parent does all the work and then the non-custodial parent gets to reap
the
benefits. I don't agree with your logic.
>
> Of course I wouldn't expect to be thanked for the time that you would
> give up, but the bad feelings that you could prevent might be worth it.
> Especially if the bad feelings are your son's concerning something that
> he misses out on. It sounds like he has friends and relatives on his
> "other" family side so these things must come up.
We have put the concerns of the kids first for every situation for 4
years
and we do not plan to change that. However the concerns of school aged
children,
as they get older, are with their friends and events at school. The kids
are
getting more and more upset at going to dads all the time. Now, the kids
do not
tell their dad how they feel, they say they don't want to make him mad
(I think
what they mean is that they don't want to hurt his feelings, which I
understand).
So therefore dad thinks they kids want to be with him more often. We,
the
custodial parents, are stuck in the middle balancing the needs of the
kids with
containing an irate dad when he doesn't get his way.
>
> I know it hurts to give Dad more time because he doesn't deserve it,
> but don't even think about him just think about your son.
>
> best wishes. Merrie
-Dean
Dean Barker
> >them for the whole summer.
> > What good is it to be the parent that makes all the
> >demands on them and then let them go to their "other" parent for
> >all the good times?
> >
> >-Dean
>
>
> I will NEVER understand this attitude. My husband and I would
> GLADLY give our ex the entire summer if we could have the day to day life
> with my stepson. It isn't about parading them around or fireworks or
> vacations. All of those things are nice...but the day to day sharing of
> his life (which now we attempt to do from over 1000 miles away on the phone
> and by photos and weekly letters) is so much more real.
>
> W. Makah
I'm not saying it is better to be the non-custodial parent. What a
horrible way to raise your kids. But what I don't understand is this:
If my son (he'll be 2 this month) was for some reason located 1000 miles
away from me, I would be packing my belongings, selling the house,
quitting
my job and moving the 1000 miles to be near him. I wouldn't stay
half-way
across the country from him and whine about it.
Sorry for being so blunt.
-Dean
Jeanette Cameron
Dean Barker wrote:
I thought about moving to where SD lived which is an economically depressed
city. Moving there would mean both of us giving up good careers and making a
career change and our income would decrease which would mean giving our future
kids less. Where we live at, I can work at McDonald's and make more money than
some people that live where my SD does.
My husband didn't think this was fair to me or to our future kids.
Even if we did move to the same city, as evil and vindicative my SD's mother is,
she would move to another state or city or we would have to put up with even more
of her false accusations, mind games, etc. We would never have any peace.
va...@tdi.net
All your points are very valid. I think that Merrie is right though -
just "give" him the weekend instead of trading or rotating the whole
schedule. I wouldn't give him every single weekend that he asked for,
but be reasonable.
Your sk's are very lucky to have a stepdad like you!
Take Care!
Dean Barker
>
> Dean Barker wrote:
> >
> > horrible way to raise your kids. But what I don't understand is this:
> > If my son (he'll be 2 this month) was for some reason located 1000 miles
> > away from me, I would be packing my belongings, selling the house,
> > quitting
> > my job and moving the 1000 miles to be near him. I wouldn't stay
> > half-way
> > across the country from him and whine about it.
> >
> > Sorry for being so blunt.
> >
> > -Dean
>
> I thought about moving to where SD lived which is an economically depressed
> city. Moving there would mean both of us giving up good careers and making a
> career change and our income would decrease which would mean giving our future
> kids less. Where we live at, I can work at McDonald's and make more money than
> some people that live where my SD does.
>
> My husband didn't think this was fair to me or to our future kids.
>
> Even if we did move to the same city, as evil and vindicative my SD's mother is,
> she would move to another state or city or we would have to put up with even more
> of her false accusations, mind games, etc. We would never have any peace.
As a STEP-parent, I agree with you. I'm just saying that I couldn't
imagine
living away from my own son, however I couldn't imagine divorcing my
wife
either...it just ain't gonna happen.
Also, isn't it possible to prevent the custodial parent from moving,
legally?
I know my wife is not allowed to move more than 150 miles from the town
where the divorce took place. When she married me she moved 145 miles, I
felt
bad for the kids dad and promised that he would see the kids every other
week
during the school year and half the summer and we would meet him at a
half-way
point for every trip. As the years have passed and issues have come and
gone
he has forgotten that we meet him half way out of the goodness of our
hearts,
we are in no way obligated to do so. No matter how bad things get we
will
not stop doing that because 1) it was a promise, and 2) it works out
better
for the kids.
-Dean
Jeanette Cameron
Dean Barker wrote:
How did it come about that your wife can't move more than 150 miles away? Did the
court have something to do with this?
A family member of mine had custody of her child and the father had visitation rights.
She ended up moving out of state. The father brought to the judges attention that she
might be leaving the state and the judge told him there was nothing wrong with that.
Circe
state. She was a constant source of harassment then and continued to be
after she moved. We did not give her a phone number when we moved out of
state which is just fine. She would call in the wee hours of the morning
drunk and abusive. Now she calls hubby's parents and harasses them.
Jeanette Cameron wrote in message <35C77F0B...@osu.edu>...
Wakanyeja Makah
>My husband practically packed his ex's bags for her when she moved out of
>state. She was a constant source of harassment then and continued to be
>after she moved. We did not give her a phone number when we moved out of
>state which is just fine. She would call in the wee hours of the morning
>drunk and abusive. Now she calls hubby's parents and harasses them.
>
Yes, but I believe the question would be- Does your husband and his ex have
a child (or children) together?
That changes everything.
W. Makah
Jeanette Cameron
Circe wrote:
> My husband practically packed his ex's bags for her when she moved out of
> state. She was a constant source of harassment then and continued to be
> after she moved. We did not give her a phone number when we moved out of
> state which is just fine. She would call in the wee hours of the morning
> drunk and abusive. Now she calls hubby's parents and harasses them.
>
Unfortunately, we have to give my SD's mother our telephone number and address
and she has to do the same. My husband's visitation order specifies they have
to notify each other about this information because while my SD is at home with
her mother, he has telephone visitation (can call to speak with SD for 30
minutes once a week) and while my SD is with us for part of the summer the
mother has telephone visitation. Also according to the visitation order, we are
to pick up my SD from the mother's home and return her there as well for our
every other weekend visitation. While SD is with us for the summer, the mother
has every other weekend visitation, so both parents have to be informed about
the other parent's phone number and address. For us not to give the mother our
phone number and our address would mean that we are in violation of the
visitation order and we could be held in contempt.
Dean Barker
>
> How did it come about that your wife can't move more than 150 miles away? Did the
> court have something to do with this?
>
> A family member of mine had custody of her child and the father had visitation rights.
> She ended up moving out of state. The father brought to the judges attention that she
> might be leaving the state and the judge told him there was nothing wrong with that.
We are in the state of Wisconsin and the 2 of them have joint-custody
with my wife being the residential parent. She is not allowed to move
out of state or more than 150 miles. The way I understand it this is
common in Wisconsin. The schedule of when the kids see their dad is
set up now as being whatever the 2 of them can agree on. The agreement
worked fine for over 5 years (3 of them with me involved) until last
Christmas, since then things have gone bad. There are 2 things that I
can think that have changed that may be causing him to change the way
he thinks about things. 1) He had been getting by without paying CS by
claiming he had no job, after years of that the CS agency in the state
ordered him to pay $205/mo. minimum, which is what he would have to pay
if he had a full-time minimum wage job. 2) The kids are getting older,
12 yo boy & 8 yo girl, he is losing the affect he had them of being
"daddy".
They are becoming less attached. Nothing out of the normal for kids that
age in any situation, they are simply growing up. He does not try to
show any interest in the things they are interested in and pushes for
them
to be interested in the things he does. He puts down the things they
like. I think his times with them are becoming less "fun" and he is
taking
it out on my wife and I. We didn't do it, but he doesn't see that.
I hope that some of the step-moms that read this and other things I say
can at least try to understand the views of the mom and step-dad who
have
custody. I do not believe that every bio-mom that is referenced here is
truly as evil and non-caring as they are made out to be.
-Dean
Sian Lee Reid
>
> How did it come about that your wife can't move more than 150 miles
away? Did the
> court have something to do with this?
>
> A family member of mine had custody of her child and the father had
visitation rights.
> She ended up moving out of state. The father brought to the judges
attention that she
> might be leaving the state and the judge told him there was nothing
wrong with that.
Jeanne, it all has to do with what is written in the order. Ours says
that NEITHER parent can move more than 50 kilometres (we're in Canada)
from the region in which the divorce took place without a full custody
review taking place.
Sian
Jeanette Cameron
Dean Barker wrote:
> Jeanette Cameron wrote:
> >
> > How did it come about that your wife can't move more than 150 miles away? Did the
> > court have something to do with this?
> >
> > A family member of mine had custody of her child and the father had visitation rights.
> > She ended up moving out of state. The father brought to the judges attention that she
> > might be leaving the state and the judge told him there was nothing wrong with that.
>
I wish that some of the stepfathers and the biological mothers that do have custody would
try to understand or take a look at the cruel, insane, evil, unnecessary, and childish
things they put the noncustodial biological fathers and stepmothers through. I wish these
people would ask themselves a question. Would I like to be treated this way? If not, then
why am I doing this to someone?
True not every biological mother is an evil and non-caring individual. Its probably also
true that not every biological father referenced here is as evil and non-caring as made out
to be either.
lilblakdog
your posts, but I think you're more interested in taking your frustration
out on these kids' father than you are in doing what's best for them. But
I don't think you see it. I agree that he seems to be something of a
deadbeat. Eventually--when they are older--they will come to realize that
their father is a deadbeat and they will have to decide for themselves
whether they will accept that and love him anyway or cut him loose. But
they are far too young to make that decision and you cannot make it for
them. And neither can their mother. And I know that you think that you're
being more than generous, but from your posts it's very obvious to us that
you resent having to let your stepchildren see them at all. And believe
me, that will bleed out over time and these children will be affected by
your feelings. It's going to work one of two ways...either it will taint
their feelings for their father or it will turn them against you. Neither
of which you will want to do. So here are a couple of suggestions
regarding this particular post.
Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> wrote in article <35C5EF...@cray.com>...
> Problem #1) How can we ever plan anything for any weekend when the whole
> rotation
> can be changed whenever he wants it changed.
It can't be changed whenever he wants it changed. Make plans for your
weekends and if you don't feel you can change them, explain to him that you
have plans and will not be able to switch for that weekend. You
know...like if there's going to be a fair in town or if you've decided to
visit grandma or something. However, if you've only planned to go to the
park or something like that, cut the guy a little slack. Regardless of how
you feel about him or how much money he contributes to their upbringing, he
is their father and they are as much his as they are their mother's.
> Problem #2) Money. It is a 340 mile round trip to dad's house of which
> we drive
> half of it. We can not afford to do this 3 out of 4 weekends.
So tell him that if he wants them for an extra weekend, he will have to
find a way to transport them. You cannot afford it. You are not obligated
to bring them half way, so tell him that you will continue it for his
regular weekends (so long as you can afford that) but that you cannot
handle the extra expense, just because he wants an extra weekend. Not only
will it cut your expenses, but it will probably have an affect on the
number of times he tries to talk you into an extra visit.
> Problem #3) Where does it end? How many times does this happen and when
> should
> we put our foot down and stop it?
You shouldn't. He's their father...so long as he isn't getting more
visitation than he's entitled to, it's not your right to stop it. And if
he is getting more visitation than he's entitled to, and it isn't hurting
you or the kids to allow it, what's wrong with that? If you have a valid
problem with the amount of visitation he has, take him back to court. If
the courts agree with you, they will stop it. If they don't, they won't
and you will have to go along with it. He has the right to see his
children and, quite simply, you have no business trying to stop him.
> Mom may never go more than two days without seeing the kids, but in her
> mind it
> is 2 too many. At some point you have to look at who was so eager to
> break up
> the family and then later on make demands to take the kids away from
> their mom.
> Mom doesn't have to stand for it.
Now see? This is you and Mom trying to get back at Dad for breaking up the
family. Are you and Mom happy? Is Dad? Then isn't it best that the
family broke up? That's how I look at things. My stepson's four parents
are thrilled that his biological parents decided to break up the
family...we have created two very happy, very loving families, rather than
one that fights constantly and can't stand each other. You are not in any
danger of having him "take the kids away from their mom." She has custody.
She will retain custody, so long as he's not working and--unless there's
something else going on in your home--for the rest of their childhood. So
long as she feels that she owns them and if he wanted to see them he
shouldn't have left, she's going to resent having to give up a day or two.
But she doesn't own them. He was there too (of course if he wasn't, that's
another issue) and they are half his. Therefore, he gets to see his
children too and she'll have to get used to living without them for a day
or two. Get her a bottle of wine...go see a movie. Remind her that a 24-7
grip on her children is not entirely healthy for anybody. Once she's got
revenge off of her mind, she might find that she enjoys the "adults only"
time as much as she does the family time...or even more! It's his right to
undisturbed time with his children, whether we think he deserves it or not.
It's also the kids' right, regardless of whether or not they think they
want that right now. As I stated earlier, they are too young to understand
the importance of knowing their father at this point, so you have to do
everything you can to encourage them to keep the communication lines open.
That is all part of raising healthy children.
You mentioned in one post that he tries to involve them in things that he
enjoys and isn't so interested in the things that they enjoy. I think a
lot of fathers do that...mine did, and my parents were happily married
until he died when I was fifteen. I think these are very real and very
valid fears for all fathers...and you probably haven't experienced them,
because you don't have biological children of your own. At fourteen, I
liked makeup and fashion...sewing and 80's music. My father loved ghost
towns and second hand stores and Hank Williams. Needless to say, we were
not able to spend a whole lot of happy, quality time together. However, my
biological makeup is his...I found that, as an adult, I absolutely *love*
ghost towns, I gravitate to boxes marked "five for a dollar", and I have a
copy of every Hank Williams song ever recorded. I would probably never
have experienced these things if my father hadn't tried to interest me in
them as a child. And it's probably worse for your stepchildren's father
because they're not with him...they're growing up without things that are
important to him.
And as far as it being so awful that Mom has to live without the kids for
the two days that Dad has them, as wife of an NCP father I can assure you
that those two days are just as difficult for Dad. It's pretty arrogant to
think that Mom loves them more and can't live without them more, simply
because she's Mom.
You know, when my husband and I start having children I intend to stay home
with them. He'll be paying for everything for them, except for what
happens to be covered by the family allowance that all parents get from the
Canadian government. I'd hate to think that one day he could tell me that
I'm less entitled to them because I didn't pay for them!
lil
Sian Lee Reid
<lilbl...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
> You know, when my husband and I start having children I intend to stay home
> with them. He'll be paying for everything for them, except for what
> happens to be covered by the family allowance that all parents get from the
> Canadian government. I'd hate to think that one day he could tell me that
> I'm less entitled to them because I didn't pay for them!
>
> lil
Family allowance (universal) went out with the Mulroney era...
Sian
lilblakdog
Sian Lee Reid <slr...@alfred.carleton.ca> wrote in article
<slreid-0608...@192.0.2.1>...
> Family allowance (universal) went out with the Mulroney era...
Yeah, I knew I was showing my age. :-)
I was from a family that lived for the 21st of the month, when that cheque
would come in the mail and we could go to Army & Navy and get the stuff we
desperately needed.
Parents still get some kind of credit-type thing, though...they've just
changed the name of it. At least that was my understanding. At any rate,
I remember how much it was for and certainly wasn't planning on sending my
kids to university on it, so it's not a big tragedy if I understood wrong!
lil
Sian Lee Reid
<lilbl...@my-dejanews.com> wrote:
The Child Tax Benefit (which is what replaced the Family Allowance) is
income scaled, and targets low income working families. What qualifies as
'low income' depends on how many children you have in residence. It is
taxed back as your income increases, and disappears altogether by the time
you hit $50K.
Sian
lilblakdog
Sian Lee Reid <slr...@alfred.carleton.ca> wrote in article
> The Child Tax Benefit (which is what replaced the Family Allowance) is
> income scaled, and targets low income working families. What qualifies as
> 'low income' depends on how many children you have in residence. It is
> taxed back as your income increases, and disappears altogether by the
time
> you hit $50K.
LOL!!! Okay, we're not in any trouble here...I think we'll probably fall
into "low income" pretty well! If everything goes well, we'll have three
kids in residence (four, if we can ever talk my stepson's mom into letting
him be with his father) and living off DH's income...and whereas he's
currently in the middle of getting his business degree, he's never going to
fall under doctor or lawyer status. We usually make just enough to lose
our GST rebate (thank you so much, Canadian government), but that will
change on our next return because I've quit working out of the house and
haven't been making a whole lot in the house either!
Do you want to know something funny? My older brother was a general
manager for Famous Players Theatres and made a lot of money at it...not
only did they pay extremely well, but he's cheap and he clips cupons. He
generally worked 20 hour days, so there was no real time to spend the
money, and he got to see all movies--his only major vice--for free.
Anyway, he must have fallen in at just under the $33k, because he still
received his full GST rebate (which DH and I miss by about $500 each year
and have to struggle through without it). Then he decided to take a year
off and live off of his considerable savings. The next year he did his
taxes with zeros all the way through and got a $50 refund for his British
Columbia tax credit!
Lord, I hate the government! :-Ş
lil