HELP!!!!!!
lilblakdog
>So what do all you very expeirenced step parents have to say? Do I clam up
and
>let him decide what to do, even if it hurts me? Or do I lay the law down
now,
>even if it hurts him? Have any of you been faced with a situation like
this?
>How have you handled it?
Yeucch. I hate giving an honest answer after being told how wonderful we
all are.
Suzie, I hate to tell you this but I think you're going to have to back off
a little. You've waited a long time to become a "we". But your "we" is not
you and BF...not even you, BF and your kids. Your "we" is you, BF, your
kids, and your kids' other bioparents. And that means that there are
compromises *all* the way around.
Sure, maybe his kids are spoiled brats. But (and this is a nasty
black-and-white attitude that you can feel free to hate me for) if you've
been around for nine years they probably have a lot more reason to be
poisoned against you than just what their mom has to say about you. It's
not easy to know that Dad's with someone else when he should be with Mom and
he's only sticking around out of a sense of duty. And now that they've
reached "age x", he feels free to leave them behind. Which is what it
probably looks like to them, regardless of how you and BF feel about it.
If you come in with, "If your children don't care that you're happier with
me, they can just do without you," you aren't going to be earning any points
with anybody. These kids are old enough that they can start making a few
decisions of their own. You can't come in with "*I'm* the step-parent and
*you* have to respect that." They probably won't.
My uncle had four children about that age when he finally left his wife for
his girlfriend. To this day--twenty years later--she is still just "the
woman he married". I've even seen cards in greeting stores that say, "To my
father and his wife" (I was thinking of getting one from DH and I for my
in-laws! :-). It's not a new phenomena, for sure. Technically, you may
become their stepmother. But respect is earned, even by bioparents.
I think it's time for you and BF to sit down and discuss what you *both*
want out of the holidays. And figure out a way that works for both of you,
even if it's not perfect for either of you. DH and I spent the majority of
Christmas apart...we just made the most of the other 364 days. And
Thanksgiving stretched out over two nights--one with his family and one with
mine. He was always there for my birthday and Valentine's Day, but he was
often gone for Easter, stepson's birthday and New Year's. Halloween we
spend as a family. We worked out the holidays that were deathly important
and the ones we could let slide; the ones that were for lovers and ones that
were for loved ones. Maybe BF will have to have a holiday or two away from
his children to make you happy. But he can't spend *all* of them with you,
to make you happy. You have to give a little too. It was your choice to
wait for a man with a past; now you need to deal with that. Do you know
what I mean?
Life is not perfect and won't be in the forseeable future. You've got to
roll with things a bit.
lil
---
"I'm calm; I'm just opinionated." -- Karen West
Suzmatz
you are!
I've hidden in the shadows out here in cyberspace listening to all your advice
and help you so freely give.
I now find myself in a situation I'd like some opinions on.
First a little background on what brings me here.
My boyfriend and I have been seeing each other for just over 9 years. He just
left his wife and children this past summer and has finally comitted himself to
me and our realtionship. He had been miserable in his marriage for many years
but waited until the children were older to actually leave. We plan to be
married as soon as his divorce is final, although he has not filed yet. That
will officially give me two step daughters. So I think I now qualify to
participate in this news group.
This will be our first holiday that we are officially together out in the open,
no more sneaking around (although his family has known me for years and
approved of our realtionship as his wife is a real you know what) no more
holidays spent alone. Or so I thought.
Thanksgiving is but two short days away. And I am not very happy or feeling so
thankfull right now. This past Sunday ( Sunday is his day he goes to see his
children and the kids will only see him at their home) his wife told him the
children expected him to be there for Thanksgiving dinner and then suggested
they all go see a movie after dinner. When he told me this I was none to
pleased. I asked him what he wants to do and he seems very torn. He wants to
spend the holidays with his children but he wants to be with me too! He would
love to bring the children ( 15 and 16 ) to my (actually ours, now) house to
celebrate with us ( that being me, him and my two kids 22 and 20) but his
children refuse to come to our home. I suggested we ( BF, my children, and I)
go to his mothers and he can bring his children there. It seems his children
won't do that either he tells me there would be a big scene if I was there with
his children (undoubtly she has poisoned the children against me). I told him
he needs to take a stand. These will be my step children after his divorce is
final and we are married. I do not want to spend any portion of my holidays
away from the man I have waited for so long to be mine. But I also know how
much it would hurt him not to see his children on the holidays. I told him he
needs to be the parent and let his children know they do not make the
decisions, he does. He feels they would just choose to not see him if they were
forced to spend any holiday with me and my children. I feel that if his kids
care so little about him and his happiness then they don't deserve to see him
for any holiday. If he lets them get away with telling him what to do now what
will happen for Christmas, Easter, his vacation time? Am I going to have to
force him to choose between me and his children? Will he resent me for this? Or
should I just keep quite ( of course I would let him know in other ways how
hurt and dissapointed I am) and continue to be without the love of my life on
all the major holidays? The holidays have always been a time I longed to be
with him. Now that he and I are together I thought we would. Now his children
(who are over indulged spoiled brats not only in my opinion but in his families
too) are coming between us on the days that I thought we would finally be able
to share together.
So what do all you very expeirenced step parents have to say? Do I clam up and
let him decide what to do, even if it hurts me? Or do I lay the law down now,
even if it hurts him? Have any of you been faced with a situation like this?
How have you handled it?
Thanks,
SuzieQ
Jennaii
NOT do it till you get all these things worked out. Since he hasn't even filed
yet you still have plenty of time to decide if this is what you really want,
(and so does he).
If you've been following this newsgroup you know how difficult stepparenting is
under GOOD circumstances. Throw in kids that start OUT hating you and ...
well.. you got a mess on your hands. And in your case it sounds like your
boyfriends wife isn't letting go of him easily.
The husband is the only one who can take care of this. HE must decide what he
wants to do.
>
>So what do all you very expeirenced step parents have to say? Do I clam up
>and
>let him decide what to do, even if it hurts me? Or do I lay the law down now,
>even if it hurts him? Have any of you been faced with a situation like this?
>How have you handled it?
>
>
>Thanks,
>
>SuzieQ
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Donna
Hi Susie!
Wow, that sounds like a really hurtful situation you are in. Tragically,
I'm not sure I can offer you advice that you want to hear. <sigh>
My opinion (speaking, by the way, as the soon-to-be stepmom (we have some
commonality, there)) is that you need to step back from this situation and
let DH and biomom arrange the holiday.
Please don't be hurt. I think I know *exactly* how you feel. You are
considering yourself to be part of the family, and feel excluded when no one
but your sweetheart returns these feelings. I *know*. The thing is,
blended families are really difficult things to be a part of, sometimes, and
usually if there is any strain at all, it shows up at the holidays. If you
try to force things, you will end up with years (and years) of anger and
rejection from the stepkids. And hassles from biomom.
I'm not saying this isn't going to happen whatever you do, of course, but by
insisting that *your* wishes be honored over those of the original family
members, particularly while you are still the fiancée, you practically
guarantee years of aftermath. Not a pretty sight.
The kids are *not* going to accept you as a member of the family this year.
I hate to tell you, but I bet it doesn't happen next year, either. Or the
year after that. *However*.... if you can smile cheerfully, and make other
plans this year (because you are *not* married yet, and the kids are going
to use that as an axe, and if you and your husband go with the flow (e.g.:
let biomom have them for the meal if she wants them, pick them up
afterwards) for a couple of years after that, than *maybe*, eventually, the
kids will begin to accept that you are, in fact, part of their lives, and
begin to welcome you at holidays.
Look, I *know* that sometimes this sucks. I'm in the same situation. I
*know*. But. As the stepmother, you *have* to be the one who is prepared
to give way gracefully at holiday times. (Gritting ones teeth and snarling
in private, I find, is pretty much the way to go. <grin>) Sure, you could
demand your own way, but that puts your sweetheart in the awful position of
having to choose between his kids and his darling fiancée/wife. That's such
an unkind thing to do.
Finally, you speak of "laying down the law", which is an awful mindset for
solving a problem. No one gets to tell another person what to do. You
might consider thinking of what is going to be the best way to solve this
problem, rather than to dictate your demands. It really is a group of
people you are marrying, not just a man. If you can accept that, you may
find that problems are easier to work out.
Anyway, I feel for you -- so much. Hang in there, and please consider
taking the long view and letting the others set the holiday agendas for the
next few years. Nothings guaranteed, but I truly believe that you will have
a much happier life with this family you're marrying into with this
approach.
Best wishes, and Happy Thanksgiving, from one who is in a similar space.
Donna
Suzmatz wrote in message <19991123232212...@ng-fr1.aol.com>...
<snip>
april...@my-deja.com
hopefully your situation is different, but I have to worry about you,
when you say you have been in the picture for so many years, and yet SO
still hasnt cut the ties to his wife, and plans to be with his family
for the holidays.....
my best friend was involved with a married man for a looonnnggg time.
He always had an excuse to not leave his wife...either it wasnt the
right time, she was sick, his son wasnt old enough, money problems,
etc,etc. She spent every holiday alone, and they could never have a
normal courtship, as it's a small town and they couldnt just go to
dinner or a movie...she gave him money hand over fist, to help him
catch up on bills, then to finance the divorce. he finally filed
papers, and moved in with my friend. Even still, he spent all holidays
and many weekends with his ex, and of course his son grew to resent my
friend(and I can certainly understand why). They lived together for
about 2 years....then one day, she came home from work, and he was
gone. Cleaned out thier bank account, stuck her with all the bills and
rent, and had went back to his exwife and son.
So I wonder about your SO....if he truly loves you that much and wants
to be with you...IMO he would have left his wife many years ago. And
if he ever does decide to leave, to be with you....who;s to say he wont
either go back, or find someone else? If he's cheating on her with you,
what makes you think he would be faithful to you? I'm sorry, but i just
dont want you to get hurt.....I have learned the hard way, that if they
do it once, there is nothing to stop them from doing it again....I'd
think long and hard about continuing a relationship with this man. To
quote the great Ann Landers....are you better off with him? Or without
him?
In article <19991123232212...@ng-fr1.aol.com>,
> So what do all you very expeirenced step parents have to say? Do I
clam up and
> let him decide what to do, even if it hurts me? Or do I lay the law
down now,
> even if it hurts him? Have any of you been faced with a situation
like this?
> How have you handled it?
>
> Thanks,
>
> SuzieQ
>
>
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Suzmatz
I guess I am just a bit surprised his children can be so uncaring for thier
father. While I understand they must miss having him around as much as they
used to, I still feel they need to deal with their fathers decision and be fair
to him.
As far as considering his wife a part of any we. No way. She has been the cause
of all of his problems. Over spending, paying no attention to him, etc.
basically if I hadn't come into his life he probably would have been dead years
ago. Actually when she told him she would most likely take the children and
move to be near her family, I told him to fight it. Now I think the best thing
would be for her to take the children and start new lives for themselves just
like their father and I have.
I'm sure this isn't easy for them to know their father loves me more than he
ever loved their mother. I don't know why they should hate me, though. From
what he and his family have told me no one from his family ever liked her and I
am much better for him than she ever was. I wonder how long it will take his
children to see this too?
Divorce is so common these days. My children haven't seen their biofather in
years. They haven't had the best of lives, but they have survived. Why should
his children be given any more consideration than other children of divorce?
Visitation can be set by the courts. The children will have no choice as to how
, when and where they see their father. They need to accept this and deal with
it. What I don't want to see happen is for this to become a pattern. Every
holiday needing us to be apart. I'm not greedy mind you. I guess I can live
with him going to see them for a few hours on holidays. But when he eats with
them and spends the entire day with them, that is where I draw the line. As for
him not only eating the holiday meal with his wife and children , but also
taking his children and her to the movies? No way in hell. Hoildays are for
families. I am his new famliy. If his children choose to be a part of his
family then they need to accept this.
Respect is something children should show adults. If the adult is a good person
than the respect grows. I think his children should respect all adults,
including me. But then again they have been in control of his old family for
many years.
They don't have to love me when they meet me (if that ever hapens). But they do
need to be respectful. They also owe it to their father to give me a chance to
be a part of their lives. I know my boyfriend will be very unhappy without his
children in his life. I just don't know how to convince them that he needs me
and them together.
We talked about it last night. He isn't sure what he's going to do yet. I'm
home today baking cooking and preparing for our feast. He is considering either
telling his children he's sick and staying home with us (he did this on
Halloween as I have a granddaughter that we were able to take trick or treating
and his children are really past that age) or going there for a few hours in
the afternoon.
As far a spliting the holidays. Unless they have him every holiday they will
not be happy. They don't care what he wants or needs they are too self involved
and always have been.
Yes I chose to wait for my soul mate. But his past is just that his past. His
children need to cooperate if they want to be a part of his future.
I know life isn't perfect. I just wish his children didn't think it should be
for them and not for anyone else.
Again, thanks for you input. You've given me some things to think about. I just
wish our future looked easier than our past was.
SuzieQ
Suzmatz
what you mean. Biomoms, as they are called here, are a pain in the ass, and the
step kids are too! But we love each other and nothing will change that! I
mentioned to lil, that his wife wants to move several thousand miles away with
the kids, I think I'll help her pack!
I think you really hit on something when you said his wife isn't letting go of
him easily. He wants me and loves me. He wants his children and loves them. His
wife is the odd man out. She isn't dealing with this very well, from what he
has told me. But he is such a wondeful man he doesn't want her to be any more
hurt than she already is. So he puts up with the kids demands. I wonder just
how much of the demands come from her and how much actually come from the
children? The whole taking them to movies is what really bothers me. If he
wanted to take just the children I could deal with that. But take her? Why? I
think he needs to stop playing happy family with her and the children for all
of their sakes. The longer she and the children think there is a chance they
can get back together the harder it's going to be for them to understand their
family as they once knew it is gone.
Is there anyway I can get him to understand that he is still letting her
control him? To help him cut the court to her?
Thanks again,
SuzieQ
Tracey
(Suzmatz) writes:
>Biomoms, as they are called here, are a pain in the ass, and the
>step kids are too!
Whoa a minute there. *I'm* a biomom and quite a few others here
are, too, and that's a bit of a blanket statement to make. I was planning
on answering your original post later when I had more time and I
will, but, one thing I would like to point out here: Your BF's wife
is in a very bad position here and, no matter *what* she has done
in the past, you need to find it within yourself to have some empathy
for her and her situation AND for the kids and their situation. If not,
I predict spending a lot more holidays alone because if you make it
a 'choose your kids or me' scenario to your BF, it's highly possible
that the kids will be his choice (and, if they aren't, IMO, he wouldn't
be much of a prize anyway.)
Tracey
Anne Robotti
freaking me out. I have some comments about this, and I'm aware
they may sound cold, but it seems to me that you have *no* feel
for the realities of this situation and your BF's children's
probable attitude toward you.
Suzmatz wrote:
>
> I guess I am just a bit surprised his children can be so uncaring for thier
> father. While I understand they must miss having him around as much as they
> used to, I still feel they need to deal with their fathers decision and be fair
> to him.
I doubt if it's him they don't care for. It seems to me that they're very
clearly expressing that they are unwilling to spend their holidays with *you.*
Not their father. It's not a point of "missing having him around." He's LEFT
their mother, they are hurt, angry, bitter... they probably have had to hide
these feelings for years while they knew all about you. I'm just wondering, what
could you *possibly* have thought was going to happen this year? His kids would
come over to your house (betcha none of them will set foot there) and you'd all
have a big celebration of the fact that their dad has chosen you over them?! Be-
cause that's no doubt how they feel. You'd better get it in your mind that they
may *never* be willing to spend holidays with you. You/he might be able to force
them now because of their ages, but I'll bet that for YEARS they're going to be
returning gifts that have your name on the tag with their dad's, making other
plans for holidays... Deal with it. It's your new reality and you can't just make
everybody fall in line with what you envision as your new perfect situation.
>
> As far as considering his wife a part of any we. No way. She has been the cause
> of all of his problems. Over spending, paying no attention to him, etc.
> basically if I hadn't come into his life he probably would have been dead years
> ago. Actually when she told him she would most likely take the children and
> move to be near her family, I told him to fight it. Now I think the best thing
> would be for her to take the children and start new lives for themselves just
> like their father and I have.
Hmmm... that certainly would be convenient. Is that how your DH feels also? Does
he know you feel this way? Kids don't just "start new lives for themselves" when
they lose their fathers. And do you *really* think you're the first mistress to
have heard that the wife was the cause of all a husband's problems? Believe it if
you want, but he stayed with her for a reason. And if it really was just for the
kids, then this is a family that his/your relationship has blown apart. I'm not
saying that she's not a total bitch, my husband's ex certainly is. But I've taken
off the blinders in the past few months, NOBODY is the cause of all somebody else's
problems. People cause or tolerate their own problems.
>
> I'm sure this isn't easy for them to know their father loves me more than he
> ever loved their mother. I don't know why they should hate me, though. From
> what he and his family have told me no one from his family ever liked her and I
> am much better for him than she ever was. I wonder how long it will take his
> children to see this too?
Seriously, you don't know why they should hate you? You don't have any feel for
that at all? The children will *never* "see" what you're asking them to see. Let
me clear that little mystery up for you right now. The kids aren't on the list
of people who "never liked her" and you're asking an awful lot of them to realize
anything from your point of view.
>
> Divorce is so common these days. My children haven't seen their biofather in
> years. They haven't had the best of lives, but they have survived. Why should
> his children be given any more consideration than other children of divorce?
> Visitation can be set by the courts. The children will have no choice as to how
> , when and where they see their father. They need to accept this and deal with
> it. What I don't want to see happen is for this to become a pattern. Every
> holiday needing us to be apart. I'm not greedy mind you. I guess I can live
> with him going to see them for a few hours on holidays. But when he eats with
> them and spends the entire day with them, that is where I draw the line. As for
> him not only eating the holiday meal with his wife and children , but also
> taking his children and her to the movies? No way in hell. Hoildays are for
> families. I am his new famliy. If his children choose to be a part of his
> family then they need to accept this.
I'm going to tell you something, you've got the whole "stepparenting" thing kind
of backwards here. The children are his "then, now and future" family. It's up to
you to fit in. I understand that your relationship is finally out in the open
and you want to get on with doing family things and get some kind of societal
validation of your relationship in the form of family holidays, etc. His children
seem, to me at least, to be making their choice about whether to be a part of
*your* family crystal clear. And if the attitude you're expressing in the paragraph
above is going to be your attitude, you're going to alienate your BF from his
kids when it sounds like that's not what he wants. I understand the resentment
that their little "family holiday" is probably stirring up with you. And to be
honest, the movie afterwards sounds like some kind of cuteness from the wife, my
husband's X does that too. You really need to back off these kids though. If you
make your BF choose, sooner or later he's going to choose them. He did for nine
years. And just leaving his wife isnt' going to make him leave his kids too. You'd
really better discuss this with him. I don't think you're going to be seeing those
kids on holidays any time soon, and you'd really better find a way to get used to
it.
>
> Respect is something children should show adults. If the adult is a good person
> than the respect grows. I think his children should respect all adults,
> including me. But then again they have been in control of his old family for
> many years.
And then again, they may have a different opinion about whether their father's mistress
of nine years is a good person, deserving of their respect. They're people, they get
to make that determination. You're trying to force this, and it's going to backfire
in your face. Maybe, *MAYBE* after years and years you might get some kind of grudging
respect from them. But not this year. I'm not trying to be harsh, I'm really trying to
help you when I say, get over it. This year is gone. And, if your BF won't spend even
part of the holiday with you, or help you in any way to get over these feelings, maybe
he wasn't worth the nine years.
>
> They don't have to love me when they meet me (if that ever hapens). But they do
> need to be respectful. They also owe it to their father to give me a chance to
> be a part of their lives. I know my boyfriend will be very unhappy without his
> children in his life. I just don't know how to convince them that he needs me
> and them together.
I don't think it's up to you to do that. They will have no use for anything you
say. *He* needs to do that, but he needs to start very slowly, give them time to
heal... you seem to display very little respect for their pain, and you seem to
think they should just "get over it." They're choosing right now not to deal with
you at all. You really need to give them that space.
>
> We talked about it last night. He isn't sure what he's going to do yet. I'm
> home today baking cooking and preparing for our feast. He is considering either
> telling his children he's sick and staying home with us (he did this on
> Halloween as I have a granddaughter that we were able to take trick or treating
> and his children are really past that age) or going there for a few hours in
> the afternoon.
If he's lying they're going to know it. I'm for the "Sue and I are going to have
dinner at 1, I could come over and spend some time with you around 3. Of course
you're welcome at our house also" approach.
>
> As far a spliting the holidays. Unless they have him every holiday they will
> not be happy. They don't care what he wants or needs they are too self involved
> and always have been.
Pardon me for noticing, but you sound *really* self-involved also. You really seem
not to be noticing that everybody in this situation (except you, apparently) is in
a lot of pain. Your BF is in pain also, he's just hurt his children in a major way,
and any self-respecting parent is in a lot of pain over that. You're really going
to have to deal with that, or your relationship is not going to work out. Is it your
plan to pull on him as hard as his kids are, or to give him the time and space to
work out some kind of relationship for himself? Did you explain to him before he left
his wife that you were expecting this kind of "all or nothing" deal?
>
> Yes I chose to wait for my soul mate. But his past is just that his past. His
> children need to cooperate if they want to be a part of his future.
They are part of his future. You might be able to make him ignore that for a while,
but not long-term. Please don't try.
>
> I know life isn't perfect. I just wish his children didn't think it should be
> for them and not for anyone else.
Anyone else like you, for example? Because really, if you look at the situation
honestly, you'll see that they probably don't give a damn whether life is perfect
for you. They want their father in their house for the holiday. They have a right
to want that. How he handles it really should be up to him.
>
> Again, thanks for you input. You've given me some things to think about. I just
> wish our future looked easier than our past was.
I don't mean this sarcastically at all. I just wonder, what did you think your
future was going to be like? Did you forsee any of these problems? Any of these
reactions?
Anne
Someone
BM do things together once in a while.
When my parents spilt up, we still spent Christmas together and sometimes
other major holidays. I never thought they wanted to get back together,
and in fact I really really respected them for getting along when they were
together so that we could all enjoy each other's company.
Logistically, it also eliminated a lot of transporting back-and-forth on
holidays which nobody wants to do.
If SO wants to be with you, you shouldn't feel so threatened by him going
out with kids and BM. If you're truly confident in his love for you, this
would be a non-issue.
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991124140747...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
: Jennaii, I sure am going to marry him! I have read this news group and I
know
: what you mean. Biomoms, as they are called here, are a pain in the ass,
and the
: step kids are too! But we love each other and nothing will change that! I
:
Suzmatz
It's nice to know I am not alone in this type of situation!
I won't force his children to blend with me and mine. I just don't know how I
will be able to face holidays knowing he's with his ex and not me. I mean
that's why he's getting divorced, to be with me!
At this point I doubt they will ever want to be a part of our famliy. My
boyfriend hasn't spent much time with them the past 9 years. They are much more
attached to thier mother than him. I guess as long as their mother hates me and
won't accept me they will follow suit.
Gritting my teeth and snarling in private? I am a master of that! I just don't
know how long I can keep it up without having a breakdown!
I appreciate your kind words and understanding. However I am not marrying his
ex nor his children. That family is gone. Our new family will be open for his
children to be a part of. If they so choose. As for his wife no way, no how,
never!
Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
SuzieQ
Louise Taylor
> Thanks for your opinons lil.
> I guess I am just a bit surprised his children can be so uncaring for thier
> father. While I understand they must miss having him around as much as they
> used to, I still feel they need to deal with their fathers decision and be fair
> to him.
Why should they be fair to him when he hasn't be fair to them? You are
talking about teenagers here. Teenagers see the world from a very
egocentric view. What they see is that their father left their mother
after having an affair for nine years. It wasn't fair to them or their
mother. They aren't willing to compromise and I can't say that I blame
them. You "stole" their father away from them.
> As far as considering his wife a part of any we. No way. She has been the cause
> of all of his problems. Over spending, paying no attention to him, etc.
> basically if I hadn't come into his life he probably would have been dead years
> ago. Actually when she told him she would most likely take the children and
> move to be near her family, I told him to fight it. Now I think the best thing
> would be for her to take the children and start new lives for themselves just
> like their father and I have.
But his new life should include his children. They are his children.
Ignoring the problem won't make it go away. His children have issues with
him that they need to work through without any outside influences. His
children are to an age where they can set boundaries on their
relationships. They don't want to spend holidays with you. That is their
right. Can you blame them?
> I'm sure this isn't easy for them to know their father loves me more than he
> ever loved their mother. I don't know why they should hate me, though. From
> what he and his family have told me no one from his family ever liked her and I
> am much better for him than she ever was. I wonder how long it will take his
> children to see this too?
They hate you for taking away their dad and causing their mother pain. It
isn't about who their dad loves more. It is about their dad's lack of
commitment to his family. It is about him cheating on their mother. I
have adult friends whose father did this. They still refer to the other
woman as "that woman" and won't even call her by name. They resent the
hell out of her. And it wasn't like their mother was easy to live with
either. It comes down to loyalty, commitment and broken promises.
> Divorce is so common these days. My children haven't seen their biofather in
> years. They haven't had the best of lives, but they have survived. Why should
> his children be given any more consideration than other children of divorce?
Huh?
Children need a relationship with both of their parents. I can't speak
for your children but I imagine that it hurts them that they haven't had
contact with their father in years. Also, the circumstances surrounding
the divorce do tend to play a huge role in how well the children adjust to
the divorce.
> Visitation can be set by the courts. The children will have no choice as to how
> , when and where they see their father. They need to accept this and deal with
> it. What I don't want to see happen is for this to become a pattern. Every
> holiday needing us to be apart. I'm not greedy mind you. I guess I can live
> with him going to see them for a few hours on holidays. But when he eats with
> them and spends the entire day with them, that is where I draw the line. As for
> him not only eating the holiday meal with his wife and children , but also
> taking his children and her to the movies? No way in hell. Hoildays are for
> families. I am his new famliy. If his children choose to be a part of his
> family then they need to accept this.
I think you are being very selfish and show a complete lack of empathy and
understanding. I also think what he really wants to do may be an
indication about the future of your relationship.
> They don't have to love me when they meet me (if that ever hapens). But they do
> need to be respectful. They also owe it to their father to give me a chance to
> be a part of their lives. I know my boyfriend will be very unhappy without his
> children in his life. I just don't know how to convince them that he needs me
> and them together.
Why do they owe anything to their father? No one is owed anything in this
life. He lost their respect and he is going to have to work like hell to
get it back. He doesn't need you and them together. His need for you is
completely separate from his need to have a relationship with his
children. You are going to have to accept that he has children from
another marriage and that that relationship has been damaged. It needs to
be repaired.
> We talked about it last night. He isn't sure what he's going to do yet. I'm
> home today baking cooking and preparing for our feast. He is considering either
> telling his children he's sick and staying home with us (he did this on
> Halloween as I have a granddaughter that we were able to take trick or treating
> and his children are really past that age) or going there for a few hours in
> the afternoon.
Lying to his children again shouldn't be an option. He needs to either
tell them the truth or tell them nothing. Why can't he just go for some
time in the afternoon? Why can't he take just them to the movies?
> As far a spliting the holidays. Unless they have him every holiday they will
> not be happy. They don't care what he wants or needs they are too self involved
> and always have been.
Their children, for god's sakes. Children are self-involved. They have
been hurt by someone that they trusted. You act as if they should just
shrug it off and move on. Well, it isn't that easy.
> Yes I chose to wait for my soul mate. But his past is just that his past. His
> children need to cooperate if they want to be a part of his future.
I hate to say this but I don't like your attitude about any of this.
Can't you see that you are part of the problem here? You are going to
have to start making compromises or you risk losing him all together. I
have never asked my DH to choose between me and his children. It would be
wrong. You can't expect children to act like adults with years of life
under their belts. They aren't capable of it. I think your expectations
are way out of line.
Louise
Kim Scheinberg
>him easily. He wants me and loves me. He wants his children and loves them. His
>wife is the odd man out. She isn't dealing with this very well, from what he
Um, let's try this on for size:
His kids love their mom. His kids love their dad
See if you can figure out who, exactly, is the odd man out here
-k.
--
ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
Someone
I personally find your attitude about his children upsetting. You're
looking after your own happiness, not your SO's. Your happiness is to
force the kids to accept you and to force SO to neglect his relationship
with his children to your benefit. *His* happiness is very different, I am
assuming.
The kids have absolutely no obligation to you.
If you're going to refute the advice you asked for with the same arguments
which, many of us know from experience, will only lead to more severe
problems, then don't ask for the advice in the first place.
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991124134916...@ng-fz1.aol.com>...
snip
Now I think the best thing
: would be for her to take the children and start new lives for themselves
just
: like their father and I have.
snip
Suzmatz
understood is that I am his family now. Yes his kids will always be his kids.
But they will be out on their own in time and I will be the one with him until
the end.
His wife was so involved in spoiling and over indulging thier children she
wouldn't have seen it if it bit her in the ass. The kids didn't suspect a thing
either. As long as dad bought them eveything they wanted they were happy.
Emotional scares are a part of life. My parents split when I was very young. I
dealt with it. So can his his kids. My children haven't seen their father in
over 5 years. They have had problems but who is to say that wouldn't have
happened even if they had seen him?
His children need to accept his choice to be with me. They don't have to fall
all over me but they need to give me a chance, repspect me, and think of their
fathers happiness, not just their own.
What makes you think he'll spend the rest of the holidays in the future with
me, once we are married and not his kids? You've given me some hope here!
Please tell me why you think this! Did this happen to you? Now that you are
grown do you spend your holidays with your father and his new wife? Did you
rmother ever move on and leave her ex husband alone? Please share!
SuzieQ
Melissa Torresan
>Thanks for your opinons lil.
>
>I guess I am just a bit surprised his children can be so uncaring for thier
>father. While I understand they must miss having him around as much as they
>used to, I still feel they need to deal with their fathers decision and be fair
>to him.
As you have to be fair to them, and give them some time to deal with
the changes that have gone on in their lives. I'm just a bit surprised
that an adult can be so uncaring for her lover's children.
>As far as considering his wife a part of any we. No way. She has been the cause
>of all of his problems. Over spending, paying no attention to him, etc.
>basically if I hadn't come into his life he probably would have been dead years
>ago. Actually when she told him she would most likely take the children and
>move to be near her family, I told him to fight it. Now I think the best thing
>would be for her to take the children and start new lives for themselves just
>like their father and I have.
If you hadn't come into his life, perhaps he would have worked harder
on his marriage, or made up his mind and left. You're the one that has
allowed him to hang in between the two for nine years.
>I'm sure this isn't easy for them to know their father loves me more than he
>ever loved their mother. I don't know why they should hate me, though. From
>what he and his family have told me no one from his family ever liked her and I
>am much better for him than she ever was. I wonder how long it will take his
>children to see this too?
Perhaps they hate you because for the last nine years, you've been
having an affair with their father, and they had absolutely no idea.
Perhaps their father was wrong to wait until the children grew up,
because all this time they've been thinking they're living in a happy
family. I can imagine how absolutely shattered they must be - not to
mention his wife - did she see this coming?
>Divorce is so common these days. My children haven't seen their biofather in
>years. They haven't had the best of lives, but they have survived. Why should
>his children be given any more consideration than other children of divorce?
>Visitation can be set by the courts. The children will have no choice as to how
>, when and where they see their father. They need to accept this and deal with
>it. What I don't want to see happen is for this to become a pattern. Every
>holiday needing us to be apart. I'm not greedy mind you. I guess I can live
>with him going to see them for a few hours on holidays. But when he eats with
>them and spends the entire day with them, that is where I draw the line. As for
>him not only eating the holiday meal with his wife and children , but also
>taking his children and her to the movies? No way in hell. Hoildays are for
>families. I am his new famliy. If his children choose to be a part of his
>family then they need to accept this.
Well aren't you a selfish woman. You've got him 24/7 now, and you
can't give up just a little time? You might see yourself as his new
family, but that doesn't mean his old family cease to exist, although
I am sure if you could arrange that, you would. Divorce might be
common, but its the first time to these kids. By the way - the
children are of an age where they can go into court and say "I want
nothing to do with my father" and the court will usually take their
feelings into account. Don't think that you'll just snap your fingers
and get visitation.
>Respect is something children should show adults. If the adult is a good person
>than the respect grows. I think his children should respect all adults,
>including me. But then again they have been in control of his old family for
>many years.
Why on earth should they respect you? Do you have any idea how hurt
they must be feeling? No matter how you look at it, you *are* the
"other woman" and always will be - you're the woman that tore their
family to pieces. They probably lay a fair amount of blame on their
father, but you're going to cop most of it because no kid wants to
think their parent is an asshole.
>They don't have to love me when they meet me (if that ever hapens). But they do
>need to be respectful. They also owe it to their father to give me a chance to
>be a part of their lives. I know my boyfriend will be very unhappy without his
>children in his life. I just don't know how to convince them that he needs me
>and them together.
Why do they owe anything to either one of you? You can't even be
reasonable about holidays - I'd hate to think what would happen if
they gave you a chance to be a part of their lives. You're not these
children's mother, you never will be, and they have a right to know
and love their real mother - as well as their real father. You're not
even a step-parent yet, because being a step-parent means you want the
best for those kids, and you make sacrifices to ensure they get the
best. You can't even give up half a holiday! Boy have you got a lot to
learn.
>We talked about it last night. He isn't sure what he's going to do yet. I'm
>home today baking cooking and preparing for our feast. He is considering either
>telling his children he's sick and staying home with us (he did this on
>Halloween as I have a granddaughter that we were able to take trick or treating
>and his children are really past that age) or going there for a few hours in
>the afternoon.
Well, he's lied to his entire family so often in the past, why not add
another lie to the list?
>As far a spliting the holidays. Unless they have him every holiday they will
>not be happy. They don't care what he wants or needs they are too self involved
>and always have been.
Pot. Kettle. Black. So its a struggle between yourself, who wants him
for every holiday, and his kids. You're supposed to be an adult.
>Yes I chose to wait for my soul mate. But his past is just that his past. His
>children need to cooperate if they want to be a part of his future.
HE needs to cooperate if he wants to be part of THEIR future. So do
you.
>I know life isn't perfect. I just wish his children didn't think it should be
>for them and not for anyone else.
So it should be perfect for you, and not anyone else?
>Again, thanks for you input. You've given me some things to think about. I just
>wish our future looked easier than our past was.
Looks like its going to be very difficult. Grow up, and learn to
compromise. You've got the man, surely you can be generous and share
him with his kids on holidays. Do you expect everyone to forget the
past overnight now that you have what you want? I lost a lot of
friends when I left my husband - and that was two years ago, they're
still not over it. They are grown adults - how long do you think it'll
take for kids to get over it?
I'm sorry, but your attitude really pisses me off. The world does not
revolve around you.
Mel
---------------------------------------------------
Melissa Torresan
sm...@crosswinds.net
---------------------------------------------------
Kim Scheinberg
>
>His children need to accept his choice to be with me. They don't have to fall
>all over me but they need to give me a chance, repspect me, and think of their
>fathers happiness, not just their own.
No they don't. That you see this as a 'need' or even as a 'should' is a
huge part of your problem
Sian Lee Reid
(Suzmatz) wrote:
> Divorce is so common these days. My children haven't seen their biofather in
> years. They haven't had the best of lives, but they have survived. Why should
> his children be given any more consideration than other children of divorce?
> Visitation can be set by the courts. The children will have no choice as
to how
> , when and where they see their father. They need to accept this and deal with
> it.
No, actually, they probably don't. These 'children' are older teenagers.
*They* will decide with whom they will live and what sort of contact they
want with their other parent. The judge will determine support. At
least, that's what would happen around here. You are prepared to pay
child support to an ex you can't stand, for the benefit of children who
refuse to visit you, are nasty to your SO, and let you know on a regular
basis that they hold you in utter contempt, right?
>
> They don't have to love me when they meet me (if that ever hapens). But
they do
> need to be respectful. They also owe it to their father to give me a chance to
> be a part of their lives. I know my boyfriend will be very unhappy without his
> children in his life. I just don't know how to convince them that he needs me
> and them together.
Most teenagers aren't really good at considering what they might 'owe'
anyone else, especially when they feel jerked around. I think that if you
don't lower your expectations a little, you're just setting yourself up to
be hurt. Have you read "The Enlightened Stepmother" by Perdita Norwood?
It has some really good advice about entering a blended family situation
when everyone is older...
>
This isn't an easy road you're taking, I wish you the best.
Sian
TYounger
Okay, first, *you* are acting like a spoiled teenager in
this situation, not anyone else. "I want I want I
want..."
I know how his kids feel. I "discovered" my father had
been having an affiar when I was 13 years old. I didn't
think my mom knew about it. She did. When Dad "has" to
work late, work away from home, etc etc etc all the
time, don't you think people start to wonder where the
hell Dad is? If this has been going on for 9 years, I
guarantee at least Mom knew what was going on.
Now, Dad is gone. Do you know why he is gone? Because
*you* - knowing full well he was a married man with
kids, assisted in the tearing apart of his family. He's
at fault too, but you're no ignorant chickadee. So
let's talk about you from a kid's point of view.
You took Dad away, you were dishonorable and snuck
around. And now you want to be the mother figure in all
the holidays and be one big happy family. Screw you. I
want to be with my mom. My mom did the right thing, she
tried to keep us together. I *hate* my dad right now,
and I *especially* hate YOU. Because I know it's yours
and Dad's fault that my mom and dad aren't together
anymore. And my mom is so hurt. How could you do this
to her? How could you do this to us? And you think you
have the right to demand we spend the holidays with
YOU?? Are you f---ing nuts?
Now, I doubt you'll gain any perspective from this,
because you've displayed a strictly "my mentality is
always the right mentality" already. But kids are
people too, and they are entitled to their feelings.
It's been *years* and I've started to patch up my
relationship with my father, who is still with his
mistress. I do send cards and "household" things over
at Christmas time now. And occasionally I'll talk t her
on the phone for about as long as a "Hello, I'm fine
thanks" conversation. I still do not like the mistress.
She is *still* not welcome in my home. I don't know if
I'll ever get to a point where I'm okay with that.
Luckily, my father's mistress did not make him choose.
Or maybe he just came to an agreement with her. He is
always welcome in my home, he's my father. But he comes
here alone. I do not accept her as part of my life. My
father has learned, very wisely, that he *doesn't* and
*shouldn't* have to choose between us. He just has to
love me and respect my wishes and my feelings, which to
this day, are mine, and are reasonable. That's the only
reason he got to regain any sort of relationship with
me. Because he made the choice to respect me, and not
force anything on me that I was not ready for.
Tamara
> Suzmatz said...
> I understand why you feel the way you do. But what I think needs to be
> understood is that I am his family now. Yes his kids will always be his kids.
> But they will be out on their own in time and I will be the one with him until
> the end.
>
> His wife was so involved in spoiling and over indulging thier children she
> wouldn't have seen it if it bit her in the ass. The kids didn't suspect a thing
> either. As long as dad bought them eveything they wanted they were happy.
>
> Emotional scares are a part of life. My parents split when I was very young. I
> dealt with it. So can his his kids. My children haven't seen their father in
> over 5 years. They have had problems but who is to say that wouldn't have
> happened even if they had seen him?
>
> His children need to accept his choice to be with me. They don't have to fall
> all over me but they need to give me a chance, repspect me, and think of their
> fathers happiness, not just their own.
>
TYounger
> Jennaii, I sure am going to marry him! I have read this news group and I know
> what you mean. Biomoms, as they are called here, are a pain in the ass, and the
> step kids are too!
Some of us love our step-kids no end, and would do
anything to make sure their lives were comfortable,
happy and secure, and we put the children *before* our
own selfish wants.
Some of us even get along with bio-mom. Most of the
ones that do though, had to walk a long hard road to get
things that way, and now we're reaping the benefits of
not being selfish about what *we* want all the time.
Tamara
Kevin
says...
> Yes I chose to wait for my soul mate. But his past is just that his past. His
>
>
Right now you're putting his soul on the rack - I don't think you have a
clue as to the amount of pain that has been and is being created in this
situation. If I were you I would go and get professional help fast.
Kevin
--
Be nice to me. I might be your Secret Snowflake.
Jennaii
Do you really think that these kids are going to buy the story that he's sick?
Thats so lame!
Anyways, I know you have waited 9 years of your life on this miserably
unhappily married man. How did he decide that NOW was a good time to leave his
wife?
Just wondering...
> I have a granddaughter that we were able to take trick or treating
>and his children are really past that age) or going there for a few hours in
>the afternoon.
>
Newsgroups
you some insight.
kitley
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991123232212...@ng-fr1.aol.com...
> (who are over indulged spoiled brats not only in my opinion but in his
families
Sarai
This is what I want to say to you, and I will be very blunt.
Did your lover's children *choose* to be born? No
Did they choose to be born to him? No
Did you choose to be involved with their father? Yes
Did he choose to be involved with you? Yes.
You and your lover made some very, very selfish choices. To ask innocent
children ( i don't care how old they are) to submit to YOUR selfish wants is
despicable. His children did'nt ask to be born into this situation. Do you
expect the entire world to overlook it's own emotional needs to satisfy your
loneliness?
Does he love them? Obviously, or he would'nt have stuck around for 9 years.
Does he have to choose between them and you? He already has dear. He chose
them for nine years.
This is what it sounds like you are saying to his kids:
To hell with you! Your dad loves me! ME! He even loves me more than you!
He never loved your mom! Your mom is a selfish bitch! Ha-ha he's mine now!
We are a family now, and you can either accept it or take off! Your dad's
happiness is more important than yours! Hell, its even more important than
mine thats why i've waited around for 9 years! Please do me a favor and
just go live with your mom so your dad can be where he really wants to be,
with me and MY kids! Just go away!
You seem very obsessed with this man. And you displayed that when you
badgered one poster about her own father's relationship with his mistress,
wanting to know this and that. Im sorry if this seems very cold, but you
have hit a nerve with me. Not only that, but you seem to have some very
serious mental issues about this man. I find that very sad, and if I were
you, I would seek some help. But nonetheless, you are not a step-mother
(yet, at least) and to call yourself one, with all that you have posted,
gives these hardworking stepmom's and stepdad's a very bad name. I used to
be a step-mom, and found that I could'nt deal with it. I left, got some
help, and resolved some issues myself. I, in no way, compared with this
group's patience, or hardwork, and I admire them for accomplishing what I
could not.
heather
Cindy Martin
You robbed these kids of 9 years with their dad. It doesn't matter how
miserable their mother was supposedly making him, for 9 long years, that SOB
chose YOU over THEM! Then, you demand that they respect you. Excuse me,
what planet did you say you were from again?
With your attitude, I wouldn't respect you either. In case you didn't know
it, respect is EARNED, not just given. I do not automatically respect
anyone just because. You better damn well show me you deserve my respect,
then I'll think about it.
Your wonderful boyfriend lied to his kids about being home for Halloween so
he could spend it with you. How sweet. What if his kid's wanted to watch
movies with him, or pass out candy with him, or just spend time with him?
As for his wife making him miserable, let me let you in on a little
secret -- there are two sides to every story and you're only hearing one.
My husband will tell you that I make him miserable too. Yet, he thinks
nothing of taking off whenever he wants and leaving the majority of the
child care to me. Seems fair to him. After all, I'm the one that wanted
the baby. So, I'm already a single parent. I could tell you stories about
how HE'S treated ME that would make your hair stand on end. But, his story
is that I make him miserable. My story is he's a jerk. Who are you going
to believe?
With your attitude, his kids will never respect you. His wife will take him
to court, take every dime he's got and then some (because, you know, she's
entitled to alimony as well as CS and CS for two children is not cheap).
Then, with your blessings, she'll take the kids far, far away to the land of
oz so your dear boyfriend is paying all kinds of money every month for
children he doesn't see. Because, my dear, at their age if they don't want
to catch that plane to go see dear old dad, they aren't going to do it.
In 10 years when dear old hubby (presuming he still marries you with your
attitude) sits down and realizes he married a shrew for a wife and lost his
children, do you think he'll figure it was worth it?
TYounger
suz...@aol.com says...
> The only ones who went through 9 years of hell were me and him She just kept
> her head buried in the sand. But your SO left just as mine sweetheart did. And
> what if he had met you before he had left her? What then? Would you have walked
> away from your soul mate just because he was in a bad marriage?
People that are honest, integritious, and good would tell their wife
"I've met someone else, I want to persue her, and I don't want to be a
part of this marriage anymore"
The difference between your situation and most of the other ones here is
that our husbands/SO's had the integrity to tie up loose ends in one
relationship before starting another. Your SO is not an honorable man
for stringing his wife along. She could have been out rebuilding *her*
life all this time, finding herself a "soulmate" who would be faithful
to, honest with, and caring for her. He left her in a life of lies. He
is the one to blame.
My SO was seperated when he met me. After a month, I told him seperation
wasn't good enough anymore. And he was *legally seperated* from her.
She was seeing other people, as was he. I needed him to tie up *all*
loose ends if we were to continue. He did. We continued, very happily.
He was honest, up front, and integritious about the ordeal. He did *not*
lead his ex-wife on, and put on a false front for the marriage.
If you were a good, honest, integritious person, you should have had the
integrity to tell him that you could and would not date a married man,
period, end of conversation.
> It's my bussiness if she continues to burden my future husband with financial
> demands. He works 6 days a week and is gone for 12-14 hours a day. She had 16
> years of play time with the kids. I don't know any woman who has had it as well
> as she has. It's time for her to carry some of the financial load.
Wrong. It's his business. While he was out keeping up on the workforce,
she was at home raising kids. Do you know how much this world has
changed in 16 years? Even if she has a degree in anything, she will need
to take refresher courses, and probably computer classes to keep up in
today's world. That's more college she'll have to attend if she doesn't
want to make minimum wage. And no one can live on minimum wage. He
created this situation himself, and now he is financially (at the very
least) responsible for it. If you are going to begrudge her and the
children the funds they need to get their lives together, the lives that
you equally assisted in shattering, then maybe you need to take Kevin's
advice, and get some professional help to help you understand the depth
and complexity of exactly what you've done here.
Yeah, lots of families go through divorce. But kids and spouses aren't
statistics. They haven't been through this 3 million times. This is the
first time, and it is hard on them. They have been living 9 years in a
web of deceit, and are suddenly being thrust, quite unwillingly, in a
very harsh and horrible light. The more I think about it, the more I
think maybe you should see a therapist to examine why exactly you have so
little regards for the lives you've shattered, and why you're so numb to
all of the human feeling that is going on in this situation. You are
like a brick wall, cold, uncaring, and unknowledgeable about the world
around you.
Tamara
Kallynn1
>ex nor his children. That family is gone. Our new family will be open for his
>children to be a part of. If they so choose. As for his wife no way, no how,
>never!
>
>Happy Thanksgiving to you too!
>
>SuzieQ
>
I have a funny feeling that your about to drive down a long, hard bumpy road.
Kallynn
Suzmatz
that thier father is happier with me? I would think if they did they would be
able to better deal with the way their lives are going to be going forward. I
wish them no harm. But if my children were able to get through their father
leaving (and no he did not leave for another woman) I don't see why his
children shouldn't.
Right now it seems that his well being is what I need to be concerned with. He
is hurting so much over his kids. I'm not asking for him to ignore them or not
see them. I just want to be able to have a normal life with him. The kind we
have not been able to have for so many years. I know it will take his children
awhile to get used to all of this. As I said earlier it isn't even the spliting
of the day that I really resented it was the whole "happy family going to the
movies" situation that I feel his wife was behind.
Suzmatz
one you wrote about.
He HAS left his wife. We have been living together since the end of summer. I
too got the excuses for years. But in the end he did leave her and is with me.
But what you describe is why I seem so angry at the suggestion that he spends
the whole day with them. I did spend every holiday without him for 9 LONG
YEARS. I just would like to try to make up for that now. Is that so awful of
me?
As far as him cheating on me. I doubt it. I know what he needs and wants and
can fulfill his wants and needs. But most of all I am his best friend.
Suzmatz
Thanks
SuzieQ
Suzmatz
I didn't rob them of anything. If he had wanted to be with them he would have.
Why do I become the bad guy all of a sudden? If it wouldn't have been me it
would have been someone else.
As far as respect is concerned. I taught my children to respect their elders. I
guess others don't.
Yes he lied to them on Halloween. He was just trying to protect them from the
truth. He felt it was best for them not to know he would rather have been with
us than them. Was that really so bad? I told him he should tell them the truth.
He didn't want to. It was his call, not mine. I feel the sooner they understand
their dad is also a part of another family the sooner they'll be able to accept
it.
Yes, his wife was horrible to him. It just wasn't him that had told me all
about her. His mother, sister, brother, etc. all felt all she cared about was
the kids. It is their opinon and mine too that that is all she cared about so
that is what she is ending up with.
Yes I'm sure this divorce will cost him a lot. But there are bussiness we have
together that she will not be able to touch because they are in my name and she
doesn't even know they exist. As far as alimony is concerned. I told him to
tell her to get back into the work force. She was lucky to have had the past 16
years at home raising her kids. I never had that luxory. She just turned 50.
She has plenty of working years left in her. CS for kids here is 25% of his
earnings. So for another 3 years we can live with that. She is pretty lucky
that he is willing to give it to her. My ex rarely paid CS.
As far as his feeling I was worth it all. You bet he does. I have been patient
with him. His family has been waiting for him to leave his wife. Everyone is
thrilled he finally made the right choice. The only ones who can't deal with it
are his wife and kids. That's 3 that are unhappy and an entire family that are
happy.
Melissa J. Ryan
>have.
Which only says that you Mr. Wonderful may not be so wonderful after all.
>Why do I become the bad guy all of a sudden? If it wouldn't have been me it
>would have been someone else.
Which suggests that you are not so special in his life.
>As far as respect is concerned. I taught my children to respect their elders.
>I
>guess others don't.
>
Yeah they should respect two people who ignored a man's marital vows for NINE
YEARS. Respect is not a given babe. It's earned.
>Yes he lied to them on Halloween. He was just trying to protect them from the
>truth. He felt it was best for them not to know he would rather have been
>with
>us than them. Was that really so bad?
Well the lie is pretty bad but the fact that he did not want to be with his
children on Halloween is worse.>Yes, his wife was horrible to him. It just
wasn't him that had told me all
>about her. His mother, sister, brother, etc. all felt all she cared about was
>the kids. It is their opinon and mine too that that is all she cared about so
>that is what she is ending up with.
My SO had an obsessive BM who only cared for her child and not her marraige.
He left without putting another woman (and her children) through hell for NINE
YEARS.
> As far as alimony is concerned. I told him to
>tell her to get back into the work force.
What business of yours is it whether she works or not? If the court decides
that your new squeeze will have to pay alimony he'll have to pay it.
You know what your man sounds like real scum but that's Ok because from what
you say so do you. You two deserve each other. What makes me sick is that
there are children involved who have no say in all this.
::Sigh::
Melissa
Suzmatz
I know it is me they don't want to spend time with. I'm not stupid. I know they
are hurt. But divorce happens to millions of families. His children just think
it shouldn't happen to them. But it is so they really need to accept it.
As far as what I thought would happen this year. I thought he would get the
kids half of the day and she would get them half of the day. On his half he
would bring them to our home or we could take them to his mothers. But they
won't do either. So they'll just have to settle for seeing their father for a
few hours instead of the entire day. I'm compromising here. I am letting him
spend half the day over there. It just seems if the children would accept their
dad's need for happiness elsewhere they could have him the entire day.
He knows she is taking the kids and moving. I told him to try to stop her from
taking the kids. He doesn't know I have changed my attitude about it though. He
really doesn't need to know that. What he needs to know is that I care about
him more than anything else in the world. At this point he will probably be
happier without all this turmoil. Yes it will hurt for a while. But in the long
run he will be happier. I'll be there to support him. His kids will grow up and
have their own lives. If they want to see him I'll never try to stop them, even
if it excludes me. But you never know. If they continue to exclude me he may
not have as much time for them as he would if they would accept his new life.
When I said they can start a new life. What I meant was a new life with their
mother and anyone that might want her.
I know what he and his family have told me. She was a bitch to him. She cared
nothing about his happiness. She dressed the way she liked, cooked the foods
the kids liked, insisted on expensive vacations that the kids wanted to go on,
etc. His entire family (with a few misguided exceptions) HATE her and have
hated her for as long as I have known him. How could so many people be wrong?
Yes, he stayed for the kids. I tried to tell him it would be harder on them the
older they got. He wouldn't listen to me. So now they are older and they may
not want to see him when he is with me. This all could have been avoided if he
would have left years ago when we fell in love.
I know they don't hate their mother. All they see is their father doing the bad
things. I encouraged him to tell them how he felt and how he was ignored. He
doesn't feel the time is right. I think when they are adults he will tell them
and they will understand.
His children will always be his children, yes. Is it really that much to ask
for them to understand the same? He didn't leave them he left their mother. And
yes, I agree the whole movie thing was her idea not the kids.
Ok we did talk about this tonight. He called her and told her he will be over
there around noon. He told her he could stay until 5:30 or 6:00. But he needs
to spend time with his mother and others too. The going to the movies is off.
The wife said she understood but he'll have to tell the children when he gets
there. He told her he needs her to support his decision and help him make the
children understand. I have no problem with this at all. He'll get to his mom's
early enough to spend the night with me and his family. It's just too bad his
children won't be there to enjoy it all.
Yes I agree. This year is gone. But I am alright with what has been decided.
Now when Christmas rolls around his children will have to decide if they want
to see him on the eve or the day. Of course they could see him the entire time,
if they were accepting of his choice, but I know that is doubtful.
I know they need space. They have been given space since he moved in with me.
How long do you think it will take for them to understand?
Now hold on. I have put everything including MY OWN CHILDREN on the back burner
for him. I want him to be happy. That is why I have done so much for him and
waited for so many years. I guess I expected his children to be more like his
nephew's. His nephew also left his wife to be with his true love. His children
spend every other weekend with them. They split the holidays between their
mother and their dad WITH his girlfriend. His kids are 8 and 10. Maybe it's the
age differance.
Suzmatz
and theirs. Yes, the teen years are not easy. I tired to tell him to leave
years ago. He felt it was better to wait. Look where not listening to me and
his family got him.
I beg your pardon. I did not steal their father. He entered into our
realtionship on his own free will.
I agree his new life should include his children. I am ready to accept and love
them. It is the children that can't accept their fathers choice.
I do blame them for making their father's life more difficult than it should
be. We are not the first couple to be in this situation. Nor will we be the
last. I just hope other men who move on do so with out so many problems from
their children.
You know the pain their mother is in she is responsible for, not me not him. If
she would have been a good wife he and I would never have gotten together.
Commitment? You say he has had no commitment? He stuck around for 9 YEARS.
Miserable. Knowing he had me and a wonderful life waiting for him.
My children really don't care if they see their father. He wasn't around much
when they were babies and left when they were still very young. My boyfrineds
children have been lucky he has stayed as long as he has. They really ought to
talk to my kids, maybe then they'd understand what a wonderful man their dad
is.
Yes what he wants to do IS an indication of what the future will be. He is
spending part of the day with them and part with me and his family. I can
handle that. I doubt they will be able to though.
The movies thing is off. He would love to take just the kids out. But they
won't ever go without their mother. When he asked them why they tell him they
don't want mom to be left alone. So every time he visits them it's a visit for
his wife to. I think she is the main cause of all of this. She won't let go.
She won't help the children understand. Because she doesn't want to let go.
Personaly I think she is pretty pathetic. She made him miserable for years and
when he finds someone who does care about him she can't accept it.
Maybe my expectations for his children are too high. At 15 and 16 my children
were much more mature. They had not be pampered or codeled. Maybe his children
will grow up now that they have to face things they don't like or can't
manipulate thier father to do.
Suzmatz
I doubt he could have saved his marriage. He probably would have committed
suicide (yes he did tell me he was thinking about it) if I had not come along
to save him. His family calls me his guardian angel.
You are so right! I tried to tell him that the children would be lured into a
false sense of security. He just couldn't leave them when they were so young.
No his wife had no idea we were a couple. Or so she says. I think if she would
have bothered to pay any attention to him she would have seen what was going
on.
Wait a minute I am not selfish. I gave up 9 years of our happiness for his
children. I would never want his children out of his life. His wife, on the
other hand, could drop dead tomorrow and I wouldn't shed a tear.
I agree it is easier for them to blame me than to blame the real cause of their
father leaving. That being their mother.
Being a step parent is something I haven't been to clear about. I haven't been
one in the past. It doesn't look like his children will give me much of a
chance to find out either.
Yes he lied to his children. But it was to protect them from the truth. You see
he excepts my children and grandchild like they were his own. I thank God he
has my children's love and support.
I didn't mean to upset you or anyone else. But it looks like I have. I was just
being honest and trying to learn. Yes I came off as being bull headed. I am
learning by what you all have written. And yes, I have no problem with him
spending a part of the holidays with his children. I just wish he could spend
them with us all together.
Suzmatz
learning.
SuzieQ
Suzmatz
Both? How would that help?
SuzyQ
Suzmatz
really is between him and them. I just hate to see him hurt by his own
children.
CS will be paid by him not me.
I haven't read "The Enlightened Stepmother" but I will be sure to now!
Thanks for you wishes for the best.I really appreciate your advice.
SuzyQ
Suzmatz
They bought it on Halloween. I told him to be honest of our plans but he
wouldn't.
As to why he left now. We had decided once his youngest started high school it
would be the right time. Please keep in mind I had wanted him to leave many
years ago. He had second thoughts right before he left. I told him our
agreement was now. If he didn't leave I would be gone. He left and I am still
here were I should be, with him. I bought a home the next town over from where
his children live several years ago in antcipation of his leaving. But now that
she is talking about moving away I guess it wasn't necessary for me to do so.
See, I told you I wanted him to see his kids! I even bought a home close enough
so he wouldn't have to travel far to see them. I am really a caring person. I
care about him more than anything in the world.
lilblakdog
>What he needs to know is that I care about
>him more than anything else in the world. At this point he will probably be
>happier without all this turmoil. Yes it will hurt for a while. But in the
long
>run he will be happier. I'll be there to support him. His kids will grow up
and
>have their own lives.
It's like turning to look at a bad accident...I just can't keep from reading
this thread. And I had my say and have been trying to stay out of it now,
but I just can't help myself.
Truthfully, I never flame. I don't like it; I don't think it's pleasant. I
use the Thumper rule. But this whole attitude makes me sick to my stomach.
We come here because we're looking for a way to be better stepparents to our
children. You come here to figure out a way to make your BF understand that
they shouldn't be a part of his life if they can't respect you. I'm not
entirely sure what you were hoping to achieve by coming here. You think
they should respect you and give you a chance to be a part of their lives,
but you're running a parallel campaign to give them cause to hate and resent
you for as long as their father is with you. And you insist that you're the
great love of his life and that that will be forever, but he hasn't even
filed for divorce and it's nearly Christmas! If he's been chomping at the
bit for the past nine years, as you apparently have, he'd have filed those
papers the day he was out. Take it from someone who's really out.
You keep insisting the way *you* will have it--that *you* are his future and
*they* can move on with their lives; that *you* won't stand in the way of
his having a relationship with them--and think that you're doing it for your
BF's happiness. And you know that he's miserable and can't see that you're
not helping the situation in the slightest. Your attitude is that it
doesn't matter if he loses his children because he has you. I'm sorry, but
that's cold comfort. How would you feel if your children didn't like him
and he asked you to cut them loose? Would you? And don't say that it
doesn't matter because they like him or you raised them to.... That's not
the point. The point is, would you give up your children for him? And
never look back? It saddens me that you can't see how controlling you're
coming across.
I agree with the others that you may need a touch of counselling. For
whatever reason, for nine years you didn't think you were worth better than
a married man who lied to his wife and children and betrayed his marriage
vows. I don't care *what* kind of a woman she was--she could have fucked
around and not spoken to him since 1973--but you take care of your own shit
first and *then* you get to fuck around. Otherwise, you're just a slug.
Once is *maybe* a mistake...nine years of it is...well, I can't actually
think of a word bad enough to describe what nine years of it is.
But okay, you've waited that through and now you've exploded in a mass of
what *you* want and what *you* should be entitled to. But, sweetheart, it
doesn't work that way. When it comes right down to it, the only thing that
you have absolute control over is whether you stay or leave. It is not your
right to interfere in his relationship with his children--that's *not* your
business. You can think it is, but every step-parent here will tell you
that when the shit really comes down, it isn't your business. You can have
input; you can voice an opinion. But you can't control his relationship
with them without taking a fall for it somewhere. Biomom *will* be a part
of your lives until the children are adults. Her name *will* show up on the
check. And if she's 50 years old and hasn't worked in at least sixteen
years, I think you can be fairly certain that there will be a period of
alimony, and you won't be able to control that either. She *will* call in
the case of emergency. He *will* have decisions to make with her that
govern their children. You don't get to decide what role she'll play; that
role was decided when he married her and gave her children. You can hate
her and make her life miserable, but you won't be erasing her from the
picture any time soon. She could live on the other side of the planet and
she'd *still* be the mother and caretaker of his children and *still*
involved in your life.
All of this can only lead to resentment and hatred, no matter how much you
may think that he loves you. Believe me, you can come to hate the person
you love.
You've gone into great detail about how terrible she was to him, but
honestly I don't see that. There's nothing wrong with dressing how we like
and I think we all generally cook foods that the kids like...parents make
these tiny sacrifices for their kids every day. Vacations are generally
planned around the kids--romantic getaways for two are few and far between
when you choose to have a child. And if they were too expensive, he could
say no. He worked--he brought home the money. He obviously had a place to
go, but he didn't *want* to. I have to wonder what kind of a man stays with
a wife he says he hates, screws around on her and then leaves her, all on
the excuse that she put the children first. If those things were so
horrible for him, he sounds as self-involved as you. Perhaps the kids would
be better off without both of you in their lives. The more you say the more
it sounds like *neither* of you really care about much more than looking
like the bad guy. They're children; they deserve better than that. He owes
*them*...they owe him nothing. They certainly don't sound like people who
deserved to have their father cheat and lie to them for nine years.
I'm sorry, hon, but you don't sound any better to me than his ex.
Different, maybe, but certainly no better.
lil
---
"I'm calm; I'm just opinionated." -- Karen West
Suzmatz
I look forward to you responce!
I am not making him chose between me and his children. I'm sorry if it sounded
like I was. I was pretty upset about the whole happy family baloney. But now
that is a moot issue.
I do feel for his kids but they are making this so much more difficult than it
has to be.
As for his wife. I have no empathy for her. She gets what she deserves. She
left him alone for years. Now he will leave he alone for eternity.
I know he is a prize! I also know his children threatened to never see him
again when he first told then he was leaving. But he left anyway. He couldn't
stay there any longer. He was dieing inside with out me. Of course his children
still see him. So now he has me full time and his kids when he can see them. I
just wish they could be more accepting, maybe in time. It would be perfect if
he and I and our children could be one family. I can dream can't I!
Suzmatz
EVERY SUNDAY!
I guess you are right to a degree. I still am a little scared that he might
leave and go back to them. I know she would take him back in a minute. But I do
know he loves me in a way he never loved his wife. But what concerns me even
more is that his children are getting the notion that their family is the way
it used to be. Don't you think it is wrong to encourage their denial of the
truth?
SuzyQ
Suzmatz
in the scheme of things she is the third wheel.
SuzyQ
lilblakdog
>Commitment? You say he has had no commitment? He stuck around for 9 YEARS.
>Miserable. Knowing he had me and a wonderful life waiting for him.
Oh please, Suzie, that's not commitment. He was paying them lip service.
He was about as around as a spirit in the house...he spent free time with
you. Commitment is "I give you my life and accept yours". He couldn't and
didn't do that...he'd given it to you instead.
lil
Suzmatz
love be so torn up inside. I know he wants to spend his time with me and his
children. I just don't know how it will ever be possible. I'm making an effort
to not come off as sounding so selfish.
Thanks for the advice
SuzyQ
Suzmatz
bumps!
SuzyQ
Geri and Brian
>more is that his children are getting the notion that their family is the
>way
>it used to be. Don't you think it is wrong to encourage their denial of the
>truth?
That part I agree with. If the BM is out of the picture, I would think your SO
should not re-create the old family scenario, even for holidays. I think it
sends confusing messages to the children, and to BM if she is the clingy type.
Probably the best plan is to split his time for the day. If the kids don't
want the time they spend with their dad to include you, that is ok for now -
perhaps just they and dad could go do something. I guess if I were the dad, I
would not go for the children setting down an ultimatum that they will only see
him if he sees their mom, too.
It seems there ought to be a middle ground here.
Geri
~~~~~~~~~~
"I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."
~~~~~~~~~~
To e-mail us, dump the litterbox. :-)
Suzmatz
in misery? Would you have done that?
Very funny. I am special to him. He wouldn't have left his wife and children
for me if I wasn't.
I see your point with regards to respect. Yes I agree they need time to
understand.
Hey, it's not like I forced him to not go on Halloween. He knew my two year old
grand child would be here. His kids are 15 and 16 remember? They hardly need
daddy to take them door to door do they?
The only ones who went through 9 years of hell were me and him She just kept
her head buried in the sand. But your SO left just as mine sweetheart did. And
what if he had met you before he had left her? What then? Would you have walked
away from your soul mate just because he was in a bad marriage?
It's my bussiness if she continues to burden my future husband with financial
demands. He works 6 days a week and is gone for 12-14 hours a day. She had 16
years of play time with the kids. I don't know any woman who has had it as well
as she has. It's time for her to carry some of the financial load.
Well aren't you the nice person! We are scum? Why because he loves his kids
enough to stay with them until he felt they were old enough to accept? Because
I want his children to face the reality of their parents divorce and his soon
to be new wife?
What makes me sick is people who haven't walked in our shoes who call us names
and think they are better because they met the love of their life after they
left a bad marraige not before.
Geri and Brian
>names
>and think they are better because they met the love of their life after they
>left a bad marraige not before.
>
First I am going to give you a little background, then a couple of suggestions.
I met my husband while he was still living in the same residence as my SD's
mom. He had already told her he didn't love her, would never ever marry her
and was moving out. (The only reason he stayed the 3 1/2 years he did was to
keep his child safe from a potentially abusive mother who paid little attention
to her child. One day he came home from work and found an incident of gross
neglect going on, realized that even if he stayed, he could not protect her
24/7, and decided to find some happiness for himself and get out.) He never
wanted children, BTW , especially with BM, but her birth control pills which
were effective for 12 years, suddenly, magically failed right at the time he
was fixing to break up with her.
Anyway, my husband and I met on the internet right about the time he decided to
move out. I will leave out the details of our battle with BM during that time,
and her psycho-tactics to a few months later - we married. We have now been
married over 14 months, and we are extremely happy. In order to do this, I had
to relocate half-way across the country.
Now, back to your story v. mine. When I was first going to be a stepmom, I
felt the way you do, to an extent. I was kind of (unrealistically) hoping we
could get custody of my husband's daughter and buzz back to the civilized world
of the Midwest and forget about his old life with nutty BM/or if we didn't get
custody, buzz out of here and forget about BM except for sending her checks.
The thing is, no matter how much you would like to do something like that, for
one thing, the courts don't see it that as a good idea, and for another thing,
any dad that sacrifices years of his own happiness for his kid(s) is probably
going to do whatever is necessary to keep a pretty big chunk of contact with
them. If you want to stay with a SO who is a dad like that, you have to come
to terms with this.
So, you should think about if you can handle that, and if you love your SO
enough to want to. That means some sacrifices on your part. For me that meant
leaving behind everything I know and love for an extremely bizarre part of the
country and having to put up dealing with a BM who probably has at least one
personality disorder. If you want to be married to this man, this means
putting aside what you want, and looking to what is best for your
relationship... and what is best for your relationship with your SO includes
what is best for his children.
I was fortunate, because my SD was only three when we got together. We got 50%
custody, so I have had the chance to get really tight with my SD and love her
as if she were my own child. (We are still in an ugly, very high stress court
fight, BTW.) With older children like in your situation, you may want to just
step back and give their dad his time with them, when it is his turn to see
them.
One thing that is not a good idea is to set up ultimatums on anyone. It is
bound to backfire on you. You might consider a little counseling to help you
and your SO get through this stressful period in your lives. This does not
mean you are crazy and having your head shrunk. We have a psychologist we use,
who we think is great, who works with us on coping and problem solving skills
for dealing with the stress of a histrionic and irrational BM that we have to
co-parent with. Sometimes it is helpful to have a neutral third party like
this help you to deal with your frustrations and concerns.
Anyway, good luck.
Suzmatz
parent. Heck I just want the opportunity to try to be one!
From reading what others have written I now know I should not expect them to
respect me untill I earn it. I can't say I agree with it, but I'll certainly
accept it.
I know . I thought he would file for divorce right away too. She told him she
would file, but no papers have arrived yet. I think he hasn't filled yet as he
wants to give the children some time to adjust to the idea of him not living
there before the legal things start. I know he isn't asking for joint physical
custody. But the financial aspects of the divorce will be complicated. She
expects him to finance her stay at home status. He shouldn't have to do that.
She had a great career before she had the kids. Just because he wanted her to
stay home and raise the kids doesn't mean it is going to stay that way. The
circumstances have changed. No man should be required to pay his ex wife to not
work. She worked before and she will have to work again. So the kids need
sometime to adjust to their father being gone before their mother has to be
away from home 40 hours or more a week to support herself. You see he pays for
every bill and thing they want and need. I pay for things for him so he doesn't
go without. Heck I have paid for things for his children over the years and
they have no idea I have.I even paid for the cattering for their childs 8th
grade graduation party! See I am a good person!
It may be cold comfort but it may be the way it ends up. I can't control how
his kids react to us. I can't control what he does in response to their
actions. I will try to be more understanding of his children and their
feelings, though.
You asked if I would have given up my children for him. I don't know how to
answer that. One part of me says yes and another says no. If my children had a
father who I could have trusted to take proper care of them then perhaps I
would have given him custody. But seeing that their father wasn't even around
then I would have to say no I wouldn't have.
For nine years I knew I was good enough for him and he for me. For many years
his wife wasn't good enough for him and he found me.
Yes wouldn't it be nice if everyone could meet the love of their life when they
are unattached. Sorry it doesn't always happen that way.
If there is a slug in this situation it is his wife! She couldn't see fit to
be anymore than a mother. A man needs to be catered to. If a woman doesn't take
care of her man she will loose him. Oh and by the way the correct word to
describe our 9 year realtionship is LOVE.
It is my bussiness when my man is unhappy. But I understand what you mean.
I know I can't make her not be the children's mother. I just want her to let go
of my future husband. Is that too much to ask? I doubt most of the problems
would exist if she would just get a life of her own.
The reasons he left are deeper than just putting the kids first. She paid no
attention to him. She didn't get along with his family, they could see she
wasn't taking proper care of him and they lost all respect for her. He comes
from a very close family. She doesn't. She never really fit in with them. I do.
In his family and in many others if you aren't accepted your marriage doesn't
stand a chance. Her spending habits were obscene. Although I have to admitt she
didn't spend on herself, but on her kids and their home. He couldn't say no to
her before. He is learning how to now with my guidance. His children don't need
$60 designer jeans anymore when Target has jeans for $20.
No we don't care about looking like the bad guy. We care about each other. If
he is cut I bleed and visa versa.
Kids deserve two parents. It is up to them if they want both of them. I
consider myself a bonus, if they decide to accept! In the mean time I will not
interfere with the decisions he makes with his children. But if my boyfriend
asks or my opinion I will give it to him. You see he is a real softy when it
comes to his kids and I am more of the tough love type. I think we can really
balance each other out if his kids ever give us the chance to!
Kevin
Yes that's what I mean - counselling or psychotherapy - just a safe place
to explore your thoughts and feelings around this. I've been reading what
you write and I get a clear sense that you do wish to understand. I am
glad about that. I am guessing that there is a level of pain in your
situation that you are not yet aware of. I get that sense and it seems
also that most if not all of the other responders are saying much the
same thing. It's not to do with whether or not BM is one way or another,
or BM's and BF's children are one way or another . . . it's to do with
the amount of time your relationship continued without the knowledge of
BM and the children. Right now the children are aware that their
relationship with their father has been full of deception for nine years.
That length of time means an awful lot, and I wouldn't be surprised if
for them the repercussions of this last for decades, if not their whole
lives. I'm not exaggerating, although I'm guessing you might think this
inexplicable, as I gather you think they ought to be over it by
Christmas... I was thinking that a qualified professional will be able to
help to unravel the situation. More on this below.
You talk of the children's feelings and actions in the following way -
'they should' 'they need to' etc. For instance you think 'they should'
move on... or 'they need to learn to' look after their father's
feelings.......Quote: "I just hate to see him hurt by his own
children." <as an aside: this is very upside-down. The fact that he is
hurting is just consequences of his actions. I'm guessing that they are
feeling torn in an area that you don't yet comprehend - they have ties
of trust with the BM you think is so terrible - they are making choices
that take their feelings for her into account as well. His pain is not
their responsibility.>
What I'm getting at here is that you are suggesting that they stop being
in pain because you think 'they should' - that it would be best for all.
I'm guessing this is what *you* do or have done in painful situations.
The trouble is that just to stop being in pain, does not make it go away.
You go numb and unconscious inside and then you repeat it unknowingly in
another situation . . relationships, work or whatever. I'm guessing
you've repeated this one. Golly, that nine years.
Your subject header says it all: HELP!!!!!!
I would really hope that you go to see someone. BF could benefit from it
too, but it's you who posted.
Kevin
In article <19991125025145...@ng-cm1.aol.com>, Suzmatz
says...
> Kevin, what do mean professional help? A shrink? For who? Me or my boyfriend?
> Both? How would that help?
>
> SuzyQ
>
>
>
--
Be nice to me. I might be your Secret Snowflake.
Suzmatz
I was hoping for a bit more understanding than I have recieved. I thought this
group would have a lot more women in or had been in my situation.
I will continue to read and write here, if that's ok with everyone else.
I have learned some things already. When he goes to see his children tomorrow
for those 6 hours I will be supportive when he leaves and when he returns. I
will not press for him to force them to see me (not that I ever have). I will
try to see things through their eyes.
You or others may not agree with what we have done, but it is a done deal.
SuzieQ
Yvette Campbell
Suzmatz wrote:
>I appreciate your kind words and understanding. However I am not marrying
his
>ex nor his children. That family is gone. Our new family will be open for
his
>children to be a part of. If they so choose. As for his wife no way, no
how,
>never!
B-z-z-z-z-z-t-t-t!!!! Wrong!
Please - wake up NOW and smell the coffee! Make no mistake - you are
marrying HIM, his EX AND THE KIDS...period. I promise you one thing...your
best-laid plans are going to crash and burn.
You need to realise that YOU are the new kid on the block. YOU are the
incoming family member - the rest of them are established very nicely now,
thanks very much, and that marriage licence in your hand is not going to
change reality or the way that the ex and kids interact with you one bit...
YOU will need to work damn hard - now and always - to build a new family
that includes you, and in the meantime, you will have to pray that the
current family (ALL of its members) accepts you into its dynamic. You are
going to get hurt. You are going to be used up and not considered. You
will have to facilitate a relationship between your DH's kids and their
mother now, and suck up the unfairness of it all. Unfortunately, this is a
lot of what being a step parent is all about. Not just the romance and the
ideal of you, DH and the kids - and no ex. It just ain't gonna happen.
Sorry to be blunt, but you are dreaming cartwheels. I would suggest a very
long engagement. And that you start trying to accept BM's role in her kids
lives. She's always going to be there.
I really wish you all the best, though. Good luck.
Yvette
Sian Lee Reid
(Suzmatz) wrote:
But the financial aspects of the divorce will be complicated. She
> expects him to finance her stay at home status. He shouldn't have to do that.
> She had a great career before she had the kids. Just because he wanted her to
> stay home and raise the kids doesn't mean it is going to stay that way. The
> circumstances have changed. No man should be required to pay his ex wife
to not
> work. She worked before and she will have to work again. So the kids need
> sometime to adjust to their father being gone before their mother has to be
> away from home 40 hours or more a week to support herself.
Kim (Ikuo) gives this reality check much better than I do, but I'll give
it my best shot.
Mom had a well-paying job with good career prospects. Mom and Dad had
kids. Mom and Dad decided Mom should stay home with the kids. Mom gives
up her well-paying job and the career prospects that go with it to stay
home and raise her children for 16 years.
Dad knows that the kids are taken care of. Dad can now put in longer
hours, go on trips, work at home, all of the things that will contribute
to *his* career advancement, *because* Mom is at home holding down the
domestic fort. She is enabling his success.
In the meantime, Mom's education becomes outdated, her workforce skills
become obsolete, and she has a 16 year hole on her resume. Should she be
expected to support herself? No. She *voluntarily* gave up that
opportunity to facilitate her husband's career by staying home, caring for
their children, and providing domestic support.
You can be sure that the courts will recognize this. Even were she to
return to work now, she would not be anywhere near the salary she would
currently be earning had she never left the *paid* workforce. Nor will
she have accumulated the same kind of retirement benefits. The court will
likely reason that since your SO's success is predicated on *her* unpaid
labour, as well as his paid labour, she should be entitled to share in the
long term benefits of that success. That translates into alimony. Given
her age, probably long term alimony. And Kim would be able to tell you,
alimony is not cheap.
If your SO's income drops suddenly because he is electing to devote his
time to your mutual businesses, and 'hide' income that way, the courts
will use an 'inferred income' based on what he was earning before, because
that is clearly what he is capable of earning, and a former wife and
children should not be harmed by the voluntary actions of a supporting
party. Anne Robotti would be able to fill you in on that one.
So no, you will not be paying alimony, but if half of your SOs assets are
forfeit when he divorces, and half or more of his paycheque goes to
alimony and child support, you are bound to feel a financial squeeze that
wasn't there before. You need to expect it, budget it out, and figure out
if you can live with it. That's just smart planning and protecting
*yourself*.
Kim, can you give a better version of this...?
Sian
Donna
I am going to jump in here, even though you are responding to Anne.
First off, given the roasting that you've gotten in some posts, I wanted to
commend you for keeping your cool (well, mostly. <grin>) I think that you
don't yet appreciate the perspectives that people are trying to share with
you, but I do sense that you are at least considering the issues that others
here have outlined.
It's a rare and wise person who can face massive disagreement and say "I
don't think you all are right, but I'm considering your position anyway."
>I know it is me they don't want to spend time with. I'm not stupid. I know
they
>are hurt. But divorce happens to millions of families. His children just
think
>it shouldn't happen to them. But it is so they really need to accept it.
Yes, accepting things is always the best way to go. You can understand that
this doesn't happen overnight, however, right? Particularly not with kids?
Most especially not with *adolescent* kids? They will accept their
father's new relationship, Susie, but it may take a decade. Expecting it to
happen overnight isn't reasonable, or rational, and you need to accept that,
just as they need to accept your existance.
>As far as what I thought would happen this year. I thought he would get
the
>kids half of the day and she would get them half of the day. On his half he
>would bring them to our home or we could take them to his mothers. But they
>won't do either. So they'll just have to settle for seeing their father for
a
>few hours instead of the entire day. I'm compromising here.
Good for you.
> I am letting him
>spend half the day over there.
Eek! "Letting him"???? Letting? Does he have to get a hall pass from
you to use the bathroom, as well? He's in charge of his life, Susie.
> It just seems if the children would accept their
>dad's need for happiness elsewhere they could have him the entire day.
They might. Eventually. But you are not being reasonable or sensitive to
be impatient that they haven't done so immediately. This will not happen
soon. Accept that.
>He knows she is taking the kids and moving. I told him to try to stop her
from
>taking the kids. He doesn't know I have changed my attitude about it
though. He
>really doesn't need to know that. What he needs to know is that I care
about
>him more than anything else in the world. At this point he will probably be
>happier without all this turmoil. Yes it will hurt for a while. But in the
long
>run he will be happier. I'll be there to support him.
Susie, you need to back the heck out of your sweetheart's relationship
problems to the extent that you can. You paint your husband as a completely
ineffectual man who takes orders from women -- first his wife, now you. Is
this man completely incapable of expressing a decision, or does he usually
simply obey? If he is the way you portray him, why in god's name do you
want him?
His kids will grow up and
>have their own lives. If they want to see him I'll never try to stop them,
even
>if it excludes me.
Good for you.
But you never know. If they continue to exclude me he may
>not have as much time for them as he would if they would accept his new
life.
This sounds like a threat. Did you mean it to be so? Does your making
threats about whether he may see his kids or not add or diminish your
sweetheart;s happiness, do you think?
Your mindset, or at least the way you portray yourself here, is that of a
lioness defending her kill from hyenas who would steal it. It's not that of
a person in the middle of a complex problem, which impacts others. Are you
aware of this?
>When I said they can start a new life. What I meant was a new life with
their
>mother and anyone that might want her.
>
>I know what he and his family have told me.
Surely you know that these are not unbiased people, right? Right? Is it
possible that you might realize that emotional relationships are complicated
things, and it's the rare case where a poor long-suffering spouse is driven
off by an utter shrew. Often relationships end because *two* people cannot
meet *each other's* needs.
>His children will always be his children, yes. Is it really that much to
ask
>for them to understand the same? He didn't leave them he left their mother.
This is the smartest, kindest thing you have written yet. The way the kids
will understand this, what you want them to understand, is if you back off
and let him show them by his actions that he is not a weak-willed adulterer
who couldn't figure out which master to obey, but a decent, imperfect man
who had a tough decision to make. He left their mother, he didn't leave
them. Do you understand what I am getting at, here? It's actions, not
words, that will convince the kids. Action, and time. You really need to
accept that feelings are not governed by logic, and particularly not those
of adolescents. Time and experience. Time and experience. Show them,
Susie, don't tell them.
>I know they need space. They have been given space since he moved in with
me.
>How long do you think it will take for them to understand?
Space doesn't mean physical space. It's a metaphor for what I speak of in
the above paragraph. They need emotional "room", without pressures, to come
to terms with a terrible situation. They badly need this space. Please
give it to them.
Donna
Someone
teenagers. They know what's going on without anyone having to tell or show
them anything more than what has happened already.
Geri, in your case, I could see how if it were your SD she could get the
wrong impression from the family being together for holidays, or whatever.
She is still young and understanding these circumstances is especially
confusing the younger the child.
However, when this happened to my parents, I was around 14. And to this
day I have very good memories about the Christmas we all spent together
after my parents split. It wasn't happy because I thought they would get
back together. I actually was glad it happened on some level, because they
were so unhappy together. It was just nice to see two people who do
something together for their children. It was a wonderful experience.
Geri and Brian <gple...@aol.comlitter> wrote in article
<19991125040237...@ng-fy1.aol.com>...
: >But what concerns me even
: >more is that his children are getting the notion that their family is
the
: >way
: >it used to be. Don't you think it is wrong to encourage their denial of
the
: >truth?
:
: That part I agree with. If the BM is out of the picture, I would think
your SO
: should not re-create the old family scenario, even for holidays. I think
it
: sends confusing messages to the children, and to BM if she is the clingy
type.
: Probably the best plan is to split his time for the day. If the kids
don't
: want the time they spend with their dad to include you, that is ok for
now -
: perhaps just they and dad could go do something. I guess if I were the
dad, I
: would not go for the children setting down an ultimatum that they will
only see
: him if he sees their mom, too.
:
: It seems there ought to be a middle ground here.
:
: Geri
:
Jennaii
those holidays in jail he'll be paying it.
>She is pretty lucky
>that he is willing to give it to her. My ex rarely paid CS.
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Anne Robotti
you've learned so far. Because, really, it seems like you're just
digging in and defending your position and your actions.
Anne
Someone
For years I never wanted to know ANYTHING of the woman my dad was seeing
after my parents broke up. Nothing. I didn't even want her to come up in
conversation.
10 years later we're all dancing together at my brother's wedding.
Including my mom! But, I'm older now and I've had a lot of time to get
over any animosity. But jeez, they're just kids, and if you try to see it
REALISTICALLY from a teenager's perspective, you might have an eye-opener.
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991125031227...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
: Sorry Tracey! I am a biomom too! I think I should have said ex wife
instead.
:
: I look forward to you responce!
:
: I am not making him chose between me and his children. I'm sorry if it
sounded
: like I was. I was pretty upset about the whole happy family baloney. But
now
: that is a moot issue.
:
: I do feel for his kids but they are making this so much more difficult
than it
: has to be.
:
: As for his wife. I have no empathy for her. She gets what she deserves.
She
: left him alone for years. Now he will leave he alone for eternity.
:
:
: I know he is a prize! I also know his children threatened to never see
him
: again when he first told then he was leaving. But he left anyway. He
couldn't
: stay there any longer. He was dieing inside with out me. Of course his
children
: still see him. So now he has me full time and his kids when he can see
:
Someone
again. They're not 4, they're teenagers, and I'm sure they're fully aware
of the truth.
Even if their mom was trying to show them that things aren't going to
change, they have minds enough of their own that they know better. Believe
me. I was around the same age when it happened to my parents.
And the best thing they did for me was work together for our well-being.
You know, every Sunday might be a bit much. Perhaps he can compromise and
say every second or third Sunday he will do. But that's *his* decision to
make, not anyone else's. And I bet he will take ANY opportunity to spend
with his kids, regardless of BM's presence.
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991125031818...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
: Someone, if it was just some times I might not feel the way I do. But it
is
: EVERY SUNDAY!
:
: I guess you are right to a degree. I still am a little scared that he
might
: leave and go back to them. I know she would take him back in a minute.
But I do
: know he loves me in a way he never loved his wife. But what concerns me
even
: more is that his children are getting the notion that their family is
the way
: it used to be. Don't you think it is wrong to encourage their denial of
the
: truth?
:
: SuzyQ
:
Anne Robotti
the cheater's girlfriend. You don't have the guy's life when he's
cheating on somebody else to be with you. Nobody has it. His life is
in limbo. A few Christmases and birthdays by yourself, when he couldn't
even send you flowers because his "real" girlfriend would see the
florist on the credit card and he couldn't get to the cash machine will
wake you up to that. Thank God I screwed together the tatters of my
self esteem and left the great love of *my* life (MY "soulmate") after
two years. But it was hard to get over. Sometimes I'm still not sure
I'm really over that pounding I gave my self-image by being with a man
who I loved with all my heart and who didn't think I was good enough to
risk leaving somebody else for.
Anne
Anne Robotti
and your attitude is coming out of exactly what Kim said. No, it
wasn't very nice. But... nice doesn't seem to be working and I think
we're all getting a little frustrated. I think that secretly, in
your heart, this whole Thanksgiving plan is making you feel like
you're *still* the odd man out. And I think that's what's bothering
you. And his kids' attitudes are reinforcing that.
Anne
Geri and Brian
>something together for their children. It was a wonderful experience.
That sounds very nice, really. Were there step-parents? What did they do? I
kind of like the idea one of the posters had where if you are going to
reconstitute the old family for a day, the whole group, including new family
does the thing together and everyone plays nice for one day. (Though I am a
long way from the point where I could handle that myself, I expect.) :-)
Someone
They were both pretty disillusioned by the whole marriage thing. But,
they're both in long-term relationships.
At the time of all of us spending the holidays together, my father had an
SO, and I think my mom was also dating her now-SO. By the way, these SO's
are the same ones then as they are now. Both SO's had other family they
could be with, and that's what they did. It was my grandparents, me and my
brothers, my mom and dad. They got along MUCH better after the breakup.
Maybe they were an exception that way.
Geri and Brian <gple...@aol.comlitter> wrote in article
<19991125110935...@ng-cs1.aol.com>...
: >It was just nice to see two people who do
:
lilblakdog
news:383D4D0D...@worldnet.att.net...
> Lil, you must always have been the "cheat-ee", never the cheater or
> the cheater's girlfriend.
<sad smile>
Uh-uh. I've had the dubious fortune of being all three, actually.
I know where Suzie's been better than she'll ever know. I know where her
boyfriend's been and I know where his wife's been. That's why I can allow
myself to be judgemental.
But I know what you mean. The point I was getting at was that he couldn't
be and wasn't committed to them while he was spending every possible chance
with her. I didn't mean to imply that he was committed to her, either.
lil
--
"Outside of a dog, a book is probably man's best friend...and inside of a
dog, it's too dark to read."
Someone
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in article
<19991125040745...@ng-cm1.aol.com>...
: Well Melissa, what do you think he should have done? Spent the rest of
his life
: in misery? Would you have done that?
I think what people are trying to get at is that if it was so damned
miserable, he would not have stuck around for nine years, he would have
relieved himself of such misery long before that.
: Very funny. I am special to him. He wouldn't have left his wife and
children
: for me if I wasn't.
If he was so miserable, he would have left regardless of there being
another woman.
: I see your point with regards to respect. Yes I agree they need time to
: understand.
:
: Hey, it's not like I forced him to not go on Halloween. He knew my two
year old
: grand child would be here. His kids are 15 and 16 remember? They hardly
need
: daddy to take them door to door do they?
:
: The only ones who went through 9 years of hell were me and him
And what about the kids? You can trust me on one thing, if a parent's
loyalty and devotion lie elsewhere than with the kids or their mother, the
kids know. Trust me. I am sure those nine years have been harder on the
kids than anyone else involved.
She just kept
: her head buried in the sand. But your SO left just as mine sweetheart
did. And
: what if he had met you before he had left her? What then? Would you have
walked
: away from your soul mate just because he was in a bad marriage?
:
: It's my bussiness if she continues to burden my future husband with
financial
: demands. He works 6 days a week and is gone for 12-14 hours a day. She
had 16
: years of play time with the kids. I don't know any woman who has had it
as well
: as she has. It's time for her to carry some of the financial load.
Being a stay-at-home mom is not "play time with the kids". It is a
full-time job, like any other, but you don't get paid, you don't get
vacation, and you don't get to go home at the end of the day and get away
from it all. Sian's post about the reality of her trying to get back into
the work force was right on.
: Well aren't you the nice person! We are scum? Why because he loves his
kids
: enough to stay with them until he felt they were old enough to accept?
I personally think that in my life, things would have been a LOT better off
if my parents hadn't waited 5 or 10 years to split up. They, too, didn't
want to hurt the kids. But you know what? What is a kid going to learn
from watching an adult stay in an unhappy home and relationship for their
sake? That's an awful lot of responsibility and guilt they have to carry
now, as if they don't have enough to deal with! Believe me, parents who
can see when things are beyond repair and know it's time to move on and
don't actually do it are doing their kids no favor at all.
Because
: I want his children to face the reality of their parents divorce and his
soon
: to be new wife?
This sort of change is a crisis for anyone. There are stages of dealing
with this sort of thing. First is the denial, then is the anger and
grieving, and finally, eventually, there is a form of acceptance. You can
NOT get to the acceptance without going through the first two stages,
really. And it's completely unreasonable and unrealistic to expect two
children to do it.
: What makes me sick is people who haven't walked in our shoes who call us
names
: and think they are better because they met the love of their life after
nicky
>I didn't mean to freak you out Anne!
>
>I know it is me they don't want to spend time with. I'm not stupid. I know
they
>are hurt. But divorce happens to millions of families. His children just
think
>it shouldn't happen to them. But it is so they really need to accept it.
>
I should keep out of this - I just know I should. But right now I'm not a
whole lot in the frame of mind for keeping my own advice. I haven't read
the whole thread - so maybe someone else has already said all this - and
maybe a bit more calmly at that. But in case not, here's a taste from his
kids' perspectives. I don't delude myself that I'm the only one who's been
there - and fwiw, nor do his kids!
In terms of this wonderfully dismissive hand wave of 'divorce happens'.
Yes, it does. It happened to my parents when I was 11. When they - and I -
thought, just as you do, that I was old enough to deal with such facts of
life in a sensible, rational fashion. Yes, my father too had a mistress
whom he married after the divorce. And from the one conversation I've had
with her - she too thought my mother was a selfish grabber who ended up
having it all. And yet another snap - she (and he and her sons) also had
these cosy imaginings of playing happy step familes without considering my
mother's or my feelings on the subject at all. It was presented to me along
the lines of 'spend time with my father's new family or do without father'
(sort of the flavour I've been getting from your posts......). So at age
thirteen (they did think to wait that long before setting the ultimatum), I
found myself being put in the wonderful position of having to chose between
my father's pain and my mother's. (Mine was apparently considered sort of
irrelevant - so I kinda went along with that perspective. Until recently,
anyway.) Guess what - I ended up without a father. Haven't seen or heard
from him since the day I told him I wasn't prepared to be part of a step
family on that basis.
Did it make him a happier man? I very much doubt it. I remember a father
who had a whole bunch of fairly serious problems, but lack of love for his
only child wasn't among them.
Did it help me? But then, since I'm just another of a million victims of
divorce who all need to wake up and learn to live with the reality of it,
that part probably doesn't interest you.
In case it does - I did what everyone (me included) thought I ought to do.
I 'adjusted'. I ''dealt with it'. I 'got on with my life'. And guess
what - I'm only now getting to realise quite HOW much my idea of 'coping'
was really just suppressing my own reaction. And how that creates a
wonderfully fertile ground for .. messing up (it nearly come out
differently) ... my relationships with my husband and my kids.
You say your kids didn't have the best lives after your divorce and through
this new relationship, but they've managed. Did you ever ask their opinion
on that? Because appearances can be mighty deceiving - and kids know a
bunch more about creating the appearance they know their parents would like,
than most parents would like to think! And if that's what you are expecting
from his kids, then may I be the one harsh enough to point out that you're
asking them to trade their ability to cope with relationships in the future
for your happiness now. That's a biggy, coming from the person who (in
their perception) is taking away their father.
If this is what you consider to be a good way of building a new marriage and
a new family - I can only wish you (and your BF) better luck than my family
had.
This is not meant to be a flame. More just a strong opinion that should
probably have waited a while before being committed to writing.
Nicky
Jennaii
himself?
> Please keep in mind I had wanted him to leave many
>years ago. He had second thoughts right before he left.
Tracey
(Suzmatz) writes:
>I was hoping for a bit more understanding than I have recieved.
>I thought this group would have a lot more women in or had
>been in my situation.
I think you might be a bit confused. There are probably quite a
few people here who are in or was in your situation (maybe not
quite so long), but, at the same time, that doesn't mean that they/
we are going to say 'You're right!' just because we/they were once
in your position. If anything, what is said should be taken as a
'been there, done that' experience talking.
>I will continue to read and write here, if that's ok with everyone else.
Sure. What you might want to think about is this, too. While this
is alt.support.step-parents, don't mistake the group name for a
blanket acceptance and support for everything that a step-parent
does. This, to me, is a place to foster good, healthy relationships
between step-parents and their step-kids, a place to say the things
that we can't say to others, a place where people can point out to
others where there might be a better way to do things. It's not a
place where someone comes in and seems to be heading towards
more heartache for everyone involved and the rest of the people
here just smile and say 'Okay, if that's what you wanna do......'
You're probably going to hear things you don't like and you don't
agree with.....at least at the start. After a while, you'll catch on
that the vast majority of the posters here are really only trying to
do one thing: To help others to have a good, healthy relationship
between *all* of the people involved in the step-parenting situation
(that's the step-parent, the bio-parentS <note, that's plural>, the
step-children, the extended families.) A lot of times that's not
possible, but, IMO, the next best scenario is to have a good,
healthy relationship between as many of those people as you
can.
Now, you said you were waiting for my response. I'm not sure
you're going to like all of it, you might not even like part of it, but
try and read it from a 'She's trying to help' and not from a 'She
doesn't have *any* idea what I'm going through and nothing she
says applies to me' standpoint.
First, you didn't seem to like my 'try to have some empathy for
his wife' comment. You even said that she 'deserves whatever
she gets.' Sorry, but she *doesn't*. I don't believe *anyone* de-
serves to be put through what she's obviously been put through
for the last 9 years. She might be the meanest bitch alive and
your BF might be fully justified in his desire for a divorce, but
that doesn't mean that he was justified in having an affair for
9 years. That's just plain torture and cruelness, IMO.
Now, when I say that you should try to have some empathy,
I mean just that. Empathy does not mean that you think she
was a sweet woman or even likable, it doesn't mean that you
should try and like her, it doesn't mean that I believe you should
beg for her forgiveness. All it means is that you should try and
understand that your actions has caused pain to another human
being and to see that at least *part* of *her* actions right now
are coming from that pain. (And, if you're saying to yourself,
'Good! I'm glad she's in pain! She's a mean, hateful bitch!', you
might want to consider what that says about you.) If you can't
'get' that she's in pain, you're probably never going to be able
to 'get' anyone else's feelings.
Second, you seem to have this idea that your BF's kids should
be told to just shut up, deal with it, don't even *think* about having
your own opinion about things, and come and join 'our' family now
that your 'old' family has broken up. Here's another place where
I think you need to find some empathy for them. I think *a lot* of
what's going on with you is that, for 9 years, you've been waiting
around, hoping, praying, whatever, that your BF would leave his
wife and you've convinced yourself that that would be the best
thing for all concerned. The problem is that what *you* believe
to be the best for everyone is not necessarily what everyone *else*
thinks is for the best. You're happy, you've got what you want,
now everyone else involved is supposed to be ecstatic, too, and,
dammit, if you aren't, then just get out of our life and get your own
because no one's going to mess up MY fantasy of the good life.
You *need* to understand that what you think is the best thing
is probably the absolute *worst* thing that those kids could think
of right now, and, it's highly possible that they will continue to
think it was the worst thing that could happen to them. It seems
like you're expecting teens (some of whom are the most self-
centered creatures in the universe) to look at things in the way
that some adults do. It's very easy for most adults to look at a
situation and say 'I wish it was this way instead' but still be able
to accept that it's not, it's quite a bit harder for kids to do that,
especially when it's so new to them. IMO, if you want *any*
possibility of *ever* being welcome, you need to back off of the
'They should be told I *am* a part of their life and just accept it
now and get over it' and give them some time to come to terms
with all of this. You also need to accept the fact that it might
*never* happen and understand the 'whys' of that. (I.e., they're
perfectly within their rights to make their own judgment about
you and your actions of the past few years.)
Third, your comment about how the kids should want what makes
their father happy (i.e., being with you.) The problem is that it's
awfully difficult for *adults* to be so selfless as to want another to
be happy when it's tearing them up inside, it's a little much to ask
from a teen. And when you add in the fact that their mother is
probably not handling this at all well, either, well, it's pretty easy
for them to say 'Sure, *he's* happy, but we're all pretty damned
miserable.'
Fourth, someone else has already pointed this out, but I'm going
to chime in here and agree and reiterate something. You are looking
at things a bit backwards with the 'our family' thing, IMO, and it
would probably help things out quite a bit if you tried to change
your outlook on this. Your BF and his kids are family and, as the
'newcomer' to all of this, you should be looking for ways to inte-
grate yourself into *their* family, instead of the impression I've
gotten, which is 'You kids can come and join *our* family, but
only if you have the right attitudes.' It's very easy to fall into the
trap of unintentionally trying to make your BF choose between
you and his kids. I know. I have to fight constantly to keep from
doing it, and sometimes I don't win. I've *never* come out and
said 'Okay, it's either them or me,' but there have been times
when I'm sure it came across to my husband that way. I think
something that helps me *a lot* is that I tend to question myself
and why I have the opinion I do. Are they logical reasons why I
do or don't want X? Or are they knee-jerk reactions because the
situation is not part of the fantasy that I thought our marriage
would be? It sounds as if you've spent the past 9 years thinking
that everything was going to be great once your BF left his wife
and now that it's *not* great, you're angry that someone, anyone
is ruining your fantasy.
I think that's about it for now. I'm a bit distracted today because,
well, it's T-Day and I got a pumpkin pie and pumpkin bread in the
oven and I have to get my rolls to raising, so I'll stop now.
Tracey
Jennaii
are the 3rd wheel. Thats because once again he is contemplating choosing his
wife and family over you.
I feel for your situation but really in the long run this is a GOOD thing. IF
he chooses to spend the holidays with his wife and family you will KNOW where
you stand in the "big scheme of things".
I hope you haven't wasted 9 years of your life chasing a dream.
>That was not very nice, Kim. Of course his kids love both of their parents.
>But
>in the scheme of things she is the third wheel.
>
Melissa J. Ryan
I read your reply to my post and then lost it. I'm replying here but cannot
give direct quotes. Sorry.
First of all I want to say that I did meet my SO before he left his wife, in
fact I was in love with him well before he left his wife. He also was in love
with me and decided to leave his wife BEFORE he said anything to me. I was not
the reason he left. He was miserable. I was a catalyst (at least that's what
the therapist said) that pushed him to face up to his problems and leave. We
never even spoke about dating (or had any idea that one of us felt that way
about the other) until three months after he had left. My SO left his wife not
even knowing if I liked him at all other than a co-worker. Had he told me he
loved me before he left her I would have told him to leave BM and talk to me
about it after he was gone.
Maybe calling you scum was harsh but I read your posts and I can't believe how
incredibly selfish you come off as. You act as if his kids have no right to
their feelings. You are apalled that BM wants to remain a SAHM and that your
sweetheart will have to pay child support. You are upset that he has financial
responsibilities to his wife and his children.
I'm not saying that you have to adore the children but before you even think
about them accepting you and your situation you need to try to be a bit
sympathetic to theirs. I've known plenty of kids whose parents cheated on mom
with their current step-mom. Often no one ever forgives but more often then
not people get over it and learn to accept one another. It takes plenty of
time and understanding though. I don't think you are willing to wait for
either of those things.
You mentioned in a post that you were not marrying his wife nor his kids but
you know what? You are. You wil deal with them for the rest of your life. I
said that I would not be married to ex's past but I am. I am in a LTR with SO,
BM#1, SD, BM#2, SS and alll of the good and the bad times these people bring to
my life. I also know it won't end ever. Even after the kids are grown up
there are weddings, holidays, college weekends etc. My father and step-father
still deal with each other on a regular basis even though the kids are long
gone from the house.
I have to be honest and say that your and your SO's decisions are not the ones
I would have made. Still I wish you the best on your new life. It's going to
be a long road for you.
Love,
Melissa
ICQ# 30417882
It's not talk of God or the decade ahead that allows you to get through the
worst.
It's "I do" and "you do" and "nobody said that" and "Who brought the subject up
first?"
-Stephen Sondheim
Kim Scheinberg
>
>I know they need space. They have been given space since he moved in with me.
>How long do you think it will take for them to understand?
Hm. Let's see. He loved you for nine years. You were his lifeline. The
reason he kept from killing himself. His only source of joy. And it took
him NINE YEARS to decide his life was with you
His kids don't love you -- they don't even like you. You aren't their
lifeline. You haven't kept them from killing themselves. You aren't any
source of joy for them. And it should take them, oh, about six months to
understand? If patience isn't your long suit, I'd cut and run now
>Now hold on. I have put everything including MY OWN CHILDREN on the back burner
>for him. I want him to be happy. That is why I have done so much for him and
This says lots. I'll let someone else elaborate, though
-k.
--
ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
Kim Scheinberg
>(Suzmatz) wrote:
>
> But the financial aspects of the divorce will be complicated. She
>> expects him to finance her stay at home status. He shouldn't have to do that.
>> She had a great career before she had the kids. Just because he wanted her to
>> stay home and raise the kids doesn't mean it is going to stay that way. The
>> circumstances have changed. No man should be required to pay his ex wife
> >to not work. She worked before and she will have to work again.
>Kim (Ikuo) gives this reality check much better than I do, but I'll give
>it my best shot.
Oh man. This is my claim to fame here? I don't know where they live. If
it's California or Massachusettes, he's in deep yogurt. Texas doesn't
award alimony at all. But one scenario:
She gets half the assets. She probably gets to stay at home. If he in fact
actively *wanted* her home raising the kids? She'll never have to work
again. If she did anything to facilitate his education, she'll get even
more. How much? In California, 40% of his income after child support. How
long? Forever. Can he hide income? Sure. But he'll be expected to support
her according to the lifestyle she enjoyed during the marriage, regardless
of what his W-2 says. And it sounds like she lived well
-k. IANAL but I could probably pass the California bar if they limited
questions to Family Law
Kim Scheinberg
>wish them no harm. But if my children were able to get through their father
>leaving (and no he did not leave for another woman) I don't see why his
>children shouldn't.
My friend's dad beat the shit out of her when she was young. She got
through it. I guess your guy should be able to beat his kids, too. I know
survivors of sexual molestation who've survived and even thrived. I guess
it would be okay if his kids were molested, too
>Right now it seems that his well being is what I need to be concerned with. He
And his kids' well being is what he should be concerned with. You, alas,
think it's *your* well being he should be concerned with. That's at the
crux of your problem. You think "they" always came first -- the wife, the
kids. But they didn't. No one came first. He came first. Now you think you
get to come first? A wedding promise -- even a ring -- doesn't make him
any less selfish
-k.
Kim Scheinberg
>
>I didn't rob them of anything. If he had wanted to be with them he would have.
He was with them
>Why do I become the bad guy all of a sudden? If it wouldn't have been me it
>would have been someone else.
Because it *was* you
>As far as respect is concerned. I taught my children to respect their elders. I
>guess others don't.
I will never teach my kids to respect someone who lies and deceives, I
don't care how old they are
>Yes, his wife was horrible to him. It just wasn't him that had told me all
>about her. His mother, sister, brother, etc. all felt all she cared about was
>the kids. It is their opinon and mine too that that is all she cared about so
>that is what she is ending up with.
Wow, that's a huge character flaw. Geri would hate to be dealing with a
biomom who cares only about her kid...
>Yes I'm sure this divorce will cost him a lot. But there are bussiness we have
>together that she will not be able to touch because they are in my name and she
>doesn't even know they exist. As far as alimony is concerned. I told him to
Lying about them in court is a *great* idea
>tell her to get back into the work force. She was lucky to have had the past 16
>years at home raising her kids. I never had that luxory. She just turned 50.
Because staying at home raising kids is, as we all know, *easy*.
>She has plenty of working years left in her. CS for kids here is 25% of his
At 50? You must be kidding
>earnings. So for another 3 years we can live with that. She is pretty lucky
>that he is willing to give it to her. My ex rarely paid CS.
Yeah, I'll bet she's counting her blessings! 'Willing' -- nice choice of
words there
>thrilled he finally made the right choice. The only ones who can't deal with it
>are his wife and kids. That's 3 that are unhappy and an entire family that are
>happy.
One of whom he made a promise to (that he still hasn't made to you --
hell, he hasn't even filed for divorce from her) and two that he elected
to bring into the world. Yeah, I can see how they don't weigh heavier than
anyone else
Anne Robotti
going to stop answering this thread since you're saying everything
I was going to say anyway. :)
Anne
Who couldn't get out of this thread if I wanted to... it's like a
sick addiction now...
Kim Scheinberg wrote:
>
> suz...@aol.com (Suzmatz) writes
>
> >wish them no harm. But if my children were able to get through their father
> >leaving (and no he did not leave for another woman) I don't see why his
> >children shouldn't.
>
> My friend's dad beat the shit out of her when she was young. She got
> through it. I guess your guy should be able to beat his kids, too. I know
> survivors of sexual molestation who've survived and even thrived. I guess
> it would be okay if his kids were molested, too
>
> >Right now it seems that his well being is what I need to be concerned with. He
>
> And his kids' well being is what he should be concerned with. You, alas,
> think it's *your* well being he should be concerned with. That's at the
> crux of your problem. You think "they" always came first -- the wife, the
> kids. But they didn't. No one came first. He came first. Now you think you
> get to come first? A wedding promise -- even a ring -- doesn't make him
> any less selfish
>
Kim Scheinberg
>
>It's my bussiness if she continues to burden my future husband with financial
>demands. He works 6 days a week and is gone for 12-14 hours a day. She had 16
>years of play time with the kids. I don't know any woman who has had it as well
>as she has. It's time for her to carry some of the financial load.
Vicki's worked her entire marriage and probably doesn't have half the
money his wife has. She also had a husband who, to the best of my
knowledge, was never unfaithful to her and is now married to a guy who
would lay down in traffic for her. She's never -- to my knowledge -- lived
with a guy who cheated on her for nine years, worked 12-14 hours a day six
days a week, and couldn't be a father to his own children
I'd say that with the exception of Cindy Martin, all of us here have it
better than she did
>What makes me sick is people who haven't walked in our shoes who call us names
>and think they are better because they met the love of their life after they
>left a bad marraige not before.
Ha. Bwahahaha! I was married when I met my current husband. He was married
when he met me. I left my husband. He left his wife. We got together. It
happened *fast* -- faster than I'm especially proud of -- but we left. We
moved out of our homes. He never spent another night with his wife after
we got together and I haven't *seen* my ex since I met dh. I've walked in
your shoes plenty. And even though we handled things with much more
integrity than you did, I'm *still* not proud of what happened. And after
three years, I still don't expect his kids to like me (though they do) nor
do I expect any less than absolute hatred from his ex. I certainly didn't
think everyone should just buck up and deal with it just because we were
happy. And yes, my husband left an unhappy marriage -- even his wife
concedes that. And yes, his family likes me better. So friggin' what? He's
torn apart the lives of the people who are supposed to mean the most to
him. But because he's happy, that should be okay?
Kim Scheinberg
>Kim, you are in *rare* form this morning! :D I think I'm just
>going to stop answering this thread since you're saying everything
>I was going to say anyway. :)
See, Anne? There's an upside to this 'No Holiday' thing...
Anne Robotti
thing! :)
Anne
lilblakdog
news:19991125053215...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> OK lil it's very late. I haven't been able to sleep due to all of this.
Yeah, tell me about it. I'm none too happy about balancing my $35,000 bank
deposit this morning on five hours sleep, but something just hit a nerve
last night.
So okay...I'll start all over again. Hi. I'm lil. I'm not a mean person;
I am occasionally a little opinionated. I'm nearly always blunt. Welcome
to the group.
You came here asking for advice. We have two choices--we can try to help
you or we can ignore you. And you have two choices--you can accept what we
have to say as trying to help you or you can give up and leave. We're more
than happy to have you here, regardless of how it looks to you right now.
But in the end, we're nobody to you. You don't have to agree with us, and
you can leave at any time. I was just confused about what you were looking
for from us. If we're helping, I'm glad. You didn't seem as though you
were willing to let that happen and I'm sorry if I misread that.
As Tracey said, by nature of the word "support" in the name of this group,
we occasionally get people who think that this means blind support of
everything they do. Maybe we should get someone to rename it as a
discussion group, instead. We try to offer objective opinions to each other
when they're not feeling so objective. Nobody agrees with everybody else
all the time. I love Merrie dearly, but you can see right now that we
differ in our opinions of teen drinking. And Kevin, too, but when he starts
psyco-analysing me I want to throttle him (and I feel comfortable admitting
that because I've never made any secret of how I feel about psyco-analysis).
Not all of these differences of opinion will get so far out of hand, but
stick around and you'll see that some of them do. Particularly in the
"hot-button" issues, which you just happened to land in. I came in on one
of them too--probably the most hated entrance I've ever seen in the two
years I've been here, including Mel's. They just happen sometimes. If you
don't give up on the group, eventually they get to know you more and are
able to read between the lines.
> I was hoping for a bit more understanding than I have recieved. I thought
this
> group would have a lot more women in or had been in my situation.
It does. That's why we're able to offer advice on it. As I said to Anne,
I've been you. And I've been your boyfriend (although, admittedly, I did
*not* ride on an extended path of deceit). I've also been his wife.
My "soul mate" wasn't free when I met him. He never expected to meet
someone like me when he left his home and girlfriend for university in my
city. But he respected me and he respected her and we maintained a friendly
distance until such time that we were both able to be together without
hurting anyone. The next time we met, I wasn't free. So it went on hold
again. One day, if I'm very, very good, it will happen. But it will happen
when we are *both* able to honour that love as it deserves to be--out in the
open with no one getting hurt.
When it came time that I realized that my marriage wasn't what I needed, I
left. I walked away and didn't look back. It was the fair and honest thing
to do. And I was married to a man who hadn't touched me in five months, was
often cruel and rarely spoke to me. But it was still only fair that I end
that before beginning something new. I owed that to him. I made vows and
promises that needed to be fulfilled. They weren't necessarily made
forever, but they were made for the time we were together.
If you think I'm getting off topic and making more out of this issue than I
should, I can assure you I'm not. I'm hoping that you'll understand that
you and your boyfriend inflicted a lot of pain on this family. That's not
fair, no matter how they behave. Your boyfriend made the choice to marry
her. He owes it to her to be honest...even if it's to honestly tell her
that she's the biggest, most heartless bitch he's ever been shackled to and
he needs to leave before he kills her. So you built your house of cards and
it tumbled. It won't necessarily go back together, just because you want it
to.
Hon, you worry me when you say that emotional scars are a part of life.
They aren't, and I'm horribly saddened if you really think that way. Hurt
and heartache, yes. But emotional scars is when somebody deliberately
betrays your trust and love. That's the way your future stepdaughters are
feeling right now. And scars, by nature of the word, never go away. They
may forgive him in time, but I find it unlikely that they'll forget or be
willing to trust him fully again.
> You or others may not agree with what we have done, but it is a done deal.
Of course. I'm not trying to rain toads on you or sentence you to eternal
damnation, Suzie. I just want you to realise that not everybody is going to
validate this relationship immediately. His immediate family does and
that's great. I hope it continues that way. But some never will.
Regardless of whether you love him and he loves you, this relationship was
based on the deliberate betrayal of two children and a marriage vow that
*he* entered into with eyes wide open. So yes it's a done deal. But
sometimes you have to accept the consequences that come with that deal, just
the same as they do.
Kevin
> Kim, you are in *rare* form this morning! :D I think I'm just
> going to stop answering this thread since you're saying everything
> I was going to say anyway. :)
>
> Who couldn't get out of this thread if I wanted to... it's like a
> sick addiction now...
Ah yesss . . . . <I'm very worried about you anne.......>
Seriously, I think this is one of the most fascinating threads I've seen
yet . . . all this stuff is thrown into such sharp relief because Suzie's
position is so at odds with everything that will make a successful step-
parenting family (or a successful any-sort-of-relationship-that-is-based-
on-trust)- It makes everything very very clear for those that are ready
to hear it and want to learn .... She does show signs of learning, but
the shift is so big for her right now....
Kevin
>
>
> Kim Scheinberg wrote:
> >
> > suz...@aol.com (Suzmatz) writes
> >
> > >wish them no harm. But if my children were able to get through their father
> > >leaving (and no he did not leave for another woman) I don't see why his
> > >children shouldn't.
> >
> > My friend's dad beat the shit out of her when she was young. She got
> > through it. I guess your guy should be able to beat his kids, too. I know
> > survivors of sexual molestation who've survived and even thrived. I guess
> > it would be okay if his kids were molested, too
> >
> > >Right now it seems that his well being is what I need to be concerned with. He
> >
> > And his kids' well being is what he should be concerned with. You, alas,
> > think it's *your* well being he should be concerned with. That's at the
> > crux of your problem. You think "they" always came first -- the wife, the
> > kids. But they didn't. No one came first. He came first. Now you think you
> > get to come first? A wedding promise -- even a ring -- doesn't make him
> > any less selfish
> >
> > -k.
> >
> > --
> > ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
> > Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
>
--
Be nice to me. I might be your Secret Snowflake.
Kevin
says...
> I love Merrie dearly, but you can see right now that we
> differ in our opinions of teen drinking. And Kevin, too, but when he starts
> psyco-analysing me I want to throttle him (and I feel comfortable admitting
> that because I've never made any secret of how I feel about psyco-analysis).
>
value my neck.
Kevin
--
Be nice to me. I might be your Secret Snowflake. And that goes for you
too lil.
lilblakdog
read my other one. Then it won't look so much like I'm jumping down your
throat, maybe.
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991125052123...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> From reading what others have written I now know I should not expect them
to
> respect me untill I earn it. I can't say I agree with it, but I'll
certainly
> accept it.
Good. That's a good start. Remember that you're not even working from
zero, you're working from less than zero. They think they have reason to
hate you, let alone not respect you. You've got your work cut out for you.
I'm not sure the best way to earn it. You might--after donning the
flame-retardent suit--be best to talk to Tamara about that. My guess is
that she can help you more than most of us, if you're willing to listen to
her. She's a redhead, though--you've been warned.
> I know . I thought he would file for divorce right away too. She told him
she
> would file, but no papers have arrived yet. I think he hasn't filled yet
as he
> wants to give the children some time to adjust to the idea of him not
living
> there before the legal things start.
I'm seeing a lot of red flags here that I'm not really crazy about. Soul
mate or no soul mate, I think you two have a long way to go before you can
ever consider him yours.
> She
> expects him to finance her stay at home status. He shouldn't have to do
that.
> She had a great career before she had the kids.
I was off work all last year. I'm a hell of a secretary and I can do books
straight up to year end. It still wasn't easy to get a job--nobody liked
the fact that I was out of work for a year. Technology changes pretty
quickly these days. And sixteen years is a hell of a long time, great
career or no great career.
As I said, be prepared for at least a period of alimony while she gets her
skills back in order. My guess is that's the *minimum* you guys'll get.
> Heck I have paid for things for his children over the years and
> they have no idea I have.I even paid for the cattering for their childs
8th
> grade graduation party! See I am a good person!
Um...hon, I wouldn't mention that to them and expect the points for it.
I'm not saying you're not a good person. I don't know you. You *do* sound
like kind of a lost person with a very unrealistic view of life, probably
from your own past experiences. But a person's goodness is based on their
heart, not their wallet. Remember that when you're dealing with them.
> It may be cold comfort but it may be the way it ends up. I can't control
how
> his kids react to us. I can't control what he does in response to their
> actions. I will try to be more understanding of his children and their
> feelings, though.
That's all you can do.
> You asked if I would have given up my children for him. I don't know how
to
> answer that. One part of me says yes and another says no. If my children
had a
> father who I could have trusted to take proper care of them then perhaps I
> would have given him custody. But seeing that their father wasn't even
around
> then I would have to say no I wouldn't have.
I'm not talking about giving him custody...I'm talking about giving him the
kids, period. No terms; no looking back.
You said that you were his future and they'd have to accept that if they
wanted to be a part of his future as well. Maybe I've misunderstood, but
your words imply a choice between all of you or just you. I was just
wondering if you could deal with just you, if *your* children didn't want to
be a part of it.
> Yes wouldn't it be nice if everyone could meet the love of their life when
they
> are unattached. Sorry it doesn't always happen that way.
Read my other post, hon...it often doesn't happen that way. Read Kim's.
And Anne's. I've cheated, I've been cheated on and I've been the other
woman. I could tell you stories, believe me. In fact, e-mail me and I'd be
glad to share them with you if it'll help.
I have no problem with the concept of him meeting the love of his life when
he's married to someone else. The concept I have a problem with is nine
years of lying and betrayal.
> If there is a slug in this situation it is his wife! She couldn't see fit
to
> be anymore than a mother. A man needs to be catered to. If a woman doesn't
take
> care of her man she will loose him.
Oh, please don't take me there. I cannot get into a discussion of a grown
man needing to be "taken care of" and "catered to". I'm thrilled if you
feel that way. That should make your life with him a lot easier. But not
every woman does and it's hardly a character flaw. I've said it before and
I'll say it again--he knew her limitations and chose to marry her. If he
expected things to change and they didn't, he owed it to her to be honest
with her.
> Oh and by the way the correct word to
> describe our 9 year realtionship is LOVE.
That's wonderful. The correct word to describe your relationship to nearly
everyone else who matters is SELFISH. Please don't expect them to be happy
because you're in love.
> I know I can't make her not be the children's mother. I just want her to
let go
> of my future husband. Is that too much to ask? I doubt most of the
problems
> would exist if she would just get a life of her own.
Okay, let's say he left in August. That's three months. Three months after
at least a seventeen year marriage/relationship. That's just not enough
time, Suzie.
This is probably a good time to let you know that I agree with you about not
wanting him to have dinner with his wife and kids. That's leading them on
and allowing them string him on. It's not fair to anyone, including you.
I'm sorry if our problems with your apparent attitude clouded over that.
I'm pretty sure *nobody* on here thinks that that's a workable situation.
However, there's got to be an in-between. It can't be me-or-all-of-us. You
need to give and it seems that you're seeing that.
> The reasons he left are deeper than just putting the kids first. She paid
no
> attention to him. She didn't get along with his family, they could see she
> wasn't taking proper care of him and they lost all respect for her. He
comes
> from a very close family. She doesn't. She never really fit in with them.
You've just described my marriage. That was my husband. He still didn't
deserve nine years of betrayal.
> In his family and in many others if you aren't accepted your marriage
doesn't
> stand a chance.
Yup. That's the other half of our marriage--his family had a hard time
accepting me. And yeah, it put a huge strain on our marriage.
Still not her fault, though. Maybe you should look at his family's
expectations of who the ideal woman for their little boy is and who he chose
to marry.
> He couldn't say no to
> her before.
Is he not familiar with the language? His tongue doesn't reach the roof of
his mouth? Spinal problem that keeps him from shaking his head from side to
side?
We can all say no. Some of us don't.
He had no problem saying no to his marriage vows when he had his affair with
you. He had no problem saying no to you when you wanted him to leave his
family at the beginning.
From everything you've said, he sounds like he just wanted his cake and
wanted to eat it too. He waffled, hon. That's the bottom line. And you
still don't trust your love completely, or you wouldn't be afraid that he'd
go back to her. I'm not saying he didn't and doesn't love you. I'm not
saying that you're not the love of his life. I *am* saying that wanting to
wait for the kids to be older was not his only reason for staying. He
didn't want to stand up for himself, so he waffled. And now he's continuing
to waffle, rather than just filing for the divorce. If she wants him back,
you can bet that she's going to drag *her* feet all the way to divorce court
so waiting for her to file is next to futile.
> No we don't care about looking like the bad guy. We care about each other.
Yes. And neither of you give any indication about caring for the family
that he willingly created.
Your boyfriend *is* worried about being the bad guy. It's why he lied about
his affair and lied about Halloween. It's why he hasn't filed for divorce.
You are unwaveringly faithful. He can let you dangle for a bit while he
figures out how to deal with the three angry women.
> But if my boyfriend
> asks or my opinion I will give it to him.
Of course. That's the ideal way to handle a step situation. But don't tell
him what to do and don't pout when he doesn't and don't force the issue.
I often told DH what I thought he should do. Sometimes he did. In the end,
he did nothing without the agreement of his ex. Your opinion should
matter--to your boyfriend--but it shouldn't be the deciding vote.
lilblakdog
news:MPG.12a7c0849...@news.cwcom.net...
> Yep, that's right Suzy. That's why I live in the UK, and not Canada. I
> value my neck.
>
> ...
>
> Be nice to me. I might be your Secret Snowflake. And that goes for you
> too lil.
ROTFL!!!
Okay, I'll be good! <impish grin>
Kim Scheinberg
>
>> He couldn't say no to her before.
>
>Is he not familiar with the language? His tongue doesn't reach the roof of
>his mouth? Spinal problem that keeps him from shaking his head from side to
>side?
Nothing -- and I mean nothing -- would cause me to wake my kid today. He's
been sick for days. He didn't nap at all yesterday. He was fussy most of
the night. Finally, here he is asleep on my lap while I read usenet, and
then lil goes and posts this. Scared the shit out of my kid when I just
burst out laughing, which I almost *never* do -- not since Vicki mentioned
the ISP's for dead people, anyway
Damn you, lil...
Kim Scheinberg
>That was not very nice, Kim. Of course his kids love both of their parents. But
>in the scheme of things she is the third wheel.
Suzy, I get accused of being a lot of things on this newsgroup. Nice ain't
one of them. And I wouldn't even *be* in this thread if the people who are
*supposed* to be doing their jobs were here. But I'm the one who works
holidays so I drew the short straw this week. If you want 'nice' you could
have posted this last week and maybe Merrie or Vicki would be here instead
of me. Don't ask for jane, though -- despite her rep, we all know she's
not nice. And I think I've just proven her theory that any return from a
long absence (like the one I'd taken) means entering into a flame war
Back to business...
Suzy, you are in a very unenviable position. Let me muster up some empathy
for you. You've stuck by a guy for nine long years waiting for him to
leave his marriage. You take all his negative traits (and he's got plenty
of them) and put positive spins on them. He lies. You call it 'sparing
feelings'. He cheats. You call it 'being there for his kids'. He leaves
you feeling abandoned every holiday, you call it 'being assured of your
undying love for him'. This man can do no wrong, when all we can see is
that this man has done *plenty* wrong. Let me do my Louise imitation for a
moment: "Suzy, your future husband is an asshole." Okay, Louise would
apologize before saying it. But she'd say it
As for you...
Your world view is remarkably small. You had a vision of exactly how
things would be when this guy finally saw the light and left his family.
Your vision seemed to include everyone else seeing the light at exactly
the same time. You want his kids to say, "Thank god dad is finally happy"
and to ignore their own misery as well as their mother's -- who, btw, was
there for them all these years while dad worked late and made time for you
and was little more than a pocketbook for them. You yourself have put her
up for Mother Of The Year -- you now want them to side with the guy who's
basically destroying her life and theirs?
You view their mom with nothing but contempt and it seems her big
character flaw is putting her role as 'mother' ahead of her role as
'wife'. Now, I'm not saying I think that's a good recipe for a marriage.
I'm not the only one here who's with their current husband precisely
because his ex did the same thing. But geez! There are worse things a
woman could do. She didn't, for example, cheat on her husband -- at least
not that you've mentioned. She wasn't a substance abuser. She took great
care of the kids, even if by your reckoning they're spoiled because
they're not greeting the divorce with the grace and aplomb your kids did.
It sounds like she's a pretty okay person who was stuck in a bad marriage.
I'd be miserable, too, if my husband worked 70 hours a week and gave his
remaining spare time to his mistress
I think until you can sit in her chair -- and you're a *long* way from
being able to do that right now -- you're going to be very unhappy. And
like lil, I would take that 'no divorce has been filed yet' as a big
bright waving red flag. I would also back way the hell off from his kids
You've got a very long road ahead of you and I don't think there's any pot
of gold at the end of the rainbow, either
Anne Robotti
answers were a touch out of character...
*I* was doing my part Kim! I don't know WHERE Vicki, Jane
and Merrie are, they should be salivating over this thread
like dogs over a milk bone, but they're all quiet ...
Anne
Geri and Brian
>biomom who cares only about her kid...
I can't even imagine how nice that would be.
Cindy Martin
>better than she did
>
Okay, I'm not sure how MY name got thrown into this thread, but since it
did...
Suzy, let me tell you about things in MY house and maybe you'll have a
better perspective on things....
I got pregnant, he didn't want the baby. He informed me when we got home
from the hospital that he was not getting up for middle of the night
feedings because he gets up at 5 a.m. He did, however, tell me that he'd
get up early on Saturday and Sunday so I could sleep in -- of course, that
was if I'd get up and change her diaper first. Since once I'm up and
walking, I'm up, you can see how long I got to sleep in.
My daughter had two bouts of pneumonia last year. Who stayed home for the
entire five days she was sick? Let me give you a hint, it wasn't her dad.
My husband wouldn't know his daughter's pediatrician if he hit her on the
road. He doesn't know her name, where the office is located, nothing.
If my daughter needs comfort, she comes to me. "Daddy" offered to put her
to bed one day last week and she said no.
"Daddy" absolutely had to have a two bedroom house -- knowing full well that
he's already got a 13 year old son so who do you think sleeps on the couch
because she doesn't have a room?
You know what? If you were to ask my husband, he'll tell you my daughter is
spoiled and I let her get away with too much and that I dote on her.
You'll have to excuse me if I tell you that you don't deserve to be telling
his kids to treat you with respect. Believe it or not, I was raised in the
Marine Corps and if you think I could get away with not treating people with
respect, let me inform you that you are very sadly mistaken. Hell, I still
answer questions with a sir or ma'am behind them because that's how I was
raised.
Now, if you ask me, my husband HAS neglected his children -- including the
son that lives with him. But, to ask him, he'll tell you he's a very good
father.
So, before you sit and condemn US because we supposedly haven't walked in
your precious shoes, I'd give you a week in mine and you'd know what real
Hell is. It's not dealing with a BM that only thinks of her kids. It's
dealing with an idiot father that thinks nothing of ignoring his kids to
pursue his own interests.
Anne Robotti
those "doubts" about whether the guy is going to totally belong to
us - because he won't! And it's something we all struggle with at
one time or another... we need him, the kids need him, sometimes
(just like "real" moms) we take a back seat when both of us need
him. It's hard, nobody's saying it's not.
Anne
Deborah wrote:
>
> I gotta tell ya... I gave up my Soaps to read these posts... wow
>
> Anyhow, I think what Suzie is feeling here is that she is still playing
> second fiddle to his "other" life. That must be terrible. Regardless of
> whether I agree with your situation, it must suck to have those feelings
> and still have doubts about whether the man is ever ever gonna total
> belong to you.
Deborah
Anyhow, I think what Suzie is feeling here is that she is still playing
second fiddle to his "other" life. That must be terrible. Regardless of
whether I agree with your situation, it must suck to have those feelings
and still have doubts about whether the man is ever ever gonna total
belong to you. I mean, wow, he will obviously have the option of
reuniting with his wife for a long long long time. I am sure you have
wondered whether it will be still so wonderful in a few years. What
happens if he runs to her after everyday life gets monotoneous, humdrum,
or routine with you, as it does from time to time. What happens if you
don't feel like stroking his ego some night and he feels lonely inside.
Even if you try to cover up your doubts and worry about it, it will still
always linger. I mean, the guy knew you, supposedly loved you
incredibly, for nine years. He told you he stayed for the kids... but
did he? Obviously, wife must have some kind of emotional hold on the
man. I mean, he stayed with another woman for nine years while he
supposedly longed for you. I am sorry but it sounds like you have been
blinded by love. Loveless marriage he had eh? Hmmm, kids never knew
there were problems?? I take it mom and dad slept together. Well gee,
think the "wife" has been without for nine years? If he loved you so
much, how could he possibly do that?
Sorry Suz.... I don't think that this guy is being totally honest.
Someone is lying here cuz you said he only stayed because of the kids..
That just isn't possible.
Are you sure this relationship is worth all that doubt and insecure
feelings you must have? What about the bitterness it must be building
with this latest set of problems?
I wish you well Suzie. I sure hope you start liking yourself enough to
do something about this. Good Luck.
Deb
In article <19991125131231...@ng-ck1.aol.com>, laa...@aol.com
says...
Nicole {Freezing in Wisconsin}
>However I am not marrying his
>ex nor his children. That family is gone.
How very untrue. That family is *not* gone. Those children will
forever be "that family"... whether you like it or not. And YES... you
*are* marrying the children, in a way.
Nicole
I have gone looking for myself. If I return before I come back, please let me know I'm looking for myself.
My homepage: http://www.fastbytes.com/users/cinirb/
Bunny Cam: http://www.geocities.com/Paris/Rue/5169/whatevercam.html
Nicole {Freezing in Wisconsin}
>His children need to accept his choice to be with me. They don't have to fall
>all over me but they need to give me a chance, repspect me, and think of their
>fathers happiness, not just their own.
>
Respect needs to be *earned*... IMO, it can't be demanded. How old are
these kids? If I were a teen, I'd never respect a woman who has been
having an affair with my father while he was still married to my
mother. Sorry if this is harsh... like I said, JMO. Trying to get you
to look at things from the kids' POV... not just your own.
Deborah
Vicki Robinson
:Okay, clearly *Kim's* back! :D I thought those short
:answers were a touch out of character...
:
:*I* was doing my part Kim! I don't know WHERE Vicki, Jane
:and Merrie are, they should be salivating over this thread
:like dogs over a milk bone, but they're all quiet ...
:
I'm here, but you're all saying the things that I would, so why should
I add to an already long thread just to essentially say "Me too!", but
in a far more long-winded way?
And, truthfully, there are so many things wrong here that it makes me
tired to read them. The entire situation is just so wrong and so
painful that I really don't want to get into it. There is nothing
good about this poster's position, there is nothing that I can latch
onto to try to work up a little empathy. Every time I try, there's
somthing new that makes me shake my head, and I don't trust myself to
respond intelligently when I don't feel some sort of connection. And
I don't. I am completely horrified by S's attitude and
short-sightedness. (And we all know how I feel about biomoms, too, so
we won't go there either.)
I try to stay out of threads when I don't think I can contribute
productively. And I can't here.
Vicki
--
Does it make any sense to say that I decompensate between
paradigms? Probably not. -Jane Lawrence
Vicki Robinson
:
:Yes I'm sure this divorce will cost him a lot. But there are bussiness we have
:together that she will not be able to touch because they are in my name and she
:doesn't even know they exist.
Until just now, you mean.
Deborah
to the kids and don't question it. But, I don't take a backseat to
his ex wife. He takes a back seat when I need to be Mom. I don't
think the OP is really concerned with the kids here. I think her
primary concern is the wife. I think she feels threatened.
I think that is the root of the problem. If she didn't feel so
threatened by the wife, why would she care if he spent Thanksgiving or
Christmas or whatever with his kids alone. It's just a day. But
those days puts him in direct contact with his ex.. or soon to be ex.
I don't think she trusts him... gee, i wonder why? History repeating
itself?
My daughter has a friend at school that has had a terribly rough year.
Dad left and moved in with girlfriend. He came over every Saturday to
be with the family. Eventually he moved back... then left... then
came back... It happened 4 times in the school year. Apparently the
GF has been on the scene for a lot of years. She even followed them
when they moved here from another city. I wish the adults would get
their poop in a group here. this little girl is such a sweetie. He
marks went from an solid A to a C- last year. She is still struggling
with "attitude" problems at school.. She is grounded more than not.
Yet Mom and Dad are still playing this game. GF is still on the scene
and will be for a long time I suspect.
Anyhow, I won't hit send twice this time. lol
Deb
On Thu, 25 Nov 1999 20:11:20 -0500, Anne Robotti
<rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>But Deb, the whole POINT of being a stepparent is that we ALL have
>those "doubts" about whether the guy is going to totally belong to
>us - because he won't! And it's something we all struggle with at
>one time or another... we need him, the kids need him, sometimes
>(just like "real" moms) we take a back seat when both of us need
>him. It's hard, nobody's saying it's not.
>
>Anne
>
>Deborah wrote:
>>
celery2
Actually, as the unmarried live in of a still legally married man,it's *you*
who is the third wheel
the fact that you can't see that means eirher that you are indeed a troll or
are in need of some heavy duty medication
I vote for troll !
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991125032032...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> That was not very nice, Kim. Of course his kids love both of their
parents. But
> in the scheme of things she is the third wheel.
>
> SuzyQ
celery2
kids aren't leaping into your arms
overjoyed that you're their stepmom and can't understand why his wife won't
pop herself into the nearest Micky D's
to get herself a burger flipping job to lessen your boyfriends financial
obligations to her after a LT marriage in which he insisted that she be a
stay at home parent ?
There's nobody in the world this dense.. I think all you nice people are
being had by one of the best planned and most consistantly followed up troll
postings I've ever seen
Suzmatz <suz...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19991125024403...@ng-cm1.aol.com...
> I'm sorry I misled you, someone. I do want advice and I am reading and
> learning.
>
> SuzieQ
celery2
Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:383D9720...@worldnet.att.net...
> Kim, you are in *rare* form this morning! :D I think I'm just
> going to stop answering this thread since you're saying everything
> I was going to say anyway. :)
>
> Anne
> Who couldn't get out of this thread if I wanted to... it's like a
> sick addiction now...
Gotta agree with you there...am thinking of posting this gem over to
alt.troll..this one is sooo skillfully done it belongs in their FAQ
Btw, Anne, how did you hold up over Thanksgiving ?