Question re: teenage angst (advice please)
ELD
SD seems to go through these mood cycles. I've come to expect severe
mood changes, and they don't always revolve around her period. I mean,
they do, but that's just part of it.
She will go for weeks being what I would consider pretty darn close to
depressed. Her self-esteem really suffers, and the littlest things
bring her practically to tears. She's been complaining of not feeling
well, and her sleeping habits have gone down the tubes.
She is now saying that she's behind in her schoolwork, her chores are
left to the last minute - when she decides to do them, and she many of
her once-good friendships have become hot and cold.
Now, given that she's 15, she has a boyfriend, some of her friends are
more than a little dramatic about their relationships, she has a very
turbulent relationship with her mom right now, and she's feeling
pressured about just about everything (I must say that a lot of the
pressure is self-inflicted, but just as real to her), this is pretty
normal behavior for her.
But, it's been going on since I've known her - nearly 5 years now. And
when she moved in with us, we sort of brushed it off as adjusting to the
changes, etc. But, it isn't getting better. The mood periods seem to
be lasting a bit longer, but not diminishing in severity.
My own teenage experience was far from normal, and it seems I was
particularly troubled, so my perspective for "normal teenage angst"
isn't really there. For those of you who have had experience with
teenagers, or who remember their own experiences, is this typical?
I'm wondering if I should be worried enough about it to look for outside
help. I don't think she'd willingly go to counseling, and forcing her
would defeat the purpose I think (as she's already had a bad experience
with therapy when she was with her mom), but am I way off-base to be
thinking that maybe she is suffering some form of depression or anxiety
that needs to be treated?
Please help, as much as this kid annoys the crap out of me most of the
time, I hate to see her suffer to this extent, especially if it is
needlessly.
ELD
I've gone, I think even her dad has gone, and I'm pretty sure her mom
has. I told her that it was her mom's mistake for not trying harder to
find a suitable counselor for her when SD told her she hated it.
Sometimes you get someone great on the first try, but sometimes you have
to shop around til you find someone you feel good about. I told her
that I'd help her find the right person, and that sometimes I feel like
her problems are too much for us to be able to help her with, and that
she could really benefit under the right circumstances.
It seems, though, that when we talk about it, she goes on an upswing.
Sometimes her good moods last a month. Sometimes an hour.
I know being dramatic is part of being a teenage girl, but her moods are
very extreme. She cannot find a middle ground. Either she's bouncing
off the walls and perky beyond belief, or really upset and feeling very
badly about everything.
Thanks for the input, Vicki, I may discuss this more with SO when we
have some one-on-one time.
Vicki Robinson wrote:
>
> In a previous article, ELD <erin...@vaxxine.com> said:
>
> :
> :Please help, as much as this kid annoys the crap out of me most of the
> :time, I hate to see her suffer to this extent, especially if it is
> :needlessly.
>
> Erin, my Stevie is 15 and this sound completely unlike her. She has
> her days, of course, but in general she's up and down in response to
> what's actually going on in her life, and is generally pretty much on
> an even keel. My 12 year old is more volatile emotionally, pretty
> easily put down in the dumps, but she rebounds too.
>
> What you're describing sounds extreme and worrying. Are you sure that
> therapy would be out of the question?
>
> Vicki
> --
> Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources:
> http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html
> The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at
> http://www.urbanlegends.com/
jane lawrence
>
>
> I know being dramatic is part of being a teenage girl, but her moods are
> very extreme. She cannot find a middle ground. Either she's bouncing
> off the walls and perky beyond belief, or really upset and feeling very
> badly about everything.
Erin,
I don't know what's "normal," but that's more dramatic than we
get here too.
I don't have problems with counselors, but I'm not sure that it
would be much help here. It doesn't sound like there's a
problem for her to work through here. It sounds like a chronic
physical and psychological problem. What does her ped say about
the mood swings? Maybe she could give SD a psyche referral.
jane
Vicki Robinson
Jennifer
and happy or depressed). But I think the duration of your SD's down times
seems too long. If you don't have the constant up times to remind you how
great life is, it can be hard to want to keep going.
Definitely have her talk to someone. My best friend saw a counselor from 7th
grade on, and even now goes once a week to talk to someone. Sometimes it
helps to get an outside perspective, and it would be great for your SD to
have someone to trust to spill her feelings onto.
Jennifer
ELD wrote:
> I have had the counseling talk with SD a few times. I told her that
> I've gone, I think even her dad has gone, and I'm pretty sure her mom
> has. I told her that it was her mom's mistake for not trying harder to
> find a suitable counselor for her when SD told her she hated it.
> Sometimes you get someone great on the first try, but sometimes you have
> to shop around til you find someone you feel good about. I told her
> that I'd help her find the right person, and that sometimes I feel like
> her problems are too much for us to be able to help her with, and that
> she could really benefit under the right circumstances.
>
> It seems, though, that when we talk about it, she goes on an upswing.
> Sometimes her good moods last a month. Sometimes an hour.
>
> I know being dramatic is part of being a teenage girl, but her moods are
> very extreme. She cannot find a middle ground. Either she's bouncing
> off the walls and perky beyond belief, or really upset and feeling very
> badly about everything.
>
> Thanks for the input, Vicki, I may discuss this more with SO when we
> have some one-on-one time.
>
> Vicki Robinson wrote:
> >
Tracy "the Lurker"
She sounds exactly like my 9yo BD. She had been on this cycle for about 3
years now, more down than up though. I have had her to the pscycologist and
then to the Pscyciatrist, and she plays the perfect part for them.
I know this doesnt work for eveyone, but her specialist prescribed a mood
stabilizer last week. She has actually been smiling for a few days
now..phew...
Her problem also comes from a head injury she sustained in a car accident 5
years ago, and splitting with her Dad, and then getting into this blended
family never helped.
Like you, I thought she'd grow out of it, but she never.
All the other 3 kids are happy and well adjusted.
Good luck Erin
Tracy
Sian Lee Reid
> I know being dramatic is part of being a teenage girl, but her moods are
> very extreme. She cannot find a middle ground. Either she's bouncing
> off the walls and perky beyond belief, or really upset and feeling very
> badly about everything.
>
I may just be obsessed these days, but that sounds like bipolar disorder:
episodes of extreme energy and enthusiasm alternating with episodes of
depression and hopelessness. It could also be typical teenaged moodiness,
but you don't think so, and you're in a position to have a sense of this.
I didn't have a textbook adolescence either, so I'm no judge of 'normal'.
However, if you do take her to a counsellor, make sure you get a
psychiatrist and not a psychologist. A psychologist could help your SD
sort out her feelings and work towards correcting any disturbing
behaviour, but if there is a biological basis for this, s/he will not be
able to prescribe appropriate medication.
Good luck... 15 is an awful age...
Sian
ELD
We have so much turmoil and stress and rushing around in our house
lately that it's just too crazy to think about this right now. Perhaps
this weekend SO and I will have some time together and can talk about
it. In the meantime I may look up some stuff online about it...
I've always wondered about the fact that SD has a real memory problem.
Like, we have an active, good conversation about something - anything -
then the next day she will not remember it if you ask her. Or, she
remembers parts of conversations, but not all of it. I was never sure
if it was truly a problem or if she was crying ignorance to save her
butt.
I noticed last year she had trouble following even concise instructions
for school assignments. She forgets a LOT. She is smarter than her
grades show. Part of that is a lack of effort, but she gets discouraged
because even when she does make genuine effort, she still does more
poorly than she could, and she doesn't understand why.
I thought perhaps there might be a slight LD involved. Her guidance
counselor shot down that idea very fast. I don't trust that reaction.
But I wouldn't even know where to begin to get her tested or something.
Is it expensive? What community resources do I contact to find out who
can help? Where would she go for bi-polar testing? I know this is a
lot, these are more rhetorical than anything, but I'm overwhelmed with
stuff as it is, that this whole SD thing is just too much right now.
I've been really negative lately, and it's bugging me. It's weird, I
just don't feel like myself. In fact, the last 2 years I haven't felt
like myself. I tried to tell this to SO tonight, he looked worried. I
tried to say that I think it's because of how I've let SD and her
behaviour take such a hold of my life that I don't feel like the same
person, but that it's my fault for giving her that power... I don't
know. He still looked worried. I said we should maybe not talk about
SD until some of this stress lets up.
Sometimes I just feel like going away to get some perspective back.
But, this is an impossibility with school.
Sorry to blab.
Anne Haas wrote:
>
> Hi Erin,
> I agree with Sian. The swings don't sound normal & you might want to seriously
> look into a psychiatrist.
>
> What you are describing sounds a lot like my 15 yo SD who is bipolar. She's
> also very good at "acting."
>
> I took her to a new psychiatrist today (money problems here with the hubby
> being laid off) and she acted very, very hyper. The new psych believes she's
> ADD but all the recent testing indicate otherwise. One of my SD's problems
> right now is an impending visit with biomom this weekend which she is dreading
> but insist on going to. This has increased her agitation tremendously and it's
> been getting steadly worse over the past week.
>
> It might take at least a month of visits to a psychiatrist for him/her to
> determine the behavior patterns better. With my SD's former psych, I talked
> with him at least once per week on the phone about what was going on with her
> at home, with biomom and with school. The psych can't go just on what the
> kiddo says because if your SD is bipolar, she is probably dilussional also.
>
> Please do what you can to get her to go. In my SD's case, to help her save
> "face" I told her that maybe current flame would think she was serious about
> changing if she started getting some therapy. SD wouldn't admit to us that she
> did need therapy but would admit it to some of our friends. One thing that
> might help you & SO is to keep a daily journal of what is going on with her and
> describe her moods. Get input from her teachers, friends parents, etc. This
> helps you view the situation a bit more objectively and also helps the psych if
> & when you have one. It will help pinpoint what are trouble areas and what
> sets off good reactions.
>
> Best of luck to you, Erin, and please keep us informed on the progress.
>
> Anne H.
> (the other Anne)
jane lawrence
>
> I've always wondered about the fact that SD has a real memory problem.
> Like, we have an active, good conversation about something - anything -
> then the next day she will not remember it if you ask her. Or, she
> remembers parts of conversations, but not all of it. I was never sure
> if it was truly a problem or if she was crying ignorance to save her
> butt.
Did we already talk about this? I know I've mentioned this
before.
I have a visual memory. I only caught on fairly recently that
other people are different. Apparently, other people actually
remember what they hear. I only remember what I see. That's an
overstatement, of course, but I'm pretty bad. I find this
unnerving since blindness runs in my family.
Anyway, I don't know if this is a learning style or a learning
disability. I don't know what your school system is like, but
if you can finagle it, get private testing. Around here they
fight testing, and they consider virtually everything within
normal limits. When my nephew was tested, he scored in the 8th
%ile on auditory understanding of material. For some reason no
one considered it necessary to follow him up to see if he had an
Auditory Processing Disorder. Since he was within normal limits
overall, they said he had no LD. It annoys me because this
isn't such a difficult thing to accommodate.
jane
Anne Haas
Cindy Martin
If you're in the States, October is (conveniently enough) mental awareness
month (or something like that). If you check with your local hospitals,
they might have free depression screenings available.
I did that with my SS last year and they accidentally gave him an adult
questionnaire. It really scared me when out of the 6 manic-depressive
questions, he answered three or four of them yes. Yet, his dad still won't
admit that his son might be depressed and need help. According to him, I'm
the only one that thinks that.
Check your paper or call your hospital. What you might do is find a State
Mental Facility -- I'm trying to think what my place of employment was
called before it was bought out by the hospital.
If you let me know what State you live in, I might be able to give you a
couple places to check.
Cindy
Sian Lee Reid
>
> I thought perhaps there might be a slight LD involved. Her guidance
> counselor shot down that idea very fast. I don't trust that reaction.
> But I wouldn't even know where to begin to get her tested or something.
> Is it expensive? What community resources do I contact to find out who
> can help? Where would she go for bi-polar testing? I know this is a
> lot, these are more rhetorical than anything, but I'm overwhelmed with
> stuff as it is, that this whole SD thing is just too much right now.
>
Some like referrals from your GP, others will take clients directly.
People I've known have found that the most productive way to find a
psychiatrist is through word of mouth -- you ask the people you know in
therapy how they like their shrink. Because you're looking for someone
who is good with adolescent issues, you may want to ask the high school
guidance department if they have any recommendations.
Unfortunately, you don't go for bi-polar testing. It's not that easy.
What generally happens is that you start doing therapy, and the
psychiatrist listens and watches for patterns. As I've said, the
alternating energy and depression is pretty typical for bipolar, but it is
also not uncommon for other things as well. After a month or two, the
shrink will have a short-list of possible diagnoses. Then the hit and
miss starts.
If the diagnosis on the top of his list is bipolar disorder, he will
prescribe medication for your SD. Depending on which treatment he
favours, this will either be lithium, or valproic acid (or divalproex,
which is similar) and setraline (zoloft). If the lithium has an effect,
she is bipolar. If nothing happens with the lithium, he may try the other
treatment becasue some bipolars are lithium resistant. If the situation
still doesn't improve, he may move to the next most likely diagnosis and
try an antidepressent like Paxil.
If this seems kind of random to you, I can tell you it's not much
different from getting other chronic medical problems treated. I have
arthritis, and we know that's what I have, but we're always trying this
medication, or that medication, or these medications in combination, or a
little more of this and less of that, until we find something that really
works for me.
I hope this all works out for you...
Sian
Merrie
it. That's a ton of overhead if you ask me. He also seems to understand
how things affect each other much quicker than me. He sees the big picture
and it's ramifications.
But directions are a pain as he has to create a picture for each street
name. We live off Fairway, off Gold Course, off Country Club. He can never
get it right because it's all the same picture.
Merrie
> Did we already talk about this? I know I've mentioned this
> before.
>
> I have a visual memory. I only caught on fairly recently that
> other people are different. Apparently, other people actually
> remember what they hear. I only remember what I see. That's an
> overstatement, of course, but I'm pretty bad. I find this
> unnerving since blindness runs in my family.
>
> Anyway, I don't know if this is a learning style or a learning
> disability> jane
jane lawrence
>
> DH is like this. To remember things he has to associate a picture to
> it. That's a ton of overhead if you ask me. He also seems to understand
> how things affect each other much quicker than me. He sees the big picture
> and it's ramifications.
>
> But directions are a pain as he has to create a picture for each street
> name. We live off Fairway, off Gold Course, off Country Club. He can never
> get it right because it's all the same picture.
>
> Merrie
>
I just remember the picture of the points where there's a
change. Right at the Citgo Station, under the grey bridge, left
just past the building with the cow on it. You have no idea how
much more difficult this is in SoCal than it is back east.
I don't know my right from my left either.
Merrie
with the same few things repeatedly flying by.
ELD
Cindy, we live in Canada... thanks for the offer for help. If you
happen to know anything for Ontario, Canada, that's wonderful :)
Also, Jane, I do remember the posts about the memory and information
retention, etc. It had slipped my mind (did I mention I had a horrible
memory?), but yes, I do remember this. Her school seems to be fighting
anything having to do with the possibility that SD is not a "normal"
student.
However, the more I think about it, the more I think her inability to
concentrate/focus, her forgetfulness and her poor marks in school are
symptoms of something else - I think she has been suffering some form of
depression. I've thought a lot about the patterns she's had since I've
known her, and about what she's telling me now...
She is so frustrated. Today she said "I know drugs and alcohol are bad,
but I can totally understand why kids get hooked on it - they need an
escape from all the shit going on in their lives."
So I was honest with her - and very concerned too. I told her I was
worried, that I experienced similar things when I was in high school,
and looking back I know it was depression.
This weekend she is with BM. I told her to think about the things that
are aggravating her the most - the things that overwhelm her. Then I
said that next week, when she gets back, she and I will sit down and go
over this list. Things that we can resolve together, we will. Other
things may be beyond what we can "figure out" or resolve. I told her we
may have to look into outside help to help stabilize her life.
You should have seen her, she looked relieved! So, next week I'm going
to start phoning around. Our GP is in a different city, I don't know if
he can refer her to someone far away. I don't know that many people in
town, and as far as I know I don't know anyone who sees a psychiatrist.
So, I'm going to open the phone book and make some calls.
I did not realize OHIP covers psychiatric exams, which is a nice
surprise.
I am glad SD did not freak out at the idea, in fact she seemed glad that
someone was listening to her and trying to help her find a solution.
Also, when I explained it to SO afterwards, he seemed pretty
understanding about it too. He thanked me for doing this... I do worry
about her.
I think if we can get some stability (emotionally) for SD, a lot of
those other "symptoms" (grades, attitude, etc.) will naturally begin to
fall into place.
Thanks for all the input, I hope this gets us somewhere...
Michelle Geary
> So I was honest with her - and very concerned too. I told her I was
> worried, that I experienced similar things when I was in high school
> are aggravating her the most - the things that overwhelm her. Then I
> said that next week, when she gets back, she and I will sit down and go
> over this list. Things that we can resolve together, we will. Other
> things may be beyond what we can "figure out" or resolve. I told her we
> may have to look into outside help to help stabilize her life.
> You should have seen her, she looked relieved!
Wow, Erin...I think you did a great job with the way you handled
this. Adolescence is such a bear -- so many different stresses and often
it seemed like there was no way to know if one was handling them properly
or not. It sounds like she really appreciates your efforts to help her
figure out what's going on in her life. Gee, I wish you'd been my stepmom
when *I* was 15 :).
Michelle
ELD
jouney, but trying to learn from them.
*sigh* whole new saga starting here, may describe in another post.
Melissa Torresan
>Thanks Anne and Sian.
>
>We have so much turmoil and stress and rushing around in our house
>lately that it's just too crazy to think about this right now. Perhaps
>this weekend SO and I will have some time together and can talk about
>it. In the meantime I may look up some stuff online about it...
>
>I've always wondered about the fact that SD has a real memory problem.
>Like, we have an active, good conversation about something - anything -
>then the next day she will not remember it if you ask her. Or, she
>remembers parts of conversations, but not all of it. I was never sure
>if it was truly a problem or if she was crying ignorance to save her
>butt.
I just want to comment on this - SK always says "I forget, I forget"
but when you press him a little harder, you find out he knows exactly
what was said, and who said it, he's just saying that to get out of
having to talk about things he does not *like* to remember. Just like
when we questioned him over the privates touching thing, he could
remember exactly what the boys said or did at the time, and I'm sure
it must have been a while ago now!
Like that weekend where we told him Friday night what the rule for the
weekend was, and when we asked him Saturday morning, he would say "I
don't know" at first, and then we would ask him again, and then he
would tell us. I'm not sure if he is just too lazy to try and think or
if he gets away with "I forget" or "I don't know" all the time at
home, and therefore he thinks its an OK thing to do.
I can easily forget parts of conversations over time, but when I get
reminded, I remember. Yet anything that was said in the last week or
so, I would not have a problem remembering it.
I can't say one way or the other about your SD.. but that is what we
found with SK, and I thought it might be helpful..
As for forgetting concise instructions with homework - most university
students here go to class with a hand-held tape recorder to tape their
lectures with. Perhaps this might be useful for SD. She could turn it
on to record when the teacher is giving out those instructions in each
class she has all day, and probably manage that on just one tape..
They are not very expensive here - around $89AUS for a small recorder,
and $5 for micro tapes, but you get one with the recorder usually..
Mel
---------------------------------------------------
Melissa Torresan
sm...@crosswinds.net
---------------------------------------------------
ELD
cared. I think this is the big thing, she just doesn't care, and says
so.
Here, too, if we press her enough, she can remember things she claims to
ahve forgotten, but we don't want to sit around and pressure her.
Mostly the forgetfulness affects her chores and her homework. Her
chores, well we put it in writing and told her to read it, because she
will never be able to cry ignorance again at what was expected of her.
That cleared that up. We posted it on the fridge, and gave her a copy.
As for the school, I bought her this great organizer. I am sure it is
getting used for anything but homework. She knows that she could keep
up a lot better if she wrote it down, but she just won't do it. We
can't do it for her, so I guess she will just have to figure that one
out.
As far as the tape recorder, that might not be a bad idea but, A) again
I think SD just doesn't care enough yet. If she cared enough, she has
many ways of keeping track of her assignments. B) she lost my
scientific calculator that was a gift for me in high school, and was a
gift to her. I wouldn't trust her with any piece fo machinery outside
of the house that cost more than $10. *laugh*
I can't be her scorekeeper anymore. She will have consequences to these
things that one day will make her wake up and realize that she has to
get her act together, and that it's HER responsibility. Until that time
comes, anything I say, do, or offer will get me nowhere. At some point
I just have to give up some fights.
Merrie
You could try asking for a quick letter signed by each teacher in each
class that will tell you if all her work is currently in or not. Both of my
sons High School's have one of these forms. Depending on their current
school performance, we will do this. They just pick one up in the
counselor's office on Friday morning - have each teacher sign it as they go
through the day. Often teacher's would list missing assignments.
To make sure it would happen - there was a carrot when all work was
completed and a stick for not remembering to do it.
I haven't had to do this on any regular basis for a while - although
they are currently grounded from electronical devices until they can show me
something that says all there work is in. We received some not so good
progress reports...
(Which Kevin is why it's taking me so long to get back to you on the
emulator stuff - it's a little hypocritical for me to tell them they can't
touch their computer unless they're doing me a favor. You'll have to let me
find it...)
Merrie
ELD <erin...@vaxxine.com> wrote in message
news:37FF96F2...@vaxxine.com...
ELD
could probably whip one up on the computer relatively fast. Thanks for
the suggestion.
The carrots and sticks you mentioned, are they from the school or from
you? What are they?
Merrie
carrots were a type of card (I can't remember which ones) or movie rental.
The stick for one kid was that I took his keyboard away and/or being
grounded.
Merrie
ELD <erin...@vaxxine.com> wrote in message
news:37FFD9D3...@vaxxine.com...
Kevin
making extra stress in your household : )
Is this or is this not a support group?
Kevin
In article <eEPL3.110$0t6....@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net>, Merrie
says...
<snip>
--
If you walk, just walk.
If you sit, just sit.
But don't wobble.
ELD
issues which require contact with the school.
Then, to figure out a time frame for completion of assignments and the
carrots and sticks!