I need some help (some venting)
Cindy Martin
can also dispense prescriptions?
I know medication seems to be an "easy fix", but there is a psychological
name for some of the behaviors he's doing. You might want to look into
Conduct Disorders, Oppositional Defiant to name two.
Also, because his mom is telling him that if he's bad he can move back in
with her, have you explained that this just isn't going to happen unless the
Judge says so? Maybe if this gets explained often enough, he'll finally
believe it.
Poor kid. Lived with a parent who pawned off her problems on him, made him
wear clothes too small, probably didn't make him responsible for his own
mistakes, probably didn't do too much with him.
Then, here comes dad and SM who he probably heard horror stories about and
they treat him so much better.
What a loyalty conflict!
B a pika pal
eggdonor (the word "mom" doesn't belong anywhere near that woman) that gave
birth to my SS lurks looking for something to use against us but I really need
some advice.
(Boy do I hate resorting to stuff like this)
We have custody of my 7 yr old SS. He's had a large number of behavioral
problems because she had no rules, discipline or supervision over her child
citing she was a single working mother and didn't have the luxury to care for
him. She claims the GAL, the court and the judge were all biased in removing
him from her home and placing him in ours because I'm a SAH mom. (The fact
that his teachers reported he was going to school in clothes that were too
small and in poor repair while she listed a triple figure number for a weekly
clothing allowance on her financials had nothing to do with along with all the
shrinks, teachers and other people involved saying she refused to institute any
type of limits on the child... sheesh how clueless can you be?)
At any rate, SS's been with us for a few months now. He's in a good school,
well cared for but has to do things like make his bed, put his dirty clothes in
the hamper, be responsible for his chores (feeding the cat, setting the table),
doing his homework, etc. She keeps telling him that he doesn't belong her, he
belongs at her house with his mother and the judge will give him back if things
don't work out here. He has to live here because he was bad and if he's bad
here, and good for her, he can go back there.
Lately SS has been hitting kids at school. The other day he punched me in the
face because I wouldn't let him play on the playground (we were late picking
someone else up). It took every single fiber in my being to keep from
throttling him at that point. He says we're mean and that we'll have to give
him back to his "mom" (and again I use the term loosely) if he's bad.
His shrink keeps saying "reinforce what you're doing and don't get sucked into
the mom's house/dad's house thing" but I can't allow him to hurt other children
or adults because he's angry and confused and that damn egg donor is filling
his head with nonsense. We can't fire the shrink until the court allows us to
(we have a petition going in front of the court in a month or so).
I believe his mother is a sick, sick woman. She is obviously angry and hurt.
I understand that. But she does hold down a professional job and lords her
education credentials over me like somehow her degrees make her a better
parent. She is obviously functional on some levels. I know she is in therapy,
but how, just how do we drive home the point that her anger is screwing up her
son big time? She can hate me as much as she wants, I don't care.
She threw her husband out a year before I even met him. I married him because
he's a good man and a good father. When we decided to get married, she began
acting like a woman scorned and tried to paint it up to the court and the GAL
as if we had an affair that destroyed their marriage. When he asked for some
time lines, her's didn't mesh with ours at all. When he double checked with
therapists and kids, he found our time line was accurate and hers wasn't. SS
was asked to leave the private school he was in last year because he would
throw "apopletic fits" over not getting his way and threaten to shoot or kill
people. She told his current teacher that he didn't have problems at the old
school, all this hitting was new.
We've spent all of our savings on things like the GAL and the lawyers to try
and do what's best here, but there are days where I wish we had bought a house
and played disney-parents instead.
Am I insane? Is there anything I can do?
*sigh*
Be a Pika Pal
Because life isn't shocking enough!
Nikki Murphy
Well give me a clue then I can't figure out who you are!!!
It's a tricky balancing act you've got on your hands.
You have two basic problems:
The things that BM says to SS on an ongoing basis
The historic lack of boundaries your SS had in his 'former life' (!)
Each one requires delicate handling. The things that BM is saying to SS are causing
him great worry and threatening his security, which is one of the reasons why he's
acting out. You have to convince him of the opposite of what BM says while not
trashing BM. I've been there. It's not easy, so just be gentle. 'I'm sorry but I
don't think Mom is right about that darling' and then explaining what really
happens would do ok. My SS was the same when he came to us. It's only recently
(we're almost 4 years in) that he's really totally accepted that he can stay with
us forever, no-one can make him move, and even a judge wouldn't send him back to BM
even if she applied.Almost 4 years is a long time for a child to wait to get that
security they need. You can back up the BM thing with 'oh well everyone gets things
wrong sometimes' if you need to.
At the same time encourage your SS to tell you what his BM has said to him and
slowly begin encouraging him to talk about it. He's a bit young to be able to do
so, but by the time he's 8 going on 9 he should begin to have the vocabulary to
open up a bit. I did a lot of 'well i think that a 7 yr old boy who's Mom had said
that might feel a, or b, or c, and that would be okay, I could understand that' at
the time. My SS hadn't got knowledge of attaching names to feelings, and allowing
yourself your feelings, and not feeling guilty about them, and how sharing them
with someone made you feel better. If you put in the loving and understanding
groundwork now with your SS he will know when it's time to talk that he can come to
you and get the comfort that he needs. Show him you deserve that trust from him and
that you're worthy of it. (bearing in mind i'm sure he has huge issues about
trusting a maternal figure so you've got lots of work to do).
Now that my SS is 10 we've moved on from the 'your feelings are ok' and he's now
able to explain what he's feeling by and large. He can name his feelings and come
out and say them without fear of retribution. We now talk to him too about how
feelings are spontaneous, and that's fine, but that sometimes it's inappropriate to
act out on those feelings. We've shown him ways to manage anger (throwing eggs at a
wall, beating up cushions, having rough and tumble) and sadness (having a cuddle,
having a cry, talking about it, getting nikki to make you hot chocolate etc) that
are appropriate. So now if he starts acting out we can say 'right your feelings are
ok but your behaviour isn't. if you are feeling x then you can do y because z is
not acceptable'.
Onto your second problem. Your SS had had no boundaries for the major personality
forming part of his life. They say, show me the boy of 7 and I'll show you the
man'. I fell for that one and it left me feeling powerless to help my SS. Trust me
on this, that's a crock. My SS moved in with us when he was 6 and 8 months. He'd
had a very long time to be brainwashed into BM's way of thinking but he has truly
turned around in many aspects. They are still things we're working on (his
conscience being one of them!) but by and large he's done very well. So you can
make a difference, although you can't make up for what the child missed out on in
those formative years. I sometimes get my SS's baby pictures and toddler pictures
out and cry over them. I wish I had known him then. He's expressed sadness that I
wasn't there too. So the 'bonding' that they missed can't ever be made up for, but
how they perceive the world, and hence, how they behave can change beyond all
recognition. Even simple things, such as my SS has started saying 'you too' when i
say 'have a good day'! He never used to say that. It was always 'I will' or 'OK'.
No thought for the other person. But now he says 'you too'. I think that's fab!!
Back to boundaries. Set them in stone. Boundaries are how children feel safe. They
need to know that their parents are responsible for making all the decisions
relating to their care. If they don't know this they feel very unsafe, and continue
to push the boundaries. If they are not shown consequences for poor behaviour, not
told off, not had positive behaviour reinforced, not been shown easy love and
attention, and particularly, have only ever received attention (positive or
probably negative) while behaving badly it's a tough pattern to break.
Firstly I'd say forget the stuff that you think your SS 'should' do for himself. I
thought he 'should' clean his teeth, or do his homework, or other stuff relating to
him, because it related to him. I got so caught up in that for a while I didn't
realise that I was letting SS make a power game out of it. So I started positively
reinforcing him when he did good things. Even if we were in the middle of a
difficult time (and it wasn't easy when i either felt like strangling him or
running as far away as possible) but a quick bit of affection, eye contact and a
'well done' for each thing he did well made a huge difference. He suddenly started
realising that if he was good, he got lots of attention. Quite obvious to us, but
how would he know that? He'd been positively ignored and neglected for 6 years
while being good. The only time his mother took any notice was to tell him she'd
call the social services to take him away when he was misbehaving. But at least she
looked!! He was trapped into trying to get her attention any which way he could -
and unfortunately because of how BM handled it, he had learned that only bad
behaviour gets you attention.
Also, as you get to know your SS and what bugs him and what doesn't you can slowly
work out effective ways of dealing with his negative behaviour. My SS for example,
hates being grounded. He hates even more having to answer the door to tell pals he
can't come out!! As such, it's an effective punishment, or promise of one (!).
What I would say is: remember that this child has likely, like my SS, learned that
bad behaviour means attention. Remember that if you continue to give him attention,
whether positive OR negative while he's misbehaving, then you are reinforcing the
behaviour. Even if you feel like you're telling him off and giving him a really
hard time, he's still lapping it up! So try and minimise the attention that he gets
while he's misbehaving.
To give you an example - my SS used to have violent temper tantrums. Part of it was
acting out, and part of it was the only way he knew how to try and get attention.
Now, bear in mind, when he moved in with us he got lots of positive attention. But
it wasn't enough. He had 6 years to make up for. (big black hole of need) So he
regularly - 2 or 3 times a week would have a tantrum usually lasting up to an hour,
hour and a half.
We reasoned with him. We talked to him. We restrained him. We ignored him (not very
well though). We even spanked him. We tried everything and nothing was working.
Part of the problem was that we couldn't remove him from the situation. He would
not go to his room. He would not stay there if taken. He would provoke, provoke and
provoke some more. We lived on tenterhooks. The occasional night he went to bed
without a tantrum we would slowly release our breath. It go so we were always
listening to hear that pitter patter of footsteps around 8.30 that meant he was
'starting'. The slightest noise from his room and my DH would be up and shouting
'what are you doing' up the stairs.
None of this helped. Not one iota. It did, (although we didn't know it) change the
dynamic. My SS eventually explained that when he had done this with BM, she had
(and i quote) 'sat on the sofa smoking and ignored me and got SDad to do it). He
used to have tantrums to try and get her attention and each time he got less and
felt worse. With us, it was different. With us, we both tried stuff to sort it out.
None of what we did worked, but when he had a tantrum it reinforced to him that we
both loved him because we both did something! So something good came out of it, but
the tantrums still had to go!!
What we realised eventually was that there was no point doing anything 'during' the
tantrum. Everything we did reinforced the behaviour. So we ignored him. When he
started he was told he would be ignored while behaving like this. We would get up
and walk away etc. He would get in your face, so eventually we decided that rather
than fitting a bolt to his room we'd use our porch. We could lock the porch.
There's nothing in the porch. So it was the only environment in our house we could
make him stay in for timeout without harming himself, and it would calm him down.
He didn't like it. But after 3 tantrums with about 2 mins each time in the porch (i
kid you not) he would go up to bed without a word!!!!!!!!!!!!! Bliss!! It suddenly
became a pointless exercise for him. He wasn't getting our attention during
anymore. He was sat in the very boring porch. It removed the whole point. And the
tantrums stopped.
We would tell him the consequences in the morning also.
Anyway i hope some of this helps!
Take care
Nikki
B a pika pal
He was tested last spring. It was found that he was emotionally immature and
in need of good peer role modeling, but there were not ADHD/ADD/ODD or other
disorders present.
I was a little surprised by the initial finding; however, after seeing the
improvement in his behavior after being around my kids and in a school that
actually works with the parents to solve problems instead of sending him to the
office to cool his heels so the teacher doesn't have to deal with him, I'm
starting to understand the recommendation and ruling of "no special needs, no
IEP necessary."
We will probably request a core in the spring to see if the findings are
consistent with the original evaluation.
>Also, because his mom is telling him that if he's bad he can move back in
>with her, have you explained that this just isn't going to happen unless the
>Judge says so? Maybe if this gets explained often enough, he'll finally
>believe it.
The unfortunate thing is that we can't say "The GAL said...." because it's not
good form. It's not something you want to burden a little one with.
>Poor kid. Lived with a parent who pawned off her problems on him, made him
>wear clothes too small, probably didn't make him responsible for his own
>mistakes, probably didn't do too much with him.
She bought him lots of video games to entertain himself while she was busy.
She does the disney mom thing when she's pissed at us. (See dad doesn't want
you playing video games, but I'll buy you whatever playstation game you want.)
His older sisters (one half sister from BMs first marriage) can't stand him
because he's a "whiny little brat" While it's changing slowly, it is changing.
*sigh*
thanks for the suggestions.
Newsgroups
>The other day he punched me in the face because I wouldn't let him play on
the playground (we were late picking someone else up).
**********okay, let me be perfectly blunt here. i have a HUMONGOUS problem
with a 7 yo kid punching you in the face. i don't give a flying rat's ass
what the reason is. you don't even have to give a reason. all you needed
to post was "....he punched me in the face......". sure, i understand that
you couldn't smack him back, but what the hell did so/dh say about this?
what was his reaction? i'll be the first one to say that "i understand you
are frustrated/hurt/angry/disappointed, blah blah blah, and you feel this
way." don't get me wrong, but there is NO NO NO NO NO frickin' excuse to
punch and adult/mother/father/child/animal. no excuse. even with all the
shit i have put up with, i've gotta give it to dh in that if anyone even
dares back talk me or give me shit (me as in the mommy figure) he is all
over them that i am raising them, i provide, i clean, i educate. if you
don't have him as a back-up, you don't have jack shit.
>He says we're mean and that we'll have to give
> him back to his "mom" (and again I use the term loosely) if he's bad
**********two words for this action......... POWER PLAY. he is trying to
manipulate things for you to do what he wants. even if it is to his own
demise. too, it's also guilt over you. that doesn't sound right, but
aren't you likely/inclined to say "we love you no matter what you do. we
won't give you up because of what you do." HA!!!
>SS was asked to leave the private school he was in last year because he
would
> throw "apopletic fits" over not getting his way and threaten to shoot or
kill
> people. She told his current teacher that he didn't have problems at the
old
> school, all this hitting was new.
*********in all honesty, and i know i am going to get criticized here, but
fact of the matter is that what you are dealing with is a seven year old.
SEVEN YEARS OLD FOR GOD'S SAKE!! i'm not denying that he is angry and
confused. i'm not saying that at all. what i am saying is that this little
boogar needs the shit shocked out of him. period. he knows he can
manipulate you, the school, and anyone else by saying "shoot or kill". he
wins, because of what has happened in other scools. he knows what is going
to push buttons. my take on this is that you need to take the bull by the
horns. i don't mean beat him or reject him. i mean make a very definite
example out of HIM to himself and others. my ss got in a fight on the bus
and i drug his happy little gangster ass down to the sheriff's dept. (with a
phone call previous to arrival) and told them to lock him up. if he was
going to fight and injure others and scare others then he needed to know
where he was going to end up. i don't give a shit what others say, but that
little monster is making decisions of his own and like i tell ALL my kids
"there are good choices and bad choices". you make 'em....you live 'em.
if that little fart wants to threaten others, why don't you set something up
with your local police dept. to have someone convicted give him a talking
to. let the police finger print, picture and give him a good talking
to........if he wants to shoot or kill someone let him know what's going to
be waiting for him on the other side. the big kicker for my ss was after he
got to see all the men locked up.......the deputy took him and showed him
the COMMUNAL SHOWER!! aaaaaaagh!!!!
disciplining (and winning at it) takes loads of creativity. the sheriff
damn thanked me for getting the problem taken care of BEFORE HAND. his
words were "more parents need to do this.....to take charge of THEIR
children." if bm gives you any shit about it........tell her it was a field
trip and to shove it up her ass (boy, that felt good.....wooh!). i'd also
tell that shrink of yours to shove it up his ass.
great! now my hair is on fire.
kitley
B a pika pal <bapi...@aol.comshocku2> wrote in message
news:19991117190744...@ng-fi1.aol.com...
> She threw her husband out a year before I even met him. I married him
because
> he's a good man and a good father. When we decided to get married, she
began
> acting like a woman scorned and tried to paint it up to the court and the
GAL
> as if we had an affair that destroyed their marriage. When he asked for
some
> time lines, her's didn't mesh with ours at all. When he double checked
with
> therapists and kids, he found our time line was accurate and hers wasn't.
SS
> was asked to leave the private school he was in last year because he would
> throw "apopletic fits" over not getting his way and threaten to shoot or
kill
> people. She told his current teacher that he didn't have problems at the
old
> school, all this hitting was new.
>
> We've spent all of our savings on things like the GAL and the lawyers to
try
> and do what's best here, but there are days where I wish we had bought a
house
> and played disney-parents instead.
>
> Am I insane? Is there anything I can do?
>
> *sigh*
>
>
B a pika pal
>to post was "....he punched me in the face......". sure, i understand that
>you couldn't smack him back, but what the hell did so/dh say about this?
He wasn't present. He was at a business meeting and I was picking up kids from
school.
When we got home, it was as follows:
1. SS was sent to "time out" (which in our house is a place to cool your heels
and think, not just a punishment spot) to think about what happened. Since it
was a night BM was picking him up for the weekend (she has standard
visitation), he was there until either dad got home or BM got there, whichever
came first.
2. I *immediately* called DH to give him the run down. He asked if I spanked
him. I said no (I don't believe violence is the proper response to violence,
it just escalates the situation). He said he would handle things when he got
home, in the meantime, keep him in time out.
3. When he got home, he asked SS his side (It was my fault for not letting him
say goodbye to his friend) Dad said, "wrong answer. No one punches anyone.
Period. End of discussion. He was there until BM came. (We know BM will not
back or support anything we do.)
SS did ask for DH to come over at one point to "talk." He said he knew it was
his fault but he didn't know why. They did talk a bit about you don't hit
because you're angry, yadda yadda yadda. He was then allowed to get some books
to read while on the stairs, but he was not allowed off to play or watch TV or
play video games.
>he is trying to
>manipulate things for you to do what he wants. even if it is to his own
>demise.
I know that there's a good amount of trying to play both ends off the middle
right now. So long as BM says "the judge will give you back to me" he will not
accept he is here. I have been following the therapist's advice in terms of
"Hey, that's your mom's house, here the rule is...." DH is doing that as well.
(He usually says "Oh well, then I guess until then you're here and while
you're here the rule is....")
>what i am saying is that this little
>boogar needs the shit shocked out of him.
I've thought about that. I've thought about the whole cell thing but I worry
that it that it will have a traumatic effect in a bad way. Does that make
sense? Since his shrink was unavailable this week (and next), I spoke with my
kids's shrink since she's done some family work with the boys. She pointed out
that sometimes, when a child feels they have absolutely no control, they take
the attitude of what difference does it make because they don't have a say in
things anyway.
>"there are good choices and bad choices". you make 'em....you live 'em.
That's part of the anger. Having never been made accountible for his personal
actions before living here, he doesn't get that these are his choices. When he
gets in trouble and I point out "You chose to..." He yells "I hate choices, I
want to go to mom's where there are no rules and I don't have to make choices!"
I try and ignore it and remind him he can choose to do good
things/well/whatever and how not choosing is still a choice, but sometimes I
think it's landing on deaf ears.
>.tell her it was a field
>trip and to shove it up her ass (boy, that felt good.....wooh!).
Yeah... I sometimes say her ass is so tight you couldn't get a greased
chopstick up there. But hey, she's got a Masters from Harvard and I don't, so
she knows more than I ever will...she'll tell you so too.
thanks
Newsgroups
> she knows more than I ever will...she'll tell you so too.
>
ha ha! i don't have my degree, but you wouldn't believe how many languages
i can say "shove it up your ass" in. call it survival skills.
kitley
B a pika pal <bapi...@aol.comshocku2> wrote in message
news:19991118162714...@ng-ch1.aol.com...
> >all you needed
> >to post was "....he punched me in the face......". sure, i understand
that
> >you couldn't smack him back, but what the hell did so/dh say about this?
>
> >he is trying to
> >manipulate things for you to do what he wants. even if it is to his own
> >demise.
>
> I know that there's a good amount of trying to play both ends off the
middle
> right now. So long as BM says "the judge will give you back to me" he
will not
> accept he is here. I have been following the therapist's advice in terms
of
> "Hey, that's your mom's house, here the rule is...." DH is doing that as
well.
> (He usually says "Oh well, then I guess until then you're here and while
> you're here the rule is....")
>
> >what i am saying is that this little
> >boogar needs the shit shocked out of him.
>
> I've thought about that. I've thought about the whole cell thing but I
worry
> that it that it will have a traumatic effect in a bad way. Does that make
> sense? Since his shrink was unavailable this week (and next), I spoke
with my
> kids's shrink since she's done some family work with the boys. She
pointed out
> that sometimes, when a child feels they have absolutely no control, they
take
> the attitude of what difference does it make because they don't have a say
in
> things anyway.
>
> >"there are good choices and bad choices". you make 'em....you live 'em.
>
> That's part of the anger. Having never been made accountible for his
personal
> actions before living here, he doesn't get that these are his choices.
When he
> gets in trouble and I point out "You chose to..." He yells "I hate
choices, I
> want to go to mom's where there are no rules and I don't have to make
choices!"
> I try and ignore it and remind him he can choose to do good
> things/well/whatever and how not choosing is still a choice, but sometimes
I
> think it's landing on deaf ears.
>
> >.tell her it was a field
> >trip and to shove it up her ass (boy, that felt good.....wooh!).
>
> Yeah... I sometimes say her ass is so tight you couldn't get a greased
> chopstick up there. But hey, she's got a Masters from Harvard and I
don't, so
> she knows more than I ever will...she'll tell you so too.
>
> thanks
>
Kevin
> . But hey, she's got a Masters from Harvard and I don't, so
> > she knows more than I ever will...she'll tell you so too.
> >
>
> ha ha! i don't have my degree, but you wouldn't believe how many languages
> i can say "shove it up your ass" in. call it survival skills.
> kitley
>
Kitley - you're definitely on a roll.
Kevin
>
Letha Edwards
SAME PROBLEMS WITH HIM AS OTHER PARENTS ARE HAVING HE HAS A BAD ATTUIDE
IN MY ON OPPION HE BEEN PUT THROUGH TO MANY FOSTER HOMES AND TO ME THATS
WHY HE IS REBELLING IM I RIGHT OR WRONG I NEED SOM HELP SO IF ANYBODY
HAS ANY SUSGETONS I WOULD APPERCATE ANY HELP I CAN GET HE GOES OFF
LIKESLMING DOORS HITTING WALLS ETC ETC THANK U FOR LISTENING I HOPE I
DID THIS RIGHT.
B a pika pal
get worse before they get better anytime soon.
I will keep you posted.
jane lawrence
>
>
> school.
>
> When we got home, it was as follows:
>
> 1. SS was sent to "time out" (which in our house is a place to cool your heels
> and think, not just a punishment spot) to think about what happened. Since it
> was a night BM was picking him up for the weekend (she has standard
> visitation), he was there until either dad got home or BM got there, whichever
> came first.
>
> 2. I *immediately* called DH to give him the run down. He asked if I spanked
> him. I said no (I don't believe violence is the proper response to violence,
> it just escalates the situation). He said he would handle things when he got
> home, in the meantime, keep him in time out.
>
> 3. When he got home, he asked SS his side (It was my fault for not letting him
> say goodbye to his friend) Dad said, "wrong answer. No one punches anyone.
> Period. End of discussion. He was there until BM came. (We know BM will not
> back or support anything we do.)
>
> SS did ask for DH to come over at one point to "talk." He said he knew it was
> his fault but he didn't know why. They did talk a bit about you don't hit
> because you're angry, yadda yadda yadda. He was then allowed to get some books
> to read while on the stairs, but he was not allowed off to play or watch TV or
> play video games.
This sounds like a good way to handle the situation to me - firm
stance that the behavior was unacceptable. Discussion of what
is wrong with the behavior. No reinforcement of the violence by
following it with more violence. Temporary loss of privileges.
I hate the whole idea of the jail thing. Of course, it's
traumatic for the kid - that's the point. To me it seems like
setting the kid up to lose. Instead of working toward something
good, he's supposed to be motivated to avoid something bad. You
tell him that he'll end up in jail IF he continues to be
violent. Since he continues to feel violent emotions and has
not mastered dealing with them, prophesies like this can be
self-fulfilling. You don't want to take away his hope.
Are you helping SS learn how to manage his anger? Offering
alternatives to punching people in the face? Working on skills
to deal with rage and to control his reaction until he's past
it?
jane
jethwi...@my-deja.com
years.
In no way would being punched in the face by a 7 yo stepson be ignored.
I believe I would have called juvenile svcs. to come and fill out a
report on the child. GAL and BM can get over it. The kid is in
trouble, more so I think that a school can evaluate. The IEP crap is
nothing more than entitlement money from the feds to the school
district. I would have the kid tested by a kid psychiatrist. That
way, between the assault report and the testing maybe he can get some
help. I truly believe that since the kid knows right from wrong, this
wrong needs significant consequences...something to scare him, just
short of being traumatized.
Exactly how many languages can you use to say shove it.......?
In article <s38jmu...@corp.supernews.com>,
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
B a pika pal
>Are you helping SS learn how to manage his anger? Offering
>alternatives to punching people in the face? Working on skills
>to deal with rage and to control his reaction until he's past
>it?
We have been trying. For over a year (since DH and I became engaged) I have
been trying to help him with anger management. It seems like every step
forward ends up with two backwards since BM wants her son to be a behavioral
problem. (That way she can blame everything on DH and once again prove that
*all* men are worthless, nasty horrible creatures that are only good for
procreation and a paycheck.)
I've done a fair amount of work with child-life specialists, psychologists,
doctors of behavioral medicine, therapists, you name it. I have a bioson who
has been on steroids for five years due to a kidney problem. It pains me to
when I take both of them to a playground and someone will watch the two, point
to SS and say, "Poor kid, you can really see how the steroids effect his
behavior..." I want to scream because he's not the one on steroids. *sigh*
The past two days were good days until this afternoon. Lots of positive praise
and reinforcement. Lots of "I see you playing well with your team and paying
attention..." types of things. Then, we get home and he stole my older
bioson's Pokemon cards. He decided it was OK to take them because he didn't
want to get beaten. This included the $40 charizard card that BS's dad bought
him for his birthday. (Don't even start me on the folly of buying a 10 year
old a $40 Pokemon card...my ex was trying to trump the tickets to the ballgame
we bought as a birthday present. My ex has come a *long* way but still has a
ways to go.)
My SD caught her brother taking the cards out of the album and putting them in
his and ratted him out. She was livid he would even attempt to do something
like that.
What disturbs me was the lack of remorse. He really didn't care that we were
disappointed, hurt and angry. His attitude was, "Go ahead and take my cards
away from me, mom will just buy me more and I won't bring them over here."
What hurts is, he's right. She will do that.
Finally he said, "Mom said she's going to have the judge give me back to her
and I'll never have to live here again."
I lost it. After months of phrasing things positively and "explaining" I
finally said, "You don't get it, you're not going to live at your mom's house
now or next year or possibly ever again. The judge listened to your mom and
your dad and then he had the GAL look at both homes and agreed with him that
you need to live here. That's it, end of story. Your mom can ask but, you're
staying. The judge isn't changing his mind."
He started yelling "I don't want to hear this." I said, "Tough, the truth
hurts. I don't care if you want to hear it or not. Your choice pal, you can
be miserable or happy but you aren't going to live at your mom's."
I felt so horrible saying all that but I think he needs to start hearing all
this. I'm so sick of pedaling around this anymore.
He was not allowed to do anything today. He couldn't go to the make-n-take
crafts fair we were planning on attending. (SD and DH did go, I didn't want her
to be punished because of him.) Family movie night (for him) was cancelled.
He couldn't help make bread with me today, something he had been looking
forward to all week. No TV, no gameboy/video games, nothing. He was only
allowed to sit in the time out area and do his homework.
He sat at the table for dinner with us but it wasn't pleasant. After dinner he
said, "I get out of time out now."
DH said, "No, you don't set the rules here. You have two choices, you can sit
in time out with a couple of books or you can go to bed." He chose bed, but
not before another tirade about how wonderful mom's house is and how mean we
are.
BM came by to pick up SD to go to a play (a last minute call and, since family
movie night was cancelled and we've been trying to encourage SD to spend more
time with her mom we figured it was a good thing for them). SS came out of his
room and said, "I want to talk to mom."
I told him no, go back to bed. He ran back in his room and literally cried for
over an hour. He came out, looked at DH (who wasn't present when SS came out
of his room previously) and said, "I wanted to talk to mom and she (pointing at
me) wouldn't let me."
He said, "Good thing it was her because you wouldn't have gotten off that easy
with me." He ran into the room crying again. He finally fell asleep but I'm
drained.
I asked DH to cal the woman that did some family therapy with the family when
they first broke up. She is in the same practice as SS's shrink (whom I feel
is worthless, apparently so does everyone else but we have to have permission
from the court to fire him...our hearing isn't until the second week in
December). The shrink SS is seeing keeps saying, "Well, BM is uncomfortable in
the same room as you two, so I don't think I should force any family work." I
fired off an email tonight telling him, it's not about her, it's about SS. I
don't care about what she's "comfortable" with, I care about SS. If she can't
be enough of a grown up to sit up and take notice, then there's a lot more of a
problem here than any of us realized.
(Actually I originally said something to the effect of if she can't sit up and
swallow, the least she could do was spit rather than figure out what to do with
a mouthful...but I did edit it out of the final draft.)
I think I'm going to draw a long, hot bubble bath and read a magazine. I pray
this gets better because I don't know ho much more I can take. I hate it when
people say, "G-d only gives you what you can handle." It feels like a
punishment for being competent.
B a pika pal
Unfortunately, he's seeing a full medical psychiatrist who isn't doing squat.
He feels that SS needs a "safe place" to "explore his feelings."
He doesn't want to "push" family work since BM is "uncomfortable" with us in
the same room as her. Personally, I have hit my breaking point with BM.
I'm sick of lawyers saying, "Well, you and I know that it's a level of abuse
but you have to understand what the court sees on a daily basis...." F the
court. Where is it written that you have to have the snot physically kicked
out of you by an adult in order for it to be classified as abuse? This woman
has openly screwed with her kids heads. She has been classified as a paranoid
and possible borderline personality disorder but, because she's middle class
and isn't hitting the kids she has the right to screw with her son like that?
I wish I could look at a judge and say, "I know you see a lot worse and I feel
for those kids, but I'm trying to help this one turn out to be a good, happy,
healthy human being that won't end up standing in front of you because he
believes his mom will always be there to bail him out no matter what he does."
Geri and Brian
>feel
>for those kids, but I'm trying to help this one turn out to be a good, happy,
>healthy human being that won't end up standing in front of you
Wouldn't that be great?? Grrrrr!
Geri
~~~~~~~~~~
"I only talk seriously on the first Tuesday in every month, from 4PM to 7PM."
~~~~~~~~~~
To e-mail us, dump the litterbox. :-)
Newsgroups
> traumatic for the kid - that's the point. To me it seems like
> setting the kid up to lose. Instead of working toward something
> good, he's supposed to be motivated to avoid something bad. You
> tell him that he'll end up in jail IF he continues to be
> violent. Since he continues to feel violent emotions and has
> not mastered dealing with them, prophesies like this can be
> self-fulfilling. You don't want to take away his hope
jane,
i really have a problem with your criticism here. i don't think that you
really know me or my situation. i can definently assure you that i have
spent countless hours with this child "working through" his violent
emotions. we have run the gammet of acting out our emotions, punching the
pillow, crying, running the anger out, listening to music loudly, having
quiet thinking time,drawing the pictures, reading the books, time alone,
time together,time with the teacher, time with the counselor, and on and on
and on. this child of ours has NO excuse to be set up to lose. he has
every wonderful example laid out before him to succeed. again, we have
given him these examples by counselors, teachers, grandparents, books,
videos, plays, local heroes, his father, myself and yes, even his own
goddamn mother. every morning when we wake, we say what our goals are for
the day and what we hope to work towards. (i.e..."i will make 100 on my
test" "i will help others" "i will not beat anyone up"). he has absolutely
NO reason in this world to be motivated to do anything wrong. as i said, i
understand his emotions of hurt and anger. and he defiently knows that if
he needs to get this anger out that he can talk to at least three people at
school, at least two people in our church community and anyone in our
family. i even go as far to tell him that he doesn't need to talk to me if
he is not comfortable. i can always call someone for him to talk to. and
believe it or not, there have been times when he has said he'd rather speak
to someone else, i did call them, and they did work it out. there have even
been times i have gone as faar as tracking down his mother for him to talk
to.
i, in no way, stated to him or in the post that he was going to jail
because "he was a damn loser" or say "you're gonna end up just like your
mother." i prophesized nothing!!! i took him there and let him run through
the ringer because he needs to know the consequences of his actions ON HIM.
of course, after he beats someone up we're going to talk to him, the school
is going to talk to him and the counselor is going to talk to him, but he
needs to know what else in his life is going to happen BESIDES TALKING!!
yes, i did mean for it to be traumatic for him. i wanted him to be as
scared as that kindergartener that got beaten up by the third grader. as
some might know, although i don't know if you do, i used to run as a medic
in a rough town in south texas. we picked up countless, countless number of
teens that didn't really think there were ever going to be consequences.
they didn't think about their victims. they didn't think about the victims
families or the pain to be inflicted on their own families. there are
things that you see in life that change the way you run your own life. that
changes the choices you make. and in NO uncertain terms will complacently
keep sitting on the side of the bed every night saying, "but you have to
understand". there comes a point where you have to say "i will show you why
you must understand." that is my responsibility to him.... to ALL of them.
jane, i don't know your history or your situation. apparently, it is one
that you keep in control by your own means and i have to say good for you.
i am always willing to learn other peoples parenting/discipline/teaching
styles.
i make a concerted effort to understand that whatever people are going
through and acting out themselves AS ADULTS is affected by their own
situations and i try to respect them according to each person. i felt it a
personal attack, (and yes, i know when you put something on the usenet.....
expect an attack of some form or fashion) by you. i might not like a lot of
things you say, but i would never say to ANYONE "i hate.....". by saying
that you disrespect me and my situation, and i don't appreciate it. i
realize that support also involves different peoples ideas and opinions, but
i felt that you sometimes take it too far. i received criticism and that is
not support.
you always have a different view on things and i respect you for that and
have likewise learned from you. i would never tear down anything you had
done or said. i realize that by even responding to your post i blatantly
put myself out for your criticism again.
kitley
jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:383798E0...@excite.com...
> Are you helping SS learn how to manage his anger? Offering
> alternatives to punching people in the face? Working on skills
> to deal with rage and to control his reaction until he's past
> it?
>
> jane
>
jane lawrence
> jane,
> i really have a problem with your criticism here.
>long snip
>
> i felt it a
> personal attack, (and yes, i know when you put something on the usenet.....
> expect an attack of some form or fashion) by you. i might not like a lot of
> things you say, but i would never say to ANYONE "i hate.....". by saying
> that you disrespect me and my situation, and i don't appreciate it. i
> realize that support also involves different peoples ideas and opinions, but
> i felt that you sometimes take it too far. i received criticism and that is
> not support.
>
> you always have a different view on things and i respect you for that and
> have likewise learned from you. i would never tear down anything you had
> done or said. i realize that by even responding to your post i blatantly
> put myself out for your criticism again.
> kitley
>
> jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
>
> > I hate the whole idea of the jail thing. Of course, it's
> > traumatic for the kid - that's the point. To me it seems like
> > setting the kid up to lose. Instead of working toward something
> > good, he's supposed to be motivated to avoid something bad. You
> > tell him that he'll end up in jail IF he continues to be
> > violent. Since he continues to feel violent emotions and has
> > not mastered dealing with them, prophesies like this can be
> > self-fulfilling. You don't want to take away his hope.
>
kitley,
I'm sorry you have a problem with my post, but it is your
problem. I disagree with you. What's the big deal?
I told BAPP that I hated the whole idea of the jail thing. I
would discourage her from trying that approach. I think it's a
bad idea. I wouldn't be being helpful to BAPP if I didn't let
her know.
I'd like you to read over the paragraph of mine that you quoted
as a personal attack. As I read, it deals with a method of
discipline. There is nothing in it about you or your
situation. If I've got this right, you read it as a comment on
you and your parenting. IMHO, you're reading things into the
post that you don't need to. People disagree with me all the
time in this NG, and I never feel that they are calling me a bad
parent. Well, sometimes they probably are, but what do they
know?
I'm not up to an ideological discourse on the nature of
"support" groups at the moment. Basically, I feel that we
should support each other in our efforts. Reinforcing each
other when we choose an ineffective or destructive course is
just plain stupid. The idea that we can't civilly disagree with
each other is ludicrous to me.
jane
B a pika pal
>would discourage her from trying that approach. I think it's a
>bad idea. I wouldn't be being helpful to BAPP if I didn't let
>her know.
and I appreciate all the opinions I have received so far. After yesterday's
incident with him stealing my son's pokemon cards, we are trying to think of
what to do and the jail thing actually came up from someone we know and does
counseling work for teens. She feels it's more effective for teens than young
children because teens realize they could very well end up in jail.
Tomorrow I wil speak with one of the Behavioral med specialists I know first to
see what she suggests. I don't like calling in my favors with her unless it's
a big thing and this just got major.
He's been "in jail" at home for the past two days. He can only sit in the
time-out area (on the stairs) with books or homework OR he can go to bed. He
comes off/out for meals and then has to go back.
I hate this. I hate the lack of remorse, the testing of wills and the total
attempt to dominate things. It makes me absolutely insane. I love having kids
sit with me on the couch so we can read or play. I love having them help in
the kitchen and being able to play and such.
*sigh*
I know that at some point this will be a "remember the time you..." incident.
I hope it's from a happy perspective instead of a "I should have realized then"
perspective.
Someone
situations.
: I hate this. I hate the lack of remorse,