Inflexible Bio-mom problem
Wayne
lurking for nearly a year.
My situation is this:
I have been living with my s.o. for nearly two years now. I have an 8 y.o.
daughter and he has a 6 y.o. daughter. They both live with us full-time,
except the typical weekend visitations. The 6 y.o. (B) sees her BM every
Tue. and Thu. after school because she lives quite near us (about 20 min.
away).
My d is active in Girl Scouts, taking ice skating lessons, and soon to be
involved in a school swimming program. B, on the other hand, is not involved
in anything. We have registered her for Girl Scouts, and she begins this
Thu. BM was very perturbed that we did this on her day with B. We also
wanted to sign B up for swimming lessons to help overcome her fear of water,
and gymnastics because she is so agile. BM is pissed and told me today that
if we do sign her up for anymore activities not to do it on Tue. or Thu.
Well, swimming is only on Tue., and she said that she would rather not have
B involved if that were the case. She is in college (as am I), she works
(which I also do), and she says she doesn't want to have to run B around on
those days that she has her; she would rather we do it. Which I do not mind
in the least. I spend so much time with B that I love her as my own. The
issue, in my mind, is not who will take her to these activities but that she
gets there. I just feel BM should be much more enthusiastic and supportive
of her daughter's activities.
Am I unreasonable in believing that B is a priority here? If B is excited
to have the opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities,
shouldn't mom encourage this rather than hamper it? My s.o. is going to
talk to her and try to work this out in a civilized manner, but I wonder if
any of you have any suggestions about how we should approach BM? B is so
disappointed right now.
I guess I feel rather fortunate though; this is the first conflict we have
had with BM in over a year. She really is a decent person, I just feel that
she is really putting her school, her work, and her needs above B's. Right
now I am just crossing my fingers that the gymnastics class isn't on a Tue.
or Thu.
Thank you for reading this far, those of you who have.
I have learned a lot over the year I have lurked here, and you all are such
a wonderful and supportive group of individuals.
--S&W--
BTW-- BM is unable, or unwilling, to change the days that she sees B.
nancy g.
(snip)
> We have registered her for Girl Scouts, and she begins this
> Thu. BM was very perturbed that we did this on her day with B.
I'm trying to think of a way to say this without being too blunt
about it.
You shouldn't have done this. It's BIO-MOM's day with the little girl.
BIO-MOM should make the choice of what activities she does or doesn't
do on the days she's with her. If the little girl wants to sign up for
Girl Scouts, she could tell Mom about it, and you or Dad could tell
Mom about it, but in the long run, Thursdays are her day with Mom and
so you and Dad don't get to make decisions about what she does on those
days, as long as she's not in any kind of dangerous or inappropriate
situation.
> We also wanted to sign B up for swimming lessons to help overcome
> her fear of water, and gymnastics because she is so agile.
Another thing to consider: Here's a SIX YEAR OLD CHILD who already has
to cope with spending two afternoons plus some weekends going to a different
place than she usually does, and now she's got Girl Scouts too, plus I assume
this is her first year of school (other than nursery or preschool) and you
want to sign her up for another one or two activities on top of that?
IMO (and this is my opinion only, of course, as is everything else) that
would be *way* too much for a kid that young to cope with, without getting
totally stressed out. This is totally separate from the step issue.
> BM is pissed and told me today that
> if we do sign her up for anymore activities not to do it on Tue. or Thu.
> Well, swimming is only on Tue., and she said that she would rather not have
> B involved if that were the case.
And I agree with her. I'd be *HIGHLY* upset if I were the NCP who had my
child two afternoons a week and found out that the CP had scheduled her for
activities not only one one, but on BOTH of the days I had with her.
> The issue, in my mind, is not who will take her to these activities
> but that she gets there.
I'm afraid the issue is that Mom is entitled to decide what the child does
on the afternoons she's with her. You obviously feel that doing a lot and
having many different activities scheduled is a good thing for the child.
Mom apparently does not. You need to let go of this one.
> Am I unreasonable in believing that B is a priority here?
SHE is the priority. The ACTIVITIES are not.
> If B is excited to have the opportunity to participate in
> extracurricular activities, shouldn't mom encourage this
> rather than hamper it?
Only to a certain degree. A six-year-old is too young to set reasonable
limits, and she may feel that taking three different activities is fun
and exciting. She'd probably feel differently about them several weeks
into the year. Kids need down time just as much as adults do.
> B is so disappointed right now.
Then this might be a good opportunity to start introducing her to the
concept of "you can't always get what you want." I don't mean that to
sound sarcastic or flippant ... this is one of the most important
things that kids need to learn, and the earlier they learn it, IMO, the
less likely they are to complain when they get to be teenagers and
find they can't have every pair of designer jeans or fancy sneakers they
want, or stay out till midnight, or go on trips ... you get the idea.
Just treat this very matter of factly, and say "Well, there were so
many different things to choose from, this year we chose Girl Scouts,
and maybe next year you'll get to take swimming or gymnastics."
If you look at the Big Picture, this issue will fade into insignificance.
Really.
Sian Lee Reid
<shan...@prodigy.net> wrote:
> Am I unreasonable in believing that B is a priority here? If B is excited
> to have the opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities,
> shouldn't mom encourage this rather than hamper it? My s.o. is going to
> talk to her and try to work this out in a civilized manner, but I wonder if
> any of you have any suggestions about how we should approach BM? B is so
> disappointed right now.
This is ground we've gone over a lot in the past month or so here in the
newsgroup. Frustrating as it may sometimes be, most of the people who
have posted here in the past believe that one parent should not schedule
activities for the child on the other parent's time, without that parent's
support and agreement in advance.
In your case, this means no Girl Scouts and no swimming for your
stepdaughter, if the only nights these are available are Mom's nights.
Yes, she will be disappointed. Yes, she may think that it is unfair that
your daughter gets to do these things, and she does not. You just have to
explain to her in an age appropriate way that biomom decides what they
will do together on Tuesday and Thursday, and if she wants to do something
those nights, she needs to talk it out with her mom.
It may well be that her school schedule doesn't allow biomom to switch the
nights she sees her daughter. I know that I have often had classes that
run as late as 10 p.m., or that start as early as 8 a.m., which would have
a lot to do with when *I* would be willing/able to see my child!
I know that depriving your stepdaughter of these activities may not seem
like a good long term plan to you. But keeping a cordial and cooperative
relationship with biomom that respects the boundaries of everybody's
relationships is more important in the long run than whether or not your
stepdaughter gets swimming lessons this year.
Just my .02...
Sian
Daryl & Tina Williams
hears it from her daughter, it won't be so threatening. Just a suggestion.
Tina (busy mom)
Cameron 7/90 (football, baseball, judo, swimming)
Caleb 7/91 (baseball, gymnastics, swimming)
Bailey 11/97 (swimming)
Wayne wrote in message <6usbt6$lmk$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>...
>Hello everyone. This is my first time posting to this ng, but I have been
>lurking for nearly a year.
>My situation is this:
>I have been living with my s.o. for nearly two years now. I have an 8 y.o.
>daughter and he has a 6 y.o. daughter. They both live with us full-time,
>except the typical weekend visitations. The 6 y.o. (B) sees her BM every
>Tue. and Thu. after school because she lives quite near us (about 20 min.
>away).
>My d is active in Girl Scouts, taking ice skating lessons, and soon to be
>involved in a school swimming program. B, on the other hand, is not
involved
>in anything. We have registered her for Girl Scouts, and she begins this
>Thu. BM was very perturbed that we did this on her day with B. We also
>wanted to sign B up for swimming lessons to help overcome her fear of
water,
>and gymnastics because she is so agile. BM is pissed and told me today
that
>if we do sign her up for anymore activities not to do it on Tue. or Thu.
>Well, swimming is only on Tue., and she said that she would rather not have
>B involved if that were the case. She is in college (as am I), she works
>(which I also do), and she says she doesn't want to have to run B around on
>those days that she has her; she would rather we do it. Which I do not
mind
>in the least. I spend so much time with B that I love her as my own. The
>issue, in my mind, is not who will take her to these activities but that
she
>gets there. I just feel BM should be much more enthusiastic and supportive
>of her daughter's activities.
>Am I unreasonable in believing that B is a priority here? If B is excited
>to have the opportunity to participate in extracurricular activities,
>shouldn't mom encourage this rather than hamper it? My s.o. is going to
>talk to her and try to work this out in a civilized manner, but I wonder if
>any of you have any suggestions about how we should approach BM? B is so
>disappointed right now.
carol koponen
Mostly Sunny
> Am I unreasonable in believing that B is a priority here?
In my opinion, the child's visitation time with the non-custodial parent is
far more important than Girl Scouts or Swimming. Try to put yourself in the
mother's shoes -- you only see your child twice a week, there is no other
time available for you to reschedule those precious hours with your child,
and the custodial parents make other plans for your child during your
allotted time. You might say that if the NCP REALLY wanted to be with
their child, they would quit their job, etc or do what it takes to
rearrange their schedule. But you are asking too much.
I know you mean well, but please don't take this child away from the other
parent. If B is your priority, you must understand that her time spent with
her mother is in her best interests.
Wayne
October she will have B 17 out of 31 days in the month. This has nothing to
do with taking B away from her mom (how ludicrous). She does see her
daughter frequently and B really wants to do gymnastics especially. The
swimming we can cut out and work with her ourselves. She is in first grade
this year, and we had told her that when she began 1st grade we would begin
her gymnastics lessons. We think that because of the scheduling agreement,
mom should be a little more flexible and understand her daughter's desire to
be in gymnastics. We believe that she would do better spending 1/2 hour in
an activity than watching Teletubbies... If we do not infringe on mom's
time at all (Tue, Thu, and e.o. Fri) the kid will be so bored, unhappy, and
unsatisfied. Trust me, I respect BM's time with her daughter; as I said
before, we get along quite well. And it isn't like mom won't *be* with B
when she does these activities... she will be cheering her on as a spectator
as most parents do. As it is now, she has B an hour longer than previously
agreed upon. I do not believe we are being selfish or unreasonable, and I
apologize if I came off that way.
thank you for your responses...
Shannon
Mostly Sunny wrote in message ...
janelaw
I'm way too burnt out on this issue to say anything but: I agree
with everything Nancy G. said.
SoccerStepMom
>
> Please realize that the mom is not short on time with B. For instance, this
> October she will have B 17 out of 31 days in the month. This has nothing to
> do with taking B away from her mom (how ludicrous). She does see her
> daughter frequently and B really wants to do gymnastics especially. The
> swimming we can cut out and work with her ourselves. She is in first grade
> this year, and we had told her that when she began 1st grade we would begin
> her gymnastics lessons. We think that because of the scheduling agreement,
> mom should be a little more flexible and understand her daughter's desire to
> be in gymnastics. We believe that she would do better spending 1/2 hour in
> an activity than watching Teletubbies... If we do not infringe on mom's
> time at all (Tue, Thu, and e.o. Fri) the kid will be so bored, unhappy, and
> unsatisfied. Trust me, I respect BM's time with her daughter; as I said
> before, we get along quite well. And it isn't like mom won't *be* with B
> when she does these activities... she will be cheering her on as a spectator
> as most parents do. As it is now, she has B an hour longer than previously
> agreed upon. I do not believe we are being selfish or unreasonable, and I
> apologize if I came off that way.
> thank you for your responses...
> Shannon
Let me try here. I understand that you are convinced that this is the
right thing for your step-daughter. Her mother does not agree. I am a
custodial stepmother myself, and I do not agree with all the parenting
choices that the boys' mother makes. But they are her choices to make!
My husband was NCP and is now CP, and so I have lived on both sides of
this issue. And I have to say - it is not very fair of you to have made
her a promise about gymnastics lessons without getting the Mom's
concurrence. If you want to keep that promise, you need to find a place
that gives gym lessons on your schedule! And it was also unfair of you
to have signed up for Scouts on the Mom's day.
Can you put the shoe on the other foot? Would you be happy with the
amount of time the biomom has? How would you feel if she got her
daughter all excited about some weekly activity that takes place on
Wednesday nights? Wouldn't you feel she'd imposed on your space? Why
is it any different?
I know you only want what's best for the little girl, and I'm sure the
Mom does too. If B really wants to do something, she will convey that
to her Mom. Otherwise, it shows up to the Mom as really *your* interest
that she is catering to, and no one, no matter how mature, wants that.
SSM
janelaw
I pretty much agree with all the other posts. I'm just going to
try to expand on one or two points.
Wayne wrote:
>
> Please realize that the mom is not short on time with B. For instance, this
> October she will have B 17 out of 31 days in the month.
All right, now I'm confused. I thought you said that BM had SD
T/Th nights. Does she have the child on weekends, too?
> This has nothing to
> do with taking B away from her mom (how ludicrous). She does see her
> daughter frequently and B really wants to do gymnastics especially. The
> swimming we can cut out and work with her ourselves. She is in first grade
> this year, and we had told her that when she began 1st grade we would begin
> her gymnastics lessons.
This was a mistake. It seems frustrating, but if you are
co-parenting a child you just can't make commitments like this.
You have to explain that you will do everything you can but that
you are not in control of all the circumstances.
> We think that because of the scheduling agreement,
> mom should be a little more flexible and understand her daughter's desire to
> be in gymnastics.
Yes. And maybe SD can convince BM to be more flexible. That's
between the two of them. What people have been trying to tell
you is that if BM values SD's desire for gymnastics enough, then
SHE will decide it is the right thing to do during her time with
the child.
> We believe that she would do better spending 1/2 hour in
> an activity than watching Teletubbies...
See this is another one of those inescapable co-parenting
problems. We ALL disagree with the other half about some
things. Unfortunately, since we didn't have the foresight to
bite off their heads after mating, we just have to deal with
it. As many have pointed out before me, if we agreed with our
exes about everything, we'd still be with them.
> If we do not infringe on mom's
> time at all (Tue, Thu, and e.o. Fri) the kid will be so bored, unhappy, and
> unsatisfied. Trust me, I respect BM's time with her daughter; as I said
> before, we get along quite well. And it isn't like mom won't *be* with B
> when she does these activities... she will be cheering her on as a spectator
> as most parents do. As it is now, she has B an hour longer than previously
> agreed upon. I do not believe we are being selfish or unreasonable, and I
> apologize if I came off that way.
> thank you for your responses...
> Shannon
No, you're just not getting it. You see that SD needs her
relationship with BM. What you don't see is that she also needs
her perspective (which is different from yours.) If BM wants to
be a cheerleader and spectator during the time she spends with
SD, she can choose to do that herself. OTOH, BM can choose to
snuggle up and watch Teletubbies with her child. That doesn't
mean that SD is not a priority. It means that SM has different
priorities than you do. She sees SD's needs differently than
you do. You believe that SD will be bored and unhappy without
these activities. BM may believe that SD will feel insecure
without enough quiet time alone with her mom. Or she may think
that SD will be stressed out if she engages in too many
activities.
What I am trying to say is that even if you don't agree with BM
you have to give her opinion a certain level of respect.
Good Luck
Jane
Mostly Sunny
still won't bend when it comes to giving up some visitation time for her to
be involved in other extracurricular activities, there isn't a whole lot
you can do short of taking her to court to readjust her visitation
schedule. You don't want to do that, of course, so maybe her daughter can
convince her herself, somehow, to take her to these activities.
I agree that swimming and scouting is better than Teletubbies, but when
it's on biomom's dime, it's entirely up to her what she does with her
daughter during visitation hours. Whatever you do, though, don't sign her
up for these activities anyway, lest you start WWIII with the biomom (maybe
she is hoping you will do just that, for an excuse to get mad?) I can't
imagine that biomom would be resistant to her daughter's wishes just to be
difficult for your sake, although I guess I have heard worse. I would have
to agree that what daughter does during biomom's visitation's hours are
between biomom and daughter.
Maybe biomom is just flexing what control she still has? If so, it's a pity
that it is at daughter's expense. Good luck.
In article <6uttu2$aq40$1...@newssvr04-int.news.prodigy.com>, "Wayne"
Wayne
your hair out because of me. I guess I can get my mind out of la-la land
now...
Can I clarify one more thing so that you all don't think I am some evil
butt-in-SM? Regarding the scouting: we had her registered before the BM had
her schedule worked out and gave BM plenty of advance notice as to when
these meetings would occur. It really was no surprise... we discussed this
at the end of last year.
BM is not against her daughter being in activities, she is all for it. it
isn't an issue of D being *stressed*; none of us involved feel that she
would be unduly stressed by this participation. Initially, the gymnastics
issue was broached by BM. She still thinks her D should be in gymnastics
(you should see the kid, she's even built like a gymnast). That is where
part of our confusion lies... why encourage it if you aren't willing to be a
little flexible?
As for enrolling SD in any more activities, I agree now that we should work
around BM's time with her daughter. We have already prepared the daughter
that if gymnastics falls on certain days, we may have to wait a little
longer before we enroll her. I admit, it will be difficult with her gone
two days a week plus every other weekend; nonetheless, I am sure we can
manage. I really do not want to ruin the exceptionally good relationship
that we have with BM.
thanks for your patience,
Shan
MFreund
janelaw wrote:
snip, snip and more snip!
> We ALL disagree with the other half about some
> things. Unfortunately, since we didn't have the foresight to
> bite off their heads after mating ...
What a hoot! I'm sorry but that was just delicious :-) After an incredibly
stressful day (dealing with a once absentee BM who has all of a sudden decided to
become *involved* with her daughters) that brought me a MUCH needed laugh.
Thank you!
p.s.: Now I can tell DH what he forgot to do :-)
janelaw
>
> Okay, I think I finally got it. (whew) I hope too many of you did not pull
> your hair out because of me. I guess I can get my mind out of la-la land
> now...
Good work. It took me a couple of years to get it. Then I had
an epiphany. My ex called to suggest that I bring our daughter
to golf lessons. You would have to know me to fully understand
my horror. Suffice it to say I would rather watch Teletubbies.
It really clarified his perspective for me.
> snip
> As for enrolling SD in any more activities, I agree now that we should work
> around BM's time with her daughter....
> I really do not want to ruin the exceptionally good relationship
> that we have with BM.
Wise woman. If you spend any time reading this NG, then you
know what a blessing a good relationship is. You're doing a
good job.
Jane
SoccerStepMom
With your willingness to see other sides, your kids and the biomom are
lucky. Look forward to wrestling more issues with you!
SSM
(PS, since the BM *does* want her daughter to do gymnastics, then I
think she should be willing to agree to share the schedule - although we
haven't gotten there yet with the ex, except on weekends)
Wayne wrote:
>
> Okay, I think I finally got it. (whew) I hope too many of you did not pull
> your hair out because of me. I guess I can get my mind out of la-la land
> now...
> Can I clarify one more thing so that you all don't think I am some evil
> butt-in-SM? Regarding the scouting: we had her registered before the BM had
> her schedule worked out and gave BM plenty of advance notice as to when
> these meetings would occur. It really was no surprise... we discussed this
> at the end of last year.
> BM is not against her daughter being in activities, she is all for it. it
> isn't an issue of D being *stressed*; none of us involved feel that she
> would be unduly stressed by this participation. Initially, the gymnastics
> issue was broached by BM. She still thinks her D should be in gymnastics
> (you should see the kid, she's even built like a gymnast). That is where
> part of our confusion lies... why encourage it if you aren't willing to be a
> little flexible?
> As for enrolling SD in any more activities, I agree now that we should work
> around BM's time with her daughter. We have already prepared the daughter
> that if gymnastics falls on certain days, we may have to wait a little
> longer before we enroll her. I admit, it will be difficult with her gone
> two days a week plus every other weekend; nonetheless, I am sure we can
> manage. I really do not want to ruin the exceptionally good relationship
> that we have with BM.
VanEx
This is the BM's time with her daughter, let her spend time with her
instead of having to run her to practice, girl scouts, etc. You aren't
being very fair to either one of them. Besides, the child is too young
to be involved in so many things at one time.
Please don't be offended. I just know how the biomom must feel.
Wayne
VanEx wrote in message <361527...@tdi.net>...
>This is the BM's time with her daughter, let her spend time with her
>instead of having to run her to practice, girl scouts, etc. You aren't
>being very fair to either one of them.
Wayne wrote:
>>Okay, I think I finally got it. (whew) I hope too many of you did not
pull
>>your hair out because of me. I guess I can get my mind out of la-la land
>>now...
I wrote the above about three days ago... I guess you can say the issue is
resolved :)
>Besides, the child is too young
>to be involved in so many things at one time.
Please do not be offended by this, but you do not know this child to make
that assumption. Just as I cannot make assumptions about your children and
their ability to handle certain activities, neither can you about another's.
I apologize if I come across too harsh, that is not my intention. And also
realize, the mom is not against the activities themselves, but that it falls
on her time. If all the parents involved see that this child can tolerate,
quite well at that, several half hour activities a week, who are you to
judge otherwise? Again, I am sorry, but that part of your comment *really*
bothered me. As for being fair to either one of them, at this point SD is
thinking that mom isn't being very fair. Maybe we aren't being very fair to
BM, but SD has other opinions as to who is the unfair one. This issue,
however, goes further than being fair... like we tell our kids, the Fair is
in the summer. We are working to maintain a good (excellent, I should say)
relationship with BM; we had a mild brain fart and excused ourselves.
>Please don't be offended. I just know how the biomom must feel.
Other than the above, I am not offended at all. I also can understand how
the mom must feel, which is why we have changed our stance on this issue.
Everyone, for the most part, is quite happy and content at this point.
Thank you for your response.
Shannon
VanEx
Shannon,
You are right. I do not know the child well enough to decide what is
"too much" for her. I was going on my own experiences. My stepson is 5
and his mom has him in sports/beauty pageants/etc. all year around -
sometimes he's doing 2 - 3 things at a time. I just seems a bit much
for a child. The only time he gets to be a "kid" is when he's with his
father.
If your SD would really like to do these activities, I would encourage
her to talk to her mother.
Apologies given and apologies accepted.
Good Luck.
Maria