Eighteen and independent
Vicki Robinson
conspiracy to deny the fact that she's totally grownup and should be
making her own decisions 100% without any interference. I'm seriously
thinking that when she turns 18 we should just turn her loose; give
her one semester's worth of tuition (which she can do anything she
wants with, she doesn't have to go to school) and say "Write every now
and then."
I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
part-time jobs as experience. Your own story, the story of your
daughter, SD, niece, whatever. My knee-jerk reaction is that she'll
end up either a hooker or an unmarried mother on welfare, but I'd like
to know what you all think about the paths open to her.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
Wendy
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c63igo$nbi$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> DH and I have a SD who is 16, thinks that the world is in a huge
> conspiracy to deny the fact that she's totally grownup and should be
> making her own decisions 100% without any interference. I'm seriously
> thinking that when she turns 18 we should just turn her loose; give
> her one semester's worth of tuition (which she can do anything she
> wants with, she doesn't have to go to school) and say "Write every now
> and then."
>
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
> 18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
> We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
> part-time jobs as experience. Your own story, the story of your
> daughter, SD, niece, whatever. My knee-jerk reaction is that she'll
> end up either a hooker or an unmarried mother on welfare, but I'd like
> to know what you all think about the paths open to her.
Maybe she'll be like me, independent in the extreme. I drifted through
school getting Bs and Cs without any effort at all, but not really
passionate about anything. I started University at 17, having been
accelerated twice in primary, and didn't really work, changed my major twice
in three years, and then dropped out in my third year, aged 19.
I was always really independent, and I already had part time work, so it
wasn't a big leap to find more, working in shops, libraries, etc. I hated
it though, it was boring. My foks had gone to Australia for the year, so
I'd no one to fall back on. I applied for and got accepted onto a
secretarial and bookkeeping course which the government paid, rather than
having me sign on as unemployed. I then moved to London Ontario and got a
job as a secretary in the Dept of Political Science at the University of
Western Ontario. I hated secretarial work too, it was boring. They paid
for me to take some credits to finish my degree and I got As on every single
course.
Some people need to feel they are in control of their own destiny, even if
that means beating a more difficult path in life.
My Mum, on the other hand, left home at 16 because her Dad said girls didn't
need education and she could help her mother on the farm. She left and
worked doing housework for a family so she could finish her high school
diploma. Then she met my Dad during the war, got pregnant and married. It
wasn't until she had 5 children that she decided she'd do Grade 13 and a
university degree.
Don't be down hearted, I can't imagine you raising someone who ended up a
prostitute. It doesn't follow that because she won't listen that she'll
make huge mistakes, but even if she did end up walking a difficult path,
sometimes that brings the best out in people.
Wendy
Vicki Robinson
>Don't be down hearted, I can't imagine you raising someone who ended up a
>prostitute. It doesn't follow that because she won't listen that she'll
>make huge mistakes, but even if she did end up walking a difficult path,
>sometimes that brings the best out in people.
I'm not raising her. I might have her for a year, against her wishes,
which really ought to be fun.
Right now she's decided that she should move out on her own (she lives
with her grandparents right now) and collect welfare. She's confident
that this will work, in spite of the fact that her guidance counselor
has told her that she doesn't qualify for welfare. She at one time
had an ambition to be an event planner (which she'd be really good at,
I think), but recently when DH asked her what planners typically
earned said that it didn't matter because she was going to get married
and her husband would support her. She's still planning on college,
but she's enrolled in a kind of vocational track in high school,
having not done well in an academic track.
I think if she does come here, one thing she and I will do together is
research what it takes to live independently. How much does an
apartment cost in an area where you'd be safe? How much to get your
utilities hooked up? How much does second-hand furniture cost? A
car? Insurance? Registration? How much can you earn working
full-time as a restaurant server? You know, actually work it up on a
spreadsheet. At least she'll have a realistic idea about what it
takes to support yourself.
She's so *dumb*. She has this vision of a great apartment, a new car,
clothes, a boyfriend who loves her to death and begs her to marry him,
all at 17 without a high school diploma.
ni...@impactwp.com
:-) Will I do? I moved out of my parent's place before doing my A levels and
I didn't revise hardly at all. After passing my A levels at 18 I changed my
plan of spending a year out in Barcelona to move in with my boyfriend in
Nottingham. My parents were horrified. After moving there I got a minimum
wage job at a software company, and after a year of doing that and living in
relative poverty with my student boyfriend I turned down every one of the 10
university places I had been offered (including one of 10 places on a course
at Salford for which there had been more than 2500 applicants) to stay at
this job, with the boyfriend.
I spent two years working for that company, and I more than doubled my wage
while I worked there, although it was still a pittance. However I worked in
every department of the company, particularly Marketing, and I coordinated
19 exhibitions in the 24 months I was there, including a two month stay in
the States. A year into that employment I dumped the boyfriend and moved in
with a friend, in a great flat, and we had a real party lifestyle - you do
not want to know how much I was drinking a week!
I was headhunted from there to move down South when I was 20. I'd just met
Roger after being single for a year, but moved anyway, 2 hours away from
him. I didn't spend long at that company, I then moved on and had another
couple of jobs with different software companies, Roger moved in with me six
months later and we rented our first home together. I ended up in a job I
loved (I guess I was earning around 30k a year at this point - aged 22) and
got made redundant 5 days after SS moved in with us.
So I set up my own company with my 500 pound redundancy package, and it
turned over 20k that first year. Then 47k, then 97k, now it consistently
pulls in between 130k and 150k a year, 8 years later - and now it even does
that without me working!! How jammy am I?!
And, as I was 22 in 1996 when SS moved in/I started the business and joined
this group in 1998 you pretty much know the story from there on in.
HTH
Nikki
Tracey
Vicki Robinson wrote:
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
> 18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
> We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
> part-time jobs as experience. Your own story, the story of your
> daughter, SD, niece, whatever. My knee-jerk reaction is that she'll
> end up either a hooker or an unmarried mother on welfare, but I'd like
> to know what you all think about the paths open to her.
Well, I was sorta kinda that way except that I did get to live at
my parents' house (sleep there, eat there occasionally) so I wasn't
*totally* on my own. I know that's not exactly what you're talking
about.
IMO and IME, there are more paths than just hooker and unmarried
mother on welfare for her. There is the 'working two full-time jobs
just to pay the rent and put food on the table' path. There is the
'working one full-time job and spending a lot of time partying be-
cause I *can*' path. Both of those can eventually lead to the 'I
am so *sick* of this life and am going to do whatever I have to
do to not live like this the rest of my life' path. OTOH, it also
can eventually lead to the 'Everything works against me so why
even try anymore?' path.
For me, it took about five years to hit the 'I am so *sick of this
life' point. During that time, my parents did what they could (read:
wanted to) to help me. (Don't read any bitterness in that. They
did what they could/wanted to but, most importantly, *what they
thought would help get me going again.*) It was on their terms, not
mine. I could live in their house and they would feed me when I
was there. But they wouldn't have supported me financially if I
hadn't been willing to accept some of their 'rules' for living
there and wanted to live on my own. I spent five years working
at jobs that just paid enough to put a little gas in the car and
to pay for *some* necessitities. The rest was spent on having a
good time. I made decisions without their input because, well, as
an adult, I had the right to do that, ya know? And, yeah, it pissed
me off that, as adults, they could also decide not to help me out
when they didn't like the decisions I made. LOL.
I guess my point is that setting your SD free when she turns 18
is not an automatic sentence to living at the poverty level or a
life of crime and/or debauchery for the rest of her life. It's
going to be up to her.
Tracey
Deborah M Riel
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote:
>I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
>18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
>We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
>part-time jobs as experience. Your own story, the story of your
>daughter, SD, niece, whatever. My knee-jerk reaction is that she'll
>end up either a hooker or an unmarried mother on welfare, but I'd like
>to know what you all think about the paths open to her.
>
Here's mine: when I finished HS, I never wanted to set foot inside
another school, ever, ever again. That's how much I hated school at
that point. I had worked part time during HS as a waitress, and after
graduation, I went to work in factories, a bakery, then in a bank. None
of them paid more than minimum wage. They were boring, dead-end jobs. I
lived at home for a couple of reasons--I couldn't afford anything
else, I was trying to decide about the possibility of college, and I
wasn't particularly mature at that age, even though I thought I was
(like your SD).
After a year of those deadly dull, low paying jobs, I decided to give
a 2-yr college a try. It turned out to be like a lightbulb going
off--I had never experienced school in a way where I felt like a
success, and enjoyed what I was doing. I ended up in their honor
society, and after a year, I transferred and I could finally
experience school as a place that fully engaged me in learning
something that was important to me (art). I also went to secretarial school
a couple of years later, on my own, to learn something that would
guaranty me a job no matter where I was. I came to these decisions a
step at a time, and my parents never made me feel that they were
turning me loose before I was ready, even in the days when I wished they
would (your SD's age).
If my parents *had* turned me loose at 18, I wouldn't have made it--I'm
convinced. I didn't have the self-esteem, confidence, inner reliance,
whatever you want to call it, to make good choices without that safety net.
Some kids don't instantly become mature and self-sufficient at the magical
age of adulthood.
I think as parents we owe it to our children to help them into a place
where they have a chance of making it, and they don't always get there
at age 18--that's pretty young still. We all have our own pace for
growing up and if I were your DH, I'd leave a good safety net in place
while still allowing his daughter to make some of her life choices,
decisions and mistakes.
Of course, at age 18, she can choose to accept or reject whatever you
have to offer, but I guess I wouldn't make it easy on her to take the
money and run if your instincts say she's not making mature decisions.
She probably needs more time to grow up.
Deb R.
Vicki Robinson
>If my parents *had* turned me loose at 18, I wouldn't have made it--I'm
>convinced. I didn't have the self-esteem, confidence, inner reliance,
>whatever you want to call it, to make good choices without that safety net.
>Some kids don't instantly become mature and self-sufficient at the magical
>age of adulthood.
No, she *certainly* isn't ready, and won't be ready. But especially
once she's 18 she'll feel that even if she's living at our house, she
can do whatever she likes. She is implacably resistant to rules. I
won't have her living here if she wants to bring her friends home at 2
AM and do whatever she likes when she likes.
I don't want to cut her loose, but if she wants total independance,
how do we continue to help her?
She'll make terrible choices. But I don't see a way around it.
>I think as parents we owe it to our children to help them into a place
>where they have a chance of making it, and they don't always get there
>at age 18--that's pretty young still. We all have our own pace for
>growing up and if I were your DH, I'd leave a good safety net in place
>while still allowing his daughter to make some of her life choices,
>decisions and mistakes.
**HOW**!? She wants *all* of the life choices, decision and mistakes.
I'm darned if I'm going to support her and let her live here with no
responsibility.
>Of course, at age 18, she can choose to accept or reject whatever you
>have to offer, but I guess I wouldn't make it easy on her to take the
>money and run if your instincts say she's not making mature decisions.
>She probably needs more time to grow up.
But how do we stop her? How do we convince her that she doesn't know
better than everyone else in the world?
This is the crux. I'm wondering if we should home-school her through
passing the GED exam, so that she can finish high school early, then
let her work full-time and save some money while she's still under 18,
and then just let her go. That's all she wants. She rejects the
notion that she should follow anyone's rules but her own.
Deborah M Riel
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote:
>
>No, she *certainly* isn't ready, and won't be ready. But especially
>once she's 18 she'll feel that even if she's living at our house, she
>can do whatever she likes. She is implacably resistant to rules. I
>won't have her living here if she wants to bring her friends home at 2
>AM and do whatever she likes when she likes.
>
>I don't want to cut her loose, but if she wants total independance,
>how do we continue to help her?
>
>She'll make terrible choices. But I don't see a way around it.
Well, right now she's not 18. She might change by 18. Certainly, if
she's living in your house, she's going to have to have a few
rudimentary rules to follow, and a few bills to pay. It's only fair.
I guess if she turns out to be totally resistant to rules, and wants
to try it on her own, I'd leave a safety net in place that says "you
can come home if you find you can't swing it without help, but you'll
have to have a plan in place and be willing to follow a few house
rules if you do." If I were your DH, I'd let her know she still had a
home where she was welcome if things were not working as she planned.
Someplace where she could take a different direction and still save
face, in other words, if she fails on her own, don't be judgemental
about it--just encourage the next step forward.
>**HOW**!? She wants *all* of the life choices, decision and mistakes.
>I'm darned if I'm going to support her and let her live here with no
>responsibility.
At age 16, I wanted all the choices too. At age 17, when I was
finished with HS and finding out how bad the job situation was, I
started to look at different choices. By age 19, I had gone back to
school. Wait a bit and see if she starts to change her mind in the
next year or two. In the meanwhile, she's 16, not 18, and is her
father's minor child, whether she likes it or not.
>But how do we stop her? How do we convince her that she doesn't know
>better than everyone else in the world?
You probably won't convince her, but she might end up convincing
herself.
>This is the crux. I'm wondering if we should home-school her through
>passing the GED exam, so that she can finish high school early, then
>let her work full-time and save some money while she's still under 18,
>and then just let her go. That's all she wants. She rejects the
>notion that she should follow anyone's rules but her own.
It could work, if you can home-school. My son's GF does some kind of
self-motivated homeschooling plan (I've forgotten what it's called).
She plans to finish high school early, work, then go on to college.
That probably only works with a kid who can work on her own though. I
know it wouldn't work with my son. He needs more structure than that.
I guess what I'm saying is that I don't necessarily think it's a good
idea to turn her loose with her tuition money. Let her know that the
tuition money is there for her to use for *tuition* and if she wants
to live on her own, then there's a job market (such as it is). Maybe
if she had a great and wonderful business idea, you could use the
tuition money to fund that. But from what you're saying, I'd say she
sounds like a kid who needs some kind of structure in place, some kind
of plan to follow, and a place to come home to if she needs to. Maybe
it gives her something to safely rebel against without leaving her
desperate if she fails.
I like your idea of putting a plan in place where she can see exactly
what she'll need to be on her own. Actually, I think it should be a
required course for *all* high school kids to learn about checkbooks,
tax forms, bill paying, credit cards, etc. Too bad it isn't.
Deb R.
Geri and sometimes Brian
>required course for *all* high school kids to learn about checkbooks,
>tax forms, bill paying, credit cards, etc. Too bad it isn't.
It is the parents' job to teach it.
~~Geri~~
heather m.
simple without you having to do very much (the parent, that is). We used
workbooks that track everything and explain everything and if I needed help
I could get help from the school/tutors/teachers/etc. that worked at the
school that did the homeschool program. I know not everyone homeschools
this way, but I did it through a not terribly expensive private Christian
school. It was wonderful for me, I learned much, much, MUCH better that
way.
I say just go for it, but *try* to be positive about her decisions and that
you support her. You know, act like "Oh how cool you'll love being on your
own even though it's hard and you'll be poor but you can do it I believe in
you! Make sure you don't end up pregnant because then you'll be even poorer
and I don't want to see you held back!"
I say just use your common sense and good judgement when it comes to how
much you're going to help her. If she's having a hard time then she can
probably learn from her mistakes and a big reality check. If she asks for
money/support and you know she's not bleeding somewhere then don't give it
to her but help her come up with solutions to her own problems. If she IS
bleeding on the side of the street then yea I think I would help her so she
doesn't hurt herself or anyone else. It's such a tough call, but I was ALOT
like her at that age. The more my parents tried to hold me back, the more I
fought them, and eventually in the end it made everything worse than if they
had let me go. You don't have to let her go with "OK bye see ya hasta la
vista" with the attitude that you are looking down on her decisions, you can
let her go and fake a big smile and be "Alright! Go for it! Call me if you
get low on money and need suggestions on how to find a second job!"
Maybe these aren't the perfect solutions to your problem, but it's all I can
think of at the moment. Good luck :)
Heather
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c63oii$qlg$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
S&W
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
> 18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
> We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
> part-time jobs as experience.
I started to reply to this differently, but I got too depressed.
I barely graduated high school, but I did it. less than 1.0 GPA was not
uncommon for me. I was terribly truant.
I've been an unmarried teen mom; I've been on welfare for a few years out of
my life, and I have had menial jobs that amount to not much at all. I have
no degree, and I wonder if I ever will have one.
The thing is, I am very happy with my life. I've had my ups and downs;
there are some choices I would have made differently, but I'm generally
satisfied with my life.
i know that my life's path isn't one that is linked to success, and I know
I'm not a particularly successful woman when it comes to education,
employment or career. I'm sometimes embarassed about my life, and I worry
about my future. I don't know. I hope my kids don't make the same choices
I made. I don't want my kids, at age 33, to be sitting at home wondering how
much more they could have done to feel satisfied with life. It's that whole
self-actualization stuff. How much more could I have been if I had done
well in school, if I had gone to university, if I had waited longer to have
children, if only...
It can be a hard place to be-- sitting here wondering what could have been,
if only.
shay
Adrienne Winn
email you?
Adrienne
(this is me:
SD (18), SS (6), originally from Canada in a LDR with a man from Florida,
was around from 2001-2002
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:helewisa%40hotma
il.com+
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&q=author:heltownsend%40ho
tmail.com+
I haven't been posting since 2002, because I haven't had posting access,
but I've been lurking.
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c63igo$nbi$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
Wendy
"S&W" <shan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:108b1l4...@corp.supernews.com...
> The thing is, I am very happy with my life. I've had my ups and downs;
> there are some choices I would have made differently, but I'm generally
> satisfied with my life.
You are more successful than many people, Shay, if you are able to say that.
> It can be a hard place to be-- sitting here wondering what could have
been,
> if only.
You could have done it all and still not found happiness, though.
Wendy
Vicki Robinson
>It can be a hard place to be-- sitting here wondering what could have been,
>if only.
*Everyone* wonders that. Everyone has paths not taken.
If SD ends up like you, I'll be perfectly satisfied. Perfectly.
Vicki Robinson
>Vicki, I have stories to share, but I really can't make them public. Can I
>email you?
You bet. This is my real, unmunged address.
Wendy
> I'm not raising her. I might have her for a year, against her wishes,
> which really ought to be fun.
Okay, then I'd go with being a loving and supportive safety net in the event
she falls.
> Right now she's decided that she should move out on her own (she lives
> with her grandparents right now) and collect welfare. She's confident
> that this will work, in spite of the fact that her guidance counselor
> has told her that she doesn't qualify for welfare.
People buy lottery tickets here. Statistically, the probability of winning
is so minute that it seems incomprehensible why they do so. Yet if you tell
them they are wasting their money, they still buy them. It's day dreaming.
It's hot air and blather. Ignore it, or listen and offer to give her a lift
to the Social Services. Let her find out the facts for herself, instead of
raining on her parade.
She at one time
> had an ambition to be an event planner (which she'd be really good at,
> I think), but recently when DH asked her what planners typically
> earned said that it didn't matter because she was going to get married
> and her husband would support her.
My girls have said similar things, though admittedly when they were a bit
younger than 16. I know some women who married young, had children young,
have part time jobs now and get by.
Perhaps she needs the inspiration of seeing the sorts of events which she
could plan? Barclay is involved in organising all sorts of events from 3
day outdoor music festivals to regular club nights - booking djs, hiring
venues, lighting and music rigs, decor, tickets, licenses, marketing.
Over here, schools often organise work placements. Might you be able to
help her find something like that to help her see some of the opportunities
to tempt her interest?
She's still planning on college,
> but she's enrolled in a kind of vocational track in high school,
> having not done well in an academic track.
Do they do courses in event management?
> I think if she does come here, one thing she and I will do together is
> research what it takes to live independently. How much does an
> apartment cost in an area where you'd be safe? How much to get your
> utilities hooked up? How much does second-hand furniture cost? A
> car? Insurance? Registration? How much can you earn working
> full-time as a restaurant server? You know, actually work it up on a
> spreadsheet. At least she'll have a realistic idea about what it
> takes to support yourself.
Sure, all sensible stuff, but why not just try and get through the year, or
whatever period it is, getting to know each other better?
> She's so *dumb*. She has this vision of a great apartment, a new car,
> clothes, a boyfriend who loves her to death and begs her to marry him,
> all at 17 without a high school diploma.
I expect it's quite common to want life to be simple and easy.
Wendy
Rupa Bose
> I would appreciate hearing from anyone on this group stories about
> 18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
> We're talking about a high school diploma (we hope) and a series of
> part-time jobs as experience. Your own story, the story of your
> daughter, SD, niece, whatever. My knee-jerk reaction is that she'll
> end up either a hooker or an unmarried mother on welfare, but I'd like
> to know what you all think about the paths open to her.
>
> Vicki
One youngster I knew was living with her father and step-mom overseas,
visiting her mom and step-dad every summer. When she turned 13, she
decided she wanted to live in the US with her mom. Apparently the
court permitted this, so she moved -- seeing her dad every summer
instead. In the process of moving from the good private school she was
in overseas to a public school in the US, she moved up a grade. She
was under 18 when she graduated high school.
Unlike her sister, who went to a name-brand college, she decided to
work for a family as a live-in nanny to their new-born. She loves
babies, but the main attraction was the ability to move out. Last
heard from, she was planning to go to community college eventually.
I have no doubt that whatever this young woman does, she won't follow
either of the paths you fear for your SD.
Rupa
Kathy Cole
Robinson) wrote:
> This is the crux. I'm wondering if we should home-school her through
> passing the GED exam, so that she can finish high school early, then
> let her work full-time and save some money while she's still under 18,
> and then just let her go. That's all she wants. She rejects the
> notion that she should follow anyone's rules but her own.
That sounds like the best idea; at least she'll have some sense of what
it takes to make money under her belt before that 18th birthday and
walking out the door.
badgirl
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040420150116...@mb-m25.aol.com...
But there's plenty of parents out there that don't know it. There are
enough elective classes in HS that they could substitute a "life
skills" class instead. My 14YO just got finished with a 10 week life
skills class, each night they would do something different, one night
was cooking, one was balancing a checkbook and writing checks, another
night they visited an animal shelter, yet another they went and
*rented* apartments. I think those skills would be far better learned
these days than some of the other extra classes high schools have like
woodworking (which you really wouldn't even use to become a carpenter)
chorus...those sorts of things. Instead of getting to pick 2 elective
classes in say one semester of sophomore year, they could pick one and
have the life skills class instead. It's early enough that it would
catch alot of the drop outs before they did drop out and late enough
that the kids required to take it would actually understand it.
Jen
The Watsons
> But how do we stop her? How do we convince her that she doesn't know
> better than everyone else in the world?
you don't, honestly...the more you try to force it through her head, the
more resistant she's going to be...
> This is the crux. I'm wondering if we should home-school her through
> passing the GED exam, so that she can finish high school early, then
> let her work full-time and save some money while she's still under 18,
> and then just let her go. That's all she wants. She rejects the
> notion that she should follow anyone's rules but her own.
isn't there a curse that goes something like "may you have your heart's
desire"? let her experience the reality of adulthood when she hits that
age...:)
Jess
The Watsons
"Adrienne Winn" <adrien...@verizon.net> wrote in message
news:G4ghc.24606$G_.2...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> Vicki, I have stories to share, but I really can't make them public. Can I
> email you?
ditto? please?
Jess
Melissa
>clothes, a boyfriend who loves her to death and begs her to marry him,
>all at 17 without a high school diploma.
>
>Vicki
Yeah but reality should cure her of that, and fast.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
I think you knwo msot of mine by now. I moved out when I was 17 and worked
part time while finishing high school. Going to college without help proved to
be impossible but I was able to support myself working two jobs, and looking
back I wouldn't change much.
Love,
Melissa
Lori
If it were me, she'd be hearing exactly what *I* heard, even at age 18 - if
we are your financial support, then we are in charge, not you. Just being
age 18 doesn't mean one shouldn't have to deal with the fact that if they
are not capable of being fully responsible for their own support (totally -
housing, food, utilities, clothing, every need of life), or one doesn't have
someone else willing to bear the responsibility for them, then one doesn't
get to be in total charge over one's life.
Lori
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Lori
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040420150116...@mb-m25.aol.com...
I remember an episode of The Cosby Show in which the father (Cliff) did this
with his son (Theo), who was certain he could make it on his own. He asked
the kid how much he thought he'd earn in whatever job he could get. Then he
held up that much in bills, I think from a monopoly game or something.
Then, he began tasking portions away for taxes, for housing, for food, for
utilities, for clothing, etc, etc. Made a good, visual point. I also like
the spreadsheet ida someone referred to. :-)
Rupa Bose
>
> No, she *certainly* isn't ready, and won't be ready. But especially
> once she's 18 she'll feel that even if she's living at our house, she
> can do whatever she likes. She is implacably resistant to rules. I
> won't have her living here if she wants to bring her friends home at 2
> AM and do whatever she likes when she likes.
>
> I don't want to cut her loose, but if she wants total independance,
> how do we continue to help her?
>
> She'll make terrible choices. But I don't see a way around it.
May I suggest: relax?
She's 16. She will very likely be different when she's 17 and 18. One
of my kids told me that all teens spend a year hating their parents.
Say no, and hang onto your sense of humor with both hands. (Easier, of
course, said than done. Even easier advised than followed ones'self.)
Then she'll hate you for not taking her seriously. Relax. She'll grow
out of it...
I remember, as a young teen, hatching elaborate detailed plans for
running away from home and living independently. Never actually did
anything remotely resembling that, but the *idea* of independence was
very tempting.
Rupa
Rupa Bose
>
> This is the crux. I'm wondering if we should home-school her through
> passing the GED exam, so that she can finish high school early, then
> let her work full-time and save some money while she's still under 18,
> and then just let her go. That's all she wants. She rejects the
> notion that she should follow anyone's rules but her own.
>
Well, if she's not listening to your rules, your chances of actually
home-schooling her would, I would guess, be somewhat slender.
I think I'm hearing a young, nearly fledged bird flapping its wings
frantically as it tries them out. Makes it uncomfortable for everyone
else in the nest. But in the end, the wings are strong enough, and do
fly.
Rupa
Vicki Robinson
>If it were me, she'd be hearing exactly what *I* heard, even at age 18 - if
>we are your financial support, then we are in charge, not you. Just being
>age 18 doesn't mean one shouldn't have to deal with the fact that if they
>are not capable of being fully responsible for their own support (totally -
>housing, food, utilities, clothing, every need of life), or one doesn't have
>someone else willing to bear the responsibility for them, then one doesn't
>get to be in total charge over one's life.
So then what? Pile her clothes on the lawn and change the locks? I
can say "As long as you live in my house..." all I want. But if her
response is "Yeah? Fuck you." When **what do I do**? Physical
restraints?
I'm afraid that my choices will boil down to letting her live with us
and watching her do whatever she wants because I would have to
literally tie her down otherwise, or to throw her out and let her sink
or swim, and I'm afraid she'd sink.
Vicki Robinson
You don't have to ask. By posting on Usenet, one is inviting mailed
responses, and the address you see on my posts is my real address. I
don't munge, we have good spam filters.
Vicki Robinson
>> She'll make terrible choices. But I don't see a way around it.
>
>May I suggest: relax?
Probably the best response.
My husband says that he's not going to force her to come here "against
their wishes". "Their?" The grandparents, who have said to us that
they can't manage her anymore, they're too old, their blood pressures
are suffering. The biomom, who allowed her to go to the gps in the
first place because she and SD were crossing swords constantly, and
who needs to think of the younger SD who has health issues that are
exacerbated by having her older sister around. So, what's the
alternative, then? Neither the gps or the biomom can take her, so why
is there any question, even? Why are they saying "No, she'll never
go" when there seems to be no viable alternative?
>She's 16. She will very likely be different when she's 17 and 18. One
>of my kids told me that all teens spend a year hating their parents.
Hating is one thing, but mostly they toe the line more or less, while
plotting their eventual revenge.
>Say no, and hang onto your sense of humor with both hands. (Easier, of
>course, said than done. Even easier advised than followed ones'self.)
>Then she'll hate you for not taking her seriously. Relax. She'll grow
>out of it...
All of these things don't worry me. It's the doing exactly what she
wants no matter what that scares me. And I resent the fact that we're
going to have to hire a housekeeper for a half-day every day because
we can't let her be here alone for three hours a day. We know this
because, when her gps let her come home from school to an empty house,
she abused the privilege in a serious way.
>I remember, as a young teen, hatching elaborate detailed plans for
>running away from home and living independently. Never actually did
>anything remotely resembling that, but the *idea* of independence was
>very tempting.
Who didn't? But to insist that those plans are reasonable and
achieveable is something else.
Sigh.
The Watsons
> In a previous article, "The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> said:
>
> >
> >"Adrienne Winn" <adrien...@verizon.net> wrote in message
> >news:G4ghc.24606$G_.2...@nwrddc02.gnilink.net...
> >> Vicki, I have stories to share, but I really can't make them public.
Can I
> >> email you?
> >
> >ditto? please?
>
> You don't have to ask. By posting on Usenet, one is inviting mailed
> responses, and the address you see on my posts is my real address. I
> don't munge, we have good spam filters.
still polite to ask, i think...:)
Jess
Deborah M Riel
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote:
>I'm afraid that my choices will boil down to letting her live with us
>and watching her do whatever she wants because I would have to
>literally tie her down otherwise, or to throw her out and let her sink
>or swim, and I'm afraid she'd sink.
How about a few rudimentary rules, and a cell phone for keeping in
touch? Just the basic non-negotiable rules, maybe (for example)
you have to be either working or in school
no smoking (anything) or drinking in the house
be in by x:00 on school nights, x:00 on weekends
no boyfriend overnights
call when your plans change, and be reachable by cell phone
Maybe these basic few rules can be negotiated with her input.
These are similar to the basic rules that my son has, and I *try* to
be flexible with minor infractions. I'm trying to give him more freedom
and do less prying, worrying and nagging, thanks to recent discussions in
this ng.
I understand your worry about the situation, though. If I all of a
sudden took custody of my son instead of having lived with him for 17
years, it would be a huge disruption and a steep learning curve.
Do you remember awhile back when I had my son's 16yr old friend who
was a runaway living with me for a short time? Well, I finally had to
give her up to the courts because of a warrant out on her. She ran
away when she was done with the detention center, and lived off and on
with her boyfriend's family. She again stayed at my house once or twice,
but I gave her my house rules--she had to be working or in school, and
actively trying to work things out with her family. I guess she
didn't like those rules and didn't come back to my house. I've heard,
though, that now she's been back home for quite awhile, and is working
on her GED.
Kids change a lot between say, 16, and 18 or 19. Sometimes they get
sick of the bad choices they've made, and as long as they have a place
to go back to they don't get stuck in those bad choices.
Deb R.
Nell
> So then what? Pile her clothes on the lawn and change the locks? I
> can say "As long as you live in my house..." all I want. But if her
> response is "Yeah? Fuck you." When **what do I do**? Physical
> restraints?
You already know that my SD came to this exact same point in her life
where she was impossible to live with. We finally gave her the choice -
stay with our rules or leave. She chose to leave. Of course, at that
point she was 18. The years leading up to that were hell for us - and
probably for her, too. The law here is very grey on what is legal and
what's not in the 16-18 year age period. The parent seems to have very
few rights, but even those are not clear, so the bottom line is we had
to suck it up and do the best we could. We tried to reason with her, be
sure she knew we cared about her, reminded her almost constantly of the
dangers she was exposing herself to and kept doing this over and over.
> I'm afraid that my choices will boil down to letting her live with us
> and watching her do whatever she wants because I would have to
> literally tie her down otherwise, or to throw her out and let her sink
> or swim, and I'm afraid she'd sink.
>
The one thing we did not do, and I regret it now, is penalize her for
her behaviour. We used grounding and it absolutely did not work. She
would thumb her noses at us (actually she used a different finger) and
go out whenever she liked and for as long as she liked. What we should
have done was to remove privileges other than going out - like phone,
television, computer, etc. I heard Dr. Phil say once that if his kids
had done to him what other kids do to their parents, they would have
been down to sleeping on a bare mattress. We should have gone that
route. It might not have made a difference, but we'll never know now.
Someone I know had a similarly destructive daughter at 14 and they had
to lock her in her room. She would get out the window. They barred the
window and she would take the hinges off the door, etc. etc. Sometimes
there's just no saving someone from themselves.
I see you also have a post about having to hire someone during the day
to stay with this girl. That would absolutely piss me off, if I were in
your shoes. Before doing the hiring, though, I would make sure the girl
knew (and this is my hindsight speaking) that anything she does will be
met with a similar response which will negatively affect her quality of
life.
And finally, if you could get the girl to go to therapy somehow, it
might be worth while. Sounds like she's very angry. My SD admitted when
she came back home that she had been angry for years - mostly about her
mother abandoning them. This girl may have similar issues (mother
pushing her off on the Gp's). How you get her to a counsellor is
another story, though. Our SD absolutely refused to go, said if we made
her she'd sit there and say nothing. I realize now that was her way of
saying "I'll never say yes, but I would go if you made me." Sigh.
Hindsight is a helluva thing.
Anyway, I know how frustrating this all must be for you. And scary. And
a PITA if the truth be known.
Norma
The Watsons
> My husband says that he's not going to force her to come here "against
> their wishes". "Their?" The grandparents, who have said to us that
> they can't manage her anymore, they're too old, their blood pressures
> are suffering. The biomom, who allowed her to go to the gps in the
> first place because she and SD were crossing swords constantly, and
> who needs to think of the younger SD who has health issues that are
> exacerbated by having her older sister around. So, what's the
> alternative, then? Neither the gps or the biomom can take her, so why
> is there any question, even? Why are they saying "No, she'll never
> go" when there seems to be no viable alternative?
*snerks* she'll go when they've had their fill and change the locks and call
dad..:)
> Hating is one thing, but mostly they toe the line more or less, while
> plotting their eventual revenge.
you've known some different teens than i did...:)
> All of these things don't worry me. It's the doing exactly what she
> wants no matter what that scares me. And I resent the fact that we're
> going to have to hire a housekeeper for a half-day every day because
> we can't let her be here alone for three hours a day. We know this
> because, when her gps let her come home from school to an empty house,
> she abused the privilege in a serious way.
after school job and don't give her house keys? or does she already know how
to pop a window? :)
> Who didn't? But to insist that those plans are reasonable and
> achieveable is something else.
*shrugs* that'll change too...:) nothing like a cold splash of reality for
that...:) it'll be ok, promise...:)
Jess
Deborah M Riel
Nell <ne...@fritzy.ca> wrote:
>The one thing we did not do, and I regret it now, is penalize her for
>her behaviour. We used grounding and it absolutely did not work. She
>would thumb her noses at us (actually she used a different finger) and
>go out whenever she liked and for as long as she liked. What we should
>have done was to remove privileges other than going out - like phone,
>television, computer, etc. I heard Dr. Phil say once that if his kids
>had done to him what other kids do to their parents, they would have
>been down to sleeping on a bare mattress. We should have gone that
>route. It might not have made a difference, but we'll never know now.
>
>Someone I know had a similarly destructive daughter at 14 and they had
>to lock her in her room. She would get out the window. They barred the
>window and she would take the hinges off the door, etc. etc. Sometimes
>there's just no saving someone from themselves.
>
>Norma
Vicki, if your SD is like what Norma is describing, here's a book that
might have some helpful information:
The Defiant Child: A Parent's Guide to Oppositional Defiant Disorder
by Douglas A. Riley
I have it, and have read it, but I think the problems being addressed
were more extreme that what I'm dealing with so far with my son. You
may find at least some of it helpful.
Deb R.
Vicki Robinson
>How about a few rudimentary rules, and a cell phone for keeping in
>touch? Just the basic non-negotiable rules, maybe (for example)
>
>you have to be either working or in school
>no smoking (anything) or drinking in the house
>be in by x:00 on school nights, x:00 on weekends
>no boyfriend overnights
>call when your plans change, and be reachable by cell phone
These are her GPs rules, too, and she more or less abides by them,
always looking for ways to evade them so that she won't get caught.
One of the **big** problems that I see is that she can't work. She's
not American, and will be here on a student visa, which won't allow
her to work. So I can't insist that she get a job *unless* the school
requires it for her academic track. That might be a very good thing
for her, and I'll say for her that she's never been afraid to work.
She's made her own money for a very long time, and doesn't complain
about it.
Another thing is that she wants to drive, and she loves her cell
phone. We got both my kids cars at 16 with the understanding that
those are *our* cars, used by them at our pleasure. They can be
yanked because we feel like it. Cell phones similarly. Those two
things can be **powerful** hooks. One of my everlasting annoyances is
that the gps don't use the cell phone as a tool; they take it away,
but they end up giving it back to her way too soon in my estimation.
Maybe we can make a truce. I have always advocated a contract,
something that the gps have never done, but her school counselor
thinks it would be a good tool. They won't let her sulk in her room,
I will require it. They let her have a computer (internet connected)
in her room, we won't.
And it's only for a year. I can do almost anything for a year.
Wendy
> So then what? Pile her clothes on the lawn and change the locks? I
> can say "As long as you live in my house..." all I want. But if her
> response is "Yeah? Fuck you." When **what do I do**? Physical
> restraints?
>
> I'm afraid that my choices will boil down to letting her live with us
> and watching her do whatever she wants because I would have to
> literally tie her down otherwise, or to throw her out and let her sink
> or swim, and I'm afraid she'd sink.
Why are you doing this, Vicki? Did the GPs ask you and it's a favour to
them, or her mother? Or is this something that you offered to do, because
you didn't want to see her go into an institution or onto the street?
Apologies if you've posted this already
Wendy
Vicki Robinson
>Why are you doing this, Vicki? Did the GPs ask you and it's a favour to
>them, or her mother? Or is this something that you offered to do, because
>you didn't want to see her go into an institution or onto the street?
The GPs say that they are too old for this crap, and they are. They
raised their kids. If this child were behaving herself, it would
work, but they're getting calls from the school, they're dealing with
garbage all the time.
The biomom doesn't want her back (they argue constantly) and the
younger sister has health issues that are complicated by having her
sister around. So, for her sake, the biomom is out.
That leaves her father. I think that's right, proper and appropriate.
I just have to figure out how to do it.
badgirl
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
> I just have to figure out how to do it.
>
> Vicki
Why do YOU have to figure it out?
Seems to me this would be her fathers problem not yours. If you had
raised this child from babyhood and already had developed a parental
role/relationship with her then ok, I can see how you might feel
responsible to deal with this. But from what I'm reading (and of
course I may be wrong) you're looking at starting fresh with this kid
at 16YO. Boy that would have pissed me off royally if either one of my
SM's had jumped into my life (because I went to live with Dad, not
because SM was a new wife) and tried to make rules and set boundaries
for me. This is your DH's problem, not yours, set boundaries for
yourself (i.e. don't get into my shit, no banging around at 3 in the
morning because I have to work tomorrow etc) but as far as the rules
she needs to live by, let your DH deal with that and be the *bad guy*.
Jen
*who may have misinterpreted the situation entirely*
Vicki Robinson
>Why do YOU have to figure it out?
Because someone has to.
>Seems to me this would be her fathers problem not yours. If you had
You'd think so.
>raised this child from babyhood and already had developed a parental
>role/relationship with her then ok, I can see how you might feel
>responsible to deal with this. But from what I'm reading (and of
>course I may be wrong) you're looking at starting fresh with this kid
>at 16YO. Boy that would have pissed me off royally if either one of my
>SM's had jumped into my life (because I went to live with Dad, not
>because SM was a new wife) and tried to make rules and set boundaries
>for me. This is your DH's problem, not yours, set boundaries for
>yourself (i.e. don't get into my shit, no banging around at 3 in the
>morning because I have to work tomorrow etc) but as far as the rules
>she needs to live by, let your DH deal with that and be the *bad guy*.
DH has two modes when it comes to dealing with tough situations.
Withdrawal and studious avoidance is Mode 1. Shouting is Mode 2.
Neither one will work.
I told him that he was the default, that he was the parenting first
line, and he made a "Yikes!" face and said "I'll do what I can."
Um.
And he's a contractor at his job. Not a regular employee. They can
let him go with 24 hours notice and with no explanation. I am a
tenured professor, I have to kill a student on camera to get fired.
So guess who would find it easier to say "I'm going to out for a
half-day tomorrow, gotta go talk to the principal"?
badgirl
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c66faa$6gs$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> In a previous article, "badgirl" <chgobadgi...@comcast.net>
said:
>
> >Why do YOU have to figure it out?
>
> Because someone has to.
I know ;( Sorry you're getting stuck with the job though. Sounds like
it's gonna be a rough one.
>
> >Seems to me this would be her fathers problem not yours. If you had
>
> You'd think so.
(between you and me and the lamp post, I can't believe I even spoke up
considering what I'm going through here with BM and Tootsie and all
that lately...I've wanted to scream *THIS IS NOT MY JOB FOR CRIPES
SAKE!! but it wouldn't do a damn bit of good though)
>
> >raised this child from babyhood and already had developed a
parental
> >role/relationship with her then ok, I can see how you might feel
> >responsible to deal with this. But from what I'm reading (and of
> >course I may be wrong) you're looking at starting fresh with this
kid
> >at 16YO. Boy that would have pissed me off royally if either one of
my
> >SM's had jumped into my life (because I went to live with Dad, not
> >because SM was a new wife) and tried to make rules and set
boundaries
> >for me. This is your DH's problem, not yours, set boundaries for
> >yourself (i.e. don't get into my shit, no banging around at 3 in
the
> >morning because I have to work tomorrow etc) but as far as the
rules
> >she needs to live by, let your DH deal with that and be the *bad
guy*.
>
> DH has two modes when it comes to dealing with tough situations.
> Withdrawal and studious avoidance is Mode 1. Shouting is Mode 2.
> Neither one will work.
My DH is the same way. It makes me INSANE!! I swear I could be
swinging a rusty nail studded baseball bat at his head over this crap,
but unless someone is gonna come put him in a straight jacket, pry his
eyes open and bolt his ass to the chair in the room whatever the
latest is going on in, he refuses to get *involved*.
Then the screaming at BM happens and we all know that after the first
3 word sentance they both stop listening and are just in a *who can be
the loudest/most vulgar* contest. It's stupid.
>
> I told him that he was the default, that he was the parenting first
> line, and he made a "Yikes!" face and said "I'll do what I can."
>
> Um.
*snort*
Yep, ok Buddy, you CAN deal with your daughter when she is stuck at
the police station at 3 a.m., you CAN pay the ticket and lawyer costs
she racks up when she gets caught doing something stupid and gets
arrested etc etc
>
> And he's a contractor at his job. Not a regular employee. They can
> let him go with 24 hours notice and with no explanation. I am a
> tenured professor, I have to kill a student on camera to get fired.
> So guess who would find it easier to say "I'm going to out for a
> half-day tomorrow, gotta go talk to the principal"?
I guess. It still sucks though. Sorry you got stuck with it.
Jen
Vicki Robinson
>> DH has two modes when it comes to dealing with tough situations.
>> Withdrawal and studious avoidance is Mode 1. Shouting is Mode 2.
>> Neither one will work.
>
>My DH is the same way. It makes me INSANE!! I swear I could be
>swinging a rusty nail studded baseball bat at his head over this crap,
>but unless someone is gonna come put him in a straight jacket, pry his
>eyes open and bolt his ass to the chair in the room whatever the
>latest is going on in, he refuses to get *involved*.
No, he'll get involved. His heart is mostly in the right place, and
fer sher he'll be the one going down to the police station and
calling the lawyer. I'm not worried about that at all. He'll handle
it. It's the planning ahead that bothers me.
As an example, his younger daughter is very distractable. When she
was four she made a total shambles of our family room with toys. OK,
fine, she's four. He told her to pick everything up. And then *he
left the room*. When he came back she was playing with a Barbie that
she'd picked up to put away but had started playing with instead. He
went ballistic. I told him that she was FOUR, for Pete's sake, and
with a four-year-old you say "You gather up all the Barbie clothes now
and put them in this box." and you watch, or you join in. Then you
say "Now, all the stuffed animals go into this big toybox." And so
on. You don't tell a very distractable four-year-old "Pick all this
up" when there are a billion small things scattered around. But this
was news to him, it never occured to him that a four-year-old couldn't
handle that.
He thinks you should be able to tell a kid to do things, and that kid
should do them. Anything else is abnormal. (That's the way he was as
a boy, but there were reasons for that that I won't go into here.)
He's at a loss at what to do if the Plan A (Tell The Kid What To Do)
fails. He has no Plan B, or he has no faith in his own Plan B.
I'm not sure I'm explaining this right. But if I show him how to set
things up, he'll be the enforcer without any qualms.
I'm just panicking. It won't be so bad.
Deborah M Riel
Vicki Robinson <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote:
>DH has two modes when it comes to dealing with tough situations.
>Withdrawal and studious avoidance is Mode 1. Shouting is Mode 2.
>Neither one will work.
>
>I told him that he was the default, that he was the parenting first
>line, and he made a "Yikes!" face and said "I'll do what I can."
OK, then, it's a steep learning curve all around. But that doesn't
mean he can't learn too. Maybe some counseling with him (before she
comes to live with you) might help define your roles.
>And he's a contractor at his job. Not a regular employee. They can
>let him go with 24 hours notice and with no explanation. I am a
>tenured professor, I have to kill a student on camera to get fired.
>So guess who would find it easier to say "I'm going to out for a
>half-day tomorrow, gotta go talk to the principal"?
>
Realistically, most of us aren't tenured professors, yet we find a way
to deal with our kids when we have to. Most of us don't get fired for
doing it. He can still handle the action, Vicki, and when he really,
really is in danger of being fired for dealing with a (still
hypothetical) family problem, then you can share those duties with him
as necessary.
Deb R.
rebecca
>
> I'm just panicking. It won't be so bad.
>
> Vicki
um, yeah. That's the ticket. God's paying you back for the child that
slept through the night rightaway. No, just kidding. Listen, plan,
prepare, and expect adjustments. Seems like I've heard that around here
once or twice. And make sure that you and DH keep talking, or he'll be dead
within a month.
And it's a year. You can do a year. But what happens if she doesn't leave?
My little brother's 28, and my dad just can't seem to kick him loose.
rebecca
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>My little brother's 28, and my dad just can't seem to kick him loose.
Your Dad's not his stepdad. SD's out of here the Labor Day after she
turns 18, or I am.
Anne
WhansaMi
a high school drop-out and eeking out a subsistance level living on my own. I
worked at a series of jobs (from slinging hash, to retail, to a factory job
packaging belts) before I got my GED at 20 and started college.
I was much more committed to educating myself once I'd gotten a taste of what
life was like without an education.
She might never decide to go to regular college, but she might end up either
taking classes or appreticing in a vocational area. She might find some
entreprenuerial spirit and start selling stuff on EBay (don't ask!). Or, yes,
she might end up with three kids, no husband, and on welfare.
Whatever she does, she'll have to find it within herself.
Sheila
Melissa
>Why do YOU have to figure it out?
I agree with Jen on this. I'm thinking about Anne and her letting go of a
bunch of things. You might want to consider right up front what you can let
go, even if DH isn't handling it in the way you would want.
Love,
Melissa
rebecca
or something (-: Congrats, how are you all doing?
Yeah, he's not the stepdad, but as I just got a new stepmom, it will be
interesting what happens to him. Grapevine says her 25YO still lives at
home too. That'll be fun for everyone, won't it?
rebecca
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:t8td80pc9647kmfhp...@4ax.com...
Geri and sometimes Brian
>or something (-: Congrats, how are you all doing?
I take it the baby was born?
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Vicki Robinson
I am, I am. My bottom line is that she will not ruin Laura's senior
year of high school. That's where I draw the line. (To mix
metaphors.) If she ends up pregnant, she's going home to Mom.
Period. (Although, unlike her grandmother, I will **happily** take
her for birth control. Her mother has already approved this in
concept, and we get along pretty well, so I don't think it would be
problematic.)
And I told DH that we could unload her suitcases, and then we're all
off to the family therapist. Laura looked alarmed, and I told her
that she had to go at first (it's *family* therapy) but we could
reevaluate that later on. He agreed.
So, I think we we'll live through this.
Anne Robotti
sometimes Brian) wrote:
>>Robotti, what the hell are you doing here? Go take a pain pill, or sleep,
>>or something (-: Congrats, how are you all doing?
>
>I take it the baby was born?
Yes, Anna Grace Robotti was born Sunday morning at 5:30am. Seven
pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
turns 2, I promise.
Anne
Vicki Robinson
That's good. You know how much Geri loves birth stories.
Deborah M Riel
Anne Robotti <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote:
>Yes, Anna Grace Robotti was born Sunday morning at 5:30am. Seven
>pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
>turns 2, I promise.
>
>Anne
Congratulations, Anne! Actually this is a pretty funny post, given
the subject line of "eighteen and independent." :-) Planning ahead?
Deb R.
badgirl
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:el9e80h12nrkbdeji...@4ax.com...
Congratulations Anne! ;)
Now get your behind back to bed and REST! ;)
Jen
Michelle Geary
Congratulations! But the real question is -- how long did it take this
time? Are we talking taxicab birth or not?
Michelle
Lori
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040420234436...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> >She's so *dumb*. She has this vision of a great apartment, a new car,
> >clothes, a boyfriend who loves her to death and begs her to marry him,
> >all at 17 without a high school diploma.
> >
> >Vicki
>
> Yeah but reality should cure her of that, and fast.
> Love,
> Melissa
Sure would! :-)
Lori
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Lori
> In a previous article, "Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> said:
>
> >If it were me, she'd be hearing exactly what *I* heard, even at age 18 -
if
> >we are your financial support, then we are in charge, not you. Just
being
> >age 18 doesn't mean one shouldn't have to deal with the fact that if they
> >are not capable of being fully responsible for their own support
(totally -
> >housing, food, utilities, clothing, every need of life), or one doesn't
have
> >someone else willing to bear the responsibility for them, then one
doesn't
> >get to be in total charge over one's life.
>
> So then what? Pile her clothes on the lawn and change the locks? I
> can say "As long as you live in my house..." all I want. But if her
> response is "Yeah? Fuck you." When **what do I do**? Physical
> restraints?
>
No, you do the first thing you said - she moves out. I'm just saying that
even at 18, if we want the freedom to run our life, we should also be
willing to take the responsibility. In my case, from the time I graduated
high school I paid a percentage of what i made to my parents , plus I was to
be responsible for specific portions of the housework, etc. I was pretty
much free to run my life, with the exception that I wasn't to just be gone
all night, there were to be no overnight guests of the opposite gender,
things like that. it was not unreasonable in any way.
> I'm afraid that my choices will boil down to letting her live with us
> and watching her do whatever she wants because I would have to
> literally tie her down otherwise, or to throw her out and let her sink
> or swim, and I'm afraid she'd sink.
>
> Vicki
She very well might! However, sometimes we have a responsibility to allow
them to stand or fall on their own choices. I can tell you that my parents
consistently bailed out both of my younger brothers, both of whom have very
messed up lives now, one of whom to this day (and he's over 40) believes
nothing is ever the fault of his own choices, it's everyone else, etc. In
my case, I can count on one hand and have fingers left over the times I went
to my parents for help. and in fact, at one point, I did move home, for a
while.But, I was still expected to bear my share of the household load, and
still expected to abide by house rules. IMO, if you feel you are too
"adult" to have to do that, then you are too "adult" to be allowed to live
home with the parents. If you want to be treated as a free adult, act like
one. If you want to be taken care of by your parents, expect to be treated
as if you are still a child. Simple. I say let a child who will not abilde
by these things stand or fall on her own choices, and she has no need to
know that you will be there if she really messes up, at least to councel and
emotionally support her.
Lori
> In a previous article, dr...@wpi.edu (Deborah M Riel) said:
>
> >How about a few rudimentary rules, and a cell phone for keeping in
> >touch? Just the basic non-negotiable rules, maybe (for example)
> >
> >you have to be either working or in school
> >no smoking (anything) or drinking in the house
> >be in by x:00 on school nights, x:00 on weekends
> >no boyfriend overnights
> >call when your plans change, and be reachable by cell phone
>
> These are her GPs rules, too, and she more or less abides by them,
> always looking for ways to evade them so that she won't get caught.
> One of the **big** problems that I see is that she can't work. She's
> not American, and will be here on a student visa, which won't allow
> her to work. So I can't insist that she get a job *unless* the school
> requires it for her academic track. That might be a very good thing
> for her, and I'll say for her that she's never been afraid to work.
> She's made her own money for a very long time, and doesn't complain
> about it.
>
maybe she can't get an outside job, but she can work in the home. she can
shoulder a larger portion of housework than what might be required if she
were working and schooling. If she's not out working, there's freed up time
to keep up the house. At the time i moved home I couldn't work due to
health problems (was having unexplained blackout spells, was finally tracked
to the thyroid much later), so, as I couldn't contribute financially for a
time, it was my responsibility to do the basic housework, things like dust,
vacuum, dishes, laundry, etc. Major cleans were always a joint thing,
everyone who lived in the home. My parents contributed the finances, i
contributed the housework. Certainly far from unfair.
lori
Lori
"badgirl" <chgobadgi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:6Zyhc.30898$hw5.48238@attbi_s53...
See, I see it as this is not just *dad's* house, it's Vicki's house, too,
and as such she has the right to insist on rules, etc.
Lori
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The Watsons
> Yes, Anna Grace Robotti was born Sunday morning at 5:30am. Seven
> pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
> turns 2, I promise.
congrats...:D i'm sending some ice cream your direction, but you Have to eat
it in bed...:p
Jess
jane
>18-year-olds, girls in particular, making their own ways in the world.
K.
When I turned 18, I was in my 2nd semester of college. 7 Sisters. Dean's
List.
It bothered me a lot that I had no clue what I should major in and also that I
could not remember life without school. So, I dropped out of school, moved to
Hollywood, and got a job at an insurance company. It was a lot of fun.
My father didn't speak to me for years, but I didn't really care because I knew
that if he were speaking to me he would be telling me everything I was doing
wrong. Eventually, LA and the insurance company gig got old, and I went back to
college.
jane
Geri and sometimes Brian
>pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
>turns 2, I promise.
Congrats! Pretty name!
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
jane
>where they have a chance of making it, and they don't always get there
>at age 18--that's pretty young still.
This is such a foreign concept to me. I left home when I was 16. I look at
Lee, and I'd miss her if she left now, but I'd be confident that she'd be fine.
Really, I see the next year or two as gravy.
>We all have our own pace for
>growing up and if I were your DH, I'd leave a good safety net in place
>while still allowing his daughter to make some of her life choices,
>decisions and mistakes.
I'm with you on that.
jane
>Deb R.
Rupa Bose
> Yes, Anna Grace Robotti was born Sunday morning at 5:30am. Seven
> pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
> turns 2, I promise.
>
> Anne
Congratulations!
Rupa
Wendy
> Yes, Anna Grace Robotti was born Sunday morning at 5:30am. Seven
> pounds eight ounces, mom and baby fine. Birth story before the baby
> turns 2, I promise.
Congratulations.
Wendy
Amy Lou
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com>
>
> I'm just panicking. It won't be so bad.
Im sure your right. If it helps to hear yet another story here is the
simplest version I can make out of my SD's story:
At age 16 SD and her mum were at constant odds with each other. SD finished
school at age 16 and tried to please her mum by doing a waitressing course.
As expected even that was too hard for her. She flunked out (although we are
sure she gave it her best shot - she just didn't have the ability or
maturity to complete the tasks and understand the questions). She ended up
getting promoted (if that is the right word) from being a part time burger
flipper to a full time one. Luckily she had that part time job for a while
so she already had a 'foot in the door'.
Meanwhile SD and mum battled every day about rules (when she had to be home,
if BF could stay over, etc etc). SD desperately wanted to leave home - it
was the only option she could see for her happiness. SD talked to my DH
about it regularly and he gave her the talk many times about how you must
stick it out till you are at least 17 before you leave. I think this gave
her a goal, a date that would soon approach, something to hang on.
As soon as she turned 17 she moved out (we had given her the option of
moving in with us but that would have meant leaving all her friends so that
was out). She moved in with her BF (who was and has been for the majority of
his adult life unemployed). SD soon became the breadwinner come housewife
come babysitter (for friends babies).
It may not have been the life her parents would have chose for her but it
was and is the life SD wanted and loves.
She is fast approaching 21, still at the fast food chain, still supporting
the BF (who finally seems to be getting interested in being employed), still
enjoying having her own home to run. She has been very sensible in regard to
birth control and seems to have a plan about not having kids for quite some
time. Most of her friends have kids so we think this is some achievement!
SD is now engaged and encouraging BF to get full time employment. They seem
to have a plan about both working, saving as much as they can, getting
married and buying a house, paying off as much as they can before even
thinking about having babies.
Years ago we were very disappointed in SD. We thought she would have a
hopeless life because of the choices she made. She proved us all wrong. Even
though we still wish she had more going for her we see that she is happy and
content with the life she has picked for herself.
HTH
Amy
Rupa Bose
> These are her GPs rules, too, and she more or less abides by them,
> always looking for ways to evade them so that she won't get caught.
> One of the **big** problems that I see is that she can't work. She's
> not American, and will be here on a student visa, which won't allow
> her to work. So I can't insist that she get a job *unless* the school
> requires it for her academic track. That might be a very good thing
> for her, and I'll say for her that she's never been afraid to work.
> She's made her own money for a very long time, and doesn't complain
> about it.
Which nationality is she? Any chance of involving her in an exchange
program to her native country? Or is the objective for her to become a
US citizen?
> Another thing is that she wants to drive, and she loves her cell
> phone. We got both my kids cars at 16 with the understanding that
> those are *our* cars, used by them at our pleasure. They can be
> yanked because we feel like it. Cell phones similarly. Those two
> things can be **powerful** hooks. One of my everlasting annoyances is
> that the gps don't use the cell phone as a tool; they take it away,
> but they end up giving it back to her way too soon in my estimation.
>
> Maybe we can make a truce. I have always advocated a contract,
> something that the gps have never done, but her school counselor
> thinks it would be a good tool. They won't let her sulk in her room,
> I will require it. They let her have a computer (internet connected)
> in her room, we won't.
>
> And it's only for a year. I can do almost anything for a year.
>
What happens when the year is up?
Rupa
Rupa Bose
>
> The GPs say that they are too old for this crap, and they are. They
> raised their kids. If this child were behaving herself, it would
> work, but they're getting calls from the school, they're dealing with
> garbage all the time.
>
> The biomom doesn't want her back (they argue constantly) and the
> younger sister has health issues that are complicated by having her
> sister around. So, for her sake, the biomom is out.
>
> That leaves her father. I think that's right, proper and appropriate.
> I just have to figure out how to do it.
>
> Vicki
It's wonderful that you are taking her on.
I can't help feeling sorry for the poor kid. It must be really tough
to know that your mother doesn't want you, your grandparents are too
old to deal with you, and when you go to live with your Dad, it's
because he has to take you in and your stepmom has a sense of duty. I
can see why she may fantasize about being independent and convince
herself that her fantasies are real.
What would happen if you supported her in everything she does? Tell
her the pros and cons, tell her you won't help her break the law, and
that you'll be there for her if she needs you.
If she's on a student visa, she can't move out and become independent,
can she? What kind of visa will she get when she stops going to
school? Won't she have to either get a job where they'll sponsor her
for a work visa, or return to her home country?
Rupa
ni...@impactwp.com
Funny I was explaining a similar thing to my DH the other night. He seems to
think it's his right to support SS for as long as he needs to. I said fine,
just as long as that doesn't mean him actually living here. Apparently, at
least for DH, SS going to live with his Mom after he turns 18 is an option,
so I breathed a HUGE sigh of relief. Not that his Mom is going to be
interested in having him for a second, she's got her new family unit that
doesn't include SS - did I mention all three of them went on holiday without
SS recently? Cosy.
Nikki
Anne Robotti
<chgobadgi...@comcast.net> wrote:
>Congratulations Anne! ;)
>Now get your behind back to bed and REST! ;)
>
>Jen
I can't. I don't know if anybody else has four kids, but the
post-partum contractions have been just as bad as labor, and I'm out
of Motrin or at least I can't find it. I'm spending most of my time
hunched over praying to die, waiting for Eckerd's to open.
Anne
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>Congratulations! But the real question is -- how long did it take this
>time? Are we talking taxicab birth or not?
Actually this one was almost four hours!
I thought my water broke at 1:30, but it was blood, not water. The
doctor said to come into the hospital so we *wouldn't* have a taxicab
birth. He broke my water at about 2:15, and at 3:30 the contractions
were hard enough that I got an epidural. By 5:15 I was pushing, and
she was born at 5:30 on the nose.
The weirdest part of the whole thing is that she's a girl. When Chuck
said, "It's a girl" I was thinking, "My son's a girl? What are you
talking about?"
Anne
Amy Lou
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10826209...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> "Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
> news:t8td80pc9647kmfhp...@4ax.com...
> > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:46:19 GMT, "rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com>
> > wrote:
> >
> >
> > >My little brother's 28, and my dad just can't seem to kick him loose.
> >
> > Your Dad's not his stepdad. SD's out of here the Labor Day after she
> > turns 18, or I am.
> >
> > Anne
>
> Funny I was explaining a similar thing to my DH the other night.
Are you guys joking? Its hard to tell. Is it the norm for people to leave
home after they turn 18? Over here I think its not that common. People are
more likely to be feeling that 21 is a good age to be out on their own.
I think I would feel devastated if DH told me that he needs my son to move
out as soon as he hits 18. I think my son is going to be ready to move out
on his own - that's not the problem. Its just that it would be hurtful to
have it demanded by the SP.
Amy
Vicki Robinson
>Which nationality is she? Any chance of involving her in an exchange
>program to her native country? Or is the objective for her to become a
>US citizen?
She's Canadian. I think my DH should sponsor her for permanent
residency; that doens't mean she has to stay in the US if she decides
to go home again, but it would loosen up the restrictions while she
was here, and give her choices for after graduation.
>> And it's only for a year. I can do almost anything for a year.
>
>What happens when the year is up?
She'll have a high school diploma and be nearly 18. She can go to
work, we can send her to college or some kind of post-secondary
program, but she doesn't have to do it in our home.
Vicki Robinson
>I can't help feeling sorry for the poor kid. It must be really tough
>to know that your mother doesn't want you, your grandparents are too
>old to deal with you, and when you go to live with your Dad, it's
>because he has to take you in and your stepmom has a sense of duty. I
>can see why she may fantasize about being independent and convince
>herself that her fantasies are real.
Yes. Yes, but... It puzzles me that she can't see that all of this
is a consequence of her own behavior. It's not *her* that the parents
and gps don't want, it's her defiant and destructive behavior. If she
wasn't on her sister's back **CONSTANTLY** about everything, she could
go back to her mom's house. If she went to school, came home, did her
homework, went to her job and socialized in a safe way with kids who
weren't heavy drinkers and druggies, her gps would be *fine* with
having her there. They love her, but the worry and arguing are what
they can't take anymore.
>What would happen if you supported her in everything she does? Tell
>her the pros and cons, tell her you won't help her break the law, and
>that you'll be there for her if she needs you.
Because it would bring the school authorities down on me ("Do you
realize that Xxxxx hasn't been in school for a week?"). I don't want
to come home from work to find her in bed with her boyfriend and
joints still smoldering in ashtrays. I don't want to worry about her
getting caught up in a raid at a party and being charged with
possession just because she was there.
I can support her in her choice of school tracks, her desire to have a
paying job and her wanting to socialize. But her choices in so many
other areas are not only immature, they're self-destructive and
destructive of my home and potentially destructive of my own daughter.
>If she's on a student visa, she can't move out and become independent,
>can she? What kind of visa will she get when she stops going to
>school? Won't she have to either get a job where they'll sponsor her
>for a work visa, or return to her home country?
She wouldn't be able to work *here*, but she can go back to Canada and
work once she's 18. Once she stops going to school, she'll be here on
a tourist visa and, as far as I'm concerned, that means she's headed
north.
Vicki Robinson
Except that right now she's 16. I'm not worried about what to do
after she's 18, but it's the time between now and then that's worrying
me. She can't move out, she can't sign a binding contract; no one
will rent to her. I can't let her stand or fall by her own choices,
legally (if she's with us) we are responsible for her actions. She's
not 18. That's the problem.
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>Are you guys joking? Its hard to tell. Is it the norm for people to leave
>home after they turn 18? Over here I think its not that common. People are
>more likely to be feeling that 21 is a good age to be out on their own.
Are *you* joking? In my house I decide what's a good age for me to
support people until.
>
>I think I would feel devastated if DH told me that he needs my son to move
>out as soon as he hits 18. I think my son is going to be ready to move out
>on his own - that's not the problem. Its just that it would be hurtful to
>have it demanded by the SP.
Well, if your son is being helpful around the house, taking
responsibility for his actions, generally avoiding being a giant pain
in the ass, then great. Let him stay as long as he wants. My SD is
adding stress to my life every day, and my DH knew when she moved in
that I'd put up with it for exactly four years and not a second
longer. My compromise on the situation is to allow her to move in and
be helpful and supportive for the time she's here. His is to kick her
out after that.
Anne
Melissa
>interesting what happens to him. Grapevine says her 25YO still lives at
>home too. That'll be fun for everyone, won't it?
>
>rebecca
>
Wow.
Love,
Melissa
Vicki Robinson
>Are you guys joking? Its hard to tell. Is it the norm for people to leave
>home after they turn 18? Over here I think its not that common. People are
>more likely to be feeling that 21 is a good age to be out on their own.
As far as I'm concerned it all depends on the kid. Is s/he respectful
and contributing to family life? Then stay. Is s/he causing upset
and damage and high blood pressure? Then go away. Who needs it?
>I think I would feel devastated if DH told me that he needs my son to move
>out as soon as he hits 18. I think my son is going to be ready to move out
>on his own - that's not the problem. Its just that it would be hurtful to
>have it demanded by the SP.
Is he making the SP's life hell? If so, then why should the SP put up
with that in his or her own home? Kids are *meant* to grow up and
move out. Their parents' home is *not* their permanent home. The SP
has every expectation to have the quiet enjoyment of his/her own
home. If there's another adult there who's making that enjoyment
impossible, then that other adult should go make trouble elsewhere.
Vicki Robinson
>>I think as parents we owe it to our children to help them into a place
>>where they have a chance of making it, and they don't always get there
>>at age 18--that's pretty young still.
>
>This is such a foreign concept to me. I left home when I was 16. I look at
>Lee, and I'd miss her if she left now, but I'd be confident that she'd be fine.
> Really, I see the next year or two as gravy.
Is she hanging around with drinkers and druggies? Has she been caught
with pot? Is she having sex with her boyfriend after school in his
empty house?
And where do 16-year-olds live? They can't sign leases, and flipping
burgers won't pay for an apartment anyway, not if they want to eat,
too.
ni...@impactwp.com
"Amy Lou" <amyl...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:MFMhc.12346$V_3....@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
>
> <ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
> news:10826209...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> > "Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
> > news:t8td80pc9647kmfhp...@4ax.com...
> > > On Wed, 21 Apr 2004 21:46:19 GMT, "rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com>
> > > wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > > >My little brother's 28, and my dad just can't seem to kick him loose.
> > >
> > > Your Dad's not his stepdad. SD's out of here the Labor Day after she
> > > turns 18, or I am.
> > >
> > > Anne
> >
> > Funny I was explaining a similar thing to my DH the other night.
>
> Are you guys joking? Its hard to tell. Is it the norm for people to leave
> home after they turn 18? Over here I think its not that common. People are
> more likely to be feeling that 21 is a good age to be out on their own.
I'm not joking. I'm not sure what's the 'norm' really. I had '18' in my head
as the time when he would go to university. But, that's never going to
happen now, so I don't see why I've got to suck it up until he's 21 or 23
when he finally decides to sort his life out. I have a problem with him
being here indefinitely. While I wouldn't kick him out the day after his
18th birthday I want to know that we're moving towards when he leaves - yes
I do.
>
> I think I would feel devastated if DH told me that he needs my son to move
> out as soon as he hits 18. I think my son is going to be ready to move out
> on his own - that's not the problem. Its just that it would be hurtful to
> have it demanded by the SP.
I totally agree. I'm sure it is hurtful to my DH. But tough shit. You know
some of the stuff I've been through Amy, right? I became a full time
stepmother at the age of *22* to a kid with serious behavioural problems.
Too right I want it fucking over. I've done 8 years now. He's 14.5. If he's
not on a path to independence we're going to have some major problems.
Nikki
>
> Amy
>
>
jane
>with pot? Is she having sex with her boyfriend after school in his
>empty house?
Yes, no, no. I'm sure some of Lee's friends drink and smoke pot. I can't
really drum up all that much concern. After all, some of my friends drink and
smoke pot. Some of her relatives drink and smoke pot. Some of her teachers
drink and smoke pot. It doesn't make my heart race. Nor does sex.
>
>And where do 16-year-olds live? They can't sign leases, and flipping
>burgers won't pay for an apartment anyway, not if they want to eat,
>too.
You know, I think they can sign leases. Realistically, finding a lessor who'll
rent to them is difficult. IME they live in roommate situations with teens
over 18. Flipping burgers won't pay for much, but it will support a single
young person.
jane
>
>Vicki
Vicki Robinson
>Yes, no, no. I'm sure some of Lee's friends drink and smoke pot. I can't
>really drum up all that much concern. After all, some of my friends drink and
>smoke pot. Some of her relatives drink and smoke pot. Some of her teachers
>drink and smoke pot. It doesn't make my heart race. Nor does sex.
It does for me when the people in question are 16. (And I worry about
the drug laws in New York, they're draconian, AND if she's caught with
drugs here she'll be deported and put on a list of undesirable aliens,
but that's another thing.) Anyway, I get a very different feeling for
a bunch of 16 - 21 year-olds getting together to drink than I get from
an adult party where alcohol may be part of the party, but it's not
the *purpose*. (Yes, I'm aware that adults also get together for the
purpose of getting drunk, and I wouldn't go to those parties either.)
And sex does for two reasons. One, babies and disease. Those things
can be more or less controlled. Two, reputation. Now, SD says that
girls don't get reputations anymore, that's old stuff, and at the same
time she was devastated when a boy in her school told everyone about
a sexual act they performed. Yet, she tells me that boys don't talk.
It's the inconsistency that's killing me, I think.
jane
>I made. I don't want my kids, at age 33, to be sitting at home wondering how
>much more they could have done to feel satisfied with life.
See, I don't think that has anything to do with the specifics of what you have
done in your life. Whatever side of the fork you choose, you miss out on the
other. By 40 (maybe you're precocious) you can't help feeling that you missed
out on a whole totally different life. And you did. So did Julia Roberts.
If going over stuff and looking at the choices you made and their consequences
helps you figure out what you want to add to or subtract from your life now,
I'm all for it.
>shay
jane
The Watsons
> It does for me when the people in question are 16. (And I worry about
> the drug laws in New York, they're draconian, AND if she's caught with
> drugs here she'll be deported and put on a list of undesirable aliens,
> but that's another thing.)
wait a minute-this is your DH's daughter, correct? isn't your DH a citizen?
Jess
Vicki Robinson
No.
Vicki Robinson
>In a previous article, "The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> said:
>
>>wait a minute-this is your DH's daughter, correct? isn't your DH a citizen?
>
>No.
That's the short answer, the longer answer is that he's Canadian, and
the SDs are Romanian. It's a very long story; in fact his adoption of
them (with his ex) just became final two weeks ago. Yes. Don't ask.
The Watsons
> Actually this one was almost four hours!
>
> I thought my water broke at 1:30, but it was blood, not water. The
> doctor said to come into the hospital so we *wouldn't* have a taxicab
> birth. He broke my water at about 2:15, and at 3:30 the contractions
> were hard enough that I got an epidural. By 5:15 I was pushing, and
> she was born at 5:30 on the nose.
>
> The weirdest part of the whole thing is that she's a girl. When Chuck
> said, "It's a girl" I was thinking, "My son's a girl? What are you
> talking about?"
that's great...:D congrats...:)
*giggles*
Jess
The Watsons
> I can't. I don't know if anybody else has four kids, but the
> post-partum contractions have been just as bad as labor, and I'm out
> of Motrin or at least I can't find it. I'm spending most of my time
> hunched over praying to die, waiting for Eckerd's to open.
can't the doc give you anything so you're not so miserable?
Jess
The Watsons
> >wait a minute-this is your DH's daughter, correct? isn't your DH a
citizen?
> No.
erm?
Jess
Anne Robotti
But surely a few nights of loud rowdy sex between Dad & SM would have
everybody packing their bags, wouldn't it?
Anne
The Watsons
> That's the short answer, the longer answer is that he's Canadian, and
> the SDs are Romanian. It's a very long story; in fact his adoption of
> them (with his ex) just became final two weeks ago. Yes. Don't ask.
i won't...:)
she's 16? so is it too late for him to do the citizenship app?
Jess
Vicki Robinson
>she's 16? so is it too late for him to do the citizenship app?
>
I'm not sure what you mean. He's a permanent resident alien. He can
sponsor any of his immediate relatives for permanent residency status.
There is no age limit. He doesn't have to be a citizen to do that.
And he is eligible to apply for citizenship himself, he just hasn't
gotten around to it.
Lots of red tape and lots of money, but it's not complicated. It's
tedious, and we have to promise to support her and prove that we can,
but none of that would be a problem.
The Watsons
> But surely a few nights of loud rowdy sex between Dad & SM would have
> everybody packing their bags, wouldn't it?
better make it on the kitchen table where she can catch ya'll, just to be
sure...
or you could always go au naturel after the shower; seeing hanging baskets
would send me running like my backside was on fire and my hair was
catching....
Jess
The Watsons
> I'm not sure what you mean. He's a permanent resident alien. He can
> sponsor any of his immediate relatives for permanent residency status.
> There is no age limit. He doesn't have to be a citizen to do that.
> And he is eligible to apply for citizenship himself, he just hasn't
> gotten around to it.
that helps-didn't understand that he wasn't a citizen...:)
> Lots of red tape and lots of money, but it's not complicated. It's
> tedious, and we have to promise to support her and prove that we can,
> but none of that would be a problem.
now that she's adopted, why not petition for citizenship for both of them?
that might give ya'll something to work with.....
Jess
Vicki Robinson
>now that she's adopted, why not petition for citizenship for both of them?
>that might give ya'll something to work with.....
Not everyone wants to become an American citizen, you know.
Canadians, on the whole, kind of like being Canadian.
jane
>is a consequence of her own behavior.
Does it help that I don't see it as a consequence of her own behavior either?
>I don't want
>to come home from work to find her in bed with her boyfriend and
>joints still smoldering in ashtrays. I don't want to worry about her
>getting caught up in a raid at a party and being charged with
>possession just because she was there.
Vicki, I've been having a hard time figuring out what to say to you about this.
Confronting the reality as you prepare yourself for the challenge is all well
and good. I want to be supportive of your visualizing potential problems and
beginning to solve them ahead of time. OTOH, I'm getting anxious waiting for
you to stop borrowing trouble and slide into that confident acceptance that it
will all work out find in the long run. I'm impatient for you to drop the
reins here and accept the reality that huge chunks of what you're worried about
is completely beyond your control.
See, I know that you'll be fine. Of course you don't want to walk into an
orgy, but if you do, you'll handle it with grace and integrity. The party raid
thing is just nuts. However, if it did happen, she'd be deported and you'd be
off the hook.
>I can support her in her choice of school tracks, her desire to have a
>paying job and her wanting to socialize. But her choices in so many
>other areas are not only immature, they're self-destructive and
>destructive of my home and potentially destructive of my own daughter.
You know the other thread about August going to court? Something she said
reminded me of this. You can figure this out so that every eventuality is
covered and you, DH, BM, GPs, and all the girls are totally clear on
everything. You can negotiate an arrangement that everyone agrees on. I
guarantee you will all be surprised and see things differently once you are
living it. That's what I didn't understand when I went through this. That's
what I wish someone could have explained to me.
Try to come at this with a little zen. Yes, there will be challenges for all
of you, but those challenges are potential for growth and success. You will
find many things that you cannot change, and they will help you see what you
can change. And all that other zenny stuff. I keep telling Anne to look at
this stuff as a high-growth experience, and she just swears at me. But really,
if I skip into a year of discovery I do much better than when I psych myself up
to fight a year of misery.
You can help this girl in a limited way. You'll figure out how. And it will be
good for you. You will know yourself better and like yourself better when it
is over. It's an adventure.
jane
jane
>
>Vicki
Ooh, tell her about that glucose water thing. That seemed so bizarre.
jane
The Watsons
> Not everyone wants to become an American citizen, you know.
> Canadians, on the whole, kind of like being Canadian.
ok..:)
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>the drug laws in New York, they're draconian, AND if she's caught with
>drugs here she'll be deported and put on a list of undesirable aliens,
>but that's another thing.)
Wow, I wish Kallyfohniah had that law.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Geri and sometimes Brian
What about it?
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!