Need advice
Mike & Peg
as to how to handle the situation. Here goes....
I have an 11 year old step son who is interested in living with us full
time. His mother takes excellent care of him, however, her new husband is
very emotionally abusive towards him. She has even made comments to his
grandmother (my husband's mom) that she has asked/told her husband to leave
him alone on several occassions.
Now, here's the problem....my husband has finally (after 8 yrs) gotten to
the point where he can talk to his ex wife without arguing. When it comes
to visits, they get along fine and my relationship with her is positive as
well. I can't say that we're all great friends or anything, but we do talk
to eachother respectfully and come to agreements with things. We are
concerned about talking to her about the situation at their home as it may
make her feel cornered and ultimately she would shorten visits again (this
summer is the first time we've had more than a weekend visit).
Each time she would be upset with my husband about something, the visits
would cease, or she would only allow a 1 or 2 day visit. Now, we live 4
hours away from my step son, so having a weekend visit really sucks cuz we
end up spending Fri & Sun on the road transporting him back and forth. So,
needless to say, we want to keep our relationship with her as it is now.
My step son is the one who initially brought up the subject, and continues
to talk about it each time he visits us. Each time he mentions it we tell
him that he needs to talk to his mom about it. However, he's only 11 and I
don't think he's emotionally strong enough to handle that conversation. He
also has a 1/2 sibling that he is concerned about leaving as he doesn't feel
she is safe around his step dad.
How do we handle this situation? Should we just continue with telling him
that he needs to talk to his mom or should we take that initiative and risk
losing visits again? I am very familiar with the social service agencies
here and I know that we wouldn't be able to get them involved based on the
emotional abuse part, so that's out of the question. Hiring an attorney and
fighting custody is out of the question as well, as we don't have the money
to do that. I love my step son dearly and have no reservations about him
living with us but I'm not sure what else to do.
Sorry so long...
Pugg
It sounds to me like your instincts about what might happen if you bring the
subject up to the mom are correct. I wouldn't chance it. If, without being
on really good terms, your husband approached his ex with this, I don't
think anything good would come of it.
Having a twelve year old myself, I wonder if he might be exagerating a bit.
Maybe he doesn't want to talk to his mom because he doensn't really feel
that strong about moving. It might be his way of getting attention for
something that obviously bothers him. Sometimes kids in divorced families
play on the other parent (the one they are with at the time)this way.
I'm not saying this is the case, only that you should consider it if it
"fits" with your experience. I'd wait a while. By twelve, the child should
definately be old enough to talk to his mom. I would keep encouraging him
to do so. Maybe you could tell him not to mention the moving part, but tell
him how important it is that he talk about it so his mom can work on the
problem. By twelve, he would have more say in where he lives, also. (I
don't really know very much about the legal stuff here, this is only what
I've heard.)
It sounds like the boy's mom talked to the grandma about this problem. They
must be on better terms than your husband is. See if the grandma can
approach the mom, perhaps have her suggest counseling, etc. Maybe grandma
can ask her if the boy has ever mentioned living with his dad, and maybe she
should ask her child about it.
I hope you continue to be there for this child, as it sounds like you do.
But if you don't want to get involved with lawyers and such, I really doubt
you can do much more.
Here's another idea. How about if the dad goes to the mom and suggests that
she get some counseling for the boy, as he appears to be having some
problems. This issue would probably come up in counseling, and the mom
would have to deal with it. Hopefully, if she cares for him like you say,
she will try to the best by him.
Maria
Mike & Peg wrote in message <6r7543$r9f$1...@news3.mr.net>...
Dean Barker
>
> I have a question that I'm sure other's have deal with and need some advice
> as to how to handle the situation. Here goes....
>
> I have an 11 year old step son who is interested in living with us full
> time. His mother takes excellent care of him, however, her new husband is
> very emotionally abusive towards him. She has even made comments to his
> him alone on several occassions.
1) Giving the child the idea that he has the power to
determine where he lives is dangerous. Children should
never be aware that they have that power. All you are
doing is trying to cause problems at home with mom &
stepdad. Believe me, I'm living it. The child's
home was already destroyed once by parents divorcing,
now you are trying to destroy the home he has left
by giving him ideas that he has power.
2) Emotionally abusive??? Is that like when stepdad tells
him that he will be responsible for clearing the table
after supper and he will not be able to play with his
friends until that is done? I know if you introduced
that term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally
abusive" too. No kid LIKES to be told to do a chore, but
you teach responsibility. What else could you possibly
mean by "emotionally abusive"?
-Dean
Vicki Robinson
>2) Emotionally abusive??? Is that like when stepdad tells
>him that he will be responsible for clearing the table
>after supper and he will not be able to play with his
>friends until that is done? I know if you introduced
>that term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally
>abusive" too. No kid LIKES to be told to do a chore, but
>you teach responsibility. What else could you possibly
>mean by "emotionally abusive"?
Did I miss something in the original post? I didn't perceive any description
of the "emotional abuse," so I have no idea what the poster meant by that.
However, are you serious when you ask what else could possibly be meant by
"emotionally abusive?"
"You little fag, you're worthless."
"Stupid little shit, you'll never learn anything."
"I wish you'd never been born."
"You have ruined my life."
"I wish you were dead."
"Some day I'm going to kill myself and it'll be your fault."
"Do you believe how dumb this kid is?"
Maybe it's this kind of thing the original poster meant. Perhaps you don't
consider this abusive. Most people do.
Vicki
--
Vicki Robinson
<blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
</a> and sign my guest book. Millions have!
Mike & Peg
him is that he needs to make a decision and discuss it with his mother and
if she agrees, then he could come and stay with us. He is well aware of
that.
As for the emotional abuse part, we have never introduced that term to him,
or even suggested that we are concerned about what goes on in his home. He
has described several situations that suggest emotional abuse, such as -
constantly being called names - which has been witnessed by other adults,
step dad putting down my husband (a man he's never met), telling step son
that he's no good, basically everything that ss does is wrong in step dads
eyes. He even got a stereo for Christmas last year and step dad won't let
him listen to it...get that...he get's the kid a stereo, but won't let him
use it???? All of these examples are things that were witnessed by other
adults and/or confirmed by his bio mom.
Ss was a very stable boy prior to step dad moving in with them, now he cries
easily...he has no problems doing chores and following rules, but I'm sure
that there has been the occassional non compliance on his part, even with
that scenerio it's no reason to constantly put down the kid.
Mike & Peg
Mike & Peg
Mike & Peg
Wakanyeja Makah
>1) Giving the child the idea that he has the power to
>determine where he lives is dangerous. Children should
>never be aware that they have that power. All you are
>doing is trying to cause problems at home with mom &
>stepdad. Believe me, I'm living it. The child's
>home was already destroyed once by parents divorcing,
>now you are trying to destroy the home he has left
>by giving him ideas that he has power.
Excuse me? Our nine year old son (my stepson) knows perfectly well that
when he reaches 14 (in Indiana) he is welcome to move to our home if that
is what he chooses to do. This child has been dragged from home to home
and state to state by a mother who refuses to hold gainful employment or
put his best interest first. The only close relationships and friends he
has are in OUR neighborhood, because he has not been permitted to live in
any other neighborhood long enough to form significant bonds. It isn't a
matter of "giving a child power"...it is a matter of letting the child know
that he is loved and wanted at his home with his father and that if he
should choose in the future to have stability in his life that it will
always be available.
>2) Emotionally abusive??? Is that like when stepdad tells
>him that he will be responsible for clearing the table
>after supper and he will not be able to play with his
>friends until that is done? I know if you introduced
>that term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally
>abusive" too. No kid LIKES to be told to do a chore, but
>you teach responsibility. What else could you possibly
>mean by "emotionally abusive"?
What else indeed (and I confess that I know none of the particulars about
this case).
Emotional abuse might mean that the step-father tells him how damn
worthless he is...or how he is nothing but an obstacle between the man and
his new wife.
Emotional abuse might mean that he berates the boy or constantly belittles
him.
Emotional abuse may mean that he just doesn't care about the boy and
doesn't put the child's best interests first.
There is a HUGE difference between emotional abuse and "teaching someone
responsibility" or asking someone to do a chore.
Some stepmothers and stepfathers are wonderful. Some aren't. I have a
wonderful relationship with my 9 year old stepson. I have a co-worker (who
is a stepmother as well) that states to her stepson's face what a *pain*
he is and how that she wishes he wouldn't come in the summer to disrupt her
life (and the child is only ten). It is a sad situation. When I try to
talk to her she only says that every time she looks at the child she is
reminded that her husband was once with someone else. To me, that is
emotionally abusive.
W. Makah
>-Dean
Mike & Peg
keep getting posted until I notice it and happen to delete it.
Sorry for the repeat posts...
Mike & Peg
Telewriter
can decide which parent he/she wants to live with. This may help your
stepson -- if he understands that he has a legal right to choose, he may
feel somehow protected (not that I have faith in our legal system, but
that's another story). Anyway.... if he isn't too far from his 12th birthday
AND if he is in no immediate danger, maybe you can spend this interim time
helping him, or at least encouraging him, to write something on paper -- it
will help him clarify his thoughts -- sort of a pro and con list for him, of
all the aspects of this potential move. You and your husband can sit down
with him, and discuss and work through, point by point, any fears or
conflicts he has.
If he is in danger, emotionally, physically or otherwise, I would get him
out NOW -- try to get the biomother to sign a temporary change of residency
agreement -- we were advised by a lawyer to do this, we did it ourselves --
not in the best of circumstances, as you'll read later in this email, but we
did it and it is legal.
My stepson asked to live with us when he was 14. His biomother stonewalled
the request for 8 months.
We ended up having to rescue him from her and her boyfriend -- he attacked
my stepson.
Those 8 months that he had to wait were extremely damaging to him, he got in
with a not-so-great crowd, etc. His biomother was neglecting him and
ignoring him, and our weekend visits just weren't enough -- nor were the
phone calls back and forth.
So -- if you really feel he is in danger, you may want to opt for the legal
route and force the issue. Better he go through the difficulties of the
legal process for a short time, than to suffer for years later because he
had to wait till the age of 12 -- assuming his biomom "lets him go". I
should add that my husband and his ex have joint custody, with my husband
having residential custody. It goes without saying you need to check the
laws in your state.
By the way, biomom here only signed the temporary change of residence paper
when forced to due to us needing to register stepson in school (her whole
bit was that she didn't care if he lived with us instead of her, she wanted
child support anyway -- Yeah, RIGHT!!).
Good luck.....I've been there and it's not a lot of fun. But it does sound
as if your hearts are in the right place -- hopefully that will be enough to
guide you through this and the biomom won't be impossible.
SoccerStepMom
>
> On Mon, 17 Aug 1998 14:57:10 -0500, Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> wrote:
>
> >1) Giving the child the idea that he has the power to
> >determine where he lives is dangerous. Children should
> >never be aware that they have that power. All you are
> >doing is trying to cause problems at home with mom &
> >stepdad. Believe me, I'm living it. The child's
> >home was already destroyed once by parents divorcing,
> >now you are trying to destroy the home he has left
> >by giving him ideas that he has power.
>
> Excuse me? Our nine year old son (my stepson) knows perfectly well that
> when he reaches 14 (in Indiana) he is welcome to move to our home if that
> is what he chooses to do. This child has been dragged from home to home
> and state to state by a mother who refuses to hold gainful employment or
> put his best interest first. The only close relationships and friends he
> has are in OUR neighborhood, because he has not been permitted to live in
> any other neighborhood long enough to form significant bonds. It isn't a
> matter of "giving a child power"...it is a matter of letting the child know
> that he is loved and wanted at his home with his father and that if he
> should choose in the future to have stability in his life that it will
> always be available.
With all due respect, while I understand your motives and agree that the
situation your SS is in sounds terrible, you are absolutely interfering
with his relationship with his Mom. No question about it. You are
lobbying him to decide to live with you. You may be justified in so
doing, but don't fool yourself.
My husband's ex does the same thing. Horrified that she lost custody
and genuinely missing her kids, she constantly lobbies the boys to come
live with her. Daddy has me, she argues, while Mommy has nobody. She
even told the older son that all he has to do is tell the police that
Daddy abused him and he can move in with her right away (he is 11, and
the age of decision here is also 14).
Upon hearing this, my hubby handed the boy the phone and said, "go ahead
and call". Son broke into tears and said, "I can't! It's not true, and
you're my Dad!" Nice Mom to put her kid in such a position where he
feels he is responsible for choosing between his parents. Sheesh! I'm
not sure if I hope he figures out what a manipulative bitch she is, or
if I hope he never figures it out and saves himself the heartache.
SSM
Rob, Leslie & Spotty
> >him that he will be responsible for clearing the table
> >after supper and he will not be able to play with his
> >friends until that is done? I know if you introduced
> >that term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally
> >abusive" too. No kid LIKES to be told to do a chore, but
> >you teach responsibility. What else could you possibly
> >mean by "emotionally abusive"?
Sorry...I'm going to piggy-back on Vicki's post because I didn't get the
original.
Are you really serious, Dean? Do you really believe that children percieve
being told to clear the table to be emotional abuse? Perhaps you should
have a talk with your kids if they do...about what real abuse is. Unless,
of course, you get them to do it by saying, "Clear the table, you God
damned, good for nothing kid. You don't do anything else around here.
You're useless...all of you damned kids are useless!"? Because that's how
my father put it. It didn't matter that, between my two older brothers and
I, we came home from school to vaccuum the carpets, mow the lawn (at least
once a week), help him fix a car or two, wash and dry all the dishes and
make dinner (and would be washing and drying the dishes again as soon as
they were all off the table). And that's not even what I consider to be
some of his more abusive comments!
My father called me a slut and a whore and a tramp from the time I was nine
years old. Every other kid was wearing makeup and in place of telling me
not to wear makeup (and my father had very definite ways of enforcing these
things, but it was more fun for him not to), he took great pride in
announcing in front of everybody that my blue eyeshadow made my eyes look
"just like a baboon's asshole."
They didn't have the term "emotionally abusive" back then (at least not
that I ever heard) but I assure you my brothers and I were aware that my
father was abusing us. Kids don't need to be given names and titles to
understand that being told to clear the table is a pain in the ass and
being told that you're useless and stupid and a whore is abuse. My mother
insists that we don't know what we're talking about...we always had food on
the table and a roof over our heads and proper medical care. My father
never gave us bruises or broken arms or black eyes, so when we look back at
our childhood and say that we were abused we're just being ungrateful and
ridiculous and blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
If an eleven year old is complaining about emotional abuse and wanting to
move out of his mother's home, he's probably telling the truth. Even I, as
a child, had the house picked out that my mother and I would move into when
she finally left my father. I would have killed to be able to get out of
that house!
Sorry...I realize that this is not about me and my past, but this is a
subject that I feel *very* strongly about!
lil
Dean Barker
>
> In a previous article, Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> said:
>
> >2) Emotionally abusive??? Is that like when stepdad tells
> >him that he will be responsible for clearing the table
> >after supper and he will not be able to play with his
> >friends until that is done? I know if you introduced
> >that term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally
> >abusive" too. No kid LIKES to be told to do a chore, but
> >you teach responsibility. What else could you possibly
> >mean by "emotionally abusive"?
>
> of the "emotional abuse," so I have no idea what the poster meant by that.
> However, are you serious when you ask what else could possibly be meant by
> "emotionally abusive?"
>
> "You little fag, you're worthless."
>
> "Stupid little shit, you'll never learn anything."
>
> "I wish you'd never been born."
>
> "You have ruined my life."
>
> "I wish you were dead."
>
> "Some day I'm going to kill myself and it'll be your fault."
>
> "Do you believe how dumb this kid is?"
>
> Maybe it's this kind of thing the original poster meant. Perhaps you don't
> consider this abusive. Most people do.
Those are not the words the original poster used, and although those
statements are horrible I would not send in social services to take the
boy away from his parents either. I would not use any of those
statements,
they would not fit in to the Christian home we are raising our kids in,
however, at times it does not hurt to point out to the kids when they
are acting like a brat or like a baby. Lowering their emotional highs at
times is better than cockiness and big-headedness that kids get when
they
always get their way.
-Dean
carol koponen
Dean Barker
>
> Are you really serious, Dean?
Yes.
> Do you really believe that children percieve
> being told to clear the table to be emotional abuse?
No, that is not what I said. I said that if you introduced that
term to my 12 yo SS he would think I was "emotionally abusive"
whenever I told him to clear the table, or clean up his room,
or wipe up the water on the bathroom floor after his shower.
> Perhaps you should
> have a talk with your kids if they do...about what real abuse is. Unless,
> of course, you get them to do it by saying, "Clear the table, you God
> damned, good for nothing kid. You don't do anything else around here.
> You're useless...all of you damned kids are useless!"? Because that's how
> my father put it. It didn't matter that, between my two older brothers and
> I, we came home from school to vaccuum the carpets, mow the lawn (at least
> once a week), help him fix a car or two, wash and dry all the dishes and
> make dinner (and would be washing and drying the dishes again as soon as
> they were all off the table). And that's not even what I consider to be
> some of his more abusive comments!
We do have to talk to the kids about what real abuse is because the
public schools put these strange ideas in kids heads that nobody is
allowed to touch them, including their parents, and they are free
individuals who have choices to do whatever they want. Now I know
the schools don't intend this the way it turns out, but grade school
kids don't grasp the whole concept of things and only hear a word or
two in selective places.
>
> My father called me a slut and a whore and a tramp from the time I was nine
> years old. Every other kid was wearing makeup and in place of telling me
> not to wear makeup (and my father had very definite ways of enforcing these
> things, but it was more fun for him not to), he took great pride in
> announcing in front of everybody that my blue eyeshadow made my eyes look
> "just like a baboon's asshole."
>
> They didn't have the term "emotionally abusive" back then (at least not
> that I ever heard) but I assure you my brothers and I were aware that my
> father was abusing us. Kids don't need to be given names and titles to
> understand that being told to clear the table is a pain in the ass and
> being told that you're useless and stupid and a whore is abuse. My mother
> insists that we don't know what we're talking about...we always had food on
> the table and a roof over our heads and proper medical care. My father
> never gave us bruises or broken arms or black eyes, so when we look back at
> our childhood and say that we were abused we're just being ungrateful and
> ridiculous and blowing the whole thing out of proportion.
But you turned out OK? My father talked mean to us also, a lot of the
similar things you brought up. I will admit one thing though, it built
character and I am determined not put my kids through the same hell we
went through at times. Even with all that stuff though, that is no
reason
to call in social services and try to take a child away from his home,
which is what the original poster was implying. AND the original poster
gave no indication that things were anything like you described in your
home.
>
> If an eleven year old is complaining about emotional abuse and wanting to
> move out of his mother's home, he's probably telling the truth. Even I, as
> a child, had the house picked out that my mother and I would move into when
> she finally left my father. I would have killed to be able to get out of
> that house!
My step-kids came home once this summer after 2 weeks with their dad and
step-mom and my 12 yo SS started throwing around these "abuse" terms
with
me. Some background: we found out a couple weeks before summer vacation
that
their dad planned on having the kids at his house all summer (11 weeks),
we
insisted on getting 5 of the 11. This was a bitter battle that we
finally
compromised on getting 34 days scattered instead of the 1-2 week blocks
we wanted. Why he thought he would get the whole summer, when that has
never
been the case before, is still beyond us. So anyway the kids go there
for
2 weeks, come home very quiet and evasive of us. That night at the
supper
table my 8 yo SD spills her full glass of milk. Instead of stopping the
milk
from running all over she just sat there and looked at it. Her mom
yelled
for her to get a rag. She didn't move. I yelled for to get a rag. She
just
sat there. I then got up, pulled her out of her chair, walked her to the
kitchen, put a dish rag in her hand, walked her to the sink, wet the
rag,
and walked her to the table. She was fighting me by not moving her feet
when I walked her to the table so she was doing the stumbling act which
was so fakey anybody could see through it. Everybody but my SS that is.
He blew up at ME. He says "I am tired of the way you treat us, I hate
you,
I hate it here, thats it, I'm going to live with my dad!!" The tension
in the house stayed for 2 days. We found out a few days later that the
dad told the kids, referring to the summer schedule now "If your mom
wants everything to be fair, you lived with her for 6 years now you can
live with me for 6 years." The kids always want the time at each house
to
be equal and this was a fact they had never considered. It made them
come home looking for problems at our house. We found out they discussed
with their dad all of the "abusive" things I have done to them. One time
years ago the SS fell between his bed and wall when he was throwing a
tantrum, that story now changed to me "throwing" him there and bruising
him. Just prior to the visit with dad my SD got a slight boot in the
backside for not moving when she was told (side of the foot, no power
whatsoever), that got turned into me kicking her all of the time.
Obviously neither kid has ever had bruises or wounds from abuse, but
somehow dad convinced them that they were being abused. It is this kind
of dirty underhanded schemes that infuriates me. I have done everything
for these kids, I've raised them since they were 7 & 3, their dad walked
out on them, cheated on their mom, never held a job, never supplied
any health insurance for them, has never cared about anything they are
interested in. Now he tries to give the kids the power to destroy my
life when I've sacrificed everything in my life to provide for them. All
because he has decided that he wants them to live with him now. "I
destroyed your life once, now I am going to do it again."
>
> Sorry...I realize that this is not about me and my past, but this is a
> subject that I feel *very* strongly about!
As you can tell, I also feel *very* strongly about it. False accusations
can be very dangerous.
-Dean
Dean Barker
>
> It's not a matter of putting the entire power in his hands, what we've told
> him is that he needs to make a decision and discuss it with his mother and
> if she agrees, then he could come and stay with us. He is well aware of
> that.
I think it would be best if the dad discusses it with the mom and not
put the kid in the middle. My SKs always say, I want to live with dad
and I want to live with mom too. See, divorce destroys the kids lives
and it cannot be restored. The boy may not be 100% happy at mom's,
but he will not be 100% happy at your house either, it is a lose/lose
situation. In most cases I think the best solution is to not make
any more major changes in the kids life, that includes permanent
moves. I know, the NCP on here will hate me for that comment.
>
> As for the emotional abuse part, we have never introduced that term to him,
> or even suggested that we are concerned about what goes on in his home. He
> has described several situations that suggest emotional abuse, such as -
> constantly being called names - which has been witnessed by other adults,
> step dad putting down my husband (a man he's never met), telling step son
> that he's no good, basically everything that ss does is wrong in step dads
> eyes. He even got a stereo for Christmas last year and step dad won't let
> him listen to it...get that...he get's the kid a stereo, but won't let him
> use it???? All of these examples are things that were witnessed by other
> adults and/or confirmed by his bio mom.
You are hearing these things from a kids point of view, kids are not
happy when they are being taught how to be *decent*. AND you do not
know the whole story on the stereo. If my SS cannot follow the rules
set out for him, he gets things taken away also. It teaches him
about life. I think you need more information about the "emotional
abuse", from sources other then the kid himself. I think you and the
dad are looking for a reason to force the kid to move, and that might
not be the best thing for the kid.
>
> Ss was a very stable boy prior to step dad moving in with them, now he cries
> easily...he has no problems doing chores and following rules, but I'm sure
> that there has been the occassional non compliance on his part, even with
> that scenerio it's no reason to constantly put down the kid.
Again, I think you need more information.
-Dean
lilblakdog
Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> wrote in article <35D9D6...@cray.com>...
> But you turned out OK?
Well, I was trying to stay away from that part of the situation but no, I
didn't turn out okay. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if it will help
a parent understand that emotional abuse can be almost more difficult to
deal with than physical abuse....
Although my father called me all those horrible names, I was terrified to
lose my virginity until four years after he died. It was of paramount
importance to me that I prove him wrong. I'm terribly, terribly hung up on
the whole idea of sex...just ask DH who gets it about once every three
months or so. Since I first found out what sex was, I've viewed it as
something bad. I am unable to even enjoy kissing my DH...it's just one of
those wifely duties that I try and avoid as much as possible. When he was
told to "kiss the bride", he gave me a light peck. The marriage
commissioner tried to talk us into a longer one for the photographer so we
shook hands instead. It made for a cute joke, but DH and I weren't
laughing. I love him dearly and wouldn't want to lose him, but I just
can't get turned onto the idea of making love with him.
Because of the way my father controlled his family, I am obsessive about
not allowing my DH to control me. That means that he's not allowed to
dislike a friend or an outfit or my hair or makeup or housekeeping skills
or cooking or what I do with my time or anything. I am my own person in my
own little coccoon and it does not make for the happiest of marriages. My
mother blossomed when my father died...she'd surpressed her own wants and
ideas for so long that she's a completely different person than the one
that was married to my father. I am plagued by nightmares where my father
comes back home (he was on vacation when he died...to my subconscious he's
still just away) and things have to go back to the way they were before.
And I'm not even so upset about that for myself; I'd hate to see my mother
have to go back to being the house-bound mouse that she was twelve years
ago! And I will never, ever allow that to happen to myself.
I am terrified to have children because I do not know how to talk to them
like I'm sure a parent should. As you all know, I adore my stepson and
have a wonderful relationship with him. But when he spills his drink after
I told him to be careful or leaves his room a mess when he goes back home,
I see red. I mean real red. I have to walk away before I lose it
completely. It seems to me that that's not really indicative of someone
who's going to make a good 24-7 parent. Because nobody ever taught me how
to temper frustration with love, I'm still cheating myself out of having a
child.
And I truly believe in letting go of the past and moving forward, but these
are the facts. Whether they're rational or not, these are the emotional
scars that my father left me with. His first wife was a tramp who cheated
on him repeatedly and he chose to take that out on me. Makeup equals
whore. Just once he could have said, "You know, if you put that on a
little lighter, you could look really nice" or "If you continue to paint
your face that way, men are going to get the wrong idea." He could have
suggested to my mom that she take me out and buy me some lighter colours
that were more flattering. I WAS TWELVE! Just once, he could have thanked
us for our help on the car or tell us that the house looked nice. But he
didn't.
You know what? My little brother whistles through his teeth the same way
my father did; the same songs. And when I'm over at my mom's and my
brother walks in the back door whistling, I jump out of my skin. Because
when I was a kid, that always meant trouble. There was always hell to
pay...if we were doing dishes, we'd be yelled at for not having them done
yet. Or yelled at not to forget something really obvious, like a pot on
the stove. And if the whole house and yard were completely spotless and
dinner was bubbling away happily on the stove, I should be practicing my
guitar. And if I was practicing my guitar, I should have been better.
We're not talking about building character, we're talking about laying the
foundations for severe hang-ups and general mental f***-up!
And do you want to know the single, worst thing of all? At his funeral,
all his friends came up and told me that I was the apple of my father's
eye. When we received his belongings from the hospital in Red Deer, I
discovered that there was a photo in his wallet for nearly every year of my
life, one of each of my older brothers and none of my little brother. And
my mom gave me a gold pocket watch that he'd purchased for me when I was a
small child. It had an "L" engraved on the front and a rose on the back.
And she told me that that's how my father always saw me...as his rose. SO
NOW I'M LEFT FEELING GUILTY THAT I DIDN'T TRY TO *UNDERSTAND* HIM BETTER!
How's that for a legacy?
God that felt good! Very sorry...is there maybe an "I still hate my dead
father" newsgroup?
> I will admit one thing though, it built
> character and I am determined not put my kids through the same hell we
> went through at times.
But see, a lot of kids aren't that lucky. My father treated us the exact
same way that he was treated; my grandmother treated him the exact same way
she was treated; she was treated the exact same way my great-grandmother
was treated. It's called the cycle of abuse, and whether you like labels
or not it's very, very real. I don't know how to respond any differently.
Neither do my brothers. We range in age from 24 to 34 and there are no
grandchildren in sight for my mother! The best thing that we can do for
our children is to not have any. And that's just sad.
> Even with all that stuff though, that is no
> reason
> to call in social services and try to take a child away from his home,
> which is what the original poster was implying. AND the original poster
> gave no indication that things were anything like you described in your
> home.
I'm not sure the original poster knew what kind of abuse was going on. I
was just giving you an example of very real emotional abuse because your
post implied that you didn't believe it existed. And if my parents were
divorced and I was living with my father, with all the names and
suggestions about our usefulness to the world, I would see every reason for
someone to come along and say, "You know what? I think these kids would be
better off with their mother." Because, to tell you the truth, it's only
the fact that my father died when I was fifteen that saved our lives. My
little brother and I were young enough to benefit from being left solely in
my mother's care. I look at my older brothers and their tremendous
insecurity and inability to commit to anything and I think how lucky I was
that my father was stupid enough to take part in a fall harvest with a
severely damaged heart! My middle brother is nearly 31 and does not have a
single happy memory from the time before he was an adult. Not one. My
oldest brother has an extremely violent temper. Trust me, I know...it's
been directed at me many times! He never had a single friend as an adult
until he started hanging out in chat rooms on the Internet and nameless,
faceless people told him that they thought he was interesting. He's still
working on it, but at least he's made some friends and has something of a
social life (including a very promising relationship). And I have never
admitted this to anyone, but both my older brothers were involved in mild
molestation of children left in their care. They were single
instances...both of them...and they've received help, but I don't believe
that they will ever have faith in their ability to parent.
We are definitely not OK.
> As you can tell, I also feel *very* strongly about it. False accusations
> can be very dangerous.
I agree with you...believe me. I have a cousin who goes to a shrink
several times a week and comes out with a new accusation every couple of
days. I stopped speaking to her when she decided that my grandfather--who
was the dearest person in the world to me--molested her. She was one of
six female grandchildren and by far the least "developed"...the rest of us
never experienced a single improper act. And, of course, she never came
out with this while he was still alive and able to defend himself. She
also accused our newly divorced uncle of making a pass at her. Of course,
she omitted the boudoir photo she had made for him a couple of months
before!
The one time I tried to go to a shrink for my severe depression, she kept
insisting that I'd been molested as a child because I didn't like to be
touched. They don't seem to understand that being called a whore for six
years can have the same effect! No matter how many times I tried to
convince her that I was not surpressing and not in denial, she'd come right
back to the idea that I had to have been molested at one time or another.
We got nowhere...if I was a weaker person, my family would have been in a
great deal of trouble!
I assure you, I know all about the danger of false accusations!
However, you're talking about a manipulative father who's playing on their
emotions. He's pulling the strings...your kids really can't be blamed for
the things that you mentioned. I feel for you, believe me; it sounds like
you're getting a pretty bad rap. And I understand why you feel so strongly
about this as well...particularly if you grew up in the same kind of
environment that I did and was able to come out a good parent. I wish I
could be so lucky as you, believe me!
*If this woman's post is completely truthful* (not that I'm doubting it,
but I suppose that's the thing, isn't it?), it sounds to me like the biomom
is a fairly reasonable person. This woman must think that the mother is
reasonable enough to consider putting the child with the father, so she
must be. I cannot see a small child coming from a relatively loving
environment with his mother to his father's house and bringing up the
subject of moving in with them unless something is going on in that house.
It at least warrants looking into. He wants to leave, but he's afraid of
leaving his half-sister...kids don't generally make stuff like that up. If
he just wanted to get away from the stepfather, he'd just say he wanted to
move in with Dad. He wouldn't be voicing concern for the sister he has to
leave behind.
lil
lilblakdog
Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> wrote in article <35D9CB...@cray.com>...
> I would not use any of those
> statements,
> they would not fit in to the Christian home we are raising our kids in,
> however, at times it does not hurt to point out to the kids when they
> are acting like a brat or like a baby.
But you've just said the magic word there, Dean. "Acting." There's a huge
difference between being told that you're acting like a brat or a baby and
being told that you *are* a brat or a baby. If you keep using that word,
you'll find that you'll have a lot less problems with them!
lil
Merrie
step-father were not getting along, he would cry at school on the days
that he was to visit his mother. The teacher called us. We felt there
was very little that we could say to the mother that would have any
effect and we also felt it was not "our" business. We took the boy to a
counselor, who in turn called his mother and expressed the boy's
feelings. The mother responded better to the counselor than she would
have to us.
Since you do not know exactly what is going on, and since you fear she
may retaliate by shortening visitation, I recommend that you find some
third party that can assess the situation. The boy's teacher is the
first to come to mind. Perhaps his doctor or if there is a caregiver,
or grandmother or neighbor.
I also do not think it is appropriate to involve the boy in discussions
about money or custody.
Merrie
Mike & Peg wrote:
>
> I have a question that I'm sure other's have deal with and need some advice
> as to how to handle the situation. Here goes....
>
> I have an 11 year old step son who is interested in living with us full
> time. His mother takes excellent care of him, however, her new husband is
> very emotionally abusive towards him. She has even made comments to his
> grandmother (my husband's mom) that she has asked/told her husband to leave
> him alone on several occassions.
>
Lisa
>
> It's not a matter of putting the entire power in his hands, what we've told
> him is that he needs to make a decision and discuss it with his mother and
> if she agrees, then he could come and stay with us. He is well aware of
> that.
>
> or even suggested that we are concerned about what goes on in his home. He
> has described several situations that suggest emotional abuse, such as -
> constantly being called names - which has been witnessed by other adults,
> step dad putting down my husband (a man he's never met), telling step son
> that he's no good, basically everything that ss does is wrong in step dads
> eyes. He even got a stereo for Christmas last year and step dad won't let
> him listen to it...get that...he get's the kid a stereo, but won't let him
> use it???? All of these examples are things that were witnessed by other
> adults and/or confirmed by his bio mom.
>
Lisa
pastor-- whom your stepson can talk to? It's such a tought time for a
kid, when a parent remarries.
If you have a good relationship with your son's biomom, this is probably
the time to take advantage of it. She may agree that he should move.
Or, she may have some very comforting things to say about what really
happened. I love my stepson, and I have been a good parent to him. And
I know that he genuinely remembers things very differently from the way
they actually happened.
Here's an example: He was angry because I was enforcing the
long-established rule that he wasn't allowed to be home alone. He said,
"I hate you! I want to go live with [biomom]!" (He doesn't say this
often.) I said, "You can call her if you want to." (I think a lot
about whether that was the right thing to say., But I had always told
him that if he wanted to see his mother --it's about an hour away-- I'd
drive him there.)
Anyway, he believes --and I believe it's a genuine belief-- that I told
him his mother didn't want him! That's not what I said, and it's not
what I meant --but it's what he heard. I think it was his own fear,
projected into my voice. He thinks she doesn't want him, because he
doesn't live with her.
Maybe your son's stepfather is way out of line. If so, *get him out of
there!* Don't worry about lawyers or making her mad -- do what you need
to do. But maybe he's not. Maybe biomom can explain some of the things
you're hearing. It might be a relief to your son if you talked to her
directly and tok him out of themiddle.
Good luck! It's a miserable situation to be in. But it's worst for
your stepson.
Lisa
peg boucher murphy
>Mike & Peg wrote:
>> As for the emotional abuse part, we have never introduced that term to him,
>> or even suggested that we are concerned about what goes on in his home. He
>> has described several situations that suggest emotional abuse, such as -
>> constantly being called names - which has been witnessed by other adults,
>> step dad putting down my husband (a man he's never met), telling step son
>> that he's no good, basically everything that ss does is wrong in step dads
>> eyes. He even got a stereo for Christmas last year and step dad won't let
>> him listen to it...get that...he get's the kid a stereo, but won't let him
>> use it???? All of these examples are things that were witnessed by other
>
>You are hearing these things from a kids point of view, kids are not
>happy when they are being taught how to be *decent*. AND you do not
>know the whole story on the stereo.
are you reading the same post i am? mike&peg say that there are other sources,
adult sources, including grandma and the bio mom.
just what else do you need?
>I think you need more information about the "emotional
>abuse", from sources other then the kid himself.
you're personalizing (and thus projecting here) this so much that you are
missing what is being said. unless you are peg (of mike&peg)'s ex, this is
*not* your family, your situation, your kids.
step back and listen to what is actually being said, not what you expect to
hear.
peg
-not of mike&peg
Wakanyeja Makah
wrote:
>Well, I was trying to stay away from that part of the situation but no, I
>didn't turn out okay. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if it will help
>a parent understand that emotional abuse can be almost more difficult to
>deal with than physical abuse....
Lil, I felt so sad when I read this. What a wonderful person you appear
to have turned out (and a wonderful mother for your SS) given your
beginnings.
It makes me sick to see how some parents talk to (and treat) their
children. I wouldn't talk to or treat my animals the way some people yell
at their kids. Broken bones and bruises heal (although they are horrible
as well)... but those words...well, they are there forever...
I am one of those people who *sticks my nose in* when I see it in the
grocery or in a mall. I think to look the other way or not do so when
someone is brutalizing a small child (verbally or physically) is to be less
than a human being.
One night I had taken my grandparents to a steakhouse when a woman slapped
her (maybe) 4 year old daughter in the face for asking a question (...with
the comment "I told you to shut up...") so here is this beautiful little
blond-haired blue-eyed little girl sobbing as hard as she could with a red
welt of a hand print on her face with her mother still screaming
"shut-up...or I'll give you something to cry about." which of course made
the little girl sob all the harder and then she lifted the child by her
wrists over the table (she is damn lucky she didn't dislocate her shoulder)
and carried her for a couple hundred yards this way to the bathroom where
you could hear the child screaming and being hit...I went into the bathroom
and tried to stop it and was told to "Mind your own effing business" so I
did.
I went to the manager and had them call the police.
The little girl was picked up at the restaurant by an aunt (..who
stated that she KNEW this was going to happen sometime the way that her
sister treated the little girl..) and Mom got cuffed outside and was able
to spend the evening in city lock-up thinking about how she should NOT
treat her child this way.
The part that scares me. If a mother will treat her child this way
in a public place...can you IMAGINE what she will or has done in private...
People *need* to get involved.
It is sad.
W. Makah
VanEx
>
> On Tue, 18 Aug 1998 21:24:13 GMT, "lilblakdog" <lilbl...@my-dejanews.com>
> wrote:
> >didn't turn out okay. I can't believe I'm saying this, but if it will help
> >a parent understand that emotional abuse can be almost more difficult to
> >deal with than physical abuse....
>
YOU GO GIRL!!! That took a lot of guts and boy do I admire you for it.
There's a little boy who lives 3 houses down from me. I have a feeling
he's being abused, but I'm not sure. I've seen his mother "in action"
twice - one time she was screaming at him telling him how selfish he
was, etc. It bothered me, but I let it go. The second time the boy and
his mother were in there back yard (I was on my back porch). She was
yelling at him and walking towards him, he was scared to death and kept
trying to back away from her. She motioned him to go in the house. He
walked past her and as he walked toward the house she smacked him across
the back of the head. I stood there staring at her in hopes that she
would see me, but she didn't. Again, I let it go. Maybe he deserved it
- though I doubt it. I think that if you are going to discipline a
child, you need to swat their bottom, NOT any other body part and NOT
out of anger. Anyway, right then and there I swore to myself that if I
get one more "feeling" about this lady, I'm going to call the police.
I'm rambling again. Sorry. :)
Maria
Mike & Peg
intentions...it seems that things keep getting "read into" what I intially
posted.
I do not take ss's word as the truth 100% on this matter. The issues about
the emotional abuse have been witnessed by his grandmother and his uncle.
In addition to them witnessing it, his bio mom has also discussed these
issues with other family members that have come to us one by one to inform
us of the situation. Bio mom feels that step dad is borderline emotionally
abusive towards SS (these are things that came directly from bio mom and
other family members on both sides are not our interpretation of what the
situation is).
We are not medling into his relationship with his mother. Rather, we are
letting him know that if he chooses to come and live with us, and is serious
enough about that decision and talks to his mom, we are more than happy to
have him here full time. We NEVER bring up the issue of him living with us,
that conversation is ALWAYS initiated by him, nor do we EVER say anything
negative about his bio mom or even his step dad for that matter.
We have encouraged him to talk to his mom about his feelings about step dad,
and we always try to encourage him to have some of these conversations about
moving with his mom. I just can't see how that is meddling, if anything, we
are being supportive to bio mom by not encouraging him to make such major
decisions before discussing it with bio mom.
janelaw
>
> Once again I will explain what I meant by emotional abuse and our
> intentions...it seems that things keep getting "read into" what I intially
> posted.
Don't get defensive. I am not trying to criticize you here. I
think people are reading their own situations into yours because
they don't have enough hard facts. Since none of us know the
players personally, we are at a disadvantage.
I still don't feel like I have a clear idea of what "emotional
abuse" is going on. When I read your version of other people
said, I could go either way. SD could be a real brute. OTOH,
Dean could be right: kids can feel that you are abusing them
when you tell them to pick up after themselves. Some days I
feel that the only interaction I have with my kids is telling
them to do something or to stop doing something.
The examples you give just aren't concrete enough. The
name-calling, criticizing, "nothing he ever does is right" stuff
is just too vague and subjective for me to gauge. It could be,
"you'll never amount to anything, you worthless little shit," or
"i'm not going to listen to anymore back talk out of your fresh
mouth, now go wait in the car." Also, I can't see the child or
DH's mother and brother as objective and disinterested
witnesses. And I can't tell if there is a pervasive dislike of
SF that influences the adults' perception.
Regarding the stereo situation, I have no problem whatsoever
imagining a variety of situations in which I would ground my
children from using their stereos: bad grades, volume level,
inappropriate choice of music, etc. This just sounds like a
valid parental choice that a kid might use to manipulate you.
Then, I can't help thinking, "Well, if that's the worst he can
come up with, things don't sound so bad."
Also, breaking in a new step-parent can be stressful for both
children and adults. You don't want to make the situation
harder by giving SS the idea that if things aren't automatically
perfect, he can just leave.
You say that in general BM takes "excellent care" of SS. That
would make me inclined to trust her to deal with this
situation. I think you should talk to her directly. If nothing
else, she deserves/needs to know that SS is expressing these
concerns. Also, you don't want her to hear about it when SS
bursts out, "I hate you! I'm leaving. Dad says I can come live
with him." Tell her that you are a little worried about some
things SS has been saying. Ask her what she thinks the
situation is, how she would like you to handle it, and if there
is anything you can do to make this all easier for SS. If you
approach her with a cooperative, non-accusatory, non-threatening
manner, then maybe you can work together as a team.
Good luck.
Pugg
the responses you actually heard anything that you think might help you to
deal with this problem?
Have you two decided what to do or if you will do anything at all?
I have found myself caring about your SS (maybe because my son is a similar
age), and the more I here from you, It does sound to me like he has a real
problem.
By the way, I think what you have done so far is not meddling, especially
since the subject originates not from you guys but from the boy himself. It
sounds like you really care. Heck, you even cared enough about him to post
here asking for advice. If you had other motives besides his best
interests, I havn't sensed them yet.
I hope you choose to help him somehow. Sometimes solutions miraculously
present themselves to us out of nowhere, and they may not be the most
obvious ones. By putting so much of your energy and time into looking for a
solution, I think you are being a great parent. Good luck!
Maria
Mike & Peg wrote in message <6rhp8g$89o$1...@news3.mr.net>...
>Once again I will explain what I meant by emotional abuse and our
>intentions...it seems that things keep getting "read into" what I intially
>posted.
>
Mike & Peg
asked for advice, and the whole situation here turned into a discussion
about what emotional abuse really is, and/or what my motives are.
I assure you, that my motives are exactly what I posted, simply to help ss
deal with the problems that he has brought to our attention. We would NEVER
try to meddle into his relationship with his mom (I'm sure I'm gonna get
flamed for that statement).
Another interesting twist in this delima...ss was here for a 2 week visit
before school started..anyway, he insisted on calling his mom at least 2
times a day. Finally Grandma called him Fri. night and said that if he
wanted to come home a week early she would make the drive to our home (4
hours one way) and pick him up. Well, we sat down with ss Friday night and
told him we knew what Grandma had said and talked with him about it. We
told him that the decision to end the visit early was ok with us, if that
was what he really wanted. Sure, we didn't like the idea of him going home
a week early, but it would be better than forcing him to stay with us just
because it was "our time" to be with him.
After an hour long talk, ss finally broke down and said that he really
misses his mom, he's been away from bio mom pretty much all month on trips
with different relatives. We assured him that it is ok to miss mom and that
we do understand that. We also let him know that we believe just because he
chooses to go home early this time, does not mean that he doesn't ever want
to come visit anymore. SS finally asked "is it ok to go home early then?"
and we assured him that it is ok with us. So, we made the call to grandma
and to bio mom and explained everything to them. Grandma came on Sunday and
picked him up.
It appears that he would rather deal with and try to work out the
difficulties at home instead of moving here full time (which is entirely ok
with us, if that's what he really wants).
Dean Barker
apologize
if it got out of hand. Hopefully something useful came of it.
I'd just like to comment on your story of SS going home before the
agreed
upon visit was over. What is very hard about these split family
situations
is you need to try real hard to put the needs of the child first and not
put the child in the middle of an argument. So, therefore what you did
by allowing him to leave was the best thing for him. However, I think
the
mom should have talked to him and assured him that everything was
allright,
it's only a week longer, encourage him to find things to do, etc. At
times
my SD has called home in long visits at dad's and said similar things,
but
kids are funny they think about the moment and they don't look at the
big
picture. We have told her, she'll be home on whatever date and she'll be
OK. We know nothing bad is happening to her at dad's house and she is
only
bored at the moment, but things are coming up to do. In your case I
blame
the mom for not working harder to uphold the agreement and I commend
you and your husband for letting it go without an argument. Maybe next
time you can have something worked out with mom for when the boy calls
home and expects to be picked up again, this time may have set a
precedent.
-Dean
Jeanette Cameron
Mike & Peg wrote:
I commend you in putting your SS's interest before yours. Some parents fight
over their kids and are actually putting their interest before what's best for
the child. Some parents wouldn't have even considered what the child wanted.
I also like that you assured your SS that it was ok to miss his mom. When my SD
is with us we let her know that it's ok to miss her mom (we let her call and
write her mom) as well and let her know that she can still love her mother when
she's with us.
We too have asked my SD during her summer visits with us if she wanted to go
home early. Her reply has always been no and she wants to stay longer with us.
If she ever does say that she would like to go home early, then my husband and I
would have to acknowledge her wish.
It takes a strong and mature person to do these things. I believe children
sometimes will say or not say certain things because they think they will hurt
the other parent. I think its good to have an environment where children can
express their wishs and not get in trouble for it.
Lisa
to have you listening to him and supporting him. Way to go!
Lisa
Mike & Peg wrote:
>
> . . .