Contact
Wendy
years - a long story about parental alienation. He turns 50 this year and
has been reviewing things. He's found a PI and the PI has found an address
for one of them. He's excited to try and afraid to be rejected all over
again.
It's so difficult to know how to do this.
Wendy
The Watsons
"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c6gohl$1ej$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
my father and i haven't had a decent relationship for six or seven years, at
least...he picked up the phone a few months ago and made that first step,
and so far, we've met for dinner and we're meeting for ice cream again this
afternoon...not saying it's been peachy-keen since that first step-it is a
slow, agonizing process and we've both had some sleepless nights over
it...but at least this time, it seems to be working...
all he can do is try; if he doesn't, he'll eat himself up with the
what-ifs....if he does try, yes, he runs the risk of rejection-but he's
dealt with the rejection for fourteen years...or he runs the risk of being
able to reform a relationship with them...it won't be the same relationship
because everyone is an adult now and he'll most likely have to relate to
them as adults instead of his children, but....well, what's he got to lose
now, and what does he stand to gain if he does try?
Jess
ni...@impactwp.com
"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c6gohl$1ej$1...@newsg2.svr.pol.co.uk...
I would imagine that expecting rejection and being ok with it would be a
good plan. I think a lot of Dads in this scenario expect the 'welcome with
open arms' OR the 'piss off and never come back' and don't see that there is
middle ground.
The kids HAVE to make him pay. It doesn't matter why or when or how long he
was away. He Was Away. They'll knock him back until they feel they've got
their 'own back' some, then they'll start to soften. Probably.
Perhaps he could say 'ok when I've heard f**k off ten times I'll leave them
alone' but combine that with the softly, softly approach, by letter, etc.
Nikki
_calinda_
Wendy, I wish I had some advice to offer. I don't know *how* I
would have reacted if my bioF tried to contact me after all the time
that passed. Our situation was different in that he was abusive to
my mother (chair over head was the last straw for her).
But he made a new life for himself and I'd always wondered if he'd
changed, what he was like and why did he find it so easy (at least
it seemed in my child's mind) to walk away from three children?
When he passed away 8 years ago, I cried for three days solid. It
made NO sense. I didn't know him at all. He'd left before I was
one y/o. He never tried to contact me, and in his obit, it said Mr.
XX died leaving two sons Kxxx and Mxxx and two daughters. No one in
his new family even knew my or my sister's name.
I don't know how I would have reacted had he contacted me. I had
finally got the nerve up to ask my mom for his address and she gave
it to me the Christmas before he passed away. I never got the
gumption up to contact him.
I've spent a lot of tears wondering what was wrong with me, that he
could walk away and not look back. I would have liked to know why
he did what he did and his feelings over the years.
Contacting them could answer some questions they might have, though
I imagine it will be difficult.
Good luck to him
Cal~
Wendy
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6h0r6$b8to8$1...@ID-178943.news.uni-berlin.de...
Cal, this may still be a sensitive topic and I don't want to upset you or
provoke any thinking about things which will upset you, but it might and if
it does I'm going to say sorry now before you've even read it. Okay.
> Wendy, I wish I had some advice to offer. I don't know *how* I
> would have reacted if my bioF tried to contact me after all the time
> that passed. Our situation was different in that he was abusive to
> my mother (chair over head was the last straw for her).
Maybe he was. Maybe he did. How do you really know, apart from what your
mother told you?
This case may not be so different, who knows what his ex has told his
children. We know that she accused him of lots of untrue things which were
disproved in court. She may well have told them things which she believes to
be true, but which are inventions. People invent things all the time and
remember things in very different ways from each other.
> But he made a new life for himself and I'd always wondered if he'd
> changed, what he was like and why did he find it so easy (at least
> it seemed in my child's mind) to walk away from three children?
Barclay virtually bankrupted himself in the process of defending himself and
trying to get access to his children. He walked away only when he felt that
carrying on was going to make things harder for them, like having their
mother put in jail for not giving access to the children repeatedly. Not a
day goes by that he doesn't grieve, sometime more visibly than at others,
but it's like a life sentence.
I wouldn't assume that your Dad never thought about you.
> When he passed away 8 years ago, I cried for three days solid. It
> made NO sense. I didn't know him at all. He'd left before I was
> one y/o. He never tried to contact me, and in his obit, it said Mr.
> XX died leaving two sons Kxxx and Mxxx and two daughters. No one in
> his new family even knew my or my sister's name.
Barclay has tried repeatedly over the years to send them letters on
birthdays and at Christmas, without any response. This is the first time
he's tried to contact at an address other than his ex's though.
> I don't know how I would have reacted had he contacted me. I had
> finally got the nerve up to ask my mom for his address and she gave
> it to me the Christmas before he passed away. I never got the
> gumption up to contact him.
With something so difficult, it's not surprising that you put it off waiting
for the right time.
> I've spent a lot of tears wondering what was wrong with me, that he
> could walk away and not look back. I would have liked to know why
> he did what he did and his feelings over the years.
>
> Contacting them could answer some questions they might have, though
> I imagine it will be difficult.
It might raise a whole lot more.
> Good luck to him
Thanks
Wendy
Wendy
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10829159...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> I would imagine that expecting rejection and being ok with it would be a
> good plan.
More easily said than done.
> Perhaps he could say 'ok when I've heard f**k off ten times I'll leave
them
> alone' but combine that with the softly, softly approach, by letter, etc.
Maybe when and if they have children of their own they'll understand why he
keeps trying.
Letters can just be ignored though. Phone calls or visiting is harder to
ignore, it requires a reaction of some sort, but more likely to be an angry
one perhaps?
Wendy
ni...@impactwp.com
>
> <ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
> news:10829159...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
>
> > I would imagine that expecting rejection and being ok with it would be a
> > good plan.
>
> More easily said than done.
Sure. But you know what I mean, right? I mean that the chances of getting
the reception that Barclay wants at the first contact is extremely unlikely.
Perhaps he'll never get the reception that he wants - and he needs to work
out a timeframe in which he can decide if it is a: that they truly don't
want to see him or b: that they're still busy reacting to the shock that
he's in touch.
> > Perhaps he could say 'ok when I've heard f**k off ten times I'll leave
> them
> > alone' but combine that with the softly, softly approach, by letter,
etc.
>
> Maybe when and if they have children of their own they'll understand why
he
> keeps trying.
I'm sure that's true. How old are they? Problem is, the very thing Barclay
needs to say most is the thing the kids will want to hear least. Namely
'your mother is a lying ....'. So I'd say stay away from that totally, at
least at first.
>
> Letters can just be ignored though. Phone calls or visiting is harder to
> ignore, it requires a reaction of some sort, but more likely to be an
angry
> one perhaps?
He's got to allow for shock value. This is a shocking thing. The kids may
believe all sorts of things about him that are not true and it's going to be
a huge emotional reaction from them when he reappears. I think doing it any
other way than letter is likely of more failure. At the very least he needs
to 'warn' them that he is beginning to try and get in touch again. I'd say a
letter is the best way. Barclay can think carefully of what he wants to say
and say it. He can also say what he plans to do next, ie, 'I'd like us to
talk by phone with a view to seeing you again'. And he needs to let the news
sink in for a period too.
I think any form of rush or 'all guns blazing' would be a bad idea. I think
if he's written first and then he calls or turns up in the flesh, he has at
least removed the 'shock' value, so any reaction from them would be more
likely a true reaction, rather than being all caught up in the shock.
I still think the biggest thing is that they're going to be spitting mad and
Barclay has to accept that. If he knows he's going to be repudiated over and
over before them hopefully relaxing into some form of contact it might not
be so hard. You know when kids are toddlers how they 'make you pay' if you
leave them for a while by being a total nightmare when you pick them up?
That's how I think Barclays' kids are going to be.
Give him my very best luck and wishes with this. Where are the children?
Nikki
>
> Wendy
>
>
Kathy Cole
<we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Letters can just be ignored though. Phone calls or visiting is harder to
> ignore, it requires a reaction of some sort, but more likely to be an angry
> one perhaps?
I would recommend starting with letters, rather than being as
confrontational to phone call or stop by without first warning them.
Wendy
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10829644...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> I'm sure that's true. How old are they?
The youngest is about 19 I think, the oldest late 20s.
Problem is, the very thing Barclay
> needs to say most is the thing the kids will want to hear least. Namely
> 'your mother is a lying ....'. So I'd say stay away from that totally, at
> least at first.
I wondered if he sent him some of his cds whether that might be something
which prompted them to be intrigued.
> I still think the biggest thing is that they're going to be spitting mad
and
> Barclay has to accept that.
I think he knows that there will be anger.
> Give him my very best luck and wishes with this. Where are the children?
The only one whose whereabouts we know of is in Cornwall.
Wendy
Wendy
"Kathy Cole" <ka...@scconsult.com> wrote in message
news:tlup80pods8i46n3g...@4ax.com...
> I would recommend starting with letters, rather than being as
> confrontational to phone call or stop by without first warning them.
What about writing and hand delivering it, saying he's in town and will be
at the local pub every evening at a particular time?
Wendy
ni...@impactwp.com
My initial reaction is 'too soon'.
I think he needs to leave weeks between the first letter and next contact.
And I know that's the last thing he wants to hear. But I think two weeks
wouldn't be long and six weeks too long. As much time as he can bear to let
them assimilate the news and respond appropriately.
Nikki
Kathy Cole
<we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> What about writing and hand delivering it, saying he's in town and will be
> at the local pub every evening at a particular time?
I would resent that degree of pressure. Mailing a letter and indicating
I'd be in town at a pub at least a month into the future would be
better.
The Watsons
> What about writing and hand delivering it, saying he's in town and will be
> at the local pub every evening at a particular time?
at best, if my father had shown up on my doorstep unexpectedly, the best
response he could've expected from me would've been a slammed door...he
needs to stick with a removed form of contact-letters or emails or maybe a
phone call, something where he's not right there in their faces, demanding
an instaneous response...
Jess
The Watsons
> > I would imagine that expecting rejection and being ok with it would be a
> > good plan.
>
> More easily said than done.
and honestly, doesn't he deal with the rejection every single day? as it
stands now, at least it's kind of simmering in the background instead of
being right there exploding in his face....the second type of rejection is
much harder to handle, much less between a parent/child...
> Maybe when and if they have children of their own they'll understand why
he
> keeps trying.
*shakes head* doubtful...they'll understand when they can...
> Letters can just be ignored though. Phone calls or visiting is harder to
> ignore, it requires a reaction of some sort, but more likely to be an
angry
> one perhaps?
yes, letters can be ignored...but if he shows up in person, the door can be
slammed...and he has to start somewhere...
Jess
The Watsons
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10829644...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
>Sure. But you know what I mean, right? I mean that the chances of getting
> the reception that Barclay wants at the first contact is extremely
unlikely.
> Perhaps he'll never get the reception that he wants - and he needs to work
> out a timeframe in which he can decide if it is a: that they truly don't
> want to see him or b: that they're still busy reacting to the shock that
> he's in touch.
the major problem i see with that is that a timeframe can't be
identified-his children are going to be hurting and angry and dealing with a
whole bunch of other things all at once, and that doesn't resolve on a set
timeframe...it resolves itself as it resolves itself, and it'll most likely
take a few times to do it...
> I'm sure that's true. How old are they? Problem is, the very thing Barclay
> needs to say most is the thing the kids will want to hear least. Namely
> 'your mother is a lying ....'. So I'd say stay away from that totally, at
> least at first.
he needs to stay completely away from there, from here until hell freezes
over....that's part of what cost me the relationship with both of my
parents....i got tired of hearing "your bitch mother" and "my scumbag ex
husband"...look, ya'll, i don't frigging CARE what ya'll think of each other
because i already Know....it's Not My Issue...
> He's got to allow for shock value. This is a shocking thing. The kids may
> believe all sorts of things about him that are not true and it's going to
be
> a huge emotional reaction from them when he reappears. I think doing it
any
> other way than letter is likely of more failure. At the very least he
needs
> to 'warn' them that he is beginning to try and get in touch again. I'd say
a
> letter is the best way. Barclay can think carefully of what he wants to
say
> and say it. He can also say what he plans to do next, ie, 'I'd like us to
> talk by phone with a view to seeing you again'. And he needs to let the
news
> sink in for a period too.
>
*nods*
> I think any form of rush or 'all guns blazing' would be a bad idea. I
think
> if he's written first and then he calls or turns up in the flesh, he has
at
> least removed the 'shock' value, so any reaction from them would be more
> likely a true reaction, rather than being all caught up in the shock.
*nods again* "softly, softly"...
> I still think the biggest thing is that they're going to be spitting mad
and
> Barclay has to accept that. If he knows he's going to be repudiated over
and
> over before them hopefully relaxing into some form of contact it might not
> be so hard. You know when kids are toddlers how they 'make you pay' if you
> leave them for a while by being a total nightmare when you pick them up?
> That's how I think Barclays' kids are going to be.
don't let them hear that comparison, tho'...;)
Jess
The Watsons
> The youngest is about 19 I think, the oldest late 20s.
gee, my age? :D
Jess
The Watsons
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10829982...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> I think he needs to leave weeks between the first letter and next contact.
> And I know that's the last thing he wants to hear. But I think two weeks
> wouldn't be long and six weeks too long. As much time as he can bear to
let
> them assimilate the news and respond appropriately.
my hunch is that there will be a series of reactions ranging from total
silence at first to a "stop mailing me", and he needs to be gently
persistent, and watch for some indication that they're not averse to contact
with him....will they be willing? likely not, because they've formed their
own lives without him, and here he is, intruding into the nice little life
they've created without his presence...they will most likely view him as
intruding and resent that, and he's going to get to overcome that resentment
too..
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>silence at first to a "stop mailing me", and he needs to be gently
>persistent,
Hmm, if I told someone to stop mailing me and that person continued to do so, I
would consider that harassment.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
The Watsons
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040426181628...@mb-m02.aol.com...
it's different when it's a parent, tho'...it's much harder to do that...and
he can stop mailing them in a way that leaves the next move up to them...
Jess
Joy
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:D6fjc.53$k24.48@fed1read01...
<delurk>
Would it help to offer something that they might want? In addition to
initiating communication, perhaps offering details about his side of the
family they might be interested in? If your father had shown up with useful
information on the family medical history, for example, or stories about
your grandparents, or photos, would you have slammed the door quite as
easily?
Joy
<relurk>
The Watsons
"Joy" <joydoesn...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zvgjc.9114$7a5....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> <delurk>
> Would it help to offer something that they might want? In addition to
> initiating communication, perhaps offering details about his side of the
> family they might be interested in? If your father had shown up with
useful
> information on the family medical history, for example, or stories about
> your grandparents, or photos, would you have slammed the door quite as
> easily?
you betcha..."you think that you can treat me the way you've treated me, and
expect to show up on my doorstep with some bullshit about a family that's
obviously not important enough to you for you to treat your kids as human
beings, and you expect what again? get out of my face"....
offering something his kids might want can very easily be perceived as a
bribe...my father called me once a few years ago, offering to get together
for ice cream-i flat out told him that whatever he hoped to get, he could
shove it up his, 'cuz it wasn't happening-and i hung up on him...
he called me again, offering help when my husband was fighting cancer, and
the response was pretty much the same...:)
Jess
Wendy
"Joy" <joydoesn...@nospam.yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:zvgjc.9114$7a5....@bignews6.bellsouth.net...
> Would it help to offer something that they might want? In addition to
> initiating communication, perhaps offering details about his side of the
> family they might be interested in? If your father had shown up with
useful
> information on the family medical history, for example, or stories about
> your grandparents, or photos, would you have slammed the door quite as
> easily?
They may not have considered whether they want or need such information yet.
But your post, Nikki's and others have got me thinking that maybe instead of
asking for contact, it would be better to write regularly letting them get
to know you through letters, telling them your thoughts, feelings, some
history which doesn't involve their mother, even though you get no response
back. Maybe it would be a good thing to do whether there is a response ever
or not?
Wendy
ni...@impactwp.com
I think that would be nice, as part of it. But I think he's got to be clear
about what he's asking for, or they're all going to be scratching their
heads wondering what he wants.
Something like 'I'm writing because I want the chance to develop a
relationship with you. But I understand that this might be difficult for you
and I don't want to pressurise you in any way. So here's my details : and if
you want to get in touch with me, please do so anytime. In the meantime I'll
write to you again in a couple of weeks.'
If he's not clear about his goals, not only am I seeing anger and upset on
behalf of the children, but also confusion and lots of 'what does he want?'
and 'why is he getting in touch after all of this time'?
My only direct experience of this is with SS. His mother hadn't had any
contact with him for 2 years and he was 10 going on 11 when she reappeared
and *demanded* to see him right away. He was very upset by this. We
suggested six months of letters and phone calls before reintroducing visits,
BM said No way, wants to see him now. So we went to court and BM backed down
and agreed to the arrangement. I'm sure she was mad. But *it worked*. The
letters came and SS ignored them. Why wouldn't he? It was the first time he
had any 'power' with BM. We encouraged him to write back once or twice, but
other than that, he was sitting back and letting her display some maternal
affection. The letters never did work very well, mainly because she just
wouldn't stick to the f**king arrangment and send them regularly, so SS was
up in the air about 'would one arrive/when would it arrive/has she changed
her mind'. Then we moved to phone calls, once a week at a fixed time and
they worked great. At first SS would say 'is she going to phone' over and
over. After a few weeks he'd say 'oh my Mom is phoning tomorrow, right?'
then it became sitting on the sofa, Tuesdays at 6.55pm waiting for the phone
to ring.
It was a slow build up of trust. It allowed him to 'punish' her some by not
writing back, it made her make all of the effort, which he needed to see -
that she was prepared to work hard for him. It gave her chance to show him
she could stick to an arrangement, she could give her word and mean it. By
the time the direct visits came around SS was really relaxed about seeing
her again.
I know Barclays' kids aren't kids anymore. But they are his kids, and I
think the dynamic between him and them as parent and child will still be the
same. The children will pout, he will be expected to do ALL of the work and
take any and all punishments they want to dish out on the nose. He's going
to have to give, give, give, for a long time before he gets anything back.
I'm sure BM used to think it wasn't worth it writing letters to SS. I know
she found it hard and she didn't know what to say. She sent postcards
mainly, it used to irritate the piss out of me that she didn't know what to
write, but I guess I can't blame her. I think Barclay needs to avoid 'and
this is ALL the fun I've been having while I've not been in your life'.
I also think he might expect each of the children to respond differently to
him. I know this is crass, but did you see Eastenders where Derek
re-established contact with his children?
I found out last year my Dad has a half sister we didn't know about. He's 56
and she's 66 - my grandmother abandoned her to move away and marry my
grandfather when she was pregnant, out of wedlock, with my Dad (in 1947).
I've tried to get in touch, via another family member, but she doesn't want
to meet us. She's always known about us, well, my Dad. She's apparently said
that if her mother had got in touch after all these years, she'd be
interested, but she's not interested in meeting us, she wants to leave well
alone. I don't get that at all. I'm pretty mad with her because it means my
Dad can't be in touch (it seems) with his 8 cousins and their countless
children and grandchildren. Right now my sister and I and Kiera are the only
family he has. He may have had his mother, but she's had the whole extended
family my Dad's always been denied. His parents have been dead for 20
years.
Nikki
jane
>which prompted them to be intrigued.
Nooooooooooooooooooooo!
So far I like the idea of writing occasional letters about what is going on
best. That works for me because it leaves the option of response open but does
not demand one. Also, if I were Barclay, I'd make sure they could find me.
Does he have a listed phone number? If he googles himself, does it lead to
current contact information?
Here divorce records are public. The kids can look them up if that's what
they're interested in. The oldest one, the one he's contacting, no doubt
remembers quite a bit anyway.
If I were the kid, I think I'd be wondering why now, after all these years. I
don't know what the answer is, but if I were Barclay, I'd want to be clear on
that. BS on that would make me cut him off at the knees.
jane
Incidentally, is he prepared to be a grandfather?
jane
>Wendy
The Watsons
> They may not have considered whether they want or need such information
yet.
> But your post, Nikki's and others have got me thinking that maybe instead
of
> asking for contact, it would be better to write regularly letting them get
> to know you through letters, telling them your thoughts, feelings, some
> history which doesn't involve their mother, even though you get no
response
> back. Maybe it would be a good thing to do whether there is a response
ever
> or not?
that would be a good start...:) that way, he could show them that he's not
interested in bashing their mother, reliving old history, or whatever, he
just wants them to know him....maybe a few of those kinds of letters, he can
either toss out the option of contact or let them work up to contact...:)
Jess
The Watsons
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10830541...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> I think that would be nice, as part of it. But I think he's got to be
clear
> about what he's asking for, or they're all going to be scratching their
> heads wondering what he wants.
yep...
> Something like 'I'm writing because I want the chance to develop a
> relationship with you. But I understand that this might be difficult for
you
> and I don't want to pressurise you in any way. So here's my details : and
if
> you want to get in touch with me, please do so anytime. In the meantime
I'll
> write to you again in a couple of weeks.'
"the asswipe's been gone for years, and Now he wants to play buddybuddy and
get together all of a sudden? forget that"...
> If he's not clear about his goals, not only am I seeing anger and upset on
> behalf of the children, but also confusion and lots of 'what does he
want?'
> and 'why is he getting in touch after all of this time'?
that's going to be there regardless...
> My only direct experience of this is with SS. His mother hadn't had any
> contact with him for 2 years and he was 10 going on 11 when she reappeared
> and *demanded* to see him right away. The letters never did work very
well, mainly because she just
> wouldn't stick to the f**king arrangment and send them regularly, so SS
was
> up in the air about 'would one arrive/when would it arrive/has she changed
> her mind'. Then we moved to phone calls, once a week at a fixed time and
> they worked great.
that was 2 years, at an older age than Barclay's kids sound like they were,
and you and your DH were actively supporting his relationship with her, not
trying to destroy it...significant differences...
> It was a slow build up of trust. It allowed him to 'punish' her some by
not
> writing back, it made her make all of the effort, which he needed to see -
> that she was prepared to work hard for him. It gave her chance to show him
> she could stick to an arrangement, she could give her word and mean it. By
> the time the direct visits came around SS was really relaxed about seeing
> her again.
yep....
>
> I know Barclays' kids aren't kids anymore. But they are his kids, and I
> think the dynamic between him and them as parent and child will still be
the
> same.
no....they are adults, and have their own lives...with one notable
difference that i'm not discussing here, my father has not been able to be
my "father" in six or seven years-he's had to totally readjust everything to
relating to me as an independent adult...any hint of "because i'm your
father, that's why" is typically either met with an arched eyebrow and a
"don't try that, dad" or some other response, depending...:)
>The children will pout, he will be expected to do ALL of the work and
> take any and all punishments they want to dish out on the nose. He's going
> to have to give, give, give, for a long time before he gets anything back.
yep, but i think you're focusing too much on the punishment aspect of
it...while that will certainly be there, it won't be all of it...there will
be a certain reluctance to reordering their lives and going through the
hassle of allowing him in...
> I'm sure BM used to think it wasn't worth it writing letters to SS. I know
> she found it hard and she didn't know what to say. She sent postcards
> mainly, it used to irritate the piss out of me that she didn't know what
to
> write, but I guess I can't blame her. I think Barclay needs to avoid 'and
> this is ALL the fun I've been having while I've not been in your life'.
he needs to be realistic about what's been happening....he paints too rosy a
picture, and he gives off a bragging aspect; too negative, and he comes
suspiciously close to mom-bashing...
> I also think he might expect each of the children to respond differently
to
> him.
obviously-different people...:)
> I found out last year my Dad has a half sister we didn't know about. He's
56
> and she's 66 - my grandmother abandoned her to move away and marry my
> grandfather when she was pregnant, out of wedlock, with my Dad (in 1947).
> I've tried to get in touch, via another family member, but she doesn't
want
> to meet us. She's always known about us, well, my Dad. She's apparently
said
> that if her mother had got in touch after all these years, she'd be
> interested, but she's not interested in meeting us, she wants to leave
well
> alone. I don't get that at all.
i do-what's the point? she's in her sixties now...
> I'm pretty mad with her because it means my
> Dad can't be in touch (it seems) with his 8 cousins and their countless
> children and grandchildren. Right now my sister and I and Kiera are the
only
> family he has. He may have had his mother, but she's had the whole
extended
> family my Dad's always been denied. His parents have been dead for 20
> years.
family isn't enough reason to stay in contact, hon...family is a collection
of people that you share a common set of genes and history with, but the
people themselves you can like or dislike on that person's merits, or you
can just take or leave the people...
Jess
Wendy
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10830541...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> Something like 'I'm writing because I want the chance to develop a
> relationship with you. But I understand that this might be difficult for
you
> and I don't want to pressurise you in any way. So here's my details : and
if
> you want to get in touch with me, please do so anytime. In the meantime
I'll
> write to you again in a couple of weeks.'
That's pretty much the sort of thing he's said in previous letters, though
who knows if they every received them.
> I also think he might expect each of the children to respond differently
to
> him. I know this is crass, but did you see Eastenders where Derek
Sorry, but I don't watch Eastenders, but I think that they probably will all
respond differently. At this stage, we've an address for one of them only.
> I found out last year my Dad has a half sister we didn't know about. He's
56
> and she's 66 - my grandmother abandoned her to move away and marry my
> grandfather when she was pregnant, out of wedlock, with my Dad (in 1947).
> I've tried to get in touch, via another family member, but she doesn't
want
> to meet us. She's always known about us, well, my Dad. She's apparently
said
> that if her mother had got in touch after all these years, she'd be
> interested, but she's not interested in meeting us, she wants to leave
well
> alone. I don't get that at all. I'm pretty mad with her because it means
my
> Dad can't be in touch (it seems) with his 8 cousins and their countless
> children and grandchildren. Right now my sister and I and Kiera are the
only
> family he has. He may have had his mother, but she's had the whole
extended
> family my Dad's always been denied. His parents have been dead for 20
> years.
That's such a shame. I would have thought that she'd at least want to get
to know your Dad and knowing family connections can be so valuable even if
they aren't people you see regularly or often.
Wendy
Wendy
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040427094650...@mb-m29.aol.com...
> So far I like the idea of writing occasional letters about what is going
on
> best. That works for me because it leaves the option of response open but
does
> not demand one. Also, if I were Barclay, I'd make sure they could find
me.
> Does he have a listed phone number? If he googles himself, does it lead
to
> current contact information?
I did a google on him and his web site is there, but doesn't come up under
his name, or may do but you get lots of hits for other things too.
> Here divorce records are public. The kids can look them up if that's what
> they're interested in. The oldest one, the one he's contacting, no doubt
> remembers quite a bit anyway.
It's the second youngest that he's got a contact address for. The oldest
was his ex's child who he adopted when they got married. The other three
are his biological children, but it was expensive to get even the one
investigation done.
> If I were the kid, I think I'd be wondering why now, after all these
years. I
> don't know what the answer is, but if I were Barclay, I'd want to be clear
on
> that. BS on that would make me cut him off at the knees.
Well, not a year has gone by that he hasn't tried. It's a question of never
having got a response.
> Incidentally, is he prepared to be a grandfather?
He may not have even thought about it.
Wendy
ni...@impactwp.com
>
> "jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
> news:20040427094650...@mb-m29.aol.com...
>
> > So far I like the idea of writing occasional letters about what is going
> on
> > best. That works for me because it leaves the option of response open
but
> does
> > not demand one. Also, if I were Barclay, I'd make sure they could find
> me.
> > Does he have a listed phone number? If he googles himself, does it lead
> to
> > current contact information?
>
> I did a google on him and his web site is there, but doesn't come up under
> his name, or may do but you get lots of hits for other things too.
Roger could give him some advice on changing that if he wants to. Search
Engine Promotion is one of his favourite topics.
>
> > Here divorce records are public. The kids can look them up if that's
what
> > they're interested in. The oldest one, the one he's contacting, no doubt
> > remembers quite a bit anyway.
>
> It's the second youngest that he's got a contact address for. The oldest
> was his ex's child who he adopted when they got married. The other three
> are his biological children, but it was expensive to get even the one
> investigation done.
Well I think he needs to be prepared for all four children to find out, or
only the one of them that receives the letter. That one may not tell the
others.
>
> > If I were the kid, I think I'd be wondering why now, after all these
> years. I
> > don't know what the answer is, but if I were Barclay, I'd want to be
clear
> on
> > that. BS on that would make me cut him off at the knees.
>
> Well, not a year has gone by that he hasn't tried. It's a question of
never
> having got a response.
Well, you never know that Mom never told or showed them once. So he has to
be prepared to deal with the possibility that the kids think he walked out
of their lives one day and never did another thing until now.
>
> > Incidentally, is he prepared to be a grandfather?
>
> He may not have even thought about it.
Was one of my first thoughts, again he needs to be prepared.
Nikki
>
> Wendy
>
>
Vicki Robinson
>That's pretty much the sort of thing he's said in previous letters, though
>who knows if they every received them.
So she didn't send them back?
I just have this fantasy of Barclay gathering up all the letters and
gifts he's tried to send over the years and shipping them off to the
address he's got, with only his phone number and address. Let them
make of it what they will.
Of course, if he didn't actually get his things returned, that won't
work.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
_calinda_
> "_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
> news:c6h0r6$b8to8$1...@ID-178943.news.uni-berlin.de...
>
> Cal, this may still be a sensitive topic and I don't want to upset
> you or provoke any thinking about things which will upset you, but
it
> might and if it does I'm going to say sorry now before you've even
> read it. Okay.
Not a problem Wendy, but thanks.
>> Wendy, I wish I had some advice to offer. I don't know *how* I
>> would have reacted if my bioF tried to contact me after all the
time
>> that passed. Our situation was different in that he was abusive
to
>> my mother (chair over head was the last straw for her).
>
> Maybe he was. Maybe he did. How do you really know, apart from
what
> your mother told you?
It's a long story but for one thing, my brother was six and my
sister was three. My brother had some memories of that night
between my mom and bioF. My mother never told us anything negative
about him, she felt it was wrong to bad talk my bioF at all. It was
when my brother started asking questions when he was older, and then
when he went to live with the bioF that it all came out.
Originally he did have visitation, but one day he stopped coming.
According to my mother now, she said that one day he just didn't
show up. When trying to find him, she was told by his landlord that
he'd packed up and moved out of town. The resources back in 1960/61
to track down a parent who doesn't pay CS or doesn't show up for
visitation just isn't what it is today. She was left on her own.
She never complained, though and I don't ever in all the years
growing up recall hearing her talk badly of him. I think one time
she said she felt some people just aren't cut out to be parents but
that at least he helped her have us, for that she was grateful to
him for. That's about the worst thing I remember her saying.
> This case may not be so different, who knows what his ex has told
his
> children. We know that she accused him of lots of untrue things
> which were disproved in court. She may well have told them things
> which she believes to be true, but which are inventions. People
> invent things all the time and remember things in very different
ways
> from each other.
I know that it happens. My parents never went to court of it. He
moved out after he hit her that final time, she filed for divorce,
he didn't contest and then after a few months moved back to
Pennsylvania. He did confirm this to my brother when he was older.
>> But he made a new life for himself and I'd always wondered if
he'd
>> changed, what he was like and why did he find it so easy (at
least
>> it seemed in my child's mind) to walk away from three children?
>
> Barclay virtually bankrupted himself in the process of defending
> himself and trying to get access to his children. He walked away
> only when he felt that carrying on was going to make things harder
> for them, like having their mother put in jail for not giving
access
> to the children repeatedly. Not a day goes by that he doesn't
> grieve, sometime more visibly than at others, but it's like a life
> sentence.
>
> I wouldn't assume that your Dad never thought about you.
I found it odd that his other family, his wife of 25 years and his
son didn't even know our names when he passed away.
When my brother was 16 he decided that he needed to go see his
father. While there, he fell in love with a young girl and stayed
for two years, till they could marry. During that time, my brother
said our bioF was an ahole, and never once asked about either myself
nor my sister. When my brother brought us up, he was met with
disdain over the two little brats he left behind. I was an infant.
My sister was 3 the last time bioF saw us.
When I was ten he gave us up for adoption by my step father. Never
did know that at that time, my step father was molesting and abusing
us. Neither did my mother. I don't think she knows to this day but
that's another story.
>> When he passed away 8 years ago, I cried for three days solid.
It
>> made NO sense. I didn't know him at all. He'd left before I was
>> one y/o. He never tried to contact me, and in his obit, it said
Mr.
>> XX died leaving two sons Kxxx and Mxxx and two daughters. No one
in
>> his new family even knew my or my sister's name.
>
> Barclay has tried repeatedly over the years to send them letters
on
> birthdays and at Christmas, without any response. This is the
first
> time he's tried to contact at an address other than his ex's
though.
Sounds like Barclay is a much better man than my bioF and hopefully
his children will see that. It is a shame that the courts allowed
their mother to do that to him and to their children. I will never
understand why the courts don't do more to prevent such atrocities
happen.
>> I don't know how I would have reacted had he contacted me. I had
>> finally got the nerve up to ask my mom for his address and she
gave
>> it to me the Christmas before he passed away. I never got the
>> gumption up to contact him.
>
> With something so difficult, it's not surprising that you put it
off
> waiting for the right time.
The thing is, I don't think there would ever have been a good time.
He made that clear to my brother that we were not wanted and he was
not happy when my brother went to live with him at 16. He was happy
when my brother left to marry & join the military.
>> I've spent a lot of tears wondering what was wrong with me, that
he
>> could walk away and not look back. I would have liked to know
why
>> he did what he did and his feelings over the years.
>>
>> Contacting them could answer some questions they might have,
though
>> I imagine it will be difficult.
>
> It might raise a whole lot more.
True.
I see you've received a lot of advice, but I thought I should try
and answer your questions you had for me. I know this is a
difficult subject for you as well.
If things had been different, if my mother had bad mouthed him to
us, etc it might make me question, and if my brother didn't
basically confirm the situation, among others, I might question it
more.
During my grandfather's funeral back in '79, I was 18 years old.
Two old biddies were sitting behind me and I overheard one of them
say.."Of course the one in the red dress is one of his children, cut
off her bosom and she looks just like that scoundrel". I got the
impression that scoundrel was how they called a no-good lying,
cheating, abusing scumbag in their day. It made a difficult day
more difficult. I wish I'd had the nerve to turn around and *say*
something to them.
Cal~
Wendy
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c6okl9$hlv$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> I just have this fantasy of Barclay gathering up all the letters and
> gifts he's tried to send over the years and shipping them off to the
> address he's got, with only his phone number and address. Let them
> make of it what they will.
>
> Of course, if he didn't actually get his things returned, that won't
> work.
No, nothing sent back. However, he does still have all the Christmas
presents he bought for them 14 years ago, still wrapped, because he hasn't
the heart to throw them away. When he moved in, it broke my heart seeing
them and packing them away in the loft.
Wendy
> It's a long story [snip]
Clearly also a sad one. Maybe your mother was right about some people not
being cut out for parenthood!
> I found it odd that his other family, his wife of 25 years and his
> son didn't even know our names when he passed away.
It could be he was just someone who wasn't a communicator. It could be he
never talked about it because of the guilt or other emotions it triggered.
> If things had been different, if my mother had bad mouthed him to
> us, etc it might make me question, and if my brother didn't
> basically confirm the situation, among others, I might question it
> more.
I just hope that there is some desire to find out some things for
themselves.
> During my grandfather's funeral back in '79, I was 18 years old.
> Two old biddies were sitting behind me and I overheard one of them
> say.."Of course the one in the red dress is one of his children, cut
> off her bosom and she looks just like that scoundrel". I got the
> impression that scoundrel was how they called a no-good lying,
> cheating, abusing scumbag in their day. It made a difficult day
> more difficult. I wish I'd had the nerve to turn around and *say*
> something to them.
Did your mother or brother have any photos?
Wendy
Wendy
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10831680...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> Roger could give him some advice on changing that if he wants to. Search
> Engine Promotion is one of his favourite topics.
Isn't it just a matter of putting it into Key Words?
> Well I think he needs to be prepared for all four children to find out, or
> only the one of them that receives the letter. That one may not tell the
> others.
I guess he's hoping to connect with them all, just starting with one.
Wendy
ni...@impactwp.com
>
> <ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
> news:10831680...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> > Roger could give him some advice on changing that if he wants to. Search
> > Engine Promotion is one of his favourite topics.
>
> Isn't it just a matter of putting it into Key Words?
Here's Roger's best tips. First, use meta tags and have his name in both the
keywords and the description. Go to www.impactwp.com and feel free to nick
my code if you like, if you don't already know how to do this. Then, include
his name somewhere in the text of the page. Also have a link on the home
page to a page of his name ie barclaysurname.html. Also ensure that the page
title is his name.
Finally try submitter.net. The problem isn't so much the content of the page
but ensuring a listing on the search engines. Submitter have lots of tools
for you to check your pages and they have a 50 dollar service to submit you
everywhere monthly for a year. Roger uses this for clients so it is really
good.
He also said go to axandra.com for a bit of software - even the free one is
useful - called IBP - lets you check your positions for phrases in your
chosen engines, saves you the work of going around.
>
>
> > Well I think he needs to be prepared for all four children to find out,
or
> > only the one of them that receives the letter. That one may not tell the
> > others.
>
> I guess he's hoping to connect with them all, just starting with one.
Of course. But if the one who gets the letter is more upset than the others
they may not tell the others. I guess he has to follow this line of enquiry
all the way before wondering about finding the others. Hopefully, and most
likely, however the first one feels they'll tell the others right away.
I hope it all works out Wendy. How do you feel about the possibility of four
stepchildren and potential stepgranchildren?
Nikki
>
> Wendy
>
>
_calinda_
> Did your mother or brother have any photos?
My mom remarried about a year & 1/2 later, and my stepfather was in
the army and shipped to Italy right away. Mom stored all her
pictures and personal belongings in the family barn while she was
overseas. When she returned she found her mother threw them all
out! Everything right down to her wedding pictures, our baby
pictures and wedding ring.
Mom was devastated, she never got to show us pictures of herself in
a wedding dress, I was 2 1/2, sister was 5ish, brother was 7-ish
when we moved away, and all the pictures that were taken of us
before she left for Europe were gone. She had one picture of me
that she didn't store, that is the only one of me as a baby. She
lost years worth of pictures. My grandmother didn't have the right
to do that.
Then years later, my mother found one picture of him slid inside my
baptismal certificate. It was very dark and fuzzy so I couldn't
tell you much about him, except that he seemed tall. My brother is
6'4", mom is 5'0" so that seems accurate.
My brother never brought any pictures from his time away.
I do wonder about my 'other' brother out there. I wonder if he ever
wonders about us? He'd be in the low to mid 30's I guess.
Cal~
>
> Wendy
Wendy
> I do wonder about my 'other' brother out there. I wonder if he ever
> wonders about us? He'd be in the low to mid 30's I guess.
Have you ever thought about trying to contact him?
Wendy
Wendy
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10832253...@news01.eclipse.net.uk...
> Here's Roger's best tips.
Thank you for the advice and thank Roger too.
> I hope it all works out Wendy. How do you feel about the possibility of
four
> stepchildren and potential stepgranchildren?
It would be the most wonderful gift in the world to see Barclay being given
the chance to build some sort of relationship with his children and family.
I'll be there to support him in whatever way I can. I love babies and
children, so grandchildren won't be a problem.
Wendy