Okay, I've got something on-topic!
WhansaMi
kids. Some--probably even most of it --- is work related. Some of it is
not... "I've got plans." No problem. Well... actually, it has been a bit of a
problem sometimes, when DH and I would like to do stuff together, but they are
old enough where it isn't a *big* problem.
Sunday before last he had called me. He was going to be out of town Thursday,
and asked if he could take them Friday night and most of Saturday, since he
would miss Thursday. (It was my weekend.) It was a holiday weekend, and I
told him I didn't know if we were planning to go to the mountains to take the
kids skiing, but if we didn't, sure, he could have them. He didn't call me
until Thursday night. At that point I told him we'd wait until Saturday to
leave, and he said he had made plans for Friday, and he'd like them Sunday -
Monday. I told him that wouldn't work for us, because of the trip. He sighed
and groaned, but ultimately, he had them Monday night through Wednesday (this)
morning. DH took the kids up to just do day-skiing one day.
Tonight he calls me and says, "Since I've had to cancel so many times lately
for work and... other stuff... I'd like to have them part of next weekend."
[Not this coming weekend, that is his, but the following weekend] I explained
that we only had a few more ski weekend times, and if we couldn't go next
weekend, it would be mid-Feb before they got there again. He said, "Well,
since I've not been able to take them as often as I could, I thought you'd be
more *FLEXIBLE*. (DH says I should have told him I've been VERY flexible,
taking them when it was his responsibility to have them!).
Okay, am I being unreasonable? I want to have an uninterrupted weekend with my
kids. I'd like to be able to take them to our cabin and let them go skiing.
I'd like to see them when we aren't doing homework, getting showers, running
around and when I am not so damned tired, which is what happens during the
weekdays.
Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
Sheila
Lori
"WhansaMi" <whan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040121224214...@mb-m13.aol.com...
No, you are not. The reason he hasn't had them much is by *his* choice to
cancel, not your calling and asking to have part of his time. Good grief!
Parents who don't make an effort with their kids tick me right off. My SS
went to his mom's the Monday after Christmas and stayed until that Friday,
and he's not heard a word from her since. I'm completely on your side with
this one.
Lori
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Karen
with my
> kids. I'd like to be able to take them to our cabin and let them go
skiing.
> I'd like to see them when we aren't doing homework, getting showers,
running
> around and when I am not so damned tired, which is what happens during
the
> weekdays.
>
> Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
>
> Sheila
I don't think so, because it sounds like flexible to him means he gets all
his weekends and if he has to work, he gets to make up on yours.
I would try to work with him, though. Maybe something like part of the work
week, like you did last week? Or asking him if his work schedule has
changed in such a way that you both need to renegotiate the permanent
schedule?
Don't worry about being a b**ch. You know, many times when people don't get
what they want, the easiest and quickest reaction is to make it someone
else's fault.
Karen
rebecca
the
> kids. Some--probably even most of it --- is work related. Some of it is
>
> Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
Nope. You aren't obligated to make up time he chooses to cancel in your
orders, are you? It would be nice if you could be flexible enough to pop in
an occasional extra day or two to accommodate last minute changes, but
Sheila, really, it's not like you guys don't have a set schedule. He
_knows_ when he's supposed to have the kids.
It's unfair not just to you, but also the kids. If I've learned anything,
it's that they come to really depend upon consistency in where and when
they're going to be.
rebecca
Amy Lou
"WhansaMi" <whan...@aol.com> wrote
>
> Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
Absolutely not. You are being assertive (not submissive like he would
prefer) and he cannot argue with that (though I guess he will try - but
that's just because he is being a whiny bully). Stick to your guns!
Amy
_calinda_
> Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
>
> Sheila
Sheila,
What you might want to remind him when he's whining about your need
(in his mind) to be flexible, is that his canceling his time with
the kids when it's scheduled *is* being flexible, and that you all
count on the schedule as it's set. When he cancels the kids, it
causes disruption in your household.
I don't think you are under any obligation to change the schedule to
suit him. I don't blame you either. Currently, my ex takes the
kids out for dinner occasionally and they sleep over when he
cooerces them to go, but he still sees them more waking hours than I
do that isn't obligated to work, school, homework, jobs, band and
guard. I would love to be able to take my kids away for a weekend
uninterrupted. I'd say go for it.. and hmm.. any room for three
more?? <g>
Cal~
jane
>my
>kids. I'd like to be able to take them to our cabin and let them go skiing.
>I'd like to see them when we aren't doing homework, getting showers, running
>around and when I am not so damned tired, which is what happens during the
>weekdays.
>
>Am I being the bitch his tone of voice says I am?
No, of course not, but you can't let that get in the way of your decision. That
way lies life in prison for murder.
Which is more important to the kids, an uninterrupted weekend with your nuclear
family or a weekend with their father?
jane
>
>Sheila
Robbin S.
> He said, "Well,
> since I've not been able to take them as often as I could, I thought you'd
be
> more *FLEXIBLE*. (
That kind of comment would make sense only if you had been one the
requesting, and he accommodating, all the recent schedule changes.
On a related note, our BM has been asking for a lot of changes that have
involved SD spending all or part of the last 8 weekends with us. She said
she's been trying to pick up an extra nursing shift here and there, but I
found out by accident that she's got a new boyfriend out of town and has
been going up there on the weekends!
She got new boobies too, I noticed, which probably means there's a request
for additional CS on the horizon. ;-)
Robbin
Tracey
FWIW, Sheila, no, I don't believe you're being a bitch.
Your DH is correct, IMO, you are being flexible. Your
ex just happens to be defining 'flexible' as 'Letting
me have the kids when I want to have them' at this time
instead of 'Working things out so we all can be happy.'
Tracey
Tracey
even when we *know* we're not being a bitch, other
people can get us to doubt ourselves? Why is that?
Tracey
Geri and sometimes Brian
>for additional CS on the horizon. ;-)
Yeah, ours has a new SUV and a second mortgage on her condo (not to mention a
huge attorney bill) and BM is starting to get antsy about money, too. (It is
not our fault she lives beyond her means.) Of course, she has all of those
things and SD doesn't have curtains at her mom's house (she has a sheet)
because her mom told her she can't afford them. Sigh.
~~Geri~~
~Veni, vidi, visa~
I came, I saw, I shopped!
Geri and sometimes Brian
>even when we *know* we're not being a bitch, other
>people can get us to doubt ourselves? Why is that?
Or even if a person is being a bitch, the key is not to worry about it.
Embrace it!
:-)
The Watsons
"Tracey" <rbran...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:400FFCBB...@aol.com...
> As a sidenote here, isn't it strange how, sometimes,
> even when we *know* we're not being a bitch, other
> people can get us to doubt ourselves? Why is that?
it's called a conscience, and that we try to be the fairest/nicest we can
be, and when we hear "you're being a bitch" we slam the brakes on and go
"wait, Am i?"...
and for me personally, i still have to watch the "let's all be friends"
thing-i dislike conflict...:(
Jess
The Watsons
no, he's being the asshole...:D you Have accomodated, and done a lot of last
minute juggling around that's put ya'll out...
how many days total has he missed, and what's the deal with spring break
this year?
Jess
The Watsons
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20040122114246...@mb-m14.aol.com...
> >She got new boobies too, I noticed, which probably means there's a
request
> >for additional CS on the horizon. ;-)
>
> Yeah, ours has a new SUV and a second mortgage on her condo (not to
mention a
> huge attorney bill) and BM is starting to get antsy about money, too. (It
is
> not our fault she lives beyond her means.) Of course, she has all of
those
> things and SD doesn't have curtains at her mom's house (she has a sheet)
> because her mom told her she can't afford them. Sigh.
*grumbles*
Jess
Tracey
>>even when we *know* we're not being a bitch, other
>>people can get us to doubt ourselves? Why is that?
>Or even if a person is being a bitch, the key is not
>to worry about it. Embrace it!
Well, I always have, but I know that some people don't. :)
I guess, for me, I learned a long time ago that a lot of
the times, I'm only being a 'bitch' when I'm not doing what
someone else wants me to do the way they want me to do it.
In fact, when some people in my life start using 'that tone'
that Sheila mentioned, it just confirms that I'm on the
right track. :)
Tracey
Tracey
>it's called a conscience, and that we try to be the
>fairest/nicest we can be, and when we hear "you're
>being a bitch" we slam the brakes on and go "wait,
>Am i?"...
Yah, I know. Out, out damned conscience, I say!
>and for me personally, i still have to watch the
>"let's all be friends" thing-i dislike conflict...:(
Ask anyone who knows me well, I've never had that
problem. :) Not that I like conflict, just the 'let's
all be friends' thing is not something I've worried
about.
Tracey
The Watsons
> I guess, for me, I learned a long time ago that a lot of
> the times, I'm only being a 'bitch' when I'm not doing what
> someone else wants me to do the way they want me to do it.
> In fact, when some people in my life start using 'that tone'
> that Sheila mentioned, it just confirms that I'm on the
> right track. :)
:D i've learned the phrase "you'll get over it" works real well....:)
Jess
The Watsons
> Yah, I know. Out, out damned conscience, I say!
mine just pops up at the worst times....;(
> Ask anyone who knows me well, I've never had that
> problem. :) Not that I like conflict, just the 'let's
> all be friends' thing is not something I've worried
> about.
i spent a lot of time learning to get over it, and it's still not quite
second nature to just let it be, but i'm a lot better...:)
Jess
jane
>ex just happens to be defining 'flexible' as 'Letting
>me have the kids when I want to have them' at this time
>instead of 'Working things out so we all can be happy.'
>
>Tracey
But you have to be fair. That's not really what he's saying. Sheila said that
most of his cancellations were due to work. And that's wasn't too much of a
problem; Sheila was willing to accommodate him there. So his definition is
more "letting me have the kids when I can get around the requirements of my
job, which you know has been a big problem lately."
I'm not saying which way Sheila should go. I'm just saying that she shouldn't
let her annoyance make the decision.
jane
Tracey
>But you have to be fair.
Nope, don't have to be. In fact, I've given myself permission
to be totally unfair this week. If I like, I'm going to give
myself permission to be unfair for a month. :P
>That's not really what he's saying. Sheila said that most
>of his cancellations were due to work. And that's wasn't
>too much of a problem; Sheila was willing to accommodate
>him there. So his definition is more "letting me have the
>kids when I can get around the requirements of my job, which
>you know has been a big problem lately."
Yabbut.......whether rightly or wrongly, Sheila has gotten
the impression that he's turned his job problems around and
made it *her* fault that he's not able to spend time with
his kids. From what she related of the conversation, because
she's not agreeing with the schedule as he's proposed it,
she's not being flexible, when she seems to have flexed all
over the place for the last few weeks.
One thing that I've noticed over the years when talking to
people in divorce situations is that it's rare when the
parent who has an every other weekend schedule will accept
or suggest weekdays in exchange for a weekend day that they
can't make. And I can see and understand the CP's frustration
when they're deemed unflexible if they don't particularly
want to lose their weekend time with their kids.
I understand that work requirements get in the way of things.
But it's not Sheila's job that is causing the problems, it's
not Sheila's fault that he's unable to see the kids when he's
scheduled to and I don't particularly see that it's Sheila's
responsibility to give up what she wants to do with the kids
because of a job that's not even hers.
Tracey
jane
>But it's not Sheila's job that is causing the problems, it's
>not Sheila's fault that he's unable to see the kids when he's
>scheduled to and I don't particularly see that it's Sheila's
>responsibility
I'm with you right up to there.
> to give up what she wants to do with the kids
>because of a job that's not even hers.
It's Sheila's responsibility to raise her kids. All I'm saying is to decide
this as a parent. Do what's best for your kids. Don't get caught up in
whether he's a narcissistic asshole or you're a bitch. We're the grown ups
now.
And (in an attempt to head of the traditional rewriting of the the OP) yes,
Sheila does have needs too. Yes, they are important, too. That just wasn't
the question here.
jane
>
>Tracey
rebecca
>
> >That's not really what he's saying. Sheila said that most
> >of his cancellations were due to work. And that's wasn't
> >too much of a problem; Sheila was willing to accommodate
> >him there. So his definition is more "letting me have the
> >kids when I can get around the requirements of my job, which
> >you know has been a big problem lately."
You know, Sheila, we had some problems one year about having to cancel times
b/c SO had to work. BM absolutely refused to consider -any- makeup time at
all, which I did think was unfair. I always thought one approach to the
problem might be to add a vacation day or something like that to make up the
difference, up to like 3 or 4 extra days a year. Work stuff does crop up
here and there, there isn't always a way around it. I don't know how you
guys do vacation, but that's one possibility if he doesn't want weekday
times.
Just a thought.
rebecca
Robbin S.
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote :
> It's Sheila's responsibility to raise her kids. All I'm saying is to
decide
> this as a parent. Do what's best for your kids. Don't get caught up in
> whether he's a narcissistic asshole or you're a bitch. We're the grown
ups
> now.
That's far too rational a position. ;)
Wendy
"Robbin S." <rmspoo...@iquest.net> wrote in message
news:bupe0a$knsi8$1...@ID-4846.news.uni-berlin.de...
> That's far too rational a position. ;)
Hey, Robbin, what's happened with the situation with your son, fiance and
his daughter?
Wendy
Robbin S.
"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hey, Robbin, what's happened with the situation with your son, fiance and
> his daughter?
Did you catch the part about how RC made up some of the stuff SD said for
the sole purpose of finding out whether he
A few days later, my son had to get pre-employment drug testing, the results
of which supported his claim of it not being pot. I was really glad that RC
had come to believe this on his own,
Robbin S.
"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
> Hey, Robbin, what's happened with the situation with your son, fiance and
> his daughter?
Did you catch the part about how RC made up some of the stuff SD said for
the sole purpose of finding out whether or not my son was lying? (This did
not make the situation better.) He did come to the conclusion, though, that
while SD saw somebody smoking something, she probably filled in some blanks
and possibly embellished, as was suggested here (he actually read some
posts).
Eventually, RC agreed not to use his police interrogation skills within the
family. A few days later, my son had to get pre employment drug testing, the
results of which supported his initial claim. I was really glad that RC had
come to believe this on his own, and not need "proof."
Vicki Robinson
>
>"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>
>> Hey, Robbin, what's happened with the situation with your son, fiance and
>> his daughter?
>
>Did you catch the part about how RC made up some of the stuff SD said for
>the sole purpose of finding out whether he
OK, now I'm really interested to know what was dropped here! Who is
RC?
>A few days later, my son had to get pre-employment drug testing, the results
>of which supported his claim of it not being pot. I was really glad that RC
>had come to believe this on his own,
>
>
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
Robbin S.
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote:
> OK, now I'm really interested to know what was dropped here! Who is
> RC?
That's what I call my fiancé. I just got tired of typing out the word fiancé
is all. :)
Robbin
Wendy
> Did you catch the part about how RC made up some of the stuff SD said for
> the sole purpose of finding out whether he
Yes I caught that bit, but something is wierd with this post, as there seems
to be bits missing, though I did see the missing bits on our work server.
> A few days later, my son had to get pre-employment drug testing, the
results
> of which supported his claim of it not being pot. I was really glad that
RC
> had come to believe this on his own,
So glad to hear that you've reached agreement about how to proceed and that
your son has been honest with you.
Wendy
WhansaMi
>b/c SO had to work. BM absolutely refused to consider -any- makeup time at
>all, which I did think was unfair. I always thought one approach to the
>problem might be to add a vacation day or something like that to make up the
>difference, up to like 3 or 4 extra days a year. Work stuff does crop up
>here and there, there isn't always a way around it. I don't know how you
>guys do vacation, but that's one possibility if he doesn't want weekday
>times.
>
>Just a thought.
>
>rebecca
Rebecca, the ex has up to three weeks of "vacation" time with the kids (as do
I), but I never keep track of how much he actually spends, so he just takes
them for whatever time he wants. He wouldn't see this as an answer, for that
reason. During the summer he basically takes them for any time he wants, other
than our vacation. We totally scrap the visitation schedule during the summer,
and arrange things so that he doesn't have to do as much transportation, such
as him having them two or three nights in a row. Since I'm off during the
summer it isn't as big a deal for me, so I'm willing to totally work around his
schedule.
Basically, I feel that the ex is cherry-picking. He is working late, and
therefore would be harried and wouldn't be able to spend as much time with
them, so he has me take them that night, and wants, instead, a weekend night,
when he can be more relaxed. I, on the other hand, *do* have them on those
nights when we've had stuff to do, and yes, it is not as pleasant, but do you
see me asking him, "You know, [ex], we had errands to do, and I had to grade
exams and make lessons, so, could I have them on Saturday to make up for the
time I didn't really get to spend quality time with them this week?"
I trade off times with him all the time. My problem is when he want a
different *quality* time than what he forfeited. I can't remember the last
time told him no, he can't have them another night during the weekdays. But,
as I see it there is sleeping time, awake but busy with life time, and then
down time. He wants a disproportionate amount of down time, while leaving me
with a disproportionate amount of awake, but busy time, which is just a LITTLE
better than sleeping time. :-/
Sheila
WhansaMi
>cancel, not your calling and asking to have part of his time. Good grief!
>Parents who don't make an effort with their kids tick me right off. My SS
>went to his mom's the Monday after Christmas and stayed until that Friday,
>and he's not heard a word from her since. I'm completely on your side with
>this one.
>Lori
Lori, I don't want to suggest that the ex doesn't spend time with the kids.
That just isn't true. Lately he's cancelled a lot, but he's scheduled to take
them Tuesday and Thursday nights, and every other weekend, and, for the most
part, he does. Where I start having problems is when he wants to take the
*best* times (the weekends) and leave me with the weekdays, which are usually
filled with homework, showers, making dinner, doing dishes, etc. I'm a working
mom, so these aren't exactly "quality hours"
A couple of years ago he proposed that I take them all week, every week, and he
get them every weekend. Either he doesn't get it, or he does, and he's just
selfish.
Sheila
WhansaMi
>his weekends and if he has to work, he gets to make up on yours.
Yep, that's pretty much it.
>
>I would try to work with him, though. Maybe something like part of the work
>week, like you did last week?
Karen, I can't remember the last time I refused to change one workday for
another. I do that all the time. Even if I weren't inclined to (which I am) I
agreed, in the divorce decree) to try to work with him if his work meant having
to change the schedule. He reminds me of this whenever we have this
conversation.
Sheila
Vicki Robinson
>time told him no, he can't have them another night during the weekdays. But,
>as I see it there is sleeping time, awake but busy with life time, and then
>down time. He wants a disproportionate amount of down time, while leaving me
>with a disproportionate amount of awake, but busy time, which is just a LITTLE
>better than sleeping time. :-/
I dated a guy briefly who thought he was doing his working ex a favor,
taking the kid on the weekends. He thought he was giving her weekends
free to do whatever she wanted to do. Later, when she gave him
custody, the daughter was with the mom every weekend, and he thought
that was terrific. He got to supervise his daughter's school work and
do that kind of thing, and he still had his weekends totally to
himself.
Your ex really might not see things the way you're seeing them.
Vicki
WhansaMi
>
>Nope. You aren't obligated to make up time he chooses to cancel in your
>orders, are you?
The orders actually says.....
Rebecca, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
For YEARS the ex has said to me, "Well, you have to be flexible about allowing
me to make up the time; you agreed to it in the papers." He's threatened to
take me to court to "enforce" it, when I've not let him have my weekends to
make up for his missed weekdays.
So, when you asked this question, I went to the file cabinet and pulled out the
divorce decree. I wanted to look at the exact wording. *IT ISN'T IN THERE!!!*
There is nothing at all in there about him being able to make up time. Of
course, there is the usual, "The parties shall negotiate in good faith to agree
in advance on a schedule for which weekends each shall have custody of the
children" AND there is this (which is the part I thought he was talking about):
"The parties recognize that the husband's job may require overnight travel and
shall consult in good faith on the custody of the children on nigths when
neither Husband nor Wife is available to ahve custody of the children. On the
request of the Wife, Husband shall arrange for a sitter for those nights when
neither husband nor wife, nor any other mutually agreeable person, is available
to have physical custody of the children."
All this says, if I am reading it right, is that if he goes out of town on
business, and I can't take them (has never happened!) that it is up to him to
find a babysitter!
I've combed the whole damned order, and there is NOTHING that says I have to
even be willing to give him any time at all, much less that I have to give up
my weekends!
Thanks for asking the question. I've not looked at this order for YEARS, and
just took it for granted that he was telling the truth!
Sheila
WhansaMi
>What you might want to remind him when he's whining about your need
>(in his mind) to be flexible, is that his canceling his time with
>the kids when it's scheduled *is* being flexible, and that you all
>count on the schedule as it's set. When he cancels the kids, it
>causes disruption in your household.
>
>I don't think you are under any obligation to change the schedule to
>suit him. I don't blame you either. Currently, my ex takes the
>kids out for dinner occasionally and they sleep over when he
>cooerces them to go, but he still sees them more waking hours than I
>do that isn't obligated to work, school, homework, jobs, band and
>guard.
Exactly! Cherry-picking, that is! Wanting to have all of the best time, and
less of the work time!
I would love to be able to take my kids away for a weekend
>uninterrupted. I'd say go for it.. and hmm.. any room for three
>more?? <g>
Yeppers. Got PLENTY of room! Come on out!
Sheila
>
>Cal~
WhansaMi
>nuclear
>family or a weekend with their father?
>
>jane
Actually, the kids prefer their weekends with me -- for different reasons for
each of them.
DD and I are very close. She doesn't really like to be away from me for a long
time (probably part of the adoption issues, I think). She would love to go
over there, spend a couple of hours with him, and come back home every night.
DS likes his weekends with me because I allow him to be a bum for at least one
day each weekend. Recently, I asked him where his dream vacation would take
him, he said, "Home". He loves to read. He loves RPGs on the computer. He
loves to play games. He loves to spend all day in his pjs, never getting
dressed. His dad insists that he *do* stuff. When they get back from their
weekends over there, it sounds like they are booked from 8 a.m. to 10 p.m. the
whole time. DS complains that he doesn't get to sleep in. He complains he
gets no time to relax. He does here.
Sheila
WhansaMi
>
>Your DH is correct, IMO, you are being flexible. Your
>ex just happens to be defining 'flexible' as 'Letting
>me have the kids when I want to have them' at this time
>instead of 'Working things out so we all can be happy.'
>
>Tracey
Tracey, but you see, his time is more *valuable* than mine! He once told me so
---using our salaries to illustrate the point! ;-)
Sheila
WhansaMi
>even when we *know* we're not being a bitch, other
>people can get us to doubt ourselves? Why is that?
>
Tracey, I suppose, in this case, it is because it *does* mean that he is seeing
the kids less, and it *does* mean they are seeing him less. That is why I
don't hesitate to trade one weeknight for another. I don't want to keep him
from seeing the kids, or them from seeing him. I'm just tired of him feeling
like he should have all the quality time, and I should have the grunt-work
time.
Sheila
WhansaMi
>>ex just happens to be defining 'flexible' as 'Letting
>>me have the kids when I want to have them' at this time
>>instead of 'Working things out so we all can be happy.'
>>
>>Tracey
>
>But you have to be fair. That's not really what he's saying. Sheila said
>that
>most of his cancellations were due to work. And that's wasn't too much of a
>problem; Sheila was willing to accommodate him there. So his definition is
>more "letting me have the kids when I can get around the requirements of my
>job, which you know has been a big problem lately."
It isn't only that, but it is the question of *when* the made up time occurs,
as I've said in the other posts.
Sheila
WhansaMi
>Sheila does have needs too. Yes, they are important, too. That just wasn't
>the question here.
>jane
<thud>
;-)
WhansaMi
>But,
>>as I see it there is sleeping time, awake but busy with life time, and then
>>down time. He wants a disproportionate amount of down time, while leaving
>me
>>with a disproportionate amount of awake, but busy time, which is just a
>LITTLE
>>better than sleeping time. :-/
>
>I dated a guy briefly who thought he was doing his working ex a favor,
>taking the kid on the weekends. He thought he was giving her weekends
>free to do whatever she wanted to do. Later, when she gave him
>custody, the daughter was with the mom every weekend, and he thought
>that was terrific. He got to supervise his daughter's school work and
>do that kind of thing, and he still had his weekends totally to
>himself.
>
>Your ex really might not see things the way you're seeing them.
>
>Vicki
Vicki, nice thought, but I can't even get him to help them do projects on the
weekends that he has them, remember? It is clear that, no, he doesn't want to
do all that "maintenance" stuff. And, I've sure as hell told him *I* don't
want to do it! :-)
Sheila
Lori
"WhansaMi" <whan...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040123220216...@mb-m23.aol.com...
> The reason he hasn't had them much is by *his* choice to
> >cancel, not your calling and asking to have part of his time. Good
grief!
> >Parents who don't make an effort with their kids tick me right off. My
SS
> >went to his mom's the Monday after Christmas and stayed until that
Friday,
> >and he's not heard a word from her since. I'm completely on your side
with
> >this one.
> >Lori
>
> Lori, I don't want to suggest that the ex doesn't spend time with the
kids.
> That just isn't true. Lately he's cancelled a lot, but he's scheduled to
take
> them Tuesday and Thursday nights, and every other weekend, and, for the
most
> part, he does. Where I start having problems is when he wants to take the
> *best* times (the weekends) and leave me with the weekdays, which are
usually
> filled with homework, showers, making dinner, doing dishes, etc. I'm a
working
> mom, so these aren't exactly "quality hours"
OK, well, let me ask you this, how often has he tried to take the quality
hours that are yours? Maybe my feelings re SS's mother were coloring my
response. If *most* of the time, this doesn't happen, then maybe it
wouldn't hurt to be flexible this time? I'd say it's dependent on whether
or not this is a frequent practice of his.
>
> A couple of years ago he proposed that I take them all week, every week,
and he
> get them every weekend. Either he doesn't get it, or he does, and he's
just
> selfish.
Yeah, that would be selfish, no doubt about it.
Lori
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Wendy
> Tracey, but you see, his time is more *valuable* than mine! He once told
me so
> ---using our salaries to illustrate the point! ;-)
That was the day you left him, I hope.
Wendy
Anne Robotti
Or the day you killed him.
Anne
WhansaMi
No, that was a couple of years ago, five or six years after we divorced.
Now, during our marriage, he did use that argument to justify why he wouldn't
go out to buy his own shoes -- my time was worth $0.00 per hour, because I was
staying at home with the kids.
Sheila
WhansaMi
>kids.
>> That just isn't true. Lately he's cancelled a lot, but he's scheduled to
>take
>> them Tuesday and Thursday nights, and every other weekend, and, for the
>most
>> part, he does. Where I start having problems is when he wants to take the
>> *best* times (the weekends) and leave me with the weekdays, which are
>usually
>> filled with homework, showers, making dinner, doing dishes, etc. I'm a
>working
>> mom, so these aren't exactly "quality hours"
>
>OK, well, let me ask you this, how often has he tried to take the quality
>hours that are yours? Maybe my feelings re SS's mother were coloring my
>response. If *most* of the time, this doesn't happen, then maybe it
>wouldn't hurt to be flexible this time? I'd say it's dependent on whether
>or not this is a frequent practice of his.
Well, according to my calendar, he changes SOMETHING about every third week. A
cancellation. A switching from Thursday to Wednesday. He asks for a weekend
to "make up" about.... I dunno, about every seven weeks or so... 5-7 times a
year, I think. I've probably accomodated him 30 to 40% of those times, by
letting him have them on a Friday night or taking them over on a Sunday night.
I guess adding to my frustration is that I feel I am also flexible all the time
on the issue of time, and he doesn't seem to see that as important. He is
supposed to get them at 5:30. AT LEAST once a week, he will call me at work,
or leave a message on the answering machine at home, saying, "I may be running
late at work, don't leave until I call you." So, I'm basically waiting around
to be at his beck and call (I take them to his house, he brings them back to
mine, or to school). Half the time he will call back and say, yeah, come on at
the regular time, and half the time he'll call back and push the time back by
30 minutes to an hour.
I don't mind being flexible about time. I'm a "P", remember? And, I do
understand about work commitments. But, he doesn't see this as a way that I go
out of my way to accomodate him, he just sees this as something I am SUPPOSED
to do. And, I have to admit, it sometimes annoys me that I'm still having to
cater to him eight years after the divorce. Here I am sitting by the phone,
cooling my heels, waiting for him to call me. NOT a good image in my head!
Yesterday, he call at 4:45 and said not to bring them until 6:15, he had to
work later. Traffic was bad so I got there at 6:20, and he didn't get there
until 6:40, which meant the kids and I sat in the car for 20 minutes. DH and I
had planned to have dinner together not far from the ex's house at 6:30. I was
twenty minutes late for dinner. Now, it wasn't a big deal in the greater
scheme of things. DH just got the seats and ordered an appetizer for us, but
still.
Oh, by the way, when I mentioned to him, a couple of years ago, that I did feel
I was accomodating him by being willing to bring them later and such, he
informed me that since "I" was the beneficiary of the child support that I get
because of his job, that I damned well *should* be flexible.
I guess this is what really bothers me.... it is the attitude. That he's
entitled to this. That I *owe* it to him. That my time isn't important. That
I should still be at his beck and call.
Sheila
_calinda_
> Yesterday, he call at 4:45 and said not to bring them until 6:15,
he
> had to work later. Traffic was bad so I got there at 6:20, and he
> didn't get there until 6:40, which meant the kids and I sat in the
> car for 20 minutes.
Egads, Sheila.. this would be more than I would/could take. I
forget, how old are the kids were talking about here? At what point
does he see that they will be old enough to have a key? Does he
consider them family members of his household, or does he see them
as visitors? Does he ever allow them to be home alone for an hour
or two, if need be? I thought you had a teen of around 14 or so?
At what point do you think this waiting around for his schedule will
end for you?
I think I would insist that he either pick them up himself if he's
not willing to give them a key, and then I would just go ahead and
keep any plans I've made. Geez Sheila, you're too damn nice to your
ex, which would be fine, if he was willing to treat you in kind, but
it sure sounds one sided to me.
For the record, only twice have I agreed to meet him half way to
pick up the kids. He complains constantly that he has to do all the
driving, at which point I remind him of two things 1) he was the
one that moved an hour away 2) he does none of the
school/band/work/guard/activity driving some of which starts as
early as 5:30am and ends after midnight. That usually shuts him up
for a few weeks, when all the complaining starts up again. In one
ear, out the other as far as I'm concerned.
Cal~
WhansaMi
>he
>> had to work later. Traffic was bad so I got there at 6:20, and he
>> didn't get there until 6:40, which meant the kids and I sat in the
>> car for 20 minutes.
>
>Egads, Sheila.. this would be more than I would/could take. I
>forget, how old are the kids were talking about here? At what point
>does he see that they will be old enough to have a key? Does he
>consider them family members of his household, or does he see them
>as visitors? Does he ever allow them to be home alone for an hour
>or two, if need be? I thought you had a teen of around 14 or so?
>At what point do you think this waiting around for his schedule will
>end for you?
I don't know why he doesn't give them a key. Yes, he does leave them home
alone sometimes. I guess I'll ask.
>
>I think I would insist that he either pick them up himself if he's
>not willing to give them a key, and then I would just go ahead and
>keep any plans I've made. Geez Sheila, you're too damn nice to your
>ex, which would be fine, if he was willing to treat you in kind, but
>it sure sounds one sided to me.
Well, thanks. I do understand that, in our area, traffic is VERY bad, and I do
understand that his job can be demanding, and I try to work with him as much as
possible. Shoot, I've been ten or fifteen minutes late getting them to his
house because of traffic before too. Of course, he's *in* his house, not
sitting out in the car, but still, I understand the need to be flexible. It's
just, when I do that, he seems to feel I should make all the compromises, all
the concessions. Inch/mile kind of thing.
>
>For the record, only twice have I agreed to meet him half way to
>pick up the kids. He complains constantly that he has to do all the
>driving, at which point I remind him of two things 1) he was the
>one that moved an hour away 2) he does none of the
>school/band/work/guard/activity driving some of which starts as
>early as 5:30am and ends after midnight. That usually shuts him up
>for a few weeks, when all the complaining starts up again. In one
>ear, out the other as far as I'm concerned.
Well, he asked for, and I agreed, to each providing 1/2 of the transportation.
I don't really mind most of the time. He DOES mind, and tries to get out of
doing the trip whenever possible. For instance, on occasions when DH and I
have been out and about on Sunday afternoons, we may find ourselves not that
far from his house in the late afternoon (usually 10 or 15 minutes out of our
way). I'll call him and ask if he would like for us to pick up the kids,
rather than him driving over (a 75 to 90 minute round trip). Great, not a
problem. I don't mind going a few minutes out of my way. OTOH, the airport he
usually flies out of is about 12 minutes from our house, so a few times a year
he'll say that he'll come and pick up the kids instead of me driving over.
He'll take them back to school in the morning. But, of course, the next time
we talk it is, "Well, you should do both ends of the transportation over the
weekend, because I came to get them Tuesday afternoon." I've mentioned that I
never expect to get "reimbursed" in situations like this, and he says stuff
like "Well, it doesn't happen as much with you." Not true, if I am remembering
correctly, but even if it is, what difference does that make? I could still
insist that he come out on Tuesday night (with the traffic) to get them the
next time! Again, this is another of those instances where I feel like I'm
being nice and cooperative, and I'm not getting credit, and it is not
reciprocated.
Sheila
Dulles airport is 10 minutes from my house.
>
>Cal~
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
Vicki Robinson
>I don't mind being flexible about time. I'm a "P", remember? And, I do
>understand about work commitments. But, he doesn't see this as a way that I go
>out of my way to accomodate him, he just sees this as something I am SUPPOSED
>to do.
When my ex and I split, I moved to a house in the same town, same
school district so the kids could continue in their school. My ex
moved to the city, about 20 minutes or so away. He asked me if I'd be
flexible about driving, since getting here and back was a 40 minute
round-trip for him, and in the spirit of parental cooperation I said
OK.
What that turned into was his expectation that, for anything that the kids
had on his weekend in our town (play practice, a birthday party,
whatever), he'd drive them there, I'd drive them back. No matter
what. When I told him I had plans one evening, he was *very* put out
at the notion that he'd have to drive back into our town in the
evening to pick up one of the girls. I was supposed to arrange my
plans around this.
So, finally, I built up my courage and called him and told him that
this wasn't working; I had understood it to be an occasional thing, to
help him out, not an expectation that I'd always be available. I
reminded him that I never asked him for driving help on my weekends,
that he was the one that moved to the city, away from the girls'
activities, and that, while I was still happy to help in a real pinch,
I wasn't going to drive on my weekends as a matter of course. He
shouted, he slammed the phone down, he declared that all of our
co-parenting success was over now due to my selfishness, he blustered,
he misrepresented what I was saying, it went on and on, but I stayed
calm, stated and re-stated my case, and we finally hung up with him
still furious and accusing. But he's done the driving on his own
weekends now.
Once Stevie got her driver's license, things got much easier, too.
WhansaMi
Oooohhhh!!! I know that conversation!!!
But he's done the driving on his own
>weekends now.
>
>Once Stevie got her driver's license, things got much easier, too.
Yep. I'm counting the days until DS has his license.
So is DH. We are giving DS the Focus to use, and DH will get his RX8. ;-)
Sheila
>
>Vicki
Anne Robotti
>Now, during our marriage, he did use that argument to justify why he wouldn't
>go out to buy his own shoes -- my time was worth $0.00 per hour, because I was
>staying at home with the kids.
Okay, I'm going to need his address.
Jane, get my gun.
Anne
jane
>
>Anne
I'm on it, baby.
jane
rebecca
>
> >
> >Nope. You aren't obligated to make up time he chooses to cancel in your
> >orders, are you?
>
> The orders actually says.....
>
> Rebecca, THANK YOU, THANK YOU, THANK YOU!!!
why, you're welcome.
>
> For YEARS the ex has said to me, "Well, you have to be flexible about
allowing
> me to make up the time; you agreed to it in the papers." He's threatened
to
> take me to court to "enforce" it, when I've not let him have my weekends
to
> make up for his missed weekdays.
See, this just pisses me off. I _hate_ when people make threats like that,
it's so childish. While I do have some sympathy for him, Sheila, I
understand work problems,
#1 he has a lot of time with them (you said 2 weeknights and EOW, right?)
When we were going through this we had, like, 9 hours a week or something,
and
#2 Flexibility goes both ways. If _he's_ the one changing things, I think
it's on him to be more accommodating.
> There is nothing at all in there about him being able to make up time.
AND there is this (which is the part I thought he was talking about):
>
> "The parties recognize that the husband's job may require overnight travel
and
> shall consult in good faith on the custody of the children on nigths when
> neither Husband nor Wife is available to ahve custody of the children. On
the
> request of the Wife, Husband shall arrange for a sitter for those nights
when
> neither husband nor wife, nor any other mutually agreeable person, is
available
> to have physical custody of the children."
>
> All this says, if I am reading it right, is that if he goes out of town on
> business, and I can't take them (has never happened!) that it is up to him
to
> find a babysitter!
That's what I would interpret it as too. Gee, bummer for him that he chose
that threat one too many times, huh? How do your kids handle the
inconsistency? See, mine would be freaking out if the schedule were so
fluid, he really counts on the time with both parents.
rebecca
Amy Lou
So his definition is
> >more "letting me have the kids when I can get around the requirements of
my
> >job, which you know has been a big problem lately."
>
> It isn't only that, but it is the question of *when* the made up time
occurs,
> as I've said in the other posts.
How about next time he says "I can't have the kids <whatever day>" you jump
in with "that's OK, I'll keep them but why don't you take them <insert day
that suits you> to make up for it?" In other words instead of waiting for
him to suggest what day *he* wants them you get in first. Then you don't
look like you are being inflexible and if he disagrees with your suggested
day then you can even say *he* is being inflexible! :)
Amy
Wendy
"Amy Lou" <amyl...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:KLIQb.26747$Wa.1...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> How about next time he says "I can't have the kids <whatever day>" you
jump
> in with "that's OK, I'll keep them but why don't you take them <insert day
> that suits you> to make up for it?" In other words instead of waiting for
> him to suggest what day *he* wants them you get in first. Then you don't
> look like you are being inflexible and if he disagrees with your suggested
> day then you can even say *he* is being inflexible! :)
This is a good point, Amy. I know with my ex that he is continually
chopping and changing things to do with work, squash games and other things
too, and I'm usually pretty flexible about it, but it really irritated me
the way that he'd let everything else interfere with his time with the
children. I got to the stage where if he asked to me to have the children
on a different night, I'd say "sure, how about swapping for x, so I can do
y," or "what day did you want to swap that for?"
I stopped that after a while though, because the children felt that they
were a duty/obligation, rather than a joy to be around, and I didn't want
them to feel the way I had during my marriage.
Wendy
Wendy
Rupa Bose
Again, this is another of those instances where I feel like I'm
> being nice and cooperative, and I'm not getting credit, and it is not
> reciprocated.
I'm not in your shoes, but if I were, I think I could easily be doing
the same things, and feeling the same way.
Look at it this way: If he'd been so sensible and co-operative and
recognized your value -- maybe you'd still be together. He didn't, and
you aren't, and Anne's going to kill him as soon as Jane gets her gun.
In other words -- you're expecting too much. You want him to change
when he has no incentive to do so. He has a different mindset than
you; he overvalues his contribution, and undervalues yours, and it's
been that way for years.
Of course, this is easy to say for an outsider.
I still think that if I was where you are -- I'd be doing the same
thing.
Rupa
Lori
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:ig55109fljc7cqn52...@4ax.com...
For real! How can *anybody* realistically believe that the time of an at
home mother is worth $0?!!!
Lori
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Lori
Well, he's wrong. You aren't married to him anymore. Flexibility goes both
ways, not just one. I can see being flexible in a marriage, but even then,
once it's not going both ways, well, it's not really a marriage is it? I
think I'd point out things like that, if it were me, but then again, I
occasionaaly have a bit of an attitude. BTW, anybody miss me the past
couple days?? Couldn't sit up long enough to get on computer.
Lori
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Lori
Taking over the lead in "Annie Get Your Gun"? :-)
Geri and sometimes Brian
>couple days?? Couldn't sit up long enough to get on computer.
Why not?
~~Geri~~
~Veni, vidi, visa~
I came, I saw, I shopped!
Lori
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:buu083$k76gq$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de...
Now in our case, when we first got visitation with SS, his mom dug in her
heels on the transportation issue and refused to share the driving. So
once, when I was the one to go get him, I asked her what made her feel that
the entire responsibility was my DH's. She went off about how he
"abandoned" his son to move 70 miles away. I deflated her right quick by
reminding her that this child wasn't even legally his until well after we
moved, in fact, he was never even served with paternity until after we
moved, and there was valid medical reason to believe he couldn't
biologically father a child. She then said " well, he said he'd marry me".
I pointed out the reasons that was a stupid argument ... one, this is a no
fault divorce state, if he *wanted* to be married to her, I couldn't stop
him, two, he had no moral right to make that promise, and given that he
admitted to much worse, I know he didn't do that. Three, I asked her if she
had *ever* met anyone who was able to *make* hime do something he didn't
want to do, and last but not least, I pointed out that we had been
reconciled for well over a year by then, did she really believe that if the
stress we'd already had didn't break us up, anything she could do to make
this worse would do the trick? At that point she agreed to share the
driving 50/50, if we'd meet in the middle between our cities. And when she
later decided to move a good 20 minutes further away, she didn't even *ask*
us to adjust the meet place.
Lori
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Lori
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20040126230522...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> > BTW, anybody miss me the past
> >couple days?? Couldn't sit up long enough to get on computer.
>
> Why not?
>
Sick. Saturday morning, I woke with chest pains and difficulty breathing.
DH called off work and took me to urgent care center. Blood pressure was
172/98, which, though I do take blood pressure meds, was at least partially
due to pain and fear they would make me go into the hospital. As it turns
out, I have chest wall inflamation and rib cartilage irritation, probably
caused by a fall I took before Christmas, when I missed a step coming down
from choir practice. I wear bifocals, and sometimes, if you aren't paying
real good attention, that can cause you to miss a step.We knew I'd injured
my right foot, knee and leg, and the tendons in my left arm, but didn't know
about this. They changed my blood pressure meds, I'm taking a strong
anti-inflamatory, and they gave me a toradol injection, which hurt like fury
going in, but was definitely worth the pain after that! :-)
Lori
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