The latest wars (rant, sorta long)
Vicki Robinson
>You know, I have to wonder how intact families survive when parents can't
>just send the kids back to their other home every few days... I think I'd
>go insane without the time off
>
I have often said that everyone should have an ex who takes the kids
now and then. The worst part of parenthood is that there are no days
off; in an intact family your kids are there, 24/7, and, as much as
you love them, you *need* a break now and then. I remember the first
weekend that my newly-ex-husband took the kids for the entire weekend.
Did I miss them? Yes. But I *loved* the freedom. It was pure
luxury, a whole two days in which I didn't have to think of anyone but
myself. At the time, my kids were 4 and 7 and still required a lot of
hands-on maintenance, and the time off was amazingly needed.
But this isn't the point, is it.
>So, I'm expecting a letter from mom's atty asking for a change of custody
>for Jessica saying she no longer wants to be here. The story?
>
[snipped]
Kim, it strikes me that this incident must have more essential
importance than impresses me at this distance. The basic event was a
very typical example of teenaged branelessness that infects the entire
age cohort. My own response to it would have been a 2 minute rant
about what they were using for brains and an expectation of an
immediate clean-up, with the extraction of a promise to start
*thinking* sometime in the near future. End of story. The entire
group should have been scolded en masse, no chances for anyone to
mis-remember without witnesses. It wasn't a huge sin, it was
overexuberant fun that got out of hand without any severe damage.
Kids do this, all the time.
My impression is that the adults in this drama took an essentially
annoying event and made far too big a deal of it. This kind of thing
doesn't require long private discussions. Part of my mass rant would
have been "New rule: from now on, no one locks anyone out of the
house." Why? Because I don't *want* to engage them in a discussion.
What they did was moderately stupid, not evil, they know it, I know
it, they know that I know, simply state the obvious, make them do the
clean-up (with supervision and very picky evaluation of outcomes), and
*move on*. Nothing is to be gained by lots of dialog, except that
they learn that they can capture your attention and extract a lot of
high-energy engagement by doing these things. What should have taken
15 minutes to put to rights now is a long, drawn-out drama with far
more dire consequences than needed to happen.
>
>Well, I guess I should have seen all that coming. But I didn't think it
>right that Jess (or her friends, who are surely conditioned to hate me
>before meeting me) be able to make up stories about me without there being
>any consequence. DH at some juncture said, "No harm no foul. I knew she
>was lying" but came around when I pointed out that it's not okay to lie
>just because the other person doesn't believe you
>
The friend lied because she was ashamed and afraid. It's not ok, of
course not, but the answer isn't to banish her, the answer is to let
Jess know that you and DH know the truth, and so does the friend.
That you're disappointed that she doesn't have enough strength to come
clean, but she *is* now backed into a corner and the little "fib" that
she thought she was telling in solidarity with her bud has now become
a violation of one of the Commandments. (Well, it is, actually, isn't
it. Bearing false witness and all that. But you know what I mean.)
To admit to her lie now would be to open herself up to a much greater
shit storm than was warranted in the first place, so she's sticking to
it. I've known adults to stick to much stupider stories.
>I'm thinking it hasn't occured to Jess yet that she has her bday party
>planned here two weeks from now and her friend won't be welcome. I'm sure
>she'll change the location of her party and tell mom she doesn't want to
>come anymore (we just *changed* custody from both kids every other
>Thurs-Mon plus 3 wks summer and holiday stuff to 50-50 for SS and
>Thurs-Sun for SD with no holiday or summer extensions)
>
You do, of course, have to do what you think is right. I think,
though, that the consequences of banning her friend may be worse than
putting the whole thing behind you and going forward. It gives her a
genuinely compelling reason to hate you, one that seems to have
unarguable truth (from her POV) behind it.
>It's really hard when someone living in the house part time considers you
>a sworn enemy (even though there is no disrespect on the surface -- all
>her attempts to disrupt things are underhanded). It's harder thinking that
>I need to welcome her friends, who no doubt hear things about me through
>quite an amazing filter
>
Exactly. Just so. Which is why you need to say what you need to say
in front of everyone, state the rules and consequences and then *let
it go*. The best part of being a parent is having the last word,
which you do, since you make the rules. Your home is not a democracy
and your children are not your equals. You have the authority to say
"Make it so, Number One" and expect it to be made so. (Not that you
can treat them entirely without regard for their feelings, but you
know what I mean.) If you can be fair and not go overboard, Jess'
friends could become your allies, you know. It can happen.
In reading this over, it comes across as unsympathetic, and I'm not,
truly. But I do know what it means to be too close and too involved
in the larger picture, so that a particular incident becomes far more
important than it really is, in and of itself. The flip side of
getting to make the rules is the necessity of being able to maintain a
little objectivity and balance.
One day at a time, Kimileh, and remember the Serenity Prayer.
Teenagers do the damndest things, things that leave you goggling and
open-mouthed, then they turn around and act like they're coming up on
their 45th birthday. And this is within a 10-minute time period.
Chin up!
Vicki
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Kyle & Kim's Mom
>I have often said that everyone should have an ex who takes the kids
>now and then. The worst part of parenthood is that there are no days
>off; in an intact family your kids are there, 24/7, and, as much as
>you love them, you *need* a break now and then.
This is where grandparents come in ...
>If you can be fair and not go overboard, Jess'
>friends could become your allies, you know.
And this is an absolutely wonderful thing if you can make it happen...
--
Pam
Kyle and Kimberlee's Mom
Click p...@vircom.net to reply or
remove nospam from address to reply.
carol koponen
I can so relate. I gave my life for my SD. I was room mom, girl scout,
leader, PTO secretary, VP Just Say No, Camp Coordinator, chauffeur,
hairdresser, personal shopper, consultant....and now she is 14 and I am
the enemy.
I have supposedly beat her, sworn at her, lied and stolen. ME and
adult. She has the inlaws convinvced and the ex, et al. She tried with
my family, but they shut her down immediately.
After 4 years of living with us (she always lived with Dad) she move 2
yrs ago to Moms.
She went from a 3.5 gpa to a 1.5, she smokes drinks swears and probably
having sex. She lives in another state. And constinues her crap about
me.
Despite all this...I am so sad that her life is being wasted. She will
be like her mom, acomplete nothing. But I go on.
My husband and I have a great marriage now and a terrific 2 year old.
Life does get better.
Good luck.
Carol
Merrie
having to engage in an argument with the kids."
Don't banter about the "she said I said" kind of stuff. For some
reason you felt like you needed to defend yourself to your spouse. I
would guess that this isn't the first time. With siblings I often see a
pattern of victim, aggressor and judge - usually with a parent being the
judge and two kids desperately pointing fingers at each other vying to
be the victim and not the soon to be punished aggressor. You shouldn't
need to defend yourself to your husband - you are a judge and you two
get to consult each other like judges. The conversation shouldn't have
been about who's telling the truth, but rather what do we do to help
Jessica not be a compulsive liar.
(By the way we had a compulsive liar for a while - we called him on
every little thing that we thought *might* be a lie. Some of those
times he may have been telling the truth but he could see that our lack
of trust was due to those times when we called him on lies and were
correct. It was plain to him that our lack of trust was justified and
he has eventually earned more of that trust back.)
I don't think a change in custody could actually revolve around
this...it's not the type of problem that will be fixed by a little less
visitation. Getting bio-mom to change custody to less visitation would
seem more like Jessica's way of trying to punish you and Dad. Hope
bio-mom can sense this.
I know you were venting so I'll shut up now - but with one other
unasked for recommendation concerning the upcoming birthday party. Give
Jessica's friend another chance: but arrange a meeting with Jessica, her
friend and her friend's parents. I know this may sound uncomfortable
but I gaurantee this will help her friend comply with your house rules.
Kids are so much more polite when they know that you know their
parents. Treating siblings politely (not locking them out of the house)
is a rule and it was Jessica's responsiblity to make sure her guests
follow the rules. Explain this and express how much Jessica would still
like her friend to come to her birthday.
Don't wait for the fallout and then have a reaction. Be proactive and
handle this the way you have pre-decided.
Best of luck - Merrie
Kim Scheinberg wrote:
>
> You know, I have to wonder how intact families survive when parents can't
> just send the kids back to their other home every few days... I think I'd
> go insane without the time off
>
> So, I'm expecting a letter from mom's atty asking for a change of custody
> for Jessica saying she no longer wants to be here. The story?
>
> Both kids have friends sleep over. In the AM the boys want to earn money
> washing the car. The girls are swimming. We go out for 45 minutes. We come
> back and SS says, "Jessica locked me out of the house"
>
> Well, this is confusing because SS knows we keep a key hidden. Turns out,
> the key is useless (on the front door) b/c SD *bolted* it. Okay, I think
> DH is going to put his fist through the door knocking so hard. I go in
> with my key through the garage door in time to hear Jess say, "Ohmygod,
> it's my father. Open the door!"
>
> Well, behind the locked front door, the floor is *soaked*. I mean, three
> bath towels worth soaked. We ask for explanations. Seems the girls got
> careless trying to hose the boys...
>
> Jess insists that *she* didn't lock SS out. She was on the phone the whole
> time and "didn't know". Um, sure. Her room is less than twenty feet from
> the front door
>
> So we say, "Okay, since your friend did it, your friend is going home.
> Right now."
>
> Well, we get the expected battle about this. Jess insists her friend
> didn't know it was a 'wrong' thing to do and she herself of course is
> innocent. No matter, friend has clothes in the dryer that need to finish
> drying so we take everyone home an hour or so later. In the interim...
>
> DH goes into SD's room to have a chat with her about this. Friend comes
> out into the family room where I ask, in a calm manner, "I'd like to know
> why you think it's okay for you, as a guest in our home, to lock out a
> member of this family?"
>
> Well, she apologizes, says it was just a game, and I say she needs to
> follow the rules of this household and locking out people who live here
> is definitely against the rules
>
> Three hours later, everyone is gone. DH and I are taking a drive and DH
> says, "Jessica says you yelled at her friend and said, 'What the HELL do
> you think gives you the right...'" Well, DH knows I wouldn't say such a
> thing (particularly twenty minutes after the incident when I've had time
> to calm down) and tells Jess as much. Jess insists that's what I said.
> They are in the middle of this when the phone rings. The convo is
> abandoned
>
> So later that eve, DH calls SD (who's now back at mom's) and asks, again,
> what happened. He asks if friend *said* I said that, or if Jess
> interpreted her friend's remark that way. Well, Jess' friend happens to be
> there during the call. Jess asks her again, and friend insists that I
> said, "What the *hell*..." DH asks her again if she's *sure* it's her
> friend who said that, and explains further that if that's the case, her
> friend, who is clearly looking to stir up trouble, won't be allowed here
> anymore. Well, Jess sticks to her guns. Insists that I'm lying about what
> happened and friend is telling the truth. DH asks why Jess would believe
> her friend's word over mine. Silly question, I know. Anyway, the end
> result is Jess says, "Friend doesn't want to come to your house anyway!
> She doesn't like the way you and Kim treat her! I hope you're happy now!.
> She's my best friend."
>
> Well, I guess I should have seen all that coming. But I didn't think it
> right that Jess (or her friends, who are surely conditioned to hate me
> before meeting me) be able to make up stories about me without there being
> any consequence. DH at some juncture said, "No harm no foul. I knew she
> was lying" but came around when I pointed out that it's not okay to lie
> just because the other person doesn't believe you
>
> I'm thinking it hasn't occured to Jess yet that she has her bday party
> planned here two weeks from now and her friend won't be welcome. I'm sure
> she'll change the location of her party and tell mom she doesn't want to
> come anymore (we just *changed* custody from both kids every other
> Thurs-Mon plus 3 wks summer and holiday stuff to 50-50 for SS and
> Thurs-Sun for SD with no holiday or summer extensions)
>
> It's really hard when someone living in the house part time considers you
> a sworn enemy (even though there is no disrespect on the surface -- all
> her attempts to disrupt things are underhanded). It's harder thinking that
> I need to welcome her friends, who no doubt hear things about me through
> quite an amazing filter
>
> -k. waiting for the fallout to start
Dean Barker
my wife and I have conversations together with the kid.
We are equal authorities in the house. You are perfectly
within your right to send the friends home, have a discussion
with your kids and then have a discussion with the friend's
parents so they know what is going on. The kids should have
no power to incriminate you, they are kids, they are not
allowed a jury and trial, its your house, you can get mad and
send them all home if you want to. If you choose not to have
one or all of the friends in your house for the upcoming bday
party that should be your right and your husband ought to back
you on that. Another option may be to allow the kids back, but
tell them they are not allowed to be unsupervised. They'll hate
that. But it is your decision.
-Dean
lilbl...@my-dejanews.com
Dean Barker <de...@cray.com> wrote:
> Another option may be to allow the kids back, but
> tell them they are not allowed to be unsupervised.
A *very* good suggestion and I'm surprised I never thought of it because *we*
were never allowed to have kids over when my parents weren't home!
And not only that, I wasn't allowed to visit with my friend while my brother
was babysitting her because the two of us got into trouble that she would
never get into on her own.
Well done, Dean!
lil
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janelaw
>
>
> Three hours later, everyone is gone. DH and I are taking a drive and DH
> says, "Jessica says you yelled at her friend and said, 'What the HELL do
> you think gives you the right...'" Well, DH knows I wouldn't say such a
> thing (particularly twenty minutes after the incident when I've had time
> to calm down) and tells Jess as much. Jess insists that's what I said.
>
>
>
Maybe I am just being thick. What's wrong with saying, "What
the hell do you think gives you the right?"
My guess is that the friend did not intend to lie. She just
overlayed things in her memory. In her family, the reprimander
probably would have said, "What the hell...."
Sticking to it was just stupid kid stuff.
I agree you should meet the friends parents. It does make a
huge difference.