And in other news...
Anne Robotti
cowboy boots. I've always thrown her presents to Brooke right out,
because I am mean, petty and spiteful. And when I saw the boots, being
already furious with DH, I said to him, "I don't want any of her
Salvation Army crap on my kids." Then Brooke came into the room and
put the boots on and said to me, "These are my boots!" And I snapped,
"No they're not. Take them off!" And the hurt on her face, I can't even
tell you. It was awful, and I am never, ever going to say one word about
a present BM gives her. I can't believe I hurt my baby out of my stupid
spiteful dislike of BM. She said, "But <SD's> mommy SAID they were!" and
the tears were just welling up in her eyes... And I still feel hateful
about it.
I am actually thinking of writing BM a note and telling her how much
Brooke is enjoying the boots. She put them on with her fairy princess
costume and was quite a sight.
Anne
Nikki Murphy
Take Brooke's new boots and shove them up DH's .....
BTW I don't yet have bio kids but if my SS's mother even thinks of sending a
present to one of them I would rip her heart out first. Sorry, but that't
just the way that it is.
Sorry to hear what was going so well went so badly.
Hugs
Nikki
Anne Robotti
over this nonsense, the price of getting rid of them is too high, you
know? And really, REALLY think about it. Do you *really* want your kids
to dislike your son's BM? Because they will get that from you if you
did act the way I've been acting. And although it may be fine for *SS*
to dislike her, anybody else saying anything bad about her is likely
to hurt him very deeply. The free-for-all on BM is OVER at the Robotti
house. Brooke getting hurt in the fallout was a BIG wakeup call for me,
and it would be for you too.
Anne
Nikki Murphy
have been hurt if BM had been keeping within her boundaries and not giving your
child things in the first place.
i would foster an environment where it would be inappropriate for present giving -
that's it. I'd be perfectly happy if my children disliked my SS's BM. It would
show good judge of character. Fortunately they will be unlikely to see her
regularly if at all so it's not quite the same. There also will be such an age gap
between mine and my SS that it won't be that relevant but they will understand
that disliking her does not mean it's ok to say it to SS or to use it meanly. By
the time one of mine is say 5, SS will likely be 17 or 18 or so so it's kind of
different - he'll probably be at uni by then.
There just wouldn't be the opportunity for them to get hurt in the fall out in
this way. BM would be a stranger. Period.
Just my view I know your's is probably more well adjusted!! :-)
Nikki
Michelle The Lurker
stepfather, there seems to be a background level of resentment that he
feels towards my daughter. And, naturally, this resentment comes to the
surface sometimes. Much of this resentment, he says, is related to her
past behavior as well as to what he feels (note that this is in part a
point of disagreement) is her daily rudeness level. I don't always agree
with him about particular issues, and sometimes I very much disagree. At
the same time, however, I want him to feel my love and support. I try to
address the issues that are of concern to him -- but sometimes I feel
strongly that his suggestions are out of line. Can some of you who do
feel occasionally resentful towards your stepkids give me some insight
into things I could do or say that might have helped in situations like
these?
--
Michelle Geary
"I used to think only Jews, agnostics, and antisocial people went to
movies on Christmas." --Terry Gross
Anne Robotti
heinous, but for now I'm trying this. :-D
Anne
Anne Robotti
world, there's a way my DH would act that would go a long way toward
helping me.
Nobody would ever say that you should implement a parenting suggestion
that's WAY out of line. But really, how way out of line are we talking
here? Suggesting grounding her for a month? Suggesting breaking all her
favorite toys? And why do the suggestions feel out of line? Because they
go against your parenting philosophy in general (as if my DH wanted me
to spank Brooke) or because you feel they're out of line for the situation
(as if my DH wanted me to put Brooke in time out for an hour)? Because
one thing I see happenning here is that when my suggestions are REALLY
over the top, it's really a marker of the level of frustration and anger
I'm feeling over *all* the petty, pissy little situations that have come
up and not been dealt with or been dealt with but not to my satisfaction.
So then when SD does something that is flat out wrong (lying?), I'm like,
"Great, we can take away all her CD's and clothes and she can clean the
whole house top to bottom and we can XYZ" until I feel she'd be absolutely
miserable. But it's not about that specific situation at all.
So, you say that your DH has a problem with SD's day to day rudeness. Well,
having a child be rude to you in your own house and in a sense be powerless
to stop it is bound to be a very frustrating and rage-making sort of thing.
So, how about going to DH and saying, "Okay. We are going to try something.
I'm going to try to put away my preconceived idea that SD is not rude to you.
I'm going to really listen to her and see if I can hear what you hear. You,
in turn, could you *please* just for a week or a few days, put away the anger
you feel about the rudeness and listen to her *words* rather than her tone and
respond to that? That way we won't have the ongoing battle while I'm trying to
get on board. When you think she's being rude to you, and I'm there, just give
me a little signal so I know this is the kind of thing you're talking about."
Then, REALLY listen to her. She's your child and you love her, but you need to
really hear how she sounds to other people. And do it for a few days, see if
you can hear what DH is talking about. Then talk to him about it. If you really
don't hear it, don't say you did. See if you can explain to him what *you* think
is going on, because I'll bet he'll be more receptive if you are really trying
to work on the problem rather than referee. Let's say that it's a particular tone
she uses with him. You all need to sit down and talk about it, tell her that
you've been listening to, and she might not realize it but she doesn't always
phrase things politely with him. And this is a new era. You AND he are going to
let her know when she's doing it so she can have a chance to phrase things better
or say them more nicely and with more respect. It's not about blame, just about
a habit she's gotten into that is unacceptable and which you BOTH are going to
help her correct.
I think it would help a lot if (in general) you understood what DH's problems
are and tried to run a little bit of interference. Like, if you know that it
really bugs him when she plays the music too loud, then be sensitive to the
music level. Ask him if it's too loud. I had gotten into a while there where I
felt there was no point about saying anything about ANYTHING SD was doing that
bugged me, because I'd tell her and tell her and she'd blow me off or forget, and
DH never did anything about it. So if you go up to him and say, "Is the music
bothering you?" he might be sitting there really annoyed and not saying anything
because he figures there's no point, and when you ask about his feelings and take
care of it, that might help a lot, and after a while he'll be more comfortable
saying things about little things like that, where he used to just be seething.
You can't solve everything at once, but it needs to be an ongoing process on your
part, smoothing the way. NOT solving all their problems for them, NOT keeping them
away from each other. But generally getting a feel for the problem areas and helping
them get back to a place where if they have a problem they're comfortable voicing
it because nobody's feelings are getting ignored.
Michelle, I'd be glad to correspond with your DH about this, if you don't think
I'd just make it worse, seething pot of resentment that I am. :-D Because if he
feels like I feel, it's not a good place to be. I'd be glad to talk to you offline
too, if you want. I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
for resentment on the group now? ;-D
Anne
Anne Robotti
time as the WAVE of shame for my attitude and for having hurt Brooke's
feelings. When I said, "I still feel hateful about it" I meant that I
feel hateful that I hurt Brooke and that I was being such a bitch over
BM doing such a nice thing. I was feeling bad about myself, I'm over
feeling bad about the boots. That was gone before the first tear came
down Brooke's cheek.
Anne
Kim Scheinberg wrote:
> Anne, if you can try to look at it from this light, it might be easier
> for you to see the goodwill in her gesture
Kim Scheinberg
>When BM came and picked SD up, she brought Brooke a little pair of
>cowboy boots. I've always thrown her presents to Brooke right out,
>because I am mean, petty and spiteful. And when I saw the boots, being
>already furious with DH, I said to him, "I don't want any of her
>Salvation Army crap on my kids." Then Brooke came into the room and
>put the boots on and said to me, "These are my boots!" And I snapped,
>"No they're not. Take them off!" And the hurt on her face, I can't even
>tell you. It was awful, and I am never, ever going to say one word about
>a present BM gives her. I can't believe I hurt my baby out of my stupid
>spiteful dislike of BM. She said, "But <SD's> mommy SAID they were!" and
>the tears were just welling up in her eyes... And I still feel hateful
>about it.
This post is a perfect example of what so many of us, as step-parents,
complain about. We love/like/whatever kids whose parents would prefer we
have nothing to do with them and we wonder why they don't appreciate us
Anne, if you can try to look at it from this light, it might be easier
for you to see the goodwill in her gesture
I view Max as Switzerland. Completely neutral. When we (dh, myself, SD, BM
and BM's new beau) were all at SS's graduation and BM wanted to hold Max?
I handed him right over. And she was great with him. And why not? He's not
a party to all the bad history between all of us, and he's her kids'
brother (I'm one of the posters who hates the term half-sibling)
I realize some of you have other issues with BM's who are neglectful or
simply dangerous to their own kids. But our BM has been nothing but a
great mom, why should I poison Max against her?
And to anyone who *wasn't* around three years ago when I first got here
and was in the middle of WW3 with BM? Consider this post one of hope.
Attitudes can change. Ice caps can melt. We still wouldn't think of
inviting BM and her SO over for a 4th of July picnic. But it's getting
better all the time
-k.
--
ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
Nikki Murphy
hives....
yeuch
n
Michelle the Lurker
> You know Michelle, I think I *can* help you here...
Anne -- thanks so much for your reply. I've read your post and have been
thinking about it for the last half hour -- I think that what you've said
is going to be very very helpful to me. I'm going to post a more detailed
response later (which I will welcome analysis and comments on), but right
now (I'm on my way out the door) I just wanted to let you know how much I
appreciate what you've said.
And it's not that I think that you're the poster child for
resentment! But you've been working a lot on this issue in recent
months, and because of that I hoped that you'd be able to give me some
insight into *my* issues. Thanks so much,
Michelle
HR
type pf environment, and not in a type of OK we will figure out who is wrong
here and I will correct whoever it is. Your DH needs to know that you
consider him to be part of a parenting partnership. SD is not on the same
level, not because you don't love her just as much as you do DH or more, but
because she is the child and he is the adult. If you discuss something and
decide that your way will work better, don't present it to your daughter in
a way that makes it sound like you are rescuing her from evil SF. It will
confuse her as to who are the parents.
I'll bet he'll be more receptive if you are really trying
>to work on the problem rather than referee.
>I think it would help a lot if (in general) you understood what DH's
problems
>are and tried to run a little bit of interference. I had gotten into a
while there where I
>felt there was no point about saying anything about ANYTHING SD was doing
that
>bugged me, because I'd tell her and tell her and she'd blow me off or
forget, and
>DH never did anything about it.
and after a while he'll be more comfortable
>saying things about little things like that, where he used to just be
seething.
Also, please consider that parenting isn't easy. I'm sure there are times
when you just need to vent about something that one of your kids is doing
(because I sure do with my own BKs) but because you are the bioparent,
everyone just takes it at face value that you are not actually attacking
your kids character, just venting. SPs sometimes need to vent too, but
sometimes by DH won't let me vent about SD. He takes it as a personal
attack, when all I'm doing is trying to let off some steam and get his input
on how I should deal with a particular problem I'm having.
Just my 2 cents worth,
Heather
Sian Lee Reid
<rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> for resentment on the group now? ;-D
>
Not the poster child, just the one who persists in agonizing it, analyzing
it, and searching for ways to overcome it, out here on the public
usenet... :)
Sian
Anne Robotti
Anne
Sian Lee Reid wrote:
>
> In article <37DD224B...@worldnet.att.net>, Anne Robotti
> <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
>
> I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> > for resentment on the group now? ;-D
> >
Merrie
you were fantastic for snapping at Brooke - I only knew you'd called BM and
thanked her.
FWIW - I understand the way you and Nikki feel about the BM interaction
with your own children.
I also know for sure my kids have forgiven me for worse stuff. I'm sorry
that Brooke was hurt by your reaction but if it's a catalyst for ridding
resentment in your life - I can't say it's all bad to have happened.
You can choose not to live with it - but you first have to know you have a
choice.
Merrie
Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37DD0972...@worldnet.att.net...
> When BM came and picked SD up, she brought Brooke a little pair of
> cowboy boots. I've always thrown her presents to Brooke right out,
> because I am mean, petty and spiteful. And when I saw the boots, being
> already furious with DH, I said to him, "I don't want any of her
> Salvation Army crap on my kids." Then Brooke came into the room and
> put the boots on and said to me, "These are my boots!" And I snapped,
> "No they're not. Take them off!" And the hurt on her face, I can't even
> tell you. It was awful, and I am never, ever going to say one word about
> a present BM gives her. I can't believe I hurt my baby out of my stupid
> spiteful dislike of BM. She said, "But <SD's> mommy SAID they were!" and
> the tears were just welling up in her eyes... And I still feel hateful
> about it.
>
Anne Robotti
ridding my life of some resentment. I really feel lighter today!
Anne
Newsgroups
and learning every day. each day presents a totally different
challenge that wasn't necessarily dealt with the day before. i am so proud
of you anne for calling bm and in all honesty, i will not be so physically
sick the next time i have to hear bm's voice. thank you for putting your
weaknesses out there for the rest of us to grow from.
kitley
Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37DD3FF6...@worldnet.att.net...
> This was a complaint or a compliment, Sian? :)
>
> Anne
>
> Sian Lee Reid wrote:
> >
> > In article <37DD224B...@worldnet.att.net>, Anne Robotti
> > <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
> >
> > I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> > > for resentment on the group now? ;-D
> > >
Melissa Torresan
One time when SO and I were driving SK to drop off, we were talking
about my nephew Joshy and the fact that he might be coming back here
to live soon <with my sister, that is> and SK said to me - will he be
here for my birthday party? - and I said - I'm pretty sure he will
<its months away yet!> - and he said - well I better write him an
invitation then - and he got some paper and a pen that was in the
backseat of the car, and he wrote this..
Dear Joshy
Pokemon in present
SK
Well I thought it was sweet and kinda cute - SK explained to me that
because Joshy loves tractors and planes and stuff he might not know
that SK liked Pokemon. He took the paper and pen inside with him when
we got there, and he'd already written an invite to his best friend
saying the same thing. BM saw it.. and trust me, I was looking for the
earplugs because she launched into a tirade that was louder than
standing behind a 747 taking off - How dare you write that kind of
stuff to people? Thats disgusting.. you don't ask people for the kind
of presents you want! You take what they give you - and just for that,
you're not having any toys for a week - and she marched in there, and
started taking his toys away - then she yells out - NO POKEMON VIDEOS,
EITHER!!
SK was in tears, and it didnt take long after getting back in the car
for me to be, either.
While I agree that SK should not be telling people what he wants for a
present, at the same time, BM could have handled it very differently..
she could have said - well thats not the way you do an invitation, but
if you want to do them, I'll help you.
I felt like shit because I did not have the heart to say to SK - Well
you don't ask for the presents you want, you be happy with what you
get in a nice way and help him with what to write myself before we got
there.
I don't think it is mean, petty and spiteful to throw out presents
from someone you really dislike - I know all too well that each time
you look at that present, it can have the effect of a few bull
elephants trampling on you. Thats why anything we give to SK stays
here, and anything BM gives to SK stays at her place - SO got tired of
finding the toys he gave to SK broken <and I've seen the damage, it
would be hard to say that SK did it!> Me, personally, I cannot even
stand just the *smell* of the washing powder that BM uses.. To me it
seems like she puts ten times more in for clothes that are coming
here.. really I have never seen clothes that reek of washing powder
like that before! If I had a dryer, I'd wash them all as soon as we
got home from pick up.
When my nephew does get back, and we go to SK's Bday party, he can
give SK a present.. and SK can give nephew one back at his bday
party.. and that will be ok because though BM chose the present, SK
*gave* it to him.. and that makes all the difference..
Mel
Tracey
>been keeping within her boundaries and not giving your child
>things in the first place.
But, not to rehash this all again, but IS it a boundary that BM
knows about? And, not trying to make Anne feel bad again,
but to say that Brooke was hurt because the BM did some-
thing *nice* for her isn't quite right, is it?
I don't know, but one thing I've got to be grateful about is
that my husband's ex has *always* treated our kids as well
as she's treated the other kids in their family. She even once
sent a box of clothes my youngest SS had outgrown for our
son. Granted, being at functions and seeing her carry our
daughter around made my husband feel a little 'icky' as he
admitted later, and hearing our son ask her how he was re-
lated to her caused *everyone* within earshot to cringe, I
think, but she's never let her feelings about my husband or
about myself show when it came to our kids.
Tracey
--
Tracey
--
"I used to think that life should be fair.
But then I realized it's better that life
is unfair. If life is fair, it would mean
we deserve all the terrible things that
happen to us."
- Marcus, Ranger extraordinaire.
Tracey
We can have complementing posters made up if you want, Anne.
jane lawrence
>
>
>
> Michelle, I'd be glad to correspond with your DH about this, if you don't think
> I'd just make it worse, seething pot of resentment that I am. :-D Because if he
> feels like I feel, it's not a good place to be. I'd be glad to talk to you offline
> too, if you want. I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> for resentment on the group now? ;-D
>
>
Okay. Since you're on such a roll, Anne, maybe you can help me.
I'm having trouble with SD's relationship with biodaughter. It
bugs me. In part, I think I feel pushed aside because they do
things together that my daughter and I used to do. I'm working
on sorting that out.
One thing that I can't get a handle on at all is the way 16 yo
SD "parents" 12 yo BD. It's like chalk on a blackboard to me.
I hear her tell her to do or not do something and it sets my
teeth on edge. I don't want this to develop into a major issue,
but for some reason I feel unable to head it off. I've
discussed it with DH, who agrees to help. It's hard to figure
out how he can help, though. I mean, what do you say when the
kid isn't doing anything "wrong" and it *still* drives you nuts?
jane
jane lawrence
>
> >
> Not the poster child, just the one who persists in agonizing it, analyzing
> it, and searching for ways to overcome it, out here on the public
> usenet... :)
>
>
jane
Merrie
explanation about saying thank you. I told him - even if he doesn't like
it, already has one, whatever - he is to smile and say "thank you." We did
a little role playing and I said "now here you've been given something you
don't like. And you say..."
He looks right at me and says, "No thank you?"
Melissa Torresan <torre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:37dd511f...@192.168.0.13...
Anne Robotti
be sarcasm challenged. :-D
Anne
Anne Robotti
these women is *more* resentful? If you can't tell, why
should we?" :-D
Anne
Tracey wrote:
>
> >The poster child for resentment on the group now? ;-D
>
Anne Robotti
how a kid can drive you nuts without ever putting a foot wrong. This
bugs the living shit out of me too, and it's MUCH worse with SD
parenting my little ones! It's a constant thing the whole time she's
here.
This is what I did, I finally just made a joke out of it. Now when
she's doing it I say, "They already have a Mom" in as light a tone
as I can muster and she kind of gives me that half smile and I smile
at her and we go on. But on a bad day, I've been known to shout
through gritted teeth, "Will you STOP climbing up the little kids'
butts about stuff that's none of your business?!" I was completely
unable to head it off also, and then everybody goes and makes it
worse by telling me, "That's just kids." Yeah, well fuck you very
much, that does NOT help me. A little code phrase like, "Stop bossing
her," which *you* know in your heart of hearts means "Stop fucking
bossing her" might help, I do that with "Could you please vaccuum the
living room" which *I* know means "Get up off your lazy ass." :-)
The other stuff, the "them doing things together stuff", I have the
same thing here with SD playing our (me and Brooke's) nighttime game
and saying prayers with us. Yes, I am such a rotten bitch that I
begrudge the child wanting to say her prayers with us, what corner
of hell is reserved for me? :-D But it's me and Brooke's personal,
*PRIVATE* time, and it's SO hard for me to have anybody else do it
with us. And knowing that SD is hanging around *wanting* to be in on
it is just as bad. One thing I've really tried to do about this is
to just say to myself during the day, "Gee, tonight it will be nice
when the three of us say our prayers." Positive visualization, you
know? I've done this about a number of issues, including SD coming
to church with me and Brooke, SD coming period... It sounds hokey
but it really helps.
Anne
jane lawrence wrote:
>
> Anne Robotti wrote:
> >
> >
> >
> > Michelle, I'd be glad to correspond with your DH about this, if you don't think
> > I'd just make it worse, seething pot of resentment that I am. :-D Because if he
> > feels like I feel, it's not a good place to be. I'd be glad to talk to you offline
> > too, if you want. I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> > for resentment on the group now? ;-D
> >
> >
>
Anne Robotti
I think where I went wrong is when I said in my post "I still feel
hateful" and people thought I meant that I still didn't want Brooke
to have the boots. But I do. They make her so happy. And what I
meant was, I felt SOOOO bad that I hurt Brooke's feelings and was so
petty and small over BM doing a nice thing.
Anne
Tracey
>I think where I went wrong is when I said in my post "I still feel
And, see, I said I didn't want you to feel bad again and I'm sorry
that it did. {{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{{Anne}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}}
'Sokay, you know. One night not long ago, we were getting dinner
ready and Siobhan was being...well, Siobhan and talking and asking
questions and interrupting and when she asked <for about the 10th
time> what she was getting to eat for dinner, Hubby and I chimed
in at about the same time 'NOTHING!! We are NEVER feeding
you again!' She broke down in tears and I *still* feel like a real
heel when I think of it.
Olga
The way you described Brooke's reaction made me want to cry! I know
exactly that feeling of crushing pain in your chest when you realized
you hurt your child's feelings. (OTOH, I now have a 5-year-old boy that
says, pouting, "You hurt my *feelings*.")
I never thought about my BKs having contact with BM, and it never even
came up until recently. Before that, I'd take BKs to SD's sporting
events, school activities, etc. SD would hold them in her arms (hee
hee) and BM would studiously avoid looking at them. SD would tell BKs
that this particular woman there was her BM. And recently the BKs
realized where SD disappears to for one week out of every two <g>.
But one thing that really raised my estimation of BM was something that
happened in the spring. BM had purchased a townhouse for herself and SD
in spring 1994, and she had *never* permitted us to see inside of it.
One of those petty things. We'd stopped pressing to see the place a
couple of years ago, since our requests had been denied continually (our
attorney had mentioned that "rights and remedies" comment here; we had a
right to see SD's room, yes, but would we pursue the remedy of going to
court just to handle that issue? *No way*).
Anyway, we were in luck when SD sprained her ankle at a basketball game
this spring and had a cast. Lucky why, you ask? Because SD was at BM's
that week, and *of course* we'd be asked by SD to come see her, and *of
course* for once SD couldn't be expected to go outside! But BM handled
everything so graciously. She welcomed DH, the 3 BKs, and me into her
home.
We ended up staying over an hour (!), hanging out in SD's room and the
living room. BM talked very nicely to my BKs and offered them drinks.
To this day they desperately want these squeeze drinks she gave them.
Although we didn't see BM's room, we were shown around the rest of the
place, and BM talked about improvements she plans to make, etc. It was
an impressive encounter, and the first substantive one my BKs had every
had with BM.
They haven't had much contact with BM since then, but when they do see
her they run up to her happily, having no concept that she might not
just love them all to pieces. I think that's kind of cool. I want them
to feel warmly toward a person SD holds dear.
Jennifer
Anne Robotti wrote:
> Tracey, that was totally and completely *wrong* and I know it too.
> I think where I went wrong is when I said in my post "I still feel
Olga
with Anne before, specifically about the older SD interfering with parenting of younger
BKs. In my case, SD is 8 years older than my twins, so it's rough here.
And Anne, I'm also a bitch about good-night rituals. I *always* want to sing to the BKs
just with DH, and I used to feel pretty shitty about shutting the bedroom door on SD.
Then again, now that the twins want to sing periodically to the baby, I sometimes let
them. Why is that? I have to do some thinking about that. Then again, I don't mind SD
singing to baby as much as singing to twins...
Here's something stupid that grates me. It's so stupid, but what the hell. I can't stand
that SD always wants to be the last person out of the house!!! I can tell she's always
delaying and lagging so she can be out first. I *know* that's ridiculous, but I end up
wanting to be the person to do the final checking and locking up. So by some insane tacit
understanding we kind of hop from foot to foot, probably only subconsciously realizing
what the other is doing, waiting each other out. How dumb is that?
This has to do with what you said about being irritated even when they do things right.
I'm not sure if it's a SD issue at all, or just an interference thing, or an older child
thing. I won't really know until I find out if my twins irritate me with their behavior
toward the baby when they're older. (I'll be sure to let you know then :) ).
What you wrote here:
> This is what I did, I finally just made a joke out of it. Now when
> she's doing it I say, "They already have a Mom" in as light a tone
> as I can muster and she kind of gives me that half smile and I smile
> at her and we go on. But on a bad day, I've been known to shout
> through gritted teeth, "Will you STOP climbing up the little kids'
> butts about stuff that's none of your business?!"
I try the "Mom" comment, but SD tends to shoot me pissy looks then, like, "Yeah, well if
*I* were the Mom I'd sure as hell be keeping the baby from climbing up on the sofa arm and
launching herself onto the recliner." Sometimes SD is alerting me to important stuff, but
then other times she's forcing me to get involved with some dispute that I wanted to
ignore. But once she draws it to my attention in front of the other kids, I can't pretend
I didn't notice that twin A is bopping twin B on the head.
Oh I see, Jane, *that's* why you didn't ask me for advice. I'm just as clueless as
everybody else...
Jennifer :)
Olga
so well-versed in etiquette. And personally, I'm deeply impressed that your
SS could write such an adorable note. :)
Jennifer
Melissa Torresan wrote:
> Anne -
>
> One time when SO and I were driving SK to drop off, we were talking
> about my nephew Joshy and the fact that he might be coming back here
> to live soon <with my sister, that is> and SK said to me - will he be
> here for my birthday party? - and I said - I'm pretty sure he will
> <its months away yet!> - and he said - well I better write him an
> invitation then - and he got some paper and a pen that was in the
> backseat of the car, and he wrote this..
>
> Dear Joshy
>
> Pokemon in present
>
> SK
>
> Well I thought it was sweet and kinda cute - SK explained to me that
> because Joshy loves tractors and planes and stuff he might not know
> that SK liked Pokemon. He took the paper and pen inside with him when
> we got there, and he'd already written an invite to his best friend
> saying the same thing. BM saw it.. and trust me, I was looking for the
> earplugs because she launched into a tirade that was louder than
> standing behind a 747 taking off - How dare you write that kind of
> stuff to people? Thats disgusting.. you don't ask people for the kind
> of presents you want! You take what they give you - and just for that,
> you're not having any toys for a week - and she marched in there, and
> started taking his toys away - then she yells out - NO POKEMON VIDEOS,
> EITHER!!
>
Kim Scheinberg
>that SD always wants to be the last person out of the house!!! I can
>tell she's always delaying and lagging so she can be out first. I *know*
>that's ridiculous, but I end up wanting to be the person to do the final
>checking and locking up.
In our house, everyone wanted to be the one to put the last piece in the
jigsaw puzzle. Imagine repeated scenes where, towards the end of the
puzzle, you realize four pieces are missing because everyone has pawned
one so that they can have the honors...
jane, I just try and face the fact that I'm allergic to some people. It's
not dislike. Or malice. Just an allergy. When I look at it in those terms,
I don't feel like such a heel about it
Kim Scheinberg
>> Anne, if you can try to look at it from this light, it might be easier
>> for you to see the goodwill in her gesture
>feelings. When I said, "I still feel hateful about it" I meant that I
>feel hateful that I hurt Brooke and that I was being such a bitch over
>BM doing such a nice thing. I was feeling bad about myself, I'm over
I'm sorry I wasn't clearer. I knew that, and I knew you were telling a
story, not looking for answers
My response was for anyone else who might feel the same impulses you did.
And I've been kinda busy today or I'd have told you hours ago that I
thought your phone message was just wonderful
Melissa Torresan
> Before my BS's 6th birthday I sat him down and gave him a little
>explanation about saying thank you. I told him - even if he doesn't like
>it, already has one, whatever - he is to smile and say "thank you." We did
>a little role playing and I said "now here you've been given something you
>don't like. And you say..."
>
>He looks right at me and says, "No thank you?"
ROFL! :) Yep, we've had that discussion.. but ours was less funny!
Although, SK did ask if he had to smile and be polite if someone gives
him a "girls" toy <IE BARBIE> and we told him of course he had to!
Maybe I should test him on it.. see if it worked :) barbies are pretty
cheap these days! :)
Mel
>Melissa Torresan <torre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>news:37dd511f...@192.168.0.13...
Melissa Torresan
>Sheesh! What a bitchy thing for your BM to have done! Like a 6-year-old is
>so well-versed in etiquette. And personally, I'm deeply impressed that your
>SS could write such an adorable note. :)
Well, really, when you think about it, why *shouldn't* SK let anyone
coming to his party know what he's interested in so they will get him
a present that he will like? Don't most of us ask others what they
want for a gift so that we get them something they need - instead of
another knife block to match the three they already have?
Come to think of it, it'd be ***REALLY*** helpful for mums to put a
little note on the invite about what the kid's latest passion is.. I
know when my sister had a 3rd bday party for nephew, most of the mum's
called and asked what he would like.
Although, SK did say to me - the presents I got last year were pretty
bad.. I'm going to have to really think carefully about who I invite
this year.. not just any tom, dick or harry.. people that really
*know* me. That, from a kid who had over 20 other kids at his birthday
party last year! :) I guess a present from someone you know and like
is better than a present from some kid who you hardly know..
I'm gonna get him a present that makes lots of noise - without needing
batteries :) like the growling monster truck that I have been tortured
with for weeks now.. if I run into SK's room to look out the window
and accidently touch it with my foot, it roars like a lion and flashes
green lights.. bloody terrifying!
Mel
>Jennifer
>
>Melissa Torresan wrote:
>
>> Anne -
>>
>> One time when SO and I were driving SK to drop off, we were talking
>> about my nephew Joshy and the fact that he might be coming back here
>> to live soon <with my sister, that is> and SK said to me - will he be
>> here for my birthday party? - and I said - I'm pretty sure he will
>> <its months away yet!> - and he said - well I better write him an
>> invitation then - and he got some paper and a pen that was in the
>> backseat of the car, and he wrote this..
>>
>> Dear Joshy
>>
>> Pokemon in present
>>
>> SK
>>
>> Well I thought it was sweet and kinda cute - SK explained to me that
>> because Joshy loves tractors and planes and stuff he might not know
>> that SK liked Pokemon. He took the paper and pen inside with him when
>> we got there, and he'd already written an invite to his best friend
>> saying the same thing. BM saw it.. and trust me, I was looking for the
>> earplugs because she launched into a tirade that was louder than
>> standing behind a 747 taking off - How dare you write that kind of
>> stuff to people? Thats disgusting.. you don't ask people for the kind
>> of presents you want! You take what they give you - and just for that,
>> you're not having any toys for a week - and she marched in there, and
>> started taking his toys away - then she yells out - NO POKEMON VIDEOS,
>> EITHER!!
>>
Tracy "The Lurker"
"out of the mouths of babes"
Tracy
Anne Robotti
> I try the "Mom" comment, but SD tends to shoot me pissy looks then, like, "Yeah, well if
> *I* were the Mom I'd sure as hell be keeping the baby from climbing up on the sofa arm and
> launching herself onto the recliner." Sometimes SD is alerting me to important stuff, but
> then other times she's forcing me to get involved with some dispute that I wanted to
> ignore. But once she draws it to my attention in front of the other kids, I can't pretend
> I didn't notice that twin A is bopping twin B on the head.
Yeah, well, if she *said* that I'd certainly say, "And when you're the Mom you can." If
she shot me a pissy look I'd shoot one right back. My eyebrow raised look, my are-you-
daring-to-question-my-parenting-in-my-own-house look. That one even quells my mother. And
if SD is alerting me (endlessly) to the details (triviality, minutae) of the little kids
fighting, I say, "Well if I jump in they'll never learn to work it out." And I've said
that in front of EVERYBODY, so it's clear to everybody why I'm not getting involved.
Anne
Michelle Not-so-much-a-lurker
> You know Michelle, I think I *can* help you here....<snip>...Because
> one thing I see happenning here is that when my suggestions are REALLY
> over the top, it's really a marker of the level of frustration and anger
> I'm feeling over *all* the petty, pissy little situations that have come
> up and not been dealt with or been dealt with but not to my satisfaction.
I think this is probably a big part of our problem -- that his
frustration level has built up to a great extent. I think I'm beginning
to recognize a pattern that we've been stuck in. A small part of the
problem (and in some sense, a trigger) comes out of our differences in
parenting style. He tends to be a little stricter than I am. So -- here's
an example. She's got a set bedtime and she goes to bed at that time
pretty much without complaint. But sometimes, after I've tucked her in,
she realizes she needs to go to the bathroom or she wants a drink. She's
eleven (so, I think, fairly responsible) and she goes and does whatever it
is and gets back in bed, so *I* don't have a problem with it. But he
feels that 1) she's not being responsible about her bedtime and 2) I'm
letting her get away with it. The point here isn't the specific example
:), but that in thinking about this I realize that I think of each
occurrence as a little isolated incident that means little, but that he's
feeling that, *as usual*, I'm disregarding his opinions and feelings. On
the one hand, in this particular kind of situation (I haven't got to the
rudeness issue yet), I may or may not change what I do about her -- but I
think I need to do a better job of making him feel *heard* (thank you,
Jane and Vicki).
> So, how about going to DH and saying, "Okay. We are going to try something.
> I'm going to try to put away my preconceived idea that SD is not rude to you.
> I'm going to really listen to her and see if I can hear what you hear. You,
> in turn, could you *please* just for a week or a few days, put away the anger
> you feel about the rudeness and listen to her *words* rather than her tone and
> respond to that? That way we won't have the ongoing battle while I'm trying to
> get on board. When you think she's being rude to you, and I'm there, just give
> me a little signal so I know this is the kind of thing you're talking about."
I very much like your suggestions about the rudeness. Again, I
need to be better about hearing *what* he's saying, rather than getting in
knee-jerk reflex arguements about my parenting style or whether what she
just said *was* rude. *My* perspective has been that sometimes she's
deliberately rude (which requires a disciplinary action) and frequently
she's unconscious (which requires a reminder or a reality check) and
sometimes the issue at hand isn't one of rudeness at all. But, again --
in many ways that's just not the only problem here. He needs to feel, as
you've pointed out, that *I'm* really trying. And if I'm getting
distracted by the argument about a particular incident, he's not hearing
that I'm concerned about his feelings in the situation, or that I'm going
to do anything.
> Then, REALLY listen to her. She's your child and you love her, but you need to
> really hear how she sounds to other people. And do it for a few days, see if
> you can hear what DH is talking about. Then talk to him about it. If you really
> don't hear it, don't say you did. See if you can explain to him what *you* think
> is going on, because I'll bet he'll be more receptive if you are really trying
> to work on the problem rather than referee. Let's say that it's a particular tone
> she uses with him. You all need to sit down and talk about it, tell her that
> you've been listening to, and she might not realize it but she doesn't always
> phrase things politely with him. And this is a new era. You AND he are going to
> let her know when she's doing it so she can have a chance to phrase things better
> or say them more nicely and with more respect. It's not about blame, just about
> a habit she's gotten into that is unacceptable and which you BOTH are going to
> help her correct.
I do like this suggestion very much, as I noted above. Can I,
without sounding too defensive :), ask for suggestions about how to phrase
it if and when certain things that are stressful for him still feel not
rude to me?
> I think it would help a lot if (in general) you understood what DH's problems
> are and tried to run a little bit of interference. Like, if you know that it
> really bugs him when she plays the music too loud, then be sensitive to the
> music level. Ask him if it's too loud. I had gotten into a while there where I
> felt there was no point about saying anything about ANYTHING SD was doing that
> bugged me, because I'd tell her and tell her and she'd blow me off or forget, and
> DH never did anything about it. So if you go up to him and say, "Is the music
> bothering you?" he might be sitting there really annoyed and not saying anything
> because he figures there's no point, and when you ask about his feelings and take
> care of it, that might help a lot, and after a while he'll be more comfortable
> saying things about little things like that, where he used to just be seething.
> You can't solve everything at once, but it needs to be an ongoing process on your
> part, smoothing the way. NOT solving all their problems for them, NOT keeping them
> away from each other. But generally getting a feel for the problem areas and helping
> them get back to a place where if they have a problem they're comfortable voicing
> it because nobody's feelings are getting ignored.
I'll work on this. I'm hoping we can talk about this some tonight
-- we both had meetings last night -- so that I can start working more
diligently on the situation. Thanks again for your input. I'm sure I'll
have more questions down the road....
Michelle
Anne Robotti
> I think this is probably a big part of our problem -- that his
> frustration level has built up to a great extent. I think I'm beginning
> to recognize a pattern that we've been stuck in. A small part of the
> problem (and in some sense, a trigger) comes out of our differences in
> parenting style. He tends to be a little stricter than I am. So -- here's
> an example. She's got a set bedtime and she goes to bed at that time
> pretty much without complaint. But sometimes, after I've tucked her in,
> she realizes she needs to go to the bathroom or she wants a drink. She's
> eleven (so, I think, fairly responsible) and she goes and does whatever it
> is and gets back in bed, so *I* don't have a problem with it. But he
> feels that 1) she's not being responsible about her bedtime and 2) I'm
> letting her get away with it. The point here isn't the specific example
> :), but that in thinking about this I realize that I think of each
> occurrence as a little isolated incident that means little, but that he's
> feeling that, *as usual*, I'm disregarding his opinions and feelings. On
> the one hand, in this particular kind of situation (I haven't got to the
> rudeness issue yet), I may or may not change what I do about her -- but I
> think I need to do a better job of making him feel *heard* (thank you,
> Jane and Vicki).
Michelle, one thing you might want to do is actually *treat* the bedtime
thing as a specific instance, because in our house this is how I feel. SD
goes to bed. I breathe a sigh of relief and plan on the rest of the night
to myself. Then she starts coming out of her room for pissy little things
and I feel (rightly or wrongly isn't quite the point) that my personal,
private time that I can count on to be without her is being infringed on.
This is one of my BIG trigger points too. I don't know if your DH is at my
frustration level yet, but if he is, this is a big one you want to take care
of. Because if you take care of the rudeness thing as well as possible, AND
make sure that he has time that he can absolutely count on to be WITHOUT
your daughter... that would be good. And you know Michelle, I know that sounds
harsh and I know everybody here alreayd thinks I hate my stepdaughter. But
anybody who hasn't felt it doesn't know how *weary* that constant frustration
can make you. I find that I like my SD *much* more when DH is doing his part
to take care of her behavior! Because I don't hate her. I hate the situation and
the way I feel when she's here. It's a fine point, but one to keep in mind through
all this because your DH may feel the same way. So don't look at him as someone
who doesn't like your daughter and from whom you have to somehow shield her. Look
at him as someone who has a problem with your daughter's behavior that you're
trying to fix so he can get back to the business of loving her, which is what he
wants to do.
> I very much like your suggestions about the rudeness. Again, I
> need to be better about hearing *what* he's saying, rather than getting in
> knee-jerk reflex arguements about my parenting style or whether what she
> just said *was* rude. *My* perspective has been that sometimes she's
> deliberately rude (which requires a disciplinary action) and frequently
> she's unconscious (which requires a reminder or a reality check) and
> sometimes the issue at hand isn't one of rudeness at all. But, again --
> in many ways that's just not the only problem here. He needs to feel, as
> you've pointed out, that *I'm* really trying. And if I'm getting
> distracted by the argument about a particular incident, he's not hearing
> that I'm concerned about his feelings in the situation, or that I'm going
> to do anything.
AND, when you start this, just so you know... when DH began disciplining SD
and asking me how I was doing, I let WAVES of hostility and anger come off me,
all the stuff I'd been saving up because he *didn't* care came pouring out
when he did. So get ready for DH to seem angry at you in the first discussions.
DH would say to me, really nicely, "Come on, but now I'm trying to fix it, so
let's stop being mad for a second so you can tell me. Then you can go right
back to it." and he would give me a hug.
> I do like this suggestion very much, as I noted above. Can I,
> without sounding too defensive :), ask for suggestions about how to phrase
> it if and when certain things that are stressful for him still feel not
> rude to me?
Yes. And I'm sure she's NOT rude in every situation, and I'm sure he'll
realize that after a while. How about trying things like, "She didn't use
that tone of voice you've pointed out before, was it what she actually *said*
that bothered you?" or "Okay. I have to admit I didn't see that one. But I
understand that it bothered you. Tell me what specifically bothered you so I
can be sure to bring it up to her. This is probably why I've never noticed it
before, it was going right over my head." And then he might say something pissy
like, "Like everything else," to which you respond with an eye roll and a, "Come
on honey, I'm trying now. Can you work with me?" and a hug. Just grit your teeth
and do it. Yes you can. Put down that frying pan. :-D
> I'll work on this. I'm hoping we can talk about this some tonight
> -- we both had meetings last night -- so that I can start working more
> diligently on the situation. Thanks again for your input. I'm sure I'll
> have more questions down the road....
Well, good luck. And like I said, feel free to send DH my way. Nobody can understand
this like a person who's lived it.
Anne
Merrie
> On Tue, 14 Sep 1999 02:19:54 -0700, Olga <dist...@my-deja.com> wrote:
>
> >Sheesh! What a bitchy thing for your BM to have done! Like a 6-year-old
is
> >so well-versed in etiquette. And personally, I'm deeply impressed that
your
> >SS could write such an adorable note. :)
>
> Well, really, when you think about it, why *shouldn't* SK let anyone
> coming to his party know what he's interested in so they will get him
> a present that he will like? Don't most of us ask others what they
> want for a gift so that we get them something they need - instead of
> another knife block to match the three they already have?
>
present. You've invited them to your birthday party - their only obligation
is to come and help you celebrate. It's just more fun to celebrate with
someone you know and like well than it is to try and have fun with people
you hardly know.
I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
other than the stores...
Merrie
Michelle
...paragraphs of useful and realistic advice. And I have to rush
off again, but...I wanted to let you know that my DH and I had a good
conversation about some of these issues at lunchtime. And I took your
advice, and offered to be stricter about the bedtime issue. We've also
given my daughter a book on manners-for-kids to read (she was given the
choice of reading it with us or on her own), and I'm hoping that someone
*else's* words may have more impact than ours sometimes do. I really
appreciate your offer to correspond with him, btw (I think I forgot to say
that before); he's pretty shy, however, and says that he's not sure he'd
be comfortable with that :). But again -- thank you for offering! I
figure he can just ask me and then I'll ask you (and the group) :). I'm
feeling much more positive about all of this today, thanks to your input
and the conversations that DH and I have had subsequent to that.
Michelle
Vicki Robinson
: No - it's considered presumptuous to think someone is buying you a
:present. You've invited them to your birthday party - their only obligation
:is to come and help you celebrate. It's just more fun to celebrate with
:someone you know and like well than it is to try and have fun with people
:you hardly know.
:
Yep.
: I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
:other than the stores...
I like registries, makes things much easier, but the bride or
mother-to-be *never* gives out the information. Guests who wish to
buy from the registry list are supposed to contact the mother of the
bride or another member of the family and ask.
Of course, when I got married in '97 and someone asked me where I
was registered, I said "Any ATM in town."
Vicki the Crass
--
Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources:
http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html
The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Kim Scheinberg
>In a previous article, "Merrie" <mer...@svn.net> said:
>
>: I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
>:other than the stores...
>
>I like registries, makes things much easier, but the bride or
>mother-to-be *never* gives out the information. Guests who wish to
>buy from the registry list are supposed to contact the mother of the
>bride or another member of the family and ask.
>
>Of course, when I got married in '97 and someone asked me where I
>was registered, I said "Any ATM in town."
God bless the Jews for whom cash is king
I didn't register when I got married, nor did I do so for Max. And I am
just *amazed* by how many people have come out of the woodwork to send Max
an outfit or something
-k. doesn't need to shop for baby clothes for quite a while, thanks
Merrie
It's one easy task you can just delegate to her and you'll have less to do
to get out the door. Just teach her to do it the way you like it done. You
may have to occasionally show her what didn't get done correctly, upon
returning to the house. Not too soon she'll be staying up later than you
anyway and you'll want to be confident that she can lock up.
I don't know if you'll find out if it's a SD thing by when the twins get
older, because *we* change as well.
Merrie
Olga <dist...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:37DE126B...@my-deja.com...
> Jane, you didn't ask me, but I'm not hurt at all. I just remember having
this discussion
> with Anne before, specifically about the older SD interfering with
parenting of younger
> BKs. In my case, SD is 8 years older than my twins, so it's rough here.
>
> And Anne, I'm also a bitch about good-night rituals. I *always* want to
sing to the BKs
> just with DH, and I used to feel pretty shitty about shutting the bedroom
door on SD.
> Then again, now that the twins want to sing periodically to the baby, I
sometimes let
> them. Why is that? I have to do some thinking about that. Then again, I
don't mind SD
> singing to baby as much as singing to twins...
>
> Here's something stupid that grates me. It's so stupid, but what the
hell. I can't stand
> that SD always wants to be the last person out of the house!!! I can tell
she's always
> delaying and lagging so she can be out first. I *know* that's ridiculous,
but I end up
> wanting to be the person to do the final checking and locking up. So by
some insane tacit
> understanding we kind of hop from foot to foot, probably only
subconsciously realizing
> what the other is doing, waiting each other out. How dumb is that?
>
> This has to do with what you said about being irritated even when they do
things right.
> I'm not sure if it's a SD issue at all, or just an interference thing, or
an older child
> thing. I won't really know until I find out if my twins irritate me with
their behavior
> toward the baby when they're older. (I'll be sure to let you know then
) ).
>
> What you wrote here:
>
> > This is what I did, I finally just made a joke out of it. Now when
> > she's doing it I say, "They already have a Mom" in as light a tone
> > as I can muster and she kind of gives me that half smile and I smile
> > at her and we go on. But on a bad day, I've been known to shout
> > through gritted teeth, "Will you STOP climbing up the little kids'
> > butts about stuff that's none of your business?!"
>
> I try the "Mom" comment, but SD tends to shoot me pissy looks then, like,
"Yeah, well if
> *I* were the Mom I'd sure as hell be keeping the baby from climbing up on
the sofa arm and
> launching herself onto the recliner." Sometimes SD is alerting me to
important stuff, but
> then other times she's forcing me to get involved with some dispute that I
wanted to
> ignore. But once she draws it to my attention in front of the other kids,
I can't pretend
> I didn't notice that twin A is bopping twin B on the head.
>
Merrie
pieces.
Merrie
Kim Scheinberg <ik...@panix.com> wrote in message
news:7rkqk3$a49$1...@panix2.panix.com...
> In our house, everyone wanted to be the one to put the last piece in the
> jigsaw puzzle. Imagine repeated scenes where, towards the end of the
> puzzle, you realize four pieces are missing because everyone has pawned
> one so that they can have the honors...
>
> jane, I just try and face the fact that I'm allergic to some people. It's
> not dislike. Or malice. Just an allergy. When I look at it in those terms,
> I don't feel like such a heel about it
>
> -k.
Merrie
If you make her job then she'll do it - what - five times tops? And
from then on you've got the last one standing designation to yourself.
In thinking about it though - you've got more than two kids, so how come
they don't all rush to the car in an attempt to get that one seat, that they
have all telepathically decided was "the" seat?
Merrie
Olga <dist...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
news:37DF4A63...@my-deja.com...
> Um, I just *really* want to be the last person out of the house. :-)
>
> Jenniferga
Olga
Olga
Kim Scheinberg wrote:
> God bless the Jews for whom cash is king
I'm assuming you're Jewish, or you wouldn't write this. Right? I'm not Jewish,
but my sister, brother, nephews and nieces are (and my father by birth, though he
says he's Lutheran :-) ). I don't like inside Jewish jokes on a NG, if only
because some might actually take them seriously.
Jennifer
Kim Scheinberg
>Kim Scheinberg wrote:
>
>> God bless the Jews for whom cash is king
>
>I'm assuming you're Jewish, or you wouldn't write this. Right?
>I don't like inside Jewish jokes on a NG, if only because some might
>actually take them seriously.
I am Jewish and, um, this isn't intended to be an inside joke. It's a
simple description of reality. Go ask in alt.weddings or soc.jewish or
whatever. Jews favor cash (or, rather, matnat kesef) as gifts. I'm talking
about the givers here, not the recipients. For weddings, it is often the
assumption that wedding cash will help fund a downpayment on a house.
Money given to a kid being bar/bat mitzvah'ed was usually expected to be
set aside for education
I really meant neither offense nor humor with my remark and I apologize if
it can be misconstrued in a way that anyone finds offensive
Michelle-the-not-quite-lurker? Can you help me out here?
Marcy
I'm not Michelle, but I'm Jewish.
I live in NY where there happens to be a large Jewish population and I
can verify that cash gifts definitely are the norm, especially for
weddings. Why? I don't really know.
In December we celebrate the holiday of Hanukkah. It's an 8 day
holiday and I won't go into the whole story except to say that in
olden times children would receive Hanukkah "gelt" (coins/money)
as a gift. In America, I've noticed some Jewish families give
non-cash gifts, perhaps because the holiday falls so close to
Christmas time, but in my home we still observe the traditional ways.
There must be something to this money thing :)
Regards,
Marcy
Robert Teeter
> Jews favor cash (or, rather, matnat kesef) as gifts. I'm talking
> about the givers here, not the recipients. For weddings, it is often the
> assumption that wedding cash will help fund a downpayment on a house.
I agree with Kim and Marcy that this is a common practice among
many American Jews. My family doesn't do this as much, but my husband's
family -- oy vey! In many families it's not just for weddings and bnai
mitvot, either. We practically have to hold my DH's grandmother down to
keep her from giving us money. (Sometimes we say "Yes, thank you" :).)
My best friend has said that graduate school was a struggle for her
because she wanted to give financial independence a try, and every time
she talked to her parents, they were "offering" (read: pleading to be
allowed) to send more money. I think there's a feeling among many of the
older generation that the kids shouldn't need to struggle as the parents
and grandparents often did.
Speaking of differing sub-cultures :)...my DH and I flew out to
Minneapolis in August for the Lutheran wedding of his (non-Jewish)
step-sister. (A trip financed, amusingly, by my DH's parents.) At the
reception, the couple had a "dollar dance" -- something I'd read about but
never seen!
Michelle
--
Michelle Geary
"I used to think only Jews, agnostics, and antisocial people went to
movies on Christmas." --Terry Gross
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
>In a previous article, "Merrie" <mer...@svn.net> said:
>
>: No - it's considered presumptuous to think someone is buying you a
>:present. You've invited them to your birthday party - their only obligation
>:is to come and help you celebrate. It's just more fun to celebrate with
>:someone you know and like well than it is to try and have fun with people
>:you hardly know.
>:
>
>Yep.
>
>: I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
>:other than the stores...
>
>I like registries, makes things much easier, but the bride or
>mother-to-be *never* gives out the information. Guests who wish to
>buy from the registry list are supposed to contact the mother of the
>bride or another member of the family and ask.
Thats what was really cool about the store I did it with, they gave me
cards to put in the invitations so everyone would know where to go :)
Mel
>Of course, when I got married in '97 and someone asked me where I
>was registered, I said "Any ATM in town."
>
Melissa Torresan
>Olga <dist...@my-deja.com> writes
>>Kim Scheinberg wrote:
>>
>>> God bless the Jews for whom cash is king
>>
>>I'm assuming you're Jewish, or you wouldn't write this. Right?
>
>>I don't like inside Jewish jokes on a NG, if only because some might
>>actually take them seriously.
>
>I am Jewish and, um, this isn't intended to be an inside joke. It's a
>simple description of reality. Go ask in alt.weddings or soc.jewish or
>whatever. Jews favor cash (or, rather, matnat kesef) as gifts. I'm talking
>about the givers here, not the recipients. For weddings, it is often the
>assumption that wedding cash will help fund a downpayment on a house.
>Money given to a kid being bar/bat mitzvah'ed was usually expected to be
>set aside for education
Hey, there's heaps of cultures in which that is the way of life :) I
went to an italian wedding once where everyone pinned envelopes to the
bride's dress with $$ in there.. I also had a Malaysian next door
neighbour who presented me with red envelopes for Chinese New Year - I
felt bad because I didn't know about it! :)
There should be a rule book for these kinds of things.. :)
Mel
>I really meant neither offense nor humor with my remark and I apologize if
>it can be misconstrued in a way that anyone finds offensive
>
>Michelle-the-not-quite-lurker? Can you help me out here?
>
>-k.
Tracey
Yep. Imagine being in position of showing up for something
and NOT knowing exactly what was happening. Happened
to a friend of mine in Turkey who was invited to a Turkish
home to celebrate their son's 'coming of age' (I think he was
turning 13.) Part of the celebration/ritual was that the son
was circumcised at that time (fortunately for my friend it
was not a 'Ya gotta WATCH this' type of thing) and then
spent the remainder of the party laying on a couch, bandaged
up, while people came up and gave him cash gifts. Brought
out the discussion 'So, how much is the standard gift for a
circumscision?'
--
Tracey
--
"I used to think that life should be fair.
But then I realized it's better that life
is unfair. If life is fair, it would mean
we deserve all the terrible things that
happen to us."
- Marcus, Ranger extraordinaire.
lilblakdog
news:IVzD3.241$Fh.1...@typhoon-sf.snfc21.pbi.net...
> I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came
from,
> other than the stores...
Ook!
When DH and I got married, my MIL kept bugging me to find out if I'd
registered or not. I had *no* intention of doing so--I thought the whole
idea was...well...crass. I have a big book of "Miss Manners' Guide to
Etiquette" and I just love to pour over everything I do wrong, but this one
I *knew* felt wrong to me.
I mean, think about it. You tell these people exactly what you want, right
down to the brand name they're supposed to buy. What if they can't afford
that brand? Does it mean that you wouldn't accept a different one? And
what if a better brand was on sale for less than the one you wanted? Would
you like that? The whole thing was just ridiculous to me!
I did do it, though...for my MIL's sake. But I didn't tell anyone, because
I hated the thought of guiding these people to this list of the *only*
things we wanted.
In the end, my aunt bought me some of the china off of it (I *did* always
want a good tea set). When her grown son wanted to buy me a wok, she said,
"But it's not on their list! They don't want one!" My cousin said, "They
just don't realize how *much* they want one." And it's true--between the
wok and the rice cooker, I think we could throw just about everything else
out. Oh...except for the Hudson's Bay blanket...and the television...and we
probably wouldn't do too well without the bed or the matress set....
Then there's the baby registry. I shouldn't even get started on how I feel
about that! Not only did my much-disliked BIL send out a list to everyone
about the gifts that they would like for their unborn child, but it had a
"Please No" section, where they outlawed Baby Disney, Baby Looney Tunes,
Precious Moments, anything baby pink or baby blue, etc.!
lil (who wonders if she gets to register for the divorce...or does
everybody else register for what they want out of our "estate"???)
Merrie
I'm sorry. How do you make a smiley face with the eyes closed shut.
Tracey <rbra...@mediaone.net> wrote in message
news:37DFCB26...@mediaone.net...
Tracey
Oh, Merrie, that was so bad, it was good! :P
Merrie
Merrie
lilblakdog <lbdcre...@dog.com> wrote in message
news:z_PD3.381$jy4....@newscontent-01.sprint.ca...
Olga
race is *who gets to open the car door*. And I am proud to say my SD leaves
that race to the twins, since apparently the thrill of operating the car door
palls in comparison to getting to leave the house last.
Jennifer
Merrie wrote:
> Jenolgafer -
>
> If you make her job then she'll do it - what - five times tops? And
> from then on you've got the last one standing designation to yourself.
> In thinking about it though - you've got more than two kids, so how come
> they don't all rush to the car in an attempt to get that one seat, that they
> have all telepathically decided was "the" seat?
>
> Merrie
>
> Olga <dist...@my-deja.com> wrote in message
> news:37DF4A63...@my-deja.com...
Olga
Children." It's great!
Jennifer
Olga
Hello!
>
> I agree with Kim and Marcy that this is a common practice among
> many American Jews.
Yes, this is true, I've done my share of weddings, bris(es??), Bar Mitzvahs,
etc. Still, just because there's some reality behind the statement doesn't
make the generalization less offensive. It's because so many people who are
anti-Semitic take this kind of statement *seriously* that it's best to avoid
making these types of statements. JMHO.
Jennifer :)
Melissa Torresan
>
>Melissa Torresan <torre...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
>> Well, really, when you think about it, why *shouldn't* SK let anyone
>> coming to his party know what he's interested in so they will get him
>> a present that he will like? Don't most of us ask others what they
>> want for a gift so that we get them something they need - instead of
>> another knife block to match the three they already have?
>>
> No - it's considered presumptuous to think someone is buying you a
>present. You've invited them to your birthday party - their only obligation
>is to come and help you celebrate. It's just more fun to celebrate with
>someone you know and like well than it is to try and have fun with people
>you hardly know.
I guess that's true.. at the same time, it would be a great idea for
Mum's to put a little note in "Just in case you want to get a present,
kid's latest passions are : " simply because if you are inviting kids
from school that you don't know the parents of, you are likely to get
a phonecall asking what to buy for a present..
> I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
>other than the stores...
Well I cannot tell you what a great idea I thought it was.. they gave
us little cards to stick in with the invitations so everyone would
know where to go.. still my parents got phonecalls from people "What
do they want??" and still I got three knife blocks. I think its mainly
because <with bridal at least> most people don't know what colours you
want and its *so* hard to explain colours over the phone! :)
I went into the store, and found these forest green towels, which I
really liked, and I found out they were called Papaya - stupid kind of
name for that colour, I thought at the time.. turns out someone had
stuck the wrong tag on it, and Papaya was a really awful apricot
colour.. the store was great about me changing them over because it
was all on the registry and I didn't have to go upsetting guests for
receipts.. :)
Mel
>Merrie
>
>
>
>
Jennaii
graduations. I also LIKE registries. My cousins registered for EVERYTHING (at
Target I think) from Corelleware to utensils and small kitchen appliances to
fine china (Penny's I think). From $2 to $200 there was something you could
afford. I HATE having to guess...
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
Vicki Robinson
:I believe in cash for wedding gifts, bar mitzvahs, church confirmations and
:graduations. I also LIKE registries. My cousins registered for EVERYTHING (at
:Target I think) from Corelleware to utensils and small kitchen appliances to
:fine china (Penny's I think). From $2 to $200 there was something you could
:afford. I HATE having to guess...
I agree! I look at a registry as a very specific list of
"like-to-haves"; I always feel free to get something else if I want
to. I have heard of couples or mothers of the bride calling a guest
and saying "you got the wrong framistanz; it's not from the list."
WTF?!?!?!? That's rude. But if a registry is done right, then it's
useful.
Vicki
Linda Neal
>
> I believe in cash for wedding gifts, bar mitzvahs, church confirmations and
> graduations. I also LIKE registries. My cousins registered for EVERYTHING (at
> Target I think)
And one of my best friend's daughters registered at both Target and
Macy's. Something for everyone!
Linda
Olga
Yes, we all like it the moolah...but the idea behind giving a gift is that the person
doing the giving has made a thoughtful effort to consider what might most please the
recipient. (And don't say "cash" here). Presumably you're giving gifts to friends,
people with whom you can be expected to have a relationship that extends to knowing
what said people might like.
Jennifer
Sian Lee Reid
> Jennaii wrote:
> >
> > I believe in cash for wedding gifts, bar mitzvahs, church confirmations and
> > graduations. I also LIKE registries. My cousins registered for
EVERYTHING (at
> > Target I think)
>
> And one of my best friend's daughters registered at both Target and
> Macy's. Something for everyone!
>
Am I the only person in the world who registered at their local
independent bookstore...?
Sian
Sian Lee Reid
> I think registries are presumptuous, but I think cash is tacky :)
>
> Yes, we all like it the moolah...but the idea behind giving a gift is
that the person
> doing the giving has made a thoughtful effort to consider what might
most please the
> recipient. (And don't say "cash" here). Presumably you're giving gifts
to friends,
> people with whom you can be expected to have a relationship that extends
to knowing
> what said people might like.
>
I think that' s culturally specific assumption, and a fairly new one at
that. Wedding gifts, and shower gifts as well, were originally to help
the couple establish a household. In many cultures, this means cash. It
is not considered any less 'thoughtful', in fact, it is considered much
more flexible, because the couple can make their own choices about what to
do with it.
A good friend (Italian) was talking about the large, lavish reception he
had at his wedding. At the time, he was a graduate student, and not
exactly flush, but he was confident about throwing a five course
reception/dinner dance for 200 people because the norms in his community
were that people gave gifts of money in order to help defray the reception
costs, in the same way that they would expect to pay for a meal at a
restaurant. This made perfect sense to me, although it was not a
perspective I'd ever encountered before...
Sian
Tracey
>independent bookstore...?
Well, I didn't register anywhere, but when a couple of friends
asked what I needed (and since both hubby and I already had
'established' households), I mentioned that cookbooks and
housekeeping/organization books would be nice.
For me, a gift certificate at a bookstore is always appreciated
and used very quickly!
Vicki Robinson
:at his wedding. At the time, he was a graduate student, and not
:exactly flush, but he was confident about throwing a five course
:reception/dinner dance for 200 people because the norms in his community
:were that people gave gifts of money in order to help defray the reception
:costs, in the same way that they would expect to pay for a meal at a
:restaurant. This made perfect sense to me, although it was not a
:perspective I'd ever encountered before...
Ann Landers published a letter taking her to task for saying that a
wedding present should be what the guest could afford and wanted to
give. The letter declared that "everyone knows" that the gift ought
to cost *at least* as much as the dinner that the guest would eat, and
should rightfully be more than that, and so, if you can't afford a
gift of at least $200 per person, you should decline the invitation.
I was horrified.
Nikki Murphy
because people often 'expect' it these days as so many couples already live
together.
There's stuff on there from USD5 to about USD75 maximum.
But we put on our wedding info that we sent to everyone
'It's your presence that is required, not your presents'
Everyone coming is present enough for me!
Nikki
walk...@eisner.decus.org
>
> Vicki Robinson <vjr...@piper.xcski.com> wrote in message
> news:7rqr0o$ub3$1...@piper.xcski.com...
>> In a previous article, slr...@alfred.carleton.ca (Sian Lee Reid) said:
>>
>> :at his wedding. At the time, he was a graduate student, and not
>> :exactly flush, but he was confident about throwing a five course
>> :reception/dinner dance for 200 people because the norms in his community
>> :were that people gave gifts of money in order to help defray the
> reception
>> :costs, in the same way that they would expect to pay for a meal at a
>> :restaurant. This made perfect sense to me, although it was not a
>> :perspective I'd ever encountered before...
>>
>> Ann Landers published a letter taking her to task for saying that a
>> wedding present should be what the guest could afford and wanted to
>> give. The letter declared that "everyone knows" that the gift ought
>> to cost *at least* as much as the dinner that the guest would eat, and
>> should rightfully be more than that, and so, if you can't afford a
>> gift of at least $200 per person, you should decline the invitation.
>>
>> I was horrified.
>>
>> Vicki
>
> if any, she got from that article.
>
> Denise
I think Vicki was saying that *A LETTER WRITER* (NOT Ann Landers) was the one
saying that the gift should cost as least as much as the dinner.
I think that was horrifying as well. Ann's position was that the present
should be what the guest could afford and wanted to give.
-- GW
walk...@eisner.decus.org
> I guess that's true.. at the same time, it would be a great idea for
> Mum's to put a little note in "Just in case you want to get a present,
> kid's latest passions are : " simply because if you are inviting kids
> from school that you don't know the parents of, you are likely to get
> a phonecall asking what to buy for a present..
No, the mother should not put a note in. That's still being presumptuous.
It's absolutely right that the child being invited, or his/her parent,
can call and ask what the birthday child would like if they do want
to buy something. You seem to be implying that it's a bad thing if
the birthday child's family has to get phone calls from invited guests'
parents that they don't know. Seems to me it would be a good thing
for parents to chat with the parents of the child having a party before
their child goes to the party.
Most invitations my children get ask people to RSVP anyway, so we still
have to call. I'll either ask at that time what the child is interested
in, or I'll ask my child what the birthday child likes.
>> I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
>>other than the stores...
>
> Well I cannot tell you what a great idea I thought it was.. they gave
> us little cards to stick in with the invitations so everyone would
> know where to go.. still my parents got phonecalls from people "What
> do they want??" and still I got three knife blocks. I think its mainly
> because <with bridal at least> most people don't know what colours you
> want and its *so* hard to explain colours over the phone! :)
I like registries just fine - I used one when I married and I like to
use them for other people. Though I haven't known anyone who registered
for baby gifts, just for weddings. But I wouldn't like to see a card telling
me where people are registered in with the invitation, that seems
presumptuous to me. And yeah, I ended up with 2 woks and 3 popcorn
poppers but I wasn't annoyed at people who got us presents! I think
of registries as suggestions, not requirements. There ARE NO requirements.
-- GW
ELD
Seriously, though, I know I personally felt very resentful, then felt
guilty because I was getting the impression that I had nothing to be
resentful over! It's all very confusing, but actually admitting that I
had a right to feel resentful about things was a big help in getting to
the next step in trying to make things better.
In article <37DD7539...@worldnet.att.net>, rob...@worldnet.att.net
says...
> I can't figure out if you guys are being sarcastic or not! I must
> be sarcasm challenged. :-D
>
> Anne
>
> jane lawrence wrote:
> >
> > Sian Lee Reid wrote:
> > >
> > > >
> > > Not the poster child, just the one who persists in agonizing it, analyzing
> > > it, and searching for ways to overcome it, out here on the public
> > > usenet... :)
> > >
> > >
> > I really like that about Anne.
> >
> > jane
>
ELD
And she's pretty genuine with it too, it's not all fakey-gushy-mushy that
makes you want to gag.
But, when she sees my daughter (on drop-offs or pick-ups, etc.) she gets
a glimmer of sadness in her eyes. She always told SO that she didn't
want more kids, that SD was trouble enough, but I can tell just by the
look in her eyes that she's sad that I got that opportunity with SO and
not her.
Also, if we ever end up talking on the phone, she always asks how my
daughter is before anything else. It's weird. She's quite sincere about
it, so I can't shove it angrily back at her, you know?
In article <7rj7gq$2eo$1...@panix2.panix.com>, ik...@panix.com says...
> Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> writes
>
> >When BM came and picked SD up, she brought Brooke a little pair of
> >cowboy boots. I've always thrown her presents to Brooke right out,
> >because I am mean, petty and spiteful. And when I saw the boots, being
> >already furious with DH, I said to him, "I don't want any of her
> >Salvation Army crap on my kids." Then Brooke came into the room and
> >put the boots on and said to me, "These are my boots!" And I snapped,
> >"No they're not. Take them off!" And the hurt on her face, I can't even
> >tell you. It was awful, and I am never, ever going to say one word about
> >a present BM gives her. I can't believe I hurt my baby out of my stupid
> >spiteful dislike of BM. She said, "But <SD's> mommy SAID they were!" and
> >the tears were just welling up in her eyes... And I still feel hateful
> >about it.
>
> This post is a perfect example of what so many of us, as step-parents,
> complain about. We love/like/whatever kids whose parents would prefer we
> have nothing to do with them and we wonder why they don't appreciate us
>
> Anne, if you can try to look at it from this light, it might be easier
> for you to see the goodwill in her gesture
>
> I view Max as Switzerland. Completely neutral. When we (dh, myself, SD, BM
> and BM's new beau) were all at SS's graduation and BM wanted to hold Max?
> I handed him right over. And she was great with him. And why not? He's not
> a party to all the bad history between all of us, and he's her kids'
> brother (I'm one of the posters who hates the term half-sibling)
>
> I realize some of you have other issues with BM's who are neglectful or
> simply dangerous to their own kids. But our BM has been nothing but a
> great mom, why should I poison Max against her?
>
> And to anyone who *wasn't* around three years ago when I first got here
> and was in the middle of WW3 with BM? Consider this post one of hope.
> Attitudes can change. Ice caps can melt. We still wouldn't think of
> inviting BM and her SO over for a 4th of July picnic. But it's getting
> better all the time
>
> -k.
>
Lori
Anne Robotti <rob...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
news:37DD0972...@worldnet.att.net...
> When BM came and picked SD up, she brought Brooke a little pair of
> cowboy boots. I've always thrown her presents to Brooke right out,
> because I am mean, petty and spiteful. And when I saw the boots, being
> already furious with DH, I said to him, "I don't want any of her
> Salvation Army crap on my kids."
Most of what my child wears came from places like Goodwill, Salvation Army,
etc. Although I understand your feelings about BM (given how I feel about
our BM), I'm getting the impression that those of us who clothe our kids in
what we can afford are somehow beneath you on some level. I wouldn't think
that would be a view you'd want your child to grow up having. I hope I'm
mistaken about you, because this impression just instantly colored the good
impression I'd had of you until now.
Lori
jane lawrence
> Can I,
> without sounding too defensive :), ask for suggestions about how to phrase
> it if and when certain things that are stressful for him still feel not
> rude to me?
Within limits, I don't even think it matters whether it seems
rude to you or not. Some people don't care if their kids tell
them to fuck off. Others feel their temperature rising if the
kid is mildly sarcastic. Basically, if it's driving your mate
nuts, it's affecting you and your whole family. A lot of people
seem to feel that they should let their mate and their kids
handle their own issues. I can see that. I'm just not sure how
they are supposed to do it.
A year or so ago, I had a huge, monumental problem with my
younger SS calling things "gay" when he thought they were
stupid. The expression doesn't bother DH at all, but it's a
nonnegotiable issue in my home. To me, it's as offensive as
calling black people "niggers" or jews "kikes." When other
people's kids do it, I send them home. When my daughter did it,
I grounded her. Neither of those was really an option with my
SS, who was visiting. So I told my husband that it was his job
to deal with it. I believe my exact words were, "Take him out
of this house and don't bring him back until you've gotten this
straightened out."
Now with my SD, who lives with us, I'd handle this differently.
I'd handle it myself if I were alone with SD then tell DH
later. If DH was here, I'd expect him to jump right on it, even
though he doesn't feel it's rude.
So what do you want your husband to do? Do you want him to
point out behavior directly to SD? Do you want him to go
through you? Do you want him to just shut up about it? If DH
is to discipline SD directly, then what, specifically, do you
want him to do? Should he send her to her room? Can he ground
her? Take away her phone privileges? I mean, short of moving
out, what are his options for dealing with behavior that he
considers inappropriate? What's okay with you?
jane
jane lawrence
>
>
> Well, really, when you think about it, why *shouldn't* SK let anyone
> coming to his party know what he's interested in so they will get him
> a present that he will like? Don't most of us ask others what they
> want for a gift so that we get them something they need - instead of
> another knife block to match the three they already have?
>
> little note on the invite about what the kid's latest passion is.. I
> know when my sister had a 3rd bday party for nephew, most of the mum's
> called and asked what he would like.
I usually go by the invitation. If it's got Pikachu on it, I
get pokemon cards. If it's got Batman on it, I get a batmobile.
If it's got Barbie on it, I get a microscope.
jane
ELD
daughter, I will say to her "Now it's time to let ME be the mom." With
just a hint of sarcasm that she gets the hint.
In article <37DD7747...@worldnet.att.net>, rob...@worldnet.att.net
says...
> Ah yes, grasshopper. You have come to the one who knows ALL about
> how a kid can drive you nuts without ever putting a foot wrong. This
> bugs the living shit out of me too, and it's MUCH worse with SD
> parenting my little ones! It's a constant thing the whole time she's
> here.
>
> This is what I did, I finally just made a joke out of it. Now when
> she's doing it I say, "They already have a Mom" in as light a tone
> as I can muster and she kind of gives me that half smile and I smile
> at her and we go on. But on a bad day, I've been known to shout
> through gritted teeth, "Will you STOP climbing up the little kids'
> butts about stuff that's none of your business?!" I was completely
> unable to head it off also, and then everybody goes and makes it
> worse by telling me, "That's just kids." Yeah, well fuck you very
> much, that does NOT help me. A little code phrase like, "Stop bossing
> her," which *you* know in your heart of hearts means "Stop fucking
> bossing her" might help, I do that with "Could you please vaccuum the
> living room" which *I* know means "Get up off your lazy ass." :-)
>
> The other stuff, the "them doing things together stuff", I have the
> same thing here with SD playing our (me and Brooke's) nighttime game
> and saying prayers with us. Yes, I am such a rotten bitch that I
> begrudge the child wanting to say her prayers with us, what corner
> of hell is reserved for me? :-D But it's me and Brooke's personal,
> *PRIVATE* time, and it's SO hard for me to have anybody else do it
> with us. And knowing that SD is hanging around *wanting* to be in on
> it is just as bad. One thing I've really tried to do about this is
> to just say to myself during the day, "Gee, tonight it will be nice
> when the three of us say our prayers." Positive visualization, you
> know? I've done this about a number of issues, including SD coming
> to church with me and Brooke, SD coming period... It sounds hokey
> but it really helps.
>
> Anne
>
> jane lawrence wrote:
> >
> > Anne Robotti wrote:
> > >
> > >
> > >
> > > Michelle, I'd be glad to correspond with your DH about this, if you don't think
> > > I'd just make it worse, seething pot of resentment that I am. :-D Because if he
> > > feels like I feel, it's not a good place to be. I'd be glad to talk to you offline
> > > too, if you want. I notice I'm named in the header, what am I? The poster child
> > > for resentment on the group now? ;-D
> > >
> > >
> >
> > Okay. Since you're on such a roll, Anne, maybe you can help me.
> >
> > I'm having trouble with SD's relationship with biodaughter. It
> > bugs me. In part, I think I feel pushed aside because they do
> > things together that my daughter and I used to do. I'm working
> > on sorting that out.
> >
> > One thing that I can't get a handle on at all is the way 16 yo
> > SD "parents" 12 yo BD. It's like chalk on a blackboard to me.
> > I hear her tell her to do or not do something and it sets my
> > teeth on edge. I don't want this to develop into a major issue,
> > but for some reason I feel unable to head it off. I've
> > discussed it with DH, who agrees to help. It's hard to figure
> > out how he can help, though. I mean, what do you say when the
> > kid isn't doing anything "wrong" and it *still* drives you nuts?
> >
> > jane
>
Kim Scheinberg
>
>Now with my SD, who lives with us, I'd handle this differently.
Okay, I know my head's been jammed up lately, but did I miss
a beat somewhere?
Since when is SD living with you again?
-k.
--
ik...@panix.com | The Max Cam is up and running! Try it:
Kim Scheinberg | www.panix.com/~jzk TAKE PICTURE
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
This is one bone I have to pick with you lucky American people.. do
you have any idea how hard it is to get themed invitations over here?
You can get stuff thats been around for ages, like bananas in pyjamas
and barney and thomas the tank and barbie.. but new stuff? forget it!
Ive seen Pokemon invitations at one place only, and thats Birthday
express - ONLINE!! They're pretty well priced, and if hes still into
Pokemon two months before the birthday, I might suggest to BM that we
go halves in a party pack. :)
If anyone in Australia has come across Pokemon party stuff, can you
*please* let me know! :)
Whats more.. we don't get twinkies! I LOVE twinkies! There is no
baskin robbins in this state - they are all on the east coast!
Think of me.. poor twinkieless Mel next time you have a twinkie :)
Mel
>jane
Melissa Torresan
>In article <37dfa9a0...@192.168.0.13>, torre...@hotmail.com (Melissa Torresan) writes:
>> I guess that's true.. at the same time, it would be a great idea for
>> Mum's to put a little note in "Just in case you want to get a present,
>> kid's latest passions are : " simply because if you are inviting kids
>> from school that you don't know the parents of, you are likely to get
>> a phonecall asking what to buy for a present..
>
>No, the mother should not put a note in. That's still being presumptuous.
>It's absolutely right that the child being invited, or his/her parent,
>can call and ask what the birthday child would like if they do want
>to buy something. You seem to be implying that it's a bad thing if
>the birthday child's family has to get phone calls from invited guests'
>parents that they don't know. Seems to me it would be a good thing
>for parents to chat with the parents of the child having a party before
>their child goes to the party.
Yeah, you're probably right.. still, its no reason for BM to scream
and shout at SK when he did not know any better.. :( I mean, hes 6..
he's not going to know everything about everything, and it would have
been much better to explain to SK - You can't tell people what present
to get you - rather than what she actually did - in case you missed it
here tis :
>How dare you write that kind of
>stuff to people? Thats disgusting.. you don't ask people for the kind
>of presents you want! You take what they give you - and just for that,
>you're not having any toys for a week - and she marched in there, and
>started taking his toys away - then she yells out - NO POKEMON VIDEOS,
>EITHER!!
SK was in tears.. and I wanted to scoop him up and take him back home
with us instead of leaving him there with her.
>Most invitations my children get ask people to RSVP anyway, so we still
>have to call. I'll either ask at that time what the child is interested
>in, or I'll ask my child what the birthday child likes.
>
>>> I don't know where the heck the bridal/baby registry concept came from,
>>>other than the stores...
>>
>> Well I cannot tell you what a great idea I thought it was.. they gave
>> us little cards to stick in with the invitations so everyone would
>> know where to go.. still my parents got phonecalls from people "What
>> do they want??" and still I got three knife blocks. I think its mainly
>> because <with bridal at least> most people don't know what colours you
>> want and its *so* hard to explain colours over the phone! :)
>
>I like registries just fine - I used one when I married and I like to
>use them for other people. Though I haven't known anyone who registered
>for baby gifts, just for weddings. But I wouldn't like to see a card telling
>me where people are registered in with the invitation, that seems
>presumptuous to me. And yeah, I ended up with 2 woks and 3 popcorn
>poppers but I wasn't annoyed at people who got us presents! I think
>of registries as suggestions, not requirements. There ARE NO requirements.
Iit did mention on the card that people are not *required* to purchase
presents from that store, and people were quite welcome to come along
and just see what we wanted and what colours we were going with. To be
honest, I did not think putting them in with the invitations was such
a great idea, either.. but it *did* save my Mum a lot of headaches..
There was stuff from AUS $5 up to AUS$80 - we did not go for any
really expensive stuff, because we did not want people to feel like
they had to spend huge amounts of money on us.. to be honest, we both
worked in the electrical industry, so we had all the stuff we needed
in that area!
Mel
>-- GW
jane lawrence
>
>
> Since when is SD living with you again?
My fault. It took me a while to catch on myself. Since July.
jane
Tracey
writes:
>My fault. It took me a while to catch on myself. Since July.
>
Uhm, was it one of those situations where they spend a few
nights, have some clothes there, then, before you know it,
it's been a couple of months and they're walking in the door
saying 'What's for dinner?' Been there, except it wasn't a
stepchild.
Tracey
jane lawrence
>
>
> Uhm, was it one of those situations where they spend a few
> nights, have some clothes there, then, before you know it,
> it's been a couple of months and they're walking in the door
> saying 'What's for dinner?' Been there, except it wasn't a
> stepchild.
>
started. Now I'm shopping for a bureau.
That's why I'm going through all these adjustment difficulties
now, even though she's been here for months.
jane
jane lawrence
I've been thinking everyone's advice over.
It seems to me that there are a couple of different things going
on.
There's the resentment that I have less time with BD. I can
work around that.
Then, there's the general awkwardness of anyone else parenting
my kid. It seems weird to have anyone else correct her when I'm
sitting right there. I don't know about you all, but it makes
me feel as though I've missed something I should have caught.
That's probably because I always wish kids' parents would say
something before I have to. I'm uncomfortable with it.
Another aspect of the situation is that SD is not uncomfortable
with it at all. She tells people's kids what to do all the
time. We've had discussions about it, but they don't seem to
have much effect. She knows what her aunts and uncles and
mother and all our friends are doing wrong, and she's determined
to show them the way and straighten those kids out. In this,
she reminds me of her mother when we were younger. Absolute
certainty based on no knowledge or experience whatsoever. It
drives me nuts.
Then, there's another thing that I have NO idea what to do about
because I only had one kid of my own. If BD went to SD for
advice and got a sensible answer, I could handle it. I know
because it happens, and it's okay. Other times, I can't get
away from the idea that if they weren't living in the same
house, I wouldn't encourage BD to hang around with SD at all.
Some of this may be left over from the whole shoplifting
episode. But even beyond that, I'm not happy with BD being
exposed to SD's view of sex, school, alcohol, drugs, AIDS, etc.
I do not want is BD dealing with these issues as SD has. So
what do I do?
Vicki Robinson
:. Now I'm shopping for a bureau.
:
May I recommend the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms? Everyone
could use a jack-booted thug now and then.
jane lawrence
>
> In a previous article, jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> said:
>
> :. Now I'm shopping for a bureau.
> :
>
> May I recommend the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms? Everyone
> could use a jack-booted thug now and then.
>
>
jane
Merrie
The solitary vacation seemed like such a nice idea...
jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:37E28610...@excite.com...
Merrie
apart) attitudes were shaped more by our peers than by our siblings.
How's SD doing with her friends? Did she stay in contact with old ones or
is she having to make new ones. I'm presuming that BD already has a well
established base of friends. Are they rooming together?
Merrie
jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:37E28518...@excite.com...
jane lawrence
>
> For myself and my sister (22 months apart) and for both SSs (18 months
> apart) attitudes were shaped more by our peers than by our siblings.
> How's SD doing with her friends? Did she stay in contact with old ones or
> is she having to make new ones. I'm presuming that BD already has a well
> established base of friends. Are they rooming together?
>
It's all such a mess, Merrie. SD had friends here from before,
but just as she came out we had to confront the whole
wide-spread alcohol and pot consumption issue. Kids are
experimenting. They're also driving. Neither DH nor I have the
heart to urge her to call those friends, because we know that
we're not comfortable with her hanging around at their houses
anyway. So she's communicating mainly with her East Coast
friends and BD.
Meanwhile, my nephews, who could fill some of the gap, were
caught shoplifting. They're grounded for several more weeks.
The girls go over there sometimes, but there's no tv, stereo,
etc.
BD has friends, but she's just reestablishing contact after the
round of summer visitations with divorced parents. SD tends to
moan about BD taking off, too.
I'm whining, aren't I?
jane
Merrie
vent on my use of "anyone's kids" (in crazy bones post). That should have
been offensive enough.
Isn't SD a junior? Just how unavoidable do you think the alcohol and
pot are? How well do you know the parents of SD's old friends and what is
the level of drug/alcohol use? Is she driving? Now I'm asking a million
questions...
In general - I get the impression that SD's social life isn't your
responsibility. However, I see cultivating acceptable friends for her keeps
her from filling the social gap with BD.
I would think you would want to encourage her to establish her own
friends and that being able to drive is an asset to her. It might not hurt
to go with her to a school football game or two. Kids that are at games are
not down in the orchard smokin' and drinkin'. ( That's not to say they never
do - but that they do have alternatives methods of entertainment.) If she
goes she'll discover who else is going and they may strike up a friendship
and go together - then you don't have to.
What is your policy on the driving/drinking/drug using and etc?
Merrie
jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:37E29B5E...@excite.com...
jane lawrence
>
> You're not whining - you're explaining. If you want to whine, go post a
> vent on my use of "anyone's kids" (in crazy bones post). That should have
> been offensive enough.
>
> Isn't SD a junior? Just how unavoidable do you think the alcohol and
> pot are? How well do you know the parents of SD's old friends and what is
> the level of drug/alcohol use? Is she driving? Now I'm asking a million
> questions...
She's not driving. Most of the other kids are. I think that
experimentation is common but not universal. I'm not really
worried about SD's substance use or abuse. OTOH, I don't have a
lot of faith in her when it comes to getting into a car with
someone who is impaired. Besides drinking has become the focal
point of socializing among teens around here. I'd like her to
find things she's interested in to do.
>
> In general - I get the impression that SD's social life isn't your
> responsibility. However, I see cultivating acceptable friends for her keeps
> her from filling the social gap with BD.
Yes, and it would hugely increase my chances of getting one
minute to myself.
>
> I would think you would want to encourage her to establish her own
> friends and that being able to drive is an asset to her. It might not hurt
> to go with her to a school football game or two.
Me!!? A football game! I'm trying to think of a circumstance
in which I would consent to go to a high school football game.
Let me just say that if my life depended on it, I'd be weighing
grandchildren against arthritis.
> Kids that are at games are
> not down in the orchard smokin' and drinkin'. ( That's not to say they never
> do - but that they do have alternatives methods of entertainment.) If she
> goes she'll discover who else is going and they may strike up a friendship
> and go together - then you don't have to.
>
> What is your policy on the driving/drinking/drug using and etc?
>
I'm liberal about adults drinking and smoking pot. I think it's
a bad thing for teens to learn to socialize by masking their
insecurities and inhibitions. I don't serve alcohol to teens
here, but at least half the people I know do. If my 18 year old
SS had a beer I wouldn't care, though. Drinking and driving at
any age is a big issue for me.
jane
jane lawrence
>
> I've just got to ask about how your vacation fits in with this timeline.
> The solitary vacation seemed like such a nice idea...
The vacation was fine. The problem was that DH and his ex could
not decide where SD would spend the next year. I didn't really
think it was that much of an issue, so I wasn't planning for
this. I had been waiting for her to leave. Now that she's
staying, I feel caught off guard.
Do you know what I mean? All our conversations focussed on what
she could do to work things out back there. I didn't set limits
about things because she was a guest. For a few weeks I can do
without things like privacy and solitude and a phone. Now that
she's here long term, I really feel that I'm playing catch up.
SD feels that the rules have changed all of a sudden. It's
difficult.
jane
Kim Scheinberg
>Merrie wrote:
>she could do to work things out back there. I didn't set limits
>about things because she was a guest. For a few weeks I can do
>without things like privacy and solitude and a phone. Now that
>she's here long term, I really feel that I'm playing catch up.
>SD feels that the rules have changed all of a sudden. It's difficult.
Can't you use the summer viz school situation to your favor?
My SS had different rules over the summer and he had no problems
understanding that the beginning of school meant the end of phone
calls after 10PM or kitchen privs after 9PM. That sort of thing
Mind you, it's taken a bit longer for his friends to get the messages
that his phone can't ring after 10
Perhaps you can try to enforce some "in your room doing homework, no
phone calls" time each day that will give you your phone and
your solitude
jane lawrence
>
>
> Can't you use the summer viz school situation to your favor?
>
> My SS had different rules over the summer and he had no problems
> understanding that the beginning of school meant the end of phone
> calls after 10PM or kitchen privs after 9PM. That sort of thing
>
> Mind you, it's taken a bit longer for his friends to get the messages
> that his phone can't ring after 10
>
> Perhaps you can try to enforce some "in your room doing homework, no
> phone calls" time each day that will give you your phone and
> your solitude
>
>
All right, all right, I give up. Yes, I think that things will
go more smoothly once SD gets into her school year schedule.
My husband is a wonderful man. For some reason, he cannot seem
to get his child enrolled in school. It's driving me crazy. I
feel like lil with the car parked at her mother's house
(although I can't quite believe her mother actually screams at
her about it).
jane
lilblakdog
> I
> feel like lil with the car parked at her mother's house
> (although I can't quite believe her mother actually screams at
> her about it).
Spoken like someone who's never heard my mom in action! :-)
I actually had to yell back at her last night, "ALRIGHT, YOU'VE GOT MORE
THAN ONE TONE OF VOICE--USE IT!!!"
She was actually quite polite about the car for awhile. Phrases like, "I
thought that car was only going to be here a week?" and "I know that it's
not your car, but...."
But as time went on and her flowers continued to bloom, hidden behind the
rusted carcass of a Hyundai Pony, she got a little more annoyed. Suddenly
it was, "I KNOW THAT IT'S NOT YOUR CAR, BUT..." and "WHAT THE HELL IS HE
PLANNING ON DOING WITH THAT DAMNED CAR???"
Then there were the cards that the auto wreckers would leave in her mail
slot!
lil
Kim Scheinberg
>
>All right, all right, I give up. Yes, I think that things will
>go more smoothly once SD gets into her school year schedule.
>
>My husband is a wonderful man. For some reason, he cannot seem
>to get his child enrolled in school. It's driving me crazy. I
She's not in school yet!?!
Ohmygod. And you're not in jail yet for homicide? I'm impressed
lilblakdog
>lil, why don't you just tell your DH to come get it or you will let is be
>towed?
Well, because that just leaves myself open to being blamed for the car we
*might* have had. He *might* have fixed it. We *might* have found a buyer.
We *might* have been able to take it to Calgary with us, where there is no
AirCare.
Believe me, Lynne, it's what I'd like to do. I just *hate* leaving myself
open to that.
However, I finally told DH that the neighbor wanted it. And I picked up the
keys. So any day now, the neighbor kid will come get it and it'll all be
done with.
lil
Merrie
bad guy...
Seriously - I think it's unhealthy for her to not be in school. Not so
much academically but socially and emotionally. We just finished the third
week. What is the hang- up? Records? SD reluctant? DH just not aware of
his responsibility here?
Merrie
jane lawrence <jan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:37E2C827...@excite.com...
> Kim Scheinberg wrote:
> >
> >
> > Can't you use the summer viz school situation to your favor?
> >
> > My SS had different rules over the summer and he had no problems
> > understanding that the beginning of school meant the end of phone
> > calls after 10PM or kitchen privs after 9PM. That sort of thing
> >
> > Mind you, it's taken a bit longer for his friends to get the messages
> > that his phone can't ring after 10
> >
> > Perhaps you can try to enforce some "in your room doing homework, no
> > phone calls" time each day that will give you your phone and
> > your solitude
> >
> >
>
> All right, all right, I give up. Yes, I think that things will
> go more smoothly once SD gets into her school year schedule.
>
> My husband is a wonderful man. For some reason, he cannot seem
> to get his child enrolled in school. It's driving me crazy. I
> feel like lil with the car parked at her mother's house
> (although I can't quite believe her mother actually screams at
> her about it).
>
> jane