Speaking of stepparenting...
Lori
We got him back from her on Jan 2 after a five day visit for Christmas (only
the 4th or 5th time he's even been to her home since coming to live with us
at the beginning of last summer), and she has not called, written, emailed,
etc, since.
Lori
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ni...@impactwp.com
"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3wYYb.511$dU3...@fe01.usenetserver.com...
> SS asked me the other day when his mom would call, or come see him again.
> We got him back from her on Jan 2 after a five day visit for Christmas
(only
> the 4th or 5th time he's even been to her home since coming to live with
us
> at the beginning of last summer), and she has not called, written,
emailed,
> etc, since.
> Lori
So help him by initiating the contact.
Nikki
Kerri Clair
>SS asked me the other day when his mom would call, or come see him again.
>We got him back from her on Jan 2 after a five day visit for Christmas (only
>the 4th or 5th time he's even been to her home since coming to live with us
>at the beginning of last summer), and she has not called, written, emailed,
>etc, since.
Since you don't know when she might call, tell him the truth....you don't know.
Don't add judgements to the conversation, it's likely he already feels bad
enough about the situation and depending upon his age and maturity level the
real question he may be asking is "Do you think she WILL call?"
Just answer the question simply, you don't know. Then offer to help him
contact her if that's what he would like.
-Kerri
kitty
her.
"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3wYYb.511$dU3...@fe01.usenetserver.com...
Angie Reynolds
turned into a freakin' politics/economy and religion board!!
Angie
"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3wYYb.511$dU3...@fe01.usenetserver.com...
Anne Robotti
<j3...@sat-co.net> wrote:
>Oh my god....this IS still a step parenting board....funny, I thought it had
>turned into a freakin' politics/economy and religion board!!
>
Getting pretty pissy for a person who hasn't posted anything
step-parenting related, aren't you Angie?
Anne
Anne Robotti
>Help him make a call.. or even ask him to make her a card then send it to
>her.
>
Excuse me, wouldn't this be the kid's *father's* job? Why in the world
would this fall to Lori?
Anne
Angie Reynolds
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:a5ja309ppu5mfhsel...@4ax.com...
<boggles>
I haven't posted anything step-parenting related? Sure, I have, tons of
times. Not lately, though, true.....your point?
Angie
>
> Anne
kitty
What's wrong with trying to be supportive of your SK's relationship with
their bio-parent?
you don't need to tell the kid their Bio-parent sucks.. they will find out
eventually.
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:46ja309akpr4jt09q...@4ax.com...
Angie Reynolds
> news:a5ja309ppu5mfhsel...@4ax.com...
> > On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 16:08:23 -0600, "Angie Reynolds"
> > <j3...@sat-co.net> wrote:
> >
> > >Oh my god....this IS still a step parenting board....funny, I thought
it
> had
> > >turned into a freakin' politics/economy and religion board!!
> > >
> >
> > Getting pretty pissy for a person who hasn't posted anything
> > step-parenting related, aren't you Angie?
>
Besides, this was meant to be sarcastic/humorous, which totally escaped you.
Nevermind, I dunno who pissed in your Cheerios this morning. It's so
"wonderful" to be back. NOT!!! (Now, THAT'S pissy)
Angie
Geri and sometimes Brian
>What's wrong with trying to be supportive of your SK's relationship with
>their bio-parent?
>you don't need to tell the kid their Bio-parent sucks.. they will find out
>eventually.
Nothing wrong with it, but not her responsibility. If she wants to out of the
goodness of her heart that is one thing, but obligated to? No way!
~~Geri~~
http://www.noblankchecks.com/
"The song "Omaha" by Counting Crows has nothing to do with the city. If you
need to talk about music, hum the Husker fight song and eat your steak."
--Nebraska Tourism Bureau
Lori
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10771769...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
You know, pretty much every contact *has* been initiated by us. We do feel
she bears at least *some* responsibility for maintaining a relationship with
her own child, and that we should not have to be the only ones footing the
long distance phone calls. She knows that she can call *anytime*, she can
come *anytime*, we are even willing to change our own schedule at the last
minute, and we have, she can certainly write, and anytime she wants him
there, we'll work it out. But really, she needs to be responsible for some
of this.
Lori
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Lori
"Kerri Clair" <kerri...@aol.comma> wrote in message
news:20040219044708...@mb-m03.aol.com...
That's pretty much what I did say, that i don't know.
Then offer to help him
> contact her if that's what he would like.
Which we will, if he wants, but I'm getting the feeling that he wants *her*
to contact *him* this time, you know?
Lori
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Lori
> On Thu, 19 Feb 2004 22:04:39 GMT, "kitty" <pu...@meeooo.com> wrote:
>
> >Help him make a call.. or even ask him to make her a card then send it to
> >her.
> >
> Excuse me, wouldn't this be the kid's *father's* job? Why in the world
> would this fall to Lori?
Well, to be fair, I am the person he is with the most, and I homeschool him,
so it would be natural that he'd ask me.
Lori
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Lori
Lori
"Angie Reynolds" <j3...@sat-co.net> wrote in message
news:qtaZb.3$hw3.8...@typhoon.cei.net...
Version: 6.0.592 / Virus Database: 375 - Release Date: 2/18/04
Angie Reynolds
> Nah, that's just the fun side conversation stuff! :-)
> Lori
Hehehe...I guess so. I just had come back from not reading the newsgroup in
about a month (my three month old was in the hospital and we were in Little
Rock for 2 1/2 weeks) and when I came back and downloaded all my posts, most
of the threads were about politics and religion. I guess I avoid those
subjects because too many people disagree about the various subjects and
have different opinions, which they are entitled to, of course, but I don't
want to waste my time defending my views if they disagree. I guess I'm one
of those people who like to try and stay away from arguments. I just like to
go with the flow, ya know? Fun for you, I guess, but I'll just politely stay
out of those threads and stick to the step parenting threads! :-D
Angie
jane
>"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
>news:FegZb.808$dU3...@fe01.usenetserver.com...
>> Nah, that's just the fun side conversation stuff! :-)
>> Lori
>
>Hehehe...I guess so. I just had come back from not reading the newsgroup in
>about a month (my three month old was in the hospital and we were in Little
>Rock for 2 1/2 weeks) and when I came back and downloaded all my posts, most
>of the threads were about politics and religion.
You need a better newreader. If you can't just kill entire threads when you've
been out of the loop, you'll never get back in.
I understand your frustration. Lately, we're all over the board within the same
thread. I've been enjoying it, though, so I'm not a subthread nazi.
jane
ni...@impactwp.com
>
> >Help him make a call.. or even ask him to make her a card then send it to
> >her.
> >
> Excuse me, wouldn't this be the kid's *father's* job? Why in the world
> would this fall to Lori?
>
> Anne
What are you, new?
Nikki
ni...@impactwp.com
Yeah, yeah. What do you want? Me to agree with you that she's a good for
nothing? Totally, you've got me there. She's a useless mother, she's doing
untold damage to SS, blah, blah, blah.
I've been there remember? Out of the now very nearly 8 years that SS has
been with us his mother didn't see him for a total of about 3 and a half
years in bits and pieces.
However, I still think this is all irrelevant and you could help. Not for
her, for SS. Help him write her a letter or card. Or call her when he's not
around and arrange her to call later when he is. I personally wouldn't let
my SS lose contact with his mother ever again even if it meant I had to do
all of the calling, driving, and heck even if I had the facilitate the
conversation between them.
I think the only place here where you're not totally in your own stuff
(sorry, but as I said, I recognise where you're at I could have written this
post of yours a few years ago) is where you say your SS would like to see
her making some of the effort for a change. That is true, I know again from
here it was upsetting to my SS that his mother seemed to leave it all up to
us and her boyfriend instead of making her own efforts. However, neither did
I ever ring her and arrange it any other way so I take my own responsibility
for that these days.
Nikki
ni...@impactwp.com
I would imagine Anne was probably kidding. But then she has so many dogs and
kids maybe somebody did piss in her Cornflakes yesterday morning. Who knows?
Nikki
Geri and sometimes Brian
>kids maybe somebody did piss in her Cornflakes yesterday morning. Who knows?
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!
heather m.
rebecca
>
> >Help him make a call.. or even ask him to make her a card then send it to
> >her.
> >
> Excuse me, wouldn't this be the kid's *father's* job? Why in the world
> would this fall to Lori?
>
> Anne
Anne, Anne, Anne. What are you, new? Oh, I get it, it's one of those
rhetorical questions, right?
rebecca
rebecca
>
> Nikki
Oh, crap. You beat me, I just noticed you had already said it.
rebecca
Lori
LOL!
Lori
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Lori
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10772672...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
Well, my husband and I discussed this tonight (after the kids were asleep),
and since we've heard nothing from her at all, we're going to call tomorrow
night (after the kids are asleep, just in case) and invite her and his half
sister to come here this coming Tues. for his birthday supper. Earlier
today he asked if we could invite them, which I'm all for doing. He will be
seven on Wednesday, but Wednesday he has Masters Club at church and he wants
to go because he wants to bring a treat to share for his birthday, and asked
me to make brownies for him. :-) Plus, his dad's day off this week is
Tuesday, and he works the afternoon shift. This way dad is here for
birthday supper, too. You know, the whole reason we have made virtually all
of the contacts *is* for SS. We want what's best for him. But it sure is
hard to see his mom make virtually no effort to keep in contact. :-(
ni...@impactwp.com
snipHowever, neither
> did
> > I ever ring her and arrange it any other way so I take my own
> responsibility
> > for that these days.
> >
>
>
> Well, my husband and I discussed this tonight (after the kids were
asleep),
> and since we've heard nothing from her at all, we're going to call
tomorrow
> night (after the kids are asleep, just in case) and invite her and his
half
> sister to come here this coming Tues. for his birthday supper.
Well done and good for you.
Earlier
> today he asked if we could invite them, which I'm all for doing. He will
be
> seven on Wednesday, but Wednesday he has Masters Club at church and he
wants
> to go because he wants to bring a treat to share for his birthday, and
asked
> me to make brownies for him. :-) Plus, his dad's day off this week is
> Tuesday, and he works the afternoon shift. This way dad is here for
> birthday supper, too.
Sounds like a great time planned, BM coming or not. For your SS's sake I
hope she does.
You know, the whole reason we have made virtually all
> of the contacts *is* for SS.
Yes, I know that.
We want what's best for him. But it sure is
> hard to see his mom make virtually no effort to keep in contact. :-(
It is, particularly when YOU are the one dealing with all of the fallout
when he does see her, or dealing with it when she doesn't see him. You spend
all of your time trying to increase his self esteem and make him feel loved
and sometimes - boom - along comes Mommy to screw up all of your hard work.
Hugs, I know it's tough. I think 'taking the high road' and doing the right
thing can always be hard in the implementation but afterwards, there is a
satisfaction to be had in doing that. Good for you.
Nikki
The Watsons
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10772672...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
> However, I still think this is all irrelevant and you could help. Not for
> her, for SS. Help him write her a letter or card. Or call her when he's
not
> around and arrange her to call later when he is. I personally wouldn't let
> my SS lose contact with his mother ever again even if it meant I had to do
> all of the calling, driving, and heck even if I had the facilitate the
> conversation between them.
ya know, that's great for when they're younger, and it's a wonderful way to
be supportive and loving and all that....
but then the kid runs the possibility of being like me-the first time i
heard from my father in the year after tim died was him calling me, telling
me he was on his way over with a coffeetable....he brought a new coffeetable
over hoping he could talk me into taking my sister's cat because his new gf
of the week (geez, that was bitchy, i need more coffee) is allergic to
cats...
the next time i heard from my father was months later, two days before my
sister got married-and he wanted help talking her outta it....notice the
trend?
so for all my dad's second gf's machinations and efforts to keep him and i
in touch while they were together, it just didn't work...
Jess
heather m.
>
> Well, my husband and I discussed this tonight (after the kids were
asleep),
> and since we've heard nothing from her at all, we're going to call
tomorrow
> night (after the kids are asleep, just in case) and invite her and his
half
> sister to come here this coming Tues. for his birthday supper. Earlier
> today he asked if we could invite them, which I'm all for doing. He will
be
> seven on Wednesday, but Wednesday he has Masters Club at church and he
wants
> to go because he wants to bring a treat to share for his birthday, and
asked
> me to make brownies for him. :-) Plus, his dad's day off this week is
> Tuesday, and he works the afternoon shift. This way dad is here for
> birthday supper, too. You know, the whole reason we have made virtually
all
> of the contacts *is* for SS. We want what's best for him. But it sure is
> hard to see his mom make virtually no effort to keep in contact. :-(
> Lori
>
Yay Lori!! Your SS is very lucky to have a step-mom like you!
Heather
Amy Lou
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:BYKZb.7822$CQ6.366@fed1read05...
>
> so for all my dad's second gf's machinations and efforts to keep him and i
> in touch while they were together, it just didn't work...
So are you saying its better if the kid accepts Mom the way she is now? Sort
of why prolong the agony, eh?
On the other hand maybe Mom needs to be guided in the amount of contact they
have? My ex for eg feels strongly about taking turns initiating phone calls.
He refuses to call our son if our son didn't call him the last time. I
believe that part of his reasons for this is the cost involved, but also he
needs validation that our son *wants* to talk to him.
Amy
Lori
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10773620...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:GcBZb.1080$c33...@fe01.usenetserver.com...
> snipHowever, neither
> > did
> > > I ever ring her and arrange it any other way so I take my own
> > responsibility
> > > for that these days.
> > >
> >
> >
> > Well, my husband and I discussed this tonight (after the kids were
> asleep),
> > and since we've heard nothing from her at all, we're going to call
> tomorrow
> > night (after the kids are asleep, just in case) and invite her and his
> half
> > sister to come here this coming Tues. for his birthday supper.
>
> Well done and good for you.
Called her a bit ober an hour ago. 41 minutes on our dime, to hear that she
and her daughter have plans for Wed. night, or maybe it was Tues., to go to
see Cats with her mom, she'll have to check and get back to us tomorrow.
And then there's the cost of gas, and whether her car will hold out, etc.,
etc., etc. Either way, though, she did say she would at least call him
Tues. night to say happy birthday.
> Earlier
> > today he asked if we could invite them, which I'm all for doing. He
will
> be
> > seven on Wednesday, but Wednesday he has Masters Club at church and he
> wants
> > to go because he wants to bring a treat to share for his birthday, and
> asked
> > me to make brownies for him. :-) Plus, his dad's day off this week is
> > Tuesday, and he works the afternoon shift. This way dad is here for
> > birthday supper, too.
>
> Sounds like a great time planned, BM coming or not. For your SS's sake I
> hope she does.
I really doubt they'll be here. But, at least we did what was right, and
made sure not to do it when he could hear. That's the other reason i think
they won't be here, even his mom said she'd email to let us know, so that if
they aren't coming, he won't know the possibility was there.
> You know, the whole reason we have made virtually all
> > of the contacts *is* for SS.
>
> Yes, I know that.
Even when there was the horrible animosity there, it was still important to
us to do what was right for *all* of our kids. You know, when my mother
died, SS wanted badly to come to her memorial, but he wanted his mom with
him, so i told DH to tell her she was more than welcome. that was for SS.
My mantra that day became "it's a few hours out of your life", because she
did come, filthy, smelling bad, the whole nine yards. But it made it easier
for SS to be there to say goodbye to grandma, and that was all that really
mattered.
> We want what's best for him. But it sure is
> > hard to see his mom make virtually no effort to keep in contact. :-(
>
> It is, particularly when YOU are the one dealing with all of the fallout
> when he does see her, or dealing with it when she doesn't see him. You
spend
> all of your time trying to increase his self esteem and make him feel
loved
> and sometimes - boom - along comes Mommy to screw up all of your hard
work.
Exactly! You mean we aren't the only ones with this issue?! LOL (I know we
aren't). When he knows she's coming, he's horrible for the few days before
her visit, and even worse for a few days after. then it's like he feels
safe again knowing that even when he's naughty, our first choice isn't to
scream at him, and calms down again. :-(
> Hugs, I know it's tough. I think 'taking the high road' and doing the
right
> thing can always be hard in the implementation but afterwards, there is a
> satisfaction to be had in doing that. Good for you.
>
Thanks. The very best reward, though, is things like when SS came up to me
today, gave me a hug, asked to sit with me in my chair, and told me "You're
the best Lori in the whole wide world!". That's when you know that what
you're doing matters. :-)
Lori
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Lori
It really doesn't. I know that DH barely had a relationship with his
immediate family (except for his older brother, they have a great
relationship) before we married, and only because I did all the work of
keeping them in contact for as long as I did, was there anything after that.
When I found out how his mother and his younger brother really felt about
me, I stopped pushing him to contact them, I stopped doing all the work of
making him be in a relationship with them, and of course, most of the family
and friends (again, except for his older brother, who knows how they are)
have been convinced that I alienated him from his family. In the end, it
doesn't matter which way you go, you can't win. Either you stop doing it
and get blamed for the lack, or you do it, and the person you're doing it
for comes to realize that the only reason the person (or people) are even in
their life is because you guilted them into it. Nobody likes knowing that
someone they love only shows interest out of being guilted or pushed into
it.
Lori
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Lori
"heather m." <heath...@nunya.com> wrote in message
news:WyPZb.3949$aT1....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Well, there was a time I wouldn't have believed I'd ever say this, but I'm
lucky to have him. I look at it this way, now I have two little boys who
love and need me.
Lori
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rebecca
> You know, when my mother
> died, SS wanted badly to come to her memorial, but he wanted his mom with
> him, so i told DH to tell her she was more than welcome. that was for SS.
Oh my, Lori, that is an amazing thing to read. I have nightmares that SS's
dad will someday die, and I will have to decide whether or not BM will be
permitted to come. Knowing that she won't allow SS to come without her.
Knowing that I suck as a person for not being able to think about letting
her come on such a horrible day.
Ug.
rebecca
Lori
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LcWZb.3297$yZ1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
You love your SS, though, so I'm betting that when it came down to it, you'd
also do what was necessary to enable him to say goodbye.
The Watsons
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LcWZb.3297$yZ1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
SS's
> dad will someday die, and I will have to decide whether or not BM will be
> permitted to come. Knowing that she won't allow SS to come without her.
> Knowing that I suck as a person for not being able to think about letting
> her come on such a horrible day.
then we'll suck as people together-it wasn't my original thought to invite
sunshine's BM to tim's, either...
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>her come on such a horrible day.
I don't think so. Brian has already made it extremely clear that if something
would happen to him, BM is not welcome at his funeral, even if it means that SD
can't/won't come. I will abide by his wishes on that.
ni...@impactwp.com
snip
> Called her a bit ober an hour ago. 41 minutes on our dime, to hear that
she
> and her daughter have plans for Wed. night, or maybe it was Tues., to go
to
> see Cats with her mom, she'll have to check and get back to us tomorrow.
> And then there's the cost of gas, and whether her car will hold out, etc.,
> etc., etc. Either way, though, she did say she would at least call him
> Tues. night to say happy birthday.
Gosh this is hard isn't it? My first reaction is 'why would you book to go
for a special night out when you know it's your son's birthday?' but perhaps
that's why she is having a special night out - I'm fairly sure I can
understand her wanting to ignore his birthday as it's painful. I don't get
how it makes her behave but she has to have some logical reason. Forgive me,
I'm trying hard to stay in 'able to view it positively' as I spent too many
years in 'finding a way to view BM badly' to be able to go back there again.
It is weird though. Maybe if she'd known earlier she might have been able to
make it. At least the poor child will get a call.
>
> >
> > Sounds like a great time planned, BM coming or not. For your SS's sake I
> > hope she does.
>
> I really doubt they'll be here. But, at least we did what was right, and
> made sure not to do it when he could hear. That's the other reason i
think
> they won't be here, even his mom said she'd email to let us know, so that
if
> they aren't coming, he won't know the possibility was there.
I don't know what's worse. Your Mom nearly got here or she couldn't make it
at all.
>
>
> > You know, the whole reason we have made virtually all
> > > of the contacts *is* for SS.
> >
> > Yes, I know that.
>
> Even when there was the horrible animosity there, it was still important
to
> us to do what was right for *all* of our kids. You know, when my mother
> died, SS wanted badly to come to her memorial, but he wanted his mom with
> him, so i told DH to tell her she was more than welcome. that was for SS.
> My mantra that day became "it's a few hours out of your life", because she
> did come, filthy, smelling bad, the whole nine yards. But it made it
easier
> for SS to be there to say goodbye to grandma, and that was all that really
> mattered.
I admire you.
>
>
> > We want what's best for him. But it sure is
> > > hard to see his mom make virtually no effort to keep in contact. :-(
> >
> > It is, particularly when YOU are the one dealing with all of the fallout
> > when he does see her, or dealing with it when she doesn't see him. You
> spend
> > all of your time trying to increase his self esteem and make him feel
> loved
> > and sometimes - boom - along comes Mommy to screw up all of your hard
> work.
>
> Exactly! You mean we aren't the only ones with this issue?! LOL (I know
we
> aren't). When he knows she's coming, he's horrible for the few days
before
> her visit, and even worse for a few days after. then it's like he feels
> safe again knowing that even when he's naughty, our first choice isn't to
> scream at him, and calms down again. :-(
If my SS saw his mother it would mean a week build up and two weeks coming
down the other side. It was a living nightmare. Which is why, when she
wasn't around, and he was generally calm the whole time, it was easier to
believe that would be better for him in the long run. But he was slowly
dying inside, thinking she didn't want him. And I'm sure part of his fear of
disruption was my reaction and his father's reaction to what was happening.
Ugh. That's the part I hate admitting. I do relate to what you go through.
> > Hugs, I know it's tough. I think 'taking the high road' and doing the
> right
> > thing can always be hard in the implementation but afterwards, there is
a
> > satisfaction to be had in doing that. Good for you.
> >
>
> Thanks. The very best reward, though, is things like when SS came up to
me
> today, gave me a hug, asked to sit with me in my chair, and told me
"You're
> the best Lori in the whole wide world!". That's when you know that what
> you're doing matters. :-)
Ahh, that's sweet - and you're right, that's the real reward. Once SS came
to me when he was about 8 and said 'thank you Nikki' just out of the blue. I
said 'what for?' and he said 'oh, just for everything'. That makes me fill
up! Of course he's 14 now and not nearly as sweet :-)
Nikki
ni...@impactwp.com
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:LcWZb.3297$yZ1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
I would imagine that your wishes that SS get to say goodbye to his father
would override your initial urges. Fingers crossed when it happens SS will
be an adult and you won't even have to think about this.
I'd want BM1 there for SS if my DH passed away so I didn't have to deal with
it. I'd probably also invite BM2, again so she could deal with her own child
and I, for once, could simply concentrate on my own biological child. How
nice that would be!
And if I can invite BM2 to my DH's wedding when she's going to get very
drunk and probably show people her stretchmarks or talk about what a bastard
Roger was, or something else *totally* inappropriate, then you have to
invite 'your' BM. We can have 'who had the worst funeral experience'
competitions.
Nikki
Anne Robotti
wrote:
Rebecca, I'm short on time, so this isn't going to be warm and fuzzy.
Fuck that shit. I'm planning armed guards to keep BM out of any family
funeral or other event EVER for my family *or* Chuck's, and I don't
feel one bit guilty. Lori's just a better person than me, I guess.
We've had this discussion on hte newsgroup before, I know I'm in the
minority, but if SD came and asked if her Mom could come to Chuck's
funeral I'd say, "Are you out of your fucking mind?" Not that I think
she *would* but I'm just saying.
Anne
The Watsons
"Amy Lou" <amyl...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
news:y6VZb.70444$Wa.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> So are you saying its better if the kid accepts Mom the way she is now?
Sort
> of why prolong the agony, eh?
might be better if he learns to accept her and relate to her the way she is
now, instead of everyone encouraging the contact and keeping the contact
going....because everyone else doing it means that it's everyone else's
relationship and everyone else's work keeping it going, and all she has to
do is come along for the ride...
> On the other hand maybe Mom needs to be guided in the amount of contact
they
> have? My ex for eg feels strongly about taking turns initiating phone
calls.
> He refuses to call our son if our son didn't call him the last time. I
> believe that part of his reasons for this is the cost involved, but also
he
> needs validation that our son *wants* to talk to him.
*nods* to an extent, and from this side of the coffeepot, it's the same with
me...i've forgiven my father for what he's done, and i can accept that this
is how he is...but at the same time, when he calls, one of my first
questions is typically "now what?", because it's very unusual that he calls
and doesn't want something...his second gf kept pushing at me and nagging at
me to call him, write him, whatever because "he's your father and life is
too short"-but if he was that interested, he should've been making some of
the effort too....picking up a fifty cent postcard at the store and jotting
out a quick note doesn't take that much effort; forwarding a cutesy lil'
email joke or a quick phone call of an afternoon takes slightly more effort,
but it all shows An effort....
does this make sense?
Jess
The Watsons
> Called her a bit ober an hour ago. 41 minutes on our dime, to hear that
she
> and her daughter have plans for Wed. night, or maybe it was Tues., to go
to
> see Cats with her mom, she'll have to check and get back to us tomorrow.
> And then there's the cost of gas, and whether her car will hold out, etc.,
> etc., etc. Either way, though, she did say she would at least call him
> Tues. night to say happy birthday.
something's better than nothing, i s'pose...:)
> I really doubt they'll be here. But, at least we did what was right, and
> made sure not to do it when he could hear. That's the other reason i
think
> they won't be here, even his mom said she'd email to let us know, so that
if
> they aren't coming, he won't know the possibility was there.
that's good, at least....:)
> Even when there was the horrible animosity there, it was still important
to
> us to do what was right for *all* of our kids. You know, when my mother
> died, SS wanted badly to come to her memorial, but he wanted his mom with
> him, so i told DH to tell her she was more than welcome. that was for SS.
> My mantra that day became "it's a few hours out of your life", because she
> did come, filthy, smelling bad, the whole nine yards. But it made it
easier
> for SS to be there to say goodbye to grandma, and that was all that really
> mattered.
*nods*
> Exactly! You mean we aren't the only ones with this issue?! LOL (I know
we
> aren't). When he knows she's coming, he's horrible for the few days
before
> her visit, and even worse for a few days after. then it's like he feels
> safe again knowing that even when he's naughty, our first choice isn't to
> scream at him, and calms down again. :-(
*snerks* taking her back to Tucson was always a battle, so i'd say no, you
ain't alone...:)
> Thanks. The very best reward, though, is things like when SS came up to
me
> today, gave me a hug, asked to sit with me in my chair, and told me
"You're
> the best Lori in the whole wide world!". That's when you know that what
> you're doing matters. :-)
yup...:D
Jess
_calinda_
the sake of the children>
I'm thinking as a BM, not a SP as to how I'd handle it, if my ex
died. I *know* my ex's "wife from hell" wouldn't want me there.
And I *know* I wouldn't want to BE there.
However, he is my children's father and since MH can't stand the
kids, she won't "Be There" for them, and someone would need to. If
they asked me to go to the service and to be supportive of them, I
would and I don't think I'd care one way or the other what she
thought of that.
That a child would be required to ask permission seems wrong to me
anyway. The parent isn't the only one grieving over the death and a
child should be allowed to have the support they need to grieve as
well. I guess I don't see why a child's needs are less important
than the adult in this type of thing, which is what it appears to me
what is being said in this thread.
I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
away.
Cal~
Geri and sometimes Brian
>would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
>go by my children.
Of course, I don't have a nice BM involved like you, just to preface. But, my
first choice, if possible, would be to have the proceedings take place without
BM's knowledge. Tough to pull that off though. The way I look at it, it
would be the last thing I could do for my husband, who is beyond emphatic that
BM would not be there, no matter what. Therefore, I would, like Anne, have
security there to prevent her from ever entering the building.
Anne Robotti
<calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>However, he is my children's father and since MH can't stand the
>kids, she won't "Be There" for them, and someone would need to. If
>they asked me to go to the service and to be supportive of them, I
>would and I don't think I'd care one way or the other what she
>thought of that.
Yup, and there you have the double standard. Me too. Of course, I
wouldn't have spent hte past 18 years being a vicious and spiteful
bitch, making my ex and his whole new family miserable, they'd all
love me so there'd be no reason for the armed guards. But stuff like
this is the reason I stay married to Chuck.
>
>That a child would be required to ask permission seems wrong to me
>anyway. The parent isn't the only one grieving over the death and a
>child should be allowed to have the support they need to grieve as
>well. I guess I don't see why a child's needs are less important
>than the adult in this type of thing, which is what it appears to me
>what is being said in this thread.
I'm factoring the needs of one (two, three) stepkids against the
entire rest of the family. Me, my children, DH's family, etc,
everybody else in the free world who knows how BM treated DH and would
be very upset to see her at his funeral. My MIL would have a heart
attack and die, right on the spot. And I'm sorry, but there's no way
that I'd put his entire family, not to mention mine, through that.
There would be plenty of people there for SD.
>
>I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
>would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
>go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
>away.
Yeah, again, me too. It's why I stay marreid.
Anne
_calinda_
>> I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children.
>
Agreed.. but believe me.. it's definitely something I've thought of
a time or two. They both drink quite a bit, then think nothing of
getting behind the wheel.
> I guess, Cal, I have one thought about what you said. The child
> should be allowed the support they need to grieve. I just don't
> think BM gets to solely define that support.
I think the antagonistic way that their SM has been towards these
two kids, that she would never have their interests at heart. I
guess it will depend on the circumstances, but I think the death of
a parent trumps anything else. As much as I hate to say this, but
if something happened to me, I would *expect* him to be there for
his children.
> Of _course_ she's going
> to think the child needs her. And maybe she would be right. But
> maybe she wouldn't. SS has no experience in his memory of them
> together, all his experiences with his father are with me.
In which case, I think you're right.. I guess considering how much
their SM dislikes my two kids plays a factor in my reasoning. Our
kids do have a history, and they don't have any type of supportive
relationship with their SM. Every piece of contact they have with
her is a negative one.
> God willing, I won't face this during SS's childhood.
Call me evil, but I'm not sure I could say that and truly feel I
mean it.
Cal~
>
> rebecca
Vicki Robinson
>I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
>would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
>go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
>away.
And if you were there, you'd be respectful of his widow's position,
his family's feelings, and you'd treat the occasion as it should be
treated. Your ex's wife might not want you there, but she'd never
have to worry about you making a scene.
Some of the stepmoms here would have to worry about the biomom not
being there for her kids, but being there to take the opportunity to
tell everyone how wronged she was and what a bastard the deceased was.
There's no one-size-fits-all here.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
kitty
funeral in DH's family and I don't expect to go to her parent's funeral. As
much as she thinks his family likes her, they cannot stand her. They are
nice for the kids' sake.
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:k1ch3052esa9fdet0...@4ax.com...
_calinda_
>> I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
>> would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked
to
>> go by my children.
>
> Of course, I don't have a nice BM involved like you, just to
preface.
Thanks you :-)
*However* My ex and his wife think I am evil incarnate. They still
maintain to both of the children that I am a horrible person, (the
term 'money sucking whore' has been flung around attached to my
name) and that I am the worst ex wife and mother on the planet. He
sent our daughter a 7k email detailing everything that is wrong with
me. He's sent a letter to my lawyer complaining of my calling him
and harassing him, even though the only calls I made were in regards
to our children, and in the close to four years total less than
10. But I harass him!
I am not kidding nor exaggerating when I tell you he complains to
everyone about what an awful ex he has. He's so clueless as to what
an evil ex wife is. The fact that I have served him with papers
vindicates in his mind everything he's ever thought about me as
well. Of course, the fact that it's his actions and those of his
wife that have brought all that on, he'll never see. He is perfect
and I am evil as far as he's concerned.
> But, my first choice, if possible, would be to have the
proceedings
> take place without BM's knowledge. Tough to pull that off though.
> The way I look at it, it would be the last thing I could do for my
> husband, who is beyond emphatic that BM would not be there, no
matter
> what. Therefore, I would, like Anne, have security there to
prevent
> her from ever entering the building.
I understand where you're coming from. The difference I think is
that you have a wonderful relationship with your SD, and I believe
you would do what you could to help her through the proceedings as a
loving caring SP. My two don't have that kind of relationship at
all.
To be honest, she has no relationship with the ex's family as she's
also alienated them as well. I could actually see the potential for
his family to have a private memorial service for him w/o her at a
later time and to pass on the funeral altogether.
Cal~
Vicki Robinson
>> God willing, I won't face this during SS's childhood.
>
>Call me evil, but I'm not sure I could say that and truly feel I
>mean it.
There was a poster on this group years ago named nancyg. The biomom
of her SO's kids was murdered. The effects on the children were
devastating. She said that in all the times she'd thought that they'd
all be better off if the biomom were dead, she hadn't in a hundred
years realized what the effect on her children would be.
I remember that every time my ex drives me up a wall. My children
would be heartbroken if their father died. Whatever his sins are,
he's still their dad. I try to remember that.
But for myself? I truly don't know how I'd feel. At one time he was
the absolute love of my life.
Vicki Robinson
>As morbid as this thread is.. I wouldn't want BM to come to anyone's
>funeral in DH's family and I don't expect to go to her parent's funeral. As
>much as she thinks his family likes her, they cannot stand her. They are
>nice for the kids' sake.
No reason you should go to the funeral of one of her family members,
but if *she* died, would you expect DH to go, to be with his kids?
_calinda_
> On Sun, 22 Feb 2004 20:44:01 GMT, "_calinda_>
>
>> kids, she won't "Be There" for them, and someone would need to.
If
>> they asked me to go to the service and to be supportive of them,
I
>> would and I don't think I'd care one way or the other what she
>> thought of that.
>
> Yup, and there you have the double standard. Me too. Of course, I
> wouldn't have spent hte past 18 years being a vicious and spiteful
> bitch, making my ex and his whole new family miserable, they'd all
> love me so there'd be no reason for the armed guards.
Well, if it came down to what his family would want, she'd lose
hands down. I know that for a fact. I would be infinitely more
welcome at any service for anyone in that family before she would
be. She has worked very hard to alienate every single of them, from
his parents, siblings and their spouses; even the nieces & nephews
don't like her.
If and when anyone in his family passes away, I will absolutely
attend. I would stay down in back and I would stay far away from
either my ex and his wife, and I would leave after the service, but
I would absolutely attend, again barring armed guards.
>But stuff like
> this is the reason I stay married to Chuck.
Sorry Anne- I'm not sure what you mean here?
>> That a child would be required to ask permission seems wrong to
me
>> anyway. The parent isn't the only one grieving over the death
and a
>> child should be allowed to have the support they need to grieve
as
>> well. I guess I don't see why a child's needs are less important
>> than the adult in this type of thing, which is what it appears to
me
>> what is being said in this thread.
>
> I'm factoring the needs of one (two, three) stepkids against the
> entire rest of the family. Me, my children, DH's family, etc,
> everybody else in the free world who knows how BM treated DH and
would
> be very upset to see her at his funeral. My MIL would have a heart
> attack and die, right on the spot. And I'm sorry, but there's no
way
> that I'd put his entire family, not to mention mine, through that.
> There would be plenty of people there for SD.
So, if she wanted her other parent there, she'd be told no. I can
say I understand the reasoning, but my heart says that's just wrong.
The adults in the situation should just *suck it up* for the sake of
that child/ren. There are times when the child's needs do not come
first-absolutely. I think the death of their parent is one time
that their needs DO come first. That is what my heart tells me.
>> I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
>> would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked
to
>> go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
>> away.
>
> Yeah, again, me too. It's why I stay marreid.
Again, I guess I'm dense today.. Are you saying you stay married so
you don't have to worry about escorting your children to their
father's funeral?
Cal~
>
> Anne
Melissa
>being there for her kids, but being there to take the opportunity to
>tell everyone how wronged she was and what a bastard the deceased was.
>
>There's no one-size-fits-all here.
>
>Vicki
I could pretty much count on SS's mother makign a scene. Thankfully I could
also pretty much count on everyone else there knowing what will happen, and
ignoring her.
That said now that he's getting older I don't think SS would want his mother
anywhere near his father's funeral so it's less of a concern for me.
Love,
Melissa
"The old Tom didn't poison your fish either!"
-Carson Kressley, from Queer Eye
rebecca
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comspamzap> wrote in message
news:20040222191758...@mb-m10.aol.com...
>
> That said now that he's getting older I don't think SS would want his
mother
> anywhere near his father's funeral so it's less of a concern for me.
I've got a good friend who refused to tell his mother where his father's
funeral was taking place, because he knew she'd go and disturb the people
who were actually mourning. Wow, was his mom pissed at him.
rebecca
_calinda_
> If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
>> away.
>
> And if you were there, you'd be respectful of his widow's
position,
> his family's feelings, and you'd treat the occasion as it should
be
> treated. Your ex's wife might not want you there, but she'd never
> have to worry about you making a scene.
Here's the thing. I can tell you with 100% accuracy that if asked,
she would say she does think I would make a scene. I have seen the
emails she sends to my children. I know what her thoughts on me are.
> Some of the stepmoms here would have to worry about the biomom not
> being there for her kids, but being there to take the opportunity
to
> tell everyone how wronged she was and what a bastard the deceased
was.
>
> There's no one-size-fits-all here.
I know that to be accurate as well. If the child would have a SP
like Geri (oh gosh how I *wish* that were so!), then I would
certainly stay away. The thing is, if they had a SM like Geri, then
I know if my kids wanted me there I would be welcome, as she'd know
I would be respectful of the boundaries that comes with being the
*EX* wife.
I understand that isn't the case with some people. I also know that
my ex is so delusional that he's not aware of how lucky he is to
have me as an ex :-P
Cal~
>
> Vicki
Melissa
>position,
>> his family's feelings, and you'd treat the occasion as it should
>be
>> treated. Your ex's wife might not want you there, but she'd never
>> have to worry about you making a scene.
>
>Here's the thing. I can tell you with 100% accuracy that if asked,
>she would say she does think I would make a scene. I have seen the
>emails she sends to my children. I know what her thoughts on me are.
>
That's a really good point.
_calinda_
> In a previous article, "_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com>
said:
>
>>> God willing, I won't face this during SS's childhood.
>>
>> Call me evil, but I'm not sure I could say that and truly feel I
>> mean it.
>
> There was a poster on this group years ago named nancyg. The
biomom
> of her SO's kids was murdered. The effects on the children were
> devastating. She said that in all the times she'd thought that
they'd
> all be better off if the biomom were dead, she hadn't in a hundred
> years realized what the effect on her children would be.
>
> I remember that every time my ex drives me up a wall. My children
> would be heartbroken if their father died. Whatever his sins are,
> he's still their dad. I try to remember that.
Yes, I know that in truth it would be worse for them. What I truly
wish is that he would wake up one day and have some sort of epiphany
of what it is he's doing to the kids. I had a friend whose husband
had 'gone off the deep end' so to speak, much like my ex did. His
whole personality changed- much like my ex has, and he decided he
wasn't happy and wanted a divorce. She was completely taken by
surprise of his behavior.
Then one day the cops found him wandering down the middle of the
street naked and completely disorientated. They took him for a
complete physical and was going to put him in a psychiatric ward for
observation, but during the physical he was found to have a brain
tumor. I don't recall the type but the doctors did say that the
type he had definitely affected his personality which would explain
the complete change in him. He had surgery and chemo.
Today he is back to normal and considered healthy. And his marriage
is better than ever last I heard. I sometimes wish that my ex could
be 'cured' of whatever it was that caused him to change to the
person he is now.
> But for myself? I truly don't know how I'd feel. At one time he
was
> the absolute love of my life.
You know, I once thought that as well. Now that I have such a
different relationship with my SO, one that is based on love and
friendship to begin with, but much deeper than just that. He treats
me how I would want a man to treat my daughter. He is definitely the
kind of man I hope my son would emulate.
Cal~
>
> Vicki
badgirl
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message >
> I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
> would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
> go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
> away.
> Cal~
>
>
but there is a HUGE difference between a BM who wants to go and be
supportive in that situation etc etc and a BM who doesn't give a
flying shit and so shows up filthy and nasty (mentioned earlier in the
thread) having no respect for the grief of others OR her children by
blatantly showing it by showing up that way. If you truly want to
support your children in their grief in a situation like that then you
make an effort to dress and behave appropriately (general you not
specific you of course)
Jen
Geri and sometimes Brian
>funeral was taking place, because he knew she'd go and disturb the people
>who were actually mourning.
I have a feeling, as my SD gets older, that if something should happen to
Brian, she may well have the same attitude. She already prefers to keep her
parents apart.
The Watsons
> So, if she wanted her other parent there, she'd be told no. I can
> say I understand the reasoning, but my heart says that's just wrong.
> The adults in the situation should just *suck it up* for the sake of
> that child/ren. There are times when the child's needs do not come
> first-absolutely. I think the death of their parent is one time
> that their needs DO come first. That is what my heart tells me.
that's where i've been, and it was a hard place to get to...
> Again, I guess I'm dense today.. Are you saying you stay married so
> you don't have to worry about escorting your children to their
> father's funeral?
and on that note, i'm ducking out....that's enough for me for now...
Jess
Lori
<ni...@impactwp.com> wrote in message
news:10774380...@ananke.eclipse.net.uk...
>
> "Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:9xVZb.1903$c33....@fe01.usenetserver.com...
> snip
> > Called her a bit ober an hour ago. 41 minutes on our dime, to hear that
> she
> > and her daughter have plans for Wed. night, or maybe it was Tues., to go
> to
> > see Cats with her mom, she'll have to check and get back to us tomorrow.
> > And then there's the cost of gas, and whether her car will hold out,
etc.,
> > etc., etc. Either way, though, she did say she would at least call him
> > Tues. night to say happy birthday.
>
> Gosh this is hard isn't it? My first reaction is 'why would you book to go
> for a special night out when you know it's your son's birthday?' but
perhaps
> that's why she is having a special night out - I'm fairly sure I can
> understand her wanting to ignore his birthday as it's painful.
Thing is, we're doing his birthday dinner Tues., the night *before* his
birthday, because first, he attends a program Wed. nights that he doesn't
want to miss, and second, His dad will be working Wed. night, but off on
Tues. So it really wouldn't matter if she had something going on Wed.
night.
I don't get
> how it makes her behave but she has to have some logical reason. Forgive
me,
> I'm trying hard to stay in 'able to view it positively' as I spent too
many
> years in 'finding a way to view BM badly' to be able to go back there
again.
> It is weird though. Maybe if she'd known earlier she might have been able
to
> make it.
I doubt it. she's had plenty of notice on things before, made no
difference. This is the woman who *regularly* tells the child that she'll
see him in a couple weeks, and then doesn't call or show up at all.
At least the poor child will get a call.
Yep, and that's about it, too. Just got email from her saying they won't be
coming, things are just crazy at her house, and gas is too expensive. That
one irritates me - we live in a city which borders on canada and regularly
pay gouging prices, plus, even during our *worst* financial times, when she
was getting more of DH's pay than we were, and when we had car problems,
etc, we still did what we had to to get to see SS. Even when it meant
asking friends for help in transportation.
It didn't hurt me any, and he got to say goodbye to grandma. There was
plenty of my family there to help me, especially one of my favorite aunts
who really helped with the "it's only a couple hours out of my life"
attitude.
I hang on to the feeling that when all is said and done, years down the
road, at least he will know who was here for him.
Lori
Even if she were only five years old, and mom was the parent she was with
the most? that was the situation here. He lived with his mom, he was five.
But he wanted to be at his grandma's service. At least we were able to get
her to bring him to our motel room to spend the night the night before, and
then just come to the service so he could go home with her. that way *we*
were able to control whether or not he would be clean, let alone decently
dressed. She showed up for the service, and plopped herself down in the
front row next to me, which is when i did have a little trouble, but didn't
want to make a big deal of it. That's when my aunt reached up and gave me a
hug and reminded me it wouldn't be a large amount of time.
Lori
> <snipped discussion of BM's going to the funerals of their Ex's for
> the sake of the children>
>
> I'm thinking as a BM, not a SP as to how I'd handle it, if my ex
> died. I *know* my ex's "wife from hell" wouldn't want me there.
> And I *know* I wouldn't want to BE there.
>
And I was not thrilled at the idea of her being there for my mom's service.
> However, he is my children's father and since MH can't stand the
> kids, she won't "Be There" for them, and someone would need to. If
> they asked me to go to the service and to be supportive of them, I
> would and I don't think I'd care one way or the other what she
> thought of that.
I agree.
> That a child would be required to ask permission seems wrong to me
> anyway.
That's why I made sure he didn't *have* to ask. I just said if it was
easier for him to have her with him, I wanted that for *him*
The parent isn't the only one grieving over the death and a
> child should be allowed to have the support they need to grieve as
> well. I guess I don't see why a child's needs are less important
> than the adult in this type of thing, which is what it appears to me
> what is being said in this thread.
They aren't less important, IMO. In some ways, it may even be *more*
important that the child have the closure. I remember when we told the kids
my mom had died. We'd just seen her the weekend before, she was doing
great, and was trying on her new wigs she'd just gotten (chemo & radiation,
her hair was mostly gone by then). SS said (I doubt I'll ever forget this),
"but she *can't* die, she just got her new hair!"
>
> I would not be there for him, or her.. but for my children. She
> would need to have armed guards to keep me away, if I was asked to
> go by my children. If they didn't ask.. I would definitely stay
> away.
I agree.
Lori
"badgirl" <chgobadgi...@comcast.net> wrote in message
news:tfc_b.104739$uV3.586735@attbi_s51...
Well you know, that's what *I* thought, too! :-)
Lori
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c1bfli$p6$2...@allhats.xcski.com...
> In a previous article, "kitty" <pu...@meeooo.com> said:
>
> >As morbid as this thread is.. I wouldn't want BM to come to anyone's
> >funeral in DH's family and I don't expect to go to her parent's funeral.
As
> >much as she thinks his family likes her, they cannot stand her. They are
> >nice for the kids' sake.
>
> No reason you should go to the funeral of one of her family members,
> but if *she* died, would you expect DH to go, to be with his kids?
In our case, DH, our son, & I would all go with him, because it would be
important to him. We're his family, even more so now, with him living here
and BM all but removing herself from his life.
Lori
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:tS5_b.8725$CQ6.3977@fed1read05...
>
> "Amy Lou" <amyl...@bigpond.com> wrote in message
> news:y6VZb.70444$Wa.6...@news-server.bigpond.net.au...
> > So are you saying its better if the kid accepts Mom the way she is now?
> Sort
> > of why prolong the agony, eh?
>
> might be better if he learns to accept her and relate to her the way she
is
> now, instead of everyone encouraging the contact and keeping the contact
> going....because everyone else doing it means that it's everyone else's
> relationship and everyone else's work keeping it going, and all she has to
> do is come along for the ride...
Absolutely. BM is an adult, or so I've been led to believe. Frankly, I
believe strongly that for her, her children were purely a means to an end,
and when the desired end didn't happen, and then he aged out of every
program she benefitted from because of him, and then she ran up against
welfare time limits, he stopped being useful. It makes me wonder, if the
father of her other child had done what DH did and fight her for a
relationship with his child, and then refused to play her games and let her
control him, would she be ridding herself of her other child as well now?
Angie Reynolds
This is not really about you Anne, it's about your step daughter, and losing
a parent is very hard for a child. If she wants her mom there, she has every
right. She shouldn't have to ask for permission. Her mom was there before
you were. She needs her BM there with her to get through this. Her needs
come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
Angie
Melissa
>come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
>
>Angie
>
Whoah! Anne loses her husband, the father of her children and her needs don't
matter? I'm sorry but something's seriously wrong with that line of thinking.
_calinda_
>> She needs her BM there with her to get through this. Her needs
>> come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
>>
>> Angie
>>
>
> Whoah! Anne loses her husband, the father of her children and her
> needs don't matter? I'm sorry but something's seriously wrong
with
> that line of thinking.
>
> Love,
> Melissa
Yeah, I thought that was kinda harsh myself, at the same time I
think the step-child's needs are important enough to count for
something.
Where is the balance? I don't know. I think any child that has
lost a parent has the right to their other parent's love and
attention at that time, though there would be several exceptions I
could easily see, such as the child that doesn't have a relationship
with 'the other parent'.
I do think in a case such as we're talking above that to say "Anne's
needs don't count" isn't the right balance, but to say "Anne's needs
trounce Childs needs" isn't the right balance either. Definitely a
fine line.
Cal~
Lori
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comspamzap> wrote in message
> >She needs her BM there with her to get through this. Her needs
> >come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
> >
> >Angie
> >
>
> Whoah! Anne loses her husband, the father of her children and her needs
don't
> matter? I'm sorry but something's seriously wrong with that line of
thinking.
>
You know, I think the widow's needs matter, but I also think the feelings of
the deceased parent's children matter. I'd think that a young child who
either lives with the still living parent, or at least has a bond with them,
would want and need their remaining parent to be with them when they have to
say goodbye to their other parent. From watching my own mom when my father
died, I would also say that she (the widow) will want her own time, private
from *anyone* to do her grieving. My mother's grief was different from mine,
and her needs were, as well. Granted, I was an adult, but you know, as much
as my mom despised SS's mom, I think she'd have been proud of me for letting
her be there for SS. There were plenty of people there to keep us from
having to interact all that much. :-)
Geri and sometimes Brian
>come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
>
ni...@impactwp.com
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20040223022651...@mb-m26.aol.com...
I'd usually be all for us voting that we probably needed to allow the other
parent there at our husband's funerals. But, SD lives with Anne and her
husband, and her primary source of parenting, comfort, everything is Anne,
not her mother. Her mother is guaranteed to make a scene and make things
hugely uncomfortable for SD and the entire family. SD is also 15, not a
small child. SD is close to all of her father's family, paternal grandmother
etc, all of whom would be available to comfort her, AND it would be genuine
comfort as they loved him too. BM would be more likely to tell her to get
over it as he was an asshole anyway. How would that be helpful?
I'd be fine to let BM1 come to my DH's funeral for most reasons. But, I
don't feel that my SS would need her there. As I've said, I'd probably want
her there so I could focus on my own grief and that of my child, but SS
would be able to get his comfort from me if he needed to. But again, he's
14, not a small child anymore.
I guess it's another of those where there's no clear cut rule that will
apply for anyone.
Nikki
Nikki
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>Even if she were only five years old, and mom was the parent she was with
>the most? that was the situation here. He lived with his mom, he was five.
>But he wanted to be at his grandma's service. At least we were able to get
>her to bring him to our motel room to spend the night the night before, and
>then just come to the service so he could go home with her. that way *we*
>were able to control whether or not he would be clean, let alone decently
>dressed. She showed up for the service, and plopped herself down in the
>front row next to me, which is when i did have a little trouble, but didn't
>want to make a big deal of it. That's when my aunt reached up and gave me a
>hug and reminded me it wouldn't be a large amount of time.
Lori, I'm not trying to evade the question, but if Chuck had died when
SD was five, her coming to the service at all would never have been an
issue. BM would have had her out of state before the body was cold.
I guess in the situation you're describing, I would have said, "That
really wouldn't be appropriate, but Mommy can bring you to the
servcies and take you home right after."
Anne
Anne Robotti
<j3...@sat-co.net> wrote:
>This is not really about you Anne, it's about your step daughter, and losing
>a parent is very hard for a child. If she wants her mom there, she has every
>right. She shouldn't have to ask for permission. Her mom was there before
>you were. She needs her BM there with her to get through this. Her needs
>come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
>
>Angie
That may be true in your family Angie, but in mine it would be a cold
day in hell before the needs of *any* one child outweighed the needs
of the entire rest of the family. And this is why so many stepkids
grow up with these huge senses of entitlement that many of them have,
IMO. We stress so much "it's all about the kids" that they start to
believe it. And in fact, it's not. It's about Chuck's elderly mother,
and my mother, and me, and my children, and Chuck's friends, and any
number of people who would be distraught when BM came to the funeral
and created a huge scene.
Anne
Anne Robotti
>>She needs her BM there with her to get through this. Her needs
>>come first, yours don't matter at this point in time, sorry.
>>
>>Angie
>>
>
>Whoah! Anne loses her husband, the father of her children and her needs don't
>matter? I'm sorry but something's seriously wrong with that line of thinking.
Ignore it Melissa, who cares?
I just said this in another post, but I think that to take any one
person and put their needs absolutely first in a situation like this
is just asinine. Jess asked me about if SD was five. I don't know,
then maybe, after I made it clear to BM that I'd have no problem
having her dragged out by the police if she stepped out of line for
five seconds. But SD's not five. She's 15. She knows the deal. I don't
even think she'd ask, but if she did I'd have no problem with just
asking her straight out, "Why on earth would you think that would be
okay?"
Anne
Anne Robotti
<calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Where is the balance? I don't know. I think any child that has
>lost a parent has the right to their other parent's love and
>attention at that time, though there would be several exceptions I
>could easily see, such as the child that doesn't have a relationship
>with 'the other parent'.
Well, I think the balance is at the place where you decide that the
ex-wife is capable of coming to the service and not being a
distraction, causing a scene, knowing when to leave, and not upsetting
anybody. Ours isn't. Maybe some people's are.
>
>I do think in a case such as we're talking above that to say "Anne's
>needs don't count" isn't the right balance, but to say "Anne's needs
>trounce Childs needs" isn't the right balance either. Definitely a
>fine line.
Maybe I havne't been clear. It's not even just my personal needs. My
MIL would have a stroke. My SIL would be in a fistfight with BM in the
first ten minutes. It's the needs of the entire rest of the family to
grieve for Chuck in privacy and peace that I'd be factoring in.
Anne
Melissa
>think the step-child's needs are important enough to count for
>something.
Right, and Anne and I are never going to agree on this one I guess.
>Where is the balance? I don't know. I think any child that has
>lost a parent has the right to their other parent's love and
>attention at that time, though there would be several exceptions I
>could easily see, such as the child that doesn't have a relationship
>with 'the other parent'.
>
My parents are divorced which colors my views on this somewhat. I'm going to
need my father if Mom should go first, and vice versa. There would be hell to
pay if *anyone* tried to exclude the other from the service. I know how I
would feel, and wouldn't dream of putting my SK's in the same position.
I also don't see what the big deal about BM causing a scene would be, but again
that's colored by my own experience. I come from a family where it's perfectly
normal for someone to cause some kind of drama and weddings, holidays, and
funerals especially. It's not really that big a deal to me, and certainly not
worth causing a bigger scene myself by trying to keep her out. That would be
exactly what my BM (And Anne's and I suspect Geri) would want anyway.
Melissa
>You know, I think the widow's needs matter, but I also think the feelings of
>the deceased parent's children matter.
I agree completely with this.
ni...@impactwp.com
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comspamzap> wrote in message
snip
> My parents are divorced which colors my views on this somewhat. I'm going
to
> need my father if Mom should go first, and vice versa. There would be
hell to
> pay if *anyone* tried to exclude the other from the service. I know how I
> would feel, and wouldn't dream of putting my SK's in the same position.
> Melissa
> "The old Tom didn't poison your fish either!"
> -Carson Kressley, from Queer Eye
My parents are divorced too and I don't feel I'd need or want the other at
the funeral. It would be weird. We do all spend time together, new partners
and all, but as an adult I'd feel more comfortable if each side of the
family kept to their own as it were.
I'd be upset if one didn't say something to console me, make some comment
that they were a good person etc. I'd expect a full allowance of my grief,
and support before and after the funeral (not directly, but a call to see
how it went).
Nikki
jane
>being there for her kids, but being there to take the opportunity to
>tell everyone how wronged she was and what a bastard the deceased was.
>
You know, though, you really can't ruin a funeral. It's not like a wedding.
The dead body keeps things in a little better perspective.
I'm thinking over the different types of death rituals that I've attended. I
think the church funeral is the way to go for keeping the ex-wife in check.
Preferably a cathedral. If you have one of those services where you're
invited to talk about the deceased, you're screwed. I think you should have a
wake so that she gets the chance to throw herself on the coffin and sob, "Oh,
Ex, why did you leave me?"
While we're on the subject, what is the etiquette on this? The current wife
has to stand near the casket and greet people. What do you do about the kids?
Until recently, Lee would have wanted me to stand there with her. What do
people do?
jane
>
>Vicki
jane
>ex-wife is capable of coming to the service and not being a
>distraction, causing a scene, knowing when to leave, and not upsetting
>anybody. Ours isn't. Maybe some people's are.
Yabbut, Anne. You can count on the attendees already being upset. Scenes and
distractions that leave them reflecting "at least he doesn't have to deal with
that harpy anymore" are not a bad thing.
>My MIL would have a stroke.
When her time comes, her time comes.
> My SIL would be in a fistfight with BM in the first ten minutes.
Outside or inside? Because if they stayed outside, I'd be in favor of it.
I'm just saying, get a grip. You're not giving a party. Your husband is lying
in a box dead. No one expects you to monitor who shows up.
jane
>Anne
jane
>worth causing a bigger scene myself by trying to keep her out. That would be
>exactly what my BM (And Anne's and I suspect Geri) would want anyway.
>Love,
>Melissa
Absolutely. What could be better than a "they posted armed guards at his
funeral" story in your repertoire? I don't know that Anne's BM could really do
it justice. She'd probably go with outrage instead of deep sadness.
jane
jane
How funny. You made me laugh.
jane
Tracey
jane wrote:
> You know, though, you really can't ruin a funeral. It's not like a wedding.
> The dead body keeps things in a little better perspective.
No, you can't ruin a funeral. But you can make a very difficult
time even *more* difficult for people.
<snip>
> While we're on the subject, what is the etiquette on this? The current wife
> has to stand near the casket and greet people. What do you do about the kids?
> Until recently, Lee would have wanted me to stand there with her. What do
> people do?
At my sister's funeral, my parents, myself and her children were in
the 'greeting line', I guess you would call it. My brother just
*couldn't* be there and spent all of his time in a back room reserved
for the family. The whole situation, hard enough on everyone as it
was, was made worse for all when his ex-girlfriend, one which no one
in the family likes, arrived with their daughter (a good thing) and
then proceeded to let her daughter run around unsupervised to plop
herself next to my brother. The only way she was gotten to finally
leave was when my brother's ex-wife quickly took her seat after the
ex-GF had gotten up to get something and just ignored the fact that
she had returned. (Was really kind of funny in a sad kind of way to
see my brother flanked by current wife and ex-wife and a situation
that will make me love my ex-sister-in-law forever, even though I
did before.)
As far as exes at the funeral, my sister's ex spent all of his time
smoozing it up with people and *maybe* spent five minutes total
'supporting' his sons. But, considering how he had already told
the boys they couldn't live with him and would have to live with
his mother instead, I don't think I expected much different behavior
from him.
Tracey
Kerri Clair
> Then offer to help him
>> contact her if that's what he would like.
>
>Which we will, if he wants, but I'm getting the feeling that he wants *her*
>to contact *him* this time, you know?
Surely that *is* what he wants, unfortunately you and your DH don't have much
control over providing that for him. Has your DH ever spoken to her about
their son's desire to have *her* contact *him* sometimes, instead of it always
being the other way around? That might help, as long as it's not done in an
accusing manner and as long as the conversation stays focused on the fact that
her lack of initiating contact is upsetting to the child. That *might* help or
then again it might not, it really depends on whether or not they are able to
speak to each other in a civil manner and depends on how she takes such things.
Still, if the condtions are right it might be worth a shot.
I read your other post about the long distance charges, and you're right, that
shouldn't always fall to you and your DH. But if it does end up staying the
same way, with you and your DH always initiating contact and subsequently
shouldering the cost, you might consider getting a phone card for those calls.
Costco sells phone cards that are 3 cents a minute, and they aren't difficult
to use. You just dial an 800 number, enter the PIN on the card at the prompt,
then dial the long distance number as usual.
-Kerri
Kerri Clair
>That may be true in your family Angie, but in mine it would be a cold
>day in hell before the needs of *any* one child outweighed the needs
>of the entire rest of the family. And this is why so many stepkids
>grow up with these huge senses of entitlement that many of them have,
>IMO. We stress so much "it's all about the kids" that they start to
>believe it.
Not getting into the funeral discussion, but in general your above statement is
so right. I recall a girl I grew up with who had divorced parents who both
remarried. Both parents, and both stepparents, were into that "it's all about
the kids and the kids always come first" toward her and her little brother.
Trouble was, they were *so* overly conscious of that attitude that the line
between the kids' needs and their wants became seriously blurred, and the kids
were onto it and played it for all it was worth.
I remember that girl bragging in middle school about what an advantage it was
to have divorced-and-remarried parents, that because of it she always got
everything she wanted and usually got her way on most things. She would even
brag about how much more she got for birthdays and Christmas than those of us
with intact familes, and how easy it was for her to play one parent against the
other. Her discussions about those things made many of uncomfortable, and by
high school she didn't have any friends because by that time the entitlement
attitude that her parents and stepparents had instilled in her spilled over
into how she related to everyone in her life.
-Kerri
Melissa
>funeral" story in your repertoire?
Exactly. And you know the kids would have to hear it year after year.
Geri and sometimes Brian
>>funeral" story in your repertoire?
>
>Exactly. And you know the kids would have to hear it year after year.
>
chances are extremely likely that after my husband's death, I would not be
allowed to have any further access to my SD anyway, regardless of whether or
not BM was allowed to come to the funeral. So, I would never know about what
was going on in the other family after the fact, but I would have the knowledge
that I had followed my husband's last wishes.
Anne Robotti
>>Yeah, I thought that was kinda harsh myself, at the same time I
>>think the step-child's needs are important enough to count for
>>something.
>
>Right, and Anne and I are never going to agree on this one I guess.
Agree on what? That the stepkid's needs matter? When the hell did I
say they didn't? There would be people there to comfort my SD. If she
wanted to spend time with her Mom immediately before or after hte
services I wouldn't stop her. I would make every effort to accommodate
her needs to grieve with her Mom. Then I would expect that in return
she would take *everybody else's* needs to *not* see her Mom into
account.
>
>
>My parents are divorced which colors my views on this somewhat. I'm going to
>need my father if Mom should go first, and vice versa. There would be hell to
>pay if *anyone* tried to exclude the other from the service.
And is anyone likely to? I think that if you're looking at getting
excluded from a funeral service, you'd have to take a good long look
at why.
Anne
Melissa
>>Right, and Anne and I are never going to agree on this one I guess.
>
>Agree on what?
Agree about BM being allowed to attend the funeral.
>
>And is anyone likely to?
No. I can't imagine anyone being that petty about it actually. Knowing my
family they'd be much more concerned about the things of the deceased,
especially on my father's side. :)
The Watsons
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040223102236...@mb-m07.aol.com...
> I'm just saying, get a grip. You're not giving a party. Your husband is
lying
> in a box dead. No one expects you to monitor who shows up.
i'm gonna hold you to that when it's your turn...
Jess
The Watsons
> While we're on the subject, what is the etiquette on this? The current
wife
> has to stand near the casket and greet people. What do you do about the
kids?
> Until recently, Lee would have wanted me to stand there with her. What do
> people do?
wife greets, kids sit next to her during the ceremony...it holds things up
too much to include the kids when you're greeting everyone, the kids are
already pretty worked up so asking them to be on formal behavior might be a
bit much (edit as wanted/needed for older kids) and there's time at the end
of the ceremony and whatever reception afterwards for everyone to talk with
the kids...
Jess
kitty
over bio-parent? My DH and I are looking into that. BM has never taken
care of the kids by herself (when she has summer visitation her parents are
always there) and has no clue what it is like to help with homework,
activities and to just be there for them.
I wouldn't be able to see the SKs if my Dh dies. BM is a bitch. I
wouldn't want her at the funeral, but she is the kids BM. I don't think he
family would want her there from all the crap she has pulled with DH and
them.
Doesn't it drive you crazy that since (in my case...) a person gave birth
to a child, they think they are a good mom? It's frustrating to have to
pick up the pieces of the kid's psyche after she calls or visits, but we do
it with patience
done with tangent.
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20040223130719...@mb-m21.aol.com...
kitty
Hypothetical situation... kids live with you and DH. BM dies. Do you go
to the funeral with Dh and the kids to offer support for the kids?
"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:_4f_b.8023$c33....@fe01.usenetserver.com...
kitty
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:c1bfli$p6$2...@allhats.xcski.com...
> In a previous article, "kitty" <pu...@meeooo.com> said:
>
> >As morbid as this thread is.. I wouldn't want BM to come to anyone's
> >funeral in DH's family and I don't expect to go to her parent's funeral.
As
> >much as she thinks his family likes her, they cannot stand her. They are
> >nice for the kids' sake.
>
> No reason you should go to the funeral of one of her family members,
> but if *she* died, would you expect DH to go, to be with his kids?
>
> Vicki
> --
> Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
> Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
> 'til I wound up poor and fat.
> -Delbert McClinton
Geri and sometimes Brian
>to the funeral with Dh and the kids to offer support for the kids?
Neither of us would go. (The temptation to put on red hats and tap dancing
shoes might be too much for us.) We would probably make some kind of
arrangement with her mother's family to take her.
kitty
kitty
love them tons and DH and I are always there for them. The 10yr old has
realized that and wrote that for a paper at school.
I hang on to the feeling that when all is said and done, years down the
road, at least he will know who was here for him.
Lori
"
Anne Robotti
>What is BM died?
> Hypothetical situation... kids live with you and DH. BM dies. Do you go
>to the funeral with Dh and the kids to offer support for the kids?
>
Oddly enough, I have no problem with BM's family. Chuck is friendly
enough with a couple of them that he would call and ask what they
would prefer. If it was okay with them, we would go, or Chuck would
go, or whoever SD wanted to go would go. If it wasn't, we would
respect that and help SD in other ways.
Anne