caught in the middle
Grace F Rohrer
I just had a night from hell last night.
I have custody of my 12 year old daughter every other week.
Evenings usually consist of her vegging out in front of the TV,
until I drag her away to eat dinner, and then shut the TV off
and force march her through doing all her homework. She whines
and cries and carries on the whole time she does her homework,
usually 3 out of 4 evenings. (And then there are those blessed
evenings where she sits at the table, and *sings* while she
does her homework, she's organized, she's happy, she's pleased
with herself when she gets it all done. But these types of
good moods have become rarer and rarer.)
Yesterday I came down with a bout of mastitis, all I wanted to
do was go home, climb into bed with my tylenol, hot water bottle
and anti-biotics. I was weak, and dizzy and badly in need of
rest. However, my daughter has missed a day and a half of school,
and had a TON of homework to make up.
I climbed into bed anyway. The next thing I know, my daughter
is SCREAMING at my DH at the top of her lungs, making the *#&($Q
sore throat she has (that's kept her home from school) just that
much worse. She was doing the usual crying, whining and tearing
her hair routine over her homework, and when DH tried to help
her, she told him to 'go away.' He didn't 'go away'--and she
ended up wigging out on him. She feels she is completely justified
in being loud and verbally abusive to him because he didn't leave
her alone.
He feels he was completely justified in trying to help her with
her homework, and getting in her face about it, because he claims
she asked for help.
She claims he tried to do one of her math problems, and 'screwed
it all up', and she told him calmly she didn't need or want his
help anymore (but she did want to continuing whining and crying
and tearing her hair while she did the assignment.)
I ended up hauling myself out of bed, sending her to her room,
and telling DH that he wasn't supposed to talk to her, say anything
to her or help her in any way.
That didn't end it. Later my daughter came to 'apologize' for
yelling--and instead of just saying sorry, she had to keep saying
she was sorry, but she still felt her yelling was justified. DH
kept insisting she was wrong for yelling, and she shouldn't feel
good after abusing someone. My daughter insists yelling and
screaming helps her to feel better, and get all the "anger out."
I am sick to death of helping her with her homework. I would
love to pull her out of the private school, where they do give
lots of homework--but it is stuff she should be able to do...
(and she *is* doing--she made honor roll this last grading
period)
but my ex INSISTS my daughter attend the better school, as WELL AS
DH INSISTS she should stay at the private school. So I'm stuck
tugging and hauling this child through homework she has no self-
motivation to do. She does however want to do it well enough
for the grade, because if she gets a poor grade, her father screams
at her for hours and hours and hours. (But he refuses to sit down
and help her with the homework...) She absolutely worships the
ground her father walks on, and was shaken for weeks after the
episode of him screaming at her over her spelling grades.
After all that tugging and hauling--I drove her to school this
morning, and when we got there, she realized "oops! I forgot
my homework folder"--the one that contained the completed assignment
that precipitated all this screaming and yelling. (She was
completely disorganized, and didn't remember to put it in her
back pack as we were leaving.)
Any advice?
Grace
Marcy
Let me preface this by saying that what works for us, may not work for
you. We run a tight ship here where homework is concerned.
When my 12 year old SS moved here, I was already aware of his problems
with homework. Simply put, he'd do it when he felt like it, or IF he
felt like it. I am fortunate because I happen to be home when he gets
home from school, so I instituted a schedule and some rules.
He is not permitted to watch tv, play, goof off, until homework is
finished. If it's dinner time, he can stop to eat, then he has to get
back to the books. If he needs help, he is to do whatever he can and
save the rest. He then calls me over. I review the work. If I know he
can do it, alone, I leave. If he refuses to do it, I let him suffer
the consequences. This is VERY difficult. He will then blame ME for
his poor grade, but I always point it right back at him saying, "You
are the one who who did not complete the assignment." Period.
I suppose I should add that my SS has some behavioral problems, so if
some of my suggestions seem harsh it's because I feel he needs it.
At age 12, I think most children should be held solely responsible for
their schoolwork. If SD needs help she should ask for it politely.
Otherwise, walk away. If she loses her temper, the adult should walk
away. Let her learn how to calm herself down. Why should the parents
get upset, too? (I'm just learning this...it seems if I get angry and
yell back, it's a victory for the child and I look just as foolish as
he does.)
I know some children are better off doing their homework later in the
evening, but it doesn't work for the boys here. They are too tired and
spacey after dinner to focus.
When SD arrives home from school, is anyone at home to guide her into
some new homework habits? Does she get home early enough to get a jump
on homework before dinner? Can you consider setting aside a fairly
specific and regular time for homework in a quiet place? There can be
consequences if SD insists on goofing off for a lengthy period of
time. Once I removed the cable box wires so the tv *couldn't* be used.
Maybe it was harsh but it sent a message that I wasn't going to let SS
get off the hook. I didn't say anything. I just did it and went back
to preparing dinner.
Also, Dad has to leave SD alone! Berating her won't help one bit. I
had a mother who, when I got a 95 on a test, asked me why I didn't get
a 100. I NOW know she was teasing, but I didn't know it then. I can't
begin to tell you how screwed up I was when I got to college without
my mother standing over me. I flunked out because I just didn't care
any more.
We're supposed to try and raise our children to be independent adults.
All I know is the yelling and screaming won't typically work. SD has
to learn how to please herself, not her dad, or you. Also nagging her
to do her homework should stop. Let her learn that if she doesn't
motivate herself to start it on her own, she will be responsible for
the results. But do not allow her to lounge around watching TV. Either
she does homework or stays in her room. Remove items that she enjoys,
such as the radio, TV, etc. Once I stopped nagging and set down some
rules, SS realized I was serious. He started doing homework on his
own! He's not completely successful, but he's slowly getting there.
Also, my SS is known for forgetting to bring things to school. I made
up a checklist that's posted on the fridge. He checks it every morning
to make sure he has what he needs. This helps him a lot. What's even
better is if your SD learns to put everything in her backpack as soon
as she's finished. We're working on that, here.
Oh, one more thing...I know private schools are notorious for
assigning mountains of homework. I know this because I attended one
for 12 years <sigh>. It's a great deal of hard work, but it can be
beneficial to your SD in the long run.
Regards,
Marcy
E Mail: winterwind at mindspring dot com
ICQ# 16581997
Sian Lee Reid
<gd...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
> I am sick to death of helping her with her homework. I would
> love to pull her out of the private school, where they do give
> lots of homework--but it is stuff she should be able to do...
> (and she *is* doing--she made honor roll this last grading
> period)
> but my ex INSISTS my daughter attend the better school, as WELL AS
> DH INSISTS she should stay at the private school. So I'm stuck
> tugging and hauling this child through homework she has no self-
> motivation to do. She does however want to do it well enough
> for the grade, because if she gets a poor grade, her father screams
> at her for hours and hours and hours. (But he refuses to sit down
> and help her with the homework...) She absolutely worships the
> ground her father walks on, and was shaken for weeks after the
> episode of him screaming at her over her spelling grades.
>
> Any advice?
>
Maybe, but I'm not sure it's going to work for you. Your post says two
contradictory things, that BD is not motivated to do her homework, and
that she _is_ motivated (fear of loss of her father's approval) to get
decent grades.
What is going on now is not working for you. It wouldn't work for me
either. But *I wouldn't haul the kid through her homework.* Really, I'm
doing a PhD, I have my own damned homework! What would happen if you
turned off the TV, said, "It's homework time." and went to another room?
Presumably, she would whine and moan and say that it's too hard, but she
does that now. Ultimately, she'd either do the homework (yay!) or not do
the homework.
If she doesn't do the homework, whose problem is it? Right now, you're
making it yours and your DH is making it his. It should be hers. Make an
appointment to see her teacher at the private school and explain what
you're doing. "We would like Agnes to show more initiative and take more
responsibility for her homework. We believe that it is an important step
in learning the self discipline that will allow her to succeed in the
world." Explain that you expect that there will be days that the homework
will not be done, and that you understand completely that there may be
disciplinary measures attached to that, and that, in fact, this will
underscore the lesson you are trying to impart.
The teacher will either be supportive, or she won't. If she isn't, you
can ask for other ideas about what might improve the homework situation at
your house.
Good luck!
Sian
Daisy
Your daughter sounds pretty normal to me. You can't do her homework for
her, she's gonna have to learn to take the consequences for her actions. I
do admit she doesn't need to be screaming and so on, she needs to learn to
control her temper...that comes with age. You might want to talk to her
school counselor about your concerns perhaps they could shed some light and
give some advice! Good Luck!
Daisy
"Grace F Rohrer" <gd...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote in message
news:MsIFXNu00...@andrew.cmu.edu...
> I am sick to death of helping her with her homework. I would
> love to pull her out of the private school, where they do give
> lots of homework--but it is stuff she should be able to do...
> (and she *is* doing--she made honor roll this last grading
> period)
> but my ex INSISTS my daughter attend the better school, as WELL AS
> DH INSISTS she should stay at the private school. So I'm stuck
> tugging and hauling this child through homework she has no self-
> motivation to do. She does however want to do it well enough
> for the grade, because if she gets a poor grade, her father screams
> at her for hours and hours and hours. (But he refuses to sit down
> and help her with the homework...) She absolutely worships the
> ground her father walks on, and was shaken for weeks after the
> episode of him screaming at her over her spelling grades.
>
Newsgroups
lots of snips..................
> Evenings usually consist of her vegging out in front of the TV,
> until I drag her away to eat dinner, and then shut the TV off
> and force march her through doing all her homework. She whines
> and cries and carries on the whole time she does her homework
suggestion: homework first. nothing else happens in the afternoon
until that gets done. period. no
questions asked. and she is definently old enough to be responsible for
her own homework.
>Yesterday I came down with a bout of mastitis, all I wanted to
> do was go home, climb into bed with my tylenol, hot water bottle
> and anti-biotics. I was weak, and dizzy and badly in need of
> rest. However, my daughter has missed a day and a half of school,
> and had a TON of homework to make up
suggestion: can you explain to her teacher that she was sick and then
you were sick? maybe they can
work something out for over the weekend getting it done. with us,
whenever an adult is having a problem
and they let the school know, something can generally be worked out.
even if the kid has to stay in at break
and the teachers or aides will help a little.
>The next thing I know, my daughter
> is SCREAMING at my DH at the top of her lungs
suggestion: as a rule in this house...there is no screaming at anyone.
you have a voice, you have a
vocabulary and you can learn how to use it like an adult. which is
what she is, a young adult. she
should not scream at anyone, let alone her father....step or
otherwise. no two ways about it.
>He feels he was completely justified in trying to help her with
> her homework, and getting in her face about it, because he claims
> she asked for help
suggestion: it does not matter one way or the other if she asked for
help or not. if he is going to be the
father role, then let him *be* the father. don't you think he was
doing it to try to help you? it seems like
he was trying to take some weight off of your shoulders while you
rested and took a little time off.
>but she still felt her yelling was justified. DH
> kept insisting she was wrong for yelling, and she shouldn't feel
> good after abusing someone. My daughter insists yelling and
> screaming helps her to feel better, and get all the "anger out
i think this is bottled bullshit!!!! and that's that!!!! how do you
justify yelling? how do you justify yelling at
your father? my personal opinion is that if you are going along
with this load of crap then you are
being an enabler of someone who has got some serious socialization
issues.
>I am sick to death of helping her with her homework. I would
> love to pull her out of the private school, where they do give
> lots of homework
grace, you really shouldn't be having to help her every day with
homework. you might have to "check over
it" in the eve. when she goes to bed, but unless she has some
learning problems, she should be doing
her homework herself. public of private school it sounds like you
would still be doing/overseeing her work
>and was shaken for weeks after the
> episode of him screaming at her over her spelling grades
sounds like there's a lot of screaming going on in this house. could
it be that dh is frustrated dealing with
an unmotivated kid that disrespects him and you? hmmm, just my take
on it from one posting....
>she realized "oops! I forgot
> my homework folder"--the one that contained the completed assignment
> that precipitated all this screaming and yelling. (She was
> completely disorganized, and didn't remember to put it in her
> back pack as we were leaving.)
again, it sounds like she needs to be made to be a little more
responsible. yelling and screaming aside
she should have been responsible for her homework.
grace,
i'm sure this comes across kind of harsh. it sounds like you all have a few
more issues than just homework. i would think you would be pleased that dh
is wanting daughter to get a good education. how often is it that women
bitch that men aren't involved enough in their children. now, i am reading
this that this is your bio-daughter and his step-daughter. if we turned the
table and said you were the step-mom and you tried to help with homework and
she screamed at you and your dh (childs father) told you (as sm) not to talk
to or help child.......holy shit. we'd all be jumping on that one that you
ought to back-off of the situation and doesn't he realize what a good deal
he has and on and on........ unless i am completely mistaken on your
situation (which i honestly don't know that much of) it sounds like you all
are having a "backing-up the other" issue. maybe i am mistaken on your
situation and who's daughter she is, but it is my opinion dh was trying to
help you. maybe you can re-evaluate the ordeal from last night.
i sure hope you get to feeling better. mastitis is a serious painful
sickness and you should get lots of rest.
hoping for the best,
kitley
Marcy
Sorry I misread your post. I see now that your ex is the one yelling
at your daughter and DH is the step-dad. Unfortunately, I don't think
you can control what goes on in the ex's home as far as his yelling is
concerned. You might talk to him about it but that just might make it
worse :/
The other stuff I wrote about, I still stand by. I just wanted to
redirect portions of my post to the appropriate parties involved.
Also, you're getting some good advice here. See the common thread
about your daughter having to learn to motivate herself and to be
responsible for her own homework? That's the key.
Good luck to you!
Regards,
Marcy
E Mail: winterwind at mindspring dot com
ICQ# 16581997
Sue
kids get home (4 of them), they are to do their homework. They can
kick, scream or cry all they want. If they have no homework, they go
outside to play, play with each other, read etc.
As far as the tv goes, the kids may only watch discovery, the learning
channel or the history channel, this is during the week until 8pm. We
started this because the sk's blob out in front of the tv. And also it
was a struggle to tear them away from the tv. When they go back to
their mom (in a couple weeks), we fear they may go back and do this
again. We have shown them that there are other things they may do
instead of watching mindless tv, and it is actually working. :)
On weekends, we do allow cartoons and the other shows they enjoy. We
aren't totally heartless.
Stick to your guns Grace.
Sue
jane lawrence
>
> I just had a night from hell last night.
>
> I have custody of my 12 year old daughter every other week.
> Evenings usually consist of her vegging out in front of the TV,
> until I drag her away to eat dinner, and then shut the TV off
> and force march her through doing all her homework. She whines
> and cries and carries on the whole time she does her homework,
> usually 3 out of 4 evenings. (And then there are those blessed
> evenings where she sits at the table, and *sings* while she
> does her homework, she's organized, she's happy, she's pleased
> with herself when she gets it all done. But these types of
> good moods have become rarer and rarer.)
>
she's wonderful. She's driving me nuts. Last night I found out
that she avoided flunk slips in art class by taking incompletes
in all her assignments. When I pointed out that she might not
want to do them during her week with her father (her plan), she
burst into tears. She sobbed that she can't draw and will never
catch up with all the work.
You think forgetting the homework folder is bad? It happens all
the time around here. I'm always emailing her teachers papers
she forgot. This morning I had to jump out of my car and chase
BD to the bus with her stuff. Maybe the trauma of her bus
friends seeing me run down the street in an ankle length red
sweatshirt and plaid flannel robe will help her remember next
time, but I doubt it.
I am luckier than you in that I'm the one who chose the school
with all the homework. At least I'm not ambivalent. To tell
you the truth, I have a hell of a time balancing the pushing and
the backing off myself. I don't want to be in a nightly
homework battle, but BD does let things slide until she's way
behind and overwhelmed. That seems to undermine her
confidence. Since she lets the things slip that she feels
unsure of, the effect is doubled. She ends up with a mountain
of work that she dreads.
My husband doesn't push her. If I were your DH, I wouldn't go
near your daughter and her homework on a bet. Even though he
was just trying to help, I can see how it would be the last
straw for your daughter. I know it probably doesn't seem funny
to you right now but this part of your post:
> I ended up hauling myself out of bed, sending her to her room,
> and telling DH that he wasn't supposed to talk to her, say anything
> to her or help her in any way.
reminded me of an old Bill Cosby routine.
jane
Sian Lee Reid
> friends seeing me run down the street in an ankle length red
> sweatshirt and plaid flannel robe will help her remember next
> time, but I doubt it.
>
Sian
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
>Twelve sucks. I love my daughter with all my heart. I think
>she's wonderful. She's driving me nuts. Last night I found out
>that she avoided flunk slips in art class by taking incompletes
>in all her assignments. When I pointed out that she might not
>want to do them during her week with her father (her plan), she
>burst into tears. She sobbed that she can't draw and will never
>catch up with all the work.
Jane - I cant draw. At all. Well, I can, but everything comes out like
it's done by a 5 year old. I do stick figures. I got along ok with art
as long as it was painting blobs onto paper. When it became trying to
paint actual real things, I was stuffed. That happened in 1989, when I
was 13-14. I hated art. I hated the teacher. She hated me, too. After
one term (8 weeks) I spent the rest of the year in T2 instead of going
to art class. T2 was a room where you went and sat and did nothing
except for work in the subject you were sent there from. I sat there
with 100 Faber Castell pencils, colouring in little squares, and
writing the name and number of the pencil next to it. For every art
class, for the rest of that year.
Next year, I didn't have to do art. I was soo happy. My biggest
problem was I could see how I wanted things to turn out, but I
couldn't get my HANDS to draw it. I got so frustrated. I remember
having the "I can't draw sob sob sob" conversation with my Mum, too.
After a while, she realised that I really was trying, but just was not
capable of it.
Just thought you might like to hear that - maybe she is really
frustrated with art, and this is why she's having trouble. Tutoring
would not have helped me, because I just don't have the talent. Might
help her, tho..
Mel
---------------------------------------------------
Melissa Torresan
sm...@crosswinds.net
"I am serious, and don't call me Shirley!"
---------------------------------------------------
Gina
Melissa Torresan <sm...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message news:38523eef...@news.bigpond.com...
> Jane - I cant draw. At all. Well, I can, but everything comes out like
> it's done by a 5 year old. I do stick figures. I got along ok with art
> as long as it was painting blobs onto paper. When it became trying to
> paint actual real things, I was stuffed. That happened in 1989, when I
> was 13-14. I hated art. I hated the teacher. She hated me, too. After
> one term (8 weeks) I spent the rest of the year in T2 instead of going
> to art class. T2 was a room where you went and sat and did nothing
> except for work in the subject you were sent there from. I sat there
> with 100 Faber Castell pencils, colouring in little squares, and
> writing the name and number of the pencil next to it. For every art
> class, for the rest of that year.
>
> Next year, I didn't have to do art. I was soo happy. My biggest
> problem was I could see how I wanted things to turn out, but I
> couldn't get my HANDS to draw it. I got so frustrated. I remember
> having the "I can't draw sob sob sob" conversation with my Mum, too.
> After a while, she realised that I really was trying, but just was not
> capable of it.
>
> Just thought you might like to hear that - maybe she is really
> frustrated with art, and this is why she's having trouble. Tutoring
> would not have helped me, because I just don't have the talent. Might
> help her, tho..
Hi Mel,
You can draw. You've just got to find your own personal style, something that isn't well appreciated in public school art classes, at least it wasn't in those I attended. Have you ever seen American Folk Art? Many of these artists are quite successful, selling paintings that feature stick figures <g>.
I was very fortunate as a young girl to have a neighbor who was a classically trained artist, who taught the neighborhood kids for a dollar a lesson. We spent 2 hours in Mrs. Dowell's basement each week, where she exposed us to a variety of mediums and encouraged each of us to follow and develop our own styles. There were no *class projects* -- we each were encouraged to follow our own interests and to develop our own unique styles. I learned from her to work in charcoal, pen and ink, watercolor, acrylics, and oils, and learned the basics of ceramics too. Each lesson concluded with a huge tub of butter-dripping popcorn, Kool-Aid, and slides of the great masters.
Schools should teach the basic mechanics of drawing, of course. Where I felt they failed was in their insistence that we all do XXX still life in XXX medium. It stifled creativity. I hated high school art classes. I still love art. Obviously, not everyone is so lucky to have a Mrs. Dowell as a mentor and teacher, but Jane might find someone like that for her daughter in a continuing education course, which might give her daughter a new appreciation for art and build her confidence.
Gina
lilblakdog
>Last night I found out
>that she avoided flunk slips in art class by taking incompletes
>in all her assignments. When I pointed out that she might not
>want to do them during her week with her father (her plan), she
>burst into tears. She sobbed that she can't draw and will never
>catch up with all the work.
Okay, I'm going to admit that this confused the hell out of me for a whole
several hours.
Isn't art an elective? This is what got me...why would she take an elective
when, this early in the game, she's already decided she can't draw?
Then I got to thinking about me. What's Lee's teacher like, Jane? When I
was a kid, I drew *everywhere*. My teachers had to give me special drawing
books because I "decorated" my work every day.
Do you remember those things in the magazines (she asks, sheepishly) where
they say, "Draw Skippy" and it has a picture of a squirrel or something?
And you could win $10,000 or some such thing? I used to draw those--pretty
well, I thought--and send them in. One day, I got a call from a guy
offering me correspondence art lessons. I begged my mother for those
lessons and, as my father had just died, my mother was in "don't upset the
children" mode and let me have them. Every time I drew a picture that was
perfect in my eyes, they'd send it back telling me how it *should* have been
drawn. This line should have curved more; this line should be darker. I
started skipping the asignments I didn't think I could do, thinking they
wouldn't care since we were paying for the lessons. They did. Finally I
quit altogether, rather than have to paint a stupid pheasant.
What I'm getting at is this. I used to love to draw. I thought I was
pretty good at it. Then I got some idiot who told me that the way I drew
was wrong, and wasn't the way it *should* be drawn. For fourteen years,
I've been afraid to even doodle. I get a pencil in my hand and I freeze up
because that little voice--the one that got the B- because the shading
wasn't varied enough--says that I can't do it. This is the one thing that
absolutely terrifies me about this fashion design course--I know damned well
they're gonna expect me to draw something!
If you ask me, art teachers should give a lesson in technique and then *not*
grade the work. Maybe give a few helpful, encouraging suggestions. If
you've done it, you pass. Then kids might actually be inclined to turn in
what they do. Could you imagine if Picasso turned in his art to a teacher
for grading? "No, Pablo! The nose goes here! Look in a bloody mirror,
will you? Fail! Fail! Fail!"
Art is *entirely* self expression, and there shouldn't be anything "wrong"
with any of it.
lil
---
"Who is at fault when a monster is a monster? Is it the monster's? Or the
person who created it to be a monster?"
Someone
mandatory. It was for me - and I was in public school. And for a lot of
kids music wasn't an option because you could choose between orchestra and
band, and if you don't play any instruments, you're SOL.
lilblakdog <lbdcre...@dog.com> wrote in article
<YQu44.4229$uj2.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
: jane lawrence wrote in message <38519442...@excite.com>...
:
: >Last night I found out
: >that she avoided flunk slips in art class by taking incompletes
: >in all her assignments. When I pointed out that she might not
: >want to do them during her week with her father (her plan), she
: >burst into tears. She sobbed that she can't draw and will never
: >catch up with all the work.
:
: Okay, I'm going to admit that this confused the hell out of me for a
:
:
:
Sarai
lilblakdog wrote in message ...
>>that she avoided flunk slips in art class by taking incompletes
>>in all her assignments. When I pointed out that she might not
>>want to do them during her week with her father (her plan), she
>>burst into tears. She sobbed that she can't draw and will never
>>catch up with all the work.
>
LOL!!!! Or if they said to Degas..."What is your deal with ballerinas??"
Heather
Sian Lee Reid
> >Isn't art an elective? This is what got me...why would she take an
> elective
> >when, this early in the game, she's already decided she can't draw?
> >
Not that I'm Jane (see recent gift giving posts as evidence!) but I seem
to recall that Lee is in attending an arts magnet school. Drawing may
not, in fact, be an elective!
Sian
Newsgroups
kitley
Sian Lee Reid <slr...@alfred.carleton.ca> wrote in message
news:slreid-1112...@192.0.2.1...
Someone
Gym is optional for my SD, but when I was in school it was mandatory for
all 4 years every other day.
How do you guys feel about that? I personally feel like some kids' only
opportunity to get some physical exercise is in gym class (this isn't the
case with my SD, but it is for more than a few students) and if that
becomes optional...?
Just want to get some thoughts on this. I know a lot of people had bad
experiences with gym class, but I'm not sure that that's a majority
feeling.
Newsgroups <kit...@aol.com> wrote in article
<s55bml...@corp.supernews.com>...
: even in our public school, all students must have at least one year of
:
:
:
lilblakdog
strange to me!
Not only did I not have to take it, I couldn't. I went to an
out-of-district school and had to register after everybody else. By the
time I got there, it was completely full. So was band and typing. I got
drama...which was by no means a bad thing.
Someone wrote in message <01bf4419$6b8ae880$71d7...@pc.vaxxine.com>...
>Gym is optional for my SD, but when I was in school it was mandatory for
>all 4 years every other day.
>
>How do you guys feel about that?
PE was mandatory for me from 8th - 10th grade. I barely passed 8th grade,
took an "Incomplete" in 9th (I got in so many fights that they felt it was
best if I was an office monitor instead), and failed 10th. However, I made
a special deal with Coach Woodward shortly before the end of the year--pass
me and you never have to deal with me again; fail me and I'm here next year.
He passed me.
> I personally feel like some kids' only
>opportunity to get some physical exercise is in gym class
I agree. However, I also know what a bite in the ass PE was for me.
First of all, there was the running. I was told day after day that I'd get
better if I just stuck with it. I never did...always insisting that I
couldn't breath. Day after day, year after year, I still had to do the mile
long runs. To this day, I can't run more than a hundred metres without
having a massive asthma attack.
Yeah, my doctor could have and should have diagnosed it back then. But it
would be nice if PE teachers made an effort to listen to kids when it's a
question of a health issue.
Second, is the fact that they assume that you know the rules to the sports.
Nobody ever says, "Okay...our next section is basketball. This is how
basketball is played...." The deal is, "Alright...everybody onto the
court!" And the game begins. I have *no* idea how to play basketball and I
took three horrifying years of it. You can never get any better if you have
*no* idea how to do so.
Finally, in 10th grade, PE was co-ed. I'm sorry...we were never any good at
playing touch football with the guys. The coach would make fun of us; the
guys would make fun of us. For God's sake, if you're going to do it, make
it fair.
I agree that recreation is necessary and a lot of these kids should get more
of it. But I think some *serious* changes need to be made--at least over
the way *I* was taught--in the way the course is handled.
jane lawrence
>
> How many of you have bio or stepkids who have mandatory gym class?
>
> all 4 years every other day.
>
> opportunity to get some physical exercise is in gym class (this isn't the
> case with my SD, but it is for more than a few students) and if that
> becomes optional...?
>
> Just want to get some thoughts on this. I know a lot of people had bad
> experiences with gym class, but I'm not sure that that's a majority
> feeling.
I'm so glad you asked. This just came up the other day.
We used to have study periods during school, but that's not
allowed anymore, I guess. The kids have gym every day. At the
arts magnet, they have arts-related physical education classes,
so BD is taking ballet. I really like her to have a class where
she gets up to move around during the day.
Anyway, driving in the car (as always) we had the most amazing
conversation. Her friend speaks Spanish as her first language
and could not think of the word for the part of your leg above
the ankle. I suggested "shin." BD suggested "tibia." Then
somehow she went off on this long discourse about leg anatomy.
She went on and on about the fibula and tibia and their
functions and structure and how I had broken my fibula, which
had it's advantages because it wasn't the major weight-bearing
bone, so it healed easier. But still, fractures of the tibia
were generally cleaner breaks, so they healed easier in that
regard.
Meanwhile, poor Ruby is still trying to think of the word
"calf," and I'm wondering how the hell my kid turned into an
orthopedic surgeon overnight. So I asked her, and she said that
they had to study physiology in ballet so that they wouldn't
hurt themselves.
On the down side, my nephew broke his clavicle in PE yesterday.
jane
lilblakdog
>The more I hear about some public-school experiences, the more I consider
>myself lucky that the public school I attended seems to not fall into the
>norm.
I actually forgot something.
In elementary school PE, we had to do gymnastics. One teacher; six or seven
stations. The teacher was at the pummel horse, helping the kids do
sommersaults (you'll have to excuse me if my spelling is *way* off!) on top
of it. There was another station where you had to jump off of a spring
board, do a sommersault in the air, and land on your back on a 2' thick mat.
I landed on the back of my neck, slipping a disc in my back that's still
causing me spasms and migraines, eighteen years later.
Because of this, I refused to do the high jump when I got to highschool. I
had to take another "fail".
lil (who really, *really* hated PE)
Kevin
Schools can be the very worst place to learn some things
Kevin
In article <82tm93$stn$1...@nntp9.atl.mindspring.net>, Gina says...
>
> Melissa Torresan <sm...@crosswinds.net> wrote in message =
> news:38523eef...@news.bigpond.com...
> > Jane - I cant draw. At all. Well, I can, but everything comes out like
> > it's done by a 5 year old. I do stick figures. I got along ok with art
> > as long as it was painting blobs onto paper. When it became trying to
> > paint actual real things, I was stuffed. That happened in 1989, when I
> > was 13-14. I hated art. I hated the teacher. She hated me, too. After
> > one term (8 weeks) I spent the rest of the year in T2 instead of going
> > to art class. T2 was a room where you went and sat and did nothing
> > except for work in the subject you were sent there from. I sat there
> > with 100 Faber Castell pencils, colouring in little squares, and
> > writing the name and number of the pencil next to it. For every art
> > class, for the rest of that year.=20
> >=20
> > Next year, I didn't have to do art. I was soo happy. My biggest
> > problem was I could see how I wanted things to turn out, but I
> > couldn't get my HANDS to draw it. I got so frustrated. I remember
> > having the "I can't draw sob sob sob" conversation with my Mum, too.
> > After a while, she realised that I really was trying, but just was not
> > capable of it.=20
> >=20
> > Just thought you might like to hear that - maybe she is really
> > frustrated with art, and this is why she's having trouble. Tutoring
> > would not have helped me, because I just don't have the talent. Might
> > help her, tho..
>
> Hi Mel,
>
> You can draw. You've just got to find your own personal style, =
> something that isn't well appreciated in public school art classes, at =
> least it wasn't in those I attended. Have you ever seen American Folk =
> Art? Many of these artists are quite successful, selling paintings that =
> feature stick figures <g>.
>
> I was very fortunate as a young girl to have a neighbor who was a =
> classically trained artist, who taught the neighborhood kids for a =
> dollar a lesson. We spent 2 hours in Mrs. Dowell's basement each week, =
> where she exposed us to a variety of mediums and encouraged each of us =
> to follow and develop our own styles. There were no *class projects* -- =
> we each were encouraged to follow our own interests and to develop our =
> own unique styles. I learned from her to work in charcoal, pen and ink, =
> watercolor, acrylics, and oils, and learned the basics of ceramics too. =
> Each lesson concluded with a huge tub of butter-dripping popcorn, =
> Kool-Aid, and slides of the great masters. =20
>
> Schools should teach the basic mechanics of drawing, of course. Where I =
> felt they failed was in their insistence that we all do XXX still life =
> in XXX medium. It stifled creativity. I hated high school art classes. =
> I still love art. Obviously, not everyone is so lucky to have a Mrs. =
> Dowell as a mentor and teacher, but Jane might find someone like that =
> for her daughter in a continuing education course, which might give her =
> daughter a new appreciation for art and build her confidence.
>
> Gina
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
--
Forget love, I'd rather fall in chocolate.
Someone
myself lucky that the public school I attended seems to not fall into the
norm.
We had gym, sometimes co-ed, sometimes not. At all times we had one female
and one male teacher. At the beginning of each year we learn certain
preventative things like how to fall to minimize injury, certain aspects of
physiology (not to the extent of Jane's daughter though!), etc.
We got the rules to every game before we played, and we often voted on what
we would like to learn (i.e. should we do golf next or archery? - we chose
archery, and I was pretty good at it until my boobs got to be too big!)
We also learned how to use various machines that are typically found in a
gym, how to calculate our BMI, and how to calculate how many reps and sets
we should do depending on the individual.
If we had to run, we were also given the option to "speed walk".
Again, I realize this probably isn't the norm though, and it's too bad. If
it were, I think a lot more kids could get a lot more out of gym.
lilblakdog <lbdcre...@dog.com> wrote in article
<PoA44.4434$uj2.1...@newscontent-01.sprint.ca>...
: First of all, I'd like to add that the idea of mandatory art is *really*
: strange to me!
:
: Not only did I not have to take it, I couldn't. I went to an
: out-of-district school and had to register after everybody else. By the
: time I got there, it was completely full. So was band and typing. I got
: drama...which was by no means a bad thing.
:
: Someone wrote in message <01bf4419$6b8ae880$71d7...@pc.vaxxine.com>...
:
: >Gym is optional for my SD, but when I was in school it was mandatory for
: >all 4 years every other day.
: >
: >How do you guys feel about that?
:
: PE was mandatory for me from 8th - 10th grade. I barely passed 8th
grade,
: took an "Incomplete" in 9th (I got in so many fights that they felt it
was
: best if I was an office monitor instead), and failed 10th. However, I
made
: a special deal with Coach Woodward shortly before the end of the
year--pass
: me and you never have to deal with me again; fail me and I'm here next
year.
: He passed me.
:
: > I personally feel like some kids' only
: >opportunity to get some physical exercise is in gym class
:
: I agree. However, I also know what a bite in the ass PE was for me.
: ---
:
:
:
Anne Robotti
Anne
Sian Lee Reid wrote:
> I'm just not
> built to be working on the male apparatus.
>
Sian Lee Reid
<lbdcre...@dog.com> wrote:
>
> In elementary school PE, we had to do gymnastics. One teacher; six or seven
> stations. The teacher was at the pummel horse, helping the kids do
> sommersaults (you'll have to excuse me if my spelling is *way* off!) on top
> of it. There was another station where you had to jump off of a spring
> board, do a sommersault in the air, and land on your back on a 2' thick mat.
> I landed on the back of my neck, slipping a disc in my back that's still
> causing me spasms and migraines, eighteen years later.
>
that off a vault and landed the same way and they are definitely not a
good time. I'm laughing at the somewhat Jungian spelling of 'pommel
horse'. There were a lot of days I wanted to pummel it too! I'm just not
built to be working on the male apparatus.
Oh... that sounds much, much cruder than it should. Oh well...
Sian
(who also hated phys ed, but who got through with mostly Bs because her
health marks and near perfect gymnastics scores made up for the
basketball, field hockey and volleyball!)
Bree
jane lawrence wrote in message
> Twelve sucks.
And 13, 14, & 15. Moreso with girls, especially when their
menstrual cycles begin. I swear that my daughters have
a secret stash of hormones reserved for Mommy moments :-)
I worked with D1 with homework as she would whine and
crawl around the floor on her belly saying "I can't and I won't
do this". After hours of struggling through getting it done
and going to bed with a headache she'd leave the work at
home at get an F anyway. Daily h/w battles went on through
high school.
D2 has been responsible for her own homework since junior
high. I offer to help but don't push. During 7th & 8th grades
her report cards went from A/B to D/F [same pattern as son
and D1]. Mid-8th grade I handed her the notice from school
that said she was failing for the year. The tears [hers] flowed
as she tried to put the blame on me for her failings. I advised
her that she wants to be treated like an adult, therefore she
must take the responsibilities that go with making her own
decisions regarding h/w. Then I went to my room and cried.
The balance of her grades that year were A/B/C. Her most
recent report card [first year of high school] had A's and B's.
It's not to say my present methods are right, only that they're
working for me. I learned this via a teen assertiveness class
offered by the junior high school.
Bree
a=seabreeze
b=adelphia
Someone
worse until in 8th grade one marking period I got a mid-term in EVERY
SUBJECT - I was close to failing.
I had no idea my slacking off would have that much of an impact that
quickly, and it was a real eye-opener. I didn't fail, and I promised
myself that I would make a fresh start in high school. I retained As and
Bs through most of high school, and it did pay off.
Bree <a...@b.net> wrote in article
<Hc854.1385$Wo6.1...@server1.news.adelphia.net>...
:
: jane lawrence wrote in message
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
:
Jennaii
not a learned skill.... especially when you dont even LIKE it.
>You can draw. You've just got to find your own personal style, =
>something that isn't well appreciated in public school art classes, at =
>least it wasn't in those I attended. Have you ever seen American Folk
"This time: gonna do it RIGHT!" -- Bob Seger
Jennaii
jane lawrence
>
> I can't draw either. I have no talent for it at all. Period the end. Art is
> not a learned skill.... especially when you dont even LIKE it.
>
> >You can draw. You've just got to find your own personal style, =
> >something that isn't well appreciated in public school art classes, at =
> >least it wasn't in those I attended. Have you ever seen American Folk
>
Art is a lot more than drawing, though. That's part of what I
expect BD to learn in this course. There's no reason why she
can't come to grasp art theory, composition, juxtaposition of
color and form, try her hand at working with acrylics,
watercolors, charcoal, and all that.
There's another issue, though. I chose an arts magnet, because
I very strongly believe that arts should be integrated into any
curriculum. I don't want to get too far OT, but I think that
ballet is an excellent place to learn about physiology and that
art class provides a wonderful forum for studying light. BD
excels academically. She really only gets to face challenges
and stretch herself in the arts. It is precisely because she
can't draw that I want her to take this course.
Chorus OTOH I have sympathy with her about. If you had ever
heard me sing, you'd understand why.
jane
gd...@my-deja.com
Grace F Rohrer <gd...@andrew.cmu.edu> wrote:
>
>
> I just had a night from hell last night.
>
> I have custody of my 12 year old daughter every
other week.
> Evenings usually consist of her vegging out in
front of the TV,
> until I drag her away to eat dinner, and then
shut the TV off
> and force march her through doing all her
homework. She whines
> and cries and carries on the whole time she does
her homework,
> usually 3 out of 4 evenings. (And then there
are those blessed
> evenings where she sits at the table, and
*sings* while she
> does her homework, she's organized, she's happy,
she's pleased
> with herself when she gets it all done. But
these types of
> good moods have become rarer and rarer.)
>
Thanks for all your replies. Everyone confirmed
pretty much what I already know.
I wish I could be home when she got home from
school--that's when the darn TV gets switched on
and she gets sucked in. I'm considering trying
to re-arrange my work schedule so I can get
home earlier. I'm also considering unhooking
the TV and putting it away in the basement.
The counsellor we did have, kept recommending
over and over that DH not try to 'parent' my
daughter at all. She is highly resistant to it.
DH unfortunately, at the very core of his nature
WANTS TO HELP. And all hell breaks loose when
I'm not there to act as buffer between them.
Fortunately the antibiotics and a little bit of
rest made all the difference, and for two homework
nights in a row now, my daughter has been
cooperative and productive.
We will be working on adjusting her temper. And
we will continue to repeat the message that there
is no screaming in our house.
Thanks!
Grace
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