Kids Flying Between Parents
Lisa
step-father and her step=brother, and her Dad's house across the country
where she has a new step-mother. Her father spends his money on
visitation instead of child support. He used to come here and pick her
up, fly with her to his house, and then fly her back here --once or
twice a year. He also comes out to see her every couple of months for a
long week-end or so.
This summmer she turned 10 and he pointed out (to her) that she could
come more often if he didn't have to come and get her. She really
wanted to fly by herself to see him. (It hasn't actually resulted in
more frequent visits --just less expensive for him.) So we agreed that
she would go there by herself.
But coming home, she would still have him with her. She is always
really devastated when she says good-bye to him. I can't imagine her
all alone for a six-hour plane ride just then.
Now she says that she wants to fly there and back, by herself, for a
weekend in September. He and his wife have moved into a new house, and
they would all like for her to "help" in the move, mostly in painting
her new room. He has told her that she can only do it if she goes both
ways alone.
I'm not too surprised that he's manipulating her in this way --he should
have talked to me first. But there it is. I've discussed it with him
before, and I will again --but for the present there's a can of worms
open.
So, what about it? What experiences have other folks had with kids in
this situation? Am I being wildly over-protective, or is this more than
a 10-year-old should have to bear? I'm okay with forbidding it if it
would be bad for her. But --what have other folks found? Is it as
devastating as I think?
Lisa
Kyle and Kim's Mom
long as the child feels comfortable. I fly alot with my kids and without.
They flew alone this summer for the first time just because I wasn't going
where they were going (Hawaii - darned kids). They are 13 and 11. Flight
attendants are always aware there is an unaccompanied minor on a flight and
really do take extra care of them. I've witnessed this over and over.
SoccerStepMom
My stepsons's Mom left town when they were 5 and 8, and they flew
unaccompanied (but together) to visit her 3-4 times during the year+
that she was gone. It was more like a 3 hour flight, and they had each
other, if that makes a difference to you.
But I would say 10 is plenty old to fly alone, and to deal with changing
households. Just make sure she has movie money.
SSM
PS, I do agree it was jerky of your ex to discuss it with her before
discussing it with you.
Bob Laurent
My now 14 year old step daughter has been flying cross country
by herself since she was 8 to spend time at our household (she
spends the school year with her father, we get her for the summer
and many school holidays, he usually gets her for a week during
the summer). We've given her a list of people to contact if
she has problems in a connecting city, and she's done just fine.
Northrnwmn
>You can usually hire an escort that will take the child from start to finish
>for about $40 each way. Call airline for details.
Pockets and the poster before him/her had a good point about an escort for your
daughter. However, your ex needs to be paying for this! Especially if he
doesn't give you support and spends his $$$ simply on visitation, which is not
legal, he needs to be responsible for paying the charges involved. Can you tell
him that you will only allow your daughter to fly by herself if he makes the
necessary arrangements and pays for the escort?
Just a thought....
Sandy
Stacy
year, this year my 8 yr old daughter accompanied him. I also know a boy who
flew from Missouri to Florida since he was very young to visit his mom.
This involved changing planes also, he <and my children> were taken
excellant care of by the flight crew, including the pilot, my kids got to
sit in the cockpit before deplaning in Kansas City. I consider myself
overprotective and I was terrified and sobbed when the kids got on the plane
to leave, but guess what, they made it fine and are looking forward to the
next trip without me.
Stacy
Lisa wrote in message <35E765...@ncal.net>...
tel...@ncal.net
For sure!
That's our deal --he pays all the expenses of visitation. Every so
often I have to remind him of one, but then he usually forks it over. I
figure paying for escorts and all is a deal, because under the deal we
had he would pay for his ticket to come get her & then again to bring
her back.
Actually, if this works then the expense of visitation will be way
less. So if he doesn't increase his contact with her then I'll see
about getting support for her, as well. We live in CA where the
guideline amounts are pretty stiff.
BTW, evverybody, I really appreciate your comments. Maybe I hvae been
making too big a deal out of this. It's just that when he leaves her,
when she's home, she just collapses with heart-wringing grief for a
couple of hours --sobbs and screams, subsides to a whimper, and falls
asleep in my lap. When she wakes up she's ready to feel better (though
still wants some coddling) -but that break is hard. It's hard to
imagine her going through that all alone. But maybe if she weren't in
my lap it wouldn't be that way . . .
I'm thinking hard.
janelaw
>
> Background: My daughter has two step-families: here with me, her
> step-father and her step=brother, and her Dad's house across the country
> where she has a new step-mother. Her father spends his money on
> visitation instead of child support. He used to come here and pick her
> up, fly with her to his house, and then fly her back here --once or
> twice a year. He also comes out to see her every couple of months for a
> long week-end or so.
>
> This summmer she turned 10 and he pointed out (to her) that she could
> come more often if he didn't have to come and get her. She really
> wanted to fly by herself to see him. (It hasn't actually resulted in
> more frequent visits --just less expensive for him.) So we agreed that
> she would go there by herself.
>
> But coming home, she would still have him with her. She is always
> really devastated when she says good-bye to him. I can't imagine her
> all alone for a six-hour plane ride just then.
>
>
> So, what about it? What experiences have other folks had with kids in
> this situation? Am I being wildly over-protective, or is this more than
> a 10-year-old should have to bear? I'm okay with forbidding it if it
> would be bad for her. But --what have other folks found? Is it as
> devastating as I think?
>
> Lisa
My daughter just turned 11 yo. She has been flying back and
forth across the country alone since she turned 9 yo.
This is what works for us:
-Get non-stop flights. If it is absolutely necessary, direct
will do, but it is much harder on a child because it keeps them
cooped up longer.
-Pay the $30 for the escort.
-Buy her a Vogue.
-Make sure she has her cds and walkman, two books, a notebook,
and a game boy (but NO NAIL POLISH) in her carry on.
-Try to schedule long enough visits that your daughter is ready
to come home when the visit is over. I have my daughter in year
round school so that she can go back for at least 3 weeks, 3
times a year. If she comes back in less than 2 weeks, she feels
bad about leaving her dad. OTOH, if she were visiting more
often, a shorter period would do. She would probably be
happiest with about 4 days/mo there.
I would never even remotely consider flying her back for a
weekend. (Actually, I would if her dad or one of her brothers
were getting married.) I would, however, let her take a few
days extra off school at Thanksgiving or another holiday to
stretch things to a week.
Incidentally, she loves to fly, altho she would prefer to fly
first class. She loves to go see her dad, and she loves to come
home.
P.S. I don't think you are overly protective. I do this
regularly, but it still kills me to realize that my baby is all
alone, way up in the sky, thousands of miles from either one of
us. (Meanwhile, she's having a ball feeling all grown up.)
Lisa
That's our deal --he pays all the expenses of visitation. Every so
often I have to remind him of one, but then he usually forks it over.
I
figure paying for escorts and all is a deal, because under the deal we
had he would pay for his ticket to come get her & then again to bring
her back.
Actually, if this works then the expense of visitation will be way
less. So if he doesn't increase his contact with her then I'll see
about getting support for her, as well. We live in CA where the
guideline amounts are pretty stiff.
BTW, evverybody, I really appreciate your comments. Maybe I hvae been
making too big a deal out of this. It's just that when he leaves her,
when she's home, she just collapses with heart-wringing grief for a
couple of hours --sobbs and screams, subsides to a whimper, and falls
asleep in my lap. When she wakes up she's ready to feel better (though
still wants some coddling) -but that break is hard. It's hard to
imagine her going through that all alone. But maybe if she weren't in
my lap it wouldn't be that way . . .
I'm thinking hard.
Lisa
Wakanyeja Makah
On Fri, 28 Aug 1998 19:19:29 -0700, Lisa <tel...@ncal.net> wrote:
Hi Lisa,
<snipped>
>This summmer she turned 10 and he pointed out (to her) that she could
>come more often if he didn't have to come and get her. She really
>wanted to fly by herself to see him. (It hasn't actually resulted in
>more frequent visits --just less expensive for him.) So we agreed that
>she would go there by herself.
At 10, this is a reasonable request. My SS has been flying since he was 7
years old. He LOVES to fly! It is quite common for children 7-and over to
fly alone. We always schedule direct flights (no layovers or switching
planes) and have accompaniment ($40.00 from the airlines) and my SS feels
as though he has his own *private* airline attendant. These people are
wonderful.
>But coming home, she would still have him with her. She is always
>really devastated when she says good-bye to him. I can't imagine her
>all alone for a six-hour plane ride just then.
It is devastating to say goodbye...but to have to buy a ticket one way and
a round-trip (leaving the same day) flight. The cost is unbelievable!
>Now she says that she wants to fly there and back, by herself, for a
>weekend in September. He and his wife have moved into a new house, and
>they would all like for her to "help" in the move, mostly in painting
>her new room. He has told her that she can only do it if she goes both
>ways alone.
If they have just *bought a new house* ..perhaps they cannot afford the
excess flight. I know when we bought *ours* that we were financially wiped
for months.
>I'm not too surprised that he's manipulating her in this way --he should
>have talked to me first. But there it is. I've discussed it with him
>before, and I will again --but for the present there's a can of worms
>open.
>
Well, it seems that you are tending to project here. I don't see it as
manipulation. Maybe they can't afford it. If you are still concerned
about it...perhaps YOU could purchase a round-trip ticket for yourself the
day she is scheduled to fly back and accompany her. Be prepared to spend
several hundred dollars on a round-trip flight arriving and leaving on the
same day. It is amazingly expensive.
Completely over your budget?
Can't get the time away from work?
Can't find a round-trip flight (flying back the same day that you arrive)
for under several hundred dollars?
Maybe this is his problem as well.
(...sorry if this last bit sounded a bit cynical..I drove over 1000 miles
to *take* my SS home one summer (when he was six) and (at that time he
lived in Boston) I phoned his mother just outside of Boston Proper to see
if she would drive five minutes to a McDonalds, so that I wouldn't have to
fight the Boston Traffic at 5:00 PM after driving 20+ hours only to be told
that it would be "...far too much trouble..."for her. Sometimes I don't
think the CP truly appreciate the time or effort that is put forth to see
these children.)
>So, what about it? What experiences have other folks had with kids in
>this situation? Am I being wildly over-protective, or is this more than
>a 10-year-old should have to bear? I'm okay with forbidding it if it
>would be bad for her. But --what have other folks found? Is it as
>devastating as I think?
I think you should let your daughter visit her father and step-mother and
be happy that she has a good relationship with them and you should let her
spread her wings a little. She will live through the flight home.
>Lisa
W. Makah
Andrew&Posey
>>Now she says that she wants to fly there and back, by herself, for a
>>weekend in September. He and his wife have moved into a new house, and
>>they would all like for her to "help" in the move, mostly in painting
>>her new room. He has told her that she can only do it if she goes both
>>ways alone.
I agree that you may be projecting here. What better way for your daughter
to feel a part of her dad's family than to be able to create her own room in
his new house? I think that the statement that her dad is giving her a room
when she is hardly ever there is to be commended and I think that you should
do whatever you can to make her be a part of such an important time, even if
it means that you do have to make that return trip with her.
Hope I don't sound cynical either...
Posey
Lisa
Oh, I see how it could sound like that. No, I've worked really hard to
help my daughter & her father feel involved with each others' lives
--and her new step-mom, too. I think it's great that she's going. And
I realize that the duplicate tix are expensive.
But, that's what our agreement has been for 7 yeras. I get by without
support because we agreed that she wasn't ready to fly alone, so he was
spending his money on that super-expensive visitation. And that was
fine, because I wanted her to have a relationship with him more than I
wanted money to help raise her.
I think it's manipulative for him to approach her about changing the
deal before asking me.
See what I mean?
Andrew&Posey wrote:
(and they were amplifying what Wakanyeja Maka said)
Lisa
Thanks for the information about your experience with kids flying
alone. I am relieved that it seems to work well for so many people. I
knew that it was not unusual, but I didn't know how the children were
actually affected.
I sympathize with your exhausting drive to help your stepson when biomom
wouldn't come through. We, too, go to great lengths both for our
daughter (mine from my previous marriage) and our son (my DH's from his)
to see their other parents. We've spent plenty of time in traffic so
that our son could do something with his mother that disrupted our
plans. His mother is NCP, by the way, and doesn't like to take trouble
either. (Once when I asked if she would do something he wanted --I
forget what-- she said, "Oh no . . .I work!" Like I sit around eating
bon-bon's & reading magazines all day?)
I probably didn't sound as grateful as I ought to, that my daughter's
father wants to have her come and feel included in their move. My ex
and I tend to take it for granted that our daughter's welfare comes
first, and I know that's not common. It's great that she feels big &
brave, and great that they want her there for this experience.
I know what plane travel costs, and that's why I wanted to know how this
had worked for people. Ever since my daughter's father moved away, he
has done that bock-and-forth-and-back-and-forth thing, in lieu of child
support. That IS his budget. And it's a good deal, too. If his could
see her more often for the same money by having just his ticket (he
often comes here to see her) or hers to pay for, that would be great.
We have been extravagant about visitation, it is true. But we have BOTH
been extravagant. He spends less on visitation even under the old
regime than I would receive in CS if I asked for it. (California takes
a hard line on that.)
I was ticked off, though, that the first I heard of it was her saying
"Daddy said if I came back alone I could . . ." about a trip that would
be great for her. It was an agreement between him and me, for her best
interest. If he thinks it's no longer in her best interest, then I want
him to tell me that so I can think about it and discuss it, rather than
offer her a treat only on conditon that the deal gets changed.
And finally, well, yes, if it wre the only way she could go i would try
to arrange company for her to come back --perhaps splitting his fare, or
something else. And he doesn't have to return the same day, because he
often stays here for a week at a time and has an extremely flexible
schedule. But now I'm just getting defensive.
Signing off, then!
Thanks for your advice.
Wakanyeja Makah wrote:
<snip>
> At 10, this is a reasonable request. My SS has been flying since he was 7 years old. He LOVES to fly! It is quite common for children 7-and over to fly alone. We always schedule direct flights (no layovers or switching planes) and have accompaniment ($40.00 from the airlines) and my SS feels as though he has his own *private* airline attendant. These people are wonderful.
It is devastating to say goodbye...but to have to buy a ticket one way
and a round-trip (leaving the same day) flight. The cost is
unbelievable!
If they have just *bought a new house* ..perhaps they cannot afford the
excess flight. I know when we bought *ours* that we were financially
wiped for months.
<delete the part where I said he was "manipulating" our daughter>
Well, it seems that you are tending to project here. I don't see it as
manipulation. Maybe they can't afford it. If you are still concerned
about it...perhaps YOU could purchase a round-trip ticket for yourself
the day she is scheduled to fly back and accompany her. Be prepared to
spend several hundred dollars on a round-trip flight arriving and
leaving on the same day. It is amazingly expensive.
>
> Completely over your budget?
>
> Can't get the time away from work?
>
> Can't find a round-trip flight (flying back the same day that you arrive)for under several hundred dollars?
>
> Maybe this is his problem as well.
>
> (...sorry if this last bit sounded a bit cynical..I drove over 1000 miles
> to *take* my SS home one summer (when he was six) and (at that time he
> lived in Boston) I phoned his mother just outside of Boston Proper to see
> if she would drive five minutes to a McDonalds, so that I wouldn't have to
> fight the Boston Traffic at 5:00 PM after driving 20+ hours only to be told
> that it would be "...far too much trouble..."for her. Sometimes I don't
> think the CP truly appreciate the time or effort that is put forth to see
> these children.)
>
> >So, what about it? What experiences have other folks had with kids in
> >this situation? Am I being wildly over-protective, or is this more than
> >a 10-year-old should have to bear? I'm okay with forbidding it if it
> >would be bad for her. But --what have other folks found? Is it as
> >devastating as I think?
>
> I think you should let your daughter visit her father and step-mother and
> be happy that she has a good relationship with them and you should let her
> spread her wings a little. She will live through the flight home.
>
>
> W. Makah
Misch 104
can't arrage for a direct flight between cities (which I would strongly
recommend), I would make sure that she isn't booked on the last possible flight
out of his home town. This might not happen too much now, since she is only
10. But especially when she gets older.
My husband and I went through a stressful experience this past summer when
his son was booked on a late flight out of NY. His plane was an hour late
landing in Phitsburgh due to a closed runway. As a result, he missed his
connecting flight to Minnesota. Meanwhile my husband is at the airport (three
hours from our home) waiting to pick him up. I get a phone call from my
step-son asking me if his dad is at the airport. I tell him that he is, and I
then find out that my SS isn't going to be on the plane and I have no way of
getting ahold of his dad to tell him this. Needless to say there was a lot of
worry when everyone got off the plane and no SS. And my SS is only 14 years
old and have to go through that stressful experience! I'm only surprised it
hadn't happened before on one of his trips to visit his mother, since she likes
to book him on the last possible flight out of NY.
I just wanted to share a little bit of our experience. I wouldn't want
anything like that to happen to anyone else. It's not a fun thing to go
through.
I hope this helps in your decision making.
Michelle
lilblakdog
Misch 104 wrote in message
<199809070454...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
>And my SS is only 14 years
>old and have to go through that stressful experience!
Eugh! Been there, done that...and it was stressful for me at 25!
I was being flown out from San Francisco to Seattle (I often bus down to
Seattle, as it's much cheaper than flying out of Canada). My friends had
come from England to California for two weeks and, as I only had three days
to spend with them, I wanted to make them count. So I flew back just in
time to catch the last bus back to Canada.
Don't ever fly Alaska Airlines!!!
I had an hour and a half between when my plane touched down and when my bus
left. However, my flight was delayed by two hours. Alaska knew this;
didn't tell their passengers a thing as we sat at our gate waiting. I got
to Seattle after my bus rolled away, leaving me with a maxxed credit card
and nowhere to stay. My mom had to fax a Motel 6 with her driver's license
and credit card so that I could stay there at her expense, and I used my
last $10 to taxi there and back. For dinner and breakfast, I feasted on the
Harrods of London cookies that my friends had brought me!
It would have been better for me to stay in San Francisco, where my friends
still had a hotel and I could have had another day with them! Had Alaska
thought to tell me that there was a delay when I checked in, that's just
what I would have done!
lil