Please help me to help my new husband.
newlyweds
son. I get along extremely well with the son and love him like he’s family
to me. My concern is shared with my Mother in law to be, but neither of us
are sure how to tackle it.
My H2B adores his son, but seems to want to be his play mate rather than a
father figure. For example, there is no bed time. School here starts at
7.45, so its early start for all of us. My view (and his Mother’s) is that
a child should be in bed by 9pm at the latest, to be ready for the early
starts each morning. My H2B feels that his son can go to be when ever he
wants to, and then we all suffer the consequences of a very tired and
cranky child by the end of the week. I guess what I am worried about is
just a complete lack of routine. I feel children need routine to feel
secure and they need some discipline to know their boundaries. We seem to
go from having no rules to my H2B being extremely strict for a day or two
after the child misbehaves. I really don’t feel it is the child’s fault,
as he simply gets too tired and then gets cranky.
Please help me on getting my H2B to understand that it good for a child to
have routine and boundaries and that his son will still love and respect
him as a father and a friend. I certainly don’t want to come between
them, but I also think that my H2 should be thinking about having a little
quality time with me each day, which doesn’t happen when our child is
still awake when I am ready to drop!
Vicki Robinson
>Please help me on getting my H2B to understand that it good for a child to
>have routine and boundaries and that his son will still love and respect
>him as a father and a friend. I certainly don’t want to come between
>them, but I also think that my H2 should be thinking about having a little
>quality time with me each day, which doesn’t happen when our child is
>still awake when I am ready to drop!
I always feel bad when posts here include the phrase "help me to get
my DH to understand..." If your H2B has already made his decision,
and if his decision is that his son is not going to have to abide by
rules, then there is nothing you can do to change him. You have to
decide if you can live with it or not.
One card that you do have is to say "I can't live with the lack of
rules. I understand that you don't want them, but understand that I
can't marry you unless we get some basic household rules and routines
established." (The danger here is that you have to mean it; don't
bluff!) See a family counselor, not in "crisis" mode, but for
advice and mediation.
There is nothing I can tell you, though, that's going to change his
mind. He's decided. The only path I can see is counseling for the
purpose of putting together your blended family, and bringing this up
as a serious issue for you.
Vicki
--
Power may be justly compared to a great river; while kept within its
bounds it is both beautiful and useful, but when it overflows its banks,
it is then too impetuous to be stemmed; it bears down all before it,
and brings destruction and desolation wherever it goes." -- Alexander Hamilton.
Tracey
Vicki Robinson wrote:
> In a previous article, "newlyweds" <Nom...@yahoo.com> said:
>
>
>>Please help me on getting my H2B to understand that it good for a child to
>>have routine and boundaries and that his son will still love and respect
>>him as a father and a friend. I certainly don’t want to come between
>>them, but I also think that my H2 should be thinking about having a little
>>quality time with me each day, which doesn’t happen when our child is
>>still awake when I am ready to drop!
>
>
> I always feel bad when posts here include the phrase "help me to get
> my DH to understand..." If your H2B has already made his decision,
> and if his decision is that his son is not going to have to abide by
> rules, then there is nothing you can do to change him. You have to
> decide if you can live with it or not.
>
> One card that you do have is to say "I can't live with the lack of
> rules. I understand that you don't want them, but understand that I
> can't marry you unless we get some basic household rules and routines
> established." (The danger here is that you have to mean it; don't
> bluff!) See a family counselor, not in "crisis" mode, but for
> advice and mediation.
>
> There is nothing I can tell you, though, that's going to change his
> mind. He's decided. The only path I can see is counseling for the
> purpose of putting together your blended family, and bringing this up
> as a serious issue for you.
>
> Vicki
I agree with Vicki. I get the impression from your post that you
are already living in the same house with your soon-to-be-husband.
If that's so, what you need to realize is that what life is like now,
life will be like *forever*. If you are not able to work with your
husband-to-be on making your life livable for you *now*, it's not
going to magically change after the wedding/after you have more kids
with this man/after you have settled in/after you become the
stepmother/after <insert any other event that people want to believe
will cause change>.
There are many reasons, IMO, why young children need a set bedtime,
plenty of sleep, etc., but I've had it made perfectly clear to me
over the past few months that not everyone believes the same as I
do. (New neighbors, long story.) And I'm *trying* to accept that,
if the family is okay with it, then my opinions about it aren't
worth a hill of beans (although I don't think I'll *ever* accept
the negative way they live their life impacts on *my* quality of
life.)
But, it doesn't matter what I think about children and bedtimes.
It's what your husband-to-be believes that matters and him that
you have to deal with. Counseling. Counseling and not marrying
until/unless you two can come to a solution that you both agree
with.
Tracey
lilblakdog
news:2624eab210fa1955...@localhost.talkaboutparenting.com...
> Please help me on getting my H2B to understand that it good for a child to
> have routine and boundaries and that his son will still love and respect
> him as a father and a friend.
As Vicki and Tracy have already said, there isn't anything anybody can say
to make this happen.
My H2B explained very clearly to me that he only saw his child a few
weekends a year, and that he did not intend to use that time disciplining
him. SS was 3 - if you think a proper sleeping pattern is important in an
11 year old, you should share a 1-bedroom apartment with a sleepy 3 year old
for awhile. Luckily, H2B was very co-operative about my taking the
parenting role - after all, it got him off the hook - and so I did that for
nearly six years. Now in my case, I came to realize that irresponsibility
in parenting was just the tip of the iceberg, and soon I was in charge of
nearly every aspect of our lives. H2B became DH became XDH in relatively
short order. We've been apart for six years and I spent the first five
continuing to be a bridge between the two of them, so now we're looking
at...what?...eleven years of futility, before I finally gave up and accepted
that what was was. SS is 15 and XDH still won't be a parent to him.
It's very simple. Your SS is 11, so we're talking about a very deep-rooted
path your H2B is on here. You can't make him change, and trying will be
more painful than just bashing your head against the wall. If he's perfect
in every other way and is agreeable to you taking the more active parenting
role - and if *you* are agreeable to taking the more active parenting role -
then you might be happy with that. But please don't go into this thinking
there's some magical way to change him. There just isn't.
lil
rebecca
"newlyweds" <Nom...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:2624eab210fa1955...@localhost.talkaboutparenting.com...
> son. I get along extremely well with the son and love him like he's family
> to me. My concern is shared with my Mother in law to be, but neither of us
> are sure how to tackle it.
> Please help me on getting my H2B to understand that it good for a child to
> have routine and boundaries and that his son will still love and respect
> him as a father and a friend. I certainly don't want to come between
> them, but I also think that my H2 should be thinking about having a little
> quality time with me each day, which doesn't happen when our child is
> still awake when I am ready to drop!
I guess.. what they said. But. How often do you have this kid? What I
mean is, I wouldn't touch this with someone else's 10-ft-pole if dad has
most of the custody. But if the kid's there every other weekend or less,
and you aren't planning to have children with the guy, their might be ways
to work through this. How long ago did he split with the kid's mom? Are
they cordial? How involved is the kid's mom with him? What does she think
about dad's parenting this way?
*Sometimes* men I know parent this way because they don't know any better,
and given a better example, they straighten up. *Sometimes* they parent
this way because they don't really want to parent. Either way, however much
you love this kid, this is Not. Your. Child. You can't fix this, dad has
to. And bonding with his mother over it isn't likely to do much to motivate
dad to fix himself up.
rebecca
lilblakdog
news:Xns9621BC793...@130.133.1.4...
> Though any person that marries someone with children should remember they
> are only a heartbeat away from full time custody of any minor children
> their spouse may have with someone else.
I couldn't agree more. In addition to what I've already posted, my XDH only
had visitation - one weekend every month or so, a week at spring and
Christmas and a month in the summer. Believe me, even visitations with a
man unwilling to parent will strain the hell out of a marriage.
And last year BM was killed. If XDH and I were still together, I would now
be dealing with this 24/7.
This should *always* be in the possibility file.
lil
rebecca
"lilblakdog" <lilbl...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:qsg0e.761666$Xk.8410@pd7tw3no...
>
> This should *always* be in the possibility file.
Oh, yes and no. In the OP's situation, an 11yo kid, that's 7 years to 18.
If the kid's there a couple weekends a month, I'm not being imposed upon to
parent, I'm not bringing other children into a situation with a guy that
doesn't parent well, and I love the guy, I can find other things to do.
I'll *most likely* make it to the kid's majority without tragedy striking.
I might play those odds, that's all I'm saying. Maybe it doesn't work, but
the death of the other parent is the exception, not the rule.
rebecca
rebecca
"-Calliope-" <calliope...@removegmail.com> wrote in message
news:Xns9622B3186...@130.133.1.4...
> On Wed 23 Mar 2005 01:52:13p, rebecca wrote:
>
>> I'm not bringing other children into a situation with a guy that
>> doesn't parent well,
>
> children with her stbHusband. That may make the possiblity of step-
> parenting less untenable in this situation (visitation, not custody) for
> the OP.
Nah, she didn't say it, I was just saying, if there weren't other children
involved, that might make a difference for me. I think she probably ran
screaming from the building because nobody really gave her a big pep talk
about how husbands change when they really should because their
wives/fiancees/mothers know better.
>
> That said, I would still look at the whole picture.. would I want to be a
> 24/7 parent of an unruly kid for 7 years.
>
> Personally, I can give an unequivocal no on that one, but everyone is
> different and has different breaking points.
Yeah, I know, I'm not sure if I would or not, I was just trying to flip
something out there that wasn't all doom and gloom. Situations like she
described aren't *always* train wrecks. I know a couple of childless women
who manage okay with a lot of non-pressure from their disneyland hubbies.
And I know a couple others whose husbands were just dumbasses who didn't
know any better, and did get a little better when shown how.
That being said, sometimes a dumbass is a dumbass is a dumbass.
(-:
rebecca
Vicki Robinson
>I think she probably ran
>screaming from the building because nobody really gave her a big pep talk
>about how husbands change when they really should because their
>wives/fiancees/mothers know better.
It always makes me sad when people come here to ask questions and when
they don't get reassurance, they leave. There are none so deaf as
those who will not hear, I guess.
However, it's even worse when they come back with "Hey, I thought this
was a *support* group!" Well, hell. What kind of "support" is it to
tell people that things will be just fine, really, all she has to do
is say the magic words and he'll have an epiphany and everyone will
live happily ever after.
I do worry when childless, never-married people hook up with childed,
formerly-married people. It works lots of the time, but it's a tough
transition I think.
rebecca
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:d1suer$mpd$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
>
> However, it's even worse when they come back with "Hey, I thought this
> was a *support* group!" Well, hell. What kind of "support" is it to
> tell people that things will be just fine, really, all she has to do
> is say the magic words and he'll have an epiphany and everyone will
> live happily ever after.
well, it is really mean of us to withhold the magic words until we decide we
like them.
The Watsons
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:tEo0e.2314$gI5...@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> well, it is really mean of us to withhold the magic words until we decide
> we like them.
Oh, bummer.
Jess
lilblakdog
> Oh, yes and no. In the OP's situation, an 11yo kid, that's 7 years to 18.
> If the kid's there a couple weekends a month, I'm not being imposed upon
to > parent, I'm not bringing other children into a situation with a guy
that
> doesn't parent well, and I love the guy, I can find other things to do.
> I'll *most likely* make it to the kid's majority without tragedy striking.
Most likely, yes. But what if you don't? I mean, do you really not have
*any* fall-back plan, in this situation? Seven years is a really long time,
in the grand scheme of things.
I've been posting to this board for just over seven years, so that gives us
a time frame. In that time, at least two of us regulars have experienced
our SK's mothers being killed. What does that bring the odds to? And that
doesn't include the people who inherited their SKs that way before they came
here, which makes up a few others I can think of. Or the people on here
who've had CPs just hand the kids over.
I never thought in a zillion years that Rob would ever get custody of his
son. The idea that BM would get lambasted by a truck was, if anything, only
a fleeting fantasy that crossed my mind during particularly nasty occasions.
In three short weeks, every single one of the rules changed completely.
As a complete aside, getting custody in a worst-case scenario comes with a
whole other mess of things that nobody thinks about. You not only have to
consider that you are getting custody of a child - a child who is not longer
the adorable little weekend bundle you're used to, because he's just lost
the parent he's always counted on most - but you also have to consider what
that does to your marriage. Rob's ex was his childhood sweetheart. He
hadn't loved her in a long time, but he *did* once love her. Her death was
extremely hard for him. And he was expected to put all of that aside and be
there for his son, when he never had been before. Nobody wanted to hear how
he felt - least of all me, who was trying to console his son for him - and I
came closer to hating him over the next several months than I ever had while
we were married. If I actually had to deal with that 24/7, I would have
ended up putting cyanide in his dinner. But that's neither here nor there,
unless you're planning to be the only responsible adult in the marriage. :)
There's nothing wrong with playing odds, so long as you realize that you
*are* only playing the odds. You really need to appreciate that a certain
percentage of the time, the most unexpected of your expectations may just
happen. And that's when things can get uglier than you ever dreamed.
lil (who's going to find something cheerful to do now, like make a nice
meatloaf!)
lilblakdog
news:d1suer$mpd$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> I do worry when childless, never-married people hook up with childed,
> formerly-married people. It works lots of the time, but it's a tough
> transition I think.
I have to believe that it's easier, though, when the childed,
formerly-married person isn't always dismissing you with statements like,
"You don't understand, because you're childless and never-married."
Not that that was my problem, but I've seen that kill a relationship faster
than anything. I mean, they don't come much more childless and
never-married than I was, but I did pretty well (albeit better at parenting
than marriage). I imagine it's much simpler to ease into a hot tub without
an alligator waiting to bite you in the ass. :)
lil
newlyweds
SS livs with us for one week and him Mum for the other. There is even less
discipline in his mothers house as she takes the attitude of 'He's only
with me for a week so i can't fall out with him'
In my opinion, one week here and one week there is not good for SS, but
this is the way his parents want it. His BM is re married with a little
girl.
The split was more than 4 years ago, so SS witnessed lots of fights and a
bad atmosphere for the year prior to that.... I guess that didn't help him
when he was just 6, but the wounds from that are certainly healing and he
is generally a happy child now.
Little by little my H2B recognises that this lack of discipline does back
fire on him. When SS gets tired, he is rude and badly behaved towards my
H2B, which does upset him. i quietly point out that if SS had more of a
routine, he would get less tired and less crancy. Sometimes the message
sinks in!
newlyweds
enough discipline and that things would be very different when (i hope) we
have our own family. We do agree on the fundimentals of bringing up
children so i dont think we have any 'show stoppers' here.
What is sad is that H2B feels its too late with SS. He's set in his ways
and he is only with us every other week. He says 'I cant inforce rules
that are not in the other house' Which is partly true, I guess.
newlyweds
>they don't get reassurance, they leave. There >are none so deaf as
>those who will not hear, I guess.
>However, it's even worse when they come back >with "Hey, I thought this
>was a *support* group!" Well, hell. What kind >of "support" is it to
>tell people that things will be just fine, >really, all she has to do
>is say the magic words and he'll have an >epiphany and everyone will
>live happily ever after.
Hey, I am still very much here and gaining a lot of value from your
thoughts and comments. Even my own mother has asked me to think long and
hard about the situation I am getting in to before I make this commitment.
That I have done and still want to marry him.
I never expected a flood of responses telling me 'Oh it will all change
once you are married' i am not stupid and I know that won't happen.
My biggest concern was that its not just me that feels that children need
some routine. Sometimes i feel that my only experience in bringing up
children is from being a child myself, so its re assuring to know that
many of you support my views. Bit by bit the situation with SS improves. I
have no doubt I have may tough years ahead of me, but who doesn't? Should
I run away and leave this man? No, I feel not. Why throw away the love of
my life just because I can see some up hill struggles in my path.
Forewarned is forearmed right?
DrLith
> formerly-married people. It works lots of the time, but it's a tough
> transition I think.
Maybe some of that's because you're more likely to hear from the ones with
disaster stories? My fiance is never-married (in fact, he had relatively
little "serious relationship" experience) and childless. Yet he is a
fantastic partner to me, and I couldn't ask for a better future-stepdad for
my kids. He's da bomb. And heads and shoulders above my previous partner,
who had too much marriage experience and all kinds of bad parenting habits
acquired in the process of raising his own kids.
DrLith
> Little by little my H2B recognises that this lack of discipline does back
> fire on him. When SS gets tired, he is rude and badly behaved towards my
> H2B, which does upset him. i quietly point out that if SS had more of a
> routine, he would get less tired and less crancy. Sometimes the message
> sinks in!
Everyone else is right in that there's no magic bullet that will make him
wake up and see the light; are you prepared for the possibility that he'll
never change his parenting ways?
That said, *how* you present your concerns can make a difference in how they
are received by the other person. People (even parents) are basically
selfish, and are more likely to make changes if they see it will benefit
them. They're also more likely to see the logic in things if they are
discussed outside of the heat of battle. When his son is being rude and
hurtful to your fiance, he is probably too engaged with that feeling to be
able to do much with your suggestions about parenting strategies. It might
make more sense to work together to address some issues on his weeks off.
There are some good parenting books out there, and you may find it helpful
to read through some of them together. (But remember that it's relatively
easy to have the "a-ha" moment when reading something, and much much more
difficult to divest oneself of ones old, counterproductive but deepseated
bad parenting habits.) I'm getting a lot out of "Loving your Child is Not
Enough" by Nancy Samalin, and "Setting Limits: How to Raise Responsible,
Independent Children by Providing Clear Boundaries " by Robert MacKenzie.
Perhaps your fiance will take it less as a criticism of his abilities if he
recognizes the problems and solutions from an independent party, so to
speak.
Parenting is hard work, and some people find it more difficult than others.
I might compare it to keeping the house tidy. Everyone has different
standards about what constitutes "clean," and some people find it relatively
natural and easy to adopt good housecleaning habits and routines, other
people find it much more of a struggle. To the naturally tidy person, it
just makes good sense that investing a few minutes each day into
straightening up and spot cleaning will save much of the headache and hassle
of the periodic "deep clean," as well as creating a mentally healthy and
restful environment. For the person who struggles with cleaning, it seems
easier to put things off for now, but then they have to face a periodic
all-day cleaning barrage if they want the house to be liveable (and some
people even give up on that).
In the same way, putting off the small acts of discipline may seem like the
course of least resistance to your fiance, and you will not have an easy
time of convincing him that a little effort expended in discipline and
limits today will ward off huge headaches of disrespect and rebellion in
later years.
rebecca
> Particularly if you plan on having children
> with him. I would imagine he will probably parent any new children in
> similar fashion as he parents this one, since that is what he knows.
Yep, I would consider this a reasonably true statement. Adjusted for each
child's age and the dad's familiarity with the kid, that is.
rebecca
lilblakdog
> I
> have no doubt I have may tough years ahead of me, but who doesn't? Should
> I run away and leave this man?
Oh, jeez, no...so long as you understand there's a very good chance this
will never change. And - contrary to what he says - there's a very good
chance he won't know how to raise your own children any differently than he
does his son. For some people, that's not a problem. My mother was married
to my father until death, but still raised us single-handedly. So it
certainly works in many, many cases, so long as you make that informed
choice.
Me, I figure God knew what he was doing when he made child creation a
two-person job - I don't think that anybody can be everything to a child.
I'm great with discipline and guidance; I suck with the touchy-feelly stuff.
And I couldn't hit a baseball with a tree trunk. In my mind, I don't mind
doing my part alone, so long as my partner takes up the slack and does his
bit.
But it only works if there's support going both ways. Somebody's going to
need to lay some ground rules for your future SS or this stands a *really*
good chance of ballooning out of control. Eleven is not too late. Fifteen
will be. And whatever you might think, you don't need a fifteen year old
boy ruling the roost - especially if you're planning to have younger
children around.
A different set of rules for each house is entirely possible. You've got
him 50% of the time...that makes it easier than it is for most. When Rob
and I got married, we had SS 15% of the time...and we had very different
rules in our house than BM did. Children are delightfully adaptable. It's
actually excruciatingly rare for the parents to have the same rules in each
household - it's just not realistic. So long as you stand firm as to what
you will accept in your home, the child will work it out.
lil
Wendy T
Sorry, but every household can have different rules. My ex and I co-parent,
with the girls living 50% of the week with him and 50% with my partner and
I.
I think a week on week off arrangement would be better, because I never see
them for a protracted period, unless I take them on holiday. That aside,
I'm a lot stricter than their father in some ways, and a lot more relaxed in
others. The girls cope very well with different expectations in different
households.
However, I do think I've learned over time that parents should stand
together on issues. My partner and I sometimes see things differently, but
we try to support each other when it comes to the children. My ex and I are
very different in some ways and very similar in others. I think sharing
thoughts abut parenting is harder with someone you don't live with, but you
can do it. My ex and I talk on the phone a lot about how we will tackle a
particular situation.
Wendy
Wendy T
> Forewarned is forearmed right?
Yes, and no. I joined this group because I thought that anticipating issues
and problems would help me to mitigate them, but there are always problems
you can't anticipate, or you can't anticipate how different people will
react to them. It's still worth trying to think in advance, though.
I love my partner more now than ever, and I think he's incredibly good with
my children and I'm so glad they get along so well. However, there have
been moments when I think back to jane's posts when my partner and I were
living separately and planning our future and I now understand much better
what she was saying . I've even had moments when I've thought if it's this
difficult with someone as great as Barclay, what could it be like.
The most important element for us is that Barclay supports me in my
parenting. He doesn't try to be a third parent. I accept that this may be
different when step children are very young and you are getting involved at
such an impressionable age, but my girls were about 8 and 12 when we first
got together and by the time he moved in 12 and 16.
Supporting me as a parent doesn't mean he suppresses his opinions, just that
he defers to me to do the parenting.
My advice would always be suggest, discuss, be a sounding board and shoulder
to cry on and an aid to calm and perspective, but at all times ensure that
your husband does the follow through.
Wendy
lilblakdog
news:d20p7m$vb$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
> My advice would always be suggest, discuss, be a sounding board and
shoulder
> to cry on and an aid to calm and perspective, but at all times ensure that
> your husband does the follow through.
Ewwwwwwww...but, Wendy, you're coming at this from the point of view of a
parent who actually does what they're supposed to. Barclay talks with you,
you discuss things, then you do the actual parenting bit that necessary,
right?
The first weekend SS came to stay with us, Rob watched TV. He didn't take
SS to the park. He didn't have any toys, or art supplies, or anything to
keep him busy. He didn't put him down for a nap. He didn't stop him from
playing with my grandmother's Wade china pigs before one was broken - and he
didn't notice that until I came home and had a fit. I offered and suggested
and encouraged and then waited. Rob watched TV. By the end of the weekend,
there were two of us cranky and over-tired.
For over a *year*, I cooked, I cleaned, I bought...Rob played. I was known
as "the big girl" and was not acknowledged in any way unless I dared to hold
hands with his father or - God forbid - kiss his father. He wasn't made to
thank me for gifts. He wasn't made to say hello or goodbye when he was with
us. He wasn't made to acknowledge me in any way. Any time I suggested that
a visitation wasn't on my wish-list for a particular weekend, I got, "You're
not going to tell me when I can and can't see my son."
I told Rob how I felt and waited for him to parent. His response was,
"You're the adult; you tell <SS> what he's supposed to do," but I didn't
think that was my place. Visitations were completely out of my control - I
basically gave up my apartment for the weekend, and then cleaned up after it
was over. And I didn't have to clean up, right? Tried that...I lived in
filth for days and days until I couldn't stand it any longer. I logged in
hours locked in my tiny bathroom, because it was the only place where I
could be alone.
I'm not making any assumptions about how much newlyweds' fiancé does, but
there are people out there who are simply incapable of doing what is
necessary. Sometimes, for the sake of your own sanity, your choices become
to parent or end the marriage. And if the BP is amenable to that, well...it
can actually work quite well.
lil
rebecca
"Wendy T" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:d20p7m$vb$1...@news8.svr.pol.co.uk...
>
> news:a1ba22ae5b16ac6a...@localhost.talkaboutparenting.com...
>
>> Forewarned is forearmed right?
>
> Yes, and no. I joined this group because I thought that anticipating
> issues and problems would help me to mitigate them, but there are always
> problems you can't anticipate, or you can't anticipate how different
> people will react to them. It's still worth trying to think in advance,
> though.
Oh, didn't see this before. Forewarned is... well... slightly sort of aware
that stuff you won't like and can't do anything about might happen. VASTLY
different than getting smacked in the face with peanut butter all over your
new first edition of something, or a child offhandedly blowing you off on
something you care about, and said child's parent completely not saying a
word. Different from coming home to find that BM is now stapling her nasty
notes to your door because she's not getting a good enough reaction by
faxing them. Different in all kinds of ways.
The reality is so much harder than the early thinking through of what might
happen. In fact, for me, the hardest bit is that the problems are so
chronic, the same things that pissed me off 5 years ago are still happening.
I can't change them, I can only adjust how I react. And that's a really
hard lesson that takes a long time to learn - the problems you see right now
will not go away. You will have to learn to manage them. Through your
involvement, they may get worse, they may improve, they may stay exactly the
same no matter what you do.
So I guess my advice is if something's going on that you can't live with
living with for at least 8 years, then you need to rethink what you're doing
here.
rebecca
rebecca
rebecca
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:HP_0e.4460$H06....@newsread3.news.pas.earthlink.net...
Cornhuskeress
If this "love of your life" doesn't work out, there is probably another
person out there who would work out as well or better. I don't believe
there is only one person in the world any individual can be happy with.
~~Geri~~
(Sanctimonious Cornhusker Beeyotch)
"But clearly ... genius has turned to madness."
Cornhuskeress
>> A different set of rules for each house is entirely possible. You've
> got him 50% of the time...that makes it easier than it is for most.
> When Rob and I got married, we had SS 15% of the time...and we had
> very different rules in our house than BM did. Children are
> delightfully adaptable. It's actually excruciatingly rare for the
> parents to have the same rules in each household - it's just not
> realistic. So long as you stand firm as to what you will accept in
> your home, the child will work it out.
>
Vicki Robinson
>see Vicki? Anne? Heather? Melissa? I do listen.
>
>rebecca
We never doubted it, Dear.
Cornhuskeress
We have been doing the week on/week off custody schedule with my SD since
she was 3 and now she is 10. She not only adapted to it, but she gets upset
if there is any inkling that that might change. The bioparents detest each
other and that hasn't changed (in fact, BM seems to be in another
bad-behavior phase and another trip to court is looking more likely).
The thing is SD has pretty much adjusted to all of this, including the
stricter parenting at our house (where she also receives more positive
attention from us) and the more lassez-faire style her mother has.. In
fact, one of her counselors told Brian and if BM and we miraculously started
getting along, it would probably throw SD for a major loop, because she is
used to the situation as it is.
Cornhuskeress
That is an excuse. You can enforce any rules you want at your house. We
have vastly different rules at our house that BM has at her house (as in, we
actuallly have rules). We very definitely enforce them at our house. Now,
we can't make BM adopt our parenting system, nor do we try, but that doesn't
stop us from using it absolutely (and successfully) at our own home.
Vicki Robinson
>That is an excuse. You can enforce any rules you want at your house. We
>have vastly different rules at our house that BM has at her house (as in, we
>actuallly have rules). We very definitely enforce them at our house. Now,
>we can't make BM adopt our parenting system, nor do we try, but that doesn't
>stop us from using it absolutely (and successfully) at our own home.
OK, but this is not an apples-to-apples comparision. If your SD had
been 11 when you entered the picture, and if Brian had been a
hands-off parent all those years (and told you that that's just the
way it was), do you think things would be as successful as they have
been?
I think you might have been outta there within a year.
lilblakdog
news:N1%0e.15444$C47....@newssvr14.news.prodigy.com...
> We
> have vastly different rules at our house that BM has at her house (as in,
we
> actuallly have rules).
<SNORT!!!>
Uh, yeah...that was really what I was trying to say about us.
lil
Cornhuskeress
> In a previous article, "Cornhuskeress"
> <cahusk...@sbcglobalGOBIGRED.net> said:
>
>> That is an excuse. You can enforce any rules you want at your
>> house. We have vastly different rules at our house that BM has at
>> her house (as in, we actuallly have rules). We very definitely
>> enforce them at our house. Now, we can't make BM adopt our
>> parenting system, nor do we try, but that doesn't stop us from using
>> it absolutely (and successfully) at our own home.
>
> OK, but this is not an apples-to-apples comparision. If your SD had
> been 11 when you entered the picture, and if Brian had been a
> hands-off parent all those years (and told you that that's just the
> way it was), do you think things would be as successful as they have
> been?
>
> I think you might have been outta there within a year.
>
> Vicki
Actually, I would have never gotten into it under that scenario. But I do
not think it is impossible for dad to implement and enforce rules at his
house. The kid might rebel at first, considering that dad has not
previously done so, but I think it absolutely can be done and be successful,
and as someone else pointed out - better now than when the kid is fifteen.
rebecca
"Cornhuskeress" <cahusk...@sbcglobalGOBIGRED.net> wrote in message
>
> Actually, I would have never gotten into it under that scenario. But I do
> not think it is impossible for dad to implement and enforce rules at his
> house. The kid might rebel at first, considering that dad has not
> previously done so, but I think it absolutely can be done and be
> successful, and as someone else pointed out - better now than when the kid
> is fifteen.
>
Right, but that's the point, the OP was saying dad was good with the way
things were. Then she said he's "slowly getting the idea" that rules are
good. Which is certainly possible, or it could be the old
honeymoon-phase-humor-the-woman-until-it's-too-late-for-her-to-escape-and-then-revert
switcheroo.
rebecca
Joy
"Cornhuskeress" <cahusk...@sbcglobalGOBIGRED.net> wrote in message
news:6411e.2640$zl....@newssvr13.news.prodigy.com...
Try picturing the kid at age 16, when they can drive your car.
lilblakdog
> Right, but that's the point, the OP was saying dad was good with the way
> things were.
Well, not really. She said that things are the way they are, and dad's
excuse for not changing them is that it would be too difficult. That's not
a definite no. As I said, Rob was unwilling to create rules in our home,
but he was perfectly willing to go along with mine, once I proved that they
would work.
But yes, the mindset has to be there to work with, or you'll never get
anywhere with either parent or child.
lil
Wendy T
"lilblakdog" <lilbl...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
news:xuX0e.787137$8l.270510@pd7tw1no...
> Ewwwwwwww...but, Wendy, you're coming at this from the point of view of a
> parent who actually does what they're supposed to. Barclay talks with
> you,
> you discuss things, then you do the actual parenting bit that necessary,
> right?
It wouldn't work any other way. My girls would have rejected Barclay at the
outset if he'd suddenly walked in with new rules, his rules, for our house.
Sure, I parent, but that doesn't mean that I don't have problems, or always
parent the way that Barclay would.
> The first weekend SS came to stay with us, Rob watched TV. He didn't take
> SS to the park. He didn't have any toys, or art supplies, or anything to
> keep him busy. He didn't put him down for a nap. He didn't stop him from
> playing with my grandmother's Wade china pigs before one was broken - and
> he
> didn't notice that until I came home and had a fit. I offered and
> suggested
> and encouraged and then waited. Rob watched TV. By the end of the
> weekend,
> there were two of us cranky and over-tired.
Okay, but what did he learn from the experience - that you would get cross
or do it for him, or that his son needed him and he needed to be there to
guide his son.
> For over a *year*, I cooked, I cleaned, I bought...Rob played. I was
> known
> as "the big girl" and was not acknowledged in any way unless I dared to
> hold
> hands with his father or - God forbid - kiss his father. He wasn't made
> to
> thank me for gifts. He wasn't made to say hello or goodbye when he was
> with
> us. He wasn't made to acknowledge me in any way. Any time I suggested
> that
> a visitation wasn't on my wish-list for a particular weekend, I got,
> "You're
> not going to tell me when I can and can't see my son."
I'd delve a little deeper there too. I've very rarely had to tell my child
to say hello, goodbye, please, or thank you. They do it because I do it, at
least at a young age, and at an older age they are concerned that others
think of them as polite and nice to be around.
> I told Rob how I felt and waited for him to parent. His response was,
> "You're the adult; you tell <SS> what he's supposed to do," but I didn't
> think that was my place. Visitations were completely out of my control -
> I
> basically gave up my apartment for the weekend, and then cleaned up after
> it
> was over. And I didn't have to clean up, right? Tried that...I lived in
> filth for days and days until I couldn't stand it any longer. I logged in
> hours locked in my tiny bathroom, because it was the only place where I
> could be alone.
It doesn't sound like Rob would have lifted a finger even if his child
hadn't been around to make a mess. Did he tidy up when it was just the two
of you?
Why would he be one way one weekend and another way the next?
> I'm not making any assumptions about how much newlyweds' fiancé does, but
> there are people out there who are simply incapable of doing what is
> necessary. Sometimes, for the sake of your own sanity, your choices
> become
> to parent or end the marriage. And if the BP is amenable to that,
> well...it
> can actually work quite well.
As I said, if step children are very young, then you may be able to play a
more active role. Personally, I think that by doing it for someone they
will never learn to do it themselves. I think that applies to adults, as
much as to children.
Wendy
lilblakdog
> Okay, but what did he learn from the experience - that you would get cross
> or do it for him, or that his son needed him and he needed to be there to
> guide his son.
From the experience of that weekend, do you mean? He didn't learn anything.
And I didn't do anything for him, other than putting my Wade pigs away for
the next six years. I sat back and allowed weekends exactly like that to
continue for the next four years. Except that as SS got older, he got more
beligerant with me, more clingy with Rob, ate more, made more mess, took up
more time, more space, etc.
If you mean overall, from the experience of our marriage, again he didn't
learn anything. I mean, I don't see that he had anything *to* learn. Rob's
always known that he needs to be there for his son more than he is, the same
way he knew he needed to be there for me more than he was. He was, and is,
completely incapable of both. That's why he's single and another man is
raising his child.
> I'd delve a little deeper there too. I've very rarely had to tell my
child
> to say hello, goodbye, please, or thank you. They do it because I do it,
at
> least at a young age, and at an older age they are concerned that others
> think of them as polite and nice to be around.
Again, that's because you showed them by example. Now we're talking apples
and oranges. As near as I can tell, BM taught SS how to walk, and that was
one more thing that Rob taught him. When I got him, the only talking he did
was what he repeated off television - mostly The Simpsons. He wasn't toilet
trained and he couldn't do anything for himself. Four years later, nothing
had changed. BM had sheltered him from everybody but herself, and had
managed to raise him with absolute zero responsibility and self-reliance.
As a result, he had no ability to think beyond exactly as he'd like to do.
For example, every morning he'd wake up, get out of bed, and start playing
with his toys - which he would do without a peep until bedtime, if we let
him. When he needed to go to the bathroom, he'd do it in his diaper. Never
had to stop playing, and somebody would be around eventually to clean him
up. Because he'd grown up like this, and had no exposure to other children,
it was all he ever knew and never seemed odd to him. And he was *seven*
years old.
You say later that doing things for the other parent means they'll never
learn to do it themselves. I waited four years for one of them to parent
SS...seven years into their parenting sojourn. For SS's sake and my own
sanity, I decided to take a stand on certain issues that were no longer
acceptable to me. Like putting out what was now our money for diapers for a
seven-year-old. And allowing him to throw hysterical tantrums that went on
all day, over minor issues. And having to go to bed at nine o'clock so he
could sleep on the couch...or else give up my bedroom and *I* could sleep on
the couch. And the 48-hour television marathons. These were all things
that didn't concern Rob...or didn't concern him enough that he wanted to
change them. So I did, for the next two years. Then I left Rob to it
again. Six years later, everything is exactly as it was when Rob first
moved in with me - Rob is living in his parents' basement and sees SS a few
weekends a year; a little more during the holidays. Only now BM is dead and
SF's raising SS and trying to deal with Rob. I don't think anything I did
was responsible for all that.
Shooting out sperm or pushing out babies does not make one a parent. There
are simply people in this world who are incapable, for whatever reason, of
putting out the effort required to raise a functioning child. BM wanted a
baby, someone who would never leave her, and a bargaining chip to keep Rob
connected to her. I have no doubt that she had Munchausen by Proxy. Rob
grew up in a family that continues to be so dysfunctional and cruel that he
has no concept of how to support someone emotionally, and cannot bring
himself to be at all vulnerable. There's a switch inside him that's just
not on - it's like being paralyzed. He can voice everything he knows his
needs and wants to do, but that's where it all stops. As unhappy as he is
with every aspect of his life, he cannot take the necessary steps to improve
things - be it finding a new job, renting a home, buying a car, taking over
custody of his son, etc. And so now together, the two of them have managed
to raise an offspring that's more lab rat than functioning being. I was two
years older than SS when I graduated highschool, got a full-time office job,
and left home. Rob won't leave him home alone.
SF did no parenting whatsoever and BM never got better. Rob's done his own
parenting for thirteen years, I tried to help for two, and he's never gotten
any better. Sometimes people just don't have a clue.
> It doesn't sound like Rob would have lifted a finger even if his child
> hadn't been around to make a mess. Did he tidy up when it was just the
two
> of you?
> Why would he be one way one weekend and another way the next?
Well, my short answer would be because some people spaz right out when
dealing with a child they have no idea what to do with. Rob-my-boyfriend
was almost unrecognizeable to me as Rob-the-father.
That being said, sure Rob cleaned when it was just the two of us. Not as
often as I did, but enough that I was more girlfriend than maid. He cleaned
the same way he did everything - when he wanted to. If I left the apartment
for the day, on pleasant terms, quite often I'd come home to find it clean.
He balked at the idea of being *asked* to clean. And he saw having to clean
up after his son a condition of visitation - which was the same as saying
that SS couldn't come over at all, and was always met with mutiny.
It was also convenient for him that SS lived several hours away. Hurricane
SS would hit Friday afternoon, tear through the apartment all day Saturday,
and then disappear late Sunday morning...Rob along with him. Rob would get
back late Sunday night, which was too late to clean, and now we were both
back at work for the week. My choice was to go all week with the livingroom
a mess, Kraft Dinner crusted onto the tablecloth, sweaty sheets on the bed,
and toothpaste spit on the bathroom tap, and *maybe* Rob would clean it up
the following weekend, or suck it up and use my Sunday to do it.
I made a go of the former, but tell me honestly...would you? Because you're
a better man than I am if you could let your home look like that until your
partner got off his butt and cleaned it up.
I ended up doing as I did because my other choices were to allow a small
child to destroy my homelife, or to leave my marriage. There are cases
where that's all you've got. At the time, neither of those were palatable
options.
lil
Wendy T
"lilblakdog" <lilbl...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> I made a go of the former, but tell me honestly...would you? Because
> you're
> a better man than I am if you could let your home look like that until
> your
> partner got off his butt and cleaned it up.
I'm sorry, lil, but I can't comprehend why you would stay in a relationship
with someone like this. Doing it for him helped his son, and meant you
didn't have to live in mess, but in my view there is a huge difference
between being incapable and being unwilling to try.
I cooked a roast beef and yorkshire pudding for Easter yesterday. Roast
meals always make such a lot of dishes. I told the girls who arrived home
at 4.30 pm and enjoyed the meal that they were doing the dishes. They still
aren't done, and I'm itching to clean up my kitchen, but there is no way
that I'm doing them or that anyone is cooking any more meals in there until
they are done. I may even wake them up to remind them, as my older daughter
has to be at work at 1.30.
Wendy
lilblakdog
> I'm sorry, lil, but I can't comprehend why you would stay in a
relationship
> with someone like this.
Well, I'm not anymore. And why I stayed in it has embarrassingly little to
do with Rob or SS or lurrrrrv or anything like that, I'm afraid.
I'm not good at giving up. Giving up means that I didn't win, and I have
issues with that. Also, when I first broke off our engagement, my
Barbie-doll-cousin's father - my uncle - announced that I must lack passion.
My Barbie-doll-cousin is in a perfect marriage with three beautiful
children. Hell, if she could do it, I could...even if it killed me.
It took two and a half years of frustration before I looked around and
wondered, "Who among us is winning, exactly?"
> I cooked a roast beef and yorkshire pudding for Easter yesterday. Roast
> meals always make such a lot of dishes. I told the girls who arrived home
> at 4.30 pm and enjoyed the meal that they were doing the dishes. They
still
> aren't done, and I'm itching to clean up my kitchen, but there is no way
> that I'm doing them or that anyone is cooking any more meals in there
until
> they are done. I may even wake them up to remind them, as my older
daughter
> has to be at work at 1.30.
<grin>
Now see, dishes I would gladly leave for someone else. They were my chore,
when I was a teenager, and I'd rather do just about anything - including
cleaning the bathroom - than wash dishes.
So how'd it turn out? Are they done?
lil
Wendy T
"lilblakdog" <lilbl...@NOSPAMhotmail.com> wrote in message
> I'm not good at giving up. Giving up means that I didn't win, and I have
> issues with that.
Who is good at giving up?
> <grin>
>
> Now see, dishes I would gladly leave for someone else. They were my
> chore,
> when I was a teenager, and I'd rather do just about anything - including
> cleaning the bathroom - than wash dishes.
>
> So how'd it turn out? Are they done?
Yes, Madi did half of them when she got up and Louise did the other half
eventually. The roasting pan was left soaking and I finished that this
morning as I went out last night with friends for supper.
Wendy