Introducing New Partners
Nathalie
Hi,
I've been reading the postings on this newsgroup for a little while now, and
I was wondering if anyone could help me...
I've been seeing a lovely man for a few months now who has been separated
from his wife for well over a year now, and has a three year old son. He
sees his son almost all weekends, and a couple of months ago, he started
introducing me to his son at weekends too. I visit them for one of the
afternoons at the weekend, and recently have also stayed for tea and the
evenings too (but not yet staying overnight).
My SO's son and I are getting on very well; he gets excited whenever I come
to visit. The question I (we) have is how should we best go about preparing
his son for me staying overnight sometime in the near future? We of course
don't want him to feel threatened in any way; in fact we want him to feel
excited and happy about this.
Is there anyone out there who has been through this, especially with a child
so young? I would appreciate any help.
Thanks,
Nathalie
SoccerStepMom
Nathalie -
Congratulations on your new relationship; as a stepmom whose "steps"
were 3 and 6 when I entered their lives, I can tell you that if you
truly want to love and care for your bf's son, he is young enough that
you can build that bond (apparently a lot easier than if you come around
when they are preadolescent or later).
Now for the hard part: I do not think you should sleep over in the
child's presence until you are married. He is young enough now that he
probably wouldn't think anything about it one way or the other. But his
mother would. And I can pretty much assure you that even if she has no
problem with his moving on to another relationship before they are even
divorced (you mentioned he is separated, did you not?), there will come
a day when things are not completely cordial between them. Your
involvement with "her baby" may even spark jealousy she didn't know she
had; it did with my sister and my husband's ex.
By exposing the child to adulterous behavior (which in the cold light of
day, it is), you are giving her ammunition to use against your bf in
divorce and custody matters. Some of the other women here can attest to
how viciously a jealous biomom can use any such information - by
refusing visitation or just poisoning the kid's mind.
Also, there is the question of what moral lessons your bf wants to teach
his son. My husband and I were very clear that we did not want the boys
to think that sleeping together before marriage was OK, even though we
were in a committed relationship. We confined our sleepovers to nights
when they were with their Mom. This was very tough, especially since he
ended up winning custody of them, and so they were pretty much always
around. But we were clear about what was right. And now I am very glad
we chose that path.
Glad to talk further. Good luck. SSM
Vicki Robinson
In a previous article, SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> said:
>
>Now for the hard part: I do not think you should sleep over in the
>child's presence until you are married.
>
I agree. I have no experience with vindictive ex-wives (all of the
wives-in-law that I've had have been reasonably pleasant to me, even when
they weren't to their ex-husbands), but for the same reasons SSM gives below.
>Also, there is the question of what moral lessons your bf wants to teach
>his son. My husband and I were very clear that we did not want the boys
>to think that sleeping together before marriage was OK, even though we
>were in a committed relationship. We confined our sleepovers to nights
>when they were with their Mom. This was very tough, especially since he
>ended up winning custody of them, and so they were pretty much always
>around. But we were clear about what was right. And now I am very glad
>we chose that path.
This seems, on the surface, to be hypocritical, and I want to add my voice to
SSM's before anyone jumps in. To tell kids that sex before marriage is wrong
while indulging in it oneself seems wrong, and I suppose that one could make
that claim. However, there's a lot of difference between two adults in a
committed relationship sharing sexual intimacy, and two teenagers who are
inluv 4ever doing so, but your kids aren't going to see it that way.
Children are masters of reductionist understanding. "Dad slept with *his*
girlfriends" translates into "So it's ok for me to have a revolving door on my
room when I'm 16!" very easily for a kid! Try to tell them that a couple in
their thirties with jobs and homes can cope with an unexpected pregnancy
better than a 16 year-old, and see how seriously they take you.
I know, I'm talking about teenagers, but this kind of training starts early.
Kids learn as they grow. Three years old is not too young to teach them the
basics of sexual responsibility through your own behavior.
My husband moved into our house when we had been engaged for 6 months, about
a year before our wedding. I talked it over with my children, pointing out
that I was 43, had completed my education and that a child would not destroy
my life. I also discussed with them the fact that there are things that a
mature adult can do that teenagers can't do, and it's not a matter of fair,
it's a matter of maturity and ability to handle consequences. I also pointed
out to them that he wouldn't be moving in if we hadn't had a ring and a date;
we were formally committed and we did indeed get married, right on schedule.
I think you enhance your position in your SO's son's life if you don't stay
over at least until you become formally engaged.
Vicki
--
Vicki Robinson
<blink><a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/binky.html">BINKY!</a></blink>
Visit my home page at <a href="http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts"> Vicki's Home Page
</a> and sign my guest book. Millions have!
SoccerStepMom
Vicki Robinson wrote:
>
> In a previous article, SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> said:
>
> >
> >Now for the hard part: I do not think you should sleep over in the
> >child's presence until you are married.
> >
> I agree. I have no experience with vindictive ex-wives (all of the
> wives-in-law that I've had have been reasonably pleasant to me, even when
> they weren't to their ex-husbands), but for the same reasons SSM gives below.
>
> >Also, there is the question of what moral lessons your bf wants to teach
> >his son. My husband and I were very clear that we did not want the boys
> >to think that sleeping together before marriage was OK, even though we
> >were in a committed relationship. We confined our sleepovers to nights
> >when they were with their Mom. This was very tough, especially since he
> >ended up winning custody of them, and so they were pretty much always
> >around. But we were clear about what was right. And now I am very glad
> >we chose that path.
>
> This seems, on the surface, to be hypocritical, and I want to add my voice to
> SSM's before anyone jumps in.
Thanks, Vicki. I meant to put in a note that we recognized the
hypocrisy and it bugged us, but we justified it to ourselves in the way
that Vicki described. I have thought about it, and when the boys are
older, I would probably be okay with telling them "the rest of the
story" if they asked... SSM
lilblakdog
Vicki Robinson <vic...@panix.com> wrote in article
<6il4ud$m...@panix2.panix.com>...
> This seems, on the surface, to be hypocritical, and I want to add my
voice to
> SSM's before anyone jumps in.
Actually, I caught that too and chose not to say anything, but you put it
all quite nicely.
I have a lot of respect for SSM and have enjoyed her advice to others and
knew that she probably just phrased that badly!
lil
FallMorn
<<<The question I (we) have is how should we best go about preparing his son
for me staying overnight sometime in the near future? We of course don't want
him to feel threatened in any way; in fact we want him to feel excited and
happy about this.>>>
Nathlie,
You won't like this, but IMO it's not a good thing for any child. I'm no
prude, & have lived a fairly "interesting" life. But I draw the line at
exposing my child to my own behaviors which, in 10 or 12 years, I'll need the
moral authority to forbid (or at least discourage) for him. We have all
forgotten how important it is to live by example, and it's all too true:
Children pay attention to what we do, not what we say. No moralizing here,
just looking to the future. Sometimes we, as adults, must forego some of our
pleasures in the interest of raising morally stong, responsible children.
Janice
Dylan's Mom
Nathalie,
Congrats on winning your way into his heart. IMO I would not recommend you
spending the night when the boy is there. It is hard enough to have your
parents split, but allow the boy to keep some of that overnight time with
his dad. I'm sure you have plenty of nights when the boy isn't around that
you can stay over. I think it would be something really special if you and
his dad kept up a more proper relationship in front of him for now. I can
almost guarantee that if his mother heard of the 3 of you spending cozy
nights together she would try to make some trouble. Take care.
--
Teri....@Compaqnospam.com
Nathalie <Nath...@crags.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<894297177.15818.0...@news.demon.co.uk>...
> Hi,
> I've been reading the postings on this newsgroup for a little while now,
and
> I was wondering if anyone could help me...
> I've been seeing a lovely man for a few months now who has been separated
> from his wife for well over a year now, and has a three year old son. He
> sees his son almost all weekends, and a couple of months ago, he started
> introducing me to his son at weekends too. I visit them for one of the
> afternoons at the weekend, and recently have also stayed for tea and the
> evenings too (but not yet staying overnight).
>
> My SO's son and I are getting on very well; he gets excited whenever I
come
> to visit. The question I (we) have is how should we best go about
preparing
> his son for me staying overnight sometime in the near future? We of
course
> don't want him to feel threatened in any way; in fact we want him to feel
> excited and happy about this.
>
Dylan's Mom
Hey SSM,
(Sound of me clapping). Thanks for standing up and speaking up for a moral
principal such as you did. I know I didn't lead the most pious life but I
sure want to set an example for my kids so that they might do better than I
did. DH and I did live together before we got married and my stepdaughter
was exposed to us sleeping together w/o benefit of marriage. She was 4
when we got married - I know she knows how I feel now, but I wonder if she
will think me a hypocrite later?
--
Teri....@Compaqnospam.com
SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> wrote in article
<354E03...@hotmail.com>...
> Nathalie -
>
> Congratulations on your new relationship; as a stepmom whose "steps"
> were 3 and 6 when I entered their lives, I can tell you that if you
> truly want to love and care for your bf's son, he is young enough that
> you can build that bond (apparently a lot easier than if you come around
> when they are preadolescent or later).
>
> Now for the hard part: I do not think you should sleep over in the
> child's presence until you are married. He is young enough now that he
> probably wouldn't think anything about it one way or the other. But his
> mother would. And I can pretty much assure you that even if she has no
> problem with his moving on to another relationship before they are even
> divorced (you mentioned he is separated, did you not?), there will come
> a day when things are not completely cordial between them. Your
> involvement with "her baby" may even spark jealousy she didn't know she
> had; it did with my sister and my husband's ex.
>
> By exposing the child to adulterous behavior (which in the cold light of
> day, it is), you are giving her ammunition to use against your bf in
> divorce and custody matters. Some of the other women here can attest to
> how viciously a jealous biomom can use any such information - by
> refusing visitation or just poisoning the kid's mind.
>
> Also, there is the question of what moral lessons your bf wants to teach
> his son. My husband and I were very clear that we did not want the boys
> to think that sleeping together before marriage was OK, even though we
> were in a committed relationship. We confined our sleepovers to nights
> when they were with their Mom. This was very tough, especially since he
> ended up winning custody of them, and so they were pretty much always
> around. But we were clear about what was right. And now I am very glad
> we chose that path.
>
peg boucher murphy
In article <354E03...@hotmail.com>,
SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Nathalie wrote:
>> My SO's son and I are getting on very well; he gets excited whenever I come
>> to visit. The question I (we) have is how should we best go about preparing
>> his son for me staying overnight sometime in the near future? We of course
>> don't want him to feel threatened in any way; in fact we want him to feel
>> excited and happy about this.
>
>child's presence until you are married.
our kids were 7 and 5. b never slept over (at least that the kids knew
about!) until we made a pretty serious commitment.
that commitment doesn't have to mean *marriage* -- that's a personal
issue. depending on your own beliefs and morals, it could mean moving
in together/creating a household, engagement, etc.
>He is young enough now that he
>probably wouldn't think anything about it one way or the other. But his
>mother would.
moreso, most kids find people moving out to be confusing and a loss. kids
of divorce have had too much experience with the latter already -- and why
would anyone involved want to put the latter on the kids?
>By exposing the child to adulterous behavior (which in the cold light of
>day, it is), you are giving her ammunition to use against your bf in
>divorce and custody matters.
this is true and is something to think about, but shouldn't be, imho, the
primary concern. the kids should be.
peg
Nathalie
Hi,
Thanks for all your very valued replies. This is actually the first time I
have ever posted to a newsgroup, and I realise that perhaps I should have
put more information in my first posting than I did.
One of the things that I didn't say was that both my partner and I are both
in complete agreement that staying overnight with his son there would be
wrong unless we had demonstrated some sort of serious commitment to each
other.
Also, at every step so far in introducing me to his son, he has first
checked with his ex that it's OK, so her feelings are very much being
considered too. I will not be staying overnight until she also agrees.
There's no BIG rush (I realise that in my first posting I said 'near
future' - I mean months, and am prepared for longer. Sorry for the
confusion!). We want to do it right, and we have other nights that we do
spend together. If that takes many months, then so be it.
But back to my original question - how do you go about staying overnight?
How do you prepare a young child of 3 for that? What can you say to them in
terms that they understand?
Thanks again for all the replies,
Nathalie
peg boucher murphy
it's not often that i find myself disagreeing with vicki and ssm, but...
In article <354E3E...@hotmail.com>,
SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Vicki Robinson wrote:
>> In a previous article, SoccerStepMom <soccer...@hotmail.com> said:
>> >Now for the hard part: I do not think you should sleep over in the
>> >child's presence until you are married.
<snip>
>> >Also, there is the question of what moral lessons your bf wants to teach
>> >his son. My husband and I were very clear that we did not want the boys
>> >to think that sleeping together before marriage was OK, even though we
>> >were in a committed relationship.
>>
>> This seems, on the surface, to be hypocritical, and I want to add my voice to
>> SSM's before anyone jumps in.
>
>Thanks, Vicki. I meant to put in a note that we recognized the
>hypocrisy and it bugged us, but we justified it to ourselves in the way
>that Vicki described.
my parents' hypocrisy and later their justification of that were awfully
huge issues for me, and a big part of the rift we still suffer. i have
made a choice to not put my kids in that position.
>To tell kids that sex before marriage is wrong
>> while indulging in it oneself seems wrong, and I suppose that one could make
>> that claim.
i believe that it is wrong because it is hypocrisy, really lies of omission.
>>However, there's a lot of difference between two adults in a
>> committed relationship sharing sexual intimacy, and two teenagers who are
>> inluv 4ever doing so, but your kids aren't going to see it that way.
maybe. but finding out that you did what they aren't supposed to isn't
going to help that distinction.
my kids have always (this is how they'd phrase it, i think -- our first
"where do babies come from" conversation happened when the twins were around
2) known that adults have sexual relations. we've done rather constant and
age appropriate sex ed, and talked about love and feelings, etc.
we've always said that sex was for adults (legal *and* psychological) and
was best in a long term loving relationship for most people. we now have
two teens and an almost teen.
>> Children are masters of reductionist understanding. "Dad slept with *his*
>> girlfriends" translates into "So it's ok for me to have a revolving door on
>> my room when I'm 16!" very easily for a kid!
yes. and if they find out on their own, or from an uncle, or other bio-
parent or whatever about that, they will not only have reductionist thinking
but anger and rebellion making it all that more appealing -- and likely.
<sigh>
>> Try to tell them that a couple in
>> their thirties with jobs and homes can cope with an unexpected pregnancy
>> better than a 16 year-old, and see how seriously they take you.
frankly? if you've been talking about this sort of thing all along, you'd
be surprised. really. my kids know kids who had babies in their sophmore
year of h.s. they know people who married way too young (like me). they
know hiv positive people (and have known 3 people that have died from aids).
both of my teens are pretty against sex in h.s. at all, and completely
against unsafe sex.
>> I know, I'm talking about teenagers, but this kind of training starts early.
>> Kids learn as they grow. Three years old is not too young to teach them the
>> basics of sexual responsibility through your own behavior.
i strongly advise against lying and hypocrisy in this. it is easy to be
sexually responsible when you're in a committed relationship and "getting
some" (to put it crudely). kids almost always find out that you haven't
been completely honest. they feel betrayed. this is not a good basis for
honest and open communication about something as important as their sexual
life/behavior.
be human to your kids. don't hold them to standards that you haven't
managed to hold yourself to -- most of you all would consider that really
unfair in other categories. why is sexual behavior so different?
and what if one of them turns out gay and doesn't have marriage as an option?
what message are you giving all of your kids -- including the one in ten
on written about on this ng -- about gay people and their relationships?
>> I think you enhance your position in your SO's son's life if you don't stay
>> over at least until you become formally engaged.
this advice i agree with, but for the reason i already posted about:
stability for the kids.
peg
FallMorn
<<<i believe that it is wrong because it is hypocrisy, really lies of
omission.>>>
I'm not sure I see how this can be viewed as "lies of omission." There are
MANY adult situations & matters which are none of our children's business. I
don't discuss my financial status with my children, I don't discuss my problems
with my children, & I don't discuss my sex life with my children.
I think none of us doubts that children are exposed to sexually active peers,
but that's not the same as having a "morally deficient" parent. As parents, we
must be the stable, morally upright examples from which they can draw strength,
stability, & an understanding of right & wrong. There's no question that at
times our children will do "wrong," but when they have a solid base for
developing ethics, they will, usually, eventually come back to that base.
Children rarely "Do as I say, not as I do."
Janice
peg boucher murphy
In article <199805090212...@ladder03.news.aol.com>,
FallMorn <fall...@aol.com> wrote:
><<<i believe that it is wrong because it is hypocrisy, really lies of
>omission.>>>
>
>I'm not sure I see how this can be viewed as "lies of omission." There are
>MANY adult situations & matters which are none of our children's business. I
>don't discuss my financial status with my children, I don't discuss my problems
>with my children, & I don't discuss my sex life with my children.
no one is advocating telling kids intimate details of our sexual lives or
financial matters. but there is a difference between keeping some details
private, and holding a hypocritical stance with them that sex outside of
marriage is terrible and bad (and allowing them to think that you would never
have done such a thing when in fact you would and have).
the latter is a clear lie of omission and hypocrisy. telling my kids that
exactly how much money i make or what i (like to) do in bed is non of their
business is drawing important boundary lines.
if that difference isn't clear to you, then i'm sorry for your kids.
>I think none of us doubts that children are exposed to sexually active peers,
>but that's not the same as having a "morally deficient" parent.
people who have sex outside of marriage are "morally deficient"? wow. that
condemns (from my reading so far) most of the parents on this list.
>As parents, we
>must be the stable, morally upright examples from which they can draw strength,
>stability, & an understanding of right & wrong. There's no question that at
>times our children will do "wrong," but when they have a solid base for
>developing ethics, they will, usually, eventually come back to that base.
>Children rarely "Do as I say, not as I do."
ah, but when parents hold kids to standards that they don't/haven't held
themselves up to, they are saying *exactly* "do as i say, not as i do".
that is what i have problems with. i find it unacceptable hypocrisy,
especially from people in authority (which parents are over their kids).
peg
-against hypocrisy and lies to kids.
FallMorn
<<<ah, but when parents hold kids to standards that they don't/haven't held
themselves up to, they are saying *exactly* "do as i say, not as i do".
that is what i have problems with. i find it unacceptable hypocrisy,
especially from people in authority (which parents are over their kids).
peg
-against hypocrisy and lies to kids.>>>
I understand what you're saying about hypocracy. I personally have not lived a
sterling life, but I feel that my past is no more my children's business than
it is my parents business. If you, likewise, have not lived a sterling life,
what do you say, SPECIFICALLY, to your kids to avoid this kind of "hypocracy?"
Janice
King&Furnish
I understand where you're coming from, and if you've lived a sterling life
thus far, then more respect to you. However, how, then, would you handle 2
children born out of wedlock? What are they supposed to learn about
themselves? They were concieved by a Jehovah's witness, too... you know,
the ones who don't believe in premarital sex...
Hypocrisy is a dangerous term. I agree that we all have our morals & values
that we live by, but are you saying that my stepdaughers are hypocrites just
because they exist?
Posey
King&Furnish
I mean that their mother is a JW - not my DF. Sorry for the confusion...
=)
Posey
janelaw
I think I am missing chunks of this thread. Is the question how
to introduce a new relationship to a three year old? Or was the
crux of the original post that you want to be able to tell the
three year old that premarital sex is bad?
Moral issues aside, in practical terms, the three year old will
not remember as a teenager that you slept with dad before you
were married.
For me I felt comfortable with the stay-over thing once I had
reached some decree of certainty re the permanence of the
relationship. I did not want my child to have to deal with
multiple possible replacements to my mate. I also did not want
her to become attached to them or see them as part of our family
only to have them vanish when we adults decided to call it
quits.
After that, once the person has become a regular character in
the family's life, it makes sense for him/her to stay over. I
never said anything about it. One morning he was there. My
daughter asked why he was there in the morning. I answered that
he had slept over. I did discuss it with her before he moved
in. I never felt I had to explain that we were having sex until
she asked me. That was way later than three.
FallMorn
Posey>>>
Posey,
I'm not sure who you are asking about hypocrisy, since I'm apparently the one
being accused of it. I think you're in a tough situation with your SKs, but to
answer your question, of course they aren't hypocrites. They are innocent
children with a mother who probably loves them very much, but who didn't use
her best judgement during a time in her life. It will be very difficult for
her to teach her children to use better judgement than she used. I just feel
that it's difficult to raise our children to accept moral responsibility for
themselves if we as adults don't give them an example of our best behavior.
The ORIGINAL question was from a woman in a fairly new relationship, whose
boyfriend has a child. She wanted to know when it would be acceptable for her
to start spending the night with her boyfriend with the child in the house. I
cast absolutely no moral judgements (although the responses would indicate that
I had), because as adults, we are free to make whatever choices are available.
I simply feel, on a PERSONAL level, that in order for me to have the moral
authority to maintain specific expectations for my son's behavior, as his
primary authority figure & the person responsible for raising him, I must do
everything possible to maintain a lifestyle that allows me that authority. I
simply think of it as responsibility, others obviously do not agree. When I
had my child, I found it necessary to give up some of my personal "freedoms" in
order to raise my son as I see fit, & have never thought of it as "sacrifice."
That's my choice.
Perhaps I should have just said, "Go ahead, sleep over whenever you want to.
Don't worry about it. It's none of my business, & I'm not responsible for you,
your choices, or your children, & it's no skin off my nose." I think it's
rather interesting that to take a stand for positive role-modeling is grounds
for being labeled a hypocrite.
Janice
St0rmsfate
>The ORIGINAL question was from a woman in a fairly new relationship,
>boyfriend has a child. She wanted to know when it would be acceptable for
>to start spending the night with her boyfriend with the child in the house.
<br>
I don't recall that being the question at all. I thought she <br> asked how to
handle the situation of her spending the <br>night...not asking if it was
acceptable. I could be <br> mistaken though.
<br>
<br>
Laura
SoccerStepMom
You're both right: She asked how to handle her spending the nigh, when
the time came for her to do so. SSM