Parenting Questions (or I May Be In An Asylum By the End of the Week)
Geri and Brian
us, as well as one that has been going on full force for a couple of months
now.
1) Every thing is "I want this" or "I want that", especially in stores. If I
tell her no, she argues and gets snotty.
2) Baby talk (including "I wan' my maw-maw" when she is in trouble) and saying
things like, "Me want something to eat".
3) Lying (usually about stupid things that we know better)
Total brat behavior. These things are at their peak when her medication times
are approaching and I know are at least somewhat age appropriate. (I certainly
hope seven years old is a more civilized age.)
I would certainly be open to hearing any good parenting techniques we have not
thought of to nip these behaviors right in the bud.
I had a conversation with her today about how it is ok to ask politely for
something like a snack, but that demanding "I want" is rude. I also told her
that when we are in stores, if I want her to have something I will get it for
her, so the "I wants" are not going to work. I am sure I will have to have
this conversation with her eight million times before she gets it. She also
got a time-out for this and baby talking while we were at the store.
This baby talk has come out of the blue. There is nothing new or traumatic in
her life right now. We have just started summer vacation from school, so the
AM rushes are over and we are much more relaxed in general. We know her mom
treats her like a baby (we heard her talking about "the doggy" to SD), but this
seems to be a little over the top even for her. It is either silly baby talk
or if she is in trouble about something, this long drawn out whiney, "I wan' my
mahw-mahw," that sets my teeth right on edge. (It is the only time we hear
about mom when she is here, so I don't think it is about missing mom. Maybe it
about missing mom's lack of rules, but I think it is just to be annoying.) "Not
hearing" baby talk doesn't seem to work with her, she just does it louder till
she ends up in time out
I have no qualms about putting her in a time out when we are out, and she knows
that. I told her the good thing about corners is that they are everywhere.
Many of these annoying behaviors occur when the medications begin to wear off,
and I guess we have to make a little allowance for that, but I don't want
needing the meds to be an excuse for bad behavior, either.
She has been doing the lying for several weeks now. It isn't lying about
things she will get in trouble for, usually. In fact, she is pretty good about
owning up to that sort of thing. If she gets in trouble at school and we ask
her what she did, she usually starts out with, "I don't remember." We remind
her the rule about lying and her memory magically returns. (She gets
automatic loss of a privilege, loss of her dollar for the day and a time out
for a lie.) The lies she is quite blatant about are about really stupid
things. Today she was insisting to me that the sky talks (not like thunder) in
words. I could tell she was not being fanciful or telling a tall tale, her
attitude was I am going to make this up and you will believe it. A couple of
days ago she told me that Brian told her something the exact opposite of what
he told her and even with both of us together in the room with her, was
insistent about it. We told her that when people lie even once in a while,
that people learn not to believe them or trust them ever.
Any good ways to exterminate these behaviors? Right now a shock collar sounds
good ...
~~~~~~~~
Geri ^ ^
> ' ' <
"Whistling women and cackling hens
always come to no good end."
~~~~~~~~~
Beth
> Well, this custody week, SD has dropped two new and unattractive behaviors on
> us, as well as one that has been going on full force for a couple of months
> now.
>
> 1) Every thing is "I want this" or "I want that", especially in stores. If I
> tell her no, she argues and gets snotty.
It seems a bit immature, but you've explained she's on meds and has some
developmental problems, so I guess it stands to reason she might revert to this
sort of behavior. Sounds to me like she just wants to pick fights. She's got to
know you won't say yes to everything! My only (poor) advice is to fake total
oblivion, lol. When my SD is really bugging me, I suspect mostly for attention, I
act as if I don't know what she's doing, and it really pisses her off ;-)
I think you need to treat it as a stage and just keep repeating the basics: "I
know you want (blank), but we can't have everything we want. If you really want
(blank), this is how you could obtain it. You could (spend/save/request a gift),"
etc. Does she get an allowance? Can she reasonably save money for things she
wants?
> 2) Baby talk (including "I wan' my maw-maw" when she is in trouble) and saying
> things like, "Me want something to eat".
Grrrr. This seems to be an early grade-school behavior, b/c my middle kids (boy
and girl) do this. I hate it b/c the 3-year-old is modeling it. She'll use "me"
as the subject b/c she hears her brother and sister say it. "Me tired." "Me
hun-gwy." (That's my 7-year-old son, lol.) I just tell them I am *not* amused and
they need to use their actual language. They don't like to see me get all stiff
and put off, so they usually settle down to get me back to my good graces :-)
When I've seen DD playing in a group of girlfriends, they often seem to love
playing mama & baby, and that seems to involve all of them being the baby! :-)
> 3) Lying (usually about stupid things that we know better)
Why do kids lie about the dumbest things? At least if they lied better we'd praise
their intelligence, lol. You mentioned it might be linked to medication, and maybe
it is. I'm sure you're knowledgeable about the med effects. I definitely remember
SD lying around this age, though the younger kids rarely do it. Occasionally I'll
ask DS if he's brushed his teeth and he'll lie, that sort of thing. But SD had her
sneaky moments. It's *very* annoying, and I hated playing truth detective. I
think "this too shall pass," though.
> I would certainly be open to hearing any good parenting techniques we have not
> thought of to nip these behaviors right in the bud.
Um...me too! :-D
> I had a conversation with her today about how it is ok to ask politely for
> something like a snack, but that demanding "I want" is rude.
Sounds like you'll just have to reinforce this the "eight million times"! I joke
with my kids that I'm a mommy robot. They push parts of my face/body and hear the
following (a sample): "Put that down!" "Don't speak that way!" "What did I just
tell you?" "Be nice to your sibling!" "If I have to tell you one more time...!"
<g> (I also have an, "I love you" button on my head.) I think this goes with the
territory.
> or if she is in trouble about something, this long drawn out whiney, "I wan' my
> mahw-mahw," that sets my teeth right on edge.
<shudder>
> I have no qualms about putting her in a time out when we are out, and she knows
> that. I told her the good thing about corners is that they are everywhere.
> Many of these annoying behaviors occur when the medications begin to wear off,
> and I guess we have to make a little allowance for that, but I don't want
> needing the meds to be an excuse for bad behavior, either.
DS was being annoying at lunch today, just being fidgety and overly silly and
distracting to his sisters. Time out these days is usu. just going to the bedroom
alone (not a punishment, just a time to cool off and relax). I looked at him very
seriously and said, "Now, you're being quite annoying. And you know what happens
to annoying children, don't you?" "What?" "They go to Annoying World. Do you
know where Annoying World is?" And he pointed upstairs. His sister, of course,
had to seek clarification :-) But they do know they're getting on our nerves. I
think it's good to send them off to put on a more pleasant face!
> things. Today she was insisting to me that the sky talks (not like thunder) in
> words. I could tell she was not being fanciful or telling a tall tale, her
> attitude was I am going to make this up and you will believe it.
What happens if you play along with her? "What does the sky say to you?"
lilblakdog
news:20010619234246...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
> and saying
> things like, "Me want something to eat".
WHERE IS THIS COMING FROM???
Stepson's been doing this recently, and can't explain where he picked it up.
I'm wondering if there's some new television show that the kids are watching
where one of the characters talks like this.
lil (who remembers when all the young mothers in this area boycotted the
baby characters on Barney and Sesame Street because they stressed the use of
improper English)
http://lilblakdog.tripod.com
---
"It's hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone." --
Blue Rodeo
Wendy
Geri and Brian <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote:
>This baby talk has come out of the blue. There is nothing new or traumatic in
>her life right now. We have just started summer vacation from school, so the
>AM rushes are over and we are much more relaxed in general. We know her mom
>treats her like a baby (we heard her talking about "the doggy" to SD), but this
>seems to be a little over the top even for her. It is either silly baby talk
>or if she is in trouble about something, this long drawn out whiney, "I wan' my
>mahw-mahw," that sets my teeth right on edge. (It is the only time we hear
>about mom when she is here, so I don't think it is about missing mom. Maybe it
>about missing mom's lack of rules, but I think it is just to be annoying.) "Not
>hearing" baby talk doesn't seem to work with her, she just does it louder till
>she ends up in time out
My youngest went through a brief phase of that a year or so ago at 9. It
wasn't anything more than copying one of her cousins, I think. Children do
occasionally wish things were simple like when they were babies, though.
My teen has been known to look at photos of herself and wish she were still
a baby, even though it would mean giving up lots of the things she does now.
>She has been doing the lying for several weeks now. It isn't lying about
>things she will get in trouble for, usually. In fact, she is pretty good about
>owning up to that sort of thing. If she gets in trouble at school and we ask
>her what she did, she usually starts out with, "I don't remember." We remind
>her the rule about lying and her memory magically returns. (She gets
>automatic loss of a privilege, loss of her dollar for the day and a time out
>for a lie.) The lies she is quite blatant about are about really stupid
>things. Today she was insisting to me that the sky talks (not like thunder) in
>words. I could tell she was not being fanciful or telling a tall tale, her
>attitude was I am going to make this up and you will believe it. A couple of
>days ago she told me that Brian told her something the exact opposite of what
>he told her and even with both of us together in the room with her, was
>insistent about it. We told her that when people lie even once in a while,
>that people learn not to believe them or trust them ever.
Oh Geri, I wish the sky would talk to me. One of the most beautiful parts of
childhood is the ability to suspend disbelief and see things as they might
be rather than as everyone else wants to see them.
Wendy
Sian Reid
gple...@aol.comicrelief wrote on 6/19/01 11:42 PM:
> Well, this custody week, SD has dropped two new and unattractive behaviors on
> us, as well as one that has been going on full force for a couple of months
> now.
>
> 1) Every thing is "I want this" or "I want that", especially in stores. If I
> tell her no, she argues and gets snotty.
> 2) Baby talk (including "I wan' my maw-maw" when she is in trouble) and
> saying
> things like, "Me want something to eat".
> 3) Lying (usually about stupid things that we know better)
>
Geri, this is pretty age appropriate. I know, last thing you wanted to
hear. My BD (five going on six) does all of this stuff too, so I know how
annoying it gets.
1) We tell her 'wants don't get', and explain that if she pesters us about
buying her stuff, that we will be *less* inclined to do it, not more. We
tell her that if she continues, we will have to go home. Yes, we have to do
this speech a lot. The behaviour doesn't vanish overnight. I remember my
SD doing it at the same age as well though, and she doesn't much now, so it
must have some kind of long term effect.
2) This one is a big thing with us, since BD talked late and is still
somewhat verbally delayed. We repeat that she needs to use big girl words
if she wants something, or we won't be able understand enough to give it to
her. People don't understand baby talk. I repeat the 'wrong' sentence back
to her correctly. '*I* want something to eat' and ask her if she can say
that. I wait for her to repeat it, praise her, and get her some food.
3) Lying. Depends on the lie. If my kid told me the sky talked to her, I
would say 'that must be very interesting. What does it say?' Other kinds
of 'lies', like 'you said you'd take me to the park today' are met with 'I'm
sorry, but you must have misunderstood me.' We actually have very little
problem with my daughter misrepresenting reality deliberately and
manipulatively, although she often presents what she wishes as true, and,
since that's a pretty normal development stage, I don't freak out about it.
Good luck, Geri!
Sian
Geri and Brian
>childhood is the ability to suspend disbelief and see things as they might
>be rather than as everyone else wants to see them.
I know. But she is different when she is pretending or doing her fantasyland
thing. This she presented like it was a fact and completely true. I didn't
have time to get into a huge discussion about it at the moment and kind of
changed the subject.
Karla
Geri and Brian wrote:
> I would certainly be open to hearing any good parenting techniques we have not
> thought of to nip these behaviors right in the bud.
You asked (and on a day when the definition of defenestration, to throw
someone or something out a window, is looking pretty good when I look at
the younger boys).
> 1) Every thing is "I want this" or "I want that", especially in stores. If I
> tell her no, she argues and gets snotty.
I tend to do three things depending on moods. The first is the whole
fantasy thing: and I want to buy you that toy, in fact, I not only want
to buy you that toy but I want to have some of the best toy designers in
the world to find out exactly what kinds of toys aren't on the market
that you can create with them and then build a huge castle with swimming
pools and a skate park and a video arcade and everything just to begin
to contain the collection of toys I want to buy for you but I can't even
afford a house in our neighborhood right now so we'll just plan on
buying it another day....
This has been known to work with the kids piping in thier fantasy (BTW,
I did get that from the How To Talk book) and then the kids saying,
"It's OK, we don't have to get it right now."
The second thing I do is: and I want a fully restored dark green Karmann
Ghia rag top with a leather interior. Oh, I'm sorry, what was it you
said? This has been known to work because the kids then realize they
aren't getting too far with me.
The third thing is: Great, how much money do you have on you?
I have been known to remove a tantruming child from a store without a
problem. Yes, I have ditched entire carts of groceries to throw Fishy
over my shoulder and to the car. I then made a point of going shopping
on his time (ie during his favorite show) to remind him he is the reason
we have to do the shopping now. Now that they're older, they've learned
(for the most part).
> 2) Baby talk (including "I wan' my maw-maw" when she is in trouble) and saying
> things like, "Me want something to eat".
I responded to baby talk the same way I did to whining: I'm sorry, I
can't hear that voice. When you can ask me in a voice that is right for
your age, then I'll answer. If it got bad, I would then place the kid
in time out until they either calmed down or could remember how to speak
properly.
> 3) Lying (usually about stupid things that we know better)
The kids know the one thing I can not stand is lying. When we get the
"I don't remember..." I say, "I'm sure <other person involved> will.
Which will get you in more trouble, telling me the truth or someone else
telling me the truth?" A couple of weeks ago when SS did one of these
"I don't know why they were chasing me, they just did..." type of things
about a playground incident, I reminded him that I not only knew the
teacher but the other kids involved (working in the school library has
its advantages) so what were they going to tell me?
We've been working a lot on trust with SS as he's learned how to play a
lot of head games thanks to BM and her anger at us. While she is now
(for all appearances, and I truly hope it's for real this time) is
working with us, the damage of the past three years is evident. I'm
cautiously optimistic that this will really begin to straighten out as
he sees her working more closely with us. I know that he's getting a
good piece of the message with us and with peers (Why do you always have
to check...? Well, answer this for me, how many times have you said you
did something only for me to find out you didn't?)
--
karla
I never expected there to be a blue light special on enlightenment -
Greg Brown
Geri and Brian
>developmental problems, so I guess it stands to reason she might revert to
>this
>sort of behavior.
It is interesting, because she didn't do it at three or four when you usually
think of kids doing this. It has just been in the past couple of weeks and
noticibly this week.
>Sounds to me like she just wants to pick fights
When she gets into that mode, I tell her it is time to stop talking at all.
>Does she get an allowance? Can she reasonably save money for things she
>wants?
Yes, and she does. It is like this immediate gratification thing. In the
grocery store we were picking up some stuff for dinner and it was, "I am hungry
(or "me hungry"). I want something to eat." This was after I gave her a
yoghurt for a snack not an hour before and a popsicle to eat on the way to the
store. (We walked over.) Finally I said, "Look, do I look like I am in the
kitchen making dinner?? "No." "Well, then you are going to have to wait."
That shut her up on that topic for a while. She ended up in a time out in the
store, too.
Her problems mainly surface when it is time for her ODD medication. (At this
point, the thought of what she would be like not on the medication is just
scary. She would have to just spend her life in the corner.)
>Grrrr. This seems to be an early grade-school behavior, b/c my middle kids
>(boy
>and girl) do this. I hate it b/c the 3-year-old is modeling it.
You know, I didn't think of the copying thing. She has been at this new school
and God only knows what she is picking up over there. It could be the source
of some of this stuff.
>It's *very* annoying, and I hated playing truth detective. I
>think "this too shall pass," though.
I think the salaries for truth detective and logicop are about the same. :-)
> I looked at him very
>seriously and said, "Now, you're being quite annoying. And you know what
>happens
>to annoying children, don't you?" "What?" "They go to Annoying World. Do
>you
>know where Annoying World is?"
This is a total crack up. I am stealing it.
>I
>think it's good to send them off to put on a more pleasant face!
When SD came out of her time yesterday I asked her if she was ready to act like
a human being or if she still wanted to act like a monster. She said she was
ready to be a human being.
>What happens if you play along with her? "What does the sky say to you?"
I haven't really encouraged it. That was the strangest of her stories. It is
more her insistence that they are true, even in the face of evidence otherwise,
that bugs me.
Geri and Brian
>The second thing I do is: and I want a fully restored dark green Karmann
>Ghia rag top with a leather interior.
LOL - I say, " ... and I want a million dollars".
>The third thing is: Great, how much money do you have on you?
This is good. I am going to steal it.
>I know that he's getting a
>good piece of the message with us and with peers (Why do you always have
>to check...? Well, answer this for me, how many times have you said you
>did something only for me to find out you didn't?)
Those are good. SD is funny about knowing we will check it out. She is like
her mom in the aspect that she will play something out until the very end and
she is busted. She has not learned that it doesn't work yet. I have had the
conversation with her more than once about how when people lie even a few times
it means that no one can believe them ever because we never know when they are
telling the truth or not. Doesn't phase her. Maybe this concept is over her
head, yet.
rebecca
"Geri and Brian" <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote in message
news:20010619234246...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
> Well, this custody week, SD has dropped two new and unattractive behaviors
on
> us, as well as one that has been going on full force for a couple of
months
> now.
>
> 1) Every thing is "I want this" or "I want that", especially in stores.
If I
> tell her no, she argues and gets snotty.
Oh yeah, this one's familiar. Just so you're prepared, the next phase is
"Well, my mom always lets me get..." We had problems with this one for a
few months only - we say "no, we're buying only xyz today." SS throws a
tantrum, and we're out of the store. (I *like* the idea of then going back
on SS' time to finish shopping for whatever, if it ever pops up again I'll
do that.) Anyway, I digress. BM, I should note, still reports terrible
problems with tantrums, complete with "My daddy always buys me something."
Does SD get an allowance? Our problems with SS (5YO) have been completely
eliminated since we started giving him $2 a week to spend. Now, we cart him
to the store every now and again, he asks how much allowance he's saved,
then spends 45 minutes comparison shopping to see what he should get. LOL.
The other day, he was so well behaved while I was watching him, I bought him
a toy just because and he almost fell over, he was so surprised.
> 3) Lying (usually about stupid things that we know better)
>
Not sure what the best approach is here, although it's totally normal
behavior for the age. Mostly we just try to call SS on it in a
matter-of-fact way, then, if warranted, make the punishment fit the lie.
For example: if your foot hurts and you can't play baseball, then you can't
play on your scooter, play soccer, or run around on it. If you told daddy
that rebecca said yes, when she really said no, not only do you not get to
do what you want, you also have to apoligize for lying and you lose a
privilege.
Hope that helps a little,
Rebecca
Geri and Brian
>"Well, my mom always lets me get..."
Oh, peachy.
>(I *like* the idea of then going back
>on SS' time to finish shopping for whatever, if it ever pops up again I'll
>do that.)
I like that, too.
>Does SD get an allowance?
She does. We have not spent any in a while. I will have to see about that.
>The other day, he was so well behaved while I was watching him, I bought him
>a toy just because and he almost fell over, he was so surprised.
LOL, I did that two days ago. With SD, it doesn't seem to curb the greed any.
It's interesting, because it doesn't seem to matter where we are. If it is the
mall, it is a toy, if it is the grocery store it is some food, you name it.
(We just cracked up a couple of weeks ago when we heard a comedian (who is a
dad) talking about children being like small homeless people, "Can I have a
dollar", "Can I have some food?" "Get me a drink.")
>If you told daddy
>that rebecca said yes, when she really said no, not only do you not get to
>do what you want, you also have to apoligize for lying and you lose a
>privilege.
Kind of similar to our approach.
>Hope that helps a little,
I am glad to know from other people that these stages seem to pass and what you
did to get through them. :-)
rebecca
"Geri and Brian" <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote in message
> >Oh yeah, this one's familiar. Just so you're prepared, the next phase is
> >"Well, my mom always lets me get..."
>
> Oh, peachy.
Yep, and if you don't immediately nip it it gets worse and worse. At the
ripe old age of 3, he told me his mom always let him sit in the car while
she shopped inside Walgreen's. Then it was mom always lets him buy a book
*AND* a toy. Then she let him sit right next to the train tracks and wait
to see the train go by... I was always successful with "Well, have your
mommy call your daddy and tell him she thinks it's okay and then we'll talk
about it" but "How wonderful that your mommy lets you do that, I don't"
works pretty okay too. It's all about testing boundaries.
> (We just cracked up a couple of weeks ago when we heard a comedian (who is
a
> dad) talking about children being like small homeless people, "Can I have
a
> dollar", "Can I have some food?" "Get me a drink.")
SS ordered me to clean something up the other day, I said "What do I look
like, your maid?" He said "Yes, you're my maid" and started cracking up.
He also, when I say, "what am I, chopped liver?" tells me that I am, indeed,
chopped liver. Good thing I have a sense of humor. (-:
Geri and Brian
>
Barbera Wallace
"Geri and Brian" <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote in message
> >The third thing is: Great, how much money do you have on you?
>
> This is good. I am going to steal it.
I tried this! What happens next is: "You didn't tell me to bring my money
with me! You have to buy it for me!"
> >I know that he's getting a
> >good piece of the message with us and with peers (Why do you always have
> >to check...? Well, answer this for me, how many times have you said you
> >did something only for me to find out you didn't?)
>
> Those are good. SD is funny about knowing we will check it out. She is
like
> her mom in the aspect that she will play something out until the very end
and
> she is busted. She has not learned that it doesn't work yet. I have had
the
> conversation with her more than once about how when people lie even a few
times
> it means that no one can believe them ever because we never know when they
are
> telling the truth or not. Doesn't phase her. Maybe this concept is over
her
> head, yet.
My SD (11 in 3 weeks) learnt at her mum's that she could get away with
lying. That's because BM never checked. BM lied to her too, so she sort of
expects people to lie. She lied about stupid things too ("yes, I made my
bed"). We believed her, at first, until I looked into her bedroom when I
passed it and saw that her bed wasn't made. We caught her at more of these
lies (and a couple of worse ones), and then we had a very serious talk with
her, and told her that the worst thing she can do is lie. We told her that
we never lie in our house. We made it very clear that lying would have very
serious consequences. And (most importantly) we were very strict about it!
She asked me why we always have to check her, and I told her the same as you
(you've lied to us before, so we can't tell for sure whether you're lying or
not). She said she hated the checking, and I said that the fastest way to
get rid of it was never lie anymore.
The other day (when we were having one of our serious conversations) she
asked me: "Do you trust me?" Very difficult question!! I said something
like: "Of course I do! That's why it upsets me so much when you lie!" She
then said:" Do you think I trust you?" I said: "You are the only one who can
answer that. But I hope you do trust me, and I think you know that your dad
and I will never lie to you." And then she said:" Yes, I know you won't. But
other grown-ups do, you know, so that's why I sometimes think you do." I
think she is slowly starting to see her mum's true colours, and she doesn't
like it!
Things are slowly getting better, now that she's been away from BM for about
6 months, and I do hope with all my heart that things don't go back to the
way they were after she's come back from her 3 week visit to her mum next
month.... (BM lives in another country)
The other day, DH got her on a little lie again. We laughed our heads off
about that one (SD did as well, after a couple of minutes). DH asked her:
"Did you brush your teeth?" She said: "Yes!" DH: "What colour was the tooth
paste?" SD: "White of course." DH: "Go and brush your teeth!" When she
stopped moaning and went to brush her teeth, she saw that we had Blue Minty
Gel instead of our normal white stuff!
--
Barbera Wallace
What does a slightly insane Englishman think of the Dutch?
To find out, visit the Dutch & Such website:
http://funny.as/dutchmen
Anne Haas
>point, the thought of what she would be like not on the medication is just
>scary. She would have to just spend her life in the corner.)
>
I would talk with the doctor who prescribed it about what is happening. He may
want to increase the frequency of the dosages slightly. This shouldn't be
happening.
>>What happens if you play along with her? "What does the sky say to you?"
>
>I haven't really encouraged it. That was the strangest of her stories. It
>is
>more her insistence that they are true, even in the face of evidence
>otherwise,
>that bugs me.
>
You may want to play along, Geri. Sometimes kids will use something like that
to explain what is happening to them. It's also a way to explain it. For
example, I suggested to my nephew to use Blue Clue's stories to help with the
transition of his son for visitation by having Blue in the same situation. His
son can relate to it better. If it's not for a reason of trying to tell you
something, it could be a way of encouraging her imagination. Something that
doesn't happen with a lot of kids anymore. Those with a keen sense of
imagination are the trailblazers of new ideas & inventions.
my $.02.
AnneH
"To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might
be the world."
Geri and Brian
>want to increase the frequency of the dosages slightly. This shouldn't be
>happening.
We had him raise her lunchtime dose last week because of it. This medication
only stays in the body about a few hours though, so there is a little bit of
lag time, because she takes her AM dose with breakfast and her PM dose with
dinner. She seemed to get an upset stomach (at BM's at least) if she didn't
take this at mealtimes.
> If it's not for a reason of trying to tell you
>something, it could be a way of encouraging her imagination. Something that
>doesn't happen with a lot of kids anymore. Those with a keen sense of
>imagination are the trailblazers of new ideas & inventions.
I will try that the next time and see what she does. :-)
Karla
Barbera Wallace wrote:
>
> "Geri and Brian" <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote in message
> news:20010620113244...@ng-mf1.aol.com...
>
> > >The third thing is: Great, how much money do you have on you?
> >
> > This is good. I am going to steal it.
>
> I tried this! What happens next is: "You didn't tell me to bring my money
> with me! You have to buy it for me!"
I usually have two answers to that one (again, depending on mood):
- You knew we were going to the store, your wallet is not my
responsibility
- How much is in your wallet? If I buy it now, when we get home you
will give me the money.
I should note that I tend to know what the younger boys have on hand
because their allowance is their only income. So it's however many
weeks times 2. That way when they say, "I think I have 20 dollars..." I
can reply, "but you spent all your money two weeks ago so shouldn't you
have closer to four dollars?" That's when the "Oh yeah, I forgot" kicks
in.
Melissa
>Something about this bothers me. It smacks of stifling creativity. I
>mean, if you think about it - we lie to kids about the Easter Bunny,
>Santa and the Tooth Fairy. If it were a harmful, destructive lie I'd
>be worried. If it's fanciful I'd encourage it.
My mom always used to tell us that stories were OK as long as we didn't try to
poass them off as the truth. A story could be wahtever you wanted as long as
everyone knew it was a story, otherwise it was a lie.
Love,
Melissa
"Being a Grown up is a bitch sometimes."
-V. Robinson
Karla
Geri and Brian wrote:
> Her problems mainly surface when it is time for her ODD medication. (At this
> point, the thought of what she would be like not on the medication is just
> scary. She would have to just spend her life in the corner.)
Just a thought here Geri. One thing I was told when Fishy was having
behavior-related med problems was that he had to learn to control
himself. The reality is, if he's 15 and on steroids and does damage
because of a roid rage, the judge isn't going to say, "Oh, I didn't
realize you were on steroids..." unless it's followed with "and you have
to learn to control it. You have this fine and time served..."
It really hit me for a number of reasons, not the least of which was
that I could see how something like that could happen. There are times
when I see him as being over the top until I see him with other kids his
age and realize that he's quite mild compared to some of the "normal"
kids.
One thing you may want to work with the therapist on is how to start
teaching her to identify one of her fits coming on and alternate
strategies to handle it. If she learns now, while she's still young, it
will make a huge difference when she's older.
jane
>Week)
>From: gple...@aol.comicrelief (Geri and Brian)
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: 20 Jun 2001 03:42:46 GMT
>
>
>
>Today she was insisting to me that the sky talks (not like thunder)
>in
>words.
Have you considered that she could be having auditory hallucinations?
jane
Cindy Martin
hear things, see things, etc. So, while Geri sees it as just making
something up, the SD could really "hear" the sky talking to her. In which
case, of course, it's time to get the meds re-evaluated. Or, it could be
that SD is just talking. Either way, I think this is something that needs
to be explored further.
Cindy
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20010620214447...@ng-cs1.aol.com...
> >Subject: Parenting Questions (or I May Be In An Asylum By the End of the
> >Week)
>
Karla
jane wrote:
> >Today she was insisting to me that the sky talks (not like thunder)
> >in
> >words.
>
> Have you considered that she could be having auditory hallucinations?
A word of caution to folks here. There is a difference between
psychotic hallucinations (the leprachan behind the rock told me to burn
down the house) and creative buffers. When Fishy's angel started
showing up to advise him, I was told by the professionals that it was a
way for him to feel safe in situations he couldn't control and that it
was better to make him responsible for his angel than deny it existed.
In other words when Eddy (his angel) trashes the bedroom playing with
everything, Fishy is then expected to be a good host and clean up after
his guest. When Eddy got angry and threw a chair that just missed a
young girl in his classroom last year, Fishy was the one that had to
write the letter of apology on his behalf because he "listened" to
Eddy's words on that and a reminder that Eddy was his guest, so he takes
the responsibility for Eddy's actions.
Because he was never told that Eddy wasn't real, he's still there in
times of high-stress to comfort Fishy. Because Fishy is directly
responsible for Eddy, he makes sure that Eddy doesn't do anything that
Fishy doesn't want to clean up after. In fact, we haven't heard from
Eddy in over a year now.
When a child says the sky talks, it could be that the sky does talk for
them. What's important is if the child is doing something wrong because
the sky told them, that they be held accountable for the actions the
same way they would if a (real) friend told them to take that action and
they did.
Geri and Brian
That sort of thing has pretty much been ruled out, at least so far.
Geri and Brian
>the sky told them, that they be held accountable for the actions the
>same way they would if a (real) friend told them to take that action and
>they did.
That is a good idea.
At this point in time, we have not had any indication of brain activity that
you all have mentioned. It is impossible for me to describe the conversation
because the nonverbal components were so strong. It was pretty clear that she
made up a story, she knew she made up a story, but she was going to insist it
was true.
I am pretty sure it is the ODD talking, because today, at right about the same
time, we had another little test of wills that ended up with her in a timeout
for a very long time, and she still would not shut her mouth. I left the room
and stayed out to keep from screaming at her. If there is one thing I wish she
would learn is when we tell her to be quiet that she would shut her mouth while
she is ahead. (I can imagine her mom in this situation would whale the tar out
of her - thankfully she is at day care on her mom's weeks. But, that day care
has told us they have had episodes around this time of day, too.) We have the
option of giving her a second dose of Adderall in the afternoon, which
definitely we would do when school starts, but Brian did not want to do during
the summer. I feel like the Adderall works with the Risperdal together to keep
this defiance (we are not talking about the normal six year old stuff - this is
ugly, hateful, out of control stuff) at bay. Anyway, after this afternoon I
convinced Brian that we need to give it during the afternoon, too. Within the
hour after she took it, she was a completely different, nice, reasonable kid.
I have all kinds of patience with kids and today I absolutely had steam coming
out my ears, so I am glad he agreed.
Geri and Brian
>she's what? 5 or 6?
Almost six and a half.
Geri and Brian
>mean, if you think about it - we lie to kids about the Easter Bunny,
>Santa and the Tooth Fairy. If it were a harmful, destructive lie I'd
>be worried. If it's fanciful I'd encourage it.
The content of the story is furniture in this issue - it was the boldfaced
insistence about it that was the concern. She is different when she is
tall-taling us or being creative, making up stories.
Geri and Brian
>because of a roid rage, the judge isn't going to say, "Oh, I didn't
>realize you were on steroids..." unless it's followed with "and you have
>to learn to control it. You have this fine and time served..."
This issue is a major concern of mine, too. When she is old enough to really do
some damage, it won't matter what her physical conditions are. Brian and I
have talked about at length (and agree) that her condition should never be an
excuse for behavior Supposedly after some time on these medications, she will
be able to learn behavior modification as well - that is the goal of the
doctors, at least. So she can learn to control herself, medications or not.
>One thing you may want to work with the therapist on is how to start
>teaching her to identify one of her fits coming on and alternate
>strategies to handle it. If she learns now, while she's still young, it
>will make a huge difference when she's older.
It is our hope the the doctors (and she also soon gets evaluated for
occupational therapy) will help us get through to her about that. At her other
home, her mom treats her like a baby and with pity (poor thing!) and I don't
know how well that is going to go along with teaching responsibility for
actions.
Geri and Brian
>
>That sort of thing has pretty much been ruled out, at least so far.
I would tack on here that one of my biggest fears is that there is something
degenerative going on with her brain function that has not been identified yet.
It worries me a lot that we are now have to give a pretty fair amount of
medication to achieve the same emotional behavior that was the unmedicated norm
two years ago.
Karla
> It is our hope the the doctors (and she also soon gets evaluated for
> occupational therapy) will help us get through to her about that. At her other
> home, her mom treats her like a baby and with pity (poor thing!) and I don't
> know how well that is going to go along with teaching responsibility for
> actions.
Probably about as well as it goes here with SS on occasion. We have
definite rules, consequence and a consistency of approach that he does
not have at BM's house. He has learned how to make a punishment sound
so horrible that BM will have a hissy fit at us rather than focus on his
actions that got him in trouble in the first place.
On the other hand, since he has learned that reactions to him are
consistent here, at school and in places other than his mother's home,
he has gradually improved and is reacting a bit more age appropriate.
When he first came to live here he was easily 2 years behind in
emotional development and has managed to begin catching up. So I have
to believe that some of what we do here is becoming ingrained enough
that it carries through on the other end....so there is hope for you
guys. ;)
Geri and Brian
>to believe that some of what we do here is becoming ingrained enough
>that it carries through on the other end....so there is hope for you
>guys. ;)
I hope so! :-)
Karla
> We have the
> option of giving her a second dose of Adderall in the afternoon, which
> definitely we would do when school starts, but Brian did not want to do during
> the summer. I feel like the Adderall works with the Risperdal together to keep
> this defiance (we are not talking about the normal six year old stuff - this is
> ugly, hateful, out of control stuff) at bay.
ODD can be a scary, scary thing. I have a cousin (who is a perpetually
8 year old in my mind but is really in his 30's, married and has a
family of his own now) that was diagnosed as ADHD in the 70's. His
parents were told to teach him a trade as he'd never graduate from high
school. My aunt fired that doctor and found a pedi that would work with
them to help train him to learn self-control and self-discipline. I was
one of the few people that could babysit him (which is why he'll always
be an 8 year old in my mind). It took a lot of work and effort but he
did graduate from high school (with honors), from college (suma cum
laude) and from law school with a speciality focus in business law.
My brother's two kids are both ADHD and the younger one of them is also
ODD as well. It really bothered my brother that the doctor kept saying,
"You know, you really ought to consider medication..." After an
incident with my older nephew at summer camp last year (he apparently
told a counselor where to shove it and began to walk home - oh yeah, he
was all of 9 at the time), my brother finally relented.
The difference really astounded him. He said if he hadn't seen it, he
wouldn't have believed it. He's been talking to our aunt a bit more
about what she did with our cousin and how all that worked. I know that
Phelan's book, _1-2-3 Magic_, was written as a behavioral plan to work
with kids that are ADD of some type and suggested he take a look at it.
After seeing what a difference the meds made, he's actually considering
it.
Karla
Geri and Brian wrote:
> It worries me a lot that we are now have to give a pretty fair amount of
> medication to achieve the same emotional behavior that was the unmedicated norm
> two years ago.
Geri, keep in mind that general behaviors that are acceptable for a four
year old is not the same as for a six year old. A four year old
throwing a tantrum is OK while a six year old throwing one is not. One
of the problems with SS was that, until kindergarden, some of his bad
behavior was considered OK. When other kids realized it wasn't OK, they
stopped. He didn't know how as he hadn't really been trained to
self-soothe (an area where we still have problems). When he came to
live with us, it was a real struggle. There are days where he still
just doesn't "get it" and days where he does. The days where he does
are increasing and I just keep hoping that he'll eventually get to a
point where he doesn't feel like the whole world could get ripped out
from under him again in a moment's notice.
Melody R Baugher
<bradforde...@chello.nl> wrote:
>My SD (11 in 3 weeks) learnt at her mum's that she could get away with
>lying. That's because BM never checked. BM lied to her too, so she sort of
>expects people to lie. She lied about stupid things too ("yes, I made my
>bed"). We believed her, at first, until I looked into her bedroom when I
>passed it and saw that her bed wasn't made. We caught her at more of these
>lies (and a couple of worse ones), and then we had a very serious talk with
>her, and told her that the worst thing she can do is lie. We told her that
>we never lie in our house. We made it very clear that lying would have very
>serious consequences. And (most importantly) we were very strict about it!
My SD used to lie quite a bit. I frequently gave her the line about
lies & trust. She also hated the checking up. Eventually I think she
decided that the lies weren't worth the energy of being checked up on
& the resulting punishment.
>She asked me why we always have to check her, and I told her the same as you
>(you've lied to us before, so we can't tell for sure whether you're lying or
>not). She said she hated the checking, and I said that the fastest way to
>get rid of it was never lie anymore.
Mine used to say she didn't like it when I didn't believe & generally
pitch a fit. But I didn't really react much except to say that if she
didn't lie, I would trust her & wouldn't have to check up on her -
making sure to stress that it was ultimately her choice that I had to
check up on her.
>The other day (when we were having one of our serious conversations) she
>asked me: "Do you trust me?" Very difficult question!! I said something
>like: "Of course I do! That's why it upsets me so much when you lie!" She
>then said:" Do you think I trust you?" I said: "You are the only one who can
>answer that. But I hope you do trust me, and I think you know that your dad
>and I will never lie to you." And then she said:" Yes, I know you won't. But
>other grown-ups do, you know, so that's why I sometimes think you do." I
>think she is slowly starting to see her mum's true colours, and she doesn't
>like it!
I recently got the "Do you trust me now?" too. I don't think I
handled it that well though because for one thing I still don't quite
trust her to not lie (so if I told her I trusted her it would have
been a lie). But I did explain that I understand that she was still
learning & would make mistakes sometimes.
>Things are slowly getting better, now that she's been away from BM for about
>6 months, and I do hope with all my heart that things don't go back to the
>way they were after she's come back from her 3 week visit to her mum next
>month.... (BM lives in another country)
>
>The other day, DH got her on a little lie again. We laughed our heads off
>about that one (SD did as well, after a couple of minutes). DH asked her:
>"Did you brush your teeth?" She said: "Yes!" DH: "What colour was the tooth
>paste?" SD: "White of course." DH: "Go and brush your teeth!" When she
>stopped moaning and went to brush her teeth, she saw that we had Blue Minty
>Gel instead of our normal white stuff!
For a while there I would make sure I had to go in the bathroom
(there's only the one) shortly after she'd had her shower but before
bed. A dry toothbrush does not lie. :) Then she would try to say
that she had dried it on her towel. This usually eventually got the
response "It won't hurt to brush them again. Go." LOL
Take care of yourself,
Melody
Geri and Brian
The thing that is really scary about it is that is can progress into a conduct
disorder, and that is bad news.
>It really bothered my brother that the doctor kept saying,
>"You know, you really ought to consider medication..." After an
>incident with my older nephew at summer camp last year (he apparently
>told a counselor where to shove it and began to walk home - oh yeah, he
>was all of 9 at the time), my brother finally relented.
>
>The difference really astounded him. He said if he hadn't seen it, he
>wouldn't have believed it. He's been talking to our aunt a bit more
>about what she did with our cousin and how all that worked. I know that
>Phelan's book, _1-2-3 Magic_, was written as a behavioral plan to work
>with kids that are ADD of some type and suggested he take a look at it.
>After seeing what a difference the meds made, he's actually considering
>it.
You know, before we got into all of this with SD, my thought about ODD was
pretty much that it was really bad parenting. Was I wrong about that, after
actually being involved with it.
Anyway, I am going to keep my eye out for that book. Thanks! :-)
Geri and Brian
>year old is not the same as for a six year old. A four year old
>throwing a tantrum is OK while a six year old throwing one is not.
I know. I was talking about the positive behaviors, actually. The thing is,
when she is medicated, she is congenial, helpful, (kind of a chatterbox, but in
a good way), really wants to please. Two years ago she didn't need medication
to be this nice. The changes are remarkable to see in action. When the meds
have worn off, she is argumentative (no matter what you say, she argues),
hateful, defiant.
Well, we will see how today goes with stepping up the medication. :-)
jane
>Week)
>From: we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk (Wendy)
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: 20 Jun 2001 06:24:25 GMT
>
>
> Children do
>occasionally wish things were simple like when they were babies, though.
Sometimes I STILL do.
>My teen has been known to look at photos of herself and wish she were still
>a baby, even though it would mean giving up lots of the things she does now.
>
I remember a teen fad a few years ago where everyone wore infant accessories -
baby pins, pacifiers, tiny bottles full of bubbles. IIRC, Ecstasy pretty much
put and end to it.
Anyway, it does seem pretty common for a kid to retreat briefly when something
new in her development or her life is unsettling.
jane
Melissa
>I remember a teen fad a few years ago where everyone wore infant accessories
>-
>baby pins, pacifiers, tiny bottles full of bubbles. IIRC, Ecstasy pretty
>much
>put and end to it.
My cousin got into this. I remember it drove her mother crazy.
jane
>Week)
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>
>
>
>>>Have you considered that she could be having auditory hallucinations?
>>
>>That sort of thing has pretty much been ruled out, at least so far.
>
>I would tack on here that one of my biggest fears is that there is something
>degenerative going on with her brain function that has not been identified
>yet.
> It worries me a lot that we are now have to give a pretty fair amount of
>medication to achieve the same emotional behavior that was the unmedicated
>norm
>two years ago.
>
>
I don't think that your fear is unfounded, either. Considering the
neurological impairment, drug side effects, drug interactions, and behavioral
issues, every change is potentially significant.
I'm not saying that you misread the situation with SD, but I still wouldn't
rule out the possibility that she was actually hearing something. It's so
difficult for kids her age to describe physical symptoms. I still remember how
frustrated I was trying to ask my mother why people salivate before I knew the
words for it. Is it possible that her demeanor could have been caused
annoyance, confusion, anxiety, or frustration?
I don't know why she's taking antipsychotics, but if this occurred when her
medication was wearing off, I think I'd investigate further. Has she ever
mentioned hearing things to her teachers?
Now, I'm wondering about tinnitus.
jane
Geri and Brian
Any physical ear problems were ruled out.
>Has she ever
>mentioned hearing things to her teachers?
We have had hearing evaluations (including by a specialist last year) on her
three or four times in the past couple of years. All were normal. We had this
done just during the whole battery of diagnostic testing done on her - not
because of any suspicion of a problem.
>I don't know why she's taking antipsychotics, but if this occurred when her
>medication was wearing off, I think I'd investigate further.
The Risperdal is an antipsychotic, but the reason she is taking that is because
her right temporal lobe has an approx. quarter sized area that is either
missing or so heavily scarred that there is no brain function there (the SPECT
scan made three dimensional pictures of her brain function at rest and during
activity and there is just a black hole there). It is used successfully in
children (especially with ODD) for curbing of aggressive behavior (and
defiance). The Neurontin she is on is an anticonvulsive, but has been used
successfully for mood disorders. (SD has cyclic mood disorder, which is
similar to being bipolar, but much more rapid. We can possibly anticipate also
treating bipolar disorder when she is older.) She is on the Adderall (which is
a blend of two amphetimines) for ADHD Type II. She is going to see the OT for
the Sensory Integration Disorder as soon as we can coordinate an appointment
(this is through the school district) with BM who keeps cancelling them. (To
explain SID, think about all the cars you pass driving to work, the signs, the
other stimuli. You probably can't remember most of it, because the brain
filters out what is not important. People with SID don't have that filter
working.) The docs also feel she has an Anxiety Disorder which these
medications also work on. We can reasonably expect that she may end up on five
or six medications by the time she is an adult.
We saw a program on ETV about a girl who had a rare kind of progressive
epilepsy that didn't show up until she was several years old. They ended up
taking out half her brain in order to stop it from eventually infiltrating the
whole brain. Epilepsy has been ruled out for SD, but I am just worried that we
still don't have all the answers about what is going on with her (and may not -
that they won't show up for a few years), and what effect puberty is going to
have, when she gets to that point.
She did do one thing at school a few weeks ago, on a Friday, which is
transition day (which may or may not be significant). She had had an excellent
week up till that point and was sent to the principal's office because some boy
bugged her and she told him she was going to kill him. When the principal
asked her how she would do that, she said she would cut out his guts with a
knife. We immedately called the psychiatrist over that, and he said he didn't
think the meds should be changed right then, but he did want us to investigate
a special school (for kids with behavior problems) down in Irvine by where
Brian works. There are only a few kids to a classroom, and they specialize in
kids with these problems. It is quite expensive, but if is determined that SD
needs to go there, the school district will cover it. Anyway, when we wrote to
BM and told her what the doctor said, that we had an appointment to just go and
check out the school, and invited her to also come along. We were specific
that we were not advocating any change in schools, etc., at this time. She
called them, canceled our appointment, made a lot of legal threats to the
school and basically had a coniption because that school is "too far for her to
drive". We rescheduled our appointment and will give her the information after
we have gone.
Anyway, after that incident she didn't have any more significant problems
during school. (Though "significant" is relative. During the IEP meeting the
teacher said she threw at least one tantrum a day, which to us is
unacceptable.)
chitcha...@webtv.net
all behaviors you spoke of are perfectly normal of a six year old.
Often children in a divorced situation feel that they should not speak
about the other parent. Perhaps your SD only talking about Mom during
troubled time is indeed her missing Mom - this is simply the only time
that she indicates her missing Mom. Wanting everything in sight at the
store is something most all children go through. Baby talk can indicate
many things, one simply being that a child is beginning to feel "grown
up" or feels the changes taking place either in behavior, or with
others' behavior towards them that indicates they are growing up. Baby
talk is a way to revert back to that comfortable time. Nothing wrong
with that, and she will quit in her own time. Most children exhibit
behaviors that are less than pleasing to us adults, that's just part of
being a child.
Geri and Brian
>troubled time is indeed her missing Mom - this is simply the only time
>that she indicates her missing Mom
Actually, she is free to call her mom any time she wants. She knows that. All
she has to do is ask and we dial the phone for her. (Thanks to her mom, its
long distance, too!) She went through a period several months ago where she
wanted to call her at least once during our custody weeks. She is pretty much
a live-in-the-moment type of kid, though.
>Most children exhibit
>behaviors that are less than pleasing to us adults, that's just part of
>being a child.
We understand that. We are asking what parenting tricks others have used to
live through these times.
Geri and Brian
>in her mind. It's not what you say, it's how you say it... All the
>non-verbal
>cues.
Maybe. This is the way it happens when she asks to call. We dial the number.
If her mom answers, we hand her the phone and we leave the room so it doesn't
seem to her like we are eavesdropping on the call.
If she asks to make the call, we make the call. We have even stopped shopping
a couple of times to make the call. She went through a phase where she was
"worried" about her mom being alone and for a couple of weeks, called her two
or three times during the week. Often her mom is not home when she calls. We
have explained to her (1) that when she is not with us and when she not with
her mom, that sometimes we have to get the grown-up things done, too, and we do
them during that time; and (2) that she doesn't need to be worried about the
grown-ups, that we can all take care of ourselves and her job is to just be a
kid.
This seemed to relax her a little bit about it, at least.
We have never tried to hide that we don't get along with her mom from her. It
would be a lie. We told her that sometimes grown-ups don't get along, and that
if her dad and her mom had been able to get along, they would still be
together. (Brian used an analogy of this girl, Amber, at her preschool who
used to fight with her all the time, and how she could never get along with
Amber. Then we asked her if she would like to live in the same house with
Amber. She said no.) But we told her that just because we don't get along with
her mom, it has nothing to do with her and that she can still love anyone she
wants. She doesn't have to choose.
She is very much an in-the-moment kid, though. Right at this moment, the only
thing she is worried about is finishing her popsicle (we made popsicles out of
juice yesterday, which she had never done before) and going to the beach.
Barbera Wallace
> For a while there I would make sure I had to go in the bathroom
> (there's only the one) shortly after she'd had her shower but before
> bed. A dry toothbrush does not lie. :) Then she would try to say
> that she had dried it on her towel. This usually eventually got the
> response "It won't hurt to brush them again. Go." LOL
In the beginning I used to check whether her toothbrush was wet, too. She
expected me to do that the next time, so then she actually went into the
bathroom and held her toothbrush under the tap. Too smart! At first, I
explained that all this faking cost more time than the actual brushing, and
that this wasn't a game. This didn't really help either. The next couple of
days one of us went into the bathroom with her, and watched her brush, but
we realised this was not the answer either of course. Finally I bought some
of those red tablets. You have to suck on them after you've brushed your
teeth and then all the places you've missed turn red. That's were all the
bacteria still are. She was shocked when she saw the result! Every now and
then we gently remind her of all the bacteria, and that helps!
--
Barbera Wallace
What does a slightly insane Englishman think of the Dutch?
To find out, visit the Dutch & Such website:
http://funny.as/dutchmen
Geri and Brian
It was heavenly. I am sure I will be back in the next few days. (There are so
few joys to living out here that one must indulge in what one can.) :-)
chitcha...@webtv.net
I think it's wonderful that you tell your SD she may call Mom anytime;
however that doesn't mean she feels that she truly can. Having your Dad
and Stepmom say you can is altogether different than truly feeling that
you can. I know, I'm a child of divorce.
I'm also glad that you understand that the behavior your SD is
exhibiting is normal six year old behavior. I understand that you are
wanting 'tips' on how to handle it. I was only explaining the normality
of this behavior because your post didn't seem to indicate that you
indeed understood that this behavior was normal and typical of six year
olds, and children in general. Moreover, the best tips that anyone can
give is that of understanding - understanding that the behavior is
typical and normal.
By the way, many (I included) would construe SD's story of the clouds
talking not as a lie, but as a sweet figment of imagination; one that
demonstrates a healthy imagination! The best part of childhood is that
of imagination, and if encouraged, imagination can lead to a world of
opportunity.
chitcha...@webtv.net
I agree completely. Even in the very best situations - one in which Mom
and Dad have absolutely no ill feelings towards each other, get along
wonderfully - the child/children will probably still feel somewhat
apprehensive about calling, talking about freely, the other parent.
Their are so many issues a child has to deal with when their parents
seperate. Guilt being the biggest. If I call Mom will Dad secretly be
upset? Will he feel I don't love him as much as Mom? Will he feel that
he's not making me happy enough at his house? If I call Mom will it
make her miss me even more? Will she be upset if I sound too happy?
Will she be upset if I don't sound happy enough? Been there, done that,
and it's horrible. Still gives me chills when I think about it - and
I'm 26 now with a child of my own.
Melody R Baugher
<bradforde...@chello.nl> wrote:
>
>> For a while there I would make sure I had to go in the bathroom
>> (there's only the one) shortly after she'd had her shower but before
>> bed. A dry toothbrush does not lie. :) Then she would try to say
>> that she had dried it on her towel. This usually eventually got the
>> response "It won't hurt to brush them again. Go." LOL
>
>In the beginning I used to check whether her toothbrush was wet, too. She
>expected me to do that the next time, so then she actually went into the
>bathroom and held her toothbrush under the tap. Too smart! At first, I
>explained that all this faking cost more time than the actual brushing, and
>that this wasn't a game. This didn't really help either. The next couple of
>days one of us went into the bathroom with her, and watched her brush, but
>we realised this was not the answer either of course. Finally I bought some
>of those red tablets. You have to suck on them after you've brushed your
>teeth and then all the places you've missed turn red. That's were all the
>bacteria still are. She was shocked when she saw the result! Every now and
>then we gently remind her of all the bacteria, and that helps!
My kid's whole mouth could turn red & she would still insist that she
had brushed. :) Luckily she tends to brush her teeth while trying to
watch TV (or is that tries to brush her teeth while watching TV). I'm
a wandering brusher too so I can't fault her for not staying in the
bathroom - I just have to pace while I brush my teeth. Now the
problem is that she gets distracted by the TV & stops brushing. Such
is life. :) We're mostly concentrating on the fact that this kid can
mash a brush flat in 2 weeks - she's brushing way too hard so we
remind her, the dentist talked with her about it, & she does sometimes
show us her brush to prove that it's not flat yet. :)
lilblakdog
news:9gvm6...@drn.newsguy.com...
> We never once volunteered to
> pick up the phone *before* the kids asked, and call their mom.
This is such a scary line to cross, though. Last year we took stepson
camping and everything was going great--he was having a great time. We
always have him send his mom postcards from wherever we stop, for any length
of time, but that afternoon he even said that he didn't want to bother so
soon after the last one. That evening Rob asked him if he wanted to call
his mother and I knew it was a bad idea immediately--we hadn't even been
gone a week, and he wasn't even thinking along those lines (he *is* the kind
of kid who would say so). Ten minutes on the phone with his mother and we
had waterworks. Waterworks closely bordering on hysteria that ruined
everything we had planned for him--for the entire rest of the evening and
into the next day. She *really* missed him and she *really* hated him being
gone all the time and the other kids were having *so* much fun and they
*really* missed him too and *really* hated him being gone and it was *so*
lonely there without him.
When the mother is good at pulling all the right strings and pushing all the
right buttons, it's hard to say, "<stepson>'s just having way to good a
time...I think it's time to call his mom."
lil
http://lilblakdog.tripod.com
---
"It's hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone." --
Blue Rodeo
Anne Haas
>occasionally wish things were simple like when they were babies, though.
Only children? :-)
AnneH
"To the world you might be one person, but to one person you might
be the world."
Anne Haas
>thing. This she presented like it was a fact and completely true. I didn't
>have time to get into a huge discussion about it at the moment and kind of
>changed the subject.
>
But as she gets older & matures, the fantasyland changes. Aren't your
fantasies different than when you were a child? (not THOSE types of fantasies,
folks)
Anne Haas
>definitely we would do when school starts, but Brian did not want to do
>during
>the summer. I feel like the Adderall works with the Risperdal together to
>keep
>is
>ugly, hateful, out of control stuff) at bay. Anyway, after this afternoon I
>convinced Brian that we need to give it during the afternoon, too. Within
>the
>hour after she took it, she was a completely different, nice, reasonable kid.
>
>I have all kinds of patience with kids and today I absolutely had steam
>coming
>out my ears, so I am glad he agreed.
>
Good thing. I wonder how Brian would feel if he were the one taking care of
her on a daily basis and had to deal with a behavior which could be easily
controlled.
Ideally, no child should have to be on meds. And yes, there are many children
who are over-medicated or who shouldn't been on meds at all. That is NOT the
case with your SD. Not giving that afternoon dose is emotionally harmful to
your SD because there is some behaviors she just can't control. If she could,
the meds would be a moot point, right?
This could be a great chance to help your SD start learning to watch her own
behavior and to learn when these types of meds would be necessary to take.
Maybe the daycare can help with that, too.
Anne Haas
>mommy call your daddy and tell him she thinks it's okay and then we'll talk
>about it" but "How wonderful that your mommy lets you do that, I don't"
>works pretty okay too. It's all about testing boundaries.
Ain't that the truth??? For a lot of reasons, we've had virtually no contact
with DH's younger daughter until recently. SD (13) & one of her friends were
here for 2 weeks. One of the first days, we were grocery shopping. Some of
DH's favorite beer was on sale, so I went down the beer aisle to get him some.
SD asked if they could have wine coolers. I told her she would have to ask her
dad (wasn't it a nice convenience that I forgot the phone in the car?). The
subject never came back up, even though they had been to the store a couple
more times with DH.
Anne Haas
>degenerative going on with her brain function that has not been identified
>yet.
> It worries me a lot that we are now have to give a pretty fair amount of
>medication to achieve the same emotional behavior that was the unmedicated
>norm
>two years ago.
>
What does the doctor(s) say about it?
Geri and Brian
That it isn't impossible.
Geri and Brian
>your SD because there is some behaviors she just can't control. If she
>could,
>the meds would be a moot point, right?
She doesn't seem to be able to at this point in time. Having seen this in
action, basically what happens is that she gets more and more argumentative and
out of control. When she is medicated, she shows no signs of being "drugged"
and is really a pleasant, fairly reasonable person to be around.
>This could be a great chance to help your SD start learning to watch her own
>behavior and to learn when these types of meds would be necessary to take.
That is something we will work on - if we can get her to notice when these
behaviors start up.
>Maybe the daycare can help with that, too.
>
I am not too optimistic about that. They have a bunch of kids and the people
who work there do not seem to be at the top of the foodchain. But, if they at
least remember to give her the medications, it will be a start.
Anne Haas
>>
>I am not too optimistic about that. They have a bunch of kids and the people
>who work there do not seem to be at the top of the foodchain. But, if they
>at
>least remember to give her the medications, it will be a start.
>
I like that about the food chain. DH calls those type "the great unwashed
masses". His favorite target being the folks who answer the phones at the
medical insurance office.
One would hope, though, that if the behavior was causing problems for the staff
and for the other children, the staff would remember to give SD the medication.
Could you call for 21 days and remind them when the time approaches? Would
you want to?
Anne Haas
me, three.
Geri and Brian
>
>me, three.
The beach on Friday was fabulous. After we got home I cleaned SD up and
dropped her off at our old sitter, which is the exchange point that BM could
pick her up from.
Today we were going to the QM park for the Bayou Festival to sit out in the
mid-80 degree sunny weather and listen to zydeco music with our favorite
steamship as a backdrop, but when we got there it cost $24 a person. Now we
have certainly paid more than this for events we have attended (even regular
Sunday brunch on the QM is more) but that seemed a little steep for something
we can see for free on another weekend a few miles away. So we drove over to
Seal Beach and happened to find an old time movie theater playing,
"Casablanca". So we decided to go see it. Afterward, this guy came rolling
out on this huge round organ (think Phantom of the Opera or Vincent Price) and
they showed two silent movies. That was kind of a preview because the theater
is having silent movie Mondays for the whole summer.
After that we went and walked around Seal Beach, got an ice cream and walked
out on the pier and generally looked around. The beach there is really nice -
we had not been to that beach before. Actually, in looking around we thought
what a nice place it would be to live and closer to work as well - too bad BM
had to move her sorry butt so far inland. :-( Anyway, on the way home we
stopped and hung out in the big Long Beach B & N and looked at books for a
while and then came hope. It was a nice day, and nice recovery from not
getting to do what we had planned. :-)
(I think I am going back over to beach at SB one day this week, and check out
the shops, sans Brian and SD!)
Kathleen and Steve
Let's go Anne!! I slid into a sweet deal this year and got a house in Port
Aransas for the year. 3 bedrooms, A/C works.... although it is nothing
like the beach on the east coast...
hugs, Kathleen
lilblakdog
news:20010625002246...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
> So we drove over to
> Seal Beach and happened to find an old time movie theater playing,
> "Casablanca". So we decided to go see it. Afterward, this guy came
rolling
> out on this huge round organ (think Phantom of the Opera or Vincent Price)
and
> they showed two silent movies. That was kind of a preview because the
theater
> is having silent movie Mondays for the whole summer.
Okay, now *I'm* jealous!
I have tons of silent movies on video--dozens--and I've never seen any of
them. I can't just sit and watch a movie; I'm fidgety and have to be doing
needlework or something at the same time. So reading a movie is impossible,
and my silent ones all sit unwatched with the subtitled ones.
Movie theatres I can do. I don't know why--they're just different. I would
kill for all of my favorite silents to be playing in a theatre where I can
just sit in the dark and enjoy them. *Especially* when they play along with
them.
Geri and Brian
>kill for all of my favorite silents to be playing in a theatre where I can
>just sit in the dark and enjoy them. *Especially* when they play along with
>them.
I am looking forward to "Nosferatu" and "Phantom of the Opera". (I saw
"Phantom" the first time in high school - the silent version is still my
favorite.)
Deborah M Riel
Geri and Brian <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote:
>>ODD can be a scary, scary thing.
>
>The thing that is really scary about it is that is can progress into a conduct
>disorder, and that is bad news.
>
I have a 14.5 yr old son with the diagnosis of ADHD, ODD and NLD. From
everything I've read about ODD, if it doesn't progress into Conduct Disorder
within a couple of years after diagnosis, it won't go that route. My son fits
the profile of ODD, but doesn't come close to CD. CD is more along the lines of
cruel behavior lacking in conscience, or fire-setting, or real criminal assault
or theft. ODD is more argumentative, stubborn and blaming others for one's
misdeeds. Annoying stuff, rather than calculating and dangerous.
Another thing to keep in mind about kids with ADHD is that they typically run
about 3 years behind their peers socially. So, behavior you see in your 6.5 yr
old SD may be roughly equivalent to a 3.5 or 4 yr old with typical brain
chemistry.
It's tough to keep your cool, I know. A person with ODD typically picks a person
or setting to act out with or in. That person or setting may well be the one
where the kid with ODD feels most at home. Then they let you have it! Response
is rewarding, even negative response, and they'll keep it up 'til they get a
response. It can be relentless, and hugely frustrating.
>You know, before we got into all of this with SD, my thought about ODD was
>pretty much that it was really bad parenting. Was I wrong about that, after
>actually being involved with it.
This is so common, and very disheartening. I don't know how many times I've
heard "I'd *never* let my child get away with *that*!" or "why do you *let* him
do that?" or "I'd just (fill in the blank) and he'd never do *that* again!"
The worst is when you hear someone so knowingly say that all these diagnoses are
just an excuse, and kids didn't use to act like that--all they need is a good
spanking. Sure. Right. Let 'em try! Parents of ADHD/ODD/NLD younameit
kids have to be the most exhausted, frustrated, hard-working and dedicated
parents in the world (if they are taking it seriously).
And step-parents or adoptive parents who
truely care about children with these problems and hang in there have to be very
brave (or crazy!).
1-2-3 Magic worked well for my son while he was younger. They recommend it up
to age 12, I think.
My mantra is "choose your battles." Sometimes I can get it to work for me, but
other times *everything* seems to be a battle. I keep praying for maturity--his
and mine!
I don't know if this post will go through--I mostly lurk here because for some
reason or another, my posts don't show up on most servers.
Deb
lilblakdog
news:9h7rkb$e1a$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU...
> Another thing to keep in mind about kids with ADHD is that they typically
run
> about 3 years behind their peers socially. So, behavior you see in your
6.5 yr
> old SD may be roughly equivalent to a 3.5 or 4 yr old with typical brain
> chemistry.
REALLY???
Now this I've never noticed. Perhaps we have a rash of misdiagnosed kids up
here (not something that would surprise me in the least, since every second
one of them seems to be on Ritalin), but all the kids I've met with ADD/ADHD
have struck me as having *overly* mature thoughts and opinions and stuff.
My niece in particular. She's hyper, definitely, but not immature socially
or intellectually. Quite the opposite.
I'm not doubting you--anybody who has kids with that many abreviations
(acronyms?) after their name probably knows what they're talking about--but
it does make me wonder about some of these kids I know. Strange.
Geri and Brian
>up
>to age 12, I think.
I will check this out.
>And step-parents or adoptive parents who
>truely care about children with these problems and hang in there have to be
>very
>brave (or crazy!).
I think it might be choice #2. :-)
>My mantra is "choose your battles." Sometimes I can get it to work for me,
>but
>other times *everything* seems to be a battle. I keep praying for
>maturity--his
>and mine!
I know that's right. I have found that my best response is a non-response,
which means usually SD goes into the corner and I go into my room. That is the
only way to get her to shut her mouth when she is like this.
Thanks for the advice. :-)
Anne Haas
>the shops, sans Brian and SD!)
SB? Santa Barbara?
Geri and Brian
>
Seal Beach. It is a small town between Long Beach and Huntington Beach.
Anne Haas
>Aransas for the year. 3 bedrooms, A/C works.... although it is nothing
>like the beach on the east coast...
>hugs, Kathleen
>
Tell me when, hun. I'll even drive if you want. If you want to wait until
just after July 4th, I think younger SD will be here. Or you wanna make it
just the "girls"?
Email me & we will make arrangements.
AnneH
(who was just thinking about you today, Kathleen. ran across your numbers
while cleaning out my wallet. kept them, of course.)
Deborah M Riel
the subject) called "Teenagers With ADD: A Parents' Guide (The Special-Needs
Collection)" by Chris Zeigler Dendy. They make this point about being about 3
years behind peers socially. This is not to say that my son doesn't sometimes
behave or speak in a very mature fashion, because he does. It's probably that
because of his inability to effectively control his attention he lacks the
social awareness of his peers. He can talk with perfect strangers in a very
adult way, and once in a while, I get this too. He can be very insightful.
But, when he's not controlling his behavior due to a new environment, or an
unfamiliar person, he can act like a much younger kid. He is overly loud,
pushes into other people's personal space, and is self-centered. He doesn't
respond to people telling him to stop doing the annoying stuff. He doesn't see
that it's annoying. He has a tendency to throw hissy fits when he's not getting
his way. Kid stuff. It's kind of a lack of finesse socially. He has other
ADHD friends who have similar behavior socially, and he has other friends who
are not ADHD. I can clearly see the difference. Of course he *is* a boy, and
has certain boy-like behaviors that you may not see in your niece. And also he
has the diagnoses of ODD and NLD which also have a social aspect to them.
All in all, I believe the 3 years behind socially that is presented in this
book. I'd say they're right on target. Of course not everyone is the same,
ADHD or not, and all kids progress at different rates of maturity with lots of
stops and starts along the way. Maybe with his teenage growth spurt he'll get a
maturity spurt as well and catch up :-)
Deb
James and Lacy W
for me that was not true. I was the secondgrader hanging out with the
highschool kids talking about books i've read and things i've done. Another
thin, PLEASE, DO NOT GIVE YOUR CHILDREN RITILAN. It's not the babysitter
drug everyone thinks it is... I am from the first wave of diagnosed "lifer"
ritilan users. The drug alters your emotions, changes your personality. A
lot of the kids i grew up with were "Lifers" All of us felt like we had this
conflict within, that we weren't being accepted for who we were, because our
parents and teachers couldn't stand us. The ritilan was proof "your acting
up, it's time for your medication" "I'm sorry Lace, it looks like you're
going to need the ritilan for the rest of your life" "It's okay if you stay
the night with my daughtor, as long as you take your medication." I broke
free when i took control of my life.. I overcame ADHD with flying colors,
and with proper counceling, your child can too. I suggest looking into your
local chapter of CHADD, put for the love of god, no ritilan.
Vicki Robinson
<you said that children with add, or adhd run 3 years behind socially, well
<for me that was not true. I was the secondgrader hanging out with the
<highschool kids talking about books i've read and things i've done. Another
<thin, PLEASE, DO NOT GIVE YOUR CHILDREN RITILAN.
Lacy, that may be your experience, and I don't doubt that you're being
totally honest. However, it's a mistake to say that all children on
ritalin are being chemically babysat, and that it's wrong to give
it to them. My nephew's experience was exactly the counter of yours;
he likes it, because he finally feels like a "normal" kid. It frees
him of some impulsive behavior, allows him to concentrate long enough
to finish an assignment and allows him to really be himself socially
and educationally.
He doesn't take it all the time (he's almost 17, so he can decide),
but he takes it for school and sometimes in other situations. He
doesn't feel "babysat", he feels as though it helps him control his
responses to his environment in ways that other people do, and that he
never could. His behavior made him feel more "other" than any
mediation ever could, but the ritalin gives him the self-control he
needs.
There is no question that some kids are inappropriately medicated, but
don't paint with such a broad brush. Ritalin can be a valuable aid in
helping a child control his own life.
Vicki
--
Family and Divorce Mediation Resources
http://xcski.com/~mediator/
James and Lacy W
"you're not normal" and "take this to be like everyone else" I was
terrified to be like everyone else... Maybe if children (and adults as well)
would learn to accept others for who they are rather than trying to change
them, so many things could be avoided.
"Vicki Robinson" <vjr...@xcski.com> wrote in message
news:9h8hhr$b2g$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
Vicki Robinson
<and that is what i'm saying, by putting children on ritilan you are saying
<"you're not normal" and "take this to be like everyone else" I was
<terrified to be like everyone else... Maybe if children (and adults as well)
<would learn to accept others for who they are rather than trying to change
<them, so many things could be avoided.
I don't think it's reasonable, though, to accept a child as he is when
it involves not being able to tolerate *any* frustration at all; 30
seconds into his homework he was in tears, insisting that he couldn't
do it. He was prey to bizarre imaginings that prevented him from
enjoying life.
What kind of career could he hope for? It's not a matter of
acceptance to be able to hold a job; you have to have skills and know
how to apply them and have the discipline to do so. An employee who
breaks down at any small obstacle isn't going to be employable.
I reiterate, my nephew was NOT terrified to be like other kids, he
wanted to fit in. Not as a robot or a faceless cog in the Eternal
Machine, but as a boy who could concentrate, achieve and enjoy his
life. How is this a bad thing? "Who he was" could not do these
things, and they are undeniably necessary to have even a shot at an
independent life.
Anne Haas
>don't paint with such a broad brush. Ritalin can be a valuable aid in
>helping a child control his own life.
Very true. My younger brother no longer uses it, but was on it as a child &
younger teen. It saved him. At the time he was diagnosed with ADHD (plus 8
out of 14 other learning disabilities know of at the time), the doctors told
our mother that he ought to be institutionalized because he would never
function as a "normal, human adult." He is now a merchant seaman and at one
time, was licensed to captain everything except super tankers & passenger
liners. Maybe a seaman isn't a "normal, human adult." :-)
AnneH
Melissa
>"you're not normal" and "take this to be like everyone else"
Is that what you say when you give them antibiotics? How about insulin?
>Maybe if children (and adults as well)
>would learn to accept others for who they are rather than trying to change
>them, so many things could be avoided.
Ritalin and other ADD drugs are not meant to make a person socially accpetable,
rather to help them function. My mother found out that she had it as an adult.
Dexidrine changed her life completely. She no longer has to deal with the day
to day hell that ADD can put you through.
Love,
Melissa
"Being a Grown up is a bitch sometimes."
-V. Robinson
James and Lacy W
talking about things you have no personal experience with.
"Melissa " <laa...@aol.comspamfree> wrote in message
news:20010625220724...@ng-fg1.aol.com...
Anne Haas
>Do you really view adhd as a disease? It's a personality flaw, sort of like
>talking about things you have no personal experience with.
First of all, it's not a "personality flaw". It is a physical problem.
Secondly, do not come in here as a newbie and bitch at someone who has had
different experiences, but still personal, than you have had.
Hilander
news:a6TZ6.2375$oJ2.2...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> Do you really view adhd as a disease? It's a personality flaw, sort of
like
> talking about things you have no personal experience with.
ADHD and ADD are disorders with a physiological basis. It is not a
personality 'flaw'. My brother, my son and I are not 'flawed', thank you
very much. We have physiological differences to the 'average' person and
those differences can manifest themselves in different ways. Medication
didn't help you, fine. But it has meant the difference between life and
death for my son and been a benefit to my family members. I don't give a
rat's ass about how he 'appears socially' to others, I do care deeply about
the lack of impulse control that had him routinely in the ER when untreated.
I do care how he feels about himself and life.
Perhaps you need to educate yourself more on exactly what the disorder
really is and stop reading Scientology propaganda.
Tea
Hilander
news:a6TZ6.2375$oJ2.2...@dfiatx1-snr1.gtei.net...
> talking about things you have no personal experience with.
You also wrote previously:
>I overcame ADHD with flying colors,
>and with proper counceling, your child can too.
Your outburst at the beginning of this message would demonstrate that you
haven't overcome ADHD with flying colors.
Tea
Geri and Brian
>talking about things you have no personal experience with.
Wrong. It is a brain dysfunction. We have the SPECT pictures of my SD's brain
which the specialists used as a diagnostic tool to show it.
Anne Robotti
this almost has to be a troll.
Anne
Karla
James and Lacy W wrote:
>
> and that is what i'm saying, by putting children on ritilan you are saying
> "you're not normal" and "take this to be like everyone else" I was
> terrified to be like everyone else... Maybe if children (and adults as well)
> would learn to accept others for who they are rather than trying to change
> them, so many things could be avoided.
Putting aside the physical problems of not giving a child meds, you do
more harm than good psychologically (IMNSHO) with that kind of thinking.
You know it's all in how you present it. My son has to take steroids to
control his kidney problems. He's *not* like everyone else, but that
doesn't mean he's bad or defective, only that he has be a little more
aware about things other kids don't have to think about. On the other
hand, he has friends on Ritalin or Addoral, on inhalers for asthma,
checking glucose levels (there's a diabetic in his class), etc. Some
kids are perfectly "normal" (whatever that may be).
In our attempts to make everyone feel good about themselves, we're
making them feel more and more insecure about not being "normal" rather
than being able to just be themselves.
I'm not saying put everyone on meds. I'm saying that if you need them,
you need them and to develop a fear of being "different" than everyone
else is a bad reason to withhold meds.
--
karla
I never expected there to be a blue light special on enlightenment -
Greg Brown
Karla
James and Lacy W wrote:
> talking about things you have no personal experience with.
A personality flaw? Are you serious?
ADD (and most of it's variants) come from the way the blood flows
through a specific part of the brain. Drugs, such as ritalin, allow the
blood flow normally through that part of the brain so that the person
with ADD is able to do things many of us take for granted.
Let me guess, next you'll be saying that depression is really just a
lack of will and all a person needs is a good swift kick in the behind
to get off the pity pot...
Karla
Anne Robotti wrote:
>
> Tea, I hate to see you opening your heart and sharing personal experiences,
> this almost has to be a troll.
I suspect you're right Anne, the first post smelled a bit troll like but
I was willing to give it the benefit of the doubt.
I wonder if this is born2shop coming back for more attention.
Karla
Anne Haas wrote:
> Very true. My younger brother no longer uses it, but was on it as a child &
> younger teen. It saved him. At the time he was diagnosed with ADHD (plus 8
> out of 14 other learning disabilities know of at the time), the doctors told
> our mother that he ought to be institutionalized because he would never
> function as a "normal, human adult." He is now a merchant seaman and at one
> time, was licensed to captain everything except super tankers & passenger
> liners. Maybe a seaman isn't a "normal, human adult." :-)
I'll add him to the list. My aunt & uncle were told to teach my cousin
a trade as he'd never graduate from high school. He graduated from law
school with a speciality in Business law and works for one of the big
three car companies in Detroit.
Vicki Robinson
<I'll add him to the list. My aunt & uncle were told to teach my cousin
<a trade as he'd never graduate from high school. He graduated from law
<school with a speciality in Business law and works for one of the big
<three car companies in Detroit.
<
My nephew is earning straight As in high school, despite his
difficulties.
Hilander
news:3B386ACE...@lightspeedcommunications.net...
> Tea, I hate to see you opening your heart and sharing personal
experiences,
> this almost has to be a troll.
I was thinking the same thing.
I figured that for the benefit of parents/caregivers that are medicating
children that I'd share. There is no need to feel shame or embarassment.
The 'no med' arguement [as well as the ADHD/ADD doesn't exist arguement] has
been on for over 30 years. It's become a mosquito in the dark to me. You
know you're never going to find it and squish it. You try and tell yourself
to ignore the buzzing and get to sleep. But, but, I still lie awake
thinking that if I can just pinpoint where the sound is coming from and move
fast enough then I'll get it. Rarely ever works. *grin*
Tea
Melissa
>talking about things you have no personal experience with.
I have lots of experience with ADD. I have ADD, and ADHD. I've also taken
ritalin, but before everyone and their mother was on ritalin.
I haven't taken medication in over 5 years though.
There's a book about ADD which you might want to read. It's called "You mean
I'm not lazy crazy or stupid." It really debunks the myths alot of people have
about ADD and ritalin.
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
One origin is the $cieno camp. Thankfully, the courts have laughed
their anti-ADD lawsuits right out of court.
--
Kitten
= = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = = =
I'm a bitch, I'm a lover; I'm a child, I'm a mother
I'm a sinner, I'm a saint; I do not feel ashamed
I'm your hell, I'm you dream; I'm nothing in between
You know you wouldn't want it any other way
-
- - Meredith Brooks
Melissa
>this almost has to be a troll.
>
>Anne
No, but she might be younger. Maybe 18 or 19.
Melissa
>
Right. I am not sure what the AMA considers it. Geri, Didi you guys know??
>Secondly, do not come in here as a newbie and bitch at someone who has had
>different experiences, but still personal, than you have had.
It's OK I didn't take it personally, but thanks for the defense Anne.
Melissa
>haven't overcome ADHD with flying colors.
>
LOL.
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
>
> talking about things you have no personal experience with.
ADHD is neither a disease nor a personality flaw. It is simply a
difference in physical brain structure and functioning.
Geri and Brian
We were told that for special ed purposes it is classified as ADHD Type I (what
we think of as "hyperactivity) and ADHD Type II (what we think of as ADD or the
"dreamy" type). I don't have any of literature about this classification
change. (Brian might have something stashed somewhere.) In any case, there
is a tried and true way to see if Ritalin or Adderall or the other meds are
effective for the particular child that is apparent pretty fast. These meds
are basically like "speed". You place a normal child on them and they are up
the walls. You place a child with ADHD on them and you see improvement in
behavior. (My SD has actually taken a nap an hour after taking her Adderall on
a couple of occasions.)
Anne Haas
>
>I'll add him to the list. My aunt & uncle were told to teach my cousin
>a trade as he'd never graduate from high school. He graduated from law
>school with a speciality in Business law and works for one of the big
>three car companies in Detroit.
>
Yeah, but, Karla, everyone knows that lawyers aren't normal.
AnneH
(ducking & just playing)
Anne Haas
>>different experiences, but still personal, than you have had.
>
>It's OK I didn't take it personally, but thanks for the defense Anne.
Didn't think you would, hun, but I did on your behalf. :-)
I really shouldn't let fools get to me.
AnneH
Karla
Anne Haas wrote:
>
> Yeah, but, Karla, everyone knows that lawyers aren't normal.
Hey, at least he learned a trade... ;)
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
>
<snipped>
>
> ADD (and most of it's variants) come from the way the blood flows
> through a specific part of the brain. Drugs, such as ritalin, allow the
> blood flow normally through that part of the brain so that the person
> with ADD is able to do things many of us take for granted.
>
Uhm, Karla? Hate to say this, but... Cite, please?
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
>
<snipped>
> Perhaps you need to educate yourself more on exactly what the disorder
> really is and stop reading Scientology propaganda.
>
> Tea
You tell 'em!!
Caitriona Mac Fhiodhbhuidhe
>
I don't. My 11yo son takes Concerta (which contains the same medicine
found in Ritalin, methylphenidate, but in a 12-hr, time-released osmotic
delivery system) because *HE* wants to, because *HE* likes being able to
focus and pay attention to what's going on around him, because *HE*
likes being able to play with his friends without making them mad
because he ran over them without even knowing it, because *HE* likes the
results.
It's always *HIS* decision to take his meds. The times in the past
school year when he thought he'd learned enough coping techniques to be
able to handle school without his Concerta, he came in from school
telling me he wasn't going to do that again for a while, that he didn't
yet have the skills he needed to be able to focus as he needs to.
Vicki Robinson
<It's always *HIS* decision to take his meds. The times in the past
<school year when he thought he'd learned enough coping techniques to be
<able to handle school without his Concerta, he came in from school
<telling me he wasn't going to do that again for a while, that he didn't
<yet have the skills he needed to be able to focus as he needs to.
My nephew decided to put off getting his driver's license just for
that reason. He thought he was too distractible to be safe.