is it just me....?
Merrie
son that exhibits the "I like/need this, it's mine" type toddler
behavior and one that doesn't. I'll even confess now that I was a bit
like that with my Mom's stuff but rarely bothered Dad's stuff because he
didn't have anything I liked. I didn't think it bothered my Mom.
My friend's counselor said that with teens you should just do it right
back to them. If they change your radio station in the kitchen, go in
their room and change it on theirs, rummage through their bathroom
drawer and take all the shades you like...
Come to think of it I do remember groaning at my mother in the early
morning when I discovered her digging through my closet looking for a
blouse...
Merrie
Northrnwmn wrote:
>
> I have a question for all step-parents out there. I have been reading a lot
> over the past few months in this newsgroup and I am beginning to think that I
> am not alone out there re:step-children taking things without asking. I know
> that bio children do this too but I am noticing a lot of step-parents
> commenting on this problem.
>
> My SD is almost 19 and things have been going very well over the past year or
> so after 3 years of difficult times when she first came to live with us. What I
> continue to notice is this: she helps herself to many things (personal and
> household) of mine but she doesn't do this with her dad. I have talked to her
> about this MANY times because I get frustrated when I reach for something,
> particularly personal, and find not only that it is not there but she may have
> even taken it somewhere away from home and not returned it. I can't decide if
> she feels more freedom to take my things because we are both women (she really
> enjoys hair things, perfume etc.) or because it is more acceptable to her to
> take things from me because I'm her step-mom. (Bare in mind she doesn't
> generally do this with her father).
> This isn't a huge deal because we've talked about it again (and she stopped)
> AND she's off to college in 3 weeks but I'm curious about others' experiences
> with this. Anyone having similar problems with a step-child?
>
> Sandy
Northrnwmn
Telewriter
As a matter of fact I just went through this today, and it's not the first
time. My ss, who lives with us, took something from my dresser drawer and
put it in his bag and took it to his biomom's for the weekend. I found it in
his bag today when he came home. It's a cosmetic item -- those pore-cleaning
strips! This infuriates me, not because of the item, but the principle.
First of all, how did he know the box was in that drawer? It's not as if I
slap porecleaning strips on my face when anyone's around! The only way he
could have found them is by rummaging through my dresser drawer looking
for....what?? The box happens to be in a drawer where I keep sleeveless
tops, etc. BUT...he has also been in my underwear drawer previously. I have
"hidden" things in my dresser drawers in the misguided belief that they
would not be found -- I feel so violated now. Nothing that I've hidden is
illegal, bad, prurient, but it is private -- things like the audio tapes
where we've recorded his biomom's vicious conversations, copies of notes she
has sent to him, etc.
I told dh about this tonight when he came home, and begged dh to let me
handle it MY way this time -- I want to give ss a chance to put the box of
porecleaning strips back, THEN nail him on it (while dh is present, of
course). He is a habitual liar and recently has just been ignoring what he's
been told to do, lied about things we know he has done, etc....and shows no
remorse.
So, I want to confront him on the theft (no matter how you cut it, it's
theft as far as I'm concerned, whether it's a porecleaning strip or a
diamond ring), and then dh will put locks on our bedroom door and on the
room I use for a little "getaway room", where the computer is, my desk,
papers etc.
My level of trust in this child has diminished rapidly, especially over the
past month or so, and today's discovery really slammed shut the door to my
trust, faith, belief in him.
We too talked with ss the last time he took something of mine, and believed
he had stopped -- but obviously that did no good.
It's very frustrating to have someone living here who exhibits these
characteristics, to say the least. He is 16, by the way.
EveDalton
was nicely explained to her that my things were not to be taken (stolen)
without asking, items (especially clothing) would be missing. So slowly, first
with the master br we started putting key locks on the interior doors. We have
still had many problems with her being grounded from the phone and breaking
into our bedroom, via the roof to a second floor balcony and stealing keys to
unlock doors. I still don't feel as though there is any privacy from sd, she
snoops through everything as though she has the right. Her Dad feels exactly
the same and that is one of the only things to make the situation bearable. I
am also the evil sm and sd blames me for EVERYTHING bad while still wanting
favors. It has gotten so bad here that we are not associating with her or
allowing any extras at all. She is not grounded, we are detatched and living
our lives.
I see the stealing and violation of privacy as total lack of respect,
unfortunately I don't know of any way to gain the respect of a step- child
especially when you have no authority.
Wow!! this gets long fast. Any sucess stories?
Eve
Northrnwmn
retrieving my things back. She was none too pleased, to say the least but she
knew she couldn't say a word because she DID have my things. While I was there
I straightened things up and told her that I wanted it kept that way. The
underlying message was "If you do't, I will. Respect my things and keep your
room liveable unless you want me in here doing it for you". Some people might
have a problem with this but it truly is effective in having her understand how
it feels when MY privacy is violated. End of problem for now.
Sandy
Sandra Brackeen
was because we were both women....and I liked her things it seems like she
is really comfortable with you to use your things...if I were you I would
be flattered....
Northrnwmn <north...@aol.com> wrote in article
<199808110021...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Northrnwmn
when she started "using" my things but it crosses a line when drawers are being
rifled through, clothes missing and other personal items even being given away
to friends like they were her own. I don't mind sharing, as I've told her but I
expect that she asks first, she uses an item and returns it in a reasonable
amount of time and that she doesn't give things away.
For a while I had to tell her that she was not welcome to take, use, borrow or
even ask for my things until I could trust her again to treat them well and
bring them back etc. There IS a difference between sharing and out-right theft.
She's come a long way from there but I was purturbed when we came home from a
3-week vacation and she had gone through clothes again and possibly drawers and
used all my nice bath stuff. Nothing major like before but I thought we had
gone over this once and for all.
Sandy
BabyJane
her clothes, shoes, etc. I think it's universal w/all kids.
B
Northrnwmn <north...@aol.com> wrote in message
199808110021...@ladder01.news.aol.com...
Circe
the house is free game and I have a problem with it. He loans out our movies
and our CDs without asking permission first. We've had CDs go missing which
I believe were loaned to friends or sold for money. He invites his friends
over to swim without asking permission first which made me extremely angry.
Fortunately, hubby came through on this one. SS now has to ask permission to
have friends over. Also, I have a real problem with the fact that he goes
around saying "my dad bought a new car", "my dad just bought a new house",
etc. We have told him time and time again that no one is allowed in the
house while we are not home. This rule is broken consistently and yet this
rule is one I cannot get my husband's support on. Can you imagine what would
happen to us if one of his friends got hurt in the pool? We'd lose
everything....
You're right this does get long quickly!
Northrnwmn wrote in message
<199808111426...@ladder01.news.aol.com>...
Telewriter
I would like to hear suggestions/similar stories/commiseration from other
stepmoms whose stepSONS have invaded their privacy!
I was thinking that ss would put the box of porecleaning strips back in my
dresser drawer today but he didn't.
On one hand, I want to just go ahead and put locks on our bedroom door and
my office/dressing room and let ss figure it out himself.
On the other, since he didn't put them back, I want to just out and out
confront him about this -- but I did find them by looking in his backpack,
so I'm afraid that issue will weaken my position.
However (out of hands now), this is NOT the first time he's taken things of
mine -- even went found an article of my lingerie in his room once.
I'm really unsure as to the best way to proceed at this point. My husband
wants to just out and out confront him, then put locks on the doors.
Anyone have any ideas? I don't want this to go unresolved. Thanks in
advance, and thanks for all the postings....and thanks to whoever started
this thread, it couldn't have been more timely for me!
Circe
more upset about that than the strips.
The only way I know anything at all about SS is by snooping. He certainly
doesn't offer any information. And he is rarely asked for any, though his
father has gotten better at asking the whys and wheres and whos. Of course,
my husband knows I snoop and lets me do it so we can know what is really
going on sometimes. My mother used to snoop on me and sometimes it kept me
from getting into serious trouble.
Has anyone out there ever had a stepchild forge your name to documents? My
SS makes it a hobby of his to do this and used to coerce his girlfriends
into doing it for him. I haven't caught him lately, but I am just waiting
for it to happen again.
This SS is a pathological liar (I think) and would even lie with a gun to
his head. At least his father realizes this and even said in front of
friends with SS there that 80% of what SS says is outright BS and the other
20% is questionable.
Anyway, this is an issue I've been wanting to vent on for a while so yes,
it's timely for me as well.
Circe
Telewriter wrote in message <6qqcvl$l...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net>...
Circe
we have every right to know what is going on under our roof as we will
ultimately be responsible for consequences. I feel that gives me the right
to use whatever means available to me to find out what SS is up to, where he
goes, who he talks to, and where his money goes. He is not of legal age and
therefore, he falls under our jurisdiction. Maybe that seems severe to some,
but I am firm on this issue.
Northrnwmn
I started the thread out of curiousity and a certain amount of frustration. I
am glad that it had been timely for you too. You say you found a piece of your
lingerie in you SS's room? I would be more than a bit concerned and angry about
that one.
I guess my first question is this: does your husband back you up? I think that
needs to be the first thing that you make sure happens. Then, hell YES, I'd be
confronting the boy. He's more than crossed that line between acceptable and
really inappropriate behaviour. I believe though that you need to confront him
with your husband. If your situation is similar to mine, my husband carries
more weight with his daughter than I do alone. What may take 10 times of my
efforts only takes a single word from good-ole dad.
Personally I'd let you SS know that you know he's taking things and going
through your drawers. As I told my SD, she needed to earn my trust again that
she would respect my things. Until then, I'd lock up and be upfront with him
that you reserve the right to check his room for your things until you're sure
that he is no longer stealing from you, because that's exactly what he's doing.
That's my 2 cents for what it's worth- from someone who's been there (and at
times apparently is STILL there!!)
Good luck and keep us posted, will you?
Sandy
Northrnwmn
maybe I was alone with this problem! It sure helps since I don't have any
friends who are step-parents with whom I can compare notes.
Sandy
lwen...@eurekanet.com
it sounds like Circe and a couple of others have a different than 'normal'
circumstances, so before I really reply, let me say first this most likely
doesn't even apply to them.
I think, having a bio teenager, that it's safe to say the borrowing is mainly
just a kid thing. My teenager 'borrows' my clothes, my makeup etc. Sometimes
she asks, sometimes she doesn't. Sometimes I have to go into her room and
retrive it. No, she doesn't like that. But she knows that if I don't get
them back, I come after them.
Her Step-dad does not have this problem. She asks him if she wants to borrow
a t-shirt or whatever. But part of me thinks she asks because she's not 100%
comfortable with the step situation and doesn't know exactly his reaction. My
DH thinks that this is (her not borrowing or borrowing) more his problem than
hers simply because he's never had to deal with his stuff being borrowed. His
daughter is only 5years old and hasn't developed this habit yet. I've told my
kids they need to ask, they often do, but sometimes they forget. The
teenager does best with this theory believe it or not.
I"m sure at somepoint, I'll have the same problem with my stepdaughter, but as
I said she's only 5 right now...and doesn't borrow a lot of things yet. It'll
be my turn to remember that she's just being a kid then :))
I guess the question for all stepparents to ask themselves is simply "If this
were my bio-child would it bother me as much?" and answer yourself honestly.
If it would, then deal with it as you would your bio-child. (easier said than
done in a step situation, I know)
I wasn't raised in a step-home, but I know I 'borrowed' and I know sometimes
it made my parents nuts, but never to a point of having to lock me out of
anywhere. I also think it's a 'respect' issue. When stepkids fail to respect
the step-parent on any level this issue is a much greater issue in all.
Anyways..just my 2cents worth :)
Good luck all!
Lori
In article <199808110021...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
north...@aol.com (Northrnwmn) wrote:
> I have a question for all step-parents out there. I have been reading a lot
> over the past few months in this newsgroup and I am beginning to think that I
> am not alone out there re:step-children taking things without asking. I know
> that bio children do this too but I am noticing a lot of step-parents
> commenting on this problem.
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/rg_mkgrp.xp Create Your Own Free Member Forum
Wayne Weeks
asking, clothes, jewelry, make-up... whatever... from my mom as a teen. I
even used to take my dad's flannel shirts, usually on a permanent basis. My
mom used to get so mad at me. My dad was more tolerant, but he was thrilled
when I grew out of that baggy flannel stage.
I remember my mom wanting to borrow one of my skirts one time and being
absolutely floored. She was too *old* to wear my clothes ;) Jeez, I was such
a little snot.
My daughter and sd are 6 & 8... hopefully I have a few years before I have
to contend with all of that!!
Shannon
Merrie wrote in message <35CFB1...@pon.net>...
>I don't think it's a stepkid thing - just a kid thing. I have one step
>son that exhibits the "I like/need this, it's mine" type toddler
>behavior and one that doesn't. I'll even confess now that I was a bit
>like that with my Mom's stuff but rarely bothered Dad's stuff because he
>didn't have anything I liked. I didn't think it bothered my Mom.
>
> My friend's counselor said that with teens you should just do it right
>back to them. If they change your radio station in the kitchen, go in
>their room and change it on theirs, rummage through their bathroom
>drawer and take all the shades you like...
>
> Come to think of it I do remember groaning at my mother in the early
>morning when I discovered her digging through my closet looking for a
>blouse...
>
>Merrie
mer...@hotmail.com
"Telewriter" <Telew...@worldnet.att.net> wrote:
[clip]
> However (out of hands now), this is NOT the first time he's taken things of
> mine -- even went found an article of my lingerie in his room once.
> I'm really unsure as to the best way to proceed at this point. My husband
> wants to just out and out confront him, then put locks on the doors.
> Anyone have any ideas? I don't want this to go unresolved. Thanks in
> advance, and thanks for all the postings....and thanks to whoever started
> this thread, it couldn't have been more timely for me!
Forget confrontation, get locks on your door NOW. What will confrontation do?
He'll lie or squirm, you and your husband will get angry and yell, SS will
squirm or mumble or yell back. And he's been rummaging in your lingerie? That
creeped me out when I read it. I think if I found that my SS had been going
through my clothes, I'd be out the door.
Erick Borbons
"Circe" <MaryM...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>
>Has anyone out there ever had a stepchild forge your name to documents? My
>SS makes it a hobby of his to do this and used to coerce his girlfriends
>into doing it for him. I haven't caught him lately, but I am just waiting
>for it to happen again.
>
>This SS is a pathological liar (I think) and would even lie with a gun to
>his head. At least his father realizes this and even said in front of
>friends with SS there that 80% of what SS says is outright BS and the other
>20% is questionable.
>
>Anyway, this is an issue I've been wanting to vent on for a while so yes,
>it's timely for me as well.
>
>Circe
This thread is throwing all kinds of red flags up! I've had to deal with
*all* of these issues with my step daughter, over the past 23-24 years. She
started forging her mother's name to absence excuses when she was in fifth
or sixth grade. You might want to keep a close eye on where you leave your
checkbook, because, sooner or later, your SS will be tempted! She respected
nobody's privacy or personal property. When caught and confronted, she'd
say she "borrowed without asking." We (me and her mom, her brother, and her
sister, all had locks on our bedroom doors eventually. A locked door meant
nothing to her...all it did was slow her down a bit. I don't know how many
locksets I had to replace because she jammed them or broke them trying to
unlock them with a hammer or a screwdriver! She even got into my upstairs
bedroom by climbing on the roof and taking the screen off the bathroom
window. Speaking of which, we never had screens on any of the windows
because that was her favorite mode of gaining access to the house. She'd
take off in the middle of the night out her window, then sneak back in again
before dawn. The many times we checked and found her gone, we would close
and lock her bedroom window, then she would have to wake up one of her
siblings to get back inside. As far as her lying was concerned...I used to
say that I could *always* tell when she was lying...her lips would move! We
had some really "trying times" with her. We had her in counseling, group
homes, etc.,etc., all through her teen years. We eventually had to have her
incarcerated to control her. She spent the entire summer of her 16th year
in a juvenile detention hall. We suspected drug use all along, but the
"counselors," 3 or 4 of them, insisted that she wasn't using anything. She
even told one counselor that communicating in our house was "difficult
because of all the alcohol consumed there." My wife and I were devastated
by that comment. I like my beer, and my wife enjoys a glass of wine in the
evening, but we're certainly not alcoholics! We of course assumed that she
was referring to *our* alcohol consumtion...she was only 14 years old at
this point. When we finally had her *hospitalized* for 90 days (thank God
for insurance, but our co-pay was still pretty stiff!) in a drug/alcohol
detox unit, we finally started to get the truth out of her. She started
stealing my beer out of the refrigerator when she was *8* years old. A
young 15 year old girl, (my wife's friend's daughter) we had taken in as a
favor, started giving my SD wine at that age, while she was babysitting for
us, to get her to go to sleep. My SD was a bright, intelligent, little
girl, who was turned into a *monster* by alcohol and drugs. Wow, this is
long...and I haven't even gotten to the really bad stuff...I guess it was my
turn to "vent!" Now what was my point? Oh yeah, don't overlook
drugs/alcohol as the root cause of your SS's behavior. As I started out,
the signs are all there! If I had known then, what I know now, I could have
spared my SD a *lifetime* of pain and misery. BTW, she's a 26 year old,
unmarried mother of 3, with an 8th grade education. On the bright side:
She celebrates her 1 year sobriety birthday in September, her longest period
of sobriety since she was 8 years old. She'll get her GED in the fall, and
then she plans to go to college. She has 3 beautiful healthy children whom
she loves very much. Sorry this is so long...
Good Luck,
Erick
janelaw
>
> Sorry, just one more thing. My opinion is that the house is our property and
> we have every right to know what is going on under our roof as we will
> ultimately be responsible for consequences. I feel that gives me the right
> to use whatever means available to me to find out what SS is up to, where he
> goes, who he talks to, and where his money goes. He is not of legal age and
> therefore, he falls under our jurisdiction. Maybe that seems severe to some,
> but I am firm on this issue.
>
>
you don't respect theirs.
Vicki Robinson
I have explained to my kids many times that I, as their parent,
am responsible for many of their actions, and that their privacy is
not the constitutional right (UScentric, sorry) that mine is. I *do*
respect their privacy, but they know that if I suspect that they're using
drugs, for example, all bets are off. It *is* my responsibility to find
out and get them help, even against their wills, until they are 18 and
move out, and to fulfill that responsibility I will snoop relentlessly
*if I think it's justified*. Without grounds, I think that they are
entitled to privacy, but they have to continue to earn it with their
daily behavior, good grades and association with other good kids.
And, just as another data point, I used to "borrow" hose from my
mother all the time. I was not expected to buy stockings with my own
money (my parents bought my clothes when I was a teen) and, if I
didn't have any, I would raid my mother's drawer. I didn't always
tell her, either. I don't recall helping myself to anything else of
hers though, mostly because she was smaller than I and I couldn't fit
her clothes! Teens do borrow from their parents, and I wouldn't be
concerned about that. I would be *very* concerned about snooping
through drawers, breaking and entering, boys stealing lingerie and
wholesale theft of parents' belongings. It's a matter of degree and
intention, I think.
Vicki
--
Visit our wedding at http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/wedding.html and
sign our guest book! The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can
be found at http://www.urbanlegends.com. Take a look, if you
have a week to spare.
Circe
life until he was 12. His former sm emotionally and physically abused him
while the father traveled extensively on business. My husband did not
realize the extent of the abuse until after she left. SS' older friend
basically taught ss that he did not have to respect any woman in his life.
Change this attitude? Therapy didn't help. Consequently, this child has
grown into one of the most selfish, self-centered, arrogant SOB's you'll
ever want to meet. Fortunately, his father sees this (we just discussed this
last night), and doesn't buy into the "you owe me" attitude.
The question that I've always wondered about is this: Do stepparents see
stepchildren without the emotion that a bio parent would have and see things
perhaps a bit more objectively? Do you have a better chance of developing a
loving relationship with stepchildren if you appear in their life earlier? I
basically have nothing to do with ss after many occasions of finding out
after you were loving and caring that you were manipulated into a situation
or purchase.
lwen...@eurekanet.com wrote in message <6qqltt$p68$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>...
> north...@aol.com (Northrnwmn) wrote:
>> I have a question for all step-parents out there. I have been reading a
lot
>> over the past few months in this newsgroup and I am beginning to think
that I
>> am not alone out there re:step-children taking things without asking. I
know
>> that bio children do this too but I am noticing a lot of step-parents
>> commenting on this problem.
>
Telewriter
more upset about that than the strips.>
We were never really quite sure what he was doing with the lingerie items --
I left that issue to dh to handle. He had a whole collection of silky things
in his room, God knows where he got the rest of them. That happened a year
ago. Disgusting, huh? Really made me uncomfortable, to say the least. Of
course, we were beyond upset about that -- but we reallly felt that he had
stopped going through our things since that incident. It's not the strips
I'm upset about, as you know. It's the principle, as always. And I'm more
angry than EVER because of the fact that it's not the first time he's taken
things. I don't care if he takes a paper clip -- if he does it without
asking, and goes into my private belongings looking for it, it's nothing
short of criminal in my opinion.
<The only way I know anything at all about SS is by snooping. He certainly
doesn't offer any information. >
Same here. It's the only way to know what is going on with this kid.
Telewriter
with your daughter.
You bring up an interesting point. My stepson lies all the time also.
Sometimes, when pushed, I'll say to him "So, when you said so-and-so, you
looked me right in the eyes and lied to me?". And he'll answer honestly,
"yes".
At any rate, his biomother's family are 90% alcoholic. Some of them still
drink, some of them don't.
His biomother will not touch a drop of alcohol (as far as we know now,
anyway). Never drank when she and my husband were married.
BUT she certainly functions as an alcoholic -- a friend of mine said she is
a "dry" alcoholic.
Her denial of reality, unwillingness to confront issues, lying, etc. are all
present in her son. My husband is exactly the opposite.
My stepson has never exhibited signs of drinking. He has tasted beer and
champagne to our knowledge. He hates smoking, and none of his friends are
into drugs at all. I do know what signs to look for, by the way.
However, even if he never takes a drop of liquor, he may be just like his
mother and function as an alcoholic anyway. Great.
Telewriter
know what is going on under our roof as we will ultimately be responsible
for consequences. I feel that gives me the right to use whatever means
available to me to find out what SS is up to, where he
goes, who he talks to, and where his money goes. He is not of legal age and
therefore, he falls under our jurisdiction. Maybe that seems severe to some,
but I am firm on this issue.>
Amen to that!!! Ultimately that is the responsible way to see things. Why
are we seen as some kind of demons for feeling this way -- should we just
let these kids "go" with no supervision, etc.? What good would that do them?
Telewriter
you don't respect theirs.>
This is about children who have already invaded the privacy of their
parents/step-parents!! Respect is a two-way street. When my stepson invades
my privacy and steals from me, whether it's a paper clip or a diamond ring,
he's lost his "right" to privacy.
In my opinion, children who do this need to be taught the difference between
"rights" and "privileges". Too many people have confused these two issues.
I have a right to be respected, and so does my husband. My stepson has a
right to be treated with respect as well. However, should he violate the
rules of respect by violating my Right to Privacy, his Right to Privacy goes
out the window, and he needs to change his behavior in order to regain the
Privilege of Privacy.
If my stepson hadn't lied, stolen and violated our privacay countless times,
there would be no need for me or my husband to search his room. If he were
open and honest, there would be no reason to doubt or mistrust him.
He has proven by his own actions that left to his own devices he will not
take the positive, honest route -- for his OWN protection he needs to learn
these lessons now. Better he learns them here where he is safe, well-cared
for and protected as a growing young person, than out in the "real world".
There are plenty of incidents in the criminal records that document what
happens to people who get caught lying and stealing -- they end up in
morgues far too often, maybe because no one gave them direct object lessons
when they were growing up about the consequences of dishonesty.
Telewriter
concerned about that. I would be *very* concerned about snooping
through drawers, breaking and entering, boys stealing lingerie and
wholesale theft of parents' belongings. It's a matter of degree and
intention, I think.>
Right. My stepson has borrowed a tee shirt from his dad from time to time,
and has told him about it EVERY time. These other activities are different,
with different intentions entirely.
Telewriter
more than a bit concerned and angry about that one. >
Believe me, we were! That incident happened about a year ago. We both really
thought that the behavior had stopped.
<I guess my first question is this: does your husband back you up? >
Yes, he does, thank God. As for this recent incident, I am giving stepson
one more day to put the box back in my drawer. The locks are going on the
doors no matter what. If he doesn't put the box back today, we will just
confront him with this together.
My husband will be the one to tell stepson that the locks are going on the
doors, and why they are being put there. He will also tell him that I will
be the one to decide if and when they are removed, based on stepson's
behavior.
Thanks, Sandy, for your support. I'm so glad you brought this issue up in
the first place, I really needed the help! Feeling I'm not the "only one" is
the greatest help of all, I think!
Telewriter
do?
He'll lie or squirm, you and your husband will get angry and yell, SS will
squirm or mumble or yell back. And he's been rummaging in your lingerie?
That creeped me out when I read it. I think if I found that my SS had been
going through my clothes, I'd be out the door.>
Well, when I said we are going to confront him on it, I didn't mean have an
argument. I just feel that he needs to know EXACTLY why this is being done.
We will give him the chance to cop to this latest theft. BUT, whether he
denies doing it, lies about it (which I suspect he will) or admits to it,
the locks are going on regardless.
It creeped you out? So you can imagine how I felt (and STILL feel about it).
What he does in his teenage masturbatory fantasies are his business, I don't
want to know about it. But since he chose to steal that lingerie a year ago,
it made something that I never would have had to think about be present in
my mind. Very creepy and uncomfortable.
At any rate, I'm not walking out my own door no matter what stepson does.
The only one who will end up walking out of here will be my stepson, with a
new locked door behind him! (If I had my way, I'd make him move back to his
biomom's now. But it's not my decision. I just don't want to deal with his
attitude and bad behavior anymore. I want to see change, and if I don't see
change then I'll just continue to do whatever I have to to protect my
belongings, privacy and sanity. Luckily my husband supports me in this. If
he didn't I don't know what I'd do!).
Telewriter
would have and see things perhaps a bit more objectively? Do you have a
better chance of developing a loving relationship with stepchildren if you
appear in their life earlier? I basically have nothing to do with ss after
many occasions of finding out after you were loving and caring that you were
manipulated into a situation or purchase.>
Oh, absolutely we see them more objectively! That "unconditional love" thing
just isn't there as a step parent. I care about my stepson. I used to be
able to very easily say (and demonstrate) that I loved him. I can't feel
that now, I just can't. All I can honestly say that I feel for him is that I
care about him, I don't want to see him continue down negative paths, I hope
he changes his behavior (although I dont' expect him to), I will continue to
care for him in terms of nutrition, health, and acting as a good role model.
But I no longer feel love for him -- I hope that the feeling will return one
day, I'd feel better if it did. But it will take a lot of change on his
part.
I don't have much to do with him either (well, tonight's "discussion" about
his latest theft, and the locks going on the doors will mean I'll have to
deal with him).
I am civil to him, and that's about it. Sad, but I can't feel what isn't
there.
As far as whether we would have a better relationship with stepkids if we
had come into their lives earlier, I don't know. If I had to guess I'd say
"yes" -- on the other hand familiarity breeds contempt, so who knows?
In my particular case, I KNOW that had stepson been "allowed" by his
biomother to move in with us when he first requested it, we would have
received an entirely different teenager into our home.
Instead, she stonewalled his request for a full 8 months. During that 8
months, due to his anger, resentment and her neglect of him, he aligned
himself with a group of kids that were a bad influence -- not in terms of
drugs or alcohol or smoking, but in terms of attitude -- very into anarchy,
make your own rules, screw societal structure, etc.
so by the time we finally got him here (we had to rescue him after biomom's
"boyfriend" hit him), he had built up all kinds of anger and resistance to
positive influences.
Do I blame his biomother for this? Damned right I do. It's just that after 2
years of living here, and having OUR influence, he has reached a point that
he is just defying everything, it seems. Again, no drugs, no drinking, no
smoking -- but I fear that could be a next step if he hooks up with another
bad crowd of kids. His friends in our town are for the most part "normal"
and outgoing kids.
His raging hormones (he's little more than a month shy of his 16th birthday)
aren't helping things either, of course.
(Gee, wonder why that old "Calgon take me away" commercial just popped into
my head!!).
I've wondered about the same things, Circe. Can't say I have many answers,
but I can certainly relate! Thanks.
Circe
Gradually stopped asking to borrow. One day his father opened his t-shirt
drawer and voila! no t-shirts... I was asked to account for the missing
t-shirts (he had bought some expensive ones) through the laundry. Went
through SS laundry basket and drawers and there they were! Explained to my
husband where they had disappeared to and also told him that ss should not
take them without asking. Then I got shot down for snooping to find them...
sometimes my husband is a little irrational. But he confronted ss and
t-shirt borrowing has stopped. Well, ss ripped all the labels out of his so
I can no longer tell if he was borrowing.
Telewriter wrote in message <6qs9p0$3...@bgtnsc03.worldnet.att.net>...
Kyle & Kim's Mom
up is the fact that I have asked (told) my SS to stay out of my room and
stay out of my things, yet he goes right back in there and does it again...
The first time can be forgiven, but when he's going in there against your
direct instructions... that shows disrespect and/or rebellion. I too feel
violated by his intrusions. I do not trust my SS at all at this point. He
is 17 now and has been doing this since he was 13. He hasn't lived with us
for six months (since he wanted to finish high school where we used to live)
and I must admit it's been a lot less stressful and relaxed around the
house, but it looks as if he may be rejoining our household and I'm going to
the hardware store for door locks the day that he does!
--
Pam
Kyle and Kimberlee's Mom
Scott's StepMom
Click p...@vircom.net to reply or
remove nospam from address to reply.
janelaw
>
> <Pardon me for asking, but what was he doing with your lingerie? I would be
> more upset about that than the strips.>
>
> We were never really quite sure what he was doing with the lingerie items --
> I left that issue to dh to handle. He had a whole collection of silky things
> in his room, God knows where he got the rest of them.
Actually, I thought the lingerie thing was pretty funny in a
"yucckkkk" kind of way. My SS having a secret lingerie cache
wouldn't bother me. I would figure he was using it for
masturbation or cross-dressing or some other adolescent sexual
experimentation. Finding MY lingerie in his room would make me
wonder if he were fantasizing about me. The idea is so
ludicrous that I can't help laughing.
Anyway, since there was a bunch of it, only one piece of which
was yours, I'd assume it was an accident.
Northrnwmn
needed it a few years ago but I had no one to turn to). I feel very strongly
that step-parenting is one of the hardest jobs in this world and we often find
ourselves in no-man's land because the children aren't "ours". They will tell
us this themselves, won't they?! I feel very fortunate to have found a decent,
respectful newsgroup where we can air our feelings and get feedback. Thanks for
your post!
BabyJane
*how* you know... and refuse to argue w/him. As long as he is in your
household, you are responsible for him, and should be able to go through his
things if you suspect he has been taking things. Im sorry if this sounds as
an invasion of privacy.. but as long as he is under your care and
responsibility and has demonstrated that he cannot be trusted, he has no
privacy. This is *only* an opinion, thanks. <flames self to save future
flamers time>
Telewriter <Telew...@worldnet.att.net> wrote in message
6qqcvl$l...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
>Well, I certainly don't feel alone in this anymore!
>I would like to hear suggestions/similar stories/commiseration from other
>stepmoms whose stepSONS have invaded their privacy!
>I was thinking that ss would put the box of porecleaning strips back in my
>dresser drawer today but he didn't.
>On one hand, I want to just go ahead and put locks on our bedroom door and
>my office/dressing room and let ss figure it out himself.
>On the other, since he didn't put them back, I want to just out and out
>confront him about this -- but I did find them by looking in his backpack,
>so I'm afraid that issue will weaken my position.
Telewriter
was yours, I'd assume it was an accident.>
No, no, more than one piece, and believe me it was no accident (I probably
didn't make that clear before, sorry, I'm more than a little stressed!)
He admitted to taking 2 of the 3 things -- totally lied about the 3rd 9as if
I don't know my own clothing!)
janelaw
Forgive me for laughing. This has to make you shudder. It's
just the absurdity of it: of all the hassles you expect to deal
with as a step-parent, noise, discipline, marital tension,
financial pressure, etc., the last thing I would have considered
was my step-SON stealing my underwear. (SD has filched more
than one bra.)
I'm still holding out hope that he considered this generic
women's lingerie, not yours. Maybe he just picked it up because
yours was the most accessible for a teenage boy. I can't deal
with the alternative.
janelaw
>
> In a previous article, janelaw <jan...@excite.com> said:
>
> >Circe wrote:
> >>
> >> we have every right to know what is going on under our roof as we will
> >> ultimately be responsible for consequences. I feel that gives me the right
> >> to use whatever means available to me to find out what SS is up to, where he
> >> goes, who he talks to, and where his money goes. He is not of legal age and
> >> therefore, he falls under our jurisdiction. Maybe that seems severe to some,
> >> but I am firm on this issue.
> >>
> >>
> >you don't respect theirs.
>
> am responsible for many of their actions, and that their privacy is
> not the constitutional right (UScentric, sorry) that mine is.
Vicki,
I have been trying to answer you without sounding didactic and
judgmental all day. Unfortunately, I broke my leg a few weeks
ago, and it really hurts. My daughter has been gone for a
week. Also, it is 90 degrees here and muggy. We don't have an
air conditioner. Ants invaded my kitchen for the third straight
morning. I think the local supermarket manager hides the ant
cups so that he can laugh at people with broken legs hobbling
through the store and trying to jump up to the top shelf to
reach them. What follows is the best I could do for a tactful
and moderate response:
I agree that we have to take some responsibility for our
children's actions. But we really have no more right to privacy
than they do. Legally or morally.
Within a family, our privacy is by consent. Sure, we can put
locks on our doors (and I can see that that may be warranted at
times), but we are vulnerable the first time we leave the keys
out. If the children don't believe that we are entitled to
personal privacy as a basic human right, then they will not
afford us any. If privacy IS a basic human right, then they are
entitled to it, too. Like everything else, they learn how to
treat people by how we treat them. If we read their personal
papers, they will read ours. If we go through their drawers and
rooms, they will do likewise.
This isn't the kind of thing you can just mandate. The kids
have to really believe it. Otherwise, they will eavesdrop on
your conversations, read any papers you leave lying around,
discuss all your private business with their friends, etc. You
cannot stop them from doing these things, and for the most part
you can't even call them on it. If you can't say, "I would
never do that to you," you can't expect them to believe it's
wrong.
I *do*
> respect their privacy, but they know that if I suspect that they're using
> drugs, for example, all bets are off. It *is* my responsibility to find
> out and get them help, even against their wills, until they are 18 and
> move out, and to fulfill that responsibility I will snoop relentlessly
> *if I think it's justified*. Without grounds, I think that they are
> entitled to privacy, but they have to continue to earn it with their
> daily behavior, good grades and association with other good kids.
>
>
I don't see how snooping can help you with any of these things.
Surely you know what your children's grades are, whether they
are doing drugs, and who they hang with. From your posts, I
know you do. You talk to them, spend time with them, observe
them. Some of us have periods of denial, but a parent in the
snooping stage is past the denial stage. Snooping is a cheap
shortcut into your children's world that will only alienate them
from you.
And another thing (I am really on a roll), I don't believe for a
second that when the kids turn 18 and move out of your home, you
will automatically be able to change your feelings and actions
toward them. You will still worry about their grades, drugs,
friends, etc. How would you know how they were doing, if you
spent their teens learning about them by snooping? Would they
tell you? They just spent their teens learning how to conceal
whatever they could from you! The worst part is that the more
trouble they were in, the more they needed your help, the less
they would share with you, because YOU taught them to hide it.
I value my privacy as much as anyone else. It drives me crazy
when the kids take my things. Actually, I hate it when my
husband takes my things. I, too, am tempted to retaliate in
kind and rifle through their belongings for things I "know" they
took. I resist this impulse, because I am convinced that our
children learn by our example. Besides, I hate it so much that
I couldn't live with myself if I did it to them.
There. Now I am going to take some pain killers and put myself
to bed.
Kyle & Kim's Mom
would have and see things perhaps a bit more objectively?
Good question... My DH sees my children differently than I do and I see his
son differently than he does... I think the unconditional love makes a huge
different in a relationship with a child though as I have that with my own
children but not with my SS... that could come into play here.
>Do you have a better chance of developing a loving relationship with
>stepchildren if you appear in their life earlier?
...yes.. I believe so. My first set of stepkids were 4 and 1 when I entered
their life and I now have more contact with them at age 27 and 24, than
their own biofather. I consider their kids my grandkids (they have five
combined)... and I love them dearly.
My second round of stepparenting... I came into the SS's life when he was
13. Pretty much the same story at Circe... his last stepmom had verbally
abused him and I think he pretty much has a wall up when it comes to women
because of it. He's very quiet and seems withdrawn most of the time...
It's hard to deal with him sometimes because he is so different from what
I'm used to. My kids are outgoing and wanting to go places and do things.
My SS would rather sit home and watch TV or play computer games all day and
night. Makes me crazy! I don't feel close to him at all. It's hard to
bond with a 13 (now 17) year old boy!
--
Pam
Kyle and Kimberlee's Mom
Jim Talkington
with janelaw in that we have to be the role model for our children. Getting
into a petty "tit for tat" quarrell with them only reenforces the attitude
that what you do to me I'll do to you. so don't get surprised when one of
the kids slaps the other and they haul off and knock the lights out. Their
defense will be what we taught them. He did it to me so I did it to him.
We need to be creative with our discipline. When we begin puttin ourselves
behind locked doors we all loose. And the people behind the locked doors
are the big losers. I too had a problem with my SS taking things not only
from my room but everyones room. I finaly got fed up after telling him many
times to ask permission before going in an borrowing anything. The next
time he did it I told him you caused someone to loose their privacy you
loose yours. I took the door off his room for a month. He is 13 and did
not like it.
I am "not aware" of a single incident since doing it. Not only did it set
him straight but it sent a signal to others in the house that were
"borrowing" without permission of the repercussions.
I feel the one causing the problem should feel the pain not everyone else.
I too struggle with loving my SS & SD. But I am trying hard to separate the
child from the behavior and look at the child for what they are..children.
Children that are a product of divorce, single parent life, and most likely
a presumed rejection by one of the parents. thats tuff on any kid. I have
been a Boy Scout leader for more than 25 years and have yet to see anything
more effective at getting the kids repect then letting them know beyond a
shadow of a doubt that you care about them and have their best interest
behind your actions. I'm sorry to get so long winded. But when the
Beattles sang "All you need is Love" it's true. Along with a lot of
patience.
Beatle Freak
Northrnwmn
> I too had a problem with my SS taking things not only
>from my room but everyones room. I finaly got fed up after telling him many
>times to ask permission before going in an borrowing anything. The next
>time he did it I told him you caused someone to loose their privacy you
>loose yours. I took the door off his room for a month. He is 13 and did
>not like it.
>I am "not aware" of a single
In theory I must say that I agree with Jim and Jane about demonstrating respect
for step-children's privacy however...
I guess, first of all Jim, I don't really understand how removing the door from
your SS's room does this. Not that I think it was the wrong thing to do.
However, that makes it pretty difficult to condemn others for invading the
privacy of a step-child's room in other ways. I am not trying to be critical
but I bring this up to back up my point that what may not be helpful in one
situation may be in another, with a different family.
I always maintained that I would never go into my SD's room without permission.
I maintained that for 2 years. That did nothing for her rifling through *my*
things or sleeping/reading in *my* bed, which by the way was a definate issue
for me. I tried discussing this with her, cutting her off from even asking to
borrow anything from me or the household for a while until she could show
respect for these things. Did this teach her respect for privacy and others'
things...no.
It wasn't until I started going into her room to retrieve *my* things that she
started changing. I defend my position...if you have things of mine and don't
return them, then you forgo your right to have your space untouched. She has
not "retaliated" because she knows that she is in the wrong for having taken
without asking and not returned things. Her "snooping" can not be justified
unless I have taken something of hers and not returned it (which I never do).
My husband does similarly for the few things that she has removed from him that
aren't hers. We agreed ahead of time on this tactic but the ground rules were
as follows:
1) We only go in looking for what we are missing.
2) When we find then item, we don't continue looking through the room.
3) We do not confront my SD on anything else found in the room unless directly
related to the item we were missing.
4) We are upfront about the reason we were in her room and discuss the issue
with her so that she can decide to live with our expectations re: borrowing
items appropriately or have us in her room to get them ourselves. This IS a
choice for her.
5) If we are aware that something is missing and we don't need it right away,
we ask her to give it back and allow reasonable time before we go retrieving
it.
6) We do not read personal notes, etc.
I do think that this is a fair and equitable system and would I feel the same
if she did likewise to us? You bet!
As I said before, this may not be a solution for other families but it has
worked for us and I feel that we have done our best to medal respect for both
privacy and other people's things. Perhaps other families have different ways
of handling the situation: I salute them for their decisions. We must all do
our best to raise considerate and respectful childrena dn step-children.
I do apologize for the length of this post!
Sandy
Vicki Robinson
>
>I have been trying to answer you without sounding didactic and
>judgmental all day. Unfortunately, I broke my leg a few weeks
>ago, and it really hurts. My daughter has been gone for a
>week. Also, it is 90 degrees here and muggy. We don't have an
>air conditioner. Ants invaded my kitchen for the third straight
>morning. I think the local supermarket manager hides the ant
>cups so that he can laugh at people with broken legs hobbling
>through the store and trying to jump up to the top shelf to
>reach them.
Not only that, he's going to send the security videos to "America's
Funniest Home Videos" and when he wins the prize he won't split it
with you.
Sincere sympathy on your discomfort, and seems to me that your husband
should recognize that a broken leg *needs* at least a bedroom air
conditioner.
>I agree that we have to take some responsibility for our
>children's actions. But we really have no more right to privacy
>than they do. Legally or morally.
>
Perhaps no more right to privacy as a basis for normal daily life.
However, the agencies authorized to invade that privacy for cause are
different.
>Within a family, our privacy is by consent. Sure, we can put
>locks on our doors (and I can see that that may be warranted at
>times), but we are vulnerable the first time we leave the keys
>out. If the children don't believe that we are entitled to
>personal privacy as a basic human right, then they will not
>afford us any. If privacy IS a basic human right, then they are
>entitled to it, too. Like everything else, they learn how to
>treat people by how we treat them. If we read their personal
>papers, they will read ours. If we go through their drawers and
>rooms, they will do likewise.
>
Oh, yes, I agree with this.
>I *do*
>> respect their privacy, but they know that if I suspect that they're using
>> drugs, for example, all bets are off. It *is* my responsibility to find
>> out and get them help, even against their wills, until they are 18 and
>> move out, and to fulfill that responsibility I will snoop relentlessly
>> *if I think it's justified*. Without grounds, I think that they are
>> entitled to privacy, but they have to continue to earn it with their
>> daily behavior, good grades and association with other good kids.
>>
>>
>I don't see how snooping can help you with any of these things.
>Surely you know what your children's grades are, whether they
>are doing drugs, and who they hang with. From your posts, I
>know you do. You talk to them, spend time with them, observe
>them. Some of us have periods of denial, but a parent in the
>snooping stage is past the denial stage. Snooping is a cheap
>shortcut into your children's world that will only alienate them
>from you.
The snooping (if it ever happened) could only occur after every
parental alarm bell that I have is going off. You're right, I do know
my kids. We talk, we go places, I know their friends and I am aware
of what's going on in school. So is their dad, and we work together.
Snooping is not necessary, and I don't do it. I think I could have
been clearer here; the snooping would take place when the kids are
lying about their whereabouts, when their grades start dropping,
they smell like smoke or booze when they stagger in two hours
after curfew and their friends all have pictures hanging in the
post office. Then I will have no hesitation about doing whatever
I need to do to get information that I can use to help them, even
without their cooperation. But my kids are normal kids in most ways;
I can generally trust what they say, and if they lie to me, they're
innocuous lies that serve the short term goal of avoiding another
boring "parent" lecture/discussion. I've never gone through their
things, and they know it. They've never given me a reason to do so.
I don't expect that they ever will.
>
>And another thing (I am really on a roll), I don't believe for a
>second that when the kids turn 18 and move out of your home, you
>will automatically be able to change your feelings and actions
>toward them. You will still worry about their grades, drugs,
>friends, etc. How would you know how they were doing, if you
>spent their teens learning about them by snooping? Would they
>tell you? They just spent their teens learning how to conceal
>whatever they could from you! The worst part is that the more
>trouble they were in, the more they needed your help, the less
>they would share with you, because YOU taught them to hide it.
Well, snooping becomes lots harder when they are living in their own
place to which I don't have a key! And yes, my mother still worries
about me, and I'm 45; it doesn't quit at 18.
>
>I value my privacy as much as anyone else. It drives me crazy
>when the kids take my things. Actually, I hate it when my
>husband takes my things. I, too, am tempted to retaliate in
>kind and rifle through their belongings for things I "know" they
>took. I resist this impulse, because I am convinced that our
>children learn by our example. Besides, I hate it so much that
>I couldn't live with myself if I did it to them.
>
Ah, Jane, you've misunderstood me, I think. I am asserting the right,
as the parent of minor children, to protect them when they need
protecting, when their own choices are bad ones. Just as the police
are empowered to get a court order to search my house for drugs or
weapons or stolen property if they have good cause to believe that
I've been doing illegal things, I am empowered by my moral
responsibility for their health and well-being to search their
property too, when I have cause to believe that they are doing things
that they should not be doing. Not on a pre-emptive basis; you're
right, kids need privacy too, and if they are not abusing their
freedoms and their priviledges they have a right to it.
I've never been a big fan of those who would support the erosion of
civil liberties with the justification "If you're not doing anything
wrong, you have nothing to worry about." But, just as an adult's
civil liberties can be abrogated when there is sufficient evidence to
believe that he is engaging in criminal activities, I will abrogate my
children's for the same reasons, although not to punish, but to
"rehabilitate."
>There. Now I am going to take some pain killers and put myself
>to bed.
Good night. Feel better. And Terro[tm] Ant Killer works pretty well
if you give it two weeks. (Not on broken legs, but on ants.)
janelaw
>
> <all prior posts snipped>
>
> Not only that, he's going to send the security videos to "America's
> Funniest Home Videos" and when he wins the prize he won't split it
> with you.
>
> Sincere sympathy on your discomfort, and seems to me that your husband
> should recognize that a broken leg *needs* at least a bedroom air
> conditioner.
>
my daughter. I am in a better mood.
These ants have given me a whole new perspective on
environmental protection. I'm finding them in my office now.
What do I do if the get into the computer? I gave up on vaseline
and cinnamon days ago. Ant cups and sprays seem to have no
effect. If this Terro stuff doesn't work, I'm looking for DDT.
> snip
>
> The snooping (if it ever happened) could only occur after every
> parental alarm bell that I have is going off. You're right, I do know
> my kids. We talk, we go places, I know their friends and I am aware
> of what's going on in school. So is their dad, and we work together.
> Snooping is not necessary, and I don't do it. I think I could have
> been clearer here; the snooping would take place when the kids are
> lying about their whereabouts, when their grades start dropping,
> they smell like smoke or booze when they stagger in two hours
> after curfew and their friends all have pictures hanging in the
> post office. Then I will have no hesitation about doing whatever
> I need to do to get information that I can use to help them, even
> without their cooperation. But my kids are normal kids in most ways;
> I can generally trust what they say, and if they lie to me, they're
> innocuous lies that serve the short term goal of avoiding another
> boring "parent" lecture/discussion. I've never gone through their
> things, and they know it. They've never given me a reason to do so.
> I don't expect that they ever will.
>
snip
> Ah, Jane, you've misunderstood me, I think. I am asserting the right,
> as the parent of minor children, to protect them when they need
> protecting, when their own choices are bad ones. Just as the police
> are empowered to get a court order to search my house for drugs or
> weapons or stolen property if they have good cause to believe that
> I've been doing illegal things, I am empowered by my moral
> responsibility for their health and well-being to search their
> property too, when I have cause to believe that they are doing things
> that they should not be doing. Not on a pre-emptive basis; you're
> right, kids need privacy too, and if they are not abusing their
> freedoms and their priviledges they have a right to it.
>
> I've never been a big fan of those who would support the erosion of
> civil liberties with the justification "If you're not doing anything
> wrong, you have nothing to worry about." But, just as an adult's
> civil liberties can be abrogated when there is sufficient evidence to
> believe that he is engaging in criminal activities, I will abrogate my
> children's for the same reasons, although not to punish, but to
> "rehabilitate."
>
Vicki,
I agree with a lot of what you say. BUT, I still don't think
that sneaking around snooping on your kids is the way to go.
It's taking the easy way out.
In the first place, ALL kids do something that you can use as an
excuse for spying on them. I "know" that if I go into the kids'
rooms and poke through their stuff, I will find the razors,
makeup, dresses, scissors, staplers, and all the other things
that I have been looking for for months. I could convince
myself that I need something, search their rooms (maybe my paper
clips are in the shoe box on the shelf in her closet; maybe my
nail file is in her diary), and confront them with anything I
find. There is always a pretext you can use.
In the second place, you can tell without snooping. If your kid
smiles beatifically then falls asleep in the mashed potatoes he
hasn't been eating, think heroin. If he suddenly decides to
clean his room, think speed. If he sits in a corner watching
the dog, saying, "Oh, wow, man," think pot. If you have lived a
sheltered life, there are plenty of books, pamphlets, and web
sites that can educate you.
Mainly, I think you have to talk to them. If you say, "Your
cousin Tommy was arrested for pot possession," and your child
responds, "I think the Bengals are going to to go all the way
this year," or, "Well, you drink beer. It's the same thing,"
then you know it's time for a heart-to-heart.
OTOH, I completely agree that your duty to parent can conflict
with your children's right to privacy. If they are having a
problem, you may need to go to extraordinary lengths to help
them. I just think you should be up-front about it. As a
practical matter, you have to expect them to hide whatever they
don't want you to find outside the house. And you have to
accept that no matter how much you want to, you cannot solve
their problems for them.
I think my visceral reaction comes from my own bizarre, "don't
ask, don't tell" upbringing. My parents never discussed sex,
drugs, drinking, domestic violence, rape, or any other
"unpleasant" issue with us. Perhaps coincidentally, at 16 yo I
regularly lied, stole, drank, smoked, had sex, cut school,
cheated on exams, and did whatever drugs I could find. One day,
my parents confronted me with a bag of pot or pills they had
found in my closet. I couldn't believe it! These were the same
people I stumbled by totally blasted every weekend night.
Suddenly, they were acting like it was all a big surprise. So I
moved out and supported myself by selling drugs at my high
school.
I loved my parents till the day they died, but I think they made
some mistakes raising me. What I could have used was attention,
guidance and support. If they had not put off dealing with the
idea that their child was having problems for so long, maybe
they could have helped me with some of them. They didn't have
to spy on me to find out; it was right there in front of them.
Jane
(the sedentary formicidae annihilator)
janelaw
>
>
> In theory I must say that I agree with Jim and Jane about demonstrating respect
> for step-children's privacy however...
> I guess, first of all Jim, I don't really understand how removing the door from
> your SS's room does this. Not that I think it was the wrong thing to do.
>
to have one's privacy violated without physically invading his
child's room.
>
> I do think that this is a fair and equitable system and would I feel the same
> if she did likewise to us? You bet!
>
This sounds perfectly reasonable to me.
Vicki Robinson
>
>I agree with a lot of what you say. BUT, I still don't think
>that sneaking around snooping on your kids is the way to go.
>It's taking the easy way out.
>
>In the first place, ALL kids do something that you can use as an
>excuse for spying on them. I "know" that if I go into the kids'
>rooms and poke through their stuff, I will find the razors,
>makeup, dresses, scissors, staplers, and all the other things
>that I have been looking for for months.
>
Oh, of course; if you're looking for a reason, you'll find one, but
that's putting the cart before the horse, and I am not defending it.
That's rationalization. I don't want to spy on my kids. Well, no, I
*do* want to, but that's just because I'm fascinated by them and I'd
like to crawl into their heads to find out who they are. That doesn't
mean that I'd do it, however; I respect their autonomy (as far as it
goes right now) and I respect their privacy.
In any case, I am not defending snoopery that can be justified on
flimsey or invented grounds.
>In the second place, you can tell without snooping.
>
You can be alerted without snooping.
>Mainly, I think you have to talk to them.
>
Yup. Always have. Lately my 11 yo has been stonewalling me, but I
suspect pre-pubertal angst and worry about going into middle school.
But she knows I'm available if she decides to share.
My parents never snooped on me or my sisters, either. We stayed in
line because my parents were crystal clear about their expectations
for our behavior, which were not open to negotiation. We had rules
about friends and curfews which were reasonable and flexible, and
could be appealed. (I think expectations and rules, and the
differences between them, are important to have. Explicit and
unambiguous.) Our parents trusted us, and it was the thought of their
disappointment if I screwed up that was unbearable. All three of us
agree that the shame of not living up to our parents' loving and
supportive expectations would have been faaaaar worse than any
punishment that they could mete out. They had faith in us, they
trusted our judgement and our word, and we treasured that trust.
>OTOH, I completely agree that your duty to parent can conflict
>with your children's right to privacy. If they are having a
>problem, you may need to go to extraordinary lengths to help
>them. I just think you should be up-front about it. As a
>practical matter, you have to expect them to hide whatever they
>don't want you to find outside the house. And you have to
>accept that no matter how much you want to, you cannot solve
>their problems for them.
Yep, that's true, but you can create an environment in which their own
problem-solving mechanisms can kick into high gear. And yes, I think
being up-front is a good way to go. Perhaps "snooping" is a bad term;
if I thought my kids were involved in drugs, there would be an all
out, unannounced, full-force room toss, worthy of the FBI at its least
sympathetic. There would be nothing sneaky about it. They'd know why
we were doing it, and they'd be present during the search.
>
>I think my visceral reaction comes from my own bizarre, "don't
>ask, don't tell" upbringing. My parents never discussed sex,
>drugs, drinking, domestic violence, rape, or any other
>"unpleasant" issue with us. Perhaps coincidentally, at 16 yo I
>regularly lied, stole, drank, smoked, had sex, cut school,
>cheated on exams, and did whatever drugs I could find. One day,
>my parents confronted me with a bag of pot or pills they had
>found in my closet. I couldn't believe it! These were the same
>people I stumbled by totally blasted every weekend night.
>Suddenly, they were acting like it was all a big surprise. So I
>moved out and supported myself by selling drugs at my high
>school.
Eek. Yes, your upbringing was very different from mine. Mine was a
constant stream of talk about values, about behavior, about consequences
(as distinct from punishments) to various courses of action, assurances
that I was the most wonderful person ever to bless the planet with her
presence, but that even wonderful people can make their futures much more
difficult with bad choices. We brought our friends around constantly;
my mom cooked consistently for at least two extra people every night,
my dad (who was a doctor of the old school) dispensed information and
advice on sex and body development to worried teen-aged boys who would
rather die than ask their own dads. We had bands practicing in our
basement because their own parents had kicked them out, my mother took
at least three kids not her own to the DMV for their driving tests (in
*her* car). . . It goes on. Most of those kids are in their 40s now
and they still drop by to see how my mom is. It is from this context
that I claim that the right to privacy is not an absolute right for
minor children; sometimes loving and concerned parents have to intervene.
>
>I loved my parents till the day they died, but I think they made
>some mistakes raising me. What I could have used was attention,
>guidance and support. If they had not put off dealing with the
>idea that their child was having problems for so long, maybe
>they could have helped me with some of them. They didn't have
>to spy on me to find out; it was right there in front of them.
>
Righto. Spying is wrong, I think; it demonstrates that sneakiness is
the way that parents control kids. This is part of what you've been
saying all along, and I agree with you.
So, I guess we've been saying the same things?
I knew I liked your postings.
janelaw
>
> So, I guess we've been saying the same things?
>
>
I don't see where we disagree. Thanks for the opportunity to
get a few things off my chest.
