BD & SM trashing me to kids.. any advice?
_calinda_
father's for any length of time. She doesn't like talking to me
about it, but her brother confided in me that the reason is that she
fights with her father & the SM. About me.
Seems they like to constantly trash talk me and she gets really
angry, and it escalates to the point where they are all screaming at
each other. (Real nice, eh?). She feels she has to defend my
honor, basically.
Anyway.. it happened again yesterday. When I asked her what was
wrong, she said 'nothing'.. when I knew that wasn't the case.. and
that's when her brother told me what had been happening.
I told her to try to ignore it, what they say is of no consequence
to me, to let it go in one ear & out the other. She replied "no one
talks like that about someone I love".
From what I gather this is a regular thing with them, Bash the BM to
the child with these two, and it gets to the point where she just
blows her stack. Son says he's able to just plain ignore it. What
can I say to help her get to that same place?
This was happening a while ago, and I thought they had stopped, but
I guess she just hid it better from me.
What is it that I can say to her to help her deal with this kind of
environment?
Thanks
Cal~
rebecca
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bt581g$388is$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Lately, my daughter comes home agitated after she's been to her
> father's for any length of time. She doesn't like talking to me
> about it, but her brother confided in me that the reason is that she
> fights with her father & the SM. About me.
>
> I told her to try to ignore it, what they say is of no consequence
> to me, to let it go in one ear & out the other. She replied "no one
> talks like that about someone I love".
Hey Cal,
That's great. Not that they're bashing you, I mean, they're asses for doing
that. But your daughter's got a strong enough sense of self to stand up and
say something when someone she loves is doing something so wrong. You
should be proud of her. And of yourself.
That being said, I don't know what you can really do, if her upset isn't
changing her dad's behavior. I can't remember your relationship, can you
approach the father and talk to him? I think telling her that it isn't
hurting you is a good, reassuring thing to do. Maybe help her find some
words to say - earlier in the bashing - before she freaks out and starts
yelling? A phrase she can just repeat when she gets upset? One little boy
I used to know just said "I really like her, mom, and it upsets me when you
say mean things" every time his mom bashed his stepmom.
HTH
rebecca
WhansaMi
Cal, my OSD came to us a couple of years ago with basically the same story.
After every visitation, the YSD, the BM and her new hubby would make fun of/
bash DH and I. YSD would regal them with details of the visit, none of them
complimentary, and they'd try (according to OSD) to get her involved in the
bashfest. She told us that, if she didn't participate, or defended him, they
would get mad at her. She felt like she was being ostracized at home for not
participating.
I don't think I have any advice for making it stop. She said it was better for
her not to argue, but to just remove herself from the situation until it died
down, and that was pretty much my own experience as a child of divorced
parents, too. On many occasions, I simply said to my father or mother, "Yes, I
know you don't like him/her, but I'm not going to stand around and listen to
this, or get into it with you. I'm going to watch television (go ourside, read
my book, whatever). I can't say it stopped the behavior; both my father and
mother continued it until the last time I saw them, but it did keep the level
of contentiousness down by me refusing to participate.
Sorry.
Sheila
les cargot
{{{hugs}}} to you and your kids.
It would be nice if her father and SM were adults. The behavior
your son described sounds more like badly-behaved children on a
playground taunting a younger child till she snaps out. And it's
one of the oldest insults in the book, trashing someone's mother,
just about a foolproof way to upset the victim. They're not even
being original.
What may help, and I don't know an easy way to communicate it to
a teenager because I was all grown up when it finally sank in, is
the concept of "detachment with love." It gets discussed in at
least some of the twelve-step programs for families of addicts.
You still love the addict, but you detach from the misbehavior.
One can love a person whose behavior is inappropriate, or
embarrassing, or maybe even illegal, immoral, and unethical,
without loving the behavior.
Was it you who mentioned an ex with a drinking problem? If so,
your kids qualify for Alateen, which can be an excellent source
of support for teenagers with alcoholic or possibly alcoholic
parents. (Check in the phone book under Al-Anon Family Groups.)
Another possibility: can you, or a counselor, help her identify
exactly what it is that hurts her so much about what they're
saying? If so, then maybe you can work with her on a way to
react. For example, if it hurts to hear lies about you, she can
tell herself, "This isn't true. My mother is not like that, and
nothing they say can change her." Maybe she can even say that
calmly to the attackers. If hearing her father trash you hurts
because it makes her lose respect for him, maybe she can admit to
herself that it's painful when someone you love tries to make you
think less of someone else you love, but the truth is that it's
okay to keep loving both of them.
{{{hugs}}} again to you and your kids.
</delurk>
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<bt581g$388is$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de>...
Mark
can I ask how old your daughter is? Who says she has to go to her Dad's if
she does not want. My (step) daughter at the age of 11 told her Dad she was
no longer going to see him.
Cheers
Mark
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bt581g$388is$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de...
Geri and sometimes Brian
>she does not want.
Not in Cal's case, but in the case of many 11-year olds, the court says when
the kid goes to each parent.
I know that when my SD reaches age 11, she is not going to be able to decide
not to go to BM's house just like that!
~~Geri~~
~Veni, vidi, visa~
I came, I saw, I shopped!
Marky
best for both you and your daughter.
Best wishes
Mark
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.commotion> wrote in message
news:20040103084828...@mb-m06.aol.com...
S&W
news:20040103084828...@mb-m06.aol.com...
decide
> not to go to BM's house just like that!
There is no way I would let my BD or my SD opt out of going to their NCPs
houses for their regular visitation. We have a schedule that we try to
stick to, and if there needs to be changes made, we swap weekends or
whatever. My girls are 13 & 11. However, I think that my daughter's dad
has told her that she can come live with him, when she reaches a certain
age. My SD's BM is trying to buy a house right up the street from us, so I
can see SD going back and forth between the two houses frequently and at
will. I don't know how we plan to handle that.
Anyway, I agree with Geri that a kid at age 11 (or even 13) isn't in a
position to say she will no longer visit one parent, unless there is some
kind serious dysfunction happening during the visits.
shay
Mark
even if they are only 11. As parents step or otherwise we do not have the
right to dictate who they must visit. They must be involved in the decision
making even it means they nolonger see one of the parents.
"S&W" <shan...@excite.com> wrote in message
news:vve50tq...@corp.supernews.com...
lilblakdog
news:10731741...@damia.uk.clara.net...
> I am rather glad then that british law does recognise young peoples rights
> even if they are only 11. As parents step or otherwise we do not have the
> right to dictate who they must visit. They must be involved in the
decision
> making even it means they nolonger see one of the parents.
I couldn't disagree more. If there is some kind of abuse going on--physical
or psychological--that's one thing. But children don't understand that just
because a parent isn't fun or rich or whatever is not a reason to sever
their relationship. And parents have a responsibility to help their
children understand that who and where they came from is important.
Look at how many custodial parents badmouth their exes...and not necessarily
for anything that has to do with their children at all. My cousins' mother
told them that their father didn't want them and didn't give her any money
to look after them, etc, etc...all untrue. But surprise surprise, all on
their own the children didn't want to see him again. When they got older,
they were shocked to discover that he was a good man who supported not only
them, but their mother as well until the day she died.
As parents, you already "dictated" who they had to have in their lives when
you laid down and brought a child into this world. And you're "dictating"
who they have in their lives when you start new relationships and marry new
people. What a silly word...you "dictate" who is in their lives every time
your neighbor comes over for tea, for God's sake. This isn't a
stranger--it's flesh of their flesh and blood of their blood, and through
genetics and memories and influence will effect what they say and do
throughout their lives.
When a child understands and accepts their parents, they will better
understand and accept themselves.
lil
--
http://lilblakdog.tripod.com
Lori
the kids are children is that *parents* have a responsibility to make these
kind of decisions on behalf of the child. Face it - we're talking about
*children* here. Children who get mad and decide they don't want to see
someone anymore for some rediculous reason. Children who, like my SS, get
told over and over, right in front of the non custodial parent and SP, that
when he gets to be a "big kid" he doesn't have to go to dad's anymore and
dad won't be able to do anything about it. I think as long as custodial
parents have the capacity to use a child like that to hurt the other parent,
by brainwashing him into deciding not to go anymore, then no, there should
be no time while they are monors that they may opt out, barring abuse by the
non custodial. Know why BM quit doing this to SS? Because I heard it one
too many times and walked her out of SS's hearing and said if she managed to
convice this child to turn his back on his dad like that, there would never
again from that moment on, be anything forthcoming other than the absolute
basic CS required by the court. Period. She stopped doing it. I'll add one
more thing to this - I believe very, very strongly that unless one can be
proven to be an abusive parent, nobody has a moral right to force them from
their child's life and still make them pay any CS at all.
Lori
"Mark" <mt...@clara.co.uk> wrote in message
news:10731741...@damia.uk.clara.net...
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.556 / Virus Database: 348 - Release Date: 12/26/03
Audra Mellon
>
> This was happening a while ago, and I thought they had stopped, but
> I guess she just hid it better from me.
>
> What is it that I can say to her to help her deal with this kind of
> environment?
> Thanks
> Cal~
Buy "Divorce Poison".
If only I had found this book 10 years ago...
Audra
Wendy
> even if they are only 11. As parents step or otherwise we do not have the
> right to dictate who they must visit. They must be involved in the
decision
> making even it means they nolonger see one of the parents.
I think you're right that British courts will consider the views of children
over 11, but they'll also consider what's in their best interests too. To
be honest, I think it would require a seriously dysfunctional situation
before I would consider the benefits of a child spending time with both
parents other than being in a child's best interests.
Wendy
jane
>environment?
>Thanks
>Cal~
You don't think she's doing okay as it is? What would you do?
At your daughter's age, I think I'd rise to the bait for quite a while before I
just shut my father off. Nowadays, I just wouldn't associate with people
like that, but she doesn't really have that option, does she? So how should
she set limits for them? Leaving the conversation/room/house might be an
option.
Her problem is that they are treating her like shit by subjecting her to
offensive conversations. Her father is demonstrating a lack of respect for
her, not just you. What would you tell her if they insisted on talking about
niggers or faggots or her best friend?
jane
Anne Robotti
<calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>Seems they like to constantly trash talk me and she gets really
>angry, and it escalates to the point where they are all screaming at
>each other. (Real nice, eh?). She feels she has to defend my
>honor, basically.
Well, I don't think getting angry to the point where she's screaming
at them is doing her any good. I'd have her practice rolling her eyes
and saying, "Whatever," or "Not this again, don't you two ever get
tired of it?" and just keeping that up until they *do* get tired of
it.
>I told her to try to ignore it, what they say is of no consequence
>to me, to let it go in one ear & out the other. She replied "no one
>talks like that about someone I love".
Yeah, and that's fine, very noble and everything, but there's also
something to be said for not rising to the bait when somebody's trying
to push your buttons and start a fight with you. Fourteen or so is a
good time to start learning the distinction. My SD had to learn it
around 10.
Anne
Pat
> at them is doing her any good. I'd have her practice rolling her eyes
> and saying, "Whatever," or "Not this again, don't you two ever get
> tired of it?" and just keeping that up until they *do* get tired of
> it.
Anne,
I agree 100%!!!! Maybe if she would do the eye roll every single time they
started in about Cal, they would decide that no amount of bitchin was going
to change the way that Cal's daughter felt!!!
My kids went through exactly the same thing when my X and I got divorced in
1988. They STILL DO!!! My X and their SM STILL bash me to our kids! It's
sickening! And, in reality, I can't imagine being married to someone who
obviously can't let it go!! How sad is that? If my X is putting all the
effort into dissing me, how can he be devoted to his new wife???? Hmmmmm.
And we've been divorced since 1988!!!!!!!!
> Yeah, and that's fine, very noble and everything, but there's also
> something to be said for not rising to the bait when somebody's trying
> to push your buttons and start a fight with you. Fourteen or so is a
> good time to start learning the distinction. My SD had to learn it
> around 10.
My kids had to learn it very young too! It still hasn't stopped!
Pat
_calinda_
suggestions, etc. I've not been feeling well, which is why I've not
responded before today. Still not feeling great, but I've read
through all the replies.
I hope that I can help her deal with this stuff. Like Pat, I wonder
what is so wrong with their lives, that they have to expend so much
energy trashing me.
Again, thanks. I'll keep you updated best I can.
Cal~
les cargot
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message news:<btd0lb$5uaa9$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de>...
> Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's replied with
> suggestions, etc. I've not been feeling well, which is why I've not
> responded before today. Still not feeling great, but I've read
> through all the replies.
Get well soon!
> I hope that I can help her deal with this stuff. Like Pat, I wonder
> what is so wrong with their lives, that they have to expend so much
> energy trashing me.
They're not trashing you. Really. They don't have that power.
Nothing they say or do can diminish you. You are a classy lady
who has done your best to behave decently in the face of their
grossly indecent behavior.
The sad truth is that by their own actions, they have trashed
themselves. Amid their immaturity and selfishness, they probably
realize they don't have much inside to make themselves feel good,
so like lots of bullies, they try to make other people look bad or
feel bad so they'll come out better by comparison. Pathetic.
To me, and BTDT, it's especially sad to see a parent consistently
doing something that makes it impossible for a kid to respect him
or her. I'm sorry your daughter is hurting now, but her father
will lose big-time in the long run. For helping her deal with it,
I like Anne's suggestions, especially the eye roll and the
"Whatever", which not only dismisses the offensive behavior as the
nonsense it is, but should come naturally to most teenagers :-).
> Again, thanks. I'll keep you updated best I can.
> Cal~
{{{hugs}}} and chicken soup to you.
</delurk>
Kathleen
information I will pass it along, or maybe just send it along!
With hope and heart,
Kathleen
--
If you are humble nothing will touch you, neither praise nor disgrace,
because you know what you are.
~Mother Theresa
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:btd0lb$5uaa9$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de...
: Just wanted to say thanks to everyone who's replied with
:
:
The Watsons
"les cargot" <lesca...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1c0c2284.0401...@posting.google.com...
> They're not trashing you. Really. They don't have that power.
> Nothing they say or do can diminish you. You are a classy lady
> who has done your best to behave decently in the face of their
> grossly indecent behavior.
ya know, she can tell her daughter the first three sentences out of
that....:D
>
> The sad truth is that by their own actions, they have trashed
> themselves. Amid their immaturity and selfishness, they probably
> realize they don't have much inside to make themselves feel good,
> so like lots of bullies, they try to make other people look bad or
> feel bad so they'll come out better by comparison. Pathetic.
wonder if there's a way she can tell her daughter that malicious gossips are
immature and selfish without being the pot calling the kettle? :)
Jess
B_Motsel
courage in sticking up
for her Mom. I think they're asses for doing it too.
It would seem to me that she *should* be able to make her wishes known that
she does not
intend to discuss her Mother with her Father or her stepmother, and that she
has the right to
walk away, leave the room, whatever. I can't believe that her Dad would hurt
her like that
over & over again. It's one thing to bash you with his ex, quite another to
gang up on you and
expect your daughter to participate.
And if his new wife had any class, she'd walk out of the room, too. I try
not to discuss
my husband's ex at all, and I make a point to defend her (in general) when
my stepkids make the kind of comments
we all made about our parents at one time or another. There's enough
dissention in the ranks already -
why make it worse?!?
LB
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:bt581g$388is$1...@ID-178944.news.uni-berlin.de...
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>I echo the sentiments of another poster, who lauded your daughter for her
>courage in sticking up
>for her Mom. I think they're asses for doing it too.
They're asses for doing it, of course, but that neither addresses the
problem nor helps SD. Having Cal start saying they're asses for doing
it just moves the problem to the *other* house too and exacerbates it.
These aren't the only people who are ever going to try to push SD's
buttons. She can't get into a screaming fight with all of them.
Anne
B_Motsel
doesn't help the SD, but I don't think anyone ever suggested that particular
comment be shared with the SD - just a little cheerleading on the part of me
and the original poster.
As to what would help the SD, I never meant to imply she should get into
a screaming match with anyone - in fact I believe I supported the
non-confrontational
approach at the end of my post, i.e. walking away from the situation before
it escalates.
LB
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:rbvnvvo897o9q15re...@4ax.com...
jane
>These aren't the only people who are ever going to try to push SD's
>buttons. She can't get into a screaming fight with all of them.
>
>Anne
I completely agree about learning to control your reactions in a heated
situation. OTOH, don't we all have stuff that we just refuse to tolerate?
Stuff that we are entitled to refuse to tolerate? What do you do when it's a
dealbreaker and you can't just walk away?
IME, this is a big challenge for teens. There are and should be limits to what
one tolerates from other people, including family. What are teens supposed to
do after they say they're offended and the other person continues to do
whatever it is?
Do you see what I'm getting at? The specific complaint here is badmouthing her
mother, an established taboo. I don't think Cal should allow the fact that she
is the mother being slammed to obfuscate the issue here. What would you tell
the girl if the complaint was calling her fat or calling her brother stupid or
beating the dog? Because what Cal is doing here is instructing her on how to
handle that whole middle zone between singing off key and rape.
So I don't see this as a question of self-control. I see it as a question of
judgment. How do you decide what is tolerable and what is not? What criteria
do you use? How do you deal with the intolerable?
jane
Anne Robotti
>>
>>These aren't the only people who are ever going to try to push SD's
>>buttons. She can't get into a screaming fight with all of them.
>>
>>Anne
>
>I completely agree about learning to control your reactions in a heated
>situation. OTOH, don't we all have stuff that we just refuse to tolerate?
>Stuff that we are entitled to refuse to tolerate? What do you do when it's a
>dealbreaker and you can't just walk away?
I have stuff I refuse to tolerate, sure. But I certainly don't get
into a screaming fight every time about it, or even most of the time.
>
>IME, this is a big challenge for teens. There are and should be limits to what
>one tolerates from other people, including family. What are teens supposed to
>do after they say they're offended and the other person continues to do
>whatever it is?
Well, what do you do when it's a boss, a coworker, somebody you can't
just scream at? You find other ways to deal with it.
>
>Do you see what I'm getting at? The specific complaint here is badmouthing her
>mother, an established taboo. I don't think Cal should allow the fact that she
>is the mother being slammed to obfuscate the issue here. What would you tell
>the girl if the complaint was calling her fat or calling her brother stupid or
>beating the dog? Because what Cal is doing here is instructing her on how to
>handle that whole middle zone between singing off key and rape.
But seriously, for me, this doesn't even make it to the middle. Her
father doesn't like her mother and says so. Welcome to being a kid
whose parents are divorced. I mean, yes, it's wrong and mean and they
should shut the hell up. But I bet they don't bother the son with it.
>
>So I don't see this as a question of self-control. I see it as a question of
>judgment. How do you decide what is tolerable and what is not? What criteria
>do you use? How do you deal with the intolerable?
I dont' see it as a question of judgment of what's tolerable. I see it
as a question of judgment in terms of your behavior when something is
intolerable. Plus, I don't think you can discount the
teenage-girl-needing-drama factor here, if it's at play. You need
something to fight about, and there's something.
Anne