shoplifting
janelaw
help!
I just found out that my children have been shoplifting. I got
the heads up from another parent whose kids rolled over on
mine. I am relieved that I did not get a call from the police.
Details: Bio-daughter is 10. SD is 15, and has been living
with us for 5 months. Shoplifting appears to have been going on
for a month or so. Stolen objects consist mainly of makeup and
candy. Several other 10 year olds seem to have been involved.
My problem: I think maybe I reacted too quickly on this one. I
grounded each girl from friends, t.v., phone for a month. I let
other parents know that this might be a good time to discuss
shoplifting with their own kids, without saying they were
definitely involved (it was about as much fun as the head lice
call). Since no other teenagers were involved, I have not
discussed this with SD's friends' parents. Then I realized that
if I had caught either of the girls shoplifting with a friend, I
would have grounded them from seeing that friend. Instead, they
are pretty much confined to spending all their time with their
co-defendant. Also, to enforce the restrictions, either DH or I
have to be home all the time. I have pretty much grounded
myself with two bored kids for a month.
QUESTION: So what do I do now? Have I over-reacted? I think
consistency is important, and I really don't want to rescind the
grounding. Besides, I told the girls they were grounded for a
month no matter what they answered my questions about how long
it had been going on and how much they had taken (I was looking
for full disclosure.) Also, should I have differentiated
between the kids due to the disparity in their ages? BTW, this
all came to a head the night before Mother's Day.
to reply by email, please place "mail" before "excite"
Sandra Brackeen
My parents grounded me for serious behavior problems for long amounts of
time without any privledges I was taught alot more by this than any other
punishment...except when I started driving and they took the car privleges
away....that was a real good lesson...I think you are going to have to
suffer..If my parents had backed down even once I would probally have done
the crime again....next time say two weeks instead of four..grounding is a
punishment for parents tooo>>>
janelaw <jan...@excite.com> wrote in article
<6jfath$p...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>...
> help!
K. Rasch
I don't really have a comment on the length or type of punishment, I don't
know your kids. What I do know, however, is that my kids need to know how
to say..."whoa! I made a mistake" "Wait a minute... maybe I overreacted".
If I make a statement out of anger or frustration, and then have time to
process it, I want to be the kind of person that can say, "I made a
mistake", and I want my kids to be able to do that too. I can remember
several times that the punishment DID NOT fit the crime when my kids were
growing up (and I am sure that there were times that the punishment didn't
fit the crime on the light side as well). I am not saying that that is the
case here... But I do think it is an important lesson for the kids to
know... that sometimes we over-react and need to back up a re-group.
My father NEVER apologized or admitted a mistake (even tho we ALL know there
was more than one!). The result was that it was very difficult for ME to
admit that I had made one. I never had a role model to show me that that
was ok. That human-ness demands that we are open to making mistakes because
we all do it!
My .02 only!
Krasch
Sandra Brackeen wrote in message
<01bd7f6e$71959340$0dfd...@dblclick.pmci.net>...
Vicki Robinson
In a previous article, "K. Rasch" <kra...@pobox.com> said:
>I don't really have a comment on the length or type of punishment, I don't
>know your kids. What I do know, however, is that my kids need to know how
>to say..."whoa! I made a mistake" "Wait a minute... maybe I overreacted".
>If I make a statement out of anger or frustration, and then have time to
>process it, I want to be the kind of person that can say, "I made a
>mistake", and I want my kids to be able to do that too.
I think this is a very good point. I'd only like to add that it's
important for the kids to know that you've reconsidered the severity
of the *punishment*, not the heinousness of the "crime." It's not
that you've thought about it and decided that shoplifting is really
not such a big deal, because it is. (Maybe the statistics on how much
the cost of our clothing and cosmetics and things is driven up by
shoplifting might impress them; it's not some big corporation that's
losing money, it's me and you and *them* everytime they pay for
something.) It's that you've thought about the punishment, and
decided that 4 weeks is too dire for this offense. And if they ever
do it again, they'll *wish* they were only getting 4 weeks. I am all
for escalation in the severity of punishments for repeated
misbehavior.
I also think that requiring them to make a donation to your local
foodshelf, from their own money, would be a good idea. Instead of
thinking of themselves and what they want, they need to think about other
people and be aware that some of them don't even have enough to *eat*,
much less cosmetics and and other "essentials."
Vicki
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King&Furnish
My .02... when I was a teen, I used to shoplift things like lipsticks,
candy -"small" things that I didn't need, but wanted to take because I
"wanted" them. The only thing that stopped me was when 2 of my friends got
caught, arrested, and had to do community service at age 16, the very
humiliating task of repainting the white stones that ringed the town common.
There is a lot to be said for shame when it comes to modifying behaviour.
What your kids did is wrong, and the thing is, they KNEW it was wrong, but
did it anyway. Who's to say 2 weeks of grounding or 4 weeks of no TV will
really affect them. I'm sure you have taught them that taking things that
don't belong to them is wrong - we all know that! I knew that, too, but I
still went along with the group and nicked whatever I liked. However, just
the IDEA of having to admit to everyone that I knew that I had done
something so stupid (hate the crime, not the person) was so terrifying that
I stopped and never did it again.
My suggestion would be to create some kind of repayment that will make them
feel embarassed for their bad judgement. I'm not saying put them out on the
lawn in the stocks, or anything, but you may want to consider having them
write a letter to the shop, via a local newspaper. It would send a strong
message to their friends, too, that may help deter them from making such bad
choices.
I would NOT vote for you to change the punishment. Tell them that you do
feel that you may have over-reacted, but don't change the punishment. Yes,
grounding punishes you, too, but I really think that saying you made a
mistake would be wrong.
I'm not suggesting you scar them emotionally. Just make them realise how
wrong (not bad, wrong) they were.
good luck,
Posey
mer...@hotmail.com
In article <6jfath$p...@bgtnsc01.worldnet.att.net>,
janelaw <jan...@excite.com> wrote:
[month grounding for shoplifting -- too severe?]
I'm not sure -- it might be, and as you point it you've grounded yourself and
your husband. Why not talk it over with your husband and think about what
would be the most appropriate, most likely-to-be-effective, response? When
you've thoroughly hashed it out and decided on a plan, you can both talk with
the girls.
My stepson left some wax on a hotplate unattended last night, and it caught on
fire -- which he tried to put out by dumping water on it. Big splatter, a
curtain caught on fire, and he frantically tried to get more water. I put it
out with a fire extinguisher, and told him through gritted teeth that we would
discuss this later, but that I did want him to write an account of how it
happened.
I'm going to remember this and keep it in reserve -- he did sit down and write
an account, and he held himself fully responsible, and he was much harsher on
himself than I would have been! We're not done with this, but I think it is
turning out to be a teaching moment -- for all of us. Stepson will be buying
replacement fire extinguishers, developing an emergency plan for the house,
etc.
Why not tell each girl to write an account of the shoplifting -- separately.
Their accounts will tell you whether they understand what they did and whether
they accept responsibility or are trying to snow you or rationalize away their
choices.
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Postm...@jeaves-pc.eng.mc.xerox.com
The problem I have with any punishment is the fact that my kids spend
50% of the time with dad. So how do you get a months worth or even a
weeks worth of grounding in? It does not seem fair that he has to
impose the punishment for a crime at my house. The problem is my 11
year old son. He gives me hard time most of his waking hours, but is
very well behaved for his father. He was so awful the other day that
I called his father and blew him in. This is about the only way I
can get through to him to behave some days. On wednesday when he went
his dad's house it was a beautiful day and they had planned a long
bike ride. This was cancelled as punishment for his behavior in the
morning. The problem being my daughter and her dad were also punished.
FallMorn
<<<My problem: I think maybe I reacted too quickly on this one. I grounded
each girl from friends, t.v., phone for a month.>>>
I think your instincts were absolutely on target. Quick reaction is not
necessarily a bad thing. You mentioned that you were glad you didn't get a
phone call from the police. You can imagine that your choice of a one month's
restriction, for your children AS WELL as for yourself, is mild compared to
what you would be dealing with if you HAD received a call from the police.
Sometimes we must show our children just how important their behavior is to us,
by being WILLING to restrict ourselves along with the kids. Unfortunately,
personal convenience has little place in a situation in which important lessons
are being learned.
Childish prank are inevitable. However, ILLEGAL childish pranks should NEVER
be taken lightly, or handled with a slap on the wrist. I agree with other
posters who say that in order to teach our children the ability to admit that
they are wrong, we must be willing to admit it when we are wrong. However, in
this particular incidence, I don't think you were wrong, & I do think that
backing down from this VERY serious infraction will send the wrong message to
your children.
Janice
Neuminosum
Our first incident (and the only one I know of) happened with our youngest
child (my step) when she was six. Seh took candy from one of the
"serve-your-self" bins while I wasn't watching. I caught her eating what she
took while we were still in the store.
We talked about this while finishing our shopping, and decided the right thing
to do would be to go tell the store manager what she did. At the checkout
stand, Kate, in tears, asked to speak to the Manager, and told the manager
about taking candy from the bin and eating it without paying for it. Kate was
so terrified at having been caught and going to talk with the manager, and the
manager (who has three kids of her own), took kate's offense seriously
enough-knowing this was a teaching opportunity.
Kate paid the $.50 that was in her pocket for the value of the candy, and vowed
not to take things that she hadn't paid for ever again. She still remembers
this incident every time we go to that particular store, and hopefully the
lesson will stick with her for a long time.
FallMorn
<<<Kate paid the $.50 that was in her pocket for the value of the candy, and
vowed
not to take things that she hadn't paid for ever again. She still remembers
this incident every time we go to that particular store, and hopefully the
lesson will stick with her for a long time.>>>
How wise you are! No doubt this lesson will stick - this lucky little girl had
the good fortune to have understanding, caring & knowledgable adults around
her, taking her "education" seriously, to help her learn this valuable lesson!
Janice
boo...@hotmail.com
Wow I can't believe how timely this topic is! Here's my dilemma:
Friday afternoon my 11 y.o. stepson was tagging along while I ran errands.
After the grocery store he asked, "do we have time to run into X store, they
just got new Beanie Babies in?" I looked at my watch and was mulling it over
and he said, "I can just run in, I'll be really quick." So I said "okay meet
me at the car."
A little later he came bursting out of the little mall, brandishing a new
Beanie Baby. He said, "you won't believe what happened -- this lady saw me
looking at the BBs and said 'which one do you like best?' and then she bought
it for me!"
Warning bells all over the place. No bag, no receipt, vague retelling of the
story (it's a stranger, no it's some kid's mom but I just can't remember
who's). Not in the store long enough. None of this would worry me so much if
he wasn't a chronic lier (you know, the stuff a bio calls having an active
imagination and a step calls making sh*t up? :-))
Okay, the good thing is that his dad had the same reaction as I did (so I
didn't have to introduce the ugly thought). Here's my dilemma: I could go to
the store and ask them if this happened (small store, owner working most
hours). But, okay, here's the problem: if he _did_ take it, then I have to
tell dad, who has to make SS bring it back and all those yucky things that
dads hate as much as kids do. And anyway, am I just hung up on this 'cause I
want to show dad that kid lies a lot? Or do I just want to head bigger trouble
off at the pass.
Well, y'all can't divine my motivations for me I know :-), but if you were in
my shoes, what would you do? Leave well enough alone and keep an eye out? Or
satisfy that itching curiosity but run the risk of putting DH in a no-fun
situation.
Thanks!
Jane
St0rmsfate
>Well, y'all can't divine my motivations for me I know :-), but if you were
>my shoes, what would you do? Leave well enough alone and keep an eye out?
>satisfy that itching curiosity but run the risk of putting DH in a no-fun<BR>
>situation.<BR>
<BR>
<BR>
Jane<br>
<br>
This isn't about you or your DH or how comfortable <br> either of you are, but
rather <br> about your S/S and teaching him <br> the difference between right
and <br> wrong. You won't be <br> doing him any favors in letting <br> him get
away with this. <br>
Next time, he may be going to prison<br> for embezzlement. <br>
<br>
Just my .02 cents!
<br>
Laura
nancy g.
boo...@hotmail.com wrote:
(some snips just to save space)
> Warning bells all over the place. No bag, no receipt, vague retelling of the
> story (it's a stranger, no it's some kid's mom but I just can't remember
> who's). Not in the store long enough.
Agreed, that it definitely sounds suspicious.
> None of this would worry me so much if he wasn't a chronic lier
Oh, I think it would be worth worrying about (assuming he actually *did*
shoplift it, I mean) even if he'd been an absolute saint up to this point.
After all, he *did* take something from a store without paying for it,
and he is certainly old enough to know and understand how wrong this is.
> Okay, the good thing is that his dad had the same reaction as I did
> (so I didn't have to introduce the ugly thought).
So I interpret this to mean that you have talked this over with his dad?
That you have told his dad what happened?
> Here's my dilemma: I could go to the store and ask them if this happened
> (small store, owner working most hours). But, okay, here's the problem:
> if he _did_ take it, then I have to tell dad
Um ... am I missing something here? You *did* discuss this with your
husband, right? So ... doesn't he already know that his son might possibly
have taken something from the store? Doesn't he think that *one* of you
two parents ought to find out the truth? Won't he be wondering what you
find out? Doesn't he agree that the two of you should determine the truth?
> who has to make SS bring it back and all those yucky things that
> dads hate as much as kids do.
So you think you should just let this slide, and let your stepson get away
with stealing something from a store, and have no consequences to face,
because you think your husband won't be thrilled about having to do it?
Um ... OK, I have to admit I've never been in this exact situation, but I have
been in the position of having to make my kids confess to authorities that they
had done something serious (my son once pulled the fire alarm at school), and
I understand that it is not pleasant. However, it's also a very real and very
important part of parenting. I don't think "he hates to do things like this"
is an acceptable excuse for blowing off parental responsibility.
Our kids *need* us to teach them right from wrong. If we don't want to follow
through on this essential need, then we have no right raising these children.
Sorry if I sound harsh, but I just can't imagine letting a child do something
like this and then just dropping the ball without doing anything about it.
> And anyway, am I just hung up on this 'cause I want to show dad that
> kid lies a lot? Or do I just want to head bigger trouble off at the pass.
Well, you are the only one who can answer that question -- but I think that
*someone* needs to deal with what your stepson has done, regardless of the
motivations that might lie behind your reactions to it.
I hope this doesn't come across sounding like I'm being too self-righteous.
I know it's tough discovering that one of your bio kids has done something wrong,
and I can understand that it makes it even harder when it's a stepkid. But the
fact that it's difficult doesn't change the fact that you know something must
be done about it ... nobody ever promised that raising children was going to be
all fun and games!
Let us know what happens!
Nancy G.
still a stepmom wannabe for a while longer ...
jac...@myriad.net
In article <6jpegr$4s7$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
boo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>Here's my dilemma: I could go to
> the store and ask them if this happened (small store, owner working most
> hours). But, okay, here's the problem: if he _did_ take it, then I have to
> tell dad, who has to make SS bring it back and all those yucky things that
> dads hate as much as kids do. And anyway, am I just hung up on this 'cause I
> want to show dad that kid lies a lot? Or do I just want to head bigger trouble
> off at the pass.
Do it. Don't expect to learn anything (different sales clerks, lots of
customers, etc.), but do it. If he did take it, then he needs to return it
and apologize, even if it's no fun for dad. To be dramatic, it's also no fun
for dad to visit his son in jail for grand theft larceny or some other crime.
;-) The truth is that parenting is ugly sometimes. And hard. But in this
case, I think it'd be worth finding out what you can about the incident.
And don't worry about your motives. The primary one, obviously, is to do the
right thing and have ss do the right thing. The sense of triumph you feel at
showing DH that his son has a lying problem can be enjoyed without feeling
guilty. You came to it honestly.
Good luck,
Lisa
FallMorn
<<<However, it's also a very real and very important part of parenting. I
don't think "he hates to do things like this" is an acceptable excuse for
blowing off parental responsibility.
Our kids *need* us to teach them right from wrong. If we don't want to follow
through on this essential need, then we have no right raising these
children.>>>
Nancy, I couldn't agree more! As you said, no one ever said parenting would be
easy, or without some incredibly difficult & uncomfortable responsibilities.
Jane, I understand your feelings that DH should handle this, but if he chooses
to ignore it, I don't think you would be out of line to march that boy right
back to the store, if for no other reasons than he asked YOU to take him, & YOU
are the one on which he pulled his con.
Janice
janelaw
Listen to Lisa.
Obviously, since mine was the original post, I am having my own
problems with handling this situation. However, one thing I am
certain of is that I should have listened to those warning
bells. My kids went to the store a couple of times when I
thought their allowances were all spent. I just told myself
that their father had given them money. Then I never got around
to asking him.
Now I see I was a fool. I should have known. Maybe in the back
of my mind I DID know and did not have the energy to deal with
it. I really hate looking a person in the eyes and telling her
that she is lying.
Anyway, kids don't seem to stop until they get caught. So you
might as well jump up on this one. The whole idea of a
confrontation scene may make your skin crawl, but you are better
off doing it in your living room that at the police station.
BTW, this NG has been very helpful; thank you all very much.
boo...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
> Wow I can't believe how timely this topic is! Here's my dilemma:
>
> Friday afternoon my 11 y.o. stepson was tagging along while I ran errands.
> After the grocery store he asked, "do we have time to run into X store, they
> just got new Beanie Babies in?" I looked at my watch and was mulling it over
> and he said, "I can just run in, I'll be really quick." So I said "okay meet
> me at the car."
>
> A little later he came bursting out of the little mall, brandishing a new
> Beanie Baby. He said, "you won't believe what happened -- this lady saw me
> looking at the BBs and said 'which one do you like best?' and then she bought
> it for me!"
>
> Warning bells all over the place. No bag, no receipt, vague retelling of the
> story (it's a stranger, no it's some kid's mom but I just can't remember
> who's). Not in the store long enough. None of this would worry me so much if
> he wasn't a chronic lier (you know, the stuff a bio calls having an active
> imagination and a step calls making sh*t up? :-))
>
> Okay, the good thing is that his dad had the same reaction as I did (so I
> didn't have to introduce the ugly thought). Here's my dilemma: I could go to
> the store and ask them if this happened (small store, owner working most
> hours). But, okay, here's the problem: if he _did_ take it, then I have to
> tell dad, who has to make SS bring it back and all those yucky things that
> dads hate as much as kids do. And anyway, am I just hung up on this 'cause I
> want to show dad that kid lies a lot? Or do I just want to head bigger trouble
> off at the pass.
>
> Well, y'all can't divine my motivations for me I know :-), but if you were in
> my shoes, what would you do? Leave well enough alone and keep an eye out? Or
> satisfy that itching curiosity but run the risk of putting DH in a no-fun
> situation.
>
> Thanks!
>
> Jane
janelaw
thanks, i appreciate the support.
i do wish i had devised something more constructive tho.
Merrie
this is for Jane:
Given that you've already told Dad - He should be the one to go back to
the store and make inquiries. If you discuss this with him and discover
he would like to know also and he wants you to go back to the store then
do so. If you go back to the store to find out without discussing it
with him first, then I suggest you don't bring it up again. Let your
own curiosity be satisfied. It would alert you to watch for the next
time if he did take something. There will be a next time...
In hindsight you should have marched the kid right back into the store,
as to inquire about the lady in order to Thank her properly.
Casually asking the store owner about the woman's identity would give
the opportunity for the owner to alert you if the kid's story wasn't
quite true and at the same time it isn't an out and out right accusation
to the kid.
The manner in which this was done really suggest that this child is
screaming for your attention. Notice this wasn't done with friends
after school, rather it was done with you...
Our 12 year old was caught stealing candy and he had apparently taken
many other things from other stores also. He was a steadfast liar and
wouldn't come clean on any of it. My husband was also holding the older
brother partially responsible because he didn't prevent the younger one
from doing it. We seperated them and asked them to write down everything
the younger boy had taken. We told both of them we know there's more so
keep writing. It eventually all came out.
(Can you believe the boy took a pair of pants - put them on in the
dressing room - while out shopping with Dad; his Dad WAS buying him
pants!! He didn't need to steal them!!)
Dad took all the things back to where they came from, made our son
apologize to all. In those circumstances when we couldn't tell what was
taken from what was actually his (baseball cards) we made him take it
all back.
We took away his new prized BMX bike because we wanted him to exprience
"loss" like he casued others. (By the way I still have the bike up at
Grandma's. Anyone want to buy it?)
He was grounded to the house for a month during which if he didn't
behave well it would continue.
He was grounded from going into any stores until the end of the school
year (this occured in September).
We also started calling him on anything that remotely sounded like a
lie. We were not very concerned with making false accusations since he
had earned this response. It is the real response you get when people
discover you are a liar. I think he understands how easily you can
break someone's trust.
That was a while ago and he's fine now.
Merrie
janelaw
Merrie wrote:
>
> snip
> Our 12 year old was caught stealing candy and he had apparently taken
> many other things from other stores also. He was a steadfast liar and
> wouldn't come clean on any of it.
> snip
> We took away his new prized BMX bike because we wanted him to exprience
> "loss" like he casued others. (By the way I still have the bike up at
> Grandma's. Anyone want to buy it?)
>
> He was grounded to the house for a month during which if he didn't
> behave well it would continue.
>
> He was grounded from going into any stores until the end of the school
> year (this occured in September).
>
> We also started calling him on anything that remotely sounded like a
> lie. We were not very concerned with making false accusations since he
> had earned this response. It is the real response you get when people
> discover you are a liar. I think he understands how easily you can
> break someone's trust.
>
> That was a while ago and he's fine now.
i have a couple of questions. what consequence do you feel best
demonstrated to your son the seriousness of his infraction?
also, do you feel that questioning him and checking up on him
all the time taught him to be more honest? is he just honest
with you, or is he more honest with everyone?
sometimes i have trouble differentiating between normal
preadolescent activity and sociopathinc behavior.
BTW, my kids are STILL grounded and we have survived so far.