Transportation
CIT
This is my first post. I'm a new step-mom. Things are going quite well
for us in
comparison to what I've read from some of you. I would like to hear
from anyone about
transportation of the children. In our case, my husband has one son.
We live about 1
hour away from him.(He just turned 3) Ever since their separation when
the child was 9
months old, my husband has seen his son the maximum amount allowed in
the court order
and has done 100 % of the driving. His ex absolutely refuses to share
the driving at all.
(She has a car) What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
you have shared
responsibility for transportation, how did this come about? Even though
we would
snowshoe across the Tundra to see him, it would be nice if BM would do
the same!
Cit
SoccerStepMom
Hi, Cit, and welcome.
Does your husband's court order say anything about who does the driving?
My husband has had two custody agreements since his divorce (first she
had primary custody, now he does), and they both specified the pickup
and delivery locations. The first one said that all exchanges would be
at a location midway between the two parents' residences. Somehow,
this ended up being a place that was 10 mins from her house and 30 from
his, but that's quibbling.
The current agreement says that she will pick up and drop off at the
beginning and end of each of her custody periods. I'm not sure why it
was written this way. But it doesn't seem to be a problem for her (she
only lives about 15 minutes away), and when she occasionally does ask
him to drive, he always accommodates.
I guess if the agreement is silent on the matter, then fairness mihgt
come down to who it was that moved one hour away. If she moved after
the split, then she should bear most of the burden of transportation,
and in fact may even be legally required to do this. If he was the one
who chose to move, perhaps she feels it's not her responsibility.
Anyway, good luck, and congrats on your marriage! SSM
Andrew&Posey
My SDs live 2 hours away (by train - we don't own a car) and we make the 4
hours return trip on Saturday morning & then again Sunday night every 2
weeks. It's taken a year to get their mother to deign to meet us at the
train station (about a 10 mintue walk from their building) so I can't
imagine that she will ever share in the cost (we spend over 120 a month in
transportation) of us being involved int he girls' lives.
Good luck,
Posey
Daryl & Tina Williams
he still drive all that way to pick him up. Then, my husband moved 4 hours
away due to a job transfer and he still has to do all of the driving.
Because of this, my husband only sees his son once a month or less.
However, his ex has informed us that in the next year, her husband may be
transferred to Chicago which is 6 hours away from us. Since she will have
to get the court's permission to move, my husband is going to bring the
driving issue up in court and have something in writing. But, if she
doesn't inform the court of the move, then we are going after custody.
CIT wrote in message <363ABB7A...@NETSCAPE.NET>...
Stephanie
Stephanie wrote in message ...
>l
>CIT wrote in message <363ABB7A...@NETSCAPE.NET>...
>>Hi everyone,
>>
>>This is my first post. I'm a new step-mom. Things are going quite well
>>for us in
>>comparison to what I've read from some of you. I would like to hear
>>from anyone about
>>transportation of the children. In our case, my husband has one son.
>>We live about 1
>>hour away from him.(He just turned 3) Ever since their separation when
>>the child was 9
>>months old, my husband has seen his son the maximum amount allowed in
>>the court order
>>and has done 100 % of the driving. His ex absolutely refuses to share
>>the driving at all.
>>(She has a car) What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
>>you have shared
>>responsibility for transportation, how did this come about? Even though
>>we would
>>snowshoe across the Tundra to see him, it would be nice if BM would do
>>the same!
>>
>>Cit
>>
modification of the divorce decree. We usually take SS to his BM's then she
brings him home. It is an hour away.
Stephanie
nancy g.
> What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
> you have shared responsibility for transportation, how did this
> come about?
Hi, CIT, and welcome to the group!
My ex and I had the transportation details written right into our
separation agreement. It says that I agree to drop the kids off by
6 pm on Fridays at his house, and he will return them to my house
by 6 pm on Sundays, and then it says something like "or any other
terms on which both parents mutually agree" which was put in there
so we wouldn't have to bother going back to court to get the actual
wording changed if we decided that another schedule would work better
for us.
I don't know whether it would be worth the trouble or not for you to
go to court to get something like that written into your agreement,
but it's certainly reasonable of you to ask for it. Most of the couples
I know whose kids go back and forth do a 50-50 split of the driving,
unless there's a practical reason that it works out easier not to.
One thing I read somewhere -- but too late to bother changing my own
agreement -- was that in general, it works out the best if the person
who is *getting* the kids does the driving, rather than the one who is
*leaving* the kids. Apparently this makes the adult a little more likely
to attempt to be on time (I can see that -- you'd be more careful about
watching the clock if your kids were sitting there with their bags waiting
for you to come get them than you might be if you were returning them
after having spent time with them) Also, this way is supposed to be a little
easier on the kids, or so it said in this article I read, because being
"picked up" by the NCP feels better to them than being "dropped off" by the CP.
(I'm not so sure about that one, but that's what the article claimed.)
Hope this helps a bit. Let us know how things go.
nancy g.
whose 45-minute drive on Friday is through rush hour traffic,
while my ex gets a nice, pleasant Sunday afternoon drive,
grumble grumble, and if I'd done it the "right" way it would be
the other way around, but it's too late to change it now.
Vicki Robinson
>
>I don't know whether it would be worth the trouble or not for you to
>go to court to get something like that written into your agreement,
>but it's certainly reasonable of you to ask for it. Most of the couples
>I know whose kids go back and forth do a 50-50 split of the driving,
>unless there's a practical reason that it works out easier not to.
>
And, of course, this is a situation tailor-made for mediation.
Just a thought.
Vicki
--
Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources:
http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html
The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com/
Merrie
until there are other modifications to the order that need to occur. I
can see this happening when the child starts school. You need to sit
down and think about your situation. I usually recommend for NCP's that
if they can and if they have weekend visits that they pick the child up
from school and drop them back off at school - because it helps the NCP
become more directly involved in the school. As far as other times, I
recommend the parent receiving the child do the pick up. Our
transportation arrangments evolved into this for the reasons that nancy
g. has stated and also because there may be some stuff that needs to
accompany the child. Children being dropped off can't retrieve
forgotten belongings.
Merrie
CIT wrote:
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is my first post. I'm a new step-mom. Things are going quite well
> for us in
> comparison to what I've read from some of you. I would like to hear
> from anyone about
> transportation of the children. In our case, my husband has one son.
> We live about 1
> hour away from him.(He just turned 3) Ever since their separation when
> the child was 9
> months old, my husband has seen his son the maximum amount allowed in
> the court order
> and has done 100 % of the driving. His ex absolutely refuses to share
> the driving at all.
> (She has a car) What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
> you have shared
Yvette Campbell
For the first 2 years we were married, whoever had my two SSs at the time
took responsibility for bringing them to the other parent...If DH and I had
the boys (DH has sole custody) then we would deliver them to BM for her
access visit. If BM had the boys for an access visit, then she would return
them to DH and I.
When I married DH and two SSs, I moved into the marital home that DH had
previously shared with BM. BM had continued to treat what was now my home
as if it was still hers - she kept her key (still has it to this day!),
would call in during an access visit to collect the boys coats, or their
bicycles, or to make a coffee. SHe would walk in, pack their clothes for
their access visit, walk out again.
The shock of becoming a step-mum took me that two years to get over. At the
two year point, I finally stood up for myself and told DH to tell BM that
she was not to come into our home unannounced under any circumstances- and
she was preferably not to come around at all. DH decided then and there
that to give BM less opportunity to visit our home, as well as to give me
some piece of mind, that he would take on all transportation - dropping the
boys off and collecting them from their mother's home.
This is how it has been for the last seven years, although my eldest SS
recently turned 18 and now has his drivers' licence, so that he now drives
himself and his brother over to BMS, relieving us of any responsibility at
all (HOORAY!!!) Yvette
CIT
questions about the details so I'll briefly fill you in.
When they separated, BM moved out with the baby and moved into her mother's
place which was about 10 minutes away. My hubby stayed in their house but
sold it within a few months and moved to an apartment about 15 minutes away.
They lived this distance apart from the time they separated till 17 months
later. During this time they went through mediation, which settled a lot of
issues but did not resolve this issue. Unfortunately, the mediator was of the
opinion that it was an insignificant point and should be dropped. Hubby had
no other alternative but to leave it alone. Shortly after mediation, he moved
1 hour away. We are not willing to go to court about it as a sole issue but
if we are there to make amendments to the current agreement we may address
it. We are concerned too about the fact that he put the distance between him
and his son and figure that we wouldn't win anyway.
That's it for now.
Thanks for welcoming me to the group. It's nice to talk to people who
understand!
CIT
VanEx Fire Systems
>
> Hi everyone,
>
> This is my first post. I'm a new step-mom. Things are going quite well
> for us in
> comparison to what I've read from some of you. I would like to hear
> from anyone about
> transportation of the children. In our case, my husband has one son.
> We live about 1
> hour away from him.(He just turned 3) Ever since their separation when
> the child was 9
> months old, my husband has seen his son the maximum amount allowed in
> the court order
> and has done 100 % of the driving. His ex absolutely refuses to share
> the driving at all.
> (She has a car) What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
> you have shared
> responsibility for transportation, how did this come about? Even though
> we would
> snowshoe across the Tundra to see him, it would be nice if BM would do
> the same!
>
> Cit
In our case, we have to do the driving. My husband's ex would never
voluntarily bring her son to our house. If she had her way, we'd never
see him. Anyway, she only lives about 5 minutes away, so it's not that
difficult. My husband also has 2 children from a previous marriage that
we have custody of. This ex is easier to deal with. The way it works
is we have them 9 months she has them 3 (summer months). (She lives
about 20 minutes away.) When it's her turn for parenting time, she
picks them up, drops them off etc. When she has them for 3 months and
it's our parenting time, we pick them up, drop them off etc. It seems
pretty fair to us.
MJS
L. Taylor
BM isn't home at the agreed upon time. We have been dropping them off at
7 pm every other Sunday for years and she isn't home. It makes me livid.
We used to drive another 10 minutes to drop the children at the grandparents
but have decided that isn't fair to us or the grandparents. So, now when
she isn't there and hasn't made arrangements, we bring them the 45 minutes
back to our house and let her come get them.
Louise
--
Official Sundae Maker of the RFA
http://www.aracnet.com/~lsundae
There is supposed to be something witty here but I lost my wits last week. If you see them, please return them to me ASAP.
Marjorie Newman
my DH(BF), he and BM met half way...two hours there and two hours back
for each person. But when our relationship became serious and we became
engaged BM would not compromise. So we spent eight hours on a round-trip
thing for a weekend visit. Of course it pissed me off but my DH and SD
had time together which was the ultimate goal.
I would strongly suggest that if BM and DH were previously married that
someone address the transportation issue legally. It truly cuts costs of
transportation and makes everyone happier having something set in stone.
Linda Neal
<snip>
>What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
>you have shared responsibility for transportation, how did this come >about?
My husband has been CP for 9 years and in that time we have participated
in many different transportation methods for visits to bio-mom. But
what we do now is the greatest. Three years ago she moved out to the
California desert, a 2-hour drive from us. Last year, when SS was 12,
we found out that Greyhound has an express bus that leaves 5 miles east
of us and its first stop (being an express) is bio-mom's small town. Of
course it's also an express on the way back. *Everybody* involved is
happy with this arrangement. Costs $27.00, which my husband and bio-mom
split.
Linda
Lili
wants a favor from DH...then (and only then) she'll offer to meet us half
way.
CIT wrote in message <363ABB7A...@NETSCAPE.NET>...
>Hi everyone,
>
>This is my first post. I'm a new step-mom. Things are going quite well
>for us in
>comparison to what I've read from some of you. I would like to hear
>from anyone about
>transportation of the children. In our case, my husband has one son.
>We live about 1
>hour away from him.(He just turned 3) Ever since their separation when
>the child was 9
>months old, my husband has seen his son the maximum amount allowed in
>the court order
>and has done 100 % of the driving. His ex absolutely refuses to share
>the driving at all.
>(She has a car) What do the rest of you do about transportation? If
>you have shared
some...@my-dejanews.com
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
> My ex and I had the transportation details written right into our
> separation agreement. It says that I agree to drop the kids off by
> 6 pm on Fridays at his house, and he will return them to my house
> by 6 pm on Sundays, and then it says something like "or any other
> terms on which both parents mutually agree" which was put in there
> so we wouldn't have to bother going back to court to get the actual
> wording changed if we decided that another schedule would work better
> for us.
>
> I don't know whether it would be worth the trouble or not for you to
> go to court to get something like that written into your agreement,
> but it's certainly reasonable of you to ask for it. Most of the couples
> I know whose kids go back and forth do a 50-50 split of the driving,
> unless there's a practical reason that it works out easier not to.
>
> One thing I read somewhere -- but too late to bother changing my own
> agreement -- was that in general, it works out the best if the person
> who is *getting* the kids does the driving, rather than the one who is
> *leaving* the kids. Apparently this makes the adult a little more likely
> to attempt to be on time (I can see that -- you'd be more careful about
> watching the clock if your kids were sitting there with their bags waiting
> for you to come get them than you might be if you were returning them
> after having spent time with them) Also, this way is supposed to be a little
> easier on the kids, or so it said in this article I read, because being
> "picked up" by the NCP feels better to them than being "dropped off" by the
CP.
> (I'm not so sure about that one, but that's what the article claimed.)
I would claim just the opposite. I think it works best if the one who
has the children drives them to the other parent. My ex and I have done
it this way for 5 years now and it is what our divorce agreement says.
The children were quite young when we started
and we thought it would work best if the parent who had the children
brought them to the other so it was that parent leaving the children
(it's easier for an adult to leave) instead of the receiving parent
"taking them away" from the parent they had just been spending time with.
Also it can be quite stressful if you're the parent with the children and
the other parent comes to get them and you have to get them to stop what
they're doing and get their jackets on to go while your ex stands there
impatiently.
As for the 'being on time' angle - let's just say that people who don't
believe in being on time won't be on time whether they're bringing the
children somewhere or picking them up (unless they're picking them up
from a day care situation that charges extra for late pickups). (The
voice of experience speaking again.)
As we've been doing this for so long and the children are quite used
to things, it matters less now who drives so the default is still that
the parent with the children drives them but occasionally we'll do it
the other way if the situation calls for it. Mostly these days the
children don't go directly from one of us to the other but one takes
them to school or Sunday school and the other picks them up.
-----------== Posted via Deja News, The Discussion Network ==----------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Discuss, or Start Your Own
nancy g.
(in reply to my note in this subject)
>> Also, this way is supposed to be a little
>> easier on the kids, or so it said in this article I read,
>> because being "picked up" by the NCP feels better to them
>> than being "dropped off" by the CP. (I'm not so sure about
>> that one, but that's what the article claimed.)
> I would claim just the opposite. I think it works best if the one who
> has the children drives them to the other parent. My ex and I have done
> it this way for 5 years now and it is what our divorce agreement says.
> The children were quite young when we started
> and we thought it would work best if the parent who had the children
> brought them to the other so it was that parent leaving the children
> (it's easier for an adult to leave) instead of the receiving parent
> "taking them away" from the parent they had just been spending time with.
Yeah, I was a bit skeptical of that part of the article (which, by the way,
two different people e-mailed me about, asking where I'd read it, and I regret
to say I haven't been able to find it on the web again. I will keep looking,
though, and will post here if I find it) um ... anyway ...
I think the thing that probably makes the most difference is the age of
the kids. Little ones maybe would do better being dropped off, and older
ones being picked up. But so much depends on the individual circumstances
that you really can't generalize.
> Also it can be quite stressful if you're the parent with the children and
> the other parent comes to get them and you have to get them to stop what
> they're doing and get their jackets on to go while your ex stands there
> impatiently.
Well, that's another thing that works both ways. On Fridays, my younger one
has *just* enough time to get home from school and go out and get involved in
playing with her friends, and then I have to drag her off the playground and
into the car. She typically fusses and sometimes even cries half the way
to Dad's ... not necessarily because she doesn't want to see him, but simply
because it's hard for her to leave her friends. And yes, I've tried making
her stay in the house for that half hour or 45 minutes, but then I have to put
up with her crankiness while I'm rushing around trying to get their stuff packed!
(Unfortunately, while both of my girls are very good and very flexible and have
put up with all these changes in their life remarkably well, it has left the
8-year-old with a bit of a tendency toward whining and temper tantrums when
she's frustrated. We're working on it. And, according to reports from my family,
she comes by this honestly: My mother laughs when she's like this, because
apparently I was the same way at that age!)
> As for the 'being on time' angle - let's just say that people who don't
> believe in being on time won't be on time whether they're bringing the
> children somewhere or picking them up (unless they're picking them up
> from a day care situation that charges extra for late pickups). (The
> voice of experience speaking again.)
Oops. Guilty as charged, although I'd change "don't believe in being on time"
to "somehow can't manage to get anywhere on time, no matter how hard they try."
Sigh. It happens. We all have our flaws.
> As we've been doing this for so long and the children are quite used
> to things, it matters less now who drives so the default is still that
> the parent with the children drives them but occasionally we'll do it
> the other way if the situation calls for it. Mostly these days the
> children don't go directly from one of us to the other but one takes
> them to school or Sunday school and the other picks them up.
We did that for a while when my ex was living in the same town as where the
girls went to school. It did make life very pleasant, since we didn't have to
interact face-to-face, but now I find it's helpful to do it in person so we
can discuss those things that we actually *need* to discuss, or pass paperwork
back and forth without depending on the mails or having the kids deliver it.
I guess what all this really means is that *any* way can work well if both
parents are supportive of it, and any way can also NOT work so well if there's
reasons one or both parents don't want it to.
No easy "one size fits all" answers, I guess.
techchik
My DH and BM were never married either. We currently bear the cost
for *all* the transportation (500 miles each way), but we are trying
to get a modification. That or a break in the child support (costs
us about $300 for a weekend visit.) BM thinks it's unfair to ask her
to drive at all for extended visits because DH makes more money than
her. Heck, she's the the one who took the kids and moved.
But I digress <claws are being sheathed>, My point being that you can
still get court orders or work out arrangements in mediaton - whether
or not there was ever a marriage. But I highly suggest getting
something in writing. It prevents any misunderstandings in the
future.
I personally don't care for the meeting halfway anyway - I don't like
the thought of children sitting on the side of the highway. It's so
very difficult to get a message if there's been an accident, flat
tire, etc. I feel more comfortable with the idea of the children
waiting in their home.
I like the idea of the receiving party picking up the kids as well,
that way there are no excuses or refusals ("My car's broken down. If
you want to see your kids, well you'll just have to come get them"
type stuff.)
-TC
Techchik
nu...@nospam.newsguy.com
nancy g.
(snip my description of whiny 8-year-old who really does love her
daddy, but hates to stop playing with her friends when it's time
to go see him)
> But wouldn't it be even worse if you had to drag her off the playground
> while her dad watched?
(giggle) I guess it might ... but to tell you the truth, I was kind of
picturing the situation as me saying to him, "There she is, out there
on the playground ... go get her!" and then *him* being the one that
had to be the Bad Guy for a change. (grin) I know. I'm so CREEPY.
(btw, for those who are trying to visualize this and maybe wondering how
this scene would actually take place -- I live in a townhouse complex, with
the buildings laid out in a circle and a big playground area for all the
kids right in the middle of the circle. It's *perfect* for the kids *and*
for us parents, because we can look out our front windows and watch them!)
> I know in the early days of our separation, I just hated this situation.
> It made me feel like he was thinking critical thoughts about my parenting
> if I couldn't get them ready more quickly.
Sigh. I know what you mean. I make jokes about always being late, but
the fact is, that is about my biggest "character flaw" (yes, I'll admit it!)
and it is one that *always* drove my ex crazy, even when we were married --
even at first, in the days when the marriage still seemed like a good one!
So my goal now that we're apart is not to show him that I can do everything
right, but instead to be able to *LET GO* of some of his constant criticism!
I try now to -- well, not to act as if it's OK that I'm not quite ready when
I should be, because I do understand that I'm not living up to my end of
the bargain, but on the other hand, I look at things like being late a lot more
*realistically* now, and realize that maybe being 5 minutes late but with
two happy kids really *is* a better way to arrive at someplace than the way
we used to have to do it when I was married, which was with tear-stained faces
and hair that was lumpy from being brushed in the car on the way to wherever
it was we were going, because "Daddy was ready" to leave, and "you know how
Daddy gets" when he's kept waiting. Sigh. It's *SO* nice to live in the real
world again, instead of in that former world of impossible expectations and
no compassion.
> Okay, I'll accept your rewording for you. I think the original
> wording applies for my ex because he CAN be on time when he thinks
> it matters (like if he is going to be charged extra for being late
> or if he is going to have to drive the kids to summer camp if they
> miss the bus because he overslept or if it's for a business meeting).
I have to admit that I did (still do!) better for things like that, too.
I think in my case, it makes a difference if I know there is an absolute
and unchanging consequence for lateness (like, for example, if you're
late to a movie, you miss the beginning, because they sure don't hold it
for you) as opposed to the kind of casual "why not come over about seven"
type of invitation between friends. Somehow, it's taken me a while to
catch on to the fact that dropping the kids at Daddy's is more like the
movie start time than the visit to a friend. Sigh.
> He just doesn't believe in being on time when he's bringing the kids to me.
Understood. It's not a *time* issue, it's a *control* issue. My ex does
similar things around other issues, just not around the being-on-time one.
> As for discussion - mostly we do that by email. I don't think we could
> have managed to work out as much of the divorce agreement as we did on
> our own if we didn't have email. If I tell him something (about the kids'
> schedules) it often gets forgotten - at least in email he has a record of
> it to refer back to (and he tends to have his laptop with him for work
> reasons most of the time).
I wish *so* much that my ex would agree to this, but while we were in the
middle of our divorce negotiations, he made a decision that he didn't want
me to be able to communicate with him that way, and he put a filter in his
e-mail that keeps out any mail from my ISP. HE can still send mail to ME,
but I can't reply to it! Of course, this also prohibits his children from
sending him any e-mail (they have sub-accounts of mine, so the headers are
the same) and he's aware of this, but has resisted any requests to change it.
Sigh. Like I was saying about "control" issues, y'know?
Sorry. Didn't mean to turn this into a rant about my ex. Guess you just
hit a couple of buttons with some of your comments.
nancy g
just rambling (so what else is new?)
Merrie
> > easier on the kids, or so it said in this article I read, because being
> > "picked up" by the NCP feels better to them than being "dropped off" by the
> CP.
> > (I'm not so sure about that one, but that's what the article claimed.)
>
> I would claim just the opposite. I think it works best if the one who
> has the children drives them to the other parent. My ex and I have done
> it this way for 5 years now and it is what our divorce agreement says.
> The children were quite young when we started
> and we thought it would work best if the parent who had the children
> brought them to the other so it was that parent leaving the children
> (it's easier for an adult to leave) instead of the receiving parent
> "taking them away" from the parent they had just been spending time with.
>
parent does pick up was better. Our kids had to walk the driveway
distance by themselves so it never would have been the adult that did
the leaving. It always seemed like the kids felt they were going to a
parent rather than leaving a parent.
> Also it can be quite stressful if you're the parent with the children and
> the other parent comes to get them and you have to get them to stop what
> they're doing and get their jackets on to go while your ex stands there
> impatiently.
Our times were preset and the kids were always ready and looking
forward to going. The pick up parent never entered the other parent's
home, but if the pick up parent realized some belonging had been
forgotten then they had the opportunity to send the child back for it.
This is important for those of us that have an other parent that
intentionally forgets things.
>
> As for the 'being on time' angle - let's just say that people who don't
> believe in being on time won't be on time whether they're bringing the
> children somewhere or picking them up (unless they're picking them up
> from a day care situation that charges extra for late pickups). (The
> voice of experience speaking again.)
>
While it's true that the other parent would on occasion be tardy to
pick up the kids, there was always a greater effort to be on time.
There was an antagonistic incentive to be intentionally late if it was
just the parents waiting.
For some of us there is a co-parent that uses hostility to heighten the
interaction of the relationship to the other parent and these
transportation protocols are their best opportunities. Over time we
found which ways worked better at minimizing these problems.
Merrie
some...@my-dejanews.com
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
(in response to me)
> I think the thing that probably makes the most difference is the age of
> the kids. Little ones maybe would do better being dropped off, and older
> ones being picked up. But so much depends on the individual circumstances
> that you really can't generalize.
Yes, I'm sure age matters as well as time since the separation/divorce.
> > Also it can be quite stressful if you're the parent with the children and
> > the other parent comes to get them and you have to get them to stop what
> > they're doing and get their jackets on to go while your ex stands there
> > impatiently.
>
> Well, that's another thing that works both ways. On Fridays, my younger one
> has *just* enough time to get home from school and go out and get involved in
> playing with her friends, and then I have to drag her off the playground and
> into the car. She typically fusses and sometimes even cries half the way
> to Dad's ... not necessarily because she doesn't want to see him, but simply
> because it's hard for her to leave her friends. And yes, I've tried making
> her stay in the house for that half hour or 45 minutes, but then I have to put
> up with her crankiness while I'm rushing around trying to get their stuff
> packed!
But wouldn't it be even worse if you had to drag her off the playground
while her dad watched? I know in the early days of our separation, I
just hated this situation. It made me feel like he was thinking critical
thoughts about my parenting if I couldn't get them ready more quickly.
> > As for the 'being on time' angle - let's just say that people who don't
> > believe in being on time won't be on time whether they're bringing the
> > children somewhere or picking them up (unless they're picking them up
> > from a day care situation that charges extra for late pickups). (The
> > voice of experience speaking again.)
>
> Oops. Guilty as charged, although I'd change "don't believe in being on time"
> to "somehow can't manage to get anywhere on time, no matter how hard they
try."
> Sigh. It happens. We all have our flaws.
Okay, I'll accept your rewording for you. I think the original
wording applies for my ex because he CAN be on time when he thinks
it matters (like if he is going to be charged extra for being late
or if he is going to have to drive the kids to summer camp if they
miss the bus because he overslept or if it's for a business meeting).
He just doesn't believe in being on time when he's bringing the kids to me.
> We did that for a while when my ex was living in the same town as where the
> girls went to school. It did make life very pleasant, since we didn't have to
> interact face-to-face, but now I find it's helpful to do it in person so we
> can discuss those things that we actually *need* to discuss, or pass paperwork
> back and forth without depending on the mails or having the kids deliver it.
Yeah, even though we often don't pass the children directly to each other,
the STUFF has to get back and forth and the children can't take it all.
Sometimes it's just getting our daughter's cello and our son's violin to
the right house for when they next have lessons (lessons are at school).
I duplicate as much as possible so they don't have to take normal clothing
back and forth but I'm not going to rent 2 more instruments or buy a second
winter jacket and boots or buy another complete soccer outfit.
As for discussion - mostly we do that by email. I don't think we could
have managed to work out as much of the divorce agreement as we did on
our own if we didn't have email. If I tell him something (about the kids'
schedules) it often gets forgotten - at least in email he has a record of
it to refer back to (and he tends to have his laptop with him for work
reasons most of the time).
> I guess what all this really means is that *any* way can work well if both
> parents are supportive of it, and any way can also NOT work so well if there's
> reasons one or both parents don't want it to.
>
> No easy "one size fits all" answers, I guess.
Very true.
some...@my-dejanews.com
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
[some snips here]
> I try now to -- well, not to act as if it's OK that I'm not quite ready when
> I should be, because I do understand that I'm not living up to my end of
> the bargain, but on the other hand, I look at things like being late a lot
more
> *realistically* now, and realize that maybe being 5 minutes late but with
> two happy kids really *is* a better way to arrive at someplace than the way
> we used to have to do it when I was married, which was with tear-stained faces
> and hair that was lumpy from being brushed in the car on the way to wherever
> it was we were going, because "Daddy was ready" to leave, and "you know how
> Daddy gets" when he's kept waiting. Sigh. It's *SO* nice to live in the real
> world again, instead of in that former world of impossible expectations and
> no compassion.
I don't mean this as a flame, just a question.
If "Daddy was ready" and the kids weren't, why wasn't Daddy helping to
get them ready? I do remember once pointing out to my ex (when we were
still together) and he was ready to go somewhere and was sitting
around that HE could help get the kids' shoes and socks and jackets on
instead of leaving it all to me.
I should mention that I'm not talking about 5-10 minutes late here.
He is, quite routinely, an hour late. (He lives 10 minutes away.)
We used to be on a schedule where he was bringing them to me at 7pm
on a Saturday or Sunday. Their bedtime was 8. He usually got them to
me by 8. This meant I had NO time to just chat with them and ease into
bedtime. Since I couldn't change this behavior, we shifted the schedule
so they go to school or Sunday school in the mornings and he brings
them there, not directly to me. On those Sundays when
there is no Sunday school, he is still an hour later than whatever time
we pick, but it matters less because we're not running into bedtime. If I
need them to be on time due to other plans, I go get them.
My current SO is an on-time type, like me, and it's great. If either of
us is running late for meeting the other, we call. I really like
reliable in a man! And he can think ahead too. If we've planned to
get together for an event, he is as likely as I to start thinking
about when we should meet, who should drive, and what we need to do
in advance, as I am. So many men I know leave the thinking ahead to
the woman in their lives.
As for email:
> I wish *so* much that my ex would agree to this, but while we were in the
> middle of our divorce negotiations, he made a decision that he didn't want
> me to be able to communicate with him that way, and he put a filter in his
> e-mail that keeps out any mail from my ISP. HE can still send mail to ME,
> but I can't reply to it! Of course, this also prohibits his children from
> sending him any e-mail (they have sub-accounts of mine, so the headers are
> the same) and he's aware of this, but has resisted any requests to change it.
> Sigh. Like I was saying about "control" issues, y'know?
My ex prefers email to my calling him. I prefer email because then it
is somewhere more permanent. When I call him, I'm never quite sure
he's paying attention and will remember the details. (Like where the
kids are on days when he's picking them up and there's been a change.)
I call him if I need to discuss some issue and need his opinion because
then he doesn't need to remember anything and we get along well enough
now - used to be EVERYTHING was email.
> Sorry. Didn't mean to turn this into a rant about my ex. Guess you just
> hit a couple of buttons with some of your comments.
Venting somewhere about the ex makes it easier to get along with him.
I find ranting helps me let the issue go. We actually get along well
as exes. I tell people he makes a fine ex-husband.
nancy g.
(replying to me saying this):
>> maybe being 5 minutes late but with
>> two happy kids really *is* a better way to arrive at someplace than the way
>> we used to have to do it when I was married, which was with tear-stained faces
>> and hair that was lumpy from being brushed in the car on the way to wherever
>> it was we were going, because "Daddy was ready" to leave, and "you know how
>> Daddy gets" when he's kept waiting. Sigh.
> I don't mean this as a flame, just a question.
> If "Daddy was ready" and the kids weren't, why wasn't Daddy helping to
> get them ready?
(snicker) There are *reasons* why this person we're talking about
is now my *EX*, you know!
But this was *always* one of our points of contention. He would stand at
the door with his coat on, jingling his keys, as the rest of us were all
rushing around. Of course, the way I typically did things was, I would
get all the kids all ready to go and only THEN get myself ready (jeez, do
I sound like a martyr, or WHAT? I really wasn't THAT bad, really!) Um ...
anyway, so I would be the last one to get ready, so of course when it was
time to leave, I would be the only one still not dressed ... so of course,
it was All My Fault we were late!
His contribution at this point would usually consist of supervising the
kids to make sure they didn't get dirty again or something while I was busy
Holding Us All Up. Again. As Usual.
Sigh. But that's in the past, thankfully. Ancient history. Over.
> My current SO is an on-time type, like me, and it's great. If either of
> us is running late for meeting the other, we call. I really like
> reliable in a man! And he can think ahead too. If we've planned to
> get together for an event, he is as likely as I to start thinking
> about when we should meet, who should drive, and what we need to do
> in advance, as I am.
I think this ought to be one of the Twenty Questions that EVERYONE has to
answer before they get married. It's right up there with the going-to-bed-early
vs. stay-up-all-night issue.
Luckily, my S.O. tells time on a real flexible basis -- just like I do.
One of the absolute very first times he ever mentioned marriage to me was in
an e-mail where he said something like, "If we ever got married, we'd have to
tell everybody the ceremony is really at ten past the hour." (grin) I think
that may have been the moment that I knew without a doubt that he really *is*
the perfect man for me. (We both belong to the stay-up-all-night camp, too)
>> Sorry. Didn't mean to turn this into a rant about my ex. Guess you just
>> hit a couple of buttons with some of your comments.
> Venting somewhere about the ex makes it easier to get along with him.
> I find ranting helps me let the issue go. We actually get along well
> as exes. I tell people he makes a fine ex-husband.
Hmmm. So I should rant about him *more*, maybe? (Thinking about that one)
Nahhhhh. Life is too dang short. I'd rather just move on.
nancy g.
living life in a forward direction these days
some...@my-dejanews.com
"nancy g." <nan...@tiac.net> wrote:
I wrote this:
> > Venting somewhere about the ex makes it easier to get along with him.
> > I find ranting helps me let the issue go. We actually get along well
> > as exes. I tell people he makes a fine ex-husband.
>
> Hmmm. So I should rant about him *more*, maybe? (Thinking about that one)
>
> Nahhhhh. Life is too dang short. I'd rather just move on.
>
> nancy g.
> living life in a forward direction these days
I didn't mean you should rant more. I generally don't rant much. But when
my ex does something or other that I find particularly annoying, the way
that *I* get over it is to complain to someone about it and then I'm past
it rather than holding it in. This is just what works for me. I can't recall
the last time I was actually angry at him for anything but I do get
exasperated sometimes.
As for our other comments (which I snipped) about you and your SO being
'flexible time tellers' and 'stay up all night types', it should come
us no surprise to you that my ex is both of those and my current SO and
I are neither. Someone once told me (before I married) that night owls
shouldn't marry morning people and I should have listened.
DadSquared
Kim Scheinberg <ik...@panix.com> wrote in article
<71r2vo$7...@panix2.panix.com>...
> I'm sorry about this off topic lecture. it's a huge peeve of mine, like
> people who talk on cellphones for anything other than an emergency when
> I'm in a car with them (same friend used to do this. He doesn't do that
> anymore, either)
>
> Being late when other people are involved is a simple sign of disrespect.
> It's also, btw, a control issue (since you mentioned that in your post).
I
> think more people would stop being late if they had a clearer notion of
> what, exactly, it says about their feelings and respect for someone else
Kim, I understand your position, but I think I understand Nancy's too. A
lot of times, being late isn't a control issue -- it's a LACK of control
issue. The inability to disappoint people by saying "no" to meetings and
trying to fulfill people's wants - that's what causes the schedule to fill
up and "meeting triage" to be put into effect. I know: I've been guilty of
trying to meet everyone's needs and resulted in having to disappoint some.
I don't think it's a lack of respect; rather, I think it's a lack of
wanting to disappoint. There's probably an answer somewhere in saying "no"
at the outset, but that's easy to point out in hindsight. My feeling is, if
someone's late meeting me, there's probably a boatload of other issues
they're trying to address, and I'll wait it out. But that's not everybody's
solution.
Dad^2
Late for lunch!
janelaw
see it on my list. If I am repeating myself, just skip this.
Kim Scheinberg wrote:
>
>snip nancy g's post
>
> This isn't about step-parenting. This is just a comment I can't resist
> making, and I assure you I wouldn't bother if I didn't like you. I had a
> friend who was habitually late. He learned quickly, mind you, that I
> wouldn't be there 15 minutes after he was expected. (If I'm not there and
> haven't called within 15 minutes, there's a good chance I'm dead)
kim,
I am pretty much like you. I am punctual. I can't abide the
idea of keeping another person waiting. When I am kept cooling
my heels, I definitely feel my response to aggression; the
adrenaline starts flowing. I agree that this is definitely a
control issue. It's a control issue on both sides, though.
>
> I pointed out to him, in very simple terms, that his lateness sent a very
> clear message that he didn't consider *my* time valueable. I'll grant you,
> I don't have kids yet. I don't know what it's like to dress three children
> and make sure they've used the bathroom, etc. so I can't appreciate how
> difficult it may have been for you
Over the years I have changed my position somewhat. I have
several close friends who are incapable of arriving anywhere on
time. I think of them as "temporally challenged" rather than
passive-aggressive. Their perception of the amount of time it
takes to get anywhere or do anything is skewed. One friend is
extremely sensitive to the fact that he is keeping others
waiting. His anxiety level is scary. He is 50 years old, hates
to be late, and can never get the time thing right. If you
could see him tearing around in an absolute panic...
I never wait for my late friends either. However, we have
developed coping strategies over the years. If we meet for
dinner, we don't set a specific time, but set a range of an hour
or so. We pick a restaurant with a bar and I bring something
else to do (a book, my husband), have a beer and order
appetizers. If they don't show by the end of the time range,
they know that I will be gone and there are no hard feelings.
Similarly, I never ever agree to go to a time-sensitive event
with a late friend. We take separate cars. Also, I let them
pick me up when they are ready; that way I can occupy myself
with something else instead of sitting and watching the clock as
they spend an incredible (to me) amount of time getting ready.
In nancy's situation I just would not let my kid go out and play
before going to her dad's. It takes my daughter a half hour to
45 minutes to get ready for anything. In nancy's ex's position,
I would reverse the driving schedule. If I had to wait for
someone else, I would rather be spending some extra time with
the kids. That way I would feel like I was actually benefiting
from my ex's tardiness.
>
> But if you can make it for a movie? Or a bus? Or a plane? Well, I'll be
> damned if you can't make it on time for me. It says something about how
> you consider *my* time. The plane won't wait. But I should be expected to?
See, this is precisely what has changed my position somewhat.
My friends often miss their buses, planes and movies. If they
make it on time, it is by driving 90 miles an hour to get
there. I can't live (or drive) under that kind of pressure.
Sure, they are more likely to make it to daycare before the
dollar a minute clock starts, but they end up paying plenty in
late fees.
Since I really love and care about these people, I have had to
choose between bending a little and giving up their friendship.
I admit that not everyone has been worth the wait. The friends
I have kept have shown their respect for my feelings in other
ways than punctuality: talking the problem through, making
sincere effort to arrive on time, revealing their own feelings
of inadequacy and resentment, etc. Once you take away the idea
that the late person isn't intentionally torturing you, the
waiting itself isn't that big a deal. Being late is still a big
problem for me though, so we never get into situations where
they might make me late.
>
> This friend isn't late with me anymore. Hasn't been in years, in fact,
> since I pointed out the message he was sending. And some months after he
> managed to start being on time with me, he managed to do it elsewhere in
> his life
>
> I'm sorry about this off topic lecture. it's a huge peeve of mine, like
> people who talk on cellphones for anything other than an emergency when
> I'm in a car with them (same friend used to do this. He doesn't do that
> anymore, either)
>
> Being late when other people are involved is a simple sign of disrespect.
> It's also, btw, a control issue (since you mentioned that in your post). I
> think more people would stop being late if they had a clearer notion of
> what, exactly, it says about their feelings and respect for someone else
>
> This isn't directed at you, per se, Nancy. (If it were, I'd use email) But
> I think being late for an ex-spouse is one of the more passive-aggressive
> (or maybe not so passive) ways of expressing contempt and creating mroe
> bad feelings than are already there
>
> -k. still feeling badly about this post, but unwilling to abort it
nancy g.
> I didn't mean you should rant more.
(I knew that, really. I was just -- well, kind of anyway -- kidding.
One of those kidding remarks with some truth behind it, you know.)
> As for our other comments (which I snipped) about you and your SO being
> 'flexible time tellers' and 'stay up all night types', it should come
> us no surprise to you that my ex is both of those and my current SO and
> I are neither. Someone once told me (before I married) that night owls
> shouldn't marry morning people and I should have listened.
If only you could *really* know ahead of time which of those things that
"people always say ..." or "everybody knows ..." or "you should never ..."
are really valid indicators of future trouble and which can be ignored.
I know it never would have occurred to me before I married my ex that
I should care about whether or not he was an avid reader, like I am ...
but what I never realized until it was *way* too late was that his lack
of interest in reading translated in to a very general lack of interest
in ... well, kind of in everything going on around him. He's the type of
guy who could share an office with somebody and never even NOTICE what his
office mate had hanging on his bulletin board, you know? I got so tired
of tossing out conversational openings to him and having them hit the ground
with a great big THUD.
And the "stay up late" vs. "get up early" thing *IS* highly important.
It's *so* nice to have company now while I'm watching Ben Stein! I always
say that when I rule the world (grin. That's a family saying -- whenever
anything isn't the *exact* way we would prefer it, we always say "Well,
when *I* rule the world ...") anyway -- when I do (grin) everything is going
to be open from noon until midnight. You know, *SENSIBLE* hours!
Sometimes I wonder, too, about that "birth order" thing. My ex and I are
both the youngest in our respective families, and that is supposedly the
kiss of death for a relationship. I really do know better than to believe
in pop psychology ... but it makes me wonder, sometimes, just the same.
nancy g
whose S.O. is an only child ... hmm ... so does that
mean I'm doing the "frying pan --> fire" thing or what??
nancy g.
> I thought I posted an answer to nancy g yesterday, but I don't
> see it on my list. If I am repeating myself, just skip this.
I hadn't seen this message from you before, Jane, so I'm glad you
did repost it. Thanks very much for saying what I've been trying
to put into words for a couple of days now, but have been having
real trouble doing so.
> Over the years I have changed my position somewhat. I have
> several close friends who are incapable of arriving anywhere on
> time. I think of them as "temporally challenged" rather than
> passive-aggressive. Their perception of the amount of time it
> takes to get anywhere or do anything is skewed. One friend is
> extremely sensitive to the fact that he is keeping others
> waiting. His anxiety level is scary. He is 50 years old, hates
> to be late, and can never get the time thing right. If you
> could see him tearing around in an absolute panic...
I *can* see him -- and very clearly. To see him, I just have to
look in the mirror when I know I absolutely positively MUST leave
the house in TWO MORE MINUTES OR I WILL BE LATE.
And that fits right in with a lot of what was in my still unwritten
reply to Kim -- because what I was having a hard time condensing
into readable length was a lecture on some of the main symptoms of
adult attention deficit disorder -- which I have, btw -- and how one
of the primary symptoms can be an actual *inability* to deal with
time the way most people do. Not an UNWILLINGNESS, but an actual
NOT ABLE TO do it. Many of us adult ADD'ers (and this goes for kids
with ADD too, actually) absolutely *cannot* comprehend how to predict
how long a given action will take, or how long it will take us to drive
from point A to point B ... even if we've done it a hundred times.
And I *understand* that there are plenty of people who simply cannot
comprehend that such a "simple" matter can be hard or impossible for
us to do, especially since we are "so smart" in other parts of our lives.
It's the same as having a learning disability -- you can have some
tremendous problems performing what seems like it should be a "simple"
task, and it has no relation to your intelligence level.
I always have a hard time saying that something I or my kids do is
because of our ADD, because to me it seems like people might think
I'm making excuses for our behavior. That is NOT my intention.
As we like to say, "ADD is an EXPLANATION, not an EXCUSE."
It's only in the last couple of years (I was officially diagnosed with
ADD in 1992) that I've fully come to terms with who I am and what has
made me the way I am ... and I find that "serenity prayer" thing helps
a lot. I have to RECOGNIZE the fact that I am never going to be able
to be the kind of person who's punctual ... and then ACCEPT it.
Even what you so accurately describe as that last-minute panic-stricken
rush is very symptomatic of ADD. Without giving a complete lecture
here, let me just say that there is a neurochemical basis for ADD and
its associated symptoms, and that a "panic" such as described actually
induces a flood of brain chemicals (adrenaline, mostly) that has the
same effect on the parts of the brain affected by ADD as do the medications
commonly used to control the symptoms. By waiting until the last minute,
even though it is done completely unconsciously, the ADD person actually
is "self-medicating" by creating the proper brain chemistry so that they
are capable of deciding, prioritizing, and taking action ... in other words,
so they can tell what needs to be done and then do it, the same way those
who are *not* ADD'ers can do with no trouble at all, every minute, every day.
> I never wait for my late friends either. However, we have
> developed coping strategies over the years. If we meet for
> dinner, we don't set a specific time, but set a range of an hour
> or so. We pick a restaurant with a bar and I bring something
> else to do (a book, my husband), have a beer and order
> appetizers. If they don't show by the end of the time range,
> they know that I will be gone and there are no hard feelings.
That's the way my best (non-ADD) friends are with me and with my other
(ADD) friends. Gradually, through the years, I've surrounded myself
with a core group of friends who either are just like me, or they're
people who are accepting of me the way I really am, like you seem to be
of your friends. We work peacefully around our differences and enjoy
each other for our similarities. The less-than-close friends who were
bothered too much by my inability to stick to a clock schedule (and there
are other ADD-ish traits that could be equally annoying to those who
aren't like us, too) have gradually moved out of my life and now have
different circles of friends, where they are as content as I am in mine.
> Similarly, I never ever agree to go to a time-sensitive event
> with a late friend. We take separate cars. Also, I let them
> pick me up when they are ready; that way I can occupy myself
> with something else instead of sitting and watching the clock as
> they spend an incredible (to me) amount of time getting ready.
And it sounds like you make a wonderfully understanding friend to
these people. I'll bet they throw some great "it's an open house ...
come whenever you can" type of parties, too, right?? (grin)
> In nancy's situation I just would not let my kid go out and play
> before going to her dad's. It takes my daughter a half hour to
> 45 minutes to get ready for anything.
Luckily, the end of daylight savings time has solved this particular
dilemma for me! Now she can't play outside until it's time to leave,
because it gets too dark too soon. Hopefully, by the time spring comes,
she will have matured a bit more beyond the temper-tantrum stage (and
she really *is* making big steps toward improvement!) and also will be
more accustomed to this every-other-Friday routine, so maybe we've seen
our *last* ultra-hectic Friday afternoon.
> In nancy's ex's position, I would reverse the driving schedule.
And I think that would make sense, too, for several different small but
practical reasons. I mentioned it once to my ex; he was opposed to the
idea (although I never was clear why he opposed it -- his only reply
was something to the effect of "I'm not going to change my plans just
because you want me to") and I haven't suggested it any further. I try
not to make too many waves where he's concerned.
> If I had to wait for someone else, I would rather be spending
> some extra time with the kids. That way I would feel like I was
> actually benefiting from my ex's tardiness.
I really *do* like your attitude! There have been times when it's worked
out that I'm doing the picking up at Daddy's rather than the dropping off.
I have on those occasions been either on time or *VERY* close to it ...
but when I get there a few minutes late, he has the kids actually sitting
outside his door, sitting there on the porch with their bags. I'd guess
his intent is to make me feel more guilty or something. He'd *never* understand
that all I truly feel when I see that scene is very sad ... for all of them.
>> But if you can make it for a movie? Or a bus? Or a plane? Well, I'll be
>> damned if you can't make it on time for me. It says something about how
>> you consider *my* time. The plane won't wait. But I should be expected to?
> See, this is precisely what has changed my position somewhat.
> My friends often miss their buses, planes and movies.
I do *better* at those kind of things, definitely. Although I'm certainly
not claiming I never miss them ... I still do.
> If they make it on time, it is by driving 90 miles an hour
> to get there. I can't live (or drive) under that kind of pressure.
(guilty grin) OK, but I don't go 90! But on the other hand, yes,
I *do* readily admit to driving faster than the speed limit much
of the time. (Although not TOO much faster, and ALWAYS safely.)
> Since I really love and care about these people, I have had to
> choose between bending a little and giving up their friendship.
> I admit that not everyone has been worth the wait.
I can only think of one person that I had a real potential
friendship with who eventually stopped making the attempt to
sustain that friendship with me because of this issue. Other than
her, most of my "punctual" friends are, well, *casual* friends,
or simply acquaintances. My *real* friends are all what we refer
to as "kindred spirits." And we KNOW that all those punctual types
are sitting there (because they got there in time to get seats!)
and talking about our lack of respect or need for control ...
we figure, so let them talk. That's NOT how we feel, but we can
only explain ourselves so many times and in so many ways. Sometimes
it's easier just to let people think whatever they want to.
> The friends I have kept have shown their respect for my feelings
> in other ways than punctuality: talking the problem through,
> making sincere effort to arrive on time, revealing their own feelings
> of inadequacy and resentment, etc.
That's what I try to do, always. I'm glad to hear that one of you
"punctual" types has truly understood how we "tardy" types really do
try to compensate for our shortcomings.
> Once you take away the idea
> that the late person isn't intentionally torturing you, the
> waiting itself isn't that big a deal.
That's the part I've always had the biggest trouble explaining.
I can only think of so many ways to say "But this has NOTHING to DO
with YOU!" and still some people would be convinced that it was either
a "control" or a "lack of respect" issue aimed directly at THEM.
When I get mad enough, I have been known to let loose on people
who tell me I'm just not trying hard enough: I tell them (usually
through a flood of tears, which I'm never sure if it helps or hurts
my cause) that they have absolutely NO way in the WORLD of knowing
how very hard I *am* trying ... the only thing they can know for sure
is that I am not SUCCEEDING. And I tell them, maybe they don't give
me enough credit for realizing it, but I am VERY much aware of my
complete lack of success, and do NOT need to be reminded of it again.
Sigh.
And failing that, there's always the old "Tell them you want them
there 15 minutes before you really do" trick. That one works so well
(and the reasons why it works aren't important, as far as I'm concerned)
that I am now in the habit of writing down all appointments on my
calendar 30 minutes before they actually are. That's why I'm able to
get to things on time as often as I do.
>> I'm sorry about this off topic lecture. it's a huge peeve of mine (snip)
I never was bothered by the "lecture." There was a time I would have been,
but as I think I've said in connection with some other topics here, going
through something as life-changing as a divorce helps you put all the other
bits and pieces of your life into real perspective. I am *not* able to be
what all other people think I should be, and I can either beat myself up
over that fact, or simply make the best of what I *can* do. I've chosen
the latter and I can't believe how much happier I got once I stopped feeling
like I'd done something wrong, somehow, just by not being someone who's not me.
>> Being late when other people are involved is
>> a simple sign of disrespect.
(snip)
>> It's also, btw, a control issue
(snip)
>> I think being late for an ex-spouse is one of the more
>> passive-aggressive (or maybe not so passive) ways
>> of expressing contempt
(snip)
All of the above can be true.
All of the above are often or always true for some people.
All of the above are occasionally true for me.
But for me, and for a LOT of people just like me,
all of the above are FAR from true, MOST of the time.
Sigh. Letting absolutely everything that's in your head come
straight out your mouth (or through your keyboard) can be another
symptom of ADD, btw. Who would've guessed?
nancy g
Oh, and one more thing, for anyone who's interested:
The October 6 issue of Family Circle magazine had an
*EXCELLENT* article about adult ADD and what it feels
like learning to live with it. One of the best I've read.