Separation/Visitation question
Michael R. Martin
problem (3 DUI's and continues to drink), his son (who he has custody of)
refuses to speak to me, his family just acts like I don't exist, husband is
very controlling....obviously a lot of reasons.
My question is this -- how can I limit visitation between my husband and our
almost 14 month old daughter? I certainly have no objection to him seeing
her, but he still drinks. So, if she's visiting and it's time to bring her
home, he'll already have two, possibly three or four beers by 6 p.m. on
Sunday. He starts drinking around 11 a.m. or noon, and drinks about a beer
an hour. Obviously I don't want my daughter getting into the car with him.
I could bring her over and pick her up, which would probably be the best
solution, but then I'm doing the driving and rearranging my life for him.
Has anyone else been in this situation? Does anyone have any suggestions?
Our lease here is up in August, so I have some time to plan and think, but
was hoping someone else might have been in my shoes and might offer
suggestions.
Thanks for your help.
Cindy
sha...@mvp.net
hu...@mindless.com
http://mvp.net/~shadow/
St.John, Missouri 63114
A member of the "HTML Writers Guild"
A day's not complete without getting into a little "trouble".
Vicki Robinson
>I could bring her over and pick her up, which would probably be the best
>solution, but then I'm doing the driving and rearranging my life for him.
No, you're rearranging your life for your child. Whatever you need to
do to keep her safe is what you do, and inconvenience has to be a
secondary consideration.
You're in a very tough spot; my sympathies to you and your daughter.
Vicki
--
Mediation and Alternative Dispute Resolution Resources:
http://www.rit.edu/~vjrnts/mediation/mediation.html
The alt.folklore.urban FAQ and archive can be found at
http://www.urbanlegends.com.
janelaw
>
> I am considering leaving my husband of almost 9 years due to his drinking
> problem (3 DUI's and continues to drink), his son (who he has custody of)
> refuses to speak to me, his family just acts like I don't exist, husband is
> very controlling....obviously a lot of reasons.
> My question is this -- how can I limit visitation between my husband and our
> almost 14 month old daughter? I certainly have no objection to him seeing
> her, but he still drinks. So, if she's visiting and it's time to bring her
> home, he'll already have two, possibly three or four beers by 6 p.m. on
> Sunday. He starts drinking around 11 a.m. or noon, and drinks about a beer
> an hour. Obviously I don't want my daughter getting into the car with him.
> solution, but then I'm doing the driving and rearranging my life for him.
> Our lease here is up in August, so I have some time to plan and think, but
> was hoping someone else might have been in my shoes and might offer
> suggestions.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Cindy
>
You can do several things. The easiest thing might be to do all
the driving after a certain time of day: each of you drive the
child to your own home. That way you are always driving in the
evening when he has been drinking. If any of the OUI's are
recent, a provision against his driving with the child in
custody/visitation schedule sounds reasonable. If you believe
that S2BX drinks too much to care for the child, raise the issue
with the court. They can order alcohol evaluation. One OUI
might be taken as an error in judgment, three seems to indicate
a problem.
From what you said, though, it sounds like S2BX is keeping his
blood alcohol level below the legal limit for driving.
Breathalyzers measure the level of alcohol in your blood, not
the amount of alcohol you have had drink. I don't know how big
he is or what kind of beer he drinks, but his body most likely
metabolizes his one beer per hour. Just on the issue of
driving, I don't see that you have any more to worry about after
6 beers in 6 hours than you do after 1 beer in 1 hour. His
blood alcohol level should be the same. Of course, those three
OUI's would bother me a lot.
Good luck.
Wakanyeja Makah
wrote:
> but then I'm doing the driving and rearranging my life for him.
>
>Cindy
>
You wouldn't be re-arranging your *life* for him. You would be
re-arranging driving arrangements for your daughter's safety. There is a
difference.
For what it is worth, after his already having 3 OUI's I would
drive your daughter.
W. Makah
lilblakdog
<0CON1.457$B32.7...@typhoon.stlnet.com>...
> My question is this -- how can I limit visitation between my husband and
our
> almost 14 month old daughter? I certainly have no objection to him
seeing
> her, but he still drinks.
Forgive me, but wouldn't the courts have something to say about this?
Would they really hand over unsupervised visitations to a man who has
proven that he is unable to be trusted with someone else's life in his
hands?
Wouldn't they offer some sort of objective middle-man to pick up the child
and deliver her for a supervised visit with her father until such time that
he can be found responsible?
lil (who is still *horribly* naive on this whole subject)
SoccerStepMom
>
> I am considering leaving my husband of almost 9 years due to his drinking
> problem (3 DUI's and continues to drink), his son (who he has custody of)
> refuses to speak to me, his family just acts like I don't exist, husband is
> very controlling....obviously a lot of reasons.
> almost 14 month old daughter? I certainly have no objection to him seeing
> home, he'll already have two, possibly three or four beers by 6 p.m. on
> Sunday. He starts drinking around 11 a.m. or noon, and drinks about a beer
> an hour. Obviously I don't want my daughter getting into the car with him.
> I could bring her over and pick her up, which would probably be the best
Oh, Cindy, you haven't even begun to describe all the rearranging of
your life that you will do if you enter into a joint parenting
arrangement with a former spouse. Assuming he plays an active role in
your daughter's life (which is best for her), you will have to always
live near him, coordinate vacations and clothes and toys and doctor
bills, and countless other details. Your schedule will depend on his
cooperation (if he refuses visitation and you have a date, poof, you're
on the spot).
I guess my point is, since you decided after 7 years of marriage to make
a baby with this guy, you are stuck in a relationship with him for the
next 16+ years. If there is any way to work things out, you will find
it much easier to do this married than divorced.
I'm sure you already know this, I just was struck by the comment about
"rearranging my life". God luck to you, SSM
PS, I assume you wouldn't post a message like this from a mailbox you
share with your husband....even though it carries his name. I was going
to mail, not post this, but I could not be sure that it would not cause
you trouble.
> Has anyone else been in this situation? Does anyone have any suggestions?
> Our lease here is up in August, so I have some time to plan and think, but
> was hoping someone else might have been in my shoes and might offer
> suggestions.
> Thanks for your help.
>
> Cindy
John W. Herndon
But if that's no longer an option, my few cents of advice are..
First.. prepare to flip your life inside out and backwards for your children.
Second.. when you go to mediation let them know that he's a habitual drinker.
They may recommend that a "no drinking within 12 hours of visitation" be put
in the custody order. They may also tell him to seek some counseling.
Definitely be prepared to do ALL the driving.
In California, being habitually drunk around a minor is considered child
abuse/neglect (PC 273g -- misdemeanor). Although the police are not going to
kick down the door because of it. In Missouri, it may be an entirely
different story.. seek legal advice. (Also you might visit
http://www.divorcenet.com for more information. My wife seems to like that
web site's message board.)
Third.. get a good attorney (that you can afford) and never assume the job is
being done correctly.. double (triple!) check everything before you sign it.
Unfortunately for us the "other" attorney made a couple slight verbage changes
which my wife's lousy attorney did let us know about.
Last.. be careful when using your husband's Internet account.
Wishing you a happier life,
John
Official Step-Dad of 4 CrAzY kids!
Calif Penal Code
273g. Any person who in the presence of any child indulges in any
degrading, lewd, immoral or vicious habits or practices, or who is
habitually drunk in the presence of any child in his care, custody or
control, is guilty of a misdemeanor.
On Tue, 22 Sep 1998 09:37:17 -0500, "Michael R. Martin" <sha...@mvp.net>
wrote:
>I am considering leaving my husband of almost 9 years due to his drinking
>problem (3 DUI's and continues to drink), his son (who he has custody of)
>refuses to speak to me, his family just acts like I don't exist, husband is
>very controlling....obviously a lot of reasons.
>My question is this -- how can I limit visitation between my husband and our
>almost 14 month old daughter? I certainly have no objection to him seeing
>her, but he still drinks. So, if she's visiting and it's time to bring her
>home, he'll already have two, possibly three or four beers by 6 p.m. on
>Sunday. He starts drinking around 11 a.m. or noon, and drinks about a beer
>an hour. Obviously I don't want my daughter getting into the car with him.
>I could bring her over and pick her up, which would probably be the best
>solution, but then I'm doing the driving and rearranging my life for him.
Yvette Campbell
I have read all of the other replies to your post, with plenty of good
advice. I just wonder though - what is at the root of your husband's
drinking?
Most alcohics or habitual drinkers do so for a reason, to escape something
in their lives that is making them unhappy. They are trying to avoid
responsibility, to escape reality.
Can you identify what this 'reason' is with your husband?
Seems to me that there could be a chance that your marriage could be saved
if you could both direct your energies at the causes, whatever they may be,
rather than at the symptoms.
Think long and hard about separation and divorce - you will only be
exchanging one set of problems for another, life-long set...
My best wishes to you all
Yvette
Australia
Grace F Rohrer
Separation/Visitation q.. by "Yvette Campbell"@bigpon
> advice. I just wonder though - what is at the root of your husband's
> drinking?
>
> Most alcohics or habitual drinkers do so for a reason, to escape something
> in their lives that is making them unhappy. They are trying to avoid
> responsibility, to escape reality.
>
> Can you identify what this 'reason' is with your husband?
Oh...I don't think it's ever quite that simple...
sometimes alcoholics have another underlying mental illness--that
they are self-medicating with the alcohol: anxiety attacks or
depression or bipolar disorder--and alcohol really only makes these
things worse...
sometimes alcoholics got launched from their family of origin
with absolutely inappropriate life-skills--they just can't deal
with the normal ups and downs, and they don't even know how
to learn how to deal...
and sometimes alcoholics latch onto someone who enables them to
carry on a drinking lifestyle, takes care of them, and never really
lets them hit bottom, so that they go get some REAL help for themselves...
It's very hard to change who you are, even if you WANT to--and
chances are the original poster has done everything she could to
dry the guy out. At some point you just have to walk a way and
make a better life and as safe as possible a life for you and your
kids.
Michael R. Martin
>
>sometimes alcoholics got launched from their family of origin with
absolutely inappropriate life-skills--they just can't deal with the normal
ups and downs, and they don't even know how to learn how to deal...
>
I'm not sure which category this falls under, but the reason he drinks is
because he considers it "normal." His father works the night shift and
would come home, watch tv for Heaven only knows how long, and go through a
six pack. He says it's because he likes the taste, and I honestly believe
that for him, because his dad went through a six pack a day, that must be
normal.
He's promised several times that he'd quit, or he'd cut back, or he'd watch
how much he drank, but it's never happened. With the problems his son
causes, it's just no longer important enough for me to stay in this house.
If no one cares about me, I DO and I honestly believe that there just comes
a time when you have to cut your losses and run because it's the best thing
for YOU.
In my case, it's the best thing for me and my daughter because I certainly
don't want her growing up to think that -- a) it's okay to spend all night
in the house with people you don't speak to, b) it's okay to treat other
people like trash, and c) it's okay to go through a six pack a night. My
son will walk in the door from school, say hello and that's the last I'll
hear from him all night. Is this what I want my daughter learning? Of
course not.
Thank you everyone for your suggestions.
Cindy Martin
The Ginger Tabby
>sometimes alcoholics have another underlying mental illness--that
>they are self-medicating with the alcohol: anxiety attacks or
>depression or bipolar disorder--and alcohol really only makes these
>things worse...
I would like to tell you all a story that might make you feel a bit
better. I hope it does anyway.
My father was an alcoholic since I was about five years old. I really
never remembered him any other way except moody, foul smelling,
violent and mentally abusive. I hated him, the hate was so intense it
poisoned me. I even developed an obsessive-complusive disorder about
doorknobs. If I had to touch one of the doorknobs in the house, i had
to wash my hands thoroughly afterwards since he had touched them. I
used tissues, towels, anything to avoid touching the knob directly and
still had to wash my hands. this behaviour stopped immediately after
I moved out and came back upon when I had to move back home as an
adult due to a long term illness.
I moved to England about three years ago to get married. I had as
little contact with my parents as possible for quite some time, my
husband fielding the calls and e-mails for me. When they announced
they were coming to visit, I was in stark terror. My husband was very
supportive and did everything he could to make sure I would survive
the ordeal with my sanity intact.
However, in the time I had been gone, my father had been diagnosed
with parathyroid problems which had evidently been going on for many
years, I'm still not sure what, and he had surgery to have them
removed. He had treatment afterwards with a wonderful doctor and made
a complete recovery.
The man who got off the plane at Gatwick was not the man I grew up
hating. This man was 100 pounds thinner for one thing, and he was
smiling! They spent three weeks here and we had a fabulous time....he
was upbeat, no sign of the overwhelming depression that ruled his
life, didn't seem to be in much pain, drank only the occasional beer
and only with my husband, he was witty and entertaining and
affectionate.
At the end of the visit, when my mother and I had a chance to talk
alone, she told me of all the changes that had taken place over the
year I had been gone. We cried a lot that it had taken so long and so
much heartache to find out what had been behind all the pain and
destructive behaviour. I ended up telling her it was nice to meet the
man she had married. It had always puzzled me why she had married
such an awful man. Of course, he didn't have these problems when she
married him, he was a nice guy. Now I know and what a relief and joy
it is.
I think of all those years of hating him and get angry....why was this
disease not found when I was a child? Thyroid disease runs in the
family and he had so many obvious symptoms, why wasn't he checked?
Twenty-four years of his life and all of ours were wasted, ruined. At
least I have him now though. he nearly died about ten years ago, if
he had, I would never have had the chance to mend fences and repair
the damage of a lifetime of hate. I know not every alcoholic has such
an easy reason, many just simply have problems they can't handle, but
I am forever grateful I got my dad back.
I don't know if this makes any difference to anyone, maybe I am just
taking to the wind, but if you have someone in your life who has
mental or emotional problems, whether it results in alcoholism or not,
maybe a visit to a really good endocrinologist is in order. It
changed my dad, maybe it can change them. Thyroid disease is the most
underdiagnosed illness in the world, with at least half the population
affected in some degree, and blood tests don't always turn it up. Go
to this URL if you suspect and read the list of symptoms (including
depression, cold hands and feet, hair loss or thinning, loss of sex
drive, immune deficiency, weight gain and inability to tolerate
extremes in temperatures), treatment options and a guide to the basal
temperature test, which is much more accurate than the blood tests.
http://www.healthy.net/library/articles/schacter/hypothyr.d.htm
In case you are wondering, after a lifetime of being 'sickly' myself,
then seriously ill for almost the last four from CFS, I was diagnosed
a few months ago with hypothyroidism and adrenal dysfunction. It's
been there, wearing away at my health all this time undiscovered.
Because it has been untreated for so long, I now in the last week
discovered that I have polycystic ovaries and also have to go in for a
test to see if I have diabetes as I have all the symptoms. Being this
ill, I am not the most fun person to be around....my poor husband gets
the sharp end of my temper all the time. At least we KNOW why though,
and I am slowly improving. Someday I might even have a normal life or
at least a pretty good approximation! I don't drink, but I can see
easily how tempting it would be to do something to block out the
misery and pain for a while. I've walked a mile in my father's shoes,
my hatred is totally gone and my scars are healed.
I wish it was this easy for everyone. I'm sorry for the long post,
this is the first time I've been able to share this with someone other
than my husband and mother. I just want to shout it to the world. I
hope it helps someone out there stop their suffering.
From the Heart,
kat
Lady Sundae
: In case you are wondering, after a lifetime of being 'sickly' myself,
: then seriously ill for almost the last four from CFS, I was diagnosed
: a few months ago with hypothyroidism and adrenal dysfunction. It's
: been there, wearing away at my health all this time undiscovered.
: Because it has been untreated for so long, I now in the last week
: discovered that I have polycystic ovaries and also have to go in for a
: test to see if I have diabetes as I have all the symptoms. Being this
: ill, I am not the most fun person to be around....my poor husband gets
: the sharp end of my temper all the time. At least we KNOW why though,
: and I am slowly improving. Someday I might even have a normal life or
: at least a pretty good approximation! I don't drink, but I can see
: easily how tempting it would be to do something to block out the
: misery and pain for a while. I've walked a mile in my father's shoes,
: my hatred is totally gone and my scars are healed.
Kat-
I am sorry that your childhood was miserable. Mine wasn't much
better having suffered at the hands of a paranoid schizophrenic
whose favorite thing in life was to make me miserable. Anyway,
I wanted to touch on this part of your post. I have PCO
(polycystic ovarian disease). There is a newsgroup called
alt.support.pco that can really be helpful. Also, a new drug
regimen has been started. I am not diabetic but all PCO patients
are at risk. I am hyperinsulinemic. In other words, the body
produces way too much insulin. I have started on Rezulin and
the insulin levels are back in the normal range. Make sure that
your doctor checks your fasting C-peptides and glucose as
hyperinsulinemia will not show up under a glucose tolerance test.
Many women with PCO are insulin resistant (hyperinsulinemic).
If I can be of any health help, let me know. I also suffer from
lupus, fibromyalgia, infertility, and so on and so on. My sister
had Graves disease and has endometriosis.
*hugs* to you and I wish you the best,
Louise
Yvette Campbell
I understand your situation better now. I am not so naive as to believe
that it would be a simple matter for your husband to change his drinking
ways - I just wondered if there was a chance for you both to mend things. I
apologise if I gave you the impression that you are completely wrong to
leave your marriage.
Of course you should make a new life for yourself if all your efforts to
reform him are futile, and your SS is making life even more unbearable. My
two SS are giving me some hard times at present!
I wish you the very best of luck - you seem very strong.
Yvette (Australia)
Full-time step-mum to Alan (age 18) and Philip (17)
Full-time mum to Sarah (3) and Matthew (2)
Mum to Mark (stillborn) and Gabriel (miscarried)
Husband to Bruce for 10 years.
Merrie
I agree with you that there are cases when you have to just "cut your
losses" and I can't say that it wouldn't be the right thing. However,
do you know what he might agree to with regards to custody about your
daughter? Because of the concerns that you listed as a,b, and c; those
things will still occur at his house during his custody with the only
difference being that your daughter will be there without you. If he
wants any visitaion that is.
Honestly - I don't know what's worse crappy visitation or no
visitation.
I have become very fearful of any advice I may give because I would
just feel awful to be the cause of pain. You've been here for a little
while and know what sorts of problems have been coming up. I don't
think any of us can help you better than someone who can talk directly
to you and help you sort things out and give you some professional
perspective.
I think alcoholism is a terrible thing - mostly for the people around
the alcoholic. My father was an alcoholic, and we muddled through that
as best we could. I can't say any of us knew what we were doing, and I
can't say that my mother ever sought any kind of help for a solution. I
can say that when he was older my father quit drinking and we had a good
relationship. He never apologized for his drinking, although he did
apologize to my half-sister for divorcing her mother. I don't know if
that says any thing more than how oblivious he was about the harm he
caused. In retrospect, I wish my mother had sought help from someone
that had experience with alcoholics and dependents of alcoholics. She
tried once, but was too embarrassed to pursue it.
The only thing I really want to suggest is that you move carefully and
not rashly. It's how I'm trying to post when I post to you. I hope
that a path of action becomes clear for you. Merrie
Merrie
The Ginger Tabby
> Anyway,
>I wanted to touch on this part of your post. I have PCO
>(polycystic ovarian disease). There is a newsgroup called
>alt.support.pco that can really be helpful.
Hi Louise!
Yes, I love that group, so many kind people. thanks for making sure I
knew about it though.
Kat
The Ginger Tabby
>From my heart - thank you.
>
Oh Merrie, you are always so sweet :). *hug*
Kat