Act like a lady!
Vicki Robinson
on a mailing list that I'm part of. We were talking about the different
perceptions of what it meant to "be a lady" among the participants.
Most of the older women on the list (my age, 50's-ish) remembered
"ladylike" behavior as being restrictive and oppressive, aimed at damping
down initiative, assertiveness, creativity and confidence. It meant
white gloves and frills, and the necessity to sit still and not fidget,
not talk back, never be loud, and not to get dirty. If you did any of
these things, you were out of control and should be ashamed of yourself,
probably doomed to not be a lady and therefore somehow beyond the pale.
And we were either ladies or hoydens, there wasn't much in between.
Oddly, the older men on the group all had stories about some special
"lady" that they remembered with great fondness and respect, and these
were women who were not polite sweet little things who behaved
themselves, but intelligent, tough women who brooked no nonsense and
knew who they were and what they wanted. All of these guys insisted
that these women were ladies, and had nothing in common with the
"ladies" that we all remembered being admonished to be.
I've never told my daughters that "a lady" does this or does not do
that; I've tried to teach them behavior that reinforces their dignity
and self-worth, but doesn't leave them unable to act. The definition
of "lady" that I was taught leads to things like purposely getting low
grades in math because boys don't like brainy girls, not aspiring to a
career in the sciences (unless you're teaching or nursing or a lab
tech) because it's not ladylike to be an engineer or a chemist, and
never developing one's potential because it's not ladylike to push
yourself forward or to seek attention by competeing academically and
achieveing at a high level.
Being a lady isn't all it's cracked up to be. There's a position on a
pedastal, and that can be nice, but it's awfully limiting.
Vicki
--
Family and Divorce Mediation Resources
http://xcski.com/~mediator/
Melissa
>The thread about phone calls reminded me of a long discussion conducted
>on a mailing list that I'm part of. We were talking about the different
>perceptions of what it meant to "be a lady" among the participants.
>Most of the older women on the list (my age, 50's-ish) remembered
>"ladylike" behavior as being restrictive and oppressive, aimed at damping
>down initiative, assertiveness, creativity and confidence. It meant
>white gloves and frills, and the necessity to sit still and not fidget,
>not talk back, never be loud, and not to get dirty. If you did any of
>these things, you were out of control and should be ashamed of yourself,
>probably doomed to not be a lady and therefore somehow beyond the pale.
>And we were either ladies or hoydens, there wasn't much in between.
This is probably why both of my grandmother's hated the term lady with a
passion. LOL. I know my Dad's mother in particular very actively diliked the
term, but I never bothered to ask her why.
I've never asked but I'm guessing my grandmother's called boys. :)
> All of these guys insisted
>that these women were ladies, and had nothing in common with the
>"ladies" that we all remembered being admonished to be.
>
That is so cool.
>Being a lady isn't all it's cracked up to be. There's a position on a
>pedastal, and that can be nice, but it's awfully limiting.
And when life is at it's end what does it really matter?
Love,
Melissa
"Being a Grown up is a bitch sometimes."
-V. Robinson
LedMaryn
news:9geita$1md$1...@allhats.xcski.com...
> The thread about phone calls reminded me of a long discussion conducted
> on a mailing list that I'm part of. We were talking about the different
> perceptions of what it meant to "be a lady" among the participants.
Well, I'm from Texas or the South. I have daughters and have raised them to
be ladies.
I was raised that this meant always do your best in everything you do.
Follow your dreams, and a lady can do almost any job a man can do and get
paid for it, but a lady never does that which is acceptable for men. (The
whole 'at a boy' sex thing)
Sit up straight. Nice posture so you won't be a hunch back by the time your
40.
Minding your manners at the table. Putting a napkin in your lap, using the
right utensils for the right foods, chew with your mouth closed, etc.
Ladies don't use vulger language to make a point. Too many words in the
dictionary you could use instead.
Ladies don't, bad girls do.
A lady doesn't have to work as hard for respect. Hoydens (white trash) get
no respect.
A lady can get along with anyone at the country club or demolition derby. A
non lady is lucky to not get kicked out of anything past McDonalds.
A lady says yes sir and no sir, a non lady says yah or nah
(I bombed on this one)
A lady feels just as good in a pair of pants as she does in a dress. (nope
not me hate dresses)
make-up, nails, and dress is always perfect before you leave the door. (bomb
on this one too)
A lady doesn't gossip.
If it walks like a duck, looks like a duck, talks like a duck then it must
be a duck. It doesn't matter if your a swan.
If it walks like a swan, looks like a swan, talks like swan then it must be
a swan. It doesn't matter if your a duck.
Ladies walk as softly as a cat, brods clack their heels when they walk.
No matter how ugly on the outside a woman is, if she is a lady then she will
be one of the prettiest women in the room.
I could go into all the stuff about a lady and marriage, but have found it
to be totally untrue!
Basically the whole 'My Fair Lady thing' or Lucille Balls 'Mame'.
--
Bright Blessings!
Lynda :o)
check out:
http://www.wholelottalove.org
http://www.zeppinhood.net
lilblakdog
news:QQfX6.165136$I5.47...@news1.rdc1.tn.home.com...
> Well, I'm from Texas or the South....
You know, this reminds me of something I read once. It was a book about
real life southern belles, and talked about how for most people the term
"Southern belle" brings out images of garden parties and spoiled Scarlet
O'Hara act-alikes. But the fact was that real Southern belles were hard
working, unbelievably strong women. Women who ran their homes and their
families flawlessly, with an iron hand.
I grew up hearing that "young ladies" don't do this and "young ladies" don't
do that. I think my father should have read this book...he'd find out they
did a lot of things he would never have guessed!
> make-up, nails, and dress is always perfect before you leave the door.
(bomb
> on this one too)
Getting off topic slightly, this reminds me of something *else* I heard
once. Dolly Parton never leaves the house without looking like Dolly
Parton. Even if it's just to go to the store for bread or something--hair,
makeup, nails and clothes. She said that people expect her to look a
certain way and she has a responsibility to be what they expect her to be.
Ten years later I'm still not sure if that's admirable or sad.
lil
http://lilblakdog.tripod.com
---
"It's hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone." --
Blue Rodeo
Tom Pendergast
> Getting off topic slightly, this reminds me of something *else* I heard
> once. Dolly Parton never leaves the house without looking like Dolly
> Parton. Even if it's just to go to the store for bread or something--hair,
> makeup, nails and clothes. She said that people expect her to look a
> certain way and she has a responsibility to be what they expect her to be.
> Ten years later I'm still not sure if that's admirable or sad.
Dolly has done very well in life, at least on the edges exposed
to the public, i.e.: She's a wealthy, successful businesswoman.
As much as we might all like to believe, the opportunity for that
success isn't immediately available to everyone. There are many
paths to get there, but Dolly only got the chance to be Dolly the
businesswoman after years and years of being Dolly the entertainer,
Dolly the celebrity.
I take her quote that you've paraphrased above -exactly- at face
value, and I understand it completely. I guess I'm not sure how
you could even consider it to be "sad". You would deny her the
right/responsibility to be what she -is- because it involves
making herself look attractive?
TP
--
News Item: New York City fast food and convenience store workers are
being laid off in droves as Al Sharpton continues his hunger strike.
Geri and Brian
ever met.)
>Sit up straight. Nice posture so you won't be a hunch back by the time your
>40.
LOL - my mom had us walking with books on our heads, and to this day I rarely
let my back touch the back of a chair. I can thank her for that.
>(I bombed on this one)
>A lady feels just as good in a pair of pants as she does in a dress. (nope
>not me hate dresses) make-up, nails, and dress is always perfect before you
leave the door. (bomb
on this one too)
I remember when I was little, my mom didn't leave the house without her hat and
gloves. (She had fabulous clothes for the time.) She used to dress my sisters
and me in the identical outfits (when my brother came along, he got
coordinating boy-clothes). I prefer wearing a dress to pants (I don't own
any), but don't mind jeans. I never go out without make-up, but I don't think
that has anything to do with being ladylike - just sparing the general public's
eyes.
LOL - I liked your post. One other one I learned (back in the days when people
used to smoke more, though I never smoked) was that a lady never walks with a
cigarette and that a cigarette is to be rolled on the side of the tray to
remove the excess ash - not tapped. From my dad I got the ones about allowing
the gentleman to open the doors and car doors and to walk on the street side of
the side walk. :-)
~~~~~~~~~~
Geri ^ ^
> ' ' <
~~~~~~~~~~
Geri and Brian
>working, unbelievably strong women. Women who ran their homes and their
>families flawlessly, with an iron hand.
Read, "Mothers of Invention" - a book about women during Civil War times. I
got it from my brother for my birthday last year and it is excellent.
jane
>From: Tom Pendergast t...@icubed.com
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 07:51:34 -0400
>
>
>
>lilblakdog wrote:
>
>> Getting off topic slightly, this reminds me of something *else* I heard
>> once. Dolly Parton never leaves the house without looking like Dolly
>> Parton. Even if it's just to go to the store for bread or something--hair,
>> makeup, nails and clothes. She said that people expect her to look a
>> certain way and she has a responsibility to be what they expect her to be.
>
>> Ten years later I'm still not sure if that's admirable or sad.
>
>Dolly has done very well in life, at least on the edges exposed
>to the public, i.e.: She's a wealthy, successful businesswoman.
>As much as we might all like to believe, the opportunity for that
>success isn't immediately available to everyone. There are many
>paths to get there, but Dolly only got the chance to be Dolly the
>businesswoman after years and years of being Dolly the entertainer,
>Dolly the celebrity.
>
>I take her quote that you've paraphrased above -exactly- at face
>value, and I understand it completely. I guess I'm not sure how
>you could even consider it to be "sad". You would deny her the
>right/responsibility to be what she -is- because it involves
>making herself look attractive?
>
>TP
>
Well, she's not really being who she "is" if she's always functioning within
the constraints of her persona. It's sad when people become victims of their
success.
jane
jane
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: Mon, 18 Jun 2001 04:55:12 GMT
>
>
>
>
>Ladies don't, bad girls do.
>
See, this part makes me sad. We ALL do.
jane
Tom Pendergast
You didn't understand a word I said, did you!? It's sad when people
impose "victim" status on others to suit their own beliefs.
TP
Wendy
jane <janel...@aol.com> wrote:
>Well, she's not really being who she "is" if she's always functioning within
>the constraints of her persona. It's sad when people become victims of their
>success.
I saw it as purely being business focussed. It is what she wants, because
she knows that her image is what sells records.
Wendy
Wendy
Geri and Brian <gple...@aol.comicrelief> wrote:
>Read, "Mothers of Invention" - a book about women during Civil War times. I
>got it from my brother for my birthday last year and it is excellent.
Sorry, but can't see Mothers of Invention without thinking of Frank Zappa
Wendy
LedMaryn
news:9glhkr$obs$1...@warwick.hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk...
> Sorry, but can't see Mothers of Invention without thinking of Frank Zappa
>
> Wendy
LOL! Good one!
Didn't think of it until you mentioned it!
Lynda
LedMaryn
news:20010618105006...@ng-cc1.aol.com...
I remember that rule too! Men open doors and walk on the street side? In
this day and age? Rare, very very rare. Usually they look at you
like.'What?' then get in the car or squish you on to the street! Ahh the
days when mommas raised their sons to be gentlemen.....or cowboys! ha ha ha
ha ha
Geri and Brian
I can't relate to the musical taste (though Brian probably could - that is more
his cup of tea), but the book is excellent. I dug it out and actually the
whole title is, "Mothers of Invention: Women of the Slaveholding South in the
American Civil War". The author is Drew Gilpin Faust (a woman). An excerpt
from the cover tells in a nutshell what it is about: "Exploring elite
Confederate women's wartime experiences as wives, mothers, nurses, teachers,
slave managers, authors, readers and survivors, this book chronicles the clash
of the old and the new within a group that was at once the beneficiary and
victim of the social order of the Old South." It is an interesting read.
Geri and Brian
>this day and age? Rare, very very rare. Usually they look at you
>like.'What?' then get in the car or squish you on to the street! Ahh the
>days when mommas raised their sons to be gentlemen.....or cowboys!
LOL - my husband always opens doors, car doors, etc. for me. I don't think it
is a big deal, but it is nice and he likes to do it. Once in the car, I unlock
the door for him so he doesn't have to do it. :-)
Cindy Martin
come to no good end."
She was always sorely disappointed that I could whistle, climb trees, ride
bikes, and do practically everything else better than my brothers (including
supporting myself - and them, half the time - and keeping a job).
Geri and Brian
>come to no good end.
ROFL - I think I may use that as a signature line.
jane
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: 18 Jun 2001 18:33:39 GMT
Oh, I'm not saying she's making a mistake business-wise. I respect her
judgment in this. I don't envy her this though.
jane
jane
>Newsgroups: alt.support.step-parents
>Date: 18 Jun 2001 23:16:48 GMT
Mine does too.
jane
Kim Scheinberg
>
>I remember that rule too! Men open doors and walk on the street side? In
>this day and age? Rare, very very rare. Usually they look at you
>like.'What?' then get in the car or squish you on to the street! Ahh the
>days when mommas raised their sons to be gentlemen.....or cowboys! ha ha ha
My husband does this (opens doors, etc.), but not because I am a lady.
He does it because he is a gentleman
-k.
Wendy
jane <janel...@aol.com> wrote:
>Oh, I'm not saying she's making a mistake business-wise. I respect her
>judgment in this. I don't envy her this though.
It isn't what I'd chose either, but it is her choice.
Wendy
Wendy
LedMaryn <ledm...@zeppinhood.org> wrote:
>I remember that rule too! Men open doors and walk on the street side? In
>this day and age? Rare, very very rare. Usually they look at you
>like.'What?' then get in the car or squish you on to the street! Ahh the
>days when mommas raised their sons to be gentlemen.....or cowboys! ha ha ha
>ha ha
My partner does this and I love it, but then I love everything about him.
*swoon*
OTOH, when other people have done this in the past, it's irritated me
enormously - why do I have to sit waiting in the car when I'm perfectly
capable of opening a door by myself?
Wendy
LedMaryn
news:NIxX6.16815$aV1.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
> Geez, all I got from my mom was "whistling women and cackling hens always
> come to no good end."
ROTFL, I have go to put this one on the board! My girls will love it!
> She was always sorely disappointed that I could whistle, climb trees, ride
> bikes, and do practically everything else better than my brothers
(including
> supporting myself - and them, half the time - and keeping a job).
Woo Hoo! You go girl! No one said a responcible self sufficient woman can't
be a lady! At least not in my family!
jane
>
>
>
>OTOH, when other people have done this in the past, it's irritated me
>enormously - why do I have to sit waiting in the car when I'm perfectly
>capable of opening a door by myself?
>
>Wendy
Good point for clarification. DH opens the car door for me when I get in (and
I do it for people too), but I never wait to get out.
jane
Karla
> Getting off topic slightly, this reminds me of something *else* I heard
> once. Dolly Parton never leaves the house without looking like Dolly
> Parton. Even if it's just to go to the store for bread or something--hair,
> makeup, nails and clothes. She said that people expect her to look a
> certain way and she has a responsibility to be what they expect her to be.
>
> Ten years later I'm still not sure if that's admirable or sad.
I actually find that quite admirable. Jimmy Buffett was once given the
advice that it takes just as long to be an asshole as to be a nice guy
and sign an autograph. The person asking is signing your
paycheck...which are you going to be?
When Dolly Parton is in public, she knows that the people who sign her
paycheck are expecting Dolly Parton. When she's in private, she can be
whomever she pleases. Understanding that and respecting her fans in
that manner is not only responsible but admirable in a day and age when
most celebs act like you should kiss their butts.
--
karla
I never expected there to be a blue light special on enlightenment -
Greg Brown
Karla
OK...it's good to know that I wasn't the only one who thought why would
Frank Zappa have written a book about the Civil War?
I still miss Zappa, the world could use more people like him. *sigh*
Melissa
>step up to open the door for older people (both genders), those with their
>hands
>full, children, etc. The way I was raised, it's just polite to do so.
>
I do this as well. I also open the service doors on the subway for people.
>I wait for DH to open my door (getting in the car, not getting out), pull out
>my
>chair, etc. DH always walks on the street side.
I don't wait for the door to be opened, but I don't complain if anyone does. I
don't let Geoff pull the chair out or push it in because I like to adjust
myself. As far as street side since I am blind in one eye I am more concerned
with him walking on my blind side so I bump into less.
Love,
Melissa
"Being a Grown up is a bitch sometimes."
-V. Robinson
Wendy
>OK...it's good to know that I wasn't the only one who thought why would
>Frank Zappa have written a book about the Civil War?
>
>I still miss Zappa, the world could use more people like him. *sigh*
Absolutely! Musically very talented, witty and provocative lyrics, and
sexy to boot! :)
Wendy
Tom Pendergast
> "LedMaryn" says...
> >I remember that rule too! Men open doors and walk on the street side? In
> >this day and age? Rare, very very rare. Usually they look at you
> >like.'What?' then get in the car or squish you on to the street! Ahh the
> >days when mommas raised their sons to be gentlemen.....or cowboys! ha ha ha
> >ha ha
> This is one of those things I just take for granted living in the South.
> Gentlemen abound. But then again, I hold the door for anyone behind me.
> I will step up to open the door for older people (both genders), those
> with their hands full, children, etc. The way I was raised, it's just
> polite to do so.
> I wait for DH to open my door (getting in the car, not getting out),
> pull out my chair, etc. DH always walks on the street side.
> And I still consider myself a strong, liberated, independent woman.
THANK YOU! Yes, that is possible. There are still some (of us)
gentlemen out here, and for the life of me I can't figure out why
women are threatened by that. We've been raised to treat people
right, and to especially treat women right. And I'm going to keep
doing it as long as I can open that door or walk next to that lady.
lilblakdog
news:3B2DEB46...@icubed.com...
> Dolly has done very well in life, at least on the edges exposed
> to the public,
You won't find argument from me. I'm one of the biggest Dolly Parton fans
there is--I think she's wickedly smart, I think she's very talented, I think
her devotion to her hometown and it's continued existance is admireable to
the point of sainthood, and I can totally relate to her childhood.
> I take her quote that you've paraphrased above -exactly- at face
> value, and I understand it completely. I guess I'm not sure how
> you could even consider it to be "sad".
I understand it completely as well. But if I saw Dolly Parton in the corner
grocery wearing a plaid shirt, jeans, sneakers and having her hair pulled
back in a poney tail, I'd love her all the same...possibly even more. What
I find is sad is (a) her belief that people *need* to see her as the total
package and (b) that there are enough people in the world who think that way
that she's come to believe that.
> You would deny her the
> right/responsibility to be what she -is- because it involves
> making herself look attractive?
I'm not entirely sure where you think I'm "denying" anybody anything.
lil
http://lilblakdog.tripod.com
---
"It's hard when you discover what keeps you going keeps you all alone." --
Blue Rodeo
Beth
Tom Pendergast wrote:
> THANK YOU! Yes, that is possible. There are still some (of us)
> gentlemen out here, and for the life of me I can't figure out why
> women are threatened by that. We've been raised to treat people
> right, and to especially treat women right. And I'm going to keep
> doing it as long as I can open that door or walk next to that lady.
That's how I'm raising my son, and apparently that means I'm sexist and gender
biased :-) Don't you know men and women are supposed to be exactly the same? ;-)
P.S. I think it's great that you're a gentleman.