making things legal (rant for support)
nogoer
figured it was the best place.
My wife and i have been married for about 8 months now. She has a
daughter(7) that lives fulltime with us. Her and her ex were never
married, and never put anything, support, visitation,ect.., into a
legal document.
Lately BD has been taking even more advantage of my wife's good graces
and making his visitation a pain for my wife.
A little background....He gets thursday nights, and every other
weekend. He works till 3 thurs, then picks her up at school (shes home
by 8), and continues to work the sundays he has SD, leaving her with
his girlfriend. While both of us have been miffed at him "having to
have" this visitation even though hes not visiting, we havnt said
anything. Now this past thurs, SD had spring break, BD covered at his
job and got upset that he will have to go out of his way to get SD,
and wasnt going to be able to sleep before his visit and picking her
up.SD has care with my wifes mother and BD wont go near my wifes
family so she always has to make special arrangement for him to get
SD.
His lazy attitude, faliure to be flexible and all the other crap he
does set my wife off. She (nicely) got off the phone, called his
grandmother to arrange drop off for him and heatedly discussed the
situation with her, then emailed me all pissed off at his lack of
whatever. So finally after this "last straw" ive convinced her of the
need to get things legal. To have everything spelled out by CT state
law so everyone knows thier place and acts accordingly.
Shes always, always going out of her way to make sure he has his
visits, never asks him for anything. We never reschedule his weekends,
ask for more than his 400 a month support, or anything. My wife had
also mentinoed to BD about cancelling the hursday thing because, its
becoming an ever increasing burden on everyone, but he refuses. SD is
having trouble keeping up at school, they always argue, ect...
Now i know as a step father i have no rights in this situation, so i
guess thats why im ranting. My wife recognizes my "true" posisition in
that i act more like a father, and do whatever i can to support her,
and always put SD's interests first, but in the end i cant do anything
about making it legal. I just ahve to deal with the ill affects of BD
, voice my opinion then forget about it.
So does anyone have any advice for a guy in my situation? All the info
online i find is gearded towards divorcing couples. They were never
married and just have a verbal agreement, now that agreement is making
my, my wifes, and jessicas life more and more difficult. BD's lazy bad
attitude has both of us waiting for the day when she realizes what an
a** he is and tells him so. She already gets upset when he refuses to
buy her anything during a visit, or yells at her for making a
scene(shes 7 , come on!), or other wise being a child.
I guess i really didnt know what i was trying to get at, hence the
length of this post! Im just frustrated that this thing is getting so
drawn out, and that BD is going to make things worse the second he
hears the word court, even if its just to put the vebal aggerement
they have into writing! With us being married now, and getting ready
to have a child of our own, there is a great need to have the
legalities of this taken care of.
Am i wrong with any of this??
Thanks
Vicki Robinson
>I guess i really didnt know what i was trying to get at, hence the
>length of this post! Im just frustrated that this thing is getting so
>drawn out, and that BD is going to make things worse the second he
>hears the word court, even if its just to put the vebal aggerement
>they have into writing! With us being married now, and getting ready
>to have a child of our own, there is a great need to have the
>legalities of this taken care of.
>
>Am i wrong with any of this??
Nope. But let me suggest a family mediator instead of a lawyer. That
way biodad and biomom sit down with the mediator (who knows the law)
and hash out what works best for them and for their child (and of
course your wife will have your interests in mind as well). They
prepare a memorandum of understanding which goes to lawyers for review
and then to the court. No adversarial lawyers maneuvering for
advantage, just the people who are involved and a specialist in
conflict resolution to guide them. Mediators are in the yellow pages,
and they're a lot cheaper than lawyers, too.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
_calinda_
> Now i know as a step father i have no rights in this situation, so
i
> guess thats why im ranting. My wife recognizes my "true"
posisition in
> that i act more like a father,
Your true position is as a loving step father. She has a father and
it's not up to you to usurp his position.
>and do whatever i can to support her,
That's wonderful.
> and always put SD's interests first, but in the end i cant do
anything
> about making it legal. I just ahve to deal with the ill affects of
BD
> , voice my opinion then forget about it.
I hope you aren't voicing your opinion of the BD in front of the
child. She's far to young to be able to separate herself from her
parent. When you bad mouth her parent, you might as well be telling
her how bad she is.
> So does anyone have any advice for a guy in my situation? All the
info
> online i find is gearded towards divorcing couples. They were
never
> married and just have a verbal agreement, now that agreement is
making
> my, my wifes, and jessicas life more and more difficult. BD's lazy
bad
> attitude has both of us waiting for the day when she realizes what
an
> a** he is and tells him so.
I hope you're not seriously hoping your SD tells her father what an
asshole he is. Is this what you're saying? How very sad for your
SD.
>She already gets upset when he refuses to
> buy her anything during a visit,
OH.. The *horrors*. That poor, poor child. Not having something
bought on a 'visit', how sad. (NOT!)
>or yells at her for making a
> scene(shes 7 , come on!), or other wise being a child.
Expecting something new or to not be corrected when she's making a
scene or other misbehaviors is NOT what is otherwise 'being a
child'. It's being a spoiled brat. There are far too many spoiled
brats in this world.
Now, I grant you that yelling at a child isn't very productive as
far as correcting a misdeed, but to let it go and simply say 'she's
just being a child' isn't going to help her as she grows older,
either.
And right here I want to state I find the term *Visit* in regards to
any parenting time Offensive. Sure, it's the term used in court
cases, etc, but once you get past the fact that this man should NOT
be relegated to "Visitor" in his daughters life you may start
thinking somewhat differently.
You might come to understand that it's not in her best interest to
have something purchased every time she goes to her other home. You
need to change this whole thought process. He *needs* to correct
her when she's making a scene. She's being parented by her BD,
she's not visiting him.
> I guess i really didnt know what i was trying to get at, hence the
> length of this post! Im just frustrated that this thing is getting
so
> drawn out, and that BD is going to make things worse the second he
> hears the word court, even if its just to put the vebal aggerement
> they have into writing! With us being married now, and getting
ready
> to have a child of our own, there is a great need to have the
> legalities of this taken care of.
>
> Am i wrong with any of this??
Getting a parenting agreement worked out between the BM and the BD
certainly a good idea. But I do think you might want to rethink how
you go about it. For your SD's sake, it'd be *much* better to think
of terms as parenting, not visiting. If you call it a visitation
plan, he might resist. Call it a shared parenting plan and things
might look 100% different to him.
Cal~
> Thanks
nogoer
> it's not up to you to usurp his position.
Im certainly not trying to usurp his posisition. I never inferred
that, and you took it out of context and too literal as you did with
many of my statements. I more intended that my, true posistion, of my
opinion counting more with my wife then legally its supposed to, if
that makes sense
> I hope you aren't voicing your opinion of the BD in front of the
> child. She's far to young to be able to separate herself from her
> parent. When you bad mouth her parent, you might as well be telling
> her how bad she is.
Once again out of context. I wasnt stating my opinions were about BD,
i was stating about my opinions were of parenting SD.
> I hope you're not seriously hoping your SD tells her father what an
> asshole he is. Is this what you're saying? How very sad for your SD.
>
> OH.. The *horrors*. That poor, poor child. Not having something
> bought on a 'visit', how sad. (NOT!)
She already makes statements about the way he is and how she doesnt
like how his attitude affects mom(my wife). I would have had to write
a book to give enough background on exactly how he is and exactly
where many of my statements came from. When BD takes SD out to a store
specifically to go shopping with intent on buying something for SD
then flat out refuses anything she asks for makes him a plain ass in
my opinion.
Your right, SD certainly should not get a new toy just because shes
out in a store. However he refuses to spend money on anything other
than occasional clothing for her. She has never come home with a new
toy after her "shared parenting". Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house. What i infer
about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
costs involved with raising her. Also that any money he spends on top
of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
shes around him.
Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
asshole.
> Expecting something new or to not be corrected when she's making a
> scene or other misbehaviors is NOT what is otherwise 'being a
> child'. It's being a spoiled brat. There are far too many spoiled
> brats in this world.
>
> Now, I grant you that yelling at a child isn't very productive as
> far as correcting a misdeed, but to let it go and simply say 'she's
> just being a child' isn't going to help her as she grows older,
> either.
Ok i guess i didnt get anywhere near what i was thinking on this one.
When SD acts like a normal 7yr old in a place or ways BD doesnt
approve of he gets stern. When he gets too stern and SD gets
upset(making a scene) at his mean attitude, he gets angry and yells at
her.
Kids will be kids, youve got to let them be 7. Correct them when there
wrong and support them when they are right. His whole concept of
parenting seems to be skewed in a way that isnt productive to him or
SD. He has often called my wife during one of his "shared parenting"
thursdays looking for a miracle solution to her misbehavior that was
solely provoked by him.
> And right here I want to state I find the term *Visit* in regards to
> any parenting time Offensive. Sure, it's the term used in court
> cases, etc, but once you get past the fact that this man should NOT
> be relegated to "Visitor" in his daughters life you may start
> thinking somewhat differently.
Right here is where i state your being a bit proposterus. I myself
grew up in a situation similar to this. My "visits" with my father
were not "shared parenting", your taking politically correct to absurd
levels.
He has relegated himeself to his status, thats the whoel reason of my
posting basically. His chosen involvement is never more than he feels
he has to. Ever since day one i have been trying to figure out his
motives. He wants to see her, yet he works almost the entire time. He
acts like shes all he cares about, yet treats SD and my wife with
disrespect and laziness. Not to mention any time my wife has given
extra care to maintain his involvement he just shrugs it off. After 7
years my wife has just left it up to him to pursue more involvement.
After 7 years he hasnt done a thing. He refuses to change what
involvment he has in any way. Eventually SD will have a life with
friends and whatnot, school activities, or side projects will start to
happen on thursdays. I anticipate alot of friction from him, as far
"why couldnt you schedule that activity on another day?" kind of
thing. I also fell that weekday VISITS during the school year are
counter productive. Especially this year because jessica is a half a
year behind the rest of the class. He will not budge on his time, even
if it will be in SD's best interests. The plain fact is if doesnt put
him out then he wnats to see her or be involved, if it does he could
care less that he has a child.
Cal i bet this will piss you off....SD calls me dad. Sorry i didnt
mean to be argumentative. She came to my wife one day and asked if it
was ok to call me dad. We both agreed that if thats what she wanted
then fine, i didnt have a problem with it. For the next month or so SD
never said anyting. Then all a sudden, everytime she wanted my
attention it was dad, can you come here. We both explained to her that
i wasnt her father, she already ahd one. Multiple times shes expressed
she understands the difference.
Sorta have to wonder why she would choose to put her step father on
the same level as her BD. I feel its because i love her , she loves
me, and i treat her like she feels a father should. She calls BD dad
only because she knows he her true father. Im sure the love thing is
there too, but its hard to tell sometimes from the way BD acts.
> Getting a parenting agreement worked out between the BM and the BD
> certainly a good idea. But I do think you might want to rethink how
> you go about it. For your SD's sake, it'd be *much* better to think
> of terms as parenting, not visiting. If you call it a visitation
> plan, he might resist. Call it a shared parenting plan and things
> might look 100% different to him.
> Cal~
>
> > Thanks
This was the crux of my entire post. Some was venting, some was
background, but none was enough for you to be as judgemental as you
were. I didnt post looking for a parent figure to tell me how it is. I
posted for advice and support. If anything i said wasnt to your liking
then you need not reply. However i do appreciate constructive
criticism, but that was rare in your words.
I was really looking for advice as to wether we should be treating the
custody thing different because there was never a divorce involved.
Through BD's actions hes proven all he really wants are "visits". My
wife doesnt consider him as a necessary person for making life
decisions about SD. I trust her on that since shes known BD alot
longer than i have. Hes never once voiced his opionon aboput wanting
more parenting rights. Hes content to not have any repsonsebility for
SD. Basiclally all the good from having a child, and none of the bad.
Cal, if you think he should be a "shared parent" then you should also
feel he should have shared financial responsebility? He doesnt, he
pays far less than his fair percentage, and always sticks us with more
than our fair shhare of SD's medical bills. Not to mention never gives
us checks on time, and uses our share of bill payments to pad his
acocunt and pay only a small part of the bills each time. We are far
form being reliant on his support, due mostly to my income, my wife
makes less than 40% of what he does.
I dont mean to make this whole thing about the financial sidde, but it
shows a pattern of minimal effort in all parts of his side of raising
SD.
Melissa
>toy after her "shared parenting". Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
>her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house.
That's pretty common actually. BD needs stuff for SD to play with, wear and
use at his house.
>What i infer
>about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
>costs involved with raising her
No it's not, but he has costs beyond that 400 a month in raising her as well.
>Also that any money he spends on top
>of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
>shes around him.
>
Well of course. He bought it didn't he?
>
>Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
>house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
>have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
>asshole.
So is not having the stuff ready to go. It also explains why he's so obsesive
about stuff. Rebecca want to jump in here?
Love,
Melissa
The Watsons
"nogoer" <nog...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:54f105d0.0404...@posting.google.com...
> Once again out of context. I wasnt stating my opinions were about BD,
> i was stating about my opinions were of parenting SD.
do you see bruise marks or ribs?
> She already makes statements about the way he is and how she doesnt
> like how his attitude affects mom(my wife).
she's seven? where's she getting the information about how his attitude
affects her mom?
> I would have had to write
> a book to give enough background on exactly how he is and exactly
> where many of my statements came from. When BD takes SD out to a store
> specifically to go shopping with intent on buying something for SD
> then flat out refuses anything she asks for makes him a plain ass in
> my opinion.
depends on what she's asking for....you're jumping to a negative opinion
based on one side of the story...and from the other end of BTDT, that's not
helping matters any..
> Your right, SD certainly should not get a new toy just because shes
> out in a store. However he refuses to spend money on anything other
> than occasional clothing for her. She has never come home with a new
> toy after her "shared parenting".
and? this is traumatic or inconvienient exactly how again?
>Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
> her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house. What i infer
> about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
> costs involved with raising her. Also that any money he spends on top
> of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
> shes around him.
very Good...:D he buys it for use at his place, you bet it stays at his
place.....that's Normal, happens all the time; it's actually an oddity when
things flow back and forth between houses...
> Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
> house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
> have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
> asshole.
how would you feel if he'd sent her back with dirty laundry? you guys get
two weeks, he gets a weekend...
> Ok i guess i didnt get anywhere near what i was thinking on this one.
> When SD acts like a normal 7yr old in a place or ways BD doesnt
> approve of he gets stern. When he gets too stern and SD gets
> upset(making a scene) at his mean attitude, he gets angry and yells at
> her.
well, at some point in time he'll eventually learn what battles to pick and
what parenting style works best in their relationship-put your nose on your
face...
> Kids will be kids, youve got to let them be 7. Correct them when there
> wrong and support them when they are right. His whole concept of
> parenting seems to be skewed in a way that isnt productive to him or
> SD. He has often called my wife during one of his "shared parenting"
> thursdays looking for a miracle solution to her misbehavior that was
> solely provoked by him.
he's called her, asking for advice or suggestions on parenting Their child
and you're complaining? kudos to him, and i'm surprised at you....i don't
know how many people here would've appreciated a phone call from the other
parent going "all right, i'm confused, can i ask a question?", and there're
some people here that would've loved an answer...
> He has relegated himeself to his status, thats the whoel reason of my
> posting basically. His chosen involvement is never more than he feels
> he has to. Ever since day one i have been trying to figure out his
> motives. He wants to see her, yet he works almost the entire time.
when we first started getting parenting time with my SD, my husband worked
for intel, and he had to work from 2230 to 0730, fri-sun....as far as intel
was concerned, he had plenty of time to go get his daughter, bring her back,
spend time with her and still work, so they refused to change his shift to
one that would give him weekends off, even alternate weekends...did we hear
the same complaint from the other direction? you bet, but that child support
check usually took care of it...
>He
> acts like shes all he cares about, yet treats SD and my wife with
> disrespect and laziness.
in your opinion; if your wife feels she's being disrespected, she's a big
girl-she can speak up and say "wow, i feel that was really rude and i didn't
appreciate that"....
>Not to mention any time my wife has given
> extra care to maintain his involvement he just shrugs it off. After 7
> years my wife has just left it up to him to pursue more involvement.
> After 7 years he hasnt done a thing. He refuses to change what
> involvment he has in any way.
does he get holidays and summer vacation time?
> Eventually SD will have a life with
> friends and whatnot, school activities, or side projects will start to
> happen on thursdays. I anticipate alot of friction from him, as far
> "why couldnt you schedule that activity on another day?" kind of
> thing.
friction, sure, if there's no communication with it...but if she goes in
with him to see a mediator and gets a parenting agreement worked out, they
can accomodate that...but you have a few years yet, so stop anticipating the
worst and trying to minimize his role-this Is her father, not some black
sheep uncle in the family that drops in to raise hell every few weeks before
he disappears again...
>I also fell that weekday VISITS during the school year are
> counter productive.
you *visit* uncles and aunt sand grandparents, this is her FATHER....do i
need to open a dictionary and spell it out for you? she is not VISITING her
father, this is His parenting time with her...
>Especially this year because jessica is a half a
> year behind the rest of the class. He will not budge on his time, even
> if it will be in SD's best interests. The plain fact is if doesnt put
> him out then he wnats to see her or be involved, if it does he could
> care less that he has a child.
*snorts* does your wife send progress reports, report cards, notices of
parent-teacher conferences? is there some reason she can't ask him if he
minds doing some homework with her on the midweek or a project on the
weekends?
> Cal i bet this will piss you off....SD calls me dad. Sorry i didnt
> mean to be argumentative. She came to my wife one day and asked if it
> was ok to call me dad. We both agreed that if thats what she wanted
> then fine, i didnt have a problem with it. For the next month or so SD
> never said anyting. Then all a sudden, everytime she wanted my
> attention it was dad, can you come here. We both explained to her that
> i wasnt her father, she already ahd one. Multiple times shes expressed
> she understands the difference.
>
*shrugs* whichever-my SD called me mama goose...:)
> Sorta have to wonder why she would choose to put her step father on
> the same level as her BD. I feel its because i love her , she loves
> me, and i treat her like she feels a father should. She calls BD dad
> only because she knows he her true father. Im sure the love thing is
> there too, but its hard to tell sometimes from the way BD acts.
she puts you on that level because she needs to "label" you and put you in a
category of "father like authority figures"....well, "father like authority
figures" are called some form of dad...not overly significant at 7, more
significant in a few years...
> This was the crux of my entire post. Some was venting, some was
> background, but none was enough for you to be as judgemental as you
> were. I didnt post looking for a parent figure to tell me how it is. I
> posted for advice and support. If anything i said wasnt to your liking
> then you need not reply. However i do appreciate constructive
> criticism, but that was rare in your words.
to be honest, i've been on the flip side of your position, and lemme tell
you, he got an attitude very similar to the one you're presenting here for
Years...and ya know, it didn't exactly make life any easier when it came to
their daughter...so if you want support and advice, pay attention...if
you're looking for the warm 'n fuzzy type stuff, you're likely not gonna get
it from this post, simply because we're trying to expose you to a different
view and show you that perhaps looking at it from this different view may
(and most likely will) make your life, your wife's life, and your SD's life
a Lot easier...
>
> I was really looking for advice as to wether we should be treating the
> custody thing different because there was never a divorce involved.
nope...:) she needs to go to a mediator and get a set parenting schedule
down, and if there isn't a joint custody agreement on the table, then they
can work that out too....
> Through BD's actions hes proven all he really wants are "visits". My
> wife doesnt consider him as a necessary person for making life
> decisions about SD.
gee, wonder if that might have anything to do with it?
>I trust her on that since shes known BD alot
> longer than i have. Hes never once voiced his opionon aboput wanting
> more parenting rights.
that you know of, but you haven't been around since the gitgo, and you're
not the one that deals with him, she is....so you don't know if he's asked
for more and been refused...my husband spent years trying to get more
involvement with his daughter, it took 17 court hearings and Still didn't
work in time...
> Hes content to not have any repsonsebility for
> SD. Basiclally all the good from having a child, and none of the bad.
not if he's buying stuff for use at his place and the child support check
comes on time and he's exercising visitation...i can give you an example of
a person that had to have a wage garnishment for child support, had to be
ordered to either exercise his parenting time or lose his rights...and this
guy picked up their son, exercised their parenting time, and when the son
came back, it was in exactly the same clothes he left in, right down to
dirty diaper because the guy refused to buy diapers or clothes-"well, i sent
you child support, it's your job to buy diapers to send with him"...would
you prefer that extreme?
> Cal, if you think he should be a "shared parent" then you should also
> feel he should have shared financial responsebility? He doesnt, he
> pays far less than his fair percentage, and always sticks us with more
> than our fair shhare of SD's medical bills.
he pays child support, correct? who's insurance is she covered on? are there
any kind of horrendous medical bills (and i'm not talking regular copays or
prescriptions) that he should be responsible for half of? if so, does he
know about them, and does he have the chance to be involved in the medical
care?
>Not to mention never gives
> us checks on time,
they can also set down a set schedule for that when they go in for
mediation...
>and uses our share of bill payments to pad his
> acocunt and pay only a small part of the bills each time.
i'm confused at this...what bill payments are you sending him?
>We are far
> form being reliant on his support, due mostly to my income, my wife
> makes less than 40% of what he does.
there were times when my income was the only income...:)
> I dont mean to make this whole thing about the financial sidde, but it
> shows a pattern of minimal effort in all parts of his side of raising
> SD.
no, a lot of what i see is you trying to find excuses to minimize his role
and his impact on his daughter's life...it doesn't surprise me that he has
as little contact with this kind of attitude as he can possibly
manage-imagine how you would feel if you were in his shoes? if you
genuinenly want to make life easier for everyone all the way around, please
consider what we're saying...most of us here have been down this road plenty
of times, so we're not shooting in the dark or trying to piss you off-this
is coming from experience...
Jess
Lee Adams
Melissa wrote:
>>She has never come home with a new
>>toy after her "shared parenting". Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
>>her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house.
>
>
> That's pretty common actually. BD needs stuff for SD to play with, wear and
> use at his house.
>
>
>>What i infer
>>about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
>>costs involved with raising her
>
>
> No it's not, but he has costs beyond that 400 a month in raising her as well.
Plus, her mother has a financial responsibility towards her. $400 a
month is BD's share of costs. (Disclaimer: I don't know what state
you're in or what the CS tables require at the parents' joint income level.)
>
>
>>Also that any money he spends on top
>>of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
>>shes around him.
>>
>
Well of course. He bought it didn't he?
Or, perhaps, the items are SD's property to be used in his household.
>
>
>>Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
>>house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
>>have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
>>asshole.
Maybe he doesn't have a lot of clothes for her at his house and needs to
have the clothes clean and able to be worn. What does SD wear when she
goes to BD's house? Clothes from her BM's house or clothes provided by
BD? If it's clothes provided by BM, does BD wash them and return them at
the end of the weekend?
Maybe BM could pack an outfit for SD to wear back to your house. That
way, BD's clothes stay at his house and there is no issue as to washing
and returning clothes. Sometimes the situation can be simplified by
keeping the two household's items separate.
Lee
nogoer
> >She has never come home with a new
> >toy after her "shared parenting". Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
> >her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house.
>
> That's pretty common actually. BD needs stuff for SD to play with, wear and
> use at his house.
True, true. Usually though she leaves home with a few bags of clothes,
toys and whatever. If he does buy her stuff, she doesnt like to use
it. We try and limit the shear amount of stuff she wants to bring, but
dont forbid the things she has at home from going back and forth.
Honestly , im playing devils advocate, why hsould my hard earned money
be used to pay for stuff for his child? My wife would be in the poor
house trying to raise jess if al she got was 400 a motnh form him.
Shed be even worse in a few years when those costs start increasing as
she gets into more life activities.
>
> >What i infer
> >about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
> >costs involved with raising her
>
> No it's not, but he has costs beyond that 400 a month in raising her as well.
He does not help pay any extra for things like afterschool activities,
parties she goes to,ect..The only costs above support and ins/med
bills he helps with are for things he spends money on during her time
with him. All other things we bear the full cost of, including all the
toys, food,activities,school programs,educational expenses, ect that
we buy during her time with us. Yes i uderstand those are costs of
having a child living with you :)
>
> >Also that any money he spends on top
> >of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
> >shes around him.
> >
>
> Well of course. He bought it didn't he?
So too did we buy the stuff she brings and we dont get back. Its
granted she will leave home stuff there and leave BD stuff at home.
However we dont get pissy with him over it.
>
> >
> >Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
> >house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
> >have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
> >asshole.
>
> So is not having the stuff ready to go. It also explains why he's so obsesive
> about stuff. Rebecca want to jump in here?
We're more under the impression , that if he wants to be that anal
about his stuff for her, then he should dress her in the clothes we
sent BEFORE dropping her off. Its just he's lazy and doesnt want to
deal with changing her into her from home clothes. He would prefer to
have us wash and return them to him the next dropoff.
So your saying us forgetting to return his house clothes a few days
later has caused him to become obsessive about it, to the point he
cant trust us to return his stuff? Oh hes also not obbsessive,it was a
one time thing, wher he chose to argue with my wife for not having the
stuff.
>
>
>
>
> Love,
> Melissa
There really is alot more to it than i can explain in a usenet post.
There are many details about the wayBD acts and live shis life that i
just dont communicat properly. Like the fact, he got my wife pregnant
senior year, got engaged to her then a year later cancelled the
wedding the dya before it was to happen. If you take the child out of
the equation, we end up with a lazy, self centered, workaholic.
I fell like im just reiterating the same junk, and trying to defend my
posisiton. Truth is i can never explain the situation fully enough for
anyone here to make an honest opinion about things. The responses have
helped in a way where im starting to realize a bit of the other side.
I will tell you though that for the first year of my relationship with
ym wife, i tried objectively to have a good friendly opinion of BD. I
wanted everyone to be friends, be able to have parties for SD with
everyone there, ect.. My motivation was i never had that sort of thing
when i grew up, my mom and dad wouldnt be caught dead in the same
room!
Time after time i gave BD the benefit of the doubt. Eventually i just
got tired of his crap. Thinsg like agreeing to swap closer drop off
points, my wife drives to 20 miutes to within 2 mins of his condo for
every dropoff/pickup. Other things like he took a new posisiton at a
different petco so he could get more time off to spend with SD, yet
now he actually works more and by his own decision not his bosses.
Things like bad mouthing the town we moved to, saying the schools were
crap, even though its the town i grew up in. Things like bad mouthing
the town we were thinking of moving to saying it was a WT town, even
though his long term Gf grew up there, he worked there, and half my
family lives there. Things like expecting us to never move because he
didnt want to have to drive any further, and so SD could stay in the
same school for her whole school carrear, even though we could never
afford a house in that town and renting for 1050 a month was not a
life plan.
Now im just venting. He an asshole, just take my word for it. I dont
voice that opinion in front of SD, i dont cause problems with my wife
or him over it. In fact i just distance my self from any contact with
him at this point. His actions will eventually bite him in the ass.
His choice of limited contact with SD will turn on him because she
wont be so concerned about it as she gets older. I would like to get
things legal so my wife can stop going out of her way for him all the
time, and so he has to finally start having some responsebility with
things.
One good side though to his shit is, it leaves me with more time to
love and appreciate my SD and my family. If he wants to cause grief
over stupid shit, then go ahead. As long as my families life doesnt
suffer then i dont have a problem with it. Problem with that is i end
up arguing with my wife ove rdumb stuff because he said or did
somehting stupid during a visit or dropoff.
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH its so frustrating. Why cant he just act
normal and live his own life without being such a freaken donkey all
the time.
rebecca
> Honestly , im playing devils advocate, why hsould my hard earned money
> be used to pay for stuff for his child? My wife would be in the poor
> house trying to raise jess if al she got was 400 a motnh form him.
> Shed be even worse in a few years when those costs start increasing as
> she gets into more life activities.
Okay, well, that's your wife's problem. Your hard-earned money is your
hard-earned money. I'm more and more convinced that you have a marital
problem here, not a stepparenting one. Stop blaming the ex, and talk this
over with your wife. Does she have any idea how angry you are about your
finances?
>
>
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH its so frustrating. Why cant he just act
> normal and live his own life without being such a freaken donkey all
> the time.
LOL.
rebecca
The Watsons
> be used to pay for stuff for his child?
that's not her father's issue, that's something you and your wife need to
talk about....:)
>My wife would be in the poor
> house trying to raise jess if al she got was 400 a motnh form him.
> Shed be even worse in a few years when those costs start increasing as
> she gets into more life activities.
400/month is supposed to be his half, and she's contributing the other
half...who claims your SD on taxes, and have you checked out the state
credits/resources as well? and if it needs to be raised, she needs to
address that with him and/or in the mediation session...the child support
worksheets might be available online, complete with directions...:)
> He does not help pay any extra for things like afterschool activities,
> parties she goes to,ect..The only costs above support and ins/med
> bills he helps with are for things he spends money on during her time
> with him. All other things we bear the full cost of, including all the
> toys, food,activities,school programs,educational expenses, ect that
> we buy during her time with us. Yes i uderstand those are costs of
> having a child living with you :)
:) with that said, has she tried mentioning to him some of these extra bills
to see if he'd be willing to split half ("gee, ex, jess really likes ballet
lessons, but i have a real hard time affording it on my own, would you mind
splitting the cost with me somehow so she can stay in it?")...
> So too did we buy the stuff she brings and we dont get back. Its
> granted she will leave home stuff there and leave BD stuff at home.
> However we dont get pissy with him over it.
i'm having trouble reconciling this from your original post....if you're
inwardly stewing and resenting him/his actions, that is going to leak
through in how you interact with him (and this applies to your wife, as
well)...
> We're more under the impression , that if he wants to be that anal
> about his stuff for her, then he should dress her in the clothes we
> sent BEFORE dropping her off. Its just he's lazy and doesnt want to
> deal with changing her into her from home clothes. He would prefer to
> have us wash and return them to him the next dropoff.
has he said that, or are you just assuming? because if he said it, then i'd
be willing to strike a deal with him-"well, gee, i'd be glad to wash the
clothes from your house and make sure you get 'em back next pickup, she left
a dress there last time, could you wash it and make sure we get it back
please?"....
> So your saying us forgetting to return his house clothes a few days
> later has caused him to become obsessive about it, to the point he
> cant trust us to return his stuff? Oh hes also not obbsessive,it was a
> one time thing, wher he chose to argue with my wife for not having the
> stuff.
my SD's BM did the same thing to us-we'd buy clothes and send her back in
them, and they'd "disappear" and never be seen again....we couldn't afford
buying her new clothing every visit to replace what disappeared, nor could
we afford to fill up the entire closet every few months....
> There really is alot more to it than i can explain in a usenet post.
> There are many details about the wayBD acts and live shis life that i
> just dont communicat properly.
but it's His life, not yours...you have enough on your plate to stress and
worry over, why add someone else's life to it?
>Like the fact, he got my wife pregnant
> senior year, got engaged to her then a year later cancelled the
> wedding the dya before it was to happen. If you take the child out of
> the equation, we end up with a lazy, self centered, workaholic.
where'd you get that opinion from? it's not uncommon for older people to get
cold feet before they get married, much less anyone younger...and there
being a child on the way would likely aggravate those worries, but at least
he's stuck around to parent his child and pay child support....
> I fell like im just reiterating the same junk, and trying to defend my
> posisiton. Truth is i can never explain the situation fully enough for
> anyone here to make an honest opinion about things. The responses have
> helped in a way where im starting to realize a bit of the other side.
:D
> I will tell you though that for the first year of my relationship with
> ym wife, i tried objectively to have a good friendly opinion of BD. I
> wanted everyone to be friends, be able to have parties for SD with
> everyone there, ect.. My motivation was i never had that sort of thing
> when i grew up, my mom and dad wouldnt be caught dead in the same
> room!
*snerks* my fiance's parents divorced when he was 5, and they get along
Great now-and they'll be the first to tell you that...fiance had dad and
both stepdads at his first wedding, and all three of them took the boys out
to fit the tuxes and all that....talk about "culture" shock for me, when my
parents and my husband and his first wife can/could barely be caught
breathing the same air....;)
> Time after time i gave BD the benefit of the doubt. Eventually i just
> got tired of his crap. Thinsg like agreeing to swap closer drop off
> points, my wife drives to 20 miutes to within 2 mins of his condo for
> every dropoff/pickup.
that's something she needs to address with him...
>Other things like he took a new posisiton at a
> different petco so he could get more time off to spend with SD, yet
> now he actually works more and by his own decision not his bosses.
she needs to address that with him, or they can hammer it out in the
mediation session...
> Things like bad mouthing the town we moved to, saying the schools were
> crap, even though its the town i grew up in.
water-duck-back...:)
>Things like bad mouthing
> the town we were thinking of moving to saying it was a WT town, even
> though his long term Gf grew up there, he worked there, and half my
> family lives there.
water-duck-back...:) or as a substitute, baseball bat and tree or gym
punching bag...:) i like baking myself, but somehow, i don't think you'd get
the same satisfaction that i do from kneading the frigging daylights out of
a ball of dough or chopping up cookies....;D
> Things like expecting us to never move because he
> didnt want to have to drive any further, and so SD could stay in the
> same school for her whole school carrear, even though we could never
> afford a house in that town and renting for 1050 a month was not a
> life plan.
*shrugs* such is the life of a noncustodial parent...it will be to his
benefit to settle that in the mediation....
> Now im just venting. He an asshole, just take my word for it. I dont
> voice that opinion in front of SD, i dont cause problems with my wife
> or him over it. In fact i just distance my self from any contact with
> him at this point. His actions will eventually bite him in the ass.
> His choice of limited contact with SD will turn on him because she
> wont be so concerned about it as she gets older. I would like to get
> things legal so my wife can stop going out of her way for him all the
> time, and so he has to finally start having some responsebility with
> things.
ok, now i'm gonna ask this-are you more irritated that you don't see him as
taking more responsibility, or are you more irritated that you perceive your
wife is being taken advantage of and it's splashing onto you and ya'lls
household? if it's the latter, then that's something you need to address
with her...
> One good side though to his shit is, it leaves me with more time to
> love and appreciate my SD and my family. If he wants to cause grief
> over stupid shit, then go ahead.
well, honestly, i've seen you stressing about stupid stuff, so.......:)
>As long as my families life doesnt
> suffer then i dont have a problem with it. Problem with that is i end
> up arguing with my wife ove rdumb stuff because he said or did
> somehting stupid during a visit or dropoff.
then i'd suggest you might have something to ponder....and to be clear,
there wouldn't be a thing wrong with being upset with your wife-goodness
knows there were plenty of times i wanted to smack my husband with a
steelplated two by four....:D
> AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH its so frustrating. Why cant he just act
> normal and live his own life without being such a freaken donkey all
> the time.
hon, but he Is acting normal, that's part of what i'm suggesting...he's
paying child support and exercising his visitation....this Is normal...enjoy
it-you get a free weekend with your wife every other weekend...how cool is
that? :D
Jess
(and how weird is That?:D)
Melissa
>be used to pay for stuff for his child?
That is so not BD's fault though. You chose to marry this woman, and you chose
to take on those financial burdens. Blaming BD for that makes no sense.
> My wife would be in the poor
>house trying to raise jess if al she got was 400 a motnh form him.
>Shed be even worse in a few years when those costs start increasing as
>she gets into more life activities.
>
That's not BD's fault either really.
>So your saying us forgetting to return his house clothes a few days
>later has caused him to become obsessive about it, to the point he
>cant trust us to return his stuff?
He can't trust you. You've just said that you guys forget to return things.
Love,
Melissa
Geri and sometimes Brian
>to take on those financial burdens.
I disagree with that. A step-parent has no financial obligation to the SK
unless he/she wants to.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Melissa
What are we disagreeing on exactly? I thought that's what I said.
Love,
Melissa
Geri and sometimes Brian
I thought you told him he chose to take on those financial burdens. I don't
think he has to shoulder SK financial burdens unless he wants to. Did I read
this wrong?
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Melissa
>I thought you told him he chose to take on those financial burdens. I don't
>think he has to shoulder SK financial burdens unless he wants to. Did I read
>this wrong?
No I was saying that he chose to marry her *and additionally* he chose to take
on the burdens. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
Love,
Melissa
Lee Adams
OP hasn't said - unless I missed it - whether BM works outside the home.
If she doesn't, and didn't when they married, then he certainly
agreed, at least implicitly, to take on the financial burden of
supplying BM's share of support for the child.
If she does work, then he's simply not getting the concept that *both*
parents need to contribute financially. I think they would benefit from
checking out the CS guidelines for their state - that might help make it
clearer that both parents are expected to support the child(ren)
financially.
Lee
>
> Love,
> Melissa
>
jane
>
>Am i wrong with any of this??
Oh, yeah! Most glaringly with:
> So finally after this "last straw" ive convinced her of the
>need to get things legal. To have everything spelled out by CT state
>law so everyone knows thier place and acts accordingly.
Going to court isn't going to solve any of the problems you've mentioned.
Going to court can do nothing to make BD less annoying or lazy or inflexible.
I consider not going to court one of the smartest moves I ever made in my
parenting split. There's no court order for me to violate. My ex and I do
whatever we think is right. We disagree from time to time, but we hash it out
like married parents do. Not having the option of going into court for
contempt keeps us reasonable. It requires us to behave as adults.
From what you've said, that's pretty much what your wife and her ex seem to be
doing. If you think the strain of *that* is tough, tell her to do her
complaining to her mother and just tell you she needs a foot rub. Because once
court orders are involved, the ex will be doing the same annoying things and
your wife will have the threat of him dragging her into court hanging her over
her head all the time.
Right now, the ex's rights toward his child are tacit, presumed, potential.
After your wife "makes things legal," he'll probably have joint legal and
physical custody, more visitation than he has now, possibly less CS obligation.
Your wife won't just be rolling her eyes as she hammers out pickup details,
she'll probably have them written into a court order as her responsibility. If
the day ever does come that little Jessica realizes her father is an ass and
tells him so, your wife will still be bound to drop her at his door at the
appointed time.
Custody trials are immensely time-consuming, stressful, expensive, and
invasive. If you think you want one, you're wrong. This can go on for years,
cost you tens (or hundreds) of thousands of dollars, and involve intense
investigation of you and your wife's mental and physical health, marital
relationship, home, finances, job situations, etc.
jane
>Thanks
rebecca
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040424102350...@mb-m03.aol.com...
>
> >
> >Am i wrong with any of this??
>
> Oh, yeah! Most glaringly with:
>
> > So finally after this "last straw" ive convinced her of the
> >need to get things legal. To have everything spelled out by CT state
> >law so everyone knows thier place and acts accordingly.
>
> Going to court isn't going to solve any of the problems you've mentioned.
> Going to court can do nothing to make BD less annoying or lazy or
inflexible.
aw, damn, Jane, I am as always in awe of your ability to be right.
rebecca
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>> Going to court isn't going to solve any of the problems you've mentioned.
>> Going to court can do nothing to make BD less annoying or lazy or
>inflexible.
>
>
>aw, damn, Jane, I am as always in awe of your ability to be right.
<groan> Geez Rebecca, stop feeding the bears!! You say something like
that and then she thinks it's fine to spout things like, "Our mates
chose us for a reason, how are you <shudder> like the BM?"
Anne
Who let BM hold the baby last night, don't die...
rebecca
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:vuuk801m9tti8pnbv...@4ax.com...
>
> Anne
> Who let BM hold the baby last night, don't die...
Naw, I found the _idea_ of her clapping eyes on my kid was much worse than
the reality, which didn't bother me in the slightest. Course, these days
I'm public enemy number 1, right up their with SO, so I've not had the
pleasure of seeing her in awhile. There's a baseball game today, though, so
I might get to see her... can't wait. (-:
rebecca
jane
>aw, damn, Jane, I am as always in awe of your ability to be right.
>
>rebecca
Please call my daughter today. Please, Rebecca. You too, Melissa. Somehow,
she's blind to my ability to be right.
jane
Deborah M Riel
for being blind to your ability to be right! She's doing just what
she's *supposed* to be doing."
Deb R.
jane
And of course I'd have been right.
It's worse than that, though, Deb. Would you please tell me that randomly and
unpredictably swinging from grabbing her and holding on to pushing her out of
the nest is what *I* am supposed to be doing?
jane
Anne Robotti
>It's worse than that, though, Deb. Would you please tell me that randomly and
>unpredictably swinging from grabbing her and holding on to pushing her out of
>the nest is what *I* am supposed to be doing?
Well, but duh. Didn't you tell Vicki this exact thing at this time
last year?
Anne
jane
>Well, but duh. Didn't you tell Vicki this exact thing at this time
>last year?
>
>Anne
Really! Did I? You're not just saying that to make me feel better, are you?
Oh screw it, I'll google.
jane
Deborah M Riel
jane <janel...@aol.com> wrote:
>It's worse than that, though, Deb. Would you please tell me that randomly and
>unpredictably swinging from grabbing her and holding on to pushing her out of
>the nest is what *I* am supposed to be doing?
>
It's the random and unpredictable swinging stuff that we need
to get a grip on. I bet once that's under control, the pushing out of
the nest part will be so much easier and happier all around.
Deb R.
Anne Robotti
Google on "Vicki, for crying out loud." You said it quite smugly and
as a self-evident fact.
I recall snickering at the time.
Anne
Luvya!
jane
>to get a grip on.
I'm telling you, Deb, it's driving me nuts. Did I mention crying in the
supermarket yet?
jane
>
>Deb R.
Deborah M Riel
No, you didn't, but I know what you're talking about... I've had some
of those "let's pretend it's allergy season" moments myself.
Deb R.
Lori
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040423094701...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >She has never come home with a new
> >toy after her "shared parenting". Any clothing,toys,ect.. he buys for
> >her has a mandatory rule that it stays at his house.
>
> That's pretty common actually. BD needs stuff for SD to play with, wear
and
> use at his house.
>
Yep. When we were non-custodial we didn't let SS's things we bought go to
his mother's, either. *Especially* clothing! We learned PDQ that to do so
was to get it back ruined, or not at all.
> >What i infer
> >about this is he feels his 400 a month is sufficient to cover all
> >costs involved with raising her
>
> No it's not, but he has costs beyond that 400 a month in raising her as
well.
Absolutely.
> >Also that any money he spends on top
> >of that for clothes, food whatever, is his property for SD to use when
> >shes around him.
> >
>
> Well of course. He bought it didn't he?
In our case, given that we never actually saw any spending by BM on decent
clothing for SS (though her daughter always had nice things, hmmm), there
was no way we'd have ever sent anything we bought back to her house, if we
had the choice not to. Of course, there were the times he arrived for a
weekend in shorts and t-shirt, and need to be in clothing for cooler weather
by Sunday, so we'd have to send him home in something from here. And the
times he arrived wearing no underwear, or underwear that was literally
falling apart, and send him home with some from here, etc.
>
> >
> >Ok fine, i can understand having a few sets of clothing/toys at his
> >house, no biggie. Copping an attitude with my wife because she didnt
> >have those clothes washed and with her at the next dropoff is being an
> >asshole.
>
> So is not having the stuff ready to go. It also explains why he's so
obsesive
> about stuff. Rebecca want to jump in here?
>
We always felt the same way as the dad in this situation. It isn't a good
feeling to be spending what little funds you have available to dress the
child decently, have to send him home in something you bought and either not
get it back, or not get it back in any sort of decent shape.
lori
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Lori
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040423215314...@mb-m27.aol.com...
> >What are we disagreeing on exactly? I thought that's what I said.
>
> I thought you told him he chose to take on those financial burdens. I
don't
> think he has to shoulder SK financial burdens unless he wants to. Did I
read
> this wrong?
>
Melissa's correct - by choosing to help pay for them, he *has* chosen to
take on the burden. he didn't choose it by becoming a SP, he chose it by
doing it.
Lori
Geri and sometimes Brian
>take on the burden. he didn't choose it by becoming a SP, he chose it by
>doing it.
Right - I see what you are saying. OTOH, he can un-choose it at any time, too.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Lori
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
> >Melissa's correct - by choosing to help pay for them, he *has* chosen to
> >take on the burden. he didn't choose it by becoming a SP, he chose it by
> >doing it.
>
> Right - I see what you are saying. OTOH, he can un-choose it at any time,
too.
>
Absplutely! :-)
Lori
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Anne Robotti
<sniff sniff> Look, there are the mangoes. She loves mangoes! <SOB!>
Anne
Anne Robotti
wrote:
>Yep. When we were non-custodial we didn't let SS's things we bought go to
>his mother's, either. *Especially* clothing! We learned PDQ that to do so
>was to get it back ruined, or not at all.
Or my personal favorite, "Me and Mommy made LOTS of money on our
garage sale, Aunt XYZ said we made five hundred dollars!" and you know
they made it selling the stuff you bought at Gymboree and the Gap. I
believe it was after the first yard sale that we started shopping at
Target.
>
>In our case, given that we never actually saw any spending by BM on decent
>clothing for SS (though her daughter always had nice things, hmmm), there
>was no way we'd have ever sent anything we bought back to her house, if we
>had the choice not to. Of course, there were the times he arrived for a
>weekend in shorts and t-shirt, and need to be in clothing for cooler weather
>by Sunday, so we'd have to send him home in something from here. And the
>times he arrived wearing no underwear, or underwear that was literally
>falling apart, and send him home with some from here, etc.
Yup, done that. Bought a pack of underwear and just sent it home. But
mostly I just washed whatever she wore here and sent her back in that.
If it was shorts/t-shirt, she wore a jacket and took it off when she
got there. (Don't get me started on the year I bought five spring
jackets because SD kept "forgetting" to bring them back.)
>We always felt the same way as the dad in this situation. It isn't a good
>feeling to be spending what little funds you have available to dress the
>child decently, have to send him home in something you bought and either not
>get it back, or not get it back in any sort of decent shape.
>lori
Yup, sorry, put me on Dad's side too. And I got there the hard way, I
always (in the beginning, when I was raw and stupid) pictured SD going
to school in the clothes I bought and got a lot of pleasure out of
that, until I realized one year that I had spent over $2000 on clothes
in the past twelve months and I had to do another big shop because SD
had nothing to wear again.
Anne
Anne Robotti
sometimes Brian) wrote:
>>Melissa's correct - by choosing to help pay for them, he *has* chosen to
>>take on the burden. he didn't choose it by becoming a SP, he chose it by
>>doing it.
>
>Right - I see what you are saying. OTOH, he can un-choose it at any time, too.
Geri, are you new? Choosing this stuff happens without even knowing
it. Un-choosing it takes two years of therapy and everybody still
resents you for not doing "your job."
Anne
Geri and sometimes Brian
>it. Un-choosing it takes two years of therapy and everybody still
>resents you for not doing "your job."
Ha-ha! That's why I am telling her now, so she can get a head start on that
therapy.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Melissa
>Who let BM hold the baby last night, don't die...
>
WHA?
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>Please call my daughter today. Please, Rebecca. You too, Melissa. Somehow,
>she's blind to my ability to be right.
>
>jane
>
I'll be sure to tell her all about how right you are when she's at my house
this summer.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>last year?
>
>Anne
Jane also says that people go crazy when their kids are about to leave the
nest.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>too.
>
>~~Geri~~
Sure. Actually that makes a heck of alot more sense than blaming BD.
Love,
Melissa
jane
>nest.
>Love,
>Melissa
Okay, here's a mystery then.
I remember once telling Kevin's SO that I loved ASSP because I couldn't figure
out problems in my own life, I could only see issues clearly in other people's
lives and then apply them to mine. She assured me that many many other people
were the same way.
Now this thing here, where I know parents go crazy when their kids leave, and
then I'm completely caught of guard when I go crazy... is that common too? Or
is it just one of the many charming foibles that make me me?
jane
Wendy
> Please call my daughter today. Please, Rebecca. You too, Melissa.
Somehow,
> she's blind to my ability to be right.
She won't be once you've apologised for your anger and frustration and
chances are if you're big enough to admit that you don't know how you got
there then she'll admit her own mistakes.
Wendy
Wendy
> It's worse than that, though, Deb. Would you please tell me that randomly
and
> unpredictably swinging from grabbing her and holding on to pushing her out
of
> the nest is what *I* am supposed to be doing?
It must be, because that's certainly what I'm doing with Lou.
Wendy
Wendy
"Deborah M Riel" <dr...@wpi.edu> wrote in message
news:c6f7ln$2cmg$1...@bigboote.WPI.EDU...
> No, you didn't, but I know what you're talking about... I've had some
> of those "let's pretend it's allergy season" moments myself.
I've had more than one day during the last month where I had to say to
people "Don't ask me to talk about it because I'll cry." I've had days
where the tears just flowed and I'm not sure how much is what's happening
with the girls and what's happening to me.
Wendy
Melissa
>then I'm completely caught of guard when I go crazy... is that common too?
>Or
>is it just one of the many charming foibles that make me me?
>
>jane
I think it's just part of the being crazy itself. You're not going to be an
entirely rational person for awhile, especially when it comes to Lee. All that
you can do is embrace the nuttiness, and talk to Lee about how parents go nuts
when their kid is about to go off to college.
Love,
Melissa
jane
>She won't be once you've apologised for your anger and frustration and
>chances are if you're big enough to admit that you don't know how you got
>there then she'll admit her own mistakes.
>
>Wendy
Completely true. In case anyone else finds herself in this position, all you
really need is two cell phones. Call Anne R (apparently the Eurocrowd can
substitute Wendy) on one. Then call your kid on the other, and repeat
precisely what she says. Your kid replies, "That's okay, Mom. I didn't think
you were being a bitch. I just didn't understand why you were upset." Then
you hang up, sob over some mangos, and buy enough toothbrush heads to get her
through college.
jane
The Watsons
> Completely true. In case anyone else finds herself in this position, all
you
> really need is two cell phones. Call Anne R (apparently the Eurocrowd can
> substitute Wendy) on one. Then call your kid on the other, and repeat
> precisely what she says. Your kid replies, "That's okay, Mom. I didn't
think
> you were being a bitch. I just didn't understand why you were upset."
Then
> you hang up, sob over some mangos, and buy enough toothbrush heads to get
her
> through college.
>
*LOL*
Jess
jane
>you can do is embrace the nuttiness,
I'm glad you said this. If this is what this stage is, then I want to make the
most of it. So far all I can really get a clear handle on is the toothbrush
heads. Oh, and bursting into tears. I am so nuts.
jane
>
>Love,
>Melissa
>
>
_calinda_
to
> make the most of it. So far all I can really get a clear handle
on
> is the toothbrush heads. Oh, and bursting into tears. I am so
nuts.
>
> jane
Okay. What is wrong with me. I've had none of this (yet?) with DS.
I haven't had any crazies or 'allergies' or anything.
I keep wondering if I'm just cold hearted or what? Was the nearly 2
years BNing prep for this maybe?
Or is it just going to hit me like a ton of bricks a few months down
the line?
Cal~
Wendy
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6gkup$bo497$1...@ID-178943.news.uni-berlin.de...
> Okay. What is wrong with me. I've had none of this (yet?) with DS.
> I haven't had any crazies or 'allergies' or anything.
>
> I keep wondering if I'm just cold hearted or what? Was the nearly 2
> years BNing prep for this maybe?
I don't think it can be the bird nesting. I'm used to my girls living half
the week somewhere else. It's not that.
> Or is it just going to hit me like a ton of bricks a few months down
> the line?
How imminent is college/leaving home?
Wendy
>
>
The Watsons
"_calinda_" <calinda...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6gkup$bo497$1...@ID-178943.news.uni-berlin.de...
> the line?
i dunno, never had to worry about it with my parents...:)
Jess
jane
>the line?
>Cal~
I don't know, Cal. A week ago I was where you are. I was thinking that all
those summers Lee had spent with her father had been prep.
Then, I was picking Lee and a friend up from a college fair, and they started
complaining about the mother who's having a hard time with the trip. I said,
"But you guys, you're all about embracing the future and charging into your
adult lives, and that's just where you *should* be. But for us, it's the death
of our baby. Our baby is gone forever." And then I burst into tears.
Since then I've been completely irrational. Or emotional. I think I have more
trouble with being an erupting volcano of conflicting emotions than most people
do.
OMG! It's my High Growth Experience!
jane
_calinda_
> How imminent is college/leaving home?
He's graduating HS June 6 and registering for his college classes
mid-june. Mostly I've just felt excited for him. I didn't go away
to school when I was his age. I'm happy that he's having this
opportunity.
Cal~
> Wendy
_calinda_
> Then, I was picking Lee and a friend up from a college fair, and
they
> started complaining about the mother who's having a hard time with
> the trip. I said, "But you guys, you're all about embracing the
> future and charging into your adult lives, and that's just where
you
> *should* be. But for us, it's the death of our baby. Our baby is
> gone forever." And then I burst into tears.
I see what you're saying. Perhaps that trigger just hasn't hit me
yet. Other than ton's of prep for his audition a few weeks ago,
he's been *very* blase about the whole thing. Is that normal?
> Since then I've been completely irrational. Or emotional. I
think I
> have more trouble with being an erupting volcano of conflicting
> emotions than most people do.
Perhaps. What worries me is that I haven't had all those emotions
conflicting and I actually feel *guilty* for not feeling them.
Currently my life is in a sort of limbo, as I'm staying in the
school district until the kids are out of HS, then I'm moving on.
I hate saying this, but having my children move on towards adulthood
releases me to a new life as well and it's one I look forward to.
It was my choice, certainly but I've focused on them for so long I'm
looking forward to the time when I can focus on ME for a change.
And yes, there is a good deal of guilt in admitting this.
> OMG! It's my High Growth Experience!
:-)
Cal~
>
> jane
Melissa
>the line?
>Cal~
That's what happened with SO when he moved SD into her dorm.
Love,
Melissa
Anne Robotti
>Now this thing here, where I know parents go crazy when their kids leave, and
>then I'm completely caught of guard when I go crazy... is that common too? Or
>is it just one of the many charming foibles that make me me?
Ahem. The second one.
Anne
Vicki Robinson
>I hate saying this, but having my children move on towards adulthood
>releases me to a new life as well and it's one I look forward to.
>It was my choice, certainly but I've focused on them for so long I'm
>looking forward to the time when I can focus on ME for a change.
>And yes, there is a good deal of guilt in admitting this.
Why? This is what you've been working towards for many years. Time to
pat yourself on the back and say "Well done! I'm going to Disney
World!"
Seriously, try to isolate the reasons for that guilt. Because you're
supposed to be overcome with grief at the idea of your children
becoming adults? It's an adjustment, yes, and I've *certainly* shed
my share of tears and expect to shed lots more. (I can't listen to "I
Hope You Dance" without dissolving.) But I don't feel any genuine
guilt; a little, I guess, along with regret at missed opportunities
and the desire to go back and do some things over. But, mostly, I
feel pretty good; my kids are awesome, and I will accept some of the
credit for that. Now I get to do the next part of my life.
If you think of stages, it seems normal.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
Deborah M Riel
Wendy <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote:
>I've had more than one day during the last month where I had to say to
>people "Don't ask me to talk about it because I'll cry." I've had days
>where the tears just flowed and I'm not sure how much is what's happening
>with the girls and what's happening to me.
>
I keep thinking about this. I've been having a hard time with
parenting this year--harder than any other year so far. I really
think it's because up until this year, my son moved away from me just
a tiny bit at a time. All of a sudden he's bolted. He was a homebody
type of kid, and thought I was a great, cool mom. Now, he lives here,
but he's basically somewhere else, and I'm not so great and cool any
more. He was a very honest, open kid who would talk about anything
with me, now he's keeping it to himself. He was my pal, now his
friends are his life and I'm in his way. It's not that he's moving
out to go to college, but he's leaving the nest nonetheless. I think
there's more moving away to come before he starts to come back, and
it'll never be the same. Jack Kerouac said "accept loss forever" but
damn, it's hard.
I was going to say that maybe it's hard for parents of only children,
but Wendy you have 2 and it's hard for you, too.
And I hate to bring this up in case it sounds like a cop-out, but
could it be a particularly cruel combination of kid(s) leaving the
nest and (peri)menopause? Hormones and life changes on both ends of
the spectrum?
Deb R.
Lori
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:j5om801ek4opufcme...@4ax.com...
> On Sat, 24 Apr 2004 23:35:16 -0400, "Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com>
> wrote:
>
>
> >Yep. When we were non-custodial we didn't let SS's things we bought go
to
> >his mother's, either. *Especially* clothing! We learned PDQ that to do
so
> >was to get it back ruined, or not at all.
>
> Or my personal favorite, "Me and Mommy made LOTS of money on our
> garage sale, Aunt XYZ said we made five hundred dollars!" and you know
> they made it selling the stuff you bought at Gymboree and the Gap. I
> believe it was after the first yard sale that we started shopping at
> Target.
I kept a selection of decent garage sale/thrift shop things for those
occasions when we had to send him home in something other than what he
arrived in. Hey, *our* son also has a significant amount of thrift/garage
sale stuff in his wardrobe. The best of it I included into his wardrobe for
here, the the less desirable could go back to mom's with him if need be. I
learned fast.
> >In our case, given that we never actually saw any spending by BM on
decent
> >clothing for SS (though her daughter always had nice things, hmmm), there
> >was no way we'd have ever sent anything we bought back to her house, if
we
> >had the choice not to. Of course, there were the times he arrived for a
> >weekend in shorts and t-shirt, and need to be in clothing for cooler
weather
> >by Sunday, so we'd have to send him home in something from here. And the
> >times he arrived wearing no underwear, or underwear that was literally
> >falling apart, and send him home with some from here, etc.
>
> Yup, done that. Bought a pack of underwear and just sent it home. But
> mostly I just washed whatever she wore here and sent her back in that.
Same here. It went into the washer within 20 minutes of arrival, all of it
from underwear to jacket, because every bit of it was generally so filthy
and smelly that we couldn't stand the thought of putting it back on him (the
jacket, I mean. We'd have washed the rest of it just because it had been
worn)
> If it was shorts/t-shirt, she wore a jacket and took it off when she
> got there. (Don't get me started on the year I bought five spring
> jackets because SD kept "forgetting" to bring them back.)
SS ended up having jackets here that we provided. They were for wearing
here, period. The one time she sent him without, we called her before the
meet to exchange back to her and told her to bring his coat, because he'd be
wearing one borrowed from his brother and we'd need to bring it home with
us.
> >We always felt the same way as the dad in this situation. It isn't a
good
> >feeling to be spending what little funds you have available to dress the
> >child decently, have to send him home in something you bought and either
not
> >get it back, or not get it back in any sort of decent shape.
> >lori
>
> Yup, sorry, put me on Dad's side too. And I got there the hard way, I
> always (in the beginning, when I was raw and stupid) pictured SD going
> to school in the clothes I bought and got a lot of pleasure out of
> that, until I realized one year that I had spent over $2000 on clothes
> in the past twelve months and I had to do another big shop because SD
> had nothing to wear again.
Good for you!
Lori
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Wendy
> I was going to say that maybe it's hard for parents of only children,
> but Wendy you have 2 and it's hard for you, too.
Younger children often starter earlier, emulating their older siblings.
Madi started high school last year and there's been a big change in her too
in the last year or two.
> And I hate to bring this up in case it sounds like a cop-out, but
> could it be a particularly cruel combination of kid(s) leaving the
> nest and (peri)menopause? Hormones and life changes on both ends of
> the spectrum?
Quite probably.
Wendy
nogoer
> >why hsould my hard earned money
> >be used to pay for stuff for his child?
>
> That is so not BD's fault though. You chose to marry this woman, and you chose
> to take on those financial burdens. Blaming BD for that makes no sense.
>
> > My wife would be in the poor
> >house trying to raise jess if al she got was 400 a motnh form him.
> >Shed be even worse in a few years when those costs start increasing as
> >she gets into more life activities.
> >
>
> That's not BD's fault either really.
>
> >So your saying us forgetting to return his house clothes a few days
> >later has caused him to become obsessive about it, to the point he
> >cant trust us to return his stuff?
>
> He can't trust you. You've just said that you guys forget to return things.
> Love,
> Melissa
he can trust us, this whole thing was one time only and he gave hell
for it. The only thing she ever leaves his house with are the clothes
she's wearing. They always go back the next visit.
nogoer
> >
> >I thought you told him he chose to take on those financial burdens. I don't
> >think he has to shoulder SK financial burdens unless he wants to. Did I read
> >this wrong?
>
> No I was saying that he chose to marry her *and additionally* he chose to take
> on the burdens. Sorry, I should have made that more clear.
>
>
> Love,
> Melissa
Yes i did choose to marry her.....and.....i chose to take on those
financial burdens of my SD.
Honestly im dam glad i did both of those. My wife is my soul mate and
i melt when i see jessies eyes light up when we agree to let her get a
new toy or do anything that she wants to that needs my financial
support.
Anne Robotti
>i melt when i see jessies eyes light up when we agree to let her get a
>new toy or do anything that she wants to that needs my financial
>support.
Of course, that shit gets old fast when the other parent is a
non-returning psycho and seeing the kid's eyes light up at the first
glimpse is the last time you ever see that toy, and you repeat that
100 times.
Anne
Angie Reynolds
"nogoer" <nog...@charter.net> wrote in message
news:54f105d0.04042...@posting.google.com...
What we did when we had SS6 (then 5) on the weekends before we got full
custody of him, was to have a seperate set of clothes here for him, which
was not hard since he and SS8 (then 7) wore the same size. He left with the
clothes he came to our house in and that made things alot easier. As far as
the child support thing, well, it's just something you have to deal with.
You knew she had a kid by another guy entering into the marriage, and you
should have been prepared for that. Yes, it sucks, but it's just part of
entering into a relationship with a person that has a kid previously and
blending families.
Angie
nogoer
Im not sure i get whats being said? BD has this thing about a yuppie
image when it comes the his daughter. All the clothes he buys are gap,
ect...and WE ALWAYS RETURN ANYTHING OF HIS THAT ENDS UP AT HOME. It
was just the one time my wife didnt bring them on thurs, but sent them
with SD friday for her weekend visit. Not sure why this one thing has
been focused on so much :)
Melissa
>financial burdens of my SD.
>
>Honestly im dam glad i did both of those. My wife is my soul mate and
>i melt when i see jessies eyes light up when we agree to let her get a
>new toy or do anything that she wants to that needs my financial
>support.
>
>
Look I'm not saying that what you're doign is right or wrong. I'm just saying
that it's not BD's fault.
Love,
Melissa
Anne Robotti
>> Yup, sorry, put me on Dad's side too. And I got there the hard way, I
>> always (in the beginning, when I was raw and stupid) pictured SD going
>> to school in the clothes I bought and got a lot of pleasure out of
>> that, until I realized one year that I had spent over $2000 on clothes
>> in the past twelve months and I had to do another big shop because SD
>> had nothing to wear again.
>>
>> Anne
>
>Im not sure i get whats being said? BD has this thing about a yuppie
>image when it comes the his daughter. All the clothes he buys are gap,
>ect...and WE ALWAYS RETURN ANYTHING OF HIS THAT ENDS UP AT HOME. It
>was just the one time my wife didnt bring them on thurs, but sent them
>with SD friday for her weekend visit. Not sure why this one thing has
>been focused on so much :)
I guess what I'm saying is that there are perfectly good reasons why a
person might get to feeling like stuff they buy should stay at their
house. If you don't take it as a slap in the face, but just accept it
as the other person's feelings and try to respect it, you'll do better
all around.
Anne
nogoer
im realizing im pretty much just being a whiney little brat!
So sorry.
There were waaaaay too many posts to respond to everything, but heres
some new thoughts. First of all, everything ive mentioned in here ive
pretty much kept to myself. This may be part of the whole problem :)
I am not quite sure why im stressing so much over all of this. I
really should be happy about the fact that BD chooses not to be very
involved, shouldnt i? Well at least form my point of view. BD is there
for SD, she knows hes her father, and he does take somewhat of an
interest in her life outside his parenting. I think when it comes to
"life choices", i mean stuff like school and whatnot, he takes the
opinion of, my wife is her mom....she knows whats best. It may not be
so much that BD doesnt care to get involved.
My wife does seem to be pretty content with the situation, and i
shouldnt push so much on the stupid little things. I also do alot of
comparison to my own experiences, since its all i know about this kind
of thing. Its only when BD tries to take more than he should, by
taking advantage of my wifes generosity, that things go awry. However
she does a great job of keeping him in line and knows alot more than i
about how to handle him. Some of the things he does/wants are just
annoying and petty though!
He does get holidays, but he/we really only worry about the major
ones, e.g xmas. Althoug he does make it an exremely difficult
endevour! He wants her only for a few hours, but right in the middle
of the day. Imagine our situation for holidays. We have my family,
wifes family, BD's family is also split from divorce. So that makes a
TON of family to try and get jessica around to. I think now we've
settled on some kind of you get this day, we get this day kind of
thing. Its just way too hectic any other way.
As far as CS goes...I did run te calculators, he only pays about half
what they camne up with. He does pay for her ins, but only because he
doesnt pay barely any extra for her on it. He also is not very good at
handling payment to doctors with his and our money for major medical
bills. My wife used to allow him to keep the CS payment to apply
towards our half the balance. He would use that money to make that
months payment and not pay any of his income. Those bills are above
and beyond the CS payment, we split them by half, yet our half never
really seemed to go down. Whatever the new balance was we still owed
half? Problem is to move SD to our ins would be a bmw car payment!
Not going to court is a good objective, its just tooo dang costly in
time and money. However i do still want a legal type agreement that
sets BD's boundries in some way. Using a mediator is what weve already
figured, cost is 250, our cost of course. So we may end up letting it
slide for wahile, since im the only one who seems to have a problem
with the way things are.
As far as the whole financial obligation thing, i am obligated by
marriage. I married my wife so i agreed to take on all her financial
responsebilities. CT law says something about how im legally bound
through my wife to provide a quality home and living environment for
SD. This is not a problem for me.
I think i need to be less concerned with what he does and says, he
needs to be a little more flexible and not so lazy, and my wife needs
to realize a little more htat i am affected by what he does. The first
thing i have to work on, the second is part of the first, and the
third happend the other day.
BD is the store manager where he works. He took the job for more money
and more time for SD. He controls the schedule for himself and chooses
to work everyweekend wether he has Sd or not.
Well this post was meant to be short and simple. I hope i got my point
across that i was being the ass, but that there were real reasons
behind that. Its all a lot of stuff i have no control over, hell never
change. I think somewhere in all of those words some real items were
exposed. Things that are neded to be resolved, things i should just
let go of, ect...
Now that i have a better view of all of it, could some of you actually
sum up what those things were?
Thanks for the enlightenment. I still have developed a dislike for BD,
but i understand a little better of his posistion.
jane
>releases me to a new life as well and it's one I look forward to.
>It was my choice, certainly but I've focused on them for so long I'm
>looking forward to the time when I can focus on ME for a change.
I still think and believe all that good for her/good for me/natural progression
stuff. I feel interested and excited that this is a whole new stage of life
for me. I'm planning what books to write and where to travel and all kinds of
fun adventures.
What's killing me is the conflicting emotions swirling through me. I can
intellectually trace them to forces and changes in my life. It doesn't bother
me that I feel them.
What makes me crazy is that they make me act crazy. It's not just sobbing over
mangos. I get very upset when I can't get Lee on her cell. Then I find out
that she was studying for one of the innumerable approaching exams in her life,
and that ****I**** forgot precisely when it was. I am wrong all the time
lately.
I can handle that. It's not my favorite thing, but being wrong and apologizing
is not outside my comfort zone. What scares me is what comes next. Like
Vicki, I don't want to be a mother who drives her kids nuts, and my behavior
lately would drive me nuts. And like Deb, I really miss being a part of my
kid's life. How am I going to learn to be supportive of this kid as an adult
when all these emotions keep tripping me up?
My mind tells me what it tells Vicki. You'll figure this out. You know how to
be love and be supportive of adults. This huge change is really just another
step along the path. Blah, blah, blah. But then my heart yells, "my baby is
gone forever" and I start sobbing.
>And yes, there is a good deal of guilt in admitting this.
My point is: Don't be surprised if it hits you like a ton of bricks, but don't
confuse the craziness with caring about your kid. I don't know what the minimum
possible torture of yourselves and each other is, but go for it.
jane
>
>:-)
>Cal~
jane
>could it be a particularly cruel combination of kid(s) leaving the
>nest and (peri)menopause? Hormones and life changes on both ends of
>the spectrum?
>
>Deb R.
Yes, definitely for me.
However, I was discussing this with a guy in his 70s the other day. He choked
up when he talked about his oldest son going off to college 30 years ago. Then
a woman friend whose first son went off when she was at this same double-bind
age said that she kept waiting to feel emotional but never did.
My friend, who gets along great with her adult daughter now, said yesterday
that she thought the transition was easier on her because her daughter was so
ugly to her in the year or two before she left for college. I'm trying to
figure out exactly how we figure out with our kids what form this dance will
take.
jane
rebecca
> im realizing im pretty much just being a whiney little brat!
>
> Now that i have a better view of all of it, could some of you actually
> sum up what those things were?
What, now you want a manual?? Jeez, some people. Robotti was working on
one, but she can't concentrate long enough to do anything but get knocked
up, so you'll have to wait with the rest of us (-:
rebecca
The Watsons
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:VXdjc.13677$e4.1...@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> What, now you want a manual?? Jeez, some people. Robotti was working on
> one, but she can't concentrate long enough to do anything but get knocked
> up, so you'll have to wait with the rest of us (-:
hey, she was writing the haiku....;)
Jess
Wendy
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040426103413...@mb-m01.aol.com...
> My friend, who gets along great with her adult daughter now, said
yesterday
> that she thought the transition was easier on her because her daughter was
so
> ugly to her in the year or two before she left for college. I'm trying to
> figure out exactly how we figure out with our kids what form this dance
will
> take.
Maybe you don'?. Maybe this is one of those times when you get to see how
much has been internalised? Lou and I seem to clash all the time at the
moment, yet a few months ago I kept thinking how much easier it had become.
Funnily enough, no matter how we clash she always takes the time to tell me
she loves me, and that's years of me telling her the same. Maybe it's their
turn to guide us through it?
Wendy
jane
>much has been internalised? Lou and I seem to clash all the time at the
>moment, yet a few months ago I kept thinking how much easier it had become.
>Funnily enough, no matter how we clash she always takes the time to tell me
>she loves me, and that's years of me telling her the same. Maybe it's their
>turn to guide us through it?
>
>Wendy
Yeah, but you know how I see these things. It's always the dynamic between the
two people that catches my interest. I mean, sure Lee's guiding me to some
extent, but not consciously. I do see that if we're fighting over cell phones,
we're both choosing the cell phones as the place to hold on, push away, hold
on, push away.
I finally talked to my best friend last night. She has been working on her
thesis or having her own life or some other damned thing. She immediately,
without missing a beat, said, "Jane, she's lucky to have you. She can handle
you flipping out over cell phones as long as you support her in making her
major decisions." Damn, she's good.
But that's what I'm thinking, that we all do the dance in the way that suits
our relationship. Lee could choose school as a battleground by letting her
grades drop. I could choose the road trip by lobbying her father not to let
her go. That's just not convenient or emotionally satisfying or something for
us.
jane
This is why she's my best friend: because she
The Watsons
"Wendy" <we...@hundredakerwood.freeserve.co.uk> wrote in message
news:c6krd1$nca$1...@news7.svr.pol.co.uk...
> Maybe you don'?. Maybe this is one of those times when you get to see how
> much has been internalised? Lou and I seem to clash all the time at the
> moment, yet a few months ago I kept thinking how much easier it had
become.
> Funnily enough, no matter how we clash she always takes the time to tell
me
> she loves me, and that's years of me telling her the same. Maybe it's
their
> turn to guide us through it?
my dad made a comment couple of days ago that he really would've appreciated
some kind of warning when i decided to be an adult instead of doing it
overnight and taking him by surprise...;) i told him that it wasn't my fault
he lost the owner's manual and to call management over it....*snickers*
Jess
The Watsons
> for it. The only thing she ever leaves his house with are the clothes
> she's wearing. They always go back the next visit
cool, less hassle for ya'll to worry over...:D
Jess
The Watsons
> im realizing im pretty much just being a whiney little brat!
*I* wasn't gonna be quite that mean, but i guess it works...;)
> So sorry.
NBD...:)
>
> There were waaaaay too many posts to respond to everything, but heres
> some new thoughts. First of all, everything ive mentioned in here ive
> pretty much kept to myself. This may be part of the whole problem :)
um, yeah? hopefully, you've started talking with your wife about some of
this...:)
> I am not quite sure why im stressing so much over all of this. I
> really should be happy about the fact that BD chooses not to be very
> involved, shouldnt i? Well at least form my point of view. BD is there
> for SD, she knows hes her father, and he does take somewhat of an
> interest in her life outside his parenting. I think when it comes to
> "life choices", i mean stuff like school and whatnot, he takes the
> opinion of, my wife is her mom....she knows whats best. It may not be
> so much that BD doesnt care to get involved.
:D could part of your stress simply be that while you choose to enter into
this and you choose to help out, it was to *help*, not do Everything so BD
could duck out or so your DW could dump that role on you?
> My wife does seem to be pretty content with the situation, and i
> shouldnt push so much on the stupid little things. I also do alot of
> comparison to my own experiences, since its all i know about this kind
> of thing.
that's why i like support groups-those different perspectives are
great...and of course, a "get over it" from jane or a robotti "fuck you" is
priceless, too....:D
> Its only when BD tries to take more than he should, by
> taking advantage of my wifes generosity, that things go awry. However
> she does a great job of keeping him in line and knows alot more than i
> about how to handle him. Some of the things he does/wants are just
> annoying and petty though!
when's that mediation session again? :)
>
> He does get holidays, but he/we really only worry about the major
> ones, e.g xmas. Althoug he does make it an exremely difficult
> endevour! He wants her only for a few hours, but right in the middle
> of the day. Imagine our situation for holidays. We have my family,
> wifes family, BD's family is also split from divorce. So that makes a
> TON of family to try and get jessica around to. I think now we've
> settled on some kind of you get this day, we get this day kind of
> thing. Its just way too hectic any other way.
we were supposed to have alternate turkeydays (four day weekend), and
christmas break split on christmas day and lasted until new year's...one
side would get sunshine from when school let out until 2 (?) christmas day,
then the other side would get her from then until school resumed after new
year's...:)
> As far as CS goes...I did run te calculators, he only pays about half
> what they camne up with. He does pay for her ins, but only because he
> doesnt pay barely any extra for her on it. He also is not very good at
> handling payment to doctors with his and our money for major medical
> bills. My wife used to allow him to keep the CS payment to apply
> towards our half the balance. He would use that money to make that
> months payment and not pay any of his income. Those bills are above
> and beyond the CS payment, we split them by half, yet our half never
> really seemed to go down. Whatever the new balance was we still owed
> half? Problem is to move SD to our ins would be a bmw car payment!
they can settle that in the mediation, too....:) this is where W2 info comes
in handy...:)
> Not going to court is a good objective, its just tooo dang costly in
> time and money. However i do still want a legal type agreement that
> sets BD's boundries in some way. Using a mediator is what weve already
> figured, cost is 250, our cost of course. So we may end up letting it
> slide for wahile, since im the only one who seems to have a problem
> with the way things are.
*erm* ya'lls choice, but i've seen some nasty things happen when things
aren't in some type of agreement...what's your wife say?
> BD is the store manager where he works. He took the job for more money
> and more time for SD. He controls the schedule for himself and chooses
> to work everyweekend wether he has Sd or not.
or maybe not-i used to manage a store, and while i did have a pretty strong
influence on my schedule, i was required to work so many types of shifts per
week, and of course, there was the inevitable noshow or inspection or
whatever that required me to be there...
> Now that i have a better view of all of it, could some of you actually
> sum up what those things were?
*boggles* i bribe easy, tho'...*holds out coffee cup* :D
> Thanks for the enlightenment. I still have developed a dislike for BD,
> but i understand a little better of his posistion.
:)
Jess
Wendy
> But that's what I'm thinking, that we all do the dance in the way that
suits
> our relationship. Lee could choose school as a battleground by letting
her
> grades drop. I could choose the road trip by lobbying her father not to
let
> her go. That's just not convenient or emotionally satisfying or something
for
> us.
Okay, I've only just woken up, and I'm not sure my head is clear. I think
the last time we argued it was over her take a huge helping of something
then leaving most of it because she accepted a phone call from a friend
during a meal and I said her friends were rude to call at supper time and
she was rude to accept the call. She could have called back later rather
than interrupt supper. Yes, it is trivial, but somehow for me having an
occasional family meal is really important. The opportunity to be family
like seems to disappear except with the arguing and me cleaning up everyone
else's mess. It doesn't feel emotionally satisfying at all.
Wendy
Rupa Bose
>
> my dad made a comment couple of days ago that he really would've appreciated
> some kind of warning when i decided to be an adult instead of doing it
> overnight and taking him by surprise...;) i told him that it wasn't my fault
> he lost the owner's manual and to call management over it....*snickers*
>
> Jess
Your dad sounds wonderful.
What I want to know is what to do when the kids are phasing in and out
of adulthood.
(And I have a dark suspicion that I'm doing the same...)
Rupa
The Watsons
"Rupa Bose" <rkb...@pacific.net.sg> wrote in message
news:e5619372.04043...@posting.google.com...
> Your dad sounds wonderful.
we'll see...
> What I want to know is what to do when the kids are phasing in and out
> of adulthood.
> (And I have a dark suspicion that I'm doing the same...)
dunno, can't help you there...:)
Jess
nogoer
Its been a few days almost a week since the legal thing was at its
height. Much to my dismay, everything seems to have been dropped.
Although my father just went into a divorce so the focus has sort of
shifted.
BD has seemed to realize the importance of making his CS payments on
time, and we havent had to wait for his last check, which is good.
Hopefully it lasts :)
However, in spite of everyones good advice, hes back on my sh**list.
Sunday was the dropoff for his everyother weekend. He decided to make
a road trip for a family party. That isnt a big deal, this is. He
didnt bother to call my wife to say hell be an hour late until 30 mins
before pickup time. He wanted to visit longer or something about
eating dinner late?? My wife was on her way to run some errands before
getting SD.
She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
dont make a stand hell walk all over her. Our dinner plans were now
screwed up (530 to a 630 pickup), and he does it all the time. He is
never ever ontime always at least 15-20 late but usually more.
Well BD didnt like that, all a sudden he couldnt garuntee that SD
would be home by the newly agreed upon time. He started heeing and
hawing about having to come all the way down to drop SD off.
Well im sorry, you decided to stay late and be out of town all day. He
called waaay late in the day to metnion he was going to be late, then
expects us to go out of our way for his choices!
Ok i know im really whining again(its what i do best), but i truely
think its not too much to ask that he come the extra 10 mins to drop
her off at home. Especially when he was the one who decided to stay
longer. Oh he did say "i can stop eating dinner and leave now if yuo
want?" to my wife. Like shes going to have SD stop eating.
FYI-This is the third time i can remember this exact same thing has
happened. Im starting to think they really arent eating like he says.
Possibly trying to get DW to meet him at his house for p[ickup.
Vicki Robinson
>She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
>rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
>or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
>drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
>dont make a stand hell walk all over her. Our dinner plans were now
>screwed up (530 to a 630 pickup), and he does it all the time. He is
>never ever ontime always at least 15-20 late but usually more.
You know, I don't know if he's doing this expressly to control the
situation, or stir things up, or if for him these kinds of time
deadlines are more like guidelines than rules, but in any case, it
isn't your job to manage your wife's relationship with her ex. It
just isn't. If you have a problem with her agreeing to her ex's
changes in plan, then you should tell her how you feel about it, but
not on the grounds that if she doesn't stand up to him he'll walk
over her. If you object, then tell her how it affects your life.
My ex can be difficult. However, he and I have raised our daughters
together for 13 years, since we split. My husband also disapproved of
the way I let some things go, but *I* was the one who had to deal with
the problems when I didn't. I get to pick my own fights; I know my
ex, I know what is worth standing up for and what isn't. My husband
trying to tell me how to handle the man I used to be married to, whom
I've known for nearly 30 years now, bordered on silly. It's my
relationship, it's my decision how to handle it, it's my job to decide
what's worth making a stand over and what isn't. My husband can tell
me what's bothering him, and I factor that into my decisions, and I'll
be happy to *explain* why I handled something one way or another, but
I won't justify. I'm the one who takes the flack when I take a stand,
so I get to decide when I will do that.
Secondly, if this is a common problem, you have to understand that for
some people the exchange time is a target, not a requirement. On my
daughter's weekends with her dad, I take her to church on Sunday
mornings, and take her back to his place afterwards. That time is
understood to be about 1:00 (we have lunch first), but if it's 12:30
or 1:30, no one even notices. He's supposed to bring her back at 7:00
on Sunday night. That means between 6:00 and 8:00, basically. If
there's a specific reason that I *need* her home at 7:00 I tell him,
and he makes sure she's there, just as he tells me if he needs her by
a certain time on Sunday afternoon. If your biodad is the kind of guy
who operates on this kind of time ("See you at 2:00" means "between
lunch and dinner") then you can relax a little and realize that he's
not trying to yank your chain, he may be totally unaware of the
annoyance you feel, *especially* if your wife has always been ok with
it. In any case, it's her job to handle this. If it bugs you, tell
her why and ask her to negotiate with biodad for stricter times. She
may decide to honor your request, she may explain to you why she's
decided to let things go the way they are.
>Well im sorry, you decided to stay late and be out of town all day. He
>called waaay late in the day to metnion he was going to be late, then
>expects us to go out of our way for his choices!
But is this the way he and your wife have always handled it? If so,
can you blame him for thinking that this is the way they handle it?
>Ok i know im really whining again(its what i do best), but i truely
>think its not too much to ask that he come the extra 10 mins to drop
>her off at home. Especially when he was the one who decided to stay
>longer. Oh he did say "i can stop eating dinner and leave now if yuo
>want?" to my wife. Like shes going to have SD stop eating.
You may not think it's too much, I may not think it's too much, but
it's really what your wife and biodad think that counts.
>FYI-This is the third time i can remember this exact same thing has
>happened. Im starting to think they really arent eating like he says.
>Possibly trying to get DW to meet him at his house for p[ickup.
Or that time is a loose concept for him. It may be cultural, it may
be idiosyncratic. Time is very loose for me, too, I can be prompt
when I have to, but unless it's brought home to me that it's
necessary, I'll think nothing of calling someone to say I'll be late,
and I think nothing of other people calling me to say they'll be late,
too, when it's not an appointment that is time-sensitive.
My point is that this is your wife's sitation to handle. You
certainly should tell her how it affects you and impacts your life,
but if the primary problem for you is that she doesn't stand up for
herself, well, maybe you need to back off and trust her to know what's
worth fighting for.
Melissa
>Sunday was the dropoff for his everyother weekend. He decided to make
>a road trip for a family party. That isnt a big deal, this is. He
>didnt bother to call my wife to say hell be an hour late until 30 mins
>before pickup time. He wanted to visit longer or something about
>eating dinner late?? My wife was on her way to run some errands before
>getting SD.
>
That happens sometimes, especially when you're visiting family. Time slips by,
traffic is bad, the trip home takes a bit longer than expected etc.
>She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
>rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
>or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
>drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
>dont make a stand hell walk all over her.
It's *so* not your job to have DW take a stand though. You can take it up with
her if this disrupts your plans (and believe me as an SM I can relate) but it's
really between her and the ex.
>Well BD didnt like that, all a sudden he couldnt garuntee that SD
>would be home by the newly agreed upon time. He started heeing and
>hawing about having to come all the way down to drop SD off.
The fact that you couldn't see his reaction coming kind of amazes me.
>Ok i know im really whining again(its what i do best), but i truely
>think its not too much to ask that he come the extra 10 mins to drop
>her off at home. Especially when he was the one who decided to stay
>longer. Oh he did say "i can stop eating dinner and leave now if yuo
>want?" to my wife. Like shes going to have SD stop eating.
Maybe I'm nuts but I don't see what about this situation is worth putting him
back on yoru shit list. He was late, but it sounds like he usually is and you
can at least prepare for that. Yeah he maybe should have offered to drop her
off at your house but even that's not the end of the world. Life happens, and
I'm saying this as a person who is obsessive about being on time and others
being on time.
Love,
Melissa
Wendy
> However, in spite of everyones good advice, hes back on my sh**list.
> Sunday was the dropoff for his everyother weekend. He decided to make
> a road trip for a family party. That isnt a big deal, this is. He
> didnt bother to call my wife to say hell be an hour late until 30 mins
> before pickup time. He wanted to visit longer or something about
> eating dinner late?? My wife was on her way to run some errands before
> getting SD.
I'm with Vicki. Flexibility is important, whether it be drop off or
collection times, or whose weekend it is with children. In my experience,
if you are flexible they're more likely to be flexible in return. Yes,
there is a risk with some people that they'll take advantage, but you weigh
that up against trying to maintain a reasonable working relationship and
it's rarely worth getting your knickers in a twist over.
Wendy
Zipadee Doodah
> However, in spite of everyones good advice, hes back on my sh**list.
> Sunday was the dropoff for his everyother weekend. He decided to make
> a road trip for a family party. That isnt a big deal, this is. He
> didnt bother to call my wife to say hell be an hour late until 30 mins
> before pickup time. He wanted to visit longer or something about
> eating dinner late?? My wife was on her way to run some errands before
> getting SD.
>
> She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
> rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
> or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
> drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
> dont make a stand hell walk all over her. Our dinner plans were now
> screwed up (530 to a 630 pickup), and he does it all the time. He is
> never ever ontime always at least 15-20 late but usually more.
>
> Well BD didnt like that, all a sudden he couldnt garuntee that SD
> would be home by the newly agreed upon time. He started heeing and
> hawing about having to come all the way down to drop SD off.
>
> Well im sorry, you decided to stay late and be out of town all day. He
> called waaay late in the day to metnion he was going to be late, then
> expects us to go out of our way for his choices!
>
> happened. Im starting to think they really arent eating like he says.
> Possibly trying to get DW to meet him at his house for p[ickup.
I had a similar issue with my ex. I'm very much an "on time" person
and he seemed incapable of being on time for ME. He would almost
always be late bringing our kids back to me. Reading this group
back then (I first posted in 1996 with a different account name
but I mostly lurk now) I got the message "you can only change
how you deal with it". I KNOW that my ex is not an on-time
kind of guy so I eventually learned to plan for that.
My ex and I live 10 minutes apart. When he couldn't manage on-time
weekend evening dropoffs, we changed things so any end-of-weekend
dropoffs became keep them til Monday morning and take them to
school. Saturday night dropoffs turned into keep them until Sunday
and take them to Sunday school. He was much better at getting them
to school on time than getting them to me. That solved most of the
problem - it was great. This may not be a workable solution for you
but the idea is to find something to improve the situation without
relying on him to be on time.
For days when there was a dropoff that couldn't be done via school
we did various things:
1) If the time really mattered to me due to plans we had, my ex
and I planned that I would get them at the specific time.
2) If dropoff time came and went I called and asked for an
updated time
3) On a FEW occasions I said if they weren't at my house by
the PREVIOUSLY AGREED ON time (or within 15 minutes or so),
I was going out to do something for several hours.
I certainly don't mind being with my children but IF he was going
to be an hour (or 2 or 3) late, I resented sitting around waiting
when I could be out doing something else longer.
These days we just don't have this problem. The kids are teens
and we've been at this long enough.
If your current exchange time is not convenient - change it!
Or instead of meeting in the middle, change to the
parent who has them bringing them to the other parent. This
way, if you are waiting for them, at least you can be at home
instead of at the dropoff. I never cared for having one
parent pick them up at the other's house because that can be
awkward trying to get the kids to stop what they're doing and
leave especially when they're younger.
-- Z
nogoer
> In a previous article, nog...@charter.net (nogoer) said:
>
> >She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
> >rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
> >or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
> >drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
> >dont make a stand hell walk all over her. Our dinner plans were now
> >screwed up (530 to a 630 pickup), and he does it all the time. He is
> >never ever ontime always at least 15-20 late but usually more.
>
> so I get to decide when I will do that.
Two points that apply exactly. I did object, then we discussed it. Our
plans had explicitly been altered in a way they were no longer
possible. She knew she would take flak, but finally realized he was
taking too much, again!
> Secondly, if this is a common problem, you have to understand that for
> some people the exchange time is a target, not a requirement. On my
> daughter's weekends with her dad, I take her to church on Sunday
> mornings, and take her back to his place afterwards. That time is
> understood to be about 1:00 (we have lunch first), but if it's 12:30
> or 1:30, no one even notices. He's supposed to bring her back at 7:00
> on Sunday night. That means between 6:00 and 8:00, basically. If
> there's a specific reason that I *need* her home at 7:00 I tell him,
> and he makes sure she's there, just as he tells me if he needs her by
> a certain time on Sunday afternoon. If your biodad is the kind of guy
> who operates on this kind of time ("See you at 2:00" means "between
> lunch and dinner") then you can relax a little and realize that he's
> not trying to yank your chain, he may be totally unaware of the
> annoyance you feel, *especially* if your wife has always been ok with
> it. In any case, it's her job to handle this. If it bugs you, tell
> her why and ask her to negotiate with biodad for stricter times. She
> may decide to honor your request, she may explain to you why she's
> decided to let things go the way they are.
I wouldnt care about , exactly what time, if he just brought her home.
What i do care about is my wife sitting alone in a parking lot waiting
for him to finally show up. They agree to meet at a certain time at a
point somewhere between the two homes. She leaves with eaxtra time,
and he shows up whenever he feels like it. Never at the agreed time,
but usually not more than 20-30 minutes late.
Im sure hes not doing it intentionally, but he needs to realize that
his being late is affecting our lives. My wife being silently ok with
it just lets him think its not a problem. She often gets aggravated
and gives him a cold shoulder, but never actually says, stop being so
late your screwing up my day.
>
> >Well im sorry, you decided to stay late and be out of town all day. He
> >called waaay late in the day to metnion he was going to be late, then
> >expects us to go out of our way for his choices!
>
> But is this the way he and your wife have always handled it? If so,
> can you blame him for thinking that this is the way they handle it?
No i cant blame, it really comes down to my wife. However he should
have some sense of responsebility. He does know someone is waiting for
him. Shes just too nice to want to catch flak for saying anything. I
have a feeling shes developed this attitude because he always gives
her flak for anything that might put him out any. She got flk for
suggesting alternating dropoff points so she didnt always have to
drive so far.
> >Ok i know im really whining again(its what i do best), but i truely
> >think its not too much to ask that he come the extra 10 mins to drop
> >her off at home. Especially when he was the one who decided to stay
> >longer. Oh he did say "i can stop eating dinner and leave now if yuo
> >want?" to my wife. Like shes going to have SD stop eating.
>
> You may not think it's too much, I may not think it's too much, but
> it's really what your wife and biodad think that counts.
My wife does think its not too much, he does, apparently
> My point is that this is your wife's sitation to handle. You
> certainly should tell her how it affects you and impacts your life,
> but if the primary problem for you is that she doesn't stand up for
> herself, well, maybe you need to back off and trust her to know what's
> worth fighting for.
>
> Vicki
I know its her situation. Its also still a relatively new one for all
of us. Im realizing that i shouldnt push the little things. Shes
relizing that her blase attitude with him does truely affect me. Were
working it out together. The problem is BD has been allowed to do
these things for so long hes not very welcome to change. One way or
another things will start to even out. If we can do it between
ourselvs than great, if not the legal issue will come up again.
Well see what happens when we raise the issue of summer school costs.
SD needs to take at least one class to catch up this year. Its 300 for
a 4 week session, and i know hell think that should be part of his
normal 400 CS.
Those costs should be split at least 50/50 right?
Thanks vicki
nogoer
> That happens sometimes, especially when you're visiting family. Time slips by,
> traffic is bad, the trip home takes a bit longer than expected etc.
Yeah i understand things happen and people get late. Calling so late
that my wife has already left for the pickup is rude. He knows the
agreed time, he knows how long it takes to get there. Doing it once is
fine, doing it three times in a few month period is blacklistable.
> >She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
> >rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
> >or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
> >drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
> >dont make a stand hell walk all over her.
>
> It's *so* not your job to have DW take a stand though.
I know its not, and i kind of explained it wrong. She called him back
after we discussed it and i vioced my objection. She realized he
really did put us out this time. I didnt want to eat a rushed dinner,
or wait an extra hour and a half to pick something up. So she called
him back and inspite of his grief got him to being her home so we
could continue our plans in some form.
>
>
> >Well BD didnt like that, all a sudden he couldnt garuntee that SD
> >would be home by the newly agreed upon time. He started heeing and
> >hawing about having to come all the way down to drop SD off.
>
> The fact that you couldn't see his reaction coming kind of amazes me.
Oh i saw it coming! I was just strongly under the opinion, him coming
an extra 10 mins because he decided to stay an extra hour, was
something worth fighting for.
You cant just take and take, sometimes you have to give a little too.
He just doesnt get that concept.
> Maybe I'm nuts but I don't see what about this situation is worth putting him
> back on yoru shit list. He was late, but it sounds like he usually is and you
> can at least prepare for that. Yeah he maybe should have offered to drop her
> off at your house but even that's not the end of the world. Life happens, and
> I'm saying this as a person who is obsessive about being on time and others
> being on time.
> Love,
> Melissa
I guess im being a bit of a hard ass huh? He does so many stupid
things that pout us out in one way or another that its easy for him to
get on my shitlist. Its difficult to prepare for him being late. The
one time my wife shows up later will be the one time hes ontime. I can
see the bitching form him nopwif that ever happened. He would be
furious if he had to wait.
Do you think it would be out of line if my wife and i did a little
experiment and she showed up late? Then just apologized and took the
way high road afterwords? I would like to see his reaction if he had
to wait.
Oh he didnt offer to bring her home because its not in his personality
to do that. Even though he would be ecstatic to have my wife pickup at
his condo.
C'est la Vie!
nogoer
Ok so im blowing things out of proportion again. Fortunately my wife
knows how to handle me and BD pretty dam well. ALso im fortunate
enough to be in the posisitoon where i dont have to be flexable, i
just dont get anywhere if im not. BD does though, my wife is extremely
flexible with him. Deosnt matter where or when, what time , ect.. She
just doesnt make a big deal of any of it. Yes ive told her my
objections to that attitude.
I understand her desire to reduce friction adn try to eliminate
problems, but come on. There hgas to be something worth takling a
stand over?
I dont know maybe i should just keep my mouth shut. I dont seem to get
anywhere with anyone, when it has anything to do with being a SF.
Melissa
>fine, doing it three times in a few month period is blacklistable.
Blacklistable? See I'm having trouble understanding why you're being so
overdramatic about this.
>Oh i saw it coming! I was just strongly under the opinion, him coming
>an extra 10 mins because he decided to stay an extra hour, was
>something worth fighting for.
Again with the drama. You're seeing 10 minutes as something worth *fighting*
for. It must be nice to have so much spare time on yoru hands.
>He does so many stupid
>things that pout us out in one way or another that its easy for him to
>get on my shitlist
Ok but you're putting him on your "shitlist". That's your issue, and not his.
You are giving this guy so much more power over your life than is necessary.
>Its difficult to prepare for him being late.
See I find that hard to believe. Actually I think it's BS. It sounds like his
tardiness is pretty darn consistant. I get that you feel you shouldn't have to
plan, but that doesn't mean that you can't.
Love,
Melissa
rebecca
> anywhere with anyone, when it has anything to do with being a SF.
well, yes and no. Listen, don't confuse keeping your mouth shut with not
having the right to be upset/frustrated. You feel what you feel. You just
may have to accept that you can't fix whatever you see as the problem.
Being late drives me nuts too, and it was a huge problem with us for a long
time. But at the end of the day, you just can't _make_ them do anything.
I liked the idea of changing the pick-up approach, if it isn't working for
your wife and she's just not saying so, maybe that's something to try. If
it is working for your wife, then I would suggest, at least in your own
head, pretending the transfer is going to happen an hour later than it does
and not making any plans for that time. Then you don't miss stuff/have to
change stuff.
rebecca
jane
>She told him fine, meet you in one hour, then called me. I told her
>rather than futzing around, half an hour from home, for another hour
>or more, she should come home. Then she should call him and have him
>drop her off at home. Well DW sort of made a fuss about it, but if you
>dont make a stand hell walk all over her. Our dinner plans were now
>screwed up (530 to a 630 pickup), and he does it all the time. He is
>never ever ontime always at least 15-20 late but usually more.
>
>Well BD didnt like that, all a sudden he couldnt garuntee that SD
>would be home by the newly agreed upon time. He started heeing and
>hawing about having to come all the way down to drop SD off.
>
>Well im sorry, you decided to stay late and be out of town all day.
Look, you've got to figure out how to stay out of this stuff. They were FINE
until you put your 2 cents in. The kids's parents figured out a way to handle
the situation. Then you, you, you made it into a drama.
> He
>called waaay late in the day to metnion he was going to be late, then
>expects us to go out of our way for his choices!
I'm not seeing the "us" here. If your DW had called you to tell you that you
were to wait around an hour, I could see your annoyance. You would have been
fine with me if you refused that.
Why exactly did your wife call? Did she ask you for advice on handling the
situation? Because if she did, you might want to ask her not to; you're coming
off as the bad guy. If she just called to say that she'd be late, the correct
response was, "Okay, honey, I love you. See you when you get home."
And yes, I am saying that you're supposed to sit by and do nothing while that
asshole jerks your wife around and disrupts your evening plans.
>
>Ok i know im really whining again(its what i do best), but i truely
>think its not too much to ask that he come the extra 10 mins to drop
>her off at home.
No, it is not too much to ask. It was a perfectly reasonable request.
However, he refused that request. He can do that. He can do all kinds of
stuff that you don't want him to. He can show up late or not at all; he can
argue with DW; he can badmouth you to the kids; he can pay CS when it's
convenient for him.
This really is the meat and potatoes of this group, you know. People come
frustrated and steaming and hang around for a couple of years until they either
let it go or leave their mates. You cannot define the relationship between
your mate and her ex. You cannot make them act the way you want them to.
Sure, it's frustrating. Come and vent. But eventually you might want to stop
banging your head against that wall too.
jane
>From: nog...@charter.net (nogoer)
The Watsons
> problems, but come on. There hgas to be something worth takling a
> stand over?
sure-if he brings her back a day late, then you can have issues...don't
sweat the ten minutes, and next time, plan dinner or something important a
few hours earlier...you know he's not going to be on time, so stop trying to
find ways to force him to it....all it's going to do is piss him off,
frustrate your wife and get you all bent out of shape too...
> I dont know maybe i should just keep my mouth shut. I dont seem to get
> anywhere with anyone, when it has anything to do with being a SF.
there's a reason for that...i think the article is buried in my coffee cup,
but basically, stepfamilies have somewhere around a hundred more issues than
more "traditional" families to work with, and it's things exactly like
this...give yourself some credit-it's not like there's a handbook or roadmap
or anything, you're feeling your way around as much as anyone else in
this...and that's where groups like this come in...:)
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>asshole jerks your wife around and disrupts your evening plans.
Malarkey. IMO, you should just go about your planned events without her. If
she wants to go along with you, then she will work out something with the
father so that the kids are returned on time. If she doesn't, at least you are
not missing your activity. That would be what I would do.
~~Geri~~
You only need two tools: WD-40 and Duct Tape; If it doesn't move and should,
use the WD-40; If it shouldn't move and does, use the Duct Tape.
The Watsons
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040505150203...@mb-m22.aol.com...
> Malarkey. IMO, you should just go about your planned events without her.
If
> she wants to go along with you, then she will work out something with the
> father so that the kids are returned on time. If she doesn't, at least
you are
> not missing your activity. That would be what I would do.
in this case, i think they'd planned on going out to dinner together...i
just wouldn't plan anything close to the exchange times..
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>you are
>> not missing your activity. That would be what I would do.
>
>in this case, i think they'd planned on going out to dinner together...i
>just wouldn't plan anything close to the exchange times..
I have found that going without the person that is continuously late, no matter
what the reason, is an excellent cure for the problem. It only takes a couple
of times. If I were that husband, I would leave for the restaurant at the time
we planned.
rebecca
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
> >
> >in this case, i think they'd planned on going out to dinner together...i
> >just wouldn't plan anything close to the exchange times..
>
> I have found that going without the person that is continuously late, no
matter
> what the reason, is an excellent cure for the problem. It only takes a
couple
> of times. If I were that husband, I would leave for the restaurant at the
time
> we planned.
Yep, gotta say I'm with Geri on this one. Yes, not planning things around
exchanges would be one way to avoid the problem coming up, but once it comes
up, I'd go to dinner by myself or with a friend. I've had this problem with
other people before and it worked both times to clear the problem right up.
rebecca
Vicki Robinson
>>in this case, i think they'd planned on going out to dinner together...i
>>just wouldn't plan anything close to the exchange times..
>
>I have found that going without the person that is continuously late, no matter
>what the reason, is an excellent cure for the problem. It only takes a couple
>of times. If I were that husband, I would leave for the restaurant at the time
>we planned.
The problem is that it's the ex-husband who's continuously late, not
the wife. So, to leave without her seems unnecessarily aggressive.
There's an element of "Your concerns don't concern me; I don't care
how hard this might be for you, all I want is not to be bothered."
It's not within her control to force the ex to show up in time.
I think figuring out a way to pre-empt the problems together might be
the way to go. Instead of "My way, or fuck you" they can figure out
something that addresses both person's concerns.
YMMV.