"Posterchild for Tactlessness" strikes again...
Tracey
<sigh> I *knew* I shouldn't have said anything. I *did*.
So why did I? Because I like turmoil? I dunno.
So, here's the scoop. The phone rings last night about 5pm.
DH answers. The one side of the conversation that I hear is:
'Hello.'
'What?!?!?!'
'What happened?'
'This morning?!?!?! Why didn't you call me then?'
'Why?'
'WHY?'
'WHY?"
He hangs up the phone and tells me 'I don't believe this. She
hung up on me!' Then tells me that my SS (15yo and lives in
CO) had been in a car accident on his way to school, was in
critical condition and his ex-wife had just hung up on him with
only that information. So, we spend the next 10-15 minutes
trying to phone his parents to see what *they* know, finally
get through and get the scoop <also DH has a bit of a disa-
greement with his parents over the hanging up/why she had
hung up>, call the hospital and get some info, and calls the
oldest two kids in NY to tell them what's happening.
So, after all of that, DH has settled down a bit and starts in
on the 'I can't believe she hung up on me. What a b****!'
Now, a tactful person would have just shut their mouth and
nodded. I *know* he's upset, he's worried, he doesn't feel
as if he *really* knows what's going on, etc. But, then, we
all know *I'm* not a tactful person. After a couple of minutes
of him bitching about his ex, he looked at me and said 'What?'
I guess my face was being 'tactless' too. I tried to say nothing,
but he insisted. 'What, don't you think I have a right to be angry
that she hung up on me?' So I told him <paraphrased> 'Yes, I
think you have a right to be angry she hung up on you and didn't
give you the information you needed, but you also were getting
loud and angry, too, so I can see why *she* would hang up
on you. If it were me, I would have said 'Just shut the f*** up
and let me give you the information. If you want to yell at me,
yell at me tomorrow, but not right now because I just don't
*need* that right now!' *I* wouldn't have hung up on you,
but I can see why *she* did.' So, now he's upset about his
son and he's upset with me because I didn't back him up on
his anger with his ex <sigh>.
Anyway, he should be able to talk to SS today and *hopefully*
get some more information on just exactly what is happening.
Fracture<?>s in L3-L4 vertebrae, swelling and he'll be in a
back brace today. Some talk about probable surgery at some
point <to glue/fuse the fractures???> but nothing definite. I just
hope DH can put the anger at not being called sooner aside
until he gets the information he needs/wants.
Thanks for all of the good thoughts and all. SS is alert and has
feeling and movement in his legs so <crossed fingers> there isn't
any problems there and only had one cut on his arm for other
injuries (they hit a deer in a Jeep Cherokee, rolled a couple of
times and neither one were wearing seatbelts.>
--
Tracey
"Commitment isn't a chore. It's a
challenge."
--Solomon Short--
Anne Robotti
sorry, but she had to figure he was going to freak out no
matter when she called him, and he needs and deserves the
information. To me, it's just another example of "S/he who has
the child has the power, and don't you dare forget it."
Anne
Tracey
Now, see, that's why he's upset. He's thinking what
*you're* thinking, that I think she was justified in
hanging up on him. I don't. BUT, at the same time,
I know *why* she did it, because he was getting
'loud'. Instead of cutting him off or saying 'Look,
just hold on a minute' and explaining why she hadn't
called earlier, she hung up, which is her way of
dealing with these sorts of situations. Avoid it at
all cost, hang up, ignore it, refuse to get embroiled
in an argument.
I *do* think he was 'justified' in being angry at not
being called earlier, but, at the same time, all showing
his anger *at that time* did was to keep him from
getting the information.
ELD
predict her reaction if he overreacted?
I can understand that, but Anne's right, she shouldn't have hung up on
him, even if it's in her nature to react that way, because this is the
kid's father and he should know everything about this accident that she
does.
Anne Robotti
Was that what it sounded like I thought? I didn't think that
for a minute, in fact I think your original post pretty
clearly spelled out what you thought. *You* wouldn't have done
it, you could just see the other side without necessarily
agreeing with it. These kinds of situations where one parent
does this kind of thing just make me SO crazy. They don't have
to see the needs or rights of the other parent because the child
is in their "possession" and that gives them all the cards. She
can hang up on him all day today if she wants, what's to stop
her? A judge? I wish you could hear me laughing at *that!*
Anne
Vicki Robinson
:I think there's *no* excuse for her hanging up on him. I'm
:sorry, but she had to figure he was going to freak out no
:matter when she called him, and he needs and deserves the
:information. To me, it's just another example of "S/he who has
:the child has the power, and don't you dare forget it."
:
There's freaking, and there's freaking. There's freaking because your
child is badly injured and you're shocked and afraid, and there's
freaking because your child is badly injured and dammit, why was he
out in that car/at that time/in that weather, why the hell didn't you
get called within 5 minutes of it happening, etc, and you're shocked
and afraid.
I don't know Tracey's DH or his ex, but I can speak from my own
experience, and I'd hang up if my ex started getting loud at me at
that point. If I heard blame and accusation in his voice, my position
would be that I don't need to deal with it. If he can't control
himself long enough to get the information without flying off the
handle, then to heck with 'im. I have better things to worry about
than standing around for 15 mintues on a pay phone in the emergency
room getting yelled at long-distance.
I don't know if Tracey's dh is the blaming type, but if his ex
perceives him as the blaming type, why should she put herself in the
line of fire? It's her responsibility to inform him of the accident,
but if he can't control his response, why should she have to take it,
on top of the worry and fear that she's already feeling for her son?
If she thought that he was going off on her when she was trying to let
him know what was going on, then I can understand it.
Vicki
--
Does it make any sense to say that I decompensate between
paradigms? Probably not. -Jane Lawrence
Tracey
point of view. I've really tried over the past few years
to get DH to at least *try* to look at it from his ex's
side and, at the same time, I sometimes get a little
frustrated because I'm seen as defending her or her
actions when I'm really *not*, you know? And,
then, of course, I get pissed off because I'm *feeling*
as if I'm defending her actions. Argh!!!
It reminds me of when my sister died. My father has
two sisters he hasn't spoken to in years and, when
Deb died, not a word from either of them. If there
had been *any* chance of them ever mending the
fences, their silence at that time totally ruined that.
I find it very, very sad that, even at crises, some
people just cannot forget about all of that stupid
stuff for a little while and deal with the bad times.
And, Anne, it seems like you're right on in your
analysis of his ex. She's the one with the information,
and so DH has to act just the way she wants or she
won't give it to him. It's a replay of the two years
where we didn't really know what was happening
with my oldest SS other than what the younger two
told us.
Anne Robotti
guessing that you would *not* hang up the second you heard blame
or accusation in his voice. I'm guessing you would say calmly and
clearly, "We can talk about all this later. Do you want the information
or should I hang up and get back to our son?" Because people's worst
character traits are going to come out in times of crisis, and I think
you would give him a chance to rethink his freakout before you left him
hanging.
Anne
Cat
*sigh*
Tracey, Tracey, Tracey...
You're human, dear. You reacted to the tension and said something that
he didn't like. I can relate.
If you have the same type of "I can take out my frustrations on you but
you can't comment on it" bu!!$h!t that I deal with ... I can understand
your reaction.
IMHO - You're entitled to be tactless at times of stress. We
frequently say things different than we would if we were calm. It
sounds like a stressful situation happened and that you reacted to the
stress.
BTW - you didn't say who was driving ... if SS is only 15 then what
happened? ALso - IMHO not wearing seat belts is not the smartest thing
to do...
Be easy on yourself ...
HUGS!
--
Cat
"The best friend is likely to acquire the best wife, because a good
marriage is based on the talent for friendship." - Friedrich Nietzsche
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Before you buy.
Tracey
The 'freaking' that he did was because she wouldn't tell him why
it took so long for her to call him. (The accident happened on
the way to school, we didn't get the phone call until 5pm our
time. 10 or 11 hours later.) He was also freaking, I suspect,
because at that time, all he knew was his son was in 'critical
condition' and the accident had happened that morning and
she wouldn't say *why* it took her that long to call. Not
trying to justify him getting loud, just explaining. I *think* at
that point, when he didn't know what condition his son was
*really* in, he was thinking that he was getting ready to die
and he could have already been at the hospital, if she had
just called. At least, that's what was going through *my*
head until we heard that his condition isn't life-threatening.
--
Tracey
"Health is merely the slowest possible
way you can die."
--Solomon Short--
Tracey
>you can't comment on it" bu!!$h!t that I deal with ... I can understand
>your reaction.
Generally, I only get this reaction from him when it deals with his ex.
Any sort of attempt on my part to try to see another way to handle
things is seen as an attempt to defend her.
>IMHO - You're entitled to be tactless at times of stress. We
>frequently say things different than we would if we were calm. It
>sounds like a stressful situation happened and that you reacted to the
>stress.
Thanks! I sure do that enough!
>BTW - you didn't say who was driving ... if SS is only 15 then what
>happened? ALso - IMHO not wearing seat belts is not the smartest thing
>to do...
SS wasn't driving, another kid was. Could have been a friend, or it
could
have been his step-brother. Not really sure. No, not wearing seat belts
probably wasn't a good idea, but not much *we* can do about it.
Actually,
at that age, not much anyone can do about it.
Thanks, Cat!
Cindy Martin
an in-ground pool with a slide. Tori was having an absolute blast going up
the slide so I could catch her in the water. Third time going up the slide,
she slipped, fell on the concrete, landing on her head and bouncing onto her
shoulder. Everybody's freaking out because this is the first time we've met
these people.
An hour or so later I call whatshisname to let him know what's happened.
We've calmed down, she's eaten and kept it in her stomach, she's back to
playing in the pool and I know she's going to be fine (and I can tell him
what happened without bursting into tears because I still see her landing on
the concrete).
He wants to know why I haven't taken her to the ER. I tell him that it's
not that bad, there's nothing to stitch up, and what can be bandaged, has
been bandaged. I was just calling to let him know what happened and to see
IF he wanted us to come home so he could see for himself. Nope, we don't
have to hurry home.
It takes me forever to calm down. When a DFS worker showed up at our
doorstep at 5 p.m. on a Friday afternoon, I couldn't call my parents to tell
them about it until Sunday afternoon.
Would I have waited so long? Maybe. Depending on how far away you lived
from the hospital, what good would it have done to call you before I knew
how he was going to be? So you could pace in the waiting room too? Then
they'd have two worn out strips of carpet instead of just one.
If I thought it was truly serious and the child may not make it. Yes, I'd be
on the phone, probably calling collect through the operator because I
wouldn't be able to remember the phone number (it's a curse of being a
ditz).
Would I hang up on him? Maybe, maybe not. Guess it depends on how many
times I'd already told him to calm down and let me finish.
Everyone handles stress differently. Everyone reacts differently. I'm one
of those people who just want to be left alone. When there's a death in
the family, I'll go somewhere and bawl my eyes out -- but don't think you're
going to console me. I don't want you touching me while I deal with my
emotions.
Maybe she didn't think she could handle being at the hospital with both of
you.
But, look at it like this, at least she called. That's more than some of
the BP's around this newsgroup may have done. At least he heard about it
instead of just getting a bill to pay for it (and didn't that actually
happen to someone?).
Cindy
jane lawrence
>
> >I think there's *no* excuse for her hanging up on him.
>
> *you're* thinking, that I think she was justified in
I do. I went through a very similar conversation with my ex
about my daughter. I may have hung up on him. I don't
remember. Ordinarily, I'd try something else first, but when I
was so upset myself about my daughter, I was weary. You know
how sometimes you can't take one more thing? Well, I was just
as worried and anxious as he was, but I'd been that way for
hours. I was so afraid she was going to die. You're standing at
a pay phone and you don't want to believe it's true, and then
when you force yourself to say it out loud and make it true, you
just want him to make it better and tell you your baby will be
okay. It's so horrible to watch your child lie there and not be
able to help her. If anyone in the world should be able to
understand, it should be him. And there he was yelling and
badgering me and making it worse. I just wanted him to shut up,
shut up, shut up and listen to me and tell me our baby would be
okay.
> BUT, at the same time,
> I know *why* she did it, because he was getting
> 'loud'. Instead of cutting him off or saying 'Look,
> just hold on a minute' and explaining why she hadn't
> called earlier, she hung up, which is her way of
> dealing with these sorts of situations. Avoid it at
> all cost, hang up, ignore it, refuse to get embroiled
> in an argument.
>
> I *do* think he was 'justified' in being angry at not
> being called earlier, but, at the same time, all showing
> his anger *at that time* did was to keep him from
> getting the information.
>
>
In the situation I am talking about, I couldn't have called my
ex right away, and that wasn't what he was yelling about.
However, I completely understand the not calling right away. In
fact, in the dozen or so times the kids have been to the
hospital over the years, we have never once gotten in touch with
the other Bioparent until the situation was stabilized. None of
us. It's so frantic. I can never think straight.
When my ex and I were living in the same town, I'd just couldn't
get in touch with him. Then, I didn't want to leave a message
saying we were at the hospital because he'd just go running out
the door and wouldn't listen for other messages. If you're
living in another state, I think it's just cruel to call before
you have some idea how serious it is. It would be for my ex,
anyway. Pieces of him would just die the whole time.
jane lawrence
>
> If the situation were reversed.. well I would call her IMMEDIATELY! as
> I have done with smaller issues that have come up - like the marker on
> the penis. I rang her within 20 mins of finding it - but she was
> asleep.
But you can't really know until you've been there. I'm great
about calling my ex with things - I just called him this morning
because BD brought home a flunk slip last night. The first
thing I say with report cards and such is, "Go call your dad."
When it comes to major medical problems, it's a whole different
story.
jane
P.S. Triage nurses here don't make calls.
Boatinlady
long for her to call him. (The accident happened on
>the way to school, we didn't get the phone call until 5pm our time. 10 or 11
hours later.) >>>
Tracey,
Well, IMHO, BM was WRONG by not calling your dh till 10 or 11 hrs AFTER the
accident!!!!!! Your dh had a right to know!
Whether or not he could go to the hospital is not the point. It's HIS son as
well, and BM should have informed him as soon as possible (10-11 hrs later is
NOT asap!!)
I'm taking into consideration that your ss was in CCU, and no one really knew
the extent of the injuries untill the swelling went down, and that a couple of
vertebrae had been damaged.
I can certainly understand how your dh felt if I put myself in his place!!!
Pat
mari...@my-deja.com
hmm, i'm not sure if i would have hung up or not. i am sure that my ex would
hang up on me, however. he likes to do that. btw, i've been deemed one of the
easiest exs to get along with so this really pisses me off. i've always
called at the first available chance if something happened. bd used to get
these outrageous fevers when she was an infant. always in the night or on the
weekend. numerous trips to the ER. i always called asap when we were together
and i think i would do the same now. heck, i call him when something really
good happens to her as well. i guess i would want that consideration so i
give it. unfortunately, i don't always get it in return but that's no reason
for me to act like him. i'll take the higher road as often as possible. i,
too, would say tactless crap in the face of adversity. people freak under
stress, he really couldve waited til a later date to ream her for not calling
asap. it was already done and over, the 10hrs, that is. anne, you're right,
the one with the child is the one with the power. i don't abuse this fact but
deep down , i know i have the ace card. you would know this too if you ever
split from your DH. and i don't know you very well online and not at all
offline but......i do know that you'd be the one with the power and with the
children.:D marie
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
First off, everyone.. I think you're all missing a very important
point here.. SS was in hospital, and at some point, the nurses
possibly might have asked BM "Is there anyone you want us to call?" -
well they usually do here.. BM did not have to call her ex.. she could
have asked a lot of other people to do it for her. I'm sure she might
have called other family and or friends well before she called ex..
but while on the phone to them, she could have said "I don't feel
like/want to/cant handle ringing ex at the moment, so could you do it
for me?" She could have asked the nurses to do so, and I am sure they
would have been happy to help. Even if they had been busy and not able
to do it right there and then, there is usually some kind of staff
member around who the job would have been passed onto, IMO. A ward
clerk, perhaps?
I could understand one, two, even three hours delay in getting in
contact with the child's father.. but six, seven, eight or more is
just plain bullshit, IMO. I can well understand why DH got so "loud" -
what kind of reaction did she expect?
I could be wrong, but it sounds to me like BM just put off that
phonecall because she knew it would be unpleasant. Of course, the
longer she put it off, the more unpleasant the task was going to be.
She might have been confused, worried and all the rest of it, but I am
sure she would have called *someone* during the first couple of hours
who would have called DH to let him know as a favour to BM in a time
of need.
Just my opinion..
Mel
---------------------------------------------------
Melissa Torresan
sm...@crosswinds.net
---------------------------------------------------
ELD
hard enough time attending to what they absolutely need to, that they
certainly would not have time to make a call for me, or even time to ask
me if there was someone I wanted to call.
Also, because of the short staffing, it would be impossible to find
someone who was available to sit and make phone calls for the relatives
of the patients. I think, for practical, legal and emotional purposes
things like these phone calls are best left to the BM to make.
But, I do think it is entirely possible to think maybe she waited so
long because she knew it would be scary and was putting it off. Not
thinking ahead at how the "putting off" would affect the situation, but
who thinks ahead when their son is in ICU?!
I honestly have no idea how I would have reacting in anyone shoes,
because I have truly never been in a similar situation.
Geri and Brian
>someone who was available to sit and make phone calls for the relatives
>of the patients
In CA, the nurse/patient ratio is the worst in the United States. (Meaning
more patients per one nurse.) In fact, there is pending legislation to
possibly remedy this, but it is being strenuosly objected to by the insurance
and hospital corporations who care less for quality of care than the minimum
for the dollar.
(One of my hot buttons.)
Geri
(Chip out the iceberg to reply.)
~~~~~~~~~~
"To be natural is such a very difficult pose to keep up."
Geri and Brian
and the patient's family member provided the phone number of whomever they
wanted called, I would try to make the call, when I had the time.
Melissa Torresan
>Mel, around here Hospitals are shortstaffed and overworked. They have a
>hard enough time attending to what they absolutely need to, that they
>certainly would not have time to make a call for me, or even time to ask
>me if there was someone I wanted to call.
Hospitals here are both of those things, too.. yet whenever I have
gone to the emergency department, the triage nurse *always* asks if
she can call anyone for me. Perhaps its different in ICU, but I'd
think it would be even more important in that particular ward. I'm
just really horrified at the idea that it took so long for BM to get
around to calling DH.
>Also, because of the short staffing, it would be impossible to find
>someone who was available to sit and make phone calls for the relatives
>of the patients. I think, for practical, legal and emotional purposes
>things like these phone calls are best left to the BM to make.
That is true.. It's just very unfortunate that this particular BM left
it so long.. or that she could not or did not want to find one friend
or relative that would make that call for her.
>But, I do think it is entirely possible to think maybe she waited so
>long because she knew it would be scary and was putting it off. Not
>thinking ahead at how the "putting off" would affect the situation, but
>who thinks ahead when their son is in ICU?!
Well, I think if I were in her situation, I might well put off that
call, too.. but then I would also think that the kid's father had just
as much right to know about the situation and be there as I did. I'd
also think that it is a hell of a lot to go through, and having
someone else there who cares as much for the child as I do and is
going through the same thing might take a little of the load off
myself.. but I guess thats a selfish way to look at it?
>I honestly have no idea how I would have reacting in anyone shoes,
>because I have truly never been in a similar situation.
Well, all I can say, if this happened to us, and BM left it this long
to call, I would find it very difficult to remain "amicable" with her.
In fact, I'd probably do my nut.. but that's just me..
If the situation were reversed.. well I would call her IMMEDIATELY! as
I have done with smaller issues that have come up - like the marker on
the penis. I rang her within 20 mins of finding it - but she was
asleep. I have to admit, we do not seem to be getting the same kind of
treatment in return at all - when SK had burning wees last weekend on
the day we went to pick him up, she did not tell us about it, and told
SK not to tell us, either. All that does is make SO and I angry - what
is the point of it all? Is she trying to push us to snapping point? I
just don't get it..
Mel
Tracey
My stupid newsreader is acting up. Won't let me cut and paste or
put any of the original posts in replies, so I'll try to do this so it's
understandable without having what I'm responding to in here.
Erin, no, I don't think he necessarily should have been able to
predict her reaction, but, at the same time, I think that *both*
of them overreacted. Yes, it was a situation where overreaction
was almost assuredly going to happen, but neither one of them
seem to be able to ignore *anything* and get to the heart of
the issue. Drives me NUTS!!
Jane, I still don't think she was justified for hanging up on him.
I also don't think *he* was justified in getting loud. Do I under-
stand *why* both of them reacted the way they did? Yes, I
do. Both of them have held in so much crap for so many years
that any interaction between them almost immediately gets
hostile. I *know* that she's not always like that. Believe me.
If there's one person in this world that she *could* be totally,
immediately, and overtly hostile towards, it's probably me, and
she's not. On the few occasions we have met or talked, she's
always been polite, even chatty, so I know it's not outside of
her capabilities to not be overtly hostile to someone she doesn't
like. For some reason, she just can't do that with DH. And he's
the same way.
As far as the timing of the call, I've been in a few emergency
situations where I've been very involved with the person and
going nuts about how they were, what their condition was,
and 'OMIGOD, are they going to die?' and in *all* of those
situations, I have never seen it be 10 hours before there was a
time when I couldn't have called someone. In fact, the *worse*
the condition, it usually means you have *more* time because
you're usually not allowed to be there. Did I *want* to make
the call? No, I would have given anything to not have had to
call mothers/fathers/grandmothers/sisters/whoever, but none
of those people I was with at the emergency room was with-
out someone else who cared for them just as much as *I*
did and who deserved to know what was going on.
Jane, I have to say that I don't understand why you would
wait until the situation was stabilized before calling some-
one else. And maybe it's because I don't know the situations
involved. How did *you* react when told after the fact
and how did your ex react when told after the fact? And I
don't mean outwardly, I mean how did you feel about it?
Did you not care that you didn't know what was going on
until it was all over with? Did your ex not care? I haven't
had to deal with my biokids being at their father's and some-
thing happening, but our son has spent quite a bit of time
with my parents and there have been a couple of times
when things have been going on and my mother kept me
informed the whole way. I think if I had found out waaayyy
after the fact that my child had been in the hospital and I
didn't know it until everything was stable or that he had
been hurt and my mother had taken it upon herself to keep
me out of the loop for *whatever* reason, I would have
been *very* pissed and probably would have done every-
thing I could to make sure it never happened again (which,
in my mother's case, would have been to not let him stay
there by himself.) Again, I don't know what situations you
all have went through, but not informing the child's other
parent ASAP (and, I'm sorry, 10 hours later is not ASAP)
after a serious accident is indicative of a total disregard of
the other parents' place in the child's life.
Now, to give her her due, DH WAS the first person she
called and, after she hung up, she called *his* parents and
asked them to call him with the info. She hadn't called my
other stepkids, she hadn't called her parents (in fact, she
isn't going to tell her parents until it's 'all over with', whatever
that entails for her.) So, while I can say that she did call him
first and give her credit for that, at the same time this is just
all a part of a pattern that, with the delayed notification the
other day, caused my husband to flip his lid.
Right off the top of my head, I can think of, oh, 10 times
when something has happened that *should* have been dis-
cussed with my DH that have either been left for someone
else to talk to DH about it (i.e., the kids themselves, a doctor,
or, in one memorable instance, her boyfriend) or just totally
ignored and we've heard about it through some offhand
remark. This is the *first* time she has called directly to tell
DH about a crisis or situation concerning the kids. I *think*
she's called two or three times about money issues, but,
other than that, there has been nothing I can recall that can
even come close to attempting to go along with legal joint
custody or even giving a show of attempting it. Maybe
*I'm* living in a dream world, but if I found one of my
son's stash of pot, I'm pretty sure I would discuss that
with his father. If another son left college and moved in
with his aunt, I also think I would make sure that his father
knew that. If my daughter was driving me nuts and I threw
her out of the house, I think I would call her father and try
to explain just exactly why I did what I did. He might not
accept my reasons, he might think I handled it wrong, we
might even get in an argument about it, but he would get
the information at the very least.
So, while this latest thing with SS's accident is/was the
'breaking point' with my husband, it's just basically the
latest in a whole line of things that his ex has done or
failed to do over the past 9-10 years. It's a whole 'You're
only a part of the kids' lives under my sufferance because
I'm the holder of all info and if I don't want you involved,
you will NOT be involved and if I don't want to talk to
you about something, I will NOT talk to you about it and
you're no more important in *my* kids' lives than I let
you be' sort of attitude that is old.
jane lawrence
>
> I should tack on to my previous post, however, if I were caring for a patient
> and the patient's family member provided the phone number of whomever they
> wanted called, I would try to make the call, when I had the time.
Geri,
You've been in peds for a long time. I don't know about the
NICU particularly, but haven't you noticed that parents can be
temporarily insane? I mean, Tracey's DH yelling
"Why...why....why?" and BM hanging up the phone are nothing.
Some parents seem to be in shock; others are hysterical; a few
seem to lose their ability to understand English. Do you know
what I'm talking about?
jane
Geri and Brian
>NICU particularly, but haven't you noticed that parents can be
>temporarily insane? I mean, Tracey's DH yelling
>"Why...why....why?" and BM hanging up the phone are nothing.
>Some parents seem to be in shock; others are hysterical; a few
>seem to lose their ability to understand English. Do you know
>what I'm talking about?
Yes, they can get wild. (I can tell all kinds of stories - we were even
threatened by a BD who was going to come into the NICU and shoot us.) When
someone is really upset, we do all we can to calm them down. Where there have
been situations of kids being admitted to peds and in split parent situations
it can get downright nasty. (I pray to God my SD never has to be admitted to a
hospital in our current situation.) So, yes, I do know what you are talking
about.
jane lawrence
Tracey, I don't mind answering the parts addresses to me, but I
don't think it will do you much good. I don't know that I can
explain any of this so that you can understand.
>
> Jane, I still don't think she was justified for hanging up on him.
> I also don't think *he* was justified in getting loud. Do I under-
> stand *why* both of them reacted the way they did? Yes, I
> do.
This part I don't think we need to get into much. I understand
what you're saying. The justification I'm thinking of is
something like self-defense.
>
> As far as the timing of the call, I've been in a few emergency
> situations where I've been very involved with the person and
> going nuts about how they were, what their condition was,
> and 'OMIGOD, are they going to die?'
I've been in those situations too. All I can tell you is that
when person involved is my child, it is an entirely different
experience.
> and in *all* of those
> situations, I have never seen it be 10 hours before there was a
> time when I couldn't have called someone. In fact, the *worse*
> the condition, it usually means you have *more* time because
> you're usually not allowed to be there.
Tracey, if I thought that this was just me, I wouldn't even
mention it. But it's not. I'm telling you that when your kid
is lying on that gurney, you can totally lose touch with the
rest of the world. If you wanted to know what I could possibly
have been doing for those 10 hours, I honestly couldn't tell
you. It's one long blur. There was a white room. We went other
places too. I talked to some doctors. Other people came and
went. Some of them asked me questions and told me things. I
felt as though I were deaf; I couldn't hear what they were
saying.
> Did I *want* to make
> the call? No, I would have given anything to not have had to
> call mothers/fathers/grandmothers/sisters/whoever, but none
> of those people I was with at the emergency room was with-
> out someone else who cared for them just as much as *I*
> did and who deserved to know what was going on.
This whole idea is completely outside the realm of what I am
talking about. I'm sorry I can't explain it better. The entire
concept of deserving to know was in a different dimension from
the one I was in.
>
> Jane, I have to say that I don't understand why you would
> wait until the situation was stabilized before calling some-
> one else. And maybe it's because I don't know the situations
> involved. How did *you* react when told after the fact
> and how did your ex react when told after the fact? And I
> don't mean outwardly, I mean how did you feel about it?
Are you sitting down? What I felt was love. An overwhelming,
almost painfully intense flood of love for the man who was the
father of my child and who had cared for her in my absence. For
a moment I remembered precisely why I had had a child with this
person.
I can't say that my ex feels precisely the same way. It's not
the sort of thing that comes up in conversation. His general
attitude is one of gratitude, concern for our child of course,
and concern for me and what I have been going through.
> Did you not care that you didn't know what was going on
> until it was all over with? Did your ex not care?
No and no.
Once in a while DH has rolled his eyes about BM not calling him
earlier, but it's always an afterthought when he's gotten off
the phone. DH has been with me in the hospital with BD, so he
understands.
I don't know what to say about this. As a BM I really try hard
to keep my ex as informed as possible. OTOH, I think it's his
responsibility to keep up with what's going on in his daughter's
life. Most often, I call him and leave a message that he should
call her. I also tell BD that she should call her dad when
things come up. Still, I don't feel that any of that is my
job. I think that's his job.
I think it's DH's job too. I have no sympathy if he doesn't
know things because he didn't call. This summer SD was in
Florida for weeks with SF's sister. DH started to complain
because he didn't find out until he Finally called BM about the
plane reservations to come out here. I told him that was what
he got for not giving BM more advance notice. If he had had
called her when he should have, he would have known.
jane (yes, I am a bitch) lawrence
ELD
States, which leaves us here in Canada in a bit of a bind...
There's been lots of cases the last couple of years where someone has
died in the emergency room because they had to wait, in some cases, up
to 4 hours just to be assessed. It's heartbreaking. Like the little 4
year old boy who died from TSS because they sent him home after his
first visit with no diagnosis and no treatment.
Geri and Brian wrote:
>
> >Also, because of the short staffing, it would be impossible to find
> >someone who was available to sit and make phone calls for the relatives
> >of the patients
>
> In CA, the nurse/patient ratio is the worst in the United States. (Meaning
> more patients per one nurse.) In fact, there is pending legislation to
> possibly remedy this, but it is being strenuosly objected to by the insurance
> and hospital corporations who care less for quality of care than the minimum
> for the dollar.
>
> (One of my hot buttons.)
>
jane lawrence
>
>
>
> I understand that finding out about your child's life and
> what's going on with them as far as school and social life
> and all is between the parent and the child, but there ARE
> things that *should* be discussed by the parents. At least
> in *our* house there is. For instance, elective medical or
> dental procedures. If you're saying that things like that
> should be worked out between the child and the parent,
> I'd have to say I don't agree with that.
Okay, I see your point. I do have a responsibility too. I
don't think it's my job to tell the ex that BD is flunking
science. He should be keeping up with how she is doing in
school by calling me, her, the school. Otherwise, I'm his news
and information service, you know? I decide what he gets to
know, when, and how. I called him because I think it's
something he can help BD with - pep talk, lecture, shoulder to
cry on, whatever. On the other hand, we need to make decisions
about her school together. So if her flunking science involved
changing schools or programs, that's something I would feel I
needed to discuss with him before I made a decision.
jane
"The Lurker"
grandmother.
I went to the hospital, and while she was taken away for a CT scan, like
someone else said she would be if she was critical, I was in no fit state to
even speak to anyone, let alone call my ex husband...opening my mouth just
made me feel like I was going to vomit. I think I was like that for at least
48 hours.
I dont think she should have waited all that time to call, but I can
understand why she did what she did, even if it wasnt the right thing to do.
You would have to have been in that situation to have any idea how the BM
felt.
I hope SS is doing well, after 5 years my BD still hasnt fully recovered...
Tracy
"The Lurker"
But it's not. I'm telling you that when your kid
is lying on that gurney, you can totally lose touch with the
rest of the world. If you wanted to know what I could possibly
have been doing for those 10 hours, I honestly couldn't tell
you. It's one long blur. There was a white room. We went other
places too. I talked to some doctors. Other people came and
went. Some of them asked me questions and told me things. I
felt as though I were deaf; I couldn't hear what they were
saying.
Jane,
I can totally relate to that...what happened in your accident if you dont
mind me asking.
Thanks
Tracy
Tracey
>can understand.
Probably not. At least not at a gut-level. I learned *very*
early on that I'm one of those people who can stay fairly
calm at the time of a crisis, it's after it's all over that I fall
apart. But, I've seen how my mother and others react
and know that the way *I* handle things isn't the way
everyone else does.
>I don't know what to say about this. As a BM I really try hard
>to keep my ex as informed as possible.
And you know what? That probably makes all the difference in
the world between your ex and yourself. DH and I talked about
it last night and I *can* understand the total tunnel vision that
can come about when there's a crisis and, if his ex had *ever*
given any indication that she felt that things going on in their
kids' life were something that DH needed to be kept up on,
it's possible that I, at least, could have been able to say 'You
know, it was just one of those things that happens.' But it's
so very hard to say that when you can think of 20 other times
when there has been a void in communication from her.
>OTOH, I think it's his responsibility to keep up with what's
>going on in his daughter's life.
You know, Jane, I'm not talking about the prom or that
one of the kids is going to Florida for the week. We're
talking issues like finding out that your son is doing drugs
or where the kids are living and *why* they are living
there. There are not *too* many kids that *I* know of
that are going to offer the information that their mother
found their stash of pot and their bong during the weekly
phone call.
>Most often, I call him and leave a message that he should
>call her. I also tell BD that she should call her dad when
>things come up. Still, I don't feel that any of that is my
>job. I think that's his job.
I understand that finding out about your child's life and
what's going on with them as far as school and social life
and all is between the parent and the child, but there ARE
things that *should* be discussed by the parents. At least
in *our* house there is. For instance, elective medical or
dental procedures. If you're saying that things like that
should be worked out between the child and the parent,
I'd have to say I don't agree with that. That was another
thing that his ex chose to ignore and to make the decisions
on until DH stopped paying the entire bill. When he de-
cided to enforce the decree and make her pay for half of
it, the elective stuff stopped.
>jane (yes, I am a bitch) lawrence
Nah, you're not a bitch. It just seems that you and your ex
have a history of making sure that the other knows what's
happening in your BD's life (even if it is through alternate
means rather than directly) so that when things like this
come up, you're not feeling as if it's another example of
how little importance you are given as your child's parent.
Melissa Torresan
wrote:
>And you know what? That probably makes all the difference in
>the world between your ex and yourself. DH and I talked about
>it last night and I *can* understand the total tunnel vision that
>can come about when there's a crisis and, if his ex had *ever*
>given any indication that she felt that things going on in their
>kids' life were something that DH needed to be kept up on,
>it's possible that I, at least, could have been able to say 'You
>know, it was just one of those things that happens.' But it's
>so very hard to say that when you can think of 20 other times
>when there has been a void in communication from her.
Tracey.. its late, I've had no sleep for 24 hours, I've got two very
energetic kids in the house, and I was just about to pack it in for
the night when I read this, and I wanted to reply to it right away.
I personally feel, that each little thing adds up into a big thing
eventually, and I hate myself for being that way. You know, we just
seem to be the ones that are *always* being flexible, when BM never
is, we seem to put up with a lot of crap yet never say anything about
how we feel - except to each other, and a whole lot of other things
that add up to this feeling that we are not important in any way.
If your BM had always done the right thing by you all, then this would
not have been an issue at all. One momentary lapse of reason can be
forgiven. 20 momentary lapses of reason tends to look like its done on
purpose.
This is why, when our BM called up last week and said she did not
dislike or hate me, I laughed my tits off. Because I know that is
crap. The worst part is, it's going to take an awful lot to get me
back in that position where I am going to trust her being nice or
friendly to me again. Now, I can see just how insincere it is, and
even if she bent over backwards to be nice to me, I'm going to be
looking for the ulterior motive.
Do you know what I mean? I do not think I could now tell if BM was
being sincere or not, just everything she says sounds insincere to
me..
Not that it looks like that is going to happen.. at pick up tonight
she barely said two words to me.. I had my nephew there, and SK and
him got on like a house on fire.. I could see BM was none too happy
about it.. she cringed each time SK called nephew by his special
nickname!! More about that in another post when I am more awake -
although I feel a second wind coming on now! :) so it could be sooner
than you think!
Tracey, I've been thinking about you and your eldest SS all day.. so
has SO and I even talked to my sister about it, so just to let you
know we are thinking of you.. I've got something I want to post to you
on the subject a little later - when you've had some time to breathe
and chill :) :)
Tracey
>not have been an issue at all. One momentary lapse of reason can be
>forgiven. 20 momentary lapses of reason tends to look like its done on
>purpose.
Yep. That's where we are right now.
Tracey
Thanks, jane. I never have thought that his ex should be
calling him once a week to tell him what the kids have
scheduled at school or they didn't make it home until
an hour after curfew last night or anything that can and
really *should* be handled by the CP. But, as I said,
even the 'big' decisions and things haven't been being
relayed to him.