Regarding spouses income
August
I seem to recall a conversation quite a while ago about a SM in here who was
adamant that she was not going to submit any income tax information to the
BM in relation to any CS issues.
Does anyone remember who this was, what the argument against submitting the
information was and what the outcome was?
Or more specifically, does anyone know if it is mandatory in Illinois for
the spouse of the NCP to turn over personal financial documents (including
income tax returns filed jointly) when dealing with CS modification?
I know this is not really the correct forum to ask this type of question,
but I figured I would give it a shot since I remember the situation being
discussed in here before.
Thanks!
The Watsons
"August" <august164...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c562ss$8sm$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
you might be able to google illinois's child support laws...
but IIRC, illinois isn't one of those states that'll assess a SP child
support...don't hold me to that-i just took my first sip o' coffee...:)
Jess
~August
Illinois is based on a percentage of net pay of the NCP only. It is my
understanding that the new spouse's income does not play into the
calculations. It is also my understanding that income from ALL sources of
the NCP do. My husband's ex is due for a raise this year. No problem.
Last time we modified it was done pro-se using a current pay stub. This time
her lawyer wants last years tax forms which were filed joint with me. I
was hoping whoever else was in that same situation before, or if anyone
remembers discussing that situation, that they would remember the argument
and outcome.
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Egydc.416$Va4.379@fed1read01...
The Watsons
"~August" <august164...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c56dc3$co3$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> Thanks -
> Illinois is based on a percentage of net pay of the NCP only. It is my
> understanding that the new spouse's income does not play into the
> calculations. It is also my understanding that income from ALL sources of
> the NCP do. My husband's ex is due for a raise this year. No problem.
> Last time we modified it was done pro-se using a current pay stub. This
time
> her lawyer wants last years tax forms which were filed joint with me. I
> was hoping whoever else was in that same situation before, or if anyone
> remembers discussing that situation, that they would remember the argument
> and outcome.
but your income isn't the NCP's, it's yours...yes, you have to submit tax
forms that'll have your income, but it won't be taken into account...
Jess
Kathy Cole
<august164...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> Illinois is based on a percentage of net pay of the NCP only. It is my
> understanding that the new spouse's income does not play into the
> calculations. It is also my understanding that income from ALL sources of
> the NCP do. My husband's ex is due for a raise this year. No problem.
> Last time we modified it was done pro-se using a current pay stub. This time
> her lawyer wants last years tax forms which were filed joint with me.
It's Anne who's done that, and she can correct me if I misstate this,
but what they did was prepare an alternate 1040 that excluded her income
(and her portion of the deductions, I think).
The Watsons
"Kathy Cole" <ka...@scconsult.com> wrote in message
news:2hfd70t9c5dva2o4c...@4ax.com...
> It's Anne who's done that, and she can correct me if I misstate this,
> but what they did was prepare an alternate 1040 that excluded her income
> (and her portion of the deductions, I think).
but don't the courts want a copy of what's actually filed with the IRS?
Jess
~August
> but what they did was prepare an alternate 1040 that excluded her income
> (and her portion of the deductions, I think).
Oh I Like that!
I have multiple income sources and deductions for my children that have
absolutely nothing to do with my husband and his income. He doesn't
understand why they would need it at all because of the mingled amounts. I
am afraid that if we were to show a return with a awful lot more income then
he makes, then they can request he verify the income is mine and not his.
Now, that's pretty personal stuff that has nothing to do with his CS case
and I don't want to divulge that kind of info. We are not hiding
anything...it is just a matter of privacy. I will keep this in mind and hope
to hear from Anne verification about the issue.
Thanks!
Anne Robotti
wrote:
True, with the caveat that we were allowed to do that by NJ law
because we were not requesting any modification of the support based
on the fact that we had three other children.
Anne
Anne Robotti
In some states they may. In NJ, how it works is that when you're asked
for tax information relevant to CS, you have to decide whether you're
going to ask that the child support be lessened because of your family
expenses, i.e. expenses relating to other children.
If you're asking that your other children be taken into consideration
(and BTW don't bother because they won't be anyway, our lawyer said my
three children would have lowered our child support about $10 a week),
then you have to submit tax forms relevant to your family income.
If you're deciding to just suck it up and pay CS based on the salary
of the parent as if there were no other children in the mix, then you
can submit what's called a decanted tax form, which erases all mention
of the income of the step-parent, but also erases any mention of any
expenses incurred relative to the step-parent or any children of the
second marriage.
In our case, with my income being *so* much higher than Chuck's, this
was the only thing that made sense. To do it the other way would have
been financial suicide, as CS figured on our family income would have
doubled, if not tripled our CS figure at the time and we were already
paying most of SD's expenses anyway.
Anne
~August
"Anne Robotti" <arob...@deletemelscomm.net> wrote in message
news:73nd70d53vvnb8g79...@4ax.com...
> If you're deciding to just suck it up and pay CS based on the salary
> of the parent as if there were no other children in the mix, then you
> can submit what's called a decanted tax form, which erases all mention
> of the income of the step-parent, but also erases any mention of any
> expenses incurred relative to the step-parent or any children of the
> second marriage.
Thanks Anne,
That is exactly what we would want to do. I will check into Illinois law
and see if this is a possibility.
Thanks for the response!
~August
Geri and sometimes Brian
>but what they did was prepare an alternate 1040 that excluded her income
>(and her portion of the deductions, I think).
We do this every year.
~~Geri~~
[Deep behind enemy lines in Pac-10 Country]
The Watsons
> for tax information relevant to CS, you have to decide whether you're
> going to ask that the child support be lessened because of your family
> expenses, i.e. expenses relating to other children.
>
FWIR, they require the actual form you file here...and don't even ask that
other children be taken into consideration-the only way that happens is if
there's an older court order....
> If you're deciding to just suck it up and pay CS based on the salary
> of the parent as if there were no other children in the mix, then you
> can submit what's called a decanted tax form, which erases all mention
> of the income of the step-parent, but also erases any mention of any
> expenses incurred relative to the step-parent or any children of the
> second marriage.
cool...:)
> In our case, with my income being *so* much higher than Chuck's, this
> was the only thing that made sense. To do it the other way would have
> been financial suicide, as CS figured on our family income would have
> doubled, if not tripled our CS figure at the time and we were already
> paying most of SD's expenses anyway.
makes sense...:)
Jess
August
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040409153814...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> >It's Anne who's done that, and she can correct me if I misstate this,
> >but what they did was prepare an alternate 1040 that excluded her income
> >(and her portion of the deductions, I think).
>
> We do this every year.
Oh! Another "it can be done" story. Havent been able to find anything on
line yet.
Feeling hopeful!
Thanks!
~August
>
> ~~Geri~~
Pat
news:c56kbg$frt$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>I am afraid that if we were to show a return with a awful lot more >income
then he makes, then they can request he verify the income is >mine and not
his. Now, that's pretty personal stuff that has nothing to >do with his CS
case and I don't want to divulge that kind of info. We >are not hiding
anything...it is just a matter of privacy.
August,
I'm coming in on the tail end here but I wanted to add that I'm in Michigan
and have been asked to disclose my income when dh's CS was being "adjusted".
Because MY income means that dh has more disposable income (meaning he has
more "spare" money to pay cs with), I refused to disclose my income. Quite
honestly, because BM refuses to work, makes me even less likely to EVER
disclose what I make.
I was told by the Friend of the Court that my not disclosing could hurt dh,
but so far it hasn't. And really, I don't think it's any of BM's business
what I make.
All we did was give the Friend of the Court dh's w-2 instead of our 1040 tax
form. Worked for us!!!!!
Pat
~August
"Pat" <blin...@NOSPAMtriton.net> wrote in message
news:81736$407af7ac$d841a261$21...@allthenewsgroups.com...
> All we did was give the Friend of the Court dh's w-2 instead of our 1040
tax
> form. Worked for us!!!!!
Thanks Pat! i will keep that in mind if they start to insist!
The thing is, they are asking for last years tax return. That is not MY
income. That is HIS tax return as much as it is mine. I dont see how *I*
can refuse to give it and make any difference as they are asking HIM for HIS
return. The fact that it has my information on it and i don't want that
information disclosed doesn't necessarily mean that he cant give them HIS
information and tough luck to me, ya know what i mean? So if the court asks
for HIS return and he refuses to give it to protect my privacy, it would be
HIM not following court order. That would suck.
Maybe once we understand exactly why they want it we will be in a better
position to figure out what to do about it.
Thanks again!
~August
~August
luvsladybugs
injured spouse report to keep your income separate. That would also let
you get you part of the tax return back if your husband has to pay back
CP. Hope that helps you out.
Anne Robotti
The injured spouse report only helps you get money back that the
government unfairly confiscated from you for back child support.
Unfortunately it's not a proactive statement that they can't do it in
the future.
Anne
Filed one, got me nowhere...
loriy
income information (black marked) and asked the judge for privacy in
relation to my income, it worked, he only made us go by the tax
attachedments w2's, and she was not allowed to see what i made.
~August
"loriy" <lye...@aktion.com> wrote in message
news:64a8eea7217b011f...@localhost.talkaboutsupport.com...
We met with our attny last week and submitted his W2s.
We showed him a copy of our tax return so he could represent us in good
faith...you know, to prove to him that we weren't hiding anything and it was
all a matter of privacy between me and the ex. We gave a copy of the last
pay stub and last years W2s.
He said if she REALLY wants it, she can subpoena them.... and WILL get them
(this is in Illinois)
That's ok. She thought she was tough shit requesting CS increase. DH
doesn't mind the CS increase...we accept CS from my ex with no qualms and
so long as she doesn't go for more than state guidelines then there is no
reason to hold that against her.
We are taking this opportunity to enforce other parts of the agreement that
she has not complied with.
Its gonna be a fun couple of months and we are going to love every minute of
it. If she gets knowledge of my income out of the deal, no
biggie....that's the ONLY thing she will get out of this whole thing and we
have her back so tight up against the wall...the more of a *itch she is, the
harder we will press. Knowing my income is nothing compared to what we are
going to do to her. None of it affects the children, so its a no holds game!
~August
(who loves the idea of karma ;-)
Kathleen
Just curious.
Kathleen
--
There is more hunger for love and appreciation in this world than for
bread.
~ Mother Teresa
: > my husband's ex tried that......we blacked out all of my income
:
:
~August
"Kathleen" <lovebi...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c643b1$7qvjs$1...@ID-108718.news.uni-berlin.de...
> What did you mean, "none of it affects the children?"
> Just curious.
> Kathleen
Hi Kathleen -
It means that except for the backlash they may get from mommy being pissed
at daddy, (but they should be use to that by now) they are not going to lose
out on on anything just because of us kicking her butt in court.. Life will
go on for them as normal.
~August
Melissa
>doesn't mind the CS increase...we accept CS from my ex with no qualms and
>so long as she doesn't go for more than state guidelines then there is no
>reason to hold that against her.
>We are taking this opportunity to enforce other parts of the agreement that
>she has not complied with.
>Its gonna be a fun couple of months and we are going to love every minute of
>it. If she gets knowledge of my income out of the deal, no
>biggie....that's the ONLY thing she will get out of this whole thing and we
>have her back so tight up against the wall...the more of a *itch she is, the
>harder we will press. Knowing my income is nothing compared to what we are
>going to do to her. None of it affects the children, so its a no holds game!
>~August
>(who loves the idea of karma ;-)
>
>
You know, court things don't often turn out the way you want them too, and
judges won't necessarily give a flying fuck about things in the order that you
see as a slam dunk.
Love,
Melissa
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040420234215...@mb-m05.aol.com...
> You know, court things don't often turn out the way you want them too, and
> judges won't necessarily give a flying fuck about things in the order that
you
> see as a slam dunk.
Maybe. But it is pretty hard to argue with a black & white agreement.
I know better then to get over confident, but in this case, i will take that
chance :-)
Luckily, she is dealing with a fair lawyer and we are dealing with a fair
judge.
We are not asking for anything except for what she has already agreed to.
She is non-compliant with the divorce agreement by not removing DH's name
from the mortgage and settling the equity over a year ago deadline. She
wants to start buying a new house next month. She either complies now, in
full, on our terms, or all bets are off until the court date which is at a
minimum three months down the road. At that time, we are pretty sure she
will be ordered to comply, she will not have been able to move foward with
her house plans this spring, and now she is also paying part of our attorney
fees. She has also not complied with the court order to authorize DH access
to the children's school and medical records. This isnt something we are
requesting, this has already been ordered. When we finally get that
authorization, we get to prove she has been stiffing us on medical claims
for the last 4 years. How much sweeter can it get!? It may or may not turn
out that way, but at this point we have absolutely nothing to lose and the
more she fusses now, the more *she* MAY lose later. So how important is all
of this to her. The odds are in our favor all the way. The ball is in her
court. We are willing to play the game...and we are playing hard ball.
~August
<lovin every minute of it>
Melissa
HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
Have you actually been to court?
>~August
><lovin every minute of it>
>
You might not be singing the same tune afterwards.
Love,
Melissa
Lori
"rebecca" <justre...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:ftFhc.6254$e4....@newsread2.news.pas.earthlink.net...
>
> "Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > >Maybe. But it is pretty hard to argue with a black & white agreement.
> >
> > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Have you actually been to court?
> >
>
> suggesting that court is anything but a place where love and justice
rules,
> where people who violate agreements and ignore court orders are soundly
> punished, and where good parents get some back on their evil
> exes????????????
>
> rebecca
Right, and there's a Walgreens there too, because it's the town of
'Perfect", right? :-)
Lori
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.663 / Virus Database: 426 - Release Date: 4/20/04
The Watsons
"Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
news:3mIhc.685$hk6...@fe03.usenetserver.com...
> Right, and there's a Walgreens there too, because it's the town of
> 'Perfect", right? :-)
> Lori
*confuzzled*
J
August
and once to modify. What we are asking for has already been ordered and we
are now asking it be enforced.
I will let you guys be the pessimists and I will be the optimist. :-)
But thanks to everyone who responded with suggestions on what to do about
the tax return. Right now we are just hoping she accepts the W2.
Thanks again!
~August
Melissa
There's optimism and then there's a thirst for revenge. To me your posts seem
more like the latter.
Love,
Melissa
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
When you go in and get an order for something and then sit back for the next
4 years and deal with BS about it all.....
DH has been one not to make waves for various reasons. Now it is time to
hold her accountable and because we hold the cards (if in no other way than
to be able to avoid her moving forward with her house plans on her schedule)
it is her turn to feel uncomfortable and see what it feels like to have
someone else calling the shots. What we love the most, is that she has made
this bed herself by not complying with the original order. We can feel high
and mighty because we know we are not intentionally being asses, like she
has been to us. Not a thirst for revenge.... that sounds so.... evil. But
Sweet revenge? Oh yeah :-)
~August
(no bubble bursting allowed today ;-)
The Watsons
> We have been to court with this judge twice...once for the original
divorce
> and once to modify. What we are asking for has already been ordered and
we
> are now asking it be enforced.
> I will let you guys be the pessimists and I will be the optimist. :-)
go ahead...:) i hope it works out for you...:)
Jess
The Watsons
"~August" <august164...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c68gi4$i3e$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
>> Absolutely.
> When you go in and get an order for something and then sit back for the
next
> 4 years and deal with BS about it all.....
> DH has been one not to make waves for various reasons. Now it is time to
> hold her accountable and because we hold the cards (if in no other way
than
> to be able to avoid her moving forward with her house plans on her
schedule)
> it is her turn to feel uncomfortable and see what it feels like to have
> someone else calling the shots. What we love the most, is that she has
made
> this bed herself by not complying with the original order. We can feel
high
> and mighty because we know we are not intentionally being asses, like she
> has been to us. Not a thirst for revenge.... that sounds so.... evil. But
> Sweet revenge? Oh yeah :-)
> ~August
> (no bubble bursting allowed today ;-)
*pulls out the pins*
sorry, gal, but either of you walks into court with That kind of attitude,
you're screwed before you even open your mouth...
Jess
~August
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:DxQhc.19570$432.823@fed1read01...
>
> sorry, gal, but either of you walks into court with That kind of attitude,
> you're screwed before you even open your mouth...
Noted. We are well aware and will act appropriately, both in writing before
the court date and in person at the court date, if it comes down to that.
~August
~August
>
> Jess
>
Thanks! :-)
~August
jane
Just so you know - that's not coming through in your posts.
jane
~August
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040422111032...@mb-m16.aol.com...
> >we are not intentionally being asses
>
> Just so you know - that's not coming through in your posts.
Yes, i know, i sound pretty cocky. But i dont feel we are being asses since
all we are doing is feeling good about being able to call her on HER being
an ass for the past four years. I mean, after sitting on it for years and
saying, "yeah, go ahead, have your fun, it will all come back to haunt you
and we will have our day in court"... well, yes, it feels good to finally
have that day come. It's all very professional and matter of fact when
dealing with her and her lawyer, but we are celebrating on this end. She
can think we are being asses all she wants. We will be able to sleep at
night :-)
~August
Geri and sometimes Brian
Thirst for revenge is good sometimes. It helps you get through things.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
The Watsons
"~August" <august164...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c68lgg$k8s$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> > go ahead...:) i hope it works out for you...:)
> >
> > Jess
> >
>
> Thanks! :-)
welcome...:)
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
>
>Just so you know - that's not coming through in your posts.
Actually, I found them kind of funny - in a good way. I know exactly where she
is coming from.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
The Watsons
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
news:20040422113128...@mb-m28.aol.com...
> Actually, I found them kind of funny - in a good way. I know exactly
where she
> is coming from.
so do i, and i can't really blame her-but at the same point in time......
Jess
Geri and sometimes Brian
Or naybe not.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
rebecca
>
> Yes, i know, i sound pretty cocky. But i dont feel we are being asses
since
> all we are doing is feeling good about being able to call her on HER being
> an ass for the past four years. I mean, after sitting on it for years and
> saying, "yeah, go ahead, have your fun, it will all come back to haunt you
> and we will have our day in court"... well, yes, it feels good to finally
> have that day come. It's all very professional and matter of fact when
> dealing with her and her lawyer, but we are celebrating on this end. She
> can think we are being asses all she wants. We will be able to sleep at
> night :-)
> ~August
Yeah, good luck with that. You said in an earlier post that "none of it
affects the children", August, and I can tell you from long cold experience
that _anything_ you do affects them when you are dealing with a parent who
doesn't care enough to follow the court order.
So I would just say I hope the parts you are talking about are important
enough to you to have this fight over.
If your DH has a court order that he's authorized to have access to the
kids' medical records, why can't he just go around BM to the docs/insurance
company? We have absolutely no need to deal with BM regarding doctors,
providing you have the name of the doctor, just call them up, send them the
order and you're done.
Just IME, that and the mortgage thing, she may be ordered to comply, but
she's not going to get in any trouble about it. Melissa? Geri? Am I
wrong?
rebecca
~August
> Yeah, good luck with that. You said in an earlier post that "none of it
> affects the children", August, and I can tell you from long cold
experience
> that _anything_ you do affects them when you are dealing with a parent who
> doesn't care enough to follow the court order.
We know the children are affected by her being pissy toweard dad, but even
during the past 4 years they have been affected by that and he hasnt been
doing anything but bending over for it. So, its not like we can change
that. Time to step up to the plate.
>
> So I would just say I hope the parts you are talking about are important
> enough to you to have this fight over.
>
> If your DH has a court order that he's authorized to have access to the
> kids' medical records, why can't he just go around BM to the
docs/insurance
> company? We have absolutely no need to deal with BM regarding doctors,
> providing you have the name of the doctor, just call them up, send them
the
> order and you're done.
He has to show up with a certified copy of the court order in order for them
to give him any information. What are you gonna do when they tell you that!?
Take THEM to court??? (grrrrr) Maybe after he does that once, they will
give him info in the future also, but he never went through the trouble
because they are in another state over 5 hours away. So, instead he just
pays what she says he should, all the while letting her know he disagrees
with what he is paying and requesting she comply with the court order to
authorize access to the kid's records.. The records dont say each parent has
rights, it says each parent will make sure the other parent has rights to
whatever doctor or school they take the children to. Our lawyer is in her
town and has the power to get what we want without us having to take a day
off work and travel 12 hours in a day to accomplish it.
>
> Just IME, that and the mortgage thing, she may be ordered to comply, but
> she's not going to get in any trouble about it.
She doesnt have to get into trouble. She just needs to comply and on our
terms or else wait 3 or 4 months for a court date to be told to comply (on
whatever terms). Either way, we hold the cards to her going through with
her house plans this spring. And that just feels good.
Geri and sometimes Brian
>to give him any information. What are you gonna do when they tell you that!?
>Take THEM to court??? (grrrrr)
I have found that just threatening to do so works pretty well with some of
these self-important cubicle dwellers in the school system.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
The Watsons
"Geri and sometimes Brian" <gple...@aol.comGOBIGRED> wrote in message
how much is it to request a certified copy a court order and send it to the
docs with a copy of a driver's license, priority mail?
Jess
August
> how much is it to request a certified copy a court order and send it to
the
> docs with a copy of a driver's license, priority mail?
One would think anyway.
Hey - if it were me, I wouldnt have put up with it, but he has always cited
the children as a reason not to make waves.
I think some of his reasoning is screwy, and i think sometimes he bent over
a little too far or a little too long. I have had a lot of help from
reading this board in seeing other sides of things especially if i dont
agree with it.
In the end, it's his ex, his kids, his call.
~August
August
If it were my call, I wouldnt have put up with it.
This board has kept me sane many times when I found myself stuck on the
opposite side of the fence from DH :-)
~August
heather m.
Heather
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:lMXhc.19769$432.9119@fed1read01...
>
Lori
>
> "Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> > >Maybe. But it is pretty hard to argue with a black & white agreement.
> >
> > HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!
> >
> > Have you actually been to court?
> >
>
> suggesting that court is anything but a place where love and justice
rules,
> where people who violate agreements and ignore court orders are soundly
> punished, and where good parents get some back on their evil
> exes????????????
>
> rebecca
Right, and there's a Walgreens there too, because it's the town of
'Perfect", right? :-)
Lori
Melissa
>>There's optimism and then there's a thirst for revenge.
>
>Thirst for revenge is good sometimes. It helps you get through things.
Until the judge doesn't rule your way.
Love,
Melissa
Geri and sometimes Brian
>
>Until the judge doesn't rule your way.
Well, that is always rsfcked when that happens. You win some, you lose some,
you take your chances.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Melissa
>She doesnt have to get into trouble. She just needs to comply and on our
>terms or else wait 3 or 4 months for a court date to be told to comply (on
>whatever terms). Either way, we hold the cards to her going through with
>her house plans this spring. And that just feels good.
Considering your attitude I just can't imagine why BM doesn't like to
cooperate.
Love,
Melissa
Lori
>
> "Lori" <real...@bigfoot.com> wrote in message
> news:3mIhc.685$hk6...@fe03.usenetserver.com...
> > Right, and there's a Walgreens there too, because it's the town of
> > 'Perfect", right? :-)
> > Lori
>
>
> J
>
There's a TV commercial for the Walgreens stores inwhich everyone lives in
this wonderful place, where it snows only on the grass, rains only at night,
etc, a town called perfect. Then the punch is that since it doesn't exist,
it's a good thing there's Walgreens.
Lori
---
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Lori
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
No offense, Melissa, but maybe she's dealth with the BM from the psyche
ward. I've been there. I have to admit, the whole 'what goes around comes
around" thing has occasionally given me a very satisfying feeling. That's
what I'm seeing in her posts, and it isn't always a bad thing. I've been
feeling a bit of it myself, lately.
badgirl
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040422232150...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >
Melissa, you know damn well that the attitude portrayed here is not
always what comes out when it's time to step up to the plate. I'll
give you a similar situation of my own for an example:
I posted last Oct about having to attend my SIL's (little drama queen
princess high maintenance entitlement bitch) wedding and wanting to
know how to politely find out if BM was attending, I was upset and
pissed off and had no problem explaining my feelings about the
situation here. When push came to shove and we actually went to the
wedding I did behave myself and acted like an adult and didn't cause a
scene. That doesn't mean I was treated decently(I wasn't), and I knew
I wouldn't be, but it also didn't mean I needed to get out of line to
show them up one either.
I think what August (?) is putting here on the board is her real
feeling, but when it comes to court day she'll behave herself and keep
her *attitude* in check.
You make it sound like everyone acts the way they post and that's just
not always the case.
Jen
The Watsons
> There's a TV commercial for the Walgreens stores inwhich everyone lives in
> this wonderful place, where it snows only on the grass, rains only at
night,
> etc, a town called perfect. Then the punch is that since it doesn't
exist,
> it's a good thing there's Walgreens.
Aah....hadn't seen that one out here...:)
Jess
The Watsons
> Hey - if it were me, I wouldnt have put up with it, but he has always
cited
> the children as a reason not to make waves.
> I think some of his reasoning is screwy, and i think sometimes he bent
over
> a little too far or a little too long. I have had a lot of help from
> reading this board in seeing other sides of things especially if i dont
> agree with it.
>
> In the end, it's his ex, his kids, his call.
"tim syndrome"....;)
Jess
August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040422232150...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >
Actually, it's just the opposite. The attitude you see here is a result of
having to deal with her BS and lack of cooperation for four years.
~August
August
> >
> >Thirst for revenge is good sometimes. It helps you get through things.
>
> Until the judge doesn't rule your way.
He has already ruled our way. We are just asking for the ruling to be
enforced now. I cant see any reason why he would not enforce his own rule.
All we are asking is the house be taken out of his name, the equity settled
and access to the kids medical records. I think it helps that these are not
issues that were fought over and won...it was an agreement between the two
(they settled their own divorce) and the judge discussed it with them and
signed the decree.
~August
(throwing caution to the wind and just being totally optimistic :-)
Melissa
I've seen this happen so many times with multiple judges now on a variety of
things. They make orders, and then do nothing when they're not enforced or
just give everyone crap about not being able to work things out on their own
and still refuse to enforce it.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>ward
No offense Lori but my family *does* deal with a BM from the psyche ward. That
doesn't excuse any way that my SO or I behave though.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>having to deal with her BS and lack of cooperation for four years.
>~August
>
Um no that's exactly what I was talking about.
Love,
Melissa
Kathy Cole
<august164...@hotmail.com> wrote:
> She is non-compliant with the divorce agreement by not removing DH's
> name from the mortgage and settling the equity over a year ago
> deadline. She wants to start buying a new house next month. She
> either complies now, in full, on our terms, or all bets are off
> until the court date which is at a minimum three months down the
> road.
Won't she have to settle this as part of closing on the selling of the
house anyway? He has a lien on the house for the amount she owes him,
right, set up as part of him signing over his part of the deed? So this
could be resolved by her selling and paying you out as part of the
closing before you even get to court.
If he didn't sign over the deed, she can't list the house without his
signature anyway (or at least she can't close without it), so you don't
have to do anything there.
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
Well, i must admit i dont follow you. When you wrote:
> Considering your attitude I just can't imagine why BM doesn't like to
> cooperate.
I read that to have a sarcastic tone which suggested that BM would not be
very cooperative if this (type of attitude) was what she had to deal with
and try to be co-operative with.
My response was meant to indicate that she has never had reason not to
co-operate other than that it didn't suit her to, and the attitude from me
now (being cocky and unwilling to work with her on her terms) is a result of
having to deal with her and her unacceptable actions for so long.
Either way, i don't suppose it matters. I don't get the impression that you
are warning me that things may not turn out how i expect, but rather that
you don't agree with the strong stance we are taking about not taking any
more of her BS and feeling good about being in a position to be able to take
that stance and actually feeling good about being able to dish back to her
some of what she has dished to us for the past four years.
I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling good about seeing someone
who has given you shit for so long get a taste of their own medicine.
That's all that is going on here. We are not being asses just because we
can. We are standing up for what we can and not taking any BS about it, and
feeling good about being able to do so.
~August
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
Well, i cant see any way to change that and choose to remain optimistic
about the whole thing.
~August
Melissa
>about the whole thing.
>~August
>
>
Except that you've said yourself you're more vengeful than optimistic.
Optimistic I understand.
Love,
Melissa
Melissa
>very cooperative if this (type of attitude) was what she had to deal with
>and try to be co-operative with.
Exactly. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with you guys. I'm not saying
anythign about, and I'm sure that she is difficult, but it looks to me like the
being difficult goes both ways.
>and the attitude from me
>now (being cocky and unwilling to work with her on her terms) is a result of
>having to deal with her and her unacceptable actions for so long.
No it's not a result of that. And this is something that bugs me. People love
to blame BM for their own behavior. It's so much easier than actually looking
at one's own issues. Making someone else responsible for your reactions
doesn't do anything but give that person more power, and yourself a good excuse
not to change.
>I don't get the impression that you
>are warning me that things may not turn out how i expect,
Actually that's exactly what I'm doing.
>but rather that
>you don't agree with the strong stance we are taking about not taking any
>more of her BS and feeling good about being in a position to be able to take
>that stance and actually feeling good about being able to dish back to her
>some of what she has dished to us for the past four years.
You don't know that you are in that position yet.
>I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling good about seeing someone
>who has given you shit for so long get a taste of their own medicine.
Well see I do, and it's one of the things that drives me nuts about myself, but
that's neither here or there really.
Love,
Melissa
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
Actually, we are lucky in that she is not "from the psych ward" so much as
she just refuses to do what she is suppose to do. She didn't want to pay
for a refinance so she didn't re-finance. She didn't want to shell out
equity money, so she didn't. She doesn't want DH to know what she does with
her kids accounts so she doesn't authorize him access to them. And then
just a bunch of piddly stuff that he has (and probably will continue) to
look the other way about.
~August
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
Well, i do feel very optimistic about the whole thing.
I corrected the image of revenge...mentioned that it sounded evil and i
wasn't feeling that way.
When I picture revenge, I picture an angry person who wants to get back at
someone, seething mad and willing to do anything it takes to "get back at
them".
I am not feeling that kind of revenge. I mentioned that i was feeling *Sweet
Revenge*. "Smug", "Cocky", "Told You So", "You Made The Bed", etc.
~August
someone
> >who has given you shit for so long get a taste of their own medicine.
>
> Well see I do, and it's one of the things that drives me nuts about
myself, but
> that's neither here or there really.
Wow. I just totally do not understand that.
But as an FYI - I am not "blaming" BM for my reactions. My reactions may be
brought on because of her behavior, but I take full responsibility for
allowing them to be what they are.
~August
Melissa
>Wow. I just totally do not understand that.
It's an ethical thing. I don't think it's right to take pleasure in watching
others suffer, even when they've made their own bed. I'm not saying that it
shouldn't happen or that we should feel sympathetic, but for me enjoying the
pain of someone else is wrong.
It's also something I struggle with daily.
Love,
Melissa
Deborah M Riel
Melissa <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote:
>>I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling good about seeing someone
>>who has given you shit for so long get a taste of their own medicine.
>
>Well see I do, and it's one of the things that drives me nuts about myself, but
>that's neither here or there really.
>
>
Why does it drive you nuts about yourself? Revenge isn't so
sweet--it's just bad breeding more bad.
Deb R.
Melissa
>Why does it drive you nuts about yourself? Revenge isn't so
>sweet--it's just bad breeding more bad.
>
>Deb R.
>
It drives me nuts that I still sometimes fall prey to wanting revenge.
Love,
Melissa
jane
>
>Until the judge doesn't rule your way.
>Love,
>Melissa
Thirst for revenge isn't a good thing no matter how the judge rules, though.
It's always a distraction from the goal. That's why it always leaves ashes in
your mouth. When you get it, you realize it wasn't what you wanted after all.
jane
jane
~August
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> >
> >Wow. I just totally do not understand that.
>
> It's an ethical thing. I don't think it's right to take pleasure in
watching
> others suffer, even when they've made their own bed.
Ok, well at least now i can uderstand what you are saying and why.
Although i could argue that BM will not actually be suffering, but i wont.
To do so could indicate that i miss your point, and thats not the case.
~August
Vicki Robinson
>It drives me nuts that I still sometimes fall prey to wanting revenge.
>
Everyone does though. It's what Christians call our essential sinful
nature. You'll never get past it, but it's very human, and
forgiveable.
Vicki
--
Just to think I used to worry about things like that.
Used to worry 'bout rich and skinny
'til I wound up poor and fat.
-Delbert McClinton
The Watsons
> Actually, it's just the opposite. The attitude you see here is a result
of
> having to deal with her BS and lack of cooperation for four years.
gee, like i don't know That position too damned well...
and it's been over a year now-a christmas, a turkeyday, a birthday, an
anniversary is coming up soon....
just something to consider, hon...
Jess
The Watsons
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
news:20040423103517...@mb-m11.aol.com...
> >
don't feel bad-you ain't alone...:/
Jess
The Watsons
"~August" <august164...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:c6b76b$pqq$1...@mozo.cc.purdue.edu...
> Well, i cant see any way to change that and choose to remain optimistic
> about the whole thing.
"pray for the best, expect the worst, and what you get falls somewhere in
the middle"....
Jess
The Watsons
> I am not feeling that kind of revenge. I mentioned that i was feeling
*Sweet
> Revenge*. "Smug", "Cocky", "Told You So", "You Made The Bed", etc.
something that you always have to remember is that a judge is an arbiter of
fact, he's not going to care who made which bed or who's sleeping in it or
with which partner (sorry, bad joke, couldn't resist ;) )...he's going to
look at the facts as they stand on their own merits and make a judgement
based on that...
Jess
The Watsons
"Kathy Cole" <ka...@scconsult.com> wrote in message
news:ja2i80d57ousml0p9...@4ax.com...
wow, i own my house and i skipped right over this....
i think she can list it, but she can't sell it without a written consent
from him, at least here...any realtor should be able to tell you...
Jess
The Watsons
> Actually, we are lucky in that she is not "from the psych ward" so much
as
> she just refuses to do what she is suppose to do. She didn't want to pay
> for a refinance so she didn't re-finance. She didn't want to shell out
> equity money, so she didn't. She doesn't want DH to know what she does
with
> her kids accounts so she doesn't authorize him access to them. And then
> just a bunch of piddly stuff that he has (and probably will continue) to
> look the other way about.
and if there are alternative ways for him to get that information that don't
involve her (especially if he has a court order specifying his rights of
access), then the judge is going to tell him to take those alternative
routes...
BM *should've* been giving tim full access to school and medical for years;
the statute reads that tim had "rights of access directly from the custodian
of the records"; the judge's question the first time was whether tim had
gone directly to the school or the doctor...it wasn't until BM threatened
the school (in writing, no less-that certainly helped) that she would sue if
they gave him that info that the judge did anything....
Jess
~August
> house anyway? He has a lien on the house for the amount she owes him,
> right, set up as part of him signing over his part of the deed? So this
> could be resolved by her selling and paying you out as part of the
> closing before you even get to court.
>
> If he didn't sign over the deed, she can't list the house without his
> signature anyway (or at least she can't close without it), so you don't
> have to do anything there.
Yes, he could allow her to sell and settle the equity at sale, however her
petition for increased CS didn't say anything about the house and we have
counter filed to enforce the fact that she hasn't taken care of it already.
If she comes back and says she is willing to take care of it now, well, we
have already filed a complaint about her not taking care of it on time in
the first place. So she now has to go about taking care of the matter
through the current proceedings. And the only way to get us to agree to sign
the papers needed for her to sell the house right now is for her to agree to
settle on the max amount of equity payment allowed and provide DH
authorization to the kids health records.. We are not about to sign over
what she wants so she can sell the house, and give her the increased CS at
the same time, but then have to wait 3 or more months for our court date to
get what we want.
jane
>forgiveable.
>
>Vicki
And I just IM'd her that she couldn't help getting past it.
jane
~August
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Tabic.20272$432.11385@fed1read01...
> BM *should've* been giving tim full access to school and medical for
years;
> the statute reads that tim had "rights of access directly from the
custodian
> of the records"; the judge's question the first time was whether tim had
> gone directly to the school or the doctor...it wasn't until BM threatened
> the school (in writing, no less-that certainly helped) that she would sue
if
> they gave him that info that the judge did anything....
DH had gone through the medical office himself. Well, actually, he called.
They insisted they wont give him any information unless he shows up in
person with a certified copy of the divorce decree. We live over 5 hours
away in another state. The few times we have been in town were over
weekends. The gripe about the health issue is that she does not provide
proper documentation for reimbursement and when he refuses to pay she gives
a hassle... she finally sends a statement...DH pays... and then it happens
all over again the next time. She refuses to understand that DH does not
owe her half of what she pays, but rather half of what is not covered. We
don't need a copy of her written check showing she paid $40 and claiming we
owe $20. We need a statement showing the visit cost this much, insurance
paid (or is expected to pay) this much, and the balance is that much. He
owes half of THAT, not half of whatever she decides to provide a receipt
for. She complains about having to go through the trouble of getting
itemized statements and such. He has requested in writing more than once
that she comply with the agreement and authorize him access to the records.
See, the agreement specifically states that each parent will authorize the
other parent access to any school or medical provider that the children go
to. Anyway, it has just been such a hassle (and one of the things i think
he should have taken a day off work for and taken care of a long time
ago..but...) If he has been overpaying, we don't know by how much. He has
stood his ground the few times when large amounts of money were involved and
so far we have not found that she has been screwing us over. But now......
Youngest daughter is in ortho....we paid $1200 based on a 4 month old
estimate.... and she insists that she has no way of obtaining proof that the
entire bill was actually $2400. HUH!?!? Well, unless she gives us a copy
of the contract, which she wont do because that violates her privacy. Her
husband recently took a new job and we think he may have obtained dental
insurance and she has stuck us with the balance of the bill. Whether she
has or not is only half the issue. We want to know if she owes us $600 and
we want the hassles with future requests stopped.
~August
<babbling way to much. sorry>
~August
> something that you always have to remember is that a judge is an arbiter
of
> fact, he's not going to care who made which bed or who's sleeping in it or
> with which partner (sorry, bad joke, couldn't resist ;) )...he's going to
> look at the facts as they stand on their own merits and make a judgement
> based on that...
That is exactly what we are hoping for :-)
~August
badgirl
"The Watsons" <warped...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:t8bic.20269$432.6162@fed1read01...
Years ago when after DH divorced BM he and I managed to *slip through
the cracks* and sell his condo without BM's signature. There was no
profit from it because it was on the verge of foreclosure, but yes, it
IS possible for the house to be sold without her DH's sig.
Jen
Tracey
~August wrote:
> The gripe about the health issue is that she does not provide
> proper documentation for reimbursement and when he refuses to pay she gives
> a hassle... she finally sends a statement...DH pays... and then it happens
> all over again the next time.
We had sort of the same situation except DH's ex wouldn't pay anything
and send him the entire bill. From 1990 (the divorce) to about 1995,
he paid it all but complained and fumed about it. After about a year
of being married and hearing him complain about having to pay all of
the medical bills, I told him he could either keep complaining or
actually *do* something about it. After a couple of days, he gathered
up the bills, sent a check to the doctors for exactly half of the
amount on the bills and enclosed a copy of the decree where it stated
that they would split the uncovered costs. He also sent copies of all
of the checks and the bills and the letters he sent to the doctors
and dentists to his ex. From then on, he only ever paid half of the
bills again and not a word was heard from his ex.
Tracey
~August
news:40895EDD...@aol.com...
> . After about a year
> of being married and hearing him complain about having to pay all of
> the medical bills, I told him he could either keep complaining or
> actually *do* something about it.
Good for him! We don't have that problem since the accounts are in her name
only. I expect if that were our situation, he would have handled it the way
your DH did, and I would have handled it the way you did :-)
~August
heather m.
"Melissa" <laa...@aol.comNOSPAM> wrote in message
> >I read that to have a sarcastic tone which suggested that BM would not be
> >very cooperative if this (type of attitude) was what she had to deal with
> >and try to be co-operative with.
>
> Exactly. I certainly wouldn't want to deal with you guys. I'm not saying
> anythign about, and I'm sure that she is difficult, but it looks to me
like the
> being difficult goes both ways.
This is common sense, actually. It's so funny how a board like
step-parenting can show you how little common sense you have, like it did
me.
>
> >and the attitude from me
> >now (being cocky and unwilling to work with her on her terms) is a result
of
> >having to deal with her and her unacceptable actions for so long.
>
> No it's not a result of that. And this is something that bugs me. People
love
> to blame BM for their own behavior. It's so much easier than actually
looking
> at one's own issues. Making someone else responsible for your reactions
> doesn't do anything but give that person more power, and yourself a good
excuse
> not to change.
This is just huge. This is so huge it's bigger than huge. This is life.
August's attitude sounds like they are taking the role of Authority, like
they are doling out punishment. It's a big life lesson to learn that you
don't hold that position when it comes to any kind of relationship you have
in life, whether it be good, bad, partner, marriage, co-parents, enemies,
whatever. I love that you said this Melissa. It's one of those little notes
in my head that I refer back to constantly and one of the big things I want
to teach my child.
>
> >I don't get the impression that you
> >are warning me that things may not turn out how i expect,
>
> Actually that's exactly what I'm doing.
Usually that's what it takes to make yourself (at least it did me) to take
that finger and turn it around and point it at yourself and take a good,
hard look. You start to wonder why you are so consumed with drama,what it
is that's missing in your own life.
>
> >but rather that
> >you don't agree with the strong stance we are taking about not taking any
> >more of her BS and feeling good about being in a position to be able to
take
> >that stance and actually feeling good about being able to dish back to
her
> >some of what she has dished to us for the past four years.
>
> You don't know that you are in that position yet.
>
> >I don't think there is anything wrong with feeling good about seeing
someone
> >who has given you shit for so long get a taste of their own medicine.
>
> Well see I do, and it's one of the things that drives me nuts about
myself, but
> that's neither here or there really.
You go girl. I couldn't have said that any better.
Heather
>
>
> Love,
> Melissa
>
heather m.
You should try, as an experiment, not letting someone else dictate your
reactions.
Heather
>
heather m.
In other words, you are engaged in the war and just as shitty as she is for
fighting in it.
Heather
heather m.
"jane" <janel...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:20040423110909...@mb-m11.aol.com...
That is so, so, so, so meaningful Jane. You said it so much better than I
could have. Quit looking at the war and your pride and look at the goal
and the people in the middle (children). When you're engaged in the war,
the goal gets lost and goes to shit. Everyone is so consumed with their
pride that it becomes a battle of who is better and who is REALLY the boss
here (tongue in cheek).
That said, I think the best quote I heard regarding revenge was (and I can't
remember who wrote it) "You can't drag someone down without having to go
down with them yourself to get them there." It may not have gone exactly
like that, but that is the gist of it. You can't drown someone without
having to go in the water yourself and staying in it to keep them there.
Heather
>
> jane
August
"heather m." <heather...@ipa.net> wrote in message
news:4Fgic.6740$eZ5....@newsread1.news.pas.earthlink.net...
> This is just huge. This is so huge it's bigger than huge. This is life.
> August's attitude sounds like they are taking the role of Authority, like
> they are doling out punishment.
Not at all. I know i have no ultimate power here. My power rests in what
the courts will say. I feel that power will be to my favor and i look
forward to that. I enjoy knowing that we are the ones that are pressing the
issues that may make her uncomfortable. Every time we had to "suck it up"
we reminded ourself that her time would come. That we would have our day. I
am enjoying the moment.
>
> Usually that's what it takes to make yourself (at least it did me) to take
> that finger and turn it around and point it at yourself and take a good,
> hard look. You start to wonder why you are so consumed with drama,what it
> is that's missing in your own life.
Not consumed at all. You are making my situation out to be much more than
it is. She wants some papers signed...we want some papers signed. What she
wants is more important to her than what we want is important to us. She
has been refusing to sign for four years for no good reason. She will now
be forced to sign or not get what she wants. We are the ones dictating that
that is how it will be. Nothing comsuming at all. Just a little happy
dance :-)
~August
August
> You should try, as an experiment, not letting someone else dictate your
> reactions.
Sometimes you don't have time to stop before your reaction kicks in and you
have to step back. I don't need to step back. I don't want to step back.
As I said, I have no problem seeing her get a taste of her own medicine and
enjoying it.
~August
August
> In other words, you are engaged in the war and just as shitty as she is
for
> fighting in it.
See it how you like. I see nothing wrong with standing up for what is right
for me. I see nothing wrong with not letting someone walk all over me
because someone else calls that stooping to their level. DH has held his
tongue and his actions for four years while she acted shitty toward us for
no good reason. He has held back "because of the children". Not wanting
to initiate any court proceeding that would allow her to tell her kids that
he is taking her to court and being a big meany. Now She has initiated
something and he is taking this opportunity to finally enforce their order.
I wouldn't have let her get away with it for this long and am THRILLED that
he is finally doing something about it. And it will be a good feeling to
see her get a taste of her own medicine.
~August
Geri and sometimes Brian
>reactions.
People who think this way fascinate me. So basically you are saying that if,
for example, someone you don't particularly like came up and gut-punched you
that you would not react. Not only that but after you had the chance to
recover from the first punch, the same person did it again. Still no reaction?
What if this continued to happen again and again and again and there was never
any consequence for that person. Maybe you would try to find out why the
person was punching you, try to understand that person's feelings and all the
touchy-feely stuff. Maybe the only reason the person has is that you exist.
After a while, maybe you think you have worked things out and then BOOM another
punch. This is what it is like for some of us who deal with crazy exes, only
the punches are psychological.
You have pretty good control if you can keep from reacting when this goes on
over and over and over. I salute you.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Geri and sometimes Brian
>fighting in it.
I don't see how anyone who doesn't live in her shoes can pass judgment. You
know what else? When you have to deal with shit all the time, sometimes it
feels pretty damn good to jump off the high road and dish some back. Something
else I wonder if people are forgetting is that some people (I am one of them.)
can talk some pretty big smack when posting, but in reality are working it out
so that they don't actually do the stuff or project the attitude that may come
across in the post. If I work out something here, it may keep me from
bitch-slapping BM in real life, if you see my meaning.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Geri and sometimes Brian
>remember who wrote it) "You can't drag someone down without having to go
>down with them yourself to get them there."
Unless you put cement shoes on them before you throw them in.
My favorite quote about revenge is that it is best served cold.
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!
Geri and sometimes Brian
>enjoying it.
You know what - if nobody else here gets it, I get it. :-)
~~Geri~~
Throw Big Red!