BioMom with BPD
Neuminosum
Crazy times are here again. After a few visits (3 kids going to visit biomom
four days a week-no overnights), she's blown it again. The youngest kid has an
ear infection, and because of the pain, she was taken to the doctor the morning
she was supposed to go on a visit. Her symptoms came at 3:00 in the morning.
My husband spoke briefly with the ex, telling her of the kid's diagnosis. He
was accused of some transparent plot against her (the other two were dropped
off on time-as always). The youngest went over after an hour's sleep and some
lunch, with advise to let her rest and play at the house.
The kids came home to tell that the youngest was immediately sent off with the
parent of a friend, ran errands with the other parent, and came back to the
house just in time to return home. She was sobbing in pain when she came home,
complaining that she was dizzy, but wasn't given a choice to rest, had a bath
and immediately went to bed.
This is the most recent in a series of incidents which harm the kids, and
though visitation is about as limited as it gets for a Mommie short of
terminating parental rights, we wish there was a way to keep the kids safe. I
guess we just shouldn't send the kids over when they're ill-their father is the
one who draws that line (fever/vomiting they stay home).
Any ideas?
Vicki Robinson
In a previous article, neumi...@aol.com (Neuminosum) said:
>This is the most recent in a series of incidents which harm the kids, and
>though visitation is about as limited as it gets for a Mommie short of
>terminating parental rights, we wish there was a way to keep the kids safe. I
>guess we just shouldn't send the kids over when they're ill-their father is the
>one who draws that line (fever/vomiting they stay home).
>
Is there any chance of getting an order to require *supervised* visitation if
one of the kids is sick? I realize that your husband's ex has some
mental/emotional stability problems, which means that you can't really reason
with her, nor expect her to be able to follow a mediated agreement about
appropriate activities for a sick child.
Personally, I would (and this is just me, of course) tell her that when one
of the kids is sick, she can come over and visit the child at *my* house, but
that the child stays put. I realize that you maight not want her within 100
miles of your place, but it might be worth it to the kids themselves to know
that they can still see their mom, but that you will keep them safe when
they're sick.
Vicki
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S&V Moroz
NO advice, but sympathy...
Only my steps are with their mother more...she is unstable to say the
least...symptoms are like BPD, but we are not sure. She has been in the
hospital and placed on meds 2X in the last couple of years....the last
time was late last summer so her med subscription should run out soon
and things will get rocky again anytime I think.
She is extrememly unreasonable and insecure...thus very threatened by my
relationship with her kids, especially her daughter. She has harrassed
my husband continuously and made death threats against me. And she is
neglectful and abusive to the kids...
Basically she hates me because I love her kids.....and because I do not
take any bulls**t from her and tell her what I think at times (though
this just revives her hate for me).
Unfortunately the courts do not see *Dad's* side, or the kids side (they
would like more time with us) and overlook her abuse as Dad being
vindictive!!!
All I can say is that I am glad your husband has custody of his kids....
Shawna
Neuminosum
(by original poster)
Thank you both for responding. The kids visits were supervised for 2.5 years.
That ended when the court decided the kids were old enough to talk if they felt
or were indeed violated by the biomom. The thinking was that the kids need to
see the crazy parent enough to know she's crazy, but never enough that they
have to rely on her for parenting (no overnights, no vacations, no school,
phone or letter access).
Between the original post and this one, the ex called to berate our attorney,
who is an amazing woman. The attorney was able to tell the ex that the father
of the kids had already spoken with her that very weekend, and that she, the
attorney, had recommended that the child not go on the visit at all. I don't
know if there was any discussion about the fact that the ill child was
immediately passed off on another woman. The attorney simply was able to
confirm that the ex was in one of her "WAY OUT THERE" periods.
Aside from her delusional thoughts that there is some conspiracy against her,
she could not state what it was she needed help with, not could she present an
issue that we could respond to within the realm of reality. Having passed the
child off on somebody else during her visit, she sure couldn't make much of a
case for not getting time with her.
The main problem we have (and there aren't many left with the court order we
have), is watching the craziness play out, always on the edge of being
criminal, but not blantantly enouh to prosecute. there be a prosecution,
supervised visits may again be in order.
Miss Posey
this is kind of neither here nor there, but I grew up with BPD mom, and the
best thing that you can do to help someone with BPD is just to always be
clear,clear, clear. Put things in writing for her, explain things as many
times as it takes for her to understand. The problem with BPD is that it
forces the ill person to create their own reality, and the edges can get
very foggy. It is VERY frustrating, but that is what I had to spend 18
years living with (until I moved out) and will spend the rest of my life
handling. BPD forces family members to treat the ill person like a child,
in a way. I am not saying that what your ex did was right, 'cos it wasn't,
but as I think we all agree, it's up to you to *help* the biomom by being
100% clear with her to such an extreme that you approach being patronizing.
In my opinion, it is important for the kids to understand that their mom has
a sickness, but it's also important for you to reinforce that she can't
*help* being "crazy," and I would also caution you regarding the use of that
word. It's very painful to be hear that your mom is crazy *even* when you
know there is some truth to it. Yes, it's her fault if she doesn't take her
meds, but it's not her fault that her biological chemistry is screwy. It's
like eyesight...if you're really near-sighted, it's not your fault that you
can't see, but it's up to you to wear your glasses, right?
Best of luck to you with dealing with her and future earaches!
Posey
Neuminosum wrote in message
<19980226044...@ladder03.news.aol.com>...
SoccerStepMom
Oh, I am so glad to hear from an adult whose Mom has BPD, because my
husband's ex likely does (his son's therapist thinks so, but she has not
been officially diagnosed, nor do we have the standing to request that
she be).
Anyway, her behavior is killing my 11 YO stepson, because he has no
reason to think her clinging, unhappy, "I miss you soooooooo much"
behavior is anything other than the reasonable response of a Mom who
loves him.
I guess my question is: how do you keep a BPD ex from making her
reality also true for the kids? My stepson's therapist is helping some
in this, but it is hard. Any thoughts on how you came to recognize your
Mom for what she was, good and bad, and not let it get to you?
Thanks for any help you can give. SSM
S&V Moroz
SoccerStepMom wrote:
>
> Oh, I am so glad to hear from an adult whose Mom has BPD, because my
> husband's ex likely does (his son's therapist thinks so, but she has not
> been officially diagnosed, nor do we have the standing to request that
> she be).
>
> Anyway, her behavior is killing my 11 YO stepson, because he has no
> reason to think her clinging, unhappy, "I miss you soooooooo much"
> behavior is anything other than the reasonable response of a Mom who
> loves him.
>
> I guess my question is: how do you keep a BPD ex from making her
> reality also true for the kids? My stepson's therapist is helping some
> in this, but it is hard. Any thoughts on how you came to recognize your
> Mom for what she was, good and bad, and not let it get to you?
>
> Thanks for any help you can give. SSM
>
Ditto!!! My step-kids mother is, IMO, mentally ill in some way. She
seems to fit the bill for BPD though....and has been hospitalized for
"nervous breakdowns" and given meds...which improve her rationality
significantly (which is scary because she is still unreasonable).
But lately she has been much better towards the kids (daughter in
particular)...in an attempt to "keep" them with her I think....but at
least she is not as overtly abusive....the emotional coersion is still
there though. And the kids are happier and my sd feels her mother has
changed (on a superficial level)....and now behaves how her mother wants
and does not stand up to her on important issues in order to prevent
fights (and possibly being hit). I understand her actions, but I
bothers me that she is allowing her mother to control her because she is
becoming more and more a "victim". I think that my sd also feels that
if she rebels in anyway that it will push her Mom back into the hospital
(and I have no doubt that the woman has basically told the kids it is
their fault!).
How does a child who bears so much weight and gets the guilt trip so
much stand up and say "Mom, I really do love you, but I refuse to allow
you to treat me like this??" She is only 12 and already will answer a
question with what she thinks we want to hear rather than answer
honestly because it will hurt our feelings......like over clothes I find
and think she might like..she is afraid to tell me she doesn't because
her mother gets mad at her for expressing dislike of a new item!!! I
get PO'd if she doesn't tell me and it sits in the closet never worn!!!
Shawna
Miss Posey
well, let me begin by saying that my mother was only diagnosed a few years
ago, and two of her best friends are a doctor & a therapist and *THEY*
didn't even catch it, so it's a sneaky illness. She was just always thought
to be eccentric, perpetually late, bad with money, over-emotional, "crazy"
(in a nice way), et cetera... and it was initially a weight off our
shoulders to be able to say "so THAT'S why Mom is always
late/broke/over-reacting..." I thought it was normal for moms to only sleep
a few hours each night and to cry for hours over something small, like
losing a button off a shirt!
The way I came to realise that she was the way she IS was when she started
doing things that were hurting me - I think I was about 13. She was ALWAYS
late (used to forget to pick me up after school, so I'd wait several hours,
sometimes outside) and I started to think of her as being selfish. Nobody
else's mom forgot to get them after ballet class. Nobody else had to call 5
places to track down where their mother was on a school night. Of course,
my mother always felt horrible & would apologize profusely, promise to not
be late next time (which she always was) and I would feel really guilty.
Then, when my father left (I was 16) my sister and I REALLY had to look
after Mom. At 17 I was running the household, working at my own
after-school job, working my mother's 2nd job because she kept being late...
it was hell. She was put on Prozac and it (combined with the divorce) pushed
her over the edge. She became violent (threatened us with knives, even,
which was NOT her way at all - she only spanked me twice in my entire
childhood) and when it finally blew up one night and she flung my sister
across the room, we called my father and left for 6 weeks (he lived an hour
away). We needed to physically get away from her for her to see that
*SOMETHING* was not right.
SSM & Shawna, it's a tough call since the BM hasn't been diagnosed. I
wouldn't dream of telling you the best thing to do, but what worked for me
(and for my younger sister, who really bore the brunt of it and ended up
mothering our mom during her last 2 years of HS) was to just lay down the
law, so to speak. The best way for us was to simply confront the problem
head-on. It hurt! Badly! I mean, who wants to admit that their Mom is a
sick person who needs help? However, by confronting it rather than
tip-toeing around it, we also managed to go THROUGH it and come out on the
other side. We had to stop paying the bills & my mother had to have her car
repossessed, her phone shut off, and her credit cards taken away before she
began to see that there was something wrong...
Regarding the good behavior of the 12 y.o. SD at the cost of her honesty,
it's a tough call. Although it makes life "better", she's not helping her
mom by being extra good, just like I wasn't helping my mother by spending my
entire college breaks cleaning the house from top to bottom, covering her at
her (extra) housecleaning jobs and paying the bills. I think you have the
answer - she needs to say exactly what you've written there, but only when
she's ready to face the consequences. It was heartbreaking to tell my
mother that although I loved her, that I couldn't be around her if she
wasn't on her meds - but I did, and we now have a clear understanding. I
would say work on your relationship with her and discuss the fact that her
mom may be sick. Confront your SD in a nice way and tell her that you
understand why she might not feel comfortable telling her mom 100% of the
truth, but that you can handle it, and that you WANT to handle it. She
needs to see you being able to manage problems - that's what my sister &
looked for in the other adults in our life. In fact, it was what I looked
for in boyfriends & friends, and it's how my fiance is. My sister is the
same way. Make her "test" you!
Shawna, when the mom is re-hospitalized (and she WILL be, trust me - happens
about twice a year) I would STRONGLY encourage you to have your SD visit
her. It will be the hardest thing she ever does, but I believe it would be
really good for her, and help her to put things in perspective. Her mother
will always have this imbalance. It will never go away. However, it *CAN*
be managed if the moms are willing to admit to their illness (which even my
mother doesn't quite do after nearly 4 years) and ask for appropriate help.
SoccerStepMom, your 11 y.o. (sadly) has to be a part of his BM's "reality" -
but you can help him see that what seems real to her is usually part
fantasy. When he's had a disturbing conversation or visit with her, talk to
him about it. Acknowledge that these kids are going to feel HORRIBLE for
pointing out that their moms are wrong, but deep down, they KNOW that
something's not right. I'm sure his therapist will be able to help you
figure out the best way to do this.
These kids need to understand that their moms have something wrong with the
chemicals in their body but that they're not BAD. Again, without diagnosis,
this is a grey area, but I would say that they're both lucky to have you and
are ALREADY way ahead of where I was.
Posey
Neuminosum
<<How does a child who bears so much weight and gets the guilt trip so much
Our kids said it with their therapist present. The therapist that confronted
reported their mother for sexually molesting the kids. The mother was called in
to a meeting with the children, and the middle child, then 4 or 5, confronted
his mother about how she broke the Doctor's rules aobut good touching and bad
touching.
They also confronted her about telling them to lie to the doctor about her
behavior and manipulation.
The sexual deviency seemed to stem from the BPD, especially when the mother was
feeling lonely--she jus tcouldn't recognize appropriate boundaries between her
role as parent and her role as wounded/needy sexual adult.
So many people saw bits and pieces of distrubing behavior, both with the kids
and without. In the final diagnosis she was determined to be Borderline, Have
Hysterical Personality Disorder and an inability to accurately test reality.
(better her than me).
The flare ups (like what we saw this weeked-THE CONSPIRACY) used to go on
constantly. She would cry at the preschool, she would cry when there was a
restraining order brought agatinst her, then blame it all on my now husband.
Thanks for all your thoughtful responses. Though we are far beyond trying to
"help" the ex, we have a court order which keeps the lines pretty clear. We
cant stop the craziness, but we can try to keep it from getting into our home.
Maria
How common is it for a BPD parent to sexually molest their child? My
SO's ex has the classic symptoms of BPD and she is (and always has been)
obsessed with her 4 year old son (i.e. breastfed until 2.5 - 3
yrs.[which I know is somewhat common], slept with mom & dad up until dad
left-don't know if he still does, she doesn't want dad in his life, he
gets in trouble if he doesn't call her "mommy", she hangs out at his
pre-school while he's in class - all day every day, etc.) I'm not
accusing her of anything, but I've always said that her relationship
with her son is as close to incest as you can get without actually
involving sex. Please, no flames - I'm totally serious.
xyzj...@primary.net
On Mon, 02 Mar 1998 07:14:35 -0800, Maria <va...@tdi.net> wrote:
>How common is it for a BPD parent to sexually molest their child? My
>SO's ex has the classic symptoms of BPD and she is (and always has been)
>obsessed with her 4 year old son (i.e. breastfed until 2.5 - 3
>yrs.[which I know is somewhat common], slept with mom & dad up until dad
>left-don't know if he still does, she doesn't want dad in his life, he
>gets in trouble if he doesn't call her "mommy", she hangs out at his
>pre-school while he's in class - all day every day, etc.) I'm not
>accusing her of anything, but I've always said that her relationship
>with her son is as close to incest as you can get without actually
>involving sex. Please, no flames - I'm totally serious.
This is interesting, because I question BPD's, and hypersexuality in
general. Anyone have any anecdotal stuff? I can point to two that I
know. Just wondering if that rings a bell with anybody else.
Jeffrey
remove xyz to reply
King/Furnish
never happened to us - but I have heard of this happening...
Neuminosum
>Please, no flames - I'm totally serious.
While I couldn't tell you how common the link is between BPD and sexually
inappropriate behavior, we did ask the kids' doctor to talk with them about
good touching/bad touching because of some of the things the kids had said and
the babysitters saw.
My understanding of the nature of deviency in this case is that the mother's
needs had to be met, and how they were met was of little interest to her.
Hence, the children were there, the mother met her needs. It seems that BPD
leaves the afflicted with no ability to assess appropriate boundaries and
children, who learn their boundaries from the adults around them, do not know
when they are young that this kind of behavior (sexual touching) in
inappropriate. Most especially when the adult is so willing to change reality
for them, tell them they do not remember things right, overawe them with
statements that they are always being watched, etc...
mo...@ibm.net
Thanks Miss Posey,
We do try to talk to my sd about things and let her know that some of
the things her Mom does is wrong......without being mean to her mom.
I have discussed with her the best things are often hard to come by and
we have to fight for what we truely want in life. We stand behind her
and she knows that the next step is hers to take and that we will be
there for her. She trusts us unconditionally that way and knows we only
want what is best for her. I've also told her that I understand why she
is hesitant to make any changes.
My biggest fear is that she will have to be drug to the bottom again
before she does anything......I envision her is bad relationships with
boys etc because she has her mom as a role model...but thankfully she
also has her Dad and I!!! I just hope it doesn't come too late is
all.....
All I can do is be here to suport her and let her lean on me when she
needs it...and *kick her butt* when she needs it too <grin>..it has just
been so hard to see the vivacious, self-confident, inquisitive child I
first met become a meek, insecure pawn at the hands of her own mother!!!
But here I stand and will stay for her and her brother....
Shawna
SoccerStepMom
Oh, my God.... how do we tell if something like this could be a
problem? The older son is having a lot of trouble in many areas of his
life, and is going out of his way to protect his Mom (as an example,
she didn't take him to soccer practice Sunday, and he lied and said she
had; when we found out, he said he didn't want her to get in
trouble....)
I do know that they take turns sleeping in her bed when they are with
her (from their converation when they come home). Are they too old (11
and nearly 8) to be sleeping in the same bed as their Mom?
Is this something we should have someone probe? How do we bring it
up?????? SSM
janelaw
Maria wrote:
>
>
> How common is it for a BPD parent to sexually molest their child? My
> SO's ex has the classic symptoms of BPD and she is (and always has been)
> obsessed with her 4 year old son (i.e. breastfed until 2.5 - 3
> yrs.[which I know is somewhat common], slept with mom & dad up until dad
> left-don't know if he still does, she doesn't want dad in his life, he
> gets in trouble if he doesn't call her "mommy", she hangs out at his
> pre-school while he's in class - all day every day, etc.) I'm not
> accusing her of anything, but I've always said that her relationship
> with her son is as close to incest as you can get without actually
I don't get it. How can a relationship be incestuous without
actually involving sex? She sounds like a caring, involved
mother who has issues about her ex. Aren't we all?
Neuminosum
>I don't get it. How can a relationship be incestuous without
>actually involving sex? She sounds like a caring, involved
>mother who has issues about her ex. Aren't we all?
Janelaw:
Unfortunately, the answer to your questions is NO. Some parents use their
kids as a crutch or playing piece(though of course there are those who work
together in the best interest of the kids in spite of the trials of divorce).
Combine this with mental illness and I would not call it being a caring and
involved parent.
Some actions are just not of one's own style, some are culturally out of the
norm, some are downright weird, and on occasion, criminal.