"If a woman wants any kind of ordinary life..............
June Hingle
leave any T "community" behind her."
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
That is a very interesting quote. It wasn't written by some wannabe
or a person who is stealth or has left the T community behind her. It
was written by someone who has been fairly active in SST and ASSRS and
has shared in the support along with the insults and has been post-op
for some time now.
I hope she doesn't think I am trying to stir up the dust. I am not.
I have often wondered what it takes to go stealth completely or to
completely sever all ties with all of the other people who have been
there for me to lean on or who have depended on me for guidance of one
sort or another.
The only way I could possibly jump off this train would be to just do
it, perhaps even take out my frustration by slamming a sledgehammer
into my computer screen. That would answer it actually. It would be
"that" easy. But no, I will still have to send and receive
emails...what a bummer!
So who sets the example for us? Someone who goes stealth and leaves
the community? That's like asking a dead person how's life on the
other side, not that some of us haven't done it...oh, hi Elvis! @:)
With all due respect...Does it give us an ordinary life? What is
ordinary? It is just something you do period. After all, we weren't
born TS. Like another said, "like having a pimple". It's not
something you will necessarily have forever. But some have had more
of their share than others, and sometimes the memory of how they
looked, felt and how people treated them through the years may have
left scars that will never go away. For some, going Stealth and
walking away from the T community is easier said than done.
I wish everyone well.
Yours truly,
June Hingle (the real one)
*************************************************************
it shows that you have class when you always speak the truth.
after all....i am a lady ~ i picked my name, not my nose.
*************************************************************
Caillean McMahon
June Hingle wrote:
>
> "If a woman wants any kind of ordinary life she must be stealth and
> leave any T "community" behind her."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
><snip of a delicious piece
>
> I wish everyone well.
>
> Yours truly,
>
> June Hingle (the real one)
>
June;
Very well done. You among others, has been there for me at times and
I have benefitted from your advice and wisdom.
hugs;
Caillean
Caillean McMahon
>
> She is a goody isn't she? I think so, but then so are you sis. =}
>
> --
> Natasha
Thank you Tasha:) as are you, precious friend.
hugs;
Caillean
Roxanne L
"Elaine" <elai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ykG09.7980$XG5....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
>
> To be truthful, no, it does not give the same "ordinary life" as a woman
> born female because even though you may go long periods never thinking
about
> it, you will be reminded at times. When you meet someone you care about
and
> perhaps wish an intimate relationship with. When you see your doctor (who
> should know). When you have family members visit or a visit from an old
> friend who knew you before................... But it will be as close to
an
> ordinary life as possible for you.
>
> Elaine
>
>
I wonder what kind of "ordinary life" one could have when you're carrying
the terrible secret of being trans around, living in fear that the people in
your
community could find out. There've been cases where police officers checked
into the history of trans women, and leaked the news to the locals. What
if you're in some sort of accident and have to go to the hospital. They'll
find out.
What if a neighbor notices you have exceptionally large hands for a woman
and
puts two and two together.
Frankly, I choose a "happy" life over an "ordinary" one any day.
rox
B
then you have the others telling you they're right afterall. Despite what we
know to be true for ourselves and our friends.
After years of saying nowt - and to be truthful getting something out this
place.. I thought I might have something to offer. Its not going to happen
it real life becauses I don't associate. Coming back I wonder why I
bothered.
Its bad enough with all the shit flying about to wade through, but when you
get those that can't understand at such a basic level.... isn't it what
everyone here strives for, to not have anything but past, present and future
for being themselves. Female, Male - not being T anything. If they are happy
being seens as a T fine, but having a go at the rest of us 'for living in
fear of being discovered' just takes the biscuit. They can justify
themselves in anyway they want, but why like the TGs does it involve
knocking us?
I don't think I'll bother again.
"Elaine" <elai...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:ykG09.7980$XG5....@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
>
> "June Hingle" <june_...@hotmail.com> wrote
>
> > "If a woman wants any kind of ordinary life she must be stealth and
> > leave any T "community" behind her."
> > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
> >
> > That is a very interesting quote. It wasn't written by some wannabe
> > or a person who is stealth or has left the T community behind her. It
> > was written by someone who has been fairly active in SST and ASSRS and
> > has shared in the support along with the insults and has been post-op
> > for some time now.
>
> You're wrong. The only "connection" I have with any "T community", if
there
> is such a thing, is right here. I have a couple of personal friends who
also
> have little connection with any community. We do get together on occassion
> but our daily lives are far different and many miles apart.
>
> > I hope she doesn't think I am trying to stir up the dust. I am not.
>
> You're welcome to stir up all the "dust" you wish.
>
> > I have often wondered what it takes to go stealth completely or to
> > completely sever all ties with all of the other people who have been
> > there for me to lean on or who have depended on me for guidance of one
> > sort or another.
>
> It takes living in a community where know one knows. Often one must move
to
> that community, as I did, and start all over again. If you need someone to
> "lean on", you're not ready for that yet.
>
> > The only way I could possibly jump off this train would be to just do
> > it, perhaps even take out my frustration by slamming a sledgehammer
> > into my computer screen. That would answer it actually. It would be
> > "that" easy. But no, I will still have to send and receive
> > emails...what a bummer!
>
> Make the distinction. Usenet is not RL. It has little or nothing to do
with
> living your daily life unless you make it so.
>
> > So who sets the example for us? Someone who goes stealth and leaves
> > the community? That's like asking a dead person how's life on the
> > other side, not that some of us haven't done it...oh, hi Elvis! @:)
>
> You must choose for yourself. Again, if you don't think you can do it,
> you're not ready to.
>
> > With all due respect...Does it give us an ordinary life? What is
> > ordinary? It is just something you do period. After all, we weren't
> > born TS. Like another said, "like having a pimple". It's not
> > something you will necessarily have forever. But some have had more
> > of their share than others, and sometimes the memory of how they
> > looked, felt and how people treated them through the years may have
> > left scars that will never go away. For some, going Stealth and
> > walking away from the T community is easier said than done.
>
Diane
<roxa...@angelfire.com> wrote:
>
>I wonder what kind of "ordinary life" one could have when you're carrying
>the terrible secret of being trans around, living in fear that the people in
>your
>community could find out.
There's a world of difference between "living in fear" and knowing
what business is personal and should be kept to ones self.
Successful transsexuals understand that difference.
June Hingle
>>>June, Your full name, photo, history and much information about you
is all
over the internet. All one has to do is enter your name in Google and
there
are pages of links. That's not being "stealth" in any sense of the
word.<<<
Elaine, here is where I have to disagree with you.
The listing in Switchboard.com was put there by them after extracting
it from the SNET WhitePages. I do not have an unlisted number. Until
I do my name, address and phone number will be valid. That has
nothing to do with my personal life other than that it identifies me
and the fact that I exist.
If being Stealth means completely hiding your past identity from the
public then you are not either. You said it yourself:
>>>My name appears in the news group archives many times but only as
Elaine, and
only a few here know if that is really my name or not. Sure, a
determined
person could find info on me or anyone, but why would they want to?<<<
Why would anyone want to post my information on the net? They did!
It was not requested by me nor was that person acting with good cause
when she did it. Your friend has done this freely with many people.
The majority of all flames and outings (as I see it) have been
prompted by "your friend". Several people have witnessed her talking
to the sockpuppets and trolls agreeing that they don't like someone
and agreeing with some very asinine crap that ends up getting spewed
all over....all initiated by "your friend". Of course no one will
touch you, you are her friend and you know that as long as you are
that is the way things will remain. No one else in these forums has
the lack of disrespect for anyone's personal life more than she, and
no one here would have any cause to "out" you because they will not
stoop to the same level she has redundantly gone.
That is one basic aspect of our differences that will *never* change.
Your "stealth" is protected. Mine and the other's is not, not here or
anywhere Diane chooses to habitate.
Yours truly,
June Hingle
Jennifer Usher
"Roxanne L" <roxa...@angelfire.com> wrote in message
news:ai063...@enews2.newsguy.com...
> > To be truthful, no, it does not give the same "ordinary life" as a woman
> > born female because even though you may go long periods never thinking
> >about it, you will be reminded at times. When you meet someone you care
about
> > and perhaps wish an intimate relationship with. When you see your doctor
(who
> > should know). When you have family members visit or a visit from an old
> > friend who knew you before................... But it will be as close to
an
> > ordinary life as possible for you.
> >
> I wonder what kind of "ordinary life" one could have when you're carrying
> the terrible secret of being trans around, living in fear that the people
in your
> community could find out. There've been cases where police officers
checked
> into the history of trans women, and leaked the news to the locals. What
> if you're in some sort of accident and have to go to the hospital.
They'll
> find out.
If you are a post-op, there is no reason for anyone to find out anything
unless you tell them. I suppose if a police officer did an extensive enough
check it might come up, but since I don't generally have dealings with the
police, that is not an issue for me.
> What if a neighbor notices you have exceptionally large hands for a woman
and
> puts two and two together.
Sorry, but my hands are quite normal sized for a woman. <g>
> Frankly, I choose a "happy" life over an "ordinary" one any day.
IF, for you, a happy life is had by being the village transsexual, or more
likely, the village crossdresser, that is fine. I don't care for that. I am
quite happy being a woman. I realize some just cannot grasp this. For
some, happiness IS being "trans." They are not women, they are simply men
with a desire to dress as women. For them, it is that dichotomy between the
role of woman, and the physicality of being a man that is important. I
recall Robert Stiller writing about how crossdressers wish to be "women with
penises." I remember thinking how silly that was, since I, at the time,
mistakenly thought that I was simply a crossdresser. That very idea seemed
silly to me. Now I begin to wonder if I didn't misjudge him on that issue.
For many of us, an ordinary life IS a happy life.
--
Jennifer Usher
Jennifer Usher
"Diane" <diane...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:uk7hu6i...@news.supernews.com...
> There's a world of difference between "living in fear" and knowing
> what business is personal and should be kept to ones self.
>
> Successful transsexuals understand that difference.
Quite true.
--
Jennifer Usher
Hannah Schroeter
Jennifer Usher <jen...@otelco.net> wrote:
>[...]
>If you are a post-op, there is no reason for anyone to find out anything
>unless you tell them. I suppose if a police officer did an extensive enough
>check it might come up, but since I don't generally have dealings with the
>police, that is not an issue for me.
Oh, there are enough people to be sensitive enough to read you
as woman with transsexual biography. At least, that's my experience,
and I don't think I've all too bad off. Interestingly, there's a
tendency that they are lesbian, gay, or questioning their gender,
or have been questioning their gender in the past.
Then, there's all kinds of evidence that may be out there.
>[...]
Besides that, there *is* in my eyes a need out of honesty to
tell some (few) people who are in some kind of intimate
relationship to you, e.g. *good* friends, and partners in
relationships aimed to be long-time.
Kind regards,
Hannah.
Lilith
<roxa...@angelfire.com> wrote:
>I wonder what kind of "ordinary life" one could have when you're carrying
>the terrible secret of being trans around, living in fear that the people in
>your
>community could find out. There've been cases where police officers checked
>into the history of trans women, and leaked the news to the locals.
That would be an interesting situation in my case. The police
department in my town has an MTF on it's force as of a year and a half
ago. Since we're also good friends I'd at least have an "in" to
lodging a complaint. Not that I'm utterly stealth. I transitioned at
work, but I'd rather my neighborhood not know. Last Friday one of my
next door neighbors came over for the first time to check on something
and also brought me a handful of tomatoes that they'd grown in their
yard.
>What
>if you're in some sort of accident and have to go to the hospital. They'll
>find out.
>What if a neighbor notices you have exceptionally large hands for a woman
>and
>puts two and two together.
Which equals two exceptionally large hands.
>Frankly, I choose a "happy" life over an "ordinary" one any day.
Same here, but we each have our own idea of what happy is. To some, a
happy life might be an ordinary one.
>rox
Lil
Juliea Malvina
> What if a neighbor notices you have exceptionally large hands for a woman
> and puts two and two together.
The problem of large hands is easily addressed by hand reduction
surgery. Each of the phalanges and metacarpals is shortened and
shaved circumferentially by 17 to 32 percent, depending on the
patient's overall demeanor and habitus. This was required by all
gender programs up until 1969 and even today most 100% passable
transsexuals opt for HRS when they go stealth. It's a simple and cost
effective measure that goes a long way toward guaranteeing a normal
life.
Diane
wrote:
>The problem of large hands is easily addressed by hand reduction
>surgery. Each of the phalanges and metacarpals is shortened and
>shaved circumferentially by 17 to 32 percent, depending on the
>patient's overall demeanor and habitus. This was required by all
>gender programs up until 1969 and even today most 100% passable
>transsexuals opt for HRS when they go stealth. It's a simple and cost
>effective measure that goes a long way toward guaranteeing a normal
>life.
Kaa went to Dr H. and had that done but she reported that her
fingernails still made her unpassable anyway so I don't think it's a
good use of one's money.
KarenA1013
>shaved circumferentially by 17 to 32 percent, depending on the
>patient's overall demeanor and habitus. This was required by all
>gender programs up until 1969 and even today most 100% passable
>transsexuals opt for HRS when they go stealth.
LOL!
- karen
Juliea Malvina
Diane wrote:
> Kaa went to Dr H. and had that done but she reported that her
> fingernails still made her unpassable anyway so I don't think it's a
> good use of one's money.
I take it you're referring to the late Dr. Hans Housenhoffer of the
Hanshaus Klinik in Morocco. Now there was a master of his craft. "Dr.
Hands," as he was lovingly referred to by legions of grateful
transsexuals, remained a mysterious figure for much of his career and
never received full credit for his innovative work, since his patients
generally just blended in as normal females once he'd worked his magic
on them.
Juliea Malvina
Elaine wrote:
> I've heard that the only problem any of his patients ever had was if they
> had "poor fat distribution", when all the fat ended up in their little tiny
> hands instead of their butt.
Yes, it was known to happen, although the complication could usually be
corrected by a fingulo-buttoplasty, a simple outpatient procedure in which the
fat was siphoned off to where it should have gone in the first place. However,
not everyone with excessive fat buildup in the hands elected to undergo
corrective surgery. Although they were unable to insert their fingers through
the little holes in coffee mugs, some apparently felt that the benefits of
eliminating caffeine were worth the inconvenience.
Karen
> I've heard that the only problem any of his patients ever had was if they
> had "poor fat distribution", when all the fat ended up in their little tiny
> hands instead of their butt.
But do theu have a sugery for poor humanity distribution,, , several
here certainly got shorted...
- karen
Dyan Fassett
>in article 3D45C75F...@yahoo.com, Juliea Malvina at insi...@yahoo.com
>wrote on 7/29/02 3:52 PM:
>HRS? Come ON! Hands being so delicate and complicated, I could not think of
>a worse idea. If your damn hands are that big, move to Texas. Anyone can
>pass there. All you need is a close shave, thick makeup, a dress and purse.
Ain't that the truth. Half the REAL women in Texas look like unpassable
trannies to begin with. An intersexed freak like you would feel right at home.
Hey, I'm shipping you out to Austin first thing tomorrow morning!
>So these are the brave and bold self appointed post-op guardians of assrs,
>protecting newbies from snake oil salesmen and fako TS wannabees?
>
>You just hate the competition, is that it?
>
>It is all very funny to you, but some poor newbie may take you seriously. I
>think it is irresponsible to post such misinformation, even for a joke.
Don't be stupid. Not everyone needs a full-body electrolysis session once a
month like Karen. Even the newbies know that.
Dyan
Amanda Angelika
news:6cd25339.02072...@posting.google.com...
How accurate is this statistic? Is the proportion of MTF TSs with large hands greater
than the proportion of males in the general population who have large hands? Is
having big hands a way of telling whether a male person is TS? it's an intriguing
statistic in any case, are there any studies available regarding hand size and
transsexuality?
--
Amanda
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Dyan Fassett
>in article 5sjbku0bjlh44pchhl6akdd1sf4jge4cam@news, Dyan Fassett at
>dyanf...@eartlink.net wrote on 7/29/02 4:32 PM:
>Oh goody gumdrops! Diane, aka "so many others", chimes in with her net
>kooking too. Say, they sure are helpful. They sure have protected this
>place, TO DEATH.
>
>There is only one thing to do now. Ignore them.
Apparently that's yet another thing you're a failure at, ignoring others.
You've been posting hundreds of messages claiming to be ignoring us.
Looks like Dr. Brassard amputated the wrong head when he did your supposed
SRS...
Karen
> How accurate is this statistic? Is the proportion of MTF TSs with large
> hands greater than the proportion of males in the general population who
> have large hands? Is having big hands a way of telling whether a male
> person is TS? it's an intriguing statistic in any case, are there any
> studies available regarding hand size and transsexuality?
In my experience there is a strong correlation, though not absolute...
and teh most passble in general really don't have large hands/feet or
features in general.
- karen
Amanda Angelika
"Natasha Thompson" <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:B96B1AF1.AB3%natasha...@earthlink.net...
| in article 3D45C75F...@yahoo.com, Juliea Malvina at insi...@yahoo.com
| wrote on 7/29/02 3:52 PM:
|
| >
| >
| HRS? Come ON! Hands being so delicate and complicated, I could not think of
| a worse idea. If your damn hands are that big, move to Texas. Anyone can
| pass there. All you need is a close shave, thick makeup, a dress and purse.
|
| So these are the brave and bold self appointed post-op guardians of assrs,
| protecting newbies from snake oil salesmen and fako TS wannabees?
|
| You just hate the competition, is that it?
|
| It is all very funny to you, but some poor newbie may take you seriously. I
| think it is irresponsible to post such misinformation, even for a joke.
|
| --
| Natasha
|
|
Oh what a shame.
And there was I with my 100% stelth little hands and big fat butt feeling rather
chuffed with myself, LOL ;)
Juliea Malvina
Natasha Thompson wrote:
> HRS? Come ON! Hands being so delicate and complicated, I could not think of
> a worse idea. If your damn hands are that big, move to Texas. Anyone can
> pass there. All you need is a close shave, thick makeup, a dress and purse.
>
> So these are the brave and bold self appointed post-op guardians of assrs,
> protecting newbies from snake oil salesmen and fako TS wannabees?
>
> You just hate the competition, is that it?
>
> It is all very funny to you, but some poor newbie may take you seriously. I
> think it is irresponsible to post such misinformation, even for a joke.
Go on, Natasha. Are you trying to tell me you are seriously worried about a
stampede of fresh-out-of-the-box trannies descending on Casablanca in search of hand
surgery?
Even if your point is otherwise worthy of consideration, you have no call to slander
the fine women of Texas. Have you forgotten the likes of Ann Richards and Molly
Ivins, not to mention Sue Ellen Ewing and the Dallas Cowboys Cheerleaders?
Amanda Angelika
news:1fg3moi.124xs947ayuasN%kaa-...@attbi.com...
:) Yes I guess FRS foot reduction surgery would come in useful for some. I have a 6ft
6 CD friend who has to buy special size 12 6" inch heel stiletto shoes otherwise
she would not be able to attain her favoured height of 7ft. I dare say she could save
money on special shoes if I recommended her to a good surgeon after all not being
able to hobble about on 6" heels and be as tall as Ru Paul is a dreadful disability
for a girl LOL ;)
Amanda Angelika
"Juliea Malvina" <insi...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:3D45DC00...@yahoo.com...
And Daisy Duke, or was Hazard County not in Texas?
Karen
> Go on, Natasha. Are you trying to tell me you are seriously worried about
> a stampede of fresh-out-of-the-box trannies descending on Casablanca in
> search of hand surgery?
Hmmm .. similar sense of humor to Ms Butkus... but a different style...
Just who are you?
- karen
Diane
wrote:
>I take it you're referring to the late Dr. Hans Housenhoffer of the
>Hanshaus Klinik in Morocco. Now there was a master of his craft.
Yes that's the one! A lot of people went to Doctor H. but I hear he's
getting kind of old and passed much of his work on to his younger
assistant Nils Sturmendrungen.
Ahhh.....good old Hans and Nils.....
Diane
>But do theu have a sugery for poor humanity distribution
Powdered humanity?
Margaret Osterberg
Goodness...Karen Atkocius sure does seem to have a s00per sekrit who's who book
with the names of everybody who's ever posted here doesn't she. Some sort of
tranny version of Heidi Fleiss' secret black book or something.
Come to my clam bake tonight Karen. I'll make you some of my special clam
sauce....
*(:)
Diane
<mag...@federalmollusclabs.gov> wrote:
>
>Goodness...Karen Atkocius sure does seem to have a s00per sekrit who's who book
>with the names of everybody who's ever posted here doesn't she. Some sort of
>tranny version of Heidi Fleiss' secret black book or something.
>
>Come to my clam bake tonight Karen. I'll make you some of my special clam
>sauce....
I wouldn't do that...if you take kaa to a clam bake you're just asking
for instant poor clam distribution.
Karen
>
> *THE* Margaret Osterberg aka Krakatoah, Mrs. Butkus, Peachy Puff, etc.,?
Np Maggie was not Mrs. Butkus, that was someone else...
Check the headers ... that was the alt.net troll, not Maggie O.
> The
> hypocrite who on my first day at Salon's Table Talk, threatened in email to
> out me there, and then begged me not to out her for that, since my roomy
> knew damn good and well who she was? That Maggie O? That very same post-op
> of a thousand double faces, and countless net-kook aliases?
Maggie O was very immature back when she posted here, and more than a
bit spoiled ((Hmmm I wonder if she was not the basis for Chandra...
another character by the creator of Ms. Butkus), and could be
insensitively cruel at times, but I don't remember her as being that
kind of vicious.
Also I thought she wanted stealth, so posting her name does not make a
lot of sense...
- karen
Margaret Osterberg
Ah, I see you've missed the point...after she eats my special clam sauce she
won't be around much longer. It will be the end of all her poor distribution
problems.
*(:)
Diane
>Check the headers ... that was the alt.net troll, not Maggie O.
<crossposts removed again>
Well duuuhhhhh......................
Yossarian_xx
> "If a woman wants any kind of ordinary life she must be stealth and
> leave any T "community" behind her."
> ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
<snipe>
>
> Yours truly,
>
> June Hingle (the real one)
>
> *************************************************************
> it shows that you have class when you always speak the truth.
> after all....i am a lady ~ i picked my name, not my nose.
> *************************************************************
Hi June
I have given a lot of thought to stealth and the living of, for some
times now. When I transitioned there was a lot of history, family,
friends, work etc. I resolved myself to never being able to live in
stealth. Since transitioning I have changed jobs and the (you know she
was once a man) has stopped.
I find myself living a stealthy type of live. And yes there are time I
have to make known my past but all in all it have very little effect
on my life. Those that know, know and don’t care. Those that
don’t know, I care not to tell. It’s not that I’m
ashamed. It’s just something I don’t talk about in detail
like my childhood, military server etc.
I think John Lennon coined the phrase.
John Lennon wrote before he was gunned down in the driveway of the
Dakota: "Life (stealth) is what happens while you are busy making
other plans."
Yossarian
Kàri
news:ukburtt...@news.supernews.com...
Oh. Well I am a suckah' for nostalgia. And I always loved the KRAKATOA
alias. She's one of the funniest, genuine people I have met from these
groups. Don't step in anything.
ObedientFemme
I mean, if your hands are disproportionately smaller than your feet, that's
going to be even more noticeable than not having had surgery at all.
And, what about scarring? Some people scar very easily. And people with dark
complexions are likely to develop keloids (raised scars).
How much is "cost effectve" surgery?
Roberta Angela Dee
ObedientFemme
and your demeanor simply don't matter.
>I take it you're referring to the late Dr. Hans Housenhoffer of the
>Hanshaus Klinik in Morocco. Now there was a master of his craft. "Dr.
>Hands," as he was lovingly referred to by legions of grateful
>transsexuals, remained a mysterious figure for much of his career and
>never received full credit for his innovative work, since his patients
>generally just blended in as normal females once he'd worked his magic
>on them.
ObedientFemme
This has got to be your best post to date. I can just imagine someone with as
much fat in their hands as most women have in their butts.
ObedientFemme
>
>> I've heard that the only problem any of his patients ever had was if they
>> had "poor fat distribution", when all the fat ended up in their little tiny
>> hands instead of their butt.
>
ObedientFemme
-- Diane
ObedientFemme
>think it is irresponsible to post such misinformation, even for a joke.
>
>Natasha
ObedientFemme
ObedientFemme
>all flawed, merely fitting the preconceptions of sex and gender obsessed
>people.
>
>Do you really think the average person looks at an attractive woman and
>thinks, "Yeah she is hot, but her hands and feet are a little large, and I
>learned from the Jerry Springer Show that means she is a Tranny"?
>
>Sure some morons do, but allot of the time they make an assumption like that
>about a normal woman, who happens to have big feet and hands. Insecure jerks
>like that are not worth dating anyway, any more than a homophobic dude is.
>
>Date a homophobic man, and someday her will leave you for his new boyfriend,
>or kill you proving what a possessive macho stud he isn't.
>--
>Natasha Thompson
ObedientFemme
>> surgery. Each of the phalanges and metacarpals is shortened and
>> shaved circumferentially by 17 to 32 percent, depending on the
>> patient's overall demeanor and habitus. This was required by all
>> gender programs up until 1969 and even today most 100% passable
>> transsexuals opt for HRS when they go stealth. It's a simple and cost
>> effective measure that goes a long way toward guaranteeing a normal
>> life.
>
>if it was done at the same time as SRS. That's the reason they made people
>have a stent inserted, full time, 24/7, because they were not able to grip
>the dilator until their hands healed. :)
ObedientFemme
ObedientFemme
>be. It seems that some people revel in their "transsexualism".
-- Elaine
![-=s$[:Angel:]$s=-'s profile photo](http://lh3.googleusercontent.com/a-/ALV-UjW4wxnG4mrNn5yMCgoaHgi05v8EigQd4jQ_htItT2qiuxi8Jg=s40-c)
-=s$[:Angel:]$s=-
||
|| Ah, I see you've missed the point...after she eats my special clam sauce
|| she won't be around much longer. It will be the end of all her poor
|| distribution problems.
I believe you already posted the recipe somewhere....
Angel
Margaret Osterberg
And where would that be, "Angel" sweetie?
By the way, I noticed you've been up really late these past few nights, like
past past 6am where you live. Have you given up searching for gainful
employment, or is that the time you return from your "night job" in the sex
service business?
You've been very quiet today. Were you sleeping......?
Juliea Malvina
Karen wrote:
> Just who are you?
A fair question, in fact one I've been asking myself as far back as I can
remember. I would say a worker bee, a wannabe, a poseur, a dodger and weaver,
an occasional and inconsistent friend, that sort of thing. Basically another
undefined schmuck who blew it. But that's why we have Edith Piaf albums, so
perhaps I'll feel better about it later.
Who are you?
Diane
Diane
>Karen is Jewish. She can't eat clams.
See that's where you're wrong. Clams can be kosher if you kill them
humanely...instead of boiling them you have to kill them with one
swift and painless knife stroke to the neck.
Karen
> Who are you?
Exactly who I say I am,and I've said far to much personal stuff here
over the years in teh mmistaken belief this was a support group.
- karen
Diane
>
>Exactly who I say I am,and I've said far to much personal stuff here
>over the years in teh mmistaken belief this was a support group.
Yes, it must be difficult for a non-confrontational and supportive
person such as yourself to be forced to dwell amongst the unwashed
masses who have no such morality.
I feel your pain, kaa.
Really, I do.
Really.
ObedientFemme
Kàri
Does that really do it? I'll admit, I don't know much about clam
physiology, but the part that's considered the "neck" doesn't really connect
to any central nervous system, so cutting it off wouldn't really kill it.
D'oh.... you are kidding. ;-)
I should just clam up now.
Diane
Nope, clams do have necks. Of course the necks are inside their
shells and there's some stupid scientific name for it that doesn't
sound like "neck" but if you look it up on Google I'm sure you'll find
it.
Anyway the guy that's responsible for killing the animal, called the
Moyel, had to open the clam shell and cut the clam's neck with one
swift stroke of the blade. If the clam jerks at all then it's not
considered kosher. Anyway the process takes way too much time for the
cost involved and that's why almost all clams are not considered
kosher. But in some very fancy New York Kosher restaurants you can
still find clams there (just go in and ask!) but at a premium price
though.
June Hingle
>Nope, clams do have necks.
Au Contraire! Clams. (Bi-Valve Mullusks) have a "foot" and not a
neck. They do have however; a heart, liver, kidney, and so on (from a
H.S. Bio paper).... There are any number of ways to kill it humanely,
but you won't kill it by stabbing it in the foot. The best way I've
seen was to fly in the air about 50 ft. up with one in your mouth and
drop it.. Seagulls do it all of the time. ;) If you're not a seagull
then avoid the frustration....close your eyes and drop it into a pot
of boiling water along with the lobster, lots of butter, salt and a
little curry powder.
Diane
>You mean Diane "arons" Lask, of Esplanade Place Walnut Creek, Ca. ..
>again?
No.... I think you mean Alexandra Fassett and Natasha Thompson of
Concord California ph. (925) 286-1926
Don't call after misnight because that would be bad :( .
P.S> If a "penny" replies - it's really Nutasha
June Hingle
<snip> If a "penny" replies <snip>
Poor Penny. I really feel sorry for her. I hope her Dad isn't a cop. :(
ObedientFemme
>shells and there's some stupid scientific name for it that doesn't
>sound like "neck" but if you look it up on Google I'm sure you'll find
>it.
>
>Anyway the guy that's responsible for killing the animal, called the
>Moyel, had to open the clam shell and cut the clam's neck with one
>swift stroke of the blade. If the clam jerks at all then it's not
>considered kosher. Anyway the process takes way too much time for the
>cost involved and that's why almost all clams are not considered
>kosher. But in some very fancy New York Kosher restaurants you can
>still find clams there (just go in and ask!) but at a premium price
>though.
-- thoughts from Diane
ObedientFemme
No comment.
-=s$[:Angel:]$s=-
|| Nutasha said:
||| You mean Diane "arons" Lask, of Esplanade Place Walnut Creek, Ca. ..
||| again?
||
|| No.... I think you mean Alexandra Fassett and Natasha Thompson of
|| Concord California ph. (925) 286-1926
||
|| Don't call after misnight because that would be bad :( .
Especially as it's the wrong number!
Angel
Roberta Jr.
essence, in message news:<20020729234741...@mb-me.aol.com>...
> My hands are too too big. What is I to do?
Now now Roberta, your hands aren't too big. It's your pockets.
They're too small. Here let me show you. <rips pockets, making them
bigger> There dosen't that feel better? Just like a real girl.
I want to talk to you about this thing with your hands. I know some
one said your hands are big enough to choke a water buffalo, but don't
you pay them no mind. They're just jealous of your big ol' dick and
how you are able to swing it around every time some one questions your
femininety. Come on now, it's bad enough that every time you look in
the mirror you want to gag. Now you're developing a complex over your
very small xx-large hands. Just buy some work cloves, color them white
and sprinkle some glitter on them. There, just like Dianna Ross.
Dry them tears and go have some fun. Buy that large bottle of amyle
and think of all that corn holeing you'll do this weekend at the bath
house. Go out and get your wig re-treaded. Splurge and get the real
nylon, not the synthetic. Better yet, write something real nasty. Just
knowing some one will be feeling bad about themself has got to make it
feel as if the sun is coming out.
Better? Ok, let's pull our dicks out and start swinging them around.
SincerEly,
Roberta Jr.
Deanna
Dr. Flonkenstein
in an ultimate attempt to be funny
and witty at once, that summum of the evolution
Hey !
That's my number !!!!!!!
>
>Angel
>
>
--
Dr Flonkenstein
Alcatroll Labs Inc. Flame, troll and
antispaem bots
development.
mhm 27x12 MEOW MEOW ARMY
ICQ 146303664
Highpriest of the
Romath Religion
Professor Kookology at
BUNGMUNCH Univ.
Flonk leader #19
Wereldsman's hate lits #7
Political Compass :Economic Left/Right: -3.25,
Authoritarian/Libertarian: -3.13
================================================================
Max Ernst (1972) The Four Shoes :
http://www.si.umich.edu/Art_History/UMMA/1983/1983_2.240.jpg
================================================================
"I'll give up Usenet Performance Art...
when they pry the keyboard from my cold, dead fingers."
The 2-Belo: EMPEROR OF MEOW news:alt.fan.karl-malden.nose
================================================================
In article Message-ID: <j93feuc15kgtqj1h2...@4ax.com>
Sjoerd Bakker <sba...@home.nl> had this well argumented reply :
"Flonkenstein is een onbenul. Killfile."
================================================================
"Jerry Howe" <jho...@bellsouth.net> after having made
the cohabitants of the trailerpark clean up the place,
now tries the same on usenet, Message-ID: <a56kh3$51tv6$1...@ID-41291.news.dfncis.de>
"You ought to trim your sig file....
that's a common complaint here"
Cheryl
wrote:
>
>Anyway the guy that's responsible for killing the animal, called the
>Moyel,
Diane's crotch looks like it's been circumcised by Mr. Magoo. But
nothing more than that, really.
PS: Your father swallows. And he's still going on about what an
asshoole you are. I'm expecting you here soon. Then we can party like
we used to, maybe get his and its email addys, you know- like back in
the cruzio days. See you reeeeal soon.
Cheryl
wrote:
>
>Anyway the guy that's responsible for killing the animal, called the
>Moyel,
Diane's crotch looks like it's been circumcised by Mr. Magoo. But
Kàri
news:3D461E5B...@yahoo.com...
Edith Piaf was pretty amazing. One of my favorite quotes by another
performer....... they bring us so much.
"I'm Irish, I'm English, I'm Moslem, I'm Jewish
I'm a girl, I'm a boy
And the godess meant for me only joy
And real love requires you, give up those loves
Whom you think you love best
Love puts you through the test
And only loyal love will bring me happiness......
~ Sinead O'Conner... a bit of self-description from "what doesn't
belong to me" (off Faith and Courage)
>
>
>
>
ObedientFemme
>>penises." I remember thinking how silly that was, since I, at the time,
>>mistakenly thought that I was simply a crossdresser. That very idea seemed
>>silly to me. Now I begin to wonder if I didn't misjudge him on that issue.
Actually, you were correct the first time. A man cross dresses to momentarily
suppress his masculinity. He enjoys being a "girl" but only for a limited
amount of time.
A cross dresser, by definition, is a man; and, he's typically a heterosexual
man. Therefore, he neither wants to be a woman, or even a woman with a penis.
Roberta Angela Dee
T...@chatmaldives.com
I guess you would know about that, but how do you explain a man who while
crossdressing INSISTS on exposing himself and talking about his dick.
True Troll
> Roberta Angela Dee
Jennifer Usher
"Kaos" <ka...@ecn.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:semhkuo2o89dbcevq...@4ax.com...
> >recall Robert Stiller writing about how crossdressers wish to be "women
with
> >penises." I remember thinking how silly that was, since I, at the time,
> >mistakenly thought that I was simply a crossdresser. That very idea
seemed
> >silly to me. Now I begin to wonder if I didn't misjudge him on that
issue.
First, a correction. It was Robert Stoller, not Stiller. <g>
> It's a generalization; paradoxically both right and wrong. Meaning
> that it will have some truth for some people, and none for others.
Perhaps, but observation of the crossdressers here show it to be rather
true. Many, if not most, if not, perhaps, all of them seem to revel in the
idea of being "women with a penis."
> It's also rather demeaning to those for whom it's not true; but then,
> they're not you so there's no reason for you to care about that.
But, are there really any *crossdressers* for whom this is not true?
--
Jennifer Usher
Jennifer Usher
<T...@chatmaldives.com> wrote in message
news:fOd29.62960$8M1.9...@twister.nyroc.rr.com...
Or who gets off on masturbating while dressed as a woman....or who requires
the wearing of women's clothes during sex with a partner? As I recall,
Stoller seemed to base his theory on the existence of pornography that
featured photographs of crossdressers exposing their genitalia. While that
actually seems to appeal to a somewhat different audience, the idea of
crossdressers desiring to be "women with a penis" seems to hold some
validity.
--
Jennifer Usher
Cathryn Platine
The theory I remember that seemed to fit them best was one of validation
of their manhood, ie: "Look, I can still get it up even in all the
trappings of a female!"
Given Robert's love of his "equipment" it would seem to apply to at
least some so called "transgenderists" as well.
--
Cathy Platine (who shares Marina's opinion and feelings about
"obedientfemme"
@)-'--.--'
"Leading transies is like trying to herd cats. You get nowhere and just
annoy the cats."
Jennifer Usher
"Cathryn Platine" <ca...@radicalbitch.com> wrote in message
news:3D498EA0...@radicalbitch.com...
> The theory I remember that seemed to fit them best was one of validation
> of their manhood, ie: "Look, I can still get it up even in all the
> trappings of a female!"
>
> Given Robert's love of his "equipment" it would seem to apply to at
> least some so called "transgenderists" as well.
Possibly, it is the only way he can get it up. <g>
--
Jennifer Usher
ObedientFemme
While it is obvious that some members of this newsgroup have a fervent hope
that this is true, it could not be further from the truth.
Transgender women readily ingest female hormones with the understanding that it
will leave them both impotent and sterile. It is for this reason that some
transgender women elect to store their sperm in the event that they later want
to parent a child.
The kind of misinformation generated by Cathy and her ilk is not only
misleading, it's also hurtful to those who are seeking accurate information.
You, Cathy, Marina and others are entitled to whatever views you wish to hold.
However, it is irresponsible to spread lies and misinformation.
Roberta Angela Dee
Cathryn Platine
>
> Jennifer,
>
> While it is obvious that some members of this newsgroup have a fervent hope
> that this is true, it could not be further from the truth.
>
> Transgender women readily ingest female hormones with the understanding that it
> will leave them both impotent and sterile. It is for this reason that some
> transgender women elect to store their sperm in the event that they later want
> to parent a child.
>
> The kind of misinformation generated by Cathy and her ilk is not only
> misleading, it's also hurtful to those who are seeking accurate information.
>
> You, Cathy, Marina and others are entitled to whatever views you wish to hold.
> However, it is irresponsible to spread lies and misinformation.
>
> Roberta Angela Dee
Robert, you have been a veritable fount of mis-information, lack of
understanding and out and out lies in every forum I've ever run across
you in. Almost every time someone tries to correct your mis-information
you resort to attacks of a personal nature as witness your campaign just
a couple of days ago here to attempt to embarrass both myself and Marina
based on your perceptions that our freely available photos don't live up
to your warped sense of "proper" womanhood.
Only an idiot would take advice from someone who's very nick is an open
advertisement for gynophobia and misogyny and an open insult to any
woman with a modicum of self-respect and self-esteem. Witness, for
example, that almost any post advocating self-education about hormones
is met by you by shower of "the doctor knows best" posts in the face of
countless stories of transies needing to educate their doctors on the
subject.
You are a danger to transsexuals everywhere.
--
Cathy Platine
.
> Jennifer,
> While it is obvious that some members of this newsgroup have a fervent hope
> that this is true, it could not be further from the truth.
> Transgender women readily ingest female hormones with the understanding that it
> will leave them both impotent and sterile.
While very often (and even usually) the case, this is not *always* the case.
It depends very much on the person and the regiment.
I know at least one pre-op transsexual woman who has been on the chick juice
for more than 18 months who has no problems attaining a quick, raging erection
and shooting quite an impressive amount of ejaculate.
Shes shootin blanks though. That much is true.
-----.
--
"Hell, rocket science isn't even rocket science"
--A NASA rocket scientist, undernet, circa 1996
.
>>Robert, you have been a veritable fount of mis-information, lack of
>>understanding and out and out lies in every forum I've ever run across
>>you in.
> 1) Is this really necessary? Is there no way to answer/discuss without
> first putting your hatred on the table... C'mon, babe, you're an adult, act
> like one.
If youre thinking of offering this and posts like it to your ISP in hopes
of convincing them that youre not actually completely insane and malicious,
youve got another thing coming.
Its too late for that.
ObedientFemme
Roberta
ObedientFemme
Roberta
>Only an idiot would take advice from someone who's very nick is an open
>advertisement for gynophobia and misogyny and an open insult to any
>woman with a modicum of self-respect and self-esteem. Witness, for
>example, that almost any post advocating self-education about hormones
>is met by you by shower of "the doctor knows best" posts in the face of
>countless stories of transies needing to educate their doctors on the
>subject.
>
>You are a danger to transsexuals everywhere.
>--
> Cathy Platine
.
> It's only a matter of time.
Before she gets chopped and stuffed? Yep. A matter of a very small time
actually.
Karen Howe
community yet I have a normal life. I work during the day and come home to my
husband in the evening. I make meals, clean and shop. I go out with my
friends. I see my daughter when she has the time and she calls me on mother's
day. How much more normal could my live be?
Karen Lyn
In article <3e1ac3e7.0207...@posting.google.com>,
june_...@hotmail.com says...
>
>"If a woman wants any kind of ordinary life she must be stealth and
>leave any T "community" behind her."
>~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
>
>That is a very interesting quote. It wasn't written by some wannabe
>or a person who is stealth or has left the T community behind her. It
>was written by someone who has been fairly active in SST and ASSRS and
>has shared in the support along with the insults and has been post-op
>for some time now.
>
>I hope she doesn't think I am trying to stir up the dust. I am not.
><snipped>
>
>June Hingle (the real one)
>
ObedientFemme
By Roberta Angela Dee
The very first time I heard the word 'stealth' used among transgendered and
transsexual women, I thought they were referring to some US Air Force secret
jet fighter. I thought they were referring to a stealth bomber or possibly
some Klingon war ship from the Star Trek television series.
I later learned that the word was being used to refer to an individual who is
transgender or transsexual and who wishes to conceal, as much as possible, that
they ever belonged to either community.
Stealth Defined:
In order to have an intelligent discussion on any topic, one must first define
key words. It is senseless to discuss stealth if we define it differently.
As a writer, I always defer to an American English dictionary. Thus, stealth
is defined as follows:
Main Entry: stealth
Pronunciation: 'stelth
Function: noun
Etymology: Middle English stelthe; akin to Old English stelan to steal
Date: 13th century
1 a: archaic : THEFT b : obsolete : something stolen
2: the act or action of proceeding furtively, secretly, or imperceptibly <the
state moves by stealth to gather information - Nat Hentoff>
3: the state of being furtive or unobtrusive
4: an aircraft-design characteristic consisting of oblique angular construction
and avoidance of vertical surfaces that is intended to produce a very weak
radar return
Obviously, the definitions most applicable to the transgender or transsexual
individual are definitions two and three. Essentially, stealth means that one
intends to be secretive about their sex, specifically their original anatomical
sex.
When I was growing up, we simply referred to it as 'passing,' that is, not
being perceived as anything other than a genetically male man or a genetically
female woman. I was told, however, that stealth meant more than just passing.
It also meant divorcing oneself from those who were still in the process of
transitioning.
For example, if one were a male-to-female transsexual woman, going stealth
would be like quietly and secretly slipping into the community of genetically
female women and never revealing to those women that one is transsexual. Such
an individual would be like some Jane Bond, a trans-007, or something of that
nature.
Distribution of Opinions:
The topic of stealth was recently debated at TG Woman - the Yahoo! Group that I
moderate for transgender and transsexual men and women. However one felt about
being stealth, typically he or she held a very strong opinion about it.
About one-third felt that stealth was a logical conclusion to being fully
transitioned. They argued that it made no sense to continue relationships with
individuals who could cause suspicion of their being transgender or
transsexual.
About one-third perceived stealth as a form of betrayal. They felt that it was
unethical to turn one's back on the community that had first accepted their
being transgender or transsexual, and that offered support through the
transitioning process.
The remaining one-third of the members felt that stealth was a ridiculous
concept that had somehow made its way into the gender community, and that it
had no real way of being actualized. They argued that there are so many subtle
idiosyncrasies associated with both sexes that over a period of time even the
most casual observer would at least detect something different about an
individual who was transgender or transsexual.
As both a writer and as a moderator, it is essential that I remain as objective
as is humanly possible. It is the manner in which I approach every topic, and
the manner in which I've approached stealth.
The Practicality of Stealth:
Occasionally, I teach high school and freshman college students. It astounds
me how much fashion has changed. Girls don't wear shiny patent leather pumps
any longer, and boys don't wear the Florsheim Lexington wing tips. Today, both
sexes wear athletic sneakers or hiking boots. A few girls wear the stocky high
heel shoes, but for the most part the girls and boys dress alike: sneakers,
baggy jeans, loose fitting oversized tee-shirt, some sort of jacket and some
sort of cap. Yet, I can still distinguish the girls from the boys.
Gender differences can be extremely subtle. Still, it doesn't take very much
to distinguish a masculine gesture from one that's feminine. In fact, I once
read that facial differences as minute as one twenty-fifth of an inch are
noticeable.
Even without looking at a student's face, I could distinguish males from
females. Even when a boy was effeminate or a girl was boyish, I could still
tell the difference.
So, when anyone says, "I'm going to be stealth," all I can do is to wish him or
her the best of luck. However, from my perspective, stealth is a delusion.
I've been living as a woman for 27 years. I'm totally comfortable as a female.
Yet, I'm still going to be read by 20% of the population.
So, when someone comes to me and she's six foot, three inches tall, built like
Mr. Universe, and tells me she's going to be stealth, what can I say?
You can fool some of the people some of the time, but you can never fool all of
the people all of the time. It's really that simple.
More importantly, why should anyone have to hide who they really are? If you
must make an effort to conceal that you are transgender or transsexual, doesn't
that suggest that you're ashamed?
I've accepted jobs and never told anyone that I was transgender. If I told
them, I doubt they'd hire me. So, basically, I lied. Yes, I lied, plain and
simple. I didn't call it being stealth. I called it lying out of necessity.
The necessity being that I had to earn a living.
I've never walked around with a sign that read, "Roberta Angela Dee is a
transgender woman." Yet, given the right circumstances, I was never ashamed to
admit that I'm transgender and different from most other women. I'm not
ashamed of who I am. I deal with society's prejudices only because society
leaves me no other choice.
Conclusion:
Sometimes life forces us to be deceptive. However, if we are being deceptive,
we need to be able to acknowledge we're being deceptive. I'm not stealth.
I'll never be stealth. I'll simply be as honest as society allows me to be.
The End
(c) 2002 -- Roberta Angela Dee
All rights reserved.
Ms. Dee is moderator for TG Woman, with 2,300 transgendered and transsexual men
and women, and their loved ones. The site is located at
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/tgwoman/