Reversing SRS?
cat...@hotmail.com
months ago I had SRS (MtF) by Dr. Meltzer. I realize now that it was
inappropriate for me. Although I was 100% passable before, and had 2
years of crossliving, I'm not really a woman inside. Instead, I'm just a
shy boy who was never really able to get a girlfriend and was afraid of
being a man.
For a time I was happy living as a female, but I've since lost interest.
Furthermore, I find that I really am sexually attracted to women as a
male, just very shy about it. I had who I thought was an excellent
therapist, someone who has 20 years experience with ts issues, and was
completely open and honest with her about my feelings. I expressed
extreme ambivalence toward SRS to her, and said I enjoyed having my
previous genitals, but was unhappy because I was lonely. If having SRS
would make me happy, then I guessed I should do it. I shouldn't have.
For 2 hours the morning of the surgery I tried to stop it. I was torn up
emotionally. However, I had been kept up all night by 3 post-op ts's
telling me how great it was and I was exhausted. My mother, who was
there, pushed me back over the edge and I ended up having the
amputation.
I cry myself to sleep every night since returning home from the
hospital, every morning when I wake up, and several times have found
myself lying at the bottom of the shower screaming. I can't go on like
this much longer.
I don't know what to do. I had a couple ts friends before this, pre- and
post-op, and have stopped relations with them. I feel they failed me as
they both recommended I do this. I am also very, very upset at the
therapy process right now. I feel like I've woken up from a dream I was
in the last couple of years, only now my life is a nightmare.
I don't even feel like I'm alive. Instead, I can literally *feel* the
electrical nerve signals from my eyes, ears, skin, etc. reaching my
brain. I feel like a machine--an empty, soulless shell walking around. A
zombie running on instinct alone. I need to find some hope from
somewhere.
So getting back to my topic question, what are the physical
possibilities for surgical reassignment back to my birth sex? Should I
go to Meltzer or Dr. Gary Alter (www.altermd.com) who specializes in
trauma reconstruction? I don't know. Once a glorious, twinkling star
shining oh-so-bright over the horizon, with my future so bright I had to
wear shades, I am now a ruin.
Sent via Deja.com http://www.deja.com/
Share what you know. Learn what you don't.
Gretchen
Did a quick dejanews search for Catwear. Nothing by an author of that
nick. I suspect troll since the person is well informed about surgeons,
even giving web sites but claims lack of knowlege that SRS is
irreversable.
In response to all the eloquent prose. What you should realize now is that
further modifications to your body are not going to provide you with the
character needed to face life. You need a pshrink not a surgeon to put
your life together.
You claim to have been betrayed by friends, professionals, the system and
family/ mother. Are you turning to the internet because you have no one
else? If you research people who have medical disasters or fail at suicide
and leave themselves partialy disabled, almost all will face their
disability and live their life to overcome it. They never try suicide
again. That is what reads wrong about this. You claim a disaster of your
life and an unwanted "amputation" and yet you claim you want to go back
under the knife instead of picking up the pieces and making the most of
what you do have.
Wendy
Karen Ross
> ... A few
> months ago I had SRS (MtF) by Dr. Meltzer. I realize now that it was
> inappropriate for me. Although I was 100% passable before, and had 2
> years of crossliving, I'm not really a woman inside. Instead, I'm just a
> shy boy who was never really able to get a girlfriend and was afraid of
> being a man.
>
> For a time I was happy living as a female, but I've since lost interest.
Why would having SRS so suddenly make you cease to be happy living as a
woman? That's fishy. There has to be a *whole* lot more to this than you
are willing to admit. Shy boys who simply can't get a girlfriend don't just
go off, live two years as a woman, take female hormones, have a couple years
with a qualified therapist and then have SRS on a lark - if that's *all*
that's going on. Whay was your *real* motivation? You aren't being honest
with us. If you find yourself in a pickle now, the first thing you're going
to need to do is to be honest with yourself. Perhaps you are and just don't
wish to be open on the newsgroup. Fine. But you need to get back with that
therapist or another one and start doing the serious work you should have
done *before* you had SRS. The last thing you need now is to compound your
possible blunder with more poorly considered actions.
Let's inventory the facts. You lived the first 22 years of your life as a
man. You were not happy. You decided you wanted to be a woman. You were
passible as a woman. You lived as a woman for two years and were happy.
You are presumably employed now and have brought your family along on this
trip. In terms of surgical options, they aren't very good. If you
de-transition, you'll at best be a man with either a small penis through
which he can only pee or one with a phallic looking larger lump of flesh
that can be stiffened for intercourse. But it won't be anything like the
penis you once had. It probably won't give you orgasms. Intercourse will
be a comproimes of some sort. In terms of tissue to expand you'll have less
to work with than the typical FtM TS who's been on testo for years and has
an enlarged clitoris. You can have your breasts removed. That would leave
scars and most likely result in a flat chest that probably lacks the
potential for arousing stimulation. You are sterile. You'll have to take
some form of hormones (male or female) the rest of your life. If you change
your mind again you'll *really* be in a physical mess. And with that sort
of history you may find it very difficult to find anyone willing to help.
You have quite a few serious questions that only *you* can answer. Why were
you happy when you were living as a woman before you had SRS? Why aren't
you happy now? The only difference is that you had a penis then and don't
have one now. Why does that matter? Did you use your penis for something
you now miss? Or is it the *idea* that you lost a potential? If you
remained pre-op, would you have used it? When? What would have changed?
Would you have returned to living as a man? Would you have *ever* made a
successful masculine man? Would you have remained shy? Would you have ever
been happy as a man? Why weren't you happy as a man? What did you expect
from transition? Did you anticipate having sex with a man as a woman? Did
you look forward to trying it? If so, does it still appeal to you? If it
did once but now doesn't, why? Have you considered remaining a woman but
cultivating a relationship with a woman? Sexually you'll be able to manage
about the same as if you de-transition with surgery. If you de-transition,
can the "shy boy" without a properly functioning penis have the nerve to
actually seek a relationship with a woman now when he couldn't before? And
the list of questions goes on and on.
BTW, have you dilated to preserve your sexual capacity as a woman? If not,
you've closed-off an important option.
> Furthermore, I find that I really am sexually attracted to women as a
> male, just very shy about it.
So, nothing says you can't seek a relationship with a woman now. True,
you'll have a smaller selection. But how many do you need? You ought to be
able to find at least one who'll take you as you are.
... I had who I thought was an excellent
> therapist, someone who has 20 years experience with ts issues, and was
> completely open and honest with her about my feelings. I expressed
> extreme ambivalence toward SRS to her, and said I enjoyed having my
> previous genitals, but was unhappy because I was lonely. If having SRS
> would make me happy, then I guessed I should do it. I shouldn't have.
Somehow I can't read that as anything but a re-casting of what happened by
very selective memory. Such a therapist would not have agreed to write a
letter unless there was a *lot* more to it than that. You aren't going to
be able to dig yourself out of the hole you're in unless you start being a
lot more truthful with yourself.
> For 2 hours the morning of the surgery I tried to stop it. I was torn up
> emotionally. However, I had been kept up all night by 3 post-op ts's
> telling me how great it was and I was exhausted. My mother, who was
> there, pushed me back over the edge and I ended up having the
> amputation.
One reason why I *don't* believe in being there to *help* someone the day
and night before surgery is precisely because that's when they should be
totally in touch with themself. If a voice says don't do this, listen to it
and bail-out. But you expect us to accept that in the end *you* didn't
agree to have surgery? That's just not believable. Sounds like selective
memory. You are an adult. If it was a blunder, it was *your* blunder. You
asked for it and you got it. Focusing upon one part of your waffling prior
to surgery doesn't shift the blame to anyone else. You'll find this a lot
easier to handle if you grow up and accept the responsibility for your own
actions - then and now. No one can fix your life for you. And until you
are ready to take responsibility and deal with this as an adult, about all
you'll do is make things worse.
> I don't know what to do. I had a couple ts friends before this, pre- and
> post-op, and have stopped relations with them.
Did they refuse to accept your calls? If so why? Have you called them, or
are you waiting for them to call you? Have you asked them why they stopped
relations? Did you blame them for your mistake?
>... I feel they failed me as
> they both recommended I do this.
Who made the decision? Who worked for two years or more to make it happen.
No one but you bears the responsibility. In blaming them for your mistake
it sounds like, as a friend, you have failed them. If you decide to grow-up
and deal with the world as an adult, you will find that nothing has happened
to you with which you cannot cope. Until you grow-up and deal with it as an
adult you will not cope. It's a hard reality. But it's your life
> So getting back to my topic question, what are the physical
> possibilities for surgical reassignment back to my birth sex?
Comparatively poor. It depends upon what you expect from it. If you were a
typical FtM TS, I'd recommend it as an option. As a post-op considering
de-transition, I wouldn't unless you are absolutely sure that you want to
live the rest of your life as a man - with the compromises that includes.
-- Kare
Bethann876
Hello,
I am always suspicious of anyone who claims that such an important decision
was wrong. If you read "Alan's" letter slowly....he doesn't write like a 24
year old person. More like an Ivy-League (Harvard-Yale) educated person who is
at least 40 years old !
An educated jerk that wants to "make others angry/mad/confused....whatever !
It makes this creep happy to create unhappiness in others.
Read this part of "Alan's" letter !
--------------------------------------
<< " I don't even feel like I'm alive. Instead, I can literally *feel* the
electrical nerve signals from my eyes, ears, skin, etc. reaching my
brain. I feel like a machine--an empty, soulless shell walking around. A
zombie running on instinct alone. I need to find some hope from
somewhere.
So getting back to my topic question, what are the physical
possibilities for surgical reassignment back to my birth sex? Should I
go to Meltzer or Dr. Gary Alter (www.altermd.com) who specializes in
trauma reconstruction? I don't know. Once a glorious, twinkling star
shining oh-so-bright over the horizon, with my future so bright I had to
wear shades, I am now a ruin." >>
-----------------------------
Yes, we believe you ! We are all idiots out here!
Need advice on how to correct this ? Go to lesbian bars or just
meet a nice girl that likes women. Please, don't think many of us believe your
Bullshit ....
Bethanne
catw...@my-deja.com
As for the rest of you:
I assure you that every detail in my message was true, sans the first
name.
Bethanne: What a warming response! Thank you for the compliment on my
writing; I am in fact Ivy-equivalent educated, but merely 24. BTW, did
you know Shakespeare wrote Henry VI and The Comedy of Errors when he
was 24?
Wendy: Another response straight from the heart. I am not forlorn; I do
have family and friends for support. I do not relish the idea of going
back under the knife. I want to know what my options are.
Elaine: It happened like I said, by gum. I don't see what about my post
is difficult to believe. I made a mistake. I am young and completely
passable, and got caught up in the whole process. I was told over and
over that I was a 'Primary!' and that I was 'Obviously a female!' and
that I could 'Never go back!' That's how it happened.
Michelle & Elaine: Fascinating how instead of responding contributively
to my message (like the delightful replies of Bethanne & Wendy), or
ignoring it, you 'run a DNS trace!' to 'track down the troll!' *Sigh*
antiope: It appears you forwarded my message to two other newsgroups?
MARY A TS
person mess up.. Passabilty is not what is it. Try being 6 ft 7 inches tall
and 36 years old. Thanks for share your sad story... Now move on and make the
best of it. I will not be pray sorry soul or your theripst either.. Your are
not worth the time of day fool... You made my day.... BIG SMILE ON MY
FACE......
81 day gal.. The mean and anger bitch of the west......
MARY A TS
81 day gal......
Anyway where have mine support been lately?
Nicole Ashley Hamilton
> I assure you that every detail in my message was
> true, sans the first name.
I'm old enough to know anything is possible and if indeed your story is
true, my heart goes out to you. But I admit I was (am) pretty skeptical
also (still). It's the sudden appearance of someone with no history in the
group offering up this story that sets off alarms that this must be a
troll. Why did we never hear from you here before you went off to SRS? If
you weren't here for help then, why now?
Nicki
tracy
The appropriate advice is the same, whether the message
is real or not - get into (or back into) therapy asap,
and be *honest* with your therapist - maybe you can
find some help.
I agree with others that it just doesn't *feel* right -
and I can't help but notice some similarities to what
some deluded soul has been posting over on alt.transgendered -
the "just woke from a dream" line, and the idea that we are
just failed men - very creepy.
I also think it's a bit odd that the eventual
followup seems to have a much different tone than the
first one.
Tracy
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Winni
catw...@my-deja.com wrote:
<diatribe against group snipped>
Hmmmm . . . do you, by any chance, know Chaundra . . . ?
You tipped your hand too soon.
Julie
<catw...@my-deja.com> wrote in message news:7kf94l$jo8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com...
> Thank you Karen and Jennifer (and antiope).
>
> As for the rest of you:
>
> name.
Since I X-No-Archive most all of my messages you wouldn't have
seen my response on Deja.Com, so I'll give you one now without
that header.
I think we've all managed to figure out that you are working for
IBM out at the Almaden facility. This makes the detail about being
in the Midwest rather impossible, but I do understand the need for
some privacy and secrecy -- I know that people can easily figure
out who I am, but at least I make it a bit harder ;-)
What are your options? Not good, unfortunately. Too much
tissue is discarded during SRS to simply disassemble your
neovagina and reconstruct your old penis. The good news is that
if you are serious about pursuing re-reassignment you'll be forced
to have far more therapy than you did the first time. You can't
go back just by saying "I wanna go back" any more than you can
go forward by saying "I wanna go forward".
Could you share what it was about life as a woman during those
two years which made them enjoyable, but which doesn't exist
today (besides your penis, I mean) ? I can imagine two years
of struggle in the wrong role -- I mean, I did it for 33 years, no?
But what I can't imagine is two years in the wrong role and being
=happy= about it. There was something of value you found and
perhaps the real answer is that you've forgotten what it was and
need to get in touch with that -- or realize that whatever it was
which made those years happy (perhaps having so many friends
who were supportive all of the sudden, or being the center of
attention, or ...) had nothing to do with your presentation to the
world as a woman.
There are also some issues in your first post that really just don't
ring true. Again, I can understand being embarassed about
lying your ass off to your shrink, but your next shrink isn't going
to let you off the hook. Claiming that you told her you were happy
with your old genitals and trying to blame-shift this onto her will
not get you approved for re-reassignment. Your TS friends
might have talked you into SRS (and I do believe that we can be
rushed by our post-op friends ...), but your shrink didn't.
ANYHOW -- Assuming your post is true, well, you're now a
transsexual. Sorry it happened to you. Welcome to our little
world, pull up a chair, and stay a while. We don't get many men
in here, so make yourself at home. If, however, your post is a
troll (and some of us are =very= good at figuring out such things),
I'd suggest you leave immediately. My guess is that we'll know
your true identity in a week or less (as I said, some of us are
=very= good ...) and you will be outed if you persist.
-- Julie.
Karolina Lindqvist
catw...@my-deja.com wrote:
> I assure you that every detail in my message was true, sans the first
> name.
The difference for me was that people talked me into beeing the
native sex, at your age. You might think it is a big difference, but
is it really?
You obviously was convinced yourself, you were a women. You have
obviously have had your doubts you are a man,. Enough doubts, and
enough symptoms to show a clear GID indication, and to get all the
doctors to give you a go ahead. Now it is already done, and you
got cold feet. But how do you know now in which sex you would be
most happy? You today think it is male, yesterday thought it is
female. So the advice is just to cool it down. Live as a male, or
female, whatever, it does not matter. Learn something about
yourself, and life, and make no more hasty decisions.
My gut feeling is that if you are so confused about your gender,
you will have a hard time in the men's world also. To be a
successful man, you have to be 1000% convinced you are a man,
otherwise you will not make it good. Still, there is nothing
that say you cannot cross-live like a man now, and try it out.
Noone is ever going to look at your croutch, to see if you
are a real man. And if someone does, you can say you had
an accident, and people will feel great pity on you. But if
you look enough like a women, you will have a HARD time
living like a man. Just face it.
Oh, BTW. I find it strange you now speak out so bold and
self-assured on this NG, but you were so shy on the operation day,
you could not even say "no". I was shy in your age. Really
shy, and I know what it means. I can imagine beeing shy
and not daring to say "no", but then I would not dare
to scream out loud on the internet either. I accepted
that I was what everyone said I was -- a man. A big part
of that acceptance was shyness. I was also grossly confused
about gender roles.
This all points on that your problem right now is NOT
your sex. It is something else. Work that out, and what sex
you should have will then be self-evident.
If you let them cut it off, my bet is that
you are not a man. You should just know how real men feel
about even the thought of cutting it off. Such a person
would not lay shyly and just let it happen. A real man
would scream and run away from the operation table. Everyone
know the reactions of men, and you did not seem to pass
that test. Even a shy person would react instinctively,
and with determinatin, when it comes to gut feelings.
So if you lack the gut feeling of a man, and the
gut feeling of a women, you have to seriously consider
what you really are. Think deply about it.
Let it take its time.
Sorry if I sound a little bit harsh. But you want to be
a man, then you have to be prepared for harsh treatment.
If you cannot take that, better stay a women.
Actually, your text raises another question, I have been
wondering about. Isn't the chance greater for an early
transitioner. Someone who has never been living like a "man",
who encounters problems and restrictions living like a woman,
might easily think that if he/she just hadn't done it, and
could be a man, everything would have been better. But we who
have been trying to live like "men" for a long time, know
everything about it, and will never look back. The grass is
seldom greener on the other side, and the colour of the
grass should not be the motivation for an SRS.
-- Karolina
Unknown
>Thank you Karen and Jennifer (and antiope).
>
Say, Alan, wouldn't you be better off just living as a woman? It
sounds like you were having a good time for a while. If you really
hate it you could go back to living as a guy, of course, but since
you've come this far you must've been pretty seriously motivated and
I'd be inclined to give it another shot. Another option would be to
just pick someplace in between, and even that can shift around over
time. A good many people do this and are quite happy with it.
I wouldn't get down on myself or go zipping off for further surgery
just yet. Apparently you feel you acted precipitously the first time
and you don't want to repeat that. You're young and have plenty of
time, so why not just see if you can get back in the groove, or maybe
find a new one?
As far as your anatomy, I don't think you should let that be your
controlling issue. There are lots of FTM guys and men who for other
reasons don't have functional penises or any penis at all. Yet they
are totally masculine and have satisfactory sex lives.
Andrea
Jennifer Lynn
> Hmmmm . . . do you, by any chance, know Chaundra . . . ?
> You tipped your hand too soon.
NO ONE, NO ONE TRASH THIS CHILD!!!!!!!!
I just figured out who this is, and I've been worried about her being
quiet since her SRS.
Damn, this is the day I'd pray would never happen.
She is one of my quiet kids
Honey, please write again, and we'll see what we can do to help.
love
Aunty
hey...@lamar.colostate.edu
Andrea Bennett (arb...@mindspring.com) wrote:
> catw...@my-deja.com writes:
>
> >Thank you Karen and Jennifer (and antiope).
> >
>
> Say, Alan, wouldn't you be better off just living as a woman? It
> sounds like you were having a good time for a while. If you really
> hate it you could go back to living as a guy, of course, but since
> you've come this far you must've been pretty seriously motivated and
> I'd be inclined to give it another shot. Another option would be to
> just pick someplace in between, and even that can shift around over
> time. A good many people do this and are quite happy with it.
>
> I wouldn't get down on myself or go zipping off for further surgery
> just yet. Apparently you feel you acted precipitously the first time
> and you don't want to repeat that. You're young and have plenty of
> time, so why not just see if you can get back in the groove, or maybe
> find a new one?
>
This is some good advice! Give yourself TIME to adjust. You've gone
through a lot of change, both physically and mentally, in a very short
time. You may just feel scared because you feel like you've been thrust
into a mold you can't fill. As if your body's more feminine than your
mind. Just remember, there are lots of women out there that feel the
same way. Getting more surgery now will just confuse things. In time
you will feel more comfortable. Even with your new feminine body, you
can still be masculine. You can still work on a car engine, or talk
about the latest football scores, scratch your ass in public, or
penetrate a woman during sex (use your imagination!).
It may be that you were more transgendered than transexual. But there
is no body shape that can keep you from being transgendered--so you can
still be that way. Just look at Kate Bornstein -- she's a transexual
woman who believes that she is neither man or woman and she does
*WHATEVER* she wants in the gender world. And she loves her surgical
result. It's a different way to live, but a pretty wonderful one in my
eye.
take care,
Camille
> As far as your anatomy, I don't think you should let that be your
> controlling issue. There are lots of FTM guys and men who for other
> reasons don't have functional penises or any penis at all. Yet they
> are totally masculine and have satisfactory sex lives.
>
> Andrea
>
missAlly
Nicole Ashley Hamilton wrote: >
> I'm old enough to know anything is possible and if indeed your story is
> true, my heart goes out to you. But I admit I was (am) pretty skeptical
> also (still).
And remain 'skeptical'.
This poster IS a troll. Just check his/her posting history. This is
what I found:
------------------------------------
Subject: Also Stuck
Date: 1999/06/18
Author: catware1 <catw...@my-deja.com>
Forum: alt.games.tombraider
I'm stuck too. Anyone know where to go from here? Thanks!!
-------------------------------------
Now if this isn't some kiddo trying to get a rise, I don't know what is.
Sheesh!
missAlly
tracy
I know *everyone* here would agree that Alan needs to get
help, and get it *now* - if you want to see a different
therapist, just let us know where you are, and there's
a good chance that someone here could give you a name.
Tracy
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Seven
up to. Mary - I am really disappointed in you. I urge you to look deep
within yourself to find out why someone's pain gives you joy. It is to me
an indication of a dark despairing person within yourself that would embrace
such a thing. Seek your humanity, Mary.
MARY A TS <mar...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:19990619052030...@ng-fo1.aol.com...
Jennifer Lynn
> Well, if it's true, HE is one of your quiet kids ...
> Get him in touch with me. He posted from inside an IBM firewall,
> so I know he's real in at least that sense of being "real". If he's
> serious about going back to life as a man and he didn't transition
> at IBM in the first place, he may want to get in touch with HR and
> I have most of those contacts worked out.
> You should still have my home e-mail address.
> -- Julie.
Julie,
Think, please
recent SRS, feeling all alone and worthless, and like you made a
horrible mistake. Isolating yourself from Friends, hiding your feelings?
Does this not sound like massive post op depression??
If he does want to go back to being a boy, that's fine we'll help, but
what if it's more than just that?
I set that damn post op list up to help in cases like this, and all i
ever hear from members is they just fight with each other
God i got so many kids in the bay area, but they never formed a group of
post ops, they all just went their own way
I'm sorry i'm all over the place, i should be asleep right now, but i
keep worrying about one of my kids hurting
sorry i'm not making sense
xxn...@my-deja.com
I was at Westmoreland a couple of months ago and there was a (please excuse
my use of the female gender) girl there with her mother. I heard s/he had
some doubts, but it seemed to be resolved and she wenf forward with the
surgery. I left prior to hearing the outcome. If this is the same person,
then I can first hand vouch for the fact that s/he was there at that time.
I won't get into the discussion of what to do or what went wrong, but I will
say that the discussion of whether this is a troll or not should stop right
now.
I will suggest that we all do our best to provide the kind of support
appropriate for this situation.
> Hello, my name is Alan. I'm 24 years old and live in the midwest. A few
> months ago I had SRS (MtF) by Dr. Meltzer. I realize now that it was
> inappropriate for me. Although I was 100% passable before, and had 2
> years of crossliving, I'm not really a woman inside. Instead, I'm just a
> shy boy who was never really able to get a girlfriend and was afraid of
> being a man.
>
> For a time I was happy living as a female, but I've since lost interest.
> Furthermore, I find that I really am sexually attracted to women as a
> male, just very shy about it. I had who I thought was an excellent
> therapist, someone who has 20 years experience with ts issues, and was
> completely open and honest with her about my feelings. I expressed
> extreme ambivalence toward SRS to her, and said I enjoyed having my
> previous genitals, but was unhappy because I was lonely. If having SRS
> would make me happy, then I guessed I should do it. I shouldn't have.
>
> For 2 hours the morning of the surgery I tried to stop it. I was torn up
> emotionally. However, I had been kept up all night by 3 post-op ts's
> telling me how great it was and I was exhausted. My mother, who was
> there, pushed me back over the edge and I ended up having the
> amputation.
>
> I cry myself to sleep every night since returning home from the
> hospital, every morning when I wake up, and several times have found
> myself lying at the bottom of the shower screaming. I can't go on like
> this much longer.
>
> I don't know what to do. I had a couple ts friends before this, pre- and
> post-op, and have stopped relations with them. I feel they failed me as
> they both recommended I do this. I am also very, very upset at the
> therapy process right now. I feel like I've woken up from a dream I was
> in the last couple of years, only now my life is a nightmare.
>
> I don't even feel like I'm alive. Instead, I can literally *feel* the
> electrical nerve signals from my eyes, ears, skin, etc. reaching my
> brain. I feel like a machine--an empty, soulless shell walking around. A
> zombie running on instinct alone. I need to find some hope from
> somewhere.
>
> So getting back to my topic question, what are the physical
> possibilities for surgical reassignment back to my birth sex? Should I
> go to Meltzer or Dr. Gary Alter (www.altermd.com) who specializes in
> trauma reconstruction? I don't know. Once a glorious, twinkling star
> shining oh-so-bright over the horizon, with my future so bright I had to
> wear shades, I am now a ruin.
>
Amber Thompson
Agnes wrote:
> So, go find a good doc and get started on androgens again, and a
> good therapist experienced in the social aspects of post-trauma
> rehab. In a year's time, you'll have a better sense of whether
> you need breast reduction or other work.
>
> You have plenty enjoyable life left, Alan; all you need do is
As to breast reduction, once they are gone, your only option is
implants. Sometimes in breast reduction surgery, the nipples will never
have any feeling again.
--
Amber Thompson
ICQ #5904742
http://homepages.together.net/~msfrost/tananda.html
Amber Thompson
"arb...@mindspring.com" wrote:
>
> Juli...@yahoo.com (Julie) writes:
>
> >You could try Krazy Glue . . .
> >
> >Julie
> >
>
> You know, I had a friend who was a neurosurgeon, and he told me his
> "secret" for fixing brain aneurysms was Krazy Glue. He said it was
> better than any of the medical products for vascular microsurgery, and
> that it held like -- well, like crazy.
Superglue was created for medical uses on the battlefield.
xxn...@my-deja.com
course I meant Eastmoreland
Mother Choriza
One of the first posts I made to this group referred to a friend of
mine that undertook the same journey you are contemplating. You are not
the first person to feel the same way. Matter of fact the number of
people that have regrets about SRS may surprise you. Many of procedures
can be done to help you regain much of your masculinity. My friend
undertook her detransition at an unfortunate period of her life, she was
suffering what turned out to be the last stages of HIV. Her ability to
regain her maleness was limited by time consideration, and her general
health. I suspect that whatever steps you take, you will remain an
unhappy person. The old adage about playing with the hand you are dealt,
takes on new meaning when one understands that you dealt yourself a
second hand and are not happy about the results. Ca' sera. Much of the
medical treatment revolve around having you take hormones. Also, there
surgical procedures not unlike those preformed on F-M TSs. There are
several groups that lend support to people like you. Unfortunately or
fortunately they seem to be all affiliated with religious groups. Their
support is conditional that you sever ties to the TS community and
accept their philosophies. Whether this is mind control or an important
aspect of the treatment, is a decision you alone can make. Let me say
that my friend died with a certain amount of peace. My advice is that
you seek out information so that you can make an informed choice. If you
want here is an address to a main that give you information you will not
likely find from this group. His name is John and you can e-mail him at,
hiso...@sprintmail.com Let me warn you that there is religion involved.
Good luck
MARY A TS
>be a troll, in which case your reply was very inappropriate. I am very
>ashamed of you and think you should be ashamed of yourself, and that
>you should write an apology immediately.
Dear sis,
Going through what I have gone through in life does not leave much room for
compasion. We live in a mean world were people really do not give a shit about
anyone except for themselfs. I have seen it in my family recently about the
lying.. I do not really give a fats ass about nobody and nothing.. I am
feeling very hurt and piss off now. The old person is suffering now and want
to attack anything that is alive.... Remeber I do have a mental condition name
of PTSD... I learned a vaualable lession recentlly from mother that it is ok to
lie to the person you say you love.. Family can all go to hell.. I am against
the world now. And nobody better stand in my way... I have gone into the
outher world of insantity now.. A wounded dog will fight til she is died.....
Have a wonderful day all.. Please do not mess wiith me. I am warning you
all... It will get very mesty in here from me. I will not go by the rule of
sanity.
Killing machine of desert storm 81 day gal
MARY A TS
>posted that he's one of her kids, I wrote her, telling her what I
>figured out, and she confirmed it.
>
>So, if you can't help him, please just shut up about him; this is a
>very serious matter.
He fuck up.. The Therpsit fuck up.. and his family fuck up.. Boy what a
wonderful world we live in... He knew what he was getting into. So suck it up
and drive on like the rest of us.... That is the saying I heard alot in the
ARMY.. He never stuggel one day of his life. so he can go to hell.. He had
hell alot more help than I ever receive from my family.... Like I said before
I am smiling on his failour... So I do not have no heart for that looser
MARY A TS
>I just figured out who this is, and I've been worried about her being
>quiet since her SRS.
>
>Damn, this is the day I'd pray would never happen.
>She is one of my quiet kids
>
>Honey, please write again, and we'll see what we can do to help.
>
>love
>Aunty
You really have some nerve to call yourself a AUNTY... what uis that
anyway... I am a orphan now... A family member would of help her out making
the right desision.. I do not give of rats ass now in this family thing. It
does niot excist.. It is all a lie.... This little men fail and made the
wronge desicion... It is now time to pay the judge.. Like they say in the
ARMY.. "SUCK IT UP AND SMILE THE COFFEE" It is a little to late for that lost
soul.. He had the world by the string andd he fuck up... He never walk in my
shoes.. So I do not have no compation for a person who has it all
To live and die in self defeatness.......
MARY A TS
>meeting, it was down to three or four people. I didn't go to the April
>meeting, and there never was another meeting.
They formed a POST OP list for the privledge.. They do not bive a rats ass
about the younger sister who is about to have there SRS... What a pitty that e
live in this sorry ass world with uncompationed people.... The only POST OP
who has ever help me out was Michelle. She is a wonderful person who I was
part of her life... After this last posting she is going to tell me to fuck
off and not to ever speak to her again.. Anyway what is this FAMILY shit
again.. When you are in need we fuck yopu with lies...... My Father told me
when I was growing up about a million time... "ALL YOU CAN TRUST IS FAMILY"
What a dame asswhole he is... When mine eyes were open up to reallity. Just
recently my eyes has been open up to my Lying bitch of a mother... But i am so
piss of now. I can not sleep or do anything else.. She is going to hell for
the hurts and unsupport she has done to me... Like the rest of that SORRY
family of hers.. I hope she never come to no door now. I will proubly kill
her.....
Killing machine of desert strom.. We will arrise again........ And kill that
leader of irag
MARY A TS
Amanda Michelle
Let's see... You just show up here and start making nasty remarks--then
you have the nerve to ask why no one shows support for you?
Yeah, right. It's attitudes like that that make people *not* want to
help. You say you're 36, but you still have a *lot* of growing up to
do.
--
Amanda
I'm *still* Boosteriffic!
MARY A TS
>up to. Mary - I am really disappointed in you. I urge you to look deep
>within yourself to find out why someone's pain gives you joy. It is to me
>an indication of a dark despairing person within yourself that would embrace
>such a thing. Seek your humanity, Mary.
>
>
GO to hell all of you.. I can stand of this world alone.. Now I am going to
war... My M16 is lock and loaded.. I better not see no one walk arround.. I
will kill ever last one.. My mother broke the last straw of sanity in me...
So insantiy is a much better place to live... What are THEY going to do
again.. lie about me in front of the judge like they did 7 years ago.. They
are still lying and will not tell the truth.. all of this nice stuff that I
have been trying to be is full of shit... Where has it got me. i have no
freinds here where I live.. The world have given up on me... So I have
giving up on the world. Am I am at war now.. I am readdy to go to battle to
one of us is dies. This is a Sick PTSD BITCH coming to you now. and it is
live nnot memorex...
Nicole Hamilton
> Does this not sound like massive post op depression??
Jennifer, I appreciate your coming in to verify that Alan's plea for help
is genuine. And Alan, if you're listening, my heart does truly go out to
you.
But I think there may be something in what Jennifer is saying here and also
in the advice others have offered that this is not the time to rush into
new decisions. You may indeed want to undo, as best you can, what you've
just done. But take care. It's a very common phenomenon, sometimes
referred to as buyer's remorse, that we feel most certain we've just made a
horrible mistake just after making a big commitment. This stuff feeds on
itself: the more important the commitment, the more terrible the
consequences of a wrong decision, the greater the sense of risk, the less
confidence we have in ourselves, the more certain we become that we've done
something horribly wrong. And that's when, in the midst all that craziness
of emotion, that we can most easily fall victim to making even more rash
decisions.
I know this is an exceedingly difficult time and you feel intense pressure
to do something =NOW= to fix your mistake. But I beg you please to try to
find some way to stand up to that pressure. As others have advised, you
=should= get hooked up with a therapist again. You may want to discuss
whether there might be some meds that would help you through the anxiety
you're in right now, just 'till you've regained your normal sense of
control. Try to find some new outlets. Go do some 50-mile bike rides. Go
camping someplace. Learn to waterski or scuba dive or fly an airplane or
play golf. Take a class in ceramics or water colors or Chinese cooking or
engine repair. Build a bookcase or a winerack. DO SOMETHING. If you sit
and brood, it'll only get worse and it still won't be any more reliable as
indicator of what you should do long term.
As others have suggested, one really good reason you shouldn't be too hasty
trying to undo your transition is that quite possibly, once things have
settled back down, you'll decide that you really are a woman and all you
were feeling was the quite natural pangs of realization that to gain life
as a woman, you had to kill off your life as a man. Nothing is ever free
and the cost of being female is that you can't be a male. Some options you
took for granted as a male can never again be available. But if you are
truly female, it would be wrong to focus on these costs without thinking
about what you've gained, namely, the chance to be who you really are.
Give it time. At your age, you do have time. Nothing is going to happen
in the next six months to make any option you have right now disappear. If
in six months spent really trying to live your life as fully as you can you
still find you want to detransition, sure, maybe that's what you should do.
But do try to ensure that decision is as considered and sober as possible.
It's okay to feel awash in emotions telling you that screwed up your whole
life. That can happen to any of us. It's not okay to let that prevent you
from taking steps to regain control of yourself and your normally reliable
ability to make good, considered decisions.
Nicki
missAlly
ant...@xs4all.nl wrote: >
> missAlly wrote: > >
> >Now if this isn't some kiddo trying to get a rise, I don't know what is.
> Stop this!!!!!
Why?
> How on earth can you judge somebody because he posted one
> other post in another news group.
It's easy. A 'posting history' can reveal a lot about a posters
behavior.
> You should see my history!
Maybe I should.
missAlly
missAlly
Jennifer Lynn wrote: >
> Honey, please write again, and we'll see what we can do to help.
Who here IS qualified to 'help' this person? This is a ng. If this
poster IS telling the truth, she should talk to someone who is qualified
to handle her situation.
missAlly
missAlly
ant...@xs4all.nl wrote: >
> I really hate it when people judge about someone who writes for the first
> time and has been so honest.
So what? Honey this is the internet, one should ALLways be skeptical of
first time posters.
missAlly
missAlly
Julie wrote: >
> I agree -- this is fucked. I'm starting to really think that the people
> who've reacted negatively have some major insecurity issues of their own
Come on Julie, these so-called 'negative' reactions are NOthing more
than honest reactions to a post that could or couldn't have been
truthful.
> -- like,
> maybe they have doubts about their own transsexuality
Now what does this have to do with anything? Yes, some posters have
'doubts' about the validity of what this person posted---NOthing wrong
with that. It's wise to be skeptical while on the internet.
> and think that
> bashing this guy is going to help them.
Puhleez. I have yet to read a post where this poster has been
'bashed'. You're being overly dramatic.
missAlly
missAlly
MARY A TS wrote: >
<snippity-doo-dah>
> I will not go by the rule of sanity.
Honey, you couldn't if you tried.
misAlly
missAlly
Julie wrote: >
> MARY A TS wrote: > >
> > You mess up your life dud.. It is too late now.. I am happy to see
> > a young person mess up.. Passabilty is not what is it. Try being 6
> > ft 7 inches tall and 36 years old. Thanks for share your sad
> > story... Now move on and make the best of it. I will not be pray
> > sorry soul or your theripst either.. Your are not worth the time of
> > day fool... You made my day.... BIG SMILE ON MY FACE......
> You are one of the sickest, most disgusting, most uncompassionate
> people I have seen on the 'net in 15 years.
You must lead a sheltered internet life. This kid doesn't even scratch
the surface of 'disgusting' internet behavior.
> You wrote earlier where you had a rough day because your co-workers
> called you "Him". Well, you deserved it.
Humph...they should've called her an idiot.
missAlly
missAlly
Seven wrote: >
> Just peeked into the group on a Saturday morning to see what my
> friends are up to. Mary - I am really disappointed in you. I urge
> you ? to look deep within yourself to find out why someone's pain
> gives you joy. It is to me an indication of a dark despairing person
> within yourself that would embrace such a thing. Seek your humanity,
> Mary.
Seven, Mary is a spammer. She'll be gone once she realizes NO one is
interested in buying what she's selling.
missAlly
missAlly
Agnes wrote: >
<snip of excellent post for space>
> You have plenty enjoyable life left, Alan; all you need do is
> live it.
I second that. Just keep in mind that life IS short, so you'd better
start enjoying it NOW.
Btw, if Alan doesn't respond to this informative post, then I'm really
going to lean heavily toward the 'he's a troll' side.
missAlly
missAlly
xxn...@my-deja.com wrote: >
> I won't get into the discussion of what to do or what went wrong, but
...of course you WILL be bothered to tell us how we should behave...
> I will say that the discussion of whether this is a troll or not should stop right
> now.
<rolling eyes>
missAlly
missAlly
Seven
news:376C5433...@aol.com...
Wrong missAlly - I know Mary - we had lunch together once a few months ago.
She's very real and obviously in some emotional pain. What I told her, I'll
say to you as well. And I don't think you should jump in and kick her until
you at least make an effort to find out who she is. And even then, it's not
nice.
anon-...@anon.twwells.com
> Thank you Karen and Jennifer (and antiope).
>
> As for the rest of you:
>
> I assure you that every detail in my message was true, sans the first
> name.
If you've lurked here for any length of time you must be aware that
anyone and everyone with a computer and internet access can post here,
and people trolling for responses with outlandish stories dangled as
bait are not uncommon. These newsgroups are a completely open forum,
rather like a public bathroom wall, and regulars here often speculate
about the motivations of other unknown posters in that spirit. Please
don't take it personally when people do this; having said that, I
don't think it's a reasonable way to treat someone with a question
like yours in a *support* newsgroup, even if they do have suspicions.
As to your problem, my humble thoughts on the matter run rather along
the lines of Kare's. (Please note that I am just a pre-op MtF and have
no pshrinkological expertise.) You say that you had SRS in the last
few months and you have felt this way ever since returning from the
hospital, and now identify as a man (with a male nickname), yet you
lived happily as a woman for two years. You are aware, aren't you,
that some patients are initially shocked by the surgical result and
wonder if they made a mistake, then realise that it's what they really
wanted after all. Someone last year posted such feelings to this group
from her hospital bed. I can't imagine going through something like
this without experiencing a degree of grief over the loss of a part of
your body, even if you didn't have, shall we say, the warmest
relationship with it. Is there any chance that you've gotten stuck at
this stage and fallen into a rut of regretting what you can't go back
and undo? I can't help but wonder whether you might eventually get
through this phase and decide that having a vulva is what you dreamed
about, and the reality isn't so bad either... *if* you remain open to
new experiences and don't fixate on the should-have-dones.
Whatever else you do, *please* consult a therapist, if necessary
someone you haven't seen before but who has experience treating TS
folk. If you will say what area you are actually posting from (even
the nearest city would not compromise your anonymity), I am sure that
someone here could help put you in touch with a qualified counselor.
The physical symptoms you're describing (electric sensations) sound
IMHO like severe depression, and feeling "like an empty shell" sounds
like it *could* be high-intensity transsexualism (in your case FtM),
though it could be depression as well. Whichever it is, you should not
and need not have to deal with it alone.
As to reversing SRS, no I'm sad to say that I don't think your chances
are good at all. Consider the state of the art today for FtM bottom
surgery, it isn't very satisfactory even in the best of cases. Many
FtMs elect to remain non-op, and they have more tissue to work with
and more options (phalloplasty, metioidioplasty, etc.) than you do
now. I think it is probably more realistic to find some way to live
with the result you have. That's why it is so important that someone
taking this step be absolutely sure it's what they want; sex change is
basically *not* reversible, as I'm sure Dr. Meltzer explained to you.
This would perhaps be more convincing coming from a post-op, but from
a realistic standpoint, there are only two things you could do before
that you can't do now: have sex as a male and pee standing up, and
only the first of these is *really* impossible (see "drippy Julie"'s
postings on standing urination for hints on the second ;)). If it's
rather a body image problem, that's a whole different ball of wax and
I hope it's not the real problem because it would not be easily dealt
with surgically at this point. Hopefully you are going through some
kind of post-surgical depression that a compassionate counselor (and
perhaps medication) can help you with.
And to augment something that Kare said: please don't neglect your
dilation routine, even if you don't think you'll ever use the new
plumbing. You might change your mind, and reversing stenosis is not
easy and is usually unsatisfactory from what I've read. There is also
a chance of developing an internal infection if the vagina closes off
completely with bacteria trapped inside.
Kind regards,
- Liz
--
For info about this service, see http://www.twwells.com/anon/ or e-mail:
he...@anon.twwells.com -- for an automatically returned help message
ad...@anon.twwells.com -- for the service's administrator
ano...@anon.twwells.com -- anonymous mail to the administrator
anon-...@anon.twwells.com
> In article <7kf94l$jo8$1...@nnrp1.deja.com>,
> catw...@my-deja.com wrote:
>
> <diatribe against group snipped>
>
> Hmmmm . . . do you, by any chance, know Chaundra . . . ?
>
> You tipped your hand too soon.
"Chaundra" never posted from almaden.ibm.com. Or were you implying
something less specific?
sa_a...@my-deja.com
"Nicole Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
> Jennifer Lynn <jen...@magenet.com> wrote:
> > Does this not sound like massive post op depression??
>
> Jennifer, I appreciate your coming in to verify that Alan's plea for
help
> is genuine. And Alan, if you're listening, my heart does truly go
out to
> you.
>
> It's okay to feel awash in emotions telling you that screwed up your
whole
> life. That can happen to any of us. It's not okay to let that
prevent you
> from taking steps to regain control of yourself and your normally
reliable
> ability to make good, considered decisions.
>
> Nicki
>
Thank you for putting this up, Nicki. I agree with you.
Alan, you may or may not know me, but I've been around a while, as have
some of us older ones. I also know a bit about consumer behavior and
don't discount what Nicki just wrote about buyer's remorse. In your
30's, you've a lot of time to let things settle in, and you've a long
time left to do many things with your life. If you are correct in your
assement of your decision, you can do a lot anyhow and you've the time
and personal resources to accomplish it.
You've been offered a lot of support from a number of us, including a
couple of employees at your company who've been through all this from
the other perspective. You would be surprised to see just how much
strength you poseess were you to reach down into your person and use it.
If I can help, let me know.
Sallyanne
Starchild0
>Seven wrote: >
>
>> Just peeked into the group on a Saturday morning to see what my
>> friends are up to. Mary - I am really disappointed in you. I urge
>> you ? to look deep within yourself to find out why someone's pain
>> gives you joy. It is to me an indication of a dark despairing person
>> within yourself that would embrace such a thing. Seek your humanity,
>> Mary.
>
>Seven, Mary is a spammer. She'll be gone once she realizes NO one is
>interested in buying what she's selling.
missAlly, Mary is a person who was very active on this board for a while last
winter. She also has been active in the Gazebo, AOL's T chatroom. Mary has
been a friend of mine since we got to know each other last winter in this
newsgroup.
Her recent behavior is definitely disturbing and concerns me deeply. But I am
sure it is not because she is a spammer. I think she is having an emotional
breakdown. It saddens me to see this happening with her, because it seems she
is one of those folk who when in deep depression do not become simply suicidal
but homicidal. I for one tend to take such threats seriously. I pray she
listens to Seven and immediately gets some serious therapeutic help. If Mary's
wife is reading this, I want you to know my prayers are with you and I hope all
this works out positively for both *you* and Mary. But please, don't take any
risks if Mary is threatening violent behavior.
Take Care...Love & Joy! "Be Who You Need To Be!"
Miranda Meagan Keefe aka Starchild
http://www.geocities.com/WestHollywood/4174
-to email me remove "nojunk" from my address-
Karolina Lindqvist
MARY A TS wrote:
> They formed a POST OP list for the privledge.. They do not bive a rats ass
> about the younger sister who is about to have there SRS...
That is something I also have been thinking about post-op support.
Why not give the support pre-op? So that maybe there is less need
for post-op support.
It is something like support for those who tried suicide, and
failed. Of course, noone cared for those persons before they
tried. No wonder you have to do such a thing to get attention,
if you cannot get it any other way.
-- Karolina
Karolina Lindqvist
Amanda Michelle wrote:
> Yeah, right. It's attitudes like that that make people *not* want to
> help. You say you're 36, but you still have a *lot* of growing up to
> do.
Makes me get the picture of a person falling into the sea and
screaming loudly for help. Some person in a nearby boat
than complains about the loud screaming, and tells he will not
give help unless the screaming stops. Of course, if there were
ten nutcases, jumping into the sea at the same time, it can be
pretty hard to see who is actually screaming for help, and who
is just joking.
-- Karolina
Karolina Lindqvist
Amber Thompson wrote:
> As to breast reduction, once they are gone, your only option is
> implants. Sometimes in breast reduction surgery, the nipples will never
> have any feeling again.
Mine never had any feeling as a man anyways. But now when they
started to grow, the feeling also came. In fact, the feeling
in the whole breast area has increased a lot, and shows a
completely new character.
So if anyone goes FTM and looses the feeling, you are just in
the company of many genetic men. Men don't care very much for
subtle skin feelings anyways. They care more for feelings like
using strong bulging muscles.
-- Karolina
missAlly
Michelle Steiner wrote: >
> missAlly wrote: > >
> > MARY A TS wrote: > > >
> > > I will not go by the rule of sanity.
> > Honey, you couldn't if you tried.
> I doubt that you could either.
Care to explain what you mean?
missAlly
missAlly
Michelle Steiner wrote: >
> In article <376C5672...@aol.com>, missAlly <miss...@aol.com>
> wrote:
>
> > Btw, if Alan doesn't respond to this informative post, then I'm really
> > going to lean heavily toward the 'he's a troll' side.
>
> You can go to hell.
...and you can go to jail, go directly to jail, and if you pass go, do
not collect $200.
> Unlike you, he's for real.
Oh really?
missAlly
missAlly
Michelle Steiner wrote: >
> So, you can believe that Alan is a troll, and that Mary is a troll;
> that says more about you than about either of them.
Actually, their posts say a lot about the both of them.
missAlly
missAlly
Seven wrote: >
> Wrong missAlly - I know Mary - we had lunch together once a few months ago.
> She's very real and obviously in some emotional pain. What I told her,
...should have been done in private email if you didn't want me
commenting on it.
> I'll say to you as well.
I don't doubt that you will.
> And I don't think you should jump in and kick her until
> you at least make an effort to find out who she is.
I know who she is. She's mar...@aol.com. That's ALL I want to know
about her.
> And even then, it's not nice.
If I was 'kicking' her, no that wouldn't be nice, but I'm not kicking
her, I'm commenting on her behavior.
missAlly
missAlly
Starchild0 wrote: >
> missAlly, Mary is a person who was very active on this board for a while last
> winter. She also has been active in the Gazebo, AOL's T chatroom. Mary has
> been a friend of mine since we got to know each other last winter in this
> newsgroup.
So, what does this have to do with me?
> Her recent behavior is definitely disturbing and concerns me deeply.
Then tell HER about it.
> But I am sure it is not because she is a spammer.
Whatever.
> I think she is having an emotional breakdown.
You 'think'? You mean to tell me you don't KNOW?
> It saddens me to see this happening with her, because it seems she
> is one of those folk who when in deep depression do not become simply suicidal
> but homicidal.
What saddens me is that you say she's 'homicidal', but you're only
praying for her. Some friend you are.
> I for one tend to take such threats seriously.
Fine. Do something about it, besides run your mouth.
missAlly
missAlly
Michelle Steiner wrote: >
> She is telling the truth.
Maybe.
> One way we can help is to get her in touch
> with someone who is qualified;
I agree.
> another is to help her with practical advice to help her transition back.
If transitioning back IS the answer to her problem.
missAlly
Amber Thompson
Karolina Lindqvist wrote:
> So if anyone goes FTM and looses the feeling, you are just in
> the company of many genetic men. Men don't care very much for
> subtle skin feelings anyways. They care more for feelings like
> using strong bulging muscles.
>
> -- Karolina
Some men with sensitive nipples, think that makes them gay. However,
most men have somewhat sensitive nipples.
--
Amber Thompson
ICQ #5904742
http://homepages.together.net/~msfrost/tananda.html
Emi Melissa Briet
> emotional distress.
I can vouch for that...I talk to her in the Gazebo on AOL at times, and
her life *has* been rather stressful lately.
--Emi
--
Emi Briet -- Adecco's kawaii tempie-chan! ^_^
Keep hot water with you at all times!
RC[1.2]: r+(+) R!++ AG HS x++ SP Du+ m+ mu++ E:#transgen H F:+ a26
d+ s-: NA x Sch:CS,BA L:E ma+ M w++ N,IE
Mother Choriza
I hope the meaning of my post did not get lost because of my poor
proof reading. Or that you have not given up reading this thread.
I will reiterate my points one more time.
1.You are not unique. Your regret is much more common than anyone here
will admit.
2.There are options. None of the choices open to you will ensure your
happiness, but it is nice to know that there are choices.
3. There are groups that do have experience in 'de-transitioning'.
Please at least check them out. You can contact John at
hiso...@sprintmail.com and he can give you some information.
chri...@my-deja.com
"Nicole Ashley Hamilton" <hami...@hamiltonlabs.com> wrote:
>
> I'm old enough to know anything is possible and if indeed your story
is
> true, my heart goes out to you. But I admit I was (am) pretty
skeptical
> also (still). It's the sudden appearance of someone with no history
in the
> group offering up this story that sets off alarms that this must be a
> troll. Why did we never hear from you here before you went off to
SRS? If
> you weren't here for help then, why now?
>
Nicki
Like you, I am very suspious of this post. There is another on this list
who has posted a lot over the past month and has not yet commented on
this thread.
I sincerely hope that this story is not true.
Christine
Mary Frances Bartlett
mother...@webtv.net (Mother Choriza) writes:
> 3. There are groups that do have experience in 'de-transitioning'.
>Please at least check them out. You can contact John at
>hiso...@sprintmail.com and he can give you some information.
>
>
Actually I think that's "Jack" rather than John. He has a web sight at
http://members.tripod.com/~hisoasis/index.html
If the picture there is honest, he was a quite passable if not beautiful
woman. Sometimes I think great beauty might be a disadvantage to those among us
who aren't quite sure. They pass so well that the people around them assume
they must be women.
I can't imagine anyone, especially a mother, who would say anything to
someone about to undergo SRS other than " It's your life Hon, you have to make
this decision. If you want to go through with it, I'll stand behind you 100%.
If you want to go home now, I'll go get the car."
Another thing I think that adds to the pressure to have SRS is the elitist
attitude I see among some post ops. The " we don't consider you a woman if you
still have boy bits" attitude.
Just because some still have them doesn't mean they're "men" or Big haired,
blue eyeshadow wearing Springer wanna be's. It can just mean they need to take
more time than you did with such an important decision.
Don't begrudge them the "F" on their drivers license or the use of the ladies
room. They deserve it just as much as you did when you were pre-op.
I'll climb down off my soap box now
Flame away!
Fran
Carol Lee
mother...@webtv.net (Mother Choriza) wrote:
> Alan,
> I hope the meaning of my post did not get lost because of my poor
> proof reading. Or that you have not given up reading this thread.
> I will reiterate my points one more time.
> 1.You are not unique. Your regret is much more common than anyone here
> will admit.
Mother C: either you are simply being provacative making this statement, or
you have knowledge of something that may be informational to some here. What
does your statement mean? What do you know? What are you implying here
about regret and some in this NG? You have said: regret in having SRS is
common. Do you really mean common? Just curious.
Carol Lee
Vanderven
Before answering your letter, I need to make one precaution.
As someone who has worked with a few people suffering from regrets after
surgery, I have never met any who describe themselves as
>Once a glorious, twinkling star
>shining oh-so-bright over the horizon, with my future so bright I had to
>wear shades, I am now a ruin.
I have however heard many parents and siblings of TS children talk this way. In
some other circumstances I have heard this kind of imagery from Christian
ex-gay groups. Also I have heard parents say:
>I'm (He's) just a shy boy who was never really able to
>get a girlfriend and was afraid of being a man.
If you are indeed such a parent or relative, your plight is not less heavy and
you really need help. Maybe you feel responsible for your child's gender
problems, maybe you are full of fear, maybe you really could use some help
coping with this problem.
Taking your letter at face value, I have a real problem saying anything about
detransitioning. In your letter you show yourself to be a highly suggestable
person, and any suggestion of anybody who does not see you regularly can work
out dramatically wrong. But there are a few things that may be helpful to you
to hear right now.
The first is that depression is very common among post-op TSs. You are not
alone in this.
Also, there are a lot of people who can feel a genuine respect for people who
do their level best to make their lifes work, but fail. It may not seem so from
the bashing responses you have gotten thus far, but there really are a lot of
people who can understand the dillemas you have faced when making your
decision, as long as you are frank and open and take the responsibility for
your own actions.
The overwhelming feelings of depression you are now facing are often not the
best advisors when making your next big decision, especially not to have
yourself ushered into an operation room again. Whether you want to or not you
will first have to accept what has happened, and accept your own unicity.
Blaming is often the first step in a mourning process, a defense against the
real hurt and guilt you may feel. But as long as you blame yourself or others,
it will be hard to accept what has happened, and even harder to make decisions
for a better future. On day, you'll have to let go of blaming and take
responsibility without self reproach. You have done your level best at
resolving a deep conflict, that is all that counts.
You say you are simply a very shy boy. However, shy boys are usually to shy to
pass for a girl for two years. You may be a shy boy but you are other things
too, and those things have motivated what seemed to you a resolution of your
shyness. While you may not be a transsexual, you are very likely to at least be
a little bit of a transgendered person. That may make it difficult to go simply
go back to identifying as male. Your TG feelings are liely to come back to you
in the future again.
If you decide to detransition, there will be many people around you whose
support you will need. Those who have watched you through your first transition
may have gone through a painful process of accepting you in your feminine role.
They will now need to know who you are for real. Maybe you do not quite know
yet who you are, and maybe you are now even more suggestable then before,
listening all to closely to whomever offers a solution. But you owe it to your
important others, and to yourself, to take the time to find out who you really
are. You seem to realize now that you are not a woman, but it does not follow
you're a man. Please explore all your options and take some time before making
any choices. And please be honest with yourself about those feelings which
allowed you to live, without apparent conflict, as a woman for two years.
I'm sorry that this is all I have to offer right now. Again, if I take your
latter as you wrote it, you are a person who very much tried to become whole.
Now, after all you have invested in this process, you find yourself more
shattered and lonely then ever before. You deserve so much better, and yet this
is what has been dealt to you. I really hope that through all your pain you may
achieve some level of acceptence of yourself and your own situation, and that
you may come to see who you really are, so you can build a truly better life
for yourself.
Arianne.
grrl@petal
What other things in your life have crumbled in your hands before you
gave these things a chance to growe and settle in?
Has anything ever been good enough for you?
How many things in your life can be credited to self-sabotage?
Do you recognize where you're resposibility for your actions and
reactions begin?
In other words, do you understand your boundaries and limitations?
Do you know where your control over your own life begins and ends?
If you're ever going to blame anyone for you're troubles, will there
come a time when the blame extends no further than yourself?
Sympathy is easier to generate than the effort one must make in
accepting responsibility for one's actions, and certainly much easier
than weighing the positives and negatives therein.
Who ever owned your life but you, Alan?
Good luck, Alan. I have a sense that some of these questions may be
understandable and answerable, while others will not be permitted into
your consciousness for serious consideration, and still others will
kick in defense mechanisms. But understand these questions are
necessarily devoid of sentiment and empathy. These two qualities
seem quite abundant in your life. Yet they've led you nowhere.
Cindy
Anne
>
> > I will not go by the rule of sanity.
>
> Honey, you couldn't if you tried.
>
>
Hello All.
This has come up before in the newsgroup; though it's hard to imagine
why it should unless it's from someone other then a person in the "T"
community.
It isn't medically, and surgically possible to reverse SRS; gender
re-assignment surgery, and why for the love of life and God would one
want too? It's not a game, or a chameleons act. This surgery is not
about a demand, or a choice for most. It's about a life, and the quality
of that a life denied for ages.
It's hard to believe that someone would even contemplate it, let alone
boast about a fictious life-style; flipping back and forth. Serious
delusionist,dementia.
"A very sick and lonely person looking for undue attention using the
wrong platform".
I've heard a few people speak candidly and in confidence that they wish
they hadn't had the surgery ( post-operative counseling ), but they know
there's no going back. The surgeons make that perfectly clear prior to
taking the patient into the OR, be it m2f, or f2m, and for those who
don't know it, the guys have it sooo much harder then the women, but the
final exam is the same.
Hope the reality check was what you really needed.
Anne
Amanda Michelle
I'm stuck too. Anyone know where to go from here? Thanks!!
-------------------------------------
Now if this isn't some kiddo trying to get a rise, I don't know what
is.<<
I play "Tomb Raider," too (I'm currently muddling through TRII), and I
would take exception to being called a "kid," since I just turned 30
this May. Isn't it possible that this catware1 person really *does*
have a problem--and just likes to play video games?
Or are you only allowed to enjoy playing video games if you're under
21? ;Ž
--
Amanda
I'm *still* Boosteriffic!
Amanda Michelle
I am smiling on his failour... So I do not have no heart for that
looser<<
That reminds me... How do you do one of those "killfile" things to
automatically ignore specific posters?
Amanda Michelle
screaming loudly for help. Some person in a nearby boat
than complains about the loud screaming, and tells he will not
give help unless the screaming stops. Of course, if there were
ten nutcases, jumping into the sea at the same time, it can be
pretty hard to see who is actually screaming for help, and who
is just joking.<<
Actually, it's more like someone telling you what an @$$hole you are,
then falling into the sea and saying, "What the hell are you waiting
for, butthead? Save me!"
That's the kind of person that makes you wonder if they're *worth*
saving. I know it sounds harsh, but I just got through reading a bunch
more posts by this person, by accident, and I'm not feeling particularly
charitable right now.
Amanda Michelle
> emotional distress.
I can vouch for that...I talk to her in the Gazebo on AOL at times, and
her life *has* been rather stressful lately<<
In light of this information, I apologize for my posts.
Still, you must admit, to someone who has no prior knowledge about Mary,
her posts make her sound like a first-class troll.
*sigh* I think I'll just shut up now, and go back into lurk mode...
Amanda Michelle
gears?
I've completed the first Tomb Raider, and I still remember some of it,
so if you want some help with it, ask away! :)
missAlly
Amanda Michelle wrote: >
> I play "Tomb Raider," too (I'm currently muddling through TRII),
I play 'Tomb Raider' also. You missed my point.
> and I
> would take exception to being called a "kid,"
Why? Most people would die to be referred to as a 'kid'.
> since I just turned 30 this May.
Happy belated birthday.
> Isn't it possible that this catware1 person really *does*
> have a problem--and just likes to play video games?
ANYthing is possible.
Buy that story if you want, I don't. The poster said he/she had SRS a
'few months' ago. What the hell does that mean? Two, maybe three,
months?
> Or are you only allowed to enjoy playing video games if you're under
> 21? ;Ş
Actually, you're allowed to do anything you please---including NOT
having SRS if you're not 100 percent plus sure it's what you really
want.
missAlly
Lisanne Anderson
Flame you? How absurd. And if anyone does that it would cause me to wonder
about the level of their mental development.
Oh, some of the post-ops do act as if they have acheived a superiority over
those who haven't. I suppose that this is in some ways understandable, it is
indeed a difficult step to undertake, and they feel that they have acheived
something of true significance. And, no doubt they have. But post-ops do have a
responsibility as well, which many of them eithetr do not realize, take
lightly, or ignore. that responsibility to all of those people who are just
begnning on this road, and may become confused quite early as to what this is
all about.
And what is this about, indeed! It's about finding and then becoming
yourself. One needs time to do that, and perhaps the mad rush to SRS that
becomes te focus of so many of us makes us lose sight of this much more
important goal. One can find one'd self without SRS, and SRS does not cause one
to have any great strides forward in self-enlightenment, save for the
unfortunate ones who decide, after it is all done, that it was a poor choice to
have made.
You and I can shout from thehighest mountain the simple declarative
statement that SRS is not the goal, and it will fall upon deaf ears. For there
are many here who wish to parade their post-;p status, and act as if they have
joined some secret society whose handshakes are only known to the initiated.
So, they entice others into their ranks with assurances that this is the only
way to be a woman. They comdemn those who call themselves non-ops; of course,
these can't be allowed into the ranks of true transsexuals." Burn the heretics"
they cry, lighting torches. Flame them into silence.
So, we end up with Alans from time to time. Oh, I will say that Alan is far
from the worst case imaginable. We wil not hear from these people, they
recognize that by stating that they made a mistake they risk the wrath of the
true believers. Alan will be brought back into the fold, they will be made to
understand that their dissatisfaction is temporary. But others may be more
psychologically damaged.
This is a really serious medical procedure, with consequences that may
affect the health of some for awhile afterwards.. There is physical pain, there
are medical compliacations. They may be, as Alan has said, a weird feeling
about one's body afterwards. And much more.
Yes, I do believe that this is a choice that is the right one for many of
us. But it is not the right choice for all of us. Just as transition is not the
right choice for all of us. And the argument that has been made that any who
can successfully transition would not suffer any doubts after SRS is absurd.
The human mind is a pretty complicated thing, and sometimes we surprise
ourselves by reactions that seem to be contary to what we believed that they
would be. But if we listen to ourselves, instead of the SRS brigade, then we
might discover what psychological obstacles we need to overcome first.
Instead of looking down upon pre-ops, instead of declaring war on non-ops
and TG's and other gender variant people, we should be discussing the role of
self-determination. And the exercise of personal responsibility. And I blame
all of us for this, each one of us has played a part in shifting the focus of
the dialogue away from the direction that it should go. It must be stressed,
again and again, that what the goal for one person is should not be the
guidelines for the goals of another. In short, I ask everyone to start thinking
for themselves.
I shall wonder long and hard about whether I can ever take seriously anyone
who would dare flame these words. We are talking about people's live here, it
is not the proper time for the playing of games about semantics.
Lisanne
Hey, don't blame me for this, I only write the stuff
cat...@hotmail.com
> I play 'Tomb Raider' also. You missed my point.
And I, too, miss your point.
The post to a.g.t was a test post to see if posting through deja.com was
anonymous. I thought it was. Other people on this list have pseudonyms
and don't disclose where they live/work. I am very displeased that some
people have been focusing on tracking me down and keep announcing their
latest hypotheses on my true identity to the world.
> > Isn't it possible that this catware1 person really *does*
> > have a problem--and just likes to play video games?
I don't need help on TR. I've played through all three. Also, there are
some wonderful walkthroughs already available on the net.
>
> ANYthing is possible.
>
> Buy that story if you want, I don't. The poster said he/she had SRS a
> 'few months' ago. What the hell does that mean? Two, maybe three,
> months?
What difference does the exact number of months make?
Also, if you read my post from Saturday, I said I had it in April.
Furthermore, if you've read other people's posts on this thread, several
have said they either remember me from Portland and/or know me in
person. Do you doubt all of us?
> Actually, you're allowed to do anything you please---including NOT
> having SRS if you're not 100 percent plus sure it's what you really
> want.
And believe me, I am suffering for that decision now.
Catware
cat...@hotmail.com
thought the thread was getting too long at the time. In reading posts
from Sunday and today it seems a lot of people missed it.----
Thank you to all who have replied to my [original post on Friday] with
intelligent, well-thought out replies. You've all given me a lot to
think about. Those who remember me from Eastmoreland in April, yes I'm
the one. Those who have sent me private e-mail, I hope I've answered
your questions.
I do feel like I've made a mistake, though. Someone wrote in their
reply about the young ones never fully experiencing what it is to be a
man before they decide to transition. It is this that is troubling me.
My decision to go ahead with this, even though I was very, very against
it, was primarily because of those in their mid 30's and older who told
me that eventually, even if I de-transitioned now (before SRS), I would
be back up there at the doors of the hospital in the future, only with
reduced physical success at passing and possibly a family left behind.
I'm not so sure that is true. I really should have experienced it for
myself. What ever happened to the 'only 1% of ts people end up having
SRS' statistic? This whole thing was too easy for me (health insurance
even covered the bill).
Part of my problem, too, is that the surgical result feels HORRIBLE.
HORRIBLE. I tucked tightly everyday for 2 years prior to this, and I
could better deal with the result if it simply felt like a tight tuck.
But it doesn't. Due to the fan fold that Meltzer does, it feels like my
penis is glued to my stomach. It's like having an eyelid taped open and
your hands tied behind your back. You really want to close it, but
cannot. It's a horrible anxiety feeling.
And I did, honest to God, tell all my doubts to my therapist. I even
expressed serious paranoia and conspiracy theories to her in multiple
sessions within a month of the surgery date. She said she was going to
pull the letter she'd written for me, but didn't for some reason.
I will be seeing some of the 'local community' again soon. I'll see
what happens from there.
Thanks again,
Catware
P.S. Despite the fact that my first thought waking up after the
procedure was 'Oh my God, no!' and I've not once in 2 1/2 months been
happy that this was done, something happened to me my 4th night postop
I can't explain.
I was asleep at 3 a.m. and suddenly everything became very, very bright
with the faintest hint of clouds and a woman's voice came to me, louder
than a dream voice had ever been in the past. She said, "(myname),
you're lying in the hospital recovering from major surgery." At that
point two chalkboards appeared and the 5 types of male vs. the 5 types
of female personality appeared. "You have a Type I female personality.
We're sorry we made a mistake long ago when you were born, but you made
the right decision." The image faded and I was at once wide awake in
bed.
It was unlike any dream I've ever had, and I knew it to not be a dream
at all, but a message aimed directly at me from my guardian angel. I'm
having difficulty reconciling that message with how I currently feel.
I'm probably just going crazy.
Mother Choriza
words. The truth of the matter is that there is a quite a bit of
documentation regarding the 'success' rates of srs. First allow me to
point out that the state of Oregon considered having state funded srs.
The decision of the educated health care 'experts' was that having srs
did not improve the patients life in any measurable amount. Further,
from a study in the Netherlands the morbidity rates of TSs recieving
treatment was some twenty times higher than the general population.
Nearly all of the increase was from either suicide or from risk taking
activities. Please do a deja news on me to find the specfic link to the
sudy, it is quite eye opening.
Continuing on with this train of thought; there are many post-op TSs
who at points in their lives will complain that they should not have had
the weenie whacked. I know many TSs who have had moments of despair.
Usually we just except our lot and continue on. Yet there are others
who...
Please keep in mind that if a person was unhappy in their new roles, I
do not think that they would turn to this forum for information on how
to change back. It could be looked at that 'we' were the ones that
steered them in this direction. Why would we be the ones that a unhappy
camper would turn to?
I can not give specific statistics as to who is happy and who is not;
but Alan is not unique and he repersents a number that will not usuall
turn to us for advice. Alan is real. Those that do not believe it are
deludeing themselves with denial.
jacksp...@my-deja.com
mother...@webtv.net (Mother Choriza) wrote:
Snip
My friend
> undertook her detransition at an unfortunate period of her life, she
was
> suffering what turned out to be the last stages of HIV. Her ability to
> regain her maleness was limited by time consideration, and her general
> health.
Snip
MC,
Did your friend that died of HIV/AIDS happen to go my the name Lisa?
Reason I ask is that I had a friend in a similar situation that died of
AIDS and that was the name that he went by.
Jack
Karolina Lindqvist
Lisanne Anderson wrote:
> And what is this about, indeed! It's about finding and then becoming
> yourself. One needs time to do that, and perhaps the mad rush to SRS that
> becomes te focus of so many of us makes us lose sight of this much more
> important goal. One can find one'd self without SRS, and SRS does not cause one
> to have any great strides forward in self-enlightenment, save for the
> unfortunate ones who decide, after it is all done, that it was a poor choice to
> have made.
........
> Instead of looking down upon pre-ops, instead of declaring war on non-ops
> and TG's and other gender variant people, we should be discussing the role of
> self-determination. And the exercise of personal responsibility. And I blame
> all of us for this, each one of us has played a part in shifting the focus of
> the dialogue away from the direction that it should go. It must be stressed,
> again and again, that what the goal for one person is should not be the
> guidelines for the goals of another. In short, I ask everyone to start thinking
> for themselves.
(I don't know if we speak about the same thing. I have put some kind of disclaimer
now, since,... these NGs are so confusing.)
The discussions here are very much focused on the external. How to modify
the body to look more female, and how to pass better, howto this and howto
that. I really miss what I think is the most important part, the internal. It is
sometimes like, if I just make this surgery, or that surgery, all my life's problem
will be solved. That might be true, if all the lifes problem really is the
external,
but most of us also have deep internal problems that has to be solved also.
In the very beginning I was very happy to find the TS-people. I was thinking
"so nice, a group of people who think like me". But as my transition is
progressing, I get less and less of that feeling. It makes me wonder where
it went wrong? Is this a normal development, or is it just me?
My interests seems to be focused in a completely different direction, and
the similarities seems to be only external. That I also have a need to modify
my body. The outside, but how about the inside?
A funny thought. Before SRS, one is TS, after SRS one is female. I have
ready it many times here. The surgeons scalpel seems to be the magic
vand that turns a person from male into female. This is post-op talk,
but that SRS does not change anything is also. Sometimes I wonder if
I also will speak like that, once having been initiated into the secret club.
I met three genetic girls, a couple of weeks ago. There was a meeting,
with a group of people, and they came first, before the others. I was
actually a little bit terrified (now someone says, that I am on the wrong
track, if I get scared to speak with women). I am not used to pure women's
talk, and I tend to be completely quiet in such situations. But to be quiet
is nothing wrong in the women's world. That is allowed. Still, these three girls
appeared concerned that I was part of their group, and checked from
time to time make sure I really was. And I did feel part of the group.
I had to contrast this with my experience of meeting a group of men. In
such a group noone cares for you, unless you speak up and make
yourself heard. A group of men is competing, and you have to compete
to match up. A group of women is including and the goal of the group
is to include others, not to establish a hierachy within itself.
Stereotyped, maybe. Probably.
So how is it with post-ops. Are they including or competing? Of course
it cannot be generalized. It is an individual thing. But I sometimes get the
feeling that some bang on the big drum, say "I am a women", bang, bang,
"you are TS", bang, bang. That the most important thing is not to establish
a bond between us, but to establish the hierarchy.
So I wonder if it really is like this, or if it is just my perception? Maybe it
is a teenage-grown-up-thing. You cannot become a grown-up before
you have forgotten how it was to be a teenager. Here, where the TS are the
teenagers, and the grown-ups just are women.
-- Karolina
tracy
>So how is it with post-ops. Are they including or competing? Of course
>it cannot be generalized. It is an individual thing. But I sometimes get the
>feeling that some bang on the big drum, say "I am a women", bang, bang,
>"you are TS", bang, bang. That the most important thing is not to establish
>a bond between us, but to establish the hierarchy.
Karolina,
Those who talk the loudest can drowned out the others -
but, if you *really* listen, you'll hear other, more
compassionate post-op voices (even here).
Tracy
not all .
--
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Karen Elizabeth A.
participate here. I come back and i see this...
missAlly <miss...@aol.com> wrote:
> ant...@xs4all.nl wrote: >
>
> > I really hate it when people judge about someone who writes for the first
> > time and has been so honest.
>
> So what? Honey this is the internet, one should ALLways be skeptical of
> first time posters.
Why? is this not supposed to be a support group?
You don't know if someone posted under a nother name in the past or not.
Secondly, isn't it wiser to accept such posts at face value, even if one
is skeptical just in case?
If it turns out to be a hoax, has it really hurt you - or just made you
feel foolish? Can't you risk looking foolish instead of possibly hurting
someone who is already hurting badly???
I read where people were trashing Alan because he writes too well...
Strange thing is we all know that most T*'s seem to be significantly
above average intellegence.
Allan, IMO is hurting and crying out. He may never have been TS and
things may be exactly as he says or he may be afraid that he will be as
inadequate as a woman as he felt as a man and the finality of SRS has
tapped that insecurity. I don't know.
Whatever the situation. isn't it best to simply believe that *Allan*, AT
THIS POINT IN TIME, believes what he has written? And if so, one has to
have some compassion for the hurt.
The enviornment of judgementalism and skeptism created by a few long
time posters is infectious. God help anyone who comes here looking for
support who is an out of the ordinary TS or T* for whatever reason.
Maybe now do the Chaundra supporters will understand why that innocently
intentioned hoax was so out of place.
If I'm wrong and it is a hoax, how have I beem lessened by being taken
in? Can someone explain that to me?
-Karen A.
~mme
in alt.support.srs:
> As for being Dutch ... isn't that part of Denmark?
nope. you got it backwards.
--
.
~mme
in alt.support.srs:
> >As for being Dutch ... isn't that part of Denmark?
> Well, at least she didn't ask whether it is part of Germany, otherwise all
> the Antjes would have stormed in here with foam on their mouth...... :-)
heheh. methinks 'claudia' is a very nice french name.
--
.
Karen Elizabeth A.
> Jennifer Lynn wrote: >
>
> > Honey, please write again, and we'll see what we can do to help.
>
> Who here IS qualified to 'help' this person? This is a ng. If this
> poster IS telling the truth, she should talk to someone who is qualified
> to handle her situation.
Help? sometimes lending a sympathetic ear wihout being judgemental helps
a lot. One can be supportive withput giving specific advice on what to
to do. Pointing out options and possibilities is one way.. Some virtual
hand-hollding is another. What qualifictions beyound some sensitivity,
compassion and humanity are required to do that?
I do think it's likely that the emotional dynamics are complex here -
but it's simple to understand that pain is pain whatever the reason for
it.
- Karen A.
Nicole Hamilton
> No, silly, Canada is part of Texas. Where do you
> think they get the cowboys and indians from?
Off-shore manufacturing?
Nicki
Karolina Lindqvist
> Those who talk the loudest can drowned out the others -
> but, if you *really* listen, you'll hear other, more
> compassionate post-op voices (even here).
So true.
Thank you for reminding me.
Toni Roome
> Mother Choriza <mother...@webtv.net> wrote:
> > Further,
> > from a study in the Netherlands the morbidity rates of TSs recieving
> > treatment was some twenty times higher than the general population.
>
>
The Dutch study *I* read was really an analysis of the effect on
morbidity of hormone treatment, finding that the only significant
difference in the group studied compared to the general population was
in the suicide (and unaccounted) rate, which was significantly higher.
However it was still not very high, because the base rate it was
compared with was low anyway.
Since the study didn't differentiate between pre- and post-ops it said
nothing about post-op regret.
There was another Dutch study which did look at post-op regret. They
only managed to find 10 cases to study, and most (all?) were in
circumstances where the people inviolved had had significant doubts
pre-op that should have been picked up by the professionals involved
(all the people concerned were outside the 'official' program).
Of course from what Alan says, he did have issues about srs before his
op, and of course these should have been picked up and more appropiate
advice given.
hugs,
--
Toni
"One should, each day, try to hear a little song,
read a good poem, see a fine picture, and, if it is
possible, speak a few reasonable words" (Goethe)
missAlly
cat...@hotmail.com wrote: >
> missAlly wrote: > >
> The post to a.g.t was a test post to see if posting through deja.com was
> anonymous. I thought it was.
And it probably would've been if you hadn't been so personal in your
post to this group.
> Other people on this list have pseudonyms
> and don't disclose where they live/work.
And they don't have to disclose ANY information they deem personal.
Heck, I don't. That's why if someone questions the validity of who I am
or what I post, I have to deal with it---it's one of the prices one pays
for internet anonymity.
> I am very displeased that some
> people have been focusing on tracking me down and keep announcing their
> latest hypotheses on my true identity to the world.
Well I, for one, haven't been bothered to do so, because I fully respect
your right to privacy. It shouldn't matter one iota who you are, just
what you have to say about the subject of this ng.
> I don't need help on TR. I've played through all three. Also, there are
> some wonderful walkthroughs already available on the net.
And not to mention the archives for a.g.tr. Have you tried playing TR3
yet?
> What difference does the exact number of months make?
None, I was curious as to how many months after SRS it would take before
someone was able to sit up and play a game as demanding as TR2.
> Also, if you read my post from Saturday, I said I had it in April.
I didn't see that post (I had server problems that day). Is two and a
half months about right?
> Furthermore, if you've read other people's posts on this thread,
Hopefully you've read ALL the posts on this thread. There's a gem or
two in each one.
> several
> have said they either remember me from Portland and/or know me in
> person.
Why should that matter to me?
> Do you doubt all of us?
Is who or what I doubt really important?
> > Actually, you're allowed to do anything you please---including NOT
> > having SRS if you're not 100 percent plus sure it's what you really
> > want.
> And believe me, I am suffering for that decision now.
Why are you 'suffering'?
missAlly
missAlly
"Karen Elizabeth A." wrote: >
> missAlly wrote: > >
> Between work and being out of state for the last 4 days, I've not
> participate here.
Welcome back.
> I come back and i see this...
...same ole stuff ya saw before ya left.
> > So what? Honey this is the internet, one should ALLways be skeptical of
> > first time posters.
> Why?
Because people feed you ALL kinds of bullshit over the internet. This
ng is NO exception.
> is this not supposed to be a support group?
Yes it IS, but it's also a target for the likes of fundamentalist beeble
thumpers out to discredit our lifestyle(s). It's best to keep your wits
about you.
> You don't know if someone posted under a nother name in the past or not.
Why should that matter?
> Secondly, isn't it wiser to accept such posts at face value, even if one
> is skeptical just in case?
Maybe, maybe not. That choice is up to the discretion of a subscriber.
> If it turns out to be a hoax, has it really hurt you - or just made you
> feel foolish?
Neither. I don't invest my feelings into what's being posted to a ng.
I just enjoy the occasional gems that pop up.
> Can't you risk looking foolish instead of possibly hurting
> someone who is already hurting badly???
Please point out where I've hurt someone 'badly'.
> I read where people were trashing Alan because he writes too well...
I don't think he was being trashed for writing well, I just think some
posters had reservations about what he wrote.
> Strange thing is we all know that most T*'s seem to be significantly
> above average intellegence.
Why is that 'significant'?
> Allan, IMO is hurting and crying out.
And you're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, but that
doesn't make it true.
> He may never have been TS
I doubt that, heck, the guy HAD SRS.
> and things may be exactly as he says
Maybe, maybe not.
> or he may be afraid that he will be as
> inadequate as a woman as he felt as a man and the finality of SRS has
> tapped that insecurity. I don't know.
You surely don't. Why not ASK Alan how he feels?
> Whatever the situation. isn't it best to simply believe that *Allan*, AT
> THIS POINT IN TIME, believes what he has written?
Some people believe in pink elephants, should we ALL be expected to do
the same?
> And if so, one has to
> have some compassion for the hurt.
Why?
> The enviornment of judgementalism and skeptism created by a few long
> time posters is infectious.
Nope. It's normal.
> God help anyone who comes here looking for
> support who is an out of the ordinary TS or T* for whatever reason.
Alan has gotten support (he has also gotten some flames, but that comes
with the territory).
> Maybe now do the Chaundra supporters will understand why that innocently
> intentioned hoax was so out of place.
I wasn't around then, so 'NO comment'.
> If I'm wrong and it is a hoax, how have I beem lessened by being taken
> in?
Being 'gullible' never suited me well.
> Can someone explain that to me?
It's a lesson you'll surely learn in life.
missAlly
missAlly
"Karen Elizabeth A." wrote: >
> missAlly wrote: > >
> > Who here IS qualified to 'help' this person? This is a ng. If this
> > poster IS telling the truth, she should talk to someone who is qualified
> > to handle her situation.
> Help? sometimes lending a sympathetic ear wihout being judgemental helps
> a lot.
So does being honest.
> One can be supportive withput giving specific advice on what to
> to do.
What good is advice if it's not specific?
> Pointing out options and possibilities is one way.. Some virtual
> hand-hollding is another.
So is a good dose of reality.
> What qualifictions beyound some sensitivity,
> compassion and humanity are required to do that?
Knowledge?
> I do think it's likely that the emotional dynamics are complex here -
It's likely.
> but it's simple to understand that pain is pain whatever the reason for
> it.
What you call 'pain', some may call 'pleasure'---not so 'simple', is it?
missAlly
Karen Elizabeth A.
whole issue of situations like this here. It was noty amined primarily
at you.
missAlly <miss...@aol.com> wrote:
> > Can't you risk looking foolish instead of possibly hurting
> > someone who is already hurting badly???
>
> Please point out where I've hurt someone 'badly'.
Questioning the validity of painful stuff that one has shared can really
hurt. I know. It was done to me. Hell I was even told here I should not
have had SRS and that my SRS was a tragic.
It was the best thing i had done and am very glad I did despite my
overal situaltion not being near ideal.
> > I read where people were trashing Alan because he writes too well...
>
> I don't think he was being trashed for writing well, I just think some
> posters had reservations about what he wrote.
>
> > Strange thing is we all know that most T*'s seem to be significantly
> > above average intellegence.
>
> Why is that 'significant'?
Because it would explain the way the posts were wordred - which some
used a "evidence" that Allen is a fake.
> > Allan, IMO is hurting and crying out.
>
> And you're entitled to your opinion as is everyone else, but that
> doesn't make it true.
And it does not make it not true either. My point was assuming it is
true has a lot less down side potential (IMO) then assuming it's not
with the information on hand.
> > He may never have been TS
>
> I doubt that, heck, the guy HAD SRS.
>
> > and things may be exactly as he says
>
> Maybe, maybe not.
It's not for us to judge. I *do* have an opinion - but I recognize it as
an unsubstaiated one.
> > or he may be afraid that he will be as
> > inadequate as a woman as he felt as a man and the finality of SRS has
> > tapped that insecurity. I don't know.
>
> You surely don't. Why not ASK Alan how he feels?
Because I'm addressing the *climate* that fosters these types of
reponses.
> > Whatever the situation. isn't it best to simply believe that *Allan*, AT
> > THIS POINT IN TIME, believes what he has written?
>
> Some people believe in pink elephants, should we ALL be expected to do
> the same?
And you believe, despite all objective evidence to the contary, that you
are a woman... many would say *you* believe in pink elephants...
> > And if so, one has to
> > have some compassion for the hurt.
>
> Why?
A sense of compassion and humanity! Are you perfect?
> > The enviornment of judgementalism and skeptism created by a few long
> > time posters is infectious.
>
> Nope. It's normal.
<sigh> It's normal because of a few people I could name. I've been here
for a number of years and that continues to be the case.
> > God help anyone who comes here looking for
> > support who is an out of the ordinary TS or T* for whatever reason.
>
> Alan has gotten support (he has also gotten some flames, but that comes
> with the territory).
When someone is in a very bad place emotionally flames can push themover
the edge. Sad, but true. If one knows that, then one bears *some*
responsibility for the possible effects of their flames.
This has been a place where life and death has literally been dealt with
- more then once. A person is alive today because someone here cared
enough.
> > If I'm wrong and it is a hoax, how have I beem lessened by being taken
> > in?
>
> Being 'gullible' never suited me well.
Because of your own insecurity maybe?
> > Can someone explain that to me?
>
> It's a lesson you'll surely learn in life.
I've been hurt by being intentionally naive at times, but I've also
gained much more then I've lost by it.
Why are you so sour?
-Karen A.
Karen Elizabeth A.
> > One can be supportive withput giving specific advice on what to
> > to do.
>
> What good is advice if it's not specific?
You would *not* like my therapist! ;-)
> > Pointing out options and possibilities is one way.. Some virtual
> > hand-hollding is another.
>
> So is a good dose of reality.
People have to be ready to deal with reality before they can see it
sometimes... also when it comes to matters like this, *is* there an
objective reality?
> > What qualifictions beyound some sensitivity,
> > compassion and humanity are required to do that?
>
> Knowledge?
Often you can't gain the knowledge until you do some hand-holding and
the person gets past a crisis point.
> > I do think it's likely that the emotional dynamics are complex here -
>
> It's likely.
>
> > but it's simple to understand that pain is pain whatever the reason for
> > it.
>
> What you call 'pain', some may call 'pleasure'---not so 'simple', is it?
In my expereince that's rare. As I said in another post, I'd rather get
played for a fool then take the chance of hurting someone who is already
hurting. It does not lessen me *in my eyes* in any way.
-Karen A.
Wendy
orchiectomy and saline implants. I had the implants removed with very
little scarring. Even though my electrolysis was completes---I COULD
PASS for male and did.
PLEASE PLEASE Alan, take your time before altering your body. I never
could Face taking testosterone and just took norethindrone for hormone
replacement.
Detransition did NOT remove my demons and many years later I resumed
living as a girl and had srs.
I am inorgasmic and I cry sometimes when I try to masturbate and can't
cum. I am lonely and life is sure not perfect but I'm Okay.
Some of us have more mid-line hermaphroditic gender identities than
others, or simply don't even think of ourselves as a sex. I'm certainly
a transexual of sort and would Not consider any sort of genital
reversal, as I do Like the way I look down there now, but it just
doesn't stimulate very easily.
Please stay away from those Christian idiots Mother Choriza spoke of---I
saw them RUIN a post-op friend of mine. I'm not against religeon, it can
be very comforting for some people, but those anti trans folks have a
strange obcession that with god-as-a-medical-healer that reminds me of
such quacks as Oral Roberts.
If you Gotta be a man--DO--but do it and be SURE before you mess with
your hormones or genitals. (saline implants can be replaced easily if
you need to remove them) Going back to male surely wasn't a solution for
me--and srs wasn't perfect either---but I intend to do my best.
You can find a girlfriend out there who can accept you as a woman-man-or
in-between. Even if you Did mess up--life isn't over. You are very
young--and I'm guessing this is classic case of the young- pretty ts
girl being rubber stamped for surgery just cause she's so adorable.
That's always been a problem and sadly gender specialists and surgeons
can't seem to learn to look deeper.
Karen Ross
news:21766-37...@newsd-121.bryant.webtv.net...
>...You are very
> young--and I'm guessing this is classic case of the young- pretty ts
> girl being rubber stamped for surgery just cause she's so adorable.
> That's always been a problem and sadly gender specialists and surgeons
> can't seem to learn to look deeper.
That wasn't really the case this time. The problem was that she was very
bright, knew the literature well and could consistantly tell everyone what
they expected to hear. When she expressed reservations, she either
countered them with other positive feelings or changed her mind. It's not
hard to out-smart the system. The problem is that she out-smarted herself.
The system is not set-up to effectively catch people like that and protect
them from themselves. People complain here at obsurd length sometimes about
how difficult it is to jump through the hoops to get SRS. But it isn't.
"Alan's" complaint is that it wasn't hard enough to protect him from
himself. If the system was so strict that all "Alan"s would be weeded-out,
few real TS people who'd benefit from SRS would ever make it through. Those
that try to out-smart the system can and do get SRS. But they pay the price
afterwards. When they do, they need to do some serious work to put their
lives back together. That can be done. But it can't be done by living
isolated in a box and blaming everyone else. Blame isn't helpful because it
stands in the way of making the kind of changes that are needed to put a
life back together.
-- Kare
Karen Ross
news:7ktj3m$6l$1...@bgtnsc02.worldnet.att.net...
>> People complain here at obsurd length sometimes about
>> how difficult it is to jump through the hoops to get SRS. But it isn't.
>
> it was of absurd length. Does that mean that I had problems
> following and satisfying the current or any of the previous versions?
I don't recall seeing your post nor was my comment addressed to it. Over
the years a number of folks have made such complaints. Some have gone on at
length making them. Their arguments aren't impressive. People who really
want to transition, transition. People find a way. It was a lot more
difficult back in the early seventies when I did, but I knew a number of
people who did it. For the most part, all those who wanted SRS eventually
got it. And in proportion to salary levels, SRS is much cheaper now and
other help is much more available too. It's always been difficult for those
without much money. I started out broke and unemployed when I transitioned.
Sixteen months later I had SRS. It's not easy, necessarily, but it can be
done - even when the odds seem impossible. Of course there are exceptions.
Some can't muster the level of sanity needed to hold a job. A few are too
physically handicapped. And some lose their way in alcohol and drugs. But
most can and do make it. If anything I think it's too easy to get SRS now.
That's why we have people like "Alan" who come back and complain because no
one stopped them.
-- Kare
Analise Ferne
You made some really sensible remarks. And I think it is about time that
people recognize as calid what you said here.
>Some can't muster the level of sanity needed to hold a job. A few are too
>physically handicapped. And some lose their way in alcohol and drugs.
Yes, exactly. And I think that they are a larger nuymber than you might
expect. This is really a very emotionally draining experience, you know. from
the first realizations in childhood, through the failed start-ups, through the
apprehensions and fears that accompany the early parts of iur transition, to
dealing with all the losses. This take it toll on a lot of people. Soem get
stranded in the middle, and some turn back to where they came from, convinced
that they cannot succeed.
I am sure that you know a lot of people who made it through. The ones who
didn't oftentimes disappear, and are forgotten. We need not worry about these
failures, for they make us look bad, and make us feel bad.
Alan's situation does prove once more than money and aggressiveness is
everything in being a MtoF. Those of us who are less aggressive find that they
can't achieve the level of financial success to pay for SRS. Some of these
people are struggling just to make ends meet, they have not the means to save
any money at all. I think they call that a beta personality pattern. But maybe
you just believe that they don't want it badly enough.
Analise
Karen Ross
news:19990624162654...@ng65.aol.com...
...Yes, exactly. And I think that they are a larger nuymber than you might
> expect. This is really a very emotionally draining experience, you know.
from
> the first realizations in childhood, through the failed start-ups, through
the
> apprehensions and fears that accompany the early parts of iur transition,
to
> dealing with all the losses. This take it toll on a lot of people. Soem
get
> stranded in the middle, and some turn back to where they came from,
convinced
> that they cannot succeed.
Nevertheless, the main battle is internal and the real message is very
empowering. It *can* be done. Most who focus on it *can* succeed. When
you believe that you ca't do it, then you truely can't. When you insist
that you can do it, you can overcome tremendous odds. Reality seldom
rewards those who give up.
> I am sure that you know a lot of people who made it through. The ones
who
> didn't oftentimes disappear, and are forgotten. We need not worry about
these
> failures, for they make us look bad, and make us feel bad.
I started in a support group. I knew what happened to each of them. Some
decided that they weren't TS and didn't want to change. One died of
malnutrition - a long story. Several were middle-aged and not willing to
give-up what they would have had to give up to transition. Several were
middle-aged and gave up all to transition and get SRS. One was middle-aged
and had been trying to get SRS since the early fifties. The rest of us were
mostly just out of high school, just dropped-out or only a year or two out
of college. All of us got SRS withing about three years or less. I knew a
couple who got trapped in heroin. Some who hooked and at least one drunk.
But most succeeded.
I know a physician who treats many TS folks. She told me that of those
patients who seriously want SRS and persist in there goal, nearly all
succeed. I believe she is right. Nearly all of those who do not go one to
SRS are those that decide that SRS is not for them and drop-out along the
way. That's the same now as it was back in the early seventies.
> Alan's situation does prove once more than money and aggressiveness is
> everything in being a MtoF. Those of us who are less aggressive find that
they
> can't achieve the level of financial success to pay for SRS. Some of these
> people are struggling just to make ends meet, they have not the means to
save
> any money at all. I think they call that a beta personality pattern. But
maybe
> you just believe that they don't want it badly enough.
In my experience that is true. One TS woman I know is amoung the least
aggressive most "beta" people I've ever met. She transitioned in about 1997
and took a low paying job. She was careful with her money and focused
intently on her goal. She had SRS a few days ago. I've seen that happen
over and over again. Of course if you don't want it badly enough, you won't
focus your effort. That is your choice. But to assert that simply because
you aren't aggressive that it can't be done is self-deception. It spares
you the hard work and sacrifice that's required. It's simply self
dis-empowerment. And most folks need to know that that need not be so. And
of course if you are ambivelant about SRS, it's so easy to excuse and deny
your inaction by just claiming it can't be done. Such denials without a
solid and indisputable disability simply aren't believable.
-- Kare