Transfeminism
Natasha Thompson
Transfeminism.org Forum is owned and run, by Emi Koyama and
Diana Courvant. Not too long ago I posted a message there and
was immediately accused of fraud by Emi (an ISNA Intern and
ISNA's web mistress). My character was further attacked, and
my replies to accusations made by Emi, and one of her friends
Niki, were deleted, and I was banned from their forum.
It came to my attention recently, through a disclosure by
someone who met Emi, that she is now aware that I did not make
a false claim when I spoke of my Intersex condition. So I took
a chance and posted this below on their forum this evening.
My post is in response to one of Emi's post there. I just
checked and I must admit that I am very surprised to see my
post is still up, for in the past they were taken down and
replaced with strong denouncements, in less than two hours. I
have yet to be denounced like I was before, as a counter
revolutionary Transsexual colonizer, cisgendered heterosexist
tool of the patriarchy. I wonder if dissenting voices are now
tolerated on her forum? Well, time will tell.
A cut and paste of my post on Transfeminism.org Forum, is
appended below.
Natasha
Re: Terms and Stickers
By Ntasha (1/6/2002)
Emi wrote,
"The thing is, ISNA is talking to bunch of people who are not
anywhere near queer/genderqueer or feminist. On one hand there
are conservative doctors looking for a chance to discredit us,
and on the other there are parents of little intersex babies
who are freaked out and want someone to assure them that their
children are normal. The languege ISNA uses is different from
those I personally use because of this strategic situation we
are in - we can't afford to turn away anybody."
To all,
I find this is somewhat understandable, but I think more
honesty from ISNA would do more to help their image. It has
been obvious to many for a long time, that ISNA has two faces,
one public, and one genuine.
Any organization that is not open to feedback or criticism,
but relies upon censorship of dissenting voices, is too much
like those in the medical community whom ISNA seeks to
enlighten.
For example branding an Intersexual a fraud, and or an enemy,
for voicing such dissension, is exactly what medical
professionals who seek to discredit ISNA have done.
ISNA would be better served, and so would all IS people, if
ISNA were to realize this.
Natasha
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Back to home page.
Transfeminism.org belongs to Emi Koyama and Diana Courvant,
and is not an official publication of the Survivor Project or
any other parties.
Transfeminist Anthology Project
P. O. Box 40570, Portland OR 97240-0570
Webchick (Emi): e...@transfeminism.org
Natasha Thompson
http://www.transfeminism.org/tff-list.cgi
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
confronting oppression, which appears on the right of the
screen there. Please see below.
Once again, here is their web address.
http://www.transfeminism.org/tff-list.cgi#msg
Natasha
Re: Terms and Stickers
By Ntasha (1/7/2002)
Please join us in creating an environment that actively
confronts oppressions by interrupting others and yourself
whenever we act out oppressively (and that includes us).
Ok. Happy to oblige.
Natasha
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check out my bio and trans women's personals list by Ria
(12/12)
Pauline Brent
I would request that since there are more than one person identified as
"Emi" on this group, be specific when mentioning her name.
"Natasha Thompson" <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:NCh_7.10507$zw3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Natasha Thompson
H_Le...@nowhere.edu wrote:
> Not so long ago, the discovery channel ran a show on intersex.
I am guessing that one was the one they made titled, "Is It A
Boy Or A Girl?" I thought it was good.
>
> One of the individuals profiled had had a condition that seemed
> extremely similar to yours, right down to the bits that people here
> have claimed to be impossible.
Yes. : ) The ones who accused me of fraud were looking for a
reason. I just did not fit their stereotype of Intersex people
or their limited knowledge of IS conditions. The controversy
was laid to rest, when a respected member of the community
here came over to my place, reviewed my medical records, and
posted her findings here, that I was telling the truth.
>
> (well, I can't be sure, because it's been a while since I've read
> your self-description, and I was half asleep while watching the
> show)
To be honest I don't remember much about the program, other
than Cheryl Chase was on camera allot. A more recent PBS
documentary about Intersex, was also good in my opinion. It
approached Intersex Genital Mutilation from a different
perspective. It focused on the possibility of assigning one of
us the wrong sex, and went into detail about the David Reimer
case, who was also interviewed. ISNA did not like that
documentary one bit, apparently because it offends their post
modernist non identity (no such thing as gender) bias, and no
Intersex people were interviewed. Cheryl was not on camera,
but I would not be surprised if NOVA asked her to be involved.
ISNA has a blurb on their web site about their dissatisfaction
with the PBS documentary. Here it is in fact.
_________________________________________________________
PBS airs documentary about intersex without any intersex
people in it (November 27, 2001)
On October 30, PBS (Public Broadcasting Service) aired an
one-hour documentary that centers around the controversy over
surgical treatment of intersex children -- without
interviewing a single intersex person (except David Reimer,
who was not born intersex but was treated in a similar
manner). The documentary was part of NOVA, the "most watched
science TV series in the world and the most watched
documentary series on PBS" according to the station, and
focused on the biological basis for gender identity. Because
it is impossible to manipulate the child's gender at will, the
argument goes, children should not be surgically assigned a
sex until we know for sure what their gender is.
However, this line of reasoning completely ignores the fact
that medically unnecessary surgeries on children's genitals
necessarily cause physical and emotional scars as well as the
reduction or loss of sensation, and violate the child's right
to informed consent and physical integrity. It is without
doubt difficult to be raised in a gender that does not conform
to one's gender identity, but that is not the only potential
problem with the concealment-based medical protocol. See the
comparison between the concealment-based (current) model of
treatment and the patient-centered model we advocate.
________________________________________________________
True it focused on a different reason why IGM is a bad idea,
but it is a valid reason also. Since the important thing is to
stop IGM, what is the problem? NOVA being a very good source
of information with a fine reputation, surely was aware that
much attention has been paid to the other reasons why IGM is
malpractice. Bottom line is, ISNA has a strong non identity
(no such thing as gender) post modernist feminist bias, which
the David Reimer case contradicts. Oddly, the supposed "gender
as an arbitrary social construct" was the operating assumption
of John Money, who thoroughly mismanaged the Reimer case, and
many others. Post modernist assumptions about gender are the
foundation of IGM in fact. Politics, yuck. : p
ISNA's denouncement of the PBS NOVA documentary, can be found
on the front page of their official website. It is on the
right, fifth item down from the top. Here is their web address.
>
> In any case, the only major difference I noticed was that the
> individual in question voluntarily chose to be a transman instead.
He was born a non Intersexed male who's penis was destroyed in
a circumcision accident. Although he was surgically altered to
female as an infant, and raised as girl, he was clearly all
boy inside according to all who watched him grow up. After
years of lies and deception, he finally resumed his life as
the male, he believed all along he was meant to be, even
though he did not know that he had been changed into a girl
after the accident. His case and others like it, offers strong
evidence that post modernist, non identity assumptions about
gender identity, are false. I don't think you meant to imply
it was, but I really do not think it was simply a choice David
made. David was treated more than in a "similar" fashion as IS
victims of IGM are, he is in fact a victim of IGM, even though
he was not born Intersexed.
> I don't think the makers of that show were too gullible or easily
> mislead. The view (from a distance) seems to be that your detractors
> are probably wrong. Mostly likely the result of a priori thought,
> trying to put theories ahead of reality.
I agree that the DISCOVERY documentary was well done. Yeah, my
detractors. : ) Well idealism is inherently biased and
unrealistic, and it makes people do bad things. It is what war
and repression is all about, as well as both the Cultural
Gender Paradigm and post modernism. Idealism is the enemy
really, IMO. When society drops idealism and gets realistic,
all people will be better off.
>
> But I'm no expert on intersex, I've just got a low grade case of
> pais and have spent most of my life regretting that they cancelled
> an operation they had scheduled for a few weeks before my 7'th year.
> It would have been a birthday present I've really needed later on.
> Don't mind me, just the ramblings of a walking corpse.
>
I am no expert on IS conditions either. In fact I was given
many contradictory diagnosis by different doctors in my life.
As it turned out, the speculations of doctors voiced to me as
informed, were very misleading and confusing to me. It took me
a long time to sort through all of them, and finally become
clear myself, on the exact nature of my own IS condition.
I am really sorry that you feel like a walking corpse. That
troubles me. I hope that I can help somehow. If you would like
to, you may email me, and I will try to be of any help to you
I can. I have some friends who are outside of the ISNA post
modernist system, in varying ways to varying degrees, who may
be of help to you also. One is a real expert on IS conditions,
and AIS in particular. Please email me if you wish, or we can
talk here. I really do care, I want you to know that. : )
Warmest regards,
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
Transfeminism Forum, and both it and my two previous posts,
were taken down within minutes. At least I was not denounced
as before, but clearly dissent is not tolerated on Emi
Koyama's Forum, which she runs with an iron hand.
Maybe someday.
Natasha
Re: Terms and Stickers
By Anonymous (1/7/2002)
It came to my attention recently, through a disclosure by
someone who met Emi, that she is now aware that I did not make
a false claim when I spoke of my Intersex condition. So I took
a chance and posted here again.
I am pleasantly surprised that my posts are still up. I have
learned that pessimism does not help me, so I will take the
fact that I have not been denounced as a tool of patriarchy
this time, or accused of being a Transsexual colonizer of IS
space again, as a sign that things are improving, even though
no apology is forthcoming. I did not expect one anyway.
I am very glad that things have improved. Now Perhaps
together, we really can accomplish something.
Natasha
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Natasha Thompson
"Pauline Brent" <pauli...@pmbrent.com> wrote:
> I would request that since there are more than one person identified as
> "Emi" on this group, be specific when mentioning her name.
I think it is very obvious which Emi I am referring to, since
I specifically say below, which one and where. In fact I use
her last name as well, in the fist paragraph of my post which
you quoted below.
You seem to be splitting hairs, to me. : )
Natasha
Pauline Brent
always that accurate. If you were using Natasha and another Natasha says
something not represenative of your opinion you would not wish it atributed
to you by malace or accident.
Take care.
Paula
"Natasha Thompson" <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote in message
news:Xmr_7.12043$Vz3.1...@newsread2.prod.itd.earthlink.net...
Natasha Thompson
"Pauline Brent" <pauli...@pmbrent.com> wrote:
> Actually I am not. Emi Britt is a friend. Quoting from letters is not
> always that accurate.
I thought it was clear, since I quoted from the
Transfeminism.org Forum site. Sorry for the confusion.
> If you were using Natasha and another Natasha says
> something not represenative of your opinion you would
> not wish it atributed to you by malace or accident.
That is true. I really thought it was clear I was referring to
Emi Koyama. Please pardon me.
>
> Take care.
You too dear. : )
Natasha Thompson
H_Le...@nowhere.edu wrote:
> Well actually, in the show I saw, or at least in the profile I saw,
> that particular person had been assigned at birth as a probable
> male with micropenis, which was removed so the child could be
> reassigned as female. They made a fundemental mistake, because
> actually the child was a female with clitoromegaly and no vagina/
> birth channel. Their diagnosis apparently was obscured by mosaicism.
Damn, I missed that one. It sure sounds like it could be
Mosaic Turners Syndrome with mixed gonadal dysgenesis. This is
a little close to home, and upsets me quite a bit. In fact
your entire message does, in a good way though, don't worry. I
am so concerned about you now, I could scream. Please *do*
email me. There are plenty of available anon web mail accounts
available though, if you prefer. I understand your concern for
privacy, and I honor it. I am not offended.
God, I know from experience, that many doctors know nothing
about IS conditions, and are uncomfortable with us and
reluctant to help therefore.
My heart is pounding.
>
> She was then raised as a female, but the docs didn't realize two
> things.
> She actually had a uterus, but it wasn't going to start on it's own,
> Because instead of 2 ovaries, she had one non-functional neo-ovary
> and one non-functional neo-teste.
MGD likely. I wont go into it here, but I have reason to
believe that my orchidectomy in 95, resulted in me losing
something I could have sure used. Doctors think they know it
all, and I would never have been the wiser, but they tried to
cover up the pathology report. <simmering>
>
> So they gave her estrogen to provide a femal puberty, she had her
> first period, and the blood had nowhere to go. She ended up at the
> hospital, where the docs gave her an emergency vaginaplasty.
Oh shit! I think I know who that happened too.
>
> Apparently, that person eventually became a transman, and he looked
> like quite a studly dude when they interviewed him.. Oh well, to each
> their own.
If it is the man I think it may be, he is well adjusted and
happy, at least he said he is. I hope so. He seemed to be.
>
> On the other subject, pais was only one working hypothesis my doctor
> came up with to explain the minor anomalies in my phenotype despite
> my having what should be a "normal" testosterone level. It doesn't amt
> to much. For a while, he was extremely curious about me, because every
> 3-6 weeks I bleed from a certain orifice, and the standard conditions
> didn't pan out. But then he just dropped the matter altogether.
I knew of someone with a similar situation. MTS, Noonans (sp?)
Syndrome, I don't know, but I know someone who probably does.
Please ignore the flood of jerks who may now rush in here, and
swear that what you are describing is impossible. : ) There
are many subtle and odd combinations of IS conditions being
investigate right this moment. Too bad we have to rely on the
medical industry for this.
There is a very cool biologist named Milton Diamond who is
very expert in all of this. He may be able to help you. I know
he *will* at least try to. dia...@hawaii.edu
>
> I've stopped going to my doctor. Because he won't do what I want.
> The soc, and the "gender therapists", they're all set up to handle a
> different sort of person than what I am, and I've been told that much.
I know what you mean. I was told years ago at a clinic for TS
people, that it is against medical protocol to treat IS and TS
together, and I had to go somewhere else. At least they gave
me a referral though. I know what you are going through. Hang
in there. : )
> They shut the gate on me because of it.
Been there too, going farther back. It is *so* frustrating.
> A while back, I tried checking with intersex sources. I had the false
> hope that if I could point to some physical anomalies, it might make
> the trip to the OR easier to get. The people I contacted said it
> wouldn't.
No it doesn't. There are no perks for being IS that I am aware
of. It is all cash and carry, yet I know a couple of people
who did get some free surgery, years ago. You may not be out
of luck. I wish I was rich dear, you would be soooo covered.
There may be some way. Hang in there.
> One of them was Cheryl Chase.
: ) Wrong person to ask. Oh yeah.
>
> Back when I was 6 going on 7, they were going to do it to me based on
> 2 (or 3?) visits with a child psychologist, the recommendation of a
> school
> councilor, and the agreement of my parents. At the time, I didn't even
> have
> an opinion for or against. And they cancelled it just as arbitrarily.
You were too young to know what you wanted I think. Some know
very early on, I did, but many don't. Many school councilors,
relatives and a shrink or two, advised my parents that they
had made an error by having me changed to male at three, but
my parents were the problem there. Any shrink or MD who told
them that were fired immediately. I do understand dear.
>
> But when the time came that I've actually wanted it, they make it into
> an
> ordeal like climbing Mt Everest.
Yep. Transsexuals face the same thing, and I sympathize
entirely. Having an IS condition often works against those of
us who to change too. We are considered a greater risk by many
care providers.
> And I am personally tortured by my close encounter with happiness.
I know. I felt that way for many years. There is hope however.
There really is.
>
> If they had done it back then, I could have had a normal life,
> but now- No, I will never have any life at all. Even if Dr Laub
> gave me a pro bono tommorow (fat chance), it's now too late to
> ever be normal or happy.
>
I know those feelings so well. I do not want to in any dismiss
your feelings. I am no counselor. You need to know that normal
and happiness do not equate though. Really they are
independent of each other. That may seem hard to believe now,
but it is true sweety. I know it is hard, but try not to be
regretful, for doing that will make it harder to improve your
life, and you can, you really can. I really want to help dear,
and I will somehow, if you let me.
Do not despair so sister. Things are better than they appear
right now. You are understandable depressed, right now, but we
will work on all of this together, if you will. I was
situationally severely depressed for 40 years. I felt the same
way. I could not function worth a damn. I was in a coma three
times because of serious, not a cry for help, suicide
attempts. How I survived them is unexplainable, and beyond the
probable. My life improved, and so can yours. My friends and
have some experience in stuff like this, so do not give up.
YOU ARE NOT ALONE, believe me.
>
> (before you ask, out of 4 billion people on earth, there are less than
> 50 women my size, and even if I hung out exclusively with amazonian
> giantesses,I'd still outweigh them.
Weight can change, especially if your hormones and other
features of your metabolism are optimized. It can be done. As
well there are so called "normal" non IS women out there, as
big as you are right now. I have known some. Remember Janet
Reno, the Attorney General for the Clinton admin.? She is over
6' 4" and not delicate, but she is a very appealing lesbian I
think. Many other Lesbians think so too I hear. There are lots
of str8 men who jut love tall and big women too. I am always
getting hit on by really tall men. The gals under 5 10 are
often afraid of them, and many of them want a woman closer to
their 6' 8" or more. I am just slightly under 6 foot, and I
get by. I know more than one TS woman, way taller than me, who
look GREAT, and when they were around, nobody noticed me, they
all went for them like moths to a flame, yes they passed.
<bitches> : )
>
> In addition, many items of female attire literally
> don't exist to fit me, not from women's specialty catalogs,
> or anywhere else. Even with the "gender professionals",
> after they've actually seen me, it stretched their minds
> too much to think I could ever believably present as female.
I get a little preachy below, but it is all true, pep talk or
not.
Honey I have seen some before pictures that you would *not*
believe, and I have watched a few transition whom I thought
had ZERO chance of ever being believable, turn out *very* well.
It is not about passing anyway. Honest to GOD. I know some
natal females who don't, and they are fine with it. Hell _I_
don't around those who think women don't ever get 6 feet tall,
and they *are* out there. As well I have known some TS women
who are a bit readable, yet very happy. It depends, on venue,
and personae.
I have also known a few beauties, whom NO ONE would believe
were anything *but* born women, who were not happy at all. It
is inside, not outside. It is about what you *do* have, not
what you don't have.
>
> So they gatekeep me .)
In the SF Bay are they don't go by looks so much, from what I
have seen. You must be in a conservative area.
>
> Yes, I know it would be nice to have the social role too, and
> a life. Don't they think I know that? They won't even let me
> have the physical changes as a consolation prize.
Are you in Canada or the deep south USA or something?
>
> It's not like I've ever had anything vaguely resembling a
> "normal" male life, and I'm not about to start.
Youcan try a different gate, somewhere else. Wherever you are,
does not sound so good. There is an answer. : )
>
> Damn the world. I may not actually feel like a walking corpse
> all the time, but I spend a lot of time wishing I'd die
> peacefully in my sleep.
My life was like that for most of it.
>
> I'll see about e-mailing you, if you still want to help.
Well, Hmmmm, maybe, I duuno. : ) Sure I do, you know that.
> Are there any anonymous e-mail services still around?
Yep plenty. I think about any Netscape or Earthlink site has
free anon web mailboxes.
I really look forward to hearing from you!
Natasha
Gwendolyn Ann Smith
Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Damn, I missed that one.
I'll check my tapes, and see if I have that one. ;-)
Cheers,
Gwen Smith
. .
/\\//\ Gwendolyn Ann Smith * Member, SF TG CRI Task Force
> () < Board Member, GEA * Columnist, Bay Area Reporter
\/()\/ Webmistress, Gender.org * Comm. Host, Trans Gazebo
"I want this to be a harmony of voices" - Lauren D. Wilson
Emi Melissa Briet
> Emi Britt is a friend.
*hughugs to Pauline* =) Thanks...a couple years ago there *was*
confusion between me and Emi Koyama, because at the time her website
only identified her by first name. I wrote her at that time and
explained the confusion that was wrought *heh*
One other thing, though....it's 'Briet' *heh*
--Emi-chan
Pauline Brent
"Emi Melissa Briet" <e...@emiofbrie.com> wrote in message
news:ad5bb718.02010...@posting.google.com...
I changed it. (unintentionally) but I and I alone stand for the wrong
spelling.
{{{{{HUGS}}}}}}}}
back
Paula
Natasha Thompson
Gwendolyn Ann Smith <gw...@gwensmith.comatose> wrote:
> In article <n0w_7.13116$zw3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Damn, I missed that one.
>
> I'll check my tapes, and see if I have that one. ;-)
Hi there Gwen. <blushing> <a-hem> I guess you saw my reaction
to Amy's post about missing posts. Someone else sent me an
email about the same sort of thing, right after I got mad at
you, but I didn't buy it then.
I am so sorry Gwen. I had you wrong. I read what Amy said and
then your emails from before, and it has come to my attention
that I am a complete, 100%, *total* lurching ninny. Forgive
me? I *am* very sorry.
Hugs?
Natasha
CEO TWITS Inc.
Natasha Thompson
"Pauline Brent" <pauli...@pmbrent.com> wrote:
Sorry Paula, and of course to Emi especially, for any
confusion I may have caused. I sure as hell would not
want to be confused with Koyama either.
Very sorry. <sheepish grin>
Natasha
Gwendolyn Ann Smith
Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
> Hi there Gwen. <blushing> <a-hem> I guess you saw my reaction
> to Amy's post about missing posts. Someone else sent me an
> email about the same sort of thing, right after I got mad at
> you, but I didn't buy it then.
::nod:: I've had more than a few problems with the attbi newsgroups
server. Between dropped posts and the occassional inability to post
anything myself, it can be frustrating. I've been debating getting a
supernews account or something, though I don't really use the groups
enough to feel like paying the extra cash.
> I am so sorry Gwen. I had you wrong. I read what Amy said and
> then your emails from before, and it has come to my attention
> that I am a complete, 100%, *total* lurching ninny. Forgive
> me? I *am* very sorry.
You are no ninny. Of that I'm sure.
Meanwhile, Melinda and I did talk about having a local gathering some
time, and Jerry and I had talked of the same. Maybe when this weather
stabilizes, we can do something?
> Hugs?
Of course!
Natasha Thompson
Gwendolyn Ann Smith <gw...@gwensmith.comatose> wrote:
> In article <k6I_7.14185$zw3.1...@newsread1.prod.itd.earthlink.net>,
> Natasha Thompson <natasha...@earthlink.net> wrote:
>
> > Hi there Gwen. <blushing> <a-hem> I guess you saw my reaction
> > to Amy's post about missing posts. Someone else sent me an
> > email about the same sort of thing, right after I got mad at
> > you, but I didn't buy it then.
>
> ::nod:: I've had more than a few problems with the attbi newsgroups
> server. Between dropped posts and the occassional inability to post
> anything myself, it can be frustrating. I've been debating getting a
> supernews account or something, though I don't really use the groups
> enough to feel like paying the extra cash.
Yep. Google got to be so slow I finally downloaded another
reader. MT-newswatcher 3. This one actually works and has an
interface, control panels and all, that look suspiciously like
Eudora's do. It is under 2M in size too. That other one I had
was no good. I guess newsgroups are low priority for ISP
servers.
>
> > I am so sorry Gwen. I had you wrong. I read what Amy said and
> > then your emails from before, and it has come to my attention
> > that I am a complete, 100%, *total* lurching ninny. Forgive
> > me? I *am* very sorry.
>
> You are no ninny. Of that I'm sure.
Thank you Gwen, you are very kind. : )
>
> Meanwhile, Melinda and I did talk about having a local gathering some
> time, and Jerry and I had talked of the same. Maybe when this weather
> stabilizes, we can do something?
That would be great. Please count Dy and me in. I am looking
forward to it.
>
> > Hugs?
>
> Of course!
: ) <wild hampster dancing here>
Long warm hug,
Natasha
PS- I really would like to see that tape if you got it.
I better get some Kleenex.
Pauline Brent
dont worry about it.
Your ok, I said so.
Paula :)
Natasha Thompson
"Pauline Brent" <pauli...@pmbrent.com> wrote:
Ok, thanks. : )
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
"Julie" <no...@nowhere.com> wrote:
> X-No-Archive: YES
>
> <H_Le...@nowhere.edu> wrote in message
> news:WGwnnjwLCD4q-pn2-dB2o3Z0wh8dw@localhost...
> > Not so long ago, the discovery channel ran a show on intersex.
> >
> > One of the individuals profiled had had a condition that seemed
> > extremely similar to yours, right down to the bits that people here
> > have claimed to be impossible.
>
> The bits that her detractors claimed were impossible =are=
> impossible. The final conclusion by myself and a few others
> wasn't that she really =did= have all of those impossible body
> parts, but rather than she was greatly mistaken about her own
> medical history. Given the history she reports of medical
> mismanagement of her own case, I'm not the least bit surprised
> that she's as confused as can be.
>
> -- Julie.
I think I made it very clear that I *was* unclear about my
medical history, *because* of all the speculations voiced by
doctors to me, which they proffered as informed. I am not the
first, nor unfortunately will I be the last Intersexual, to be
confused by idiot doctors! That is part of the territory, what
most of have to face, and Julie EXPLOITS that, for her egotism.
The real reason you accused me of fraud Julie, is because as
in like manner here, you pounce on every little word. Like
maybe she meant progesterone *and* estrogen, or perhaps the
Intersex in question, produced her own progesterone *in
response* to exogenous estrogen taken. THAT DOES HAPPEN.
You make it clear here as well, that you are *looking* for
anything you can find to use AGAINST others, as USUAL. That is
your schtick, it is what you do.
Fact is that the so called IS "experts" you talked to, like
Kaira, told you to FUCK OFF on another usenet group, because
you are a sick puppy. Always trying to make up for your own
deep sense of self loathing, *at others expense*. Want to see
Kaira's posts telling you what you are?
Julie stuck her big nose in there to, and was driven out.
She's a sick, sadistic Netkook from hell. The opinions of her
friends mean SQUAT to me. The fact that Gwen Smith looked
through my medical records carefully, and verified that I was
telling the truth did not faze Julie. Facts never do.
Hell with her I say. Psycho asshole.
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
Ok. Here we see how well Julie gets along with other
Intersexuals, and women in general. We also get a hint about
Julie's use of pseudonyms, but we all know that already.
Julie you can just stay the hell out, until you get a clue how
to act like a human being.
Kiira is a well known Intersexual, who sure got Julies number
right. I have never met Kiira, and some of her views are
different than mine, but we have something in common besides
having been born Intersexed, our "love" of Julie Haugh.
Natasha
Subject: Re: The Emporer's New Gender
Newsgroups: soc.women.lesbian-and-bi
References: <1.&q&ry2*g...@panix.com> <1.??+ry2j$9...@panix.com>
<1.qh}ry2...@panix.com> <1.bs?ry2i#3...@panix.com>
<1.w$1sy...@panix.com> <1.wr2...@panix.com>
<1.n-3...@panix.com> <1.$15sy...@panix.com>
Organization: Adequate Paradigms "R" Us
Distribution:
Julie Haugh (jfh[censored to protect the guilty by-nt.].com)
wrote:
+------
| Hmmm. Actually I think of USENET as a place to exchange
| ideas, socialize, learn about others and relax. Being
| harassed by Johannah and a few others doesn't seem to fit
| that description very well.Sounds to me like changing
| usernames and accounts might not be all that bad of an idea
| if I want to use USENET as a place to exchange ideas,
| socialize, learn | about others, and relax.
+------
Ok... so you feel that the way out of the mess you have made
here by being obnoxious and deceptive is... a new and better
deception?
[ Kiira has an interlude with her conscience here ]
Devil on left shoulder: "Go ahead Kiira... write that really
smartass remark!"
Angel on right shoulder: "Don't do it Kiira... it's just mean."
Devil: "Aw do it... she deserves it! You know you want to!"
Angel: "It serves no useful purpose in this discussion Kiira."
<sigh> Ok. :-)
But anyway I am *so* curious about this plan to deploy
meta-Julie. Will meta-Julie make fun of flannel wearing dykes,
support hetero-normative grooming standards and pick on
trannies? Or will meta-Julie just post about sewing and offer
advice about problematic periods? Will meta-Julie be friendly
with Johannah? :-) It all seems a bit limiting somehow not to
mention a bit... nuts? I mean... you won't really be "you" if
you are pretending to be someone else as meta-Julie right? But
then... that seems to have been your strategy here for a while
- whilst gleefully tromping the crap out of sundry and various
unfortunates who happened to arouse your ire in the trans
"support"groups.
+------
| But I =would= be happy to prove you wrong. I have about
| half a dozen e-mail accounts right now. I'm sure I could
| make a few more with names that don't involve my initials
| or any portion of my name.
+------
=So= you'll call =yourself= "Cynthia" and post "Me too" every
=now= and then? Then after a =while= "the Real Julie" will
come =back= and shout "Fooled ya into thinking I was really a
woman!"? =What= a =strange= =world= you =MUST= =live= in!
+------
| Now, there was =one= time when I went camping where one of
| the women there kept referring to me as "he". Since I'm
| into nude sunbathing(wasn't the only one -- there was
| another woman about 30 feet or so from me), so I set up a
| towel, laid down, and stripped. She hasn't called me "he"
| since.
+------
Well there you have it... you'll just have to walk around
naked for the rest of your life and your problems will be
over.
Kiira
Glenda
>
>
> Meanwhile, Melinda and I did talk about having a local gathering some
> time, and Jerry and I had talked of the same. Maybe when this weather
> stabilizes, we can do something?
>
> > Hugs?
>
> Of course!
>
> Cheers,
> Gwen Smith
Hi Gwen,
Same Melinda that I know from Transbay? Looking forward to seeing you
all when I'm back from Portland. Wondering if I've met Natasha yet?
long life, happy gatherings
cheers,
Spirit by Glenda
Gotta work on something, I've nearly perfected the body!
http://communities.msn.com/BodybyGlenda/bodybyglenda.msnw
Natasha Thompson
bli...@hotmail.com (Glenda) wrote:
> Gwendolyn Ann Smith <gw...@gwensmith.comatose> wrote in message
> news:<080120021226289629%gw...@gwensmith.comatose>...
> >
>
> >
> > Meanwhile, Melinda and I did talk about having a local gathering some
> > time, and Jerry and I had talked of the same. Maybe when this weather
> > stabilizes, we can do something?
> >
> > > Hugs?
> >
> > Of course!
> >
> > Cheers,
> > Gwen Smith
>
> Hi Gwen,
> Same Melinda that I know from Transbay? Looking forward to seeing you
> all when I'm back from Portland. Wondering if I've met Natasha yet?
> long life, happy gatherings
> cheers,
I don't think we have yet Glenda. It would be nice though.
: )
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
I have been reading the words of Michel Reiter. I like him
much better than Chase. Michel seems to have stepped outside
of the binary and understands that dimorphism is an enforced
cultural oppression, without as ISNA does, jumping into queer
theory and proffering a new codification. A new codification
which amounts to a modified binary, because it is really still
dualism, a system of those who are, and are not, the is, and
the is not.
I like the fact that Michel deconstructs the term Intersex,
and shows that it is not an identity, and has not mixed up
in mind a way of establishing a so called "new" gender
system, which would of course also be oppressive.
I have been trying to say the same thing, but people catch on
words and jump to conclusions, never hearing what I really
mean.
For example no one knows, that I tried to have my genitals put
back they way they were before I was mutilated. No surgeon
would do that. What the doctors made for me was to be _like_
a male. I hated it, and it did not work, I could have no sex
really. That is why I had surgery to make it better. What I
have now is closer to how I was born, and I like it much
better. I would have much preferred to have genitals like I
had when I was born, but that was not possible, no one would
do it.
I too want the dimorphic paradigm to be dropped by world
society. My problem with ISNA and also Transfemism.org, is
the same. They both have made another rigid system, and count
those who are what they are, within the not really existing
system of sex and gender, as wrong or bad, if they happen to
be like a male or female. They assume they are the enemy,
that sex changers are trying to make dimorphism, but that is
not always true. The biggest problem with ISNA is that they
make the "new" Intersex identity, and establish a modified
binary of a new ternary. But the truth is there is NO system,
it is not even ternary, but it is bigger even than that. In
fact it is not with a number or identity at all.
What I have noticed is that human beings do not fit into
categories at all! Any system of categories, is just the same
old tyranny of conformism, to idealized objectifications.
People are not objects, and nothing is really, objects are
the projections of dualistic minds, superimposed on what
really is, which is reality beyond dualistic, binary,
dimorphic, quantified objectivism.
There is no existing system which includes everyone, so we
need to drop systems of categorization of people entirely.
This is a good idea I like allot. ISNA's "new" system is
just the same old thing in different clothes.
I really like what Michel says here below.
"To press the above problems to one point I want to start a
campaign 'we welcome the third millenium with a third gender'
in 2002 worldwide, were *everyone* who wants to, tries to get
a third sex in the passport - to make clear the stupidity
within the whole gender system. Such simple things will be
understand by the people. It's like in Denmark, were everyone,
when the Nazis came in, puts on the yellow star. Nazis didn't
decide to kill whole Denmark and had to move away."
I hope this makes it clear the way I really think about
things. What many people presume that I think, is not
even true at all.
Natasha
Natasha Thompson
Natasha Thompson
Natasha Thompson
and what I am going to say next. It is really difficult to
discus nearly anything here, without it devolving into an
argument anyway. Few have a clue how to listen, refuse to ask
what others mean by this or that, presume to know instead, and
if they do say anything in response, too often it is from a
defensive standpoint of assumptions made, about what the hell
others are trying to say.
It is so hard to speak of anything potentially controversial
on the group. I feel I am rarely heard, because I rarely get a
chance to finish explaining what I mean to say.
I get deluged with outraged interpretations, leading questions
based on what people here assume I "really" mean, or where
they think I am going, *before* I can finish laying the
groundwork. Or people here go to the other extreme of
ignoring me completely, cause, well, they all *know* what I
*really* think, and or what I am going to say.
It is a tough audience, a touchy crowd. Most here seem to be
on defense all the time. Very frustrating.
Natasha