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EDGAR CAYCE and psoriasis

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LCherensky

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Feb 16, 2002, 9:50:19 PM2/16/02
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Has anyone tried the EDGAR CAYCE products and/ or diet for their P? I just used
the shampoo, and I am curious.

Randall

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Feb 17, 2002, 10:22:15 PM2/17/02
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lcher...@aol.com (LCherensky) wrote in message news:<20020216215019...@mb-fv.aol.com>...

> Has anyone tried the EDGAR CAYCE products and/ or diet for their P? I just used
> the shampoo, and I am curious.

Hi,

I am wondering if they sell lithium. I posted an
article on it, from www.vip.com, a week back.
I did notice it was cheap. Since i've taken so much
zinc, i figured a little lithium may be in order.
And if i flare up a little it serves me just fine.

BTW how did the shampoo work? Does it have
lithium in it? Or zinc or pyrithione zinc? 1%?
Does it smell good?

Oh i deja'vued the edgar cayce for you:

http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=Edgar+Cayce%


The first one is a thread forty posts long. DaveW may
recall it. Him and waltercats got semantical.
I got so wrapped up in this thread i didn't read the
one posted by the ghost of edgar himself.
I wonder if he went into Plato's cave when
he did the Madame Blavatsky medium well done trip.
Hey walter go into the light. I wonder if he saw
that one coming? ah the ultimate..

whoops gotta go.

randall... i'm channeling Mewton.. he says damn, to templar.

Randall

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Feb 18, 2002, 10:36:57 AM2/18/02
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ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote in message news:<df7e2c67.02021...@posting.google.com>...

> lcher...@aol.com (LCherensky) wrote in message news:<20020216215019...@mb-fv.aol.com>...
> > Has anyone tried the EDGAR CAYCE products and/ or diet for their P? I just used
> > the shampoo, and I am curious.
>
> Hi,
>
> I am wondering if they sell lithium. I posted an
> article on it, from www.vip.com, a week back.
> I did notice it was cheap. Since i've taken so much
> zinc, i figured a little lithium may be in order.
> And if i flare up a little it serves me just fine.
>
> BTW how did the shampoo work? Does it have
> lithium in it? Or zinc or pyrithione zinc? 1%?
> Does it smell good?
>
> Oh i deja'vued the edgar cayce for you:
>
> http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&q=Edgar+Cayce%

try that one again:

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Edgar+Cayce%27s+psoriasis+treatment&hl=en&selm=8j3mds%24ljc%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=4

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=Edgar+Cayce%27s+psoriasis+treatment&hl=en&selm=8qqgt1%2420v%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=1

How comes it cuts off at the %? (help?)
Ah nuts.. go to www.deja.com use keywords:Edgar Cayce's psoriasis
treatment


>
>
> The first one is a thread forty posts long. DaveW may
> recall it. Him and waltercats got semantical.
> I got so wrapped up in this thread i didn't read the
> one posted by the ghost of edgar himself.
> I wonder if he went into Plato's cave when
> he did the Madame Blavatsky medium well done trip.

This next sentence should read "Hey Edgar go into..."

I really should Poof read this things.

> Hey walter go into the light. I wonder if he saw
> that one coming? ah the ultimate..
>
> whoops gotta go.
>
> randall... i'm channeling Mewton.. he says damn, to templar.

I wonder if Newton got tired of trying to transmute lead/sulphur/
???? into GOLD? And thats why real science stuff came about?
Was he just frustrated from that or his monk like morals?
Don't we do the same? Eat some zinc or ??? and try to
turn flakes into real skin?

randall.. just wondering and how come that pasty cuts off?

LCherensky

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Feb 18, 2002, 3:30:51 PM2/18/02
to
No,
I don't think they sell Litium. Everything is natural from him. The shampoo has
salicylic acid, which is nothing new, but also has other oils and herbs. I only
used it once, and it seems to have clamed my scalp. Less redness and itching,
but it is too soon to tell. IT has little or no smell, and is not drying, whch
is nice.

PsorSpot

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Feb 19, 2002, 4:28:14 AM2/19/02
to
>ranh...@aol.com (Randall) quoted himself again, saying:
>> Hi,
>> I am wondering if they sell lithium. I posted an
>> article on it, from www.vip.com, a week back.
>> I did notice it was cheap. Since i've taken so much
>> zinc, i figured a little lithium may be in order.
>> And if i flare up a little it serves me just fine.

Yes, it would serve you right for suggesting that others might give it a try,
too.

In case any newbies are taking our reigning pseudoscientist seriously, I
suggest doing your own Medline search on keywords psoriasis and lithium. You'll
find that lithium not only exacerbates psoriasis, it is notorious for creating
psoriasis "de novo" - new cases of the disease. Drinking (all natural) spring
water from the wrong place will do it.
Dig deep enough and you will find that the mechanism has been discovered, and
is related to the effect that cyclosporine and tacroliumus use to clear the
lesions.

> How comes it cuts off at the %? (help?)

Well, you asked for it. It's because you're posting URLs that are too long.
Stil, that's better than diluting the newsgroup with piles of meaningless
abstracts, copyright violations, and untrimmed quotes of entire threads (with
your meanderings threaded among the quotes).

>Ah nuts.. go to www.deja.com use keywords:Edgar Cayce's psoriasis treatment.

Better yet, find a more reliabe source of psoriasis advice than a mystical
quack who
only spoke in generalities, much less anyone pushing products based on his
claims.

> I really should Poof read this things.

Please. Poof!

PsorSpot

Randall

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Feb 19, 2002, 12:11:43 PM2/19/02
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psor...@aol.com (PsorSpot) wrote in message news:<20020219042814...@mb-dh.aol.com>...

> >ranh...@aol.com (Randall) quoted himself again, saying:
> >> Hi,
> >> I am wondering if they sell lithium. I posted an
> >> article on it, from www.vip.com, a week back.
> >> I did notice it was cheap. Since i've taken so much
> >> zinc, i figured a little lithium may be in order.
> >> And if i flare up a little it serves me just fine.


Pseudo-duh-ly yours agrees it causes flares. Yet why does it
cause a flare. Can psorspot please read the article at

www.vrp.com (sorry vip was wrong) its in the February issue.
The original post was on Feb/5 02 Named Lithium for P?

Can psorspot please help interpret why these vrp folks
are selling this inexpensive mineral? OH and have any p
folks here used the Cayce lithium for p pills?
DaveW went around with the cayce posts and yet
i just want to hear from actual people who tried it
and helped/flared whatever.


>
> Yes, it would serve you right for suggesting that others might give it a try,
> too.

ANY NEWBIES WITH P! Please do not try lithium. Unless your doctor
prescribes it for some medical condition. Darn covering ones p
behind isn't easy. I am sorry if anyone ran out and tried it and
flared up. (i wish it was that easy to get someone to go the whole whey)


>
> In case any newbies are taking our reigning pseudoscientist seriously,

So your not pseudo?

I
> suggest doing your own Medline search on keywords psoriasis and lithium. You'll
> find that lithium not only exacerbates psoriasis, it is notorious for creating
> psoriasis "de novo" - new cases of the disease. Drinking (all natural) spring
> water from the wrong place will do it.
> Dig deep enough and you will find that the mechanism has been discovered, and
> is related to the effect that cyclosporine and tacroliumus use to clear the
> lesions.
>
> > How comes it cuts off at the %? (help?)
>
> Well, you asked for it. It's because you're posting URLs that are too long.
> Stil, that's better than diluting the newsgroup with piles of meaningless
> abstracts, copyright violations, and untrimmed quotes of entire threads (with
> your meanderings threaded among the quotes).

Well, your help is most appreciated then.


>
> >Ah nuts.. go to www.deja.com use keywords:Edgar Cayce's psoriasis treatment.
>
> Better yet, find a more reliabe source of psoriasis advice than a mystical
> quack who


Why are you learned types so mean? Can't you just hang around and give
excellent advice for p's that would gain from it?

> only spoke in generalities, much less anyone pushing products based on his
> claims.

What, you say you read em (way to long) yet the facts are wrong?
Maybe you didn't read the right ones. Shall i go get them?


>
> > I really should Poof read this things.

Hey, i read your newskin post from 97 on that corny kobener
post of yours. I found it funny.
>
> Please. Poof!

My, you are a little psorspot. I will inversely decrease my
posts based on the quality and quanity of your not pseudo
posts to the png. Are you Game? Or shall we leave it
up to the pgn democracy?
>
> PsorSpot

Cute, i like it. Why don't you hang around. Five posts in
five years. You non pesudo's don't say much.

Before you go ballistic over my p pandaemonium please
fill us in on your level of P. Severity duration etc.

I hope your not to tuff i may need prozac. Whoops, not
a recommmendation for P. Maybe living with it.

RANDALL

Andrewfus

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Feb 20, 2002, 4:14:40 PM2/20/02
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On 19 Feb 2002 09:11:43 -0800, Ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:

isnt edgar cayce the guy that used to sleep in pyramids?

LCherensky

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Feb 21, 2002, 12:38:52 AM2/21/02
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No,
But he did go into trances to find cures for many diseases.

DaveW

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Feb 21, 2002, 1:04:55 AM2/21/02
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LCherensky wrote:
>But he did go into trances to find cures for many diseases.

See also http://www.skepdic.com/cayce.html

- Dave W.
http://members.aol.com/psorsite/

Randall

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Feb 21, 2002, 12:17:38 PM2/21/02
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stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020221010455...@mb-mt.aol.com>...

Hi,

Good one. May feeling about cayce is: He perfected his
con game. He is now that guy on FOX that talks to your
dead relatives or friends for a nice fee.
Just his CAR MA. What would randi say? Your karma ran
over my dogma? Or your dogma ran over my karma? Or was that
shermer? (whatever)

Look, i only want to find out how this
quackish sleeping whatever came up with the
very counterintuitive lithium for P and how much
is in his little lithium pill. Is it a homepathetic
dosage? Like almost less then drinking water?
Mine (H2O) comes from the Colorado and i'm starting to
wonder about lithium. I do get Northern California
stuff during different times of the year, also.

I am not so depressed that i can get a Rx.
Wiht my history of P it's a small wonder i'm not.
Or is that bi-polar or manic? I suppose sorespot
could make a fairly good argument for one or both.
I plead obsessive complusive p disorder. The need
to diminish flakery with randallswhey.

Ok. Lets take a breath. I know this is the
Season of the Flare. For P's NO less.

I will try to put this back in perspective.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

http://www.vrp.com/scripts/vrpNewsLetters.asp?rnd=1014219690#lithium

This is the article i read in Vrp.

Here is a snippet.

******************************

Lithium in the Diet There is growing evidence that lithium may be an
essential mineral in the human diet. Animals on low-lithium diets have
shown reproductive problems, shorter life spans, poor lipid
metabolism, and behavioral abnormalities. (7-9) In epidemiological
studies of humans, low levels of lithium in drinking water have been
correlated with a higher incidence of mental hospital admissions, (10)
violent crime, suicide, drug addiction, (11) and heart disease. (11)
Lithium levels in the scalp hair of violent criminals and heart
disease patients have been found to be lower than those in healthy
volunteers. (13)
The amount of lithium in a normal diet varies considerably. Table 2
shows dietary intakes of lithium reported in the literature. These
values should be considered approximate, since different researchers
give different answers. Some lithium is present in essentially all
foods, with the highest concentrations reported in eggs and milk. (14)
Water can also be a substantial source. The lithium content of
drinking water in the United States ranges from 0.00001 to 0.170
mg/liter, with an average of 0.002 mg/liter. (15,16) El Paso, Texas,
has one of the highest concentrations, and is the location most noted
as a high-lithium, low-mental illness site. (10,11) One region of
Northern Chile has 5 mg/liter lithium in the water, which has been
consumed for years without adverse effects reported — and even water
with 6 to 12 mg/liter lithium from an industrial outflow has not been
shown to cause any obvious problems. (23)
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

here is what i posted on feb./5/02

Hi,This lithium thing has bugged me for a long while.Is it good or
bad? Is there a homeostatic amount of lithium that is to be looked
at?So, i found this on the www.vrp.com site in their bulletinfor
Feb/2002. Quite timely i'd say.I try to read on most known, to me at
least, triggers of P.Sometimes i ferret out a connection that leads to
paydirt.All for the slimest of hopes that it will really really
help.NOt the "Oh it seemed like it was doing something, thennothing"
of most causal inquiries.So, if you could help out by reading and
thinking aboutlithium i'd be p-eternally gratefull. Hopefully not
GratinglyDead gratefully from
CVD.http://www.vrp.com/scripts/vrpNewsLetters.asp?rnd=1012948638#lithiumI
think it may load the whole newsletter. If so there are otherhelpfull
stories of a healthy nature.randall... causations effects Brains self
images neural p pathwheys?

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

So, enter psorsport. He goes off on me as to the newbie effect.

I guess that means, a newbie will read an oldbie and say,
where is the bridge i'm jumping off.

And of course the de novo effects of lithium are real.
Like, someone, who has the P DNA is reading the P ng for
fun and sees my post and takes lithium out of the
blue sky and gets or sets off a lifetime of P.
(I'm opening myself up to a possible lawsuit)

It would be karmic if edgar cayce came back
as an attorney. The sleeping trial lawyer.
Man sued for talking and wondering about lithium,
even though his intentions are altruistic.

But, all i really want to know is does lithium
produce a greater effect then say quinine in
tonic water? What is the litium effects as to P?
It is a mineral, am i chelating it with IP6?

So, i will take the help of the very lurkish psorspot,
i will medline it. And while i'm at it, i will DNA it too.
(The %'s of P's and relatives are on this DNA page)

http://www.nlm.nih.gov/medlineplus/psoriasis.html

http://www.dna.com/diseaseArticle/diseaseArticle.jsp?site=dna&link=Psoriasis.htm

So there. And since psorsport, er spot, doesn't
want to play anymore i will not tell you or
him why i really need to know. Go guess.
I don't want NO psor newbie on my conscience.

I will go off into my own ivory tower and pridefully
chide all who attempt to control their P flares.

And seeing as the season of the P flare is ripe
and mine are under control, despite the fact that
i'm eating all the offenders in copious quantities,
i'll "never tell" which foods (all gras listed BTW)
are doing the beneficial work. (Yeah funny- huh?)

randall... king of the P peusdo's, and very clear during
the SEASON of the P-FLARE. Cept for my CNS/HPA

DaveW

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Feb 22, 2002, 12:31:14 AM2/22/02
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Randall wrote:
> Look, i only want to find out how this
> quackish sleeping whatever came up with the
> very counterintuitive lithium for P...

I hate to appear to be defending Cayce, but I've got no idea how you made this
connection, anyway. I read the VRP thing - no mention of psoriasis at all in
the lithium article. I've also read all 50 of the readings which the Meridian
Institute claims to be about psoriasis, and Cayce never uttered the word
'lithium' in any of them, in any context. See for yourself:

http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias3.html

So, whoever is saying that Cayce suggested lithium for psoriasis appears to
either be lying or misinformed.

LCherensky

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Feb 22, 2002, 6:10:53 AM2/22/02
to
Exact;y,
I never say any reference to him mention it at all, I don't know where it came
from.

Randall

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Feb 22, 2002, 1:07:02 PM2/22/02
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stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020222003114...@mb-cm.aol.com>...

> Randall wrote:
> > Look, i only want to find out how this
> > quackish sleeping whatever came up with the
> > very counterintuitive lithium for P...


>
> I hate to appear to be defending Cayce, but I've got no idea how you made this
> connection, anyway. I read the VRP thing - no mention of psoriasis at all in
> the lithium article.

In the VRP quote i was looking at the "fat metabolism" implication
and the antidepressive effects, not P specifically.

Maybe thats the only association.
For cayce, his current proponents offer:

"It has been said that lithium helps people stay calm and balanced. In
an epidemiological study of two similar towns in Texas, it was
reported that the town where lithium occurred naturally in the
drinking water had lower rates of crime and alcoholism. Water
containing lithium was recommended by Edgar Cayce for purifying the
kidneys. One of our 4 ounce bottles added to the appropriate amount of
water makes a gallon of lithia water.
LTH 4 oz $5.75

(so it helps the kidneys but not P on the skin?)

Iodine in Ointment Base

When you have skin eruptions, try Cayce-recommended Iodex. As this
simple, but powerful, formula comes in contact with skin abrasions,
the iodine is liberated from the ointment to promote healing.

IOX 1 oz $8.25

(but not P?)(from the first site i surfed)

******************************************

> I've also read all 50 of the readings which the Meridian
> Institute claims to be about psoriasis, and Cayce never uttered the word
> 'lithium' in any of them, in any context. See for yourself:
>
> http://www.meridianinstitute.com/psorias3.html

If you read all of those, your a more exacting man then I.
Maybe you should read all of his crap, to make sure. For now
i'll demur that he didn't say it in some other context.


>
> So, whoever is saying that Cayce suggested lithium for psoriasis appears to
> either be lying or misinformed.

I would hope the latter as most BIG hearted helpful types suggest
anything and everything for P, all the time to me. I just usually
say NO thankyou and the idea gets filed in my long term memory cells.
Where i now think the damaged idea comes from.

So what did he advocate lithia water for? Depression, if not
the heartbreak of P? And when the P mark was picking up the
Rx after paying for the reading, how do you know the clerk
didn't toss in a bottle of lithia to ease the nerves. Er,
fix the kidneys?

The next time someone says try the lithia water from
the numerous sites that peddle the nostrums of the
sleeping con artist, i'll say NO thanks. I want
that saffron tea stuff instead. I wonder if its grown
in lithium rich soils? Could lithium be the mineral all
those organic types say is depleted in the soil?

Maybe, i need to check lithium and fat absorption
in the medline. I wonder how it helps fat digestion.

Kent Trussell

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Feb 24, 2002, 5:52:16 AM2/24/02
to
This has nothing to do with the discussion about lithium, I'm not interested
in that. I was attracted by the capital lettered-Cayce neons.

Way last year or the year before, a regular poster made a statement like,
"yeah like I'd listen to some dead prophet or something". This was in
vilification of another poster's tentative entry apropos Cayce and the leaky
gut syndrome. (I can sense Randall deja vuing as we read, so it'll come up
again), and I thought, how offensive is this? How closed-mindedness is this;
what, you like to have this disease? You deserve it. You think the drug
companies and the sceptics care about you? Listen to your own mind. Look
inwardly and maybe you will understand why you have this affliction.
Meanwhile, you will discover you don't have time to criticise and crap on
about stuff you haven't yet had the opportunity to understand.

I'm going back to the Merlot.

Yours intermittently,

Kent Trussell


"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:df7e2c67.02022...@posting.google.com...

DaveW

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Feb 24, 2002, 11:43:11 AM2/24/02
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Kent Trussel wrote:
> Way last year or the year before, a regular poster made a statement like,
> "yeah like I'd listen to some dead prophet or something". This was in
> vilification of another poster's tentative entry apropos Cayce and the leaky
> gut syndrome. (I can sense Randall deja vuing as we read, so it'll come up
> again)...

A Googling on "dead psychic" turns up something in July of last year, but it
really doesn't fit your description very well. Perhaps if you supplied more
details, we'd all get to read the thread in question. I suspect the reality of
the situation is that you're remembering things incorrectly, but I'm sure the
facts don't matter much when you've got so much indignation to share.

> ...and I thought, how offensive is this? How closed-mindedness is this;


> what, you like to have this disease? You deserve it.

And I thought, how offensive is this? Kent, the above is absolutely horrible.
You are the scum of the Earth for saying that someone deserves to have
psoriasis just for stating an opinion that you don't agree with. Your
holier-than-thou attitude is farcical in light of the hatred and fear you've
spewed in this post. And while I think that silence would be the best thing
that you could possibly bring to this newsgroup, I'd never stoop so low as to
wish your disease would get worse, or any other harm befall you.

> You think the drug companies and the sceptics care about you?

You think Cayce cares about anyone now that he's been dead for 57 years?

> Listen to your own mind. Look inwardly and maybe you will
> understand why you have this affliction.

Genetics, probably. That was easy.

> Meanwhile, you will discover you don't have time to criticise and
> crap on about stuff you haven't yet had the opportunity to understand.

Very true. Perhaps you should follow your own advice, hypocrite.

Randall

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Feb 24, 2002, 11:55:25 AM2/24/02
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"Kent Trussell" <job...@powerup.com.au> wrote in message news:<4F3e8.703$936....@ozemail.com.au>...

> This has nothing to do with the discussion about lithium, I'm not interested
> in that. I was attracted by the capital lettered-Cayce neons.

I'd love to take you to LAS VEGAS, for the music not the gambling.
Oh yes, i almost forgot the LIGHTS.


>
> Way last year or the year before, a regular poster made a statement like,
> "yeah like I'd listen to some dead prophet or something". This was in
> vilification of another poster's tentative entry apropos Cayce and the leaky
> gut syndrome.

What if the intuitive Cayce only meant a thinning of the good mucosal
flora? Maybe we can get daveW to prooof read it? I'm starting to
wonder.

> (I can sense Randall deja vuing as we read, so it'll come up
> again), and I thought, how offensive is this? How closed-mindedness is this;
> what, you like to have this disease? You deserve it.

Ah, you forgot the ? on that last sentence, didn't you? Or are you
being a ontological Karmic P being for arguments sake?

> You think the drug
> companies and the sceptics care about you?

????? YES. Its the $$$$$$$$ !!!!!

> Listen to your own mind. Look
> inwardly and maybe you will understand why you have this affliction.

I got it. It's the matrix. right? RIGHT? ?????

> Meanwhile, you will discover you don't have time to criticise and crap on
> about stuff you haven't yet had the opportunity to understand.
>
> I'm going back to the Merlot.

What? No bottle of bread? Well, pass that bottle or at least
Lind a man a drink, satisfy his thirst. Teach a man to grow
a grape feed his soul forever. Ya, think?
>
> Yours intermittently,

When your feisty your well, umm almost fun. How many sips
does it take to flare your Wit and not your hide?

OH, i see its Trussell, ryhmes with hustle?
BTW, i like my emu medium rare. Now for the chardonnay.
>
> Kent Trussell

randall... i hope that emu isn't to tuff.

Maddie

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Feb 24, 2002, 1:45:14 PM2/24/02
to
Just reopened an old paperback "Venture Inward" by Hugh Lynn Cayce published
in 1964. (I too clutched at every straw when I first got psoriasis).
Cayce is very forward thinking in his dietary advice, advocating raw
vegetables, and local grown food for example. Some of his advice is being
verified by research.
"It was pointed out that as physical exercise or manual activity decreased,
the amounts of alkaline-reacting foods should be increased. Foods
combineing fats and sugars and starches were labeled acid producing. One
reading summarizes this point of view as follows:

Have 80 per cent alkaline-producing to 20 per cent acid-producing foods in
the diet."
p165

Just found on the Web.

Low Fat, High Sugar Diets Prompt Production of Saturated Fats
http://www.rockefeller.edu/pubinfo/fat.nr.html

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DaveW

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Feb 24, 2002, 5:30:47 PM2/24/02
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Randall wrote:
>In the VRP quote i was looking at the "fat metabolism" implication
>and the antidepressive effects, not P specifically.
>
>Maybe thats the only association.

Perhaps. Pretty tenuous.

>For cayce, his current proponents offer:

>. . .


>(so it helps the kidneys but not P on the skin?)

Sounds about right to me.

>Iodine in Ointment Base
>. . .


>(but not P?)(from the first site i surfed)

The closest Cayce comes to iodine for psoriasis is suggesting in two readings
that "iodide of potassium" be used in combination with a bunch of other stuff.
However, in those two readings, nobody ever mentions the word 'psoriasis' and
no skin symptoms are ever described, so who the heck knows?

>If you read all of those, your a more exacting man then I.
>Maybe you should read all of his crap, to make sure.

No thanks. I'm on the verge of buying the CD, though, just so I can run my own
searches and verify what the Meridian Institute is claiming.

>For now i'll demur that he didn't say it in some other context.

Same here.

Randall

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Feb 25, 2002, 12:58:24 PM2/25/02
to
Hi Dave,

I was starting to think i needed some viagra for the
brain over my lithium/cayce lapse. I don't usually get
my facts to screwed up. I'm more likely to screw with
them then the other way around.

So, i went back into my boxes of correspondence.
And found the letter from one of my concerned
friends. She was pushing the hydrogen microhydrin
MLM. I asked if it had helped any p's and she
said she would send me some info.
What she sent was a copy of a page of the
Edgar Cayce Companion, compiled by B. Ernest
Frejer. Pages 288-289 (on this page another
reference # is given- 840-1)

According to this it says to make lithia
water (one five grain tablet to the gallon)
to be the base of the elm and saffron waters
for ulcers and p.( a grain is ~ 65mgs ?)
My friends separate letter says to use one half
tsp of lithia (from the heritage store) to 8oz of water.
Since our relationship is shirt tail i'd bet she
doesn't suspect depressionary P effects.

Now, thats as far as i took it.
I dismissed the mlm and cayce without
a second thought, as to P. Even though they said
there was a pancreatic cancer patient who
recovered with the tenuously putative
curative powers of microhydrin. I did
try to get this gentlemans phone # out
of curiosity and dietary clues. Thats
another story. Cancer and diets are
another area i look into.

In the meanwhile i take notice of the
article in VRP "Potential Role for
Lithium in Preventing Alzheimers Disease"
by Linda Fugate PhD and an article
in Forbes magazine entitled "Viagra for
the Brain" that deals with C-gmp and the
formation of long and short term memorys.

And since we have a noted Brainologist
at UCSD that makes it into the local periodicals
often, named Ramachandran i've taken note of any
possible connections. His work is fascinating.
And there is a PBS show "The Secret Life of the
Brain" and a NOva show "Secrets of the Mind"
that show case Doctor Ramachandrans work.

So while lithiums pathway is foggy at present,
i've decided it may be a factor however slight,
as to p ramifications and the tyrosine connect.

So what is the homeostatic amount of lithium or
Boron or Vanadium in the body?
If there is a fat/mineral thing that i haven't
looked at before, i am now.

As alzheimers is a autoimmune disease and a
less then happy way to take the midnite train into
the unknown i'd think it deserves whatever small
corner it ends up in, some light. Its not all grey
areas. And whos to say that the critical answers
haven't already been made, just not processed to fit
the paradigms that be.

randall.. whats in the MIND of the P? Go google


stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020224173047...@mb-bd.aol.com>...


> Randall wrote:
> >In the VRP quote i was looking at the "fat metabolism" implication
> >and the antidepressive effects, not P specifically.
> >
> >Maybe thats the only association.
>
> Perhaps. Pretty tenuous.
>
> >For cayce, his current proponents offer:
> >. . .
> >(so it helps the kidneys but not P on the skin?)
>
> Sounds about right to me.
>
> >Iodine in Ointment Base
> >. . .
> >(but not P?)(from the first site i surfed)
>
> The closest Cayce comes to iodine for psoriasis is suggesting in two readings
> that "iodide of potassium" be used in combination with a bunch of other stuff.
> However, in those two readings, nobody ever mentions the word 'psoriasis' and
> no skin symptoms are ever described, so who the heck knows?
>
> >If you read all of those, your a more exacting man then I.
> >Maybe you should read all of his crap, to make sure.
>
> No thanks. I'm on the verge of buying the CD, though, just so I can run my own
> searches and verify what the Meridian Institute is claiming.


How can one be sure that this stuff isn't edited for the present day?

DaveW

unread,
Feb 27, 2002, 12:54:50 AM2/27/02
to
Randall wrote:
>...I don't usually get my facts to screwed up...
>
>...What she sent was a copy of a page of the

>Edgar Cayce Companion, compiled by B. Ernest
>Frejer. Pages 288-289 (on this page another
>reference # is given- 840-1)

Ah-HA! Okay. Gotta remember that Cayce did his schtick a long time ago.
Reading 840-1 (done on Feb 23, 1935) sure enough does talk about "lithia
water," which sure as heck won't turn up in a text search for "lithium," which
is what I did. Redoing the search on all 50 readings at the link I provided
before, though, for "lithia," turns up *only* reading 840-1 as suggesting it.

But that's not the full story. What Cayce actually says is,

"...We would not take any water unless it carried either a
small quantity of lithia, elm bark, or Saffron..."

He goes on to suggest the 5 grains of lithia per gallon thing. And also the
addition of saffron or elm bark to the lithia water a few times a day.

It's also important to note that nobody in this reading says "psoriasis." Not
only that, but the only skin symptoms mentioned are "rash" or "irritations,"
which could apply to bazillions of skin diseases. And, to *really* top things
off, Cayce, in this reading, specifically says, by my read of it, that the skin
troubles are the original *cause* of the thinning of the intestines, and not
the other way around.

Why is this reading listed among those that supposedly refer to psoriasis? I
don't have a clue.

>Even though they said
>there was a pancreatic cancer patient who
>recovered with the tenuously putative
>curative powers of microhydrin.

Yeah, yeah. You know, according to Carl Sagan, the cancer remission rate for
people who visit Lourdes is *lower* than the average world-wide rate of
*spontaneous* cancer remission?

>In the meanwhile i take notice of the
>article in VRP "Potential Role for
>Lithium in Preventing Alzheimers Disease"
>by Linda Fugate PhD and an article
>in Forbes magazine entitled "Viagra for
>the Brain" that deals with C-gmp and the
>formation of long and short term memorys.

The thing is, of course, that lots of stuff in the body affects lots of other
stuff. The C-gmp thing in relation to psoriasis has been noted by a few
people, but I've yet to see any evidence that tinkering directly with C-gmp
levels has any effect on psoriasis overall in a living, breathing human being.
It's important to keep in mind that "abnormal" levels of various chemicals in a
psoriatic may be a *symptom*, and not a cause, of the disease. As examples, I
can refer you to a couple of Gary "Evetsm" Jackson's own pieces of evidence,
which appear to state that certain insulin-resistance markers vary in response
to the level of psoriasis, and not necessarily the other way around (that the
psoriasis varies in response to the markers), as Gary would have us believe.

Randall

unread,
Feb 27, 2002, 12:44:49 PM2/27/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020227005450...@mb-fk.aol.com>...

> Randall wrote:
> >...I don't usually get my facts to screwed up...
> >
> >...What she sent was a copy of a page of the
> >Edgar Cayce Companion, compiled by B. Ernest
> >Frejer. Pages 288-289 (on this page another
> >reference # is given- 840-1)
>
> Ah-HA! Okay. Gotta remember that Cayce did his schtick a long time ago.
> Reading 840-1 (done on Feb 23, 1935) sure enough does talk about "lithia
> water," which sure as heck won't turn up in a text search for "lithium," which
> is what I did. Redoing the search on all 50 readings at the link I provided
> before, though, for "lithia," turns up *only* reading 840-1 as suggesting it.
>
> But that's not the full story. What Cayce actually says is,
>
> "...We would not take any water unless it carried either a
> small quantity of lithia, elm bark, or Saffron..."
>
> He goes on to suggest the 5 grains of lithia per gallon thing. And also the
> addition of saffron or elm bark to the lithia water a few times a day.

So, 325 mgs of lithia per gallon of cayce tea water isn't homeopathic.
How *clear* did his p people get? How many de novo cases per 100?
2.6%?


>
> It's also important to note that nobody in this reading says "psoriasis." Not
> only that, but the only skin symptoms mentioned are "rash" or "irritations,"
> which could apply to bazillions of skin diseases. And, to *really* top things
> off, Cayce, in this reading, specifically says, by my read of it, that the skin
> troubles are the original *cause* of the thinning of the intestines, and not
> the other way around.

Hey! He's a pyscho, he can go around the circle from either side.


>
> Why is this reading listed among those that supposedly refer to psoriasis? I
> don't have a clue.

Your not pyschic enough? You have to transmute O2 into visualizations.
Now go to sleep.


>
> >Even though they said
> >there was a pancreatic cancer patient who
> >recovered with the tenuously putative
> >curative powers of microhydrin.
>
> Yeah, yeah. You know, according to Carl Sagan, the cancer remission rate for
> people who visit Lourdes is *lower* than the average world-wide rate of
> *spontaneous* cancer remission?

I wonder if Madonna knows? Sure has caused spontaneoous world wide
emissions.
Very suspicious. If Carl only had the heart to listen to like a virgin
he may still be with us. Lourdes is obviously a state of mind.
Has anyone checked the lithia in lourdes?


>
> >In the meanwhile i take notice of the
> >article in VRP "Potential Role for
> >Lithium in Preventing Alzheimers Disease"
> >by Linda Fugate PhD and an article
> >in Forbes magazine entitled "Viagra for
> >the Brain" that deals with C-gmp and the
> >formation of long and short term memorys.
>
> The thing is, of course, that lots of stuff in the body affects lots of other
> stuff. The C-gmp thing in relation to psoriasis has been noted by a few
> people, but I've yet to see any evidence that tinkering directly with C-gmp
> levels has any effect on psoriasis overall in a living, breathing human being.

Sure, viagra will indirectly lower spermidine levels thru depletion if
nothing else and changing the diet (less meat) would indirectly lower
NO (nitric oxide) levels and that will do something.


> It's important to keep in mind that "abnormal" levels of various chemicals in a
> psoriatic may be a *symptom*, and not a cause, of the disease.

This is a basket case of symptoms for P, i presume. Any string on
anything
is a clue.

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^

Since the aetiopathogenesis of psoriasis is still not well
established, there are several postulations.
The biochemical aspects of psoriasis are mainly related to the
arachidonic acid metabolism. The release of arachidonic acid is
increased by the enhanced activity of phospholipase A2.The
cycloxygenase pathway is inhibited in psoriatic skin so this acid is
diverted to the lipoxygenase pathway leading to increase in
concentration of many human peripheral leucocytes attractants like
leukotrene B4, eicosatetraenoic acid, interleukines, peptides,
platelet activating factors etc.
Another important factor implicated is the complement C5a (des arg)
derivative. This is produced due to compliment activation by complexes
formed between stratum corneum antigens and antistratum corneum
antibodies.
All the above factors as well as increase in the epidermal growth
factor, increase in IL6 and LTB4 etc increases the mitogenic
potential. The alterations in the cyclic AMP, cGMP ratio also
contributes to this. CGMP is increased and cAMP is decreased in
psoriatic skin.
There are controversial reports about a decrease in Protein Kinase C,
metabolite of phosphotidyl inositol. Protein Kinase C deficiency leads
to increase in mitosis.
Calcium and its binding protein calmodulin modulate growth and
differentiation of cells. Increase in calcium binding protein is seen
in psoriatic skin leading to increase in epidermal proliferation
Ornithidine decarboxylase is the rate-limiting enzyme in the synthesis
of polyamines (spermidine, spermine and putrescine), which in turn
increase DNA synthesis and cell proliferation. Some reports are
showing an enhanced production of polyamines in the causation of
increased epidermal proliferation.
Most of the changes are not specific for psoriasis. To some extent
these alterations are seen in contact dermatitis, atopic dermatitis
etc also.

from: www.hanishbabu.com/psoriasis.htm (pictures and other p
stuff too)

of course No hangs out and arrives with the other plasmic p players
via
an artery. Maybe p is slowing the plaque on the inside of the arteries
to a small
degree?

Some good info for NO and stuff that sticks to the inside of your
plumbing.

Plaque on the inside of arteries is another problem of a fatal nature.

go to http://www.atherogenics.com/science/publication.html

Arterial inflammation articles.

NOT enough NO and tnf for plaque in the arteries. I wonder what the
PPARs
are doing?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=8799163&dopt=Abstract

I could find some alzheimers plaque in the Brain for us, if i thought
it was
OK for understanding NO and what's happening on the surface of things.

(from a randall post on feb/4, 2002) or there abouts

^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^


> As examples, I
> can refer you to a couple of Gary "Evetsm" Jackson's own pieces of evidence,
> which appear to state that certain insulin-resistance markers vary in response
> to the level of psoriasis, and not necessarily the other way around (that the
> psoriasis varies in response to the markers), as Gary would have us believe.

His dreams are fun, just don't let the details get in the whey.

Hey, i wonder how evetsm's doing on his lactulose thing? We haven't
heard from him for a few weeks. He said his seb. was clearing somewhat
from *bacterial gardening*.

He may be the first one in the p ng to even come close to randalls
whey
and he doesn't have p? So gary come clean on the good bacteria in
the gut and any clearings of your skin.

randall... time for my whey shake or making good flora grow/P go
awhey.

DaveW

unread,
Mar 2, 2002, 2:44:06 AM3/2/02
to
Randall wrote:
>So, 325 mgs of lithia per gallon of cayce tea water isn't homeopathic.

Uh, when did homeopathy creep into this? Anyway, no, doing nothing but dumping
325 mg of lithia into a gallon of water isn't "homeopathic" by any standard
meaning of the word.

>How *clear* did his p people get? How many de novo cases per 100?
>2.6%?

You really don't know Cayce, do you? Follow-up was spotty, at best. And if a
treatment didn't work, at least as far as the psoriasis readings go, it sure as
heck wasn't *Cayce's* fault. The three examples of that I know of are:

1) The patient wasn't doing the right things,
2) the osteopath giving the spinal adjustments or specifying the diet was
screwing up,
and 3) the info I gave you last session was for someone else in the building at
the time.

Cayce was bulletproof in this regard.

>Hey! He's a pyscho, he can go around the circle from either side.

Well, I can't help but demand a little consistency. Especially when others are
claiming "Cayce said thus-and-such would fix psoriasis," but are wrong. It's
the pick-and-choose nonsense that gets to me the most. Cayce said
this-and-that were good for psoriasis? Well, in some cases he said the exact
opposite. Dammit, I've got to get back to finishing my article on Cayce...

>This is a basket case of symptoms for P, i presume. Any string on
>anything is a clue.

My point was, are they good clues, or bad ones? I don't think anyone can tell
just yet, so suggesting, as some "natural therapies" resources do, that
supplementing cAMP might be beneficial for psoriasis, is simply unsupported by
the evidence available. Even the evidence from...

>from: www.hanishbabu.com/psoriasis.htm (pictures and other p stuff too)

...which is a nifty page, thanks.

>Some good info for NO...

I'll pass on the NO for now. That's what got me started with Evetsm, if I'm
not mistaken.

>His dreams are fun, just don't let the details get in the whey.

If he presented them as dreams, I wouldn't have issues with him.

evetsm

unread,
Mar 11, 2002, 11:57:22 AM3/11/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020227005450...@mb-fk.aol.com>...
> Randall wrote:

> psoriatic may be a *symptom*, and not a cause, of the disease. As examples, I
> can refer you to a couple of Gary "Evetsm" Jackson's own pieces of evidence,
> which appear to state that certain insulin-resistance markers vary in response
> to the level of psoriasis, and not necessarily the other way around (that the
> psoriasis varies in response to the markers), as Gary would have us believe.


You are still linear Dave. Think feedback. Think cause and effect
having impact on each other !!!!!! Not that difficult. You know, when
Jimi put his guitar pickup next to the amp ?

evetsm

unread,
Mar 11, 2002, 12:15:28 PM3/11/02
to
ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote in message n
> His dreams are fun, just don't let the details get in the whey.
>
> Hey, i wonder how evetsm's doing on his lactulose thing? We haven't
> heard from him for a few weeks. He said his seb. was clearing somewhat
> from *bacterial gardening*.

Your understanding of the details are in the whey. Desparate dog
chasing his tail : unstable feedback loop ! You're always welcome to
point out which part is not fun. -g-

I am doing better than I have on any other viable protocol that I have
tried. Exorex always controlled things well for me, but I could never
accept that band-aid for good. The lactulose has cleared my seb derm
up for more than 1 month. Powerful stuff, that lactulose. The first
few days were unpleasant with stomach cramps , gas and mild diarrhea
and flu. (herxenheimer reaction ? Or whatever that is called ?)

I took that as a good sign that the lactic acid bacteria were doing
their thing. I tentatively consider this to be the answer. Still too
early to be definitive. Swelling , redness, and scaling gone.

DaveW

unread,
Mar 11, 2002, 11:44:10 PM3/11/02
to
Gary wrote:
> You are still linear Dave. Think feedback. Think cause and effect
> having impact on each other !!!!!! Not that difficult. You know, when
> Jimi put his guitar pickup next to the amp ?

Great to hear about your seb. derm. going away. I do honestly hope it remains
gone.

But to reply to the above...

Very interesting, Gary. For years, you've done nothing but dismiss the very
idea that psoriasis might cause insulin resistance, in any amount, but now
you've implied it might with this talk of feedback. This softening of your
stance intrigues me.

Of course, you are still circular, Gary. And with circular logic, one can
"prove" anything, really. So, rather than posit another hypothetical feedback
loop (and sully Hendrix's name with an oversimplified analogy, to boot), why
don't you show some evidence that this one (at least) exists? Then we can move
on to the other feedback loops you've ad hocced throughout the ages.

By the way, it's "Herxheimer reaction," as in, "an increase in the symptoms of
a spirochetal disease (as syphilis, Lyme disease, or relapsing fever) occurring
in some persons when treatment with spirocheticidal drugs is started" (Merriam
Webster online medical dictionary). Named after Karl Herxheimer (1861-1944).
Really it's "Jarisch-Herxheimer Reaction," since it's also named after Adolph
Jarisch (1850-1902).

The term has been usurped by the alternative-medicine community to mean any
worsening of any disease during any treatment, an ad hoc explanation by quacks
which steers patients away from thinking about what might really be going on:
that many diseases flare and remit, and so can do so coincidental to treatment
with worthless drugs or therapies quite often.

evetsm

unread,
Mar 12, 2002, 9:11:54 AM3/12/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020311234410...@mb-fr.aol.com>...

> Gary wrote:
> > You are still linear Dave. Think feedback. Think cause and effect
> > having impact on each other !!!!!! Not that difficult. You know, when
> > Jimi put his guitar pickup next to the amp ?
>
> Great to hear about your seb. derm. going away. I do honestly hope it remains
> gone.
>

Thanks.

> But to reply to the above...
>
> Very interesting, Gary. For years, you've done nothing but dismiss the very
> idea that psoriasis might cause insulin resistance, in any amount, but now
> you've implied it might with this talk of feedback. This softening of your
> stance intrigues me.

No. A thrifty genotype in the face of excess carb intake as a cause of
psoriasis is the ORIGINAL hypothesis.ie Syndrome X. Still is.


From : 1999/03/21

http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl2860905093d&hl=en&selm=7d3qcr%244sp%241%40nnrp1.dejanews.com&rnum=1

"
According to J.V Neel , in a paper in 1962 "Diabetes mellitus : A
thrifty
genotype rendered detrimental by "progress" ? He said that there
exists a
genetic group in certain people that enables them to make efficient
metabolic
use of carbohydrates. These people start by being very efficient
metabolisers of scarce glucose due to genetic selective pressures
caused by
the environment. They inherit and are born with that capability.

These people do well as long as they keep eating a relatively small
amount of
carbohydrates, but all goes wrong when they switch to a high
carbohydrate
diet. According to J.S Allen in a paper "The non-thrifty genotype"
1996 he
states that there is abundant evidence, then, to support the idea that
a
thrifty genotype would be beneficial to individuals living in
conditions of
food stress and that the adoption of a Western diet negates the
benefit of a
thrifty metabolism, instead making an individual possessing the
genotype more
prone to diabetes."

I went on to make the linkage to psoriasis, using the !!!MARKERS!!!
among which are IR, dyslipidemia, hypertension, microalbuminemia in
significant above normal levels.

You went and got lost down a 1000 "marker" rabbit holes and like a
fool I followed -g-


Read my confetti in response to your confetti. (near the end)

http://www.geocities.com/evetsm.rm/psoriasis_and_syndrome_x.html

DaveW

unread,
Mar 12, 2002, 11:10:38 PM3/12/02
to
Gary wrote:
>No. A thrifty genotype in the face of excess carb intake as a cause of
>psoriasis is the ORIGINAL hypothesis.ie Syndrome X. Still is.

A re-statement of your hypothesis is both irrelevant to the point that was
being discussed and a non-answer to the one direct question I asked. Use all
the capital letters and exclamation points you want, Gary, it won't help your
case. It's rather obvious that you're the one spinning us around in circles
with this continued stonewalling and evasiveness.

>Read my confetti in response to your confetti. (near the end)

I did. I even wrote a response. Problem is, I forgot to put it up on my web
site 7 months ago like I should have. It's up there now, though. The
following link goes directly to my response to your so-called "rebuttal," so
you won't have to do much reading:

http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/evetsm.html#update1

evetsm

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 9:19:09 AM3/13/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020312231038...@mb-fp.aol.com>...

> Gary wrote:
> >No. A thrifty genotype in the face of excess carb intake as a cause of
> >psoriasis is the ORIGINAL hypothesis.ie Syndrome X. Still is.
>
> A re-statement of your hypothesis is both irrelevant to the point that was
> being discussed and a non-answer to the one direct question I asked.


This is an example of just how confused you are on this. Now you write
on that webpage of yours :

"Without showing how psoriasis adds to the risk of heart disease,
calling it a "disease of Syndrome X" makes no sense."

You ask the wrong questions because you obviously believe that
psoriasis initiates all this and that people with psoriasis have
Syndrome X because of the psoriasis via the induction of heart
disease. No ?

How can that be ?

FACT 1. Metabolic Syndrome X is a cluster of abnormalities
including insulin resistance, hyperlipidemia, hypertension,
and obesity.

People with psoriasis fall significantly into this category.

FACT 2. If you give specifically insulin sensitizing
drugs to people with psoriasis, polycystic ovary syndrome,
diabetes II, and arthritis associated with Syndrome X,
you clear up each one of these diseases.


You see a pattern here ?

These 2 facts say that psoriasis is LIKELY to be a disease of Syndrome
X.

Don't get your pyramid head into a knot wondering if psoriasis causes
heart disease. It may, it may not. It does not further the argument
that psoriasis is a disease of syndrome X. It is a non sequiter. It is
beside the point. It is superfluous. Its the definition, stupid !

Now let us not disrupt this group with this crud !

evetsm

unread,
Mar 13, 2002, 1:00:58 PM3/13/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message


I forgot this.......

The latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
sick.


"In conclusion, visceral AT alone is a strong correlate of insulin
resistance independent of nonabdominal and abdominal subcutaneous AT
and cardiovascular fitness. "

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11832370&dopt=Abstract

"Abdominal fat may cause insulin resistance-one of the major factors
for type 2 diabetes-by releasing high levels of free fatty acids (FFA)
directly into the portal vein, stimulating the liver to overproduce
glucose, according to research conducted by scientists at the Keck
School of Medicine of USC."

http://www.usc.edu/hsc/info/pr/1vol7/720/pot.html


"The increased prevalence of metabolic syndrome among Japanese
migrants could be attributed to visceral fat deposition, which has
been implicated in the genesis of insulin resistance"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11887223&dopt=Abstract


"The findings reinforce the importance of diminished visceral fat in
the treatment of insulin resistance"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11874926&dopt=Abstract


"Despite the well-described association between obesity and insulin
resistance..."

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11872676&dopt=Abstract


"The abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissue of type II diabetic
patients, as visceral adipose tissues, contributes to their insulin
resistance."


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11798533&dopt=Abstract


"Several mechanisms have been proposed as possible causes underlying
the development of insulin resistance and the insulin resistance
syndrome. These include: (1) genetic abnormalities of one or more
proteins of the insulin action cascade (2) fetal malnutrition (3)
increases in visceral adiposity"

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11723552&dopt=Abstract


http://www.pantox.com/research/SpecialNeeds/obesity.html

"sumo wrestlers, who of course are massively obese, tend to have good
insulin sensitivity, owing to the fact that they have relatively
little visceral fat"


"Second, a number of non-HIV studies have firmly established that fat
distribution changes—including increases in visceral adipose tissue
(VAT)—are indirect causes of insulin resistance. Because lipodystrophy
is often associated with increased fat—and because fat is associated
with an elevation in free fatty acids (FFAs), which may contribute to
an abnormal metabolic cycle that can result in altered insulin
signaling"


http://www.prn.org/prn_nb_cntnt/vol6/num4/horn_frm.htm


Isn't it coincidental ?


Psoriatics are often overweight. Psoriasis improves with weight loss.
Insulin resistance improves with weight loss. Psoriasis lesions, as
you claim, is NOT likely the cause of IR.

Maybe you will take that rubbish off the internet now ?

evetsm

unread,
Mar 14, 2002, 5:55:45 AM3/14/02
to
eve...@rocketmail.com (evetsm) wrote in message news:<75b46524.0203...@posting.google.com>...

> stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message
>
>
> I forgot this.......
>
> The latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
> triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
> Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
> insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
> sick.

Well, well, well......it smells like a skunk, it could well be a
skunk.

Dislipidemia and oxidative stress in mild and in severe psoriasis as a
risk for cardiovascular disease.

Rocha-Pereira P, Santos-Silva A, Rebelo I, Figueiredo A, Quintanilha
A, Teixeira F.

Departamento de Quimica da Universidade da Beira Interior, Rua Marques
d'Avila e Bolama, 6200 Covilha, Portugal. pet...@ciunix.ubi.pt

Psoriasis is a common chronic and recurrent inflammatory skin disorder
that has been associated with oxidative stress, abnormal plasma lipid
metabolism and with high frequency of cardiovascular events. This
prevalence seems to be related to the severity of psoriasis, as it
occurs more frequently in patients presenting large areas of the body
affected with psoriasis lesions. The aim of our work was to evaluate
the development of oxidative stress and of dislipidemia in psoriasis,
and to look for a correlation between their levels and worsening of
psoriasis. We evaluated lipid profile, total antioxidant capacity,
antioxidant vitamins A and E, and lipoperoxidation products. The study
was performed in controls and in patients presenting mild and severe
psoriasis. *****!!!!!Patients presented risk changes in lipid profile
(a rise in cholesterol (P<0.01), triglycerides (P<0.001), low density
lipoprotein cholesterol (P<0.01), very low density lipoprotein
cholesterol (P<0.01), apolipoprotein B (P<0.001) and lipoprotein(a)
(P<0.001); and a reduction in high density lipoprotein cholesterol
(P<0.001)), a rise in lipoperoxidation products (P<0.001) !!!!!!****
(LOOKS LIKE SYNDROME X ?) and a reduction in total antioxidant
capacity (P<0.001) and in antioxidant vitamins A (P<0.001) and E
(P<0.05). Moreover, we found that the worsening of psoriasis was
associated with the enhancement of oxidative stress and of the lipid
risk changes. Our data suggest that psoriasis patients must be
considered as a group at risk for cardiovascular disease and that this
risk seems to be higher in severe psoriasis. In addition, a possible
benefit of an enriched diet or of a supplement of vitamins A and E in
psoriasis patients should be further studied.

DaveW

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Mar 14, 2002, 11:34:18 PM3/14/02
to
Gary wrote:
>Now let us not disrupt this group with this crud !

Sure: http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/evetsm.html#update2

evetsm

unread,
Mar 15, 2002, 4:48:03 AM3/15/02
to
> stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message
>
>
> I forgot this.......
>
> The latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
> triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
> Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
> insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
> sick.
>
> Isn't it coincidental ?
>
>
> Psoriatics are often overweight. Psoriasis improves with weight loss.
> Insulin resistance improves with weight loss. Psoriasis lesions, as
> you claim, is NOT likely the cause of IR.

If you are "lean" you may still be "metabolically obese"

Two decades ago, Dr. Neal Ruderman postulated that there is subset of
reasonably lean people who are nonetheless "metabolically obese" -
they show the typical signs of the insulin resistance syndrome in the
absence of obesity. Subsequent research has confirmed this view - a
significant proportion of normal weight people experience this
syndrome. When it became feasible to quantify visceral fat levels
using new CAT scan technology, Matsuzawa and colleagues discovered
that normal weight people who were nonetheless "metabolically obese"
had higher amounts of visceral fat than people of comparable body size
who were insulin sensitive.

http://www.pantox.com/research/SpecialNeeds/obesity.html

evetsm

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Mar 15, 2002, 5:56:53 AM3/15/02
to
> latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
> triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
> Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
> insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
> sick.
>
> Isn't it coincidental ?
>
>
> Psoriatics are often overweight. Psoriasis improves with weight loss.
> Insulin resistance improves with weight loss. Psoriasis lesions, as
> you claim, is NOT likely the cause of IR.


Some children have increased visceral adipose tissue (VAT) that is
independant of general obesity, is hard to detect, and is a risk for
Syndrome X. VAT is higher in Caucasians than African-Americans.

Visceral fat in prepubertal children: Influence of obesity,
anthropometry, ethnicity, gender, diet, and growth.

Goran MI.

Division of Physiology and Metabolism, Department of Nutrition
Sciences, University of Alabama at Birmingham, Birmingham, Alabama
35294.

Visceral fat, or intra-abdominal adipose tissue (IAAT) lies deep
within the abdominal cavity and can only be directly quantified with
imaging techniques. IAAT has been detected in children as young as 5
years of age. IAAT generally increases in proportion with general
fatness, but the relationship between IAAT and total body fat is
complex; in children, a major portion of the variance in IAAT is
independent of total body fat. The waist-to-hip ratio and the
trunk:extremity skinfold ratio are not good indices of IAAT in
children, and central skinfolds and waist circumference alone are
highly correlated with IAAT as well as subcutaneous abdominal adipose
tissue (r = 0.85-0.92). African-American children have less IAAT than
Caucasian children, and gender differences in IAAT become more
apparent after adolescence. Preliminary evidence in children suggests
that IAAT may have a stronger influence on cardiovascular risk factors
than dietary fat intake. Preliminary evidence in children also
suggests that acquisition of IAAT during growth is a linear process
that occurs in proportion to general increases in body fat. The study
of the regulation of IAAT acquisition during childhood development and
its relationship with long-term disease risk is in its early infancy
and further studies are required. Am. J. Hum. Biol. 11:201-207, 1999.
Copyright 1999 Wiley-Liss, Inc.

PMID: 11533944 [PubMed - as supplied by publisher]

evetsm

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Mar 15, 2002, 8:53:35 AM3/15/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020314233418...@mb-fa.aol.com>...

evetsm wrote :
"are you going take that rubbish off the internet ?"

No. Actually, leave that stuff up on the internet. For the record.

LCherensky

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 12:15:07 AM3/16/02
to
If anyone cares to know, since I started this inquiry, the Edgar Cayce shampoo
has helped my p. Especially the itching.

evetsm

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 8:21:44 AM3/16/02
to
> stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message
>
>
> I forgot this.......
>
> The latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
> triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
> Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
> insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
> sick.
> Isn't it coincidental ?
>
>
> Psoriatics are often overweight. Psoriasis improves with weight loss.
> Insulin resistance improves with weight loss. Psoriasis lesions, as
> you claim, is NOT likely the cause of IR.
>


A bit of history .......
Date: 2000-09-29 16:50:14 PST

evetsm replied to Davew :


"You believe that psoriasis causes IR via the
production of TNF created from inflamation related to the psoriasis ?

I don't believe this is true. It appears that the amount of serum TNF
is
*only* a function of the amount of visceral fat (upper body
triglycerides) and *not* a function of psoriasis or inflamation of any
type....."


http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=8r39he%24pg3%241%40nnrp1.deja.com

Date: 2000-09-30 15:30:09 PST
Evetsm replied again to Davew :

"Of course TNF is pro-inflamatory, but, *TNF is not produced by
inflamation or psoriasis* ! Can you not see that ? It is not that
difficult. It is a product of triglycerides ie it is only produced by
triglycerides. Those studies I quoted definately say that in so many
words. You have never shown that it is *produced* by psoriasis or
inflamation, because you cannot. You speculated that this was the case
and you are wrong ! Therefore psoriasis cannot produce IR , at least
via
TNF !"


http://groups.google.com/groups?q=tnf+triglycerides+group:alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis&hl=en&ie=ISO-8859-1&oe=ISO-8859-1&selm=8r5p2r%24grt%241%40nnrp1.deja.com&rnum=1

Fast forward to March 2002......

And what is visceral adipose tissue ? TRIGLYCEDRIDES DEPOSITED AROUND
THE WAIST !!!! And how do we get those triglycerides ? By having
excess carbohydrates stored by insulin as fat. Unbelievable !

That website of yours must be preserved for posterity -g-

evetsm

unread,
Mar 16, 2002, 11:58:23 AM3/16/02
to
> stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message
>
>
> I forgot this.......
>
> The latest info from published research : visceral adipose tissue ie
> triglycerides around the middle is the cause of insulin resistance.
> Or in street terms, scarfing down excess carbs ,stored as fat from
> insulin converted carbs/glucose, gets you a big belly and makes you
> sick.
> Isn't it coincidental ?
>
>
> Psoriatics are often overweight. Psoriasis improves with weight loss.
> Insulin resistance improves with weight loss. Psoriasis lesions, as
> you claim, is NOT likely the cause of IR.

Tumor necrosis factor (TNF) said to cause the inflammation, or have a
role in the inflammation of psoriasis is a product of visceral adipose
tissue (fat) and causes insulin resistance. Psoriasis is probably THE
RESULT of adipose produced TNF and psoriasis does not CAUSE TNF or
adipose fat.


"Concentrations of TNF-alpha and IL-6 were related (P<0.01) to
visceral obesity"


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11854119&dopt=Abstract

Several of the compounds deriving from adipose tissue have been shown
to play a role in obesity-related health complications. The production
of cytokines (TNF-alpha, IL-6, IL-8) is implicated in the development
of insulin resistance and atherosclerosis. All elements in the
renin-angiotensin system are produced in adipose tissue, which is thus
related to hypertension. The production of PAI-1 could be related to
enhanced thrombogenesis. The release of the compounds described is
generally higher from adipocytes in the visceral depot, which could
explain the close association between this depot and health
complications.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11402968&dopt=Abstract

There is accumulating evidence for a role of tumor necrosis
factor-alpha (TNF-alpha) in insulin resistance induced by obesity

TNF is produced primarily by macrophages, however it has also been
demonstrated to be synthesized and secreted by adipose tissue. In the
later case it is produced in proportion to the amount/volume of the
adipose tissue. Interestingly, we and others have demonstrated that
TNF can act in an autocrine fashion to render the adipose cells
insulin resistant.

http://www.ecu.edu/biochemistry/Pekala.htm

For example, thigh adipose tissue is relatively inactive metabolically
while visceral and abdominal subcutaneous adipose tissues are quite
active and secrete more proteins. Only TNF" is secreted similarly from
all adipose depots

http://www.hivandhepatitis.com/2001conf/4thnutrition/1h.html

Adipose tissue expresses tumor necrosis factor (TNF) and interleukin
(IL)-6, which may cause obesity-related insulin resistance

By use of this approach, subjects with low SI(low insulin
sensitivity=insulin resistance) demonstrated a 3.0-fold increased
level of TNF secretion from adipose tissue and a 2.3-fold higher
plasma IL-6 level (P < 0.05) compared with matched subjects

http://www.uth.tmc.edu/apstracts/2001/endo/February/22e.html

The major function of human adipose tissue is to store excess ingested
energy and to release free fatty acids after hydrolysis of
triglycerides (lipolysis), to meet the energy demands of other organs.
Adipose tissue also has a secretory function. It secretes several
proteins, such as acylation stimulating protein (ASP), plasminogen
activator inhibitor-1 (PAI-1), tumour necrosis factor-cc (TNF-alpha)
and leptin


It was shown that TNF-alpha inhibited insulin-stimulated glucose
transport in adipose tissue specimens in culture and that adipose
tissue TNF-alpha secretion correlated negatively with insulin-
stimulated glucose transport in isolated adipocytes (ie TNF causes
insulin resistance)

http://diss.kib.ki.se/2001/91-628-4637-X/

The administration of thiazolidinedione has been imagined to increase
insulin sensitivity of muscle and liver, either directly through the
low levels of PPARg expressed in these tissues or indirectly through
(TNFa) [AU: SPELL OUT ON FIRST MENTION] produced in fat

The finding that the severity of insulin resistance is the same in
lean and obese diabetic subjects12,13 is consistent with the
possibility of adipocyte storage capacity being more important than
body fatness in the genesis of insulin resistance

http://www.jrnlappliedresearch.com/articles/Vol1Iss1/Poothullil.htm


Obesity => IL-6+TNF-alpha =>Leptin

"Tumor Necrosis Factor (TNF) impairs insulin signaling through Insulin
Receptor Substrate-1

http://www.diabetes-mellitus.org/obese.htm

Randall

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Mar 16, 2002, 1:01:05 PM3/16/02
to
lcher...@aol.com (LCherensky) wrote in message news:<20020316001507...@mb-mh.aol.com>...

> If anyone cares to know, since I started this inquiry, the Edgar Cayce shampoo
> has helped my p. Especially the itching.

Yes you did.

And now we know salicylic acid and Herbs may help from
your empirical support. But, what about the lithia?
Have you checked with the manufacturer to see if they
use it as a H2O base of some sort? And how much?

Here is what we know. You are where you are now. Its helped.

Back then you said:

No,
I don't think they sell Litium. Everything is natural from him. The shampoo has
salicylic acid, which is nothing new, but also has other oils and herbs. I only
used it once, and it seems to have clamed my scalp. Less redness and itching,
but it is too soon to tell. IT has little or no smell, and is not drying, whch
is nice.

Heck, everything is natural isn't it?

Then you raised the sleeping (slumbering) sporspot.
Who was flaring to re activate against all that is
flaky. SuperED and his sidekick DW, two real good psor
trivialists.

Maybe my P-tomfoolery finally had some 30% DNA ramification.

I only wanted to know if the lithia was a homeopathic dose.
In otherwords, useless.

Then i said in one of my ten posts to this thread maybe
SuperduperED and DW will come back to debate evetsm over
his bacterial gardening. And i was p pyschic, they did.
Gulp, i also made a p promise to downtone my posts. I did.

Maybe i should go to sleep and dream up a p cure, du jour.
Or was that a de novo p case induced by bi-polar lithia levels.

Can someone find a search engine that knows what the
homeostatic levels of germanium, boron, vanadium and
lithium et al, are in the well functioning body?
Thats all i asked. Don't bother now. I'll do it myself.
If i can clear my own p, i can find out about lithium with
out being castigated for the newby effect.

I did once upon a time slurp down a few bottles of the
ionic minerals to some slight p effects. I wonder if it
was the lithium. I'll find out empirically one day.

And please no more comments around the periphery of this
thread. I have a valid reason for my original question.
And that means you, evestm. I have enough fat without
your weighing in with Pudmed P + adipose tissue searches
all to NO avail to my musings.

NOw will dw or ed take or give a clue? NO.
It was retorical for me only, once and again.

NOw we knowsis how a thread gets shred and we all
go round the mulberry bush, my p friends.

randall... the lazuras thread begs for four more days of p relief
and the question never even got asked. why?

DaveW

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Mar 17, 2002, 12:24:32 AM3/17/02
to
Gary wrote:
>A bit of history .......

Good grief. Who's leading us down the same old paths again? Gary, that's who.

My latest response: http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/evetsm.html#update3

A sample: "...at this point in time ... Jackson appears to be beyond reason."

DaveW

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Mar 17, 2002, 12:28:23 AM3/17/02
to
LCherensky wrote:

>If anyone cares to know, since I started this inquiry, the Edgar Cayce
>shampoo has helped my p. Especially the itching.

Hey, that's great! I hope it keeps working for you!

Also, I apologize for the tremendous hijack this thread has experienced of
late.

evetsm

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Mar 17, 2002, 8:42:15 AM3/17/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020317002432...@mb-bh.aol.com>...


Davew wrote :

Until further research is done, the TNFa aspect of psoriasis is a dead
end as far as insulin resistance is concerned. !!!***There's not
enough evidence to show that TNFa produced in psoriasis plaques causes
significant insulin resistance (although theoretically it can
exacerbate insulin resistance, and thus Syndrome X).***!!!! And while
blood-borne TNFa produced by adipose tissue can conceivably exacerbate
psoriasis, there doesn't appear to be any evidence whatsoever that it
is involved in the pathogenesis of the disease. "
===============================================================


Davew, you are right, not only is their little evidence that psoriasis
produces TNF that causes IR, there is NO evidence . There is some
evidence that TNF is marshalled from adipocytes to produce
inflammation in wounds and that there is transitory IR, but there is
however volumes of concrete, iron cast evidence, that adipose fat
causes IR and inflammation and reducing fat reduces IR, inflammation
AND reduces psoriasis ! AND using drugs that specifically act on
adipose to reduce IR clears psoriasis. You see the pathway of action ?
They do not act directly on the inflammation (psoriasis etc) they act
on the fat to clear the psoriasis. ie the source of the mediators of
inflammation is in the fat. If psoriasis inflammation produced IR then
clearing IR cannot clear psoriasis ! You cannot clear a cause by
clearing the effect.

Here's why :

The Thiazolidinedione drugs(TZD) clear psoriasis and the "current
concept is that, when PPAR-gamma is activated by these drugs, the
number of small adipocytes is increased to replace large adipocytes,
thereby decreasing the release of TNF-alpha and FFA from adipose
tissue." ie TZD's work on the fat that produces the TNF.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11712393&dopt=Abstract

Further evidence that the TZD's work via adipose tissue to clear
inflammation.

The Thiazolidinedione drugs (TZD) act on adiponectin, an
!!!adipose(fat)-specific plasma protein!! that possesses
anti-atherogenic properties.

TZDs might prevent atherosclerotic vascular disease in
insulin-resistant patients by inducing the production of adiponectin
through direct effect on its promoter and antagonizing the effect of
TNF-alpha on the adiponectin promoter.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=11522676&dopt=Abstract

DaveW

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Mar 18, 2002, 2:44:18 AM3/18/02
to
Gary wrote:
>...There is some evidence that TNF is marshalled from adipocytes to produce
>inflammation in wounds...

See update 4: http://members.aol.com/psorsite/docs/evetsm.html#update4

A sample: "Nothing Jackson has shown indicates anything other than that
Syndrome X and psoriasis are independent conditions which can complicate each
other through interactions of TNFa (and perhaps other cytokines). A similarity
in risk factors easily explains their comorbidity."

evetsm

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Mar 18, 2002, 4:31:30 AM3/18/02
to
Davew : psoriasis causes insulin resistance and all the symptoms seen
in psoriatics that resemble syndrome X

If this is true then why :

1. Does the onset age of psoriasis resemble that of diseases of
syndrome X which all have their origins in obesity and IR ?
2. Do the TZD insulin sensitizing drugs that work via the adipose fat
clear psoriasis ?
3. Does weight gain worsen and weight loss improve psoriasis ?
4. Does another generalized inflammatory skin disease , atopic eczema,
have absolutely no association with IR or any of the diseases of
Syndrome X ?

In short Davew W your argument has no evidence anywhere in the
literature and it cannot explain any of the above. That is because it
is bogus.

evetsm

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Mar 18, 2002, 8:59:11 AM3/18/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message news:<20020318024418...@mb-cm.aol.com>...


"They have the same risk factors." But, they have nothing to do with
each other, except that they interact with each other -g- You need a
good psycho-tropic to dream that up. DON'T erase that web page !!! We
are going to need that for posterity.

Yes, and that TNF comes from fat, because if you reduce the fat you
reduce the psoriasis and the IR.

If you reduce the psoriasis you do not reduce the fat or the IR.
Anyone found themselves getting thin by going to the UVB farm , lately
? Anyone ever reduced their heart disease by lying under a sunlamp and
clearing up their skin ? Anyone ever reduced their blood pressure by
clearing psoriasis with coal tar ?

Never been recorded ! Because psoriasis as the cause of Syndrome X is
bogus.

DaveW

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Mar 18, 2002, 10:42:23 PM3/18/02
to
Gary wrote:
> "They have the same risk factors." But, they have nothing to do with
> each other, except that they interact with each other -g- You need a
> good psycho-tropic to dream that up.

Well, that's why I did NOT write what you've written, but this kind of
distortion from you is to be expected, I suppose. It looks as though fighting
with straw men is the only way you can convince yourself you are correct. I've
shown that your 'knowledge' of TNFa and fat is a tiny subset of what really
goes on (as shown by your own citations). You completely ignore the fact that
TZDs have modes of action independent of their insulin sensitizing function.
You have yet to provide any evidence that psoriasis gets better when weight is
reduced (or gets worse with a gain in weight). I've told you, over and over,
that "psoriasis as the cause of Syndrome X" has not been my working hypothesis
for a long time (actually, it's NEVER been my working hypothesis, except
according to YOU). You keep spewing these half-truths and outright lies as if
repeating them will make them come true. Get some new material, Gary, 'cause
this junk is stale.

And I will leave the web page up. Your writings on this subject are a textbook
example of what NOT to do to present a logical argument that is both valid and
sound.

evetsm

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Mar 20, 2002, 5:24:42 AM3/20/02
to
stran...@aol.com (DaveW) wrote in message
> And I will leave the web page up.

Excellent ! ( I have made a copy)

LCherensky

unread,
Mar 22, 2002, 11:31:18 PM3/22/02
to
No,
Not everything is natural. I hereby resign from this thread, and good luck.
0 new messages