New Improved Fumarates
Randall
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12973823&dopt=Abstract
Presystemic metabolism and intestinal absorption of antipsoriatic
fumaric acid esters.
Werdenberg D, Joshi R, Wolffram S, Merkle HP, Langguth P.
Department of Applied BioSciences, Swiss Federal Institute of
Technology Zurich, Winterthurerstrasse 190, CH-8057 Zurich,
Switzerland.
Psoriasis is a chronic inflammatory skin disease. Its treatment is
based on the inhibition of proliferation of epidermal cells and
interference in the inflammatory process. A new systemic antipsoriasis
drug, which consists of dimethylfumarate and ethylhydrogenfumarate in
the form of their calcium, magnesium and zinc salts has been
introduced in Europe with successful results. In the present study, a
homologous series of mono- and diesters of fumaric acid has been
studied with respect to the sites and kinetics of presystemic ester
degradation using pancreas extract, intestinal perfusate, intestinal
homogenate and liver S9 fraction. In addition, intestinal permeability
has been determined using isolated intestinal mucosa as well as Caco-2
cell monolayers, in order to obtain estimates of the fraction of the
dose absorbed for these compounds. Relationships between the
physicochemical properties of the fumaric acid esters and their
biological responses were investigated. The uncharged diester
dimethylfumarate displayed a high presystemic metabolic lability in
all metabolism models. It also showed the highest permeability in the
Caco-2 cell model
Fumarates have been mentioned in the group,
Fumaric acid may pull down a few more hits. (over 300!)
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=fumaric+acid&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dalt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
I don't have much to say on this, other then i'd love to take
some without having to go half way around the world.
And why does this stuff cause the stomach ache? Is
that due to some funky gut thing that runs with
the P situation in general?
And will the US FDA make it impossible for us to
ever get it? Once again, support the NPF as they
are working on this for us. Your donations help.
Michel Turner
"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
> And will the US FDA make it impossible for us to
> ever get it? Once again, support the NPF as they
> are working on this for us. Your donations help.
Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
CAMBRIDGE, Mass., Oct. 1 /CNW/ -- Biogen, Inc.
(Nasdaq: BGEN) today announced it has licensed from Fumapharm AG exclusive
rights to develop and market a new oral therapy for psoriasis entering Phase
III clinical trials in Europe. The product is a second-generation fumarate
derivative with an immunomodulatory mechanism of action. A first-generation
product is currently marketed as FUMADERM(R) in Germany, where it is the
leading prescription for oral systemic treatment of moderate-to-severe
psoriasis.
http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=35876637
Regards
JXStern
wrote:
>Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
>
>CAMBRIDGE, Mass., Oct. 1 /CNW/ -- Biogen, Inc.
>(Nasdaq: BGEN) today announced it has licensed from Fumapharm AG exclusive
>rights to develop and market a new oral therapy for psoriasis entering Phase
>III clinical trials in Europe. The product is a second-generation fumarate
>derivative with an immunomodulatory mechanism of action. A first-generation
>product is currently marketed as FUMADERM(R) in Germany, where it is the
>leading prescription for oral systemic treatment of moderate-to-severe
>psoriasis.
>
>http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=35876637
I dunno about the bye-bye bit, the fumaderm is hardly new, has serious
side-effects, and its mechanism of action is still unknown, as far as
Google can tell me.
Any pointer to a good evaluation of what part of the immune system it
seems to affect (what do you have to get tested while taking it?),
would be appreciated.
Maybe we should look for a fumaderm/Amevive treatment? Or maybe
Biogen can really invent a second-generation derivative that is better
and safer (and still oral, too, for good luck??!?) Of course, that
seems unlikely to be available tomorrow.
J.
David Bentley
<JXSternC...@gte.net> writes
>On Mon, 3 Nov 2003 20:09:57 +0100, "Michel Turner" <ap...@arcor.de>
>wrote:
>>Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
>>
>>CAMBRIDGE, Mass., Oct. 1 /CNW/ -- Biogen, Inc.
>>(Nasdaq: BGEN) today announced it has licensed from Fumapharm AG exclusive
>>rights to develop and market a new oral therapy for psoriasis entering Phase
>>III clinical trials in Europe. The product is a second-generation fumarate
>>derivative with an immunomodulatory mechanism of action. A first-generation
>>product is currently marketed as FUMADERM(R) in Germany, where it is the
>>leading prescription for oral systemic treatment of moderate-to-severe
>>psoriasis.
>>
>>http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=35876637
>
>I dunno about the bye-bye bit, the fumaderm is hardly new, has serious
>side-effects,
Such as? I have been on Fumaderm for 8 months now and appart from the
odd flushing episode (lasting only a few minutes) I have been fine. All
my bloods which have been done regularly have been within normal limits.
I grant you that in some people there have been side effects but for me
this has been the best treatment I've had (and I've been on them all)
--
David Bentley
JXStern
wrote:
>>I dunno about the bye-bye bit, the fumaderm is hardly new, has serious
>>side-effects,
>
>Such as? I have been on Fumaderm for 8 months now and appart from the
>odd flushing episode (lasting only a few minutes) I have been fine. All
>my bloods which have been done regularly have been within normal limits.
>
>I grant you that in some people there have been side effects but for me
>this has been the best treatment I've had (and I've been on them all)
Heck if I know, I'm just going by its current position in the
treatment hierarchy and what I read. Of course, that's psoriasis for
ya, different strokes work for different folks. Maybe it's time they
move it a few positions up in the list of things to try. Any idea
what it costs? A lot less than Amevive, I gather. Any idea how long
one can stay on it? Stuff like mtx and neoral tend to have a limit
around two years.
A cyber-penny if you can post just what blood tests they do on you
periodically, esp anything specialized around immune system
categories.
In any case, glad to hear of your success with it.
J.
Randall
> "Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
> > And will the US FDA make it impossible for us to
> > ever get it? Once again, support the NPF as they
> > are working on this for us. Your donations help.
>
>
> Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
Have no fear, i'm not worried! I haven't even said hello
to bioligics so far. My current trials with wheatgrass
juice extract spray may very well eliminate any hope
for a free enbrel study.
I'd love to pop a few tabs of this fumaric acid compound
and take it for a test drive. For a week or three at least.
Is there a loading dose first? How many folks get the stomach
ache? 2 out of 10, 100...?
Do you have any idea when we may be able to us it in
the US?
When the Pasi levels drop to mild does one go off it
or take a smaller dose?
How well does it work in Germany? Are the majority of
psoriatics on it? What are rebounds like? Do they
come back fast, slow or is the drug resumed?
Oh, by the way, thanks for the link.
Hope to hear from you again Michel Turner.
I like good news when its p related. :)
Randall
> treatment hierarchy and what I read. Of course, that's psoriasis for
> ya, different strokes work for different folks. Maybe it's time they
> move it a few positions up in the list of things to try. Any idea
> what it costs?
Hi J,
You could get some pharmacia in Tj mexico to order it.
Looking at a few hundred dollars. Maybe you can find
someone to split it with, should you want to try
it!
I looked around a few years back and couldn't find
it on the shelf.
Randall
> "Michel Turner" <ap...@arcor.de> wrote in message news:<3fa6a805$0$24761$9b4e...@newsread2.arcor-online.net>...
> > "Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
> > Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
>
> Have no fear, i'm not worried! I haven't even said hello
> to biologics so far. My current trials with wheatgrass
> juice extract spray may very well eliminate any hope
> for a free enbrel study.
In order to get it for free, you first have to do a double
blind study and then they comp you the real deal and even
pay you to go thru the study. You do need to be at
least 10% (moderate) to get in.
This brings up the prices of all this stuff. Not everyone
has the time to monkey around with a double blind study!
Biologics-----$10,000 plus per year. Rebounds one year out? or Sooner!
Fumarates......$500 or what? I don't know yet. per year! Rebounds?
Wheatgrass juice extract... cheaper then the above!!! Seems
to keep working and working. Rebound
after stopping i guess. I don't
want to stop for some strange reason.
Randall's whey program...... $15 every two months ~ for the proflora
whey powder. The up front implant is
around $150 and you save about this
much money eating the very bland
recommended diet the next month.
I almost cleared 100% during this
diet. Which brings up more questions
then we both have time for.
How many derms are gonna tell anyone about the last three?
None for right now. As long as we are willing to pay huge
health insurance costs this situation may stay static.
>
> I'd love to pop a few tabs of this fumaric acid compound
> and take it for a test drive. For a week or three at least.
I really wanna know. I'll risk the stomach ache any day of the week.
As i mentioned in another thread i'm not all that comfortable
bringing it into the country illegally. I suppose i could
go to mexico and stay there while i consume it. Or leave it
in the country and go across the border to consume it
periodically.
Doesn't this point out how ridiculous these things can become.
Is the FDA gonna block wheatgrass juice spray some day?
You can get it at any health food store and keep it in
your refrigerator. Just don't let anyone see you putting
it on your skin. Well, to be exact. Your skin may be okay.
IS wheatgrass on the gras list for the FDA? Yes, of course
it is. But not as a treatment for psoriasis. So, there
you go. Buy it for your skin and slop it over onto the p
patches. I'm very careful to not let it get on
the regular skin as it makes it to smooth. lol
I only want it on the p skin that is in the fetal stage
of being normal again. lol
>
> Is there a loading dose first? How many folks get the stomach
> ache? 2 out of 10, 100...?
Hey. You! (sorry i forgot your name) on the stuff in the uK!
Whats the deal on taking this fumaderm?
whats the dosage and how many times a week etc.
>
> Do you have any idea when we may be able to us it in
> the US?
The fda will protect the over $10,000/year drugs market
as it insures their jobs somehow?
Or the jobs of the biologic researchers?
>
> When the Pasi levels drop to mild does one go off it
> or take a smaller dose?
God who cares? Can anyone answer this?
>
> How well does it work in Germany? Are the majority of
> psoriatics on it? What are rebounds like? Do they
> come back fast, slow or is the drug resumed?
Are you still there, Michel?
>
> Oh, by the way, thanks for the link.
>
> Hope to hear from you again Michel Turner.
Still hoping!
>
> I like good news when its p related. :)
> >
> > CAMBRIDGE, Mass., Oct. 1 /CNW/ -- Biogen, Inc.
> > (Nasdaq: BGEN) today announced it has licensed from Fumapharm AG exclusive
> > rights to develop and market a new oral therapy for psoriasis entering Phase
> > III clinical trials in Europe. The product is a second-generation fumarate
> > derivative with an immunomodulatory mechanism of action. A first-generation
> > product is currently marketed as FUMADERM(R) in Germany, where it is the
> > leading prescription for oral systemic treatment of moderate-to-severe
> > psoriasis.
But, if biogen has it, will they slow it down from getting approved
while they develop their own p drugs?
Why does it seem like no cares about the actual patient.
The FDA needs to spend a few million dollars of tax payer's
money to let us know what cool guys they are.
Otherwise i may lose patients.:)
I feel just like JStern! I want to combo my proflora whey,
with FSO, wheatgrass juice and fumaderm.
Hey, i forgot the ALA (alpha lipoic acid) and ALC with
the leptin enhancers like CLA. Maybe i'll go that route
while the FDA fiddles with their paper shufffle.
At least we have the NPF in our corner on this one.
They want to deliver the goods. :)
> >
> > http://finance.lycos.com/qc/news/story.aspx?story=35876637
> >
> > Regards
JXStern
>I feel just like JStern! I want to combo my proflora whey,
>with FSO, wheatgrass juice and fumaderm.
FSO?
J.
Michel Turner
>
> Fumarates......$500 or what? I don't know yet. per year! Rebounds?
270 EUR for 100 tablets. At a dosage of 3 tablets a day it seems to be 270
EUR per month and about 3.500 EUR per year.
Psoriasis comes back after within 4 weeks after stopping the therapy.
........
> > I'd love to pop a few tabs of this fumaric acid compound
> > and take it for a test drive. For a week or three at least.
First results take place after 6 weeks. You have to do blood counts and
other laboratory stuff.
........
> > How well does it work in Germany? Are the majority of
> > psoriatics on it? What are rebounds like? Do they
> > come back fast, slow or is the drug resumed?
>
> Are you still there, Michel?
Yes, I am.
If it works for you it is a very good long term treatment. People take it
much rather than tigason, cyclosporin or mtx. Besides of changes in blood
count there are no severe side effects. Some people are on fumarates for
years.
Regards
Michel
Randall
Here's the bunch on a FSO search in the P NG.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=FSO&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dalt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
I read the first five and besides the one up top, your in another one.
Fifth one down or is it six now? Due to this one!
As to your/mine little grey cells, i'm contemplating a late start with
some of the new drugs/herbs for memory,
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=memantine+aricept&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=wvEnb.58505%24ZH4.9028%40twister.socal.rr.com&rnum=1
Nice cocktail huh? Thirty and forty year olds are gonna be the target
group for the next generation brain aidsmeds. We (you+I) are already
behind the
times and they ain't even out yet. So grab the curcumin, ginko,
ALA, ALC, and get going! Exercise is working some wonders for
me this week and i will keep it up. Rocky's high now! lol
I've had to avoid these smart things to keep my P trials
somewhat clean. I'm doing almost nothing with the exception
of FSO and proflora whey and WGJ and still clearing.
I'm almost knocking on 2-3% now. Its a miracle for this
time of year. I hope i can keep moving in this direction
or hold ground at the very least. I'll be wearing shorts
year round! AWESOME DUDES!
Wearing shorts in the rain. OH just connected on another
memroy aid.
The snow drop stuff, i almost forgot!(googlisms enlighten me)
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=memantine+aricept+galantamine&btnG=Google+Search
Can't leave galantamine (snow drop flower) out,
http://www.galantamine.cc/
This site has it and benfotiamine (good for late onset diabetes
or even a rim shot on reavens syndrome X life style, we all
drift into before senility and the big sleep. (unless your into karma
and rebirth of course. Isn't it wiser to be wiser to shorten the
path to nirvana or the haPPy hunting grounds? Its not the white light
you crave, follow the blue light carol ann!)
Don't be depressed get smart again,
http://www.smart-drugs.com/depression-new-drugs.htm
[snip]
Galantamine, the Unique AchEl
Galantamine has shown to have two methods of action, which make it
special among the current range of AChEl's.
1). It delays the deactivation of the enzyme acetylcholinesterase thus
improving Acetylcholine levels.
2). It also stimulates nicotinic receptors, which may release even
more Acetylcholine.
It is nicotinic stimulation that represents the new area for
AIzheimer's research and it is hoped that this will result in fewer
amyloid plaques which have come to characterize Alzheimer's. They are
microscopic, spherical structures containing deposits of beta-amyloid
peptide, dead and dying neurons and evidence of inflammation. Data
from galantamine trials indicate that improvements have been shown in
cognitive and global scales commonly used to assess the progress of
people with Alzheimer's. Thus galantamine improved functional ability,
memory, and learning ability. While galantamine is specifically
approved as an AIzheimer's drug, it also appears to produce a mild
anti-depressant effect.
Galantamine, the Clinical Trials
Galantamine has been approved in Austria and Sweden for Alzheimer's
disease and it is currently undergoing stage II and stage III clinical
trials in several other countries. In a pivotal US study with 636
Alzheimer's patients, the galantamine group recorded an improvement of
1.7 points while the control group performance declined by 2 points.
Galantamine-Dosages, Contraindications and Side Effects
To date galantamine has not shown any impact upon liver function in
human trials. This is a significant point because most Alzheimer's
treatments negatively affect the liver. One aspect of galantamine's
relative safety may be the fact that it is an extract of the Galanthus
Nivalis plant, a type of snow drop in the daffodil family. To date
most side effects have been limited to increased respiratory function,
dizziness, lowering of heart rate, increased sweat and saliva
production, loss of appetite, nausea, sleep disturbance and headache.
In an overdose case, a lowering of blood pressure and heart rate was
seen.
Galantamine is contraindicated in myocardial infarction, bronchial
asthma, epilepsy, low blood pressure, diabetes, ulcers, gangrene, and
Parkinsonism. The standard dosage has been 5mg twice daily but
dosages as high as 6 tablets (5mg each) daily have been used.
continued...
You may want to buy all this stuff at BAC.
They don't have the best stuff at the lowest prices,
but you're not shopping for R-alpha-lipic acid.
Or are you? You may be in short order.
BAC's web site,
www.beyond-a-century.com (get it?)
You don't want to live that long without mental
faculties. lol
Here's bac's pdf for their line,
http://www.beyond-a-century.com/baccatalog.pdf
Now don't forget to try at least one of these
and still keep your attention on any P clearings.
At the very least do the snow drop and let us know.
You P cocktail and brain smart herbs or drugs could
be a break thru test here and help all those
psors that do well on ssri's. That would be nice.
JXStern
>Here's the bunch on a FSO search in the P NG.
Flax
Seed
Oil
ok fine.
J.
Randall
I just almost busted a gut on this. lol
I couldn't let that first link sit there unadorned.
Now, you almost know why some posts grow to such lengths.
The analogy would be human dna with all that (98%)
extra non coding stuff that appears worthless but
isn't. Riboswitches or what? They can still code
for mRNA but how often and how much in what situations?
Other then that the 2% containing the real deal or
truth, all by itself just looks to stark and naked
by its lonesome in the
cold
hard
world.
In the kobe world he/his team could score 100 points
and still lose by one basket to the other team.
The 2% factor is rather viable in the world
for those with psoriasis depending on severity
and perspective and anything that assualts the
sense of pride is subject to hide the P....
Randall
> > > news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
Hey None,
That fumaderm/fumapharm story was posted back on Nov. 4th, 2003,
here.
Thanks for bringing it back uP as i found a good link to
go along with it. Its down aways, in this post. I'm posting
it here as i wonder who Mr. Michel Turner is and what
he has to do with fumaderm. He only has one post or
so to the newsgroups as revealed by an author search.
How prescient is his next statement?
>
>
Michel Turner said:
> > > Dont worry and say "bye bye" to biologics:
> >
randall said:
> > Have no fear, i'm not worried! I haven't even said hello
> > to biologics so far. My current trials with wheatgrass
> > juice extract spray may very well eliminate any hope
> > for a free enbrel study.
Unless i flare about 6% over where i am now and stay
there, i'm not gonna make the grade for this study. Oh well.
No big deal, i've come to the conclusion.
My Psymmetrical warfare has gone to the grass roots level so to
sPeak and i'm perfectly haPPy with the level of resistance
from the P enemy. The P is losing and Christmas may very well
be one of my best times of the year in a long long time. :)
All i'll need now is a red ryder BB gun for the spots. lol
>
randall said:
> In order to get it for free, you first have to do a double
> blind study and then they comp you the real deal and even
> pay you to go thru the study. You do need to be at
> least 10% (moderate) to get in.
>
> This brings up the prices of all this stuff. Not everyone
> has the time to monkey around with a double blind study!
>
> Biologics-----$10,000 plus per year. Rebounds one year out? or Sooner!
According to this letter coming up, try $14,000 to $24,000 per year!
>
> Fumarates......$500 or what? I don't know yet. per year! Rebounds?
(about $1,100 per year according to this next letter from someone
using it.)
Here is a letter to the LA times today, 30 Nov 2001
You may need a subscription to this link. I feel its important enough
to all of us, that i post the letter in its entirety.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-letters30.2nov30,1,6067280.story?coll=la-headlines-business
LETTERS
A Cheaper and Better Therapy for Psoriasis
Re: "Journal Backs Genentech, Amgen Drugs, "Nov.20, 2003"
The article in the New England Journal of Medicine is a big boost to
these pharmaceutical companies. However, the cost of treatment,
$14,000 to $24,000 per year, puts this therapy out of the reach of
many people.
I have suffered with severe psoriasis for about 30 years. I was
treated with every modality known at the time with no success. About
eight years ago, I heard of an oral therapy used in Germany with great
success. I was able to arrange to take this medication, and in a few
months, I was essentially clear of psoriasis. I am still on this
therapy and still free of the disease.
I take three tablets daily at a cost of less than 50 cents each. They
consist of fumaric acid esters and are the most widely used
therapeutic agent for psoriasis in Germany.
I tried to interest the National Psoriasis Assn. in this agent but got
nowhere.
At a meeting sponsored by Biogen to promote its drug, Amvive, I was
rudely rebuffed when I asked the company to look into marketing
fumaric acid esters. It rejected the request out of hand.
Now Biogen has signed an agreement with Swiss pharmaceutical firm
Fumapharm to develop and market its product in the U.S.
In addition to the lower cost of the fumaric acid ester preparation,
its toxicity profile is much better than any of the biological agents,
all foreign proteins with allergic and carcinogenic potential.
Dr. Sam H. Stone
Woodland Hills
^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^
Holy bat crap! I'd love to know where this doctor (who can't afford
biologics?) is buying his fumaderm! Still .50 cents a tab X 3 a day
x's 30 days a month equals $90 month. I just want to take one
or two a day every other day or so. Maybe $20 a months worth to
supplement my already well thought out methods.
I'm ALREADY winning the Psymmetrical battles very haPPily.
Why can't i put my own plan to-gether without having to fight
the PharmA's, derms and FDA? And the National Psoriasis Assn.
(whats that by the way? the NPF?) is exactly doing what to stop
fumaderm from coming in? And is biogen gonna charge how much for
fumaderm? $5.00 a pill or what?
Well, randall (i) said:
>
> Wheatgrass juice extract... cheaper then the above!!! Seems
> to keep working and working. Rebound
> after stopping i guess. I don't
> want to stop for some strange reason.
>
> Randall's whey program...... $15 every two months ~ for the proflora
> whey powder. The up front implant is
> around $150 and you save about this
> much money eating the very bland
> recommended diet the next month.
> I almost cleared 100% during this
> diet. Which brings up more questions
> then we both have time for.
>
>
>
> How many derms are gonna tell anyone about the last three?
> None for right now. As long as we are willing to pay huge
> health insurance costs this situation may stay static.
> >
[snip]
I wonder what DaveW and Kim (now known as Pfaq?) would have to
say about this. Do you?
How clear are they now? Are they using fumaderm? How about the
1000's of people who've been thru this group at one time or
another. Why haven't any of them reported back on this fumaric
acid esthers and its effects? I for one, would like to Thank
DR.Stone for his letter to the LA times.
Its exactly the kind of info we want. Now, if all those
damned special interests would get the hell out of the
way and let us do our own thing. All of the psoriatics
may have a wonderful Christmas present.
skeatsan''co
"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:df7e2c67.03113...@posting.google.com...
I found a pdf/html report on the safety of fumeric acid by the European
Commission which contained information on both animal and human treatments
with this and the effects on kidneys etc.
Psoriasis treatment is discussed on page 4 of this.
It looks useful if carefully supervised.
http://europa.eu.int/comm/food/fs/sc/scan/out112_en.pdf
---
Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free.
Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com).
Version: 6.0.545 / Virus Database: 339 - Release Date: 27/11/2003
Randall
Correction to last post,
I said:
[snip]I'd love to know where this doctor (who can't afford
biologics?) is buying his fumaderm! Still .50 cents a tab X 3 a day
x's 30 days a month equals $90 month. I just want to take one
or two a day every other day or so. Maybe $20 a months worth to
supplement my already well thought out methods.
^^^^^^^^^^^^^
That would be $45 a month at three .50 cent pills/day.
And $540 a year. My $1,100 a year figure would be closer
figuring in the derm costs.
I'd love to find out how little i could take and still
remain totally clear.
And i looked for Psoriasis National Assn. and really couldn't
find one. He must have meant the NPF. And i thought they
were fighting for the legalization of fumaderm.
Could Dr. Stone have contacted someone in that org that
didn't relay the correct information on this topic?
Randall
Looks more then useful to me. Thanks for this great
informative link, Skeat!
I'd be taking it right now if i could get my hands
on it.
Still, it brings up the question of whether the way to
less psoriasis is dependent upon methylation of CG DNA pairs.
Well, it did to me anyway. I came into this group worried about
nonmethylated cg pairs. What was my chance at correcting that?
I hadn't a clue at the time. I figured then as now that gut
flora was the answer. Now that i see the FAE gets metabolised
in the small intestine, it may be somewhat of a clue.
I have no other trepidations over FAE at the present time.
(Cept for me calling them esthers rather then esters. <g>)
I just don't want to have to fly across the pond and
i'm still wondering how Dr. Stone got his.
Its not like i want to break some dumb law in
order to clear my skin right now, while i'm doing
so well overall with the wheatgrass skin recovery
spray.
Thank-you again for this pdf link. Now, how do we let
the FDA know we want to use the stuff now?
Do we have to toss some bad PR towards the pharms or
what?
skeatsan''co
"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:df7e2c67.03113...@posting.google.com...
> "skeatsan''co" <overt...@wildblue.co.uk> wrote in message
news:<CYryb.17361$Bs.9530@news-fe1>...
> > "Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> wrote in message
> > news:df7e2c67.03113...@posting.google.com...
> > > > > > "Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > > > > > news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
snip
> I just don't want to have to fly across the pond and
> i'm still wondering how Dr. Stone got his.
> Its not like i want to break some dumb law in
> order to clear my skin right now, while i'm doing
> so well overall with the wheatgrass skin recovery
> spray.
>
> Thank-you again for this pdf link. Now, how do we let
> the FDA know we want to use the stuff now?
>
> Do we have to toss some bad PR towards the pharms or
> what?
I think there is too much money involved in the promotion of expensive drugs
and "they" are not interested in a simple remedy that might be inexpensive
if properly developed.
Just me being cynical.
My skin improved greatly when I started on acidophilus and other probiotics
too.
Skeatsan''co
Joerg Boettcher
> And $540 a year. My $1,100 a year figure would be closer
> figuring in the derm costs.
Hi Randall,
maybe you remember me.
When Fumaderm started in 1995 the wholesaler price was near 50 cent each
tablet. Possibly for patients outside Germany that was also the consumer
price. Unfortunately this low price was impossible to maintain since the
costs for marketing and research in the following years were much bigger
than expected.
In the meantime the price has risen to 1,60 EUR/2,70 EUR
(wholesaler/consumer). A average 3 tablets therapy will cost about 250
EUR/month and 3000 EUR/year.
Best regards
Joerg
Randall
> > > > > > > news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
>
>
> I think there is too much money involved in the promotion of expensive drugs
> and "they" are not interested in a simple remedy that might be inexpensive
> if properly developed.
Its easy to be cynical when we are to blame also.
How many rebounds before you say "shame on me"?
"THEY" become us in this dance when we become
complaisant.
No fooling!
We are part of the equation of doctor, insurance and patient.
In this case it takes three or more to tango. Sure there's
an element of greed involved, its business and we're not
in some weak knee'd socialist paradigm that fails to provide
half as much at twice the hassle. Yet, are we not free to
choose? And who's telling us what and for what price?
What if 100 of us right here all tried the wheatgrass recovery spray?
(WGJ spray) And got the same results as Chuck and i?
We could change the P world! At this point there's only
two apostles (i should say zealots now <G>) preaching
the grassy gospel of topical wheatgrass sprout extract.
Do you have any idea how many flaky things i've tried?
I'm positive that Dr. Chris Reynolds
( http://www.wheatgrassprofessional.info )
was just as perplexed as i was after his first experience
with the healing powers of simple wheatgrass juice.
We were both very skeptical and then witnessed
how simple and elegant it worked and got hooked.
Use it and be astounded too.
The fact that he's providing this healing
product to the world has to be indicative of his
dedication to medicine for everyone, cheaPer.
I truly believe now that this WGJ product has the potential
to save lives all around the world, besides helping
slow the march of P flakery.
How low tech and cheaP is WGJ extract? How come people aren't
jumping all over it? They want costly star war medicines or what?
Lets shoot our skin with lazer beams from the heads of
man eating sharks for criPes sakes. lol
Isn't the most practical tool in the toolbox the most elegant
for the P job, till the big P DNA fix comes along in the future?
Sure, i've wanted to hit my P with a hammer now and then.
Who hasn't?
This morning i used wheatgrass recovery spray instead.
If i had some FAE i may have taken a tab or two,
after a visual assessment of my P situation.
And the proflora whey would and will be used when
my P is long gone, as its so good for the overall
well being in general.
>
> Just me being cynical.
Change your perspective and get haPPy.
After millions of psoriatics get clearer, i still
won't rest knowing there are more that can
benefit from gut and skin grassroot efforts.
Who wouldn't want to know the choices available?
We can change the insurance industry and force the
costs down. If someone doesn't want to take
care of themselves thats their choice, but
why should i suffer the high priced consequences
in the form of high premiums and exorbitant health
fees for everyone in the daisy chain?
We will in essence be saying to the insurance industry
we won't pay for someone elses stupidity and
either will you. First we need to stop our stupidity.
How many of us at $14-$24,000 a pop should someone who is
healthy be willing to pay their insurer for?
When the biologic doesn't even cure you for longer
then a year or so? How long can that go on?
>
> My skin improved greatly when I started on acidophilus and other probiotics
> too.
And i'll bet your much more in tune with your diet in general
after you started to take responsibility for your health.
Even a little delicious cheating once in a while is
more tolerated when you know your levels of tolerance.
Randall
> > That would be $45 a month at three .50 cent pills/day.
> > And $540 a year. My $1,100 a year figure would be closer
> > figuring in the derm costs.
>
> Hi Randall,
>
> maybe you remember me.
Yes. How are you? I hope all is well.
Didn't we share some emails a few years back?
I may have seen your post to the group in 2000.
Or found it on the web.
I was probably thinking at the time, how i could get your products
into a Mexican Pharmacia near me.
Or maybe i only hinted at that. :)
>
> When Fumaderm started in 1995 the wholesaler price was near 50 cent each
> tablet. Possibly for patients outside Germany that was also the consumer
> price. Unfortunately this low price was impossible to maintain since the
> costs for marketing and research in the following years were much bigger
> than expected.
>
> In the meantime the price has risen to 1,60 EUR/2,70 EUR
> (wholesaler/consumer). A average 3 tablets therapy will cost about 250
> EUR/month and 3000 EUR/year.
Then, Dr. Stone must have recieved a ten year supply back when it
was ,60 EUR? Or he's gotten his hands on a time machine.
Did you have a hand in that fumaderm/fumapharm pdf link?
Excellent information and i still need to read the last few pages.
Btw, do you know what the NPF is doing to bring in Fumaderm
to the US?
Thanks for the price info. Now, if we could just get it here.
Any ideas on that, Joerg?
>
> Best regards
Thanks again!
Randall
> > > > "Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> schrieb im Newsbeitrag
> > > > news:df7e2c67.0311...@posting.google.com...
Hi,
>
> Here is a letter to the LA times today, 30 Nov 2001
GAil Zimmerman, CEO of The NPF answers it down below. Scrool on
down if you don't need to refresh your memory.
============================================================
This is the NPF answer to Doctor Stone.
http://www.latimes.com/business/la-fi-letters14.1dec14,1,4957733.story?coll=la-headlines-business
(You may need a free subscription for this link)
Psoriasis Group Supports New Options
"A Cheaper and Better Therapy for Psoriasis" (Letters, Nov. 30) told
only part of the story
Far from being indifferent to it, the National Psoriasis Foundation
has been trying to generate U.S. interest in fumaric acid esters since
1985 and provided advice to its European manufacturer back in 1996. We
are thrilled that Biogen Idec has licensed the next generation of this
product for the United States, so we can learn more about this drug
and finally see whether it can bring relief to Americans with
psoriasis who are looking for additional treatment options.
Gail Zimmerman
President and CEO
National Psoriasis
Foundation
Portland, Ore.
=======================================================
OK, ok
I want some FAE yesterday. Thanks to Bill or whomever posted
his story from the UK on it recently. The drug sounds like
a absolute dream i wish i had last nite.
I'm itching to get it. That it that feels so... you know. :)
When does this drug go generic anyway? Does that happen in the rest
of the world the way it does in the uS?
I'd be happy to take the first generaton FAE's for a test
drive. At generic prices i may be able to work it into
my regime.
Then i'd be able to afford a trip to Munich to see Joerg
first hand! And try the newer FAE's. No stomach ache with
those. No stomachion in this P puzzle.
Izabela Dorota Grande
Im from Norway and have Psoriasis. I try a cream so have the name of
Psorisan, so a corp in Norway have. This cream is so far the best I have try
ever. And i amost good now. I recomand ewerybody to try this cream. I only
have the mailadress to this Corp.
har...@grande.as (Psorisan Cream)
Terje Hagen
Bergen/Norway
"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> skrev i melding
news:df7e2c67.03121...@posting.google.com...