Primrose oil and Borage oil
mike
psoriasis is gone.... Has anyone else tried this? Unbelievable... This is
the first natural remedy that I have found that actually does work..
mike
mike
http://www.egregore.com/diseases/psoriasis.html
I feel much calmer on this stuff too....Maybe its an anti-depressant too or
something..
Nutrients
Unsaturated fatty acids (primrose oil), 1 capsule 3 times per day, important
to all skin disorders, it aids in preventing dryness. Proteolytic enzymes,
taken between meals, stimulates protein synthesis and repair. Vitamin A
emulsion, 50,000 IU (or capsules). is essential for healthy skin and nails.
Vitamin B complex, 50 mg. 3 times per day, is necessary in all cellular
functions, is an antistress vitamin and helps to maintain healthy skin.
Vitamin C, 2,000-10,000 mg. per day, is important for collagen and
connective tissue. Vitamin D, 400-1,000 IU per day, is needed for healing of
skin and for calcium uptake. Vitamin E emulsion, taken as directed on the
label, neutralizes free radicals that damage the skin. Kelp, 5 tablets per
day, supplies balanced minerals and is a good source of iodine. Zinc, 50-100
mg. per day, metabolism of protein (needed for healing). Lecithin, 2
capsules per day, protects the cells. Multivitamin and mineral complex with
magnesium and calcium chelate, taken as directed on the label, is needed for
basic vitamins and minerals.
Crazy4indy
JRStern
wrote:
>After a week of taking moderate doses of primrose oil and borage oil my
>psoriasis is gone.... Has anyone else tried this? Unbelievable... This is
>the first natural remedy that I have found that actually does work..
I've been preaching evening primrose oil (EPO) for several years here.
For me, it (a) reduced scratch/bleed business by 80%+, (b) eliminated
some irritable bowel symptoms, (c) completely cleared my nails and
keeps them clear, (d) generally soothes other patches, and (e)
eliminates the few pa twinges I get. However, it did not *clear* any
other patches for me. I'm happy that you had better luck.
The funny thing is, that recently I've been doing some dietary things,
of which (a) eating eggs and (b) eating coconut, seem to be the most
significant. With those, I can stop the EPO and the scratch/bleed is
reduced like 99%, ... and adding in the EPO causes the scratch/bleed
to increase slightly. But, the eggs & coconut don't seem to keep the
nails clear or the pa away, so I have to try to add in a little EPO,
.. I'm still balancing it all.
Weird stuff, this psoriasis, but thanks for posting another story
about EPO. I only wish the serious medical researchers would get on
this in a big way, who knows, they might find a way to make the
results better for more people.
J.
JRStern
wrote:
>I feel much calmer on this stuff too....Maybe its an anti-depressant too or
>something..
Yup. I think that either it's a (very) mild euphoric on its own, or
else when it relieves the symptoms, we just feel that much better!
J.
mike
of......Maybe thats why it was working so good..... Was taking like 5000mg's
a day.... psoriasis is gone....
"Crazy4indy" <crazy...@cs.com> wrote in message
news:20020131183351...@mb-cj.news.cs.com...
> what are moderate doses?
mike
week... I was actually taking like 5000mg primrose , 4000 mg borage , and
2000 E.F.A. Essential fatty acids....... Primrose seemed to do all the work
though.....
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c59d726...@news.gte.net...
mike
have been taking so much...
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c59d726...@news.gte.net...
JRStern
wrote:
>Try taking 5000 mg's a day........ You'll clear up everywhere in like a
>week... I was actually taking like 5000mg primrose , 4000 mg borage , and
>2000 E.F.A. Essential fatty acids....... Primrose seemed to do all the work
>though.....
Hmm, ... I never tried more than about 1500mg per day, and it didn't
seem to do anything more than 500, or even 500mg just a couple of
times a week.
Well, that's something to try, I guess. I'll try to baseline some of
my other stuff and try upping the dose for a few days. I often see
something like 3000mg/day recommended, so 5000mg isn't that
outrageous.
One question -- can you give me an idea of what else you would eat on
an average day? Especially, what other kinds of fats?
J.
mike
the sugar, yeast , carbs etc...... You can have some but not too
much.......In my case I would flare up when consuming sugar, yeast, or
carbs...
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c5abfdf...@news.gte.net...
JRStern
wrote:
>beef , pork , turkey , chicken is ok........and vegtables... Stay away from
>the sugar, yeast , carbs etc...... You can have some but not too
>much.......In my case I would flare up when consuming sugar, yeast, or
>carbs...
Thanks.
J.
Sad Man
Mike,
Would you mind telling us........
1. What kind of P you had?
2. How extensive it was?
3. Have you ever cleared like this in the past for unknown reasons?
This is exciting. You don't see too many "complete" clearing stories
around these here parts. Congrats !
Sad Man
I've just read your other thread about using other natural
remedies for boosting you testosterone. Is there a chance that your
clearing has something to do with one of the OTHER supplements that
your taking? Just wondering?
Carol Wyche
moderate dose by the way. Maybe I should try the massive dose approach.
Carol
mike <mike111...@yahoo.com> wrote:
--
Carol Wyche
here. But seriously, good for you. If something works, keep it up.
Carol
mike <mike111...@yahoo.com> wrote:
--
JRStern
>Mike,
> Would you mind telling us........
>1. What kind of P you had?
>2. How extensive it was?
>3. Have you ever cleared like this in the past for unknown reasons?
>
all good questions.
J.
mike
elbows , knees , lower back , groin area ,legs , ears, around the eyes .....
I also have the arthritis part....psoriatic arthritis.... And the primrose
takes the pain away aswell !!! And no the testosterone pills do not make a
difference.. Because I have cleared previously aswell just using the
primrose , borage oil... HIGH DOSES though.... Until someone tells me I
shouldnt be taking such high doses, I will continue doing this... My nails
are totally clear..... JRstern is very correct.... If anything you will
definately see an improvement in your nails.... Like i said i think its
mostly the primrose oil...But i am taking it with the borage oil aswell...
I'm taking 6000 to 7000 mg's a day now of primrose... The recommended
amount is only like 3000MG's.. But i have not read even one statement that
says its dangerous to go higher........ Guys, please tell me how it works
for you after 3 or 4 days.... Thats all you really need to start seeing
initial improvements... You'll probably feel more relaxed too because it
has anti-depressant qualities.
mike
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c5c4e12...@news.gte.net...
Randall
I tried them to over the years, no help.
Of course a tablespoon of FSO taken once a day does
everything for my p that you (mikeandJR) claim for yours.
I guess thats from the w6's in the flax with
all those w3's? Nope.... its the omega 3's not heavy w6 primrose
and borage oils.
Gosh, P is a rather small subset of the population at large.
Like what? 2.6% or so? And putting us on a bell curve
would help to clarify severity. So what subset are you,
JR and mike1111, in? You may need to define a new one.
Special P, resonds positive to a known inflamation inducer?
I wonder if we got flax without any omega 6, only
omega3 if we would clear even faster? NOw i'd call that lorenzo's
oil. And not some more ubiquitous omega 6, as soybean oil
is loaded with it and is flare city for most normal P's.
Oh yes, the abnormal ones too. Unless quackery is the du jour item.
You know MIke i was alot like you when i was your age.
Only, if i had found me back then, i wouldn't have made
the same mistakes or lived in ignorance of P, so long!
Furthermore, you two should be sent to your room. Or at
the very least made to stand (quietly) in the corner.
Good day,
randall.. wesson oil is omega 6 and is good for something? Partys over?
JRStern
>Gosh, P is a rather small subset of the population at large.
>Like what? 2.6% or so? And putting us on a bell curve
>would help to clarify severity. So what subset are you,
>JR and mike1111, in? You may need to define a new one.
>Special P, resonds positive to a known inflamation inducer?
No, no, no -- just counting the n3 and n6 is way insufficient. The
presumed reason why primrose oil does something and wesson oil does
not, is that it has this gamma linolenic acid specifically which
promotes anti-inflammatory prostaglandins and suppresses the
processing of arachidonic acid. The conversion of AA to inflammatory
thromboxanes and leukotrienes can also be suppressed by quercetin and
other bioflavinoids. Maybe all the tea I drink is sufficient to
insulate me from the effects of normal amounts of AA, who knows.
There's a lovely chart in the book "Beyond Cortisone", author Martha
Moore, that talks about this. I've looked for more, and seen a
slightly more involved one in a $90 medical book. Apparently some
guy(s) got the Nobel prize for working it out back in the 1950s.
However, it's clear that, complex as the chart is, there are zillions
of other interactions that nobody has yet figured out.
I had an online pointer to a similar chart once, let's see if I can
find it, (jeopardy music plays ...),
Nope. This has a little, this is only about a third of the chart, but
has some other info:
http://www.enerex.bc.ca/omega_6_and_3.htm
These are the usual kind of thing you find:
http://www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/omega6.php3
http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsSupplements/Omega6FattyAcidscs.html
Randall, I recommend you lay hands on that book.
J.
mike
mike
"Randall" <ranh...@aol.com> wrote in message
news:df7e2c67.02020...@posting.google.com...
Randall
> On 2 Feb 2002 14:04:06 -0800, ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:
> >Gosh, P is a rather small subset of the population at large.
> >Like what? 2.6% or so? And putting us on a bell curve
> >would help to clarify severity. So what subset are you,
> >JR and mike1111, in? You may need to define a new one.
> >Special P, resonds positive to a known inflamation inducer?
>
> No, no, no -- just counting the n3 and n6 is way insufficient. The
> presumed reason why primrose oil does something and wesson oil does
> not, is that it has this gamma linolenic acid specifically which
> promotes anti-inflammatory prostaglandins and suppresses the
> processing of arachidonic acid. The conversion of AA to inflammatory
> thromboxanes and leukotrienes can also be suppressed by quercetin and
> other bioflavinoids. Maybe all the tea I drink is sufficient to
> insulate me from the effects of normal amounts of AA, who knows.
Been investigating that effect myself. With ginger and half and half.
>
> There's a lovely chart in the book "Beyond Cortisone", author Martha
> Moore, that talks about this. I've looked for more, and seen a
> slightly more involved one in a $90 medical book. Apparently some
> guy(s) got the Nobel prize for working it out back in the 1950s.
> However, it's clear that, complex as the chart is, there are zillions
> of other interactions that nobody has yet figured out.
There are 35K interactions per sec in the average cell. I'm concerned
with
the rube goldberg misfire pathwey gone wrong in particular. If your
sure
that GLA does what you say without omega 3 to carry the water then
i'm surprised.
>
> I had an online pointer to a similar chart once, let's see if I can
> find it, (jeopardy music plays ...),
>
> Nope. This has a little, this is only about a third of the chart, but
> has some other info:
> http://www.enerex.bc.ca/omega_6_and_3.htm
Ok, i'll go fetch a snippet. Here it is... seems to be in sync with
what i've said. This first one is a toss. If you think 23% is good
for a "low fat" then they really didn't know how to design this one
to generate true results.
*********************
PSORIASIS
Researchers in Denmark have successfully treated patients with
psoriasis vulgaris with a low-fat diet supplemented with FISH OIL.
Only 23% of such patients did not reported either excellent, moderate
or mild improve- ments in their condition. A number of patients did
not show improvement until supplemented for at least four months. This
may indicate the importance of allowing adequate time for clinical
improvement after initiating FISH OIL therapy.
FISH OILS may improve psoriasis due to changes in inflammatory
leukotriene compounds, particularly leukotriene B4, which is a
lipoxygenation product of arachidonic acid, and is believed to be
involved in the inflammatory process associated with psoriasis. In
essence, the EPA in FISH OIL replaces arachidonic acid in
phospholipids resulting in the formation of leukotriene B5 rather than
B4, hence the weaker inflammatory response.
RAYNAUD'S DISEASE
(Raynaud's phenomenon)
In Raynaud's disease there is an intermittent bilateral attack of
ischemia (periodic cessation of blood flow and blood pressure) of the
fingers, toes, or even the ears and nose. The disease afflicts females
more often than males. Raynaud's phenomenon is intermittent, often
accompanied by paresthesia and pain, and brought on by cold or
emotional stimuli. It can usually be relieved with heat. When the
condition is idiopathic or primary, it is termed Raynaud's disease.
In 1989, researchers reported results from a double-blind
placebo-controlled trial showing Raynaud's disease may benefit from
FISH OIL (12 FISH OIL capsules containing nearly 4 grams of EPA and
2.64 grams of docosa- hexaenoic acid (DHA). The time interval before
onset of Raynaud's phenomenon, especially in those with primary
Raynaud's phenomenon, was significantly increased in those patients
taking FISH OIL, versus those subjects taking placebo (olive oil).
Even more impressive was finding that 5 of 11 patients did not develop
any Raynaud's symptoms after 6 or 12 weeks of FISH OIL supplementation
when exposed to cold water baths. By comparison, this favourable
response was only seen in 1 of 9 patients receiving olive oil
(placebo). Whether these findings will similarly benefit patients with
secondary Raynaud's phenomenon requires further study.
Balanced Ratio of GLA - EPA/DHA
As this article illustrates, both Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids are
essential for optimal health, and a lack of either one or both can
lead to many disease conditions.
While there is no clear-cut scientific consensus of the correct
balance between the Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids, we can look to
nature to obtain guidelines on this important question. All the
comparative data from various species show a predominance of the
Omega-6 fatty acids over the Omega-3. Since the Omega-3 fatty acids
are preferentially metabolised in the body, a ratio of 4:1 in favour
of the Omega-6 fatty acids will insure a balanced composition at the
cellular level. Such a ratio would be applicable when the parent
acids, linoleic acid (w6 series) and alpha-linolenic acid (w3 series)
are the predominant constituents in the diet. On the other hand, the
longer chain derivatives such as gamma- linolenic acid (GLA),
dihomo-gamma- linolenic acid (DGLA), arachidonic acid (AA) and
eicosapentaenoic acid (EPA) are biologically more active and are
incorporated into cell structure more efficiently. Also, the EPA is
preferentially incorporated into cell membranes at the expense of AA.
In situations where these longer chain polyunsaturated fatty acids are
provided in the diet as food supplements, a ratio of 1:1 between GLA
and EPA/DHA would be desirable to ensure a correct balance at the
cellular level.
Food & Supplements
EPO contains gamma-linolenic acid (GLA), a substance not found in
substantial amounts in any other food. Contrary to popular belief,
human milk contains very little GLA but does contain DGLA, an
intermediate in the production of prostaglandin PGE1. FISH OILS,
specially salmon, mackerel and herring, contain the Omega-3 fatty
acids EPA, the direct precursor for prostaglandin PGE3, and DHA which
is vital for brain development and, in adults, the functions of brain,
nerves, vision, hearing, adrenal (stress) glands and sperm formation.
Foods rich in Essential Fatty Acids include: EPO (72% pure
cis-linoleic acid and 10% gamma-linolenic acid), sunflower seed oil,
safflower and corn oil, liver, kidneys, brains, sweetbreads, lean
meats, legumes, green vegetables, fish (particularly oil fish such as
salmon, herring, mackerel and cod which are rich in EPA/DHA),
shellfish, fish liver oils and linseeds. EPO is very rich in essential
fatty acids, and belongs to the linoleic family. Choose cold-pressed
oils where the natural anti-oxidants have not been removed. Vegetable
and seed oils are most beneficial when eaten uncooked. Certain
vitamins and minerals participate in the EFA to prostaglandin
conversion process. Enzymes in your body work as catalysts to the
conversion and these enzymes are ineffective without these nutrients.
These nutrients are vitamins B6, C and B3 (niacin), and the minerals
magnesium and zinc. Vitamin E and selenium are also essential.
Needs vary greatly from person to person: Estimates are that from
10-20 % of the daily caloric intake should be in the form of EFA's in
order to maintain optimum health. Avoid processed foods, those made
with palm or coconut oil and those high in saturated fats (fatty
meats, cream, milk, butter, cheese, etc.).
Conclusion
Both Evening Primrose Oil and Borage Oil contain substantial amounts
of GLA (up to 25% in the best supplements). EPO is one of the few
plants to have this vital ingredient with no toxic properties. EPO is
available in 1000 mg gelatine capsules of pure cold pressed,
solvent-free oil.
Salmon Oil capsules containing 18% EPA and 12% EHA are also available
in 1000 mg capsules.
Omega 3-6 capsules provide both Omega-3 and Omega-6 fatty acids from a
blend of Primrose oil, Borage oil and Salmon oil in the ideal 1:1
ratio in one 750 mg capsule.
The majority of research carried out worldwide shows that the ideal
level of GLA to be approximately 240 mg daily, plus 240 mg EPA/DHA
daily
This amount can be provided in :
* 2 or 3 - 1000 mg EPO capsules plus
* 1 - 1000 mg Salmon Oil capsule.
or
* 3 - Omega 3-6 capsules
EFA supplements should be taken daily with meals. They are not meant
to be used as a replacement for essential fatty acid requirements but
should be used as supplementation to a diet to ensure adequate levels
of these important metabolites.
*****************
This seems to validate omega 3's far more then the w-6's as to my whey
of thinking.
>
> These are the usual kind of thing you find:
> http://www.fatsforhealth.com/library/libitems/omega6.php3
> http://www.healthandage.com/html/res/com/ConsSupplements/Omega6FattyAcidscs.html
>
> Randall, I recommend you lay hands on that book.
I will check these later. Got any pubmed or real scientific stuff?
There are loads of cites on that www.flax.com site i posted on the
nonono
posts.
Of course i could find that book or just get the best GLA supplement
on the
market and eat em with my dietary guidelines to see from a empirical
point of view.
thanks for your truly sincere efforts on this one.
randall... these pathweys are a real itch at times.
>
> J.
Crazy4indy
Randall
> Did you ride in one of those small yellow buses when you were younger?
No_did you?
Randall
> >Gosh, P is a rather small subset of the population at large.
> >Like what? 2.6% or so? And putting us on a bell curve
> >would help to clarify severity. So what subset are you,
> >JR and mike1111, in? You may need to define a new one.
> >Special P, resonds positive to a known inflamation inducer?
>
> No, no, no -- just counting the n3 and n6 is way insufficient. The
> presumed reason why primrose oil does something and wesson oil does
> not, is that it has this gamma linolenic acid specifically which
> promotes anti-inflammatory prostaglandins and suppresses the
> processing of arachidonic acid. The conversion of AA to inflammatory
> thromboxanes and leukotrienes can also be suppressed by quercetin and
> other bioflavinoids. Maybe all the tea I drink is sufficient to
> insulate me from the effects of normal amounts of AA, who knows.
I have to agree with P-450 cytochrome effects as being beneficial for
less expression of the effects of omega6's>COX2's>psoriasis increase.
>
> There's a lovely chart in the book "Beyond Cortisone", author Martha
> Moore, that talks about this. I've looked for more, and seen a
> slightly more involved one in a $90 medical book. Apparently some
> guy(s) got the Nobel prize for working it out back in the 1950s.
> However, it's clear that, complex as the chart is, there are zillions
> of other interactions that nobody has yet figured out.
And evetsm has a $150 Book on Syndrome X on his X page.
A $150 here & there and one could just do the whole whey and
get really clear as to what flares one.
Nevertheless, after doing whole whey one can eat alot more
omega 6 fatty acids and not flare nearly as much.
Arachidonic acids sadly still do their job quite well, as to
epidermis shenanigans. Avoidance of porkery, spammery and
hams is still required till a real cure comes down the
prim rose path. Not to invalidate some positive effects
you receive from GLA. Who knows maybe that is the mechanism
that will clue us in to the cure.
>
> I had an online pointer to a similar chart once, let's see if I can
> find it, (jeopardy music plays ...),
>
> Nope. This has a little, this is only about a third of the chart, but
> has some other info:
> http://www.enerex.bc.ca/omega_6_and_3.htm
I went and grabed up a w3 & w6 post that says it alll for me.
***************
What is the structural difference between omega-3 and omega-6
fattyacids?Omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids differ in the number and
placement of thedouble bonds on their carbon chains. Omega-3 fatty
acids have their firstdouble bond three carbon molecules from the end
of the carbon chain;omega-6 fatty acids have their first double bond
six carbon molecules fromthe endof the carbon chain. This placement
gives them their respective names. Theterm "omega-6 fatty acid" is an
abbreviated way of saying, "this is afatty acidwhose first double bond
occurs 6 carbon atoms from the end of themolecule."5. How do omega-3
and omega-6 fatty acids influence your health?New research shows that
omega-3 and omega-6 fatty acids can have profoundand opposite effects
on your health, a subject that is discussed in detailinThe Omega Diet.
For example, omega-3 fatty acids block inflammatorydiseases such as
arthritis and colitis while omega-6 fatty acids maypromote
them.Omega-3 fatty acids reduce your risk of cancer while omega-6
fatty acidsmay increase it. Omega-3 fatty acids are linked with a low
risk ofAlzheimer'sdisease while omega-6 fatty acids are linked with an
increased risk. Formore information (and study citations), please
refer to our book.6. Which oils are relatively high in omega-3 fatty
acids and omega-6 fattyacids?The following chart groups oils according
to their relative EFA content.(For convenience sake, oils that are
relatively high in omega-3 fattyacids arereferred to as "omega-3" oils
and those that are relatively high inomega-6 fatty acids are referred
to as "omega-6" oils.)Omega-3 OilsOmega-6OilsFish OilCorn OilFlaxseed
OilSafflower OilCanola OilSunflower Seed OilWalnut OilCottonseed
OilSoybean Oil(Note: Soybean oil is higher inomega-6 fatty acids than
mostomega-3 oils, so it belongs in bothcategories.)Soybean Oil7. What
is the ideal ratio of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids?A wealth of new
studies, both in humans and animals, shows that optimalhealth comes
from eating a balance of omega-6 to omega-3 fatty acids thatis
lessthan four. In other words, you should be eating less than four
times asmany omega-6 as omega-3 fatty acids. The typical western diet
containsfrom 14 to20 times more omega-6 than omega-3 fatty acids,
upsetting a criticalbalance. To eat a more balanced ratio, you should
limit your intake ofoils such ascorn, safflower, sunflower, and
soybean oils which contain relatively highamounts of omega-6 fatty
acids. Meanwhile, you should eat more foods richinomega-3 fatty
acids.8. What are the best food sources of omega-3 fatty acids?Fatty
fish such as salmon, tuna, mackerel, trout, sardines, and bluefishare
very rich in omega-3 fatty acids (in particular, docosahexaenoic,
DHA,andeicosapentanoic acid, EPA.) Lean fish such as cod, soul, and
floundercontain far less of these vital nutrients. A plant-based form
of omega-3fatty acids(alpha-linolenic or ALA) is found in walnuts,
Brazil nuts, flaxseeds,flaxseed oil, canola oil, and dark green leafy
vegetables. (Olive oil,although not high inomega-3 fatty acids itself,
increases the omega-3 fatty acid content ofyour cells.) Table showing
fatty acid content of common foods.9. Do fish oil supplements or other
supplements containing omega-3 fattyacids offer the same benefits as
eating fatty fish?Most of the scientific studies concerning omega-3
fatty acids haveutilized fish oil supplements, not whole fish.
Therefore, most of theproven health benefitscan be achieved by taking
the supplements. Fish, however, has nutrients inaddition to omega-3
fatty acids (such as selenium) which offer additionalbenefits.10. How
much omega-3 fatty acids should you consume on a daily basis?Ideally,
your diet should supply at least 1 gram of EPA plus DHA per day,either
from food sources or supplements. (If you are taking
supplements,notethat the amount of EPA plus DHA per capsule varies
considerably from brandto brand. You may get all you need from 2
capsules, or you may need totake as many as 5.)11. Can you get the
same benefits from taking flaxseed oil?Your body converts LNA, the
omega-3 fatty acid found in flaxseed oil, intothe longer chain
molecules, EPA and DHA. However, the conversion can beinefficient.
Studies show that it can take as much as ten times as muchLNA to
produce an equivalent amount of EPA and DHA. Therefore you need totake
considerably more flaxseed oil than fish oil. Also, some groups
ofpeople may have greater difficulty converting LNA into EPA/DHA,
includingpremature infants, older people in general, and diabetics.
********************************
Now, how does GLA and omega 6, a proinflammatory component, clear you?
randall... just the facts, hey, where did friday go?
JRStern
>Now, how does GLA and omega 6, a proinflammatory component, clear you?
Doncha just love all this amateur bioscience!?!??!?
OK, why not, let me explain it to you! EPO/GLA is both a pro- and
anti- inflammatory, and for me, apparently the anti- is more
pronounced when I directly consume GLA. That's it. Here's some
detail.
Because part of omega 6 metabolism is to *balance* pro- and ANTI-
inflammatories. According to this book, there is a chain:
omega6 -> linoleic acid ->
gamma linolenic acid (GLA) ->
(promoted by b6, mg, zn insulin)
dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid ->
PREFERRED PATHWAY
PG-1 ANTI-inflammatory prostaglandins
(promoted by vitaims C, b3)
phospholipase pathway
(inhibited by steroids, licorice, chamomile, ...)
arachidonic acid (which can of course come from diet directly)
cyclo-oxygenase pathway
(inhibited by aspirin,ginger,garlic,onions(quercetin))
PG-2 inflammatory prostaglandins
thromboxanes (inflammatory)
lipoxygenase pathway
(inhibited by quercetin etc)
leokotrines (inflammatory)
omega3 -> ALA -> EPA -> PG-3 ANTI-inflammatory prostaglandins
Apparently, for me, extra omega-3 does not produce any more PG-3's,
but extra GLA *does* produce extra PG-1's, more so than any extra bad
PG-2's I get. Or so it seems.
Let me google some more. Aha, better results today! I have not read
all of these completely, but they are indicative.
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dgla+lipoxygenase+prostaglandin+antiinflammatory
-----------------------------
http://www.canolainfo.org/html/bibliography/biblio0.html
This one shows the PG-1 tree I referred to above:
When humans consume DGLA (from GLA), ALA, EPA and/or DHA, these fatty
acids are incorporated into the cell membranes within and around the
cells of the body. They partially replace AA and also compete with AA
for cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase activities. Hence the ingestion of
these fatty acids can result in decreased production of PGE2, TXB2 and
LTB4.
-----------------------------
Here's something very long that might be relevant, tho it does not
seem to mention PG-1s. If you have the time and expertise to read it,
please let us know what it says!
http://www.mdheal.org/fatty.htm
-----------------------------
http://www.bioriginal.com/scientific_support/bibliography/skinfunction.html
(several studies, mixed results, this one looks positive and
interesting)
BTW, the site is a grower of primrose and borage oils, also supplies
fish oils!
http://www.bioriginal.com/index.html
Ziboh, V. A. 1998. Lipoxygenation of gamma-linolenic acid by skin
epidermis: Modulation of epidermal inflammatory/hyperproliferative
processes. Proc. Annual Meeting of the Amer. Oil Chemists’ Soc. P. 25.
(BIO #11296) † New.
GLA, is a D -6 desaturase metabolite of LA. When taken orally, GLA has
been reported to exert clinical efficacy on a variety of diseases,
such as atopic eczema, and the suppression of acute and chronic
inflammation. A notable feature of dietary GLA in the epidermis is its
in vivo elongation to DGLA followed by its oxidative metabolism via
either the cycloxygenase pathway to 1-series prostaglandin (PGE1) or
by 15-lipoxygenase into 15-hydroxy-eicosatrienoic acid (15-HETrE).
This hydroxy FA has been reported to exert antiinflammatory/
antiproliferative effects in vitro and in vivo. To delineate a
possible mechanism for these effects, 15-HETrE was generated by
15-lipoxygenation of DGLA; after initial incorporation into
phosphotidylinositol 4,5-bisphophate followed by phospholipase
C-catalyzed hydrolysis a substituted 15-HETrE-DAG
(1-acyl-2-15-HETrE-sn-glycerol) was generated. The effect of this
novel putative 15-HETrE-DAG was tested in vitro on epidermal total PKC
and PKC-isozymes that were shown previously to be elevated during
epidermal hyperproliferation. The data revealed that 15-HETrE-DAG
inhibited diolein-activated total PKC in a dose-dependent manner.
Further evaluation of effects on the two major epidermal PKC (PKC-a
and PKC-b), revealed that 15-HETrE-DAG selectively inhibited PKC-b,
while the effect on PKC-a was negligible. Since PKC-b is upregulated
during epidermal hyperproliferation, suppression of its expression and
activity suggest that dietary GLA may function to attenuate
inflammatory/hyperproliferative processes by generating
15-HETrE/15-HETrE-DAG. (Authors’ abstract)
--
Maybe psoriasis is NOT caused by any oversupply of pro-inflammatories,
maybe it is entirely a lack of ANTI-inflammatories.
Randall, you've said it yourself, if it was as easy as just counting
n3/n6, we'd all have been cured centuries ago.
BTW, there was some news a few months ago about n3's, that found much
better clearing for something or other, if only one of the two
normally mixed marine-based n3's was used, ... but unfortunately,
nobody knows how to separate them at reasonable cost. Again, you
cannot just count the n3 and n6.
BTW#2, since I have gone the coconut route, I *have* noticed that even
an extra dose of salad dressing causes me a slight flare. There's
your n6 doing bad stuff, I think. And as I've said before, ONLY since
going with the coconut, have I noticed that *besides* its good
effects, my old friend the EPO does seem to cause some bad symptoms in
the area of bleeding. So, I think I am seeing both the pro- and anti-
inflammatory effects.
As you said, 35k interactions (whose number is that, maybe its 35
zillion, I guess we're just sure it's not just plain 35).
J.
cruiser
I tried GLA, Omega-6 and Omega-3 fatty acids, and they did nothing for me.
I took these in Borage Oil, Flax seed oil, Primrose oil, and pumpkin seed
oil, along with GLA capsules. One thing to be cautious about, is that
Omega-3 oils thin the blood and reduce clotting factors.
Cruiser
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c5ec877...@news.gte.net...
> (BIO #11296) ? New.
mike
>Omega-3 oils thin the blood and reduce clotting factors.
>Cruiser
Thats a good thing.... Who the heck wants to get a blood clot? not me....
mike
mike
alot of research on this disease.... Keep them coming...
mike
Insane Ranter
mike wrote in message ...
That's clotting as in clotting around a cut so that you don't bleed to
death....
Randall
> On 3 Feb 2002 12:19:38 -0800, ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:
> >Now, how does GLA and omega 6, a proinflammatory component, clear you?
>
> Doncha just love all this amateur bioscience!?!??!?
Yes, the real guys don't come out in the sunshine long enough to
play with... their marbles
>
> OK, why not, let me explain it to you! EPO/GLA is both a pro- and
> anti- inflammatory, and for me, apparently the anti- is more
> pronounced when I directly consume GLA. That's it. Here's some
> detail.
Before you get going to strong. Don't worry i take w6 everyday.
Let me get my flax seed oil bottle. One tbsp =
w3 (ala) 8g. 51-57%
w6 (La) 3g. 14-18%
w9 (oa) 2g. 16%
Stearic, lauric and Palmitic acid (1g.) 9%
So there besides all the soy bean oil et al that i avoid i can't
avoid w6 as its in the life saving FSO's.
>
> Because part of omega 6 metabolism is to *balance* pro- and ANTI-
> inflammatories. According to this book, there is a chain:
>
> omega6 -> linoleic acid ->
> gamma linolenic acid (GLA) ->
> (promoted by b6, mg, zn insulin)
> dihomo-gamma-linolenic acid ->
> PREFERRED PATHWAY.......
..................(i think the default pathwhey
Is at work here) or ???? delta 5 desaturase makes to much COX2's to cope with.
> PG-1 ANTI-inflammatory prostaglandins
> (promoted by vitaims C, b3)
> phospholipase pathway
> (inhibited by steroids, licorice, chamomile, ...)
> arachidonic acid (which can of course come from diet directly)
> cyclo-oxygenase pathway
> (inhibited by aspirin,ginger,garlic,onions(quercetin))
> PG-2 inflammatory prostaglandins
> thromboxanes (inflammatory)
> lipoxygenase pathway
> (inhibited by quercetin etc)
> leokotrines (inflammatory)
Wonder what you'll find if you google randall + these inflame a tories?
>
> omega3 -> ALA -> EPA -> PG-3 ANTI-inflammatory prostaglandins
Caveat emptor... add in some sugars and the Delta 5 dominates over delta 6
and wreaks havoc as it makes more in flame a thing-ies.
>
> Apparently, for me, extra omega-3 does not produce any more PG-3's,
> but extra GLA *does* produce extra PG-1's, more so than any extra bad
> PG-2's I get. Or so it seems.
>
> Let me google some more. Aha, better results today! I have not read
> all of these completely, but they are indicative.
>
> http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&q=dgla+lipoxygenase+prostaglandin+antiinflammatory
>
> -----------------------------
>
> http://www.canolainfo.org/html/bibliography/biblio0.html
>
> This one shows the PG-1 tree I referred to above:
>
> When humans consume DGLA (from GLA), ALA, EPA and/or DHA, these fatty
> acids are incorporated into the cell membranes within and around the
> cells of the body. They partially replace AA and also compete with AA
> for cyclooxygenase and lipoxygenase activities. Hence the ingestion of
> these fatty acids can result in decreased production of PGE2, TXB2 and
> LTB4.
>
> -----------------------------
>
> Here's something very long that might be relevant, tho it does not
> seem to mention PG-1s. If you have the time and expertise to read it,
> please let us know what it says!
>
> http://www.mdheal.org/fatty.htm
Check... will get back.. this is fun. play with your food fats.
Now, do you get my wesson wit-ty topical naughtyness? Ha ha?
>
> -----------------------------
>
> http://www.bioriginal.com/scientific_support/bibliography/skinfunction.html
Can't read it now, i'm typing this reply. I did read you e to me and was most
impressed. Your a true knight of the p round table. Sir Pallahad.
>
> (several studies, mixed results, this one looks positive and
> interesting)
Darn, i will post this thing post haste and go back and get clicky
with it. (BTW did you see evetsm's post? he's clearing in one week?
I thought he didn't have p? do you or anyone actually know?)
>
> BTW, the site is a grower of primrose and borage oils, also supplies
> fish oils!
> http://www.bioriginal.com/index.html
>
> Ziboh, V. A. 1998. Lipoxygenation of gamma-linolenic acid by skin
> epidermis: Modulation of epidermal inflammatory/hyperproliferative
> processes. Proc. Annual Meeting of the Amer. Oil Chemists' Soc. P. 25.
> (BIO #11296) † New.
>
> GLA, is a D -6 desaturase metabolite of LA.
Isn't this one of our p problems? Not good with Delta 6 when any sugars
are tossed into the mix (the grail for evetsm, that he never gets. I keep
barking it at him. You'd think the light bulb would go off by now.
His whole syndrome X thing is a simple fast trigger from delta 6 to
delta 5 de saturase. thats it, his genotype thrifty X theory reduced
(redux) to one sentence... his url on this is his magnum opus of P)
Maybe its a lack of fumarates and a few limiting factors plus a bunch of
small mitigating factors... otherwise know as a basket of maladies.
>
> Randall, you've said it yourself, if it was as easy as just counting
> n3/n6, we'd all have been cured centuries ago.
Moi? I think Barry Hunt gets this credit. He is the chemist that is
trying to help us. I hope whatever he's working on isn't what this
tube of stuff some guy just sent me from Paris to try..
I'm just not big on topicals.. that must go back to coal tar when i was six.
It was yucky poo. Maybe i decided right then and there to keep my P?
>
> BTW, there was some news a few months ago about n3's, that found much
> better clearing for something or other, if only one of the two
> normally mixed marine-based n3's was used, ... but unfortunately,
> nobody knows how to separate them at reasonable cost. Again, you
> cannot just count the n3 and n6.
The trick to P island is to prevent all rum dum drinks and sugars from
flipping the D5/D6 switch. Get it yet? Its a time and space sugar over
the lips induction thing. Or something as i'm typing at a fast clip to
go back and check out those sites.
>
> BTW#2, since I have gone the coconut route, I *have* noticed that even
> an extra dose of salad dressing causes me a slight flare. There's
> your n6 doing bad stuff, I think. And as I've said before, ONLY since
> going with the coconut, have I noticed that *besides* its good
> effects, my old friend the EPO does seem to cause some bad symptoms in
> the area of bleeding. So, I think I am seeing both the pro- and anti-
> inflammatory effects.
I love to do the curried eggplant with coconut milk/fat in a can route.
I still have two coconuts left over from last summer in the kitchen.
If i shake em all the milk has gone bye bye...
>
> As you said, 35k interactions (whose number is that, maybe its 35
> zillion, I guess we're just sure it's not just plain 35).
>
I got that one from some ND, a real homeopathologist type. I still read
em nevertheless as they do try to explain the workings for the layman.
randall.... now, i have my homework cut out for me..light up the pipes.
> J.
JRStern
>Caveat emptor... add in some sugars and the Delta 5 dominates over delta 6
>and wreaks havoc as it makes more in flame a thing-ies.
Well, but you make it sound like it's entirely a metabolic thing that
can be entirely fixed by balancing (or unbalancing) the diet. While
it's quite evident to me that diet can increase or decrease symptoms,
I remain unconvinced that it *causes* the symptoms.
I have another crackpot idea that I have no evidence for. I wonder if
an extremely monotonous diet would help. Perhaps, somehow, leaky gut
for all I know, our immune system somehow starts reacting to
relatively harmless food components (though why that would show up as
scaly skin is a question -- the homeos just call the skin an
eliminatory organ, ... well, maybe). Maybe just eating the same two
or three items for a month or three, would help, with little concern
for sugars or omegas or nightshades or whatevers. Would be horribly
boring, cuz my diet is usually extremely varied, ... which is in part
what brings forth the idea, I suppose.
Maybe I'll try it sometime, not sure what to pick to do relatively
little damage to oneself. Any ideas?
J.
Randall
> On 4 Feb 2002 16:35:53 -0800, ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:
> >Caveat emptor... add in some sugars and the Delta 5 dominates over delta 6
> >and wreaks havoc as it makes more in flame a thing-ies.
>
> Well, but you make it sound like it's entirely a metabolic thing that
> can be entirely fixed by balancing (or unbalancing) the diet. While
> it's quite evident to me that diet can increase or decrease symptoms,
> I remain unconvinced that it *causes* the symptoms.
I can and have fixed my P with either a starvation diet or meatless
or wholewhey regrow good flora diet. And they work for very good
reasons that lead me to the conclusions that point me to
the areas that i google. As "the P basket of maladies" seems to
allow for metaphors such as the iceberg/titan-ic, p-island,
and the P-grail for narrative musings, i'm myth-ic-allopath-icly not
Alt-tistically (for almost the most part of me as the alts still
haven't
found the one and only true colon/good flora rebuilder- Whole whey
w/wit kit)
inclined to suspect the DNA connections may point to my conclusions,
which may be contusions for those in the pharma/allopathic cartels and
their desires to treat us in a whey conducive to their formats with
the ins./gov cartels. (all another story of less then mythic fun)
So in my colon connection, bad flora to good flora ratio, a p flare
would
be a autoimmune/liver/peyers patch/P-450/conjugation enzymes
that are dependent on all players being up regulated (or downed reg'd)
in
concert to cause the effects that occur in the cellular
membrane/receptors/
Th1Th2 dominance/ kinase cascade/ cGMP/cAmP ratio/, should i go on?
Throw in my iron ironies et al and the cast rivals hoolywood for
color-
full characters. Who needs Agatha Christ-ie? We have cellular death
and sherlock holmes/CIS/Quincy/Poirt situations 24/7 if we want.
How many events that, if only one was done diffenrently, led to the
titanic?
Our P chain of events could lead to a small flare based on triggers
like
grapefruit juice being heavily/lightly consumed! Hence, eating p
death.
Or sucking it for this trigger. You could quinine/strep/antibiotic and
more it.
Most of my p life the food combos mystified me. How delta 6/delta 5
reacts to carb-O-hoisms was the key for me to unravel the connections.
I remember the elation of that p epiphanous day quite well.
Now, like the thread i'm going to next with the prodigal cruiser, what
the amino acids are doing and how seems to be wheying on my mind.
I've alwheys' had a sweet tooth. Which to my whey of thinking lies
at the crux of the dilemma. The reward- risk/benefits of carboholism
is a very thin line that raises my razors edge thingamabob grey cell
musings. To light the little grey cells with sugar vs glycation is
a real concern that wheys heavier over the years. Or specificly as
you age and work to keep your mind youthfool without forgetting the
prolougous past. Not a path that leads to my blue heaven, i'm sure.
Since i have no intentions of going into the white light, a clear
path is prerequiste for personal intentions and reasons.
How lysine and other aminos interact may stop the p and grey
cell plaque for less then obvious reasons. Gots to reboot the
brain.... C ya for now.
>
> I have another crackpot idea that I have no evidence for. I wonder if
> an extremely monotonous diet would help. Perhaps, somehow, leaky gut
> for all I know, our immune system somehow starts reacting to
> relatively harmless food components (though why that would show up as
> scaly skin is a question -- the homeos just call the skin an
> eliminatory organ, ... well, maybe). Maybe just eating the same two
> or three items for a month or three, would help, with little concern
> for sugars or omegas or nightshades or whatevers. Would be horribly
> boring, cuz my diet is usually extremely varied, ... which is in part
> what brings forth the idea, I suppose.
>
> Maybe I'll try it sometime, not sure what to pick to do relatively
> little damage to oneself. Any ideas?
Yes, see above and ruminate for awhile... its whey over all our
collective heads for this nascent moment in heavily p wheying
wintery moments. Cept, i suspect the sun is shinning as brightly
there as here. hehe
randall... in the sunshine of C H & O
>
> J.
Stephen Botelho
> JRStern And Randall...... I enjoy your posts.. You 2 seem like you've done
> alot of research on this disease.... Keep them coming...
>
>
> mike
Hello all - just started Primrose oil 2000mg, Cod Liver, and increase
in B related vitamins (stress vitamins)
Question: How much Primrose oil should be taken at one time - is 2000
ok - should I take more?
also, for PA - does any of this help?
I also have mild P
Randall
This site is whey cool.... i'm on it now... and of course
i'm bringing back the crux of my argumentative needs to
nail the homework. Prostaglandins and allergies will do.
Here it is: (sans charts-that do help BTW, if the delta6/5 was done
better)
Which, does tend to lead one to surmise a basket with triggers (hair).
&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&&
PROSTAGLANDINS AND ALLERGY
A central event in the expression of allergic illness is the binding
of immunoglobulin E (IgE) to mast cells with resultant releases of
histamine (HA) and other inflammatory mediators. In addition to acting
as an effector of allergic inflammation by stimulating H I receptors,
HA has immunosuppressive effects that are H2-mediated [39]. HA
stimulates a population of suppressor T lymphocytes to produce a
suppressor lymphokine called histamine-induced suppressor factor
(HSF). The ability of lymphocytes to bind HA. and. therefore, to
produce HSF. is a function of cell maturation [40]. HSF stimulates
monocytes to produce E prostaglandins (PGE), which inhibit lymphocyte
proliferation. lymphokine production. and antibody synthesis [41].
Atopic individuals show several immunologic deficiencies that can
interfere with this carefully regulated negative feedback loop.
Decrease in the number and function of suppressor/cytotoxic
lymphocytes has been described by numerous investigators [42-48].
Rocklin and his colleagues [49] demonstrated a decrease in lymphocytes
bearing H2 receptors and, consequently, diminished formation of HSF by
atopic lymphocytes. Suppressor T cells of atopics show abnormal
responses to drugs that ordinarily increase intracellular cAMP [47].
Atopic monocytes produce less than 10% of the PGE2 in response to HSF
that normal monocytes do; they require more HA to stimulate suppressor
functions [48]. Atopic individuals, therefore, have higher circulating
levels of HA [46,50]. These abnormalities are specific to atopy and
not merely secondary to down-regulation of H2 receptors by high HA
exposure [49]. They might all be explained by diminished PGE
production. PGEI, a derivative of DGLA, encourages the maturation of T
lymphocytes [51] and might enhance cytotoxic T-cell activity in vivo
[52]. PGEI and its analogue, PGE2 (derived from AA), maintain
intracellular cAMP concentrations [53] and modulate the activation of
adenylate cyclase by hormones [54] and neurotransmitters [55]. In
higher physiological concentrations (10-6-10-5 M) PGEI inhibits HA
release [56]. Decreased PGEI production might explain the impaired
T-cell maturation and cytolytic activity of atopics. T-cell immaturity
would decrease H2-receptor development [40]. Impaired synthesis of
PGE2 by monocytes might further attenuate the HA-induced negative
feedback loop. Lack of PGE-stimulated adenylate cyclase activity might
explain the altered response of atopic tissues to drugs and chemical
regulators that express their effects through adenylate cyclase. A
role for impaired LA desaturation in the immunology of atopy is
illustrated in Figure 2a.
Excessive, rather than diminished, generation of PGs and Us
contributes to the appearance of many allergic symptoms. such as
wheezing, mucorrhea, and edema [8]. Us also play a critical role in HA
release [57]. The first step in PG/LT synthesis is the hydrolysis of
DGLA or AA from the cell membrane by the activity of a phospholipase.
These enzymes are activated by calcium and inhibited by cyclic AMP
[58]. PGEI, a potent stimulator of adenylate cyclase. inhibits
phospholipase activity in human platelets [59]. Impairment of PGE
production may allow increased phospholipase activity and increased
synthesis of proinflammatory PGs and Us. Analogous situations exist in
cystic fibrosis (60] and Crohn disease [61], in which increased PG
production accompanies decreased EFA levels. In fact, administering LA
to patients with cystic fibrosis results in a decrease in the
formation of PGF2. [60]. Thus impaired EFA metabolism in allergic
individuals would produce a distortion of PG/ LT synthesis rather than
a global decrease. Moreover, an increase in membrane viscosity might
operate to activate phospholipase or impair adenylate cyclase. This
concept is represented in Figure 2b.
The enzymes that metabolize LA also desaturate and elongate LNA [36].
While the enzymes of PUFA synthesis generally show a higher affinity
for n3 EFAs, the n3 EFAs form a tiny fraction of total fatty acids.
and dietary intake of n3 EFAs in industrialized countries has been
declining over the past several decades owing to changes in food
choices and the partial hydrogenation of vegetable oils [62]. The
competitive relationship between n3 and n6 EFAs makes it likely that
disturbances in n3 intake or metabolism can lead to altered PG
synthesis. This effect is shown in Figure 2c. In that PGs regulate
numerous cell functions in addition to immune modulation, disordered
PG synthesis would be expected to produce diverse clinical
manifestations. Our experience, described below in the case
presentations, has been that a variety of nonallergic conditions
occurring in atopic individuals will respond to dietary EFA
supplementation.
**********************************
And now we know almost, why we sing the P-Blues. All the funky monkey
little things to fiddle with the diet and a hair trigger autoimmune
that lends support to my its a cGMP/cAMP ratio from a trigger>
Peyers patches>liver>enzymes> shuttle the crap out to the lymphaticals
to hide the radicals- it becomes a topical problem and is therefore
compensatory thing dis-ease. One of those flow charts would be nice
about now.... cept. the focal point starts with a bug or nano bac etc
to blow out the good flora IMO. And thats why i like the cruiser
approach for now. That and i really need exercise and a better diet.
And if i don't remember that commitment to myself, i will forget.
Use it or lose it. And thats it. Now i will go and look at
something that has been bothering me. Lithium. Fen/phen.
Brain stuff and triggers.
randall... How can i sing the P blues on such a lovely day?
JRStern
>I can and have fixed my P with either a starvation diet or meatless
>or wholewhey regrow good flora diet. And they work for very good
>reasons that lead me to the conclusions that point me to
>the areas that i google.
Can you say more about the starvation and/or meatless diets?
J.
JRStern
wrote:
>Hello all - just started Primrose oil 2000mg, Cod Liver, and increase
>in B related vitamins (stress vitamins)
>
>Question: How much Primrose oil should be taken at one time - is 2000
>ok - should I take more?
I've been taking just 500mg/day of primrose oil only, and skipping
days, but never see any clearing. Mike is recommending 3000mg/day and
more, and has gotten clearing. Your mileage may vary.
>also, for PA - does any of this help?
Yes, both mike and I have found PA symptoms clearing from primrose.
Make sure you do not take aspirin or any other nsaids, and avoid
cortisone steroids, too (at least as much as possible) while trying
the primrose, it probably blocks it -- does so dramatically with me.
Takes a week or so to see much improvement on the PA, though you might
see a little improvement sooner. Let us know of any -- or none.
J.
mike
excellent on the nails..
"JRStern" <JRS...@gte.net> wrote in message
news:3c6071d0...@news.gte.net...
Randall
Hi,
Starvation diets have to be worked up to. You can start out
very slowly and work up to a 10-30% reduction in average
daily calories. Biblical proportions (30 days) may be
adverse to your health. I don't think we are as tuff as
our fore...fathers.
Keyword. Dr. Walford Phd UCLA or Lef CR (Caloric restriction)
A meatless diet for myself would be macrobiotic. No Meat
some dairy mostly brown rice, veggies etc. The next level
up from there would include fish. Then poultry and
meat. (I try very successfully to avoid pork and egg
yolks as they will flare me in less then a day)
Nowadays, i eat one meal a day most days (no carbs cept
for veggies) and have a brown rice shake with proflora
whey and protein whey for breakfast.
When i'm hungry i will eat something between 12:00 and 2:00.
randall... ghee.. looks sorta boring.. looking at it.
>
> J.
JRStern
>Starvation diets have to be worked up to. You can start out
>very slowly and work up to a 10-30% reduction in average
>daily calories. Biblical proportions (30 days) may be
>adverse to your health. I don't think we are as tuff as
>our fore...fathers.
I can probably cut my calories 50% and it wouldn't qualify as
"starvation", heck, I probably eat 60% fewer calories than I did ten
years ago, with no change in weight (maybe a tad over optimal but no
more than that). I've been working down to it that long, I guess.
>Nowadays, i eat one meal a day most days (no carbs cept
>for veggies) and have a brown rice shake with proflora
>whey and protein whey for breakfast.
>
>When i'm hungry i will eat something between 12:00 and 2:00.
So I gather your one meal is generally dinner. I was thinking, in
order to have lower blood sugar at night and sleep better (?!), I'd
make my one meal lunch, with a tiny snack around dinner. I've been
working towards that for a year or two now, in fact, probably for the
last three months I've taken 70% of my calories at lunch (around
2:00PM). Maybe it's helped the psoriasis a tad, but I'm gonna shoot
for 90% at lunch -- that's a decrease away from lunch, of course, not
adding a hot fudge sundae to bias the math. I've never been much for
breakfast.
I'm going to try to cut the total calories until I start to lose a few
pounds, which is about all I really ought to lose. Then, well, we'll
see what to do next.
Thanx for the info.
J.
Randall
> On 6 Feb 2002 22:44:11 -0800, ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote:
> >Starvation diets have to be worked up to. You can start out
> >very slowly and work up to a 10-30% reduction in average
> >daily calories. Biblical proportions (30 days) may be
> >adverse to your health. I don't think we are as tuff as
> >our fore...fathers.
>
> I can probably cut my calories 50% and it wouldn't qualify as
> "starvation", heck, I probably eat 60% fewer calories than I did ten
> years ago, with no change in weight (maybe a tad over optimal but no
> more than that). I've been working down to it that long, I guess.
>
> >Nowadays, i eat one meal a day most days (no carbs cept
> >for veggies) and have a brown rice shake with proflora
> >whey and protein whey for breakfast.
> >
> >When i'm hungry i will eat something between 12:00 and 2:00.
>
> So I gather your one meal is generally dinner. I was thinking, in
> order to have lower blood sugar at night and sleep better (?!), I'd
> make my one meal lunch, with a tiny snack around dinner. I've been
> working towards that for a year or two now, in fact, probably for the
> last three months I've taken 70% of my calories at lunch (around
> 2:00PM). Maybe it's helped the psoriasis a tad, but I'm gonna shoot
> for 90% at lunch -- that's a decrease away from lunch, of course, not
> adding a hot fudge sundae to bias the math. I've never been much for
> breakfast.
Ideally, on P island et al, breakfast would be the biggy.
All the calories and proteins and fats for rebuilding the
tissues, organs and glands that are functioning in the
hurly burly hussle bussle everyday world.
A smaller meal for lunch.
And salad and carbs for supper. So the sugars can be
packed away while dreaming of all the goals to be
met the next day. Glucogenesis ?
So, do i do this? NOpe. I blame it on the light bulb.
Down regulating or changing the job of melatonin.
Should we turn off the lights and computers when the
sun goes down. And let the DNA selected for individuals
able to better prepare for the rigors of life do there thing?
Is there a genetic link to P directly or is it
part of our hunter/gatherer ancestory indirectly?
Is evolution, evilution for autoimmunity? My adrenals now
need a hit of B5 just thinking about it.
randall.. eating for maximun clearing= eating the right whey
JRStern
>Is evolution, evilution for autoimmunity?
I think it's the axis of evil.
J.
Vicki Portman
The doc. I was doing some research tests with (mostly giving him skin
biopsies) last year reckons there must be some evolutionary advantage to
p or we wouldn't be the only animal to get it. He also reckons that P
skin is very resistant to infection. This bears out for me - got a big
infectio in a healthy skin biopsy and nil in p skin biopsies, despite
most of them busting out of their stitches...
Vicki
Randall
Hi Vicki,
At times i've felt that way. I almost never got any other illnesses.
I thought my p was compensating for that. Not even a headache
for ten to fifteen years.
Maybe its all the busting out in stiches i've done over the
forty five p years i've lived. The days of wine and roses.
As to the infectious skin it must be the NO in the
P. It is a gas in more wheys then one.
side bar... do i explain this to someones dismay or do
i just hope that enough get it.
Oh, the ennui of p life. It all started out so rife.
And now... turn turn turn.. is it mine.?
randall... a lamb mime muting and batheing in the desert? Bleatless?
JRStern
<vi...@NOSPAMplushpants.co.uk> wrote:
>> I think it's the axis of evil.
>
>biopsies) last year reckons there must be some evolutionary advantage to
>p or we wouldn't be the only animal to get it. He also reckons that P
>skin is very resistant to infection. This bears out for me - got a big
>infectio in a healthy skin biopsy and nil in p skin biopsies, despite
>most of them busting out of their stitches...
Sure, the model would be sickle-cell anemia, which despite being a
disabling malady in its own right protects against malaria. Sometimes
evolution makes some dubious moves.
But what's this about your biopsy turning up an infection in the
"healthy" skin? Was it then identified and treated, and if so how,
and did it have any (beneficial) effect on your psoriasis, if you see
where I'm going with all this?!??!
J.
Mariadoris
same stuff, namely GLA?