Maybe you can make a difference.
nesielheum
Capitol Call-In: Monday, Feb. 26, 2007
How can one person make a difference?
When you take action through the Psoriasis Foundation, you are not acting
alone-you are joining a community that is passionately dedicated to raising
awareness and improving quality of life for people with psoriasis and
psoriatic arthritis.
http://www.psoriasis.org/advocacy/chd/2007/cci.php?PHPSESSID=c47ee5a3d4bb31126b5d6081dde092d9
--
Cheers!
TimM
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis "nesielheum"
<nesie...@nospam.net>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
Thanx for posting in plaintext.
Do you see nothing wrong with asking government to rob your neighbors
to pay for research into your particular malady?
marika
wrote:
to make this a more effective announcement, you should connect up a link
that enables people to determine senators too. I just moved and don't
really know who all represents me in the senate
nesielheum
The link below will connect to the NPFs webpage where your questions will be
answered. I think??
Who is your rep, and what is your reps phone #, and much much more can be
found by exploring the links on the NPF's website.>>>
http://www.psoriasis.org/advocacy/
It is usually as simple as entering your zip code.
Good point about contacting Senators also. As for the Senators, I am not
sure if they are being targeted during this wave of advocacy. I agree it
would be more effective if maximum # of Reps and Senators could be
contacted, but with a limited # of advocates for this disease it is
important to focus and not spread ourselves too thin.
And to answer Frosty's question, no I do not feel the least bit guilty
asking that some of the $$billion$$ of research money allocated in the form
of grants be directed toward researching a cure for psoriasis. These monies
are crucial to the mission of finding a cure for this disease, and long
overdue.
When to call and what to say
>>>>http://www.psoriasis.org/advocacy/chd/2007/cci.php?PHPSESSID=c47ee5a3d4bb31126b5d6081dde092d9
--
Cheers!
TimM
"marika" <mce...@mindspring.com> wrote in message
news:op.toai9...@dialup-4.249.18.21.dial1.washington2.level3.net...
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis "nesielheum"
<nesie...@nospam.net>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
>
>And to answer Frosty's question, no I do not feel the least bit guilty
>asking that some of the $$billion$$ of research money allocated in the form
>of grants be directed toward researching a cure for psoriasis. These monies
>are crucial to the mission of finding a cure for this disease, and long
>overdue.
I have suffered with psoriasis and psoriatic arthritis for close to 20
years. I want a cure as badly as anyone.
Well, for what it's worth, (and I say that because you definitely
won't even attempt to learn anything about economics) this scheme will
fail.
The best way to realize a cure is to allow the market to provide one
for a profit.
And before you toss your cookies at the mention of the word 'profit'
think about this: Will you work for free? Or do you expect some
compensation for your labors? So then why should the drug companies
work for free?
And the drug companies are rewarded for inventing a drug or procedure
that works to cure a disease or to lessen the symptoms.
The government, on the other hand, rewards companies for *not* curing
the disease! Why would a company which is getting money to research
possible cures/treatments for a disease bother to discover a cure? The
moment a cure is discovered, the money stops. You don't imagine for a
moment that the holder of the purse strings (government) is going to
allow the inventor to patent his invention, do you??
Without the reward of a profit. the drug companies have no incentive
to manufacture the drug developed in the government study.
So you should feel guilty. Your advocacy, and the advocacy of the NPF
for this alleged shortcut to a cure which attempts to bypass the
marketplace will have the unintended consequence of ensuring a cure
will not be found.
Good going!
P.S. I will call my representative and ask him to *not* sponsor this
foolish attempt to thwart the marketplace.
GrandpaChuck
wrote:
I would sure as hell rather see them spending a fraction of what we
are wasting in Bush's war in Iraq on a daily basis. That expenditure
is just plain obscene. The man along with Cheney deserves to be
impeached and tried for high treason for all they have done in Iraq
and for all of their lies to the American people. At least all that
Clinton ever lied about was his own personal sexual relationship(s).
Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind. Do
you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
seam cell research?
Have a wonderful day. I hope you are not where this storm has
adversely effected you. Many, many people in this part of Iowa are
still without electricity and my continue to be for a few days.
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 24, 2007 is 3155. United Kingdom = 132 Other = 124.
As of February 25, 2007 it has been 1414 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
which was sent to the ship by the White House that said, "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED" declared,
"In the Battle of Iraq, the United States and our allies have prevailed." IOW "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED."
When fascism comes to America, it will be wrapped in the flag, and carrying a cross." --Sinclair Lewis
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 23:45:42 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Sat, 24 Feb 2007 12:31:02 -0500 in
>>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis "nesielheum"
>><nesie...@nospam.net>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>>instead wrote :
>>
>>>Capitol Hill Day 2007
>>>Capitol Call-In: Monday, Feb. 26, 2007
>>>
>>>How can one person make a difference?
>>>When you take action through the Psoriasis Foundation, you are not acting
>>>alone-you are joining a community that is passionately dedicated to raising
>>>awareness and improving quality of life for people with psoriasis and
>>>psoriatic arthritis.
>>>
>>>http://www.psoriasis.org/advocacy/chd/2007/cci.php?PHPSESSID=c47ee5a3d4bb31126b5d6081dde092d9
>>
>>
>>Thanx for posting in plaintext.
>>
>>Do you see nothing wrong with asking government to rob your neighbors
>>to pay for research into your particular malady?
>
>I would sure as hell rather see them spending a fraction of what we
>are wasting in Bush's war in Iraq on a daily basis. That expenditure
>is just plain obscene. The man along with Cheney deserves to be
>impeached and tried for high treason for all they have done in Iraq
>and for all of their lies to the American people. At least all that
>Clinton ever lied about was his own personal sexual relationship(s).
I seem to remember some war happening under Clinton's watch...
(Not that I like Bush more. In fact, I hate them both equally)
>
>Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
>some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind.
I ask you then to reply to my other post on this thread, the one that
speaks of the economics of gov't vs. private funding for research.
Money spent by government on anything is wasted if one has any
understanding of how economics work vs. how many people wish they
would work.
JXStern
wrote:
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 09:52:43 -0500 in
>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis "nesielheum"
><nesie...@nospam.net>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>instead wrote :
...
>The best way to realize a cure is to allow the market to provide one
>for a profit.
...
Frosty, I agree with 99.44% or more of what you say, in terms of
economics and politics and the real world.
However, letting the NPF be a squeaky wheel on our behalf isn't really
all that bad a thing, for a couple of reasons. They're never going to
spring any major amounts of money, but a little bit might find a good
place to go, or someone might even have an idea how to have the
government promote some research or treatments that otherwise couldn't
be commercialized.
A lot of basic research, and some of the best, is done at universities
under a government system of research grants, in all fields.
Generally the universities get to hold any resulting patents, the
researcher gets a small piece - and a little more university funding
as a reward. Stuff like turmeric can be verified and tested under
such an environment, that is going to be a lot less attractive to
private sources because of difficulties of patenting it. Some kind of
"prize" could be offered to researchers for a non-patentable cure.
You want major foolishness, we have the state of California voted
$3,000,000,000 to spend on stem cell research, which is a lot of
money, the state has no idea how to spend it, not to mention that stem
cells are decades away from proving useful for anything - if they ever
will. I'm sure the voters of California would pass a bill mandating
that gravity be reduced by 10% to fight obesity, and fund it with ten
billion dollars, and fakers would show up and take the money.
J.
GrandpaChuck
wrote:
>>>Do you see nothing wrong with asking government to rob your neighbors
>>>to pay for research into your particular malady?
>>
>>I would sure as hell rather see them spending a fraction of what we
>>are wasting in Bush's war in Iraq on a daily basis. That expenditure
>>is just plain obscene. The man along with Cheney deserves to be
>>impeached and tried for high treason for all they have done in Iraq
>>and for all of their lies to the American people. At least all that
>>Clinton ever lied about was his own personal sexual relationship(s).
>
>I seem to remember some war happening under Clinton's watch...
>(Not that I like Bush more. In fact, I hate them both equally)
And just what country did he attack and occupy while thousands of our
brave soldiers died for nothing?
>>
>>Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
>>some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind.
>
>I ask you then to reply to my other post on this thread, the one that
>speaks of the economics of gov't vs. private funding for research.
>Money spent by government on anything is wasted if one has any
>understanding of how economics work vs. how many people wish they
>would work.
I disagree with what you said. As it stands now the drug companies
make obscene profits on medications that many of us have to take every
single day. Those companies deserve to be put under very strict price
controls.
>
>>Do
>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>seam cell research?
Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 24, 2007 is 3155. United Kingdom = 132 Other = 124.
As of February 26, 2007 it has been 1415 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:48:05 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>>>Do you see nothing wrong with asking government to rob your neighbors
>>>>to pay for research into your particular malady?
>>>
>>>I would sure as hell rather see them spending a fraction of what we
>>>are wasting in Bush's war in Iraq on a daily basis. That expenditure
>>>is just plain obscene. The man along with Cheney deserves to be
>>>impeached and tried for high treason for all they have done in Iraq
>>>and for all of their lies to the American people. At least all that
>>>Clinton ever lied about was his own personal sexual relationship(s).
>>
>>I seem to remember some war happening under Clinton's watch...
>>(Not that I like Bush more. In fact, I hate them both equally)
>
>And just what country did he attack and occupy while thousands of our
>brave soldiers died for nothing?
It doesn't matter.
It's not germane to this debate. (I don't care.)
If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
any sense loves him (and his penis.)
>
>>>
>>>Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
>>>some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind.
>>
>>I ask you then to reply to my other post on this thread, the one that
>>speaks of the economics of gov't vs. private funding for research.
>>Money spent by government on anything is wasted if one has any
>>understanding of how economics work vs. how many people wish they
>>would work.
>
>I disagree with what you said. As it stands now the drug companies
>make obscene profits on medications that many of us have to take every
>single day. Those companies deserve to be put under very strict price
>controls.
I see. There is no point in debating with you further. You are one of
those so-called "liberals" whose minds are already made up and while
you and your kind always demand we capitalists "open our minds" yours
is so tightly closed light will not penetrate.
>
>>
>>>Do
>>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>>seam cell research?
>
>Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
I didn't reply because you pro-abortionists want so badly to justify
your viewpoints about abortion that you grasp at any available straw
which you hope will make the case that we as a society need lots of
fetal tissue to save the living.
Look, I don't really care who aborts or brings to term their rug-rats.
I don't own a womb and so it ain't on me to say one way or another how
a woman should treat herself. I think if I had one I'd do my best to
keep from ever having to shit a baby out of my twat, and would
probably have my tubes tied early on so I could fuck as much as I
wanted to without having to concern myself with such as that. But
maybe not. Maybe I'd be a huge fat earth momma in a sun dress with
hairy armpits and a screamer attached to each teat and 40 more in tow.
But the reality is, stem cell research has thus far proven to be a
failure.
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis JXStern
<JXSternC...@gte.net>, intended to write something intelligible,
but instead wrote :
Well, you may be right about the Universities and such.
As to the gravity thing, now THAT's something I could get behind!
Frosty
randall
> On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 14:12:42 -0500, Frosty < claus...@yahoo.com>
> wrote:
>
> >On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 09:52:43 -0500 in
> >alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis "nesielheum"
http://www.topcancernews.com/news/299/1/The-immune-system-attackes-Cancer
There is something very important with our high levels of TNF that
people
with cancer need to eat their tumours.
Recall: Th1 skew is autoimmune and a Th2 skew leads towards cancer
As these pathways are known it will be easy (some day) to balance Th1/
Th2
and Tregs. And as this potential resides in the gut via IL-10, I feel
an
extremely cheap method will be one day (soon) be available to do just
that.
And at this point, if the method is found by a cheapO pharmO company
or
gov institution (school, NIH etc) i'm OK with it. The resulting
changes in
medical care and cost savings will be on the order of eradication of
polio
and a dozen other $ draining conditions.
Look at the cheapO cure for ulcers and how much $ that is now saving
governments and those that would be or have been afflicted.
Its no wonder that doctor received a Nobel prize for medicine.
So, think about that link up toP. One day they'll be able to easily
cure those on
the outer edges of the bell curve of Th1 and Th2.
The monetary savings will be larger then the GDP's of countries in the
the top 10.
------------------
How did I save big $ and help lower your health insurance?
Easy. I fixed my guts to kick out more IL-10. I don't need the
biologicals now.
While they work great, their not the end all and be all for curing P.
And after all these years science is finally proving my methods (wit
kit & diet + supplements) correct.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=15940144&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Selective probiotic bacteria induce IL-10-producing regulatory T cells
in vitro by modulating dendritic cell function through dendritic cell-
specific intercellular adhesion molecule 3-grabbing nonintegrin.
* Smits HH,
* Engering A,
* van der Kleij D,
* de Jong EC,
* Schipper K,
* van Capel TM,
* Zaat BA,
* Yazdanbakhsh M,
* Wierenga EA,
* van Kooyk Y,
* Kapsenberg ML.
Department of Cell Biology and Histology, Academic Medical Center,
University of Amsterdam, Meibergdreef 15, 1105 AZ Amsterdam, The
Netherlands.
BACKGROUND: Lactobacilli are probiotic bacteria that are frequently
tested in the management of allergic diseases or gastroenteritis. It
is hypothesized that these probiotics have immunoregulatory properties
and promote mucosal tolerance, which is in part mediated by regulatory
T cells (Treg cells). On the basis of pathogenic or tissue-specific
priming, dendritic cells (DC) acquire different T cell-instructive
signals and drive the differentiation of naive T H cells into either T
H 1, T H 2, or regulatory effector T cells. OBJECTIVE: We studied in
what way different species of lactobacilli prime human DCs for their
ability to drive Treg cells. METHODS: Human monocyte-derived DCs were
cultured in vitro with lactobacilli of different species. RESULTS: Two
different species of lactobacilli, Lactobacillus reuteri and
Lactobacillus casei , but not Lactobacillus plantarum, prime monocyte-
derived DCs to drive the development of Treg cells. These Treg cells
produced increased levels of IL-10 and were capable of inhibiting the
proliferation of bystander T cells in an IL-10-dependent fashion.
Strikingly, both L reuteri and L casei , but not L plantarum , bind
the C-type lectin DC-specific intercellular adhesion molecule 3-
grabbing non-integrin (DC-SIGN). Blocking antibodies to DC-SIGN
inhibited the induction of the Treg cells by these probiotic bacteria,
stressing that ligation of DC-SIGN can actively prime DCs to induce
Treg cells. CONCLUSIONS: The targeting of DC-SIGN by certain probiotic
bacteria might explain their beneficial effect in the treatment of a
number of inflammatory diseases, including atopic dermatitis and
Crohn's disease.
PMID: 15940144
(thanks to kofi posting this abstract on SLE NG. I may not have seen
it otherwise)
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17083345&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Regulation of the T cell response.
* Romagnani S.
Center of Excellence for Research, Transfer, and High Education
DENOTHE, University of Florence, Florence, Italy.
s.rom...@dmi.unifi.it
The T cell branch of the immune system can respond to a virtually
infinite variety of exogenous antigens, thus including the possibility
of self-antigen recognition and dangerous autoimmune reactions.
Therefore, regulatory mechanisms operate both during ontogeny within
the thymus and after birth in the periphery. The control of self-
reactive T cells occurs through a process of negative selection that
results in apoptosis of T cells showing high affinity for self-
peptides expressed at the thymic level by means of promiscuous gene
expression. Self-reactive T cells escaped to negative selection are
controlled in the periphery by other regulatory mechanisms, the most
important being natural Foxp3+ T regulatory (Treg) cells. Regulation
is also required to control excessive effector T cell responses
against exogenous antigens, when they become dangerous for the body.
Three types of effector T cells have been recognized: T helper 1 (Th1)
cells, which are protective against intracellular bacteria; Th2 cells,
which play some role in the protection against nematodes, but are
responsible for allergic reactions; Th17 cells, which are probably
effective in the protection against extracellular bacteria, but also
play a role in the amplification of autoimmune disorders. Abnormal or
excessive Th effector responses are regulated by different mechanisms.
Redirection or immune deviation of Th1- or Th2-dominated responses is
provided by cytokines [interferon-gamma (IFN-gamma) vs. interleukin-4
(IL-4)] produced by the same cell types and by the CXCR3-binding
chemokines CXCL4 and CXCL10. Moreover, both Th1 and Th2 responses can
be suppressed by adaptive Treg cells through contact-dependent
mechanisms and/or the production of IL-10 and transforming growth
factor-beta (TGF-beta). Finally, TGF-beta1 can promote the development
of both Th17 effector and adaptive Treg cells, while the
contemporaneous production of IL-6 contributes to the development of
Th17 cells, but inhibits Treg cells. The development of Th17 cells is
also down-regulated by IL-4 produced by Th2 cells and by IFN-gamma
produced by Th1 cells.
PMID: 17083345
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=AbstractPlus&list_uids=17017974&query_hl=4&itool=pubmed_DocSum
Targeting tumor-related immunosuppression for cancer immunotherapy.
* Frumento G,
* Piazza T,
* Di Carlo E,
* Ferrini S.
Istituto Nazionale per la Ricerca sul Cancro, C/o CBA Largo R. Benzi
10, 16132 Genoa, Italy.
Tumors produce several factors, such as Prostaglandins (PGs),
Interleukin (IL)-10, Vascular Endothelial Growth Factor (VEGF) and
Transforming Growth Factor (TGF)-beta, which may directly or
indirectly inhibit the immune response and may hamper immunotherapy.
Furthermore, cells of innate or adaptive immunity, recruited by tumor-
derived factors, may contribute in immunosuppression. Regulatory T
(Treg) cells such as the "naturally occurring" CD4(+)/CD25(+) Treg and
the IL-10-induced Tr1 cells are major players in this arena.
Paradoxically Treg cells are stimulated by IL-2, which is used in
tumor immunotherapy. Treg cells suppress T cell responses through
soluble factors or by contact-dependent mechanisms, such as the
Cytotoxic T Lymphocyte Antigen (CTLA)-4-mediated induction of
Indoleamine 2,3-Dioxygenase (IDO) in dendritic cells (DC). IDO
inhibits T cell responses by depleting Tryptophan and producing
Kynurenine, which is toxic to lymphocytes. Macrophages, granulocytes
or myeloid suppressor cells (MSC) suppress immunity by other enzymatic
mechanisms, involving Arginase and Nitric Oxide Synthase (NOS).
Subversion of tumor immunosuppression is required for successful
immunotherapy. Attempts to block or eliminate Treg cells have been
made by the use of chemotherapy, anti-CD25 or anti-CTLA-4 antibodies,
IL-2-toxin chimeric proteins or Glucocorticoid-induced TNF-like
Receptor (GITR) and CD134/OX-40 ligands. Tumor cells genetically
modified to secrete IL-21 (an immune-stimulatory "IL-2-like" cytokine,
which is not involved in immune regulation) cured experimental
metastases in combination with anti-CD25 monoclonal antibodies (mAbs).
Also strategies aimed at blocking enzyme-based immune-suppressive
mechanisms are suitable, as suggested by experimental evidences in
mouse tumor models.
PMID: 17017974
Regulatory T cells in experimental autoimmune disease.
* Suri-Payer E,
* Fritzsching B.
Division of Immunogenetics, D030, German Cancer Research Center, Im
Neuenheimer Feld 280, 69120 Heidelberg, Germany. E.Suri-Payer@dkfz-
heidelberg.de
During the past 10 years, CD4(+)CD25(+)Foxp3(+) regulatory T cells
(Treg) have been extensively studied for their function in autoimmune
disease. This review summarizes the evidence for a role of Treg in
suppression of innate and adaptive immune responses in experimental
models of autoimmunity including arthritis, colitis, diabetes,
autoimmune encephalomyelitis, lupus, gastritis, oophoritis,
prostatitis, and thyroiditis. Antigen-specific activation of Treg, but
antigen-independent suppressive function, emerges as a common paradigm
derived from several disease models. Treg suppress conventional T
cells (Tcon) by direct cell contact in vitro. However, downmodulation
of dendritic cell function and secretion of inhibitory cytokines such
as IL-10 and TGF-beta might underlie Treg function in vivo. The final
outcome of autoimmunity vs tolerance depends on the balance between
stimulatory signals (Toll-like receptor engagement, costimulation, and
antigen dose) and inhibitory signals from Treg. Whereas most
experimental settings analyze the capacity of Treg to prevent onset of
autoimmune disease, more recent efforts indicate successful treatment
of ongoing disease. Thus, Treg are on the verge of moving from
experimental animal models into clinical applications in humans.
PMID: 16838180
randall.. its good to be clearer and correct. LOL
randall
>
> --
> Cheers!
> TimM
I just got done calling my rep (susan davis). According to the person
I talked with, I
was the first one to call. LOL
They didn't want to know my name, only my zip code.
When I told them to support hr 1188 she said fine and we hung up.
Fast painless and all together a quick little affair.
You have less then 15 minutes to make that call (5:00pm est).
randall
GrandpaChuck
wrote:
>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 18:09:43 GMT in
>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
><Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>instead wrote :
>
>>On Sun, 25 Feb 2007 21:48:05 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>>>>Do you see nothing wrong with asking government to rob your neighbors
>>>>>to pay for research into your particular malady?
>>>>
>>>>I would sure as hell rather see them spending a fraction of what we
>>>>are wasting in Bush's war in Iraq on a daily basis. That expenditure
>>>>is just plain obscene. The man along with Cheney deserves to be
>>>>impeached and tried for high treason for all they have done in Iraq
>>>>and for all of their lies to the American people. At least all that
>>>>Clinton ever lied about was his own personal sexual relationship(s).
>>>
>>>I seem to remember some war happening under Clinton's watch...
>>>(Not that I like Bush more. In fact, I hate them both equally)
>>
>>And just what country did he attack and occupy while thousands of our
>>brave soldiers died for nothing?
>
>It doesn't matter.
>It's not germane to this debate. (I don't care.)
>If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
>any sense loves him (and his penis.)
God as I understand It/Her/Him is Unconditional Love.
Bill Clinton was probably the smartest man to be President since I
became eligible to vote in 1961.
>
>>
>>>>
>>>>Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
>>>>some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind.
>>>
>>>I ask you then to reply to my other post on this thread, the one that
>>>speaks of the economics of gov't vs. private funding for research.
>>>Money spent by government on anything is wasted if one has any
>>>understanding of how economics work vs. how many people wish they
>>>would work.
>>
>>I disagree with what you said. As it stands now the drug companies
>>make obscene profits on medications that many of us have to take every
>>single day. Those companies deserve to be put under very strict price
>>controls.
>
>I see. There is no point in debating with you further. You are one of
>those so-called "liberals" whose minds are already made up and while
>you and your kind always demand we capitalists "open our minds" yours
>is so tightly closed light will not penetrate.
And you are one of those Libertarians who never sees anyone else's
point of view. So, what's your point. Ronald Reagan turned me into a
proud liberal from the Republican that I always had been.
>>
>>>
>>>>Do
>>>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>>>seam cell research?
>>
>>Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
>
>I didn't reply because you pro-abortionists
Stop right there!
Being pro-choice does not make me or anyone a pro-abortionist. There
is a huge difference.
>But the reality is, stem cell research has thus far proven to be a
>failure.
You are really showing your ignorance by saying stem cells must come
from aborted fetuses.
Frosty
If you say so. Again, I don't care.
>
>>
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>Frosty you and I agree on a lot of things, but never will agree on
>>>>>some. Money spent on medical research is never wasted in my mind.
>>>>
>>>>I ask you then to reply to my other post on this thread, the one that
>>>>speaks of the economics of gov't vs. private funding for research.
>>>>Money spent by government on anything is wasted if one has any
>>>>understanding of how economics work vs. how many people wish they
>>>>would work.
>>>
>>>I disagree with what you said. As it stands now the drug companies
>>>make obscene profits on medications that many of us have to take every
>>>single day. Those companies deserve to be put under very strict price
>>>controls.
>>
>>I see. There is no point in debating with you further. You are one of
>>those so-called "liberals" whose minds are already made up and while
>>you and your kind always demand we capitalists "open our minds" yours
>>is so tightly closed light will not penetrate.
>
>And you are one of those Libertarians who never sees anyone else's
>point of view. So, what's your point. Ronald Reagan turned me into a
>proud liberal from the Republican that I always had been.
I learned, after being a Mc Govern supporter, and a Reagan supporter,
about economics and the free market. I have read and studies Lord
Keynes, Marx, and Smith (to name just three.) Smith rings true to my
experiences in life. Keynes and Marx do not.
Democrats (and many Republicans) and Keynesian Socialists. They
believe that it's best if government controls the means of production.
The majority of people I speak to who identify themselves as liberals
are kind, caring people who have never cracked a book save Earth in
the Balance (which I own and have read) and think Che Guevara is a
pretty cool dude. They care about Mother Earth and the plight of the
downtrodden, but never think beyond the platitudes spoon fed to them
by the Marxists who they (unknowingly) take their marching orders
from.
I have been in debate after debate with otherwise smart, caring people
who can't seem to get it through their closed minds that minimum wage
laws prevent companies from hiring the very people whom liberals say
they care about. Liberals cannot seem to grasp the fact that
government, and only government causes inflation. Liberals ignore the
fact that lower tax rates bring in more revenue in the form of taxes.
Liberals cannot understand that by putting price controls on products
it doesn't hurt the industry giants, but instead hurts the workers of
these giants and the consumer. Liberals are so blinded to the misery
and horror wrought upon the poor peoples of the earth by the various
incarnations of Marxism and continue to demand the very same miseries
be wrought upon Americans, thinking, I assume, that they will not be
effected and then blaming corporations when they are.
Gramps, I *was* a liberal. But I pulled my head out of my ass and
opened a book or two.
>
>>>
>>>>
>>>>>Do
>>>>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>>>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>>>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>>>>seam cell research?
>>>
>>>Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
>>
>>I didn't reply because you pro-abortionists
>
>Stop right there!
>Being pro-choice does not make me or anyone a pro-abortionist. There
>is a huge difference.
>
>>But the reality is, stem cell research has thus far proven to be a
>>failure.
>
>You are really showing your ignorance by saying stem cells must come
>from aborted fetuses.
Well, actually adult stem cells have shown some promise, but fetal
stem cells have not. Surely you were speaking of adult stem cells and
I erred.
Frosty
"randall" <ranh...@aol.com>, intended to write something
intelligible, but instead wrote :
Forgive the top post.
Randall,
You won't hurt my feelings if you talk down to we little people...
All your scientific mumbo jumbo makes my head hurt.
Can you rephrase all that stuff below so that a non-medical maroon
like myself can understand it?
TIA
Frosty
randall
> On 26 Feb 2007 11:02:52 -0800 in alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
> intelligible, but instead wrote :
>
> Forgive the top post.
>
> Randall,
>
> You won't hurt my feelings if you talk down to we little people...
> All your scientific mumbo jumbo makes my head hurt.
> Can you rephrase all that stuff below so that a non-medical maroon
> like myself can understand it?
>
> TIA
>
> Frosty
>
It only means I can lower my psoriasis by eating sweet whey and
selected
supplements.
If I thought that I was prone to cancer, my diet would be loaded with
Watercress (extract).
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/health/6360601.stm
And If I suspected some h. pylori in the gut, I'd add in extra virgin
olive oil,
http://living.scotsman.com/index.cfm?id=252952007
Oh wait I already suck up the EVOO like crazy. <w>
For P, i do hang my hopes on IP6, (going on a two year test)
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/2/emw502340.htm
[...]
Recently researchers at Iowa State University identified IP6 phytate
as the substance in soy that reduces non-cholesterol cardiovascular
disease risk factors (C-reactive protein, homocysteine, iron levels)
in adults. <snip>
----------
IOWs, my cocktail is sunshine, food, diet, supplements and a gram or
so a day of IP6.
Don't forget flax seed oil, fish oils, Glucosamine for HA (Hyaluronic
Acid) (a gram or two a day).
randall... oh crap! i'm getting to weird again. lol
randall
Big big NEWs today regarding H.R. 1188.
Will it wind thru the legal process and squirt out a few bucks that
actually make
a difference? Time will tell.
http://www.emediawire.com/releases/2007/2/emw507569.htm
Psoriasis Cure Now Applauds Introduction of Psoriasis Bill in Congress
"Psoriasis Cure Now," a nonprofit patient advocacy group, applauded
the introduction of H.R. 1188, the Psoriasis and Psoriatic Arthritis
Research, Cure, and Care Act of 2007, and proposed improvements to
strengthen it.
Kensington, MD (PRWeb) February 27, 2007 -- "Psoriasis Cure Now," a
nonprofit patient advocacy group, today applauded the introduction of
H.R. 1188, the Psoriasis and Psoriatic Arthritis Research, Cure, and
Care Act of 2007. The bill was introduced by Congressmen David Wu of
Oregon and Jim Gerlach of Pennsylvania.
"Congressmen David Wu and Jim Gerlach and the National Psoriasis
Foundation have done a tremendous job in developing this historic
psoriasis legislation," said Michael Paranzino, president of Psoriasis
Cure Now. "For more than a decade, psoriasis research has been
underfunded by the federal government. This legislation could help
reverse that."
Psoriasis Cure Now has released a plain-language, section-by-section
analysis of the legislation, to help psoriasis patients understand the
bill more fully. The review also proposes improvements that would
strengthen the bill as it winds its way through Congress. That
analysis is available on the web here:
http://www.psoriasis-cure-now.org/research-cure-care-act.php
"As we continue to meet with Congressional offices to educate them
about the seriousness of psoriasis, we will urge them to co-sponsor
this bill and adopt our proposed changes to strengthen it," Paranzino
added. "We hope it becomes law."
Congressman Gerlach was a Psoriasis Cure Now Health Care Advocate of
the Year winner in 2006.
---------------
Please:
Support PCN (psoriasis cure now) and the NPF (www.psoriasis.org)
randall
GrandpaChuck
On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:42:26 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
wrote:
>On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:16:14 GMT in
>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
><Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>>>If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
>>>any sense loves him (and his penis.)
>>
>>God as I understand It/Her/Him is Unconditional Love.
>>Bill Clinton was probably the smartest man to be President since I
>>became eligible to vote in 1961.
>
>If you say so. Again, I don't care.
Nor do I expect you to. However, you were the one that brought up the
subject of god, not me.
>>>I see. There is no point in debating with you further. You are one of
>>>those so-called "liberals" whose minds are already made up and while
>>>you and your kind always demand we capitalists "open our minds" yours
>>>is so tightly closed light will not penetrate.
>>
>>And you are one of those Libertarians who never sees anyone else's
>>point of view. So, what's your point. Ronald Reagan turned me into a
>>proud liberal from the Republican that I always had been.
>
>
>I learned, after being a Mc Govern supporter, and a Reagan supporter,
>about economics and the free market. I have read and studies Lord
>Keynes, Marx, and Smith (to name just three.) Smith rings true to my
>experiences in life. Keynes and Marx do not.
>Democrats (and many Republicans) and Keynesian Socialists. They
>believe that it's best if government controls the means of production.
>The majority of people I speak to who identify themselves as liberals
>are kind, caring people who have never cracked a book save Earth in
>the Balance (which I own and have read)
Good for you, I think. I have never heard of it. The title is not one
that might cause person to pick it up to see what it might be. What
is it about?
> and think Che Guevara is a
>pretty cool dude.
You gotta be joking!
>They care about Mother Earth and the plight of the
>downtrodden, but never think beyond the platitudes spoon fed to them
>by the Marxists who they (unknowingly) take their marching orders
>from.
Bullshit! Do you even know the meaning of the word liberal? Let us
take a look at it.
~lib-er-al (libr-l, librl)adj. Abbr. lib. 1. Not limited
to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian
attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for
reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and
behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic
of liberalism.
~
~---------------------------------------------------------
~Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary
~Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
Under that definition I am proud to call myself liberal.
>I have been in debate after debate with otherwise smart, caring people
>who can't seem to get it through their closed minds that minimum wage
>laws prevent companies from hiring the very people whom liberals say
>they care about.
IMNAHO minimum wage should be at least $10/hour.
> Liberals cannot seem to grasp the fact that
>government, and only government causes inflation. Liberals ignore the
>fact that lower tax rates bring in more revenue in the form of taxes.
>Liberals cannot understand that by putting price controls on products
>it doesn't hurt the industry giants, but instead hurts the workers of
>these giants and the consumer. Liberals are so blinded to the misery
>and horror wrought upon the poor peoples of the earth by the various
>incarnations of Marxism and continue to demand the very same miseries
>be wrought upon Americans, thinking, I assume, that they will not be
>effected and then blaming corporations when they are.
More of the right wing mantra with little meaning.
>
>Gramps, I *was* a liberal. But I pulled my head out of my ass and
>opened a book or two.
Are you saying I haven't? The Republican party sold out to the far
right and the fundamentalist Christian right when they nominated a
two-bit actor that couldn't utter a word that was not rehearsed first.
I was a Goldwater Republican because I believed he was honest enough
to say what he would do in Vietnam. I usually voted a split ticket
since we had a very popular Democratic governor at the time.
Indeed I did "pull my head out of my ass" when I saw what the
Republicans had planned for this country.
As for reading, I have read many, many books. Both non-fiction and
fiction. One of the most enlightening books I ever read was
"Conversations With God." I highly recommend it to anyone who does not
care to be dictated to by some person parroting a certain religious
agenda. It is neither pro nor against any organized religion. A number
of people I have suggested they might like reading the book have and
enjoyed it. I have had a couple of people who refused because they
were afraid to think for themselves when it was easier to be dictated
to by their preacher. (One is one of my daughters.)
>>
>>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>Do
>>>>>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>>>>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>>>>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>>>>>seam cell research?
>>>>
>>>>Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
>>>
>>>I didn't reply because you pro-abortionists
>>
>>Stop right there!
>>Being pro-choice does not make me or anyone a pro-abortionist. There
>>is a huge difference.
>>
>>>But the reality is, stem cell research has thus far proven to be a
>>>failure.
>>
>>You are really showing your ignorance by saying stem cells must come
>>from aborted fetuses.
>
>Well, actually adult stem cells have shown some promise, but fetal
>stem cells have not. Surely you were speaking of adult stem cells and
>I erred.
And what about stem cells taken from umbilical cords? From what I have
heard they show even more promise. On the other hand why not use
frozen fetuses that will otherwise be thrown in the garbage? How many
diseases do you have that are controllable, but terminal without
proper care that might be cured or prevented through stem cell
research?
As far as being pro-abortion goes aren't you old enough to remember
the horrors of back alley and self-inflicted abortions that killed
many, many poor women? I am not pro-abortion at all; I am pro-choice
because I know what will happen if abortions are made illegal again.
You still avoided answering my question, "Do you have any idea how
many people die due to depression every year brought on by this
disease?"
Are we having fun yet? ;-)
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 27, 2007 is 3,161. United Kingdom = 132 Other = 124.
As of February 27, 2007 it has been 1416 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
Frosty
"randall" <ranh...@aol.com>, intended to write something
intelligible, but instead wrote :
>On Feb 26, 7:47 pm, Frosty < claus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>> On 26 Feb 2007 11:02:52 -0800 in alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
>> "randall" <ranhu...@aol.com>, intended to write something
>> intelligible, but instead wrote :
>>
>> Forgive the top post.
>>
>> Randall,
>>
>> You won't hurt my feelings if you talk down to we little people...
>> All your scientific mumbo jumbo makes my head hurt.
>> Can you rephrase all that stuff below so that a non-medical maroon
>> like myself can understand it?
>>
>> TIA
>>
>> Frosty
>>
>
>It only means I can lower my psoriasis by eating sweet whey and
>selected
>supplements.
Thanx
>
>If I thought that I was prone to cancer, my diet would be loaded with
>Watercress (extract).
The Chinese make a soup out of watercress that is delicious!
If you've never had watercress soup you haven't lived!
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>This thread needs to be marked OT, so I did.
>
>On Mon, 26 Feb 2007 22:42:26 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>>On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:16:14 GMT in
>>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
>><Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>
>>>>If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
>>>>any sense loves him (and his penis.)
>>>
>>>God as I understand It/Her/Him is Unconditional Love.
>>>Bill Clinton was probably the smartest man to be President since I
>>>became eligible to vote in 1961.
>>
>>If you say so. Again, I don't care.
>
>Nor do I expect you to. However, you were the one that brought up the
>subject of god, not me.
No, YOU brought up the subject of God. I said Bill was A god. See the
difference??
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>This thread needs to be marked OT, so I did.
>
<snip>
>
>>>>I see. There is no point in debating with you further. You are one of
>>>>those so-called "liberals" whose minds are already made up and while
>>>>you and your kind always demand we capitalists "open our minds" yours
>>>>is so tightly closed light will not penetrate.
>>>
>>>And you are one of those Libertarians who never sees anyone else's
>>>point of view. So, what's your point. Ronald Reagan turned me into a
>>>proud liberal from the Republican that I always had been.
>>
>>
>>I learned, after being a Mc Govern supporter, and a Reagan supporter,
>>about economics and the free market. I have read and studies Lord
>>Keynes, Marx, and Smith (to name just three.) Smith rings true to my
>>experiences in life. Keynes and Marx do not.
>>Democrats (and many Republicans) and Keynesian Socialists. They
>>believe that it's best if government controls the means of production.
>>The majority of people I speak to who identify themselves as liberals
>>are kind, caring people who have never cracked a book save Earth in
>>the Balance (which I own and have read)
>
>Good for you, I think. I have never heard of it. The title is not one
>that might cause person to pick it up to see what it might be. What
>is it about?
>
It's written by Algore, you know the guy who says the US has to be
less productive and pay higher taxes to gov't so we don't destroy the
planet with global warming?
>> and think Che Guevara is a
>>pretty cool dude.
>
>You gotta be joking!
No I'm not. The left. Gotta love 'em! http://www.che-lives.com/home/
>
>>They care about Mother Earth and the plight of the
>>downtrodden, but never think beyond the platitudes spoon fed to them
>>by the Marxists who they (unknowingly) take their marching orders
>>from.
>
>Bullshit! Do you even know the meaning of the word liberal? Let us
>take a look at it.
>
>~lib-er-al (libr-l, librl)adj. Abbr. lib. 1. Not limited
>to or by established, traditional, orthodox, or authoritarian
>attitudes, views, or dogmas; free from bigotry. Favoring proposals for
>reform, open to new ideas for progress, and tolerant of the ideas and
>behavior of others; broad-minded. Of, relating to, or characteristic
>of liberalism.
>~
>~---------------------------------------------------------
>~Excerpted from American Heritage Talking Dictionary
>~Copyright © 1997 The Learning Company, Inc. All Rights Reserved.
>
Bah! Pablum. Here's a real definition, but it doesn't outline what the
American Marxists have done to the concept,
http://www.econlib.org/library/YPDBooks/Lalor/llCy652.html
>Under that definition I am proud to call myself liberal.
>
>>I have been in debate after debate with otherwise smart, caring people
>>who can't seem to get it through their closed minds that minimum wage
>>laws prevent companies from hiring the very people whom liberals say
>>they care about.
>
>IMNAHO minimum wage should be at least $10/hour.
Why? Why are you such a tightwad? Why not make it $1000 and hour??
Don't you think the poor should make as much as the rich?
Seriously though, the economic reasons you would use to correctly
argue that $1000 and hour would be bad for the economy are the exact
same and correct reasons why AND arbitrary amount will wreck the
economy in exactly the same way, albeit slower.
>
>> Liberals cannot seem to grasp the fact that
>>government, and only government causes inflation. Liberals ignore the
>>fact that lower tax rates bring in more revenue in the form of taxes.
>>Liberals cannot understand that by putting price controls on products
>>it doesn't hurt the industry giants, but instead hurts the workers of
>>these giants and the consumer. Liberals are so blinded to the misery
>>and horror wrought upon the poor peoples of the earth by the various
>>incarnations of Marxism and continue to demand the very same miseries
>>be wrought upon Americans, thinking, I assume, that they will not be
>>effected and then blaming corporations when they are.
>
>More of the right wing mantra with little meaning.
So you are unable to refute my statements and so resort to ad hominem
attacks? Typical of your kind.
>
>>
>>Gramps, I *was* a liberal. But I pulled my head out of my ass and
>>opened a book or two.
>
>Are you saying I haven't? The Republican party sold out to the far
>right and the fundamentalist Christian right when they nominated a
>two-bit actor that couldn't utter a word that was not rehearsed first.
>I was a Goldwater Republican because I believed he was honest enough
>to say what he would do in Vietnam. I usually voted a split ticket
>since we had a very popular Democratic governor at the time.
>
>Indeed I did "pull my head out of my ass" when I saw what the
>Republicans had planned for this country.
>
>As for reading, I have read many, many books. Both non-fiction and
>fiction. One of the most enlightening books I ever read was
>"Conversations With God." I highly recommend it to anyone who does not
>care to be dictated to by some person parroting a certain religious
>agenda. It is neither pro nor against any organized religion. A number
>of people I have suggested they might like reading the book have and
>enjoyed it. I have had a couple of people who refused because they
>were afraid to think for themselves when it was easier to be dictated
>to by their preacher. (One is one of my daughters.)
And I recommend Friedrich A. von Hayek's "The Road to Serfdom", Henry
Hazlitt's "Economics In One Lesson" and Ludwig von Mises' "Human
Action. A Treatise on Economics"
Email me offlist and I'll email all three to you.
I prefer non-fiction.
>>>
>>>>>
>>>>>>
>>>>>>>Do
>>>>>>>you have any idea how many people die due to depression every year
>>>>>>>brought on by this disease? How about other preventable and non
>>>>>>>preventable diseases that cures might be found for with things such as
>>>>>>>seam cell research?
>>>>>
>>>>>Hmm, you reply to that paragraph seems to be missing.
>>>>
>>>>I didn't reply because you pro-abortionists
>>>
>>>Stop right there!
>>>Being pro-choice does not make me or anyone a pro-abortionist. There
>>>is a huge difference.
>>>
>>>>But the reality is, stem cell research has thus far proven to be a
>>>>failure.
>>>
>>>You are really showing your ignorance by saying stem cells must come
>>>from aborted fetuses.
>>
>>Well, actually adult stem cells have shown some promise, but fetal
>>stem cells have not. Surely you were speaking of adult stem cells and
>>I erred.
>
>And what about stem cells taken from umbilical cords? From what I have
>heard they show even more promise.
Cite?
How 'bout this one:
"Mesenchymal progenitor cells in human umbilical cord blood"
A Erices, P Conget, JJ Minguell… - British Journal of Haematology,
2000 - Blackwell Synergy
"... Adult bone marrow is a rich source of human mesenchymal 'stem'
cells but umbilical cord and mobilized adult blood are not."
http://www.blackwell-synergy.com/doi/abs/10.1046/j.1365-2141.2000.01986.x?journalCode=bjh
>On the other hand why not use
>frozen fetuses that will otherwise be thrown in the garbage? How many
>diseases do you have that are controllable, but terminal without
>proper care that might be cured or prevented through stem cell
>research?
I don't know, Doctor. How many? Oh what? You're not a doctor? Not even
involved in medicine at all, yet you *know* that fetal tissue might
cure diseases?
>
>As far as being pro-abortion goes aren't you old enough to remember
>the horrors of back alley and self-inflicted abortions that killed
>many, many poor women? I am not pro-abortion at all; I am pro-choice
>because I know what will happen if abortions are made illegal again.
And I too am pro choice..on everything.
>
>You still avoided answering my question, "Do you have any idea how
>many people die due to depression every year brought on by this
>disease?"
Depression is sad. No, I don't know, but more (or less) importantly, I
don't care.
I'll be anxious to read why you disagree with raising the minimum wage
to $1000 an hour.
marika
marika
> On 26 Feb 2007 23:52:09 -0800 in alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
> "randall" <ranh...@aol.com>, intended to write something
> intelligible, but instead wrote :
>
>> On Feb 26, 7:47 pm, Frosty < claus...@yahoo.com> wrote:
>>> On 26 Feb 2007 11:02:52 -0800 in alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
>>> "randall" <ranhu...@aol.com>, intended to write something
>>> intelligible, but instead wrote :
>>>
>>> Forgive the top post.
>>>
>>> Randall,
>>>
>>> You won't hurt my feelings if you talk down to we little people...
>>> All your scientific mumbo jumbo makes my head hurt.
>>> Can you rephrase all that stuff below so that a non-medical maroon
>>> like myself can understand it?
>>>
>>> TIA
>>>
>>> Frosty
>>>
>>
>> It only means I can lower my psoriasis by eating sweet whey and
>> selected
>> supplements.
>
> Thanx
>>
>> If I thought that I was prone to cancer, my diet would be loaded with
>> Watercress (extract).
>
> The Chinese make a soup out of watercress that is delicious!
is there any noodles or meatballs in it
Even if you didn’t, I’d come across it before:
> If you've never had watercress soup you haven't lived!
‘
http://www.phobe.com/fsmhat/index.html
not realizing what all was behind it. I’d made fun of that before, but
too lazy to hit the pastafarian link .. . it may be time to try to make
this . . .
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis marika <mce...@mindspring.com>,
intended to write something intelligible, but instead wrote :
>>
>> The Chinese make a soup out of watercress that is delicious!
Watercress Soup
http://www.watercress.com/
Ingredients:
B&W Watercress: 3 to 4 bunches;
Pork: 1/2 lb;
Pork bones: 1 lb;
Black mushroom: 2 pcs
Seasonings:
Salt: 2 teaspoons;
Ginger: 4 slices;
Dried honeyed date: 2 pcs
Seasonings (when serving):
Soy sauce: some
Preparation:
1) Chop pork bones into pieces to fit in the pot, soak black mushroom
in water till soft, remove stems.
2) Add 8 cups of water to a pot, add in all ingredients (except for
salt and soy sauce), bring to a boil. Then reduce to slow heat, cook
for about 1 1/2 hours. Remove pork bones and oil that gathered at the
top of the soup. Add in salt (if preferable) and serve. Watercress and
pork may be served on a plate, with a bit of soy sauce on the side.
>
>is there any noodles or meatballs in it
You may put whatever you like in it. Noodles are good in everything,
IMO.
randall
> On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 18:37:59 GMT in
> alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
> instead wrote :
>
>
>
> >This thread needs to be marked OT, so I did.
>
>
>
> >wrote:
>
> >>On Tue, 27 Feb 2007 01:16:14 GMT in
> >>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
>
> >>>>If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
> >>>>any sense loves him (and his penis.)
>
> >>>God as I understand It/Her/Him is Unconditional Love.
> >>>Bill Clinton was probably the smartest man to be President since I
> >>>became eligible to vote in 1961.
>
> >>If you say so. Again, I don't care.
>
> >Nor do I expect you to. However, you were the one that brought up the
> >subject of god, not me.
>
> No, YOU brought up the subject of God. I said Bill was A god. See the
> difference??
I'll let frosty handle this. But I would like to throw out some ideas.
Not that frosty didn't
rock on his last post. But $1000.00 on the MW sounds a little
inflationary. lol
First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
would solve a few
problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
Second: Good Gawd!
Give Bill and his crooked unHOLY penis a rest already. He's kicking
down big $'s now and hilly has to be happy about that, while she plies
her democratic tea party for the oval office.
Yet this is about hillary, not bill. I'll bring back up his wages
later in this spin city post.
And with nancy pelosi putting up flanking maneuvers for the senator
from new york, she should
be looking more presidential then she does IMO. Once again the press
opens their yaps and
the pap is mere detritus on the political landscape. Only a bigger
political smear job can fend off bills
blow jobs. LOL
That she is running at all shows more nuts then most guys can cop to.
What are hillybillies 2008 oval office/747/white house chances?
According to,
Dick Moris, she was a lock a few weeks back. I wonder where serpent
head is on this?
If they've already lost the hollywooders to Barack bin lama, so what?
http://www.oscars.org/publications/poster78/index.html
Aren't they all headless phallus's according to this poster? Or does
the woman dress up
the man regardless of his stunning tuxedo? They may have well had the
invisible man
and woman dressed in finery holding those oscars. I vote for Saul Bass
and his academy
posters. Sorry for that segue. I'll try to run with the theme. May as
well.
(can you tell me the two holding those oscars? see the end of this
post-^^)
Still, does hillary dress up their oscar poster no matter how crooked
bill looks/is? Or does
she distance herself when necessary or politically expedient?
If algore can't trick the holly woods in to supporting him, who can?
But,
I really wonder if Al Gore can translate his deep felt enviromental
longings in to an oval
office 4 year stint? Or eight for that matters?
And these flunkies made fun of Newt for having to ride in the back of
the 747? LOL
Don't laugh, they may get another 4/8/16 year 747 ride at taxpayer's
expense!
Who is the true opposition in this leftist battle?
How big is Al's ego compared to Bill's? Not to mention the peyronie's
apparitions hanging over
his head. lol
Al was forced in to alpha male training by his campaign manager iirc.
What a blow to his
ego when folks found out that tid bit of boob bait.
Did hillary leak that? I wouldn't put it past her. And didn't Al leak
the Gary Hart donna rice scandal to blow his chances and increase
Al's? Or did I read that wrongly many moons ago?
Let's see:: Bill was the bigest jerk off prez (besides the smartest?)
and algore will be the largest bore. Or how about dork?
And how long will he waste time trying to convince us a la carter that
he wasn't?
Al had to be dorkier then Bush to lose in 2000? Right? And if jerking
leftwards Bill was a liability for gore then, why isn't he now? Folks
act like BC is some sort of asset? Not just a complete ass.
Haven't the smart and ultra rich folks in hollywood decided to back
BARACK instead of the
clintons?
Yet look at the rest of the world and how they see AL-Dork and Jerking
smirking Bill. That is how
they see them isn't it? Without filters from the popular press
obviously. Yet they've done the
ju-jitsu and put this moniker on the right. And they wear it like
school girls, or worse little
school boys.
Why do you think the muslim terrorists felt we were riPe for a knock
on the WTC and pentagon?
Having blown prior attempts they had to show their hearts were in it
and they could finalize
their terroristic ambitions.
The stock market took a huge hit as well when it reopened after 911.
But how much larger
then today's 400 plus point fiasco?
While the muslims died for their beliefs willingly, they felt we
didn't have any. They still think they can pull the wool over the
lefts eyes now! And i'm not so sure they haven't done it.
And besides,
What is BC's legacy? Without hilly in the oval office, it
deteriorates? And fades faster then
his prodigious cranial capacities will bear, if your so inclined to
believe in that bit of tripe.
The king has no clothes comes to mind, literally. While most are happy
to
let the media blind their eyes and minds, not all succumb to this bums
bum rush! <w>
And the robotic dorkster algore is citizen bland without any rosebud?
How does one dress him up if not with an oscar?
Give him a nobel peace prize?
But,
Will more then 50% of the electorate vote for a robot with
an oscar and nobel peace prize?
Certainly citizen al has no sparkle like famed Billy boy,
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Citizenkane.jpg
Will al gore be stripped again?
http://media.monstersandcritics.com/articles/1269749/article_images/headline_1172540693.jpg
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/17364373/site/newsweek/
With Al Gore a possible 2008 contender for Prez, and
a nobel peace prize looming, I found this downunder hit piece
interesting.
Or is it all-- just talk about the weather or *nothing* at all?
Here's a tiP with a goreish triP,
While all politics is local, mother earth is everywhere.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/national/greenhouse-sceptics-to-congregate/2007/02/27/1172338625822.html
Greenhouse sceptics to congregate
Katharine Murphy and Brendan Nicholson, Canberra and Richard Baker
February 28, 2007
HARD-CORE global warming sceptics will descend on Canberra today for
the release of a book claiming environmentalism is the new religion.
(randall note: so, if you love mother earth you reject your father in
heaven? lol)
Former mining executive Arvi Parbo will launch Ray Evans' new
publication, Nine Facts About Climate Change, at a function at
Parliament House.
The book claims climate change is nothing new and declares Howard
Government investments in solar power and in cleaning up coal a
"complete waste of taxpayers' money".
(randall note: so bush is wasting US taxpayer's $'s? why wouldn't that
surprise me?)
"Environmentalism has largely superseded Christianity as the religion
of the upper classes in Europe and to a lesser extent in the United
States," Mr Evans says in the publication.
(randall note: The magic christian is now having an affair with
*earth mother* -GAIA? Or are they
simply out to rape her with nuclear power plants, pock marking her
face?)
(randall note: Gore and Gaia:
http://www.cmonitor.com/apps/pbcs.dll/article?AID=/20070214/REPOSITORY/702140356/1029/OPINION03
or:: http://tinyurl.com/2vgmo9 ; )
"It is a form of religious belief which fosters a sense of moral
superiority in the believer, but which places no importance on telling
the truth," he says.
"The global warming scam has been, arguably, the most extraordinary
example of scientific fraud in the postwar period."
The function is organised by the Lavoisier Group, founded in 2000 by
Ray Evans and former mining executive Hugh Morgan to test claims that
global warming is the result of human activity.
Mr Evans is a longstanding friend and colleague of Mr Morgan and a
committed activist on issues such as workplace reform through the HR
Nicholls Society, which he founded with federal Treasurer Peter
Costello.
Former Labor minister Peter Walsh also will attend today's function,
and the group will hold a dinner to be addressed by climate-change
sceptic Chris de Freitas, Associate Professor in the School of
Geography, Geology and Environmental Science at Auckland University.
Liberal MP Dennis Jensen has organised the function on behalf of the
Lavoisier Group and expects about 50 people to attend the dinner.
Dr Jensen, a nuclear physicist, has said he is not convinced that
human activity is responsible for global warming.
In an interview with The Age last month, Mr Evans acknowledged that
last September's visit by former US vice-president Al Gore to promote
his Oscar-winning global-warming documentary An Inconvenient Truth had
helped generate a lot of publicity on climate change.
But he described Mr Gore's film as "bullshit from beginning to end".
"The science from the anthropology point of view has collapsed. The
carbon-dioxide link is increasingly recognised as irrelevant," Mr
Evans said.
"But the Government's frightened.
"Cabinet, from what I understand, is by and large still sceptical of
climate change, but it is scared of the drought and worried about how
Labor will make use of it."
_______________
So? Labor will spin even a lie? LOL
Tell me it's not so.
------------------
Aren't these OZ dudes close to the antarctic? Don't they know what's
going on with the antarctic ice shelf? And what about the polar bears
and Tasmanian devils?
Am I confused or what?
I'm going to look for links with actual scientists and al gores
politically convenient movie:
http://www.physicsforums.com/showthread.php?t=127893
&
don't miss the double hockey stick graph on the bottom of this page,
http://phaster.com/war_is_good/
Funny cartoon:
http://www.standrewsbythesea.org/Photos/InconvientTruth.jpg
Is it all propaganda to get al gore elected?
http://abstractdynamics.org/2006/05/wired_al_gore.php
The wikipedia doesn't have a political interest in this, does it?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/An_Inconvenient_Truth
to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Retreat_of_glaciers_since_1850
to
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_scientists_opposing_global_warming_consensus
Check out the judges for Branson's save the earth prize,
http://green.itweek.co.uk/2007/02/bransons_climat.html
And for more flat earth religious scientific environmentalism or *much
ado about noting*:
http://commentisfree.guardian.co.uk/mark_vernon/2007/02/conservative_evangelicals_typi.html
(*maan*) __noting__: is (Gaia)- mother earth becoming a warmed out
greenhouse whore?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing#Noting
from:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Much_Ado_About_Nothing
Is the double entendre on us? Will mother earth flake us off like
fleas on a cold and wet shaking dog?
Will the world without people be the tired old whore we've turned her
in to? Or have we?
Or is it simply politics to get al gore elected in 2008? Is he a
humanist, scientist or a tricky dick politician?
Al says, save the world, the republicans are getting rich on oil, so
vote for a democrat who cares about your mother gaia? Will that
connect with people or just Hollywood people at the academy awards?
Which way does a thinking monkey go? The press offers a definite flow
to the left.
VOTE for?
The fireball whorshipping, oil burning paternalism of the religious
right or the virgin earth mother loving
socialist, statist humanistic leftists? Hot or cold? Evil or eviler?
Certainly a conundrum for all the capistalist free living westerner's?
Yet,
Don't we all worship the buck-$ as our salvation?
Look at bill and his never ending speech quest for dollars.
Are we ready willing and able to take advantage of trends?
http://www.2000wave.com/index.asp
Even on a day when the markets take a 400+ point droP on the dow?
Bill Clinton took the markets to a 2000 crescendo. Will Bush, Gore or?
preside over the next market top?
I predicted al gore would nudge george bush in 2000. I was right on
the popular vote and
wrong on the electorals.
And even then the press smeared the right till they paid for their own
recount proving them wrong.
Yet the left still hasn't gotten that message.
Hatred seems to gestate zealots without any hope of aborting these
fanatics.
Will Al nudge his repub rival in 2008?
Can Rudy beat hillary or al gore? Would hillary take the vp spot on a
gore/hillary ticket?
Wouldn't folks opt for a first woman on the ticket to be first a VP?
Or do the dems believe they
have a lock?
If hilly goes for vp, then hillbilly could run for prez in 2016?
And does the pecuniary aspiring Bill Clinton fly private jet (aka-spew
carbon dioxide: CO2) to all of his presidential speeches where he's
made $40 million so far? How about his secret service detail? Do they
fly first class or private jet with bill as well? How many Millions
does it cost the taxpayers for bill to game the tax system?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/blake-fleetwood/bill-clintons-brilliant-_b_42162.html
Recall how the press went ape crap when prez Reagan took a $2M fee for
speaking in Japan.
Did they lower the bar for Bill Clinton and his fast $40M? I guess
when you don't condemn
someone for jerking off in the oval office all other bets are off as
well.
Lets see. How does a prez hide his income? Oh yes, put it in to your
prez foundation? Tax free?
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2007/02/23/clintons-speaking-fees-n_n_41931.html
But one speech a day means 720 airline flights a year. That's a crap
load of CO2 going in to
the ozone. While algore is speaking seeking green house gas to get
elected, bill is spreading it over the whole globe?
Do actions really speak louder then words?
Yes. It says,
I'll fly up your butt for your votes and $$$'s....and then hide it tax
free in my foundation. I'll even
have my minions steal the truth about my foreign policy security
regarding bin laden and al qaeda.
http://libertyfiles.blogspot.com/2005/01/sandy-burger-fried.html
http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-bloggers/1461397/posts
http://www.petitiononline.com/sbt2004/petition.html
Their al liars? Or are they?
Does someone want us to simply vote for the sexiest sounding person?
Are all the presidents taking us down a rat hole and by implication
the dem hole is
the least evil in this paradigm?
After all they won the house by saying the other side was worse then
them. No platforms
only finger pointing.
So vote for the dem who won't take you down a capitalist pig rat hole?
Or are all the liberals taking us down it without us knowing it?
Is the electorate being snookered by the press and politicians?
How much freedom do we still have then?
What are you doing with your freedom today?
A nice freedom story from russia with love, last month (jan-2007 issue-
imprimis):
http://www.hillsdale.edu/imprimis/2007/01/
http://bailey.aros.net/nature/images/Ground%20Squirrel.jpg
"Don't two time mother earth for your own pecuniary gain!"
&
"And leave my nuts alone!"
Fear and Greed are continual problems from government employees.
Pimping mother earth for an oval office stint seems like something a
bizarre robot dork would do.
randall-- use your freedom wisely or even a blind acorn finds a
squirrel
( ^^ ):
(the two holding the oscars in the 78th acadamey awards poster: cary
grant and audrey hepburn iirc)
Frosty
"randall" <ranh...@aol.com>, intended to write something
intelligible, but instead wrote :
>>
>> >>>>If it makes you feel better, Bill Clinton is a god and everyone with
>> >>>>any sense loves him (and his penis.)
>>
>> >>>God as I understand It/Her/Him is Unconditional Love.
>> >>>Bill Clinton was probably the smartest man to be President since I
>> >>>became eligible to vote in 1961.
>>
>> >>If you say so. Again, I don't care.
>>
>> >Nor do I expect you to. However, you were the one that brought up the
>> >subject of god, not me.
>>
>> No, YOU brought up the subject of God. I said Bill was A god. See the
>> difference??
>
>I'll let frosty handle this. But I would like to throw out some ideas.
>Not that frosty didn't
>rock on his last post. But $1000.00 on the MW sounds a little
>inflationary. lol
$10 an hour IS inflationary!
That's what I'm trying to get Comrad Gramps to see, but he's stuck in
the "liberal" (read socialist) mindset and won't try to dig his way
out.
>
>First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
>would solve a few
>problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
I agree but with one change: The MAXIMUM wage should be $0 an hour.
Let the bastards EARN a living, not be just given one like some
welfare whore.
>
>Second: Good Gawd!
>
>Give Bill and his crooked unHOLY penis a rest already.
<snip>
LOL!
GrandpaChuck
wrote:
>
>$10 an hour IS inflationary!
>That's what I'm trying to get Comrad Gramps to see, but he's stuck in
>the "liberal" (read socialist) mindset and won't try to dig his way
>out.
First of all Frosty, I resent you flaming me by calling me "Comrad."
Actually I believe the minimum wage should be high enough for one wage
earner to support himself/herself, a spouse and at least one child.
Ten dollars per hour even with benefits is not nearly enough to do
that in any area of the United States that I know of.
>>
>>First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
>>would solve a few
>>problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
>
>I agree but with one change: The MAXIMUM wage should be $0 an hour.
Don't they have such a cap on executive wages in Japan?
>Let the bastards EARN a living, not be just given one like some
>welfare whore.
You are showing your ignorance about modern day welfare practices.
Here in Iowa there is a time limit, I believe two years. They also
MUST either get a job to get off welfare or go to a trade
school/community college to learn a trade before the end of their
grant. I have a DIL who comes from a welfare family in an eastern
state. Her two sisters and one niece that live here have gone through
our local community college and all three now do work and earn enough
to support their children. They all feel much better about themselves.
Do you not have any workfare programs where you live? We can either
strive to bring people out of poverty or spend more money on them by
incarcerating them for selling drugs, etc. in a effort to make a
living. Consider the costs of doing that.
When I first heard about the Libertarian Party I thought they sounded
like a good and caring political movement. Then I got to know a few
people who call themselves Libertarian. If anything they are even more
greedy then the far right Repugs. They don't think they should have to
pay for roads or any other public properties and services they use.
Yesterday on the Today Show they had a segment on college age kids
being the "Me first" generation. Hell, the Libertarians have been
doing that for a very long time. They don't believe in having any
social responsibilities to those less fortunate at all. They would
love to see us go back to the Dark Ages morals of let the poor die or
put them in work-houses, aka Concentration Camps.
I happen to believe we can have free enterprise and a guaranteed
annual wage at the same time. I am not talking about a Utopian Society
at all. What I am talking about is a country free of hunger,
homelessness and want.
Frosty, you lowered yourself to flaming insults by referring to me as
Comrad Gramps - a very demeaning label - and yet you expect respect.
Talk about a double standard. Usually people as uncaring as you are
deserve no respect.
You concern yourself way, way too much with things you have no control
over at all. Remember the Serenity Prayer?
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 27, 2007 is 3,161. United Kingdom = 132 Other = 124.
As of February 28, 2007 it has been 1417 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
randall
>
> >First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
> >would solve a few
> >problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
Whoops. I meant to say the MAXIMUM wage for X presidents be $10.00 an
hour. We certainly could keep the Minimum at $0.
That would change the system from those like Bill who game the system
and use tax law to defraud the taxpayers.
After all he's become a one man enron in the government, the cheating
lying reprobate.
>
> I agree but with one change: The MAXIMUM wage should be $0 an hour.
> Let the bastards EARN a living, not be just given one like some
> welfare whore.
Amen. And when we figure out how to give someone the genes for p.
We'll be cured and those who cheat will be given the genes for P.
Talk about a scarlet letter! They'll have the white flaky scarlet skin
for all to see.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Scarlet_Letter
While some may think it's cruel and unusual punishment, i'd aver to
say
they be made to face their crimes. Haven't we? By default due to a
genetic
glitch?
Yet, the hollywooders would wear it with pride!
randall.. oh well... rant over!
Tom Trevathan
I lived in Sioux City, Iowa from 1969-1986. Iowans are down to earth, hard
working, and for the most part very sensible.
Tom Trevathan
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
>On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:43:23 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>
>>$10 an hour IS inflationary!
>>That's what I'm trying to get Comrad Gramps to see, but he's stuck in
>>the "liberal" (read socialist) mindset and won't try to dig his way
>>out.
>
>First of all Frosty, I resent you flaming me by calling me "Comrad."
Why? The philosophy you espouse is straight-up Socialism.
Why won't you admit it? Why do you want to sully the good name of
Liberalism by telling us you are a liberal when you are not?
>
>Actually I believe the minimum wage should be high enough for one wage
>earner to support himself/herself, a spouse and at least one child.
>Ten dollars per hour even with benefits is not nearly enough to do
>that in any area of the United States that I know of.
Right. In plain English you think it's perfectly justifiable for a
group of thugs with guns who call themselves a government to FORCE
employers at gun point if necessary, to give some arbitrary amount of
money to people with no skills. Well guess what happens? Employees
either hire entry level workers at that salary and raise their prices,
automate, work present employees harder, or go out of business.
Unlike under Socialism, Capitalism lets the market set prices for
everything fairly.
>
>>>
>>>First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
>>>would solve a few
>>>problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
>>
>>I agree but with one change: The MAXIMUM wage should be $0 an hour.
>
>Don't they have such a cap on executive wages in Japan?
They probably do. That's one reason their economy is steadily going
into the toilet.
>
>>Let the bastards EARN a living, not be just given one like some
>>welfare whore.
>
>You are showing your ignorance about modern day welfare practices.
You're showing your inability to read.
I said let POLITICIANS earn a living and not be welfare whores.
Politicians don't provide a service or a product. They push paper
around and use the police powers to extract money from people using
FORCE.
<snip>
>
>When I first heard about the Libertarian Party I thought they sounded
>like a good and caring political movement. Then I got to know a few
>people who call themselves Libertarian. If anything they are even more
>greedy then the far right Repugs.
"Greed" is a Socialist code-word. Those who use it and who fancy
themselves "caring liberals" and not Socialists use it incorrectly.
They assume it's a bad trait, yet when they exhibit "greed" and
"selfishness" they simply don't see it (or maybe refuse to admit it!)
For example, when a liberal goes shopping for groceries, he, like
anyone else, chooses the best bargains for the money. He squeezes the
produce, compares prices for a given product and chooses the best
using his criteria. When he hires people to wash his car, mow his
lawn, tutor his children, paint his house, re-roof his home, etc. he
doesn't make his choices based upon the needs of the grocery store
owner or employees (they would like him to buy the most expensive
items and the worst produce.) He doesn't shop for roofers based upon
the needs of the workers, nor does he use this yardstick when hiring
any other laborer. In short, he exhibits all the traits he accuses
others of. He sneers at the selfish, greedy business owner who wants
to get the most work out of an employee for the least amount of pay
while taking into consideration that a SKILLED employee can always go
off in search of greener pastures. Yet when he hires someone to work
for him, does he pay based upon the needs of those he hires or does he
base his offer of salary upon how much HE values their labors?
>They don't think they should have to
>pay for roads or any other public properties and services they use.
You're incorrect.
We don't think there should be any "public properties" but we strongly
believe that we should pay for everything we use.
>Yesterday on the Today Show they had a segment on college age kids
>being the "Me first" generation. Hell, the Libertarians have been
>doing that for a very long time. They don't believe in having any
>social responsibilities to those less fortunate at all.
Again you're incorrect.
We believe in voluntarily helping people in need.
What we don't believe in is using force to make people care for others
in need.
That's the big difference between libertarians and the Socialist left
(and right.) We believe it is ALWAYS wrong to use force or the threat
of force, or fraud to accomplish any social, personal, or political
goal.
You on the other hand, call yourself a caring and compassionate man,
but see absolutely nothing wrong with using violent force against
peaceful people.
My calling you 'Comrade" is so much nicer than the way I really feel
about you Communists (which is really what a Socialist is.)
Your kind is a cancer on mankind and so many millions of humans have
been killed and hurt and their lives ruined because of your side's
cruelty masquerading as kindness in order to gain power over your
fellowman.
>They would
>love to see us go back to the Dark Ages morals of let the poor die or
>put them in work-houses, aka Concentration Camps.
The poor in America are so much better off than some of the
middle-class in many countries in the world. But in a free-market
(libertarian) system, there would be very few truly needy people, and
if your kinds wasn't constantly trying to steal our earnings, we'd
have so much more money to spend on those needy that no government
assistance would be needed. If there was no artificial minimum wage,
people could once again take on apprentices. I learned my craft under
a master craftsman and I worked for him "under the table" so that I
could learn the skills since I couldn't afford college. Your kind
happily destroyed the legal practice of apprenticeship. Way to go!
>
>I happen to believe we can have free enterprise and a guaranteed
>annual wage at the same time.
Well you happen to be wrong. You can either have Communist or
Capitalism. Actually, you must have capitalism before you can have
Socialism/Communism because there must first be some wealth to
redistribute, and private wealth cannot be created if there is no such
thing as private property.
In your system the state owns the means of production, and if those
'means of production' (labor) do not own themselves or the fruits of
their labors, they have no incentives to produce more.
> I am not talking about a Utopian Society
>at all. What I am talking about is a country free of hunger,
>homelessness and want.
That is the very definition of a Utopia.
>
>Frosty, you lowered yourself to flaming insults by referring to me as
>Comrade Gramps - a very demeaning label - and yet you expect respect.
>Talk about a double standard. Usually people as uncaring as you are
>deserve no respect.
I realize that people like you must be self-haters and so cannot do
other than hate others. I don't desire your respect. To be respected
by you I would have to be a Marxist and I am certainly not one of
those!
I care deeply for human beings, but animals who would use deadly force
to accomplish social or political goals are less than human in my eyes
and I can only pity you.
And for the rest of you who believe like Comrade Schicklegruber here,
I pity you as well. But I will happily take you on here. There's
always hope.
>
>You concern yourself way, way too much with things you have no control
>over at all. Remember the Serenity Prayer?
God, grant me the Serenity to accept the people I cannot change,
the Courage to change the one I can,
and the Wisdom to know it's me.
Frosty
--
Exelthe ofi katiramene, dhioti an dhen exelthe essy,
tha se exelthe ego!
GrandpaChuck
wrote:
>On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 18:23:48 GMT in
>alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
><Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
>instead wrote :
>
>>On Wed, 28 Feb 2007 09:43:23 -0500, Frosty < clau...@yahoo.com>
>>wrote:
>>
>>
>>>
>>>$10 an hour IS inflationary!
>>>That's what I'm trying to get Comrad Gramps to see, but he's stuck in
>>>the "liberal" (read socialist) mindset and won't try to dig his way
>>>out.
>>
>>First of all Frosty, I resent you flaming me by calling me "Comrad."
>
>Why? The philosophy you espouse is straight-up Socialism.
Bullshit.
I do not believe that the government should own corporations and even
small businesses.
>Why won't you admit it? Why do you want to sully the good name of
>Liberalism by telling us you are a liberal when you are not?
That is not for you to say.
You are simply trolling me.
>
>>
>>Actually I believe the minimum wage should be high enough for one wage
>>earner to support himself/herself, a spouse and at least one child.
>>Ten dollars per hour even with benefits is not nearly enough to do
>>that in any area of the United States that I know of.
>
>Right. In plain English you think it's perfectly justifiable for a
>group of thugs with guns who call themselves a government to FORCE
>employers at gun point if necessary, to give some arbitrary amount of
>money to people with no skills. Well guess what happens? Employees
>either hire entry level workers at that salary and raise their prices,
>automate, work present employees harder, or go out of business.
>Unlike under Socialism, Capitalism lets the market set prices for
>everything fairly.
You sound like a slave holder in the old south when they were told
they were going to have to pay their workers.
>>
>>>>
>>>>First: the minimum wage for X presidents should be $10 an hour. That
>>>>would solve a few
>>>>problems. Let the FREE market determine everyone else's.
>>>
>>>I agree but with one change: The MAXIMUM wage should be $0 an hour.
>>
>>Don't they have such a cap on executive wages in Japan?
>
>They probably do. That's one reason their economy is steadily going
>into the toilet.
Oh really? What do you base that on?
>
>>
>>>Let the bastards EARN a living, not be just given one like some
>>>welfare whore.
>>
>>You are showing your ignorance about modern day welfare practices.
>
>You're showing your inability to read.
I am just as capable of reading as you are. However, I choose to read
positive publications rather than those things that will cause me to
wring my hands while crying, "The sky is falling." like you do.
>>
>>When I first heard about the Libertarian Party I thought they sounded
>>like a good and caring political movement. Then I got to know a few
>>people who call themselves Libertarian. If anything they are even more
>>greedy then the far right Repugs.
>
>"Greed" is a Socialist code-word.
So the writers of that black book that most Americans have in their
homes were socialists?
>
>>They don't think they should have to
>>pay for roads or any other public properties and services they use.
>
>You're incorrect.
>We don't think there should be any "public properties" but we strongly
>believe that we should pay for everything we use.
And what will the poor that you refuse to pay a living wage do in
order to get from place to place?
>
>>Yesterday on the Today Show they had a segment on college age kids
>>being the "Me first" generation. Hell, the Libertarians have been
>>doing that for a very long time. They don't believe in having any
>>social responsibilities to those less fortunate at all.
>
>Again you're incorrect.
>We believe in voluntarily helping people in need.
Doesn't work. Never will. Those organizations for the most part are
very particular about who they provide services for and often insist
the recipients follow their doctrine.
>What we don't believe in is using force to make people care for others
>in need.
So you don't believe you should be your brother's keeper. Just let the
assholes die and leave the bodies lie where they fall.
>That's the big difference between libertarians and the Socialist left
>(and right.) We believe it is ALWAYS wrong to use force or the threat
>of force, or fraud to accomplish any social, personal, or political
>goal.
Force? What force? If you don't want to pay your fair share, aka
taxes, then don't. Just be prepared for the consequences when they
sell your property.
>You on the other hand, call yourself a caring and compassionate man,
>but see absolutely nothing wrong with using violent force against
>peaceful people.
I am a pacifist and do not believe in using violent force.
>
>My calling you 'Comrade" is so much nicer than the way I really feel
>about you Communists (which is really what a Socialist is.)
I am neither a Communist nor a Socialist. You just have to put labels
on people who happen to disagree with you. How sad that is.
>>They would
>>love to see us go back to the Dark Ages morals of let the poor die or
>>put them in work-houses, aka Concentration Camps.
>
>The poor in America are so much better off than some of the
>middle-class in many countries in the world.
So you don't believe there are people starving and others dying due to
the lack of adequate health care, housing, etc.?
If we were to spend 25% of our defense budget to end hunger we could
end starvation over the entire planet.
> But in a free-market
>(libertarian) system, there would be very few truly needy people, and
>if your kinds wasn't constantly trying to steal our earnings, we'd
>have so much more money to spend on those needy that no government
>assistance would be needed. If there was no artificial minimum wage,
>people could once again take on apprentices. I learned my craft under
>a master craftsman and I worked for him "under the table" so that I
>could learn the skills since I couldn't afford college. Your kind
>happily destroyed the legal practice of apprenticeship. Way to go!
What a bunch of Libertarian bullshit propaganda that is. There is no
reasoning with your kind. You are so damned afraid that someone is
going to benefit from the taxes you pay.
>
>>
>>I happen to believe we can have free enterprise and a guaranteed
>>annual wage at the same time.
>
>Well you happen to be wrong.
No, I'm not.
>You can either have Communist or
>Capitalism.
I am not a Communist; I am a capitalist who believes in social
responsibility.
>
>In your system the state owns the means of production,
Wrong again.
>and if those
>'means of production' (labor) do not own themselves or the fruits of
>their labors, they have no incentives to produce more.
Exactly, which is why the unions negotiate for good wages and benefits
every year while the scabs get these benefits while never paying a
dime in union dues. The scabs are the freeloaders.
>
>> I am not talking about a Utopian Society
>>at all. What I am talking about is a country free of hunger,
>>homelessness and want.
>
>That is the very definition of a Utopia.
Wrong again.
>>
>>Frosty, you lowered yourself to flaming insults by referring to me as
>>Comrade Gramps - a very demeaning label - and yet you expect respect.
>>Talk about a double standard. Usually people as uncaring as you are
>>deserve no respect.
>
>I realize that people like you must be self-haters and so cannot do
>other than hate others.
I hate no one. I love you, but happen to disagree with your
self-centered me first, last and always philosophy.
> I don't desire your respect. To be respected
>by you I would have to be a Marxist and I am certainly not one of
>those!
Lie.
>
>>
>>You concern yourself way, way too much with things you have no control
>>over at all. Remember the Serenity Prayer?
>
>God, grant me the Serenity to accept the people I cannot change,
>the Courage to change the one I can,
>and the Wisdom to know it's me.
That's the one that I prefer.
It does not say that I cannot try to persuade those like you of the
folly of their selfish ways.
>
>Frosty
Frosty, this is going nowhere and I think we need to agree to disagree
and be done with it.
God loves you and so do I; it's just a little harder for me than it is
for Her.
--
Grandpa Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
Americans killed in Iraq as of Februar 28, 2007 is 3,168. United Kingdom = 138 Other = 124.
As of March 1, 2007 it has been 1418 days since Bush while standing in front of the banner
Tom Trevathan
be taken to another forum. It has been interesting, however.
Tom Trevathan
GrandpaChuck
also know that if the letters OT (off topic) are in the beginning of
the subject line that means what follows does not have anything to do
with normal posts which are on topic. Thus, it also means that just
about anything may be discussed. It is a very common practice.
Thank you for your concern. I suspect that Frosty and I are pretty
well done with it since he has proven he doesn't know me and what I
believe at all being blinded by his preconceptions and my perceptions
of him are probably just as far off the mark. IOW, neither of us is
about to change our mind.
On Thu, 1 Mar 2007 11:21:47 -0600, "Tom Trevathan"
<tomtre...@cox.net> wrote:
>Bless you both. I suspect this whole conversation is "Off Topic" and should
>be taken to another forum. It has been interesting, however.
>Tom Trevathan
>
Tom Trevathan
I just thought you both had made your points and that little new seemed to
be forthcoming.
Thank you for your kind and gracious response.
What is the quote? "I don't agree with you, but I will fight for your right
to say it."
Tom
Frosty
alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis GrandpaChuck
<Grandp...@B4me.org>, intended to write something intelligible, but
instead wrote :
>Tom if you know anything about normal newsgroup netiquitte then you
>also know that if the letters OT (off topic) are in the beginning of
>the subject line that means what follows does not have anything to do
>with normal posts which are on topic. Thus, it also means that just
>about anything may be discussed. It is a very common practice.
>
>Thank you for your concern. I suspect that Frosty and I are pretty
>well done with it since he has proven he doesn't know me and what I
>believe at all being blinded by his preconceptions and my perceptions
>of him are probably just as far off the mark. IOW, neither of us is
>about to change our mind.
I agree!
:)
Tom Trevathan
Congratulations!
Tom