The Water Cure

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

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If Psoriasis is jenetik, then you are more naturally a vejetarian
than the rest of the human race. That means your liver and kidneys
are not well adapted to disposing of a lot of protein, and dispose
of meat (if you are not a vejetarian) iz primarily what they do
(even if you are body-building). That iz a good reason for Pagano's
ratio of eighty percent vejtables to twenty percent grain and meat.
Okay, so maybe you damaged your liver or kidneys with too much
protein. What to do about it?

If you come out of a course on nutrition thinking that North
Americans need more protein, then you paid too much for that course.
Even if it was free, it wasted your time.

Lots of water, and a little salt iz working for me. About five years
ago, I got a patch of psoriasis on my forearm. It haz long been red
and inflamed. After a bath or a shower, of course the scales rub
off, and fluid comes to the surface, dries and becomes scaly. Today,
it is almost dry, much thinner (less raised), and less red than it
haz been in the last five years.

Think of a vulture. Why do you think it looks that way? It doesn't
eat water-rich foods. If you eat something that's dried and dead,
guess what you're going to look like? I'm only half kidding on this
point. --Anthony Robbins

Okay, so how much water, and are there any precautions on it. In two
litres of water, there should be a level teaspoon of salt in it. The
standard prescription is sodium chloride, and I use half-salt,
because it will hav less effect on my blood pressure. Half-salt is
almost half potassium chloride, and you should note that vejtables
contain more potassium than sodium.

I recommend up to six litres (plain tap water will do). The standard
prescription iz a minimum of about two, for anybody. In Imperial
units, it iz six eight-ounce glasses of water. In round figures, two
litres iz more. Why drink it?

Because about half of psoriasis patients rezistant to conventional
therapy are sub-clinical kidney patients. My guess iz that the other
half are liver patients. Thoze categories are not at all mutually
exclusive, for a dysfunctional kidney kan koz liver dizeaze.

A dermatologist might prescribe antibiotics, and bacteria on the
surface of a psoriasis plaque is natural, because it iz wet and
ekspohzd to air. Considering how long psoriasis iz likely to last, I
guess that prescribing antibiotics is irresponsible, because
eventually that bacteria will become rezistant to antibiotics; in
less than a year. So, all an antibiotic prescription will do iz
change the variety of bacteria on your plaque.

V-8 vejtable juice haz my recipe beaten, including a bigger variety
of salts, and it's quite a bit more expensive, plus, Pagano would
note that it's based upon tomato, which iz a nightshade; depends on
how far the fruit falls from the tree.

To make it tasty, I add a cup (147 mL) of wine.
For added punch, I add a quarter teaspoon of Vitamin C.
To make it sweet, I add seven tablespoons of sugar.
Other documents on "The Water Cure" recommend a teaspoon of salt.
I recommend half-salt.

I am about to make my second jug of this today.
I wiL spend more time drinking it than my first jug.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/ BrewJay's Babble Bin
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[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoriasis%20saffron
I wuz hoping for trials of the tea by itself. Instead, I got rezults
on a full-fledged trial of Cayce with five subjects. Still, if you
want Pagano redux, this iz it. Maybe I can find something with
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=saffron%20nephrology
Nope, failed erectile dysfunction study, again one hit.

In any case, I think I will use saffron to cut alcohol out of my
recipe. Yellow (American) Saffron is pretty cheap.

Altern Med Rev. 2004 Sep;9(3):297-307.
Medical nutrition therapy as a potential complementary treatment for
psoriasis--five case reports.
Brown AC, Hairfield M, Richards DG, McMillin DL, Mein EA, Nelson CD.
SourceDepartment of Human Nutrition, Food and Animal
Sciences,University of Hawaii at Manoa, 1955 East West Road, Rm 216,
Honolulu, HI 96822, USA. amyb...@hawaii.edu

Abstract
This research evaluated five case studies of patients with psoriasis
following a dietary regimen. There is no cure for psoriasis and the
multiple treatments currently available only attempt to reduce the
severity of symptoms. Treatments range from topical applications,
systemic therapies, and phototherapy; while some are effective, many
are associated with significant adverse effects. There is a need for
effective, affordable therapies with fewer side effects that address
the causes of the disorder. Evaluation consisted of a study group of
five patients diagnosed with chronic plaque psoriasis (two men and
three women, average age 52 years; range 40-68 years) attending a
10-day, live-in program during which a physician assessed psoriasis
symptoms and bowel permeability. Subjects were then instructed on
continuing the therapy protocol at home for six months. The dietary
protocol, based on Edgar Cayce readings, included a diet of fresh
fruits and vegetables, small amounts of protein from fish and fowl,
fiber supplements, olive oil, and avoidance of red meat, processed
foods, and refined carbohydrates. Saffron tea and slippery elm bark
water were consumed daily. The five psoriasis cases, ranging from
mild to severe at the study onset, improved on all measured outcomes
over a six-month period when measured by the Psoriasis Area and
Severity Index (PASI) (average pre- and post-test scores were 18.2
and 8.7, respectively), the Psoriasis Severity Scale (PSS) (average
pre- and post-test scores were 14.6 and 5.4, respectively), and the
lactulose/mannitol test of intestinal permeability (average pre- and
post-test scores were 0.066 to 0.026, respectively). These results
suggest a dietary regimen based on Edgar Cayce's readings may be an
effective medical nutrition therapy for the complementary treatment
of psoriasis; however, further research is warranted to confirm
these results.

[moonlightin]

"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote in message
news:9u0hp1...@mid.individual.net...

You could try this out if you like experimenting - though I have not tried
it myself. I might try out the local Salt Cave which has just opened nearby
as they claim they help psoriasis cases.

as taken from

http://www.saltcave.us/index.html

........................."How to Prepare Sole
Place several salt crystals or a tablespoon of coarse crystal salt in a
glass jar with a lid (preferably
plastic lid, not metal). Pour pure spring water on the salt. After 24 hours,
check if the salt has
dissolved. If it has, add more salt crystals or another tablespoon of fine
salt. Keep doing this until the
water can no longer dissolve the salt, and it remains at the bottom of the
jar. The water has reached
its 26% salt saturation level: now you have sole.

You can always add water to the jar to replenish your supply of sole. Just
remember, once the
crystals have fully dissolved, you must add more crystals so that there is
always undissolved salt at
the bottom to maintain the 26% saturation.

Add one teaspoon of sole to a large glass of spring water. Drink this every
morning on an
empty stomach. It is not the quantity but the regularity with which you
drink the sole that is
important!"

I have a nasal saltspray solution from the local chemist (uk) which is
brilliant for dry eyes.

[randall]

bb

h'm...


is moonlightin moonlighting as your id squid? LOL

Maybe i should give mine his own....

nevermind...

he'd be UP all night doing WKW

But the original cells did have salt water.

Didn't they?

and transmembranes... i fell a TM thread ....it's fetal life
in my brain.. and not the pain of birth.. LOL

explains the potassium sodium gated

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase
Na+/K+-ATPase (fully sodium-potassium adenosine triphosphatase, also
known as the Na+/K+ pump, sodium-potassium pump, or sodium pump, for
short) is an enzyme (EC 3.6.3.9) located in the plasma membrane (to be
specific, an electrogenic transmembrane ATPase) in all animals.
== Sodium-potassium pumps == DMC Active transport is responsible for
cells containing relatively high concentrations of potassium ions but
low concentrations of sodium ions. The mechanism responsible for this
is the sodium-potassium pump, which moves these two ions in opposite
directions across the plasma membrane. This was investigated by
following the passage of radioactively labeled ions across the plasma
membrane of certain cells. It was found that the concentrations of
sodium and potassium ions on the two sides of the membrane are
interdependent, suggesting that the same carrier transports both ions.
It is now known that the carrier is an ATP-DMC and that it pumps three
sodium ions out of the cell for every two potassium ions pumped in.

The sodium-potassium pump was discovered in the 1950s by a Danish
scientist, Jens Christian Skou, who was awarded a Nobel Prize in 1997.
It marked an important step forward in our understanding of how ions
get into and out of cells, and it has a particular significance for
excitable cells such as nervous cells, which depend on this pump for
responding to stimuli and transmitting impulses.
<snip>

jump to the

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Scheme_sodium-potassium_pump-en.svg

and
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Na%2B/K%2B-ATPase#Exogenous

Did we REALLY want to go there?

Life is so fragile...

for..

Psor sakes YES.

So rinsing your oral cavity with salt water is a good JUAN.

LoL

And swimming in the salty DEAD SEA is a biggy for psor folks.

WE get 1680 hits for DEAD SEA in the p ng
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis/search?q=DEAD+Sea&start=0&


I wish i was floating there RIGHT now..

But it is nice here (sunny + warm)... global warming WISE i'm (not(?)
guessing.. LoL

so?

the world is not homeostatic in the exogenous layer that gives
it the blue orb effect, via CO2 as an effect of warming?

Will it part the SEAs of Egypt when it goes back LOWER? LOL

But i'm with LORD Monckton on the cost vs results issue.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lord_Monckton#Climate_change

and if the green/socialist want to stop it then agree to nuclear E
which they never will..

So screw them as they bend YOU over to do the insane... or same...?
LOL

Or just their GAME plan.... LoL

Like you know who?

No who?

Whose on 1st...


randall... what is 2nd.... xyz is safe @ home

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

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Dialysis temporarily relieved about half of psoriasis patients
resistant to traditional therapy, who were sub-clinical kidney patients.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20921747

The correlation of albuminuria (blood protein in urine) with
psoriasis severity may suggest sub-clinical glomerular (nephron?)
dysfunction in psoriatics, because two of eight patients had
biopsy-proven nephritis.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21505751

Those lead to my self-treatment. I am taking up to six litres of
water per day. Typically, it is more like four, and they're usually
in the form of grape cocktail (because I can't get the juice,
anymore) with salt (1tsp/1475mL). I am tempted to measure how much
of this water I am urinating, because it seems like I must be
sweating a lot of it out. I've noticed that if I eksersize, then
more of it goes to urine.

I am not sure what the salt is for, and it seems to make for more
urine than sweat. I wuz using half-salt (half potassium chloride),
and I suspect that led to diarrhea, so I am using NaCl, now.

I am getting my K from fruit, like everyone else. Watermelon is a
good idea: Get your potassium naturally, short of renal failure, anyway.

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[JRStern]

On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:37:37 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>I am not sure what the salt is for

Cuz otherwise you deplete your electrolytes and die of heart failure?

Better worry about them all, magnesium and calcium, too.

Bananas are a heroic source of potassium.

What about drinking (possibly diluted) Gatorade instead, or some other
sports drink with balanced electrolyes? Try to find one without
carbs, of course.

I'm a bit skeptical about the whole thing actually, I already am in
the habit of drinking a boatload of iced tea at lunch, if it was going
to cure me it would have done so years ago. And it's already pretty
dilute, so whatever negative effects might be in tea are minimal, and
for that matter it has some positives, like quercetin.

J.

[randall]

On May 1, 12:37 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:37:37 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>

j

Bb does not understand his enterotype or microbiota.

If he did ... well, it would be a different post/thread.

Duh.


Anyway...

Your (mine + everyone or every living creature no less)
potassium sodium gradient creates a pump to
bring fluid in to cells.

Understanding such brought a nobel prize to the
scientist who figured it out.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sodium-potassium_pump


[...] Discovery
Na+/K+-ATPase was discovered by Jens Christian Skou in 1957 while
working as assistant professor at the Department of Physiology,
University of Aarhus, Denmark. He published his work that year.[7]

In 1997, he received one-half of the Nobel Prize in Chemistry "for the
first discovery of an ion-transporting enzyme, Na+, K+ -ATPase."[8]
<snip>

Pictures explain more then mere words:
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/a/a5/Scheme_sodium-potassium_pump-en.svg

Why those nobel people took so LONG to recognize such a HUGE discovery
is perplexing.

Then again they use them liberally for total nit wits with the DRD4 7R
allele
(2 copies) all the TIME.

They call those peace prizes iirc. LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nobel_Peace_Prize


NOW that would be a huge discovery.

How many people with a nobel have 2 copies of the DRD4 7R allele.

And how many of those are NOT in sciences? LOL

It's a dynamite prize for drd4 7R alleles all right. LOL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dynamite

How is that for total hypocrisy? (<w><G>)


I will do a thread on this in order to put it in perspective.


Dynamite!

Seeing that Trotsky Grand daughter Nora was on 60 minutes speaking
about addiction and dopamine on 60 minutes sunday night....

I'm ALL over it, to DO it... LOL

How many times have i mentioned it already?


Let's see..

OK, got it:

WOW only 69 times; DRD4 7R - p ng
http://groups.google.com/group/alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis/search?q=drd4+7R&start=0&scoring=d&

And that includes this TIME of course.


And dopamine is a huge topic with 60 minutes on Sunday night.


Wow...!

It's out of the closet.

I do FIGURE, by my ability to understand this and reason, i've
got ONE copy of this GENE.


Yikes...!

Or i would BET i DO.... and give HIGH odds. LOL


randall... ido ido.... DO YOU?

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-01 1:37 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 21:37:37 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> I am not sure what the salt is for
>
> Cuz otherwise you deplete your electrolytes and die of heart failure?

My kidneys are not so far gone that they won't conserve and balance
electrolytes, plus Edmonton water is hard, so it contains trace
minerals (carbonates, mostly). In any case, in my context, I am
drinking fruit cocktail (made with white sugar), which contains a
little _more_ magnesium, potassium, and calcium (not az much az juice).

> Better worry about them all, magnesium and calcium, too.

They are accounted for, probably in abundance, and according to
nutrition data, most people get too much sodium.

> Bananas are a heroic source of potassium.

And phosphate. Pagano recommends taking them separately in time with
other foods. I really don't know why.

> What about drinking (possibly diluted) Gatorade instead, or some other
> sports drink with balanced electrolyes? Try to find one without
> carbs, of course.

I hav no problem with carbs. Fruit contains an abundance of
carbohydrates, and I should be getting most of my energy from fruit.
A famous doctor now dead waged a protracted war against carbs. He
succeeded in making the pendulum of public opinion swing towards
protein and fat. Carbohydrates are not a problem, az long az we are
not talking about white sugar and refined wheat flour, which are
devoid of both the vitamins and minerals you need to use them
properly. Even with table sugar and white bread, you can always add
vitamins and minerals with pills.

The first thing your body needs is energy. The first thing it will
use for energy is sugar. The next thing it will use for energy iz
complex carbohydrates. Fat iz third: Your body will convert fat
first to glucagon, then to sugar (it can go the other way, from
sugar to fat, and it usually doesn't). Last comes protein. _Using
protein for energy_ is a messy business for a herbivore like humans.
Some of us do it better than others. For cats, it is second nature:
Cats are obligate carnivores: Most of _them_ convert carbohydrate
into fat.

> I'm a bit skeptical about the whole thing actually, I already am in
> the habit of drinking a boatload of iced tea at lunch, if it was going
> to cure me it would have done so years ago. And it's already pretty
> dilute, so whatever negative effects might be in tea are minimal, and
> for that matter it has some positives, like quercetin.
>
> J.
>
>

There's no quercetin at
http://nutritiondata.self.com/tools/nutrient-search
I wonder who I should ask to get Chromium listed (too),
which is listed at NCBI. I think onions are rich in either quercetin
or something related. If not, then when I pyuuray grapefruit rinds
with water and strain the water out (through denim, a poor man's
juicer), quercetin iz probably in my filtrate.

Tea is a diuretic. After your absorb it, it shortly depletes you of
water. This is one of my misunderstandings of Pagano: Why diuretics?
I take Licorice Root tea. It iz an anti-diuretic, so when my kidneys
really need to excrete something toxic in my blood, then the water
will be there for my kidneys to use.

One of the hard things to take about psoriasis is that it's chronic.
No matter what you do, the cure takes more than a month (maybe less
if you've only had it for a month), and it's hard to add up whether
you are going in the right direction. With all this water, all I am
really doing is making the job of my kidneys easier, and hopefully
that alone will let them rejenerate.

Thanks, Mister Stern, for pointing my in these directions to explore
why I might (and don't) need salt. I won't be using salt in my
juice, because I don't like the taste of it in my juice, and the
consensus iz that most people get too much salt.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-01 1:37 PM, JRStern wrote:

> (...) Gatorade (...) az a way to get balanced electrolytes.

Watermelon probably haz a better balance of electrolytes,
and it's cheaper (about $3/2L). I'm thankful that it provides more
Copper than Manganese, anyway; better than tea in that respect.

Watermelon
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/fruits-and-fruit-juices/2072/2

Tea
http://nutritiondata.self.com/facts/beverages/3967/2
I wonder if I should get them to list Aluminum, Cadmium, and
Molybdenum, too. Plus, Chromium is listed at NCBI, while Manganese
iz not.
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

How is it that East Indians and Chinese get much less psoriasis
than the rest of us?

[JRStern]

So what's your theory, white rice or soy sauce?

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

Lack of meat. In the Hindu relijion, eating animals demotes your
caste, although you can get away with milk and butter (Ghee,
clarified butter). In China, meat iz largely unaffordable. Pagano
would hav it that rice iz acid-forming, so bad. According to the
documentation on acid-versus-alkali forming foods, though, it's not
az bad az fish and fowl. You can tell from your teeth, only two of
which are pointed that man iz a herbivore. Jesus was vejetarian.
_______
There are no facts; only interpretations.
--Friedrich Nietzsche

[moonlightin]

"Bohgosity BumaskiL" wrote in message

news:a2abm8...@mid.individual.net...

I believe it is all in the GENES and those who have survived thus far
because they were in the right area to survive. "Several studies show that
psoriasis also shares a strong link with celiac disease and gluten found in
the grains wheat, barley and rye". Chinese people have rice (no gluten) for
example.
from the article here.

http://celiacdisease.about.com/od/commoncomplicationsofcd/a/Celiac-Disease-Psoriasis-Linked-Through-Antibodies-To-Gluten.htm

My interpretation of it is that humanity would not have survived without
eating everything that it could get hold of, meat or vegetation. Look at
the eskimo lifestyle for example. I believe we have become omnivores.
Some can cope with vegetarian diets only and some need meat. It is
dangerous to generalise.

Hunting and fruit gathering came way before agriculture according to the
historians. As a coeliac (gluten intolerant) I am getting round to
believing that we came first but were gradually wiped out as we couldn't
adapt to thrive or cope with the wheat, barley or rye staple diets that came
later on. That's why more and more of us are surviving and noticeable now
the problem is known and dealt with.

my pennyworth

Skeats
BTW: Please don't bring Jesus into it.

[JRStern]

On Fri, 25 May 2012 15:25:19 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL

<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>On 2012-05-24 12:03 PM, JRStern wrote:
>> On Thu, 24 May 2012 06:23:34 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> How is it that East Indians and Chinese get much less psoriasis
>>> than the rest of us?
>>
>> So what's your theory, white rice or soy sauce?
>>
>> J.
>>
>>
>Lack of meat.

well certainly too much red meat with omega 6 raises your AA and
aggravates inflammation, but my guess would be the psoriasis genes
simply are more common in more western groups. certainly they eat a
lot more turmeric in the east, and that will reduce inflammation as
well.


J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

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I heard a guy claim to be a "carnivorian". I figure him to be a fool
if he wants to avoid heart dizeaz. Even stroke iz a problem if your
meat (and only meat) iz all fish. Meat iz nearly devoid of vitamin C
(and bioflavonoids) that you need to prevent stroke. I grew up az an
omnivore, so I like meat, and I know it iz not good for me. The
interesting thing about Pagano iz that he came to the same effect
with different reasoning: Grains (including rice) jenerate acid when
you ash them, so they work against the homeostasis of you blood:
Your body haz to keep blood alkaline, so it dissolves some bone to
neutralize that acid.

The strongest bones on the planet belong to vegetarians.
- --Anthony Robbins (in "Unlimited Power", Chapter Eight).

> Hunting and fruit gathering came way before agriculture according to
> the historians. As a coeliac (gluten intolerant) I am getting
> round to believing that we came first but were gradually wiped out
> as we couldn't adapt to thrive or cope with the wheat, barley or rye
> staple diets that came later on. That's why more and more of us are
> surviving and noticeable now the problem is known and dealt with.

If your pocketbook would survive, then you might enjoy a fruit-based
diet. Do not let anyone tell you that living in the mode of Pagano
(or Robbins) iz cheap. It iz cheaper than biolojikal synthesis
medications, though.

> my pennyworth
>
> Skeats
> BTW: Please don't bring Jesus into it.

I FOUND JESUS! He wuz in my TRUNK when I got back from Tijuana.

_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/ BrewJay's Babble Bin

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[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

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I will give you the Turmeric, because it's an unknown factor in my
gradually progressing remission.
Why would psoriasis jeenz be more common in America?
Why would any jeen associated with kidney dizeez, liver dizeez,
stroke, and ugliness become more common?
_______
http://ecn.ab.ca/~brewhaha/ Brewjay's Babble Bin

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[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoriasis%20hepatology

[JRStern]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 00:08:02 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>I will give you the Turmeric, because it's an unknown factor in my
>gradually progressing remission.
>Why would psoriasis jeenz be more common in America?
>Why would any jeen associated with kidney dizeez, liver dizeez,
>stroke, and ugliness become more common?

Bad genes can spread as recessives, as long as they associate with
good genes. Very common.

And then you get situations like where maybe psoriasis genes
*individually* are even beneficial, giving you more disease
resistance, and only when you get too many of them to you get the
negative effects of the disease.

So maybe every white guy has one "psoriasis" gene out of twenty, but
it takes ten to have any of the common symptoms. Over enough
generations, you get about what we see today. Maybe orientals only
have half that many of these genes in the first place. Maybe they
don't travel as much over the last thousand years, so the genes don't
spread out and mix. Maybe they have some offsetting gene that the
whites don't have.

All sorts of ways these things can happen. Maybe all the psoriasis in
orientals comes only from long-forgotten crossing with whites. Could
be, mathematically. Might even get evidence on this, one way or the
other, over the next twenty years as gene sequencing gets cheap enough
for the masses.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

More to the point, then. Do you nod to numbers?
When Pagano started directly and personally promoting Cayce's
rejiman, you could've said it wuz a fluke after one successful
rezult. After fourty years of cases, though, and he did not
print statistics...probably because that would be research
follow-up, which iz necessarily lossy due to people moving. After
fourty years of cases, he's seen enough rezults to print a book with
at least six case history photos, and he probably haz more.

How does Cayce's rejimen *ever* get rezults?
_______
Let food be your medicine, and medicine be your food.
--Hippocrates

[JRStern]

Two ways.

First, psoriasis seems to be a multi-factor disease, lots of varieties
in symptoms, possibly even more variety of causes. Some subset of
these may respond to any random treatment. Psoriasis studies are
famous for this, every treatment seems to show a few successes. The
math supports it.

If you could ever narrow it down to exactly *which* varieties *will*
respond to a given treatment, you might have something! A lot of
current medical research is trying to do just this, because even fully
conventional medicine has exactly these same statistical hurdles to
jump.

Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
for NO reason at all.

That's why a few anecdotal successes do not constitute proof of any
kind. They may *be* true successes, but it's impossible to tell and
incorrect to take things otherwise.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-27 2:53 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 13:53:35 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> More to the point, then. Do you nod to numbers?
>> When Pagano started directly and personally promoting Cayce's
>> rejiman, you could've said it wuz a fluke after one successful
>> rezult. After fourty years of cases, though, and he did not
>> print statistics...probably because that would be research
>> follow-up, which iz necessarily lossy due to people moving. After
>> fourty years of cases, he's seen enough rezults to print a book with
>> at least six case history photos, and he probably haz more.
>>
>> How does Cayce's rejimen *ever* get rezults?
>
> Two ways.
>
> First, psoriasis seems to be a multi-factor disease, lots of varieties
> in symptoms, possibly even more variety of causes. Some subset of
> these may respond to any random treatment. Psoriasis studies are
> famous for this, every treatment seems to show a few successes. The
> math supports it.

The math also supports that strep infections
are nothing but an effect. It's just the Physics
of biology. Giv one single bacterium of the right
variety a wet surface with food to grow on and
it *WILL* multiply -- exponentially -- until it
drowns in its own toxins and consumed nutrients.

> If you could ever narrow it down to exactly *which* varieties *will*
> respond to a given treatment, you might have something! A lot of
> current medical research is trying to do just this, because even fully
> conventional medicine has exactly these same statistical hurdles to
> jump.

Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.

> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
> for NO reason at all.

Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.

> That's why a few anecdotal successes do not constitute proof of any
> kind. They may *be* true successes, but it's impossible to tell and
> incorrect to take things otherwise.

A FEW!? In fourty years. You take the man to be very lazy.
So, who will count testimonials?
Or, what are you admitting az evidence?

> J.
>

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2011.04928.x/abstract;jsessionid=89A8A3FD516DC7D89F3B3E32E80BC2C0.d01t04

This iz a critically important article from a drug safety
perspective. Apparently, a drug for treating irritable bowel
syndrome (and coincidentally a TNF inhibitor, like a drug for
treating psoriasis) causes psoriasis.

[JRStern]

On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:02:54 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
>It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.

That's like using a hammer to drive nails, and screws, and to clean
dishes.

>> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
>> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
>> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
>> for NO reason at all.
>
>Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
>Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
>lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
>nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.

Six out of six million is not convincing.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-28 10:55 AM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:02:54 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
>> It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.
>
> That's like using a hammer to drive nails, and screws, and to clean
> dishes.

It means that no major difference iz in the cause of ekzema and
psoriasis. It means that Dermatologists are wasting their time
trying to distinguish ekzema from psoriasis. I happen to think even
Pagano did that.

>>> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
>>> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
>>> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
>>> for NO reason at all.
>>
>> Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
>> Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
>> lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
>> nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.
>
> Six out of six million is not convincing.
>
> J.
>

*WHAT* are you trying to tell me? That six million hav tried it?
That Pagano only treated six? That's all of hiz *graphic* evidence
printed in the book. He probably haz more, and a whole lot more
patients that did not waste their time on Diflucortolone and
Calcipotriol. Lots of people try the topicals, only to hav their
psoriasis move and their skin get thinner.

[JRStern]

On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:37:21 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL

<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>On 2012-05-28 10:55 AM, JRStern wrote:
>> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:02:54 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
>>> It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.
>>
>> That's like using a hammer to drive nails, and screws, and to clean
>> dishes.
>
>It means that no major difference iz in the cause of ekzema and
>psoriasis. It means that Dermatologists are wasting their time
>trying to distinguish ekzema from psoriasis. I happen to think even
>Pagano did that.

That's *accepting* that it's OK to use a hammer to drive screws.

>>>> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
>>>> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
>>>> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
>>>> for NO reason at all.
>>>
>>> Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
>>> Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
>>> lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
>>> nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.
>>
>> Six out of six million is not convincing.
>>
>> J.
>>
>*WHAT* are you trying to tell me? That six million hav tried it?

Yes.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-29 8:23 AM, JRStern wrote:
> On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:37:21 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> On 2012-05-28 10:55 AM, JRStern wrote:
>>> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:02:54 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
>>>> It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.
>>>
>>> That's like using a hammer to drive nails, and screws, and to clean
>>> dishes.
>>>
>> It means that no major difference iz in the cause of ekzema and
>> psoriasis. It means that Dermatologists are wasting their time
>> trying to distinguish ekzema from psoriasis. I happen to think even
>> Pagano did that.
>
> That's *accepting* that it's OK to use a hammer to drive screws.

What makes you so sure that a difference is in the cause of
psoriasis and ekzema? I hav both. Both are slowly going away under
Cayce's rejimen. Two people hav called what's on my face ekzema.
When it wuz more serious, though, to me, it wuz obviously psoriasis.
If both hav the same kyuur, then both hav the same
koz.

>>>>> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
>>>>> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
>>>>> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
>>>>> for NO reason at all.
>>>>
>>>> Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
>>>> Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
>>>> lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
>>>> nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.
>>>
>>> Six out of six million is not convincing.
>>>
>>> J.
>>>
>> *WHAT* are you trying to tell me? That six million hav tried it?
>
> Yes.

You must understand that the book cannot be az effective az the man
in getting compliance with treatment. How did anyone measure how
many patients not only bought the book, read the book, and either
followed it to the letter or followed through enough to get remission?

> J.
>

http://www.altmedrev.com/publications/9/3/297.pdf
Full free text on a trial of Edgar Cayce's psoriasis protocol:
How to Cure Psoriasis.

[JRStern]

On Tue, 29 May 2012 18:41:32 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL

<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>On 2012-05-29 8:23 AM, JRStern wrote:
>> On Mon, 28 May 2012 22:37:21 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> On 2012-05-28 10:55 AM, JRStern wrote:
>>>> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:02:54 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>>>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>>
>>>>> Pagano treats ekzema with pretty much the same thing.
>>>>> It therefore haz the same ultimate cause.
>>>>
>>>> That's like using a hammer to drive nails, and screws, and to clean
>>>> dishes.
>>>>
>>> It means that no major difference iz in the cause of ekzema and
>>> psoriasis. It means that Dermatologists are wasting their time
>>> trying to distinguish ekzema from psoriasis. I happen to think even
>>> Pagano did that.
>>
>> That's *accepting* that it's OK to use a hammer to drive screws.
>
>What makes you so sure that a difference is in the cause of
>psoriasis and ekzema? I hav both. Both are slowly going away under
>Cayce's rejimen. Two people hav called what's on my face ekzema.
>When it wuz more serious, though, to me, it wuz obviously psoriasis.
>If both hav the same kyuur, then both hav the same
>koz.

They can have very different causes, but the same cure.

We are told that psoriasis is a malfunction of the Th1 cells, eczema
of the Th2 cells. In both cases, suppressing inflammation generally,
may help.

>
>>>>>> Second, any scientific study tends to have false positives, placebo
>>>>>> successes, etc. It's just noise. Maybe it relates to even *more*
>>>>>> factors than anyone is aware of. You will get a few spontaneous cures
>>>>>> for NO reason at all.
>>>>>
>>>>> Care to guess how many "spontaneous cures" Pagano haz caused with
>>>>> Cayce's recipe? That wuz my point. One example of personally coached
>>>>> lifestyle chaynjez could've been a fluke. Six iz not, and six iz
>>>>> nothing but my estimate of how much graphic evidence Pagano haz.
>>>>
>>>> Six out of six million is not convincing.
>>>>
>>>> J.
>>>>
>>> *WHAT* are you trying to tell me? That six million hav tried it?
>>
>> Yes.
>
>You must understand that the book cannot be az effective az the man
>in getting compliance with treatment. How did anyone measure how
>many patients not only bought the book, read the book, and either
>followed it to the letter or followed through enough to get remission?

I have no idea how many have actually tried it, or to what degree.
However, over the years this group has had a fair amount of traffic on
it, and I've even tried parts of it myself, and the general response
is - nothing. Of course it depends where you start from. But in
general, in the scientific method it takes more than a handfull of
anecdotal cures, before you can seriously claim that you have any idea
at all of what you are talking about.

As I say to a lot of anecdotal success stories here - if it were that
easy, people would have flocked to it like mad, a generation or ten
ago.

Now, this is *somewhat* rebutted by my own moderate success with
turmeric/curcumin, but that alone is not enough, it *does* have to be
combined with additional dietary and supplements, some along the lines
of Pagano. So what *can* I say based on my anecdotal success? That
the conventional science that tells us turmeric suppresses TNF
production, fits with the conventional scientific story of psoriasis,
and is worth knowing about when considering treatments.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-30 4:00 PM, JRStern wrote:
(snip)
> I have no idea how many have actually tried [Pagano/Cayce], or to what degree.

> However, over the years this group has had a fair amount of traffic on
> it, and I've even tried parts of it myself, and the general response
> is - nothing. Of course it depends where you start from. But in
> general, in the scientific method it takes more than a handfull of
> anecdotal cures, before you can seriously claim that you have any idea
> at all of what you are talking about.

Your repetition of "handful" iz infuriating, because you did not
even look around to see if that iz a likely number. The gold
standard in drug trials iz a double-blind, placebo-controlled,
cross-over study. That means both patients and directly-interacting
clinicians are blind to whoever iz getting treatment and whoever iz
getting placebo. Then, for the second half of a study, whoever *wuz*
getting treatment will get placebo, and placebo patents will get
treatment. Az I've said before, you can't be blind to food. That
would require cutting out tungz. The only part of the gold standard
that can be done with the key part of Pagano/Cayce iz a cross-over
study. That means people who received treatment would then get
non-treatment. If a clinician saw improvement, though, that might
not be ethical, az Hippocrates' first injunction iz to do no harm.

How would you get anything but anecdotal evidence?

> As I say to a lot of anecdotal success stories here - if it were that
> easy, people would have flocked to it like mad, a generation or ten
> ago.
>
> Now, this is *somewhat* rebutted by my own moderate success with
> turmeric/curcumin, but that alone is not enough, it *does* have to be
> combined with additional dietary and supplements, some along the lines
> of Pagano.

Pagano reprinted a list of supplements from Reader's Digest. He
needed permission, so I can't do that here. I only borrowed the book
from the library, and if memory serves me correctly, absent is
Turmeric-Curcumin.

> So what *can* I say based on my anecdotal success? That
> the conventional science that tells us turmeric suppresses TNF
> production, fits with the conventional scientific story of psoriasis,
> and is worth knowing about when considering treatments.
>
> J.
>

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

I see that "irritable bowel syndrome" haz been renamed to
"inflammatory bowel disease".

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=brassica%20ulcer
_______
Let food be your medicine, and your medicine food.
--Hippocrates

[JRStern]

On Wed, 30 May 2012 21:50:33 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>Your repetition of "handful" iz infuriating, because you did not
>even look around to see if that iz a likely number. The gold
>standard in drug trials iz a double-blind, placebo-controlled,
>cross-over study.

I can't recall seeing a crossover study done on humans.

And I don't even consider the double-blind study all that golden.
It's important, but the constant reports of placebo cures, make me
wonder at the basic methodology.

I much prefer a causal explanation that is *backed* by double-blind
studies, else you're right, in some ways it's all anecdotal. However
if that happens, that just means it's all crap, it does NOT mean we
start accepting the anecdotes.

As I say again and again, good science is not easy.

J.

[JRStern]

I don't know what to make of this.

What we do know is that even the mainline anti-TNF psoriasis drugs
like Enbrel often lose effectiveness over time.

Also, that the various anti-TNF drugs generally block a ton of other
inflammatory cytokines and whatnot, I don't know that a tenth of it
has even been mapped.

In combination with different genes, that lead more directly to IBD,
drugs that target the bowel more than skin, might do something bad to
the skin, I find that possible to believe.

So for any "anti-TNF" drug, one would want to know, "OK what *else* is
it blocking?" Or for that matter, promoting.

J.

[Julie Bove]

"Bohgosity BumaskiL" <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote in message
news:a2abm8...@mid.individual.net...

Bah! I eat very little meat.

[Julie Bove]

"moonlightin" <moonli...@overthemoon.com> wrote in message
news:S26wr.979673$xD4....@fx06.am4...

Chinese people use soy sauce and that often has wheat in it.

[moonlightin]

"Julie Bove" wrote in message news:jq781s$tpj$1...@dont-email.me...

>Chinese people use soy sauce and that often has wheat in it.

Yes but according to Wikipedia the gluten effect is minimised in the
finished product in some way. It still doesn't nullify my argument. Before
I was diagnosed I had no problem with covering my Chinese takeaways with
lots of soy sauce. I do miss those days!

------"Most varieties of soy sauce contain wheat, to which some people have
a medical intolerance.[36] However, some naturally brewed soy sauces made
with wheat may be tolerated by people with a specific intolerance to gluten
because gluten is not detectable in the finished product.[37] Japanese
tamari soy sauce is traditionally wheat-free, and some tamari available
commercially today is wheat- and gluten-free."

Skeats

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-05-30 11:28 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Wed, 30 May 2012 21:50:33 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> Your repetition of "handful" iz infuriating, because you did not
>> even look around to see if that iz a likely number. The gold
>> standard in drug trials iz a double-blind, placebo-controlled,
>> cross-over study.
>
> I can't recall seeing a crossover study done on humans.

RCT iz an incomplete acronym. Crossover iz important for controlling
and identifying outliers. For example, if you get someone who does
better without treatment, you can treat them az a special case, try
to explain it, and exclude them in some statistics, and show that
statistics really are neater without them. For example, in the
Cayce-Pagano case histories, none of the subjects' other treatments
for psoriasis were discontinued. Crossover haz been done on humans.
Normally, crossover studies hav neater statistics.

> And I don't even consider the double-blind study all that golden.

Double blind iz critical in drug trials. Experimenters can giv clues
to patients about whether they are getting treatment. They can even
give it away and bury the fact. A big reason to use double blind iz
that some of the measures are subjective, or there iz a subjective
element in the measures (PASI included), so experimenters might tilt
their perception according to whether they think a patient iz
getting treatment. So, to properly use placebo control, assessment
of patients must be blind to whether a patient iz getting treatment.
Double blind iz critical in drug trials; more important than random.

Alphabetical iz random relative to drug response.

> It's important, but the constant reports of placebo cures, make me
> wonder at the basic methodology.
>
> I much prefer a causal explanation that is *backed* by double-blind
> studies, else you're right, in some ways it's all anecdotal. However
> if that happens, that just means it's all crap, it does NOT mean we
> start accepting the anecdotes.
>
> As I say again and again, good science is not easy.
>
> J.
>
>

I did not say it's all anecdotal. I said that nobody can be blind to
diet, so all you will ever get for supporting or attacking dietary
measures will be anecdotal.

Randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, crossover studies are
the gold standard in drug trials. You could test Turmeric, fish oil,
and Silymarin (Milk Thistle) with RPCDBC studies.

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[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

How much water do you get?

[JRStern]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:05:57 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL

<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>Hash: SHA1
>
>On 2012-05-30 11:28 PM, JRStern wrote:
>> On Wed, 30 May 2012 21:50:33 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>
>>> Your repetition of "handful" iz infuriating, because you did not
>>> even look around to see if that iz a likely number. The gold
>>> standard in drug trials iz a double-blind, placebo-controlled,
>>> cross-over study.
>>
>> I can't recall seeing a crossover study done on humans.
>
>RCT iz an incomplete acronym. Crossover iz important for controlling
>and identifying outliers. For example, if you get someone who does
>better without treatment, you can treat them az a special case, try
>to explain it, and exclude them in some statistics, and show that
>statistics really are neater without them. For example, in the
>Cayce-Pagano case histories, none of the subjects' other treatments
>for psoriasis were discontinued. Crossover haz been done on humans.
>Normally, crossover studies hav neater statistics.

It's just very expensive.

>> And I don't even consider the double-blind study all that golden.
>
>Double blind iz critical in drug trials. Experimenters can giv clues
>to patients about whether they are getting treatment. They can even
>give it away and bury the fact. A big reason to use double blind iz
>that some of the measures are subjective, or there iz a subjective
>element in the measures (PASI included), so experimenters might tilt
>their perception according to whether they think a patient iz
>getting treatment. So, to properly use placebo control, assessment
>of patients must be blind to whether a patient iz getting treatment.
>Double blind iz critical in drug trials; more important than random.

Still, any study is done for verification, and it's a lot better to
have a theory before you try to verify the theory. If the theory is,
"Maybe this stuff works", well, it's worth a try. If your theory is,
"This drug binds to molecule XYZ with a half-life of 123 blocking
reaction PQR", then that's a MUCH better theory to validate.

>Alphabetical iz random relative to drug response.
>
>> It's important, but the constant reports of placebo cures, make me
>> wonder at the basic methodology.
>>
>> I much prefer a causal explanation that is *backed* by double-blind
>> studies, else you're right, in some ways it's all anecdotal. However
>> if that happens, that just means it's all crap, it does NOT mean we
>> start accepting the anecdotes.
>>
>> As I say again and again, good science is not easy.
>>
>> J.
>>
>>
>
>I did not say it's all anecdotal. I said that nobody can be blind to
>diet, so all you will ever get for supporting or attacking dietary
>measures will be anecdotal.
>
>Randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, crossover studies are
>the gold standard in drug trials. You could test Turmeric, fish oil,
>and Silymarin (Milk Thistle) with RPCDBC studies.

Sure, I agree with all that. In fact, if any clinical guys want to
make a name for themselves, I can help them set up tests of Coenzyme
Q10 that will show its tremendous value. Such test setup for Q10
seems to have escaped the medical, biological, and pharma industries
to date.


J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
Hash: SHA1

On 2012-05-30 11:34 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sun, 27 May 2012 16:12:06 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2036.2011.04928.x/abstract;jsessionid=89A8A3FD516DC7D89F3B3E32E80BC2C0.d01t04
>>
>> This iz a critically important article from a drug safety

>> perspective. Apparently, a drug for treating [inflammatory bowel
>> disease] (and coincidentally a TNF inhibitor, like a drug for

>> treating psoriasis) causes psoriasis.
>
> I don't know what to make of this.
>
> What we do know is that even the mainline anti-TNF psoriasis drugs
> like Enbrel often lose effectiveness over time.
>
> Also, that the various anti-TNF drugs generally block a ton of other
> inflammatory cytokines and whatnot, I don't know that a tenth of it
> has even been mapped.
>
> In combination with different genes, that lead more directly to IBD,
> drugs that target the bowel more than skin, might do something bad to
> the skin, I find that possible to believe.
>
> So for any "anti-TNF" drug, one would want to know, "OK what *else* is
> it blocking?" Or for that matter, promoting.
>
> J.
>
>

I figure that if you block TNF for your stomach, then it might spill
into skin, making it necrose, when it was not dizeezd in the first
place. When your skin iz rebuilt, it will not be quite az good az
before, so it will again be attacked by your own immune system,
because of TNF made for your stomach.

I would treat inflammatory bowel disease (ulcers?) to red cabbage
and pineapple smoothies. Pineapple overpowers the taste of cabbage,
which iz red for an appetizing colour and anthocyanins that make
blueberries healthy. The healthy part of cabbage iz
iso-thio-cyanates and fibre. Horseradish leaf iz mother of cabbage:
It looks like an unrolled cabbage, with much stronger flavour. It
grows wild in Edmonton streets and alleys.
_______
QUANDO OMNI FLUNKUS MORITATI (when all else fails, play dead).

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[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-06-01 8:30 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:05:57 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>> -----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
>> Hash: SHA1
>>
>> On 2012-05-30 11:28 PM, JRStern wrote:
>>> On Wed, 30 May 2012 21:50:33 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>>> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>>>
>>>> Your repetition of "handful" iz infuriating, because you did not
>>>> even look around to see if that iz a likely number. The gold
>>>> standard in drug trials iz a double-blind, placebo-controlled,
>>>> cross-over study.
>>>
>>> I can't recall seeing a crossover study done on humans.
>>
>> RCT iz an incomplete acronym. Crossover iz important for controlling
>> and identifying outliers. For example, if you get someone who does
>> better without treatment, you can treat them az a special case, try
>> to explain it, and exclude them in some statistics, and show that
>> statistics really are neater without them. For example, in the
>> Cayce-Pagano case histories, none of the subjects' other treatments
>> for psoriasis were discontinued. Crossover haz been done on humans.
>> Normally, crossover studies hav neater statistics.
>
> It's just very expensive.

It's zero sum. You effectively get twice az meny subjects, with half
of the study duration. Plus, you hav a few more analytical tools. No
great chaynj in expense comes from crossover. A little more time
might be in analysis.

>>> And I don't even consider the double-blind study all that golden.
>>
>> Double blind iz critical in drug trials. Experimenters can giv clues
>> to patients about whether they are getting treatment. They can even
>> give it away and bury the fact. A big reason to use double blind iz
>> that some of the measures are subjective, or there iz a subjective
>> element in the measures (PASI included), so experimenters might tilt
>> their perception according to whether they think a patient iz
>> getting treatment. So, to properly use placebo control, assessment
>> of patients must be blind to whether a patient iz getting treatment.
>> Double blind iz critical in drug trials; more important than random.
>
> Still, any study is done for verification, and it's a lot better to
> have a theory before you try to verify the theory. If the theory is,
> "Maybe this stuff works", well, it's worth a try. If your theory is,
> "This drug binds to molecule XYZ with a half-life of 123 blocking
> reaction PQR", then that's a MUCH better theory to validate.

If you are talking about synthetic drugs, then a chance iz in it
having serious side effects.

I think the best theories to validate concern phytochemicals. It iz
nice to hav a theory about why they work, and that iz not necessary.
My main reason for favouring phytochemicals iz that a whole food
usually works az well az or better than an extract. Consider
Cinnamon. It works to control diabetes. Zinc iz probably the
essential component, and other components in Cinnamon help you
deliver Zinc to your liver or pancreas and metabolize it.

>> Alphabetical iz random relative to drug response.
>>
>>> It's important, but the constant reports of placebo cures, make me
>>> wonder at the basic methodology.
>>>
>>> I much prefer a causal explanation that is *backed* by double-blind
>>> studies, else you're right, in some ways it's all anecdotal. However
>>> if that happens, that just means it's all crap, it does NOT mean we
>>> start accepting the anecdotes.
>>>
>>> As I say again and again, good science is not easy.
>>>
>>> J.
>>>
>>>
>>
>> I did not say it's all anecdotal. I said that nobody can be blind to
>> diet, so all you will ever get for supporting or attacking dietary
>> measures will be anecdotal.
>>
>> Randomized, placebo-controlled, double-blind, crossover studies are
>> the gold standard in drug trials. You could test Turmeric, fish oil,
>> and Silymarin (Milk Thistle) with RPCDBC studies.
>
> Sure, I agree with all that. In fact, if any clinical guys want to
> make a name for themselves, I can help them set up tests of Coenzyme
> Q10 that will show its tremendous value. Such test setup for Q10
> seems to have escaped the medical, biological, and pharma industries
> to date.
>
>
> J.
>

I do not know. It iz also called ubiquinone, because it iz
ubiquitous. I think that iz bekuz nobody haz ever shown a deficiency
in that enzyme. I would be more interested if a phytochemical or a
vitamin increased ubiquinone.

It iz very unlikely to cause side-effects, though; GRAS.

There hav been 8960 studies on ubiquinone, so it would be rather
difficult to find something distinctive to study in it.
At any rate, this iz a good one:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22595020

[JRStern]

On Fri, 01 Jun 2012 20:41:27 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

> Horseradish leaf iz mother of cabbage:
>It looks like an unrolled cabbage, with much stronger flavour. It
>grows wild in Edmonton streets and alleys.

You sure that's not skunk cabbage or something? I never heard of
eating horseradish *leaf*.

J.

[JRStern]

On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 02:05:27 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>> Sure, I agree with all that. In fact, if any clinical guys want to
>> make a name for themselves, I can help them set up tests of Coenzyme
>> Q10 that will show its tremendous value. Such test setup for Q10
>> seems to have escaped the medical, biological, and pharma industries
>> to date.
>>
>

>I do not know. It iz also called ubiquinone, because it iz
>ubiquitous. I think that iz bekuz nobody haz ever shown a deficiency
>in that enzyme. I would be more interested if a phytochemical or a
>vitamin increased ubiquinone.
>
>It iz very unlikely to cause side-effects, though; GRAS.
>
>There hav been 8960 studies on ubiquinone, so it would be rather
>difficult to find something distinctive to study in it.
>At any rate, this iz a good one:
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22595020

It's nice that it comes out positive, but without nailing down the MOA
it's still just voodoo.

The usual story about Q10 is that it helps the mitochondria, so that
they continue to work even if the main cell is somehow starved. So
it's not really a case of antioxidation being the MOA, as the article
simply speculates. But sure, first you verify the phenomenon, and
then you can go back for the MOA.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-06-03 2:05 PM, JRStern wrote:
> On Sun, 03 Jun 2012 02:05:27 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
> <brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
>
>>> Sure, I agree with all that. In fact, if any clinical guys want to
>>> make a name for themselves, I can help them set up tests of Coenzyme
>>> Q10 that will show its tremendous value. Such test setup for Q10
>>> seems to have escaped the medical, biological, and pharma industries
>>> to date.
>>>
>>
>> I do not know. It iz also called ubiquinone, because it iz
>> ubiquitous. I think that iz bekuz nobody haz ever shown a deficiency
>> in that enzyme. I would be more interested if a phytochemical or a
>> vitamin increased ubiquinone.
>>
>> It iz very unlikely to cause side-effects, though; GRAS.
>>
>> There hav been 8960 studies on ubiquinone, so it would be rather
>> difficult to find something distinctive to study in it.
>> At any rate, this iz a good one:
>> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22595020
>
> It's nice that it comes out positive, but without nailing down the MOA
> it's still just voodoo.

A mode of action iz something that comes from analyzing several in
vitro (or ex vivo) studies, not in vivo studies like that. MOA comes
from secondary and tertiary sources (textbooks), not primary ones
like Pub Med. Many abstracts in primary sources contain rehashings
of textbook conclusions.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

Maybe I am the only one who does it.
I heard someone call it wild cabbage.
It tastes hot, like Horseradish.
I hav seen Horseradish root that wuz not a long tap root, too.
It looked more like Jinjer.

I prefer Red Cabbage and pineapple smoothies, although I suspect
that redness iz in wild cabbage (along with green), which iz why it
is such a dark, leafy green vejtable.
_______
Everyone who believes in telekinesis, raise MY hand!

[randall]

On Jun 3, 9:46 pm, Bohgosity BumaskiL

BB

Good one.

We made a KFC coleslaw clone recently that is xlnt.. not this one:

But close:

Daikon being missing extra umPh..
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daikon

http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/KFC-Cole-Slaw-Recipe.html

[...] http://www.topsecretrecipes.com/KFC-Cole-Slaw-Recipe.html

Amanda doesn't have daikon either:
http://amandascookin.com/2010/06/kfc-coleslaw-recipe.html

And dropping most of the sugar. We like it hotter ( spicy) and less
sweet.

But we added in grated daikon radish and it was almost a clone.
(without the sweetness a few degree's)

But your horseradish cabbage sounds like another option.

Half cup or what? xyz


I also added in to my tooting regime.. more peanut butter.

And i like Traditionally seasoned seaweed with PB.

Cabbage & Pineapple smoothy sounds like a TRIAL i can try?

Great tomato crop so far this year... maybe that with a V8 hot cabbage
fusion?

And some anchovy paste? And some McIlhenny tabasco and celery and ...
whoops

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/McIlhenny_Company


Dang i almost went bloody mary on me...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bloody_Mary_(cocktail)


and now i know what a slutty mary is... LOL

[...] Miscellaneous
Bloodless Mary
Without tomato juice
Screw Mary
Equal parts vodka, orange juice, and tomato juice or V8, spiced to
taste.
Bloody Mary-land, or Crabby Mary
Substitute 2 dashes Old Bay Seasoning for celery salt
Slutty Mary
Garnish with a sausage or simply with extra vodka added.
Bloody Charlie
Garnish with two olives, thus creating a Bloody Mary with balls.
(Mentioned, if not created, by Jean Shepherd in In God We Trust, All
Others Pay Cash.)
<snip>


OK i'm off to the grocery store... <G>


Yet the microbiota you oughta is from mother nature and
those B-12's can be made by gut microbiota.

Yet or So folks with autoimmune conditions lack energy for a specific
reason or three... LOL


next time..


randall... wants some sunflower seeds now... B what?




randall...

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

Dietary phenethylisothiocyanate attenuates bowel inflammation in mice.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20423518
It's a concentrate from Brassica. I do not know which one, and the
classic one for treating ulcers iz B. Oleracea, which iz white
cabbage. I prefer the red, because the anthocyanins are good
antioxidants, too.
I would recommend the whole plant over the concentrate, because
fibre iz good, too.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

In case some people did not make the connection, Pagano's "Leaky Gut
Syndrome" and "Ulcerative Colitis" are probably the same thing.
Ulcers mean intestinal permeability.
_______
Deja Coup: The feeling we overtook this government before.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

On 2012-05-30 11:34 PM, JRStern wrote:

This is a set of reports that probably inspired the Wiley issue:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22398059
Anti-TNF in bowels is blocking TNF in the bowels. That leaves an
oversupply of TNF. These patients are not getting anti-TNF for
psoriasis, so receptors for TNF in their skin makes skin cells
necrose. Their immune system kicks in at that point and removes
these necrose skin cells, which were not really diseased in the
first place. Those skin cells will be replaced, and this iz one
reason why psoriatic skin grows faster than normal skin.

[JRStern]

On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 01:14:17 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>This is a set of reports that probably inspired the Wiley issue:
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22398059
>Anti-TNF in bowels is blocking TNF in the bowels.

So somehow the particular anti-TNF drugs used for IBD manage to only
affect the bowel, and yet shift the behavior of TNF in the skin?

Well, not something anyone would have guessed would happen, and I'd
like to see rather some more MOA before even believing it.

J.

[randall]

On Jun 7, 4:07 pm, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Thu, 07 Jun 2012 01:14:17 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>

> <brewh...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:
> >This is a set of reports that probably inspired the Wiley issue:
> >http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22398059
> >Anti-TNF in bowels is blocking TNF in the bowels.
>
> So somehow the particular anti-TNF drugs used for IBD manage to only
> affect the bowel, and yet shift the behavior of TNF in the skin?
>
> Well, not something anyone would have guessed would happen, and I'd
> like to see rather some more MOA before even believing it.
>
> J.

J,

Well it's not a logic non sequitur (almost) more of a comedic one IMO.
LoL

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tumor_necrosis_factors#Family_members
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MAb#Discovery

While i adhere to Élie Metchnikoff in terms of lactic acid loving gut
bacteria,
i'm not impressed with TNF blockers thusly.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%89lie_Metchnikoff#Research

[...] Mechnikov also developed a theory that aging is caused by toxic
bacteria in the gut and that lactic acid could prolong life. Based on
this theory, he drank sour milk every day. He wrote three books:
Immunity in Infectious Diseases, The Nature of Man, and The
Prolongation of Life: Optimistic Studies, the last of which, along
with Metchnikoff's studies into the potential life-lengthening
properties of lactic acid bacteria (Lactobacillus delbrueckii subsp.
bulgaricus), inspired Japanese scientist Minoru Shirota to begin
investigating the causal relationship between bacteria and good
intestinal health, which eventually led to the worldwide marketing of
Kefir and other fermented milk drinks, or probiotics.
<snip>

To bad he didn't have vitamin D3 supplements back then. Might have
made it to 122. LOL


Hey... for BB... my beans have kicked in to GEAR and i'm now
Farting PROUDLY...Thanks to Benjamin Franklin!

It only took six days of eating BEANs. I now wonder why it took so
long?

Is my Gut flora askew for FARTing? Why did it take so long? Is that
normal?

OK... Let's look at this mAb thingy pooh! Why worry about a ill WIND!


WE need his pmid from above:


ok


http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22398059
J Crohns Colitis. 2012 Jun;6(5):518-23. Epub 2011 Nov 13.
Induction of psoriasis with anti-TNF agents in patients with
inflammatory bowel disease: A report of 21 cases.

Guerra I, Algaba A, Pérez-Calle JL, Chaparro M, Marín-Jiménez I,
García-Castellanos R, González-Lama Y, López-Sanromán A, Manceñido N,
Martínez-Montiel P, Quintanilla E, Taxonera C, Villafruela M, Romero-
Maté A, López-Serrano P, Gisbert JP, Bermejo F.

Source
Digestive Diseases Department, Hospital de Fuenlabrada, Spain.

Abstract
AIM:
Anti-tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-alpha agents are widely used for the
treatment of both inflammatory bowel disease (IBD) and psoriasis.
Psoriatic skin lesions induced by anti-TNF have been described in
patients with IBD. We report a case series of psoriasis induced by
anti-TNF agents in IBD patients.

METHODS:
Systematic analysis of cases of psoriasis induced by anti-TNF in an
IBD patient cohort in tertiary hospitals of Madrid.

RESULTS:
A total of 21 of 1294 patients with IBD treated with anti-TNF-alpha
agents developed drug-induced psoriasis (cumulative incidence 1.62%;
95% CI 1.06%-2.47%): 14 patients with infliximab and 7 with
adalimumab; seventeen with Crohn's disease, 4 with ulcerative colitis.
The onset of skin lesions varied in a wide range of time (after a mean
13±8 doses). The most frequent site of skin lesions was the limbs
(62%) followed by the trunk (48%) and the scalp (43%). The psoriasis
phenotypes were plaque psoriasis (57%), scalp (14%), palmoplantar
pustulosis (14%), pustular generalized psoriasis (5%), guttate (5%)
and inverse (5%). Four patients interrupted the anti-TNF treatment,
and that led to the complete regression of lesions in 1 of them. The
other 17 patients were maintained on anti-TNF therapy and managed with
topical steroids.

CONCLUSION:
Psoriatic lesions can be induced by anti-TNF drugs. Plaque psoriasis
on the extremities and trunk were the most frequent presentations in
our series. Topical steroid treatment is effective in most patients.
Anti-TNF discontinuance may be reserved for patients with severe
psoriasis or patients without response to topical therapy.

PMID: 22398059

Those 1294 ibd cases with 21 onsets to posriasis being .01622% isn't
screaming anything in particular to ME much.

NOT 1.6% but .016 percent. And is that par for the course of all
mAb's and psor de novo onset?

How many out of 100 onset from strep or lithium or or or or or or...

And how many have a complete remission?

WE WISH... i would try the damn things with the hope of stopping them
for that effect! LOL

Oddly one of 21 who stopped TNF blockers did have a complete remission
which i've read for many cases so far.

So?


Lucky so and so... but i'm farting proudly in he MEAN time... <G<

Number 1 we don't know if these 21 had other drugs (lithium based
or ?) that may have caused an onset.

Certainly, TNF blocker's and TNF receptors are more of a question mark
for those who take them.


LOL

For BB i doubt even if he had full blown psoriasis, he would get any
TNF blocking mAb as Canadian meds might go for FAE's for high severity
psoriasis IMO.

I'm not going on an EASTER EGG hunt for that one btw.

Till psor or IBD/crohn's/UC mAbs go generic, FAE's are more economical
and expedient for CANADIAN healthCARE unless they come south for mAb's
at their own expense... LOL

But iirc i did read some mAb's are in the UK healthcare system now.

OK.. #'s mean things... like words and you know about ACTIONS..

So i'm acting...on mAb.. <w>

While BB blames mAb it's still a gut flora trip and some stuPidly
glycan IMO.


OH and genetics.. of course.

269 hits: psoria* ulcerative colitis- pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20ulcerative%20colitis

633 hits: psoria* + crohn's - pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20crohn's

91 hits: ibd + psoria* -pubmed
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20ibd

1,052 hits: psoria* + infliximab
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20infliximab

7 of 1,052 have: de novo
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20infliximab%20de%20novo


#2 of 7

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21752492
J Am Acad Dermatol. 2011 Jul 11.
Psoriasis and palmoplantar pustulosis associated with tumor necrosis
factor-α inhibitors: The Mayo Clinic experience, 1998 to 2010.

Shmidt E, Wetter DA, Ferguson SB, Pittelkow MR.

Source
Mayo Medical School, College of Medicine, Mayo Clinic, Rochester,
Rochester, Minnesota.

Abstract
BACKGROUND:
Tumor necrosis factor (TNF)-α antagonists have been associated with
the induction of de novo or worsening psoriasis.

OBJECTIVE:
We sought to retrospectively examine the clinical characteristics and
outcomes of patients with psoriasis associated with anti-TNF-α
therapy.

METHODS:
We performed a retrospective review of patients with new-onset or
worsening psoriasis during TNF-α inhibitor therapy between 1998 and
2010.

RESULTS:
Of the 56 patients (mean age at psoriasis onset, 48.1 years), 41 (73%)
were female. In all, 22 patients (39%) had Crohn's disease and 14
(25%) had rheumatoid arthritis. Thirty patients (54%) were treated
with infliximab, 19 (34%) with adalimumab, and 7 (12%) with
etanercept. New-onset or worsening psoriasis occurred after a mean
treatment duration of 17.1 months. Plaque psoriasis (n = 27),
palmoplantar pustulosis (n = 25), scalp psoriasis (n = 12),
generalized pustular psoriasis (n = 7), erythrodermic psoriasis (n =
2), and inverse psoriasis (n = 2) were the cutaneous presentations.
Among the 39 patients for whom full treatment response data were
available, 33 (85%) had a complete or partial response; combined
response rates (complete and partial) were slightly higher among those
who discontinued anti-TNF-α therapy (16 of 17 patients [94%]) than
among those who continued anti-TNF-α therapy (17 of 22 patients
[77%]).

LIMITATIONS:
Retrospective nature, possible referral bias, and lack of complete
follow-up for some patients are limitations.

CONCLUSION:
Although some patients sufficiently controlled their psoriasis while
continuing anti-TNF-α therapy, those who discontinued therapy achieved
higher rates of complete response. Further studies should explore the
efficacy and safety of switching to an alternative anti-TNF-α agent.

PMID: 21752492

IF we had FAE in this country then wouldn't that make SENSE? LOL

12 hits: psoria* monoclonal antibodies de novo- pubmed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=psoria*%20%20monoclonal%20antibodies%20de%20novo

886 hits: monoclonal antibodies de novo
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=%20monoclonal%20antibodies%20de%20novo

So tnf blockers (mAbs) cause a lot of de novo cases of DISease.

And i'm not charged uP or blowing an ILL wind for these little money
maker's for big PHARMA.

They do have to pay for creating these drugs.

But IMO it's time to move on... like George Soros and obama did.

And it's time for obama to move on... LOL

Did you hear about that sarah parker and anna wintour supper for
raising bucks? LOL


Wow... i'd pay two cents to meet two complete... nevermind.

And to think i disliked TNF.... it even looks better thinking about
the latter.. LOL


randall.. isn't TNF systemic or maybe for dumbocraps
it is in their rectal regions? LOL

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

-----BEGIN PGP SIGNED MESSAGE-----
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In a thread entitled "Re: Anti-TNF associated psoriasis", On

White cabbage iz a gastric wunder drug.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147134

Receptors for TNF in bowels are different than receptors in skin.
Drugs are not binding TNF: Drugs are binding receptors. Lots of
drugs are like that in neurology. Blocking TNF in bowels makes more
TNF available for skin. It does not shift behaviour of TNF in skin:
TNF drugs for Inflammatory Bowel Disease (IBD) make more Tumour
Necrosis Factor (TNF) available for skin.

It probably works the other way around, too. If you block TNF
receptors for skin, then receptors for bowels could become activated
by surplus TNF.

{{speculation}}
Some people hav skin more sensitive to high levels of TNF.
Some people prone to psoriasis are also prone to IBD.
{{/speculation}}

And, really, in case you did not make the connection, some variety
of Brassica iz the best medicine for inflammatory bowel disease,
ulcerative colitis, or leaky gut syndrome. There iz an alternative
Helicobacter Pylori treatment combining Brassica (Broccoli Sprouts?)
with oil of black currant (If memory serves).

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/20658571
aha. Memory serves.

It's not clear from the abstract whether it wuz in human trials, and
there wuz no way to elevate the trials to randomized,
placebo-controlled, double-blind, crossover studies, because you
can't be blind to your food. Then again...maybe you could put minced
food in a lot of large, black capsules. I wunder what the
alternative to encapsulate would be? Vitamin-fortified spaghetti and
tomato?

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=brassica%20ulcer
Eighteen hits. You can read them all in less than thirty minutes.

The first study I mentioned used ASA (acetyl-salicylic acid) to
cause ulcers. Ibuprofen duz the same thing. That's why there wuz a
release of COX2 inhibitors. They were trying to avoid ulcerogenic
_and_ hepatotoxicity (Tylenol). So, another reason why psoriasis
might be more prevalent in North America than in India or China iz
that we can afford luxuries like pain killers.

_______
Let food be your medicine, and your medicine food.

- --Hippocrates

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[JRStern]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:45:49 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>White cabbage iz a gastric wunder drug.
>http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/22147134

omg you just reminded me of something I left in the trunk of my car
overnight ...

I don't get it, how do you get from ulcers to psoriasis?

J.

[randall]

On Jun 15, 8:36 am, JRStern <JRSt...@foobar.invalid> wrote:
> On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 03:45:49 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
>

jxr


we need to get him laid, perhaps?


Or..... something beyond my ken?

But if the former then it must be genetic and psoriatic? LOL

Yeah he wishes!


And don't eat the fishes this week.... DHA is failing in
many studies.

But not mine!

OK so ... what do we DO for BB?

#1 he's trying to correlate leaky gut with psoriasis
and diet and a few other things, if i'm correct.


And... take dairy for one.... tell the people in India
to stop using dairy... LOL

To stop psoriasis!

Not likely.

Furthermore the people in India get a LOT more UVB's
that make D3 then northern latitude folks.

So that can explain the ~ 1% difference in people
who onset with psoriasis in the first place.

OK... i forgot.. what my next point it.


Duh?


duh?


Oh... it's bb... he's atopic and psoriatic..

What a mix.

Evetsm was the last certifiable person in this group
with that HEARTBREAK.

So?



It's clear to me... i do the history of art with emphasis on
sexuality and genetics (jenetics for BB) and the
heartbreak of psor or atopic skin for BB.


OK... i take the JOB.



randall...


ps... a leaky gut doesn't make enough difference
so far to nail a gene...Till NOW?

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

Were we just talking about a drug that deflects your immune system
from your bowels to your skin?

Ulcers are Pagano's "Leaky Gut Syndrome". They let large, undigested
food particles into your blood. Your immune system digests these at
a premium in your blood stream. Ulcers tax your liver and kidneys, too.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=peptic%20ulcer%20psoriasis
31 Hits. The first one is epidemiology.

[JRStern]

On Fri, 15 Jun 2012 20:06:02 -0600, Bohgosity BumaskiL
<brew...@freenet.edmonton.ab.ca> wrote:

>> I don't get it, how do you get from ulcers to psoriasis?
>

>Were we just talking about a drug that deflects your immune system
>from your bowels to your skin?
>
>Ulcers are Pagano's "Leaky Gut Syndrome". They let large, undigested
>food particles into your blood. Your immune system digests these at
>a premium in your blood stream. Ulcers tax your liver and kidneys, too.

The term "ulcer" by itself generally means a hole in the stomach
lining, and afaik that's a one-way, with blood leaking into the
stomach. Can it go the other say? I dunno. Pretty acid there in the
stomach, would seem to destroy anything it touched.

You could have ulcers down in the intestines, that would let stuff
out, but in general discussions of "leaky gut" have been at the micro
level I thought, just metabolic changes not visible ulcers.

J.

[Bohgosity BumaskiL]

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"Peptic ulcer" and "ulcerative colitis" are internal ulcers.
In medical literature, "ulcer" can also refer to skin.

Vizible ulserz are ekstreem leaky gut.

http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19695168
I should read that twice to get it straight (it introduces a lot of
acronyms), and it seems to mean that a bleeding ulcer can cause
sepsis (septicemia?). I also gather that bleeding ulcers are life
threatening. My uncle Sam died of one. All you would need to cause
either a clot or an embolism in stomach vasculature with a bleeding
ulcer iz a contraction of stomach that exceeded blud pressure.

Vizible ulserz are ekstreem leaky gut.
Probably the best solution for a leaky gut iz kabij.
_______
ENVIRONMENTALISTs duu it until it iz green.

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