Wheatgrass arrived!
Tom Trevathan
arrived yesterday, January 26, true to their word of 8 - 10 days for
shipping. I had to sign for it, and although the package was well wrapped on
one side, a notation on the package said it could be opened for inspection,
and the bottom easily unfolded to reveal the contents. It's a wonder that
everything didn't fall out during shipment.
I've tried my first spray, and I'll try to keep this group posted on my
progress.
Tom Trevathan
URAQT2
Tom Trevathan wrote:
Good luck Tom.
I hope that it works as well for you as it has for Randall and me.
--
DO NOT REPLY TO ADDRESS LISTED ABOVE AS IT IS FALSE.
==============================================================================
Chuck
-ô¿ô-
~
email: upon request I will be send it to you at email address you provide.
For psoriasis information go to: http://www.psoriasis.org/forum/
Yuval Golan-Peretz
Tom Trevathan
Jane_Doe
Tom, this is awesome news!! Keep us posted as to how you are
progressing with the treatment. I have read back through the responses
to Wheatgrass and I am encouraged.
I contacted the folks from that company above and they were so
helpful. I wanted to know if they would allow me to pay in NZD as it's
relatively valued compared to the USD and they were so cool about it.
Anyways, as it turns out I am going to Melbourne in a couple weeks for
a break away and they are based there (great huh?!!!) so I am going to
stop in there and see what they have. I'll let you know if there is
anything else of interest.
Good luck to you,
Jane Doe.
Tom Trevathan
photos that we could display, but unfortunately this newsgroup does not
allow binaries. I'd like to see the setup at the Australian address , and
how they produce their product.
Tom
Jane_Doe wrote:
> "Tom Trevathan" <tomtre...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> news:<101garm...@corp.supernews.com>...
>> The url is: www.wheatgrassactive.com.
>> Enjoy,
>> Tom
>
Barry
> Good for you! Glad you're going to visit them. I wish you could take some
> photos that we could display, but unfortunately this newsgroup does not
> allow binaries. I'd like to see the setup at the Australian address , and
> how they produce their product.
> Tom
>
The Melbourne address on the web site is a second floor office building in
the Melbourne CBD. (trust me - I live here!)
There's nothing to say that they produce anything themselves - I suspect
that they have it contract manufactured in Australia, or import it. Does the
packaging say "made in Australia" or anything like that?
The white and yellow pages give another location in Albert Park (a business
and residential area in inner Melbourne) and a further location (a post
office box number) in Langwarrin, a country area just outside Melbourne.
Would anyone like more info?
Barry Hunt
John B
wheatgrass spray.... 55 Swanston St? Do they have normal shop hours?
Cheers.
--
John B
"Barry" <barry...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message
news:bva57c$1h7e$1...@arachne.labyrinth.net.au...
Tom Trevathan
>
Randall
> news:101gve1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > Good for you! Glad you're going to visit them. I wish you could take some
> > photos that we could display, but unfortunately this newsgroup does not
> > allow binaries. I'd like to see the setup at the Australian address , and
> > how they produce their product.
You can see chucks pictures on their website, can't you?
Wasn't that his rear end, we were talking about before?
As to how it works, simple. Grass grows somewhere, is put
thru a grinder(extracter), processed, formulated and bottled,
shiPPed and used.
I would surmise that early hominids, chewed it and used
a grassy crude poultice. Prior to modern sanitary customs
one would expect that our present genetic tendency to
a hair trigger Th1 immunity had to come from somewhere.
Certainly within expectations of living long enough to
reproduce your DNA successfully.
Why not think of it as half a bell curve with the Th0's at
the toP and the most severe psors (Th1) as the leading 2% edge of
the bell?
> > Tom
> >
>
> The Melbourne address on the web site is a second floor office building in
> the Melbourne CBD. (trust me - I live here!)
Yes, it says Level 2, 55 Swanson St. on the bottle.
I wouldn't expect it to look as nice as the local
Coca-Cola main office. lol
When you think about it, the ingredients in Dermawheat (WGJ)
are coming out of a manger compared to the exotic stuff
(cola nuts/sugar cane etc) from the jungles in coke.
The civilizing factor is the chilling refrigeration
for those "rain forest" products. The home office
of the product BEING a testimony to marketing and
human proclivities in the here and now. You need
it. Why? Brain cells are made haPPier and produce
an opioid or endorPhin that says so.
If its hot out your cooled off drinking a nice icy chilled
cola. Teens quickly ape their folks and add rum to it.
You put the lime in the coconut and shake it all uP. lol
Now, you've really cloned yourself! lol
>
> There's nothing to say that they produce anything themselves - I suspect
> that they have it contract manufactured in Australia, or import it. Does the
> packaging say "made in Australia" or anything like that?
It says "Wholly Produced in Australia" on the bottle under the
address.
But, i'm rather susPect as there where some Japanese writings
on the older bottles. It may be an oriental plot. <BEG>
>
> The white and yellow pages give another location in Albert Park (a business
> and residential area in inner Melbourne) and a further location (a post
> office box number) in Langwarrin, a country area just outside Melbourne.
Could this be an effort to fool hungry rabbits and Kangaroo's?
>
> Would anyone like more info?
Why bother?
You can go to any old health food store worth their
salt and buy wheat grass juice (WGJ) extracted from fresh grass.
Or read this from their website,
http://wheatgrass.com/introtowg/cgbook.html
For some reason, cancer patients do it in the hoPe that it
will detox those evil toxins or something. :(
Poor souls that run outa hoPe usually or folks that attempt
to develop a healthy diet based on some green healing
folklore.
Put the WGJ in your refrigerator to keep fresh and use within a few
days. If that doesn't convince you to try the low hassle/cost
product from www.wheatgrassactive.com , don't bother.
I started on a recalcitrant crunchy knee patch and quickly
discerned that it worked far faster on smaller less
well entrenched patches. I try to use it first thing in
the morning and last thing at nite. It dries quickly
and leaves no stains (green color is removed) and actually
does something positive day in and out.
From a cost benefit perspective, certainly one of the best
strategies to keep your p to a minimum and your psyche almost
as clear.
With the rest of my P dietary rigamarole its a very livable
Pasi till the cure gets here. :)
As fast as science is moving now i expect it in a blink. :)
And the WGJ cost is a fraction of whats hePPening now in
the P world. Truly the bargain basement for frugal psor
heads who've already waited decades with far higher Pasi's.
When you add in sensible eating and exercise and plenty of
sunshine with the proflora program, dare say you may extend
your life sPan. Feeling down and singing the P blues it ain't.
Get those endolPhins, er endorphins, swimming around your
brain again and live life in the here and now.
Even if those scientists can't find a perfect P cure
the grass should keeP you in the pink anyway.
I've already proved to myself recently that i can eat myself
silly with all those things that flared the craP outa
me previously. Cool huh? I can eat pig like a pig and
not flare outa control.
All because of grass!
Now i need to shed those holiday fat cells.
HaPPy new year. What year is it, the monkey?
>
> Barry Hunt
Jane_Doe
> I'm a kiwi and off to Melb on Feb 18 for a few days. Where do I go to buy
> wheatgrass spray.... 55 Swanston St? Do they have normal shop hours?
>
> Cheers.
> --
> John B
Hey John B - fellow kiwi :) I am in Melb on Feb 15! How cool :)
This is the info that I was sent from the people from
Wheatgrassactive:
"Probably the best bet in the CBD is the Flinders Lane Pharmacy
between Swanston and Elizabeth Streets – halfway down on the left
heading west. They always have stock. There is also a list of retail
outlets on our website for Victoria, but the stockists do not always
have supplies. "
Hope that helps. Enjoy your time away.
Jane.
John B
news:864c314b.04012...@posting.google.com...
> "John B" <ting...@anywhere.net> wrote in message
news:<PN1Sb.19526$ws.25...@news02.tsnz.net>...
> > I'm a kiwi and off to Melb on Feb 18 for a few days. Where do I go to
buy
> > wheatgrass spray.... 55 Swanston St? Do they have normal shop hours?
> >
> > Cheers.
> > --
> > John B
>
>
> Hey John B - fellow kiwi :) I am in Melb on Feb 15! How cool :)
>
> This is the info that I was sent from the people from
> Wheatgrassactive:
>
> "Probably the best bet in the CBD is the Flinders Lane Pharmacy
> heading west. They always have stock. There is also a list of retail
> outlets on our website for Victoria, but the stockists do not always
> have supplies. "
>
> Hope that helps. Enjoy your time away.
> Jane.
Thanks Jane. That's a great help.
Enjoy your time in Melb too.
John B
Barry
"Tom Trevathan" <tomtre...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message news:101i2tm...@corp.supernews.com...
URAQT2
John B wrote:
I'm jealous. It is -3F here right now with a wind-chill of over -20F. I think
we should all be able to migrate just like some of the birds do. Winter is
beautiful, but cold like this sure isn't!!
--
URAQT2
Randall wrote:
> "Barry" <barry...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<bva57c$1h7e$1...@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>...
> > "Tom Trevathan" <tomtre...@cox-internet.com> wrote in message
> > news:101gve1...@corp.supernews.com...
> > > Good for you! Glad you're going to visit them. I wish you could take some
> > > photos that we could display, but unfortunately this newsgroup does not
> > > allow binaries. I'd like to see the setup at the Australian address , and
> > > how they produce their product.
>
> You can see chucks pictures on their website, can't you?
>
> Wasn't that his rear end, we were talking about before?
>
Will be taking new pictures this weekend and forwarding them on. I think Dr. Chris intends to put them
up as soon as he gets them. Since I can't see my backside all that well I have to rely on what Laurie
says. She thinks it looks better and says there is much less dead skin on the sheet in the morning.
I believe many of the good doctor's patients are Japanese immigrants to Australia. The bottles in one
of the first shipments I got we wrapped in a Japanese language newspaper from Australia.
--
Randall
> I'm also not heavily into "alternative medicine" (I think of it as
> 'alternatives to medicine'!) unless there's good (not just
> anecdotal/testimonial) evidence.
I guess my anecdotal empirical testimonial doesn't stand for much. lol
I hope no one gets to Tom T before he can give an unbiased
testimonial. lol
The stakes are higher then we can think. I don't know about
you, but that post in the p news thread yesterday about
the 300 million profit at serono got my attention.
Thats alot of pie. If that figure reflects a small percent
then how big was their gross revenue? A big number!
The NDGA in creosote is a real deal supported with lots of
science. I don't see anyone flocking to it.
> The Aust L number means that the product formulation has been looked at
> by the TGA (Therapeutic Goods Administration - our 'equivalent' to the
> FDA) and they don't think it will do any harm. It doesn't mean they
> think it will work!
Right, whats the point for them to do some elses study? Or
Why should your taxes be used to chase an unknown?
If some college gets a grant or two then great. Let the science
begin. Study the effects of wheatgrass as a topical as soon as
possible. Or buy the stuff and maybe the producers of it
will have some extra cash to pay for a nice study.
I'm looking for something in the heat shock protein pathway
for the grassy effects. Just a hunch.
> An Aust R number means the TGA have checked it more thoroughly, for
> efficacy as well as safety.
But what determines that? Customer complaints or ?
> Note the lack of any "real" therapeutic claims on the label.
I can sell you canned air if your a willing buyer.
Gauranteed to keep you alive! Whose gonna test that one?
Close your air holes for a few minutes and check it out
right now. Do i need a real claim on the label and goverment
study to allow me to make the claim?
I can see some senator putting the pork into the budget
right now for some flaky study. Its a fact you need to
breathe to stay healthy. But a drowning warning isn't on
bottled water for practical purposes as we don't forget
how what hole the water goes down. Is drinking canned
air gonna flood the stomach? lol
Is it the product or method to contain it that may cause
some illness that precipitates goverment actions to
check the product.
Customer complaints again?
Or a political stick uP to make you pay for more
goverment actions?
>
We have a GRAS list from the FDA which means you can
use it or something or other. GRAS= Generally recognized as safe.
Take grass! You can eat it or put it on your skin according
to the GRAS list? GRASS is on the GRAS list or we couldn't
buy/sell/purchase it. Whose gonna make a claim as anyone can sell it
to you. Or whose gonna test it to prove its in the p pathway
and will actually clear you some? Those tests are up
to $800 million now in the US of A for that FDA sanction!
Why would the FDA check out the ill effects if there never
was any? Or very few because no one is doing it anyway.
But say tomorrow, millions of psor heads start spraying
and drinking it. And quite a few get a stomach ache like
with FAE (ester of fumaric acid) type of thing?
WELL, i for one wouldn't be surprised. If i start drinking
an ounce or two a day i'd get a headache and stomach ache.
Would i call the fDA and complain? Maybe if i worked for a
biological pharmA producer and feared for my job, should those
millions of users cut into my chunk of the pie.
I just wish i could pick uP a bottle of FAE without
goverment intervention as easily as i can go buy a
ounce or two of wheatgrass extract and spray it on a patch
of psoriasis.
My money may be wearing thin, but then again so is my P patch.
Otherwise i wouldn't waste my time or money for very long.
Jane_Doe
<snip>
>
> Otherwise i wouldn't waste my time or money for very long.
Randall - how long have you been using wheatgrass. Could you explain
the timeline of cause/effect on your P? I am interested.
Thanks!
JaneDoe :-)
Randall
> "Barry" <barry...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<bvc2g2$utv$1...@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>...
> > I'm also not heavily into "alternative medicine" (I think of it as
> > 'alternatives to medicine'!) unless there's good (not just
> > anecdotal/testimonial) evidence.
>
> I guess my anecdotal empirical testimonial doesn't stand for much. lol
>
Found an article to go along with some of those previous thoughts,
(You may need to subscribe, its free)
http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-pillpusher05feb01,1,6728671.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine
URAQT2
Jane_Doe wrote:
I have been using it for one year now.
Randall
Hi,
Chuck and I both started about the same time
last year. Late winter or early,
Spring, when i'm either clearing some or having a slight
flare of no consequence. Seems to vary with whats called june
(starts in may) gloom and the amount of available sunlight on
the coast where i live.
I figured it would be a bad time to start. As how much
_medicine_ clearing could i give any credence to it? As i clear anyway
that time of year! A real dilemma as i test continually and
don't want to screw up anything else in the mix at the time.
So, i figured i would only use it on the right knee
as that would be the last place to really change.
If it changed faster then the rest of the patches, then i
would be on to something. Maybe! I was sceptical!
I just didn't expect to fall in love with the stuff
so fast. Once you start using it, the vanity factor takes
over. Which for me is good and bad for a variety of reasons.
In the late summer i went into a lidex topical
study and had to stop using it. :(
But i did meet a great derm and neat office that
i recommend highly. :)
I was positive that i was on the placebo as i flared some
after the first couple of days. But also spent more then
a few days at the beach towards the end of summer that
had a definite positive effect. I can easily spend hours in the ocean
and on the beach when i take the time to run on down
there. When my kids show up and want to hit the beach i
make time. I could be in Bora Bora right now and loving it.
From here to eternity. lol
In the deeP blue sea and on white hot sand beaches!
When fall and winter P flares started uP last year the grass
was total salvation. I love to eat and know exactly how
much i can cheat based on many years of going around this
seasonal cycle. I call it the P tide. When i flare, i watch
what i eat the way a weight conscious person watches the
scale.
We are both scale weary in our own ways. ;~0
Analogous to a high tide in January with a perfect storm push
and the usual P flares exacerbate to unacceptable levels of
p patches. I may be a guy, but vain anyway, more so then those
that live and love me ever notice. While every one else is eating
and making merry i become highly discriminatory of all victuals.
Isn't that the norm for us? We are more self critical then others
will ever be. I openly display my P now and have made numerous psor
friends over the years. That in and of it self is strange as
the flares seem to be nearly universal in my small community
of p friends, at times. Or so it seems.
Was i always this open with showing it? NOPE
The grass has taken it down to a show off level, i guess.
I have just enough con-troll, that i can say screw it.
What's left is me. I work hard enough to get where i'm at,
this is what you get should i wear shorts, sleeves/sandals etc.
The grass was just the Rx in my program that makes the
difference.
I find a shot after coming outa the water or AM and PM
is the plan.
If i could find a few more things (kalawalla etc) to add in,
who knows?
The creosote has good prospects from what i've seen so far
after six weeks. :)
If i was to start a test on it again, i would have started right
now. If you can't see it now then when?
URAQT2
If you would like to see the latest photos of my back, leg and knee you may see them at
http://www.wheatgrassprofessional.info/psor_cp.htm
Frankly, I was surprised myself when I saw them side by side with the others. Since it is difficult for me to see my back
I really didn't realize the improvement is a great as it is. The lesion on my left leg has been there for so many years
that I no longer remember when it first appeared. It is almost unbelievable that so much of it has returned to normal
using the wheatgrass spray. The one on my right knee has been there since I had an bad scrape there in 1988. I have never
seen it looking as good as it does since that time.
I am thrilled!
Tom Trevathan
I'm still using it (wheatgrass spray) twice a day and have begun to see some
improvements already. Of course it has just been about three weeks since my
last spray of "SkinCap", but by this time more of the scaling would have
returned, and it seems that the wheatgrass spray has kept it down.
I have a couple of spots that are weeping, however, where skin does not
appear to have completely formed. I've got to watch them carefully.
Anyway, congratulations!
Tom Trevathan
Randall
> ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote in message news:<df7e2c67.04020...@posting.google.com>...
> > "Barry" <barry...@yahoo.com.au> wrote in message news:<bvc2g2$utv$1...@arachne.labyrinth.net.au>...
> > > I'm also not heavily into "alternative medicine" (I think of it as
> > > 'alternatives to medicine'!) unless there's good (not just
> > > anecdotal/testimonial) evidence.
> >
> > I guess my anecdotal empirical testimonial doesn't stand for much. lol
Then again, why should they? Just because randall protocols work
for me, they may only work for moderate folks now that
i've lowered it to that level.
This canary hasn't been able to warble to the severe psors for quite
some time now.
But was it due to less AA in the diet or a stroke of luck?
I'd T-bet the AA ratio, as i watched it for so many moons.
I could induce a massive AA flare and try all over again.
But there isn't enough green tea in China to float that boat
right now.
I want to not only hold captured territory but gain more from
the P foe.
No mo P!
> >
> Hi,
>
> Found an article to go along with some of those previous thoughts,
> (You may need to subscribe, its free)
> http://www.latimes.com/features/printedition/magazine/la-tm-pillpusher05feb01,1,6728671.story?coll=la-headlines-magazine
So, could you imagine thousands of grandma tyPes swilling
down grass juice and puking left and right? If the grass
producer had a huge lumP of cash in the till, the lawyers
would be swarming like flies over dead meat. Providing
grandama went the eternal route, so much the better for a nice
fAT payday.
Whats the FDA's role in this again?
What if lepers and psor heads showed uP in Parks across the
country and started smoking that grass?
Or just ate bromine banana's and did this with the skins,
http://www.straightdope.com/columns/020426.html
Could be FDA hell to Pay!
Heck the goverment could induce/incite the whole thing then swallow
their own tail and the poPulace could fund it all with tax
revenue. Are the rich paying to little again?
In the meantime i'll stay with melatonin, so when i'm awake
my day time B-rain CELLS are fully working.
I could use a little naP, now. lol
Those insane over paid gov'ers will tax that next, right
after their latest proposed fat taxes.
ButT, if you ain't fat should you have to pay THEM?
OK
OK!
I know
I'll find
the ground hog hole.
No fresh grass on this frozen terrain.
Just leftover bush and fresh prunish berries.
But can kerry win without EDwards to take the south?
Hey this hole is dark and cold.
Unknown
I just got my shipment of this stuff as I figured I'd give it a go.
Oddly, however I was expecting it to be green or at least smell like
wheatgrass.
In fact it's pretty much clear.
The ingredients listing is
Purified Water, Sugar cane ethanol, triticum aestivum leaf, and
glycerol (vegetable)
There are no percentages on parts utilized but I don't smell any of
the wheatgrass (triticum aestivum) but it does smell rather of alcohol
most likely due to the close neighbours ethanol or glycerol being in
high abundance.
What so far rather makes me skeptical is how much it feels like just
spraying plain water on my skin.
Well I bought it because I'll try anything which doesn't sound
horribly dangerous once so I suppose I'll see.
Back to lurking.
-Me
URAQT2
lord_god wrote:
I thought the same things when I first got it.
I have a very sensitive sense of smell and taste. I can smell alcohol on
someone's breath from across the room, but the alcohol percentage in the
wheatgrass spray must be very low. I use four spritzes orally per day and
taste no alcohol at all.
JXStern
>The ingredients listing is
>Purified Water, Sugar cane ethanol, triticum aestivum leaf, and
>glycerol (vegetable)
>
>There are no percentages on parts utilized but I don't smell any of
>the wheatgrass (triticum aestivum) but it does smell rather of alcohol
>most likely due to the close neighbours ethanol or glycerol being in
>high abundance.
>What so far rather makes me skeptical is how much it feels like just
>spraying plain water on my skin.
>Well I bought it because I'll try anything which doesn't sound
>horribly dangerous once so I suppose I'll see.
Ethanol is exactly the alcohol one gets in beverages.
If this stuff doesn't clear you right up, refill the bottle with gin
and try again.
J.
URAQT2
URAQT2 wrote:
> lord_god wrote:
>
Where the heck did that line come from?
It's in the message I sent and I did not put it there?
Spirits?
Whatever it was, it wasn't on purpose.
--
Chuck
-ôżô-
~
Randall
Well! I'll take mine straight uP and with grin!
We finally found a cocktail that works then. :)
To bad its a toPical! lol
OTOH, its nice to know that permeability can finally be made
to work for us and not against us.
For those non techies, go to www.deja.com and keyword: permeability psoriasis
> J.
Randall
> JXStern <JXSternC...@gte.net> wrote in message news:<b6kk205fmolmruekc...@4ax.com>...
> > On Wed, 11 Feb 2004 01:34:41 -0500, lord_god <> wrote:
> > >The ingredients listing is
> > >Purified Water, Sugar cane ethanol, triticum aestivum leaf, and
> > >glycerol (vegetable)
> > >
> > >There are no percentages on parts utilized but I don't smell any of
> > >the wheatgrass (triticum aestivum) but it does smell rather of alcohol
> > >most likely due to the close neighbours ethanol or glycerol being in
> > >high abundance.
> > >What so far rather makes me skeptical is how much it feels like just
> > >spraying plain water on my skin.
Ok! But your the lord_god! You can bless the water and make it holy.
lol
If your using this spray, you above ALL should have a rePort by now.
I wonder why Edgar Cayce/Nostradamus didn't see this one coming. lol
Did L_G keep some secrets so as to make it more mysterious?
> > >Well I bought it because I'll try anything which doesn't sound
> > >horribly dangerous once so I suppose I'll see.
I hope you see nothing, L_G!
Plain old skin without a flake we pray. :)
Hosanna and Hallelujah is what we want to hear!
> >
[sniP]
> OTOH, its nice to know that permeability can finally be made
> to work for us and not against us.
>
> For those non techies, go to www.deja.com and keyword: permeability psoriasis
Ok, i'll bite! Since we haven't gotten one comment on this.
As you can see. This is a highly contentious area.
Why wouldn't it be? We have para(noid-ab)normal people
telling us we have leaky guts right down to truly scientific
dermatologist researchers telling us that crohns/IBD
are related to P, beyond chance!
You don't just wander into this one without sharP brain
cells. lol
J this is what i look at for TNF and T cells. The LPS!
Of course the dendritic cells (DCs) also figure in, but,
The LPS is in there! Right in the intestines!
http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/images/immunology105_12002fig2.gif
You know that by now i hoPe, lol
(scrool about three quarters of the way down the page for an
explanation
of the diagram above.)
http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/tnf_in_colitis.htm
As you can see this isn't a p page. And most of us don't
have gut problems. Or do we and just don't know it?
This gut thing is at the heart of most I.M.I.D.s btw.
If their not all researching it, they should be.
Why hasn't it been deemed the start of P?
The etiological starting Point for the psor war?
Why would the pharmA's and biotechs coP to that?
And besides,
Anyone can have leaky guts! Alcoholics do!
But, while a HIGH percentage of us abuse that demon rum cocktail,
it doesn't account for the lack of a high percentage of
alcoholics with psoriasis. Your gut, due to trauma or
surgery, gets to leaky and you simply die of sePsis.
What if you leak (permeate) a little bit? No crohns
or IBD or any other gut clues at hand?
We have to move uPstream for another p gene in this puzzle.
The chloride co-transporter gene, discovered by a swedish
p researcher and now shopping it to biotechs, works to detox
the LPS in the liver cells. And your liver is half way to the skin.
When the liver gets overly congested it simply shunts
the crud into the lymph. A good argument to dry skin brush
as a stimulative factor can be made for those of us to lazy
to exercise or simply walk more. Exercise is the heart of
the lymph or it doesn't move. MOve it or lose it.
Well, there are a bunch of key words to play with here.
Go to www.deja.com and enter: psoriasis (and click the group
alt.suPPort.skin-diseases.psoriasis) and then
keyword anything you question. Such as loma lux or phototherapy
etc etc.
All current questions are searchable via the P NG or ASSDP.
Click the circle to search this group only. There you have it.
Isn't it time for kim to post the P FAQs again?
The near universality of the biologicals good effects is
getting boring. Well, to me at least.
Can we talk!
We know we can google this stuff.
> > J.
Randall
>
> The LPS is in there! Right in the intestines!
Note for those willing to read this. Your gut includes
large and small intestines as well as stomach. From
your mouth to your rectum. You say, so what?
Where/what we are concerned with as psoriatics is the mucosal layer
and how Tnf-alpha comes into play in inflammation. Also
the effects of LPS and how it may effect psoriasis from the
gut to the liver cells and out into the skin.
> http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/images/immunology105_12002fig2.gif
>
>
> (scrool about three quarters of the way down the page for an
> explanation
> of the diagram above.)
> http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/tnf_in_colitis.htm
>
>
> As you can see this isn't a p page. And most of us don't
> have gut problems. Or do we and just don't know it?
Some of us on the other hand will notice a simple backing
up of the bowels upon a daily consumption of wheat products.
No big deal or is it?
Whats going on down there?
This has been one of my main areas of concern for Psoriasis. If
we can't stop the Tnf-alpha in the gut, and the
proflora/wit kit from www.thewholewhey.com does
that used correctly with diet considerations adhered to strictly,
we will always suffer the rebounds. Chronic relapse isn't
my idea of fun and all the current treatments insure them.
I don't care how much money you put on the table. Till
your willing to intervene in the gut, psoriasis is simply
incurable.
Every now and then i find something that has that cure smell
to it. I found this recently in signalling pathways,
How can we mount an immune response to pathogenic bacteria in the gut
yet tolerate the large number of commensals that live inside us?
Pro-inflammatory responses to pathogenic bacteria by intestinal
epithelial cells involve gene transcription activated by translocation
of nuclear factor-B (NF-B) into the nucleus. This study now shows that
anti-inflammatory responses to commensals are mediated by a reversal
of this NF-B movement. This shuttling of transcription factors out of
the nucleus occurs by a new pathway involving peroxisome proliferator
activated receptor- (PPAR-gamma).
[ ppar gamma link to ncbi,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=5468 ]
Exposure of intestinal epithelial-cell cultures (Caco-2 cells) to the
pathogenic bacterium Salmonella enteritidis resulted in the
upregulation of expression of pro-inflammatory genes encoding, for
example, interleukin-8 (IL-8). However, addition of the anaerobic gut
commensal Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron attenuated this response. The
reduced levels of IL-8
[ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=3576 ]
resulting from exposure to B. thetaiotaomicron correlated with reduced
neutrophil recruitment to the intestinal epithelium and with less
histological disruption of the ileal mucosa in rats infected with both
bacteria.
Next, the authors looked at how these responses to gut bacteria are
controlled. Exposure of Caco-2 cells to S. enteritidis led to nuclear
import of the NF-B subunit RelA; addition of B. thetaiotaomicron did
not alter the initial nuclear translocation of RelA,
( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=5970)
but did result in accelerated cytoplasmic redistribution. In other
systems, cytoplasmic retention of NF-B is mediated by the inhibitor of
NF-B (IB) complex, but there was no difference in IB phosphorylation
or degradation in Caco-2 cells exposed to B. thetaiotaomicron.
Furthermore, nuclear export of RelA did not involve CRM1 (exportin 1),
which is the only known pathway for the movement of NF-B complexes out
of the nucleus.
However, nuclear accumulation of RelA in response to S. enteritidis
did correlate with nuclear import of PPAR-, which was also
redistributed to the cytoplasm after co-culture with B.
thetaiotaomicron. RelA and PPAR- were found to associate, explaining
their common localization. In cells in which the level of PPAR- was
decreased or its binding to RelA was prevented, the inhibitory effect
of B. thetaiotaomicron on transcription did not occur. Using
fluorescent labelling and RNA interference, the authors confirmed that
PPAR- is essential for the nucleocytoplasmic redistribution of RelA in
response to B. thetaiotaomicron.
As B. thetaiotaomicron is prevalent in the human gut, the
anti-inflammatory pathway described in this study might make an
important contribution to immune homeostasis and be a relevant
therapeutic target for inflammatory conditions of the gut. The new
nuclear export mechanism involving PPAR- could also be a more general
method of transcriptional control.
Kirsty Minton
Thanks Kirsty for a great little article. Hopefully someday soon the
importance of these gut critters may lead to a simple cure of
inflammatory
conditions like psoriasis.
Here are a few more links to the above,
http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/ni/journal/v5/n1/abs/ni1018_r.html&dynoptions=doi1078254828
May as well take the time to do a thread on it,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=14691478
>
> This gut thing is at the heart of most I.M.I.D.s btw.
> If their not all researching it, they should be.
>
> Why hasn't it been deemed the start of P?
> The etiological starting Point for the psor war?
Not enough gut bug hunches in the P DNA realm, but there
coming now.
>
>
> And besides,
>
> Anyone can have leaky guts! Alcoholics do!
>
> But, while a HIGH percentage of us abuse that demon rum cocktail,
> it doesn't account for the lack of a high percentage of
> alcoholics with psoriasis. Your gut, due to trauma or
> surgery, gets to leaky and you simply die of sePsis.
>
> What if you leak (permeate) a little bit? No crohns
> or IBD or any other gut clues at hand?
>
> We have to move uPstream for another p gene in this puzzle.
>
> The chloride co-transporter gene, discovered by a swedish
> p researcher and now shopping it to biotechs, works to detox
> the LPS in the liver cells. And your liver is half way to the skin.
>
> When the liver gets overly congested it simply shunts
> the crud into the lymph. A good argument to dry skin brush,
> as a stimulative factor, can be made for those of us to lazy
> to exercise or simply walk more. Exercise is the heart of
> the lymph or it doesn't move. MOve it or lose it.
Are we not talking more then immunity now?
>
> Well, there are a bunch of key words to play with here.
>
> Go to www.deja.com and enter: psoriasis (and click the group
> alt.suPPort.skin-diseases.psoriasis) and then
> keyword anything you like.
I like TNF, LPS, Il-8, NF-kappaB, caco-2, iP6, etc
>
> All current questions are searchable via the P NG or ASSDP.
> Click the circle to search this group only. There you have it.
Randall
> ranh...@aol.com (Randall) wrote in message news:<df7e2c67.0402...@posting.google.com>...
> >
> > The LPS is in there! Right in the intestines!
Where is the iron in the gut? And whats it doing now?
http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/images/immunology105_12002fig2.gif
> > http://www.pathology.unibe.ch/Forschung/muc_immun/tnf_in_colitis.htm
> >
> >
> > As you can see this isn't a p page. And most of us don't
> > have gut problems. Or do we and just don't know it?
>
> Some of us on the other hand will notice a simple backing
> up of the bowels upon a daily consumption of wheat products.
> No big deal or is it?
>
> Whats going on down there?
Lets take away the wheat from the wheatgrass and examine
the contents, one more time.
Some abstracts say CD and P is a simple coincidence. But, is it?
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=12477369&dopt=Abstract
[snip] the reported association of celiac disease (CD) with psoriasis
seems to be coincidental.
Is that the end of the wheaty story here?
NoPe,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?cmd=Retrieve&db=PubMed&list_uids=14690336&dopt=Abstract
[snip] In the entire group of patients, as well as in those on a
gluten-free diet as the only treatment, Ki67 + cells in involved
dermis were highly significantly decreased after the diet. There was a
significant decrease in Ki67 + cells even in patients without
increased intraepithelial lymphocytes. Tissue transglutaminase was
highly overexpressed in involved skin in the papillary endothelium,
and decreased by 50% after gluten-free diet. The possible role of
tissue transglutaminase in the pathogenesis of psoriasis needs further
investigation.
PMID: 14690336
Did you know that wheat defeats vitamin D in the gut and takes
it out the rear end?
Grains (wheat) are taking out vitamin D in this gut situation,
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=food+pyramid+randall++gliadin+group:alt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=df7e2c67.0211271112.2d3eb03f%40posting.google.com&rnum=1
Loren Cordain: Epidemiological studies of populations consuming high
levels of unleavened whole grain breads show vitamin D deficiency to
be widespread. A study of radio-labelled 25 hydroxyvitamin
D3(25(OH)D3) in humans consuming 60g of wheat bran daily for 30 days
clearly demonstrated an enhanced elimination of 25(OH)D3 in the
intestinal lumen. The mechanism by which cereal grain consumption
influences vitamin D is unclear. Some investigators have suggested
that cereal grains may interfere with the enterohepatic circulation of
vitamin D or its metabolites, whereas others have shown that calcium
deficiency increases that rate of inactivation of vitamin D in
theliver. This effect is mediated by 1,25 dihydroxyvitamin D
(1,25(OH)2D)produced in response to secondary hyperparathyroidism,
which promotes hepatic conversion of vitamin D to polar inactivation
products which are excreted in bile. Consequently, the low Ca/P ratio
of cerealgrains has the ability to elevate PTH which in turn
stimulates increased production of (1,25(OH)2D) which causes an
accelerated loss of 25 hydroxy vitamin D.
If you get less sun during the winter, thus less vitamin D and
eat more wheat/bread/rolls/cakes/donuts/pasta etc, your
gonna lose Vitamin D!
Now your at risk for colon cancer. Why don't we see more of it
for psoriatics then?
High TNF-alpha levels again? Or what? Just the plain old Th1 skew?
What does it really mean?
OK, here's a link to zinc and iron and colon cancer.
Life Extension Weekly Update Exclusive Heme iron raises, zinc lowers
colon cancer risk
The March 3 2004 issue of the Journal of the National Cancer Institute
published the results of a study which found a positive association
between the possible prooxidant heme iron and colon cancer, and a
negative association between the antioxidant zinc and the disease.
These associations were stronger among consumers of alcohol than among
nondrinkers. Heme iron is found in meat and seafood and is better
absorbed than nonheme iron, found in plants.
The researchers analyzed data from the Iowa Women's Health Study,
which examined cancer risk factors in postmenopausal women. The
current study included 37,708 women who completed questionnaires which
provided information on diet and cancer risk factors at the beginning
of the study in 1986. The women were followed for fifteen years,
during which 303 distal and 438 proximal cases of colon cancer were
diagnosed.
Adjusted analysis found a trend of rising proximal colon cancer risk
with increased heme iron intake while the risk declined with increased
zinc intake, with both associations stronger in women who consumed
alcohol. Zinc intake was also found to be protective against the risk
of distal colon cancer regardless of alcohol intake.
Free, not bound iron has been found to cause cancer. Because alcohol
disrupts iron homeostasis, it may be responsible for generating free
iron, increasing cancer risk. Zinc has known antioxidant qualities,
and dysregulation of certain proteins containing zinc is found more
often in colon cancers than in the normal colon. In addition, iron can
substitute for zinc at a molecular level and may be responsible for
some DNA damage. These factors may help to explain the findings of
this study. Because meat is a good source of both heme iron and zinc,
this may account for the conflicting findings of studies that have
examined the relationship of meat consumption to colon cancer.
How toxic is this free iron?
http://www.ansci.cornell.edu/plants/toxicagents/iron.html
And what else is going on in the p gut for gosh sakes,
http://www.lef.org/protocols/prtcl-148b.shtml#pgene
(P53 gene mutation info from LEF)
Will a supplement help out or not?
Vitamin D in a bottle,
http://mercola.com/forms/vitamind.htm
Do we have to wait for the real beef? Where's the omega-3 beef?
Omega 3 beef coming to a butcher near you?
http://mercola.com/2004/mar/3/fish_oil_beef.htm
Flax seed oil may not be the best omega-3 fat, but
certaintly does a host of things beneficial for the average
psoriatic,
http://mercola.com/2002/apr/3/evolution.htm
OK, ok you say. I got it, get some sun or vitamin D.
But, is there a key here to the nature of P?
P53 p ng search,
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=P53&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dalt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
Notice, #2 (Burning Psoriasis lesions?) and Ed's hyperthermia question
regarding P53 and lowering P. Does this not also bring into question
the hot tub and ANP to lower Tnf-alpha, iNOS and NF-KappaB?
Post #3 (P Genes) in the above search shows P/53 and HSP72
relationships.
(HSP72 -Heat shock Proteins/72)
And of course the last one in that search (Food pyramids) is one of my
favorites. <G>
If we activetly suppress P53 to lower psoriasis we open the cancer
door,
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=14962108
Is that why we are skewed towards Th1 (high TNF-alpha levels) to block
cancer? Or does a Paleo high meat lowered refined sugar diet induce
TNF? Or are the carbs the suspects in this condition? Generating LPS
from the paleo skewed meatabolism? The LPS isn't taken out in the
mucosal layer of the gut or by the hepatocytes of the liver and get
shunted out into the lymph and the skin and act as superantigens
(SA's)?
Nope the SA's are SA's.
Couldn't we just take some antibiotics then?,
Well, no.
We can take the iron outa the gut.
So, we have all this *free iron* in the gut as well as systemic wide,
due to
eating all that meat and drinking alcohol? But apricots have higher
levels
of iron then liver? True, regardless we need to lower *free* iron
levels
to see less gut bugs (endotoxins) to lower LPS and superantigens.
How does one do that?
Eating the right phytates will do it. Or just go get some in IP6
supplements.
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=ISO-8859-1&q=iP-6&btnG=Google+Search&meta=group%3Dalt.support.skin-diseases.psoriasis
Whats the gut hunch in all of this?
http://groups.google.com/groups?q=g:thl1306621024d&dq=&hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&selm=df7e2c67.0304181122.ba595a2%40posting.google.com&rnum=55
Just LPS or superantigens and LPS?
Whatever!
Taking them both out or making the mucosal layer work
to your advantage are good gut plans.
> This has been one of my main areas of concern for Psoriasis. If
> we can't stop the Tnf-alpha in the gut, and the
> proflora/wit kit from www.thewholewhey.com does
> that used correctly with diet considerations adhered to strictly,
> we will always suffer the rebounds. Chronic relapse isn't
> my idea of fun and all the current treatments insure them.
In light of the above posts, i'd say keeping the colon and gut
in oPtimal condition will ensure only slight rebounds, once
you upgraded to mostly beneficial acid loving bacteria in
the colon.
>
> I don't care how much money you put on the table. Till
> your willing to intervene in the gut, psoriasis is simply
> incurable.
How much are we now spending on chronic relapses? Plenty!
>
> Every now and then i find something that has that cure smell
> to it. I found this recently in signalling pathways,
This PPar-gamma stuff is very important. As its in the
direct path of inflammation and closer to the inception of
the same then anything else, almost,
>
> How can we mount an immune response to pathogenic bacteria in the gut
> yet tolerate the large number of commensals that live inside us?
> Pro-inflammatory responses to pathogenic bacteria by intestinal
> epithelial cells involve gene transcription activated by translocation
> of nuclear factor-B (NF-B) into the nucleus. This study now shows that
> anti-inflammatory responses to commensals are mediated by a reversal
> of this NF-B movement. This shuttling of transcription factors out of
> the nucleus occurs by a new pathway involving peroxisome proliferator
> activated receptor- (PPAR-gamma).
> [ ppar gamma link to ncbi,
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=5468 ]
All pointing to a teeter/totter or Th1/Th2 condition that
the body utilizes to keep from going to far in either direction.
LIke Th2 leads to cancer eventually and high Th1 leads to increase
psoriasis or more of whatever IMID you have.
> Exposure of intestinal epithelial-cell cultures (Caco-2 cells) to the
> pathogenic bacterium Salmonella enteritidis resulted in the
> upregulation of expression of pro-inflammatory genes encoding, for
> example, interleukin-8 (IL-8). However, addition of the anaerobic gut
> commensal Bacteroides thetaiotaomicron attenuated this response. The
> reduced levels of IL-8
> [ http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=3576 ]
Go to www.deja.com and keyword: IL-8 or CACO-2 cells .
> resulting from exposure to B. thetaiotaomicron correlated with reduced
> neutrophil recruitment to the intestinal epithelium and with less
> histological disruption of the ileal mucosa in rats infected with both
> bacteria.
> Next, the authors looked at how these responses to gut bacteria are
> controlled. Exposure of Caco-2 cells to S. enteritidis led to nuclear
> import of the NF-B subunit RelA; addition of B. thetaiotaomicron did
> not alter the initial nuclear translocation of RelA,
> ( http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=5970)
Go to www.deja.com and keyword: randall NF-KappaB
> but did result in accelerated cytoplasmic redistribution. In other
> systems, cytoplasmic retention of NF-B is mediated by the inhibitor of
> NF-B (IB) complex, but there was no difference in IB phosphorylation
> or degradation in Caco-2 cells exposed to B. thetaiotaomicron.
> Furthermore, nuclear export of RelA did not involve CRM1 (exportin 1),
> which is the only known pathway for the movement of NF-B complexes out
> of the nucleus.
> However, nuclear accumulation of RelA in response to S. enteritidis
> did correlate with nuclear import of PPAR-, which was also
> redistributed to the cytoplasm after co-culture with B.
> thetaiotaomicron. RelA and PPAR-gamma were found to associate, explaining
> their common localization. In cells in which the level of PPAR- was
> decreased or its binding to RelA was prevented, the inhibitory effect
> of B. thetaiotaomicron on transcription did not occur. Using
> fluorescent labelling and RNA interference, the authors confirmed that
> PPAR- is essential for the nucleocytoplasmic redistribution of RelA in
> response to B. thetaiotaomicron.
> As B. thetaiotaomicron is prevalent in the human gut, the
> anti-inflammatory pathway described in this study might make an
> important contribution to immune homeostasis and be a relevant
> therapeutic target for inflammatory conditions of the gut. The new
> nuclear export mechanism involving PPAR- could also be a more general
> method of transcriptional control.
(note-- all the ppar's with a -, like this PPAR- are meant to be
gamma.
Thus all PPAR-gamma's for the above PPAR-'s )
> Kirsty Minton
>
> Thanks Kirsty for a great little article. Hopefully someday soon the
> importance of these gut critters may lead to a simple cure of
> inflammatory
> conditions like psoriasis.
>
> Here are a few more links to the above,
> http://www.nature.com/cgi-taf/DynaPage.taf?file=/ni/journal/v5/n1/abs/ni1018_r.html&dynoptions=doi1078254828
>
> May as well take the time to do a thread on it,
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Display&dopt=pubmed_pubmed&from_uid=14691478
Yet, i haven't taken the time to read more then a few.
Have you? Ed?
>
> >
> > This gut thing is at the heart of most I.M.I.D.s btw.
> > If their not all researching it, they should be.
> >
> > Why hasn't it been deemed the start of P?
> > The etiological starting Point for the psor war?
>
> Not enough gut bug hunches in the P DNA realm, but there
> coming now.
> >
>
> >
> > And besides,
> >
> > Anyone can have leaky guts! Alcoholics do!
> >
> > But, while a HIGH percentage of us abuse that demon rum cocktail,
But is the free iron and the liver intolerance both the same
for the IMID's as well as the alcoholics that present that way?
Seems like it to me. And is a very large clue.
> > it doesn't account for the lack of a high percentage of
> > alcoholics with psoriasis. Your gut, due to trauma or
> > surgery, gets to leaky and you simply die of sePsis.
Or hit bottom and realize that a life can be saved from
the waste basket. What about the P life lost to
the physic manifestations of P. Forget about it and
move on.
Get up right now and move it. Walk, run jump and
move on.
> >
> > What if you leak (permeate) a little bit? No crohns
> > or IBD or any other gut clues at hand?
> >
> > We have to move uPstream for another p gene in this puzzle.
> >
> > The chloride co-transporter gene, discovered by a swedish
> > p researcher and now shopping it to biotechs, works to detox
> > the LPS in the liver cells. And your liver is half way to the skin.
> >
> > When the liver gets overly congested it simply shunts
> > the crud into the lymph. A good argument to dry skin brush,
> > as a stimulative factor, can be made for those of us to lazy
> > to exercise or simply walk more. Exercise is the heart of
> > the lymph or it doesn't move. MOve it or lose it.
>
> Are we not talking more then immunity now?
> >
> > Well, there are a bunch of key words to play with here.
> >
> > Go to www.deja.com and enter: psoriasis (and click the group
> > alt.suPPort.skin-diseases.psoriasis) and then
> > keyword anything you like.
>
> I like TNF, LPS, Il-8, NF-kappaB, caco-2, iP6, etc
Hey! Thanks me. The caco-2 and iP6 lead to this very long post. lol
Randall
I really love wheatgrass spray used topically with
my program to lower p naturally. I haven't been this
happy this time or year in years!
And i loved this last post. You can read it by clicking
the above link.
Which dealt with P-53 genes, effects of free iron in the gut
and many more ways to deal with these in a well thought
out psoriasis strategey to unskew from the T helper
cell situation we are all in, known as Th1.
The more skewed towards Th1, the worse your psoriasis.
The real scientists are working away on it. The more
we understand T cells the better to correct them and understand
the ramifications in doing so.
Here's the latest article i've picked up on it.
http://www.signaling-gateway.org/update/updates/200403/nri1326.html
T-cell development: Survivin against the odds
Survivin, a member of the inhibitor of apoptosis protein family, has
an important role in T-cell development.
Most developing thymocytes are destined to die; so what enables them
to overcome the odds, and survive and mature into functional T cells?
Reporting in The Journal of Experimental Medicine, two groups have
identified an important role for survivin — a member of the inhibitor
of apoptosis protein (IAP) family — in T-cell development.
[survivin-- http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/LocusLink/LocRpt.cgi?l=11799 ]
T-cell development in the thymus involves a series of distinct stages
that can be defined by the expression of cell-surface markers. Early T
cells are CD4-CD8- double negative (DN) and can be further subdivided
into DN1, DN2, DN3 and DN4 stages based on their expression of CD25
and CD44. Productive rearrangement of the T-cell receptor (TCR) -chain
locus occurs during the DN3 to DN4 transition and leads to expression
of the pre-TCR. Only cells that express a functional pre-TCR undergo
marked proliferation and differentiate into CD4+ CD8+ double-positive
(DP) cells. However, most DP cells die through negative selection or
neglect because their TCRs have too high or too low affinity for
peptide–MHC complexes. Those that mature successfully migrate to the
periphery as functional CD4+ CD8- or CD4- CD8+ single-positive T
cells.
Survivin is expressed by highly proliferating cells and has previously
been implicated in cell-cycle progression. Yet, despite being a member
of the IAP family, its role in apoptosis is controversial. Both groups
set out to study the role of survivin in the control of proliferation
and apoptosis in T-cell development. Because survivin deficiency is
embryonic lethal, both groups used a conditional deletion strategy to
specifically knockout the gene encoding survivin in developing
thymocytes. Zheng Xing et al. generated two T-cell-specific
survivin-deficient mouse lines with the deletion occurring at
different developmental stages. Lck-survivin mice, in which survivin
deletion occurs by the DN3 stage, had defective thymocyte development
as a result of arrested cell proliferation. However, when survivin was
deleted later at the DN4 stage (CD4-survivin mice), the early stages
of thymocyte development were normal, but peripheral T cells were
immature and markedly reduced in numbers owing to problems with T-cell
homeostatic proliferation. Together, these observations indicate an
important role for survivin at early and late stages of T-cell
development.
Tak Mak and colleagues also found that thymocyte development was
blocked at the DN3 to DN4 transition in Lck-survivin mice. They
observed increased apoptosis but, in agreement with Xing et al.,
apoptosis to external stimuli proceeds normally in survivin-deficient
cells. In response to proliferative stimuli, the absence of survivin
triggered cell-cycle arrest, defective spindle formation and cell
death of proliferating thymocytes. Although loss of survivin induced
expression of pro-apoptotic p53, neither p53 loss nor overexpression
of anti-apoptotic Bcl-2 could restore the development of
survivin-deficient DN3 thymocytes, indicating that the protective
function of survivin is independent of p53 and Bcl-2. The authors also
observed severe defects in chromosomal segregation and cytokinesis in
survivin-deficient cells and suggest that the main role of survivin is
in controlling mitosis progression, and that cell death was secondary
to these defects.
Both papers highlight an important role for survivin in enabling
thymocytes to progress from the DN to DP phenotype and show that
survivin does not have a primary role in apoptosis. Further
experiments are required to understand how survivin-mediated T-cell
homeostasis is regulated.
Lucy Bird
References
Xing, Z. et al. Essential role of survivin, an inhibitor of apoptosis
protein, in T cell development, maturation, and homeostasis. J. Exp.
Med. 199, 69–80 (2004) | PubMed | --
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=PubMed&cmd=Retrieve&list_uids=14699085&dopt=Citation
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All psoriatics need to be survivin with less CD4+ and CD8+.
As the biologicals will either bind or block these pathways.
Congrats to these wonderful scientists in their quest to help
us knock back the Th1 skew.
Being clear on this will keep us clear in the future.
I feel we're getting so much closer to clear, now.