ON BEING A SINGLE MOTHER BY CHOICE
Vida Williams
being divorced, etc. The young woman who posted a request for advice was
eaten alive by this group for asking a legitimate question. In a society
where the divorce rate is at the 50% mark and more and more women are having
children are not married, how should family be defined and why should it
only be ok to have a child when in a relationship.
Now, I will qualify this response by saying that I did not plan to get
pregnant. In fact I was told I would not have children. So, I was Blessed,
and thank God everyday.
HOWEVER, I truly believe in the community family concept. I feel that if
two financially capable people consentually conceive and produce a child
that it is within the bounds of apporiateness. The concept of a nuclear
family (mom dad kids and dogs) was unique to this country and this century.
Family is extended and encompassing. A healthy child doesn't need just two
parents, they need a whole host of healthy and active people with whom they
can come for love and nurturing. I am sure we all know that it takes a
village to raise children.
Although I understand that many of you are holding a person accountable for
having a child, being parents yourselves.
But, I would challenge that you ask appropriate and intelligent questions
instead of flaming an alternative point of view. Most of the time you can
move people more by frank and honest dialogue that diatribes of loud and
rude behaviour.
Ryan Reed
Vida Williams wrote (amongst other things<snip>):
I have had the very fortuneate experience of being a mother by choice not by being divorced, etc. The young woman who posted a request for advice was eaten alive by this group for asking a legitimate question.
I'm assuming that you are referring to the woman who signatured her posts with the following:
Orangina
B.A., B.Crim, M.A.(in progress)
Ontario, CANADA
** forever single and independant **
My take on her situation is that she wanted someone to hold her
hand and say that it was OK to conceive a child and raise s/he on her own.
In re-reading only her posts, bypassing the "flames" this time, I would
have to say that she is not fit to pull off the parenting gig. To
me she seems a bit selfish, and wants to have a child to fulfill some need
she thinks she has. Problem with NG's is that your going to get opinions.
<snip> In a society where the divorce rate is at the 50% mark and more and more women are having children are not married, how should family be defined and why should it only be ok to have a child when in a relationship. .... The concept of a nuclear family (mom dad kids and dogs) was unique to this country and this century. Family is extended and encompassing. <snip>In my opinion having children outside of a relationship only perpetuates the problem. I would have to disagree with the statement that the family structure is unique to this country & has only been around for a 100 years. Sorry don't buy it. I have photos of family from damn near 100 years ago and written history that dates back to early 1700's, bet a couple others in here can say same.
<snip> A healthy child doesn't need just two parents, they need a whole host of healthy and active people with whom they can come for love and nurturing. I am sure we all know that it takes a village to raise children. <snip>Sorry folks, saw it coming. Take a look at the person responsible for that statement, Hillary Clinton. (qualification i'm a democrat). This is a bunch of horsesh**. Take a real close look at the village surrounding Ms. Roddam-Clinton and consider the source. If you're looking for a village to raise your kid jump in a time machine and go back to the Hunter & Gather society. It takes YOU, nobody else but YOU, alooone (boop boop be do). Now if you have a good support base around you and can rely on individuals for help, then all the better. But I am sick and tired of everyone shirking their responsibility of raising their own children, and taking the "village approach". I have had enough the "village" (read government) telling me what is good and bad for me and my child. I work, take care of my child, and pay taxes to keep the roads maintained. Leave the rest of the village to do the same. Now if you ask be to baby-sit for ya while you go out or run errands, no problem ..pick me up a gallon of milk while your out and watch Ashlee for me next tuesday. :-) But do not use my tax money to help raise Jane Doe's 5 kids while she has been on welfare for a decade. (sorry for the rant)
<snip> But, I would challenge that you ask appropriate and intelligent questions instead of flaming an alternative point of view. Most of the time you can move people more by frank and honest dialogue that diatribes of loud and rude behaviour. <snip>But the diatribes are much more fun and allow people to vent. I have no problem dealing with opposing points of view. The are what make your opinion change or stronger depending on the situation. You must consider that everyone here in our little world is a bit jaded in some way, shape, or form for whatever reason. Don't come here to be coddled, come here to aire an opinion had have a group respond. Don't come here saying it takes a village. My parents raised me, I will raise my daughter, and maybe I just might ask you to carpool to school. That's not a village approach, that is just being a good parent.
of course that's just my opinion....I could be wrong. d. miller
ryan
Ashlee's Dad
Nicol
Kse63
>Ryan wrote about the 'village' in "it takes a village to raise a child" =
>to mean government, tax dollars, etc.
>
>See, I have a different take on who these 'villagers' are. I take it to =
>mean neighbors, communities, etc... Not from a $$ perspective, but just =
>a general consideration for other people's children. Example: when I =
>was a child and did something a block away from home that was bad, =
>neighbors would either call my parents so that when I got home I was =
>held accountable for my actions that they would not have known about =
>otherwise, or the neighbor dealt with me him or herself and called my =
>parents afterward to let them know. I learned eventually that no matter =
>where I was, or whether or not my parents were around, I needed to =
>behave because there was no telling if there was someone around who =
>would call my mom and dad. That was a village.
>
>Now, what I see is people ignoring others children when they know that =
>what they are doing is bad for them or could cause them serious danger. =
>Neighbors don't really know each other, except perhaps for those right =
>next to each other. And kids away from mom and dad can act any which =
>way they want to because no other adult is going to step in to tell them =
>to stop or going to call their parents. Mom and dad take responsibility =
>for their children, but other adults are completely apathetic.
>
>Nicol
>
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><DIV><FONT COLOR="#000000" SIZE=3>Ryan wrote about the 'village' in =
>"it takes=20
>a village to raise a child" to mean government, tax dollars,=20
>etc.</DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV>See, I have a different take on who =
>these=20
>'villagers' are. I take it to mean neighbors, communities, =
>etc... =20
>Not from a $$ perspective, but just a general consideration for other =
>people's=20
>children. Example: when I was a child and did something a =
>block away=20
>from home that was bad, neighbors would either call my parents so that =
>when I=20
>got home I was held accountable for my actions that they would not have =
>known=20
>about otherwise, or the neighbor dealt with me him or herself and called =
>my=20
>parents afterward to let them know. I learned eventually that no =
>matter=20
>where I was, or whether or not my parents were around, I needed to =
>behave=20
>because there was no telling if there was someone around who would call =
>my mom=20
>and dad. That was a village.</DIV>
><DIV> </DIV>
><DIV>Now, what I see is people ignoring others children =
>when they=20
>know that what they are doing is bad for them or could cause them =
>serious=20
>danger. Neighbors don't really know each other, except perhaps for =
>those=20
>right next to each other. And kids away from mom and dad can act =
>any which=20
>way they want to because no other adult is going to step in to tell them =
>to stop=20
>or going to call their parents. Mom and dad take responsibility =
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>children, but other adults are completely apathetic.
I agree 100%. I also believe that "the village" isn't government money or
influence. To me, it means taking that child at school who may not get any
attention at home and sitting with him/her while he/she reads a story to you.
It may just listening to them tell you about something exciting that happened
to them, or, as you say, it may be keeping a watchful eye out for other
people's kids.
In our neighborhood, there is a lot of everyone keeping an eye out. We all know
when someone is home and when they're not, we know when babysitters are on duty
and when parents are gone. We are all always watching to make sure nobody goes
out in the street without looking.
I love this neighborhood, and the entire community. This spirit reigns
throughout this town and it's great. These people even bake at Christmas and
give to the neighbors. It took a lot of getting used to - living here. I was
used to a neighborhood where nobody "visited". Here, there is always at least
one group of folks out after dinner (and before).
I agree that THAT is a village!!
K
"Never above you. Never below you. Always beside you."
---Walter Winchell
Ryan Reed
Nicol & K. posted some wonderful thoughts:
I agree with both of you, but I don't consider that being a village. To me that is just good parenting. I too was raised in an environment where you got Kool-aid at Timmy's, Terri's mom always had Popcicels in the freezer, & my mom makes the best cookies. This to me is just doing what parents should do. I once got caught doing something that I shouldn't three blocks from home. I peddled my ass off to get home before the mom network could work its magic. What a waste of time that was. Out on the front porch to greet me was 110 lb. of pissed off mom. Not a village just parents being parents. We didn't use sitters we were watched by the other mothers. Yes, ok that's sitting but, it wasn't like there was a teenager that we could take advantage of. *ha* This whole village thing is just a spinmister's way letting the government get control over raising children.
The neighbor network, in some places is a thing of the past. To me that is sad. But it's not a village, it is just being human. Hillary can put what ever spin she wants on it, but if she can't even protect the young impressionable school girls in her village, I sure don't want her to help raise mine.
but that's just my opinion .... I could be wrong d. miller
ryan
Ashlee's Dad
Nicol
Vida Williams
one who thinks that way.
Vida
Nicol wrote in message <#Nu9VuS19GA.285@upnetnews03>...
Ryan wrote about the 'village' in "it takes a village to raise a child"
to mean government, tax dollars, etc.
See, I have a different take on who these 'villagers' are. I take it to
mean neighbors, communities, etc... Not from a $$ perspective, but just a
general consideration for other people's children. Example: when I was a
child and did something a block away from home that was bad, neighbors would
either call my parents so that when I got home I was held accountable for my
actions that they would not have known about otherwise, or the neighbor
dealt with me him or herself and called my parents afterward to let them
know. I learned eventually that no matter where I was, or whether or not my
parents were around, I needed to behave because there was no telling if
there was someone around who would call my mom and dad. That was a village.
Now, what I see is people ignoring others children when they know that
what they are doing is bad for them or could cause them serious danger.
Neighbors don't really know each other, except perhaps for those right next
to each other. And kids away from mom and dad can act any which way they
want to because no other adult is going to step in to tell them to stop or
going to call their parents. Mom and dad take responsibility for their
Nicol
>I have had the very fortuneate experience of being a mother by choice not
by
>being divorced, etc. The young woman who posted a request for advice was
>where the divorce rate is at the 50% mark and more and more women are
having
>children are not married, how should family be defined and why should it
>only be ok to have a child when in a relationship.
I think it is ideal to have a child in a marriage. As single parents, it is
hard sometimes not to feel like you are being spread really thin, and two
involved parents help each other out so that hopefully neither will feel
that way. The reality may be different, but that is the hope. I've never
experienced the nuclear family (as an adult) as I was never married to my
son's dad, but I do have some relief as his father is in his life (although,
I don't know if it really is relief or not...sometimes I feel like it is
more trouble than it's worth, but that is stress talking) and I have my
family who are involved in my son's day to day life.
I do get bothered now and then when single parent *families* are referred to
as broken homes or non-families, or the children of unmarried parents are
referred to as 'illigetimate' or as 'bastards'. It is now normal (whether
good or not) for a child to be from divorced parents...the traditional
nuclear family is lost.
>Now, I will qualify this response by saying that I did not plan to get
>pregnant. In fact I was told I would not have children. So, I was
Blessed,
>and thank God everyday.
Okay...so you are a single mum by choice because you chose not to marry the
father of your child, but your child was unexpected? I guess with that
definition of spbc, I am one as well. I always defined it as single women
(mostly) who made efforts to get pregnant usually through artificial
insemination.
>HOWEVER, I truly believe in the community family concept. I feel that if
>two financially capable people consentually conceive and produce a child
>that it is within the bounds of apporiateness. The concept of a nuclear
>family (mom dad kids and dogs) was unique to this country and this century.
>Family is extended and encompassing. A healthy child doesn't need just two
>parents, they need a whole host of healthy and active people with whom they
>can come for love and nurturing. I am sure we all know that it takes a
>village to raise children.
I'll agree with extended family situations. I have this fascination with
the Amish; like in many other countries, and in past centuries, they live
the extended family concept with several generations living under the same
roof or very nearby. I agree that that is a wonderful atmosphere for
children. I live with my family...my parents, my brother, my son and my
grandmother. Everyone contributes to the household and although I am my
son's mom in every way, he knows that if I'm not here he always has someone
to come to. He also gets a chance to form really close bonds with his
great-grandmother and my parents and brother that he may not have if only
visiting with them once a month or so. I live here out of financial
necessity, but the benefits for my son (and for me, to be fair) go well
beyond having a nice roof over his head in a good neighborhood.
>Although I understand that many of you are holding a person accountable for
>having a child, being parents yourselves.
>But, I would challenge that you ask appropriate and intelligent questions
>instead of flaming an alternative point of view. Most of the time you can
>move people more by frank and honest dialogue that diatribes of loud and
>rude behaviour.
Yes, but when someone throws a question out there, they are bound to get
responses that sometimes or many times disagrees with their position, or may
even insult the person. May not be nice, may not change a person's life,
and may just make a person feel worse than they already do, but it is the
reality of any public, non-moderated forum. And most of the time, you'll
get at least one or two posts that actually address your question rather
than insult you or wake you up when you've been dreaming. Got to have thick
skin if you are going to post about your life on here. With freedom of
speech comes inevitable drawbacks...but we just have to live with it and get
on with ourselves.
Nicol
Karin Dietterich
Nicol <stages...@email.msn.com> wrote:
>Ryan wrote about the 'village' in "it takes a village to raise a child"
>to mean government, tax dollars, etc.
>See, I have a different take on who these 'villagers' are. I take it to
>mean neighbors, communities, etc... Not from a $$ perspective, but just
>a general consideration for other people's children. Example: when I
>was a child and did something a block away from home that was bad,
>neighbors would either call my parents so that when I got home I was
>held accountable for my actions that they would not have known about
>otherwise, or the neighbor dealt with me him or herself and called my
>parents afterward to let them know. I learned eventually that no matter
>where I was, or whether or not my parents were around, I needed to
>behave because there was no telling if there was someone around who
>would call my mom and dad. That was a village.
That is the village that I remember. I have learned about a different,
and wonderful, village since the death of my son's father. It is a village
composed of friends, family, co-workers, and church members. They have
been there every step of the way for me. As my mother prepares to leave
the country for a year in Spain, I am finding more and more people willing
to step in and help in ways that I have relied on her to help.
A group of retired gentlemen is coming over to clean up my flower beds.
Folks have pitched in to help move David's belongings out of his dad's
house. People have offered to take David for an evening or a night so I
can have some time for myself. All I have to do is ask, and the village
is there to help.
It's a pretty wonderful thing.
Asking for help is the hard part. Knowing that people feel good about
being able to help makes asking easier.
Karin, Mom to David (8/31/85)
--
Karin Dietterich k...@teleport.com
I love deadlines. I especially like the whooshing
sound they make as they go flying by.
Vida Williams
so much because its the "NORM" or not but because it implies that well
rounded, respectful children can not be raised with in anything other than a
nuclear family. That is the premise I reject. My mother and father split
when I was 13 and my siblings were 8 and 9. All three of my mother's
children are college educated..Duke, UNC-CH, FSU. She has done a wonderful
job raising us to be independent and respectful and self assured. She had
the double stress of being white and raising interracial children. So,
enough of my soap box, I hate that damn "broken" label. We are not broken
nor dysfunctional.
*laugh* Wow, that was impassioned wasn't it. *smile
janelaw
Vida,
I am married now. I am just visiting from asstep-p. I was a
single parent for nine years.
The whole "broken home" thing used to torture me. I worried so
much that I was not providing my child with the nuclear family
she needed to develop into a healthy adult. My friends, family,
and neighbors have all helped me parent her.
She is 11 yo now. The other day she burst in the door after
school to tell me that she is running for school president. She
was so happy, confident, and excited. I would never have
dreamed of running for office in elementary school. When I
looked up and saw the "independent and respectful and self
assured" person who is my child, I realized that in spite of all
our failings and mistakes, single parents can do a damned fine
job of raising children.
Cici in Texas
Yeah, well, I have no hesitation in saying that my home is
broken. The patio door is broken, the garage door opener is
broken, the ice maker is broken, the copier in my home
office is broken, the pickup truck is broken, the air
conditioner is broken (in the middle of a major heat wave,
no less) . . . yep, it's a broken home, all right. But the
PEOPLE are fine!
Cici in Texas
(Remove xspam from address to reply)
Kse63
>Yeah, well, I have no hesitation in saying that my home is
>broken. The patio door is broken, the garage door opener is
>broken, the ice maker is broken, the copier in my home
>office is broken, the pickup truck is broken, the air
>conditioner is broken (in the middle of a major heat wave,
>no less) . . . yep, it's a broken home, all right. But the
>PEOPLE are fine!
Here, it's the top of the garage door thingie that is coming "unattached", the
lawn mower, the trim on the house, the missing screens (that I've been asking
to have replaced for 3 years now), the hose connect in the garage (yes, I said
garage - STUPIDist place for a hose connect I've EVER seen). The people here
are also quite fine, however!!
Char
Kse63 wrote:
Nothing broken here. I live in an apt. I call maintenance. :-)
Cici in Texas
>
>
>Kse63 wrote:
>
>> Cici Wrote:
>>
>> >Yeah, well, I have no hesitation in saying that my home is
>> >broken. The patio door is broken, the garage door opener is
>> >broken, the ice maker is broken, the copier in my home
>> >office is broken, the pickup truck is broken, the air
>> >conditioner is broken (in the middle of a major heat wave,
>> >no less) . . . yep, it's a broken home, all right. But the
>> >PEOPLE are fine!
>>
>> Here, it's the top of the garage door thingie that is coming "unattached", the
>> lawn mower, the trim on the house, the missing screens (that I've been asking
>> to have replaced for 3 years now), the hose connect in the garage (yes, I said
>> garage - STUPIDist place for a hose connect I've EVER seen). The people here
>> are also quite fine, however!!
>>
>> K
>Nothing broken here. I live in an apt. I call maintenance. :-)
Well, I'd call my landlady, except that she's my mother.