Ok, what is with this 'touch' thing? I hear it talked about in ASF, ASS, AR, and all KINDS of other places! To me, touching someone is SOOOOO invasive! Is it really not that big of a problem or anything? Does it -really- help?
>Ok, what is with this 'touch' thing? I hear it talked about in ASF, ASS, AR, >and all KINDS of other places! To me, touching someone is SOOOOO invasive! >Is it really not that big of a problem or anything? Does it -really- help?
Just keep your hands off me and we'll all be fine. :)
Seriously, to me touching is *very* invasive. If you're not in a serious relationship with me, don't even think about it. :) But - this would depend a lot on the individual (and I guess it's only natural to expect a shy, introverted person like me not to be very comfortable with it) as well as the general standards of behaviour wherever it is that you live. Here, you give people lots of space, and don't go around randomly hugging and kissing them :), however I'm under the impression that especially the Americans tend to be quite touchy-feely (well, compared to what this place is like anyway :).
I'm sure you'll receive lots of advice here on how to do it (the touching thing), but I'd say be careful when you do try it - it's probably quite easy to come across as a creep when you're not used to doing it... And, mind you, different people have different needs with regards to their personal 'space', and what's okay for one person may well be considered rude and intrusive by another.
---- Overanalyzing can be fun when applied in reasonable dosages.
>>Ok, what is with this 'touch' thing? I hear it talked about in ASF, ASS, AR, >>and all KINDS of other places! To me, touching someone is SOOOOO invasive! >>Is it really not that big of a problem or anything? Does it -really- help? > however I'm under the impression that especially the Americans tend to be quite > touchy-feely (well, compared to what this place is like anyway :).
Actually, Americans give each other lots of space. Not very touchy feely here.
I used to be very particular about touch. I hated if anyone touched me and felt very violated. Now I can't get enough of it. I love hugs and such other forms of affection.
There's plenty of techniques on using touch to get closer to MOTAS, found in the seduction web sites that we all either love or hate. If you do read up on that info alot, you'll find that you *probably* won't screw up and touch anyone who's offended by it because you'll have already picked up signs if the person you are with is open to that or not (arms always crossed, leaning away from you, etc...).
I have the easy way out, I have my beloved kissing sign. It's worked wonders in helping me learn how to read people and approaching people with affectionate touch, etc. I'm sorry I keep mentioning it, but it's helped me learn way more than I ever imagined.
chris berdoz <cber...@mediaone.net> wrote: > I have the easy way out, I have my beloved kissing sign. It's worked > wonders in helping me learn how to read people and approaching people with > affectionate touch, etc. I'm sorry I keep mentioning it, but it's helped me > learn way more than I ever imagined.
Not all of us are willing to trade our dignity for success.
"Joel" <molecu...@yahoo.com> wrote in message <news:9tbohf$g1q$1@geraldo.cc.utexas.edu>... > Ok, what is with this 'touch' thing? I hear it talked about in ASF, ASS, AR, > and all KINDS of other places! To me, touching someone is SOOOOO invasive! > Is it really not that big of a problem or anything? Does it -really- help?
YES. Kino (as us ASFers refer to casual touch) is essentail. I've had PUs where I didn't really do anything except kino. Its light casual touch. WOmen do it with each other all the time. Watch how they do it, and emulate. Kino can make the difference between a girlfirend and LJBF. If you can't touch her how are you going to fuck her?
Examples of light kino - touching her on the arm when one of you says something funny or relevant, hand on back when walking somewhere with her, giving a playful push when she says something mean, etc. Start here, and see if she reciprocates (starts touching you). From there you move up to holding her hand, touching her hair or face, giving a back rub. Try not to be crude about it - there's miles of difference between kino and groping.
>Actually, Americans give each other lots of space. Not very touchy feely >here.
Well, then you can imagine how much we shy away from any intimacy, if we consider Americans touchy-feely... :)
No, of course I know that there are many other peoples/cultures that are a lot more 'touchy-feely' (at the lack of a better term :), but it's all relative. :) Here, even hugging can be pretty rare (even among family members).
---- Overanalyzing can be fun when applied in reasonable dosages.
> > Ok, what is with this 'touch' thing? I hear it talked about in ASF, ASS, AR, > > and all KINDS of other places! To me, touching someone is SOOOOO invasive! > > Is it really not that big of a problem or anything? Does it -really- help?
> YES. Kino (as us ASFers refer to casual touch) is essentail. I've > had PUs where I didn't really do anything except kino. Its light > casual touch. WOmen do it with each other all the time. Watch how > they do it, and emulate. Kino can make the difference between a > girlfirend and LJBF. If you can't touch her how are you going to fuck > her?
What the [censored] is a PU? :)
> Examples of light kino - touching her on the arm when one of you says > something funny or relevant, hand on back when walking somewhere with > her, giving a playful push when she says something mean, etc. Start > here, and see if she reciprocates (starts touching you). From there > you move up to holding her hand, touching her hair or face, giving a > back rub. Try not to be crude about it - there's miles of difference > between kino and groping.
Yeah, and that's my problem. I view all forms of touching to be groping. Where's the line?
> chris berdoz <cber...@mediaone.net> wrote: > > I have the easy way out, I have my beloved kissing sign. It's worked > > wonders in helping me learn how to read people and approaching people with > > affectionate touch, etc. I'm sorry I keep mentioning it, but it's helped > > me learn way more than I ever imagined. > Not all of us are willing to trade our dignity for success.
Too bad. Let me ask you this, though. Right now, I am more confident than I've ever been in my life. I am actually getting close, not just physically, but emotionally close, to about ten times more women than I've ever had in my life. Right now I am the most proud of myself as I've ever been, ever. And I still hold onto my morals and am still as gentlemanly as I've been, actually way more so now, because I've been *learning* how to treat women with respect and truly admire them as humans. What started off as a cheap thrill ended up as a valuable learning experience and a true change in my personality. People have reacted to me so strongly that now I do the kissing sign moreso to make others happy as well as myself. I've found that sharing affection and love is addictive and that "everyone needs a hug" (I say that to everyone). Making others happy feels great. Most importantly, I've been coming out of my shyness shell very quickly. So finally, do you really think this is a matter of "dignity"?
I found a strength and I exploited it to meet people You're probably one of the wittiest posters on this ng, I think that you could draw on that strength to help yourself with your battles in shyness.
On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 06:18:07 GMT, cber...@mediaone.net (chris berdoz) wrote:
> Actually, Americans give each other lots of space. Not very touchy > feely here.
Some years ago I read some article somewhere about how much people of various nationalities touch each other. What they did was secretly watch people during the course of a meal in a restaurant to see how often they made physical contact with each other. They found that people in Spain or Italy or one of those Mediterranean-type countries touched each other on average 150 times or something during the course of the meal. In America, people tended to touch each other twice - once when they met, and once when they parted. It wasn't the worst though - I think in Japan they never touched each other at all.
> > YES. Kino (as us ASFers refer to casual touch) is essentail. I've > > had PUs where I didn't really do anything except kino. Its light > > casual touch. WOmen do it with each other all the time. Watch how > > they do it, and emulate. Kino can make the difference between a > > girlfirend and LJBF. If you can't touch her how are you going to fuck > > her?
I sometimes forget and use a term from alt.seduction.fast. Sorry about any confusion.
> > Examples of light kino - touching her on the arm when one of you says > > something funny or relevant, hand on back when walking somewhere with > > her, giving a playful push when she says something mean, etc. Start > > here, and see if she reciprocates (starts touching you). From there > > you move up to holding her hand, touching her hair or face, giving a > > back rub. Try not to be crude about it - there's miles of difference > > between kino and groping.
> Yeah, and that's my problem. I view all forms of touching to be groping. > Where's the line?
In general, the arms and back are pretty safe places to start. All the things I mentioned above are touch. Grabbing her tits or ass is a grope.
chris berdoz <cber...@mediaone.net> wrote: > I found a strength and I exploited it to meet people You're probably one of > the wittiest posters on this ng, I think that you could draw on that > strength to help yourself with your battles in shyness.
The problem is, once it's on, it's ok, but it's hard to get going. If I can get a conversation going for awhile, I can sometimes get it going, but often I let it die because of awkwardness, or real or imagined disinterest on the part of the person I am talking to. I've noticed for example, how sometimes if you push conversation too far, people will clam up. Or sometimes, I just feel like I need to just get out of there before things get awkward.
BTW, I didn't mean that as a slam on you or anything, I'm glad things are working for you. You finally took drastic measures, and that took guts, and it worked. I just think alot of us are here for different reasons and require different solutions. Not all of us can wear a sign around our neck to fix all our problems, or we would all do it.
> > I found a strength and I exploited it to meet people You're probably one > of > > the wittiest posters on this ng, I think that you could draw on that > > strength to help yourself with your battles in shyness.
> The problem is, once it's on, it's ok, but it's hard to get going. If I can > get a conversation going for awhile, I can sometimes get it going, but often > I let it die because of awkwardness, or real or imagined disinterest on the > part of the person I am talking to. I've noticed for example, how sometimes > if you push conversation too far, people will clam up. Or sometimes, I just > feel like I need to just get out of there before things get awkward.
> BTW, I didn't mean that as a slam on you or anything, I'm glad things are > working for you. You finally took drastic measures, and that took guts, and > it worked. I just think alot of us are here for different reasons and > require different solutions. Not all of us can wear a sign around our neck > to fix all our problems, or we would all do it.
*blinks several times*
OMG! I've been trying to figure out why this sign thing was sounding familiar.... I think I read about you -somewhere- online... like one of the online comics or something.... you're FAMOUS dude!
And I'm jealous. A sign. That's somethin' -I'd- do, just ta be weird. Grrr. Hehehehee. (Read Megatokyo?)
> OMG! I've been trying to figure out why this sign thing was sounding > familiar.... I think I read about you -somewhere- online... like one of the > online comics or something.... you're FAMOUS dude!
WHAT?? Where?? Someone interviewed me for some magazine or something. But I'm not aware of me being mentioned near online comics. I love online comics. In fact, I found out that the very first person who kissed me because of the kissing sign was an online comics artist. I didn't find this out until she became an actual 'guest of honor' at another con (!!) and she approached me about it. But i didn't see any mention of me on her site. I don't see why she would anyway.
> And I'm jealous. A sign. That's somethin' -I'd- do, just ta be weird. Grrr. > Hehehehee. (Read Megatokyo?)
Yeah, i was at Otakon at the megatokyo panel, and I had the sign on. Not only that, but someone there actually recognized me because of the sign. He shook my hand and said he'd heard about me.
> > OMG! I've been trying to figure out why this sign thing was sounding > > familiar.... I think I read about you -somewhere- online... like one of > the > > online comics or something.... you're FAMOUS dude!
> WHAT?? Where?? Someone interviewed me for some magazine or something. But > I'm not aware of me being mentioned near online comics. I love online > comics. In fact, I found out that the very first person who kissed me > because of the kissing sign was an online comics artist. I didn't find this > out until she became an actual 'guest of honor' at another con (!!) and she > approached me about it. But i didn't see any mention of me on her site. I > don't see why she would anyway.
> > And I'm jealous. A sign. That's somethin' -I'd- do, just ta be weird. > Grrr. > > Hehehehee. (Read Megatokyo?)
> Yeah, i was at Otakon at the megatokyo panel, and I had the sign on. Not > only that, but someone there actually recognized me because of the sign. He > shook my hand and said he'd heard about me.
> CVB
I do not for the -life- of me remember where I read about you. It -coulda- been a magazine, but I don't read many of those at all.
> Seriously, to me touching is *very* invasive. If you're not in a serious > relationship with me, don't even think about it. :) But - this would depend a > lot on the individual (and I guess it's only natural to expect a shy, > introverted person like me not to be very comfortable with it) as well as the > general standards of behaviour wherever it is that you live. Here, you give > people lots of space, and don't go around randomly hugging and kissing them :), > however I'm under the impression that especially the Americans tend to be quite > touchy-feely (well, compared to what this place is like anyway :).
> I'm sure you'll receive lots of advice here on how to do it (the touching > thing), but I'd say be careful when you do try it - it's probably quite easy to > come across as a creep when you're not used to doing it... And, mind you, > different people have different needs with regards to their personal 'space', > and what's okay for one person may well be considered rude and intrusive by > another.
no, if you act too far from average then you are a "creep". so if you do touch a lot you, are not going to be "creep" ... even if you happen to really be a creep.
make sense? :>
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> > Not all of us are willing to trade our dignity for success.
> So what _are_ you willing to trade for success?
too open a question
> And what does your > dignity do for your happiness? (this is a serious question)
well this is an interesting question because ... assume I adopted reprehensible behavior... then in hindsight I might be able to "forgive and forget" my months of disgusting behavior while I learned something .. something I have yet to see as existing...
but it bothers me enough now, I doubt I could ignore my unease. enough to perform the acts competently enough.
I thin I am probably going to have more interactions with women... enough until I become so disgusted with them, I'll feel they deserve being messed around with AND I my personality will have to have transformed into a revenge oriented personality... ... those are the changes I see necessary before I can see myself carrying through with this act.
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> In general, the arms and back are pretty safe places to start. All > the things I mentioned above are touch. Grabbing her tits or ass is a > grope.
try to imagine you are jabbing her teasing her after you have told a teasing sort of joke.
then give her forearm an affectionate whack.
but don't pretend you would do this to a guy, because I doubt you would.
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