New
Hunte...@hotmail.com
espress myself to people that I don't know. But I feel that I am at a
impasse, and I am searching for answers. To where ever I can find them.
I can't afford a therapist. I am thinking that talking to some peers. I
may get some answers, that I am searching for. To all that read this,
it may be a bit long. Thank You for you time, and any helpful advice
would be appreciated.
I am 38 years old. I am prior service, I served during Panama, and
Desert Storm(Shield). I have seen a little action. But I still to this
day, can't fathom, why women scare me to death. I would rather stare
down the barrel of a rifle, than approach a woman, and get rejected. I
know that I am not George Clooney, but I am not a Nosferatu either.
Today was really troubling. I was out with a friend today, and he was
approached by a woman, who wanted to sell him some nail care stuff at
the mall. When I approached, I was the butt of a joke, that made me
feel really small. I had to walk away from that. And when I returned
she had given his her phone number. Now what I don't understand about
that is, I can reasonlly be sure, he will never call this woman. I have
known for a while, now that I have low self esteem. And trying to
remedy this, the comment sent away flying with anger. And a fit of
jealously towards my best friend. For that I know, that he did nothing
to provoke this attitude.
He is a very dear friend, one of the few people in this world that I
would literally die for. But this isn't the only time that this has
happened. I don't know why I am so jealous of him. Let me rephrase
that. I don't know why I should be jealous. I can't lie to myself. I
know why, it seems that everything that he doesn't, no matter what.
Turns to gold. When a problem comes his way, no matter how badly it
seems to be. It turns out smelling like roses. Recently, where I was
working there was a woman, that I was totally intrested in. It was ever
so clear to everyone, that I was intrested in her. Kindness, attention,
candy, roses. If I could give it, it was hers. I got my friend a job,
at this establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my
phone number on multiple occasions. Never to recieve a call.
No more than a week after he is there, they are spending time together.
No matter what he says, that he is not intrested in her. That again
made me very angry. Why should I be angry at him for this? I will also
answer this. Because he says that he is not intrested. And he has the
means of having the woman, that I felt for. To which, I was not even a
throught of again. I am very angry about myself now, for feeling this
way, about a man, who didn't ask for this. I know this is all my
faught. I am being a childish little brat, when a kid took my toy on
the playground. Which is a bit more serious than that now. But that is
how I feel. I am not a religious man. But I was told by someone, a
while back. Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to
suffer. So that everyone else can see the problems of the ones
suffering. And know that is not what they want. Everything happens for
a reason. And if everything happens for a reason, doesn't that mean our
lives or pre-determined. And if it is pre-determined we have no control
over this. For our path is allready written. Now what I have dream that
this isn't true. And I can find my way out of this rutt. And hope to
try and rewrite my path. If that is possible.
Thank everyone here, that reads this for reading my complaints, and be
as gentle as possible, when I ribbings start coming. For example. Stop
whining, and get over you self pity. This is what I am expecting, but
hoping for more. Thanks again.
Bluebeard
<Hunte...@hotmail.com> wrote in message
news:1166698445.2...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com...
>I am new to this type of confession. I have not really been one to
> espress myself to people that I don't know.
Hi and welcome!
But I feel that I am at a
> impasse, and I am searching for answers.
I could be sarky and say 'well you won't find 'em here' on usenet, but in
fact my experience here has been encouraging. I'm new too and there are some
posters here with real wisdom who have helped me.
To where ever I can find them.
> I can't afford a therapist. I am thinking that talking to some peers. I
> may get some answers, that I am searching for. To all that read this,
> it may be a bit long. Thank You for you time, and any helpful advice
> would be appreciated.
Looking at your text, it doesn't look that long for an introduction...
> I am 38 years old. I am prior service, I served during Panama, and
> Desert Storm(Shield). I have seen a little action. But I still to this
> day, can't fathom, why women scare me to death. I would rather stare
> down the barrel of a rifle, than approach a woman, and get rejected.
Physical courage and emotional courage are two different things. The first
involves looking out for the safety of your body (which is important
enough). But if you don't have enough of the second, your very deepest self
and sense of personal value is at risk.
I
> know that I am not George Clooney, but I am not a Nosferatu either.
> Today was really troubling. I was out with a friend today, and he was
> approached by a woman, who wanted to sell him some nail care stuff at
> the mall. When I approached, I was the butt of a joke, that made me
> feel really small. I had to walk away from that. And when I returned
> she had given his her phone number.
Good grief, these 'women' have so much power over our self-esteem, don't
they? Particularly when we already have very little of it to spare...
Now what I don't understand about
> that is, I can reasonlly be sure, he will never call this woman. I have
> known for a while, now that I have low self esteem. And trying to
> remedy this, the comment sent away flying with anger. And a fit of
> jealously towards my best friend. For that I know, that he did nothing
> to provoke this attitude.
You vented. Better than bottling it up.
> He is a very dear friend, one of the few people in this world that I
> would literally die for. But this isn't the only time that this has
> happened. I don't know why I am so jealous of him. Let me rephrase
> that. I don't know why I should be jealous. I can't lie to myself. I
> know why, it seems that everything that he doesn't, no matter what.
> Turns to gold. When a problem comes his way, no matter how badly it
> seems to be. It turns out smelling like roses. Recently, where I was
> working there was a woman, that I was totally intrested in. It was ever
> so clear to everyone, that I was intrested in her. Kindness, attention,
> candy, roses. If I could give it, it was hers.
Here's one thing I have learned from the derided 'pick-up artists': in
general, neediness in a man is a turn-off for women.
I got my friend a job,
> at this establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my
> phone number on multiple occasions. Never to recieve a call.
Well at least you had the guts to do that. Many of us here wouldn't have...
Well done.
> No more than a week after he is there, they are spending time together.
> No matter what he says, that he is not intrested in her.
He sounds a real 'player'. The less the interest he shows (whilst remaining
debonair and funny of course) the more she'll want him.
That again
> made me very angry. Why should I be angry at him for this? I will also
> answer this. Because he says that he is not intrested. And he has the
> means of having the woman, that I felt for. To which, I was not even a
> throught of again. I am very angry about myself now, for feeling this
> way, about a man, who didn't ask for this. I know this is all my
> faught. I am being a childish little brat, when a kid took my toy on
> the playground. Which is a bit more serious than that now. But that is
> how I feel. I am not a religious man. But I was told by someone, a
> while back. Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to
> suffer.
...only so long as you accept that. If some of us are meant to suffer,
then we haven't yet learned a lesson out there somewhere that will enable
us to succeed. So once you learn this lesson, you'll become one of those
meant to succeed. Believe me, you are NOT fated to forever fail. I speak
from personal experience.
So that everyone else can see the problems of the ones
> suffering. And know that is not what they want. Everything happens for
> a reason. And if everything happens for a reason, doesn't that mean our
> lives or pre-determined. And if it is pre-determined we have no control
> over this. For our path is allready written.
With respect, this is bullshit. Problems are like error messages on your
computer. They occur when something is not working right. If we can fix the
way things are working, the problems and error messages disappear.
Now what I have dream that
> this isn't true. And I can find my way out of this rutt. And hope to
> try and rewrite my path. If that is possible.
Good. That's a much better approach. You can find your way out. It won't
necessarily be easy, but it _is_ possible.
> Thank everyone here, that reads this for reading my complaints, and be
> as gentle as possible, when I ribbings start coming. For example. Stop
> whining, and get over you self pity. This is what I am expecting, but
> hoping for more. Thanks again.
>
Why knock someone down who's already feeling down? People who do this are
always powerless themselves and can only feel better by attack those they
perceive as even less powerless.
As I said, welcome. Look forward to hearing more from you.
Bluebeard
Slurk
Hi, welcome to the group. I suspect you will probably be a one time
poster, possible troll/puppet- but hope to hear more from you.
BTW, is english your first language? Are you possibly related to DIRT?
CLFan
Hunte...@hotmail.com wrote:
> Thank everyone here, that reads this for reading my complaints, and be
> as gentle as possible, when I ribbings start coming. For example. Stop
> whining, and get over you self pity. This is what I am expecting, but
> hoping for more. Thanks again.
Women are a lot like loans and credit cards: the less you need one, the
easier it is to get one. Ask yourself why you want success with women?
Do you want a relationship for the sake of the relationship itself? Or
do you simply want what your friend has? If the latter, it might be a
good idea to try to focus your attention on other things for a while.
Jealousy is often groundless - you probably have enviable qualities and
experiences that your friend doesn't have.
Hunte...@hotmail.com
I am sorry to say, that I will not be a one time poster. I am really
serious, when I say that I am looking for some kind of answers. If not
answers, but a means to discuss what seems to be a subject in this
group. Yes English is my first language. If I may, why do you ask? And
no I am not related to DIRT. I will be the first to say that my
punctuation isn't the greatest. I also am not proud of this. Thanks for
responding.
Hunte...@hotmail.com
One of the things that I am looking for. Is not just a relationship,
but a companion, a friend, a lover, someone that I can spend my life
with. Possibly the mother of our children. To me it is hard to see
women as things like credit cards. I understand the analogy. My friend
has expressed to me, that he looks to me for rational advice. When he
has something to talk about, and it is serious, I am the one that he
talks to. He also calls me his moral advisior. Advisior isn't the word.
I am honest and truthful, and will give the answer under the
understanding that it may not be what he wants to hear. I guess he
respects me more than anything. I don't think it is envious.
William P
news:1166698445.2...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com:
That's exactly what you want to avoid doing. It scares people. You have
to start casual and build to that stuff after you're already in a
relationship.
> I got my friend a job,
> at this establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my
> phone number on multiple occasions.
Don't give someone your phone number on multiple occasions.
> Never to recieve a call.
> No more than a week after he is there, they are spending time together.
> No matter what he says, that he is not intrested in her. That again
> made me very angry. Why should I be angry at him for this? I will also
> answer this. Because he says that he is not intrested. And he has the
> means of having the woman, that I felt for. To which, I was not even a
> throught of again. I am very angry about myself now, for feeling this
> way, about a man, who didn't ask for this. I know this is all my
> faught. I am being a childish little brat, when a kid took my toy on
> the playground. Which is a bit more serious than that now. But that is
> how I feel. I am not a religious man. But I was told by someone, a
> while back. Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to
> suffer. So that everyone else can see the problems of the ones
> suffering. And know that is not what they want. Everything happens for
> a reason. And if everything happens for a reason, doesn't that mean our
> lives or pre-determined. And if it is pre-determined we have no control
> over this. For our path is allready written.
The whole attitude of being a passenger of the universe has to go unless
you want the ride to continue and end exactly the same way.
> Now what I have dream that
> this isn't true. And I can find my way out of this rutt. And hope to
> try and rewrite my path. If that is possible.
> Thank everyone here, that reads this for reading my complaints, and be
> as gentle as possible, when I ribbings start coming. For example. Stop
> whining, and get over you self pity. This is what I am expecting, but
> hoping for more. Thanks again.
Learn to be unaffected by text ribbings as a start.
Slurk
My apologies, we've had alot of trolls,puppets around here lately.
I agree with others that learning more about the female psyche, and
psychology in general will help you.
RonW
Desert Storm(Shield). I have seen a little action. But I still to this
day, can't fathom, why women scare me to death. I would rather stare
down the barrel of a rifle, than approach a woman, and get rejected.>
Nobody likes rejection.
<For that I know, that he did nothing to provoke this attitude.
He is a very dear friend, one of the few people in this world that I
would literally die for. But this isn't the only time that this has
happened. I don't know why I am so jealous of him.>
Two reasons
1. He has skills you would like to have.
2. He has better luck with women.
<Recently, where I was working there was a woman, that I was totally
intrested in. It was ever so clear to everyone, that I was intrested in
her. Kindness, attention,
candy, roses. If I could give it, it was hers. I got my friend a job,
at this establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my
phone number on multiple occasions. Never to recieve a call.
No more than a week after he is there, they are spending time
together.>
I can relate to this.
During my stint in the army, living in one of those wonderful
environments where the male/female ratio was like 50 to 1, there was a
girl I was very interested in at this church I was attending. I tried
to get close to her as best I knew how - which is tough for a
non-social loner type person. I didn't do the roses but I think I
did get the message of 'I'm interested' across.
At one point, she tells me I should bring some cute guys to church -
which really knocked me down a few pegs. That would mean a negative
since my esteem was at zero to start with. Then the real kick came
when this one guy wanted to come to church with me - and inside I
knew if he did, she would be interested in him. Just to back up a bit,
my life outside of the military workday I kept separate, guarded, and
almost secret. Thus when this guy wanted to go, in my mind, he was
intruding, and while I liked him and he was decent to me, I really
didn't want him there. However, in my mind (and conscience) I knew I
was really off when it came to people and social skills - and that I
really shouldn't mind if he came along. And even though this girl
wasn't at all interested in nerdy ole me, the last thing I wanted was
to see her with someone else.
Anyway, he came and that was the end of the story. They became a
couple almost immediately.
< I am not a religious man. But I was told by someone, a
while back. Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to
suffer. So that everyone else can see the problems of the ones
suffering. >
Your life is a network of dynamics completely different from anyone
else. Your sufferings, problems, and the good things are all there for
their own reasons. Problems have their way of sharpening us - think
about how lazy and ingrown we would be if we never had any kind of
conflicts. Although while we are going through the conflicts,
obviously we aren't going to like them - but they will be the very
resources that teach us how to compensate and adapt in life.
Hey, isn't that what the army teaches us? To compensate, adapt, and
proceed. (or something like that)
<. And I can find my way out of this rutt. And hope to
try and rewrite my path. If that is possible. >
Your 'will' supercedes the rut. If you want out, get out.
The esteem part is where your personal faith gets involved - personal
faith is a tool you build over time that is made up of many different
mini-resources such as confidence, self-confidence (I see these as two,
not one), determination, resourcefulness, cognition, and preservation.
This is a short list (can come back to this if I need to) of skills
that are a part of the 'personal faith' category. Faith is a
cultivated trait - meaning that all those little areas which make up
your personal faith need to be built up via baby steps. Over time you
become more confident with who you are and can succeed in bigger areas.
Will + Faith + Purpose = Power (the ability to cause change/s that you
desire)
RW
michaela
> don't they? Particularly when we already have very little of it to
> spare...
Who gives them this power?
- Micheala
Hunte...@hotmail.com
I guess one of the biggest problems that I see everyday in the news
the tabloids, and reality television. The men (women) that go for the
Pick Up Artists, are the ones that get hurt by them, and then turn
around, and treat the rest of us with distrust, and content. That is
more likely to provide, everything that they need. The attention after
the first date. After what the Pick Up Artists gets what he (she) wants
leaves them in the dust. In which time after that, makes that person
less trusting of everyone else.
This same friend that I spoke of, knows of my problem with the
opposite sex. He purchased a book for me called "The Art of Suduction
by Robert Green". Getting excited that help may be in the future with
the book. I read through the pages, and find that nothing in this book,
is going to help me. I cannot see myself blatantly decieving someone
like that. When discussed with him. He informed me to read the book
anyway, to spot when I am being used. I seen wisdom in this. But I
found myself feeling gulity of even thinking about doing something like
this.
I might see something like this if I wasn't looking for someone that
I want to spend my life with. This is hiding behind a false persona.
But the longer you do something the more you are doomed to become the
persona. This is something that I can't do. I cannot see how a person,
like the Pick Up Artist can live with themselves. This is emotional
warfare to them. A war that they cannot lose. There only reason is to
conquerer the oppsite sex. To which hurts the rest of us later on down
the victims there minds. Will this person do the something to me as the
last one. And they become calus. I ask this do they care what they do
to there victims. I answer no, they only care for there own
gratification. I would like to for shame to them, but they care less
what others think about them.
Adven...@nospam.com
> But I still to this
> day, can't fathom, why women scare me to death.
They are a mystery to you - I would guess, since it would seem your
interaction with them hasn't been great. And I would go on to guess that
when you have asked a woman out, it's taken a lot to work yourself up to
that point, so that you place so much on it, that if she declines you see
it as if your world has ended. Simply put - you are putting way too much
value on her acceptance or rejection.
> I know that I am not George Clooney, but I am not a Nosferatu either.
Fortunately, women are much more forgiving of how a man looks, if he is
comfortable with how he looks. Of course, you still have to make her want
to get to know you.
> Today was really troubling. I was out with a friend today, and he was
> approached by a woman, who wanted to sell him some nail care stuff at
> the mall.
I had one of them try that last year - ended up having her come over to
drop off one of the ones she didn't have. Took a while to discover what she
didn't have, but she was cute and I had time. Besides, one of the things I
asked her about was if she could make toenails shine and that if I was
going to buy one, she'd have to show me. She did, and I did - among other
things. Yes, it was a ridiculous line of conversation - which is why she
came over since she later told me that in all of her years supplementing
her earnings for college no one had ever tried to pick her up by insisting
she work on his toenails. :)
> And when I returned
> she had given him her phone number. Now what I don't understand about
> that is, I can reasonlly be sure, he will never call this woman.
Women know this - that is why they will give their numbers freely if you
hit the correct chord, and all it takes is joking with them, or being
interesting.
> I know, that he did nothing to provoke this attitude.
You resent that it's easy for him, and so hard for you.
> He is a very dear friend, one of the few people in this world that I
> would literally die for. But this isn't the only time that this has
> happened. I don't know why I am so jealous of him.
I think a better term would be "envious" of him.
> it seems that everything that he does, no matter what.
> Turns to gold.
Do you know why? It is because he finds a way to make it beneficial.
Everyone can do that, it's all in one's perspective.
> Recently, where I was
> working there was a woman, that I was totally intrested in. It was ever
> so clear to everyone, that I was intrested in her. Kindness, attention,
> candy, roses. If I could give it, it was hers.
Big mistake - no one wants something that's free and doesn't take an
effort to get. You made it so that she knew she could have you any time -
so you would be a good fall back if nothing better showed up. Always make a
woman work for your interest, and make her keep working to hold it. When
you go out, let her see you checking out the other women. Flirt
outrageously, and if she gets upset you just say you're having fun. Trust
me, she'll be a lot happier having to work to hold your attention, then
having it given to her for nothing. When she sees other responding to your
flirting, she feels she has accomplished something by keeping you
interested in her, but she also knows she has to keep working to hold your
interest. If a woman every feels totally secure in a relationship - it's
over, she'll start wanting excitement. They may say they want one thing -
and it's true - but they have to keep working for it for that to be of
value to them.
> I got my friend a job,
> at this establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my
> phone number on multiple occasions. Never to recieve a call.
> No more than a week after he is there, they are spending time together.
> No matter what he says, that he is not intrested in her.
So he is a challenge to her... That is what women respond to - a
challenge... You aren't a challenge... It is that simple.
> Because he says that he is not intrested. And he has the
> means of having the woman, that I felt for.
He probably isn't interested especially - but if a woman makes herself
available, any man will avail himself. It doesn't mean anything special -
she offered, he accepted. You might want to be the one she was offering it
too, but that only happens if she is working hard for your attention. Which
she isn't - so forget about her, you may be surprised that she suddenly
finds that she wants your attention. But don't give it, stop doing all of
the things you do for her now - make her work for it. It may be too late,
but it's always worth a chance...
> Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to
> suffer.
That's a crock, that let's people get away with not taking
responsibility for their successes or failures. Or more importantly it
allows them to feel better about their continual failures.
> For our path is allready written.
Bull... We make our own destiny.
> Stop whining, and get over you self pity.
That is a good first step, but it doesn't tell you how to overcome your
multitude of problems, which all stem from your fear of women. You need to
overcome that, the easiest way is to face your fear. I could give you many
ways to do this - one is to make it your goal to be shot down as many times
as possible in a 1 month period. Be outrageous, make it your goal to fail
at picking up women - make failing a success. Make it a game and have fun
doing it - be outrageous and funny. You'll find that you're not afraid of
asking women out, and will see it for what it is - just part of life. It
doesn't change anything - it's just an answer to a question. Move on and
keep asking. :)
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Bluebeard
<michaela> wrote in message
news:kIqdnf7AZ7QewhbY...@is.co.za...
False analysis. Few will willingly give this power to women - they simply
take it.
When a burglar robs you of your watch, do you 'give' it to them?
Men have different a hormonal balance to women. If anything 'gives' it to
women, it must be our inner male sexual need, which we have no choice but to
suffer from. And which women mercilessly exploit.
We can choose how we act, but not how we feel inside.
Bluebeard
Michaela Mackenzie
And imo you *can* choose whether to react or to respond
to this world.
I do it every day. Several times a day, in fact.
When a driver pushes in front of me and I'm also in
a hurry, I tell myself "Well perhaps he just feels
he's in more of a hurry than I am." And then I forget
about it.
If I don't do that, then I'm likely to sit there stewing
about it, which imo is not good for my mental or physical
health.
- Michaela
Hunte...@hotmail.com
I would have to say, that is easier said than done. I will not say
that I have a anger problem. But when someone cuts me off, I yell and
scream at them even though nothing will come of it. I hate to say, but
I am kinda emotional. When I feel that I am wronged, I tend to express
it. I guess that is something that I could work on also. Count to 10 or
something like that. While trying to maintain a smile.
Michaela Mackenzie
I am learning to say "There but for the grace of God go I."
- Michaela
Bluebeard
"Michaela Mackenzie" <michaelamack...@yahoo.com> wrote in message
news:1166785371.3...@79g2000cws.googlegroups.com...
> Bluebeard wrote:
>> We can choose how we act, but not how we feel inside.
>>
>> Bluebeard
>
> And imo you *can* choose whether to react or to respond
> to this world.
>
> I do it every day. Several times a day, in fact.
>
> When a driver pushes in front of me and I'm also in
> a hurry, I tell myself "Well perhaps he just feels
> he's in more of a hurry than I am." And then I forget
> about it.
>
> If I don't do that, then I'm likely to sit there stewing
> about it, which imo is not good for my mental or physical
> health.
>
>
Quite. We can choose how to _act_ (or react) but we can't choose how to
_feel_ ; that's more instinctive and emotional.
With the bad driver, you're choosing to act sensibly and with restraint, as
indeed you should. But that doesn't mean you didn't _feel_ the impatience
or distress beforehand.
Just as men should be expected to control their untoward urges toward women
and place them to one side. But that doesn't stop men having these
feelings, or women riding roughshod over them.
Happy Christmas!
Bluebeard
Michaela Mackenzie
> "Michaela Mackenzie" wrote
> > Bluebeard wrote:
>
> >> We can choose how we act, but not how we feel inside.
> >>
> >> Bluebeard
> >
> > And imo you *can* choose whether to react or to respond
> > to this world.
> >
> > I do it every day. Several times a day, in fact.
> >
> > When a driver pushes in front of me and I'm also in
> > a hurry, I tell myself "Well perhaps he just feels
> > he's in more of a hurry than I am." And then I forget
> > about it.
> >
> > If I don't do that, then I'm likely to sit there stewing
> > about it, which imo is not good for my mental or physical
> > health.
> >
> >
>
> Quite. We can choose how to _act_ (or react) but we can't choose how to
> _feel_ ; that's more instinctive and emotional.
>
> With the bad driver, you're choosing to act sensibly and with restraint, as
> indeed you should. But that doesn't mean you didn't _feel_ the impatience
> or distress beforehand.
>
> Just as men should be expected to control their untoward urges toward women
> and place them to one side. But that doesn't stop men having these
> feelings, or women riding roughshod over them.
>
> Happy Christmas!
>
> Bluebeard
I may not be able to choose my initial reaction, but
if I remind myself (and continue to remind myself each
and every time it happens) I create new habits for myself,
and I learn to become more responsible and less reactive.
- Michaela
Jeff
> When I approached, I was the butt of a joke, that made me
> feel really small.
Hunterefin,
Hi. I can relate to many of your experiences especially feeling small.
This has it's roots in shame as shyness for many people has it's roots in
shame. Some of the people who responded to you have suggested you need to
have a better understanding of women. Socializing with the opposite sex is
worthy of study, but at the same time it can never hurt to have a better
understanding of yourself. Remember that shyness is only one part of
yourself and doesn't have to define who you are as a whole. Here are some
websites that gave great insight into shyness and suggestions for overcoming
it. The advise at these sites has lifted my spirits, given me hope and
encouragement, and helped me to better understand myself, so I frequently
revisit them.
http://www.shakeyourshyness.com/
http://www.shyrelease.com/
http://homepages.ius.edu/Special/Shyness/tips.html
http://www.romanceclass.com/miscr/howto/shyness/index.asp
http://www.self-confidence.co.uk/shyness/tips.html
http://ny.essortment.com/tipsforovercom_rgvw.htm
And there are many other shyness websites, check 'em out.
Advice others gave that rang true with me include practice being rejected.
You'll find this advice given at some of the websites listed above. Have a
plan though in case someone says yes (keep the plan short and simple). This
is the perfect time of the year for this. You can walk into any store
without looking suspicious because it's Christmas time. You can talk to
both clerks and customers. If you're more comfortable talking to a clerk
(the sales experience is a good excuse to start a conversation) pick women's
stores that you would never otherwise find yourself in. If things don't go
well you can leave knowing you'll never have to return. If you'd rather
talk to customers, go to a neighborhood you usually don't go to. Picking
small specialty shops that may not be so crowded might make it easier to
talk to someone if no one else is listening.
No ones life is predetermined. Excluding fame and wealth, you can have the
life you want. Some music:
Beatles: Blackbird
Crosby, Stills, Nash & Young: Deja Vu (the song)
If you read self-help books, sometimes you'll find the difference between
reacting and responding talked about. I practice responding a lot and it's
difficult because I usually freeze up or occasionally I go to the opposite
end of the spectrum and react. Learning to respond effectively is a major
chore for me, but I know it's worth the effort.
I'm new here as well, I look forward to future chats.
guiTarzan
> When a driver pushes in front of me and I'm also in
> a hurry, I tell myself "Well perhaps he just feels
> he's in more of a hurry than I am." And then I forget
> about it.
I usually swear and stick my finger in the air. THEN I forget about it.
michaela
<crude response>
- Michaela
crysta...@hotmail.com
> I am new to this type of confession.
Hello.
> know that I am not George Clooney, but I am not a Nosferatu either.
It's good that you have a realistic physical self-image.
> And trying to remedy this, the comment sent away flying with anger.
> And a fit of jealously towards my best friend. For that I know, that he
> did nothing to provoke this attitude.
What happened, exactly? If he teased you, being upset (and snapping at
him) is understandable. If he has something you want, being jealous is
understandable. Snapping at him because you're jealous is not so good.
You can't control the world around you, but you can control how you
react to it. And if you're jealous, focus on what you have.
> It was ever so clear to everyone, that I was intrested in her.
> Kindness,
If your kindness towards her was clear, are you generally unkind? I
think being kind, in general, makes most people more attractive.
> attention,
That's a good way to show interest.
> candy, roses.
These are romantic, and you should only give romantic gifts when you're
dating. If you weren't already going on dates then these gestures were
probably a mistake, and might even be interpreted as creepy if she was
already not interested and ignoring your calls.
> I got my friend a job, at this establishment.
You make your friend sound parasitic. You got him a job, and he made
fun of you and dated the woman you like. If that's the way you look at
him, or that's the way he really is, then perhaps not hanging for
awhile might be a good idea.
> Some people are meant to succeed while other were made to suffer.
True, but it sounds like you can improve this situation.
crysta...@hotmail.com
> When a driver pushes in front of me and I'm also in
> a hurry, I tell myself "Well perhaps he just feels
> he's in more of a hurry than I am." And then I forget
> about it.
That's great, I try to do that too. I also lookup the place I'm
visiting on a map and leave ten minutes early, so it's rare a car
cutting me off will ruin my day.
Although, there was this lousy blue sports car who prevented me from
taking an exit a month ago and added 20 minutes to my trip... grr...
Mr. 4BXZ337, some day we'll meet again. You better watch for me!!
Bernd Jendrissek
Hash: SHA1
In article <1166717288....@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>
Hunte...@hotmail.com <Hunte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>One of the things that I am looking for. Is not just a relationship,
>but a companion, a friend, a lover, someone that I can spend my life
>with. Possibly the mother of our children.
I can identify with your sentiments but I think we are both better
served by acting AS IF our only goal were to get laid with no
requirement for a continued relationship. It frees our mind to
concentrate on the most immediate goal, which makes it a lot more
achievable if you don't weigh it down with all sorts of unnecessary (at
the moment) baggage.
- --
It is manipulative to not be manipulative.
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Bernd Jendrissek
Hash: SHA1
In article <1166786253.6...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>
Hunte...@hotmail.com <Hunte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I will not say that I have a anger problem. But when someone cuts me
>off, I yell and scream at them even though nothing will come of it. I
>hate to say, but I am kinda emotional.
I think you might be playing a bit of Wooden Leg here: "I am kinda
emotional, how can you expect me not to have a fit of road rage?"
Mental discipline will do you a world of good. Question yourself on all
your emotions: WHY do you feel so jealous when your friend picks up the
girls so easily? You might learn something and grow from it.
>When I feel that I am wronged, I tend to express it.
Can you read minds to know when you have been "wronged"? Or does intent
have any place at all in your mind when you decide whether you were
"wronged" or not?
Were you "wronged" if some guy cuts you off because he's rushing his
labouring wife to the maternity ward? If someone veers into your lane
because some speed freak boy racer wants to overtake everybody on the
road at twice the speed of sound, and there's no place else to go but to
veer into "your" lane?
>I guess that is something that I could work on also. Count to 10 or
>something like that.
Yes, do that. Like William P says, it's rather pathetic to get all
worked up about something you can't change.
>While trying to maintain a smile.
You don't have to be "fake" about HOW you stay calm. In fact I think
it's healthier (and more attractive) to *express* your disapproval of
whatever's bothering you. What you want to cut out is the reactiveness.
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crysta...@hotmail.com
Bluebeard wrote:
> Quite. We can choose how to _act_ (or react) but we can't choose how to
> _feel_ ; that's more instinctive and emotional.
> With the bad driver, you're choosing to act sensibly and with restraint, as
> indeed you should. But that doesn't mean you didn't _feel_ the impatience
> or distress beforehand.
Do you play an instrument? The first hundred times you play a song, you
may have to think about it, but as some point, many of the notes become
instinctual. It's the same with driving, typing, and many other skills.
It's downright rare that I get upset about being cut-off in traffic.
> Happy Christmas!
Same to you!
Hunte...@hotmail.com
I thanks everyone in here that is proposing advice to me in this
manner. But, as I said, I am looking for someone that I can spend my
life with. A first I want to be friends. Getting laid to me is just a
perk, it isn't my main ambition. I know that I can't say that I have
not manipulated anyone, but when I do this I feel guilty about it.
Being emotional the way that I am, also makes my consciense extremely
hard on myself. And to me I like this in a way, because it makes me
second guess, what I might do to someone. I am not inhertently
manipulative, to me this is dishonest. What would you say, that if I
did manipulate a woman, that may be like me towards self esteme and
shyness problems. And get to which you say is laid. And get it and go.
And in tow hurt this woman. I have a problem just thinking about
manipulating people. Amagin what I might feel like, if I hurt someone
that didn't deserve this. Honesty is a virtue that I cherish. And
again, I will not blow smoke up everyones ass. And say that I have
never lied. But I don't want lie to a woman, just to get her in bed.
That is the type of thing that it is making people like me, so hard to
find someone. Because after a woman is hurt, they tend to return in
kind, just at someone else. Of what I read, they tend to hold on to
this a while. And then when they can't find someone, because they have
borders so thick, they get even more calus.
It is like business, if you own a store, and you are losing money
because of loss, you will raise your prices to compensate for the loss.
In so doing this, the person that may want this item can't afford
because he is priced out of the store. That takes away from the
company, and if something isn't done, to get back the lost customers,
that business is doomed to fail, unless another company provided
assistance.
I see myself as one of these customers priced out of the store,
because of the bad rep we get for being dogs and untrustworthy. I will
mention this again. I thank you for your way of helping me. At least
you took the time, to read my rant. And was kind enough to respond to
it. Thank You. But I don't think this is my kind of action. That I
would be comfortable doing.
crysta...@hotmail.com
> I have a problem just thinking about manipulating people. Amagin
> what I might feel like, if I hurt someone that didn't deserve this. Honesty
> is a virtue that I cherish. And again, I will not blow smoke up everyones
> ass. And say that I have never lied. But I don't want lie to a woman,
> just to get her in bed. That is the type of thing that it is making people
> like me, so hard to find someone.
That's awesome. Your positive attitude gives you a better chance of
finding yourself in a happy relationship than many here. Skip the
generic romantic gifts like roses and candies until you're dating, and
leaving your phone number multiple times--once is plenty.
When you talk with her, search for common ground. If there isn't any,
there's little prospect for a long-term relationship. Buy something
related to your common interest that shows you listen, which you might
even buy for a friend. Find opportunities at work, and eventually
outside work, to share your interest together.
The woman you described that works with you is not interested--move on.
Perhaps join a club where you can meet some new friends.
michaela
Was this last paragraph for effect? I ask cos it kinda contradicts
everything else I've read of yours.
(Are you Emma?)
- Michaela
ci+
news:1166698445.2...@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com:
> When I approached, I was the butt of a joke, that made me
> feel really small. I had to walk away from that.
that's not good... sure it's a minor thing, but... who did that?
>And when I
> returned she had given his her phone number. Now what I don't
> understand about that is, I can reasonlly be sure, he will never
> call this woman. I have known for a while, now that I have low
> self esteem. And trying to remedy this, the comment sent away
> flying with anger. And a fit of jealously towards my best friend.
> For that I know, that he did nothing to provoke this attitude.
> He is a very dear friend, one of the few people in this world that
> I would literally die for. But this isn't the only time that this
> has happened. I don't know why I am so jealous of him. Let me
> rephrase that. I don't know why I should be jealous. I can't lie
> to myself. I know why, it seems that everything that he doesn't,
> no matter what. Turns to gold. When a problem comes his way, no
> matter how badly it seems to be. It turns out smelling like roses.
> Recently, where I was working there was a woman, that I was
> totally intrested in. It was ever so clear to everyone, that I was
> intrested in her. Kindness, attention, candy, roses. If I could
> give it, it was hers. I got my friend a job, at this
> establishment. Let it be known, that I gave this woman, my phone
> number on multiple occasions. Never to recieve a call. No more
> than a week after he is there, they are spending time together.
> No matter what he says, that he is not intrested in her. That
> again made me very angry. Why should I be angry at him for this?
ok... to be angry at him isn't useful... to be angry at her isn't useful...
some things just aren't right.. i'd suggest going with that... keep loking at what you can do, but certainly don't believe
you are wrong just because of these kinds of experiences (where you did nothing bad)
>I
> will also answer this. Because he says that he is not intrested.
> And he has the means of having the woman, that I felt for. To
> which, I was not even a throught of again. I am very angry about
> myself now, for feeling this way, about a man, who didn't ask for
> this. I know this is all my faught. I am being a childish little
> brat, when a kid took my toy on the playground.
--
http://www.cringehumor.net/forums/showthread.php?t=292
ci+
> Anyway, he came and that was the end of the story. They became a
> couple almost immediately.
that burns...
i guess i'm lucky to never have had much of friends.... so nothing like this could ever happen "to" me...
--
http://www.cringehumor.net/forums/showthread.php?t=292
ci+
>> know that I am not George Clooney, but I am not a Nosferatu either.
>
> It's good that you have a realistic physical self-image.
some day clooney may play the role of nosferatu... and then what will we do?
--
http://www.cringehumor.net/forums/showthread.php?t=292
Slurk
michaela wrote:
> crysta...@hotmail.com wrote:
> >
> > Although, there was this lousy blue sports car who prevented me from
> > taking an exit a month ago and added 20 minutes to my trip... grr...
> > Mr. 4BXZ337, some day we'll meet again. You better watch for me!!
>
> Was this last paragraph for effect? I ask cos it kinda contradicts
> everything else I've read of yours.
>
> (Are you Emma?)
>
> - Michaela
I don't know who this "Emma" is, but I wouldn't be surprised if this
crystal_lyne is a puppet or a troll. She doesn't seem that shy, it's
kind of strange she would end up on a usenet group for shyness.
crysta...@hotmail.com
I don't usually get upset, but that one time I was for a minute. I was
joking about recording their license plate number, or having any
long-term vendetta against the driver.
> (Are you Emma?)
No. Hopefully she'll return in January.
> - Michaela
William P
@penguin.wetton.example.org:
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>
> In article <1166717288....@48g2000cwx.googlegroups.com>
> Hunte...@hotmail.com <Hunte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>>One of the things that I am looking for. Is not just a relationship,
>>but a companion, a friend, a lover, someone that I can spend my life
>>with. Possibly the mother of our children.
>
> I can identify with your sentiments but I think we are both better
> served by acting AS IF our only goal were to get laid with no
> requirement for a continued relationship.
I don't agree with that at all. Requiring a physical relationship is one
thing, but I know there are lots of very worthwhile women, perhaps most,
who are not going to respond well to a sex-first approach.
"Normal" people, who aren't hardcore partiers or swingers or something,
just don't do it that way. People like teachers and physicists and
accountants and married programmers usually do things the conventional
way, through the dating process, and very many of them achieve good
marriages.
> It frees our mind to
> concentrate on the most immediate goal, which makes it a lot more
> achievable if you don't weigh it down with all sorts of unnecessary (at
> the moment) baggage.
The first stage has to be getting to the point where a guy can feel
comfortable with himself and can talk to a woman in a straightforward way
without it being a monumental life event. (This alone may be extremely
trying and difficult.) After that, it's time to make the tweaks, but not
before, in my opinion.
michaela
> michaela wrote:
>> (Are you Emma?)
>
> No. Hopefully she'll return in January.
And who might you be then? Lisa?
- Michaela
--
"Enlightenment, for a wave in the ocean,
is the moment the wave realises it is water."
Bluebeard
>
> I may not be able to choose my initial reaction, but
> if I remind myself (and continue to remind myself each
> and every time it happens) I create new habits for myself,
> and I learn to become more responsible and less reactive.
>
> - Michaela
>
So it's like...... if you live say in a high-crime area in S Africa, you get
so used to working round it that you no longer think about it every time you
go out ?
Yes, I'm sure that's true. We can internalise our coping habits sufficiently
so that we no longer feel the emotions which were part of our original
reaction to the situation. But that doesn't negate the injustice of the
original situation.
For example, it's not right people may have to take for granted that muggers
will torment them when they go out. Even though in practice people must
become 'responsible'. They can adopt coping strategies, become less
'reactive' and become so accustomed to the situation they learn to accept
it.
Equally, it's not right we men have to take for granted that women may
torment us (through their revealing dress or behaviour) when we go out.
Even though in practice men must become 'responsible'. We can adopt coping
strategies, become less 'reactive' and become so accustomed to the situation
we learn to accept it.
IMO natural justice says that women should dress and act demurely and
considerately in public, unless they are prepared to satisfy the needs
they'll otherwise stoke up...!
Bluebeard
Jeff
>"Bernd Jendrissek" <ber...@prism.co.za>:
>
>>
>> Hunte...@hotmail.com wrote:
>>One of the things that I am looking for. Is not just a relationship,
>>but a companion, a friend, a lover, someone that I can spend my life
>>with. Possibly the mother of our children.
>>
>
> I can identify with your sentiments but I think we are both better
> served by acting AS IF our only goal were to get laid with no
> requirement for a continued relationship. It frees our mind to
> concentrate on the most immediate goal, which makes it a lot more
> achievable if you don't weigh it down with all sorts of unnecessary (at
> the moment) baggage.
>
I agree with Bernd's *concept* here, but I don't think the focus should be
sex. Removing the long-term thoughts you desire takes some of the pressure
off and allows you to focus on the here-and-now. When you're getting to
know someone new, it should be a fun, light-hearted experience - not much
thought should be given to the long term early on in a relationship.
The fact that you view sex as a bonus or perk is healthy and I'm sure will
help win the hearts of many ladies. At the same time, don't ignore your
sexual desires. We're all born with a sex drive and therefore sex becomes
an integral part of romantic relationships, and a very important part of who
you are as well.
crysta...@hotmail.com
> >
> > No. Hopefully she'll return in January.
>
> And who might you be then? Lisa?
I don't believe we've met before. I'm called crystal_lyne.
Hunte...@hotmail.com
Jeff
> The fact that you view sex as a bonus or perk is healthy and I'm sure will
> help win the hearts of many ladies. At the same time, don't ignore your
> sexual desires. We're all born with a sex drive and therefore sex becomes
> an integral part of romantic relationships, and a very important part of who
> you are as well.
Like I tell everyone else here. I thank everyone for their imput on
this. I can deffently say, that I have desires, and them desires run
really deep. Sense I ex, which has been close to 3 years, was the last
time, that I have engaged in such activity. I have grown almost
comfortable, with not having it. Right now, I would just be happy to be
able to comfortable talking to a woman, that I don't know. When I am at
work, I am a ball of fire. I can talk to anyone, at anytime. I am
outgoing and friendly. I know the reason for this, it is my job. I am
talking on behave of someone else. But once work is over, and don't
have the same type of luck. I cannot seem to convince myself, that the
two are no different. If I can talk to someone at work, I should be
able to talk to someone outside of work. Then again, I look at it this
way, when I try to sell something. That person is not tell me no, that
person is tell the company no. No is a very damaging word.
Again thanks for your input.
michaela
> "Michaela Mackenzie" wrote
You've given me something to think about.
Thanks.
michaela
> "Michaela Mackenzie" wrote
You've given me something to think about.
Bluebeard
<michaela> wrote in message news:2_udnQcr_5Z...@is.co.za...
Well full marks to you ! I only hope I shall prove as open minded. ;-)
All the best,
Bluebeard
Bernd Jendrissek
Hash: SHA1
In article <1166851167....@73g2000cwn.googlegroups.com>
Hunte...@hotmail.com <Hunte...@hotmail.com> wrote:
>I see myself as one of these customers priced out of the store, because
>of the bad rep we get for being dogs and untrustworthy.
This is where you are wrong!
Look at what women DO and ignore what they SAY: they say they "want" an
honest man but who do they sleep with? The dishonest scoundrel!
The first shackle you need to loosen here is your gender guilt complex.
Learn to be PROUD to be a man!
- --
Chuck Norris once roundhouse kicked someone so hard that his foot broke the
speed of light, went back in time, and killed Amelia Earhart while she was
flying over the Pacific Ocean.
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Michaela Mackenzie
That's going to take an eternity. The guys here have often said
they won't bother with a woman they're not attracted to i.e. they
are only prepared to do something if there's something in it for them.
Kinda catch-22 innit?
- Michaela