Phosphate Binders Bad

[ironjustice]

Study questions safety and effectiveness of common kidney disease
drugs
Longest placebo-controlled trial of phosphate binders conducted to
date challenges the drugs' utility

http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-07/ason-sqs071312.php

"While we continue to believe that serum, or blood, phosphorus is a
key component of the increased cardiovascular risk associated with
kidney disease, our results suggest the use of the currently approved
phosphate binding drugs does not result in substantial reductions in
serum phosphorus and may be associated with harm in this population,"
said Dr. Block. "Future clinical trials should be conducted in all
populations with adequate placebo controls and should address
alternative or complementary methods to reduce serum phosphorus," he
added.


Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

[Pendrag0n]

On Sat, 21 Jul 2012 13:39:14 -0700 (PDT), ironjustice
<ironj...@rock.com> wrote:

>Study questions safety and effectiveness of common kidney disease
>drugs
>Longest placebo-controlled trial of phosphate binders conducted to
>date challenges the drugs' utility
>
>http://www.eurekalert.org/pub_releases/2012-07/ason-sqs071312.php
>
>"While we continue to believe that serum, or blood, phosphorus is a
>key component of the increased cardiovascular risk associated with
>kidney disease, our results suggest the use of the currently approved
>phosphate binding drugs does not result in substantial reductions in
>serum phosphorus and may be associated with harm in this population,"
>said Dr. Block. "Future clinical trials should be conducted in all
>populations with adequate placebo controls and should address
>alternative or complementary methods to reduce serum phosphorus," he
>added.
>

No surprises there then. Yet another example of don't believe
everything the drug companies tell our doctors. Like they care anyway!

I wonder what are "alternative or complementary methods to reduce
serum phosphorus"?

[ahmathilda]

"Pendrag0n" <nom...@thnx.com> wrote

> <ironj...@rock.com> wrote:
>
>>
>
> No surprises there then. Yet another example of don't believe
> everything the drug companies tell our doctors. Like they care anyway!
>
> I wonder what are "alternative or complementary methods to reduce
> serum phosphorus"?
>

there is a phosphorus antagonist list on the bottom of this page:
www.acu-cell.com/pna.html

[Pendrag0n]

Like the note about feet :)

[ironjustice]

On Jul 21, 10:25 pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:I wonder what

are "alternative or complementary methods to reduce serum phosphorus"?
<<

Lowering phosphorus results in kidney stones .

"The risk for oxalocalcic urolithiasis increases when urinary
phosphorus inhibitors
decrease."

Minimum handling method for the analysis of phosphorous
inhibitors of urolithiasis (pyrophosphate and phytic acid)
in urine by SPE-ICP techniques.
Anal Chim Acta. 2010 Jan 25;658(2):204-8. Epub 2009 Nov 10.
Muñoz JA, López-Mesas M, Valiente M.
Grup de Tècniques de Separació en Química (GTS), UAB-Thermo Lab,
Química Analítica, Departament de Química,
Universitat Autònoma de Barcelona, 08193 Bellaterra, Spain.

Pyrophosphate (PPi) and phytic acid (IP6) are natural phosphorous
compounds with growing interest in the biomedical field due to their
ability as potential inhibitors of urolithiasis among others.
Existing methodologies for their evaluation show inconveniences
mainly associated with sample treatment, matrix interferences and
lack of resolution.
The objective of the present work is the validation of a new method
to determine both inhibitors in urine samples selectively and its
application to the diagnosis of lithiasic patients.
After urine purification by an off-line anion exchange solid phase
extraction (SPE), based in an appropriate acidic elution gradient,
the phosphorous compounds were analyzed by (31)P measurements by
inductively coupled plasma mass spectrometry (ICP-MS) in the
purified urine extracts.
Linear range and limit of detection obtained were adequate for the
analysis of the physiological amounts of the compounds in urine.
The method was successfully applied to human urine samples, resulting
in adequate accuracy and precision and allowing for the analysis of
phosphorus inhibitors of urolithiasis in urine.
The method simplicity and high sample throughput leads to a clear
alternative to current determinations of the mentioned species in
urine.
Moreover, PPi and IP6 concentrations found in patients suffering
from oxalocalcic urolithiasic were significantly lower than those
for healthy controls, supporting the fact that the risk for
oxalocalcic urolithiasis increases when urinary phosphorus inhibitors
decrease.
Thus, speciation of phosphorus inhibitors of urolithiasis in urine
of stone formers can be performed, which is of unquestionable value
in diagnostic, treatment and monitoring of urolithiasis.


Copyright 2009 Elsevier B.V. All rights reserved.


PMID: 20103096

Who loves ya.
Tom


Jesus Was A Vegetarian!
http://tinyurl.com/634q5a


Man Is A Herbivore!
http://tinyurl.com/4rq595


DEAD PEOPLE WALKING
http://tinyurl.com/zk9fk

> serum phosphorus"?- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -

[Devils Advocaat]

What tickles me is when ordinary folk "discover" that prescription
medications have side effects and then jump to the conclusion that
drug companies, or their doctors, or other medical professionals are
hiding things, or being dishonest, or lying.

Every medication has side effects, some minor, a few debilitating, and
even fewer fatal. Each prescription medication I've ever had has a
strip of paper warning about who shouldn't take it, and what the
medication's side effects are, some even say statistically how many
people may experience them (as 1in 100 or 1,000 or 10,000).

[Pendrag0n]

They are.

>Every medication has side effects, some minor, a few debilitating, and
>even fewer fatal. Each prescription medication I've ever had has a
>strip of paper warning about who shouldn't take it, and what the
>medication's side effects are, some even say statistically how many
>people may experience them (as 1in 100 or 1,000 or 10,000).

Some people are led to believe they have no choice.

[John H. Gohde]

Lifestyle has no side effects.

I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.

["pill popper"]

"I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed."

Don't know, but a number of articles concluding there is a toxic level
which contributes to heart disease have been posted.

[John H. Gohde]

Tell me how people vitamin D has killed.

Prescription medication kills between 100,000 and 200,000 persons,
each and every year.

Tell me how people vitamin D has killed.

[Devils Advocaat]

Are you suggesting that I have implied in any of my posts that
lifestyle has no side effects?

>
> I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.

I have absolutely no idea, why don't you Google for it?

[Bob Officer]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h...@gmail.com>
wrote:

>Lifestyle has no side effects.

Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
can be either good or bad?

>I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.

There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
and heart disease and death.


--
Bob Officer
"It is not belief, it is curiousity. That's the big difference.
Religion and belief tie us to our predecessors, foresight and
curiousity tie us to our successors." Robert Templeton 1999

[Pendrag0n]

LOL now now.

>> I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>
>I have absolutely no idea, why don't you Google for it?

That's not very helpful is it. You seemed to be keen on helping and
now want us to help ourselves, make your mind up old bean :)

[Pendrag0n]

On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:05:58 -0700, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:

>On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h...@gmail.com>
>wrote:
>
>
>>Lifestyle has no side effects.
>
>Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
>can be either good or bad?
>
>>I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>
>There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
>and heart disease and death.

You would struggle to find them compared to the hundreds of thousands
that have problems with statins, which is the point being made.

[Devils Advocaat]

:P I am keen on helping, but there's a big difference between helping
and hand-holding, as I'm sure you know and understand. :)

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 17, 11:05 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

> John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h.go...@gmail.com>

> wrote:
>
> >Lifestyle has no side effects.
>
> Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
> can be either good or bad?

Do you realize how stupid Science Psychos sound? I do.

> >I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>
> There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
> and heart disease and death.

Tell me how people vitamin D has killed. Until I hear otherwise,
vitamin D has killed absolutely nobody.

[John H. Gohde]

Yep, Science Psychos are morons.

[Devils Advocaat]

Ah, an insult, how droll.

[mainframetech]

On Aug 17, 8:35 pm, "pill popper" wrote:

Most of those articles are all talking about a single study that
suggested that possibility. There are many studies out over the years
showing that there is practically no limit on the amount of Vitamin D3
an average person can take on. A person working outside in the sun
all day has taken on many tens of thousands of units of vitamin D and
it does no harm at all. Some concerned people take thousands of units
of supplements daily and are going along just fine. There may be some
folks that have an allergy or a problem of some kind with D3, but most
do not.

Lately the drug industry has ben on a kick to 'outlaw' supplements
and vitamins, so that the replacements they are making that cost more
and do less can take over and rake in more profits. They have the
billions to insert a story into the news, or to sway a study to say
mostly what they want.

An example is Lovaza which is made to replace Omega-3 fish oil. I
looked into Lovaza and found that it's mostly just the same exact fish
oil as Omega-3, but less of it. You had to take twice the amount of
Lovaza to equal Omega-3, at a higher price, with the irritation of
getting a prescription too!

They've managed to 'outlaw' supplements in the UK, but I'll let
those from there speak to it. Here in the USA there is a senator
(Dick Durbin) trying to give the FDA wide powers to make supplements
safe by taking them over and 'monitoring' them. So far they have
pushed him off, but he hasn't quit trying to attach his plan to other
bills in hopes no one will notice until too late.

Mind you, there have been 62,000 deaths from properly prescribed
drugs in one particular year, while the deaths from supplements and
vitamins was ZERO in the same year. So it becomes obvious why they
want control over the supplements.

Chris

[mainframetech]

Perhaps it would be easier to think of it as backing up what you
say, instead of making the listener do it for you...:)

Chris

["pill popper"]

> >Lifestyle has no side effects.
>
> Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
> can be either good or bad?

Do you realize how stupid Science Psychos sound? I do.


> >I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>
> There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
> and heart disease and death.

"Tell me how people vitamin D has killed. Until I hear otherwise, vitamin
D has killed absolutely nobody."

What a hoot.

How many people has lack of vit. d killed?

[John H. Gohde]

Millions by way of cancer and just about every chronic disease
imaginable.

[Pendrag0n]

Actually in the UK they have not outlawed supplements, certainly not
any I have a mind to try. Though of course this was the big fear. I
suspect it has got rid of many *cowboy* dealers, which is never a bad
thing especially when it comes to consumer protection. There is so
much junk readily available online, and much of it useless for its
intended *claimed* purpose. I suspect the US clampdown will be tougher
via the FDA.

[Pendrag0n]

And that would be a very conservative estimate I estimate.

[Bob Officer]

No the point is a claim that "overdoses of Vitamin D do not kill".
That is the only 'claim' being discussed.

[Bob Officer]

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 03:41:19 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
"John H. Gohde" <john.h...@gmail.com> wrote:

>On Aug 17, 11:05 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>> John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h.go...@gmail.com>
>> wrote:
>>
>> >Lifestyle has no side effects.
>>
>> Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
>> can be either good or bad?
>
>Do you realize how stupid Science Psychos sound? I do.

Then you know nothing, john. Lifestyle is simple how one lives.
Lifestyle is neither good nor bad.

Yourself sound like a person that pretends to be far smarter than you
are. (As if you are an old johnny come lately - script kiddie.

>> >I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>>
>> There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
>> and heart disease and death.
>
>
>Tell me how people vitamin D has killed. Until I hear otherwise,
>vitamin D has killed absolutely nobody.

Then John you are like an ostrich with your head stuck in the ground.
all that shows is of you is ass. and that john is how the public sees
you. Ignorant and stupid.

Intelligence has nothing to do with cancer, by the way.

You are so stupid you are going back where you belong in the
killfile. You are not worth the electrons to download what you write.


--
Bob Officer
I used to wonder just what a "calcium deficient idiot" was, and now I know
"I don't need to know the breakdown chains to know when
I am calcium deficient idiot." Carole Hubbard
Message-ID: <5Mfbp.11718$gM3....@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>

[Pendrag0n]

Pedantry has no place in a civilized world.

[Just Wondering]

From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning: "In the United
States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported
by 62,562 individuals in 2004 ... leading to 53 "major" life-threatening
outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E ...)." So however
unlikely it might be, a person CAN die from taking too much vitamin D.

[John H. Gohde]

It's funny how readily you choose to make a fool of yourself by
spouting
forth on things you know nothing about.

Prescription medication kills from 100,000 to 200,000+ every year.
Millions of people have died from vitamin D insufficiency, due to
cancer and just about every chronic disease imaginable. Yet, NOT one
single person has died from taking too much vitamin D.

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 18, 1:03 pm, Just Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> On 8/18/2012 12:40 AM, Pendrag0n wrote:
>
> > On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >> On Aug 17, 11:53 pm, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>> I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
> >> I have absolutely no idea, why don't you Google for it?
> > That's not very helpful is it. You seemed to be keen on helping and
> > now want us to help ourselves, make your mind up old bean :)
>

>  Fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning:  "In the United

> States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported
> by 62,562 individuals in 2004 ... leading to 53 "major" life-threatening
> outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E ...)."   So however
> unlikely it might be, a person CAN die from taking too much vitamin D.

Okay.

Official death count.

Prescription medication: 200,000+ annually

Vitamin D & E from all of recorded history: 2

[Bob Officer]

Watch John pull out the non-accurate claim that 100-200K people die
from prescription drugs as a claim/citation. This claims is so
seriously false that only an idiot would try to use the information
as a citation.



--
Bob Officer
"The only kind of successful scam is the kind where the person being
scammed does not at the time realize that the scammer is a scammer."
"To argue that something is not a scam because the people allegedly being
scammed do not think the alleged scammer is a scammer is thus kinda
pointless." Mike Combs expounding 'the mysteries'

[Just Wondering]

Rather than getting into a pissing contest, why not actually look at the
facts? The answer is a qualified "yes" and a much bigger "no".
Yes it is apparently (just barely) possible. Wikipedia reports a single
death from vitamin D toxicity in the USA in 2004. No, it is hugely
improbable, but short of death, vitamin D-3 overdoses can conceivably
cause permanent damage. However, the amount of D-3 required for this is
so massive it is extremely unlikely to occur. NO vitamin D-3 toxicity
has EVER been observed even at lifelong intake levels of 20,000 IU a
day. Your own body will produce that amount if exposed to a moderate
amount of sunlight.

It is much more likely that you suffer from a vitamin D-3 deficiency.
Perhaps two third of everyone in the USA, Canada, and Europe are
deficient. Since this thread as about the possibility of a fatal
overdose, I leave it at that.

Vitamin Poisoning

"In the United States, overdose exposure to all formulations of

"vitamins" was reported by 62,562 individuals in 2004 (nearly 80%(~78%,
n=48,989) of these exposures were in children under the age of 6),

leading to 53 "major" life-threatening outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from

Vitamins - D and E; 1 from polyvitaminic type formula, with iron and no
fluoride)."
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning


"Vitamin Toxicity "
The symptoms of vitamin D toxicity are nausea, vomiting, pain in the
joints, and loss of appetite. The patient may experience constipation
alternating with diarrhea, or have tingling sensations in the mouth. The
toxic dose of vitamin D depends on its frequency. In infants, a single
dose of 15 mg or greater may be toxic, but it is also the case that
daily doses of 1.0 mg over a prolonged period may be toxic. In adults, a
daily dose of 1.0-2.0 mg of vitamin D is toxic when consumed for a
prolonged period. A single dose of about 50 mg or greater is toxic for
adults. The immediate effect of an overdose of vitamin D is abdominal
cramps, nausea and vomiting. Toxic doses of vitamin D taken over a
prolonged period of time result in irreversible deposits of calcium
crystals in the soft tissues of the body that may damage the heart,
lungs, and kidneys.
In all cases, treatment of vitamin toxicity requires discontinuing
vitamin supplements. Vitamin D toxicity needs additional action to
reduce the calcium levels in the bloodstream because it can cause
abnormally high levels of plasma calcium (hypercalcemia). Severe
hypercalcemia is a medical emergency and may be treated by infusing a
solution of 0.9% sodium chloride into the patient's bloodstream.
The prognosis for reversing vitamin toxicity is excellent for most
patients. Side effects usually go away as soon as overdoses are stopped.
The exceptions are severe vitamin D toxicity, severe vitamin A toxicity,
and severe vitamin B6 toxicity. Too much vitamin D leads to deposits of
calcium salts in the soft tissue of the body, which cannot be reversed.
http://medical-dictionary.thefreedictionary.com/Vitamin+Toxicity


"Can you take too much vitamin D?"
http://www.vitamind3-cholecalciferol.com/vitamin-d-overdose.htm


"Vitamin D Toxicity"
The amount of supplemental vitamin D3 that would produce toxicity in
healthy individuals is not known exactly. It would certainly vary from
individual to individual.
Evidence from accidental overdose of vitamin D in individuals and
communities has given some indications.
It appears from this evidence that human toxicity starts at around
40,000 IU per day, but only when taken continuously for at least three
months.
Some people have taken much larger doses than this, for even longer
periods of time, without experiencing toxicity.
www.vitamind3-cholecalciferol.com/vitamin-d-toxicity.htm


"Can You Overdose on Vitamin D? It's Harder Than You Think"
Cases of vitamin D toxicity . . . all involve intake of (greater than
or equal to) 40,000 IU/d
Another study gave pregnant women 100,000 IU's per day for the entire
length of their pregnancy. The study concluded, "Thus, there is no
evidence in humans that even a 100,000 IU/d dose of vitamin D for
extended periods during pregnancy results in any harmful effects."
http://www.easy-immune-health.com/Overdose-on-Vitamin-D.html

[Just Wondering]

Well, that was in the USA alone, for one year - 2004. Perhaps there are
more somewhere in all of recorded history, but I haven't seen any other
reports. But you're essentially right, it's all but impossible to die
from too much vitamin D-3. You're probably more likely to die from an
infected ingrown toenail. And I agree with you that millions have
probably died from cancer and other causes, people who might have lived
had they been taking therapeutic doses of D-3. I wouldn't even worry
about minor adverse effects unless someone was taking well over 20,000
IU/day for over years.

[Just Wondering]

On 8/18/2012 12:31 PM, Bob Officer wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:03:56 -0600, in misc.health.alternative, Just
> Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
>
>> On 8/18/2012 12:40 AM, Pendrag0n wrote:
>>> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>>> <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>
>>>> On Aug 17, 11:53 pm, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
>>>>> I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>>>> I have absolutely no idea, why don't you Google for it?
>>> That's not very helpful is it. You seemed to be keen on helping and
>>> now want us to help ourselves, make your mind up old bean :)
>> From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning: "In the United
>> States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported
>> by 62,562 individuals in 2004 ... leading to 53 "major" life-threatening
>> outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E ...)." So however
>> unlikely it might be, a person CAN die from taking too much vitamin D.
> Watch John pull out the non-accurate claim that 100-200K people die
> from prescription drugs as a claim/citation. This claims is so
> seriously false that only an idiot would try to use the information
> as a citation.
>
>

Looks more like around 20,000 deaths per year.
Report: Prescription Drug Deaths Skyrocket
More people die in America every year from prescription drug abuse
than die from heroin and cocaine combined. That stunning finding comes
in a new report Tuesday from the Centers for Disease Control and
Prevention.
The CDC found a fourfold increase in deaths from prescription
narcotics over the past decade. Not surprisingly, it coincides with a
fourfold increase in the number of prescriptions written for the
powerful painkillers.
In 2008, the most recent year for which there are statistics,
there were 20,044 overdose deaths from prescription drugs. Of those,
14,800 were from narcotic painkillers.
http://www.foxnews.com/health/2011/11/01/prescription-drug-deaths-skyrocket/

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 18, 2:31 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 11:03:56 -0600, in misc.health.alternative, Just
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
> Wondering <fmh...@comcast.net> wrote:
> >On 8/18/2012 12:40 AM, Pendrag0n wrote:
> >> On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 19:23:49 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
>
> >>> On Aug 17, 11:53 pm, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >>>> I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
> >>> I have absolutely no idea, why don't you Google for it?
> >> That's not very helpful is it. You seemed to be keen on helping and
> >> now want us to help ourselves, make your mind up old bean :)
>

> > Fromhttp://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vitamin_poisoning:  "In the United

> >States, overdose exposure to all formulations of "vitamins" was reported
> >by 62,562 individuals in 2004 ... leading to 53 "major" life-threatening
> >outcomes and 3 deaths(2 from Vitamins - D and E ...)."   So however
> >unlikely it might be, a person CAN die from taking too much vitamin D.
>
> Watch John pull out the non-accurate claim that 100-200K people die
> from prescription drugs as a claim/citation. This claims is so
> seriously false that only an idiot would try to use the information
> as a citation.

I am simply quoting attorney, Jonathon Emord. Surely, you are NOT
calling Jonathon Emord a liar, cause that would be actionable in civil
court.

Prescription Drugs Kill Thousands

http://tinyurl.com/8na32gb

Health freedom attorney Jonathon Emord explains why many thousands of
people are killed each year by properly prescribed medications.
Despite the deaths, you can thank the corrupt FDA for allowing this to
continue to occur every year!

[mainframetech]

On Aug 18, 10:44 am, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 07:41:57 +0100, in misc.health.alternative,
>
>
>
>
>
> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> >On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:05:58 -0700, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
>
> >>On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,

> >>John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h.go...@gmail.com>

> >>wrote:
>
> >>>Lifestyle has no side effects.
>
> >>Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
> >>can be either good or bad?
>
> >>>I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>
> >>There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
> >>and heart disease and death.
>
> >You would struggle to find them compared to the hundreds of thousands
> >that have problems with statins, which is the point being made.
>
> No the point is a claim that "overdoses of Vitamin D do not kill".
> That is the only 'claim' being discussed.

B.O.,
What brings you away from alt.misc.alternative, your assigned
place?

Tell it to a worker that is outside bareback every day all day in
the sun with no effects over a lifetime.

But I won't speak for Zemplar.

Chris

[mainframetech]

POen,
Give it time. When there is a way for people to abuse a law for
their own purposes, they will. In time I expect they will tighten the
screws on certain supplements that are already developed by the drug
companies, just to get rid of the competition.

Chris

[Bob Officer]

On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 15:17:42 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>On Aug 18, 10:44 am, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
>> On Sat, 18 Aug 2012 07:41:57 +0100, in misc.health.alternative,
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
>> >On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 20:05:58 -0700, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
>>
>> >>On Fri, 17 Aug 2012 15:53:14 -0700 (PDT), in misc.health.alternative,
>> >>John H. Gohde 'The idiot become moronic' <john.h.go...@gmail.com>
>> >>wrote:
>>
>> >>>Lifestyle has no side effects.
>>
>> >>Lifestyle? You do realize how stupid that sounds, because lifestyle
>> >>can be either good or bad?
>>
>> >>>I invite you to tell me how people vitamin D has killed.
>>
>> >>There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose
>> >>and heart disease and death.
>>
>> >You would struggle to find them compared to the hundreds of thousands
>> >that have problems with statins, which is the point being made.
>>
>> No the point is a claim that "overdoses of Vitamin D do not kill".
>> That is the only 'claim' being discussed.

Note Chris didn't stay on the discussion but went right in the for
the attack.

>B.O.,
> What brings you away from alt.misc.alternative, your assigned
>place?

Well Chris since you allowed the imbecile John to wander all over the
place, I go where every I want.

> Tell it to a worker that is outside bareback every day all day in
>the sun with no effects over a lifetime.

Chris when I was very young I worked in the fields, no one was
barebacked, then.

This shows how little you really know.

> But I won't speak for Zemplar.

Then don't.

Try to stay away from the fallacies, they are not your friends. You
continued use of fallacies shows the truth about you Chris. and that
truth is not pretty.

[mainframetech]

Well B.O. you have once again showed your lack of knowledge on the
topic. Apparently in the town where you worked in the fields, they
didn't take off their shirts. Means nothing if you weren't in the
areas I saw. I spent years in the south of the U.S. and saw many
people doing exactly what I said, including some who worked at sea for
days at a time in the sun, making trip after trip, and spoke with
those people as well. You need to hone your logic skills so you don't
get caught in those foolish statements.

I have no problem with you going all over the place, but since you
rarely come around here, I wondered, which you have so far been unable
to satisfy. I also don't 'allow' anyone to 'wander all over the
place', we all have the right based on the rules set up and I don't
monitor their comings and goings. I would suggest that you are
following some individual that brings you here, yes, no?

Now are you able to supply links to support your statement that

"There are several published articles dealing with Vitamin D overdose

and heart disease and death."? Obviously there are many dealing with
overdose, but how many can you point to that suggest that the D
overdose caused death/heart disease? The way you mixed them up in
your statement sounds fishy to me. It sounded like you were saying
there are articles that mention overdose, and some that mention death
unrelated to D overdose, and heart disease, also unrelated to overdose
of D. Can you straighten that out for us?

Thanks.

Chris

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 18, 10:50 am, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> You are so stupid you are going back where you belong in the
> killfile. You are not worth the electrons to download what you write.

He who laughs last, laughs best. :)

Science Psychos can be that way if they want to, but I am getting the
benefits of supplementing with vitamin D while THEY are NOT, or not
unless they are a bunch of closet natural health advocates.

The very first hour long video that I watched on vitamin D, told me
what the maximum safe dosage was. Since then the recommended blood
levels and dosages of vitamin D has gone higher and ever higher.

Use all the scare tactics that you want to Science Psychos cause I am
getting the benefits of vitamin D, while you are NOT. :)

I believe in using the brain that god gave me, and I am more than
capable of thinking for myself, thank you.

Every time Science Psychos have a public Kissy Fit, I know that people
like Bob Officer are extremely jealous of the fact that time has
proven my health position CORRECT and theirs laughably WRONG.

Nothing wrong with your killfile Bob, it is your brain cause I have
NOT changed my email address since April 2007. Anybody like you who
hangs out in misc.health.alternative is a self-proven moron by their
own actions, anyhow.

[mainframetech]

John,
B.O. has been stationed in misc.health.alternative for some time
now. He and friends of his spend a good deal of time protecting and
defending prescription drugs and spend almost NO time offering any
supplements or vitamins in their place. It has been suggested that
they are drug industry shills paid to hang out in forums that deal
with alternative compounds and make it difficult for anyone to get any
information without constant argument and disruption. None of that
can be proved to my knowledge, but that's what some folks say. If it
were true, it would explain some things.

Chris

[Pendrag0n]

I doubt the bottom feeders are that smart. Any excuse and all that.

[Jason]

In article
<544f2a20-0e6f-41ec...@p12g2000vbm.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Aug 19, 9:39=A0am, "John H. Gohde" <john.h.go...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > On Aug 18, 10:50=A0am, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> >
> > > You are so stupid you are going back where you belong in the
> > > killfile. You are not worth the electrons to download what you write.
> >

> > He who laughs last, laughs best. =A0:)

> >
> > Science Psychos can be that way if they want to, but I am getting the
> > benefits of supplementing with vitamin D while THEY are NOT, or not
> > unless they are a bunch of closet natural health advocates.
> >
> > The very first hour long video that I watched on vitamin D, told me

> > what the maximum safe dosage was. =A0Since then the recommended blood

> > levels and dosages of vitamin D has gone higher and ever higher.
> >
> > Use all the scare tactics that you want to Science Psychos cause I am
> > getting the benefits of vitamin D, while you are NOT. :)
> >
> > I believe in using the brain that god gave me, and I am more than
> > capable of thinking for myself, thank you.
> >
> > Every time Science Psychos have a public Kissy Fit, I know that people
> > like Bob Officer are extremely jealous of the fact that time has
> > proven my health position CORRECT and theirs laughably WRONG.
> >
> > Nothing wrong with your killfile Bob, it is your brain cause I have

> > NOT changed my email address since April 2007. =A0Anybody like you who

> > hangs out in misc.health.alternative is a self-proven moron by their
> > own actions, anyhow.
>
> John,
> B.O. has been stationed in misc.health.alternative for some time
> now. He and friends of his spend a good deal of time protecting and
> defending prescription drugs and spend almost NO time offering any
> supplements or vitamins in their place. It has been suggested that
> they are drug industry shills paid to hang out in forums that deal
> with alternative compounds and make it difficult for anyone to get any
> information without constant argument and disruption. None of that
> can be proved to my knowledge, but that's what some folks say. If it
> were true, it would explain some things.
>
> Chris

Chris,
Thanks. I did not know that information.
I believe that you are correct about at least some of the people in
newsgroups that attacks anyone that mentions supplements. I had an
experience with one such person in the diabetes newsgroup. That's the
reason I did not visit that newsgroup for over a year. It's possible that
he also worked for a drug company. I did not realize it at the time. It
makes sense that drug companies would hire such people. The end goal of
the drug companies is to make the use of supplements illegal. They have
supporters in both houses of Congress that may succeed in making the use
of most supplements--illegal.

jason

jason

[Jason]

In article <ub1238lsvhv439suj...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

Consider this--they may appear to be not smart but in fact they are very
smart. It's like when Tom Hanks played Forest Gump. Tom Hanks appeared to
be stupid but in fact is very smart.
jason

[Bob Officer]

Silver Screen Award for All Around Cluelessness goes to jason. Not
being able to tell the difference between a person playing the role
of a fictional character and the real person shows a certain lack of
credibility.

We had a bunch of idiots like you which elected a governor based upon
the roles he played in movies, then went on to elect him to be
president of the united states.

[Bob Officer]

By that same standard, Chris, it has been said you are a jackass
which likes to pretend you are smarter than what you really are, and
that are a paid shill for the snake oil sales. None of that

can be proved to my knowledge, but that's what some folks say. If

it were true, it would explain a great many things.

[Jason]

In article <jmi238tg5fehusj02...@4ax.com>, Bob Officer <.@.>

He probably won since he had lots of money and name recognition. His
opponents were not able to compete.

[Bob Officer]

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 13:51:48 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

The lack of the ability for the electorate to separate a fictional
character played by an actor and the person playing the role an
understood phenomena.

[mainframetech]

B.O.,

So you have now brought yourself down to my level...LOL! Do you
find it uncomfortable? I don't...:)

Chris

[mainframetech]

On Aug 19, 4:26 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:
> On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 12:50:01 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,
>
>
>
>
>
> Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:

> >In article <ub1238lsvhv439sujsmmjlifq4k6nq8...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

> Message-ID: <5Mfbp.11718$gM3.10...@viwinnwfe01.internal.bigpond.com>


So an ad hominem attack is your response. What about what drew you
here? The question is outstanding. As usual, you provide little or
no useful information. Did you follow someone here to harass them, or
what?

Chris

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 19, 4:26 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:

> We had a bunch of idiots like you which elected a governor based upon
> the roles he played in movies, then went on to elect him to be
> president of the united states.

[Pablo]

http://tinyurl.com/839aqb3

[Jason]

In article <trn23852h65olee7l...@4ax.com>, Bob Officer <.@.>

Obama may win for that same reason. He has far more name recognition than
Romney. He also has the liberal news media and rich people from Hollywood
on his side.

[Bob Officer]

The tables are turned, so to speak. Do you see how your own logic
failed? This is a common teachers exercise, when they see students
committing the fallacies you seem to fall back upon.

Rumor has it...


--
Bob Officer
"Personally, I was NEVER dumb enough to come down with cancer.
And, I am smart enough, NOT to get it in the future."
John H Gohde stating that intelligence and cancer is somehow, linked.
While he goes showing he really isn't as smart or intelligent as he
believes.

[Bob Officer]

Your pet idiot, Gohde is busy trolling/cross posting again.

[Bob Officer]

On Sun, 19 Aug 2012 17:18:37 -0700, in misc.health.alternative,

Mitt and Ryan will have the 1/2 of the 1% which has 99.5% of the
wealth in this country.

Remember corporations are people, now.
We will have the best government the corporations can buy.

[John H. Gohde]

On Aug 19, 8:35 pm, Bob Officer <.@.> wrote:

> Your pet idiot, Gohde is busy trolling/cross posting again.

I am looking at a true "calcium deficient idiot."

[Pendrag0n]

It did not make any difference anyway apparently, apart from feeding
pedants like yourself. Not pretty.

[Pendrag0n]

It's what trolls do, they have no interest in the subject matter. Any
excuse and all that.