Warning on Drugs for Diabetics or Those with Kidney Disease

[mainframetech]

From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012
Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety
Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication

Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - New
Warning and Contraindication
including:
• Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, and
hydrochlorothiazide)
• Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
• Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothiazide)
• Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
• Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturna will no
longer be marketed after July 2012

AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology

ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risks when
using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with other drugs
called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and
angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabetes or
kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not be used
(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition, avoid
use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate to
severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration rate [GFR]
< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being updated
based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, “Aliskiren Trial in
Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).”
BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high blood
pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.
RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in
patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk of renal
impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of aliskiren with
ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 60 mL/min.
Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to your
healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can cause
problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not treated.
See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a list of ACEI
and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthcare
professionals and patients.


Chris

[Pendrag0n]

On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
<mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

>From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012
>Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety
>Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
>
>Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - New
>Warning and Contraindication
>including:
>• Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, and
>hydrochlorothiazide)
>• Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
>• Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothiazide)
>• Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
>• Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturna will no
>longer be marketed after July 2012

Never heard of any of them!

>AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
>
>ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risks when
>using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with other drugs
>called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and
>angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabetes or
>kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not be used
>(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition, avoid
>use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate to
>severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration rate [GFR]
>< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being updated
>based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, “Aliskiren Trial in
>Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).”
>BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high blood
>pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.
>RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in
>patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk of renal
>impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of aliskiren with
>ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 60 mL/min.
>Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to your
>healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can cause
>problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not treated.
>See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a list of ACEI
>and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthcare
>professionals and patients.

Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE as well? We
already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination any more.

CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk

As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from 150mg to
300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at the same
time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidine. What is
quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan has done
nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop it all
together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or 5 weeks to
kick in fully, but doubt that would apply to increasing the dosage?

[mainframetech]

On Apr 22, 2:47 am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
>

I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result. It didn't seem
to do much. I then tried diovan, but it was too costly here in the
USA. I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which as it turns
out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney disease for
some reason. That seems to be true in my experience.

Chris

[Pendrag0n]

Yes Lisinopril was good for me too. Though the most damaging to
kidneys. I stopped mine in 2010 as you may recall. I do remember yo
struggled, but I think yours was a faint hearted attempt :)

[Jason]

In article
<6c468834-dbf9-4aac...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On Apr 22, 2:47=A0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
> >
> > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012
> > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety
> > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >
> > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - New
> > >Warning and Contraindication
> > >including:

> > >=95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, and
> > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > >=95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
> > >=95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothiazide)
> > >=95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
> > >=95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturna will no

> > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >
> > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risks when
> > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with other drugs
> > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and
> > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabetes or
> > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not be used
> > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition, avoid
> > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate to
> > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration rate [GFR]
> > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being updated

> > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =93Aliskiren Trial in
> > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).=94

> > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high blood
> > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.
> > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in
> > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk of renal
> > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of aliskiren with
> > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 60 mL/min.
> > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to your
> > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can cause
> > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not treated.
> > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a list of ACEI
> > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthcare
> > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE as well? We
> > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination any more.
> >
> > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from 150mg to
> > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at the same
> > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidine. What is
> > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan has done
> > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop it all
> > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or 5 weeks to

> > kick in fully, but =A0doubt that would apply to increasing the dosage?

>
> I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result. It didn't seem
> to do much. I then tried diovan, but it was too costly here in the
> USA. I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which as it turns
> out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney disease for
> some reason. That seems to be true in my experience.
>
> Chris

I hope that you have success. My BP is usually under control due to
clonidine but on occassion does rise far above normal. I believe that in
my case it is due to stressful situations that causes my body to produce
huge amounts of adrenaline. I do have anxiety due to being in a prefession
for over 28 years were my life was on the line every work day. I saw a
television show about some cops breaking to the home of a drug dealer. I
felt sorry for all of those cops since I know that at least some of them
will end up with high levels of anxiety. They will have it even after they
are retired. People with anxiety usually end up with heart disease since
the adrenaline puts extra stress on their hearts. I have heart disease.

Jason

[Devils Advocaat]

On Apr 22, 9:42 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article
> <6c468834-dbf9-4aac-92c2-d5e79d756...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,

Are you still in that job?

[Devils Advocaat]

I was on lisinopril and amlodipine to regulate my blood pressure.

But soon after starting dialysis I was taken off both of them.

Dialysis can help regulate blood pressure.

And watching fluid intake helps too.

My blood pressure is always in the normal range now.

[Jason]

In article
<1bf6dc20-5926-4b73...@d4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 22, 9:42=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article
> > <6c468834-dbf9-4aac-92c2-d5e79d756...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > On Apr 22, 2:47=3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
> >
> > > > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > > > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safet=

> y
> > > > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >
> > > > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - New
> > > > >Warning and Contraindication
> > > > >including:

> > > > >=3D95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, and
> > > > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > >=3D95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
> > > > >=3D95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > >=3D95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
> > > > >=3D95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturna will=

> no
> > > > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > > > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> > > > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >
> > > > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risks when
> > > > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with other drugs
> > > > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and
> > > > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabetes or

> > > > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not be use=

> d
> > > > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition, avoid
> > > > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate to

> > > > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration rate [GFR=

> ]
> > > > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being updated

> > > > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =3D93Aliskiren Tria=
> l in
> > > > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).=3D94

> > > > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high blood
> > > > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.
> > > > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in

> > > > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk of ren=
> al
> > > > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of aliskiren wi=
> th
> > > > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 60 mL/mi=

> n.
> > > > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to your
> > > > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can cause
> > > > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not treated.

> > > > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a list of AC=

> EI
> > > > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthcare
> > > > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > > > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE as well? We
> > > > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination any more.
> >
> > > > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > > > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from 150mg to
> > > > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at the same
> > > > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidine. What is
> > > > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan has done
> > > > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop it all
> > > > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or 5 weeks to

> > > > kick in fully, but =3DA0doubt that would apply to increasing the dosa=
> ge?
> >
> > > =A0 =A0I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result. =A0It didn't =
> seem
> > > to do much. =A0I then tried diovan, but it was too costly here in the
> > > USA. =A0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which as it turns

> > > out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney disease for

> > > some reason. =A0That seems to be true in my experience.

> >
> > > Chris
> >
> > I hope that you have success. My BP is usually under control due to
> > clonidine but on occassion does rise far above normal. I believe that in
> > my case it is due to stressful situations that causes my body to produce

> > huge amounts of adrenaline. I do have anxiety due to being in a prefessio=

> n
> > for over 28 years were my life was on the line every work day. I saw a
> > television show about some cops breaking to the home of a drug dealer. I
> > felt sorry for all of those cops since I know that at least some of them

> > will end up with high levels of anxiety. They will have it even after the=

> y
> > are retired. People with anxiety usually end up with heart disease since
> > the adrenaline puts extra stress on their hearts. I have heart disease.
> >
> > Jason
>
> Are you still in that job?

I retired 6 years ago. Many people that are cops or have high stress jobs
die before the age of 70 years old since the adrenaline does great harm to
their hearts. I saw a woman being interviewed on a television show. She
had about 6 young children. I also felt sorry for her. She had a major
case of anxiety due to taking care of 6 littled kids 24-7. She had all of
the signs of anxiety.

[Pendrag0n]

I wonder how that works! As I understand in, in my case, my kidney is
clogging up with dead antibodies which is causing the high BP and thus
tearing/scarring of the kidney. Mind you I guess if dialysis is taking
out the antibodies then that's why. Hmmm interesting.

[Devils Advocaat]

On Apr 29, 10:35 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <1bf6dc20-5926-4b73-a675-488fa0063...@d4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, Devils

So any anxiety that you suffered during your job should not be
affecting you now.

And popping pills doesn't remove the root cause of the anxiety.

I suggest you make an appointment to see a psychologist.

Get to the root cause of this anxiety you are still suffering.

And deal with it.

[Devils Advocaat]

If the antibodies are attacking your kidneys then what's happening
with your BP is due to the loss of a specific function of the kidneys,
that being the production of the enzyme renin which is an essential
part of your body's Renin-angiotensin system and helps regulate your
BP under normal circumstances. What is your actual cause of kidney
failure?

[Jason]

In article
<d8677882-acde-43ac...@m7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On Apr 29, 10:35=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article

> > <1bf6dc20-5926-4b73-a675-488fa0063...@d4g2000vbn.googlegroups.com>, Devil=
> s
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On Apr 22, 9:42=3DA0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > > In article
> > > > <6c468834-dbf9-4aac-92c2-d5e79d756...@dc2g2000vbb.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > > mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> > > > > On Apr 22, 2:47=3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
> >
> > > > > > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > > > > > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug S=
> afet=3D

> > > y
> > > > > > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >
> > > > > > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - New
> > > > > > >Warning and Contraindication
> > > > > > >including:

> > > > > > >=3D3D95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, =
> and
> > > > > > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > > > >=3D3D95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
> > > > > > >=3D3D95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothia=
> zide)
> > > > > > >=3D3D95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
> > > > > > >=3D3D95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturn=
> a will=3D
> > > =A0no

> > > > > > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > > > > > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> > > > > > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >

> > > > > > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risks w=
> hen
> > > > > > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with other d=

> rugs
> > > > > > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and

> > > > > > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabetes o=
> r
> > > > > > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not be=
> use=3D
> > > d
> > > > > > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition, av=

> oid
> > > > > > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate to

> > > > > > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration rate =
> [GFR=3D
> > > ]
> > > > > > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being updat=
> ed
> > > > > > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =3D3D93Aliskire=
> n Tria=3D
> > > l in
> > > > > > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).=3D3D94
> > > > > > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high bl=

> ood
> > > > > > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.

> > > > > > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs =
> in
> > > > > > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk of=
> ren=3D
> > > al
> > > > > > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of aliskire=
> n wi=3D
> > > th
> > > > > > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 60 m=
> L/mi=3D
> > > n.
> > > > > > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to you=

> r
> > > > > > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can cause

> > > > > > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not treat=
> ed.
> > > > > > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a list o=
> f AC=3D

> > > EI
> > > > > > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthcare
> > > > > > >professionals and patients.
> >

> > > > > > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE as well=

> ? We
> > > > > > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination any more.
> >
> > > > > > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >

> > > > > > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from 150mg t=
> o
> > > > > > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at the sam=
> e
> > > > > > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidine. Wha=

> t is
> > > > > > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan has done
> > > > > > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop it all

> > > > > > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or 5 week=
> s to
> > > > > > kick in fully, but =3D3DA0doubt that would apply to increasing th=
> e dosa=3D
> > > ge?
> >
> > > > > =3DA0 =3DA0I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result. =3DA0=
> It didn't =3D
> > > seem
> > > > > to do much. =3DA0I then tried diovan, but it was too costly here in=
> the
> > > > > USA. =3DA0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which as it t=

> urns
> > > > > out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney disease for

> > > > > some reason. =3DA0That seems to be true in my experience.

> >
> > > > > Chris
> >
> > > > I hope that you have success. My BP is usually under control due to

> > > > clonidine but on occassion does rise far above normal. I believe that=
> in
> > > > my case it is due to stressful situations that causes my body to prod=
> uce
> > > > huge amounts of adrenaline. I do have anxiety due to being in a prefe=
> ssio=3D
> > > n
> > > > for over 28 years were my life was on the line every work day. I saw =
> a
> > > > television show about some cops breaking to the home of a drug dealer=
> . I
> > > > felt sorry for all of those cops since I know that at least some of t=
> hem
> > > > will end up with high levels of anxiety. They will have it even after=
> the=3D
> > > y
> > > > are retired. People with anxiety usually end up with heart disease si=
> nce
> > > > the adrenaline puts extra stress on their hearts. I have heart diseas=

> e.
> >
> > > > Jason
> >
> > > Are you still in that job?
> >
> > I retired 6 years ago.
>
> So any anxiety that you suffered during your job should not be
> affecting you now.
>
> And popping pills doesn't remove the root cause of the anxiety.
>
> I suggest you make an appointment to see a psychologist.
>
> Get to the root cause of this anxiety you are still suffering.
>
> And deal with it.
>
> > Many people that are cops or have high stress jobs

> > die before the age of 70 years old since the adrenaline does great harm t=

> o
> > their hearts. I saw a woman being interviewed on a television show. She
> > had about 6 young children. I also felt sorry for her. She had a major
> > case of anxiety due to taking care of 6 littled kids 24-7. She had all of
> > the signs of anxiety.

I read a book about anxiety. The author of the book clearly stated that
once a person develops anxiety--it does NOT just go away as a result of
taking pills or seeing a psychologist. The people that have it have to
learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type 1
diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease. For example, I
learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I can now
easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations. Many people that
have anxiety don't know how to do it so end up staying home 24-7. I still
worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or developing
kidney failure. It's difficult for people that have anxiety to keep from
over-worrying about medical problems or various other things. One lady
that was interviewed that had anxiety said that she spent many hours each
day worried about her child that was in college. People that don't have
anxiety don't seem to over-worry about their medical problems or their
children.

jason

[Pendrag0n]

http://www.igansupport.org/faqs.html
What is IgA Nephropathy?
Think of your kidneys as small but powerful filtration plants whose
job is to keep your blood clean and the body’s chemical balance
maintained. Each day the kidneys process about 200 quarts of fluid
through their two million tiny treatment plans, the nephrons. Within
the nephron is the glomerulus, a tangle of fine capillaries that
filter the blood before passing it on to the tubules, where the
kidneys continually adjust the filtrate to your body’s needs, adding
back chemicals removed during filtration or drawing off more water.
What’s needed by the body is returned to the bloodstream; what’s not
needed is excreted as urine.

In IgA Nephropathy [IgAN], unknown agents cause the glomeruli to
become — and to stay — inflamed. IgAN is the world’s most common
glomerulonephritis [inflammation of the glomeruli], but its
pathogenesis [how the disease develops] is not known. IgAN is
considered to be an immune-complex mediated disorder (or
immunologically mediated disorder), which means that immune complexes
may not be the direct cause of the disease but they help bring about
the end result, which is widespread inflammation of the kidneys.

Immune complexes form when the body is exposed to an antigen, such as
a virus, bacteria, toxin, or even allergen. In response, your body
sends out antibodies, which are immunoglobulins produced by a certain
class of white blood cells known as B-cells. There are five main
classes of these immunoglobulins, with IgA [immunoglobulin A] being
the main one directed against bacterial and viral antigens.

Antibodies lock onto the surfaces of viruses and other foreign cells,
producing antigen-antibody aggregates known as immune complexes that
your body targets and attacks. Normally, these immune complexes
circulate through the bloodstream until being removed by the liver and
other organs. In IgAN, however, they become trapped in the glomeruli.

Once trapped, immune complexes become like magnets for the rest of the
body’s immune response. Macrophages and other cells race to the area
to release enzymes and generate toxic oxygen radicals that kill
bacteria and viruses but also injure local tissues. Trapped immune
complexes can also stimulate the overproduction of extracellular
matrix, a substance which surrounds and supports tissue cells.
Inflammatory chemicals released during the immune response increase
the permeability of the glomerular capillary walls, causing blood
being filtered in the kidneys to leak protein and fibrinogen.
Fibrinogen, crucial to the process by which blood clots, develops into
"crescents," which form scar tissue that obstructs circulation through
the glomerulus. Eventually, deprived of blood, the tubules and
glomerulus die, thus destroying the nephron and forcing other nephrons
to take up its work.

What happens in IgAN is essentially a vicious cycle: inflammatory
chemicals increase the permeability of the glomerular capillary wall,
and that increased porosity enhances the absorption of other chemicals
that stimulate cellular growth and, ultimately, structural damage.
These changes take time because our kidneys have a lot of excess
capacity built into them. The damage is, however, slowly progressive
and, in the case of sclerosis [scarring], irreversible.

We do not know what antigen is responsible for triggering IgAN, nor do
we know whether IgAN results from defects in the body’s creation or
elimination of immune complexes. There is evidence that immunoglobulin
A is overproduced in the bone marrow of IgAN patients; some patients
also show decreased capacity to remove immune complexes from their
systems.

Because so many IgAN patients have a cold or gastrointestinal illness
shortly before the onset of symptoms in the kidneys, it is likely that
IgAN starts with an immune response to infectious agents. Perhaps
protracted exposure to antigens — as in a recurrent viral illness, or
the multiple illnesses experienced by some IgAN patients — sends the
immune system into overdrive. The blood of IgAN patients often shows
high concentrations of IgA antibodies to a type of protein found in
many bacteria, as well as antibodies to many viruses. Certain viruses,
once established in the body as a low-level chronic infection, could
serve as a continuing source of antigen for the formation of
additional IgA immune complexes — and for the perpetuation of injury
to the kidneys. It is quite common for IgAN to present after an
individual has had an illness such as strep throat, ear infection,
etc., that was treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are effective
against bacteria but not against viruses and can even suppress the
immune system as far as viral infections are concerned, perhaps
allowing a viral infection to become chronic.

Viruses can also over-sensitize the immune system, inducing autoimmune
reactions in which the body becomes allergic to itself. Few IgAN
patients, however, show a positive anti-nuclear antibody test [ANA],
which is an important tool in diagnosing such autoimmune diseases as
systemic lupus erythematosus.

It’s clear that IgAN is not simply a kidney disease but rather an
immunological disorder that affects the kidneys, as diabetes is an
immunological disorder that affects the pancreas. It may also be a
disease, like diabetes, that affects the micro blood vessels. If true,
this would explain some common extra-renal symptoms, such as
headaches, temporary vision problems, and difficulties concentrating.

[Devils Advocaat]

On Apr 30, 9:37 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <d8677882-acde-43ac-abbc-cabf07ec3...@m7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>, Devils

I never said it would just go away.

Pills only benefit the pharmaceutical companies.

Just seeing a psychologist obviously won't make it just go away.

But I never suggested that, as you would know.

If you'd read and understood my post before responding.

You would have realised I was suggesting a proper course of therapy.

> The people that have it have to
> learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type 1
> diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.

Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
chronic health problem.

> For example, I
> learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I can now
> easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations.

Okay, under what circumstances do you experience panic attacks?

And while you're at it, describe your panic attack symptoms.

> Many people that
> have anxiety don't know how to do it so end up staying home 24-7.

Care to support that statement?

> I still
> worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or developing
> kidney failure.

So that book isn't actually helping you.

> It's difficult for people that have anxiety to keep from
> over-worrying about medical problems or various other things.

Balderdash.

Anxieties take different forms depending on the root cause.

Only ignorant people worry over things they can't control.

> One lady
> that was interviewed that had anxiety said that she spent many hours each
> day worried about her child that was in college. People that don't have
> anxiety don't  seem to over-worry about their medical problems or their
> children.
>
> jason

Now just over a year ago (March 2011) I had a pathological needle
phobia.

With the help of my renal psychologist I overcame and defeated that
phobia in less than six months.

No drugs, just therapy, some of it initially was overwhelming.

But it helped me get inside my own head.

Dig out the root cause, confront it and defeat it.

[Jason]

> > I read a book about anxiety. The author of the book clearly stated that
> > once a person develops anxiety--it does NOT just go away as a result of
> > taking pills or seeing a psychologist.
>
> I never said it would just go away.
>
> Pills only benefit the pharmaceutical companies.

Yes, but pills such as Xanax can help people to sleep since it causes
people to stop worryings and as a result helps them to go to sleep. My
neighbor takes Xanax and she said that it does help her to relax and stop
worrying and as a result helps her to go to sleep.

>
> Just seeing a psychologist obviously won't make it just go away.
>
> But I never suggested that, as you would know.
>
> If you'd read and understood my post before responding.
>
> You would have realised I was suggesting a proper course of therapy.

I attended a anx. support group and a couselor ran the group. It did not
help me but may have helped some of the people that were in that group.

>
> > The people that have it have to
> > learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type 1
> > diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.
>
> Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
> chronic health problem.

That's correct.

>
> > For example, I
> > learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I can now
> > easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations.
>
> Okay, under what circumstances do you experience panic attacks?

I don't like large crowds or to be surrounded by people. In those
situations, I usually find a seat in the back on the end of a row. That
means I can quickly and easily exit--if a crisis happens. I would not fly
on a plane since there is no way to escape if there is a crisis--you are
trapped. I don't mind getting on elevators but lots of people that have
anx. would never get on an elevator since they feel trapped. I read about
one lady that was afraid to cross any bridges since they may collapse. Her
psychologist said she had dozens of news reports about bridges that had
collapsed. I don't worry about bridges collapsing.

>
> And while you're at it, describe your panic attack symptoms.

It causes me to stop breathing. I now do controlled breathing when I feel
an panic attack coming on. My sister fainted in a similar situation. It
was because she had stopped breathing for several minutes.

>
> > Many people that
> > have anxiety don't know how to do it so end up staying home 24-7.
>
> Care to support that statement?

Google: agoraphobia. It means "the fear of being in public places".
According to my anx. book--when such people are in public places--they
usually have:
heart palpitations
nervousness
dizziness
difficulty breathing
"During a panic attack, there is an urgency to "get out" and go somewhere
where you feel safe."

Google: "post-tramatic stress disorder". Lots of soldiers that have been
in combat suffer from it--even after they are discharged from the
military.

A famous baseball player named Aubrey Huss (according to today's
newspaper) was just placed on the 15 day disabled list this week with
anxiety disorder. The newspaper story said that 40 million American adults
suffer from anxiety disorder.

>
> > I still
> > worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or developing
> > kidney failure.
>
> So that book isn't actually helping you.

Yes, it did help me to understand anxiety disorder and to keep from having
panic attacks in stressful situtation.

>
> > It's difficult for people that have anxiety to keep from
> > over-worrying about medical problems or various other things.
>
> Balderdash.
>
> Anxieties take different forms depending on the root cause.
>
> Only ignorant people worry over things they can't control.
>
> > One lady
> > that was interviewed that had anxiety said that she spent many hours each
> > day worried about her child that was in college. People that don't have

> > anxiety don't =A0seem to over-worry about their medical problems or their

> > children.
> >
> > jason
>
> Now just over a year ago (March 2011) I had a pathological needle
> phobia.
>
> With the help of my renal psychologist I overcame and defeated that
> phobia in less than six months.
>
> No drugs, just therapy, some of it initially was overwhelming.
>
> But it helped me get inside my own head.
>
> Dig out the root cause, confront it and defeat it.

Even when the root cause is known (such as a soldier being in combat or a
cop being in many different life-threating situations) the anxiety
continues to be a problem for the rest of their lives.

Do some research on post-tramatic stress disorder if you don't believe me.
Lots of research has been done on that type of anxiety disorder.

At one time (probably for money related reasons) the military refused to
believe that post-tramatic stress was an official disorder that the
Veteran's Hospitals needed to treat. They now consider it to be an
official disorder so they do treat patients that suffer from post-tramatic
stress disorder.

I don't expect people that don't suffer from anxiety or post tramatic
stress disorder to have any compassion for people that have those
disorders.

When I was a child and young adult, I had very little compassion for
various people had all sorts of major disorders. However, I now do have
lots of compassion for anyone that has any type of disorder--even
depression or anxiety.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 1, 10:01 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > I read a book about anxiety. The author of the book clearly stated that
> > > once a person develops anxiety--it does NOT just go away as a result of
> > > taking pills or seeing a psychologist.
>
> > I never said it would just go away.
>
> > Pills only benefit the pharmaceutical companies.
>
> Yes, but pills such as Xanax can help people to sleep since it causes
> people to stop worryings and as a result helps them to go to sleep. My
> neighbor takes Xanax and she said that it does help her to relax and stop
> worrying and as a result helps her to go to sleep.
>

But as I've already said, pills don't get rid of the anxiety.

So in the long term taking pills only benefits the pharmaceutical
company that makes them.

>
> > Just seeing a psychologist obviously won't make it just go away.
>
> > But I never suggested that, as you would know.
>
> > If you'd read and understood my post before responding.
>
> > You would have realised I was suggesting a proper course of therapy.
>
> I attended a anx. support group and a couselor ran the group. It did not
> help me but may have helped some of the people that were in that group.
>

A support group run by a counsellor is not the same as seeing a
psychologist and receiving individual therapy.

In fact support groups are, in my opinion, counter productive, as they
throw a whole load of people together who may appear to have the same
problem, but each one has a different root cause to discover, and in
such a group that rarely happens.

>
> > > The people that have it have to
> > > learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type 1
> > > diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.
>
> > Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
> > chronic health problem.
>
> That's correct.
>

Yet you suggested otherwise in your previous post.

>
> > > For example, I
> > > learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I can now
> > > easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations.
>
> > Okay, under what circumstances do you experience panic attacks?
>
> I don't like large crowds or to be surrounded by people.

I had the same problem, I knew the root cause, and when I started work
in my first job, I found a way to deal with it.

I found the busiest pub, what you Americans would call a bar, I'd go
in it while it was quiet, and as it got busier I would see how long I
could cope with the crowds. Each time I did this t got easier and
easier to handle being in such a crowded place. Within six months
being in a crowd anywhere never bothered me, and crowds still don't
bother me to this day.

> In those
> situations, I usually find a seat in the back on the end of a row. That
> means I can quickly and easily exit--if a crisis happens. I would not fly
> on a plane since there is no way to escape if there is a crisis--you are
> trapped. I don't mind getting on elevators but lots of people that have
> anx. would never get on an elevator since they feel trapped. I read about
> one lady that was afraid to cross any bridges since they may collapse. Her
> psychologist said she had dozens of news reports about bridges that had
> collapsed. I don't worry about bridges collapsing.
>
>
>
> > And while you're at it, describe your panic attack symptoms.
>
> It causes me to stop breathing. I now do controlled breathing when I feel
> an panic attack coming on. My sister fainted in a similar situation. It
> was because she had stopped breathing for several minutes.
>

So all you have is trouble breathing when you have a panic attack?

Sounds more like anxiety triggered asthma.

I've had panic attacks before.

My heart would pound fit to bust, my breathing was rapid and shallow,
I felt absolutely terrified.

If I was outside when it hit, I would feel the urge to get indoors,
but couldn't move.

If I was indoors, I would feel the urge to get outside, and again
couldn't move.

When, with the help of my GP I worked out the root cause, the panic
attacks vanished almost immediately.

>
> > > Many people that
> > > have anxiety don't know how to do it so end up staying home 24-7.
>
> > Care to support that statement?
>
> Google: agoraphobia. It means "the fear of being in public places".
> According to my anx. book--when such people are in public places--they
> usually have:
> heart palpitations
> nervousness
> dizziness
> difficulty breathing
> "During a panic attack, there is an urgency to "get out" and go somewhere
> where you feel safe."
>
> Google: "post-tramatic stress disorder". Lots of soldiers that have been
> in combat suffer from it--even after they are discharged from the
> military.
>
> A famous baseball player named Aubrey Huss (according to today's
> newspaper) was just placed on the 15 day disabled list this week with
> anxiety disorder. The newspaper story said that 40 million American adults
> suffer from anxiety disorder.
>

Note well, he's on a 15 day disabled list.

Think about what that means.

He will get personal therapy.

And his anxiety will be either under control, without drugs.

Or t will be completely eliminated.

>
> > > I still
> > > worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or developing
> > > kidney failure.
>
> > So that book isn't actually helping you.
>
> Yes, it did help me to understand anxiety disorder and to keep from having
> panic attacks in stressful situtation.

But it hasn't helped eliminate the root cause of your anxiety.

You obviously haven't aid much attention to what I've said about
myself.

>
> When I was a child and young adult, I had very little compassion for
> various people had all sorts of major disorders. However, I now do have
> lots of compassion for anyone that has any type of disorder--even
> depression or anxiety.

Are you sure it's compassion you feel?

Compassion compels an individual to help someone who is in difficulty.

That compassionate person doesn't need to have personal experience of
what the other person is gong through.

What you feel might only be sympathy.

Because you have some idea of what they're going through.

[Jason]

> I attended a anx. support group and a couselor ran the group. It did not
> > help me but may have helped some of the people that were in that group.
> >
> A support group run by a counsellor is not the same as seeing a
> psychologist and receiving individual therapy.

I see a local psychiatrist once per month. It has not helped the anxiety
to go away. She appeared to be a drug pusher since she is always trying to
get me to take the lastest anxiety and depression drugs.

>
> In fact support groups are, in my opinion, counter productive, as they
> throw a whole load of people together who may appear to have the same
> problem, but each one has a different root cause to discover, and in
> such a group that rarely happens.

It was a waste of my time to attend that support group.

> >
> > > > The people that have it have to

> > > > learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type=

> 1
> > > > diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.
> >
> > > Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
> > > chronic health problem.
> >
> > That's correct.
> >
> Yet you suggested otherwise in your previous post.

You missed the point. My point was that anxiety needs to be treated and
that health problems also need to be treated.


> >
> > > > For example, I
> > > > learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I can no=

> w
> > > > easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations.
> >
> > > Okay, under what circumstances do you experience panic attacks?
> >
> > I don't like large crowds or to be surrounded by people.
>
> I had the same problem, I knew the root cause, and when I started work
> in my first job, I found a way to deal with it.
>
> I found the busiest pub, what you Americans would call a bar, I'd go
> in it while it was quiet, and as it got busier I would see how long I
> could cope with the crowds. Each time I did this t got easier and
> easier to handle being in such a crowded place. Within six months
> being in a crowd anywhere never bothered me, and crowds still don't
> bother me to this day.
>
> > In those
> > situations, I usually find a seat in the back on the end of a row. That
> > means I can quickly and easily exit--if a crisis happens. I would not fly
> > on a plane since there is no way to escape if there is a crisis--you are
> > trapped. I don't mind getting on elevators but lots of people that have
> > anx. would never get on an elevator since they feel trapped. I read about

> > one lady that was afraid to cross any bridges since they may collapse. He=

> r
> > psychologist said she had dozens of news reports about bridges that had
> > collapsed. I don't worry about bridges collapsing.
> >
> >
> >
> > > And while you're at it, describe your panic attack symptoms.
> >
> > It causes me to stop breathing. I now do controlled breathing when I feel
> > an panic attack coming on. My sister fainted in a similar situation. It
> > was because she had stopped breathing for several minutes.
> >
> So all you have is trouble breathing when you have a panic attack?
>
> Sounds more like anxiety triggered asthma.
>
> I've had panic attacks before.
>
> My heart would pound fit to bust, my breathing was rapid and shallow,
> I felt absolutely terrified.
>
> If I was outside when it hit, I would feel the urge to get indoors,
> but couldn't move.
>
> If I was indoors, I would feel the urge to get outside, and again
> couldn't move.
>
> When, with the help of my GP I worked out the root cause, the panic
> attacks vanished almost immediately.

That's great but that does not mean that it will work for everyone. Many
soldiers have post tramatic stress disorder and they know the source
(combat) but guess what? It does NOT go away when they come home from the
military.

> >
> > > > Many people that
> > > > have anxiety don't know how to do it so end up staying home 24-7.
> >
> > > Care to support that statement?
> >
> > Google: agoraphobia. It means "the fear of being in public places".
> > According to my anx. book--when such people are in public places--they
> > usually have:
> > heart palpitations
> > nervousness
> > dizziness
> > difficulty breathing
> > "During a panic attack, there is an urgency to "get out" and go somewhere
> > where you feel safe."
> >
> > Google: "post-tramatic stress disorder". Lots of soldiers that have been
> > in combat suffer from it--even after they are discharged from the
> > military.
> >
> > A famous baseball player named Aubrey Huss (according to today's
> > newspaper) was just placed on the 15 day disabled list this week with

> > anxiety disorder. The newspaper story said that 40 million American adult=

> s
> > suffer from anxiety disorder.
> >
> Note well, he's on a 15 day disabled list.
>
> Think about what that means.
>
> He will get personal therapy.
>
> And his anxiety will be either under control, without drugs.
>
> Or t will be completely eliminated.
> >
> > > > I still

> > > > worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or develo=

> ping
> > > > kidney failure.
> >
> > > So that book isn't actually helping you.
> >

> > Yes, it did help me to understand anxiety disorder and to keep from havin=

> g
> > panic attacks in stressful situtation.
>
> But it hasn't helped eliminate the root cause of your anxiety.
> >
> > > > It's difficult for people that have anxiety to keep from
> > > > over-worrying about medical problems or various other things.
> >
> > > Balderdash.
> >
> > > Anxieties take different forms depending on the root cause.
> >
> > > Only ignorant people worry over things they can't control.
> >
> > > > One lady

> > > > that was interviewed that had anxiety said that she spent many hours =
> each
> > > > day worried about her child that was in college. People that don't ha=
> ve
> > > > anxiety don't =3DA0seem to over-worry about their medical problems or=

> their
> > > > children.
> >
> > > > jason
> >
> > > Now just over a year ago (March 2011) I had a pathological needle
> > > phobia.
> >
> > > With the help of my renal psychologist I overcame and defeated that
> > > phobia in less than six months.
> >
> > > No drugs, just therapy, some of it initially was overwhelming.
> >
> > > But it helped me get inside my own head.
> >
> > > Dig out the root cause, confront it and defeat it.
> >
> > Even when the root cause is known (such as a soldier being in combat or a
> > cop being in many different life-threating situations) the anxiety
> > continues to be a problem for the rest of their lives.
> >

> > Do some research on post-tramatic stress disorder if you don't believe me=

> .
> > Lots of research has been done on that type of anxiety disorder.
> >
> > At one time (probably for money related reasons) the military refused to
> > believe that post-tramatic stress was an official disorder that the
> > Veteran's Hospitals needed to treat. They now consider it to be an

> > official disorder so they do treat patients that suffer from post-tramati=

> c
> > stress disorder.
> >
> > I don't expect people that don't suffer from anxiety or post tramatic
> > stress disorder to have any compassion for people that have those
> > disorders.
>
> You obviously haven't aid much attention to what I've said about
> myself.
> >
> > When I was a child and young adult, I had very little compassion for
> > various people had all sorts of major disorders. However, I now do have
> > lots of compassion for anyone that has any type of disorder--even
> > depression or anxiety.
>
> Are you sure it's compassion you feel?
>
> Compassion compels an individual to help someone who is in difficulty.
>
> That compassionate person doesn't need to have personal experience of
> what the other person is gong through.
>
> What you feel might only be sympathy.
>
> Because you have some idea of what they're going through.

Yes, I do. That is why I show them sympathy and compassion and support. I
help my best friend to take care of her 81 year old father--he is totally
disabled due to two bone diseases and a stoke.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 2, 8:42 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > I attended a anx. support group and a couselor ran the group. It did not
> > > help me but may have helped some of the people that were in that group.
>
> > A support group run by a counsellor is not the same as seeing a
> > psychologist and receiving individual therapy.
>
> I see a local psychiatrist once per month. It has not helped the anxiety
> to go away. She appeared to be a drug pusher since she is always trying to
> get me to take the lastest anxiety and depression drugs.
>

Jason, there is a big difference between a psychologist and a
psychiatrist.

And guess what, you found it by going to the wrong one.

>
> > In fact support groups are, in my opinion, counter productive, as they
> > throw a whole load of people together who may appear to have the same
> > problem, but each one has a different root cause to discover, and in
> > such a group that rarely happens.
>
> It was a waste of my time to attend that support group.
>

Two wrong sources for getting help with your anxiety.

Are you seeing a pattern yet?

>
> > > > > The people that have it have to
> > > > > learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have type=
> >  1
> > > > > diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.
>
> > > > Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
> > > > chronic health problem.
>
> > > That's correct.
>
> > Yet you suggested otherwise in your previous post.
>
> You missed the point. My point was that anxiety needs to be treated and
> that health problems also need to be treated.
>

As you have been told before and elsewhere, no one can read your mind.

You have to be very precise in what you post, otherwise people will
get the wrong impression.

You keep missing the point Jason.

I never said anything about anxiety or PTSD just going away when a
person leaves the situation that created it.

But even PTSD can be dealt with in the same way as my phobias and your
mild anxiety.

Get a good psychologist and get a personal therapy regime.

Even if it never goes away completely, the individual is in complete
control again.

Perhaps you should go back to your Bible and read Matthew 5:46-47

[Devils Advocaat]

> allowing a viral infection to become ...
>
> read more »

Thanks for the input on that condition, sounds really nasty, and as
bad as, if not worse than my Polycystic Kidney Disease.

[Pendrag0n]

Nah not so bad. Diagnosed in 1993 and now down to 30% so in the grand
scheme of things I have been lucky so far. The only downside, well
quite a major one, is the fatigue..running on empty all the time aint
no fun. But no pain or real problems to speak of so I have to count my
blessings :)

Polycystic Kidney Disease sounds much worse! Often in the early days
of the original IgAN (not the snotty nosed little dictator run
canadian job we now see that copied it) forum some people complained
of flank pain... I wonder if that was caused by the kidneys becoming
enlarged for some reason along the lines of a cyst but it was not
known at the time? If not I wonder why the pain!

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 2, 11:42 am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 May 2012 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>

Flank pain is a problem with a lot of kidney patients, and is often
due to infection in the kidneys.

In PKD It can also be associated with cysts bleeding or rupturing, and
when that happens you can end up pissing blood (pardon my French).

It happened to me last year after being elbowed in the back by an
impatient passenger trying to get off the bus I was on.

When I got home I had a rather urgent need for the toilet, more so
than I'd had in years.

Standing there I started urinating and it immediately felt wrong,
rather sticky and thick.

I looked down, and saw what appeared to be just blood.

Not so much blood in the urine, as urine in the blood.

So I took myself off to the A&E of the hospital where I was dialysing,
got admitted and remained there for six days.

The longest time I've ever spent in hospital in my 53 years of life.

[Pendrag0n]

Oh dear. Time for a flack jacket in public perhaps? :)

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 2, 1:06 pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Wed, 2 May 2012 04:30:56 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>

With my stomach bulging the way it is, I doubt that a flack jacket
would fit ... lol

[Maya Zuiderweg]

Jason gebruikte zijn klavier om te schrijven :

Hello Jason,
Anxiety does not go away. Anxiety-problems may go away, i.e. one can
learn to handle them (which you do by breathing thru panic-attacks -
for example).
If PTSD or another good defined anxiety disorder is the case: EMDR
might be considered.
Maya

[Jason]

In article
<20807b75-e660-4c42...@m7g2000vbg.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 2, 8:42=A0am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > I attended a anx. support group and a couselor ran the group. It did no=
> t
> > > > help me but may have helped some of the people that were in that grou=
> p.
> >

> > > A support group run by a counsellor is not the same as seeing a
> > > psychologist and receiving individual therapy.
> >
> > I see a local psychiatrist once per month. It has not helped the anxiety

> > to go away. She appeared to be a drug pusher since she is always trying t=

> o
> > get me to take the lastest anxiety and depression drugs.
> >
> Jason, there is a big difference between a psychologist and a
> psychiatrist.
>
> And guess what, you found it by going to the wrong one.
> >
> > > In fact support groups are, in my opinion, counter productive, as they
> > > throw a whole load of people together who may appear to have the same
> > > problem, but each one has a different root cause to discover, and in
> > > such a group that rarely happens.
> >
> > It was a waste of my time to attend that support group.
> >
> Two wrong sources for getting help with your anxiety.
>
> Are you seeing a pattern yet?
> >
> > > > > > The people that have it have to

> > > > > > learn to deal with it in much the same way that people that have =
> type=3D
> > > =A01

> > > > > > diabetes have to learn how to deal with their disease.
> >
> > > > > Dealing with anxiety is not the same as dealing with a long term
> > > > > chronic health problem.
> >
> > > > That's correct.
> >
> > > Yet you suggested otherwise in your previous post.
> >
> > You missed the point. My point was that anxiety needs to be treated and
> > that health problems also need to be treated.
> >
> As you have been told before and elsewhere, no one can read your mind.
>
> You have to be very precise in what you post, otherwise people will
> get the wrong impression.
> >
> > > > > > For example, I

> > > > > > learned from the book how to keep from having panic attacks. I ca=
> n no=3D

> > > w
> > > > > > easily breath my way thru any stress causing situations.
> >
> > > > > Okay, under what circumstances do you experience panic attacks?
> >
> > > > I don't like large crowds or to be surrounded by people.
> >
> > > I had the same problem, I knew the root cause, and when I started work
> > > in my first job, I found a way to deal with it.
> >
> > > I found the busiest pub, what you Americans would call a bar, I'd go
> > > in it while it was quiet, and as it got busier I would see how long I
> > > could cope with the crowds. Each time I did this t got easier and
> > > easier to handle being in such a crowded place. Within six months
> > > being in a crowd anywhere never bothered me, and crowds still don't
> > > bother me to this day.
> >
> > > > In those

> > > > situations, I usually find a seat in the back on the end of a row. Th=
> at
> > > > means I can quickly and easily exit--if a crisis happens. I would not=
> fly
> > > > on a plane since there is no way to escape if there is a crisis--you =
> are
> > > > trapped. I don't mind getting on elevators but lots of people that ha=
> ve
> > > > anx. would never get on an elevator since they feel trapped. I read a=
> bout
> > > > one lady that was afraid to cross any bridges since they may collapse=
> . He=3D
> > > r
> > > > psychologist said she had dozens of news reports about bridges that h=

> ad
> > > > collapsed. I don't worry about bridges collapsing.
> >
> > > > > And while you're at it, describe your panic attack symptoms.
> >

> > > > It causes me to stop breathing. I now do controlled breathing when I =
> feel
> > > > an panic attack coming on. My sister fainted in a similar situation. =

> > > > According to my anx. book--when such people are in public places--the=

> y
> > > > usually have:
> > > > heart palpitations
> > > > nervousness
> > > > dizziness
> > > > difficulty breathing

> > > > "During a panic attack, there is an urgency to "get out" and go somew=

> here
> > > > where you feel safe."
> >

> > > > Google: "post-tramatic stress disorder". Lots of soldiers that have b=

> een
> > > > in combat suffer from it--even after they are discharged from the
> > > > military.
> >
> > > > A famous baseball player named Aubrey Huss (according to today's
> > > > newspaper) was just placed on the 15 day disabled list this week with

> > > > anxiety disorder. The newspaper story said that 40 million American a=
> dult=3D

> > > s
> > > > suffer from anxiety disorder.
> >
> > > Note well, he's on a 15 day disabled list.
> >
> > > Think about what that means.
> >
> > > He will get personal therapy.
> >
> > > And his anxiety will be either under control, without drugs.
> >
> > > Or t will be completely eliminated.
> >
> > > > > > I still

> > > > > > worry far more than most people about having a heart attack or de=
> velo=3D

> > > ping
> > > > > > kidney failure.
> >
> > > > > So that book isn't actually helping you.
> >

> > > > Yes, it did help me to understand anxiety disorder and to keep from h=
> avin=3D

> > > g
> > > > panic attacks in stressful situtation.
> >
> > > But it hasn't helped eliminate the root cause of your anxiety.
> >
> > > > > > It's difficult for people that have anxiety to keep from
> > > > > > over-worrying about medical problems or various other things.
> >
> > > > > Balderdash.
> >
> > > > > Anxieties take different forms depending on the root cause.
> >
> > > > > Only ignorant people worry over things they can't control.
> >
> > > > > > One lady

> > > > > > that was interviewed that had anxiety said that she spent many ho=
> urs =3D
> > > each
> > > > > > day worried about her child that was in college. People that don'=
> t ha=3D
> > > ve
> > > > > > anxiety don't =3D3DA0seem to over-worry about their medical probl=
> ems or=3D
> > > =A0their

> > > > > > children.
> >
> > > > > > jason
> >
> > > > > Now just over a year ago (March 2011) I had a pathological needle
> > > > > phobia.
> >
> > > > > With the help of my renal psychologist I overcame and defeated that
> > > > > phobia in less than six months.
> >
> > > > > No drugs, just therapy, some of it initially was overwhelming.
> >
> > > > > But it helped me get inside my own head.
> >
> > > > > Dig out the root cause, confront it and defeat it.
> >

> > > > Even when the root cause is known (such as a soldier being in combat =

> or a
> > > > cop being in many different life-threating situations) the anxiety
> > > > continues to be a problem for the rest of their lives.
> >

> > > > Do some research on post-tramatic stress disorder if you don't believ=
> e me=3D

> > > .
> > > > Lots of research has been done on that type of anxiety disorder.
> >

> > > > At one time (probably for money related reasons) the military refused=

> to
> > > > believe that post-tramatic stress was an official disorder that the
> > > > Veteran's Hospitals needed to treat. They now consider it to be an

> > > > official disorder so they do treat patients that suffer from post-tra=
> mati=3D

> > > c
> > > > stress disorder.
> >
> > > > I don't expect people that don't suffer from anxiety or post tramatic
> > > > stress disorder to have any compassion for people that have those
> > > > disorders.
> >
> > > You obviously haven't aid much attention to what I've said about
> > > myself.
> >
> > > > When I was a child and young adult, I had very little compassion for

> > > > various people had all sorts of major disorders. However, I now do ha=

> ve
> > > > lots of compassion for anyone that has any type of disorder--even
> > > > depression or anxiety.
> >
> > > Are you sure it's compassion you feel?
> >
> > > Compassion compels an individual to help someone who is in difficulty.
> >
> > > That compassionate person doesn't need to have personal experience of
> > > what the other person is gong through.
> >
> > > What you feel might only be sympathy.
> >
> > > Because you have some idea of what they're going through.
> >
> > Yes, I do. That is why I show them sympathy and compassion and support. I
> > help my best friend to take care of her 81 year old father--he is totally
> > disabled due to two bone diseases and a stoke.
>
> Perhaps you should go back to your Bible and read Matthew 5:46-47

It's a great scripture.

Do you agree that lots of people that have major cases of anxiety keep it
for the rest of their lives?

In much the same way there are stages for kidney disease and heart
disease---I believe there are stages for anxiety.

For example, post tramatic stress disorder--I would call the highest
stage. Most people in the world are at the lowest stage--I would call that
stage 1. For example, they may over-worry about budget problems or their
child that is in college. However, they have VERY normal lives and don't
suffer from panic attacks.

The people at the lower stages can get treatment and may never again have
any problems with anxiety.

However, the people at the highest stages such as cops and soldiers (PTSD)
will NEVER be free from anxiety so need to learn to breath thru panic
attacks and see psychologists. Some of them will probably end up having to
take medications like Xanex.

It's my guess that I am at one of the highest stages since I still have
panic attacks in stressful situations. A blood test indicated that I do
have higher than normal levels of adrenaline. I was not under stress
during the day that they conducted the blood test so that leads me to
believe that I always have higher than normal levels of various types of
adrenaline.

[Jason]

In article
<c8382982-f157-4f54...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 2, 11:42=A0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > On Wed, 2 May 2012 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >On May 1, 12:06=A0pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> >On Apr 30, 8:25=A0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > >> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > >> >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > >> >> >On Apr 22, 11:53=A0am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wro=
> te:

> > >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2:47=A0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> >
> > >> >> >> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
> >
> > >> >> >> > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > >> >> >> > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > >> >> >> > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications: Dru=

> g Safety
> > >> >> >> > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >

> > >> >> >> > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunication - =

> New
> > >> >> >> > >Warning and Contraindication
> > >> >> >> > >including:

> > >> >> >> > >=95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besylate, a=

> nd
> > >> >> >> > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > >> >> >> > >=95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)

> > >> >> >> > >=95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlorothiaz=
> ide)
> > >> >> >> > >=95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besylate)
> > >> >> >> > >=95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Valturna=

> will no
> > >> >> >> > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > >> >> >> > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> > >> >> >> > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >

> > >> >> >> > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible risk=
> s when
> > >> >> >> > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with othe=

> r drugs
> > >> >> >> > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) and

> > >> >> >> > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with diabete=
> s or
> > >> >> >> > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should not=
> be used
> > >> >> >> > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addition,=
> avoid
> > >> >> >> > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with moderate=
> to
> > >> >> >> > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtration ra=
> te [GFR]
> > >> >> >> > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are being up=
> dated
> > >> >> >> > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =93Aliskiren=
> Trial in
> > >> >> >> > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).=94
> > >> >> >> > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat high=

> blood
> > >> >> >> > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.

> > >> >> >> > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACE=
> Is in
> > >> >> >> > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the risk=
> of renal
> > >> >> >> > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of alisk=
> iren with
> > >> >> >> > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR < 6=
> 0 mL/min.
> > >> >> >> > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking to =
> your
> > >> >> >> > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can caus=
> e
> > >> >> >> > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is not tr=
> eated.
> > >> >> >> > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a lis=
> t of ACEI
> > >> >> >> > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for healthca=
> re
> > >> >> >> > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > >> >> >> > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE as w=
> ell? We
> > >> >> >> > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination any mo=
> re.
> >
> > >> >> >> > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > >> >> >> > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from 150m=
> g to
> > >> >> >> > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at the =
> same
> > >> >> >> > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidine. =
> What is
> > >> >> >> > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan has do=
> ne
> > >> >> >> > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop it al=
> l
> > >> >> >> > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or 5 w=
> eeks to
> > >> >> >> > kick in fully, but =A0doubt that would apply to increasing the=
> dosage?
> >
> > >> >> >> =A0 =A0I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result. =A0It =
> didn't seem
> > >> >> >> to do much. =A0I then tried diovan, but it was too costly here i=
> n the
> > >> >> >> USA. =A0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which as it =
> turns
> > >> >> >> out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney disease =
> for
> > >> >> >> some reason. =A0That seems to be true in my experience.

> >
> > >> >> >> Chris
> >
> > >> >> >I was on lisinopril and amlodipine to regulate my blood pressure.
> >
> > >> >> >But soon after starting dialysis I was taken off both of them.
> >
> > >> >> >Dialysis can help regulate blood pressure.
> >

> > >> >> I wonder how that works! As I understand in, in my case, my kidney =
> is
> > >> >> clogging up with dead antibodies which is causing the high BP and t=
> hus
> > >> >> tearing/scarring of the kidney. Mind you I guess if dialysis is tak=

> ing
> > >> >> out the antibodies then that's why. Hmmm interesting.
> >
> > >> >If the antibodies are attacking your kidneys then what's happening

> > >> >with your BP is due to the loss of a specific function of the kidneys=

> ,
> > >> >that being the production of the enzyme renin which is an essential
> > >> >part of your body's Renin-angiotensin system and helps regulate your
> > >> >BP under normal circumstances. What is your actual cause of kidney
> > >> >failure?
> >
> > >>http://www.igansupport.org/faqs.html
> > >> What is IgA Nephropathy?
> > >> Think of your kidneys as small but powerful filtration plants whose

> > >> job is to keep your blood clean and the body=92s chemical balance

> > >> maintained. Each day the kidneys process about 200 quarts of fluid
> > >> through their two million tiny treatment plans, the nephrons. Within
> > >> the nephron is the glomerulus, a tangle of fine capillaries that
> > >> filter the blood before passing it on to the tubules, where the

> > >> kidneys continually adjust the filtrate to your body=92s needs, adding

> > >> back chemicals removed during filtration or drawing off more water.

> > >> What=92s needed by the body is returned to the bloodstream; what=92s n=

> ot
> > >> needed is excreted as urine.
> >
> > >> In IgA Nephropathy [IgAN], unknown agents cause the glomeruli to

> > >> become =97 and to stay =97 inflamed. IgAN is the world=92s most common

> > >> glomerulonephritis [inflammation of the glomeruli], but its
> > >> pathogenesis [how the disease develops] is not known. IgAN is
> > >> considered to be an immune-complex mediated disorder (or
> > >> immunologically mediated disorder), which means that immune complexes
> > >> may not be the direct cause of the disease but they help bring about
> > >> the end result, which is widespread inflammation of the kidneys.
> >
> > >> Immune complexes form when the body is exposed to an antigen, such as
> > >> a virus, bacteria, toxin, or even allergen. In response, your body
> > >> sends out antibodies, which are immunoglobulins produced by a certain
> > >> class of white blood cells known as B-cells. There are five main
> > >> classes of these immunoglobulins, with IgA [immunoglobulin A] being
> > >> the main one directed against bacterial and viral antigens.
> >
> > >> Antibodies lock onto the surfaces of viruses and other foreign cells,
> > >> producing antigen-antibody aggregates known as immune complexes that
> > >> your body targets and attacks. Normally, these immune complexes
> > >> circulate through the bloodstream until being removed by the liver and
> > >> other organs. In IgAN, however, they become trapped in the glomeruli.
> >
> > >> Once trapped, immune complexes become like magnets for the rest of the

> > >> body=92s immune response. Macrophages and other cells race to the area

> > >> to release enzymes and generate toxic oxygen radicals that kill
> > >> bacteria and viruses but also injure local tissues. Trapped immune
> > >> complexes can also stimulate the overproduction of extracellular
> > >> matrix, a substance which surrounds and supports tissue cells.
> > >> Inflammatory chemicals released during the immune response increase
> > >> the permeability of the glomerular capillary walls, causing blood
> > >> being filtered in the kidneys to leak protein and fibrinogen.
> > >> Fibrinogen, crucial to the process by which blood clots, develops into
> > >> "crescents," which form scar tissue that obstructs circulation through
> > >> the glomerulus. Eventually, deprived of blood, the tubules and
> > >> glomerulus die, thus destroying the nephron and forcing other nephrons
> > >> to take up its work.
> >
> > >> What happens in IgAN is essentially a vicious cycle: inflammatory
> > >> chemicals increase the permeability of the glomerular capillary wall,
> > >> and that increased porosity enhances the absorption of other chemicals
> > >> that stimulate cellular growth and, ultimately, structural damage.
> > >> These changes take time because our kidneys have a lot of excess
> > >> capacity built into them. The damage is, however, slowly progressive
> > >> and, in the case of sclerosis [scarring], irreversible.
> >
> > >> We do not know what antigen is responsible for triggering IgAN, nor do

> > >> we know whether IgAN results from defects in the body=92s creation or

> > >> elimination of immune complexes. There is evidence that immunoglobulin
> > >> A is overproduced in the bone marrow of IgAN patients; some patients
> > >> also show decreased capacity to remove immune complexes from their
> > >> systems.
> >
> > >> Because so many IgAN patients have a cold or gastrointestinal illness
> > >> shortly before the onset of symptoms in the kidneys, it is likely that
> > >> IgAN starts with an immune response to infectious agents. Perhaps

> > >> protracted exposure to antigens =97 as in a recurrent viral illness, o=
> r
> > >> the multiple illnesses experienced by some IgAN patients =97 sends the

> > >> immune system into overdrive. The blood of IgAN patients often shows
> > >> high concentrations of IgA antibodies to a type of protein found in
> > >> many bacteria, as well as antibodies to many viruses. Certain viruses,
> > >> once established in the body as a low-level chronic infection, could
> > >> serve as a continuing source of antigen for the formation of

> > >> additional IgA immune complexes =97 and for the perpetuation of injury

> > >> to the kidneys. It is quite common for IgAN to present after an
> > >> individual has had an illness such as strep throat, ear infection,
> > >> etc., that was treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are effective
> > >> against bacteria but not against viruses and can even suppress the
> > >> immune system as far as viral infections are concerned, perhaps
> > >> allowing a viral infection to become ...
> >

> > >> read more =BB

That must have been very stressful.

One thing that you should have tested at least once per year is your
parathyroid gland. I had a good friend and neighbor that had kidney
failure for about 10 years before he died related to a heart attack. He
was doing very well until his parathyroid gland developed a major disorder
that caused him to lose most of the calcium that was in his bones. He
developed a MAJOR case of osteoporosis. It's a long story but his doctors
took over a year before they figured out that his parathyroid gland
malfunction was the source of the osteoporosis.

Don't let that happen to you.

Dr. Walser discusses that subject in his book.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 2, 9:10 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <c8382982-f157-4f54-87e7-13fb9adfb...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, Devils

Way ahead of you there.

By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.

It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.

And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.

Your PTH is tested every three months.

> I had a good friend and neighbor that had kidney
> failure for about 10 years before he died related to a heart attack. He
> was doing very well until his parathyroid gland developed a major disorder
> that caused him to lose most of the calcium that was in his bones. He
> developed a MAJOR case of osteoporosis. It's a long story but his doctors
> took over a year before they figured out that his parathyroid gland
> malfunction was the source of the osteoporosis.

Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.

Did his family take any action against those doctors?

>
> Don't let that happen to you.

It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my side.

>
> Dr. Walser discusses that subject in his book.

I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with.

[Jason]

In article
<ac35c421-0d84-4fde...@n1g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 2, 9:10=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article

> > <c8382982-f157-4f54-87e7-13fb9adfb...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, Devil=
> s
> >
> > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On May 2, 11:42=3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > On Wed, 2 May 2012 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >On May 1, 12:06=3DA0pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >> >On Apr 30, 8:25=3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > >> >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > >> >> >On Apr 22, 11:53=3DA0am, mainframetech <mainframet...@yahoo.co=
> m> wro=3D
> > > te:

> > > > >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2:47=3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetech
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > >> >> >> > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > > > >> >> >> > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medications:=
> Dru=3D

> > > g Safety
> > > > >> >> >> > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >

> > > > >> >> >> > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunicatio=
> n - =3D

> > > New
> > > > >> >> >> > >Warning and Contraindication
> > > > >> >> >> > >including:

> > > > >> >> >> > >=3D95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine besyl=
> ate, a=3D

> > > nd
> > > > >> >> >> > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > >> >> >> > >=3D95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)

> > > > >> >> >> > >=3D95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydrochlor=
> othiaz=3D
> > > ide)
> > > > >> >> >> > >=3D95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipine besy=
> late)
> > > > >> >> >> > >=3D95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsartan). Va=
> lturna=3D
> > > =A0will no

> > > > >> >> >> > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >

> > > > >> >> >> > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possible =
> risk=3D
> > > s when
> > > > >> >> >> > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren with =
> othe=3D
> > > r drugs
> > > > >> >> >> > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEIs) a=
> nd
> > > > >> >> >> > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with dia=
> bete=3D
> > > s or
> > > > >> >> >> > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations should=
> not=3D
> > > =A0be used
> > > > >> >> >> > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In addit=
> ion,=3D
> > > =A0avoid
> > > > >> >> >> > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with mode=
> rate=3D
> > > =A0to
> > > > >> >> >> > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtratio=
> n ra=3D
> > > te [GFR]
> > > > >> >> >> > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are bein=
> g up=3D
> > > dated
> > > > >> >> >> > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =3D93Ali=
> skiren=3D
> > > =A0Trial in

> > > > >> >> >> > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUDE).=

> =3D94
> > > > >> >> >> > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to treat =
> high=3D
> > > =A0blood

> > > > >> >> >> > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.

> > > > >> >> >> > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARBs or=
> ACE=3D
> > > Is in
> > > > >> >> >> > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of the =
> risk=3D
> > > =A0of renal
> > > > >> >> >> > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use of a=
> lisk=3D
> > > iren with
> > > > >> >> >> > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where GFR=
> < 6=3D
> > > 0 mL/min.
> > > > >> >> >> > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without talking=
> to =3D
> > > your
> > > > >> >> >> > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly can =
> caus=3D
> > > e
> > > > >> >> >> > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) is no=
> t tr=3D
> > > eated.
> > > > >> >> >> > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summary, a=
> lis=3D
> > > t of ACEI
> > > > >> >> >> > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for heal=
> thca=3D
> > > re
> > > > >> >> >> > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/ACE =
> as w=3D
> > > ell? We
> > > > >> >> >> > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combination an=
> y mo=3D
> > > re.
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > > > >> >> >> > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB from =
> 150m=3D
> > > g to
> > > > >> >> >> > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg) at =
> the =3D
> > > same
> > > > >> >> >> > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clonidi=
> ne. =3D
> > > What is
> > > > >> >> >> > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesartan ha=
> s do=3D
> > > ne
> > > > >> >> >> > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should drop i=
> t al=3D
> > > l
> > > > >> >> >> > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take 4 or=
> 5 w=3D
> > > eeks to
> > > > >> >> >> > kick in fully, but =3DA0doubt that would apply to increasi=
> ng the=3D
> > > =A0dosage?
> >
> > > > >> >> >> =3DA0 =3DA0I tried irbesartan once, and had a similar result=
> . =3DA0It =3D
> > > didn't seem
> > > > >> >> >> to do much. =3DA0I then tried diovan, but it was too costly =
> here i=3D
> > > n the
> > > > >> >> >> USA. =3DA0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) which =
> as it =3D
> > > turns
> > > > >> >> >> out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney dise=
> ase =3D
> > > for
> > > > >> >> >> some reason. =3DA0That seems to be true in my experience.
> >
> > > > >> >> >> Chris
> >
> > > > >> >> >I was on lisinopril and amlodipine to regulate my blood pressu=

> re.
> >
> > > > >> >> >But soon after starting dialysis I was taken off both of them.
> >
> > > > >> >> >Dialysis can help regulate blood pressure.
> >

> > > > >> >> I wonder how that works! As I understand in, in my case, my kid=
> ney =3D
> > > is
> > > > >> >> clogging up with dead antibodies which is causing the high BP a=
> nd t=3D
> > > hus
> > > > >> >> tearing/scarring of the kidney. Mind you I guess if dialysis is=
> tak=3D

> > > ing
> > > > >> >> out the antibodies then that's why. Hmmm interesting.
> >

> > > > >> >If the antibodies are attacking your kidneys then what's happenin=
> g
> > > > >> >with your BP is due to the loss of a specific function of the kid=
> neys=3D
> > > ,
> > > > >> >that being the production of the enzyme renin which is an essenti=
> al
> > > > >> >part of your body's Renin-angiotensin system and helps regulate y=
> our
> > > > >> >BP under normal circumstances. What is your actual cause of kidne=

> y
> > > > >> >failure?
> >
> > > > >>http://www.igansupport.org/faqs.html
> > > > >> What is IgA Nephropathy?

> > > > >> Think of your kidneys as small but powerful filtration plants whos=
> e
> > > > >> job is to keep your blood clean and the body=3D92s chemical balanc=

> e
> > > > >> maintained. Each day the kidneys process about 200 quarts of fluid

> > > > >> through their two million tiny treatment plans, the nephrons. With=

> in
> > > > >> the nephron is the glomerulus, a tangle of fine capillaries that
> > > > >> filter the blood before passing it on to the tubules, where the

> > > > >> kidneys continually adjust the filtrate to your body=3D92s needs, =
> adding
> > > > >> back chemicals removed during filtration or drawing off more water=
> .
> > > > >> What=3D92s needed by the body is returned to the bloodstream; what=
> =3D92s n=3D

> > > ot
> > > > >> needed is excreted as urine.
> >
> > > > >> In IgA Nephropathy [IgAN], unknown agents cause the glomeruli to

> > > > >> become =3D97 and to stay =3D97 inflamed. IgAN is the world=3D92s m=

> ost common
> > > > >> glomerulonephritis [inflammation of the glomeruli], but its
> > > > >> pathogenesis [how the disease develops] is not known. IgAN is
> > > > >> considered to be an immune-complex mediated disorder (or

> > > > >> immunologically mediated disorder), which means that immune comple=
> xes
> > > > >> may not be the direct cause of the disease but they help bring abo=

> ut
> > > > >> the end result, which is widespread inflammation of the kidneys.
> >

> > > > >> Immune complexes form when the body is exposed to an antigen, such=

> as
> > > > >> a virus, bacteria, toxin, or even allergen. In response, your body

> > > > >> sends out antibodies, which are immunoglobulins produced by a cert=

> ain
> > > > >> class of white blood cells known as B-cells. There are five main

> > > > >> classes of these immunoglobulins, with IgA [immunoglobulin A] bein=

> g
> > > > >> the main one directed against bacterial and viral antigens.
> >

> > > > >> Antibodies lock onto the surfaces of viruses and other foreign cel=
> ls,
> > > > >> producing antigen-antibody aggregates known as immune complexes th=

> at
> > > > >> your body targets and attacks. Normally, these immune complexes

> > > > >> circulate through the bloodstream until being removed by the liver=
> and
> > > > >> other organs. In IgAN, however, they become trapped in the glomeru=
> li.
> >
> > > > >> Once trapped, immune complexes become like magnets for the rest of=
> the
> > > > >> body=3D92s immune response. Macrophages and other cells race to th=

> e area
> > > > >> to release enzymes and generate toxic oxygen radicals that kill
> > > > >> bacteria and viruses but also injure local tissues. Trapped immune
> > > > >> complexes can also stimulate the overproduction of extracellular
> > > > >> matrix, a substance which surrounds and supports tissue cells.

> > > > >> Inflammatory chemicals released during the immune response increas=

> e
> > > > >> the permeability of the glomerular capillary walls, causing blood
> > > > >> being filtered in the kidneys to leak protein and fibrinogen.

> > > > >> Fibrinogen, crucial to the process by which blood clots, develops =
> into
> > > > >> "crescents," which form scar tissue that obstructs circulation thr=

> ough
> > > > >> the glomerulus. Eventually, deprived of blood, the tubules and

> > > > >> glomerulus die, thus destroying the nephron and forcing other neph=

> rons
> > > > >> to take up its work.
> >
> > > > >> What happens in IgAN is essentially a vicious cycle: inflammatory

> > > > >> chemicals increase the permeability of the glomerular capillary wa=
> ll,
> > > > >> and that increased porosity enhances the absorption of other chemi=

> cals
> > > > >> that stimulate cellular growth and, ultimately, structural damage.
> > > > >> These changes take time because our kidneys have a lot of excess

> > > > >> capacity built into them. The damage is, however, slowly progressi=

> ve
> > > > >> and, in the case of sclerosis [scarring], irreversible.
> >

> > > > >> We do not know what antigen is responsible for triggering IgAN, no=
> r do
> > > > >> we know whether IgAN results from defects in the body=3D92s creati=
> on or
> > > > >> elimination of immune complexes. There is evidence that immunoglob=
> ulin
> > > > >> A is overproduced in the bone marrow of IgAN patients; some patien=

> ts
> > > > >> also show decreased capacity to remove immune complexes from their
> > > > >> systems.
> >

> > > > >> Because so many IgAN patients have a cold or gastrointestinal illn=
> ess
> > > > >> shortly before the onset of symptoms in the kidneys, it is likely =

> that
> > > > >> IgAN starts with an immune response to infectious agents. Perhaps

> > > > >> protracted exposure to antigens =3D97 as in a recurrent viral illn=
> ess, o=3D
> > > r
> > > > >> the multiple illnesses experienced by some IgAN patients =3D97 sen=
> ds the
> > > > >> immune system into overdrive. The blood of IgAN patients often sho=
> ws
> > > > >> high concentrations of IgA antibodies to a type of protein found i=
> n
> > > > >> many bacteria, as well as antibodies to many viruses. Certain viru=
> ses,
> > > > >> once established in the body as a low-level chronic infection, cou=

> ld
> > > > >> serve as a continuing source of antigen for the formation of

> > > > >> additional IgA immune complexes =3D97 and for the perpetuation of =

> injury
> > > > >> to the kidneys. It is quite common for IgAN to present after an
> > > > >> individual has had an illness such as strep throat, ear infection,
> > > > >> etc., that was treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are effective
> > > > >> against bacteria but not against viruses and can even suppress the
> > > > >> immune system as far as viral infections are concerned, perhaps
> > > > >> allowing a viral infection to become ...
> >

> > > > >> read more =3DBB

> >
> > > > >Thanks for the input on that condition, sounds really nasty, and as
> > > > >bad as, if not worse than my Polycystic Kidney Disease.
> >
> > > > Nah not so bad. Diagnosed in 1993 and now down to 30% so in the grand
> > > > scheme of things I have been lucky so far. The only downside, well
> > > > quite a major one, is the fatigue..running on empty all the time aint

> > > > no fun. But no pain or real problems to speak of so I have to count m=

> > was doing very well until his parathyroid gland developed a major disorde=

> r
> > that caused him to lose most of the calcium that was in his bones. He
> > developed a MAJOR case of osteoporosis. It's a long story but his doctors
> > took over a year before they figured out that his parathyroid gland
> > malfunction was the source of the osteoporosis.
>
> Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.
>
> Did his family take any action against those doctors?
> >
> > Don't let that happen to you.
>
> It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my side.
> >
> > Dr. Walser discusses that subject in his book.
>
> I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with.

If you get your parathyroid gland checked once per year--you won't have to
worry about it. Also, if you develop bone, joint, muscle or tendon
problems--get it tested ASAP. My neighbor developed bone probems it and
his stupid nephrologist said it was a normal case of Arthritis (aka
osteoarthritis).

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 3, 9:07 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <ac35c421-0d84-4fde-ac54-6f2d0d941...@n1g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, Devils

You're repeating yourself without having read what I posted.

[Jason]

In article
<d33751f9-e771-4655...@t16g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>,
Devils Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 3, 9:07=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article

> > <ac35c421-0d84-4fde-ac54-6f2d0d941...@n1g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, Devil=
> s
> >
> > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On May 2, 9:10=3DA0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > > In article

> > > > <c8382982-f157-4f54-87e7-13fb9adfb...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com>, D=
> evil=3D
> > > s
> >
> > > > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > On May 2, 11:42=3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > > > On Wed, 2 May 2012 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > > > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > >On May 1, 12:06=3D3DA0pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > > > >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > >> >On Apr 30, 8:25=3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > > > >> >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > >> >> >On Apr 22, 11:53=3D3DA0am, mainframetech <mainframet...@ya=
> hoo.co=3D
> > > m> wro=3D3D
> > > > > te:
> > > > > > >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2:47=3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wr=
> ote:
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainframetec=

> h
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medicati=
> ons:=3D
> > > =A0Dru=3D3D

> > > > > g Safety
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Comunic=
> atio=3D
> > > n - =3D3D

> > > > > New
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Warning and Contraindication
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >including:

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlodipine=
> besyl=3D
> > > ate, a=3D3D

> > > > > nd
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate and hydr=
> ochlor=3D
> > > othiaz=3D3D
> > > > > ide)
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and amlodipin=
> e besy=3D
> > > late)
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and valsarta=
> n). Va=3D
> > > lturna=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0will no

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > Never heard of any of them!
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinology
> >

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of possi=
> ble =3D
> > > risk=3D3D
> > > > > s when
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskiren w=
> ith =3D
> > > othe=3D3D
> > > > > r drugs
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (ACEI=
> s) a=3D
> > > nd
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients with=
> dia=3D
> > > bete=3D3D
> > > > > s or
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combinations sh=
> ould=3D
> > > =A0not=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0be used
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. In a=
> ddit=3D
> > > ion,=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0avoid
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients with =
> mode=3D
> > > rate=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0to
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular filtr=
> atio=3D
> > > n ra=3D3D
> > > > > te [GFR]
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs are =
> bein=3D
> > > g up=3D3D
> > > > > dated
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =3D3=
> D93Ali=3D
> > > skiren=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0Trial in
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALTITUD=
> E).=3D
> > > =3D3D94
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used to tr=
> eat =3D
> > > high=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0blood

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressure.

> > > > > > >> >> >> > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with ARB=
> s or=3D
> > > =A0ACE=3D3D
> > > > > Is in
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because of =
> the =3D
> > > risk=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0of renal
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid use =
> of a=3D
> > > lisk=3D3D
> > > > > iren with
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment where=
> GFR=3D
> > > =A0< 6=3D3D
> > > > > 0 mL/min.
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without tal=
> king=3D
> > > =A0to =3D3D
> > > > > your
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren suddenly =
> can =3D
> > > caus=3D3D
> > > > > e
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertension) i=
> s no=3D
> > > t tr=3D3D
> > > > > eated.
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Summar=
> y, a=3D
> > > =A0lis=3D3D
> > > > > t of ACEI
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations for =
> heal=3D
> > > thca=3D3D
> > > > > re
> > > > > > >> >> >> > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on ARB/=
> ACE =3D
> > > as w=3D3D
> > > > > ell? We
> > > > > > >> >> >> > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combinatio=
> n an=3D
> > > y mo=3D3D
> > > > > re.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of ARB f=
> rom =3D
> > > 150m=3D3D
> > > > > g to
> > > > > > >> >> >> > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200mcg)=
> at =3D
> > > the =3D3D
> > > > > same
> > > > > > >> >> >> > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect clo=
> nidi=3D
> > > ne. =3D3D
> > > > > What is
> > > > > > >> >> >> > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbesarta=
> n ha=3D
> > > s do=3D3D
> > > > > ne
> > > > > > >> >> >> > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I should dr=
> op i=3D
> > > t al=3D3D
> > > > > l
> > > > > > >> >> >> > together. They do say when starting ARB it could take =
> 4 or=3D
> > > =A05 w=3D3D
> > > > > eeks to
> > > > > > >> >> >> > kick in fully, but =3D3DA0doubt that would apply to in=
> creasi=3D
> > > ng the=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0dosage?
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> =3D3DA0 =3D3DA0I tried irbesartan once, and had a simila=
> r result=3D
> > > . =3D3DA0It =3D3D
> > > > > didn't seem
> > > > > > >> >> >> to do much. =3D3DA0I then tried diovan, but it was too c=
> ostly =3D
> > > here i=3D3D
> > > > > n the
> > > > > > >> >> >> USA. =3D3DA0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (10mg) =
> which =3D
> > > as it =3D3D
> > > > > turns
> > > > > > >> >> >> out has a much more greater effect when you have kidney =
> dise=3D
> > > ase =3D3D
> > > > > for
> > > > > > >> >> >> some reason. =3D3DA0That seems to be true in my experien=
> ce.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >> Chris
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >I was on lisinopril and amlodipine to regulate my blood pr=
> essu=3D
> > > re.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >But soon after starting dialysis I was taken off both of t=

> hem.
> >
> > > > > > >> >> >Dialysis can help regulate blood pressure.
> >

> > > > > > >> >> I wonder how that works! As I understand in, in my case, my=
> kid=3D
> > > ney =3D3D
> > > > > is
> > > > > > >> >> clogging up with dead antibodies which is causing the high =
> BP a=3D
> > > nd t=3D3D
> > > > > hus
> > > > > > >> >> tearing/scarring of the kidney. Mind you I guess if dialysi=
> s is=3D
> > > =A0tak=3D3D

> > > > > ing
> > > > > > >> >> out the antibodies then that's why. Hmmm interesting.
> >

> > > > > > >> >If the antibodies are attacking your kidneys then what's happ=
> enin=3D
> > > g
> > > > > > >> >with your BP is due to the loss of a specific function of the=
> kid=3D
> > > neys=3D3D
> > > > > ,
> > > > > > >> >that being the production of the enzyme renin which is an ess=
> enti=3D
> > > al
> > > > > > >> >part of your body's Renin-angiotensin system and helps regula=
> te y=3D
> > > our
> > > > > > >> >BP under normal circumstances. What is your actual cause of k=
> idne=3D

> > > y
> > > > > > >> >failure?
> >
> > > > > > >>http://www.igansupport.org/faqs.html
> > > > > > >> What is IgA Nephropathy?

> > > > > > >> Think of your kidneys as small but powerful filtration plants =
> whos=3D
> > > e
> > > > > > >> job is to keep your blood clean and the body=3D3D92s chemical =
> balanc=3D
> > > e
> > > > > > >> maintained. Each day the kidneys process about 200 quarts of f=
> luid
> > > > > > >> through their two million tiny treatment plans, the nephrons. =
> With=3D
> > > in
> > > > > > >> the nephron is the glomerulus, a tangle of fine capillaries th=
> at
> > > > > > >> filter the blood before passing it on to the tubules, where th=
> e
> > > > > > >> kidneys continually adjust the filtrate to your body=3D3D92s n=
> eeds, =3D
> > > adding
> > > > > > >> back chemicals removed during filtration or drawing off more w=
> ater=3D
> > > .
> > > > > > >> What=3D3D92s needed by the body is returned to the bloodstream=
> ; what=3D
> > > =3D3D92s n=3D3D

> > > > > ot
> > > > > > >> needed is excreted as urine.
> >

> > > > > > >> In IgA Nephropathy [IgAN], unknown agents cause the glomeruli =
> to
> > > > > > >> become =3D3D97 and to stay =3D3D97 inflamed. IgAN is the world=
> =3D3D92s m=3D

> > > ost common
> > > > > > >> glomerulonephritis [inflammation of the glomeruli], but its
> > > > > > >> pathogenesis [how the disease develops] is not known. IgAN is
> > > > > > >> considered to be an immune-complex mediated disorder (or

> > > > > > >> immunologically mediated disorder), which means that immune co=
> mple=3D
> > > xes
> > > > > > >> may not be the direct cause of the disease but they help bring=
> abo=3D
> > > ut
> > > > > > >> the end result, which is widespread inflammation of the kidney=
> s.
> >
> > > > > > >> Immune complexes form when the body is exposed to an antigen, =
> such=3D
> > > =A0as
> > > > > > >> a virus, bacteria, toxin, or even allergen. In response, your =
> body
> > > > > > >> sends out antibodies, which are immunoglobulins produced by a =
> cert=3D
> > > ain
> > > > > > >> class of white blood cells known as B-cells. There are five ma=
> in
> > > > > > >> classes of these immunoglobulins, with IgA [immunoglobulin A] =
> bein=3D

> > > g
> > > > > > >> the main one directed against bacterial and viral antigens.
> >

> > > > > > >> Antibodies lock onto the surfaces of viruses and other foreign=
> cel=3D
> > > ls,
> > > > > > >> producing antigen-antibody aggregates known as immune complexe=
> s th=3D
> > > at
> > > > > > >> your body targets and attacks. Normally, these immune complexe=
> s
> > > > > > >> circulate through the bloodstream until being removed by the l=
> iver=3D
> > > =A0and
> > > > > > >> other organs. In IgAN, however, they become trapped in the glo=
> meru=3D
> > > li.
> >
> > > > > > >> Once trapped, immune complexes become like magnets for the res=
> t of=3D
> > > =A0the
> > > > > > >> body=3D3D92s immune response. Macrophages and other cells race=
> to th=3D
> > > e area
> > > > > > >> to release enzymes and generate toxic oxygen radicals that kil=
> l
> > > > > > >> bacteria and viruses but also injure local tissues. Trapped im=
> mune
> > > > > > >> complexes can also stimulate the overproduction of extracellul=

> ar
> > > > > > >> matrix, a substance which surrounds and supports tissue cells.

> > > > > > >> Inflammatory chemicals released during the immune response inc=
> reas=3D
> > > e
> > > > > > >> the permeability of the glomerular capillary walls, causing bl=

> ood
> > > > > > >> being filtered in the kidneys to leak protein and fibrinogen.

> > > > > > >> Fibrinogen, crucial to the process by which blood clots, devel=
> ops =3D
> > > into
> > > > > > >> "crescents," which form scar tissue that obstructs circulation=
> thr=3D

> > > ough
> > > > > > >> the glomerulus. Eventually, deprived of blood, the tubules and

> > > > > > >> glomerulus die, thus destroying the nephron and forcing other =
> neph=3D

> > > rons
> > > > > > >> to take up its work.
> >

> > > > > > >> What happens in IgAN is essentially a vicious cycle: inflammat=
> ory
> > > > > > >> chemicals increase the permeability of the glomerular capillar=
> y wa=3D
> > > ll,
> > > > > > >> and that increased porosity enhances the absorption of other c=
> hemi=3D
> > > cals
> > > > > > >> that stimulate cellular growth and, ultimately, structural dam=
> age.
> > > > > > >> These changes take time because our kidneys have a lot of exce=
> ss
> > > > > > >> capacity built into them. The damage is, however, slowly progr=
> essi=3D

> > > ve
> > > > > > >> and, in the case of sclerosis [scarring], irreversible.
> >

> > > > > > >> We do not know what antigen is responsible for triggering IgAN=
> , no=3D
> > > r do
> > > > > > >> we know whether IgAN results from defects in the body=3D3D92s =
> creati=3D
> > > on or
> > > > > > >> elimination of immune complexes. There is evidence that immuno=
> glob=3D
> > > ulin
> > > > > > >> A is overproduced in the bone marrow of IgAN patients; some pa=
> tien=3D
> > > ts
> > > > > > >> also show decreased capacity to remove immune complexes from t=
> heir
> > > > > > >> systems.
> >
> > > > > > >> Because so many IgAN patients have a cold or gastrointestinal =
> illn=3D
> > > ess
> > > > > > >> shortly before the onset of symptoms in the kidneys, it is lik=
> ely =3D
> > > that
> > > > > > >> IgAN starts with an immune response to infectious agents. Perh=
> aps
> > > > > > >> protracted exposure to antigens =3D3D97 as in a recurrent vira=
> l illn=3D
> > > ess, o=3D3D
> > > > > r
> > > > > > >> the multiple illnesses experienced by some IgAN patients =3D3D=
> 97 sen=3D
> > > ds the
> > > > > > >> immune system into overdrive. The blood of IgAN patients often=
> sho=3D
> > > ws
> > > > > > >> high concentrations of IgA antibodies to a type of protein fou=
> nd i=3D
> > > n
> > > > > > >> many bacteria, as well as antibodies to many viruses. Certain =
> viru=3D
> > > ses,
> > > > > > >> once established in the body as a low-level chronic infection,=
> cou=3D

> > > ld
> > > > > > >> serve as a continuing source of antigen for the formation of

> > > > > > >> additional IgA immune complexes =3D3D97 and for the perpetuati=
> on of =3D
> > > injury
> > > > > > >> to the kidneys. It is quite common for IgAN to present after a=
> n
> > > > > > >> individual has had an illness such as strep throat, ear infect=
> ion,
> > > > > > >> etc., that was treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are effec=
> tive
> > > > > > >> against bacteria but not against viruses and can even suppress=
> the
> > > > > > >> immune system as far as viral infections are concerned, perhap=

> s
> > > > > > >> allowing a viral infection to become ...
> >

> > > > > > >> read more =3D3DBB
> >
> > > > > > >Thanks for the input on that condition, sounds really nasty, and=

> as
> > > > > > >bad as, if not worse than my Polycystic Kidney Disease.
> >

> > > > > > Nah not so bad. Diagnosed in 1993 and now down to 30% so in the g=
> rand
> > > > > > scheme of things I have been lucky so far. The only downside, wel=
> l
> > > > > > quite a major one, is the fatigue..running on empty all the time =
> aint
> > > > > > no fun. But no pain or real problems to speak of so I have to cou=
> nt m=3D
> > > y
> > > > > > blessings :)
> >
> > > > > > Polycystic Kidney Disease sounds much worse! Often in the early d=

> ays
> > > > > > of the original IgAN (not the snotty nosed little dictator run

> > > > > > canadian job we now see that copied it) forum some people complai=
> ned
> > > > > > of flank pain... I wonder if that was caused by the kidneys becom=

> ing
> > > > > > enlarged for some reason along the lines of a cyst but it was not
> > > > > > known at the time? If not I wonder why the pain!
> >
> > > > > Flank pain is a problem with a lot of kidney patients, and is often
> > > > > due to infection in the kidneys.
> >

> > > > > In PKD It can also be associated with cysts bleeding or rupturing, =

> and
> > > > > when that happens you can end up pissing blood (pardon my French).
> >
> > > > > It happened to me last year after being elbowed in the back by an
> > > > > impatient passenger trying to get off the bus I was on.
> >
> > > > > When I got home I had a rather urgent need for the toilet, more so
> > > > > than I'd had in years.
> >
> > > > > Standing there I started urinating and it immediately felt wrong,
> > > > > rather sticky and thick.
> >
> > > > > I looked down, and saw what appeared to be just blood.
> >
> > > > > Not so much blood in the urine, as urine in the blood.
> >

> > > > > So I took myself off to the A&E of the hospital where I was dialysi=

> ng,
> > > > > got admitted and remained there for six days.
> >

> > > > > The longest time I've ever spent in hospital in my 53 years of life=

> .
> >
> > > > That must have been very stressful.
> >
> > > > One thing that you should have tested at least once per year is your
> > > > parathyroid gland.
> >
> > > Way ahead of you there.
> >
> > > By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.
> >
> > > It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.
> >
> > > And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.
> >
> > > Your PTH is tested every three months.
> >
> > > > I had a good friend and neighbor that had kidney

> > > > failure for about 10 years before he died related to a heart attack. =
> He
> > > > was doing very well until his parathyroid gland developed a major dis=
> orde=3D

> > > r
> > > > that caused him to lose most of the calcium that was in his bones. He

> > > > developed a MAJOR case of osteoporosis. It's a long story but his doc=

> tors
> > > > took over a year before they figured out that his parathyroid gland
> > > > malfunction was the source of the osteoporosis.
> >
> > > Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.
> >
> > > Did his family take any action against those doctors?
> >
> > > > Don't let that happen to you.
> >
> > > It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my side.
> >
> > > > Dr. Walser discusses that subject in his book.
> >
> > > I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with.
> >

> > If you get your parathyroid gland checked once per year--you won't have t=

> o
> > worry about it. Also, if you develop bone, joint, muscle or tendon
> > problems--get it tested ASAP. My neighbor developed bone probems it and
> > his stupid nephrologist said it was a normal case of Arthritis (aka
> > osteoarthritis).
>
> You're repeating yourself without having read what I posted.

Yes, I did--you mentioned "worry" in one of your sentences.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 4, 7:20 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <d33751f9-e771-4655-afac-963fd5e61...@t16g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>,

Go back and read the whole damn post.

[Jason]

In article
<cd7a4306-d15a-480a...@m15g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,
Devils Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

> On May 4, 7:20=A0am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article
> > <d33751f9-e771-4655-afac-963fd5e61...@t16g2000yqt.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > Devils Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > On May 3, 9:07=3DA0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > > In article

> > > > <ac35c421-0d84-4fde-ac54-6f2d0d941...@n1g2000vby.googlegroups.com>, D=

> evil=3D
> > > s
> >
> > > > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > On May 2, 9:10=3D3DA0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > > > > In article

> > > > > > <c8382982-f157-4f54-87e7-13fb9adfb...@h5g2000vbx.googlegroups.com=
> >, D=3D
> > > evil=3D3D
> > > > > s
> >
> > > > > > Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > On May 2, 11:42=3D3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > On Wed, 2 May 2012 03:01:12 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > > > > > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >On May 1, 12:06=3D3D3DA0pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrot=

> e:
> > > > > > > > >> On Mon, 30 Apr 2012 09:54:17 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> >
> > > > > > > > >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > > > > > > >> >On Apr 30, 8:25=3D3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> w=
> rote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> On Sun, 29 Apr 2012 13:00:10 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advoca=
> at
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> >On Apr 22, 11:53=3D3D3DA0am, mainframetech <mainframet=
> ...@ya=3D
> > > hoo.co=3D3D
> > > > > m> wro=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > te:
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> On Apr 22, 2:47=3D3D3DA0am, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.c=
> om> wr=3D
> > > ote:
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > On Sat, 21 Apr 2012 06:51:25 -0700 (PDT), mainfram=
> etec=3D

> > > h
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > <mainframet...@yahoo.com> wrote:
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >From: FDA MedWatch Date: 04/20/2012

> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Subject: FDA MedWatch - Aliskiren-containing Medi=
> cati=3D
> > > ons:=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0Dru=3D3D3D

> > > > > > > g Safety
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Comunication - New Warning and Contraindication
> >

> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Aliskiren-containing Medications: Drug Safety Com=
> unic=3D
> > > atio=3D3D
> > > > > n - =3D3D3D

> > > > > > > New
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Warning and Contraindication
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >including:

> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D3D95 Amturnide (aliskiren hemifumarate, amlo=
> dipine=3D
> > > =A0besyl=3D3D
> > > > > ate, a=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > nd
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >hydrochlorothiazide)
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D3D95 Tekturna (aliskiren hemifumarate)
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D3D95 Tekturna HCT (aliskiren hemifumarate an=
> d hydr=3D
> > > ochlor=3D3D
> > > > > othiaz=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > ide)
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D3D95 Tekamlo (aliskiren hemifumarate and aml=
> odipin=3D
> > > e besy=3D3D
> > > > > late)
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >=3D3D3D95 Valturna (aliskiren hemifumarate and va=
> lsarta=3D
> > > n). Va=3D3D
> > > > > lturna=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0will no

> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >longer be marketed after July 2012
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > Never heard of any of them!
> >

> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >AUDIENCE: Internal Medicine, Pharmacy, Endocrinol=
> ogy
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >ISSUE: FDA notified healthcare professionals of p=
> ossi=3D
> > > ble =3D3D
> > > > > risk=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > s when
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >using blood pressure medicines containing aliskir=
> en w=3D
> > > ith =3D3D
> > > > > othe=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > r drugs
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >called angiotensin converting enzyme inhibitors (=
> ACEI=3D
> > > s) a=3D3D
> > > > > nd
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >angiotensin receptor blockers (ARBs) in patients =
> with=3D
> > > =A0dia=3D3D
> > > > > bete=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > s or
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >kidney (renal) impairment. These drug combination=
> s sh=3D
> > > ould=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0not=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0be used
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >(are contraindicated) in patients with diabetes. =
> In a=3D
> > > ddit=3D3D
> > > > > ion,=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0avoid
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >use of aliskiren with ARBs or ACEIs in patients w=
> ith =3D
> > > mode=3D3D
> > > > > rate=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0to
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >severe renal impairment (i.e., where glomerular f=
> iltr=3D
> > > atio=3D3D
> > > > > n ra=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > te [GFR]
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >< 60 mL/min). The labels for the aliskiren drugs =
> are =3D
> > > bein=3D3D
> > > > > g up=3D3D3D

> > > > > > > dated
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >based on preliminary data from a clinical trial, =

> =3D3D3=3D
> > > D93Ali=3D3D
> > > > > skiren=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0Trial in
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Type 2 Diabetes Using Cardio-Renal Endpoints (ALT=
> ITUD=3D
> > > E).=3D3D
> > > > > =3D3D3D94
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >BACKGROUND: Aliskiren is a renin inhibitor used t=
> o tr=3D
> > > eat =3D3D
> > > > > high=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0blood
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >pressure (hypertension) by lowering blood pressur=
> e.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >RECOMMENDATION: Concomitant use of aliskiren with=
> ARB=3D
> > > s or=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0ACE=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > Is in
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >patients with diabetes is contraindicated because=
> of =3D
> > > the =3D3D
> > > > > risk=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0of renal
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >impairment, hypotension, and hyperkalemia. Avoid =
> use =3D
> > > of a=3D3D
> > > > > lisk=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > iren with
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >ARBs or ACEIs in patients with renal impairment w=
> here=3D
> > > =A0GFR=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0< 6=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > 0 mL/min.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >Patients should not stop taking aliskiren without=
> tal=3D
> > > king=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0to =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > your
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >healthcare professional. Stopping aliskiren sudde=
> nly =3D
> > > can =3D3D
> > > > > caus=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > e
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >problems if your high blood pressure (hypertensio=
> n) i=3D
> > > s no=3D3D
> > > > > t tr=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > eated.
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >See the Drug Safety Communication for the Data Su=
> mmar=3D
> > > y, a=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0lis=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > t of ACEI
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >and ARB products, and additional recommendations =
> for =3D
> > > heal=3D3D
> > > > > thca=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > re
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > >professionals and patients.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > Surely that should serve as a warning to those on =
> ARB/=3D
> > > ACE =3D3D
> > > > > as w=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > ell? We
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > already know ACE/ARB should not be taken in combin=
> atio=3D
> > > n an=3D3D
> > > > > y mo=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > re.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > CC to alt.support.diabetes.uk
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > As an aside: I have been trying to up my dose of A=
> RB f=3D
> > > rom =3D3D
> > > > > 150m=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > g to
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > 300mg and drop my dose of clonidine (400mcg to 200=
> mcg)=3D
> > > =A0at =3D3D
> > > > > the =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > same
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > time, as the fatigue was killing me, and I suspect=
> clo=3D
> > > nidi=3D3D
> > > > > ne. =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > What is
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > quite apparent is that the increased dose of irbes=
> arta=3D
> > > n ha=3D3D
> > > > > s do=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > ne
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > nothing for my BP, and so its looking like I shoul=
> d dr=3D
> > > op i=3D3D
> > > > > t al=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > l
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > together. They do say when starting ARB it could t=
> ake =3D
> > > 4 or=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA05 w=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > eeks to
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> > kick in fully, but =3D3D3DA0doubt that would apply=
> to in=3D
> > > creasi=3D3D
> > > > > ng the=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > =3D3DA0dosage?
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> =3D3D3DA0 =3D3D3DA0I tried irbesartan once, and had =
> a simila=3D
> > > r result=3D3D
> > > > > . =3D3D3DA0It =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > didn't seem
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> to do much. =3D3D3DA0I then tried diovan, but it was=
> too c=3D
> > > ostly =3D3D
> > > > > here i=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > n the
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> USA. =3D3D3DA0I finally fell back on my Lisinopril (=
> 10mg) =3D
> > > which =3D3D
> > > > > as it =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > turns
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> out has a much more greater effect when you have kid=
> ney =3D
> > > dise=3D3D
> > > > > ase =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > for
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> some reason. =3D3D3DA0That seems to be true in my ex=
> perien=3D
> > > ce.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >> Chris
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >I was on lisinopril and amlodipine to regulate my bloo=
> d pr=3D
> > > essu=3D3D
> > > > > re.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >But soon after starting dialysis I was taken off both =
> of t=3D

> > > hem.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> >> >Dialysis can help regulate blood pressure.
> >

> > > > > > > > >> >> I wonder how that works! As I understand in, in my case=
> , my=3D
> > > =A0kid=3D3D
> > > > > ney =3D3D3D
> > > > > > > is
> > > > > > > > >> >> clogging up with dead antibodies which is causing the h=
> igh =3D
> > > BP a=3D3D
> > > > > nd t=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > hus
> > > > > > > > >> >> tearing/scarring of the kidney. Mind you I guess if dia=
> lysi=3D
> > > s is=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0tak=3D3D3D

> > > > > > > ing
> > > > > > > > >> >> out the antibodies then that's why. Hmmm interesting.
> >

> > > > > > > > >> >If the antibodies are attacking your kidneys then what's =
> happ=3D
> > > enin=3D3D
> > > > > g
> > > > > > > > >> >with your BP is due to the loss of a specific function of=
> the=3D
> > > =A0kid=3D3D
> > > > > neys=3D3D3D
> > > > > > > ,
> > > > > > > > >> >that being the production of the enzyme renin which is an=
> ess=3D
> > > enti=3D3D
> > > > > al
> > > > > > > > >> >part of your body's Renin-angiotensin system and helps re=
> gula=3D
> > > te y=3D3D
> > > > > our
> > > > > > > > >> >BP under normal circumstances. What is your actual cause =
> of k=3D
> > > idne=3D3D

> > > > > y
> > > > > > > > >> >failure?
> >
> > > > > > > > >>http://www.igansupport.org/faqs.html
> > > > > > > > >> What is IgA Nephropathy?

> > > > > > > > >> Think of your kidneys as small but powerful filtration pla=
> nts =3D
> > > whos=3D3D
> > > > > e
> > > > > > > > >> job is to keep your blood clean and the body=3D3D3D92s che=
> mical =3D
> > > balanc=3D3D
> > > > > e
> > > > > > > > >> maintained. Each day the kidneys process about 200 quarts =
> of f=3D
> > > luid
> > > > > > > > >> through their two million tiny treatment plans, the nephro=
> ns. =3D
> > > With=3D3D
> > > > > in
> > > > > > > > >> the nephron is the glomerulus, a tangle of fine capillarie=
> s th=3D
> > > at
> > > > > > > > >> filter the blood before passing it on to the tubules, wher=
> e th=3D
> > > e
> > > > > > > > >> kidneys continually adjust the filtrate to your body=3D3D3=
> D92s n=3D
> > > eeds, =3D3D
> > > > > adding
> > > > > > > > >> back chemicals removed during filtration or drawing off mo=
> re w=3D
> > > ater=3D3D
> > > > > .
> > > > > > > > >> What=3D3D3D92s needed by the body is returned to the blood=
> stream=3D
> > > ; what=3D3D
> > > > > =3D3D3D92s n=3D3D3D

> > > > > > > ot
> > > > > > > > >> needed is excreted as urine.
> >

> > > > > > > > >> In IgA Nephropathy [IgAN], unknown agents cause the glomer=
> uli =3D
> > > to
> > > > > > > > >> become =3D3D3D97 and to stay =3D3D3D97 inflamed. IgAN is t=
> he world=3D
> > > =3D3D3D92s m=3D3D
> > > > > ost common
> > > > > > > > >> glomerulonephritis [inflammation of the glomeruli], but it=
> s
> > > > > > > > >> pathogenesis [how the disease develops] is not known. IgAN=

> is
> > > > > > > > >> considered to be an immune-complex mediated disorder (or

> > > > > > > > >> immunologically mediated disorder), which means that immun=
> e co=3D
> > > mple=3D3D
> > > > > xes
> > > > > > > > >> may not be the direct cause of the disease but they help b=
> ring=3D
> > > =A0abo=3D3D
> > > > > ut
> > > > > > > > >> the end result, which is widespread inflammation of the ki=
> dney=3D
> > > s.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> Immune complexes form when the body is exposed to an antig=
> en, =3D
> > > such=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0as
> > > > > > > > >> a virus, bacteria, toxin, or even allergen. In response, y=
> our =3D
> > > body
> > > > > > > > >> sends out antibodies, which are immunoglobulins produced b=
> y a =3D
> > > cert=3D3D
> > > > > ain
> > > > > > > > >> class of white blood cells known as B-cells. There are fiv=
> e ma=3D
> > > in
> > > > > > > > >> classes of these immunoglobulins, with IgA [immunoglobulin=
> A] =3D
> > > bein=3D3D
> > > > > g
> > > > > > > > >> the main one directed against bacterial and viral antigens=
> .
> >
> > > > > > > > >> Antibodies lock onto the surfaces of viruses and other for=
> eign=3D
> > > =A0cel=3D3D
> > > > > ls,
> > > > > > > > >> producing antigen-antibody aggregates known as immune comp=
> lexe=3D
> > > s th=3D3D
> > > > > at
> > > > > > > > >> your body targets and attacks. Normally, these immune comp=
> lexe=3D
> > > s
> > > > > > > > >> circulate through the bloodstream until being removed by t=
> he l=3D
> > > iver=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0and
> > > > > > > > >> other organs. In IgAN, however, they become trapped in the=
> glo=3D
> > > meru=3D3D
> > > > > li.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> Once trapped, immune complexes become like magnets for the=
> res=3D
> > > t of=3D3D
> > > > > =3DA0the
> > > > > > > > >> body=3D3D3D92s immune response. Macrophages and other cell=
> s race=3D
> > > =A0to th=3D3D
> > > > > e area
> > > > > > > > >> to release enzymes and generate toxic oxygen radicals that=
> kil=3D
> > > l
> > > > > > > > >> bacteria and viruses but also injure local tissues. Trappe=
> d im=3D
> > > mune
> > > > > > > > >> complexes can also stimulate the overproduction of extrace=
> llul=3D
> > > ar
> > > > > > > > >> matrix, a substance which surrounds and supports tissue ce=
> lls.
> > > > > > > > >> Inflammatory chemicals released during the immune response=
> inc=3D
> > > reas=3D3D
> > > > > e
> > > > > > > > >> the permeability of the glomerular capillary walls, causin=
> g bl=3D
> > > ood
> > > > > > > > >> being filtered in the kidneys to leak protein and fibrinog=
> en.
> > > > > > > > >> Fibrinogen, crucial to the process by which blood clots, d=
> evel=3D
> > > ops =3D3D
> > > > > into
> > > > > > > > >> "crescents," which form scar tissue that obstructs circula=
> tion=3D
> > > =A0thr=3D3D
> > > > > ough
> > > > > > > > >> the glomerulus. Eventually, deprived of blood, the tubules=
> and
> > > > > > > > >> glomerulus die, thus destroying the nephron and forcing ot=
> her =3D
> > > neph=3D3D

> > > > > rons
> > > > > > > > >> to take up its work.
> >

> > > > > > > > >> What happens in IgAN is essentially a vicious cycle: infla=
> mmat=3D
> > > ory
> > > > > > > > >> chemicals increase the permeability of the glomerular capi=
> llar=3D
> > > y wa=3D3D
> > > > > ll,
> > > > > > > > >> and that increased porosity enhances the absorption of oth=
> er c=3D
> > > hemi=3D3D
> > > > > cals
> > > > > > > > >> that stimulate cellular growth and, ultimately, structural=
> dam=3D
> > > age.
> > > > > > > > >> These changes take time because our kidneys have a lot of =
> exce=3D
> > > ss
> > > > > > > > >> capacity built into them. The damage is, however, slowly p=
> rogr=3D
> > > essi=3D3D

> > > > > ve
> > > > > > > > >> and, in the case of sclerosis [scarring], irreversible.
> >

> > > > > > > > >> We do not know what antigen is responsible for triggering =
> IgAN=3D
> > > , no=3D3D
> > > > > r do
> > > > > > > > >> we know whether IgAN results from defects in the body=3D3D=
> 3D92s =3D
> > > creati=3D3D
> > > > > on or
> > > > > > > > >> elimination of immune complexes. There is evidence that im=
> muno=3D
> > > glob=3D3D
> > > > > ulin
> > > > > > > > >> A is overproduced in the bone marrow of IgAN patients; som=
> e pa=3D
> > > tien=3D3D
> > > > > ts
> > > > > > > > >> also show decreased capacity to remove immune complexes fr=
> om t=3D
> > > heir
> > > > > > > > >> systems.
> >
> > > > > > > > >> Because so many IgAN patients have a cold or gastrointesti=
> nal =3D
> > > illn=3D3D
> > > > > ess
> > > > > > > > >> shortly before the onset of symptoms in the kidneys, it is=
> lik=3D
> > > ely =3D3D
> > > > > that
> > > > > > > > >> IgAN starts with an immune response to infectious agents. =
> Perh=3D
> > > aps
> > > > > > > > >> protracted exposure to antigens =3D3D3D97 as in a recurren=
> t vira=3D
> > > l illn=3D3D
> > > > > ess, o=3D3D3D

> > > > > > > r
> > > > > > > > >> the multiple illnesses experienced by some IgAN patients =

> =3D3D3D=3D
> > > 97 sen=3D3D
> > > > > ds the
> > > > > > > > >> immune system into overdrive. The blood of IgAN patients o=
> ften=3D
> > > =A0sho=3D3D
> > > > > ws
> > > > > > > > >> high concentrations of IgA antibodies to a type of protein=
> fou=3D
> > > nd i=3D3D
> > > > > n
> > > > > > > > >> many bacteria, as well as antibodies to many viruses. Cert=
> ain =3D
> > > viru=3D3D
> > > > > ses,
> > > > > > > > >> once established in the body as a low-level chronic infect=
> ion,=3D
> > > =A0cou=3D3D
> > > > > ld
> > > > > > > > >> serve as a continuing source of antigen for the formation =
> of
> > > > > > > > >> additional IgA immune complexes =3D3D3D97 and for the perp=
> etuati=3D
> > > on of =3D3D
> > > > > injury
> > > > > > > > >> to the kidneys. It is quite common for IgAN to present aft=
> er a=3D
> > > n
> > > > > > > > >> individual has had an illness such as strep throat, ear in=
> fect=3D
> > > ion,
> > > > > > > > >> etc., that was treated with antibiotics. Antibiotics are e=
> ffec=3D
> > > tive
> > > > > > > > >> against bacteria but not against viruses and can even supp=
> ress=3D
> > > =A0the
> > > > > > > > >> immune system as far as viral infections are concerned, pe=
> rhap=3D

> > > s
> > > > > > > > >> allowing a viral infection to become ...
> >

> > > > > > > > >> read more =3D3D3DBB
> >
> > > > > > > > >Thanks for the input on that condition, sounds really nasty,=
> and=3D
> > > =A0as

> > > > > > > > >bad as, if not worse than my Polycystic Kidney Disease.
> >

> > > > > > > > Nah not so bad. Diagnosed in 1993 and now down to 30% so in t=
> he g=3D
> > > rand
> > > > > > > > scheme of things I have been lucky so far. The only downside,=
> wel=3D
> > > l
> > > > > > > > quite a major one, is the fatigue..running on empty all the t=
> ime =3D
> > > aint
> > > > > > > > no fun. But no pain or real problems to speak of so I have to=
> cou=3D
> > > nt m=3D3D
> > > > > y
> > > > > > > > blessings :)
> >
> > > > > > > > Polycystic Kidney Disease sounds much worse! Often in the ear=
> ly d=3D
> > > ays
> > > > > > > > of the original IgAN (not the snotty nosed little dictator ru=
> n
> > > > > > > > canadian job we now see that copied it) forum some people com=
> plai=3D
> > > ned
> > > > > > > > of flank pain... I wonder if that was caused by the kidneys b=
> ecom=3D
> > > ing
> > > > > > > > enlarged for some reason along the lines of a cyst but it was=

> not
> > > > > > > > known at the time? If not I wonder why the pain!
> >

> > > > > > > Flank pain is a problem with a lot of kidney patients, and is o=

> ften
> > > > > > > due to infection in the kidneys.
> >

> > > > > > > In PKD It can also be associated with cysts bleeding or rupturi=
> ng, =3D
> > > and
> > > > > > > when that happens you can end up pissing blood (pardon my Frenc=
> h).
> >
> > > > > > > It happened to me last year after being elbowed in the back by =

> an
> > > > > > > impatient passenger trying to get off the bus I was on.
> >

> > > > > > > When I got home I had a rather urgent need for the toilet, more=

> so
> > > > > > > than I'd had in years.
> >

> > > > > > > Standing there I started urinating and it immediately felt wron=

> g,
> > > > > > > rather sticky and thick.
> >
> > > > > > > I looked down, and saw what appeared to be just blood.
> >
> > > > > > > Not so much blood in the urine, as urine in the blood.
> >

> > > > > > > So I took myself off to the A&E of the hospital where I was dia=
> lysi=3D

> > > ng,
> > > > > > > got admitted and remained there for six days.
> >

> > > > > > > The longest time I've ever spent in hospital in my 53 years of =
> life=3D

> > > .
> >
> > > > > > That must have been very stressful.
> >

> > > > > > One thing that you should have tested at least once per year is y=

> our
> > > > > > parathyroid gland.
> >
> > > > > Way ahead of you there.
> >
> > > > > By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.
> >
> > > > > It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.
> >
> > > > > And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.
> >
> > > > > Your PTH is tested every three months.
> >
> > > > > > I had a good friend and neighbor that had kidney

> > > > > > failure for about 10 years before he died related to a heart atta=
> ck. =3D
> > > He
> > > > > > was doing very well until his parathyroid gland developed a major=
> dis=3D
> > > orde=3D3D
> > > > > r
> > > > > > that caused him to lose most of the calcium that was in his bones=
> . He
> > > > > > developed a MAJOR case of osteoporosis. It's a long story but his=
> doc=3D
> > > tors
> > > > > > took over a year before they figured out that his parathyroid gla=

> nd
> > > > > > malfunction was the source of the osteoporosis.
> >
> > > > > Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.
> >
> > > > > Did his family take any action against those doctors?
> >
> > > > > > Don't let that happen to you.
> >
> > > > > It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my side.
> >
> > > > > > Dr. Walser discusses that subject in his book.
> >
> > > > > I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with.
> >

> > > > If you get your parathyroid gland checked once per year--you won't ha=
> ve t=3D

> > > o
> > > > worry about it. Also, if you develop bone, joint, muscle or tendon

> > > > problems--get it tested ASAP. My neighbor developed bone probems it a=

> nd
> > > > his stupid nephrologist said it was a normal case of Arthritis (aka
> > > > osteoarthritis).
> >
> > > You're repeating yourself without having read what I posted.
> >
> > Yes, I did--you mentioned "worry" in one of your sentences.
>
> Go back and read the whole damn post.

OK--I just done it--if you choose to don't buy medical books or be worried
about medical problems--so be it. There are lots of people that don't
worry about medical problems. My relative told me about a neighbor that
was 85 years old and did not read any books about bone diseases that very
old people usally develop. Guess what? She did not take any calcium pills
or vit. D so ended up developing osteoporos. She was shocked when her
doctor told her that she had it.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 4, 5:19 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <cd7a4306-d15a-480a-8bd4-b2222eced...@m15g2000vbh.googlegroups.com>,

Let me repeat what I posted, at least the part you still seem to be
ignoring.

You posted "One thing that you should have tested at least once per
year is your parathyroid gland."

To which I replied:

"Way ahead of you there.

By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.

It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.

And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.

Your PTH is tested every three months."

That is part that you missed.

And when you said about your friend dying, I replied with:

"Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.

Did his family take any action against those doctors?"

And when you said "don't let this happen to you"

I replied with "It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my
side."

And when you mentioned a book you reckoned I should get.

I replied with "I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with."

So you see you haven't addressed the whole of my previous post.

You've just focussed on one part and blown it up out of all proportion.

[Jason]

In article
<20483860-c3ec-45d4...@n19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

Devils Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:


> Let me repeat what I posted, at least the part you still seem to be
> ignoring.
>
> You posted "One thing that you should have tested at least once per
> year is your parathyroid gland."
>
> To which I replied:
>
> "Way ahead of you there.
>
> By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.
>
> It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.
>
> And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.
>
> Your PTH is tested every three months."
>
> That is part that you missed.
>
> And when you said about your friend dying, I replied with:
>
> "Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.
>
> Did his family take any action against those doctors?"
>
> And when you said "don't let this happen to you"
>
> I replied with "It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my
> side."
>
> And when you mentioned a book you reckoned I should get.
>
> I replied with "I don't by medical books to worry myself silly with."
>
> So you see you haven't addressed the whole of my previous post.
>
> You've just focussed on one part and blown it up out of all proportion.

I am glad to have learned that your PTH is tested every three months. I
wish that ALL American nephrologists ran the same test on their patients
that have kidney failure.

No, the wife of that man did not sue the stupid doctor. I don't know the
reason why she did not sue that doctor. Mary and I don't like talking to
her about that subject since it gets her very upset. We discuss other
subjects.

Thanks for your concern about that family.

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 5, 7:16 am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article

> <20483860-c3ec-45d4-9f87-ec4a4b08c...@n19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,

It concerns me that no action was taken as a result of such
incompetence.

If I become aware of incompetence in any renal patient's treatment I
go to the person, or people, responsible.

I talk to them calmly and reasonably, I explain to them what I know
about what has happened.

I then tell them the worst that could happen if such a mistake was
made in the treatment of more vulnerable patients.

I tell them of the effect this would have on that patient's family,
friends and loved ones.

And what could happen to them and the hospital if such a worse case
scenario were to arise.

This has been enough on several occasions for significant changes to
be made in policy and procedure to prevent such a worse case scenario
from happening.

I have done this not out of anger, but out of compassion.

And it shows one person can change things, one person can make a
difference.

As I was told many years ago "even the smallest pebble can start an
avalanche".

I am that pebble.

[Jason]

In article
<4b4da6d8-d9e0-44e6...@d7g2000vbl.googlegroups.com>, Devils
Advocaat <manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

In America--the main doctors that are sued are the ones that kill the
patient during surgery. They also get sued for cutting off the wrong arms
or legs.

If a patient dies several years later--it's difficult to prove that the
doctor caused that death. That is what happened in this case. The patient
died about 3 years AFTER the doctor failed to run PTH test when the doctor
was informed that his patient was having bone problems. It took the doctor
about a year before he rean the PTH test. The doctor honestly did believe
it was a normal case of arthritis.

[Pendrag0n]

Not in the UK you aint. They couldnt give a toss about patients, least
of all the old and vulnerable. Killing us off in droves and not a darn
thing can be done about it. A promise is a comfort to a fool. They
killed my father through neglect in 1998. Promised the world and how
things had changed. Exactly the same things are happening today in the
NHS. Lots of people getting paid top dollar sure enough. But very few
doing the job they are paid to do.

[Jason]

In article <662aq710nd0crdfor...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

It's my opinion (and I hope that I am wrong) that the same sorts of things
will happen in America once ObamaCare has fully kicked in. The best
evidence for that opinion is what is presently happening in regard to
Medicare which is also a federal government program. The pay-outs to
doctors are so low that many doctors refuse to treat patients that are on
Medicare. I help my neighbor to take care of her 81 year old disabled
father. He recently fell down and got a major cut on head. We called an
ambulance and they took him to the emergency room. Her daughter guessed
that Medicare would pay for it. She was 100% incorrect. She had to pay
about $1000.00. One poster in another newsgroup told us we needed to buy a
Medicare supplement policy to pay the costs that Medicare would not pay.

It's my guess that ObamaCare will be very much like Medicare. Killing off
old people will probably eventually be a part of it. For example if a 59
year old man and a 40 year old man both need heart transplants--they will
give the heart to the 40 year old man or any other person that is 40 to 50
years old.

[mainframetech]

On May 5, 1:11 pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> In article <662aq710nd0crdforpsp7hj5pr3kv21...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n

Medicare (which I use) has been an 80% patyment for years. So the
problem is the charges the hospital and the doctors bill that is out
of line. If $1,000 had to be paid, then there waqs $5,000 billed.
Seems high to me, but that's the way it has worked for years. If a
number of doctors quit taking care of Medicare patients, then there
will be more for the ones that will, filling out their schedules.

Since they have mechanical hearts to implant until a real heart is
available, there will not be people dying while waiting for a heart.
http://www.syncardia.com/

And don't forget the 'death panel' scam the republicans pulled on
everyone atthe beginning of the discussion for the new Healthcare
law. I know myself because I looked up and read the new bill and
found that 'death panels' was a scam to scare people away from the new
bill. An interesting statistic is:
http://www.pensitoreview.com/2011/02/10/its-a-politifact-republicans-lie-a-lot-more-than-democrats/

I see (at various times) about 3-4 doctors and not one of them has
quit taking Medicare patients. I hear of few that do it, so I think
that is one of the exaggerations that is used to scare people away
from the new law. Hopefully it will survive the Supreme Court, who
are clearly biased toward the conservatives.

Chris

[Jason]

In article
<efe29056-cba7-46e2...@p21g2000vby.googlegroups.com>,
mainframetech <mainfr...@yahoo.com> wrote:

> On May 5, 1:11=A0pm, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > In article <662aq710nd0crdforpsp7hj5pr3kv21...@4ax.com>, Pendrag0n
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> > > On Fri, 4 May 2012 23:25:42 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
> > > <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:
> >
> > > >On May 5, 7:16=A0am, Ja...@nospam.com (Jason) wrote:
> > > >> In article
> > > >> <20483860-c3ec-45d4-9f87-ec4a4b08c...@n19g2000yqk.googlegroups.com>,
> >
> > > >> Devils Advocaat <mankygo...@gmail.com> wrote:

> > > >> > Let me repeat what I posted, at least the part you still seem to b=
> e
> > > >> > ignoring.
> >
> > > >> > You posted "One thing that you should have tested at least once pe=

> r
> > > >> > year is your parathyroid gland."
> >
> > > >> > To which I replied:
> >
> > > >> > "Way ahead of you there.
> >
> > > >> > By the way, it's not the gland that is tested.
> >
> > > >> > It's the level of the hormone it produces that is tested.
> >
> > > >> > And here in the UK, if you are on dialysis.
> >
> > > >> > Your PTH is tested every three months."
> >
> > > >> > That is part that you missed.
> >
> > > >> > And when you said about your friend dying, I replied with:
> >
> > > >> > "Sorry to hear you lost your friend to such incompetence.
> >
> > > >> > Did his family take any action against those doctors?"
> >
> > > >> > And when you said "don't let this happen to you"
> >
> > > >> > I replied with "It won't, I've a great team of professionals on my
> > > >> > side."
> >
> > > >> > And when you mentioned a book you reckoned I should get.
> >

> > > >> > I replied with "I don't by medical books to worry myself silly wit=

> h."
> >
> > > >> > So you see you haven't addressed the whole of my previous post.
> >

> > > >> > You've just focussed on one part and blown it up out of all propor=
> tion.
> >
> > > >> I am glad to have learned that your PTH is tested every three months=
> . I
> > > >> wish that ALL American nephrologists ran the same test on their pati=

> ents
> > > >> that have kidney failure.
> >

> > > >> No, the wife of that man did not sue the stupid doctor. I don't know=
> the
> > > >> reason why she did not sue that doctor. Mary and I don't like talkin=
> g to
> > > >> her about that subject since it gets her very upset. We discuss othe=

> > It's my opinion (and I hope that I am wrong) that the same sorts of thing=

> s
> > will happen in America once ObamaCare has fully kicked in. The best
> > evidence for that opinion is what is presently happening in regard to
> > Medicare which is also a federal government program. The pay-outs to
> > doctors are so low that many doctors refuse to treat patients that are on
> > Medicare. I help my neighbor to take care of her 81 year old disabled
> > father. He recently fell down and got a major cut on head. We called an
> > ambulance and they took him to the emergency room. Her daughter guessed
> > that Medicare would pay for it. She was 100% incorrect. She had to pay

> > about $1000.00. One poster in another newsgroup told us we needed to buy =

> a
> > Medicare supplement policy to pay the costs that Medicare would not pay.
> >
> > It's my guess that ObamaCare will be very much like Medicare. Killing off
> > old people will probably eventually be a part of it. For example if a 59
> > year old man and a 40 year old man both need heart transplants--they will

> > give the heart to the 40 year old man or any other person that is 40 to 5=

> 0
> > years old.
>
> Medicare (which I use) has been an 80% patyment for years. So the
> problem is the charges the hospital and the doctors bill that is out
> of line. If $1,000 had to be paid, then there waqs $5,000 billed.
> Seems high to me, but that's the way it has worked for years. If a
> number of doctors quit taking care of Medicare patients, then there
> will be more for the ones that will, filling out their schedules.
>
> Since they have mechanical hearts to implant until a real heart is
> available, there will not be people dying while waiting for a heart.
> http://www.syncardia.com/
>
> And don't forget the 'death panel' scam the republicans pulled on
> everyone atthe beginning of the discussion for the new Healthcare
> law. I know myself because I looked up and read the new bill and
> found that 'death panels' was a scam to scare people away from the new
> bill. An interesting statistic is:

> http://www.pensitoreview.com/2011/02/10/its-a-politifact-republicans-lie-a-=

> lot-more-than-democrats/
>
> I see (at various times) about 3-4 doctors and not one of them has
> quit taking Medicare patients. I hear of few that do it, so I think
> that is one of the exaggerations that is used to scare people away
> from the new law. Hopefully it will survive the Supreme Court, who
> are clearly biased toward the conservatives.
>
> Chris

Time will tell.

[Devils Advocaat]

I'm sorry you lost your father, I truly am.

May I ask what was wrong with him?

And also the circumstances under which he passed away?

[Pendrag0n]

Thank you. It's OK..being Christian we know we're born to die and get
to a better place if we work at it so.......

>May I ask what was wrong with him?

He had a stroke a few years previous that paralyzed his speech and
left side. Which as it happens he coped with really well, considering
how active and outdoorsy he was. There was a sorry tale of
incompetence from the doctors regards his general care anyway post
stroke. Anyway..he went in to hospital because he had a terrible pain
in his side roughly where the appendix were but it was not appendix.
They found a lump the size of a tennis ball but took a week of
constant hassle and cock ups to get him scanned. They never fed him,
just left the food on the side and then marked the sheet as fed or did
not want. Bearing in mind he could not speak or move to get the food
and bearing in mind we are a large family and so were constantly on
the case. I even had to go and make an official complaint to the
hospital manager, but by then it was all too late as he was now too
ill to operate anyway. Two weeks it took him to die, when the lump
burst and poisoned him.

You can imagine what goes on with those who have no one to speak up
for them!

Despite all this blatant neglect there was still nothing we could do
about it and the hospitals know it. The whole system is rotten. The
best we could ever do was take out a private case for compensation,
and even then the maximum you could claim was £7k. Scandalous. As I
say a decade on and its still happening all over the NHS.

It was also then we noticed in his records he had a DNR (Do Not
Resuscitate) tag placed by a previous hospital when he had the stroke.
This was a scandal at the time that hit the NHS when it became known
that doctors were doing this without patients/family knowledge. I
guess they have written off the elderly long ago.

Even if you manage to keep out of the hospitals, The care homes are
killing them off through neglect as well.

Nothing great about Britain any more.

[mainframetech]

On May 6, 1:12 pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 May 2012 09:54:29 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>
>
>
>
>

Lack of care in old age homes is a problem in the USA too. Many
unscrupulous owners buy the homes and charge medicare a ton for all
sorts of things that they are not really using, and their attendants
are treating the patients like dirt, beating them and all sorts of
stuff. Evey now and then a state goes on a rampage and fines a bunch
of them and they pay off and go right back to business as usual.

Chris

[Pendrag0n]

Same, old, same old here. I think in Europe it's different, they do
seem to have more care and compassion. But then money is not their
God, yet I suppose!

The thing is I guess whilst we still vote for people who will never
need Medicare/NHS and who will never have to go in to a state funded
care home, or their families the we only have ourselves to blame.
Currently in the UK we have CONservatives in power and the first thing
they do is cut all the services Mr Average needs and uses, but which
they will never need themselves. Right across the board, from Police
to Health.

Who's really to blame. The arseholes we vote for, or us!

Mind you where are all the decent people to vote for!

[Devils Advocaat]

On May 6, 6:12 pm, Pendrag0n <nom...@thnx.com> wrote:
> On Sun, 6 May 2012 09:54:29 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>
>

I agree with you that some staff, in some hospitals and care homes
aren't doing things right. But just because some are doesn't mean they
all are.

I know a lot of DNRs were put on record without proper consultation
with patients and their families, and people died as a consequence.

And changes on a large scale take time, but changes are happening.

To make these changes takes people, people who have the courage to say
"this is wrong".

The wrong doers hope such people will never speak up, or stand their
ground.

When I was a pre-dialysis patient I was told very little about the
plan for my dialysis, or what social or psychological help was
available.

Now, just over a year later because I pointed out that leaving people
in the dark about such things leads to more distress, upset and
trauma, it's different.

People are now being told these things in advance, all because certain
people listened to me and took the appropriate action.

A small change, in only one clinic, in one hospital, undoubtedly.

But a worthwhile change, as it makes a big difference for a lot of
people.

And that's just one change influenced by my standing up, not for
myself, but for others.

[mainframetech]

Well, if you think about it, the conservatives stop all the services
for the lower income people to make money available to gift the
wealthy with more lovelies...:) Can't have all that money wasted on
the dregs of the world...:)

Chris

[Pendrag0n]

On Mon, 7 May 2012 01:55:13 -0700 (PDT), Devils Advocaat
<manky...@gmail.com> wrote:

>> >May I ask what was wrong with him?
>>
>> He had a stroke a few years previous that paralyzed his speech and
>> left side. Which as it happens he coped with really well, considering
>> how active and outdoorsy he was. There was a sorry tale of
>> incompetence from the doctors regards his general care anyway post
>> stroke.  Anyway..he went in to hospital because he had a terrible pain
>> in his side roughly where the appendix were but it was not appendix.
>> They found a lump the size of a tennis ball but took a week of
>> constant hassle and cock ups to get him scanned. They never fed him,
>> just left the food on the side and then marked the sheet as fed or did
>> not want. Bearing in mind he could not speak or move to get the food
>> and bearing in mind we are a large family and so were constantly on
>> the case. I even had to go and make an official complaint to the
>> hospital manager, but by then it was all too late as he was now too
>> ill to operate anyway. Two weeks it took him to die, when the lump
>> burst and poisoned him.
>>
>> You can imagine what goes on with those who have no one to speak up
>> for them!
>>
>> Despite all this blatant neglect there was still nothing we could do
>> about it and the hospitals know it. The whole system is rotten. The
>> best we could ever do was take out a private case for compensation,

>> and even then the maximum you could claim was Ł7k. Scandalous. As I

>> say a decade on and its still happening all over the NHS.
>>
>> It was also then we noticed in his records he had a DNR (Do Not
>> Resuscitate) tag placed by a previous hospital when he had the stroke.
>> This was a scandal at the time that hit the NHS when it became known
>> that doctors were doing this without patients/family knowledge. I
>> guess they have written off the elderly long ago.
>>
>> Even if you manage to keep out of the hospitals, The care homes are
>> killing them off through neglect as well.
>>
>> Nothing great about Britain any more.
>
>I agree with you that some staff, in some hospitals and care homes
>aren't doing things right. But just because some are doesn't mean they
>all are.

Of course not. Well, I seriously hope not. Sadly in my case I have yet
to see any improvements. Though I did see a brilliant endocrinologist
a few months back who gave me a thorough workout. I am now without a
nephrologist cos the tart did not like me helping myself. She was fine
until I ask her for an opinion on certain supplements and lifestyle
changes and she just did not even answer the letters. Three times I
wrote, until finally she replied saying would I like to meet her with
the patient body!!! That's ok I thought. I just change nephrologist.
The next guy was an ass, and said he does not need to see me again. I
have been under a nephrologist since 1993! And that's it. I tried to
go back to the devil I knew, but another consultant, but he had
clearly been nobbled and said he did not need to see me either!
Currently going through the complaints process. Because as you say we
have to try and make a stand. I'm too tired to keep fighting.

Macmillan nurse killed my mother off by giving her fentanyl as a
painkiller, when she was on paracetamol. Nothing should have been
given to her without running it by me first. Her pupils had gone to
pinpricks and her hands were raised shaking lying in bed, and no one
said a thing. I'd left her a few days before fit as a fiddle, though
very weak from cancer treatment and Alzheimer. Within days she was
dead. No one did anything, and cares even less.

My GPs are assess and dont have a clue about anything. There are 4 in
the surgery and only one is any good and you have to wait months to
see him as a consequence.

> lot of DNRs were put on record without proper consultation
>with patients and their families, and people died as a consequence.
>
>And changes on a large scale take time, but changes are happening.

I've yet to see it in over a decade of looking hard. Lots of lip
service. Wow tons and tons of it. I can only speak for myself, and as
I find of course.

http://tinyurl.com/c6f2kzt

>To make these changes takes people, people who have the courage to say
>"this is wrong".

There are plenty of people complaining

>The wrong doers hope such people will never speak up, or stand their
>ground.
>
>When I was a pre-dialysis patient I was told very little about the
>plan for my dialysis, or what social or psychological help was
>available.
>
>Now, just over a year later because I pointed out that leaving people
>in the dark about such things leads to more distress, upset and
>trauma, it's different.
>
>People are now being told these things in advance, all because certain
>people listened to me and took the appropriate action.
>
>A small change, in only one clinic, in one hospital, undoubtedly.
>
>But a worthwhile change, as it makes a big difference for a lot of
>people.
>
>And that's just one change influenced by my standing up, not for
>myself, but for others.

Quite right too. We're only a tiny minority though. 95% dont say
anything, or worse dont even realise the care is crap. Especially they
old. Doctors were always placed on a pedestal and they would never
even dare ask questions of them, let alone doubt what they said.

What happens to us though when we need someone to speak up for us! I'm
sure there will be something in our notes, in code...kill off ASAP :)

[Pendrag0n]

And it's so blatant too. I'm shocked we just stand by (apart from
OCCUPY) yet most of the worlds peasants are kicking ass!! How weird is
that! Two strongest nations in the world have the sheep just where
they want us and we cant see it.

[mainframetech]

Well I think over time the world of the 99% will go back to
supplements and voodoo magic and throw over all the medical community
and tell them to wash the floors. Then we'll be back at the
beginning.

Chris

[Pendrag0n]

I don't think so now. The Empire has gone and the peasants now know
they can fight back rather than playing the humble servants. The whole
world thinks it's top dog now and that will be our demise.Too many
chiefs and not enough Indians. I forsee MAD MAX/LOST IN NEW YORK
syndrome happening sooner than later. Probably after China has taken
over the world, but before God vents his anger on us.

All in all even with CKD we aint doing too bad :)

[mainframetech]

True. Things could always be worse...:)

Chris