headphone to telecoil review: Music Link vs HATIS EPIC bakeoff
zaf...@yahoo.com
a few days, but feel confident on the following comparison. If there
are others comparable devices to these, post them here, maybe I’ll
give them a try next time I have money burning a holde in my pocket.
Executive summary, The HATIS work very well, the music links are OK,
with a small DIY modification they should be much improved. If you’re
short on coin, you might try the music link mod, or even build you own
(at the bottom).
The Music Links are tiny. Imagine 75mm of wire coat hanger bent into
a hook that hangs on your ear. The coupling coil is very small in
diameter and is fully contained in the diameter of the hook. They are
also very light. When ideally positioned against a BTE coupling is
good to excellent. The problem is that they are so small and light
they are difficult to keep in the optimal location. If they pivot
even a 5 or 10 mm coupling will be reduced, often significantly, the
sound will become greatly diminished (or even be gone completely). If
you are other then sitting with your head still, you can bet sooner or
later, you will be reaching to your ear to reposition the Music
Links. The hook design does not keep the coil aligned to the hearing
aid and as a result you find getting them placed optimally is more
then just hooking them on the ear, you will need to move them around
until you hit the ‘sweet spot’. Since the Music Links are so
sensitive to placement, there will be variability as well with the BTE
being used (they may work better or worse for you).
The HATIS are big compared to the music links. Imaging a very large
BTE squashed down to ~4mm thick and that’s the size of the HATIS.
Like the Music Links, they hook on the ear but since it is shaped like
a BTE, so it sits right next to your instrument and cannot cower
around the back of the ear like the music links. I have’nt taken them
apart, but it certainly looks like they coil is laid out in the
opposite direction of the music links. For you Maxell fans, this puts
the field directly through the BTE. The result is the coupling is
better when anecdotally placed compared to an optimally placed Music
Link. In fact I am surprised the telecoils can even sound to good!
The HATIS tends not to move around as much as the music links due to
their size and weight, I suspect they would even be OK for a running.
While they are large, I am able to wear them comfortably even while
wearing eyeglasses (my BTE is an America Hears Freedom, which is a
very large instrument). If you are already tight behind the ear, the
HATIS may be a problem where the Music Link will fit without a problem
in the tightest space.
Secondary items:
The HATIS has to be run ‘inboard’ or ‘outboard’ of the BTE due to it’s
design, I find both work equally well. Running it outboard makes it
more difficult to get at the adjustments on the instrument and also
make it more visible. The ML are small and move around enough you
don’t even know weather they are inboard or outboard at any one time.
In fact the way they stay in place best is to place the hook across
the earhook of the BTE rather then over the ear itself. On my large
instruments, this reduces coupling, but may work well for smaller
instruments.
The HATIS has beefy overmolded strain reliefs where the wire goes into
the earpiece or headphone jack. The music link has no such strain
relief on the earpiece. I did have my music link ‘disemboweled’ when
my dog jumped up on me and the coil was ripped out of the hook. The
overmold on the HATIS looks beefy enough that it would have been
intact (then again, my ear would be the loser here!). The wire used
on the HATIS is stiffer and thicker, making it harder to coil and put
away. When it is uncoiled, it tends to keep its coiled shape somewhat,
making it harder to manage. The Music Links use a thinner wire and
the insulation is more rubbery, it coils and stores nicely. The
length of the cord on the music links is adequate for most use; about
3’. When I use my cargo pants and put my ipod in the lower pocket,
this is too short though. The HATIS cord is around 5’; longer then
you should ever need. The longer length and stiffer wire make the
coiling and storage of the HATIS the only area where the Music Links
have a big advantage.
If you’re not concerned what they look like, you might try one of the
following DIY projects.
Easy DIY Project (Music Link mod)
Now that I have tried both, I think the Music links could be easily be
improved as a DIY project just by building a widget to position it
better. Before I got the HATIS I was thinking of trying to build a
clip for them to keep them on the instrument optimally. Now that I
see how well the HATIS stays put due to it’s size and weighting, there
should be no reason the Music Link could not be likewise positioned.
Position the Music Link optimally and have someone take a photo of
where it rests on your instrument. Now your job is to get the ML
attached to something that will hang off your ear and naturally be in
this location. Hot melt it to a cleverly cut piece or plastic, imbed
it in modeling clay so it fits perfectly against your ears, there are
probably many other options. I suspect this will improve the ML
significantly, but I think the HATIS will still have the edge due to
the orientation of the coil.
Hard DIY Project (Roll your own)
You may think these devices are some high tech magic based on their
high prices. Nope. They’re simply coils of wire encased in plastic,
one for each ear. If you have the time and patience, you should be
able to make one for scratch. The toughest part will be winding the
coils. You will need hundreds of turns of fine wire. They do make
special wire for this called magnet wire, but finding someone to sell
you a few hundred feet may be tough. If you’re interested in doing
this, read up on DIY coil winding. Don’t worry so much about the coil
inductance, but shoot for about 25 ohms for each of the coils. You
may be able to get creative and use a sewing machine bobbin winder to
help you wind the coil. Wind the coil on a bobbin that will allow you
to form the coil such that the windings on the coil roughly trace the
perimeter of your instrument. Once the coil is formed, epoxy or
otherwise immobilize the wires or it will surely become a tangled mess
in no time. BTW, if the wire breaks or you get a single point where
the wires short to each other in the coil, the whole coil is useless.
Build a widget that will hold the coil such that the coil when hanging
on your ear traces the perimeter of your instrument, cut the speakers
off an old set of headphones & connect. You should have something
comparable to the HATIS.
shortspark
have said. They are comfortable and one does not notice they are
wearing them after a while. However, I agree, they slip from the "sweet
spot" often and I have wondered how to sort of attach them to my BTE. I
have large hearing aids and the HATIS might not be right for me as my
ear is naturally quite close to my head as is. The problem with the
Music Link is that it is for music applications only and not for use
with phones.
My CLA7 t-loop is what I use for phones however, they give the listener
feedback and poor reception. As a caller I do not noitce this but the
folks at the other end do. The CLA7 is powered and hangs over the neck
which is not as appealing as something small and right next to the ear.
The nice thing is it can be used for both audio devices and phones with
jacks, which I guess the HATIS does also. I consider both the Music
Link and CLA7 to be compromises. If the HATIS fits me, this might be
the best of both worlds.
MARTY
Ken
For radio/music/tv (and my Ameriphone dialogue XL-50) it is hard to
beat big, comfortable headphones - using t-coil, mike or both. And no
need to worry about sweet spots!
zaf...@yahoo.com
> For radio/music/tv (and my Ameriphone dialogue XL-50) it is hard to
> beat big, comfortable headphones - using t-coil, mike or both. And no
> need to worry about sweet spots!- Hide quoted text -
>
> - Show quoted text -
Do you wear BTEs? I've tried many headphones, including a set of
Steinhausers that were very comfy. Never got any of the comfy ones to
work worth a darn via the mics. I have had limited success using el
cheapo headphones placed over the BTE (not the ear).
I've never tried the telecoil on a big set of headphones, I think
you're on to something there. The HATIS & MLs do have the advantage
in that they are very portable.
zaf...@yahoo.com
MLs. If phone jacks use the same style connection only in mono, you
can buy an adapter at radioshack that will plug into a mono jack and
let you use a stereo headset with.
Find a piece of cardboard ~ 4mm thick and see if it fits behind your
ear, if so the HATIS should be OK. The ML mod is also pretty simple,
you might give that a try, you should be able to construct something
that can be undone if it does not work out. Also, the coil on the ML
is at the bottom, the cylindrical area where the wire enters, the
flatter section that forms the hook can be cut off, which will give
you more options, then again this cannot be undone.
Ken
BTEs for about 20 years. The secret is to find headphones with big fat
cushions - they exist - and high sensitivity. Two reasons for big
cushions - comfort and keeping out background noise. And to enclose
the mike - presumably that is why yours did not work. I have, as i
said, used mike, t-coil and both. But mostly I simply put on the
headphones and use the normal program. Works for me.
EKD...@gmail.com
telephones? http://www.tecear.com/TLink.htm. I am trying the dual ear
hooks. I have Phonak Savia Art BTEs and wear glasses. With manual T-
coil engaged, and T-link plugged into the headphone jack of my Dect. 6
Panasonic cordless phone set to max volume, I can *sometimes* hear a
dial tone if I place the hooks right on top of the microphones of the
BTEs. I have tried hooking on the ears, next to the BTEs but I simply
don't get a sound. I am about to return them but will wait to see if
anyone has any suggestions.
If this is too off topic, let me know and I'll start a new topic.
Eva
Ken
> This is perhaps off-topic, but have any of you tried the T-Link for
> hooks. I have Phonak Savia Art BTEs and wear glasses. With manual T-
> coil engaged, and T-link plugged into the headphone jack of my Dect. 6
> Panasonic cordless phone set to max volume, I can *sometimes* hear a
> dial tone if I place the hooks right on top of the microphones of the
> BTEs. I have tried hooking on the ears, next to the BTEs but I simply
> don't get a sound. I am about to return them but will wait to see if
> anyone has any suggestions.
>
> If this is too off topic, let me know and I'll start a new topic.
> Eva
Not off topic. But, if your phone has a headphone jack why not try the
obvious - headphones? That is what I do - see above.
true911
> obvious - headphones? That is what I do - see above.
Hi, I'm new here, just been lurking for awhile, but this conversation
is right at the core of my current interest...
leI would agree with the big, closed, studio style headset (great
sensitivity) for absolute listening quality. However, they're really
bulky for, say, using a mobile phone while at the store or whatever.
The missing link, as I see it, is an amplified version of a T-link-
type device -- which I have not found yet. :) The CLA7's
amplification makes up for the minimal power output of most cell
phones at the 2.5mm jack, which is important, but unfortunately it's
not an earhook. Perhaps something of this nature could be hacked
together without too much trouble...?
Ken
I agree that big headphones, while great for phone/tv/radio/music, are
not quite it for mobiles/walking around. And, as you say, the volume
put out by many walk-around devices is low for headphones if you have
serious hearing loss. Years ago I made up an in-line amp - you can get
amp modules from places like Tandys and all the necessary cords/
sockets. The end result worked but it was bulky. People like
Plantronics make in-line amps for normal telephones (for the call
centre market) but I fund that these, also, were too weak. With
mobiles, if they are compatible, the Nokia neckloop works and suis
some people. And the Phonak Microlink system (latest versions
bluetooth compatible) is also good, though costly. You can get
information on these and other mobile solutions by searching the group
through Google.
EKD...@gmail.com
Thank you for your reply.
I have not tried plain vanilla, but good headphones mainly because
none of mine have a 2.5 mm connector. Radio Shack does not seem to
have a converter anymore. I'm sure I could find one online somewhere.
One reason I haven't pursued that route is that I thought T-coils
might not work with ordinary headphones. Do they? Or do you need a
special telephone like the Ameriphone dialogue XL-50? Or is the T-coil
not necessary with the special phone?
Eva
Ken
First of all you can get converters between all three(or six, counting
stereo) types of headphone plug. If not Radio Shack (which surprises
me ) try audio shops or (Wal Mart?)or on line:
http://www.proporta.com/F02/PPF02P05.php?t_id=928&t_mode=des. The
latter converts 1/8'' to 2.5mm. (Google is wonderful - I just typed in
headphone plug converters and got hundreds of hits including the one
quoted)
In my experience all headphones work well with T-coils. I'm pretty
sure that only those tiny ear-bud types are non-magnetic. But you can
get good headphones (and they usually come with their own alternate
converter plug) very cheaply - $50 or less. Worth a try (and, for
people with hearing-loss, there is probably little detectable
difference between high-quality headphones and cheaper ones - except,
maybe, if the extra money is for a noise-canceling feature - there
have been reports tot he group that this works for some in some
circumstances). And go for big fat cushions - they make a difference.
What I always say about this sort of problem is: keep trying and you
will find a solution. I have stacks of hardware I have tried for
various problems which did not work but, by trial and error, I usually
manage to get there. And the fact that something works for some people
does not mean it will suit you - we are all different. One of the
strengths of this group is that it throws up, and reviews, possible
solutions. This thread is an example.
EKD...@gmail.com
Grado Labs SR 60 headphones with my Panasonic phone. When I spoke to a
person at Radio Shack about what I was attempting to do, he said a 3.5
mm to 2.5 mm adapter would allow me to listen to music on my cell
phone but without a microphone on the headphone cable, my cordless
Panasonic would not work. I asked if I couldn't just hold the phone to
my mouth and listen with the headphones, but he said that on
connecting the headphones, the phone would look for a microphone and
not finding one would simply not work. Is your experience different?
I'm not trying to listen to music, I'm just trying to understand phone
conversations.
At this point I'm thinking about returning the T-Link. My audiologist
has a Noizfree at her other office. At my next appointment in 2 weeks
I will try it. I'm not too hopeful as the Noizfree seems to be very
similar to the T-Link. A neck loop is another alternative to try.
I appreciate your suggestions and any that others may offer.
Eva
Ken
It is important to distinguish between mobile phones and land-line
ones. With mobiles, the situation is very complex. Most have some sort
of socket for 'hands free' operation - usually in a vehicle - and this
usually connects a mike as well as a speaker. If you search the group
you will find endless posts about difficulties hearing-impaired people
have with mobiles. With land-line phones the situation is more
straightforward. The most common solution is to use a speakerphone -
this works well because, like headphones, it engages both ears. But
not all speakerphones put out enough volume if you are seriously deaf.
I have a Panasonic which does.
But some landline phones have headphone sockets. With these you talk
into the normal handset and listen through the headphones. The
ultimate in this approach is the Ameriphone Dialogue XL series. This
not only has a headphone socket but also a button you can press to
engage an amplifier (and it also has a tone control). For anyone else
it is a normal phone - it even has pre-sets.
I have no knowledge of the specific phone you mention. If it is a
landline phone what you were told seems odd. The usual way of engaging
a mike with a landline phone is to use a heaset (which simply replaces
the handset, but we are talking about quite a different plug/socket
there. In your case I would get hold of a plug converter - they only
cost a few dollars - and give it a try. It gets a little complicated
if your headphones are stereo but you can get converter plugs which
take a stereo plug and have a mono plug at the other end. There is a
possibility that the 2.5 socket does not take a normal plug but
something more like a hands-free plug, like a mobile (which has
contacts for mike as well as speaker).
The Nokia neckloop, as I said, works well with mobiles af you have a
compatible phone. I know several people who changed mobiles so that
they could use this solution.
true911
> Ken, I made an attempt to get an adapter that would allow me to use my
> Grado Labs SR 60 headphones with my Panasonic phone. When I spoke to a
> person at Radio Shack about what I was attempting to do, he said a 3.5
> mm to 2.5 mm adapter would allow me to listen to music on my cell
> phone but without a microphone on the headphone cable, my cordless
> Panasonic would not work. I asked if I couldn't just hold the phone to
> my mouth and listen with the headphones, but he said that on
> connecting the headphones, the phone would look for a microphone and
> not finding one would simply not work. Is your experience different?
Eva, that is exactly correct.
I am in a similar situation, as I attempted to wire my headset jack
output into the "Aux" input in my car stereo. The voice quality was
great, but I quickly ran into your problem with the microphone. I
also found that there is quite a variety of mic standards as well
which continue to stymie my solution. :)
Ken
When you talk handsets you are into another whole ballgame. Handsets
and headsets usually connect to the phone with a plug called an RJ22.
Phones are usually connected to the phone network with n other plug -
usually an RJ11. Most headsets (except aviation ones) come with RJ22
plugs. The RJ family of connectors are often called 'modular'. The way
telephones integrate mike and receiver lines dates back to Graham Bell
and you can read all about this fascinating stuff in 'Understanding
Telephone Electronics' by John Fike and George Friend. Suffice it to
say that when you try to connect Bell system stuff to car or other
audio you are getting into difficult territory. Phones like the
Ameriphone XL series which have a headphone socket bypass this
problem. As I said above, mobiles have to address the same connection
problem for 'hands free' operation but my impression is that the plug
in/outs differ between manufacturers (whereas standard headsets will
plug into any phone which has a RJ22 socket for its handset.
I suspect that this is a lot more than true911 wanted to know, but it
is interesting - I recommend the book referred to above - highly
readable about how the telephone system evolved as well as how it
works.