Mishler's Maharaji tapes. Part 1
David Stirling
This is the first part of a transcript from a radio interview which took
place at the end of 1979 with Bob Mishler, the founding president of
Divine Light Mission in the US.
I realise there's a lot of words here (and this is only a third of the
interview), but to anyone who's interested in the mechanics of cults, it
may provide some useful insights. It should also provide some
entertainment to anyone who, like myself and others who post here, was
once emeshed in the cult.
To give readers an idea of why I'm posting this, I joined DLM in England
in the early '70s when I was a seriously confused 19-year-old and Guru
Maharaji was just 14 and seemed to have all the answers. Like a lot of
other people, I thought he was Jesus returned. It all seemed to make a
lot of sense at the time! I gave up everything to follow the guru and
propogate his message.
I left after three or four years when the guru's mother and three
brothers returned to India in a huff following Maharaji's marriage to a
Californian belle. It seemed ridiculous then, and it seems totally
insane now. I figured that if his holy family couldn't cut it, what
chance did little ol' me have. It also didn't help that the
enlightenment promised proved easier in theory than it did in practice.
For anyone who doesn't know, the rock upon which this cult was formed
was known as the Knowledge. It consisted of four meditation techniques
which involved turning the senses inwards. The theory was (and still is)
that by practicing these techniques, you will eventually reach
enlightenment. (You won't!)
The Knowledge was supposed to be a sort of cosmic key which only the
Master could give to their disciples. Jesus, Buddha, Mohammed and all
the other great religious leaders were said to have offered the very
same techniques to their followers.
I managed to leave the guru behind, but I never quite managed to shake
off the Knowledge. And when you practice the techniques, you think,
maybe he wasn't such a bad guy after all - after all, they're damn fine
techniques. So this interview with someone who really knew Maharaji
offers a unique insight into the real person.
P.S. Mishler died in an air crash, not long after the interview.
DJ: We'll be talking about the religious cult mystique and the Divine
Light Mission. If you don't know what the Divine Light Mission is, it
is an organisation that was established by people who follow the Guru
Maharaji. He is an Indian, and he came over to this country some seven
years ago to establish his mission. In that period of time, the goals
of the Divine Light Mission have changed. The attitude of people in the
Divine Light Mission has changed and has now become something entirely
different. That difference is something that we are going to discuss
this morning with Bob Mishler. Bob, welcome to the show.
Bob Mishler: Thank you, Gary.
DJ: Let's talk a little bit about this. It started about seven years
ago, is that right?
BM: About seven and a half years ago. It was in the summer of 1971,
when he first came to the United States.
DJ: And at that time, he was fourteen years old.
BM: He was thirteen, actually.
DJ: And his brother and his mother were selling him as a perfect master.
BM: Well, yes, you could say that! At that time, he was saying that
he was the perfect master. On his first trip actually, his mother and
brother did not accompany him. He came by himself. People in the
United States got their first chance to meet them in 1972 when they came
back, and it was then apparent that they were in fact running things.
DJ: All right, let's talk about this. There was a time when he had a
large number of followers.
BM: Yes, there was a time. In fact, when he came to the United States
in 1971, you could say that this country was very ripe for that sort of
thing. In fact, I remember seeing him in Boulder in August of 1971. At
that time, every spiritual leader from anywhere in the world who
happened to come to the United States would come through Boulder. When
Maharaji came, at least 2,000 people came to see him on his very first
appearance at Mackie Auditorium in Boulder. During the course of those
few years, between 1971 and 1974, we probably initiated something
between 50 and 60,000 people in the United States in Denver.
DJ: That many in Denver?
BM: In Colorado we had a large following. In fact, in the summer of
1972 we had one programme which lasted for several days. We held it in
Montrose, Colorado, in an outdoor type thing with a stage out in a
field. At that programme alone, we initiated 2,000 people.
DJ: When the Guru first came over here, what was his message?
BM: When he first arrived, his message was that he knew the truth and
that the truth was within each and every individual. He sometimes used
to talk about that truth, whether you called it God or something else,
as the perfect energy within each individual. He said that this was
something he could reveal to everyone. That, in fact, was his purpose.
He was called a perfect master because he had mastered something that
was perfect; presumably this perfect energy inside us which was
responsible for life.
In revealing that to other people, he was revealing the only thing which
could claim to be perfection, the primordial energy of the universe. He
would essentially ask people to come to him and ask for this knowledge,
which would be freely given. The only thing that was required was the
sincerity on the part of the individual asking. If you would ask
sincerely, not just because you wanted to do it out of curiosity, but
because you really wanted to know the truth about life, then he would
have this knowledge revealed to you. Actually, he never really did any
of the initiating himself; there was always one of his disciples to do
that. These disciples at that time were called Mahatmas. In the
beginning years, they were all Indians as well.
He built himself as a humble servant of God who was essentially in
charge with the responsibility of revealing this knowledge to people by
his father who was his guru. At the same time, although there were some
people who would say, well, he has to be a god himself in order to be
able to reveal God, he would always deny this. He would say : "I make
no claims of this sort at all. What I am revealing - it is not even as
if I am giving you something - is something that is there inside you.
It is there inside everyone. By recognising it, by having it revealed
to you and then by meditating on it, you can attain the peace that comes
through knowing the truth. Once you have found peace within yourself,
this is the way towards ultimate world peace".
DJ: How did he reveal this truth?
BM: Like I said, he never really actually revealed it to anybody.
DJ: How was the truth revealed?
BM: OK, it was revealed to people in what was known as a knowledge
session. This is an initiation that takes place with one of his
disciples who has been essentially sanctioned to perform this function.
Like I said, they had a special title. They were called Mahatmas.
Presently, they call them Initiators. That was really what their
function was; to initiate new people into this practice of knowledge.
This practice of knowledge turns out to be a whole lifestyle. At the
core of it, the primary thing that was taught to people in these
initiation sessions was a form of meditation that consisted of four
techniques of concentration. These four techniques of concentration
were supposed to reveal to you the inner light, or divine light, within
your own being, and also the divine harmony, or vibration, that was
going on inside you all the time. There was supposed to be a
divine nectar which was a source of internal sustenance and an elixir of
bliss of sorts. Of course, the main thing was the primordial vibration
itself; the holy name or the word as spoken of in the Bible.
DJ: What was the elixir?
BM: The elixir was supposed to be this divine nectar.
DJ: What was it?
BM: First of all, you've got to understand that we're talking about
techniques that are actual physical techniques that you practice. The
physical technique for the nectar was a yoga movement that is performed
by inverting your tongue back into your throat. Now some critics have
said that the only nectar that is experienced that way is the post-nasal
drip.
The belief is that the physical technique is just a means of attaining
some sort of transcendental awareness, so the nectar would be something
that you couldn't really describe. You would have to experience it, and
it would be the same for the divine light and for the celestial harmony
and the primordial vibration as well.
DJ: When people first came into the Divine Light Mission, was it
originally called the Divine Light Mission or did it have another name?
BM: It was called the Divine Light Mission in India. When Maharaji came
here, there was no organisation and in fact he asked me to found the
Divine Light Mission for him here in the United States, which I did in
September 1971.
DJ: Were the people who got involved with the Guru from all religious
backgrounds?
BM: That's correct.
DJ: How did you come to this?
BM: Well, my actual coming to Maharaji took place because of a former
student of mine. I had studied yoga in India in 1968, and when I came
back to the United States, I started teaching my friends to practice
yoga. It accelerated through my involvement with the Denver Free
University. During the course of teaching yoga through the Denver Free
University, I had a student named Bill Paterson. Bill had attended a
number of my yoga classes, and he decided that he wanted to go to India
to pursue his studies. We had talked about his trip before he went.
Anyway, to make a long story short, he told me that when he came back he
had joined a guru.
This was, I believe, in June 1971. He told me about this 13 year old
boy who was his guru. I thought it sounded very interesting. It
sounded as though the teachings that the guru was giving Bill were in
harmony with the Yogi tradition. He told me that his guru might in fact
come to the United States. I said that if he does, be sure and let me
know as I would like to meet him. I didn't expect that he would come so
soon, but actually he did.
He came in July. He came to Los Angeles first, and within a couple of
weeks he was in Boulder. When he came, of course Bill asked me to come.
As soon as I went there, Bill immediately showed me into the room and I
met Maharaji. I was impressed with him as he spoke with a great deal of
confidence and authority. For the most part, I felt that unlike a lot
of other Yogis who had come to the West and were essentially
commercialising the Yogi tradition in my opinion, he put no price tag on
the meditation. He used to say that you can't put a price on something
that's priceless.
He said that something that's this important for people to have, you
have to give to everyone freely, and the only requirement is that they
be sincere in wanting to know the truth and then it will be revealed to
them. I felt that he was somebody that was sincere, and when he said
that his mission was to spread this meditation as widely as possible, I
offered to help in any way that I could.
DJ: Would it be fair to say that you became a follower of his?
BM: Yes, it would be, because in fact he was the leader, and in order to
assist him in any way, you had to be a follower.
DJ: All right. Initially, people were coming to him to receive this
knowledge. I understood that they received it in a blinding flash of
light, that there were allegations to this effect.
BM: Well, like I said, you had these initiation sessions. First of
all, you had to be selected for them. In the beginning, you would
listen to Maharaji give satsangs primarily...
DJ: What?
BM: Excuse me - that's a group term within the Divine Light Mission.
It comes from the Hindi which roughly translated means 'company of
truth'. It's the name that's applied to the lectures that the guru would
give. In fact Satsang is something very important in the Divine Light
Mission practice of knowledge. Anyway, you would listen to him giving
his lectures - the satsangs - and you would also listen to some of his
devotees also giving these satsang lectures.
After you were convinced that it was something that you wanted to try,
and that you sincerely wanted to know, then you would make that known.
You would ask to receive knowledge and then you would be selected,
depending upon whether they thought you were ready or not, whoever they
were. They at that time were a Mahatma and one or two of the devotees
who were assisting him. As soon as you were selected, you would get to
sit in one of these initiation sessions, which sometimes lasted anywhere
from six to eight or ten hours.
DJ: OK, I have talked to people - as a matter of fact I met the Guru
Maharaji's mother and I believe that was in 1972 - and there was a
get-together that you had put together at Redrocks also. That was also
in 1972, I believe?
BM: Yes, that was in 1972.
DJ: I had the chance to be there and thought it was interesting, but
not any more interesting than anything else that I had heard. But it
was amazing to me to watch the young people who were involved, how
devoted they were and how this translated and somehow kept pace, always
within keeping of their formal religions. If they were Catholic, they
had a very Catholic view of the whole procedure. If you didn't accept
the Guru Maharaji when the light was offered to you, then you weren't
going to be saved, very much like some religions today. That whole
thing changed. How did it change?
BM: Well, I don't know whether that appeal changed really very much at
all. It's just that in the early days, Maharaji was very adamant about
how he had not come to start another religion. In fact, he felt that
what he was offering should not interfere with your present religious
beliefs at all. If anything, it should enhance them in that you would
suddenly, for the first time, really know what the Bible was talking
about because you would be experiencing it yourself.
The idea was that he was doing something that would unite all the
religions of the world. Therefore, people were encouraged to bring
their religious tradition into the Divine Light Mission. That's
probably what accounted for the thing that you were observing in the way
that people would interpret the Divine Light Mission practices in terms
of their own religious background. I think that, to a certain extent,
they would still probably tell that to people who were interested, or
trying to get interested, in the Divine Light Mission now.
In the meantime, it has become a religion in its own right. I don't
think that anybody could deny that. They have a whole body of dogma; a
complete lifestyle, a way of life which they call knowledge. It's not
simply a singular kind of experience that you translate into your
everyday life, as it was purported to be in the beginning, it's a whole
system of idol worship where you must accept the guru as God.
DJ: Today, what they are saying is that the Guru is the reincarnation of
God. He is God. He is not simply a messenger; he is, as the
Christians, or other religions would say, a Messiah. In the Christian
sense, he is like Jesus.
BM: I think that would be pretty much what they would say. He is an
embodiment of that power, and that power is God. That's what we have
come to know as God. In India, you have some people argue with you for
a long time saying, "no, no, no, he is greater than God". For us, that
loses value in that we tend to interpret the word God as being that
which is all-powerful. That's how they see him, as an embodiment of
that all-powerful force which created and sustains and enlightens all
being.
DJ: What happened as you saw these changes taking place in the Divine
Light Mission, and really the embodiment of what the Guru represented
changing? How did that affect you?
BM: Well, it was a little bit more complex for me in terms of the
changes I went through during that period myself. In general, it
affected me in that I felt that we had a responsibility to be what we
purported ourselves to be. To change it into something else was not
something that I agreed with. Ultimately, my disagreement with
Maharaji, particularly on this basis, led to my resignation.
During a large part of the period that I was involved, I essentially
went along the prevailing belief structure. Whether Guru Maharaji was
God or not really wasn't important. The important thing was that if you
were devoted to him, you followed him absolutely. Whatever he said,
even if it didn't make sense to you, you would find a way to make sense
of it. I used to do that myself as well. I certainly did that a great
deal for the devotees as well. I was one of the major spokespeople of
the movement.
DJ: The People's Temple hit the news a while back with a mass suicide,
among other things. Shortly after that information hit us through the
media, you made some statements regarding the Divine Light Mission and
some of the practices of it which you felt corresponded to the People's
Temple. Could you tell us about that?
BM: Yes. First of all, let me explain my reasoning there. When I left
the Divine Light Mission in 1977, I felt that I personally couldn't
agree with what the Guru was doing. I had come to that conclusion
probably a year and a half before that. I never really lived with the
Guru except that I travelled in the same circle as him. I never really
lived with him or became the kind of personal confidante that I was to
him until after he split with his family.
There was a period during 1974 when there was an outright war, really,
in the Divine Light Mission, between his mother and elder brother, whom
you met. Maharaji took control of the mission. During this time, he
began to rely on me very heavily, and then after that I lived with him.
In living with him, I began to see a lot of the excesses in the
devotion and practices that I felt were detrimental to the spiritual
development of the devotees.
I had attributed these to his mother and brother, and with them out of
the way, that didn't necessarily need to be the case any longer. This
was in my opinion, at least, as I had always found Maharaji to be very
sincere and reasonable. In fact, during that period, we did decide to
make some changes. At the beginning, well, around the end of 1975, we
started what I would call a major change of emphasis in the Divine Light
Mission.
This was something that Maharaji and I arrived at as being necessary not
only for the devotees but also for his own welfare as well. That was to
change this belief that he was God, by actually coming out and denying
it, and by taking some responsibility to de-programme our own membership
away from this belief. This was so that he wouldn't become the kind of
cult leader that in fact he has become today.
About half way through 1976, Maharaji got very insecure about what was
going to happen to him if we continued with this. He realised that he
was going to lose his automatic hold over the devotees that he had had
up until that point.
DJ: Was this a conscious thing on his part?
BM: Oh, yes. This was a very conscious thing. We discussed it, and we
outlined all the different perspectives that would be involved. At the
time, what I had planned for him and with him, and up to the middle of
1976 he was largely agreeing with, was to use a lot of the money that
had come to him in the form of gifts from his followers, to set up some
investments. This would enable him to become financially independent
from the continued support of the devotees.
He had grown accustomed to a very luxurious lifestyle. A lot of the
necessity of keeping the members believing that he was God was to ensure
that they would continue to support him in this lifestyle. If it meant
that he was going to have to make any sacrifices in this lifestyle (and
it had become apparent by the middle of 1976 that this was going to be
the case) then he didn't really want to have to do that.
That's where we came to a parting of the ways, so to speak. As a result
of that, I just left, because I recognised that I couldn't change him.
If he wanted to change on his own, then that was something I was very
willing to assist with. If he wasn't going to change, then I certainly
wasn't going to continue to stay while he turned what was originally a
mission to spread meditation to people freely into something that
solicited donations to do this type of work and had all of its funds
essentially going to support his luxurious lifestyle.
So I resigned from the Divine Light Mission in January 1977, but for the
last month or so of 1976 I really wasn't involved. It was understood
that I was resigning. I didn't say anything, because at the time, I
felt that a lot of the things that I knew really wouldn't be that well
received. I had been the head of the Mission, after all, during that
whole period, and people had all sorts of different conceptions about
me. Really, I didn't feel that it was of any interest to people other
than the present members, and most of them really didn't want to know
the kind of things that I knew.
After that incident in Guyana there were just so many striking
similarities between what had happened with the People's Temple group
and how it had changed over the years and the kind of psychological
deterioration that Reverend Jones had purportedly gone through. The
whole belief structure, this separate reality that they existed in...
DJ: His people...did they go through a suicide provision?
BM: No, I don't mean that there actually was a suicide pact or anything
like that. What I meant was that this kind of belief, absolute power
and control in one person, and belief that no matter what this person
says, it must be obeyed. That kind of power, the impact that power has,
even on the person who has it. The kind of corrupting influence that
kind of power over others has on an individual.
I'd see Maharaji go through a tremendous psychological deterioration
during the time that I lived with him. These things were, I felt, his
private affairs on one level; I also felt that the premis' beliefs were
their own private affairs on another level.
DJ: What is a premi?
BM: A premi is a name for a member of the Divine Light Mission. That
comes from the Hindi word prem which means love. Premi roughly is
someone who is a lover of God, Guru Maharaji, whatever you want to say.
A lover of truth. Anyway, I made this statement, and the reason I made
it was that I felt that there was a lot that needed to be pointed out.
These were things that were deliberately hidden from the members of the
members of the Divine Light Mission.
DJ: How did he take advantage of his position other than simply to
acquire some fairly worldly goods?
BM: Well, taking advantage is a matter of interpretation. I know that
any criticism you make of Guru Maharaji can be rationalised by his very
devoted followers, simply because they give all matter of licence to him
in that if he is God, well , he can do anything.
That means that, to my own way of thinking, it is very hypocritical to
teach one lifestyle as a means of fulfilment to people, as a spiritual
truth, and then live entirely opposite to that yourself. That becomes
even more hypocritical, when in fact you don't just do the opposite, but
you also make a great deal of effort and take a great deal of care in
making sure that nobody knows this either.
DJ: There were rumours, and I don't know whether these rumours were
based on any kind of fact or not, that he took advantage of several
young women who were members of the Divine Light Mission, because of his
position. To your knowledge, is any of that true?
BM: No, to my knowledge, that's not true. Although it was true that a
number of his Mahatmas did that, and we had a number of problems with
someof the Mahatmas on that level, I am not aware of Maharaji taking
advantage of women followers.
DJ: Is the Maharaji a rich man today?
BM: I don't know what his personal worth is, but you would have to say
that he is a rich man. That might sound a bit ambiguous, but his whole
financial condition is a bit ambiguous, because he has so much of his
wealth being provided for him by the Church.
He has a great deal of income that comes to him in the tax-free form of
gifts from his followers. How he uses that; well, when I was there, he
was spending it. It was just amazing how much money he could spend.
DJ: He has several sports cars, I understand, I mean people gave him
things.
BM: Yes, and he also had the Divine Light Mission buy him things.
Whenever he wanted something, it really didn't matter whether we had the
money for it or not. We were to get it, somehow or another.
DJ: I remember when he bought a Mercedes. There was a lot of flak about
that.
BM: Yes, well, by the time I left, he must have had at least three
Mercedes, a couple of Rolls Royces, and least three or four other
luxurious automobiles in the 30 or 40,000 dollar range. I mean, it
wasn't just a question of having one, he had a whole fleet.
DJ: How do the members of the Divine Light Mission see you today? Do
they see you as a Judas?
BM: Well, I suppose you would have to ask them. They have a special
name for someone like me which, I guess is a sort of a Judas. The call
it a Munmat. That is someone who has become anti-Guru. I think that
with the exception of a few, and it really is just a few, of the present
members who still believe in Guru Maharaji who have had the courage to
talk to me and still relate to me, most of them are really afraid to
talk to me. This is because I'm seen as someone who is completely in
their minds.
The mind is a very dangerous thing to a premi. That's symbolic of
everything that makes you doubt the truth which Guru Maharaji has
revealed to you. In fact, he has even commanded his following never to
allow any room for doubt in their minds. They are supposed to control
their minds through the practice of meditation. So, to talk to someone
like myself, who is completely in the mind, supposedly, would be a very
dangerous thing to do, because I could confuse them.
...End of part 1. A phone-in follows which contains a lot of waffle but
some entertaining stuff about how the guru's mother tried and failed to
get the eldest son crowned in Maharaji's place and how he ended up
prefering the bottle to meditation. I'll try and post the rest tomorrow
(if the curse of the guru doesn't get me first).
--
David
jim heller
David,
Thanks SO much for doing this. If you read Anon's latest ("Maharaji's
prem pal - anon") you'll see that Maharaji has apparently acknowledged
and dismissed those who discuss him on the net as lifeless. Well,
unless he converts his entire flock into luddites - kind of like the
Hare Krishnas (who aren't really but dress the part), some will read
this interview and benefit from Mishler's revived echo.
By the way, the remaining part of the interview, ESPECIALLY the story of
how-the-guru-got-his-spots, is, if I recall, as good as this first part.
Thanks again.
By the way, isn't Bon Govi something else? What's your opinion, am I
asking for too much to want MY little questions answered so I can then
lay a foundation to make My little point? He calls that egotistical and
childish. I call that direct dialogue. Am I missing something?
Your brother, upstage or down,
Jim
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
Nice try, David. I guess now whoever thinks Maharaji is a bad guy will continue
to do so, and whoever thinks he is a good guy will continue to do so, likewise.
It also tells me how much you like your colonial cousins.
Let me tell you something: the sun is shining, and you are standing in the
shadow and saying "there is no such thing as a sun!".
You are standing in the shadow of the sun.
- Mili (http://www.geocities.com/BourbonStreet/3013)
-------------------==== Posted via Deja News ====-----------------------
http://www.dejanews.com/ Search, Read, Post to Usenet
David Stirling
In article <32B886...@islandnet.com>, jim heller
<hel...@islandnet.com> writes
>
>By the way, isn't Bon Govi something else? What's your opinion, am I
>asking for too much to want MY little questions answered so I can then
>lay a foundation to make My little point? He calls that egotistical and
>childish. I call that direct dialogue. Am I missing something?
>
I really wouldn't even try to figure it out, Jim. He's into this Sai
Baba stuff in a big way and takes it extremeley seriously. Been there,
done that, eh?
Regarding the prem pal posts; Dark Danette's a completely lost cause but
I'm struggling to figure Anon. What do you know of Mr/Mrs/Ms Mystery? I
couldn't hep chuckling at the bound copies of our posts. Should we offer
to sign them?
Are there really 'LOADS AND LOADS of premies reading this stuff'? You'd
never know. I'd ask them all to join in but it would end up like that
Jehovas' Witness crap - all outraged protests... How dare you question
the Lord of the Universe. If he needs another Maserati, then he should
have one!
I can still remember when the British premies bought Maharaji a gleaming
Rolls Royce with 'GM1' plates. 'Do you really expect him to ride around
on an ass?' we exclained. 'Only the best is good enough for the physical
embodiment of God!'
Did you also note that Divine Times has just celebrated its 25th
anniversary? I used to work on the British version. It made me feel very
old! I'd love to see a recent copy.
--
David
jim heller
David Stirling wrote:
>
> I'm struggling to figure Anon. What do you know of Mr/Mrs/Ms Mystery? I
> couldn't hep chuckling at the bound copies of our posts. Should we offer
> to sign them?
David,
Forget my presumptuous concession on your behalf to Bon. You are OFTEN
quite funny and this above is rich.
Anon's never really struck me a blatant joker. Guess we'll have to wait
and see. You know, I have to admit that I never took his comment at
other than face value 'til you cast it in this light. Anon, please let
me know by e-mail -- (as is your want [hey, I'm starting to talk like
Bon!]) if you're serious about this.
>
> Are there really 'LOADS AND LOADS of premies reading this stuff'?
Right, good question. Anon, again, how do you know?
> I can still remember when the British premies bought Maharaji a gleaming
> Rolls Royce with 'GM1' plates. 'Do you really expect him to ride around
> on an ass?' we exclained. 'Only the best is good enough for the physical
> embodiment of God!'
Here's one. Remember how pissed off we were when Moon and Rajneesh
seemed to try to steal Maharaji's thunder what with the Rolls collection
and all? Moon always seemed like the Bizzaro comic version of Maharaji,
crass and fake. Now they blend nicely. Fact is I'd like to collect the
whole set. Hey there's a gift idea -- little porcelain cult leaders of
the '70's and on. Seriously, there's money there, don't you think?
>
> Did you also note that Divine Times has just celebrated its 25th
> anniversary? I used to work on the British version. It made me feel very
> old! I'd love to see a recent copy.
No reason why we can't get them is there. Come on Danette, turn us on.
Also, how 'bout some videos? I'd happily do a Beavis and Butthead thing
with them (David, do you know what I'm talking about? American t.v.)
gba...@adnc.com
See my comments about Mishler under "Dead man walking". Unfortunately, Bob is dead and can not comment back to the this news group. However, I do know people who knew him. These people told me that they did not like or trust him during his exec role at DLM or after he left DLM? I met him several times and I am suspect of anything he represented after he left DLM. With that said, I would suggest that reader be careful in developing any opinion about Maharaji based on mishler's comments. I am not saying that Mishler was lying since I don't really know, at least objectively know, I am saying that Mishler may have had a big ax to grind, figurately speaking.
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
In article <8510628...@dejanews.com>,
gba...@adnc.com wrote:
>
> See my comments about Mishler under "Dead man walking". Unfortunately, Bob
is dead and can not comment back to the this news group. However, I do know
people who knew him. These people told me that they did not like or trust him
during his exec role at DLM or after he left DLM? I met him several times and I
am suspect of anything he represented after he left DLM. With that said, I would
suggest that reader be careful in developing any opinion about Maharaji based on
mishler's comments. I am not saying that Mishler was lying since I don't really
know, at least objectively know, I am saying that Mishler may have had a big ax
to grind, figurately speaking.
>
Now, here is a sincere and realistic statement. Jim and David, just how are you
going to twist this around? - Mili
Peter H.M. Brooks
> mishler's comments. I am not saying that Mishler was lying since I don't really > know, at least objectively know, I am saying that Mishler may have had a big ax > to grind, figurately speaking.
> >
>
I would hope that you are not suggesting that he lied. Everything he said
in his interview fitted exactly with the picture my wife painted for
me of Mr Ji.
--
Peter H.M. Brooks
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
In article <T9O5mOAq...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote:
> Did you also note that Divine Times has just celebrated its 25th
> anniversary? I used to work on the British version. It made me feel very
> old! I'd love to see a recent copy.
Why?
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
Why do you think a guru must have a shaved head and live in a cave in the
Himalayas? Maharaji is a modern guru! He is married, has four children
and flies his own airplane around the world so that he can see his devotees!
- Mili
In article <851184...@psyche.demon.co.uk>,
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
In article <T9O5mOAq...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> Did you also note that Divine Times has just celebrated its 25th
> anniversary? I used to work on the British version. It made me feel very
> old! I'd love to see a recent copy.
> David
WHY?
- Mili
jim heller
> I would hope that you are not suggesting that he lied. Everything he said
> in his interview fitted exactly with the picture my wife painted for
> me of Mr Ji.
>
Yes, Peter, I agree. I was a premie, as you know, for years and Bob's
description perfectly fits with Maharaji as I grew to suspect he really
was. If that sounds alittle weak, or indirect, it is. I just didn't
know the guy personally. HOWEVER, Bob sure isn't the only one who's
described Maharaji's egotism and avoidance. Remember, I had a drink
once with the one brother who stayed with him, the other brother besides
Maharaji who married a gorgeous westerner and didn't want to follow
mum's command, and that guy, Raja Ji, told me Maharaji wouldn't even
talk straight with him about all this Lord shit. So, unless I'M a liar
too....
Jim Heller
G, I'm just reiterating myself but I think this point should be emphasized:
Mishler's egotism might just as easily support one's belief that he was
telling the truth. That is, he might have blown the whistle on Maharaji
just b/c he had an axe to grind. But let me ask you -- what does his story
sound like to YOU? Set aside your own dislike for his personality. Surely
you can do that, can't you? Or at least hold it in abeyance somewhat.
What about the actual CONTENT? Even Mili, a Maharaji supporter, finds his
tone apparently sincere, etc. That's my opinion as well. How 'bout yours?
Frankly, there's a whole lot in Mishler's stuff that has an absolute ring
of truth to it for me. Listening to the tapes themselves only confirms
this opinion. Honestly, do you think he's just making up this whole story
of what happened at Shri Hans funeral out of whole cloth? I don't.
Anyway, remember how when Mata Ji and Bal Bhagwan Ji split from Maharaji
they themselves SAID THE SAME THING! They claimed that it was all a
mistake and that Maharaji was never supposed to be the guru to begin with.
Hence their lawsuit. So where do you think that came from?
I don't know, it looks pretty clear to me when you put all that together
with the fact that Maharaji never deigned to rebut Mishler's accusation
that it was and is simply true. It might be hard for you to distance
yourself from your bad memory of the guy, but keep things in perspective.
This isn't a popularity contest, it's a search for truth.
gba...@adnc.com wrote in article <8510628...@dejanews.com>...
> See my comments about Mishler under "Dead man walking". Unfortunately,
Bob is dead and can not comment back to the this news group. However, I do
know people who knew him. These people told me that they did not like or
trust him during his exec role at DLM or after he left DLM? I met him
several times and I am suspect of anything he represented after he left
DLM. With that said, I would suggest that reader be careful in developing
any opinion about Maharaji based on mishler's comments. I am not saying
that Mishler was lying since I don't really know, at least objectively
know, I am saying that Mishler may have had a big ax to grind, figurately
speaking.
>
gba...@datatrack.net
In article <851184...@psyche.demon.co.uk>,
pe...@psyche.demon.co.uk ("Peter H.M. Brooks") wrote:
>
> In article <8511113...@dejanews.com> mkrk...@public.srce.hr writes:
>
> > >
> >
> in his interview fitted exactly with the picture my wife painted for
> me of Mr Ji.
yes, yes I was.I am suggesting that he may have lied! I believe that he
had motive - big time - to lie like a dog!( I know dogs don't lie, it
just sounds good to say
that).
Peter H.M., look, seriously speaking, I was around Bob a few times and he
was a real jerk. I am not taking sides on the higher level debate about
who is maharaji, I am just saying that I believe (my opinion) that Bob's
testimony was suspect. Maybe I am wrong but I don't trust anything that
came out of the mouth of Robert Mishler, thank god and the Mother Queen
(thats a bloody english saying) for freedom of
speech.
You must be from the British Isles, in my Country or community (Sunny
California), wives and particulary mine, speaks for herself. I am
confused, are you speaking on behalf of your wife.Is she incommunicado?
Is it that she doesn't have e-mail. I am not trying to be critical at
all. But frankly, I was amused by the second party report. Dude ( I know
that sounds like L.A or baywatch), get her to your computer and have her
type away. By the way, I really like that new title you gave maharaji,
Mr. Ji,. is that similar to the guy in the old TV show, Mr. T. Since my
first name is Gilbert, maybe I could get away with Mr. G., it sounds kind
of cool. On a serious note who is your wife and what was her relationship
with Messr. Ji? . And, who are you, a premie or former premie or a
husband on the periphery of a former premie or just the curious net
surfer who accidentally landed on the forum of the really weary and very
weak people of this planet (I guess that includes me,
too).
Lest we forget to keep a sense of humor or this forum will really become
a
drag.
Peter H.M.,by the way, that's pretty cool how you use two inititials
between your first and last name. that's an English practise, seems very
proper, right. I have some friends who use naming conventions like
William James(named after a saint at baptismal) Fullbright, IV.
Personally, I am thinking about starting a new trend (actually Madonna
beat me to it) and changing my entire name to Mr. G.
Yours truly, Mr. G (sounds like Ji.)
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
Sure Mishler was lying! Maharaji fired him for being a creep and doing
a bad job,and he was lying to get back at his boss. That's basically
why Jim is going at it, too.
C'mon all you anti-guruists, face it: you are being complete idiots. Everybody
is having fun and you are sitting in the front of the hall, wondering what's
there to be cheery about anyway? Ever watch the Muppet Show? You guys remind me
of the two old cranks up in the balcony who comment on everything, while
everybody else is having a ball!
- Mili
Peter H.M. Brooks
> California), wives and particulary mine, speaks for herself. I am
> confused, are you speaking on behalf of your wife.Is she incommunicado?
> Is it that she doesn't have e-mail. I am not trying to be critical at
>
She is not with me at present.
>
> of cool. On a serious note who is your wife and what was her relationship
> with Messr. Ji? . And, who are you, a premie or former premie or a
> husband on the periphery of a former premie or just the curious net
> surfer who accidentally landed on the forum of the really weary and very
> weak people of this planet (I guess that includes me,
> too).
>
My wife suffered from Mr G and was cured. I have never been involved with
the fellow - I can spot a fraud from quite a long way off.
>
> Peter H.M.,by the way, that's pretty cool how you use two inititials
> between your first and last name. that's an English practise, seems very
> proper, right. I have some friends who use naming conventions like
> William James(named after a saint at baptismal) Fullbright, IV.
> Personally, I am thinking about starting a new trend (actually Madonna
> beat me to it) and changing my entire name to Mr. G.
>
I am 'H.M.' simply because that is my name.
--
Peter H.M. Brooks
David Stirling
In article <8511935...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
writes
>Why do you think a guru must have a shaved head and live in a cave in the
>Himalayas? Maharaji is a modern guru! He is married, has four children
>and flies his own airplane around the world so that he can see his devotees!
>
Hey Mili, we don't give a toss that he's married with four kids, but
what's wrong with buying airline tickets like the rest of us? Or is he
above sitting next to the great unwashed human race? And just how many
Mercs, Rollers & Maseratis does one guru need?
Douche
David Stirling
In article <32BC40...@islandnet.com>, jim heller
<hel...@islandnet.com> writes
> I had a drink
>once with the one brother who stayed with him, the other brother besides
>Maharaji who married a gorgeous westerner and didn't want to follow
>mum's command, and that guy, Raja Ji, told me Maharaji wouldn't even
>talk straight with him about all this Lord shit. So, unless I'M a liar
>too....
Well, come on Jim, spill the beans! Last I heard of RajaJi, he was
building his own guru mafia; guns, goons, sharp suits, the lot. What did
he say? What's he up to now?
--
David
David Stirling
In article <8512462...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
writes
>Ever watch the Muppet Show? You guys remind me
>of the two old cranks up in the balcony who comment on everything, while
>everybody else is having a ball!
>
How about you Mili? Who do you identify with? Having seen your home
page and admired both your visage and favourite coloured rock, I see you
as the hairy one with the sharp teeth and seriously limited
intelligence!-)
--
Douche
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
See my comments about Mishler under "Dead man walking". Unfortunately, Bob
is dead and can not comment back to the this news group. However, I do know
people who knew him. These people told me that they did not like or trust him
during his exec role at DLM or after he left DLM? I met him several times and
I am suspect of anything he represented after he left DLM. With that said, I
would suggest that reader be careful in developing any opinion about Maharaji
based on Mishler's comments. I am not saying that Mishler was lying since I
don't really know, at least objectively know, I am saying that Mishler may have
had a big ax to grind, figurately speaking.
Now, here is a sincere and realistic statement.
Jim and David, just how are you going to twist this around?
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
In article <rYOnvKAs...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In article <8511935...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
> writes
>
> >Why do you think a guru must have a shaved head and live in a cave in the
> >Himalayas? Maharaji is a modern guru! He is married, has four children
> >and flies his own airplane around the world so that he can see his devotees!
> >
> Hey Mili, we don't give a toss that he's married with four kids, but
> what's wrong with buying airline tickets like the rest of us? Or is he
> above sitting next to the great unwashed human race?
Yeah. I knew you were unwashed. I could feel the stink through my computer
screen. I think it's your rotting heart.
David Stirling
In article <8513436...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
writes
>
>Yeah. I knew you were unwashed. I could feel the stink through my computer
>screen. I think it's your rotting heart.
>
>
lightening up for Christmas.
I don't know why I'm pointing this out to you, but did you know that the
Lord of the Universe seems to have applauded one of your posts? As far
as I can tell, it's the one and only post from M@elanvital ever to hit
the digital superhighway.
That's serious stuff, Mili. The living embodiment of God has chosen you
to speak for Him. Yes YOU. That's a co(s)mic honour on an awe-inspiring
scale.
I can see you now; up there on the right hand side of God, with your
wings, harp and gleaming halo. But don't forget the unwashed mortals
that helped you reach such dizzy heights. Put in a good word for us. I
really don't have the patience to go through another 64,000 lifetimes to
reach this point again!
Have a merry one.
Douche
dan...@ukans.edu
In article <C4YtHDA2...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
Look David, you're being foolish insulting Mili. How could
he have limited intelligence? He's an electrical
engineer with an excellend command of English which is
not even his first language!
Why not consider what Maharaji is saying and doing now?
That is what is dumb about all you guys trying to
criticize Maharaji. Why won't anyone ANSWER THAT QUESTION?
Jim is so caught up in getting his questions answered,
but no one will respond to the many suggestions that
you guys see for yourselves (not what some old premie
friend said) what Maharaji is saying now. Now that's
stupidity!
Merry merry ho ho ho
David Stirling
In article <8513613...@dejanews.com>, dan...@ukans.edu writes
>
>Look David, you're being foolish insulting Mili. How could
>he have limited intelligence? He's an electrical
>engineer.....
>
Hey Big Sis', I'm just sending Mili his ball back! Electrical engineers
can look after themselves.
>Why not consider what Maharaji is saying and doing now?
Well what is he saying that's any different to what he was saying 20
years ago? I lived and breathed it. I think I know what it's all about.
>That is what is dumb about all you guys trying to
>criticize Maharaji.
You really are big mother aren't you! Look, Maharaji seems to have
entered the conversation with his five word response. Let's see if he's
willing to continue the debate. Or perhaps he's happy to hide behind
your skirt. Time will tell.
David
dan...@ukans.edu
In article <LsLvyPA4...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
If that was Maharaji, did you get the point? Did you read what
Mili said? That it is the Knowledge which makes Maharaji
relevant in a person's life. Is it even possible for you
to understand that?
Jim Heller
>
> > I had a drink
> >once with the one brother who stayed with him, the other brother besides
> >Maharaji who married a gorgeous westerner and didn't want to follow
> >mum's command, and that guy, Raja Ji, told me Maharaji wouldn't even
> >talk straight with him about all this Lord shit. So, unless I'M a liar
> >too....
>
> Well, come on Jim, spill the beans! Last I heard of RajaJi, he was
> building his own guru mafia; guns, goons, sharp suits, the lot. What did
> he say? What's he up to now?
David,
I told this story already but I'm not sure where. But here it is.
In the late '80's, maybe 88, sometime around then, Maharaji had a program
in L.A. I think it was downtown. It was one of the first programs I
didn't got to even though I was around. What I did do, though, was go out
to another program his brother, Raja Ji, was holding in a hotel near the
airport a day or so later. The purpose of that program was to raise funds
for Maharaji's plane (I can't recall what he was flying then, but he needed
money for it). I sat at the back with a couple of premie friends. The
very back. Why'd I go? I hadn't seen Raja Ji in several years and thought
it'd be interesting to hear his current pitch. Also, I always liked seeing
whom I might run into from Canada as I'd earlier lived in several premie
communities during my eight year sojourn in the ashram.
Raja Ji came on, gave his inimitably low-key (indecipherable?) talk, really
about next to nothing, if I recall, until he got to the part about money.
Maharaji needed it and we should remember how much we needed to give
Maharaji what he needed. I listened and watched. Raja Ji took questions
and one of the first was from a very sincere, if troubled, guy in the
front. He said he was more than happy to help support Maharaji but he was
very confused. What in the world had happened to devotion? What he was
asking about was the then-current trend Maharaji was on to disengage the
premies from his feet, so to speak. He was sending everyone out on their
own now, they could think for themselves, do as they would with their time,
etc. etc. Now here was a guy saying "but what about my Guru Maharaj Ji?!"
He wanted devotion, he was used to devotion, but, at that time, devotion
was something of a dirty word in premiedom.
Raja Ji started to tell the guy that he had Knowledge, to just do it, enjoy
it, basically do his own thing, and that that was just how it all was. The
guy obviously wasn't satisfied and indeed looked really troubled and Raja
Ji, for his part, seemed only interested in getting on the next
(non?)question. I got really angry. The motherfucker, I thought. Here's
this guy left out to dry by his fucking Lord for God's sake and all Raja Ji
cares about is money. So I stood up:
"Hold on a sec," I shouted, barely able to contain myself "we were told you
guys were DIVINE!"
Everyone turned around to see who this 'bongo' was (In the premie world,
anyone who ever disrupted a program, asked one too many questions or
somehow didn't quite comply or fit in, was considered crazy. "Bongo" was
the term, and now I was wearing it!). I smiled and thought to myself
'okay, chill out, yes you're talking to the Lord's brother [my mind still
could bring shit like that up] but stay calm and talk to the guy'. So
that's what I did. Well, first I waited as he replied:
"Did you ever see the movie 'The Last Emperor'?" to which I said "Yes".
"Well that's how it was for us when we were growing up," he said. "We were
raised like little kings [notice how he didn't differentiate any of the
brothers?] and part of all that was to believe that we'd never have to work
a day in our lives."
Now this suprised me. What in the world was he talking about working for?
I brought the discussion back to the divinity thing but again he evaded the
question. Then I told him a bit about myself:
"Look, I gave about eight years of my life in your brother's ashram, just
like this other fellow here who's so concerned about all these changes, and
you don't seem to be addressing his question." I can't remember exaclt
what I said but it was along those lines. I remember the 'years in the
ashram' part because Raja Ji then countered by asking me:
"Well, were you happy during those years?", to which I deftly replied (yes,
I'm proud of this moment):
"Well that's a trick question isn't it? What can I compare that time with?
Sure, there was a lot of community, a lot of idealism, I even enjoyed the
meditation a lot at times. But there was also a lot of life held in
suspension based on your brother's promises and stuff he'd told us. The
question isn't whether or not I was happy. The question is 'what in the
world's going on here?"
We went back and forth. The whole crowds' heads turned back and forth like
deep carpet pile being rubbed one way then the next. This was great! I
lost my nervousness, felt really comfortable and honest and, for the first
time that I ever recalled, a 'bongo' premie was getting the best of a
member of the holy family! Eventually, we stopped our dialogue but not
before I'd invited Raja Ji over to my place to talk further and the whole
hall laughed with severl people shouting out that they'd like to come too.
After the 'show' I went up to the front and introduced myself further. I
mentioned that I was a lawyer and Raja Ji's tone shifted a bit. Why? Did
he sense the possibility of money, connections? Who knows? But suddenly
he grew more respectful. In fact we aranged to meet the next day. He had
to drive into Beverly Hills for a haircut and would stop by my office in
Westwood on the way back and we'd go downstairs for a drink.
The next day he did just that. I think I disappointed him a bit with my
suit that day. It wasn't one of my best and here he's showing up in one of
those very expensive Mercedes with his brand new Expensive haircut. We
weren't going to be doing any international business shit after all,
perhaps he thought. Oh well. Let's go downstairs.
So we went to the Red Robin. I ordered a scotch, he, to his eternal credit
I'm sure, ordered a Perrier. Then we talked. I told him all my doubts,
how it looked like Maharaji had just backed off everything he'd earlier
represented himself to be, you know. At first Raja Ji misunderstood me.
He thought that I was asking for help adjusting to this new reality and
suggested that maybe I consult with Diego or Alberto or one of the other
inner-circle mahatmas who was living in Malibu. He said they were really
good with working with premies who were confused about all these changes.
I got a little impatient. I told him I didn't need help, I needed answers.
Then I said that really I shouldn't be talking with him at all. It was
his brother (meaning Maharaji) I should talk to.
I remember his reaction perfectly. He paused, looked me in the eye and,
with apparent and candid resignation, said that it would be a waste of
time. See, even he had tried to get Maharaji to talk about just who he
was, or thought he was, and to no avail.
Frankly, I wasn't surprised. But that was about it. There was some other
small talk. Raja told me he was living in New York at the time and that he
was on some sort of initiator stipend from his brother. He actually
complained that he wasn't getting enough. He was split from Claudia then.
He seemed like an alright kind of guy, alittle stuck up, a little down.
Well, that was about it. I walked him out to his car and he went home to
Malibu.
Jim Heller
> Why not consider what Maharaji is saying and doing now?
Danette, friend, it's not everyone who promises to save the world and
claims to be God. Whatever he'll ever say from here on in, I wager, will
pale in comparison.
So, here's your answer: I don't give a shit what he has to say until he
deals with that stuff first. Got it? There's my answer.
Besides, I've invited you to put up his words and you decline. I guess,
I'm waffling. No, I don't really care what he says now but yes, I'll check
it out if possible.
By the way, what did you think of Mishler's story? Did you read it?
> That is what is dumb about all you guys trying to
> criticize Maharaji. Why won't anyone ANSWER THAT QUESTION?
> Jim is so caught up in getting his questions answered,
> but no one will respond to the many suggestions that
> you guys see for yourselves (not what some old premie
> friend said) what Maharaji is saying now. Now that's
> stupidity!
>
> Merry merry ho ho ho
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
Jim you are twisting things around your way again. Maharaji's exact words were
"I will establish Peace on Earth." And he did. Everybody knows that there is
something like Knowledge or God-Self-Realisation by now.
And he NEVER said "I am God". Actually, he said "I am NOT God.
God is within you - it is the energy behind your breath. Realize it."
How come you can't understand something as simple as that? We are ALL God.
- Mili
In article <01bbf14b$2795f1c0$a1ac...@nada.islandnet.com>,
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
Look Jim, I've had enough of your insulting our Master. You are putting words
into his mouth that he never said. That's called LYING. He never said "I am
God". He said that God was the energy within you that is keeping you and him
alive. And if you want to save that part of the world that pertains to you -
you've got to do it yourself, even if you have the Knowledge. Now, if the
supposedly eight years you put into it couldn't produce a result, then I would
safely guess that you won't make it as a premie. So get the fuck out - and leave
us alone. Turn around and don't look back.
I sort of pity you, so I probably won't break your face open when or if I ever
see you, but if you try to do your little number in front of a festival hall
somewhere, you are really asking for it. That's just a little friendly advice.
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
David, unlike Jim whom I pity, in your case it will be my pleasure to break your
face open. I guess I'll have to stand in line to do it, though. Could we arrange
a meeting somewhere, this summer perhaps?
- Mili
In article <LsLvyPA4...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In article <8513613...@dejanews.com>, dan...@ukans.edu writes
>
> >
> >Look David, you're being foolish insulting Mili. How could
> >he have limited intelligence? He's an electrical
> >engineer.....
> >
> Hey Big Sis', I'm just sending Mili his ball back! Electrical engineers
> can look after themselves.
>
> >Why not consider what Maharaji is saying and doing now?
>
> Well what is he saying that's any different to what he was saying 20
> years ago? I lived and breathed it. I think I know what it's all about.
>
> >That is what is dumb about all you guys trying to
> >criticize Maharaji.
>
> You really are big mother aren't you! Look, Maharaji seems to have
> entered the conversation with his five word response. Let's see if he's
> willing to continue the debate. Or perhaps he's happy to hide behind
> your skirt. Time will tell.
> David
Jim Heller
Mili,
It's time you said goodbye. I've reported your last post to your server.
mkrk...@public.srce.hr
In article <rYOnvKAs...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>,
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote:
>
> In article <8511935...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
> writes
>
> >Why do you think a guru must have a shaved head and live in a cave in the
> >Himalayas? Maharaji is a modern guru! He is married, has four children
> >and flies his own airplane around the world so that he can see his devotees!
> >
> Hey Mili, we don't give a toss that he's married with four kids, but
> what's wrong with buying airline tickets like the rest of us? Or is he
> Mercs, Rollers & Maseratis does one guru need?
> Douche
What's it to you, anyway? People love him and they give him things. It's none of
your business. You are most DISWELCOME in this "cult" and your comments are also
unasked for. No one asked you for your opinion here. So, shove off!
- Mili
Peter H.M. Brooks
>
> I sort of pity you, so I probably won't break your face open when or if I ever
> see you, but if you try to do your little number in front of a festival hall
> somewhere, you are really asking for it. That's just a little friendly advice.
>
Interesting this implicit threat of violence from somebody who claims to
be learning from a 'perfect masturbator' who is bringing peace to the
world. I think that it is most instructive - probably all you need to
know about the cult. After all as another 'perfect masturbator' put it,
by their fuits, you shall know them.
--
Peter H.M. Brooks
David Stirling
In article <8514559...@dejanews.com>, mkrk...@public.srce.hr
writes
>David, unlike Jim whom I pity, in your case it will be my pleasure to break your
>face open. I guess I'll have to stand in line to do it, though. Could we arrange
>a meeting somewhere, this summer perhaps?
>
>- Mili
I think we've reached the end of the road, Mili. At one time, I could
put up with the sounds of you disappearing up Maharaji's arse, purely
for the comic relief it gave the rest of us. But all this face-breaking
crap has shown you for what you are, and it's not a pretty sight.
Douche
Jim Heller
Mili, This is an example of a lot of things, including why you're going to
be hearing from your server soon.
David Stirling <da...@cpsds.demon.co.uk> wrote in article
<RLsZLCAa...@cpsds.demon.co.uk>...
jim heller
CD wrote:
>
> Jim,
>
> So you are a censorship kind of guy?
What are you talking about now?