Landmark Education
Grey & Rose Leggett
A few people whom I trust completely have been urging me to enrol in a
Landmark Education Forum. What they have been able to convey to me
about this process is intriguing, however I've read some material from
the net which is very critical. Has anyone an opinion she would like
to share?
Ingemar Hulthage
In article <5307rm$977$1...@otis.netspace.net.au> leg...@netspace.net.au (Grey & Rose Leggett) writes:
I enrolled in the Forum because my wife insisted on doing so and I
went along to do what I could to protect her from being caught up in
what I suspected to be a cult.
http://tufvan.hv.se/~pwidt95/jv/jv.html
http://www.nano.no/~telemark/dns.shtml
http://home.sol.no/jansh/wteng/jwindex.html
Watchtower/JW FAQ
-- http://home.sol.no/jansh/wteng/jwfaq7.htm
CKI-Forlaget
Box 208
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Tel: +45 31 40 84 93
[Books that have particular recommendations from list-members have been marked
so
(++); conversely, those with negative responses are marked (--)]
WatchTower specific
An Accidental Autobiography, Barbara Grizutti Harrison,
Boston 1996,
ISBN 039578004 TC (+)
The Adventist and JWs Branch of Protestantism, ed Miller,
Timothy,
America's Alternative Religions, State University of NY,
1995.
Angels and Women; Mrs J G Smith; A. B. ABAC Company, 1924
Answering JWs Subject by Subject, D Reed, $10, ISBN
0-8020-5317-X
A History of JWs from A Black American Perspective; Firpo
Carr
A People For His Name, Timothy White, 1967
Apocalypse Delayed: The Story of Jehovah's Witnesses, Prof
M J
Penton (+++)
Apostles Of Denial; Edmond Gruss
Approaching JWs in Love, Wilbur Lingle, $9
Awake to the Watchtower; Doug Harris, Reachout Trust
Beyond the Watchtower, Joseph Malik
Blood, Medicine, and the Jehovah's Witnessses: The Hidden
History of
the Watchtower's prohibition on the Blood issue. Lagoon &
Devore,
Witness Inc
Branch Office Procedure, Watchtower Society
Blood on the Altar, David Reed, ISBN 1-57392-059-2
Christian Deviations; Horton Davies, Philosophical Library,
NY 1954
The Confusion of Tongues, Charles Braden
Crisis of Allegiance, James A Beverley, Welsh Publishing,
Burlington
Canada 1986
Crisis of Conscience, Raymond Franz, Commentary Press
($11+$1.50
p&p) ISBN# 0-914675-01-X (+++)
Danger Ar Your Door, D Magnani, $13
Dialogue with JWs, D Magnani, 2 Vols, $23
Dwelling Together in Unity, Watchtower Society
Evangelizing JWs, D Weeks, $8
The Evocative Religion of Jehovah's Witnesses: An Analysis
of a Present
Day Phenomenon, Matthew Alfs, Old Theology Book House,
Minneapolis 1991
Exposing "Should You Believe In The Trinity", Angel
Arellano
Examining the Watchtower Society - Is it God's
Organization, Jan
Groenveld
Extraordinary Groups: An Examination of Unconventional
Life-Styles;
Kephart, William M. & Zellner, William W., St Martin's
Press, NY (N.B.
only the 1994 edition covers JWs)
The Facts On Jehovah's Witnesses [Answers To The 20 Most
Frequently Asked Questions About The Watchtower Society],
John
Ankeberg & John Weldon
The Four Major Cults, Prof Antony Hoekema, The Paternoster
Press
1963
The Gentile Times Reconsidered, Carl Olof Jonsson (++)
Glossary of American Hacker Theocratese, Lynn Newton,
Friends-Net
How To Answer A Jehovah's Witness, Robert A. Morey
How To Answer Jehovah's Witnesses, Herbert Kern
Index of WatchTower Errors, David Reed, Baker Books
In Search of Christian Freedom, Raymond Franz, Commentary
Press,
$13, ISBN# 0-914675-16-8 (+++)
Insight on the Scriptures, WatchTower, NY 1992
The International Bible Students; M S Czatt, Mennonite
Press 1933
Jehovah Of The Watchtower, Walter Martin & Norman Klann
(---)
Jehovah's Witnesses; Marley Cole, Vantage Press, NY 1955
Jehovah's Witnesses, Royston Pike, Philosophical Library,
NY 1954
The Jehovah's Witnesses; H H Stroup, Columbia Univ Press,
NY 1945
Jehovah's Witnesses Answered Verse By Verse, D Reed
(English,
French, Spanish & Portugese)
Jehovah's Witnesses in the Divine Purpose, WatchTower, NY
1959
Jehovah's Witnesses and the Hour of Darkness, Derek
Barefoot
Jehovah's Witnesses and Kindred Groups; Dr Jerry Bergman,
1984
JWs Literature: A Critical Guide to WT Publications, D
Reed, $10
Jehovah's Witnesses & Mental Illness, Dr Jerry Bergman,
Costa Mesa
1983
The JWs New Testament, R Countess, $9
JWs - Proclaimers of God's Kingdom, Watchtower NY, 1993
Jehovah's Witnesses, A Study of Symbolic and Structural
Elements in the
Development and Institutionalization of a Sectariam
Movement, JF
Zygmunt, PhD dissertation, University of Chicago, 1967
Jehovah's Witnesses on Trial: The Testimony of the Early
Church Fathers;
Bob Finnerty,Phillipsburg PA, 1993,P&R Publishing
JWs - Victims of Deception, Ralph Miller, $8
Letters to the Editor, BK I 1983-1989; Randall Watters,
Free Minds Inc
Millions Now Living Will Never Die, Rogerson (++)
Modern Premilleniarism & the Christian Hope; Abingdon
Press, NY
1920
New Light Index, Supplement to Index of WT Errors; David
Reed
The Orwellian World of Jehovah's Witnesses, Botting (++)
Pay Attention to Yourselves and to All the Flock,
Watchtower Society,
Confidential Manual for Elders
The Pessimistic Sect's Influence on the Mental Health of
It's Members:
The Case of Jehovah's Witnesses, Social Compass 24, no 1
(1977)
Pilgrimage Through The Watch Tower, kevin Quick, Baker House
Books
'Publish' or Perish: Negro Jehovah's Witness Adaptation to
the Ghetto.
Cooper, Lee R. Religious Movements in Contemporary America,
eds.
Zaretsky and Leone. Princeton University Press, 1974.
Questions For Jehovah's Witnesses "Who love the Truth",
Bill Cetnar
Reasoning from the Scriptures with JWs, R Rhodes, Harvest
House
Reasoning with JWs, K Quick, $5
Refutation of "Preparing for Child Custody Cases", D
Magnani, $12.50
Refuting Jehovah's Witnesses; Randall Watters
Released from the WatchTower; V Tomsett, Lakeland Press
1971
The Power And The Glory - The Symbolic Vision and Social
Political
Dynamic of Jehovah's Witnesses; Heather Botting, Ottawa
1984 ISBN
0-3151-24768
The Report; TWMC, Brandon, Florida
The Sign of the Last Days: When?, C O Jonsson and Wolfgang
Herbst.
The Theology of the JWs; George McKinney; Zondervan,
Michigan
1962
These Also Believe, C S Braden, New York, McMillan 1950
They Have Found A Faith; Marcus Bach, Bob Merrils Co, NY
1946
The Trumpet of Prophecy: A Sociological Study of JWs
Beckford,
James A. Oxford, Basil Blackwell 1975, ISBN 0-631-16310-7
Beckford, James A. New York, John Wiley 1975 (+++)
Thus Saith The Governing Body of JWs; Randall Watters (also
in
Spanish)
Thirty Years A Watchtower Slave; William Schnell
Understanding Mind Control Among JWs; Randall Watters
Understanding Watchtower Phobias, Randall Waters
Visions of Glory, Barbara Grizzuti Harrison (+++)
Year of Doom, 1975, W C Stevenson, Hutchinson & Co, 1967
(+)
The Watchtower Files: Dialogue With A Jehovah's Witness,
Duane
Magnani
The Watchtower and The Masons, Fritz Springmeier(-)
What You Need To Know About Jehovah's Witnesses, Lorri
MacGregor
Why I Left Jehovah's Witnesses; T Dencher, Oliphants 1966
The Witnesses Of Jehovah; Leonard & Marjorie Chretien,
Harvest
House Publishers, 1988 ISBN 0-89081-587-9
Worse Than Waco: JWs Hide a Tragedy, D Reed, $8
I think it is fair to say that the Landmark Education and the Forum is
a cult. It has several of the key characteristics of a cult: central
control of administration and beliefs, heavy emphasize on
proselytizing and far reaching claims of providing a framework for
understanding everything and solving all problems. The Forum sessions
are also marathon events putting participants under intense
psycological preassure. However, there is one typical cult
charateristic that I was pleased to se that the Forum doesn't appear
to have. The Forum doesn't encourage people to cut their ties to
non-members. On the contrary the Forum encourages their members to
find ways to make up and go along with people that they have conflicts
with. You are of course supposed to win these people over to the
Forum, but joining the Forum isn't made a condition for a continued
reltaionship. I don't know how to fault the Forum teachings on
anything specific, except that it, of course, doesn't answer all
questions or solve all problems. The reason why it's difficult to
fault the Forum on their teachings is that one of their basic ideas is
that nothing that we experience means anything. From a philosphical
point of view it's true that nothing is absolute and therefore I can't
fault the Forum on this point. As far as I understand they use this
idea to induce a sense of liberation in people that are troubled by
one thing or another, because "it doesn't mean anyting".
It was a bit of a struggle to get rid of the Landmark people after we
had taken the Forum course. My wife went on to take a couple of more
courses, but didn't get caught up in their activities. I would
discourage anyone from taking the Forum course, but I must admit that
it wasn't a total loss and I don't think the Forum is one of the most
dangerous cults.
Ingemar
Paul Horne
The Forum is absolutely fantastic. I've done a lot of the work,
including Advanced Training, but I found that the higher "up" in the
organization you go the more you'll find the self-help addicts who prove
to be more dysfunctional than anyone. It's not the work that's corrupt,
but it's the way humans are when they find something great and can't get
enough of it. Of course I'm generalizing, but I consider myself pretty
objective and regardless of what you think about "the work" or Landmark
or Erhart (he was a freak!), the 3 days and an evening you'll spend in
the Forum will definitely give you access to seeing your life in a new
way, and this almost ALWAYS turns into major transformations in people's
lives. I don't know anyone who's had a bad experience with the Forum,
but I know a few who've had problems with Landmark or the Advanced
Courses.
Hope that helps--feel free to email me if you have questions.
Paul (ho...@earthlink.net)
Stuart Resnick
Paul Horne wrote:
>
> [snip] ... regardless of what you think about "the work" or Landmark
> or Erhart (he was a freak!), the 3 days and an evening you'll spend in
> the Forum will definitely give you access to seeing your life in a new
> way, and this almost ALWAYS turns into major transformations in people's
> lives. I don't know anyone who's had a bad experience with the Forum,
> but I know a few who've had problems with Landmark or the Advanced
> Courses.
>
organization, people who are dissatisfied tend to leave without saying
much, while those who got what they wanted stay & speak up. This can
lead to the illusion that people are "almost always" satisfied even when
a majority may not be. Obviously, the less open to criticism an
organization is (i.e., the more people fear being mocked for expressing
opposing views) the stronger this effect is.
Stuart
sres...@slip.net
Pamela Fitzpatrick
amen.
Michael S Newell
Grey & Rose Leggett wrote:
>
> A few people whom I trust completely have been urging me to enrol in a
> Landmark Education Forum. What they have been able to convey to me
> about this process is intriguing, however I've read some material from
> the net which is very critical. Has anyone an opinion she would like
> to share?
The Forum is undoubtedly powerful work. If you go, you will come
out of it with a different outlook, if not a "paradigm shift." I do not
doubt that the people who volunteer and the staff who work there are
excited sincere, and willing to make a contribution to your life.
I just doubt, after having taken the entire "Cirriculum for
Living," how responsibly the work is carried out. It's powerful stuff,
carried out by well-meaning volunteers and a thin staff. I know that I,
and a few of my good friends from my first Forum (I repeated), are much
more responsibly served by some supportive therapy, than we were by
Landmark.
Stuart hits it right on the head, too. The dissastified just kinda
slink out the back. Of course, that's only after many months of phone
calls to see if you want to take another course.....
Ned G. Hanover
Paul Horne wrote:
>
> The Forum is absolutely fantastic. I've done a lot of the work,
> including Advanced Training, but I found that the higher "up" in the
> organization you go the more you'll find the self-help addicts who prove
> to be more dysfunctional than anyone. It's not the work that's corrupt,
> but it's the way humans are when they find something great and can't get
> enough of it. Of course I'm generalizing, but I consider myself pretty
> or Erhart (he was a freak!), the 3 days and an evening you'll spend in
> the Forum will definitely give you access to seeing your life in a new
> way, and this almost ALWAYS turns into major transformations in people's
> lives. I don't know anyone who's had a bad experience with the Forum,
> but I know a few who've had problems with Landmark or the Advanced
> Courses.
>
Paul -
I'm someone who had an awful experience with the Forum. I took the Forum
in January 1993 and had disastrous results. Before the Forum I was
functioning normally, but afterwards I became severely depressed within
two weeks, and remained so during a four-week psychiatric hospitalization
five months later. Following that I hospitalization I attempted suicide
due to the depths of my depression, and was rehospitalized for another
four weeks. I was unproductive in work for five months (unable to
concentrate), and out of work on disability for six months. I
subsequently lost my job.
Fortunately for me, I have a very dedicated psychotherapist who pulled me
out of my depression and helped me piece my life back together.
Psychiatric medications were also a life saver.
The cost during 1993 to my health insurance was approximately $88,000!
This included intensive psychotherapy, hospitalization for eight weeks,
family therapy, and medication.
In sum, the Forum was a disaster for my mental health and for my
finances. I have absolutely *nothing* positive to say about the
experience.
Michael S Newell
Ned,
My experience was similar to yours. Severe depression and a suicide
attempt. I think that the Forum, being the emotionally stirring event
that it is, really just brought out the depression I'd been dealing with
for years. I don't blame Landmark for causing that.
However, I do have some problems with Landmark:
1) Landmark KNOWS the kind of emotional turmoil that their work can
cause. They even say that, "the Forum is for people who are
well." and they say that if you are in therapy, you need your
therapist's permission.
2) They KNOW how attractive their work can sound to someone who is
clinically depressed, but unwilling to seek therapy. I had thought
it was normal, healthy even to cry all the time. I did not know that
there was any other way to be. I suppose I knew I was not happy, but
I did not want to know I was sick. Denial ain't just a river in
Egypt. Somebody tells me about this 'self-help' event, The Forum, and I
really had hope that it would "be a clearing to unleash my
unimaginable future."
3) Landmark KNOWS that they are ill-equipped to handle or screen the
people who shouldn't be taking the Forum. A phone bank of
untrained volunteers for their enrollment team, and questionaire are
not enough to evaluate anyone's mental state. I don't care how
active their listening is.
4) They KNOW the results can be dire.
5) They do it anyway.
As I said before, the work IS powerful. Landmark is just irresponsible
to the point of criminal negligence. I believe in the good intentions
of many of the individuals who volunteer and staff at Landmark. But the
road to Hell is paved....
-Mike.
Ingemar Hulthage
(My first attempt to make this post got scrambled, I apologize and try again.)
leg...@netspace.net.au (Grey & Rose Leggett) wrote:
A few people whom I trust completely have been urging me to enrol in a
Landmark Education Forum. What they have been able to convey to me
about this process is intriguing, however I've read some material from
the net which is very critical. Has anyone an opinion she would like
to share?
I enrolled in the Forum in the fall of 1993, because my wife insisted
on doing so and I went along to do what I could to protect her from
being caught up in what I suspected to be a cult.
I think it is fair to say that the Landmark Education and the Forum is
a cult. It has several of the key characteristics of a cult: central
control of administration and beliefs, heavy emphasize on
proselytizing and far reaching claims of providing a framework for
understanding everything and solving all problems. The Forum sessions
are also marathon events putting participants under intense
psychological preassure.
However, there is one typical cult characteristic that I was pleased to
se that the Forum doesn't appear to have. The Forum doesn't encourage
people to cut their ties to non-members. On the contrary the Forum
encourages their members to find ways to make up and go along with
people that they have conflicts with. You are of course supposed to
win these people over to the Forum, but joining the Forum isn't made a
condition for a continued relationship.
It's difficult to fault the Forum on their teachings, because one of
their basic ideas is that nothing that we experience means anything.
From a philosophical point of view it's true that nothing is absolute.
As far as I understand they use this idea to induce a sense of
liberation in people that are troubled by one thing or another,
because "it doesn't mean anything".
Ned G. Hanover
I agree completely with what you have to say. I took the Forum in
January 1993 and felt the tremendous pressure to take additional courses.
It is definitely a cult. As I said in an earlier posting, I become
severely depressed and attempted suicide as a result of taking the Forum.
Landmark Education has a very powerful tool in their hands, and they are
risking people's lives when they subject participants to the Forum. If
only the participants knew what they were in for when they enrolled.
Let's get the word out to people to stay away from this program and
others like it. I know Landmark Education is not the only one.
Ned Hanover