specific brainwashing examples at SYDA
PattyV1953
>2. Lack of adequet protein. A vegetarian diet lacking in adequet protein
>content is an essential ingredient. It reduces the brain's production of
>neurotransmitters, and its ability to handle stress. The result is a
>more suggestible human.
>
Although I am not a rabid vegetarian, I have to take issue with this position.
My source is John McDougall, M.D., author of "The McD... Plan," "The McD...
Program - 12 Days to Dynamic Health," and "The McD... Program for Maximum
Weight Loss." In his "Plan" and "Program" books, in particular, Dr. McD gives
a scholarly analysis of the falacy of this need for "protein," levels of which
in the traditional American diet (lots of animal products and fat) stress the
liver and kidneys. One of the most cogent points he makes is that breast milk
is only 8% protein and is perfectly adequate nutrition for human beings in the
fastest period of growth experienced during one's lifetime.
Dr. McD goes on to detail the percentages of protein occurring in many plant
foods, most of which exceed 8% by plenty. He researched his conclusions
thoroughly, noting that, historically, the human race had relied on a
plant-based diet for millenia, before food preservation and distribution
techniques made animal foods more readily available, and that there are notable
examples of accomplished athletes among the ranks of vegetarians, including
Olympian Carl Lewis. Dr. McD also tested his theories clinically by applying
them in his medical practice. He noted that Hawaii-residing Phillipinos who
had no family history of heart disease, obesity, arthritis, hypertension,
diabetes, and other diet-related ailments developed them quite readily on the
American diet while their parents, who stuck to their traditional plant-based
diet lived to ripe old ages in relatively healthy bodies.
McDougall has since applied his theories in a medical program in California,
and receives testimonials from all over the country regarding the therapeutic
and health benefits of his vegan diet (no animal products, and no fat except
that which occurs naturally in plant foods).
I lent my copy of his "Program" book, so I don't have page cites or exact
statistics, but his stuff convinces me!
Pat
Andy Comanda
>For those of you who may be wondering "is SYDA a mind control cult", and
>feeling that perhaps it falls into some gray area, here is a quick list,
>not comprehensive, of intentional, pre-planned brainwashing techniques
>at SYDA...
I haven't had much time lately to read and post but I try to catch up on
reading when I can. Paco, you're OK dude. Welcome to the newsgroup. You
are a great addition.
Andy
Arjun...@my-dejanews.com
6p2f4t$nip$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,
pac...@my-dejanews.com wrote:
> -hello-
>
> For those of you who may be wondering "is SYDA a mind control cult", and
> feeling that perhaps it falls into some gray area, here is a quick list,
> not comprehensive, of intentional, pre-planned brainwashing techniques
>
> 2. Lack of adequet protein. A vegetarian diet lacking in adequet protein
> content is an essential ingredient. It reduces the brain's production of
> neurotransmitters, and its ability to handle stress. The result is a
> more suggestible human.
Paco methinks the above is pushing it a bit
much. Are you refering to the specific diet
at the ashram or is that just a general
statement.
A vegetarian diet usually has adequate
protein and I believe the one at the ashram
did.. The recommended amount of protein
is (was) much higher in the US than in
other countries.
I would think that sweets, soda coffee, tea,
candy, and more sweets contribute to erratic
behavior and mental imbalance.
Respectfully,
A.U.
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Hrdtired
characteristics of SYDA. Yes, NONE of this is necessary to practice yoga, or to
know God or the Cosmic Consciousness or whatever.
There are those, mind you, who would say that all the contradictions in SY, the
abuse, etc. are there to "break down your ego." These things surely do break a
person down, but if there is a loving God, why would He/She/It want to break us
down, story of Isaac notwithstanding?
Again, great post, thank you.
-- The Tired Heart
JyotiK2052
Thanks for your rebuttal of the assertion made in paco's posts regarding
vegetarianism being protein deficient. I was going to let that slide until the
4th installment, when I will answer the entire post. However, just want to
take this opportunity to tell you that I concur completely.
I have many more research articles regarding same, if any are needed. Only in
very rare instances does the human actually need animal protein.
I have been a vegetarian for many years and have not suffered for it. Just the
opposite. However, the last time I was at the ashram, (which admittedly was
around 1990..) the *portions* of the vegetarian food had become significantly
smaller.
Respectfully - Jyoti
PattyV1953
and that is to take a B-12 supplement if you eat no meat for *extended* periods
-- like several years.
Pat
Violet1884
>opposite.
^^^^^^^
Me to, Jyoti. Been vegetarian for over 20 years and doing just fine. However
I get Paco's overall gist and I think there is something to it. SY does
practice mind control for sure.
(By the way, what are you talking about the "4th post"? I thought it was Agni
who was doing a series of posts, not Paco?)
Violet
JyotiK2052
I just read my post about vegetarianism and realized that I mixed up Paco and
Agni...to both of you, I apologize!
Respectfully - Jyoti
Soloflyr11
great post.
gotta say... re the vegetarian issue... i agree that a vegetarian diet that
*is* lacking in protein *is* unhealthy and could increase one susceptibility to
brainwashing... whereas a vegetarian diet *not* lacking in adequate protein
would not be an ingredient in brainwashing. whether sy's fare was lacking in
protein i don't know. sometimes i felt that way.
i've been pretty much a vegetarian for about 30 years and my constitution is
rather strong. so the doctors tell me :) i get adequate protein. love soy :)
actually, how much is adequate protein is really an unanswered question in my
book. i guess i just try and follow my instinct...
anyway, not sure what you meant re the veg issue... but i thought it was a
great post.
welcome :)
soloji
Shawdan
(Hrdtired) writes:
>There are those, mind you, who would say that all the contradictions in SY,
>the
>abuse, etc. are there to "break down your ego." These things surely do break
>a
>person down, but if there is a loving God, why would He/She/It want to break
>us
>down, story of Isaac notwithstanding?
This is the deal breaker. There are so many people who have been blatantly
shit on by GM, who continue to use the above reasoning to make themselves wrong
and the guru right.
In describing the phenomenon of why children abused by their parents
nevertheless cling to those parents and protect them, the psychoanalyst
Fairbairn once said "It is better to be a sinner in a world ruled by God than
to live in a world ruled by the Devil".
Endlessly making myself wrong, a sinner, and GM right, was the prescribed way
to stay blind to the fact that the guru I chose to be my spiritual master was a
fraud and a con artist.
When I was first proposed to GM as the person to be the head of Programming, I
was told that she said, "Yes, we need a con artist for the job, he'd be good
for that."
It was always GM is joking, GM is using paradox to make a deep spiritual point,
GM really means the opposite of what she's saying and it takes deep viveka and
viragya to have right understanding, blah blah fucking blah.
But I discovered that she should be taken at (surgically altered) face value.
She's a guru who needs a con artist to be in charge of her programming
department. No mind bending interpretation necessary. It's that simple.
The implications are obvious. She's a con artist, and I failed at that seva
because I'm not a con artist.
Getting rid of what I never had. GM tried to stick so many ugly ugly labels on
me, I guess because she's too terrified to look at her own shadow.
Groups that have to hide their shadows in the closet, and gurus that can't look
at their own shadows, need con artists to run their programming departments.
I'm proud to have failed to fit the description.
***************
Sha...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw)
http://members.aol.com/shawdan/page1.htm
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have few virtues." --
Abraham Lincoln
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." -- Abraham Lincoln
Shawdan
viole...@aol.com (Violet1884) writes:
>Been vegetarian for over 20 years and doing just fine. However
>I get Paco's overall gist and I think there is something to it. SY does
>practice mind control for sure.
I was on staff in SY for 12 years. The diet wasn't adequate. Many staff
members (not I) were out blowing their pay on beer, tuna sandwiches and Kentucy
Fried chicken. Many staff members were told by doctors that they needed to eat
meat and fish and chicken, and did (do) so in the ashram.
One does not stay healthy on the staff of that ashram - the combination of
ashram food and having to constantly eat shit from GM makes for a poor diet.
sou...@my-dejanews.com
obsessed with every aspect of it and with great delusion of ego have taken it
upon yourself to attempt to interfer with the karma of others. Not a good
thing.
Your quote from Lincoln is incomplete: "As I would not be a slave, so I
would not be a master. This expresses my idea of democracy. Whatever
differs from this to the extent of the difference is no democracy." (August
1, 1858) Never heard anyone claim that SYDA is a democracy!
Here's another: "It is said an Eastern monarch once charged his wise men to
invent him a sentence, to be ever in view, and which should be true and
appropriate in all times and situations. They presented him the words: 'And
this, too, shall pass away'. How much it expresses! How chastening in the
hour of pride! How consoling in the depths of affliction!" (September 30,
1859)
And one more: "I can never be satisfied with anyone who would be blockhead
enough to have me." (April 1, 1838)
> ***************
> Sha...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw)
> http://members.aol.com/shawdan/page1.htm
> "It has been my experience that folks with no vices have few virtues." --
> Abraham Lincoln
> "As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." -- Abraham Lincoln
>
-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
Rand...@my-dejanews.com
> [You] have taken it upon yourself to attempt to interfer with the karma of
> others. Not a good thing.
But *you*, sought, have taken it upon yourself to attempt to interfere with
the karma of others by posting to the newsgroup! If you think affecting
other's karma is not a good thing, then you must lock yourself in your room &
never step out. Well, OK, you can sneak out at night, but make sure that no
one sees you or talks to you... if they do, you might God forbid interfere
with their karma.
Jeez.
Stuart
sres...@slip.net
http://www.slip.net/~sresnick/mypage.shtml
Arjun...@my-dejanews.com
> I was on staff in SY for 12 years. The diet
wasn't adequate. Many staff
> members (not I) were out blowing their pay on beer, tuna sandwiches and Kentucy
> Fried chicken. Many staff members were told by doctors that they needed to eat
> meat and fish and chicken, and did (do) so in the ashram.
Dan,
If I want to get cut I go to a surgeon.
Doctor as a whole are in worse shape than
the general population. They have
minimal training in nutrition.
If I want to eat meat I go to a doctor whos
NOT a vegetarian.
Perhaps it would have been better to blow
their pay on tofu burgers. They just wanted
to eat KF chicken and drink beer.Which is
ok if that's the way you want to go
Improper diet does contribute to erratic
behavior and exhaustion i.e burnout.
I've been a vegetarian for aprox 28yrs. I was
sick and imbalanced in the beginning from
JUNK food. When I cleaned up my diet
there was no longer a problem. I think one
of the reasons we have an imbalanced
society is because of all the fast food shit
they eat. Stop giving kids sugar and
chemicals and they won't be hyperactive.
I still think you guys are pushing it a bit on
this one.
Respectfully
A.U.
Saty...@my-dejanews.com
As someone who knew you in NY, SF and on tour, and from "Dissent" to Dan, I'm
proud of you too <g>
Great post and like (I believe it was) Violet used to say...thanks for being
here.
Regards, Satyajit
Hrdtired
<< I must say, at this point in my
life, I would never spend much time at an Indian restaurant if it was
lorded over constantly by an imperious, unpleasant little Lebanese owner.
Nor would I be in a hurry to put on a suit and sit on the floor listening
to effeminate swamis for a whole weekend as a special treat, nor to pay
$500 for the privilege.>>
You make so many good points in your posts. Why nullify them by resorting to
racial/sexuality slams like these? Quite unnecessary. You-know-who is not
unpleasant and imperious as a result of being born Lebanese, nor are SYDA
evening programs bogus on the basis of you're finding some of the swamis
"effeminate." Let's deal with the real issues, please.
-- The Tired Heart
Shawdan
writes:
>I still think you guys are pushing it a bit on
>this one.
>Respectfully
>A.U.
I hear your point and I think you're right to an extent. But it is also true
that some of the staff who were ill all the time were told by herbalists and
healers and vegetarian ayurvedics, etc., that they should eat chicken or fish
or meat. Even Ramakrishna was told to eat fish by his doctors, and did. Sure,
I believe some folks do wonderfully well on vegetarian diets - but in the
ashram, where being on staff meant constant workaholic stress and hysteria, it
got pretty hard to feel healthy.
Saty...@my-dejanews.com
>
> I mean East Indian culture is a flavor unmatched in all the world,
> and I gravitate towards it when I can. I must say, at this point in my
> life, I would never spend much time at an Indian restaurant if it was
> lorded over constantly by an imperious, unpleasant little Lebanese owner.
> Nor would I be in a hurry to put on a suit and sit on the floor listening
> to effeminate swamis for a whole weekend as a special treat, nor to pay
> $500 for the privilege.
"...unpleasant little Lebanese owner." I assume that this was a dig at G.Afif
and not a slur?
Just checking, Satyajit
PattyV1953
ashram, where being on staff meant constant workaholic stress and hysteria, it
got pretty hard to feel healthy.<
Dan, I think this is the point. The issue of the vegetarian diet is a
distracting. It was the stress of the place combined with little sleep and,
sometimes, an inadequate diet born of not having the *time* to eat decent
meals that made people sick. How many times did people just not have the time
to get to the dining hall for a substantial meal, in the push to get to their
seva, or after being hustled into the dishroom, and have to settle for what
little their money would buy in Amrit?
Pat
PattyV1953
billy...@aol.com (BillyG1993) writes:
>Besides the religious/cultural reasons, a very important reason for finding
>vegetarianism in a lot organizations where people get together (Hindu,
>Christian, other) IMO is because it is lowers the risk of causing food
>poisoning caused by improperly handling food.
While I agree with everything you say on vegetarianism, Billy, somehow, I don't
think ease of handling is as much a factor in these situations as the fact that
a vegetarian diet can be lighter and not take as much time or energy to digest.
Pat