bad company

[hap...@supernews.com]

Thank you. Thank you for kicking me back to reality.

Reality is not here on this newsgroup. This newsgroup is by and large a hate
group.

There have been a few people who went out of their way to be nice to me, and
I will name them now, and I wish to thank them. Hrdy, and Dorothy. And
Jyoti. And Narada, even, who said some things on my behalf and in my
support.

Maybe one or two others were ok for a bit.
But they all eventually bought into the Dan thing or the Bhaskar argument.

Everyone who was not for me was against me. And everyone who was not for me
was against not just me, but a sense of goodness and righteousness. For I
just came here to make some friends and try to heal.

But you know what I learned here? That I do not belong to a group of hateful
and spiteful people, which, believe me, you really are. I have never met
such a group of spiteful people in my life.

That I even wasted any time trying to convince MYSELF that you were nice, or
worth spending time with, was a mistake. You chased away every person who
did not believe your own lies.

Whatever happened to you did not happen at the ashram. It happened in your
own heads. I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
chanting and meditating.

In a strange way, your arrogance and meanness has taken me back into SY. I
am always welcomed there. I have always been welcomed there, and I will
always be welcome there.

Dan: Now that you are in the so called real world, and a psycho therapist
wanna be, you will have the prime opportunity to screw up your patient's
lives, without either of you knowing it. You are clearly unfit to be any
type of therapist - except to the others here on the newsgroup.

I don't want to get too bitter. YOu already think I am Bhaskar, so I might
as well act as Bhaskar would.

For a while people were congenial, until they concocted the idea that
everyone who does not hate SY is Bhaskar. Billy came along, and added fuel
to the fire; you all kiss his ass as he guzzles his beers and posts from an
inebriated state.

I will be happier in SY now that I know the type of people who left it. My
posts on forgiveness were too much for you. It made you absolutely think
that only a crazy Bhaskar could be forgiving and support forgiveness of all
these alleged abuses, which, by the way, even now are totally without base,
unproved, and as unreal as they were in the beginning.

I got post after post, email after email, of people trying to convince me to
admit that there were abuses, while the absolutely ironic thing is that I
have never, ever, ever been abused in SY, and I never ever saw abuse in SY,
but I was on the other hand repeatedly abused here on the newsgroup by many
at once! How blind you are.

I may post or I may not. But now that I don't fit in here, and now that you
have convinced yourselves that I am Bhaskar, I will not make the effort to
fit in here any longer. You truly are not worth it, you truly have been too
much work.

I'm just a person in this world trying to work out my personal issues, and
have been trying very hard lately to make sense out of things, but I learned
here that I must do this myself and obviously can't rely on people who are
filled with distrust and anger and hatred.

It felt right being away from the Center for a while, I did need a break,
that's for sure. But not because of any abuse, just because I needed a
break. Now I feel like going back, and you know what? YOU helped me make
that decision. I will experience the bliss of group chanting and meditation
again, the bliss of the exalted energy of the programs, and the bliss of SY
in general.

THanks to you.

While you all sit in front of your screens forever and discuss how much you
hate this, that, and the other, how right you were, and how wrong they were.
You will discuss these things until you become them. YOu will discuss the
allegations until you imbibe them, absorb them, and start creating and
expressing them in your own lives, believe me. You do create anything you
focus on enough, and since that is what you focus on, you will create them.

I'm going back to chanting and meditating, and instead of spending my time
here, I'll channel it in a postive manner. I think many of you spend many,
many hours a day stuck here. It started happening to me, to be honest, and
I'm glad I began to see this and now I'll be conscious of it.

Hey, you're not bad people, I don't think.
Some were very civil. Even nice, cordial,

But Dan and Stranger took the lead, you followed them, and they took you in a
direction of meanness. Unfortunately, most of you followed. Hrdy, Dorothy,
and one or two others went out of their way to support me and be nice. But
you can't change the nature of the scorpion, and soon enough everyone was
following Dan and Stranger's FEARS and SUSPICIONS, instead of accepting
another person with their hearts.

Sour grapes? Only to the extent that you let me down, that you lumped me
into a non existent group of others, and that you couldn't accept me for who
I am.

I am sorry that I got weak for a while and started thinking like you, and
that I started saying things which were not polite either to SY or the Guru
or even to you. My nature is to be very sensitive and caring to others
feelings. But being around here, I started getting sarcastic, and even
started to find fault with the guru and SY. I apologize to the guru for
this, and I apologize to myself. I even apologize for just not being silent
instead of trying to persuade someone of my very identity.

It's peer pressure at the utmost, the way this ng is set up. If you aren't
in with the in crowd, if you don't act like the in crowd, if you don't hate
the guru and SY, you are out completely. It's true, really. Take a look at
it here. It's really a completely political group, based on negative ideals:
putting down the past, putting down the Guru. What Bhaskar said is very, very
true. I do indeed sound like him now. Because it is true.

This group, under the guise of a supportive type group, really just supports
people's hatred. Well, not completely - there are other things going on here
- but mostly. But along with everyone's leaving SY, there is the inevitable
SY and Guru bashing. As if it's healthy to blame the guru for everything, or
SY, or something that allegedly occured twenty years ago, with no witnesses
or people to confirm this.

So the poster's feel they have a need to make fun of and criticize the past,
the guru, and SY, and blame it to death. As if this is healing. And as if
this is true freedom from the past. What it is is a similar type of
involvement, just at a lower level of consciousness.

At least when you were in SY you were steeped in the practices, in upward
moving shakti (except possibly for Dan who was fighting and arguing and
making others wrong there too a whole lot of the time, and participating in
the things that he condoned then but condems now).

So I hope you progress in your "healing" and figure out that healing is
letting go of the past, not hating it. Accepting it but not fighting it.
Experiencing it and letting it be. Even opening your heart to the past,
which is what was perfect at that time, if for no other reason, simply
because it was what was.

Now I feel like I have to overcome the nastiness and darkness of this group
and I hope it doesn't affect me in my life. I actually have to heal from
this group - the last thing I expected to have to do. I found myself
thinking about you tonight and I wondered how it was possible that such a
group of people find it so easy to condemn the guru, SY, and any poster who
does not agree with with them entirely. I don't want to - I choose not to -
live like that.

-----== Posted via Deja News, The Leader in Internet Discussion ==-----
http://www.dejanews.com/ Now offering spam-free web-based newsreading

[Violet1884]

Bye, Happily. Have a good life.

Violet

[Shawdan]

>Now I feel like I have to overcome the nastiness and darkness of this group
>and I hope it doesn't affect me in my life. I actually have to heal from
>this group - the last thing I expected to have to do. I found myself
>thinking about you tonight and I wondered how it was possible that such a
>group of people find it so easy to condemn the guru, SY, and any poster who
>does not agree with with them entirely. I don't want to - I choose not to -
>live like that.
>
>

Another farewell speech from Bhaskar. Unfortunately, I expect that he'll be
back, either back as Bhaskar, or Happily, or some new alias. Fortunately,
Bhaskar is no master of disguise, and it's unlikely he will come up with a
convincing new voice. Stay tuned!

IMO, Narada is just here for the ride. He's an internet troll with nothing
better to do, someone who has never even been in Siddha Yoga.

Bhaskar/Happily/Mary etc. is here to do one thing, and I don't think he can
stop himself, no matter how much his thinking is exposed as distorted.

He wants to try to convince the world that this newsgroup is a hate group, and
to persuade others that I am a dishonest and incompetent psychotherapist,
intent on controlling, exploiting and deceiving others, and that Siddha Yoga,
Baba and Gurumayi are innocent of the charges being made here.

I don't think you've succeeded, Bhaskar. Devotees already believe all of the
above, so maybe you convinced the faithful of what they already believed.

Or maybe you just made yourself a warning example to the faithful of the
dangers of fanaticism and obssession.

And maybe you convinced some devotees to open their minds, by modeling what
someone whose mind is turned off really looks like.

Bhaskar et al. simply follow the lead of their guru. Any and all critics of
Siddha Yoga are always attacked by Siddha Yoga leaders and devotees, not based
on a consideration and response to their criticism, but with an ad hominem
attack on the character and motives of the critics.

Siddha Yoga has never faced up to its abuses, it has only sought to shame,
silence or assassinate the character of its critics. I think that speaks
volumes about the SY group mentality. And about just how much it has to hide,
and how terrified, and humiliated, SY leaders are about the skeletons in their
closet.

So unfortunately, I don't think it's goodbye Bhaskar. As long as there is this
newsgroup, there will be Bhaskar or some alias or someone like him, is my
guess.

The beat goes on.
***************
Sha...@aol.com (Daniel Shaw)
http://members.aol.com/shawdan/page1.htm
"It has been my experience that folks with no vices have few virtues." --
Abraham Lincoln
"As I would not be a slave, so I would not be a master." -- Abraham Lincoln

[ByeSY]

So long Happily/Bhaskar/Bhaskari/Bhaskarji/Freedomm/Mary/Rich
Goldman/Bhaskarananda/Sybil........at least for now. Really, though, you ought
to give up your efforts here, because your true colors always show through
eventually. This simply is NOT the place to support sy and the guru, as is
clearly evident from the name of the ng.

[Hrdtired]

>>Thank you. Thank you for kicking me back to reality.

Reality is not here on this newsgroup. This newsgroup is by and large a hate
group.<<

Oh, dear.

>>Maybe one or two others were ok for a bit.
But they all eventually bought into the Dan thing or the Bhaskar argument.
Everyone who was not for me was against me.<<

Generalizations never work, are never convincing.

>>And everyone who was not for me
was against not just me, but a sense of goodness and righteousness.<<

Isn't that a little extreme.

>>For I
just came here to make some friends and try to heal.<<

That's what I thought too, for awhile, although I couldn't imagine why you
chose this particular place to heal when you were so adament that SY was a
beautiful path.

>>But you know what I learned here? That I do not belong to a group of hateful
and spiteful people, which, believe me, you really are. I have never met
such a group of spiteful people in my life.<<

You haven't hung out with the inner circle at SY then. Lucky you!

I can only speak for myself and the folks here who I know. I am not a hateful
and spiteful person, and neither are any of the posters here who I know IRL.
Sometimes we may go a little overboard when we get emotional about something.
That's normal. Personally, I don't believe in matrika shakti -- I don't think
words can poison me. So if there's something I don't like, I respond to it or
ignore it, but it's not going to change my life. You are overreacting.

>>That I even wasted any time trying to convince MYSELF that you were nice, or
worth spending time with, was a mistake. You chased away every person who
did not believe your own lies.<<

I "chase away" those who accuse me of being a liar. I don't go to devotee
areas and call those people liars. If I did they would be justified in chasing
me away.

>>Whatever happened to you did not happen at the ashram. It happened in
your
own heads.<<

Sorry you feel that way. Not my experience.

>>I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
chanting and meditating.<<

You sure do.

>>In a strange way, your arrogance and meanness has taken me back into SY. I
am always welcomed there. I have always been welcomed there, and I will
always be welcome there.<<

You never left SY, don't blame the NG for your mind control issues.

>>Dan: Now that you are in the so called real world, and a psycho therapist
wanna be, you will have the prime opportunity to screw up your patient's
lives, without either of you knowing it. You are clearly unfit to be any
type of therapist - except to the others here on the newsgroup.<<

Very, very yogic of you, Happily, real equanimitous. NOT!!!!!!!!!!!

>>I don't want to get too bitter. YOu already think I am Bhaskar, so I might
as well act as Bhaskar would.<<

You already are too bitter. Why would you act like Bhaskar just because
someone thinks you are Bhaskar...unless you really are Bhaskar.

>>For a while people were congenial, until they concocted the idea that
everyone who does not hate SY is Bhaskar. Billy came along, and added fuel
to the fire; you all kiss his ass as he guzzles his beers and posts from an
inebriated state.<<

I don't see anyone (and certainly not "everyone" as you keep saying) kissing
anyone's ass. I see people saying they liked the posts they liked. So what?

>>I will be happier in SY now that I know the type of people who left it.<<

Be careful, you might get close to other people who will leave. Then you'll
have to trash them too.

>>My
posts on forgiveness were too much for you. It made you absolutely think
that only a crazy Bhaskar could be forgiving and support forgiveness of all
these alleged abuses, which, by the way, even now are totally without base,
unproved, and as unreal as they were in the beginning.<<

Don't get me started on the real and unreal....

>>I got post after post, email after email, of people trying to convince me to
admit that there were abuses, while the absolutely ironic thing is that I
have never, ever, ever been abused in SY, and I never ever saw abuse in SY,
but I was on the other hand repeatedly abused here on the newsgroup by many
at once! How blind you are.<<

How in denial YOU are.

>>I may post or I may not. But now that I don't fit in here, and now that you
have convinced yourselves that I am Bhaskar, I will not make the effort to
fit in here any longer. You truly are not worth it, you truly have been too
much work.<<

No one told you to work at anything. I agree, it's not worth it to work at
trying to change anyone's mind. I never try to change devotees' minds. I don't
care about what you believe in. I care why you want to proclaim your belief
here.

>>I'm just a person in this world trying to work out my personal issues, and
have been trying very hard lately to make sense out of things, but I learned
here that I must do this myself and obviously can't rely on people who are
filled with distrust and anger and hatred.<<

No one asked you, as a devotee, to rely on anyone here.
Again, the name of the ng: ALT.SUPPORT.EX-CULT.SIDDHA-YOGA.

>>It felt right being away from the Center for a while, I did need a break,
that's for sure. But not because of any abuse, just because I needed a
break. Now I feel like going back, and you know what? YOU helped me make
that decision. I will experience the bliss of group chanting and meditation
again, the bliss of the exalted energy of the programs, and the bliss of SY
in general.<<

I'm happy for you. Enjoy. Knock yourself out.

>>While you all sit in front of your screens forever and discuss how much you
hate this, that, and the other, how right you were, and how wrong they were.
You will discuss these things until you become them. YOu will discuss the
allegations until you imbibe them, absorb them, and start creating and
expressing them in your own lives, believe me. You do create anything you
focus on enough, and since that is what you focus on, you will create them.<<

Spare me the bogus SY teachigns.

>>I'm going back to chanting and meditating, and instead of spending my time
here, I'll channel it in a postive manner. I think many of you spend many,
many hours a day stuck here. It started happening to me, to be honest, and
I'm glad I began to see this and now I'll be conscious of it.<<

Congratulations.

>>Hey, you're not bad people, I don't think.
Some were very civil. Even nice, cordial,<<

Oh great, I feel better now.

>>But Dan and Stranger took the lead, you followed them, and they took you in a
direction of meanness. Unfortunately, most of you followed. Hrdy, Dorothy,
and one or two others went out of their way to support me and be nice. But
you can't change the nature of the scorpion, and soon enough everyone was
following Dan and Stranger's FEARS and SUSPICIONS, instead of accepting
another person with their hearts.<<

So you're saying that the scorpions Dan and Stranger bit me and I became
poisoned? No, I didn't change, Hap. The nature of your posts changed. And what
you and I exchanged in emails bore little or no resemblance to what you were
saying on the boards. I still hope that this side of you, the one I came to
know off the boards, is your "true" nature. If not, it's just another
betrayal, and I have had enough of SY-style betrayal.

>>Sour grapes? Only to the extent that you let me down, that you lumped me
into a non existent group of others, and that you couldn't accept me for who
I am.<<

I feel like you let ME down. You never stuck to your original position, but
chimed right in with the "you people with your negativities, it's not MY
experience" stuff. I thought you were going to take the higher road, though I
never quite understood why you were trying to work out your economic issues
here. I can only conclude that you had another agenda...to sucker people in
with kindness, and then attack, Bhaskar-style, once you had engaged them and
gotten the support of some board members.

I was a sucker. You are good.

>>I am sorry that I got weak for a while and started thinking like you, and
that I started saying things which were not polite either to SY or the Guru
or even to you. My nature is to be very sensitive and caring to others
feelings. But being around here, I started getting sarcastic, and even
started to find fault with the guru and SY. I apologize to the guru for
this, and I apologize to myself. I even apologize for just not being silent
instead of trying to persuade someone of my very identity.<<

If it were not in your nature to be sarcastic and fault-finding, a newsgroup
couldn't make you that way. You assign way too much power to a few words on a
computer screen. The "bad company" argument just doesn't hold water with an
online environment. This is hardly a "community." But hang out with Gurumayi
long enough and you will start sounding like her, mean and nasty and trashing
people at their very foundation. Like Bhaskar does. Like you're starting to
do in this post.

>>It's peer pressure at the utmost, the way this ng is set up. If you aren't
in with the in crowd, if you don't act like the in crowd, if you don't hate
the guru and SY, you are out completely. It's true, really. Take a look at
it here. It's really a completely political group, based on negative ideals:
putting down the past, putting down the Guru. What Bhaskar said is very, very

true. I do indeed sound like him now. Because it is true....This group, under

the guise of a supportive type group, really just supports
people's hatred. Well, not completely - there are other things going on here
- but mostly. But along with everyone's leaving SY, there is the inevitable
SY and Guru bashing. As if it's healthy to blame the guru for everything, or
SY, or something that allegedly occured twenty years ago, with no witnesses
or people to confirm this.<<

That is a complete distortion and (wrong) generalization of what the group does
and stands for, and you know it.

>>So the poster's feel they have a need to make fun of and criticize the past,
the guru, and SY, and blame it to death. As if this is healing. And as if
this is true freedom from the past. What it is is a similar type of
involvement, just at a lower level of consciousness.<<

Similar to what? To being in SY? So are you criticizing involvement in SY then?
HUH????

>>At least when you were in SY you were steeped in the practices, in upward
moving shakti (except possibly for Dan who was fighting and arguing and
making others wrong there too a whole lot of the time, and participating in
the things that he condoned then but condems now).<<

Sorry Happily, but this is soooo Bhaskarian. If you wonder why people think
you are Bhaskar, reread this post and go back and read some of Bhaskar's. The
wording is nearly identical.

>>So I hope you progress in your "healing" and figure out that healing is
letting go of the past, not hating it. Accepting it but not fighting it.
Experiencing it and letting it be. Even opening your heart to the past,
which is what was perfect at that time, if for no other reason, simply
because it was what was.<<

First, the hurts of the past have to be processed. Anyone who is finished with
that process would naturally not need to come here, unless they wished to offer
support to those still in the process. "Just let it go" = denial. Blanket
forgiveness a bandaid. It's not healing. Get real. Very few people (including
your guru, who stalked and harassed and publicly trashed her own brother for 7
years) can be instantly forgiving. It's a saintly quality. We're not saints.
Neither are you, as much as you would like to have us believe how wonderful you
are at the core.

>>Now I feel like I have to overcome the nastiness and darkness of this group
and I hope it doesn't affect me in my life. I actually have to heal from
this group - the last thing I expected to have to do. I found myself
thinking about you tonight and I wondered how it was possible that such a
group of people find it so easy to condemn the guru, SY, and any poster who
does not agree with with them entirely. I don't want to - I choose not to -
live like that.<<

"Now I have to heal from this group." Hey, did anyone hold a gun to your head
and make you come to this group? If you felt hurt, why did you stay? Unlike
SYDA, this is not a mind-control cult, it's only a bulletin board. You can
choose to read it and post here...or not.

If you're going to continue in this annoying, obnoxious vein, I hope the choice
is, "not."

Buh-bye.

-- The Tired Heart

[S235108]

Happily says:
" I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
chanting and meditating."

Happily, this is an extreme reaction. Don't lose your common sense over this.
Surely there are other choices than either here on this newsgroup OR back in
the fog of mind control, denials, history rewrites and the 'bliss' of blind
obedience. Please question the Siddha Yoga "spin" on everything at least as
critically as you seem to have done with things you read here. Good luck to
you. You DO need to heal from your SY years, wherever you choose to hang out.
Do you REALLY buy the stuff about Gurumayi's "perfection?"
******************S235108***********************
“Why would even the most realized of beings want people to become
reliant on his wisdom instead of their own?” GURU PAPERS

[Shawdan]

In article <199806061828...@ladder03.news.aol.com>, s23...@aol.com
(S235108) writes:

>Happily says:
>" I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
>belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
>chanting and meditating."
>
>Happily, this is an extreme reaction. Don't lose your common sense over this.
>Surely there are other choices than either here on this newsgroup OR back in
>the fog of mind control, denials, history rewrites and the 'bliss' of blind
>obedience. Please question the Siddha Yoga "spin" on everything at least as
>critically as you seem to have done with things you read here. Good luck to
>you. You DO need to heal from your SY years, wherever you choose to hang out.
>Do you REALLY buy the stuff about Gurumayi's "perfection?"

S, just one man's opinion here, but I think that H (aka B) has been planning
this "return to SY" all along. because he never left. I think he wanted to
appear to be someone who had left, was looking for comfort here, and who then
came to this NG and found all kinds of mean terrible monsters who attacked him
and sent him back to the ashram.

I think it's a transparent and lame effort to discredit the NG, and all of B's
aliases (Mary, Freedomm, the different Bhaskars, Happily, Rich Goldman, etc etc
etc, are the same person creating the same scenario:

1) I come here for support because I have some doubts, even though I don't know
of any abuses ever happening in SY and I can't really believe they did happen,
maybe it's just people's interpretation

2) I ask everyone a lot of questions and get them to open up about themselves
in various ways, but I particularly focus on Dan and seek to discredit him as
much as possible

3) I then eventually decide that you are all hate mongers, you make false
claims about abuse, you weren't abused, you were just selfish and doing sadhana
the wrong way for the wrong reasons

3) I leave and return to SY

It's the same scenario, clumsily acted out, again and again with B and his
friends.

Warning: watch for the first 2 or 3 above points, and plan to see the next
ones soon.

[Dorothy Drennen]

Good luck working things out -- I hope you find some steadiness in your finances
as well as your spiritual issues. I absolutely agree that this ng is not the
right place for you... although not, of course, for any of the reasons you state.

I do wish you peace, in any case.

Dorothy

hap...@supernews.com wrote:

> Thank you. Thank you for kicking me back to reality.
>

> <snip>

[sres...@slip.net]

There was a wonderful scene in "The Karate Kid" where the karate guru asks
his disciple whether he's ready to begin learning, & the kid says, "I guess
so." The teacher doesn't accept that answer. "Either you do karate YES," he
says, "or you do karate NO. Not 'guess so.'"

Or as the great Jim Hightower says: Nothing in the middle of the road but the
yellow line & dead armadillos.

My only point in saying this...

hap...@supernews.com wrote:
> I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
> belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
> chanting and meditating.

If you really believe this & devote yourself 100% to your chanting &
meditating, ignoring issues posed by this newsgroup or elsewhere, OK. You
wanted to make a parting shot to let everyone know that you're superior to
"this group"... so now you've done so. Finished.

However, to say that this is "bad company" and then *continue* to post here
is simply hypocrisy. To participate in the group yet claim to have better
things to do is dishonest.

> If a poster comes here and speaks of forgiveness, love, acceptance, making
> amends - he or she is thrown off the ng.

Mistake. No one is or can be "thrown off the ng."

If you truly were not interested in discussing the abuses in SY, you could
have done so. You could have said, "I don't know anything about these claims,
& I won't talk about them. I do want to talk about [this or that issue]
regarding spirituality in general [etc]." Period. If you're not interested in
addressing possible bad actions by the gurus, then no one in the world can
reach through cyberspace & force you to do so.

If you have some logical reason to questions someone's claim, OK. If, without
any logic, you just call whoever makes the claim a liar (e.g. accusing Ms
Harris of "yellow journali> <input type=

[stran...@my-dejanews.com]

Happily ends with: >>>>I am sorry that I got weak for a while and

started thinking like you, and
that I started saying things which were not polite either to SY or the
Guru
or even to you. My nature is to be very sensitive and caring to others
feelings. But being around here, I started getting sarcastic, and even
started to find fault with the guru and SY. I apologize to the guru for
this, and I apologize to myself. I even apologize for just not being
silent
instead of trying to persuade someone of my very identity.<<<<

Dear Happily,
Hasn't one of your primary points been that everyone on this newsgroup
is responsible for his/her own experiences in sy? May I remind you that
sy is a large organization with in-person public programs, a guru who
claims to be fully in charge of the shakti for each and every devotee
with an awakened kundalini, and numerous courses and events which
include a type of interaction that by most standards could be
interpreted as mind control?
This newsgroup is a discussion group with typed letters arranged as
words that can be read or not read. No one here claims to be a guru. No
one has any more power than anyone else. There is indeed a stated
purpose, which I believe has been called to your attention numerous
times (in vain).
If you cannot accept that someone in sy could fall prey to "guru
pressure" within a huge organization, how can you possibly make the
above argument, crediting this newsgroup with your behavior? You
previously discredited an article in a reputable magazine as "yellow
journalism" without blinking an eye. You lent NO credibility to the
arguments, carefully researched and backed up, yet a newsgroup is
capable of causing you to become sarcastic and insult the guru.
You are correct to surmise that you belong in sy. This type of blame
when it's someone else's problem and cries of "unfair" when it's yours
fit in very well with sy's public stance. If a devotee has something
happen, regardless of how horrible, it is "karma" and "everything
happens for the best", twisted into a repugnant form of blame. If,
however, something is directed back to the organization, no matter how
small, it is NEVER seen as karma or "the best". This incongruency should
appeal to you, based on your inability to see your own behavior in the
light of judgement you so liberally dispense to other posters here.
See you in your next guise. It must be my bad karma.

StrangerWP

[sres...@slip.net]

There was a wonderful scene in "The Karate Kid" where the karate guru asks
his disciple whether he's ready to begin learning, & the kid says, "I guess
so." The teacher doesn't accept that answer. "Either you do karate YES," he
says, "or you do karate NO. Not 'guess so.'"

Or as the great Jim Hightower says: Nothing in the middle of the road but the
yellow line & dead armadillos.

My only point in saying this...

hap...@supernews.com wrote:
> I'm glad I do not fit in here with you. I belong in the ashram, I
> belong in good company, I belong in the center, and I belong in satsang,
> chanting and meditating.

If you really believe this & devote yourself 100% to your chanting &

meditating, ignoring issues posed by this newsgroup or elsewhere, OK. You
wanted to make a parting shot to let everyone know that you're superior to
"this group"... so now you've done so. Finished.

However, to say that this is "bad company" and then *continue* to post here
is simply hypocrisy. To participate in the group yet claim to have better
things to do is dishonest.

> If a poster comes here and speaks of forgiveness, love, acceptance, making
> amends - he or she is thrown off the ng.

Mistake. No one is or can be "thrown off the ng."

If you truly were not interested in discussing the abuses in SY, you could
have done so. You could have said, "I don't know anything about these claims,
& I won't talk about them. I do want to talk about [this or that issue]

regarding spirituality in general [etc]." If you're not interested in

addressing possible bad actions by the gurus, then no one in the world can
reach through cyberspace & force you to do so.

If you have some logical reason to questions someone's claim, OK. If, without
any logic, you just call whoever makes the claim a liar (e.g. accusing Ms

Harris of "yellow journalism"> <input type=

[megha...@hotmail.com]

How rude!

I take the time to write long posts to engage with happily, and he doesn't
even mention me by name. Sigh, I guess it was a waste of time.

I was nice to him when he first came aboard and I was honest and direct when
he was flaming/getting flamed. It seems as though he took an honest challenge
as the same as denunciation. I guess you had to be overtly sweet to count as
one of the ones who gave him a chance. Too bad. A very limited
understanding, as they say in $Y.

I don't regret it because if there was any chance that he was for real, just
confused, it would have been worth it. But his exit post putting the
newsgroup down really confirmed a lot, didn't it?

Interesting experience, though.

Megha

[Hrdtired]

>>I don't regret it because if there was any chance that he was for real, just
confused, it would have been worth it. But his exit post putting the
newsgroup down really confirmed a lot, didn't it?

Interesting experience, though.

Megha<<

Yeah, and that which does not kill you (as the trolls would love to see
happen!) makes you stronger.

Newsgroup Maharaj ki Jay!

-- The Tired Heart

[hap...@supernews.com]

In article <6lgt40$v2u$1...@nnrp1.dejanews.com>,

megha...@hotmail.com wrote:
>
>
> How rude!
>
> I take the time to write long posts to engage with happily, and he doesn't
> even mention me by name. Sigh, I guess it was a waste of time.
>
> I was nice to him when he first came aboard and I was honest and direct when
> he was flaming/getting flamed. It seems as though he took an honest challenge
> as the same as denunciation. I guess you had to be overtly sweet to count as
> one of the ones who gave him a chance. Too bad. A very limited
> understanding, as they say in $Y.
>

> I don't regret it because if there was any chance that he was for real, just
> confused, it would have been worth it. But his exit post putting the
> newsgroup down really confirmed a lot, didn't it?
>
> Interesting experience, though.
>
> Megha
>
>

Dear Megha,

I apologize for not thanking you for communicating with me in a normal manner.
This is, however, what people on ng's do:
they communicate, not ex-communicate. It is the normal thing.

Maybe you haven't noticed, but you are commiserating with a group of truly
mean individuals. Not everyone. A few went out of their way to be nice to
me, such as Hrdy and Dorothy. I did thank them. You also, now that you
mention it, did have the independence and courage to communicate with me.
Thank you very much, although, as I said above, this is the normal thing to
do when it comes to ng's.

The others make it hard and apply all kinds of subtle and not-so-subtle
pressure to exclude someone for their non-conformist beliefs. The poster and
anyone who supports the poster (in this case you and the others mentioned)
are subjected to this.

Hey, I left in a huff, but I wanted to thank you and respond to your email.

Maybe I'll have some things to say here and there, but spending too much time
in this space is destructive to anyone who has love in their heart. Trust
your instincts when you see them going off on anyone who speaks in a positive
manner. It's easy to get pulled into their negative flow.

[JKnepp4350]

Happily says

>
>Everyone who was not for me was against me. And everyone who was not for me
>was against not just me, but a sense of goodness and righteousness.

I'm sure, like everyone else on the planet, you really are full of goodness and
righteousness. I'm equally sure that, just like the rest of us, you are full
of a whole lot more. Do you believe all that stuff sm said about the world
being a play of consciousness? I do. When people already know the end of the
story (the ng is full of hate and participants have "hearts of darkness,") they
make sure the script ends up just the way it did with you (those evil s.o.b.s!
I'm outta here!). I look at this ng as a sort of primitive jazz or wierd
spoken-word theater. Just like a band, it's not really about any single,
individual player. It's a group deal with everyone improvising as they go
along. The way I see it, you joined this band, practised for a long time,
decided the music wasn't for you and moved on. That's different from saying
the ng is the enemy of music. Why slime your fellow players on your way out?

God-mad Accordionist

[sres...@slip.net]

hap...@supernews.com wrote:
> Hey, I left in a huff, but I wanted to thank you and respond to your email.

A technical point:

You *didn't* leave in a huff. You've *stayed* in a huff.

Stuart, Master of the Obvious
sres...@slip.net
http://www.slip.net/~sresnick/mypage.shtml

[hap...@supernews.com]

In article <199806091458...@ladder01.news.aol.com>,
jknep...@aol.com (JKnepp4350) wrote:
>
> Happily says

> >
> >Everyone who was not for me was against me. And everyone who was not for me
> >was against not just me, but a sense of goodness and righteousness.
>

> I'm sure, like everyone else on the planet, you really are full of goodness and
> righteousness. I'm equally sure that, just like the rest of us, you are full
> of a whole lot more. Do you believe all that stuff sm said about the world
> being a play of consciousness? I do. When people already know the end of the
> story (the ng is full of hate and participants have "hearts of darkness,") they
> make sure the script ends up just the way it did with you (those evil s.o.b.s!
> I'm outta here!). I look at this ng as a sort of primitive jazz or wierd
> spoken-word theater. Just like a band, it's not really about any single,
> individual player. It's a group deal with everyone improvising as they go
> along. The way I see it, you joined this band, practised for a long time,
> decided the music wasn't for you and moved on. That's different from saying
> the ng is the enemy of music. Why slime your fellow players on your way out?
>
> God-mad Accordionist
>

Dear God Mad,

Surely you have seen most or many of the posters - the majority of them at
least - take issue with most of what I said, and what I basically said was
that I was not against SY or mad at SY. I don't blame SY for my ingress or
egress. It is, was, totally my choice, whether I stayed or left. Most of
the others here absolutely could not tolerate this openness on my part and
critized, chastised and blamed me, attacked me, using the "Bhaskar" thing as
the reason.

Now, from your posts, I see you as someone with a heck of a lot more
compassion and understanding than most of the others, and I did not
necessarily mean to include you in the group. But I didn't notice you
standing up for my right to post here either, or helping me out for being at
the down side of obvious dictatorial discrimination on the parts of many.

Where were you then? Why do you just speak now? Why didn't you state that
you thought I had a right to post here when I needed some help, instead of
just jumping in now?

And, that you even agree with anything of SM is grounds for disbarment here.

Listen, I never said that I didn't have good and 'bad' qualities. My posts
here were for the most part very friendly and did not have a purpose to
flame. However, the flame-type responses of Dan, Stranger, Billy, Matrka,
ByeSy, to name a few, were anything but welcoming.

What I was referring to by the above quote related to my posts, and my posts
were friendly enough. Too friendly in fact. Though you and a few may be
excluded, there is obvious revenge, hatred, and denial of such an obvious
degree here by the many, that you couldn't in a million years convince me
that you don't see it or are not aware of it. Why? Because your posts show
too much integrity. Turn your back? Well, that's what the posters accused me
of doing at the ashram though I saw nothing.

Why not honestly tell me and the others what you think - did you not see the
behaviors I just described by the others? Did you see me try to hurt or
antagonize anyone here in the many posts I posted?

If you want to turn your back, go ahead. The sad thing is that it's right
here for everyone to see, though they wont admit it. But again, I know you
are a person of integrity; it would be impossible for you to deny it
honestly.

Thanks for your message.

They won't stand up to you because your posts are more in line with their
feelings against SY; they'll give you a bit of space to say a good thing
about it now and then.

[Andy Comanda]

hap...@supernews.com wrote:

> Dear God Mad,
>
> Surely you have seen most or many of the posters - the majority of them at
> least - take issue with most of what I said, and what I basically said was
> that I was not against SY or mad at SY.

Speaking for myself, what I was most pissed off about and still am
is/was your attacks on Dan. Not only did you attack him, you misstated
the facts. There is definitely a common thread that links you to
Bhaskar and Mary. It has nothing to do with whether you are against $Y
or not. That's your prerogative. You can believe what you like.
Exactly what reaction did you expect from a group of EX-CULT members
though? With your belief system you don't belong here, do you? You are
free to post and we are free to respond as we wish. You accuse us of
trying to control the group. Are we controlling each other? I would
say we are just expressing our agenda as EX-CULT members. It seems to
me that you as Happily or Bhaskar or Mary or whoever are attempting to
disrupt the stated agenda of the ng. If you still want to worship gm as
GOD than go back to the ashram. You're not going to get stroked here if
that is what you were looking for. I think you were given some
practical advice about your financial situation, so in that respect you
did get what you came here for. Once you started with your $Y
propaganda you got flamed. That's how it works. Take your cult
propaganda to the Dharma Cafe. They'll love it there.

And by the way, how come you're still hanging out? I thought you left.